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brayton_headshot_wre_1443.jpg Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)

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Read For Yourself: Kent Hovind's Dissertation

Posted on: December 14, 2009 9:02 AM, by Ed Brayton

I've seen this before but I bet most of you haven't. Kent Hovind's dissertation for Patriot "University" -- aka a split level home in Colorado with no academic standards whatsoever and no ability to legitimately grant a degree -- is now available on the web for all to see at Wikileaks.

There is a mistake in the Wikileaks page about the document. It says:

According to our source, contrary to accepted practices in academia where doctoral dissertations are available to the public, Dr. Hovind, along with his alma mater, Patriot Bible University, has consistently refused to allow his dissertation to be offered for public consumption or scholarly inquiry.

But this is not true. I don't know who their source is, but I know who the original source of the dissertation is: My friend Skip Evans. If memory serves correctly, this was at least 10 years ago that Skip wrote to Patriot University asking for a copy of the Hovind dissertation. Some time later it came in the mail - not a copy of the dissertation, but the dissertation itself. How does he know it was the original dissertation? Because it contained pictures that were literally scotch-taped on to the page.

After that, I think Skip sent it along to Karen Bartelt, who wrote up a critique of it. But I think this is the first time it's actually been made available in full on the web. And that's a good thing because it's really, really funny. I think my favorite part was when he quoted Gould but didn't have the source for the quote, so it just said, "Steven J. Gould, a noted evolutionist, said in...." and then the quote. Then below the quote it says "KJV: GET BOOK TITLE." Which tells you how rigorous the doctoral "committee" was in grading the thesis.

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Comments

1

I like the "Hello, my name is Kent Hovind" intro.
It is so "Creationists Anonymous..."

Everybody say: "Helloooo, Keviiinnnnnnn"

Posted by: diegopig | December 14, 2009 9:12 AM

2

This was critiqued heavily over at PZs place. Many hoots and much well deserved derision.

Posted by: MikeMa | December 14, 2009 9:16 AM

3

Ed:

Reeding this wil impruv my kean analiticul skilz in wut partikuler weigh?

Posted by: democommie | December 14, 2009 9:24 AM

4

I've read through a good bit of this now. It's not even wrong. If you're going to bother wading into it, do it only for the amusement factor. Critiquing the "science" isn't even fair. It's like a tenured professor beating up on a middle school project. With respect to the earth science stuff that he "addresses," Mr.* Hovind's "arguments" make the points advanced by the IDC-proponents that pop in here look well-supported, logical, and articulate.

A few people have gone through the effort of creating .doc files and .pdfs that you can search. Links to those documents can be found here:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/12/kent_hovinds_doctoral_disserta.php


*Sorry, I'm not sharing a title with this asshat based on this thing he calls a dissertation.

Posted by: Josh | December 14, 2009 9:45 AM

5

This remains among my favorite excerpts (immediately following an idiotic note about how "Hitler slaughtered the Jews and hated hated the blacks because he was an evolutionist," a quote that would probably lead my Holocaust-survivor, Darwin-loving grandmother to make some off-hand comment about the anti-semitic and racist history of Christianity):

"In Japan, the same thing was going on with the Shintu religion. This teaches that the Japanese people evolved from gods and it was their destiny to rule the world. Japan and Germany got together and we had an awful time in World War II."

As a religious studies major, I have no doubt that if I had ever submitted a paper in which I mispelled Shinto, then proceeded to make an absurd claim about the religion (which had no concept of evolution, and existed long before the Japanese knew about Darwin) and then dropped an idiotic statement like "Japan and Germany got together and we had an awful time in World War II." I would have been swiftly laughed out of any meeting of the undergraduate program, much less a PhD program.

Posted by: JStein | December 14, 2009 9:49 AM

6

My personal favourite sentence, as found on page 77 (per Adobe Acrobat; the pages in that part don't seem to be numbered):

He saw Heaven!!!

Underlined rather than bolded in the original; the underline tag doesn't seem to work.

I wonder, could this be the only finished, accepted doctoral dissertation in existence that uses three consecutive exclamation marks?

Posted by: DaveL | December 14, 2009 10:23 AM

7

"I wonder, could this be the only finished, accepted doctoral dissertation in existence that uses three consecutive exclamation marks?"

