Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
The ascension of Julia Gillard to be Australia's Prime Minister is provoking much stupidity in that fair country, all of it over the fact that Gillard is the rarest of creatures -- an openly atheist politician. Some of the Christians have, predictably, thrown quite a fit over it:
Hotly criticising the new PM is Pastor Danny Nalliah of the Catch the Fire Ministries. He claims that a godless Gillard is out to ''destroy our Judeo-Christian heritage,'' outlaw worship altogether and turn Australia into another ''Communist China''.In endorsing Tony Abbott as his preferred PM, Pastor Nalliah wrote on his website last week: ''Ms Gillard is anti-God, pro-abortion, has no Christian moral values and the list goes on. On the other hand Mr Tony Abbott is openly Christian, pro-life and has very good moral values.''
Someone wake me up when Gillard bans religious worship in Australia. I'll be happy to join the lynching party then.
But the Christians aren't the only ones acting stupid. So are the Wiccans:
ON AUGUST 15, between 3pm and 6pm, Julia Gillard may feel a sudden draining of her energy. She'll shrug it off as a sign that the demands of campaigning are catching up with her. And she'll be right.On that Sunday, Melbourne witch and high priestess Lizzy Rose and her coven will invite Ms Gillard's energy into their magic circle to speak about ''her intentions of where she is taking the country''.
Ms Rose says her divinations ''will prove to us whether Julia is going to govern through ego or through her heart space''.
Will atheism spell trouble for Gillard?
JOHN ELDER
July 18, 2010Ads by Google
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The PM's admission that she doesn't believe in God has divided religious leaders, writes John Elder.
ON AUGUST 15, between 3pm and 6pm, Julia Gillard may feel a sudden draining of her energy. She'll shrug it off as a sign that the demands of campaigning are catching up with her. And she'll be right.
On that Sunday, Melbourne witch and high priestess Lizzy Rose and her coven will invite Ms Gillard's energy into their magic circle to speak about ''her intentions of where she is taking the country''.
Ms Rose says her divinations ''will prove to us whether Julia is going to govern through ego or through her heart space''.
If Ms Gillard, an avowed atheist, passes the ''heart-space'' test, Ms Rose says she'll get the endorsement of her Order of Wisdom, Learning and Light.
''We're not trying to recruit her against her will,'' she says. ''We see her as a high priestess anyway, regardless of her atheism.''
Okay, that's just creepy. And idiotic. Every bit as bad as the egregious stupidity being offered by the fundamentalist Christians.
Politics
Comments
Fortunately, these examples are the rare extremes. The majority of Australian voters are indifferent to religion and the religious affiliation of their politicians.
Posted by: Ashley Moore | July 22, 2010 9:24 AM
Honestly, 90% of Australians don't care.
Kevin Rudd's ouster as PM had far less to do with his high profile Christianity than it had to do with him trying to impose a new tax on mining companies and the fact that he came from Queensland and therefore wasn't part of the NSW/Victorian nexus that has dominated Labor for as long as I can remember.
Gillard's seemingly inevitable victory over the Liberals' Tony Abbott will have far less to do with his very public Catholicism than with the fact that he's a dickhead.
Posted by: Ian Gould | July 22, 2010 9:25 AM
And... and... Julia Gilard utterly rejects Budgie smugglers - which is, of course what every self respecting christianist (including T. Abbot) wears to church on Sundays. (Along with Downer-regulation fish-nets). And you thought only Republicans and Tories were kinky?
The kink runs deep in the right. - Dingo
Posted by: DingoJack | July 22, 2010 9:26 AM
You really shouldn't smuggle budgies. It's not like they're rare-- they can be found in pet shops all over the world-- and they could easily smother if kept in a restricted space anyway.
Posted by: Gretchen | July 22, 2010 9:29 AM
Good for Gillard, and good for the people of Australia!
It would be both good for the country, and good for Gillard politically, if she would go on the offensive ASAP and start attacking the specific stupidities of specific religions. Starting, maybe, with some concrete attacks on Australian media outlets that give voice to AGW denialists;; and maybe moving on to attack the same denialist "thought" processes at work in the cdesign proponentsist movement.
