OEC & YEC>IDC

Young Earth Creationism is quite possibly the stupidest thought ever thunk-ed. Its not just about the earth being 6,000 years old– It involves talking snakes and Noahs Ark and zombies and all sorts of crazy ass shit. Old Earth Creationism has all of the crazy ass shit, minus the 6,000 year old Earth.

YEC and OEC are fantastically stupid ideas.

But they are still ‘better’ than Intelligent Design Creationists.

Why?

They try to perform science. Sure its border-line retarded, but at least they are trying. I was perusing my blog-fodder folder last night and found a nice entry at Middle-Aged-White-Mans-Reasons-To-Believe:

Since no scientist knows everything about any particular system, no scientific model can offer a perfect explanation. Scientific understanding advances, however, as different scientific models compete with one another. The model that offers the best explanation for a particular set of phenomena and that is most successful in predicting future scientific discoveries is judged to be closest to offering a truthful description. The scientific community retains such a model for further development and refinement. Models that fail to provide a satisfactory explanation and especially fail to predict future scientific discoveries are rejected.

Scientists will retain a failed model, however, if there is no superior model to take its place. This is why it’s typically fruitless for Christians to point out all the flaws and failures in the evolutionists’ explanation for the origin and history of life. Most evolutionists are already aware of the shortcomings in their model. Nevertheless, they will not abandon the model until they first see a superior model to take its place.
It’s for this reason that the Reasons To Believe scholar team refrains from “evolution bashing” and instead focuses its efforts on developing a positive case for biblical creation through a detailed, comprehensive, and predictive scientific model.

Hugh Ross is a Creationist twat, but even he understands a fact Intelligent Design Creationists cant seem to grasp. A competitive scientific theory is more than just bitching about evolution. I was really excited to read about this ‘detailed, comprehensive, and predictive scientific model’ Ross thought up:

My new book, Creation as Science, summarizes our testable creation model and includes an appendix (F) where I make 90 predictions of what scientists will discover in their future research and contrast our predictions with those arising from three other creation/evolution models. BUY MY BOOK! BUY MY BOOOOOOOOK!!!!!!

AWWWWW!!! Dammit!

Comments

#1 J-Dog
August 29, 2008

I want, no I NEED your comments about Sarah Palin as McSame’s VP choice!!!

I have seen it reported that she is a Home-Schoolin’ Mom and a YEC. FTK as VP???!!

I’ll hang up and listen to my answer.
#2 Draconiz
August 29, 2008

Hello ERV!

Nice article, not only you but the YECs are already at his throat.I want to hear your opinion about Palin also.
#3 Josh
August 29, 2008

Ah, c’mon. I still kind of like Hugh Ross. His group was the only one (among the creationists) to call “bullshit” on Ben STein’s movie by claiming that they’ve never been discriminated against and the scientists have always been glad to hear their presentations.

He does give a summary of his “creation model” on his website.

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/testablecreationsummary.shtml
#4 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear J-Dog,

Unlike Bobby Jindal – who is a fellow alumnus of my college (along with Ken Miller) – Palin hasn’t lobbied to have her religious views imposed on the state of Alaska’s public school science curricula (Jindal vowed to have ID inserted in his state’s curricula when he was running for governor.). That gives me another reason to support John McCain instead of Caesar Barack Obamaus (His nomination rally last night bore uncomfortable reminders of those organized on behalf of Il Duce and Die Fuhrer last century. It’s a pity Leni Riefenstahl wasn’t available to direct a sequel of her “Triumph of the Will” as a superb piece of cinematic propaganda for Howard Dean and the Democratic National Committee.).

Regards,

John
#5 Doog
August 29, 2008

Your article reminds me of a picture I once saw that said “Science: You’re Doing It Wrong”.

As someone who is studying paleontology, the short comings of science are nothing new to me. Sure we don’t know the answer now, but just give it time. I mean, 6 years ago we had no idea where tyrannosaurs have come from. But in those six years we have found older and older ancestors to the group (the oldest one, 200 million years old, was recently found in Poland). And since we are working with things dead for millions of years, it’s no wonder that we have made more than a few errors (case in point: “Brontosaurus”).

Of coarse, it’s just easier to say “god did it”.
#6 Tex
August 29, 2008

Dr. Ross and his colleague Dr. Rana presented their model at my university a couple of years ago. It was a total joke (except that many of the locals fell for it and bought many copies of their execrable books). Few if any of the ‘predictions’ of their model distinguish creationism from mainstream science in any way. Most of them are simply predictions that what scientists have discovered in the recent past will continue to gain strong support as more data come in. They seem to have no clue that predictions should be at least somehow related to the proposition you are trying to support. Normally, I would dismiss this a cargo-cult science, but both Ross and Rana know enough science to know how it works. Instead, I believe they are simply preying on the gullibility of the faithful.

Below are a very few of the many Ross and Rana ‘predictions.’ They all sound very sciencey, but they don’t predict anything we don’t already know, and none of them are useful for distinguishing between real science and the crap they peddle.

Assertion: Big Bang cosmic creation models offer a uniquely reasonable explanation for the origin and structure of the universe.

Prediction: Evidences for the Big Bang cosmic creation event will become more numerous and compelling as new research is completed and new discoveries are made.

Assertion: Given that the theory of general relativity accurately describes the dynamics of our physical universe, the space-time theorems of general relativity dictate that all matter, energy, space dimensions, and time itself came into existence at a distinct time in the finite past (T=0).

Prediction: The space-time theorems of general relativity will continue to receive additional scientific confirmation as new research is completed and future discoveries are made.

Assertion: The universe was created (came into existence) approximately 13.7 billion years ago.

Prediction: Astronomers? measurements of the universe?s age will continue to become more consistent and precise, indicating the universe is billions of years old (~13.7 billion years old).

Assertion: The universe has been continually expanding for the past ~13.7 billion years.

Prediction: Cosmic expansion rate measurements will become increasingly more consistent and accurate as new measurement technologies/methods are developed and additional research is conducted.
#7 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Hi all (and this is especially to my “buddy” Dustin),

You can be a staunch, diehard opponent of the Dishonesty Institute and its pathetic band of mendacious intellectual pornographers like Luskin and Dembski, be an avowed supporter of evolutionary biology and, in general, sound mainstream science, and still be a conservative willing to vote for the McCain-Palin ticket. There are other, more prominent, conservative voices who have been harsh critics of the DI’s shenanigans and supportive of evolutionary biology, etc. like Washington Post columnists Charles Krauthammer and George Will, National Review columnist John Derbyshire, and biologist Paul Gross, co-author of “Creationism’s Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design”.