Well, if this is the standard they accept at PU, then there might be others in their library.

Posted by: Moopheus | December 14, 2009 10:34 AM

8

This is absolutely the dissertation that was mailed to Skip Evans: he showed up in the comments at PZ's site and pointed out that the scan has the page number notations he made while going through it.

Also: for a movement that's so very contemptuous of 'elitist' academics, their leaders are sure fond of granting themselves academic titles. I sense a certain amount of envy in their scorn of ivory-tower intellectual types...

Posted by: mad the swine | December 14, 2009 10:39 AM

9
I sense a certain amount of envy in their scorn of ivory-tower intellectual types...

Yeah, isn't that interesting...

Posted by: Josh | December 14, 2009 10:41 AM

10

My favorite part is probably where he calls Darwin's grandfather fat. I guess that just shows what a sinful godless heathen he was. Between that and his classifying of half of the worlds religions as atheistic and evolutionary this honestly might just be a new (old) low for Hovind.

Posted by: deep | December 14, 2009 10:53 AM

11

But it's called Patriot Bible University! Why do you hate America, God, and higher education?

Posted by: Brandon | December 14, 2009 11:12 AM

12

Without question, the best part of the dissertation is when he offers to lick rocks from Mars and Saturn to prove that there is no bacterial life on those planets.

While there are so many hilarious passages, the impression I have had since reading it last week is that Hovind has no idea what education is. That he would submit a document as deeply flawed as this one as the final project in his work toward a doctorate shows his contempt for scholarship. Clearly, the ability to call himself "doctor" means a lot more to him than doing the actual work that earns people that title. It reveals something sad about the guy.

Posted by: barry21 | December 14, 2009 11:16 AM

13

Granting a Ph.D based on this over-grown roll of TP is an insult to every honest grad student who ever sweated over a dissertation.

Posted by: Eamon Knight | December 14, 2009 11:16 AM

14

Some time later it came in the mail - not a copy of the dissertation, but the dissertation itself.

How irresponsible of PatU to allow the only known copy of such an historic and irreplaceable document to leave the premises in the hands of a stranger of unknown intent! Where is this priceless dissertation now?

At least we have the reassurance of knowing the author is securely guarded by a responsible federal agency.

Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | December 14, 2009 11:19 AM

15
...and we had an awful time in World War II

Speak for yourself, Kent, I had a ball!

Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | December 14, 2009 11:21 AM

16

I hate to have to say this, but I think most of the comments here have missed the point. (I thought the same at PZ Myers post, but worked it out too late.) The important point here isn't that the dissertation is awful -- the important point is that it worked!! Which says something pretty terrible about PU, of course. But as far as Mr. Hovind -- if he knew what sort of quality he needed to get the degree, then why bother going to any more work than he needed to?

Posted by: psweet | December 14, 2009 11:36 AM

17

You people are forgetting that Charles Darwin grandpappy was "He was an extremely fat person. In fact, he was so fat they
had to cut a curve in the dining room table so that he
could get up to the table." So there.

Posted by: holytape | December 14, 2009 11:39 AM

18

I am so happy Hovind's "dissertation" is now available on the Web. And by the way, Ed, your memory of how his dissertation came to light is correct.

Posted by: Kenneth Fair | December 14, 2009 11:46 AM

19

I read through the first half of it before I gave up and just skimmed the rest. At one point when discussing he age of the Universe he mentioned that he was going to go talk about "red shift" in more detail later -- only that was the last mention of it I could find. Oh, well.

But when you start off with the main premise of you thesis being that the theory of evolution began with Satan's apparition in the Garden of Eden, then there is nowhere to go but down from there. Also striking is his utterly pedestrian inclusion of the birth and death years of every single historical figure he includes in his dissertation, as if we really needed to know them all.

After look at this trash I thought I would have a look at the Patriot University site. After a quick stop at the parody version (.com) I decided to enroll in to the real PU (.org) doctorate program.

Before you get to the enrollment page you are treated to a two minute video of the wonderful benefits of a tutorless, teacherless degree course where you have to do everything yourself without them having to lift a finger except for cashing your checks. How could one refuse such an offer?

