Effect Measure

An expensive day in Iraq and America

The President’s budget was announced on Monday (see our post here), and as many people know (including us), it is Dead on Arrival. But it is still a significant for its symbolism. This is what the Bush administration wants. They know they won’t get it but they are making a statement. Some statement:


  1. #1 M. Randolph Kruger
    February 8, 2008

    Yep Revere, we could throw them to social programs and create the ideal socialist/communist/progressive state that eventually leads to a takeover and government running everything. 720 million a day, give me a break. That at 365 days a year is $262,800,000,000.00. Little misleading isnt it?

    Total request is for 651 billion dollars.


    Notice that FoxNews is NOT represented here?

    Nearly 200 billion is for veteran healthcare Revere and its a subject that you said needed to be addressed. So they did. In actuality its a decrease on the actual spending for the military but an increase of about 7% for veteran and their care and it gives the military a 3% pay raise. Champus is already notifying that they will be increasing the premiums for the family of four. Big surprise.

    The video is nice. Kind of like the guy being tortured in New York all the while the torturer is talking to his kid on a phone. Willingly tortured. Staged very well. Hmmm…. Now if you turn all that production money to taking care of the poor rather than appealing to the bleeding hearts out there. Wonder what the production costs were?

    Here tell you what, everyone vote for Obombme (reference atom-atically made to the guy that said American troops were bombing and strafing women and children) and then cut the military budget for four years and lets just see what happens. Conduct an experiment for the scientists here. They’ll get all their funding for their socialist healthcare programs and rebloating the Federal government with new workers to maintain those programs and we will get to see if negotiating with terrorists works. Why not? Its worked so well in the past. Ask Clinton about Osama and how they tried to work something out so he wouldnt attack. Really, it did happen with a go between.

    So lets establish a parameter here. If we get hit once and only once with a casualty rate of say more than 500, then no one gets to post on bloated military spending anymore, how many people we kill and we get rid of all of the socialist programs in the US because military spending will REALLY go up then. Kind of like it had to just after 9/11 for various and sundry stupid military programs that allow us to tag the little shitters from Nevada rather than putting guy into a building with a rifle and a 75% chance if you do it three times a day you’ll get hit.

    So lets get on down here and forget all of this new fangled stuff over at the airports, train depots and bridges. New rule will be that if it happens you’ll need to bring your own chutes and body armor to fly. No, you wont have to pass thru the metal detector or take your shoes off. Yes the Kevlar helmets can be put into the overheads.

    How bout it?

    All I hear is the development of a great socialist state. Revere, Is there any point at which you would fund the military? Maybe when you realize that China alone will have you in range in under 10 years? Probably not…

    By threat of THEIR nuclear umbrella and the implication that they can get us and they could, they will challenge us conventionally on the ground with new adventures. I guess that Korea was forgotten, and that a communist regime controls Vietnam and Cambodia?

    Now for me and it IS time, we should establish a withdrawal date… three years? Tell the Iraqi’s to get it together cause we are leaving. Then we request and get airbases in Kuwait, Bahrain and Oman. That puts our little bastard friends the Iranians in easy tactical and strategic strike range of our aircraft. Then we set up deployment positions in Turkey, Jordan and maybe inside of Iraq itself with garrisons of say 15,000 or so. We Kosovo it.

    Then we can back down a bit and shift our attention to other matters like Syria and overthrow of Iran. Face it. Sooner or later our biddy buddies the Iranians are going to set off a bomb and when they do we either take them out or the Israelis will start WWIV when they launch against their nuke facilities. This IS their stated position.

    In the meantime I would trim the Defense budget by about 2% for the next four years and make them live within their means. Revere is right about this part and they can do with much less. The defense contractors see the blood in the water and if you are in a spend mode you simply tell them we aint buying it at that price. Put a price tag budget into place. We need bullets? Sure, then we want this many, that quantity and at no more than this price. It will come in at that dollar figure everytime.

    There is very little shooting going and Gates and Petraeus both agree that we can start slowly beginning the withdrawal now. The Iraqi’s want us to leave and to stay. So we make them start getting their act together.