If you are unable to accept this observation of mine, then please refrain from vehement, vituperative attacks upon me. Spend your time more appropriately instead by hurling insults at the Dishonesty Institute.

Respectfully yours,

John
#8 StuV
August 29, 2008

John, you Godwinned in your first post. Pathetically so, I might add. Your work here is done; plenty of time for you kindly go out and buy a damned clue.

Tool.
#9 StuV
August 29, 2008

You can be a staunch, diehard opponent of the Dishonesty Institute and its pathetic band of mendacious intellectual pornographers like Luskin and Dembski, be an avowed supporter of evolutionary biology and, in general, sound mainstream science, and still be a conservative willing to vote for the McCain-Palin ticket.

You can be a supporter of evolutionary biology by voting for a creationist!

Umm…
#10 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Hi StuV:

I look first at a person’s qualifications before I vote. I vote frequently for Republican, Democratic, Libertarian and Conservative candidates.

You, on the other hand, are yet another blind, intellectually-challenged liberal fool of the kind I have found lurking inside the Dishonesty Institute who claim to be “conservative Christians and Jews”.

My work here isn’t done. Yours is, and therefore, you shall depart immediately from whence you came: Mordor.

John
#11 StuV
August 29, 2008

You, on the other hand, are yet another blind, intellectually-challenged liberal fool of the kind I have found lurking inside the Dishonesty Institute who claim to be “conservative Christians and Jews”.

Wait, what? There are intellectually-challenged liberal fools in the DI?

Also, do you even know Godwin’s law?

How much have you been drinking?
#12 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear StuV,

Am going to stay on topic on this thread now, but was sidetracked.

Having read in the past “scientific literature” from both Young Earth Creationists and Old Earth Creationists, I have yet to read any that would pass peer review in notable journals like Science, Bulletin of the Geological Society of America, Geology, Paleobiology, Evolution, Genetics, etc. They simply do a better job – YECs and OECs – of “scientific” flimflam than the Dishonesty Institute.

John
#13 rob
August 29, 2008

John,

anyone who’s capable of writing bullshit like “…Caesar Barack Obamaus (His nomination rally last night bore uncomfortable reminders of those organized on behalf of Il Duce and Die Fuhrer …” deserves any vehement, vituperative attacks which come their way.
#14 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear rob,

I’ve heard of others – including one commentator on either CNN or Fox – who thought Leni Riefenstahl should have filmed last night’s nomination rally (Do you know which famous politician she worked for back in the 1930s? In spite of that, I’ve heard that actress Jodie Foster would love to make a movie – and portray her – in a film about her life.).

I still think that last night’s rally reminded me of footage of mass rallies in support of Il Duce, Die Fuhrer and Emperor Showa (Japanese for “peace” ) back in the 1930s.

John
#15 Dustin
August 29, 2008

I swear Kwok sends half of his paycheck up his nose.

You, on the other hand, are yet another blind, intellectually-challenged liberal fool of the kind I have found lurking inside the Dishonesty Institute who claim to be “conservative Christians and Jews”.

Where the fuck did that come from? I don’t see anywhere StuV said anything about liberalism or advocated a liberal policy of any kind. What I do see, however, is that he has expressed some well earned confusion over your endorsement of the pro-ID McCain and his pro-ID VP nomination, and now you’ve not only decided that the head scratching your bizarre position has earned is radicall liberal, but that the conservatives at the DI are also liberals.

Hi all (and this is especially to my “buddy” Dustin)

Yeah… I wasn’t even posting in this thread. o_0
#16 StuV
August 29, 2008

By the way… “Die Fuhrer”? Disregarding the fact that you’re missing an accent, “Die” would be… umm… Eva Braun?

German… SIE TUN ES FALSCH.
#17 Dustin
August 29, 2008

Obama is like Hitler? Brain damaged little freeper jackoff. *rolleyes*
#18 writzer
August 29, 2008

John:

That would be “Der Fuhrer”–masc. (with an unlaut over the u, but none’s available.
#19 StuV
August 29, 2008

I’ve heard of others – including one commentator on either CNN or Fox – who thought Leni Riefenstahl should have filmed last night’s nomination rally

Well, if A commentator on either bastion of independent journalism said so, I stand humbled and corrected.

Seriously kids, this is why you don’t drink the bong water.
#20 StuV
August 29, 2008

writzer, I’ve got spares: ��

Der F�hrer.
#21 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear StuV,

If I was a documentary film maker filming last night’s rally (or a photographer), I would have used Riefensthal’s close up wide angle shots to capture the rally’s emotional intensity. All that was missing was shouts of people screaming Banzai (oh, wait, they did. It was Obama.).

I didn’t need approval from that CNN or Fox commentator to make the connections I made between last night’s rally and those orchestrated by 20th Century totalitarian dictators. Am sure we weren’t the only one ones who saw obvious parallels with Riefenstahl and her films “Triumph of the Will” and “Olympia” (which was about the 1936 Olympics, held, guess where?).

John
#22 StuV
August 29, 2008

So let me recap, John. Is this your reasoning?

Obama is popular.

so

Obama had a large, emotional rally.

and

Hitler had large, emotional rallies.

thus

Obama is a totalitarian dictator and probably a fascist

which means that

I must vote for a geriatric weasel with Alzheimers and an anger-management problem without a single principle who will continue the smashingly successful policies of the past eight years, who just picked a vapid creationist as running mate, so that we can do away with reproductive rights, start a few more wars and finish bankrupting the country.

Am I close?
#23 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

PS. My comparison with rally footage of 20th Century totalitarian dictators may be apt simply because Obama has threatened legal action against any one seeking to dig deeper into his past. Why? What does Obama have to hide that may be incriminating? Moreover, if he is elected President of the USA, would he act upon these threats via his attorney general’s office in the Department of Justice? Wouldn’t this be seen as a gross abuse of power, and one that’s potentially impeachable?
#24 writzer
August 29, 2008

Thanks, StuV. I’ll save them up für ein rainy day.
#25 writzer
August 29, 2008

Wow. That didn’t work. Looks like der rainy day is hier.
#26 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear StuV,

See my most recent post. Obama may have more in common with Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito (Showa) than you are willing to concede.

John
#27 Dustin
August 29, 2008

My comparison with rally footage of 20th Century totalitarian dictators may be apt simply because Obama has threatened legal action against any one seeking to dig deeper into his past. Why? What does Obama have to hide that may be incriminating?