After you fill in your personal and educational details, including the number of credit hours, and swearing that you really are a born again Christian (i.e. gullible enough to fall for their scam) you're taken directly to their "store" of courses where you simply pick the ones you want (e.g. $149 for the doctorate + $89/month ongoing fee) and once you provide them your credit card information you're on your way to that PhD you so badly needed.

Posted by: tacitus | December 14, 2009 11:50 AM

20

Maybe the worst result of publishing Hovind's mess is that Patriot Univ. will undoubtedly see an uptick in applications.

Posted by: MikeMa | December 14, 2009 11:56 AM

21

It blows my mind that Hovind has been such a big figure in the Creationist movement. In comparison:

Ken Ham is an ignorant asswipe with no sense of self-awareness, but he focuses on what he does best -- misdirection -- while mostly avoiding detailed theories.

Will Dembski has absolutely no clue about the math he uses and is blatantly disingenuous to boot (the continued insistence that the WEASELS program used locking...), but his papers at least have the veneer of legitimate academic work. If I glanced at one out of context and didn't do any more than skim the abstract, it would probably seem unremarkable to me.

Stephen Meyer actually seems to have a genuine passion for cellular biology and, I must admit, probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than someone like me does. He's just demented in how he views the implications of biology.

Casey Luskin is a slimy little toady, but that's to be expected -- he's a PR man, plain and simple. The things he says are completely devoid of any thought or logic, but he doesn't really stand out in the world of Fox News talking heads. He's just another babbling ideologue.

But Hovind... Hovind! His theories are so elaborate and preposterous -- the ice sheath? Really?!? -- you don't even need to look for a second to see the crackpottery. And he seems to be incapable of even presenting a veneer of academia. "Hello my name is" to start your dissertation?!?? WTF?!?!?!?? I could write a more convincing fake dissertation in a single evening.

Hovind seems to be absolutely cracked, from the bottom up. The other Creationist "luminaries" seem to have no grip on science or logic, but Hovind seems to have no grip on common reality. It boggles the mind..

Posted by: James Sweet | December 14, 2009 12:01 PM

22

I submit what I would call Thill's Law:
Whenever there's "patriot" in the title, it's crap.

Patriot University: check
Patriot Act: check

Now I need a 3rd data point for confirmation. Problem is, I haven't seen Mel Gibson's "Patriot" movie. Does anybody here have an opinion?

Posted by: Christophe Thill | December 14, 2009 12:12 PM

23

Christophe Thill:

I don't know about the Gibson movie, but how about the New England (cheating douchebag) Patriots?

Posted by: mad the swine | December 14, 2009 12:23 PM

24

Christophe Thill@22:

I have. It is.

fusilier
James 2:25

Posted by: fusilier | December 14, 2009 12:24 PM

25

tacitus "Also striking is his utterly pedestrian inclusion of the birth and death years of every single historical figure he includes in his dissertation, as if we really needed to know them all."
And were any of them before 4004BC? I rest my case.

Posted by: Modusoperandi | December 14, 2009 12:27 PM

26
Granting a Ph.D based on this over-grown roll of TP is an insult to every honest grad student who ever sweated over a dissertation.

It's an insult to any undergrad who ever sweated over a senior thesis. Maybe even any high schooler who sweated over a senior thesis.

Posted by: Scott Hanley | December 14, 2009 12:44 PM

27

mad the swine sounds like a Giants, Jets or Miami fan.

Posted by: democommie | December 14, 2009 2:07 PM

28
mad the swine sounds like a Giants, Jets or Miami fan.

Can I just say how depressing it is that the Bills don't even warrant inclusion as possible AFC East rivals anymore?

Come on! We actually won a game yesterday! (Granted, it was against the Chiefs, and it was touch-and-go in the third quarter... but beggars can't be choosers when you are only getting your fifth win in Week 14...

Posted by: James Sweet | December 14, 2009 2:28 PM

29

mad the swine:

Everyone knew Belichick was stealing signals using video cameras, and I have no doubt he wasn't the only one in the league. He was just the only one who got ratted out.

Posted by: Brian X | December 14, 2009 2:43 PM

30

Hovind couldn't even get the name right: it's Stephen Gould, not Steven (there's a Steven Gould who is a science fiction author, of Jumper among other things).

Posted by: topquark | December 14, 2009 4:12 PM

31

Whew!

