Controversy brewing at University of Oklahoma!

lol Not really.

(H/T AtBC) Some UD IDiot wrote a letter to OU pres David Boren (whos actually a pretty cool guy) bitching about how OUs Darwin Year celebrations dont have anyone from the Creationist Camp included!

As an institution of learning in the state of Oklahoma, it is my hope that OU would present to the public the full range of opinion that is present within science over Darwin’s theories. In addition to the action of natural selection, many other theories as to the origin of the species have been considered and discussed, including, but not limited to, evolution by symbiogenesis (Lynn Margulis), biological self-organization (Stuart Kauffman), evolution through natural genetic engineering (James Shapiro), evolution by intelligent design (Michael Behe), and creationism (Leonard Brand [who?]). Aspects of all of these theories are within the bounds of current scientific discussions, and I listed the names of prominent proponents along with the theories. Links by ERV, names original


I bet Boren will take johnny seriously, though. Johnny used to live in Oklahoma.

Johnny even has the support of UD commenter, riddick, who is a professor at OU!!

The Zoology Department at OU is about the most Stalinist institution in academia one can imagine. Check out their statement here:

After reading that, you’ll understand why the presenters at this year’s Darwinfest are basically on one side of the argument. As a professor at OU, I am familiar with the formation and acceptance of the statement, as one of my colleagues was the sole dissenter on the committee which reviewed it.

If anyone knows about Stalin and evolutionary biology, its Dr. Frank Riddick— Visiting Assistant Professor of Music Theory at the University of Oklahoma.

ROFL!!! God bless IDiots!

There is, however, annoying news to report. The Trinity Baptist spawn have recoagulated OUs defunct IDEA club. They are bringing Dembski-TARD back to campus… to ‘debate’ Michael Ruse.


Fantastic. Why not invite the music guy, too? Have a whole troupe of non-scientists to ‘debate’ science. Yay. Ugh. Ruse and Billy are buttbuddies and ‘debate’ each other all the friggen time (2005 Dembski=hard lulz).

*raises hand* Ill ‘debate’ Billy, Trinity Spawn. Not that I expect anyone to ask, after Behes response to a request to ‘debate’ me. Hell, why dont you just find some random OU biology undergrad to ‘debate’ him? Oh, no I suppose youre too scared of that potential outcome too.

No, best to invite the twat.



  1. #1 J-Dog
    January 26, 2009

    If Dembsksi actually show up, will you PLEASE get a picture of him wearing a new sweater? His old one looks like it was designed pre-flood.

    Perhaps Mugatu or the same “designer” that developed Aretha’s Inauguration Day hat could be persuaded to take one for the team and “create” one for him.

    Thanks for staying on top of this. BTW – You made Dembski cry last time he visited – I’ll bet you a bottle of single-malt scotch he finds better things to do than go back to OK.

  2. #2 Eddie Janssen
    January 26, 2009

    The first sentence of his letter says it all:
    “It has come to my attention that the University of Oklahoma is celebrating the 150th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s Origin of the Species with a Darwin Symposium.”

    Yes Origin of the Species. Like 200 years of Solitude or the Booble or The Sisters Karamazov or Wuthering Hills or Jonathan Livingston Eagle or or or or …

  3. #3 Ivan
    January 26, 2009

    Dembski-TARD. I hear he’s a master debater.

  4. #4 James F
    January 26, 2009

    This must be one of the “about a dozen IDEA club chapters that are active or in-formation,” as Allen MacNeill notes. Any chance that “about a dozen” = one?

  5. #5 James F
    January 26, 2009

    ETA: OK, to be fair, two.

    Yeti Spotter: Well I’ve seen one. Well, a little one. A picture of a…I’ve heard about them.

  6. #6 Colin M
    January 26, 2009

    “OU pres David Boren (whos actually a pretty cool guy)”

    … and doesn’t afraid of anything?!?

  7. #7 Sili
    January 26, 2009


    It’s a Darwinfest!

    Would he invite the AA or La confederation de vineures francaises* to the Oktoberfest too?

    Perhaps the poor musicologist has been reading a few too many Shostakowich biografies or summat (I’ve grown rather fond of the quartets, actually, so this is not meant as a dig at the composes).

    *French pulled from my rotting memory by way of my arse.

  8. #8 Paholaisen Asianajaja
    January 26, 2009

    If Demsbki comes you should create a welcoming environment by wearing fugly grey sweaters.

  9. #9 Brian G.
    January 26, 2009

    Pfft, forget the sweaters, Dembski’s always been known to me by the glasses. I don’t think he’s gotten new ones in 20 years. Can you imagine how dirty 20 year old nose pads must be?!

  10. #10 ShavenYak
    January 26, 2009

    The Zoology Department at OU is about the most Stalinist institution in academia one can imagine.

    Yeah, complete with gulags where dissenters can die of malnutrition like geneticist Nikolai Vavilov did. Except that Vavilov was an actual scientist, and was imprisoned for speaking out against the pseudoscience of Trofim Lysenko, so that’s almost completely the opposite.