It's going to be (already is) her against a huge chunk of the world, so the most important question now is: When does she attack? Right or wrong, she cannot afford to let herself be put on the defensive. As Lord Nelson said: "Never mind maneuvers, just go straight at 'em."
Asking the US to extradite Ken Ham would be an amusing bit of street theatre.
Posted by: Raging Bee | July 22, 2010 9:30 AM
And no, the Wiccans here aren't "as bad as the fundamentalists," though they are idiotic. (Quite frankly, I get the feeling that Lizzy Rose does the same "energy invitation" thing with all national politicians; but she's only getting attention now because this candidate is an atheist. It just sounds like another pretentious ritual, based on a group's liturgy, and done more than once.)
Posted by: Raging Bee | July 22, 2010 9:39 AM
"It would be both good for the country, and good for Gillard politically, if she would go on the offensive ASAP and start attacking the specific stupidities of specific religions."
I'd give you 100 to 1 odds against this happening.
There's a sort of meta-faith in Australia that's adhered to as fiercely as any explicit religion and that meta-faith is quietism, the idea that one's private religious leanings are one's private business and no business of anyone's.
Posted by: Ian Gould | July 22, 2010 9:44 AM
Basement Cat's BALLS, that's ridiculous! I can't decide whether I should laugh at it, or weep for humanity.
Posted by: WMDKitty | July 22, 2010 9:48 AM
`There's a sort of meta-faith in Australia that's adhered to as fiercely as any explicit religion and that meta-faith is quietism, the idea that one's private religious leanings are one's private business and no business of anyone's.'
Except, of course, that she still opposes same-sex marriage, just as Rudd did.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/australia-lags-shamefully-on-gay-marriage-20100701-zqia.html
Posted by: Vincent Manis | July 22, 2010 9:52 AM
"It's going to be (already is) her against a huge chunk of the world,"
But not against any significant chunk of the Australian electorate.
Bob Hawke's atheism didn't interfere with his highly successful run as one of our longest-serving PMs, his successor Paul Keating's luke-warm Catholicism won him no votes; Keating's successor as Labor leader Bill Hayden failed dismally despite his much more ardent attachment ot the Catholic church.
Posted by: Ian Gould | July 22, 2010 9:53 AM
Order of Wisdom, Learning and Light - OWLL? You've got to be kidding me!
Posted by: BCM | July 22, 2010 9:59 AM
"Except, of course, that she still opposes same-sex marriage, just as Rudd did."
Except that as a self-proclaimed atheist she can't cite Christian teaching to justify her hypocrisy on this issue.
Gillard's opposition to gay marriage has nothing to do with her religious beliefs and everything to do with her pandering to the bigotry of far too many of my fellow Aussies
Posted by: Ian Gould | July 22, 2010 10:26 AM
Romans 13 says:
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
Why do christians only pay attention to the bible when it falls in line with their prejudices?
Posted by: Dugglebogey | July 22, 2010 10:27 AM
"I get the feeling that Lizzy Rose does the same "energy invitation" thing with all national politicians; but she's only getting attention now because this candidate is an atheist."
Gillard is not a "candidate", she is the duly elected Prime Minister and holds the Governor-General's commission.
Posted by: Ian Gould | July 22, 2010 10:30 AM
I'm quite happy if Christians don't pay attention to that part of the bible, Dugglebogey, as the position it endorses is revolting and can lead to disastrous consequences.
Posted by: Gretchen | July 22, 2010 10:30 AM
Have you investigated whether the religious folks in question even had any minds to begin with?
Posted by: Phillip IV | July 22, 2010 11:03 AM
On the contrary! It isn't revolting, and that's what's wrong with it. On this, I stand with Thomas Jefferson.
Posted by: D. C. Sessions | July 22, 2010 11:17 AM
That Nalliah character is crazier than you think.
