Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
How about a 10 year old kid in the 5th grade from Arkansas who refuses to say the pledge of allegiance and got sick and tired of having a teacher push him to do so every day and "talked back" to her?
Their son told them last weekend he had decided to no longer stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance at school because he didn't believe there is liberty and justice for all, especially when it comes to gay rights."To say them (words) and not mean them would be a lie," Jay said.
Bravo, young man. Bravo.
This week their son says a substitute teacher prodded him every day to stand up and say the pledge after he had refused. He then says he got angry, and talked back. The Phillips said that they reprimanded him for that, but they don't want him to be pushed to do something he doesn't feel comfortable doing."We would like to have the school make sure the teachers know the kids do have the right to sit down and make their own choices, even if he is only 10 and in 5th grade," Laura said.
The teacher is the one who should be reprimanded. And then be given some homework: Read West Virginia v Barnette, the landmark ruling that includes this famous passage from the incredibly eloquent Justice Robert Jackson:
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
This kid just became my new hero.
Politics
Comments
Remarkable fortitude for one so young. I also applaud his parents for providing the environment that allowed him to grow.
As for the teacher, he/she needs some education but as a substitute, I don't expect too much. I'm actually glad it wasn't a regular teacher.
Posted by: MikeMa | October 16, 2009 9:32 AM
I really admire this boy's courage. When I was in high school, I stopped saying the pledge of allegiance (because of religious reasons, actually). I always chose to stand up out of respect, but I generally tried to not draw attention to the fact that I wasn't pledging. I'll admit that I was afraid of making a scene or getting in trouble. I wish I had had this boy's courage.
Posted by: catgirl | October 16, 2009 9:52 AM
It's funny how much it varies from one area of the country to the next. I went to school in upstate NY, in a suburb of a mid-sized city. By the time I got to high school, the student who did bother to say the Pledge was the oddball... I think most everybody stood, but even if you didn't nobody was likely to notice. The whole attitude towards it was fairly blase.
I guess that's why I never thought too deeply about the Pledge until I got older. I actually don't have a problem with the "liberty and justice for all" part, because (by my interpretation) it seems fairly clear that the second half is what America aspires to, not what it presently is. I mean, heh, you can't really call America "indivisible" post-1861, can you? But we can aspire to that ideal... The "under God" part is obviously bullshit, of course, and I was so not surprised to learn that it was inserted later for purposes of political grandstanding. It sickens me that it hasn't been removed.
But my biggest issues with the pledge is that it pledges allegiance to the flag, which seems to me rather asinine -- and worse yet, it pledges allegiance to the flag before the republic...?! I don't necessarily mind pledging allegiance to the republic, and listing some things to which the republic aspires. But allegiance to a flag
Hypothetical: In the year 2090, two political parties are running against each other. One is running on the platform of disbanding the country and reverting to fifty fully autonomous states, with no common government. The other party is running on a platform of replacing the flag with a completely different design. Which party would you prefer to see gain control, hmmm?
Posted by: James Sweet | October 16, 2009 10:01 AM
Apparently Will Phillip's family is Unitarian. Will also skipped a grade so was likely the youngest in the class.
Apparently the talking back was "With all due respect, you can go jump off a bridge" after the teacher told him his mother and grandmother would want him to say the pledge. Punishment was an apology to the teacher and a research assignment on the pledge.
Posted by: Erp | October 16, 2009 10:02 AM
come to europe- any swearing here is always profane!
from an english point of view I really cannot understand the strange objectivisation of patriotism in the US (Flags, swearing oaths etc.)
Here there is much more of a focus on the country as a whole and being part of something you are proud of- most people in the uk would see a burning Union flag and just think 'what a waste of good cloth'. indeed until the last decade or so the flag of st george (english flag) was a symbol of the far right, and has only recently been restored as a national symbol by the national football team.
I know this isn't exactly a hot bed of american nationalism but i'd love to know what your thoughts are on why this seems to be such an issue in the US
I know that this is the last place
Posted by: symball | October 16, 2009 10:05 AM
bah i cocked that up.
I know this is the last place to look for american nationalism but i'd appreciate your thoughts on why these rituals are so important to you.