  11. #11 Brian
    January 26, 2009

    If you really want a good laugh, check the comments at the UD thread on this. They actually mention Dembski’s use of the inner life of the cell…in a positive light. As in, it was a *good* thing that Dembski did it, should get credit for it and what not.

    “Dembski-TARD. I hear he’s a master debater.”

    Actually, he’s not bad…I’m aware of the fact that he got lit up last time at OU. I watched the clips before they were yanked from youtube due to the copyright issues. See above inner life of the cell. I loved it.

    But usually he doesn’t do badly. He’s glib, doesn’t answer tough questions, has a script that can sound good if you don’t already know the issues, and is generally slippery on the issues. Good debate technique.


  12. #12 SLC
    January 26, 2009

    A little OT but there is a gentleman (if we may stretch the meaning of that term) calling himself John Kwok who has been posting nasty comments about Ms. Smith over at Jason Rosenhouses’ blog. Mr. Kwok claims that he used to post over here but was banned. I wonder if Ms. Smith would care to comment.

  13. #13 Nick
    January 26, 2009

    Abbie, you’re not, like, available, are you? Because I tink I luff you.

  14. #14 Bayesian Bouffant, FCD
    January 26, 2009

    I think a little bolding will clear the whole thing up:

    As an institution of learning in the state of Oklahoma, it is my hope that OU would present to the public the full range of opinion that is present within science over Darwin’s theories…

  15. #15 ERV
    January 26, 2009

    Thanks, SLC. His comments at Jasons are an attempt to ‘get my attention’. I will thank you in advance for ignoring him, as he feeds off attention like this. If you have specific questions about my posts Kwok refers to, please ask them, but I assure you Kwoks claims about my posts are idiotic… which you would know if you read my posts well *squint* 😛

    Kwok was temporarily banned from ERV 6 months ago for being a nuisance (derailing every goddamn post of mine with trolling and wildly O/T comments, sending me dozens of emails a day DEMANDING I delete others posts and ban Order of Molly/long-time posters, etc). I offered to reinstate his posting privileges if he opened his own blog. He chose to send me insane, threatening emails instead. Therefore, Kwok and his sock-puppets are now permanently banned from ERV.

    Thats all we are going to say about it.

  16. #16 Stacy
    January 26, 2009

    Assistant professor of music theory, huh?? Did he produce that song “tectonic plate” – by the continental drifts”??

    I’ll be here all night – don’t forget to tip your waitress”.

  17. #17 vhutchison
    January 26, 2009

    Comments on the thread on UD continue. The one by smander is by an undergraduate student. Riddick responds with a comment that his Ph.D. in music theory is a scholarly pursuit, etc. Of course, that makes him an expert also on science! I am a little surprised that smander’s comment was posted; they often refuse comments that oppose their views. I hope others will try posts on the UD thread, but wording should be ‘respectful’ to avoid immediate refusal! I suggest that you ERV readers try it. Letters to President Boren supporting the Darwin Year activities might also be helpful

    If IDers like Riddick were to check ‘Voices for Evolution” edited by Carrie Sager at NCSE, they would really be concerned that there are so many statements for evolution by numerous science deartments, as well as science, educational,civil liberties, religious groups. Behe’s department has a strong pro-evolution statement, for example. These very long lists would really distress Riddick!

    It should be obvious that Riddick is way out of his element and only knows the narrow cereationist worldview, but he has the right to remain ignorant.

  18. #18 vvhutchison
    January 26, 2009

    Added note: I do not normally advocate that folks even read or comment on UD (this inflates their importance in their minds), but there well may be some exceptions.

  19. #19 carlsonjok
    January 26, 2009

    Maybe someone from the zoology or biology department should go over and tell Riddick how the Bee-Gees are more musically significant than Brahms and Beethoven. I’m sure he would love to teach that controversy and have his students understand the strengths and weaknesses of the Theory of Gibb Supremacy.

  20. #20 alufelgi
    January 26, 2009

    In my opinion the largest threat for California are cataclysms and ecological catastrophes. Not important is how many money we have because one tragedy can us take all.

  21. #21 vhutchison
    January 26, 2009

    On the UD thread there is now a post about Dembski’s last visit to OU that mentions the plagarized film clip from Harvard films and states that a return by Dembski to OU is not likely to be friendly! You betcha! The Center for Inquiry student group and others can be expected to greet Dembski again with hand outs, sidewalk chalkings, perhaps another ad in the student newspaper, etc.

  22. #22 James F
    January 26, 2009


    Riddick responds with a comment that his Ph.D. in music theory is a scholarly pursuit, etc. Of course, that makes him an expert also on science!

    Well, since I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and have played in cover bands, I am fully qualified to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of music theory.

  23. #23 deep
    January 26, 2009

    Ahh, yes nothing says “celebrating Darwin’s birth” like allowing an ignorant IDer give a speech on how he was a communist anti-American Nazi racist. Something tells me that be a bit of a dampener on the festivities…

  24. #24 vhutchison
    January 26, 2009

    #21 Ooops – it’s gone!. Apparently UD did not like the post about Dumbski’s plagiarism and his bad reception on his last visit to OU, even though it only stated facts and was not ‘disrespectful.’

