Posted by ERV on February 19, 2009
Its never wrong to stand up to Nazis.
Ever.
Ever.
*high-fives Hitchs non-crushed hand*
To those who say ‘he deserved it’, fuck you. If Hitch were a woman, those thugs would have brutally raped and killed ‘her’. You know it. I know it. Would ‘she’ have deserved it for standing up to Nazis? Fuck off!
No, it’s never wrong, in itself. Taking into account where you are, whether you can win, and how sober you are can be important, too.
I will never go carousing with Hitch in the Mid East. Not that I’ve been invited.
Hitchens has the biggest brass castinets EVAR! I just wish that that the thugs that beat him up could receive some kind of punishment for this act.
Lledowyn– that would occur in a civilized world. But none of this would have happened in a civilized world.
The bagel shop wouldnt have been run out of town by terrorists. The Nazis wouldnt have been able to put their swastika poster in the bagel shop. Hitch wouldnt have been moved to deface the Nazi poster. And no one would have gotten beat up.
Alas.
I know, it’s just depressing that places like this can still exist, and that people can behave like that without a second thought.
HalfMooner – read the goddamn link, Hitchens was not drunk. This story has been distorted out of recognition, mainly because the guys who can give a first-person account are waiting until they’re, y’know, safe before they talked about it. (Assuming the link itself is from a reliable source, ofc – I wouldn’t know him from Adam)
I had a lack of sympathy at first because of how he did it (swearing and grafitti and stuff), but basically the same thing would have happened however he tried to deface the poster.
If it had been me, I would probably have done the same (am known for rash acts of mild civil disobedience when my hackles are raised; and am even more known for not thinking things through properly) – the only difference is that I’m not as sprightly as him and would probably not have escaped a thorough kicking.
I say that Hitchens had every right to deface the Nazi poster. That poster has on property owned by Jews who I can’t imagine would object. That the Syrian government has tolerated such treatment of Jews says a lot about that government. The Syrian government should be pressured to remove the posters themselves.
If the Nazi assholes want freedom of expression in terms of posters, they should be limited to putting it on their own houses. That might be useful too, so neighbors would be without excuse and would know who should be treated as persona non grata.
Elwood: Illinois Nazis.
Jake: I hate Illinois Nazis.
What do they think of John Birchers?
Lets face it, Elwood and Jakes job is far from done. Or is this a job for more appropriate for Buzz Aldrin’s Conspiracy Smackdown.
/Okay violence even against Nazis and Birchers is unjustified (unless they use violence first)… still one can dream.
ERV
I think I’m developing a crush on you.
Well said!
You don’t want to see some of the comments on Pharyngula about this story.
Seems like a lot of people are using it as an example to show how right they are that Hitchens is an asshole.
Damn right he is!! He’s a witty, charming, rough and tumble, straight shooting, arrogant, asshole. That’s why I love him.
Let the chanting begin!
Hitch Hitch Hitch Hitch Hitch Hitch Hitch
Oh, Hitchens is an asshole. No question. He’s also not without at least some admirable qualities, this being one of them. And we’re acknowledging that on Pharyngula, as well.
I heard it was all an elaborate plot cooked up by Hitch when he realized he hadn’t bought anything for Carol and it was Valentine’s Day.
He tried to capture Syria’s pet Nazi war criminal SS Hauptsturmführer Alois Brunner and stuff him in a heart shape box with a bow.
Reading the account in the OP link doesn’t change my opinion much. Like the earlier account, it’s not a first-hand account, and it doesn’t deny that Hitch had some alcohol in him.
I suspect that when Hitchens tells the story, we’ll get the most truthful version, warts and all. He’s like that.
Neither version changed my existing attitude toward either Hitch or the SSNP. Hitch is still an asshole, and I still like him. His heart was in the right place, but his goddamn body was in Beirut. Nazis are still far, far worse than mere assholes, and I loathe ‘em.
I still won’t go drinking with him in Lebanon. (And with Hitch, drinking time is pretty much all the time, from most accounts.)
I agree that it’s never WRONG to stand up to Nazis. But that doesn’t negate the need for a sense of tactical awareness.
I might well have done what Hitchens did, if the circumstances were reasonably favorable. In a 1967 anti-Vietnam war protest in San Francisco, my friends and I were attacked by uniformed members of George Lincoln Rockwell’s American Nazi Party. It was all fisticuffs. (Picture a confused brawl in part of the street, with thousands of marchers passing by.)
The Nazis had attacked part of a huge peace march, but most of the marchers did not want to get involved in the fight. Eventually, though, enough of that minority marchers who hated Nazis stopped to get into the melee. The Nazis were increasingly getting their asses handed to them, and the police finally stepped in to protect the Nazis.
Lesson: The Nazis had a poor sense of tactical awareness.
Just a quick additional thought: Someone at PZ’s site remarked at the progress in Lebanon implied by the fact that Hitch survived his encounter, rather than just being shot outright or “disappeared.”
But it seems to me (from the OP’s link) that he escaped in a taxi just in time to avoid being beaten to death. The SSNP thugs hadn’t broken off the beating. I don’t doubt they were trying to kill him.
I know I’m very out of touch, but SYRIAN NAZIS?
What happened–did the Syrians give a whole locked ward a 72-hour pass or something?
BTW, I am relieved that Hitchens is OK. I don’t always agree with him, but we need his take-no-prisoners atheism.
I will pray for Christopher Hitchens’s speedy recovery.
Regarding the video, did I hear the word socialist?
I am much amused by how amenable your Pledge is to rewriting.
That can’t have been a subtle jab. Nope. Not subtle at all.
I heard last week on radio another instance of israelis charaaterising opposition to israeli policy as anti-semitic.
Apparrently only fascists oppose israel now.
Does anyone else find the concept of a Syrian Nazi party ironic? I’m sure Hitler had no higher opinion of Arabs or Muslims than he did of Jews – there just weren’t enough of them in western Europe at the time to focus his attention on.
I didn’t know Syria had much in the way of bars, either. And the fact that the frickin’ Nazis have to have watchers to keep their posters from being defaced is kind of encouraging. Congratulations Hitch!
Just as a point of note; the Syrian Social Nationalist Party is more of a left-wing nationalist party these days. It did start out as a right-wing organization that was modeled on the Nazi Party and the Afrikaaner fascist party in South Africa (thus, the flag and why their chant is akin to Deutscheland Uber Alles), and I’m sure quite a few party leaders still have their fascist admirations, but officially, the party switched alliances in the 70s when new youth movements started development.
These days, the only things that the SSNP share with the Nazis are probably aesthetics. With that said, they’re still assholes and I laughed, but I also don’t feel any sympathy for Hitchens because this was a retarded move. Actually, it kind of puts a smile on my face to hear that Hitchens had his ass kicked.
In short, I lol’d at the expense of both sides.
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