Posted by: symball | October 16, 2009 10:07 AM
On the official videotape of my son's graduation, the shot pans across the stage during the pledge of allegiance. He is a class officer, as is his best friend, and their faces fill the screen just as everybody else says "under god". Not them. I was so proud.
But they were 18, and there were 2 of them. This kid is 10? Bravo, indeed.
Posted by: Anon | October 16, 2009 10:07 AM
"I'm sorry that you fail to understand the First Amendment and previous court precedent. Please accept my deepest apologies for interfering with your oppressive anti-American agenda."
"The Pledge of Allegiance was originally penned by a socialist by the name of Francis Bellamy. Later, it was turned into an implicit criticism of non-Christians as a bizarre side-effect of 1950s anti-Communist paranoia. The End."
Posted by: James Sweet | October 16, 2009 10:07 AM
Symball,
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union the United States remains as the one nation dedicated to a self-oriented ideology. The phrase "un-American" or the existence of a "House Un-American Activities Committee" can occur in the US but, to the best of my knowledge, we would be shocked to see a Canadian saying "that's un-Canadian" or an "Un-Dutch" committee. In the US there is little trouble pointing to ideologies of "Americanism" but as self-referential as the Irish are, there isn't a national ideology, there isn't an "Irishism" that acts as an enthymeme for whole bodies of "knowledge."
Dave
Posted by: David Worthington | October 16, 2009 10:20 AM
Has a case ever reached the federal courts that challenged the government leading the recitation of the pledge? Either on Establishment grounds given the abhorrent and false claim that we are "under God" when in fact the flag is a symbol of power delegated by "We the people" and not anyone's version of God. That or else in combination with the fact that such government-led exercises treats its citizens unequally for no compelling state interests, delegating some of us to less than first class status.
Obviously I too am in awe of this young man. However, my problem extends even further than his right to object in to what I think is the root cause where his objection is a mere symptom. I think its contrary to our founding ideals for the government to even initiate and lead such an effort which certainly violates my rights and millions of others; rights the government is obligated to defend, not violate.
Posted by: Michael Heath | October 16, 2009 10:27 AM
James,
I don't think it's even that regional necessarily as it is recent events. Since 9/11 thirty-five (or thirty-eight) states passed resolutions that required that the schools recite the pledge. That tells me that it was pretty bland and blase throughout much of the country before the knee-jerk reaction to the attacks.
----------
Symball
Much like your conservative party, or very right wing elements of England, there has always been a segment of American population who go for displays of overt patriotism. The "pledge" on the other hand, has other issues revolving around it. First, of course, is the 9/11 reaction that I mentioned earlier in my comment to James. IMO that has increased the number of people who really support the pledge and feel that overt (meaningless) displays of "patriotism" will somehow protect the country, etc. Second, you have that asinine phrase, "under God." Every year we talk about the pledge in my government/civics classes, every year I have conservatives who argue both, the patriotic argument and the religious one.
The religious argument is generally the most amusing because inevitably one of the religious advocates for the pledge will argue, "why don't they just not say 'under God,' it's no big deal." To which I ask them, "what if we removed 'under God' and those who are religious can choose to say it." To which they then prove to me that the "no big deal" is in fact, a big deal. The truly amusing part is that perhaps one out of four of them will realize, "wow, I'm full of crap." The non-religious part of the class, especially those who are neutral or anti-pledge, see it right away (easier to see when it isn't your POV), but the religious people tend to be oblivious to their hypocrisy.
So really, what we have is this:
Originally, core of ultra "patriotic" conservatives supported the pledge
+add+
Knee-jerk reaction to 9/11
+add+
Religious objection to any attempt to reduce the importance of "Under God" (they may or may not care about the rest of the pledge)
Posted by: dogmeatib | October 16, 2009 10:30 AM
From wikipedia
In the 2006 Florida case Frazier v. Alexandre, No. 05-81142 (S.D. Fla. May 31, 2006) "A federal district court in Florida has ruled that a 1942 state law requiring students to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance violates the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution, even though the law allows students to opt out, because they can only do so with written parental permission and are still required to stand during the recitation. Cameron Frazier, a student at Boynton Beach High School, was removed from a class after he refused to follow his teacher's instructions to recite the Pledge or stand during recitation."