Get a load of this:
I did not have a prompting to stop the bus but I told the Lord, “How dare Satan take a life on this tour, she cannot go right now.” I had the prompting of the Holy Spirit to put my hand on her chest and call back life so I got right up to her body, put my hand on her chest and shouted out, “In the name of Jesus life return! Satan you have no right to take this life on this tour. Diana, come back in Jesus name!” Glory to God, everyone was watching, including the Sri Lankan & Arab Christian tour guides. Immediately Diana opened her eyes, her eye balls fell into place and she gave me a great big smile. The whole bus erupted with shouts of joy as the Spirit of God raised her from the dead!
Posted by: Reynold | July 22, 2010 11:24 AM
Why am I so stupid? I forgot to post this comment from an aussie board about that "raising the dead" stuff.
Posted by: Reynold | July 22, 2010 11:31 AM
So, I read the medical doctor's testimony of what happened in Neynold's link.
1. A woman has some sort of event, maybe a heart attack.
2. He begins to treat her with blows to the chest after finding no pulse. The preacher decides to say that this means she is dead.
3. He stops (!!!) because the preacher tells him that this is something spiritual.
4. After the preacher touches her, she comes around.
5. They don't take her the hospital (!!!) after a possible heart attack.
Two things. The doctor is a quack as he stopped treating her and the other is that is couldn't have possibly been the emergency medical treatment that brought her around, right?
Posted by: Aaron | July 22, 2010 11:38 AM
I'm confused by this "heart space" business. If there is a space where her heart is supposed to be, doesn't that make her a Conservative?
Posted by: xebecs | July 22, 2010 12:05 PM
Honestly, 90% of Australians don't care.
You think you could send some rational people America's way? If so, can you do it by shipping them to Mexico and having them cross the border illegally so as to piss off the wingnuts here to a greater extent?
Posted by: KennyG | July 22, 2010 12:11 PM
Catch the Fire ministries is up to their pointed horns supporting the African alleged child witch murderers.
It's a good thing Julia Gillard doesn't have "Xian moral values". Australia is too grown up to hunt down alleged child witches and kill them.
For now the Catch the Children and set them on Fire Ministries will have to settle for vicarious witch hunting by watching their African counterparts in action.
Posted by: raven | July 22, 2010 12:14 PM
The good thing is that most Australians don't really care about about a person's religion save for some inland farming towns, but even so many younger people don't care about how religion factors into governing.
Unfortunate, being in Australia, there is a matter that Julia Gillard expressed that has turned me off voting for her. It's her stance on the internet. In this case, she's pushing for the monitoring (and filtering) of internet in Australia.
So if she remains in power after the election, we have to bid welcome, the great firewall of the outback.
Posted by: Edrei | July 22, 2010 12:21 PM
You had me at "Minds".
Posted by: Silent Service | July 22, 2010 12:41 PM
Vincent Manis "Except, of course, that she still opposes same-sex marriage, just as Rudd did."
"It's Bruce and Sheila, not Bruce and Bruce!"
Ian Gould "...his successor Paul Keating's luke-warm Catholicism won him no votes; Keating's successor as Labor leader Bill Hayden failed dismally despite his much more ardent attachment ot the Catholic church."
Has Australia considered a Pentecostal PM? I hear that that group is quite popular with the Lord these days.
Dugglebogey "Why do christians only pay attention to the bible when it falls in line with their prejudices?"
Okay, I'll try to keep this short. When you get Saved, God fills you with His will. This means that your beliefs suddenly become His beliefs. Ergo, it's not you, it's the Lord. This means that you're never wrong, because He's never wrong. If you don't think that Person X should be a head of state, God agrees with you. He's like that. Therefore, when someone you agree with (and God agrees with) is PM (or president) is in charge, you must obey him (because God says so), but when someone you disagree with is in charge, it's straight to Psalms 109.
Gretchen "I'm quite happy if Christians don't pay attention to that part of the bible, Dugglebogey, as the position it endorses is revolting and can lead to disastrous consequences."
Look, Gretchen, if God didn't want you to be stuck in the hole of Iraq dug on a lie and filled with ideology-based planning, He wouldn't have put His own candidate in charge, keeping you safe for eight years. This is why we have to renew Bush's tax cuts. Not for his legacy, but for His legacy. And also deregulation. It's what Jesus would do.
Posted by: Modusoperandi | July 22, 2010 4:06 PM
"provoking much stupidity"? Not really. Her announcement provoked hardly a ripple in the mainstream media and talk-radio was also occupied with other things.