Wow. Just… wow.
#28 Dustin
August 29, 2008

See my most recent post. Obama may have more in common with Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito (Showa) than you are willing to concede.

Remember when you were stuck on repeat, shouting “ZOMG READ HISTORY!1!”? You should probably take your own advice.

Damn, son, I knew you were a little fucked in the head, but this is Michelle Malkin grade trolling.
#29 StuV
August 29, 2008

What does Obama have to hide that may be incriminating?

Ayers? Rezko? Wright? Oh, wait. No, that all came out. And is all piffle.

John, of COURSE Obama doesn’t want anyone to know that he was genetically engineered by Nazi scientists to give big, emotional rallies. Sheesh.

would he act upon these threats via his attorney general’s office in the Department of Justice? Wouldn’t this be seen as a gross abuse of power, and one that’s potentially impeachable?

You can say this with a straight face after the past 8 years?
#30 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear Dustin,

Am still amazed that last night’s film which “introduced” Obama had relatively little footage about him as a kid. Nothing to remind viewers that he had spent his youth in Indonesia. I find that dishonest. So is his denial that he never was a Muslim, when he did attend Muslim services in an Indonesian public school.

I’m also troubled by his associations with former terrorist William Ayers and convicted Chicago businessman Tony Rezko; maybe more so than his “friendship” with Reverend Wright.

Who is Barack Obama? I think Charles Krauthammer said it best here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/20/AR2008032003017.html

(Krauthammer, along with George Will, was the Washington Post columnist praising Judge John E. Jones and condemning both the Dover Area School District Board and Intelligent Design creationism immediately after Jones issued his verdict in the 2005 Kitzmiller vs. Dover Area School District trial.)

John
#31 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear StuV,

Yes I can say it with a straight face, especially when Rumseld “persecuted” my cousin, US Army chaplain Captain James Yee, falsely accusing him of treason, simply because he was the Muslim chaplain at Camp Gitmo seeking better treatment for the Muslim terrorists imprisoned there.

John
#32 Dustin
August 29, 2008

Am still amazed that last night’s film which “introduced” Obama had relatively little footage about him as a kid

Clearly because they didn’t want us to see him goosestepping around in his Hitler youth uniform. You’re on the sauce, Kwok.

Nothing to remind viewers that he had spent his youth in Indonesia.

So?

(Krauthammer, along with George Will, was the Washington Post columnist praising Judge John E. Jones and condemning both the Dover Area School District Board and Intelligent Design creationism immediately after Jones issued his verdict in the 2005 Kitzmiller vs. Dover Area School District trial.)

I see you’re still struggling with the concept of “relevance”. Let me give you a quick refresher:

who is a fellow alumnus of my college (along with Ken Miller)

Irrelevant.

I vote frequently for Republican, Democratic, Libertarian and Conservative candidates.

Irrelevant.

I’ve heard of others – including one commentator on either CNN or Fox – who thought Leni Riefenstahl should have filmed last night’s nomination rally (Do you know which famous politician she worked for back in the 1930s? In spite of that, I’ve heard that actress Jodie Foster would love to make a movie – and portray her – in a film about her life.).

The first part is anecdotal at best. The second is irrelevant.

I hope this helps.
#33 StuV
August 29, 2008

Rezko:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/01/rezko/

Ayers:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html

I see the light now. Phew. That was close. Let’s all vote for Keating Five McCain.
#34 StuV
August 29, 2008

Yes I can say it with a straight face, especially when Rumseld “persecuted” my cousin, US Army chaplain Captain James Yee, falsely accusing him of treason, simply because he was the Muslim chaplain at Camp Gitmo seeking better treatment for the Muslim terrorists imprisoned there.

Also, I had a peanut butter sandwich yesterday.

Holy Non-Sequitur, Batman.
#35 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

My dear favorite schmuck Dustin,

Thanks for proving again that you’re a douche bag schmuck.

I think Obama didn’t want to remind people of his “foreign” attire or “foreign” upbringing in Indonesia which I think is absolutely ludicrous. I think most Americans would have been more understanding and accepting of it. Same is true if he was indeed a Muslim in his youth. So what? Just be honest about it, instead of hiding it, and then threatening those interested in unveiling it with threats of legal persecution and other forms of censorship (Behavior that’s more reminiscent of a crazy Roman emperor like Caligula or Nero than someone who professes to be the next, best hope for America. Hence, that’s the reason why I think of Obama as Caesar Barack Obamaus.).

Don’t tell me that mentioning Rumsfeld’s “persecution” of my cousin Jim as irrelevant.

Hope you assume room temperature soon,

John
#36 Dustin
August 29, 2008

A statement was issued from the Monterey Bay Aquarium today. Scientists have noted that if John Kwok continues to harvest the formerly common Red Herring at such unsustainable rates, the wild population will be utterly decimated by 2009. Since John Kwok began harvesting 8,000,000 tons of the popular fish per week, populations of freeper trolls and creotards have also begun to decline as their food becomes more scarce. When asked to comment on the situation, Dustin said, “Look, I’m normally a tree-fucking liberal communist in support of things like Obama (the well known crypto-Nazi) and forcing farmers to starve in order to protect minnows but, honestly, I don’t care if the Red Herring or any of the species which depend on it become extinct”.
#37 Dustin
August 29, 2008

Don’t tell me that mentioning Rumsfeld’s “persecution” of my cousin Jim as irrelevant.

I hope that’s because its irrelevance goes without saying. But then, I’m also a foolish optimist.
#38 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

My dear Dustin,

DIdn’t know you could make it as a mediocre comedy writer with flashes of brilliance. That was funny. Don’t know if I should introduce you to a hungry 8 meter-long python or to the cast of “Saturday Night Live”. Maybe both.

John
#39 StuV
August 29, 2008

Wait, wait… you’re confusing me now. Is he a crazed Roman Emperor or a stealth Nazi?

And oh,

Don’t tell me that mentioning Rumsfeld’s “persecution” of my cousin Jim as irrelevant.

Well, seeing as it has absolutely nothing to do with what we were talking about, I feel safe in telling you it is pretty damned irrelevant.

But hey, since you brought it up: you must very much approve of your cousin’s persecution, seeing as you advocate for a candidate who is promising to enthusiastically continue the policies that made it all possible.

Why do you hate your cousin, John?
#40 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

My dear StuV,

Ayers and Rezko are relevant since Obama still counts both as friends (especially Ayers). Wright is relevant too, since how could an Ivy League-educated couple (or frankly any thoughtful couple) stomach the hate-filled rhetoric which Wright “preached” for almost two decades?