I owe Hovind an apology. Patriot Bible University's course load is far harder than I'd expected.

Posted by: Dr. Modusoperandi | December 14, 2009 4:59 PM

32
Now I need a 3rd data point for confirmation. Problem is, I haven't seen Mel Gibson's "Patriot" movie. Does anybody here have an opinion?

I've seen it. It's awful, at least from a historical perspective. If you like overemotional, two-dimensional dreck, it might be a movie to your taste. There's only so much "all those Negroes really loved being slaves because their Masters were all so nice to them" before the dyspepsia kicks in, though.

Posted by: Jillian | December 14, 2009 5:31 PM

33

Oh and, if memory serves, Mel's brown people aren't slaves. They're freed men, sucking a bunch of emotional conflict out of the film. Brits bad, Americans good, with very little grey.

Posted by: Modusoperandi | December 14, 2009 6:06 PM

34

You guys can try to deny the truth all you want. But you know that Kent Hovind is right! Afterall, every "bib bang" (p. 58) I've ever seen did indeed create a big mess, and did not even once create a neat ordered universe.

Seriously though, everybody should read this. It's hilarious! The intro claims that there's 15 chapters, but I'm over halfway through the thing and I'm only in to chapter 2! And most of that was chapter 1, which was basically entirely devoted to ad hominem attacks (Erasmus Darwin was fat! Lamarck was had illegitimate children! [insert first name here] Huxley was the devil!).

I also love how every single religion in the world was apparently either atheistic, pantheistic, or believed in the god of the Bible. And he says that Islam was pantheistic! LOL.

If I wasn't already familiar with Kent Hovind, I would have a hard time believing that the person who wrote this was being completely serious.

Posted by: Vic Viper | December 14, 2009 6:09 PM

35

Patriot movie was terrible. Worse than terrible.

(MO: Brits are always bad in Gibson movies. I'm waiting to see his version of The Longest Day.)

Patriot missile? Borderline iffy.


Posted by: Shay | December 14, 2009 8:48 PM

36

Without question, the best part of the dissertation is when he offers to lick rocks from Mars and Saturn to prove that there is no bacterial life on those planets.

In my Patriot U dissertation on cosmological evolution, I proved there were no such things as black holes by offering to jump into a so-called black hole and come back unharmed. Once again, the Bible has been proved true!

Posted by: Jeffrey Kramer | December 14, 2009 9:03 PM

37

My favorite passage is from page 100:

"Ken Taylor' Living Bible, I don'the garbage heap. want to be too negative because there are many good things about it, in Genesis has an attempt to pacify the evolutionists by trying to include billions of years into the Bible framework."

I am dying to know what "(t)he "garbage heap" statement was about!

Posted by: Moon Jaguar | December 14, 2009 10:13 PM

38

Holy crap Moon Jaguar, was that the actual sentence? My god, how does the man look himself in the mirror? I still feel ashamed years after I screwed up a spell check on an undergrad paper and somehow ended up describing a black hole as "malicious". My professor's puzzled question mark next to it is like a mark of shame that's burned into my subconscious and will follow me until I die.

How does a person set the bar so low and still manage to get out of bed in the morning? I think at that point I'd just say the hell with it and do myself in.

tacitus wrote:

After you fill in your personal and educational details, including the number of credit hours, and swearing that you really are a born again Christian (i.e. gullible enough to fall for their scam) you're taken directly to their "store" of courses where you simply pick the ones you want (e.g. $149 for the doctorate + $89/month ongoing fee) and once you provide them your credit card information you're on your way to that PhD you so badly needed.

I find myself wondering why this is legal.

Posted by: Leni | December 15, 2009 12:44 AM

39

"peersuaded" is actually a great word! We can use that for creationist and IDists, in contrast to "peer-reviewed."

Posted by: Kristine | December 15, 2009 12:54 AM

40

the best part of the dissertation is when he offers to lick rocks from Mars and Saturn to prove that there is no bacterial life on those planets

Ted Haggard wrote his dissertation on the connection between atheism and homosexuality, and he offered to lick c*cks from Maine to California to prove his thesis.

Posted by: NSFW | December 15, 2009 12:54 AM

41

How does a person set the bar so low and still manage to get out of bed in the morning?

