Harun Yahya, aka ‘Adnan Oktar’, aka ‘Pillsbury Doughboy Crotch‘, aka ‘Tader Tot’ is the leader of Islamic Creationism. If you havent heard of him, you arent missing anything– Just replace ‘Jesus’ with ‘Mohammad’ in all of Discovery Institute/Answers in Genesis crap, and thats ‘Islamic Creationism’. Anyway, he thinks hes really important, like all Creationists, so hes challenged Richard Dawkins to a naked Jello wrestling match.

If Dawkins sincerely believes in this theory, we’d like to invite him to Turkey, or else we could come to UK to have a discussion.

Of course, Dawkins has no intention of debating Tader Tot, but Ill do it!

Common Tader! Come to Oklahoma! Creepy Old Islamic Creationist vs Adorable Evilutionist Atheist Jew in Christian Fundyland Oklahoma! We sell tickets, make lots of beer money, good times will be had by all! And since you will have to travel so far, you can choose the flavor of Jello!

Tader! Tader! Tader!


  1. #1 Escuerd
    August 19, 2008

    From what I remember, Harun Yahya basically just plagiarizes Kent Hovind. If one absolutely has to plagiarize someone, there are far better sources.

  2. #2 Brian X
    August 19, 2008

    I object!

    ERV, you don’t strike me as being a Jello-wrestling kind of girl. More like a martial arts match over a pit of hungry alligators.

  3. #3 DataJack
    August 19, 2008

    Get ’em, ERV. However, since he invited Prof. Dawkins to Turkey, he probably can’t afford to go to the UK, much less OK. You might have to use part of the beer cash to reimburse him for his air fare.

  4. #4 Sigmund
    August 19, 2008

    I don’t know. With his new look – http://tinyurl.com/66ugj9 – I reckon Dawkins could take him.

  5. #5 Rystefn
    August 19, 2008

    Wait… so if I pretend to be an Islamic Creationist, can I take up the naked jello wrestling challenge in his place?

  6. #6 Glen Davidson
    August 19, 2008

    Isn’t Yahya in prison? It seems to me that he wouldn’t be out yet.

    I suspect that both men would receive some interesting offers if they’re jello-fighting in a Turkish prison yard.

    Glen Davidson

  7. #7 Sodding Wick
    August 19, 2008

    Why don’t the Christian Creationists debate the Islamic Creationists? That should be a major giggle fest.

  8. #8 Paul Lundgren
    August 19, 2008

    Abbie, do you really expect a fundamentalist Islamist to even LOOK at a girl, let alone jello wrestle one? Come on…

    Now, if he could get Salma Hayek as a substitute…

  9. #9 Raynfala
    August 19, 2008

    I suspect that both men would receive some interesting offers if they’re jello-fighting in a Turkish prison yard.

    “You ever seen a… grown man naked?”

    Sorry, Glen. You mention a Turkish prison, and I have to provide the obligatory Airplane! quote.

  10. #10 john Kwok
    August 19, 2008

    Hi Paul,

    i second your endorsement. You could have Selma Hayek standing in for Harun Yahya and I’ll have Anita Briem fill in for Abbie.



  11. #11 eddie
    August 19, 2008

    Fly Fishing! hehehe

    Lol-dough! Hehehe

    This has to be the silliest man ev-ar.

  12. #12 Jivlain
    August 19, 2008

    “the theory of evolution, which has lately suffered a global collapse”

    You’d have thought I would have heard about a thing like that, what with all those biologists whose blogs I subscribe to and all.

  13. #13 DVMKurmes
    August 19, 2008

    You should let Arnie do it, he is probably smart enough and definitely strong enough. Although, touching a dog might be even worse than touching a girl for a muslim, so maybe not.

  14. #14 MissPrism
    August 20, 2008

    Here’s hoping the match will be televised!
    (Yahya never sent me a copy of his Altas, so I’m sulking at him. I hear it’s a hoot, and I wanted to see the chewing-gum foetus diagram.)

  15. #15 Ranson
    August 20, 2008

    Abby + jello?