    The above isnt a slam Revere but the facts are simple we cant cut the real budgets the way you want else they’ll be on us like ugly on an ape. We have to maintain readiness. If we dont have it conventionally we have to go to the nukes. That was Carters big plan and it didnt work because he was such a puss. The Russians could have rolled into Pakistan in a week to ten. Now there was a group that was committing genocide at every turn. That is the sole reason we didnt squawk too much when they got the bomb. The Pakis recognized this when they realized that they couldnt depend on us to be there, so they got the big flyswatter out themselves. Failure to respond will result in many more flyswatters and in the hands of some real nutballs.

    Cant negotiate with a thermonuclear fireball.

  2. #2 revere
    February 8, 2008

    Randy: Let’s cut the red baiting. It’s so 1950s. Now for the numbers. The President is asking $70 billion for one quarter of the Iraq/Afghanistan debacle. Times four that is $280 billion. But that doesn’t count all the knock on costs of the war, some hidden in the $500 billion Pentagon budget, not to mention the VA and other costs associated with it. So it is probably a gross underestimate to say the $280 billion is more like $365 billion (I used that number to make the arithmetic intuitive). That’s a billion dollars a day. This estimate is only .75 billion dollars a day. Or is the President’s budget also misleading by overestimating the cost (not likely).

  3. #3 R. Milton Klinger
    February 8, 2008

    This video is full of inaccuracies and cannot possibly be correct with its numbers! I ran some fact-checking and it only confirmed what I already suspected– this video is simply not true. Yeah, sure, the Iraq War is costing us $760million dollars each day– you know how much UHC would cost? Taxpayers would be hit hardest and I won’t stomach for one minute some little old lady having to fork over her retirement AND savings accounts to Uncle Sam just because some freeloader can’t get a job. Why don’t they just join the military? It would save us all from watching these bleeding heart videos about things no one in the country supports. It is just plain stupid to think that one day in the Iraq War could have been used to set up something like 8,000 schools. Construction alone would cost a fortune, then you have to pay for teachers, utilities, and a whole bureaucracy of administrators and board members! Not to mention new roads, pipelines, airports, and maybe even bicycle lanes for those hippies who cannot be good Americans and drive cars!

    I looked into this matter personally and was shocked at the numbers I pulled out, but then again Congress is controlled by Democrats. Last year something like a 2% raise in R&D for a non-profit independent journalism class in Michigan pulled close to $4million from the General Fund alone. Now those same board members are petitioning for an increase in budget to cope with increased snow fall, calling it “bad weather”. Bad weather? Sounds like an excuse for some hippies to get more money, to me!

    This scenario just illustrates the trend that is everywhere these days. You think Hillary or Obama are going to fix this country? Who said it’s broken? Some left-winger got grilled on FOX last night, calling the USA the Titanic. I can’t believe that these people are even allowed to vote– it’s more like the Hindenburg if you ask me! This country has never soared higher! Of course, we could not have got where we are today if a Democrat were elected. Kerry was a wash. That whole “swift boat” campaign was just an excuse to show off his purple hearts. Al Gore was for keeping the USA in the UN and we all know what a crack-pot, money-sucking, good-for-nothing organization it is! I’ll bet it’s headquartered in some third-world country like Chad or Syria.

    Too many illegals and terrorists are getting into this country. Something like 200,000 illegals are fence-jumping EVERY DAY. How much does THAT cost I wonder? Probably a whole lot more than $760million. Like I already pointed out, the Democrats won’t fix a damn thing. They can’t and they know it; it’s time that we voted another Ronald Reagan. He would get those Iraqi’s to tear down their wall running through Baghdad!

    The Department of Defense is too underfunded these days. I think that we all can agree that the security of our nation has only gotten worse because of terrorism. Iran is working on nukes and you know were they will end up? Afghanistan and Iraq suicide bombers would love to strap a Fat Man or two to themselves and blow up a piece of their American-won freedom. They cannot be trusted to govern themselves until they prove they can handle freedom. It took Britain some convincing, but we kicked out our own invaders so there is no reason to think that the Iraqi’s won’t do the same!

    How about it? Iran might annex Iraq AND Afghanistan if we aren’t vigilant; who knows which way Syria will swing? Saudi Arabia can’t be trusted as far as we can throw them, which isn’t far since they have our oil. It gets me all indignant and pissy reading this garbage about Global Warming,Iran,Iraq, China, UHC, Hillary Clinton, and pretty much everything I personally disagree with; but don’t think for one minute that need to constantly saber-rattle! Hillary won’t get my vote, no sir, and we need to realize that the time for global cooperation is over.