He gets out of bed in the morning because by now he's acquired a taste for that prison gruel.

Posted by: Kristine | December 15, 2009 12:56 AM

42

Moon Jaguar - Perhaps Ken is admitting that he wears garbage as camouflaged apparel against the big, bad liberal/atheistic world. Hence every morning he dons his garbage heap disguise, and steps out bravely to face the demon haunted world! - DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | December 15, 2009 1:08 AM

43

Just finished the whole thing. What fun!

My favorite part has to be the poem. I was laughing so much when I read it. I mean, the "dissertation" was already a huge joke, but man, that was too much...

Posted by: Vic Viper | December 15, 2009 4:49 AM

44

Now can someone explain to me why any sane person (hmm, it may be a key point...) would buy their degree from such a diploma mill. What are they going to do? Take your money and give you an ugly piece of paper they made with their inkjet printer? I'd think that, if you want a nice looking fantasy degree, you'de better take your design to the nearest print shop. It will look much better, especially if they work with traditional typography (some still do). And at least you'll give your money to a honest worker.

Posted by: Christophe Thill | December 15, 2009 5:11 AM

45

Christophe, Kent's motivations, at least, for undertaking this "course of study" are fairly obvious. There are now school children who refer to him as Dr. Dino. And there you have it. This "degree" allows him to put PhD on the title slides of his presentations. I don't think that Patriot University sounds appreciably different from Brown University to most middle schoolers. Hell, I don't think that it would necessarily send up a flag with a lot of adults. You know, I think I'm going to test this with my parents when I fly up to see them next week.


As to why anyone else would want to do this, I can quickly think of only similar motivations.

Posted by: Josh | December 15, 2009 5:32 AM

46

Since he's a doctor, he can prescribe himself anything now. And he can wear that cool headband with the shiny flip-down disk on the forehead and/or a stethoscope around his neck. And his hands are always cold. And he can say "Stand aside, I'm a doctor" and there's nothing you can do to stop him. Nothing! That's how it works. Fear, obey or worship him, he's a god among men.

Posted by: Modusoperandi | December 15, 2009 8:53 AM

47

Modus: you left out "turn your head and cough".

Posted by: Rick R | December 15, 2009 8:55 AM

48

"Hello, my name is Kent Hovind."

lol wut

Posted by: Coryat | December 15, 2009 2:32 PM

49

I actually agree that he has a degree. If you let me explain. Firstly if he does not then he is just a school teacher. So how do we get around the fact that he always wins his debates. It would be best to say that he has a degree otherwise a common teacher beats our best. I watched the debate he had with Mike Shermer and Hovind without a doubt won. I also watched the debate with James Paulson. Man that was a slaughter. Just a word of warning make sure you watch Hovinds debates before you say yes to debate him. When he gets out he will be back at it. Please heed my warning dont debate him you will not do the evolution cause anygood.

Posted by: Ron J | December 18, 2009 9:12 AM

50
If you let me explain. Firstly if he does not then he is just a school teacher. So how do we get around the fact that he always wins his debates.

Because he lies, and his lies are so numerous that it's impossible, in real time, either for his opponent to rebut them or his audience to verify them.

In slower media where people can pick apart his claims one by one, he winds up looking like a total fool.

Posted by: DaveL | December 18, 2009 9:22 AM

51

Ron - Take your meds; seek professional advice. Immediately! - DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | December 18, 2009 9:27 AM

52

Ron J "I watched the debate he had with Mike Shermer and Hovind without a doubt won."
Well, first of all, Shermer isn't a debater. He's a genuinely nice guy who likes to listen as much as he likes to talk. Second, hello "Gish Gallop". I'm watching this debate and two minutes alone of Hovind's presentation would take at least an hour to refute. That is the reason why Creationists "win" debates. Pass enough, um, "stuff" quickly enough, and the other guy will expend so much energy refuting some of your points that he won't have enough time to either get the remainder or build a case of his own. Live debate, vice written, is even more imbalanced.
Debate isn't about truth or the pursuit of truth. It's rhetorical combat. The object isn't to be correct, it's to win.

Posted by: Modusoperandi | December 18, 2009 10:26 AM

53

Well, after watching more, I've come to the conclusion that Hovind, like most YECs, is pretty good at refuting what he thinks the Theory of Evolution is. Unfortunately for him, like most YECs, his version of it bears little resemblance to the actual theory.

