Rhett Allain is an Associate Professor of Physics at Southeastern Louisiana University. He
enjoys teaching and talking about physics. Sometimes he takes things apart and can't
put them back together.This came in the mail.
This is an ad for someone's online homework service (I am not saying who). The important part, that you might not be able to read, says:
"Make Learning Part of the Grade"
I think I can interpret this logo in two different ways. Both of these interpretations are not too helpful.
Isn't that what a grade is supposed to be?
Maybe you already know that I am not a big fan of grades (grades and obedience, the point of grades). So really, what is the purpose of grades? I think of a couple of things, but most people should be able to agree that they somehow (magically) evaluate what a student has learned. Right? So, in this sense, isn't learning already a part of the grade?
Grades as a motivation for learning
The other interpretation is that they are saying - give grade credit for learning. I think that is just plain silly. Using grades as motivation is moving in the wrong direction. Oh, I know what you are saying: if you don't grade it, they won't do it. I can't think of a good analogy for why this is a bad idea. Oh well.
Education
Comments
Grades serve many purposes. For me they worked as a goal that if acheived would lead me to a better career. So good grades = more money.
For others, it serves tp seperate. In large schools, they qualify students as A, B, and C and teach to them at what they deem an appropriate level. C level students leave with a diploma - albeit a far inferior one.
Posted by: Pennsylvania Wedding Photographer | February 8, 2010 11:34 PM
To give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they are saying something like, "We know you're interested in the grade, but why not learn something while you're at it?". This would assume that they believe, as many do, that good grades are not always an indicator of learning.
Posted by: Adam Glesser | February 8, 2010 11:41 PM
>I can't think of a good analogy for why this is a bad idea.
Better than an analogy is evidence - that grades make the motivation extrinsic, when the motivation to learn starts out as intrinsic. Alfie Kohn writes lots of books about this issue; Punished By Rewards is one.
Posted by: Sue VanHattum | February 9, 2010 8:09 AM
Oops, I should have said more. We learn more deeply when the desire for the learning comes from within. Grades are destructive. (I enjoyed getting good grades, when I did. But they funnel us toward someone else's goals.)
Posted by: Sue VanHattum | February 9, 2010 8:12 AM
Is there any experimental evidence to support the claim that extrinsic motivation is a bad? I would guess that for many of us and for our students, extrinsic motivators are sometimes needed to get us interested enough to find intrinsic motivation.
As for MasteringPhysics "make learning part of the grade", one possible (and possibly too generous?) interpretation is that this program (and others on the market) allow one to reward effort, at least to the extent that homework is a proxy for effort.
As for the "if you don't grade it, they won't do it..." argument. My impression is that this is true of very many students. One can (and does, I am sure) discuss whether or not this is good; however, it is unclear to me what we gain by ignoring this behavior. It would be great if intrinsic motivators were enough to insure we all do what we should, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
Posted by: Ian | February 15, 2010 4:50 AM
@Ian,
Honestly, I do not know if there is any experimental evidence that says extrinsic motivation is bad - and it can't be fully bad, can it? I mean I have extrinsic motivation for my kids (by my kids I mean my kids and not my students). My statements in the post are just my opinions based on my personal observations.
Here is my assumption. Students at some point have to be extrinsically motivate. I assume that this at some point switches to intrinsic. When does this switch take place? I have no idea. I assume it is before they get to my class. I don't want to continue feeding them the drug of extrinsic motivation.
One thing I have noticed since I have stopped giving credit for homework (although I still assign, collect and give feedback) is that it is more clear to students why they are doing homework. Before, there was a non-zero set of students that were doing homework just for the grade. I could see this in that they were very focused on the answer for the homework and not the processes. They would even just google to get the answer - that is not learning, but it will get them the grade.
Posted by: Rhett Allain
| February 15, 2010 9:01 PM
If you still collect and comment the homework even though it is not part of the grade, hats off to you! My completely subjective anecdote based assertion is that most of us (faculty types) don't take homework as seriously as we might if it isn't part of the grade. We'd like to think that the students are adults and know that it is best for them to do the homework so they will do it. I'd guess this is true for roughly 20% of students at my institution, though the percentage probably varies greatly by institution, where the student is in their career, and how 'motivating' their instructors are. I agree, though, that giving good feedback is probably just as good a motivator as grading. Would I had a grader!
I agree that at some point students should move from being primarily extrinsically motivated to intrinsically motivated. Again, when this happens is probably(?) depends on institution, major (I hope that physics majors are more intrinsically motivated to learn physics than, say, pre-meds), quality of secondary school, and other factors that are probably obvious to someone who isn't on their first cup of coffee. I do not assume that the students I meet on day 1 of their University career are intrinsically motivated and I think it must then be my responsibility to try to help move them along.
p.s. thanks for the force probe post! I think I may steal, er...adapt, it.
Posted by: Ian | February 16, 2010 2:59 AM
@Ian,
If you do the force-probe lab, I would be interested to hear how well it works out.
Posted by: Rhett Allain
| February 16, 2010 5:05 PM