As for John McCain he has apologized more than once for being one of the Keating Five (That’s something I remember all too well since I was following it when I was a resident of Arizona years ago.).

John
#41 StuV
August 29, 2008

Don’t know if I should introduce you to a hungry 8 meter-long python or to the cast of “Saturday Night Live”. Maybe both.

From Godwin to physical threat in two hours flat. Bravo John!
#42 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear StuV,

I don’t hate him. Instead, I am supporting a candidate – McCain – who agrees with Jim that we shouldn’t torture imprisoned terrorists.

John
#43 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear StuV,

Go screw yourself, though I believe that’s anatomically impossible.

John
#44 StuV
August 29, 2008

Ayers and Rezko are relevant since Obama still counts both as friends (especially Ayers).

And?

Wright is relevant too, since how could an Ivy League-educated couple (or frankly any thoughtful couple) stomach the hate-filled rhetoric which Wright “preached” for almost two decades?

Give me one sample. I’ve listened to quite a bit of it, and I am not feelin’ the hate. Just because it makes you uncomfortable does not make it hate speech.

Tell you what, I have to jet right now but I’ll check back later. Plenty of time for you to dig up all that hate.

As for John McCain he has apologized more than once for being one of the Keating Five

Wow! He’s sorry!

Are you serious?
#45 Dustin
August 29, 2008

From Godwin to physical threat in two hours flat. Bravo John!

To be fair, he’s been wishing death upon me all week long.
#46 michael fugate
August 29, 2008

Guys, guys – you have to take everything John says with a grain of salt. After all, he spends his free time writing reviews of books he neither has read nor intends to read. Given this, everything he says is most likely irrelevant and I have taken to ignoring all of his comments.
#47 The Chimp's Raging Id
August 29, 2008

Obama is some bizarre cross between Hitler and a Roman emperor, so people should instead vote for Johnnie McSame. Wow John, what have you been smoking?
#48 Dustin
August 29, 2008

No, no. You have it wrong. It’s somewhat incidental that Obama is a cross between Hitler and a Roman emperor. We should vote for McCain because John Kwok knows a guy from college, his cousin was harassed by Rumsfeld, and something about Judge Jones.
#49 The Chimp's Raging Id
August 29, 2008

Oh right, now it makes perfect sense.
#50 Iain George
August 29, 2008

I think it had something to do with Leni Riefenstahl being someone’s cousin and Jodie Foster was involved. Sounds kinky. Or it’s just late and some are making less sense than usual.
#51 Blake Stacey
August 29, 2008

Jodie Foster making a movie about Leni Riefenstahl? Kewl. I must have been too far out of touch to hear the news. There’s potential artistic gold in any story of creative talent wedded to inhuman politics (D. W. Griffith springs to mind as a similar example).

I recall reading that Gregory Peck — famous “good guy” of cinema, notorious leftist who protested the House Unamerican Activities Committee and got his name on Nixon’s enemies list — was eager to play Josef Mengele in The Boys From Brazil. The better to keep people aware of evil, you see.
#52 chancelikely
August 29, 2008

No, no, no, you’ve got it all wrong: Leni Riefenstahl shot Hitler to impress Jodie Foster.
#53 Mercurious
August 29, 2008

Its just to bad McCain was against torture before he was for it……

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/us/politics/17torture.html

I guess according to the current administration McCain wasn’t tortured either.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/was-mccain-tort.html
#54 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Hi Blake,

I wasn’t aware that Jodie Foster has a script already. If she can pull it off, then I have to commend her determination, but I’m not sure if it is going to be well received. If my recollection is correct, Foster is interested simply because she thought Riefenstahl was a brilliant artist (which she was, but also one who shunned for obvious reasons.). I am familiar with Riefenstahl’s post-World War II work, which consists primarily of her superb underwater nature photographer. But I’d never praise it for this reason: she never condemned her past association with Adolf Hitler.

Appreciatively yours,

John
#55 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Dear Michael Fugate,

I most certainly do read the books I review elsewhere online. Otherwise, how could I’ve been thanked quite often by those who have found them quite helpful? In the exceedingly rare instances where I do not read books I am reviewing, I have noted that in the course of the review in question.

John
#56 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

My dear schmuck Dustin (and fellow dimwit The Chimp’s Raging ID),

With all the pomp and circumstance I witnessed last night from Denver, I thought I was watching the coronation of a Roman emperor, hence my new nickname: Caesar Barack Obamaus (Beforehand, someone I know who lives in Denver posted sarcastically that he was going to witness the second coming of the Messiah.). Unfortunately this may be an apt analogy given his past association with certain individuals like Ayers, Rezko and Wright and his interest in threatening those who seek to dig deeper into his past. Hmm…. where have I seen this before? Why of course: “I, Claudius”. I suppose we’ll have a 21st Century sequel, “I, Barack” if Caesar is inaugurated on January 20, 2009.

Dustin, am surprised you haven’t mentioned my Irish-American father yet (However, please don’t unless you want to come across rather foolishly again.).

May you soon assume room temperature soon,

John
#57 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

Elsewhere, over at PT, Arthur Hunt has done some fascinating work “deconstructing” “irreducible complexity” using ERV(s) in Giardia. I am posting his original link here:

http://aghunt.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/giardia-lamblia-polyadenylation-and-irreducible-complexity/

But you can also link to it here:

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/08/giardia-lamblia.html#comments

Regards,

John
#58 John Kwok
August 29, 2008

For all of those who support Caesar Barack Obamaus,

Eminent Afro-American economist Thomas Sowell has this intriguing analysis on Obama’s speech last night, comparing and contrasting it with McCain’s selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/changes_in_politics.html

(Incidentally, in his own words, Sowell – who received his Ph. D. in economics from the University of Chicago – has admitted that he was an academic failure in high school, having flunked out of New York City’s prestigious Stuyvesant High School (my alma mater). His enlistment in the US Army and the GI Bill saved him, allowing him to earn admittance to Harvard University.)

John
#59 Dustin
August 29, 2008

Jodie Foster was involved. Sounds kinky.

I’m watching Barbarella right now! What an astonishing confluence of events.

Hey, can someone give Kwok a technical tap? The needle is stuck in a groove again.
#60 Dustin
August 29, 2008

my Irish-American father…Eminent Afro-American economist …prestigious Stuyvesant High School (my alma mater)
#61 windy
August 29, 2008

Hmm…. where have I seen this before? Why of course: “I, Claudius”.