    Yet another deluge of marriage proposals in 3…2…1…

  16. #16 Alyce
    August 20, 2008

    Perhaps you’ve already seen this:



  17. #17 Raynfala
    August 20, 2008

    “the theory of evolution, which has lately suffered a global collapse”

    You’d have thought I would have heard about a thing like that, what with all those biologists whose blogs I subscribe to and all.


    The conspiracy goes even deeper than I thought. They got to the blogs, man!!!

  18. #18 John Kwok
    August 20, 2008

    Hi Ranson,

    I already asked Abbie; about a year ago if I’m not mistaken.

    On a more serious note, I think Abbie would knock down Harun Yahya very, very quickly. Why? She has some martial arts training.



  19. #19 Ranson
    August 20, 2008


    You are, by far, not the only one. I’m contractually obligated myself, otherwise I might give it a shot. Alas, but for my beautiful, intelligent wife…

    And thanks for the corrected spelling of our hostess’s name. I always forget it’s more “Hoffman” than “Normal”.

  20. #20 Sili
    August 20, 2008


  21. #21 Chris (in Columbus)
    August 20, 2008

    This is just so disturbing on so many levels…ewwwwwww…jello! Who does that?!

    Sounds rather homoerotic to me. (if you’re into that, or something)

  22. #22 foxfire
    August 20, 2008

    Tader Tot? Perfect!

    Behe…Silly Billy…Is there no stopping you?

    I hope not!

  23. #23 CL
    August 20, 2008

    Let’s have all Creationists, from all religions debate Creationism…I think that would be at least mildly entertaining.

    Thanks for the story ERV.

  24. #24 Sadun Kal
    August 21, 2008

    Being from Turkey myself, I was a little surprised to see this here. I was never interested in Harun Yahya, he’s somehow known in Turkey, but he’s not really popular among people I know. He’s just…there… But I believe he’s intensely influential on some circles.

    Anyway, I think people like him deserve some attention. Religion affects the society and unless religious leaders are shown to be wrong on critical issues like this, they’ll keep repeating what they “know” to be true. And this influences the public too of course. So I don’t know if it’s really the best solution to ignore the creationists. I think that was the main reason why the evolution/intelligent design discussion regarding schools in USA got so big; Scientists arrogantly kept ignoring the ‘stupid’ public. What’s science for, if not for the people? If not to inform the people?

  25. #25 Stacy M.
    August 21, 2008

    Having looked at the ‘Pillsbury Doughboy Crotch’ link (AUGH!! MY EYES!!) I have to observe that either his Depends are on the wrong end, or he needs to double his usage to reliably cover both of his shit dribbling orifices.

  26. #26 John Kwok
    August 21, 2008

    Dear Sadun,

    I agree completely with your observation. What I find most interesting about Harun and his fellow Turkish Islamic creationists is that they appear to be receiving funding from American creationist organizations, including the Discovery Institute.



  27. #27 Sadun Kal
    August 21, 2008

    That’s interesting. I knew that he had some foreign connections, but what and why, I don’t really know…

    Anyway, now I should reveal my real face I guess… What I mentioned above, about not ignoring creationists, is also valid about HIV “denialism”, actually even more valid with them. And yes; I’m a HIV skeptic! One of those “denialists”..! πŸ™‚

    (Ms. Smith knows a little more about how I ended up here. You might also get an idea if you click on my name.)

    I’m currently trying to find people defending the HIV/AIDS ‘consensus’ to come together with “Rethinking AIDS” and especially “The Perth Group” to discuss the points which are still not clear. Preferrably a public debate, filmed on video and all that. I already attempted to send an email to IQ2US, but I doubt anything will come out of that. You think anyone here can help me with finding willing people for such a debate? I’m pretty sure that the other side is absolutely open for any sincere communication attempt.

    So I’d really appreciate some help. Because until the mainstream scientists like you people really take their time to seriously debate the rethinkers, I will have to spend the rest of my life trying to fix this lack of communication… πŸ™
    After reviewing the Perth Group’s arguments, I don’t consider the science settled.

  28. #28 Sadun Kal
    August 21, 2008

    By the way, to clarify; I don’t even know much about Horrowitz. In my opinion he can’t even be called a “denialist”. So I’m talking about different kind of “denialists”, I suppose many of you here are more familiar with Horrowitz than Eleni Papadopulos(Perth Group). But debating with Dr. Papadopulos can make your problems with Dr. Horrowitz also disappear, so it’s a better investition and therefore one more reason to help me. Thanks and sorry for offtopic…

  29. #29 Tyler DiPietro
    August 21, 2008

    I love the smell of denialists hijacking completely unrelated discussions with their woo in the afternoon.