    America needs to win through, no matter the cost!

  4. #4 ipmat
    February 8, 2008

    It’s a public health blog, I know, but….

    I really like the solar panels best. If my SS money is going to be raided over the oil-I mean war-issue, I’d rather see it spent on solar panels. Heck, I’d even PAY for the resulting energy, if my payments went to refund my SS money!

    Solar is green, money doesn’t get sent to the terra-ists, it helps curb (I know, I know, non-existent) global warming. Who could be against it? Well, besides the oil companies and the military-industrial complex.

    Even the intelligent design folks could get on board. Solar panels are REAL intelligent design. See? ID does exist!

  5. #5 M. Randolph Kruger
    February 8, 2008

    Ipmat-Solar panels are greener, but not green enough. They are a hazardous waste when they die. You could load the world with solar panels and then let one or two volcano’s pop and then what. Freezing people and no electricity. But I can tell you its not about the oil anymore they are only putting out about 3.2 million barrels per day. A drop in the bucket.

    Revere, the budget is 651 plus billion. Take the numbers or not. To submit a false budget is a felony…. Now wouldnt you want to impeach GWB?

    It goes to the House floor for trimming in about a month. They wont get that much by a stroke but they are by Republican demand going to keep the pay raises and the veterans health care. Everything else might be coming down a bit. Even the Pentagon is saying some of what you are though. They are being forced to take systems that they dont want and are of limited effectiveness. Guess who the front runners are on that? It aint the Republicans believe it or not. Gates is all over some of the Congressmen over it.

    Bloating the numbers isnt what they need. They need equipment and the start of two to three more ID’s, the Air Force is set except for Star Wars and most of their change is for upgrades to existing platforms. Navy is bringing two more carriers on line so they are good to go. Its a lot of cheese revere. Its not red baiting to say that above. It might have been before 9/11 and/or Korea but no, they are there and they are expending huge numbers for systems that are known to be super effective.

    Anti-satellite technology for starts is one of their big buck expenditures and they now have a missile designed for manned flight that could easily be converted to military use. Red baiting? How about just good old fashioned prudence. When someone is building a rocket in their back yard and delivering things with radioactive symbols on the side to it, call me crazy but I get mighty inquisitive after that.

  6. #6 trog69
    February 9, 2008

    RMK sez: “I looked into this matter personally and was shocked at the numbers I pulled out…”

    No need to wonder where they were pulled out from.

    Unbelievable…spending more than the entire globe all put together, and it’s still not enough for these foreign policy geniuses. Once we’ve turned the rest of the world into a smoking crater, guess who’ll be #1 by default? Yeah, baby!! We’uns will!

  7. #7 trog69
    February 9, 2008

    I think the above were parodies, and I took the bait.

    Hey, I was tired.

  8. #8 revere
    February 9, 2008

    trog69: Only the one marked R. Milton Kllinger was a parody (at least judging from the name) and is such a good one that you have to be sharp to tell it apart from the real thing. My conclusion: Randy’s comments are self-parodies.

  9. #9 M. Randolph Kruger
    February 10, 2008

    How about it Klinger, was that serious or a parody?

    As for Revere, each time the US has been sold down the river with the anti-everything, all encompassing government nuts it has cost us dearly. I am interested though to hear what Revere would have done after 9/11. Would you have attacked Saudi Arabia? Would you have waited for another building or two to go down? Seriously after cutting the military so deep we couldnt go to Darfur either. Please do tell.

    Afghanistan had to be hit and hard. Iraq is where all roads lead to in the Middle East and there is more than enough evidence to have hit Iraq for just being run by an asshole.

    Baghdad-Its a simple run up the main drag to Iran if something goes down. But really, I dont laugh about the noise above at all. Get this one wrong and its going to equate to dead people and this time lots and lots of civilians ours. The military? They wont be there and the peace dividend is over. We are going to get another two heavy divisions and the Dems who get it like Lieberman understand that we are no longer separated by an ocean with our noisy neighbors. Iran launched an orbital missile two days ago. By trajectory and altitude alone they now know they can hit as far west as the east part of the UK. Sling it with the rotation of the earth and Alaska is now in range. Just a matter of time before the balance of terror is tilted and someone does something stupid. With everyone packing nukes the outcome is not in question. I guess that will render the UHC question moot, huh?