Claudius? Let’s see.

-Claudius succeeded Caligula, whom many people consider “the worst Roman Emperor of all time.”

…”Caligula was famously unjust in his application of the laws against treason.”

…”If Caligula was insane, schizophrenia sounds the most likely. But those who believe that Caligula was never mentally ill attribute his erratic behaviour to being suddenly presented with immense responsibility”

…”popular opinion still holds that no sane person could have done what Caligula did, and that it was by all accounts a relief when Claudius took over.”

“Claudius was considered a rather unlikely man to become emperor.”

“Despite his lack of political experience, Claudius proved to be an able administrator and a great builder of public works.”

ALL RIGHT THEN! Only problem is, Obama doesn’t stutter.
#62 nanoAl
August 29, 2008

John, do you really need to ask why Obama would want to keep his alleged foreignness and muslim background quiet? HE’S RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES! duh.
#63 clinteas
August 29, 2008

John Kwok,

I usually let your insane comments here stand,but can I point out a few things to you this time around:

//Unlike Bobby Jindal – who is a fellow alumnus of my college (along with Ken Miller) – Palin hasn’t lobbied to have her religious views imposed on the state of Alaska’s public school science curricula//

Apart from the fact that I dont care for arguments from authority much and that its irrelevant who went to “your”college,that statement is wrong,according to here:

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html

//I look first at a person’s qualifications before I vote. I vote frequently for Republican, Democratic, Libertarian and Conservative candidates.//

Where you live must be a place with lots of elections.

//I still think that last night’s rally reminded me of footage of mass rallies in support of Il Duce, Die Fuhrer and Emperor Showa (Japanese for “peace” ) back in the 1930s.//

When was the last time you watched the Super Bowl? Tasteless maybe,those greek columns,but mass rallies of the 30s? Get a grip mate !
And can I say one more thing,your frequent critical references to the DI and constant arguments from authority do not add credibility to any of the other scrambled thought salad youve put out here today.

Kind Regards
#64 michael fugate
August 30, 2008

So John, you read the books you review except for the ones you don’t…..
Why would you review a book you haven’t read?
#65 The Chimp's Raging Id
August 30, 2008

John,

If your point was that Obama’s “coronation” (quite an apt term, I think, for what happened at the Democratic National Convention) was an exercise in over-the-top, pompous, hype-laden vacuity, I’m not disagreeing with you. What I’d add to that however is that it was entirely typical exercise in over-the-top, pompous, hype-laden vacuity. Any political party that could put on such a show to anoint its candidate for president would do so for the simple reason that it looks good on camera. Any halfway informed political observer could see that and would pay minimal attention to it and would focus instead on the stated policies of the presidential candidates.

Just because the Democrats could get away with such a display doesn’t mean they or their candidate are necessarily any more imperious than their opponents. If you really are concerned with imperious behaviour from present and future members of the Executive, I suggest your energies are better directed at lobbying for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney, whose well-documented acts of egregious monarchical behaviour have shown an utter contempt for the constitutional limits on their power and the rule of law. Punishing these two will send a message to present and future members of the Executive that the electorate will not tolerate them overstepping constitutional limits on their power.

Finally, to make it clear where I stand, if I were an American citizen (which I’m not), I’d be voting for Obama. Presently, almost anyone would be preferable to McCain due to his apparent commitment to continue the bloody, wilfully ignorant, destructive and self-defeating foreign policy of Bush & co. Obama has the potential to be the most progressive American president in a very long time, if and only if the electorate demands that that’s the president that he be. Otherwise he will end up as beholden to special interests as those that have gone before. We’ve already seen the beginning of the rot setting in: his volte face on FISA, arse-kissing at AIPAC, sucking up to the religiots…

In the end functioning democracies require politically informed and engaged electorates to survive. If people want a change to the failed policies of the last eight years, they need to get noisy and active.

I hope you choose wisely at the upcoming election.

Regards,
The Dimwitted Chimp

P.S. It’s “id” (as in the concept from Freudian psychology) not I.D.
P.P.S Sorry for the long and probably tedious comment; the promise of a sun-drenched weekend will prevent me from rambling any further.
#66 eddie
August 30, 2008

At the end of one convention and before the other one starts is a deeply silly time to complain about pomp. Yes, both will be tacky. Whining about one and not the other is hypocritical.

Just sayin’
#67 David Marjanovi?
August 30, 2008

6 years ago we had no idea where tyrannosaurs have come from.

6 years ago? That was in 2002. Ten years before that it was demonstrated for the first time that the tyrannosaurs are coelurosaurs…

It is true we’re finding more and more early tyrannosauroids, but the Dragon of Lisowice is not one. It’s sold as a basal tetanuran, Tetanurae being the group to which coelurosaurs, carnosaurs (such as Allosaurus) and a few others belong. Probably it’s not even a dinosaur, however, but a rauisuchian, more closely related to the crocodiles than to the dinosaurs.

———————

I don’t hate him. Instead, I am supporting a candidate – McCain – who agrees with Jim that we shouldn’t torture imprisoned terrorists.

Under what definition of torture?

Rather than finally starting to ossify his vertebral column, McSame has adopted Fearless Flightsuit’s definition under which, say, waterboarding isn’t torture.

This means McSame himself was not tortured in Vietnam by his own definition.

See, sometimes it’s important to know what the meaning of “is” is.

————————

“id” (as in the concept from Freudian psychology)

I find it hilarious that these terms were translated into Latin for the English-speaking market. The originals are not only German (Es, Ich, �ber-Ich), but Freud deliberately refused to invent pompous-sounding technical terms for them.

————————-

What, if anything, does McSame plan to do about the tens of millions of US citizens who have no health insurance and live in fear of going bankrupt when someone in their family gets ill?

————————-

Several other ScienceBlogs have mentioned the… problems Palin has with the law.
#68 clinteas
August 30, 2008

//This means McSame himself was not tortured in Vietnam by his own definition.
See, sometimes it’s important to know what the meaning of “is” is.//

And that,David M,is why I like you so much lol…..
#69 Doog
August 30, 2008

“6 years ago? That was in 2002. Ten years before that it was demonstrated for the first time that the tyrannosaurs are coelurosaurs…

It is true we’re finding more and more early tyrannosauroids, but the Dragon of Lisowice is not one. It’s sold as a basal tetanuran, Tetanurae being the group to which coelurosaurs, carnosaurs (such as Allosaurus) and a few others belong. Probably it’s not even a dinosaur, however, but a rauisuchian, more closely related to the crocodiles than to the dinosaurs.”- David Marjanovi?