  30. #30 Dustin
    August 21, 2008

    I think the mature and sensible thing to do is to respond to denailist posts with the name of a dead denialist and the cause of his/her death.

    Caaaaasper the friendly ghost, the friendliest ghost you know…

  31. #31 John Kwok
    August 21, 2008

    HI Sadun Kal,

    Hate to disappoint you but HIV/AIDS epidemiology is as well established as the modern theory of evolution. If you have objections, then I suggest you should raise them with Abbie, but I am certain she’d regard your HIV/AIDS denial position as one that is quite risible.

    Respectfully yours,


  32. #32 Sadun Kal
    August 21, 2008

    It wasn’t completely unrelated, the connection is obviously there and it wasn’t planned from the beginning to be redirected to HIV/AIDS, if you can believe that. Also, I think my request was prefectly plausible. I suggest that you people really observe your reactions to my request, is that really how you want to treat someone with unanswered questions? By ridiculing? How is that science?

    John’s reaction was obviously more mature by the way, and I thank him for that. I contacted Abbie yesterday, either she’s reading the stuff I wrote or…something else, I don’t know. And you’re all welcome to read them and leave comments too, just click on my name. Please don’t write anything before you read it all, otherwise it’s likely to be a waste of time.

    I’ve been examining this debate for months now, and I always found the scientific arguments against the Perth Group to be too weak. (Ad hominems are always pretty strong though.) So unless I can get a satisfying, scientific argument from the mainstream scientific community, I’ll keep supporting the rethinkers right to speak and get funding for experiments and I’ll keep encouraging the consensus defenders to debate.

    -If we keep talking about this here, it’ll really become completely unrelated to the topic, so you’re welcome to continue this on my blog if you wish, but please, really read before you write anything. Thank you.-

  33. #33 John Kwok
    August 22, 2008

    Dear Sadun,

    I see my new “buddy” DaveScot Springer is baffled by the evolutionary connotations with respect to recently published research on ERVs:


    Hope Abbie picks up on this and does a great job in “dissecting” DaveScot.



  34. #34 Josh
    August 22, 2008

    You’d have thought I would have heard about a thing like that, what with all those biologists whose blogs I subscribe to and all.

    I think it’s kind of like all of those pesky “gaps” they keep “finding” in the theory (and then never, never, ever, show the rest of us).

  35. #35 Sadun Kal
    August 22, 2008

    Dear John,

    I didn’t get what your link has anything to do with me? Was that a typo or…what should I think?

  36. #36 John Kwok
    August 22, 2008

    Dear Sadun,

    It’s a not so subtle hint to you that you could find yourself as laughable as DaveScot Springer is if you continue denying the validity of current HIV/AIDS epidemiology. I hope you’ll bear that in mind.


  37. #37 Sadun Kal
    August 22, 2008

    Dear John,

    Well then, I guess you can interpret my confusion as a not so subtle hint that I disagree with you on that. πŸ™‚

    I also would like to remind that spending time with AIDS denialists should be more beneficial for you than spending time with evolution denialists, since -allegedly- AIDS denialism costs millions of lives in comparison to innocent evolution denialism. My invitation still stands if you want to answer any questions. Because as I said, I was never able to come across any satisfying argument against the Perth Group’s… You can easily read them for yourself if you were to go to the bottom of my blog post, which you can reach by clicking on my name.

    Otherwise I’ll have to keep taking lives, do you really want that? πŸ™‚


  38. #38 John Kwok
    August 22, 2008

    Dear Sadun,

    Okay, I’ll just agree to disagree respectively. I know you won’t act like the beserk IDiot which Dustin is doing so now in the thread on Reverend Warren’s “chat” with Obama and McCain.



    P. S. But be forewarned that not every one will be as courteous as yours truly.

  39. #39 Jared
    August 22, 2008

    Sudan, there is no debate, you’re trying to make one with only a small score of testimonials and no real evidence to back up the claim. The only arguments they have against “AIDS” itself is a directly semantic one. Please do YOUR research.