"provoking much stupidity" from Danny Nalliah? Sure, that's his specialty.
Posted by: Roger Scott | July 22, 2010 4:20 PM
the pastor is confused. Australia doesn't have a Judeo-Christian heritage, it has a criminal heritage.
Posted by: Gibbon | July 22, 2010 4:48 PM
Modusoperandi "When you get Saved, God fills you with His will. This means that your beliefs suddenly become His beliefs. Ergo, it's not you, it's the Lord. This means that you're never wrong, because He's never wrong."
Growing up a fundie prisoner, this was one of their most infuriating traits. They simultaneously brag about how humble they are, while also claiming that they can't possibly be wrong.
("Of course Revelation was talking about the Soviet Union and the US!")
("I'm just telling you what the Bible says! Are you calling God a liar?")
Posted by: Kermit | July 22, 2010 7:00 PM
Please don't judge all Wiccans based on the silly comments of one person.
Posted by: Paen | July 22, 2010 7:08 PM
Kermit, some of the people here grew up with similar experiences. Not me. I was raised by wolves. I had to give it up, though. Kevin Costner kept trying to dance with me.
Paen, how many people's silly comments should we listen to before we judge all Wiccans? Further, is the number of people or the number of their silly comments the metric on which we should put the most weight? If the latter, why are silly comments counted, while non-silly ones are ignored?
Posted by: Modusoperandi | July 22, 2010 7:35 PM
Nalliah is a deluded Pat Robertson wannabe. He said the bushfires that killed nearly 200 people last year were Yahweh/Allah's retribution for the state of Victoria legalising abortion.
Thankfully he's about the only real shock preacher we've got down here. His sort of idiocy is really very rare.
The major churches down here haven't made a fuss about Gillard's atheism, possibly because she immediately demonstrated that she would kowtow to them on things like gay marriage. Even though it's only a minority of Australians who oppose gay marriage.
As of next month you won't be able to blame me. I'm voting Green this time.
Posted by: ambulocetacean | July 22, 2010 7:43 PM
Oh, we've got no monopoly on rational people here in Australia. What we've got is a strong culture amongst many (but not all, by any means) of keeping religion out of politics. We're just as irrational about other thi...
oh my dog... BOAT PEOPLE TAKEN UR JEERBS
Posted by: ChrisC | July 22, 2010 9:22 PM
Sorry to have read those comments ChrisC. It seems you have nuts similar to the ones we have here. Commenter three could easily be a US right-winger with this quote:
"I never voted for the U.N. to run this country. Did you?"
Posted by: theroachman | July 22, 2010 9:38 PM
Ian Gould @10.
"Keating's successor as Labor leader Bill Hayden failed dismally despite his much more ardent attachment ot the Catholic church."
Nope. Bill Hayden was Bob Hawke's predecessor and he was an atheist. Bob kicked him upstairs to be the Governor General. It is a tradition that the GG is the Chief Scout. He declined the honour because, as an atheist, he could not make the Scout Promise.
We've had atheist leaders before. No doubt we'll have them again. It's not news. The crackpots in the original post aren't news either.
Posted by: Keith Harwood | July 22, 2010 10:52 PM
Yo Aussies: Nalliah is a MAJOR DANGER because he is almost certainly associated with the New Apostolic Reformation group (NAR), which is off-the-charts crazy. His "raising the dead" tactic is classic NAR to a proverbial T.
Keyword search it, and search C. Peter Wagner while you're at it.
NAR has an explicit goal of taking over governments for God. Their affiliates have basically taken over the police force in the Philippines, and have infested various city governments in the US, and are making huge gains in South America. They are in bed with the kill-the-gays people in Uganda, and one of their intellectual roots is with a guy named Rousas Rushdoony who is the founder of modern dominionism (the ideology that claims a mandate to take over governments for God).
If Nalliah gets elected you are well on your way to becoming something roughly similar to Saudi Arabia.