Ok, I referring more to recognizable ancestors and I was a freshman in high school when hey announced Dilong and then a senior when they announced Guanlong. Now, I have always found the internet utterly useless when it comes to paleontological research. Which makes mes curious about your information. All I have been able to find about the Dragon is news articles (expected for any new discovery), and in them all they say they feel sure it’s T. rex’s ancestor. How are you so certain it’s not? In my opinion, it very well could be based on the shape of the jaw. And what makes you think it’s a rausuchian?

Then again, I am most likely wrong. I guess now that I am in college, I’m just another common idiot on fossils…
#70 Mercurious
August 30, 2008

David, McCain has a great plan for health care!!

Just go to the Emergency room

“The next president of the United States should sign an executive order requiring the Census Bureau to cease and desist from describing any American, even illegal aliens, as uninsured. Instead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment should they need care. So, there you have it. Voila! Problem solved.”
#71 John Kwok
August 30, 2008

Dear Chimp,

Yours have been the most thoughtful set of critical comments I have read so far, and I truly appreciate them (I am glad you’re at least another person who was a bit put off by the “coronation” of Caesar Barack Obamaus. incidentally, I have referred to Robert Graves’ “I, Claudius” merely to emphasize the political intrigue and sexual shenanigans which occurred during the reigns of Caesar Augustus and his adopted “son” Tiberius; in light of Caesar Obamaus’ penchant for keeping company with persons of ill-repute, I am certain we will have a return to some variant of Clintonian soap opera that I found so amusing back in the 1990s.).

However, I am going to disagree with your conclusions respectfully (and hope you do the same for mine). The more I hear details about Governor Palin, the more I find myself liking her. She was elected on a campaign platform to reform Alaska’s state government, and she did just that once she assumed office, by kicking out corrupt officials. She has established the most effective state Office of Emergency Management in the country (So she can deal with emergencies ranging from forest fires to volcanic eruptions and earthquakes.). Most importantly, she has demonstrated in approximately the same period of time that Obama has served without distinction in the US Senate that she can govern effectively, winning the approval rating of at least 80% statewide in a recent poll. She has also impressed fellow governors with her intelligence and leadership ability (I heard a glowing bit of praise from CT’s governor, Jodi Rell earlier this morning on the radio.).

Let the Democrats and others accuse her of being inexperienced. In stark contrast to both Obama and Biden, she has had more experience in running a government at either a municipal (She was mayor of her town of approximately 5,000 people for ten years.) or state level. She is also a spouse of a Native American (Her husband is Inuit.), and any criticism of her may have unexpected political backlash against Democrats in Native American communities (Especially in a state like AZ, where Native Americans comprise a substantial, economically important, minority. In AZ, most of the cowboys are members of the Dine (Navajo) tribe.).

Does this mean that I am endorsing her wholeheartedly? No. I have grave reservations regarding her support of Young Earth Creationism. However, unlike Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal, she hasn’t pursued a policy to insert religious values into science classrooms, recognizing that they should be kept separate.

Appreciatively yours,

John
#72 JD
August 30, 2008

I want, no I NEED your comments about Sarah Palin as McSame’s VP choice!!!

Well, if Abbie is a proud vagina-American, then she’ll vote for Palin. That’s the McCain plan. It even as Samatha Bee convinced.
#73 John Kwok
August 30, 2008

Dear JD,

CT governor Jodi Rell said earlier this morning on the radio that she’s quite impressed with Palin’s intelligence and leadership abilities. I also stumbled upon a report that Geraldine Ferraro believes Palin is qualified to serve as Vice President. She thinks Palin’s selection is risky, but no one should question her qualifications.

Sincerely yours,

John
#74 Dustin
August 30, 2008

*Opens an umbrella to keep John Kwok’s dropped names out of his hair*

She thinks Palin’s selection is risky, but no one should question her qualifications

Well, that clinches it! If that’s good enough for Geraldine Ferraro, it’s good enough for me!

Christ you’ve got it bad.
#75 clinteas
August 30, 2008

//and she did just that once she assumed office, by kicking out corrupt officials//

*headdesk*
#76 StuV
August 31, 2008

the “coronation” of Caesar Barack Obamaus.

I let this slide before, but come off it John. You don’t know German, you don’t know Latin. Stop embarrassing yourself. “Obamaus”? Really?

I have referred to Robert Graves’ “I, Claudius” merely to emphasize the political intrigue and sexual shenanigans which occurred during the reigns of Caesar Augustus and his adopted “son” Tiberius

Liar. You impled a hell of a lot more than that. You are backtracking now because someone pointed out to you that Claudius was one of the best — if not THE best — emperors the Roman empire ever had.

in light of Caesar Obamaus’ penchant for keeping company with persons of ill-repute

I have linked fairly comprehensive stories on both Ayers and Rezko before in this thread. You are either deciding not to be informed or deciding not to care either way, because the truth infringes on your delicate sensibilities.

Either way, you are a liar.

I am certain we will have a return to some variant of Clintonian soap opera that I found so amusing back in the 1990s

Ah, finally. The Clinton Hate-O-Rade comes out. Watch Fox “News” a lot, do we?

Anyway.

23,000,000 new jobs? Shrinking the Federal government? Clinton was the best Republican President this country ever had. That’s why you hate him.

[About Palin]

She was elected on a campaign platform to reform Alaska’s state government, and she did just that once she assumed office, by kicking out corrupt officials.

You mean getting her brother in-law state trooper fired because he was going through a bad divorce with her sister, right?

So she can deal with emergencies ranging from forest fires to volcanic eruptions and earthquakes.

I know. Alaska is just the damned nexus of emergencies. Louisiana is just a state of whiners.

I heard a glowing bit of praise from CT’s governor, Jodi Rell earlier this morning on the radio.

JODI FARKING RELL? Are you even operating on the same plane of existence the rest of us are? What the hell is wrong with you, John?

Let the Democrats and others accuse her of being inexperienced.

Well, with her being, oh, inexperienced and all, let’s do just that.

She was mayor of her town of approximately 5,000 people for ten years

Sheeet, John, you’ve convinced me. That makes her eminently qualified to run a country with 280,000,000 people. It’s like, so the same.

She is also a spouse of a Native American

Holy Non-Sequitur #2, Batman!

Hey, John, did you hear Barack Obama actually married a… wait for it… BLACK WOMAN?