  40. #40 Dustin
    August 23, 2008

    I know you won’t act like the beserk IDiot which Dustin blah blah blah

    You seem to be laboring under the delusion that everyone who disagrees with anything you say must also be an ID proponent. Fuck but you say dumb shit.

  41. #41 Sadun Kal
    August 23, 2008


    As I said, I did a lot of research and never could come across anything that makes the arguments of the Perth Group wrong or insignificant. And I don’t get what makes you think that it’s semantic, they argue very strongly about particular complications. It has directly to do with the reality.

    That there is no debate is because of over-confident mainstream scientists, who rather don’t “waste” their time debating. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the science is settled, it just shows that the scientists are, which is never a good sign…

  42. #42 ERV
    August 23, 2008

    Dear Arrogant Little Fuck–
    1. This is your thread. This is not your thread.

    2. You too appear to have difficulties using the ‘internet’. Please follow the instructions I gave Arrogant Fuck #2. Those instructions also work on this ‘website’. If you cant figure out how to use the ‘search features’ on these two ‘websites’, Im sure the many computer geniuses on this website will be happy to help you.

    Stupid little shit cant even be bothered to search for ‘HIV’ or ‘retrovirus’ on the website he has to bitch on. Fucking idiot.

  43. #43 John Kwok
    August 23, 2008

    My dear Sadun,

    Now that Abbie has spoken, I strongly suggest you depart immediately unless you wish to continue looking as foolish as you most certainly are in your espousal of HIV/AIDS denial. As I warned you before, the epidemiology of HIV/AIDS is well established.

    Run along now and play with Dustin. I think he’s lonely and desirous of company.

    Respectfully yours,


  44. #44 Dustin
    August 23, 2008

    Dearest Kwok of Shit:

    Why don’t you root around on the internet for a while (that’s what you’re best at) and find anywhere I’ve advocated Intelligent Design. Or have you once again opened that gaping maw of yours to dispense unsubstantiated and incorrect bullshit? Put up or shut up, dipshit.

    All My Love,

  45. #45 Sadun Kal
    August 23, 2008

    Dear Abbie and John,

    Both are not my threads. I clearly invited people to keep discussing this on my blog(#32), but people chose to respond here. Since you didn’t get angry at others keep talking about this subject here, I hoped you wouldn’t have any bias against me to keep talking here either.

    If anyone wants to continue this, then please continue on my blog. If you don’t want to continue, then please stop. If people keep responding to me here, then I’ll keep responding to them here, too. But I hope that won’t be the case, for Abbie’s health…

    Best regards,

    P.S. Searching for “Perth” or “Eleni” or “Valendar” return no results, that’s what I’m looking for, and that’s why I asked for help. I don’t care about Horrowitz or Dustin, just science…

  46. #46 ERV
    August 23, 2008

    Stupid arrogant fuck– There are ~50 hits for ‘Perth’ ‘HIV’ on SciBlogs. Are you new to The Internet?

    And if you want to ‘discuss’ The Science(TM), then this is your thread. Im sure a film student who has read about HIV on the internet will have no trouble describing that image to everyone. I mean, our summer undergrad could. If you couldnt explain a babys experiment, you would be a little bitch, right?

    Your next post on my blog will describe that image. Ready? Set? GO!

    Have at thee!!

  47. #47 Sadun Kal
    August 23, 2008

    Alright, we’ll continue then.

    I meant ‘no results’ specifically for your blog. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. But nevertheless, I still couldn’t find what I’m looking for: Something that proves the Perth Group’s arguments wrong/meaningless, could be my incompetence though.

    I can assure you that I have almost no idea what that picture is supposed to mean, but I never claimed to know anything like that anyway. That’s why I contacted you in the first place; to get help. I’m just trying to understand this thing with help from scientists. I’m only the communicator, trying to get you scientists together to clarify the seemingly vague issues.

