Innocent Detainees Tell Their Stories : Dispatches from the Culture Wars

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Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)

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Innocent Detainees Tell Their Stories

Posted on: November 4, 2009 9:23 AM, by Ed Brayton

The ACLU has released a video of interviews with a number of former Gitmo detainees describing their mistreatment and the effects it has had on them. All of these men were ultimately determined to be innocent, caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, yet they were imprisoned and abused for years on end without trial and without charges ever being filed. Video below the fold.

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Disgusting. What was done to these men is terrible enough on its own, but there seems to be no end to how much worse it can get. The crimes our government committed against them will never be punished, and their tormentors never tried. And who is left to interview these men; who is left to stand for the truth? The ACLU, because every major media corporation in our Federation is dedicating to tripping over each other in their race to be the most complicit in covering up this betrayal of our values, our identity, and the sacrifices of our ancestors.

Posted by: Julian | November 4, 2009 10:21 AM

So sad, and so shameful. I hope our country's reputation can one day be repaired.

Posted by: DataJack | November 4, 2009 10:43 AM

I'm convinced that all but idelogical zealots are a forgiving bunch, eager to extend grace beyond justice. The best way to repair our reputation is to:
1)loudly proclaim our values,
2) aggresively prosecute those in power that failed to defend those standards or actually violated them, and
3) harshly sentence those convicted (I'd like to see Addington and Cheney locked up next to the shoe-bomber in the supermax federal pen in CO).

We'll stick with 1 only, even as we continue to violate our own standards. This will become Obama's legacy as well, not just Cheney and W.'s, if he doesn't defend the rule of law on his watch.

Posted by: Michael Heath | November 4, 2009 11:25 AM

Why is the one guy muted??

Posted by: Fletcher Gustafson | November 4, 2009 11:54 AM

Michael Heath:

I agree with you 100% and I think that your description is on target and that your prescription for redress of wrongs is also on target.
I was impressed with the gracious comments of one of the detainees. He said, "We are not angry with the American people themselves, the good people; but we want them to understand how in their names what the ugly people have done to others" (paraphrased).

One of my observations is that the great masses of "good people" are so blinded by a civil religion that they are not able to distinguish between the concept of the rule of law and a misplaced patriotism.

While playing golf in South Carolina a few weeks ago I entered into a conversation with some locals regarding our efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq. (I knew better but apparently I was seized by a masochistic moment of intellectual idiocy!) The tone of the discussion revolved around the sacrifice that American soldiers were making to "keep us free." In other words, the unspoken theme was that "to be against the war(s) was to be against the Americans who were serving there."
I suggested that they weren't fighting to keep us free because there was no evidence that our American freedom was even remotely threatened. I offered some comments on the political and economic aspects of our presence there and the silent animosity became overwhelming. When they regained their "courage" I was accused of being a traitor, a communist and someone who should either "love it or leave it." When I announced that I was actually a patriot, having served 36 years in the U. S. military, I became even more of a "persona non grata." The general opinion was that America's problems were caused by people like me.

I see a great conflict between "American patriotism" and truth. My personal opinion is that the white-hot rhetoric of emotional patriotism will trump the rational arguments of truth when offered in the public square. Someone once said, "How many fools does it take to make a public?" I fear that the times are more perilous than we care to think or admit.

Posted by: CAPT Norm Holcomb, CHC, USN (Ret) | November 4, 2009 12:40 PM

Capt. Holcomb - I'm always grateful getting the opportunity to consider your thoughts. This is an improved forum with your presence.

I spent a week with my wife at Pawley's Plantation at a golf school about 15 years ago, that's several miles south of Myrtle Beach. I believe it's a Nicklaus design. While we had a great time, Myrtle Beach had become so commercialized I was never able to find SC style pork BBQ sandwiches (mustard-vinegar based) in spite of our driving around for hours one rainy afternoon. I grew up in MI reading the Detroit Free Press and its columnist Bob Talbert. Mr. Talbert was from SC and was continually promoting SC BBQ; I never did get it though I make it myself using venison neck meat.

I've also golfed SC a few times with a bunch of guys. I loved Caledonia, which had the added pleasure of its designer being a Michigan State turf mgt. grad. (my alma mater).

Posted by: Michael Heath | November 4, 2009 2:11 PM

CAPT Holcomb,
I have experienced the same exact thing in personal conversations, at some websites I go to and, once or twice, in the office. I also served for 20 years in the Navy and that always seems to put the icing on the cake for those people: my service must have been a false one given that I am obviously a leftist/socialist/traitor. I still try to argue that I am a patriot but my brand of patriotism seems to be so far removed from theirs that I sometimes wonder myself just how patriotic I really am.

It gets depressing after a while....

Posted by: Satcomguy | November 4, 2009 2:18 PM

Will there be any compensation though? The Australian David Hicks was released a year or so ago but the government is being very ham-fisted on that case and threatening Hicks should he ever talk about his experience etc. So are these people being compensated for the unlawful and inhuman incarceration or are they just being put out there and told to shut the hell up or else they'll get more of the same?

Posted by: MadScientist | November 4, 2009 3:55 PM

Unfortunately people don't seem to understand that you can disagree with a government or administration's reasons for going to war/staying at war but still support the individuals actually fighting the war.

Posted by: agfrgedfgrxdagfsd | November 4, 2009 4:44 PM

David Hicks was an armed and willing member of the Taliban - the organisation which routinely murders schoolgirls for the "crime" of trying to get an education.

Why, exactly, do you feel the need to express sympathy for such a nasty piece of excrement?

Posted by: Vince Whirlwind | November 4, 2009 9:34 PM

Vince: Does that justify torture?

Posted by: Modusoperandi | November 4, 2009 9:44 PM

Well, they were probably guilty of something. I'll bet they are foreigners. That alone is reason to send them off to be tortured. Or at least sent off to work in factories at less than minimum wage. Same thing, right?

Posted by: Tom | November 5, 2009 11:45 AM

Tom: It gets worse. There are way more people than just David Hicks, and most of them are way worse. For example I hear that Maher Arar wasn't just guilty of being formerly Syrian. He was, an is, also guilty of being currently...I don't know how to say this diplomatically, so I'll just come right out and say it...he's...he's...Canadian.
When I learned that I could barely contain my almost complete lack of humanity.

Don't get me wrong. I'm against torture...unless they're bad. Then it's okay. And there are people who belong to organizations and/or are citizens of countries that are bad/I don't like. We have to torture them over there so that we won't have to torture them over here. Plus there's that 24 "ticking timebomb" situation, which comes up all the time. Oh, and the ones that are accused of stuff, too, because they wouldn't be accused of something if they weren't guilty of it. So, there are oodles of people we should torture. Seriously, it's a growth industry, even though Obama isn't giving it the push it needs to really go over the top. Hopefully Palin will in 2012.

In short, we have to murder our ideals to save them.

Posted by: Modusoperandi | November 5, 2009 12:36 PM

Vince Whirlwind, #10: Why, exactly, do you feel the need to express sympathy for such a nasty piece of excrement?

One reason would be that no one should be punished except for a specific crime, and it must be determined that the crime did take place by carefully exmaning the evidence in an open proceeding.

Another reason is that punishment should be in due proportion to the crime, and that there are punishments that are so severe that no society that calls itself civilized should allow them to be inflicted for any reason.

Me, I actually think that the role of the penal system should be to protect the public, not to inflict "punishment". But I admit that I'm a minority in that regard.

Posted by: Chiroptera | November 5, 2009 12:51 PM