Posted by: Matty | October 16, 2009 10:35 AM
@David Worthington: Considering that the Pledge long predates the 1950s, I don't think this fully answers symball's question -- though I agree it is a partial answer, just as dogmeatib's answer is a partial answer.
I thought about symball's question and I don't really have a fully-satisfying answer. One could probably write a freaking book about it...
Posted by: James Sweet | October 16, 2009 10:38 AM
What, no link to the kid's college scholarship fund?
Posted by: Don Doumakes | October 16, 2009 10:44 AM
That's a brave kid. When I took time a few weeks back to tell my seniors (the first class of the day, when the Pledge is said over the intercom) that they didn't have to say the Pledge, put their hand over their heart, or even stand, several students told me that they do it now mostly out of habit, since they were (according to their account) forced to stand and say the Pledge in grade school. I was floored at that - it's one thing for their to be social pressure, but I think it's awful to tell impressionable grade schoolers something like that. I'm not a big fan of the Pledge in general, but I've pretty much stopped doing anything (other than taking care of last minute logistical issues for my class) when the Pledge comes on because I don't even want to seem like I'm endorsing it.
Posted by: Mr. B | October 16, 2009 10:50 AM
I don't understand the religious arguments for saying the pledge. In fact, I stopped saying it in high school because I was pretty religious then. Pledging to a flag seemed a lot like worshiping an idol to me. I've always found it odd that the most religious people are the ones who are most adamant about pledging to a symbol, and not even a symbol of religion, but of a country. Some of the big court cases involving the pledge are actually based on this religious objection.
Posted by: catgirl | October 16, 2009 10:56 AM
Heh! West Fork, Arkansas had the best fried pies in the Galaxy back in 1967, and now they have a ballsy kid like that! Yay!
A little bit of Pledge history: until somewhere in the 30's, schoolkids put their hand on their heart to start the pledge, and then extended the right arm to point at the flag when they got to the word "flag." Herr Hitler's use of the same gesture ended that.....
Posted by: Coragyps | October 16, 2009 11:11 AM
James,
I didn't really talk about the pre-50s issues because they aren't really pertinent today except as an historical comparison. Initially the pledge was a completely local thing, I haven't seen much evidence that it was really even that common prior to WWII or at least had anywhere the support you see today.
WWII you had, like today with 9/11, a patriotic response. I would argue that the response at that time was not a phony knee-jerk one the way it is today, but it was still a response to an attack. In those first post war years I believe it likely would have faded, but then you have the beginning of the cold war which creates roughly the same mentality as you have today, vigilance in the event of an attack, a sinister faceless enemy ... COMMUNISM rather than TERRORISTS. Same sort of bogeyman argument, same general level of fear of the other. Then, as I recall in high school, and others have mentioned, in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, it really faded into a benign ritual rather than a heartfelt emotional display.
---------
Mr. B,
I get the same thing year in and year out. In the best cases, kids don't know any better, so they just go ahead and do it, in the worse case scenarios, you have kids like this one, who question things early and have an ill-informed and under-educated teacher who believes they not only have the right, but often the duty to force kids to stand, say the pledge, etc. Some states even have educational standards in the 2nd through 4th or 5th grade that require kids to correctly recite the pledge in order to advance to the next grade.
To be fair to the non-government teachers, education programs and school administrations rarely, if ever, cover the questions of student rights and limitations on what teachers can and cannot do. You then have the combination situation where the teacher doesn't know they can't force a kid to do something and the kid doesn't know which builds up the status quo of people's rights being infringed and overall indoctrination, which may also play a role in why the pledge is a bigger deal than it might be.
Posted by: dogmeatib | October 16, 2009 11:19 AM
It's a really bizarre one from my perspective. On the one hand the supporters argue that it is a benign generic call to a generic deity and therefore not really that religious at all and not a violation of the 1st amendment or the Lemon Test. On the other hand they scream bloody murder if you suggest that, if it isn't that big of a deal, etc., why not remove it?
I hate to say it, but pretty much just another example of reich wing ultra conservative religious hypocrisy.
Posted by: dogmeatib | October 16, 2009 11:24 AM
Interesting... I had sort of just assumed it took off in the late 1800s.