    So I’d be glad if you could tell me if and how that picture disproves the Perth Group’s arguments. Or if that picture doesn’t really have much to do with it as I suspect, I’d appreciate if you could present me an information which achieves that from your point of view. After we can find a satisfactory argument, the next step would be to ask the Perth Group and others what they think about it. I think we can make some progress that way, and that’s possibly the only way…

    Or you can get rid of “the messenger” and contact the Perth Group(or Rethinking AIDS) directly. They are pretty decent people as far as I know. As long as you can slightly limit your amount of disrespect or at least hide it a little, you should be able to get a clear answer in a few weeks. (Although they didn’t answer my last email, I suspect the reason for that was because the answers to my questions were available elsewhere. Or maybe they’re simply too busy nowadays.)

    What do you think?

  48. #48 John Kwok
    August 23, 2008

    Dear moronic Dustin:

    I think I’ve said that your behavior reminds me most of my Uncommon Dissent “pals” DaveScot Springer and Bill Dembski. I didn’t say you were an IDiot creo; I just said you acted like one. Keep this up and I may ask Abbie if she can “flush” you permanently.

    Last, but not least, jerk off….. thanks for demonstrating that you and Sadun deserve each other (Though now that I think of it, even though I detest Sadun’s understanding of HIV/AIDS, at least he knows how to act in a responsible adult manner.).

    Now run along and try to learn a little bit about post-World War II Western European history.

    With best wishes for your success in assuming room temperature soon,

    John Kwok

  49. #49 Sadun Kal
    August 23, 2008

    If you decide to contact them directly, could you please send me a copy of the email? I’d be very interested. πŸ™‚
    You know my email adress…

  50. #50 Dustin
    August 23, 2008

    What does European history have to do with anything? You said “nations do not attack nations”. When that was proved to be incorrect, you said, “European Nations do not attack European Nations”. When that was shown to be irrelevant, you said “democracies do not attack democracies”.

    You’re a swirling vortex of stinking red herrings, disingenuous revisions, straw men, and outright stupidity. Pull your head out of your ass.

  51. #51 Dustin
    August 23, 2008

    Dear Kwok of Shit:
    You wrote:

    Last, but not least, jerk off….. thanks for demonstrating that you and Sadun deserve each other

    This, among your many other posts, makes me think that the word “demonstrate” means what you think it means. Allow me to illustrate:
    The HIV denialist likes you more than he likes me.
    You like the HIV denialist more than you like me.
    I do not like either of you.

    There is a pod of mental dysfunction here, and I’m not one of the peas in it.

    Your BFF,

  52. #52 Dustin
    August 23, 2008

    makes me think that the word “demonstrate” doesn’t mean what you think it means

    Inigo Montoya fail.

  53. #53 Sadun Kal
    August 23, 2008

    I don’t dislike you Dustin, I just have no idea what you’re talking about or who you are. So I chose to ignore you assuming you’re irrelevant, didn’t mean to offend you or anything. And I’m not a denialist by the way, I wonder what made you say that… (I don’t really wonder, I have some theories.)

  54. #54 Sadun Kal
    August 23, 2008

    By the way, I just noticed that my comment at #41 in response to #39 should have begun with “Jared” and not “Justin”, it appears that I combined Jared with Dustin, sorry if it caused any confusion.

  55. #55 Dustin
    August 24, 2008


  56. #56 Truth0r
    August 24, 2008

    What a loving following you’ve managed to create, Abbie. The nerdy sarcasm is just precious.

    Abbie wrestling in jello FTW! RawrrrRRRr!

  57. #57 ERV
    August 24, 2008


    ERV: Since you know so much about HIV, why dont you explain this basic image to everyone?

    Arrogant Fuck: …….. Wull gorsh golly ERV! I didnt mean nuthin by it! I is just here to learn!

    ERV: LOL. Get the fuck out.

  58. #58 Sadun Kal
    August 24, 2008

    I must admit that I had a tiny bit of hope -I’m an optimistic guy-, but wasn’t surprised at your reaction in the end… I guess it won’t work like this. I won’t waste my time here anymore, sorry to have driven you mad.

    One last thing; you misquoted/misrepresented/attacked me. Why do think that is? :
    15 Common Defense Mechanisms

    No matter what happens in the future, this will be an interesting conversation to remember… πŸ™‚ Now I’m going to fulfill your demand… Bye.

  59. #59 sami
    March 30, 2009

    take care of yourself. because harun yahya will crush you with his Creationist book. Evolution is a deceit. He proved it to all world.