Thanks Ron J, for ruining my good mood. You suck. Go read a book.

Posted by: Modusoperandi | December 18, 2009 11:31 AM

54

Moon Jaguar, DingoJack - I'm reasonably sure that the offending sentence should read:

"As for Ken Taylor's The Living Bible, I don't want to be too negative, because there are many good things about it. However, in Genesis it has an attempt to pacify the evolutionists by trying to incorporate 'billions of years' into the Biblical framework."

Even then the prose style is terrible and wholly unsuitable for a dissertation. The 'garbage heap' comment is clearly an artefact from a less complimentary version of the paragraph, possibly reading something like 'Ken Taylor's garbage heap The Living Bible'.

Posted by: ALloyd | December 22, 2009 8:16 AM

55

Alloyd - aww, you're no fun. :) - DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | December 22, 2009 9:41 AM

56

By the way, WikiLeaks needs money or equipment support to keep going. Please visit that link again and pitch in with a contribution or some server space. Remember, every penny helps!

Posted by: Monado, FCD | January 9, 2010 4:31 PM

57

He made a lot of money from this thesis, bnut what a pitty he didnt pay his taxes.

Posted by: michael | July 25, 2010 5:19 PM

58

Patriot University doesn't list dead people as faculty members because it would confuse the students:

As a non-traditional Christian school, our distance-learning programs are curriculum-based, rather than teacher-based. Therefore, the teaching material is presented by outstanding Christian leaders who are not on our
payroll. So, if a course is based on a book by Adrian Rogers or J.Vernon McGee or Billy Graham, technically they are the teachers. But we do not believe it is ethical to list their names and qualifications as being on our
faculty. And since some of our “teachers” have gone on to Heaven, you would no doubt be confused about how they are coming to work at Patriot University each morning.


Posted by: Dr X | July 25, 2010 5:49 PM

59

No offense to the author of this article but... Just like in when i was in high school or jr. high or even elementary school: I get the impression that you guys are just picking on someone!

Nock it off or i'll put you in time out!... holy crap!

But, I really don't see how the validity of his PHD defines who he actually is! lets say he did attend a crapy school and wrote a crapy dissertation. And ya, i'll even call the school a "diplomat mill" . Then, all the phd's, who spent years in school studying and critiquing their area of stud, He he made them look silly!! I'm not kidding either! this guy could out debate most people!

For all the PHD's he argued with an won over the years, Kent Hovind, who was never formally educated at and accredited university, made you look silly!

He may not have had a valid phd but... he was REALLY GOOD at what he did! no-one can deny that! you can make fun of him behind is back or single him out and pick on him. but I thought he was awesome! and I always will to!

Posted by: Ryan Coxey | January 28, 2011 12:38 AM

60

Ryan - Take your meds; seek professional advice. Immediately! - DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | January 28, 2011 2:21 AM

61

DingoJack, pah! You're just in denial about Adam riding dinosaurs.

Posted by: Modusoperandi | January 28, 2011 2:59 AM

62
lets say he did attend a crapy school and wrote a crapy dissertation.

I've never been to the school, but his dissertation is not a "let's say", hypothetical kind of thing. I've read it. It is crappy. Laugh-out-loud, unbelievable, ignominiously crappy.

He may not have had a valid phd but... he was REALLY GOOD at what he did! no-one can deny that!

The thing is that "what he did" was lie. That's why creationists have an advantage over subject-matter experts in oral debate before the public: they can make up any crap they please and the audience, not knowing any better, will usually believe them. People with actual PhDs are used to having to substantiate their claims with references and evidence - but in the time it takes to do that, a shyster like Hovind can disburse a dozen facile lies.

Posted by: DaveL | January 28, 2011 6:25 AM

63

The link to wikileaks doesn't work - where else can I find a copy of "Dr" Hovind's dissertation?

Posted by: Paul B | February 15, 2011 12:25 AM

64

Thanks for this bit of information! I am writing my own Hovind critique right now, and it will appear on the blog my name is linked to! You are awesome, BTW!

Posted by: Dr. Nociceptor | June 30, 2011 1:15 AM

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