Wikipedia (yes, I know, but it is fairly reliable for certain types of information if you know how to vet the articles) states:
But this was apparently to commemorate the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, so maybe it was just a one-off.
The court case saying that children could be forced to say the pledge (Minersville School District v. Gobitis) was in 1940, so that pre-dated America's involvement in WWII. I'm not a WWII scholar by any means, so I don't know just exactly how jingoed-up the country was at that point... I know people were scared shitless of Japan and deeply concerned about the situation in Europe, but I am assuming you didn't really get the flood of patriotism until after Dec 1941...?
In addition, I think that symball's question extended beyond just the Pledge, and regarded more generally the fetishization of the flag and such. Once again, I don't know enough about American history to really say whether this predated popularization of the pledge and/or WWII... I had the impression it did, but there is so much revisionism about early America that it's very hard to discern the lies from the truth....?
Posted by: James Sweet | October 16, 2009 11:34 AM
Symball:
"Here there is much more of a focus on the country as a whole and being part of something you are proud of- most people in the uk would see a burning Union flag and just think 'what a waste of good cloth'."
Interesting. I have always imagined, given the insanely unwarranted status, money, prerogatives and attention lavished upon Mrs. Mountbatten and her family in the UK, that she would be the focus of patriotism in the UK (at least in large part), and not merely the country as a whole.
Posted by: Woody Tanaka | October 16, 2009 11:38 AM
A “Well Done” to the lad. Always distrust authority.
After the “under god” part was added to the Pledge, I always omitted those words.
I was never pledging allegiance to a bundle of cloth or to a country but to a set of ideals embodied in our founding documents.
America has been described as a”melting pot”, and it is. A melting pot of language, custom, and tradition melted and molded to the ideals expressed in that Pledge. The pledge is as symbolic as any religious icon and is a public statement of a private belief. Say the Pledge or not, suite yourself.
Standing by for brickbats and such.
Posted by: Yeti | October 16, 2009 11:39 AM
@dogmeatib: I did some further reading that claimed that some states enacted compulsory flag pledges during the Spanish-American War, and that several more did during WWI.
This conforms to your thesis that it's a wartime thing, of course...
Posted by: James Sweet | October 16, 2009 11:41 AM
Worthington: With all due respect, you don't know near what you think you do about the world outside the U.S. Fervent, fanatical nationalism not only continues to exist in Russia, despite the fall of the USSR, but it also exists in Denmark, Canada, Brazil, Wales; pretty much any state or region of a state you can name.
Mindless devotion to tribalism and tribal "essence" is not, and never has been, a distinctly American trait. If anything its presence in the U.S. is an aberration considering that ours is a civic-state, not a nation-state; a perfect example of how people can so easily confuse what they like with identity, history, and morality.
Posted by: Julian | October 16, 2009 11:53 AM
Great kid. Rock on, little guy!
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | October 16, 2009 12:03 PM
My story: I stopped saying "under god" about 6th grade, the entire pledge around 8th grade. In 8th, I would just sit while everyone else stood.
Next year in high school, when I sat during the pledge, my homeroom teacher took offence, made me stand in the front of the class and and say it. I omitted "under god" and tagged the end with "for liberty and justice for all who can afford it". (Thanks Jello B!) The whole class laughed, and a few people clapped.
I never had to say the pledge again. Years later, I was told my by 10th grade homeroom teacher that my 9th grade teacher told him about the pledge thing and advised him not to make me say the pledge.
Posted by: Seer | October 16, 2009 12:11 PM
@Julian: The question Worthington was addressing was from symball, and as I parsed it, it was not in regards to why America has "fervent, fanatical nationalism," but rather in regards to the mainstream fetishization of the flag. I think one would be hard-pressed to find another country with a Western-style government (i.e. democracy or social democracy or whatever, pretty much anything without a dictator) that has so many people who are so passionate about a symbol.
Maybe I am wrong though. I would be glad to hear that I was!
Posted by: James Sweet | October 16, 2009 12:14 PM
@21
> most people in the uk would see a burning Union flag and just
> think 'what a waste of good cloth'
True indeed. I always wondered about (some) American's - whether being that touchy about something indicates some kind of deep seated worry about its dependability.