  60. #60 ERV
    March 30, 2009


    Only 8 months late to the party!

    You will notice that Hayrun Poobahmamu has yet to respond to my challenge, sami. If you could encourage him to get a move on, I would be most appreciative. The Jello is starting to dry out…

  61. #61 dinckok
    March 30, 2009

    Harun Yahya is a very important author. His intellectual struggle against materialism and darwinism has a great impact around the world. The “Atlas of Creation” has been delivered to all the important people and the professors of the world. In the “Atlas of Creation” there are photograps of hundreds of fossils that proove that they have no difference with their present status. Harun Yahya also put forward the evolution deceit and how the world had been fooled with the lie of evolutin. Harun Yahya also prooved by the words of world leaders, tyrants that darwinism is the cause of all the world wars, disasters, racism, cruelty, starvations. Everyone must know that 60 million people had died in the world war. And there are still people who are oppressed. Evolution is a big lie that has not even one scientific proof.

  62. #62 Tommykey
    March 30, 2009

    Harun Yahya also prooved by the words of world leaders, tyrants that darwinism is the cause of all the world wars, disasters, racism, cruelty, starvations.

    Really? Even the ones that happened before Darwin published “On The Origin of Species”?

  63. #63 phantomreader42
    March 30, 2009

    dinckok, creationist moron @ #61:

    The “Atlas of Creation” has been delivered to all the important people and the professors of the world.

    Who laughed their asses off when they saw that Yahya had classified FISHING LURES as new organisms! You and Yahya are dumb enough to think fishing lures are alive! That’s dumber than some FISH!

    crazy creationist cult conspiracy crap from dumbass dinckok:

    Harun Yahya also prooved by the words of world leaders, tyrants that darwinism is the cause of all the world wars, disasters, racism, cruelty, starvations.

    Oh, so your hero Yahya proved that Darwin used a magical time machine to go back thousands of years before he was born and create every problem in the world? Are you really stupid enough to believe that? Oh, yeah, you’re a Yahya sycophant, of COURSE you’re that fucking stupid!

    It’s amazing how creationists whine and babble about “darwinism” when they are the ones who worship Darwin and attribute reality-warping magical powers to him.

    June 25, 2009

    thanks to the works of Harun yahya…..

    June 25, 2009

    thanks to the works of Harun yahya…..

  66. #66 Shrunk
    June 25, 2009

    ….we now know that fishing lures did not evolve.

  67. #67 Shrunk
    June 25, 2009

    ….we now know that fishing lures did not evolve.

  68. #68 Abu AFak
    July 11, 2009

    I thought you’d get a visit from Spamhed Moidu. He is a cultist of Adnan Oktar’s with a homoerotic crush on his messiah.
    They never learn these Yahyaists. But then again they never had much learning to begin with, especially in the biological sciences.
    Oktar is now in prison for trying to blackmail a woman to sleep with him. It shows how unappealing Oktar is when it comes to personality.

  69. #69 beetlenutz
    August 13, 2009

    Evolution? balls..from the comments here. we are still stuck at being warring chimpz.

  70. #70 Adnan Oktar
    March 27, 2010

    Evolution has been observed ..from the comments here by Harloon Yahoo’s witless lackeys, they are still stuck being medieval moronic muslims.

    Posted by: beetlenutz | August 13, 2009 6:38 AM

    There, fixed it for you beetlenutz.
    Can one of Yahhahahaaa’s cultists tell me which prison he is in, so that I can send him a copy of The Gretest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins. Yahoo will be pleased to know that Dawkins mentions him and his Atlas of Creation. Unfortunately Yahooya gets a real drubbing from Dawkins, so there isn’t much comfort for Yayhoo and his little fantasy of world domination.

  71. #71 shareena Mohammed
    May 22, 2010


    Today your comments brings you laughter
    But what deed has thy treacherous hand send forth for tomorrow. They day which turn the hairs of the Godless Grey.

    Shareena Mohammed

  72. #72 Walter Bishop
    November 22, 2011

    Shareena Mohammed, your tyrannical sky fairy AKA Allah does not exist. If he did I’d kick his wimpy ass and urinate on his dead body.

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