    They wish to express their opinions at OU activities celebrating Darwin, but do not allow many opposite opinions on their web sites. DI accepts NO comments on their blog.

    Such hypocrisy!, but we expect no less from the creotards who do not practice what they ‘preach’ about fairness. They desire that their opinions be expressed through their attempts with ‘Academic Freedom Acts,’ appeals to ‘fairness,’ etc., but do not reciprocate when their ox is likely to be gored.

  25. #25 sfanetti
    January 26, 2009

    Their message is god’s message so it is ofensive for you to say things that oppose their message. People that dissent are immoral and offensive, so unless they are asking questions without hint of probing or skepticism, they are suspect. Only the faithful that accept their statements at face value are acceptable believers. I wonder what the chances are that the music teacher is a fundamentalist Christian.

  26. #26 SLC
    January 26, 2009

    Re John Kwok

    I entirely agree with Ms. Smith that Mr. Kwok is an asshole and is probably mentally disturbed. Just for her information, I and several others got into a discussion with him over at Pandas’ Thumb concerning his obsession with President Obamas’ birth certificate in which he was quite irrational. He is what commentors over at Ed Braytons’ blog refer to as a birther, or birfer. In the unlikely event that anybody is interested, I am posting the link to that rather fruitless discussion, although some of the commentors at Prof. Rosenhouses’ blog found it disturbingly amusing.

  27. #27 Eric Saveau
    January 26, 2009

    Oh, yeeeeaahh… I remember John Kwok. Quite apart from the fact that he had appointed himself to be Abbie’s creepy stalker his posts, even when on topic, consisted entirely of repeating “mendacious intellectual pornography” over and over again punctuated by occasional boasting about the publishers and Nobel laureates he alledgedly just had lunch with the day before while discussing the topic of the post he was commenting on. He never failed to annoy.

  28. #28 Ben Breuer
    January 26, 2009

    Just to rescue the honor of my profession: not all musicologists are quite that eager to comment on topics they are not experts on. Or if they want to write on biology (like I do), will inform themselves beforehand and trust the general opinions of their colleagues in the life sciences.

    Also, Dr. Riddick seems to be a music theorist, and that’s altogether a different tribe from musicologists.

  29. #29 Militant Agnostic
    January 27, 2009

    Ah the old Evilutionists = Commies

    Next the emininent historian Dr. Riddick will no doubt inform us that Hitler was an atheist. It is quite an accomplishment to be ignornant in so many disparate fields.

  30. #30 Aseem
    January 27, 2009

    I wanted to kill somebody in a fit of rage when I read the letter on UD. I emailed PZ Myers to bring it to his attention and pharyngulize the post. And then I read it here. I am glad you blogged on it ERV. If Trinity Baptist invite an IDiot to put a damper on Darwin Day activities, we’ll take them by the horns.

  31. #31 vhutchison
    January 27, 2009

    #21, #24 Interesting that the post on UD about Dembksi’s previous visit to Oklahoma and his improper use of the Harvard film clip, etc., is now back! Perhaps they read #24 and want to try to be fair? If so, I give them a little credit, something I have not been able to say on anything in the past. They must check ERV constantly – also good for them.

  32. #32 Kristjan Wager
    January 28, 2009

    Every time one of the neo-Creationists refer to gulags, Stalin, Hitler etc. I can’t help think of Wesley R. Elsberry and Mark Perakh’s How Intelligent Design advocates turn the sordid hessons from Soviet and Nazi History upside down (.pdf)

    They got a lot of nerve still pushing that line.

  33. #33 Prometheus
    January 28, 2009

    “….and creationism (Leonard Brand [who?]).”

    Brand creeped away from Cornell with a bio PhD about forty years ago and has been teaching at L.L.U. His area of expertise is fossilized whales and what flavor of micro organisms they had for breakfast. Which oddly enough relates to the whole of the LLU curricula.

    LLU is a Seventh Day Adventist Health Science College which means they devote a lot of time to the wonders of the colonic. The path to eternal life is paved with fiber and abstinence from masturbation etc… John Harvey Kellogg, you know the shtick. LLU started out as a sanitarium for the morbidly constipated.

    Leonard would at least be interesting because of the Adventist ‘spin’ and because he will not turn loose of the word, creationist. I can see Dembski and Behe with their sleeves rolled up working him over with rubber hoses in a back room for that wedge strategy faux pas.

    He would be a hoot. I can’t help but think a lot of the impetus for the grand confluence of fruit loops is coming from Ed Blick.

  34. #34 FastLane
    January 29, 2009

    So since the Di is complaining that the Darwin celebrations aren’t including numbskulls from the ID side, it’s safe to say they’d be ok with calling up their favorite fundagelical church and complaining that they aren’t including any islamic sermons?


  35. #35 eddie
    January 29, 2009

    “…full range of opinion that is present within science…”


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