> Interesting. I have always imagined, given the insanely
> unwarranted status, money, prerogatives and attention
> lavished upon Mrs. Mountbatten
That's Mrs Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg to you.
> and her family in the UK, that she would be the focus of
> patriotism in the UK
It's always going to depend on the person but in general:
* Brits aren't very patriotic (outside of football obviously)
* Our patriotism isn't centered around the Royal Family
Charles is though of so poorly that when (if) he ascends to the throne the anti-monarchist lobby (myself included) and likely to be so vocal that it might go directly to William (who is at least photogenic).
Posted by: David Durant | October 16, 2009 12:55 PM
Symball, I'd just read the Wikipedia page on the Pledge of Allegiance. It seems it started as a way to sell flags! America is big on making fetishes things so we can order more crap from China that has the imagery printed on it and then sell it.
When you throw in that the national anthem also happens to be about the flag, well, game over. Flag worshippers, us. Maybe the concept of a country was too tough for Americans, so a piece of cloth was a bit easier.
Posted by: cm | October 16, 2009 1:14 PM
My senior year in HS (1968 - Mass college town) our homeroom teacher said that state law required that we have an opportunity to say the pledge once a week, and therefore if anybody wanted to do it on Fridays he wouldn't object.
Posted by: snoey | October 16, 2009 1:15 PM
Why not open the school day with a rendition of Lee Greenwood's God Bless the USA? It would make Ed happy.
Posted by: kehrsam | October 16, 2009 1:28 PM
As a Brit, I have always found the idea of making kids say the Pledge of Allegiance every day to be extremely creepy -- and as others have said, it's more at home in totalitarian states like China and North Korea.
Mind you, as someone who had to attend a religious morning assembly every day, complete with a hymn and two prayers, every day of my public (as in non-private) school life, I'm really not the best person to be casting stones...
I do have one question though. In our morning assemblies there was a profound lack of enthusiasm on the part of the kids -- they just stood there and endured. Is that the same with American kids and saying the Pledge? Do they just mumble and mutter it? Has it become an empty gesture of no real import to the kids who have to say it?
Posted by: tacitus | October 16, 2009 2:03 PM
tacitus,
30 years ago we mumbled and acted like we hated it. Very little political or religious bent to our sullenness, just teen angst.
Even though the 'under god' had been added, it wasn't included in out pledge until after I graduated so I didn't get to skip them until much later.
Posted by: MikeMa | October 16, 2009 2:09 PM
My daughter and grand kids have had this fight before. My answer to the school officials was.. I never say it... why should she? Now if they could only wrap their befuddled minds around my grands being pagan.. all would be well.
Posted by: Lise | October 16, 2009 2:16 PM
@tacitus - my recollection (and I only graduated high school six years ago) is that it was an empty gesture of no real import. Shortly after 9/11 it became a daily thing (it was weekly for most of my time in grade school) - most of the teachers saw it as just another thing wasting minutes of class time that could be better used, and most of the students saw it as yet another thing you had to do because some adult decreed it.
Shortly after I graduated they added the Texas pledge as well (or so my younger brother told me).
Posted by: Patrick | October 16, 2009 2:57 PM
symball "I know this isn't exactly a hot bed of american nationalism but i'd love to know what your thoughts are on why this seems to be such an issue in the US"
I am also a foreigner, but "they" (they being the sub-group that fetishizes the flag) don't seem big on symbolism. Hence, it's not what the flag (or the Constitution, or the Bible…or Lincoln's cabin, of which there are several, none of which were his) symbolize, it's the thing itself. The object that symbolizes the ideal takes the place of the ideal itself, and becomes an idol.
David Worthington "we would be shocked to see a Canadian saying 'that's un-Canadian'"
"Un-Canadian" is a substitute for "rude", eh.
catgirl "Some of the big court cases involving the pledge are actually based on this religious objection."
Lies! All True Christians™ know that those people were really commie atheists! All True Christians™ know that America was founded on the Liberty to worship The Leader, Saint Reagan and later Saint Bush, and obey the State absolutely (unless the Dems are in charge); as individuals united as one mind against the nefarious "other".
Yeti "America has been described as a”melting pot”, and it is."