One of the best researchers exposing this stuff is Bruce Wilson, who under his own name on Talk2Action.org and writes as Troutfishing on Daily Kos (he is not concerned with anonymity of his dKos userID). His articles are meticulously documented, and are taken seriously in high places. So look up Bruce's stuff in both places and read up.
And vote as if your lives depend on it.
Posted by: g48 | July 22, 2010 11:07 PM
g48 - Don't panic!!!!!
Nalliah isn't running for any political office. And if he ever tried to he'd come dead last.
Australia simply doesn't have the large-scale demented religiosity that the US has.
Posted by: ambulocetacean | July 23, 2010 12:26 AM
Ohhh... that sounds bad. Double plus bad. Good thing he's not standing as a candidate in the current Federal election (and that he's so unpopular here that the chances of him being elected if he stood are very slim indeed).
I know you mean well, but you really should have an elementary knowledge of Australian politics before you go stumbling around in it.
To be fair, Nalliah once stood as a senate candidate for Family First (he was second on the ticket, which equals unelectable). For those not in the know, Family First are one of a number of small "Christian Democrat" parties in Oz, with strong support in South Australia and Queensland (attracting around 5% of the primary vote... yes 5%) and moderate support in Victoria. They have the well known social conservative and friggin' moron Steve Fielding as a Victorian senator. Even with Family First's level of idiocy, Nalliah was kicked off the ticket and asked to leave the party for the heinous crime of being him.
Posted by: ChrisC | July 23, 2010 12:30 AM
"Why do christians only pay attention to the bible when it falls in line with their prejudices?" Dugglebogey
"Starting, maybe, with some concrete attacks on Australian media outlets that give voice to AGW denialists" Raging Bee
I dunno.. You tell me
Posted by: Buffoon | July 23, 2010 10:44 AM
Christ, can you imagine if someone tried to run for any high political office in America as an open atheist, outside of maybe a handful of overwhelmingly liberal House districts? We have a black president and we've already had a Catholic president. I'm sure we'll have a woman president sooner or later and probably a Jewish president as well. There's really only three groups that I can't imagine ascending to the Presidency in modern America...homosexuals, Muslims and atheists, and even homosexuals will probably get their shot within a few generations. So, it's nice to know where I stand anyway in the minds of most Americans.
I'm very hard to offend, but few things piss me off more than the suggestion or even outright accusation that if you're an atheist, you are therefore not moral. The implication that you can only be moral through religion just pisses me off to no end. I don't smoke or do drugs, I've never been arrested, I've never cheated on anyone...I am moral. Not only is that idea offensive, but it's hilariously stupid in my opinion because it implies that if it weren't for Big Brother lording over (literally) people from Heaven they'd all immediately go raping and pillaging and murdering people. I on the other hand do not need constant supervision.
Posted by: Ryan | July 23, 2010 7:41 PM
"Gillard is not a "candidate", she is the duly elected Prime Minister and holds the Governor-General's commission."
Gillard was elected member for whatever. Cabinet - including the PM - is appointed by the GG, although there are certain traditions (for want of a better word).
Posted by: Paul Murray | July 27, 2010 10:52 PM
Paul Murray:
Lalor, formerly occupied by Barry Jones.
To Tony Abbott's credit, he has not mentioned religion once, except as an answer to a direct question to point out that it's irrelevant.
Having said that, I agree 100% with Roger Scott @27. I've heard essentially nothing about the PM's religious beliefs and affiliation, and much more about her hair colour. That should give you all a clue where Australia's priorities lie.
Posted by: Pseudonym | July 28, 2010 4:18 AM
If Julia was to become PM again she wouldn't be the first atheist PM. There was Bob Hawke and Whitlam and I'm sure Keating wasn't a church-goer. Many Christians don't even go to church or even believe in god. They just grew up Christian so they associate with being one. Some sections of the Christian/church going community are worried about Islam so they want a Christian PM. And what the hell are Christian values anyway? I am an atheist and I work with refugees (most of whom are Assyrian or Chaldean Christians from Iraq), I always obey the law, pay my taxes and respect other peoples' opinions. I think most of these values are actually human values and a lot of "Christian" beliefs are really from the Pagans pre Jesus.
Posted by: Anna | August 5, 2010 12:23 AM