    But do keep on harping on the numbers though. 720 million a day. Please, I could take Russia and China both on 720 a day for a year. Putin would be pushing up posey’s. But if we dont have the conventional and someone decides they are the right hand of God and they feel they must, they will launch. Then you will have to decide inside of 30 or so minutes whether we spent enough. If they get thru, we didnt. But I am sure its not going to be us or the Iranians. The Israeli’s are going to take care of business. You might be willing to tolerate Iranian nukes. They are not. .

    Therefore the entire conversation above is moot. They almost did them back in November. Might still have to.

  10. #10 revere
    February 10, 2008

    Randy: If I had been Prez (or perhaps if Gore had been Prez) there might not have been a 9/11 as we wouldn’t have had US troops in Saudi. But if it had happened I would have treated it for what it was, a horrendous attack by criminals. I would have used the usual international machinery for going after criminals as we do for many other crimes. That might not have satisfied the many who cared for nothing but revenge, but it would have menat that the US would still have counted for something in the world, not considered a paraiah nation and have been bankrupted, two consequences of the Bush policy that have devasted us more than any military attack could have. Thanks to Bush, OBL succeeded beyond his wildest expectations in hurting us. If we attack Iran, as you have been promising was “imminent” for a couple of years now, we would be in even worse shape. Bush and your fellow neocons (and make no mistake, you consistently espouse the neocon line) would love to attack Iran. They haven’t because they attacked Iraq and there’s nothing left to give.

    As for $720 million a day, I gave you the budget numbers. So far the real cost of this war, including all the knock on costs, is conservatively estimated to be a trillion dollars. That’s a thousand billion. You don’t believe it is possible to spend that much? I sympathize. I can hardly believe it myself. But apparently we’ve done it. Thanks a lot.

  11. #11 R. Milton Klinger
    February 10, 2008

    Yes sir I exist as a parody and I am proud of it! MRK has inspired my existence by sheer will-power of turning ANY subject matter into a tirade against the Democrats, UHC, democratic candidates, foreigners, Iran/Iraq/NKorea/South America, and government care for those who cannot care for themselves.

    Just like seeing an American hunter shoot a bald eagle, I am awed by this stalwart man’s single-minded, systematic refutation of the principles of international cooperation, human rights with respect to torture, national sovereignty for Middle Eastern countries, and his inexorable use of statistics without any citations. If my own rehetoric was confused with that of MRK, then I salute myself and applaud such an upstanding citizen as MRK for posting whatever comes to mind. For we are alike– we think with our guts, not our heads!

    Lastly, since my cover has been revealed, I have finished and will henceforth post no more against the man who in my mind is forever pictured as Duke Nukem with an American flag planted in the back of some homeless, free-loading, anti-American, illegal immigrant/Iraqi/Iranian/Hillary Clinton.

  12. #12 M. Randolph Kruger
    February 11, 2008

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8422.html 170 billion for Iraq… So where in Hell could those numbers come from. Must be the add ons for all of the earmarks to keep the Dems happy?

    Revere, troops are and have been in Saudi Arabia since the 80’s. Good to know that you keep up with these things. There is a large contingent there right now and we are operating out of their air bases as well. MIH has seen one from space courtesy of yours truly. And we built it.

    I still disagree with your suggestion of knock on numbers. And besides, you have to square that up with a Democrat Congress.

  13. #13 M. Randolph Kruger
    February 11, 2008

    The point of Iraq is now rendered moot. The Iranians have a missile now capable of “drop kicking” a warhead onto New York. I posted on this a couple of days ago and was waiting for info on the ballistic track of the missile. Its throw weight is more than enough to loft a moderate size fission weapon. They fire another one then I expect that we will be visiting them soon.


    All they need to do is use a conventional warhead and use some of their spent nuke fuel and poof it over the east coast. I look for an Israeli response in the very near future as it puts them within the “three nukes and we are done.” scenario.

    Putin is right. We are now in a new arms race. This time around I dont think we will be quite so lucky. .

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