Hardly. It was only a "melting pot" until the Irish came, with their drinking and popery. Then it was cries of "They're stealin' our jobs!"
Posted by: Modusoperandi | October 16, 2009 4:04 PM
My kids now in 4th and 5th grade have never stood for the Pledge. And yes, early on we had these same problems with the school.
The state and district policy always has been that kids don't have to participate, but who knew? After 3 years of working with the district: teachers are informed of the policy, yearly; it is in the parent handbook; it is read to parents at back to school night; and the principal now starts the daily call to the pledge with "If you are going to say the Pledge, please stand. If you aren't going to you may stand or sit quietly." I like the idea of signs! It is very important to be clear about this, what with principal, teacher and peers acting as if participation were expected behavior as it is with every other school activity.
Now our kids have company in their seats during the Pledge for no other reason than the policy and choice is clear to everyone. These kids are heroes. Thank you all for recognizing it.
More on the Pledge at: http://members.cox.net/patriotismforall/
Posted by: Hifi | October 16, 2009 4:06 PM
So this is Will's mom. And we are totally gobsmacked that this is getting this much attention. We thought it would run in the local paper and that would be that. now about that college scholarship fund...
seriously, thank you for your support. I have read Will some of the comments, he says thank you too!
Laura Phillips
nursenimue@yahoo.com
Posted by: Laura Phillips | October 16, 2009 6:14 PM
Kind of OT, but did anyone else see the fundie home school mom and her kids reciting that weird, Christianist version of the pledge in "Jesus Camp"? Apparently, the Joe McCarthy anti-commie version we have now was too secular and godless for her.
And the jesus flags flying over the churches.
Creeped me out.
Posted by: Rick R | October 16, 2009 6:54 PM
I've always found the pledge of allegiance to be extremely offensive especially with that god nonsense. It also reeks of Stalinism and Nazism, parroting words with blind devotion; few who engage in that can rightfully call themselves patriots. I bet many of the traitors who have sold government secrets to corporations and foreign governments wave flags wildly and recite the pledge of allegiance religiously.
Posted by: MadScientist | October 16, 2009 7:24 PM
I looked up the wiki article on the Pledge, an I have to say, the picture of the kids doing the Bellamy Salute creeped me out a bit. I know it started before the Nazis adopted it, but still... *shudder*
I grew up in Iceland, and although we have laws against "improper" use of the flag (or the flag colours - the oh-so-unique blue, red and white), I'm not sure anyone has been prosecuted for dissin' da flag.
On the other hand, I, like symball, have always found the American-style flag worship a little puzzling. I did once 'desecrate' a flag (for a festival. We wrote the c-word on it. In orange neon), but doing that didn't bother me one bit. We've had musicians dressing up in flag-suits, and a handful of people thought that was disrespectful, but nothing came of it.
I'll admit you have a pretty cool flag. The colours are fairly standard (although I used to tell people that the red in ours stood for communism or the blood shed by the workers - I don't think that would work for Americans) but stars! Awesome. However, when I think about it, you never see other nations' citizens wearing so many ties, suits, hats, sunglasses, shoes (shoes, for fucks sake?), and tattoos with flag decals or designs. Patriotism is one thing, but I'd really like to know why so many Americans (and lets not even go there - you're not the only country in America) are so obsessed with the flag. Surely some psychologist somewhere has studied this!
Sorry for pretty much everything above.
Also, I've known the Pledge of Allegiance since I was a kid (thank you, American TV) and I've always felt that the 'under God' seemed a bit forced - wedged in there. I only learned that it was such a reent addition a couple of years ago.
Posted by: Tina St. Sebastian | October 16, 2009 10:14 PM
I must have attended an unusual school district, because we never said the Pledge where I went to school. And I don't mean that we all chose to sit down in silence while someone led the Pledge. Seriously, there was never any Pledge in any of my classes during middle school or high school. I vaguely remember doing it in my first grade class. But then in second grade we moved to a new school district and I never remember doing it ever again. Am I the only one?