Does this mean that I am endorsing her wholeheartedly? No.

Which ventrical chambers are you withholding, John?

I have grave reservations regarding her support of Young Earth Creationism

On the other hand, you don’t care enough to oppose a YECer in the White House. Nor do you care enough to keep a virulent anti-abortionist out of the same house, either. Good going, John.

she hasn’t pursued a policy to insert religious values into science classrooms

Liar.

John, please Google “cognitive dissonance”. I am about to put you on the WikiPedia page on the subject.

Stunned and revoltedly yours,
The reality-based community.
#77 The Chimp's Raging Id
August 31, 2008

John,

I think you’ve misunderstood me. I wasn’t in the least bit concerned about Obama’s “coronation”. It was a standard piece of political showmanship that has no real relevance or bearing on the decision whether to support Obama’s bid for the White House. As I made it clear earlier, I do hope that he wins the election. I also hope that the grassroots political activism his campaign has inspired continues throughout his presidency so that he is kept honest and on the right track.

Given that Alaska’s internal politics are rarely newsworthy outside the US, I don’t know enough about Palin to comment on her specifically. However, as a general principal, I would never consider electing a YEC to high office as such a person’s ability to objectively evaluate facts and make sound, rational decisions is going to be crippled by their attachment to a medieval belief system.

I am quite puzzled by how someone notionally on the side of science and rationality would want the White House populated with creationists and pro-lifers.
#78 John Kwok
August 31, 2008

Dear Chimp,

I’ve elected a YEC twice and am proud of it, only because I wasn’t focused on single issue politics (That was when I was a lot younger and far more conservative than I am now. The person in question is the President who ended effectively the Cold War.).

To her everlasting credit Sarah Palin hasn’t sought zealously to insert YEC into Alaskan public school science curricula, in stark contrast to Bobby Jindal (A Rhodes Scholar alumnus of my undergraduate alma mater who should know better since he concentrated in biology in college.).

John
#79 John Kwok
August 31, 2008

Dear Chimp,

Former Bill Clinton advisor and political pundit Dick Morris has a most insightful essay in today’s New York Post about Palin:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08312008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/lady_is_a_champ_126833.htm

Morris is regarded by many as among our foremost political strategists, so his comments are credible (On a personal note, I’ve spoken to him in person several times, beginning with a high school alumni event that I helped organize for him back in 2002. Yes, he’s a prominent alumnus of our noted NYC public high school.).

Regards,

John
#80 Dustin
August 31, 2008

The person in question is the President who ended effectively the Cold War.

You voted for Mikhail Gorbachev? Seems like you do have a lick of sense after all.

Morris is regarded by many as among our foremost political strategists, so his comments are credible.

I think I’m going to make a John Kwok fallacy bingo game.

On a personal note, I’ve spoken to him in person several times, beginning with a high school alumni event that I helped organize for him back in 2002.

John: Listen. Very. Carefully.
NOBODY. FUCKING. CARES.
#81 John Kwok
August 31, 2008

My favorite fuck schmuck Dustin:

Obviously you do care since you reply to each and every one of my posts.

On a more serious note, it should tell you a lot about McCain’s character when it’s been praised by many Democrats and Republicans, ranging from Joe Lieberman to Rudy Giuliani, and, even, of all people, Joe Biden. It’s funny I haven’t heard the same praise for Obama. Gee, I wonder why.

On a more personal note, I have found more enjoyable, discussing politics in person – when I have had the opportunity – with fellow Stuy alum Dick Morris than I ever have had with a moron like yourself.

Be one with the fossil record. Jump into quicksand or a tar pit ASAP.

Hope you assume room temperature soon,

John
#82 Dustin
August 31, 2008

Well, to be honest, I am losing interest. I mean, you have a set of about three different fallacies. There are only so many times that red herrings, appeals to authority, and arguments ad hominem are interesting. Besides that, most people stop using them in their senior year of their prestigious high school.

Since you actually seemed determined to produce fallacious arguments, it may be that you simply aren’t aware that there are other fallacies than your favorite three. So, here’s a list of some other fallacies. I’d invite you to try destroying the exception or maybe affirming the consequent at least once — just to keep things interesting.
#83 The Chimp's Raging Id
August 31, 2008

Dick Morris. Beloved of Faux News, is he not? The New York Post. Seriously? Yet another bastion of journalistic integrity.

And Reagan’s great claim is that his foreign policy probably killed more people than your present knuckle-dragging president (have a look into the history of US interventions in South America if you don’t know what I’m talking about). He didn’t end the Cold War… he just happened to be in office at the time.

And as Dustin and others keep trying to tell you, we don’t care who you know or who your fellow alumni are.
#84 John Kwok
August 31, 2008

Dear Chimp:

If you don’t care, then just ignore me, okay?

I’m off to enjoy the rest of a beautiful Sunday. Hope yours is well.

Respectfully yours,

John
#85 Stephen Wells
September 1, 2008

Hitler had two legs; I’m sure John is off to amputate one of his own, to avoid any unfortunate comparisons.
#86 StuV
September 1, 2008

I’ve elected a YEC twice and am proud of it

Proud of it? You are proud that you elected a YECist, or you are proud that you elected someone who happened to be one? Come on John, grammar isn’t that hard.

The person in question is the President who ended effectively the Cold War.

I sure as hell hope you don’t mean Reagan, but I fear you do. If so, you fail, do not pass go and do not collect $200. As comforting as that particular conservative binky is, it is hokum. Do some research.

Oh, here’s a temperature check for additional binkies. Did Reagan raise or lower effective tax rates?

Sarah Palin hasn’t sought zealously to insert YEC into Alaskan public school science curricula

First of all, you give yourself away instantly by feeling the need to throw in that “zealously” every time. You know damned well that she would have if she had had the clout. Love the “zealously” though; evokes images of a Joan Of Arc get-up, smiting them evolutionists left and right.

in stark contrast to Bobby Jindal (A Rhodes Scholar alumnus of my undergraduate alma mater who should know better since he concentrated in biology in college.).

What the hell is it with the name-dropping John? You are truly the most insecure person whose delusions I have ever had the distinct displeasure of having to debunk.

Morris is regarded by many as among our foremost political strategists

Dick Morris? Dick fricking Morris? The guy that invented triangulation and set political discourse back a decade? The guy that had to be fired two months from running the easiest campaign of the past century (96) for letting a hooker listen in to presidential conversations? The guy that has waged a sad little vendetta against the Clintons since? The guy that has been wrong on every single damned political prediction he has ever uttered? No, I mean, it, every single one? It’s so bad that if you want to know what is going to happen on any issue, listen to Dick Morris’ opinion. The exact, polar opposite will come to be. Guaranteed.