Posted by: Bruce | October 16, 2009 10:46 PM
If you can stand it, here's the clip from "Jesus Camp"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZftFdqe8Mg
Posted by: Rick R | October 16, 2009 11:27 PM
James Clavell* wrote a nice little children's book about the Pledge of Allegiance. Read it to your kids as a bed-time story - DJ
---------------
*see http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4768522.James_Clavell_s_the_Children_s_Story_but_Not_Just_for_Children
Posted by: DingoJack | October 16, 2009 11:36 PM
I refused to say the pledge of allegiance when I was in the 4th grade at age 9. I said it was a violation of my first amendment right to freedom of--from-- religion. lol, I was suspended for my refusal and my mother beat the crap out of me. But I never did say it again.
Posted by: NomNomNom | October 16, 2009 11:39 PM
As a public HS teacher, I can say that usually no more than 25% of the class stands up to say the pledge. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't because I'm too busy setting up for class or helping a student get make up work. Some other teachers might call that "disrespectful" were they to walk into the room, but I don't really care. I'm not pushing the issue. Sometimes I'll say the pledge and drop off or mumble when it gets to the "under god" part. So far, none of the students have said anything about that (not sure what I will say when they do).
Really, it's my job to teach critical thinking, not blind allegiance to a piece of cloth or rote memorization of some poorly written creed. I care more that they respect other people, rather than symbols.
Posted by: Eric | October 17, 2009 12:46 PM
@43: I forgot how creepy that movie was!
Posted by: Eric | October 17, 2009 12:50 PM
Reading this story brought back some of my own not-so-fond memories from the 5th grade, because fifteen years ago, I was this kid. Unfortunately, even if I had been so inclined, I wasn’t capable of “talking back” to my teacher. At the time, I was a recent immigrant from the former Soviet Union, of all places; and contrary to some people’s
misconceptions, the Soviet Union never had an analogous practice, not even during the Stalin era. Even on my first day of school in “the land of the free,” I thought the practice peculiar, but I guess I just figured “when in Rome,....” However, several months later, perhaps as a result of my growing English proficiency, the absurdity of the ritual became more obvious to me; and one day I decided to sit out the Pledge, while everyone else robotically rose from their seats. Needless to say, my little act of rebellion didn’t go over so well with my teacher, Joanna Roura. She basically had a cow, and started yelling at me
in front of the whole class, something about “showing respect.” The take-away message was supposed to be that I owed it to America to participate in the Pledge. The whole
incident, which served to further cement my status as a pariah among my classmates, is rather ironic, because apparently, I wasn’t even expected to actually understand the words of the Pledge, although I suspect that I actually understood more than the teacher thought I did. She must have figured that it’s more important to enculturate recalcitrant little foreigners to show deference to holy cow symbols and mindless rituals.
I should add that my objection to the pledge had nothing to do with any concerns about the “under god” phrase; in fact, at the time I was still a “believer.”
Posted by: Silenced by the Pledge in Staten Island | October 17, 2009 9:15 PM
"it pledges allegiance to the flag before the republic...?! "
err.. I think that's "and for" the republic, not "before.."
I am a member of a board that has several public meetings a year, at which, for historical reasons, the pledge is said to start the meeting.
I stand and say the pledge but just leave out the "under god" part when we come to it. I just don't say the words.
The other stuff? eh. its ok
Posted by: Kevin (NYC) | October 18, 2009 10:12 PM
In British schools there's no flag-business, but all the religious belief options are covered. Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie show how it's done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3IZDUcIppk
Posted by: passing stranger | October 19, 2009 5:44 AM
He's now in a video on CNN:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/11/17/slog-somehow-overlooked
Hearing him in person is even better.
Posted by: Michael | November 17, 2009 8:17 PM
Wouldn't it be great if this kid never got to work for the ACLU, because it was no longer needed, thanks to actions of a bunch of brave ten-year olds?
"... with liberty and justice for all." - DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | November 17, 2009 8:41 PM
Michael @ 51 - thanks for linking that interview. Incredible.
The interviewer's last question reveals the complete ignorance of the media regarding the vast difference between simple majoritarian rule versus a government obligated to ensuring the exercise and defense of individual rights. That basic collective ignorance amongst many (I'd bet most) grown-ups, sometimes mundane but often willful, is part of the reason this young man's conscience has him refusing to take the Pledge.
Posted by: Michael Heath | November 17, 2009 10:13 PM