Anyway…

That Dick Morris?

so his comments are credible

If by “credible” you mean “complete and utter joke”, yes.

On a personal note, I’ve spoken to him in person several times, beginning with a high school alumni event that I helped organize for him back in 2002. Yes, he’s a prominent alumnus of our noted NYC public high school.

I have no idea what you are attempting to compensate for by name-dropping (it seems somewhat pathological John… do people at work laugh at you a lot?), but if you feel the need to do so, you might want to pick people that enhance your point and/or stature. Personally, I would go to great, great lengths to hide any associations with the likes of Jindal and Morris. For crying out loud, John. You’re not helping yourself.

On a more serious note, it should tell you a lot about McCain’s character when it’s been praised by many Democrats and Republicans, ranging from Joe Lieberman to Rudy Giuliani

You truly are a walking guide of People Not To Trust, Respect, Listen To Or Hang Out With. Praise from Lieberman and Giuliani? Ranging all the way from Independent That Really Wants To Be In An Administration, Any Will Do, Will Reach Around For Cabinet Position to Doesn’t It Suck My Private Boink Pad Got Blown Up In 9/11, oh, did I mention 9/11? What range, John. Bravo. All the way from dirt-bag to dirt-bag.

For the record:

Joe Lieberman could do nothing else. He’s no longer a Democrat and will not get re-elected. For him, it’s a cabinet job or early retirement. Also, he’s a DINO holier-than-thou douche whose departure will greatly decrease the level of slime left on the Senate floor.

Rudi Guliani is obvious kin to McCain. Both enjoy dumping wives when convenient, have been proven corrupt, have changed their position on every issue known to man when needed and have very similar retorical binkies: noun, verb, 9/11 vs. noun, verb, POW.

Again, that you reference these two speaks volumes.

and, even, of all people, Joe Biden

Duh. They’ve worked together for decades and have been on the odious side of many issues together.

It’s funny I haven’t heard the same praise for Obama.

Besides Ted Kennedy, Hilary Clinton, Bob Casey, Tim Pawlenty, Chuck Hagel, Sarah Palin, Mark Sanford, Newt Gingrich, Tom Bernstein, Matthew Dowd, Robert Kagan, John Martin, John Canning, Deval Patrick, Jim Leach, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, Chet Culver, no, nobody is praising Obama. Not a soul.

Gee, I wonder why.

Because you’re very, very disingenuous? Because your cognitive dissonance is strong enough to power the US for the next 50 years?

John, you don’t like Obama. We get it. It’s becoming painfully obvious that you haven’t a single cogent or concrete reason for it. Trying to justify your hatred of him post-hoc by making things up is exactly the kind of intellectual dishonesty you profess to hate so much. And although it is somewhat amusing to watch you degenerate further and further into selectively ignoring every argument you don’t have a vapid right-wing talking point memorized for, calling Dustin ever more juvenile names and dropping ever more embarrassing names (really, that is the most flabbergasting of all — that anyone would think an association with Dick Morris would make one MORE credible is simply beyond comprehension), your train of thought and argument is off the rails, wrecked, burnt-out and has been recycled as firelighters. If you want to retain any semblence of dignity, please, leave this thread.

This is an intervention, John. Please stop. We care about you.
#87 ChrisC
September 3, 2008

Just delurking for a second (I’ve no intention of joining the Kwok pile-on), but John, could you answer me a simple question?

Why do you choose to name drop ad-neausem?

It really distracts from you arguments. Honestly, I could care less about which high school/college various people attended, an whether it was the same school/college as yourself and whether you know and speak to these people regularly.

Really, do yourself a favour and stop the name dropping. It’s not helping your cause at all.
#88 Josh
September 3, 2008

All I have been able to find about the Dragon is news articles (expected for any new discovery), and in them all they say they feel sure it’s T. rex’s ancestor. How are you so certain it’s not?

I doubt David is certain that it’s not, but do remember that we don’t look for actual ancestors. Even if the specimen represents a tyrannosaurid, anyone asserting that X or Y skeleton represents the ancestor of T. rex probably needs to go back to school for a bit.

Phylogeny: you’re doing it wrong.
#89 Inoculated Mind
September 3, 2008

Wow this thread really got hijacked by a completely different discussion. I’d like to steer it back if I can.

Hugh Ross and ‘Fuz’ Rana are an interesting duo. They are knowledgeable about science, are competent enough to understand and communicate it, but have an ulterior motive that prevents them from being scientific – their stated goal as a Ministry is to use science to convert people to Christianity. This colors everything that they write about. If a study suggests that Neanderthal’s might have a human language gene, they’ll claim it is junk science. If relativity gains support they’ll claim that the Bible predicted it. Hell, Ross even claims in the book in question that the Scientific Method should be called The Biblical Method because it came from the Bible!

I have read Creation as Science, and the first thing I’d like to tell you about it is that their list of “predictions” either 1. Don’t logically follow from the premises, or 2. Do not distinguish between one version or another, and are added as fluff. Many of the “predictions” are merely predictions that existing scientific theories already make, and they are trying to suggest, weakly, that the Bible predicts these developments. (Many of the “predictions” that evolution makes, according to them, are not predicted by evolution, but are chosen to make evolution look bad.)
What I find interesting is if you look back through some of their old stuff, they made predictions long ago that have turned out to be false, and today their predictions are different. A young-earth creationist trying to investigate these inconsistencies was turned down when he wanted some of Ross’s old lectures to see what more he said in the last 20+ years.

The only thing going for them is the same old God of the Gaps fallacy. They deny it, but Ross states clearly (after denying it) in his book, where he says that “expanding” gaps point toward supernatural explanations.

I’ve been putting off reviewing Ross’s book on my blog, mostly because it is laughable, but also because doing a detailed debunking of Ross’s pub-jacked claims will be such a time draw. But I must do it at some point, because no one else has. Seriously, these guys don’t get a lot of attention. Find Fuz Rana’s amazon blog and see just how many comments there are! (crickets…)
#90 pough
September 8, 2008

It’s a pity Leni Riefenstahl wasn’t available to direct a sequel of her “Triumph of the Will” as a superb piece of cinematic propaganda for Howard Dean and the Democratic National Committee.

I thought that was “Triumph of the Wii” and I totally wanted to see it. Anyways. I gotta say, I think you’re kinda odd.