Can anyone name one anti-GMOer thats not a self-indulgent, arrogant moron?

Google News alerted me to this breathless expose by an Anne Hart: “Why farmed fish are genetically altered for faster growth with a carrier retrovirus

Now, for some reason I can only get this article via Google cache. Hopefully this means some editor pulled this article because its so mind numbingly stupid/arrogant/shrill. But somehow I doubt that.

Frequent readers of ERV could probably fix Harts ‘errors’ themselves, at this point, but Imagonna do it anyway :)

First, lets get this basic fact out of the way.

Raving anti-GMOer: Why farmed fish are genetically altered for faster growth with a carrier retrovirus

Reality: The FDA has approved NO transgenic animals for consumption. None. Zero.

Q. Have any transgenic fish been approved in the U.S.?

A. Transgenic fish of various species of salmon, tilapia, channel catfish and others are being actively investigated worldwide as possible new food-producing varieties. Technology developed for using transgenic fish as laboratory models to study developmental biology is being applied to food fish species with the aim of adding agronomically important traits, like improved growth rates and disease resistance.

No transgenic fish have been approved for producing food in the U.S., although a variety of transgenic fish species can be found in laboratories around the world. As there is active investigation of transgenic fish abroad, as well as in the U.S., the public and the research community are occasionally exposed to predictions of the imminent commercial release of transgenic fish into the food supply. This should not occur without the pre-market approval from CVM, for those fish that have an added gene-based animal drug.

Unless youre breaking into research facilities to ‘buy’ your ‘farm raised’ fish, this anti-GMO rant has no connection to reality.

But lets say 10 years from now, GMO fishies are on the market!

Yeah yeah, you dont want to eat a roid-raging fish because all animals were specially created by our Lord 6,000 years ago, and selectively breeding genetically modifying fish to be larger is an abomination against God.

Fine. Whatever.

But dont drag my retroviruses into your personal food preferences.

‘TEHY BE PUDDING CANKER VIRUS IN MAH FISH FUD!’ also has no connection to reality.

Farmed fish start out by having the rous sarcoma virus implanted into a specialized gene early in their embryonic development in order to amplify the fish’s growth hormone. The virus acts as a carrier. It’s called a vector (meaning a carrier virus). The farmed fish are made to grow faster and larger.

This specific rous sarcoma virus has been known since 1911 to cause cancer in chickens. See the article titled, “The Rous Sarcoma Virus (RSV).” For more information, also see The Cholersterol Hoax, by Sherry A. Rogers, M.D., page 193.

It’s an oncogenic virus — that is, a virus capable of causing cancer. This virus originally came from tumors of sick chickens back in 1911. The tumors were sarcomas, tumors of connective tissue. The virus was named the rous sarcoma virus (RSV) during those first 1911 experiments. Back then, healthy chickens were vaccinated with the virus from sick chickens that had cancer.

The purpose of the 1911 experiment showed that healthy chickens could be made to get cancer from a specific virus. The rous sarcoma virus is a retrovirus. Cancer can be induced in healthy chickens by injecting them with a cell-free extract of the tumor of a sick chicken.

You know how anti-GMOers were OMFGFREAKING over cauliflower mosaic virus in tomatoes? Scientists just steal viral promoters all the time for gene therapy and genetic modifications cause theyre super handy? Well thats what some scientists have done in the lab with fish. Stole a retroviral promoter, plopped it in front of the fish growth hormone, and YAY! Roid-raging fishies with lots of meat.

Even though they are using a viral promoter, there is no ‘infecting’ going on. There is nothing ‘viral’ about this kind of genetic modification– theyre just using a viral promoter. Like, I just stole a fluorescent protein from a jellyfish for my experiments. That doesnt mean my HIV-1 viruses float around looking for clown fish to eat, nor do I need to be worried about HIV nematocysts stinging me.

So while its certainly true some retroviruses can cause cancer just by the nature of their insertion, thats not going on in these GMO fish. And, the cancer causing agent in rous sarcoma virus is its ‘SRC‘ gene. If the SRC gene is not included in the genetic cassette (why the hell would scientists add that??), thats not gonna cause RSV tumors in fish.

‘Cancer virus’ has nothing to do with anything, but it sure is a handy scapegoat if you are anti-GMO!

There’s another problem. Aids also is a retrovirus.

OH, and AIDS. AIDS is also, evidently, a handy scapegoat. ‘Aids’ is not a retrovirus. ‘Aids’ are ‘assistants’. AIDS is a disease caused by a retrovirus. HIV-1 is a retrovirus. HIV-1 has jack shit to do with transgenic fish.

Aaaaand here we go with Evil Big Pharma Evil Monsanto Evil Food Producing Like People.

So are a lot of other tumor viruses taken from one animal and put into another. Why genetically alter fish with retroviruses just to increase the growth hormone? There’s a reason why farmed fish are implanted with the rous sarcoma virus in order to increase their growth hormones.

The faster and bigger farmed fish grow, the more money they make. Each business and each hired scientist has a reason for genetically engineering farmed fish.

HIRED scientists! Why I never! REAL scientists work for FREE making vaccines to kill babies!

Hired scientists! Harumph!

But theres MORE!

But there’s more. Omega 6 fatty acids replace much of the omega 3 fatty acids in farmed fish.

You’ll find more omega 3 fatty acids in wild caught fish than you’ll find in genetically engineered farmed fish. The elevated levels of omega 6 fatty acids in farmed fish keep rising year after year, replacing the omega 3 fatty acids. Part of the reason why is because farmed fish are fed increasingly more commercial soybean pellets that contain pesticides.

The soybean pellets also have been genetically engineered (unless you’re raising fish yourself and feeding them organic fish foods). The commercial soybean pellets fed to farmed fish are full of pesticides such as Roundup that originally had been sprayed on the commercial soybean pellets along with other commercial insecticides, sometimes even with herbicides (for getting rid of weeds around the soybeans) and various pesticides.

All those GMO fish that you arent buying at the grocery store because they havent been approved by the FDA? THEY DONT HAVE AS MUCH OMEGA 3/6 FATTY ACID… BECAUSE OF MOAR GMOS!!!!

WTF?

Where is she getting this info?

Fail boat keeps on sailin:

The irradiation of farmed fish not only destroys the bad bacteria. It also neutralizes some of the vitamins. So now you have fewer vitamins in farmed fish than in wild fish. When you get the cheaper farmed fish home, perhaps the fish are microwaved.

Now the fish coming out of the microwave oven has had all the antioxidants destroyed

WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE ANTIOXIDANTS???? YOURE KILLING THEM! YOURE KILLING THEM!!!!

Jesus tapdancing Christ.

Thank gawd she finishes this trainwreck the same way every kook finishes an article: Buy my book.

For more info: browse my books, How Nutrigenomics Fights Childhood Type 2 Diabetes & Weight Issues (2009) or Predictive Medicine for Rookies (2005). Or see my books, How to Safely Tailor Your Foods, Medicines, & Cosmetics to Your Genes (2003) or How to Interpret Family History & Ancestry DNA Test Results for Beginners (2004) or How to Open DNA-driven Genealogy Reporting & Interpreting Businesses. (2007). Check out my free audio lecture on Internet Archive, How nutrigenomics fights childhood type 2 diabetes.

Lady, I dont believe one goddamned word that comes outta your head.

Comments

  1. #1 Bob O'H
    June 25, 2009

    Years ago someone sent me an article from an Aussie newspaper, about the threats from antibiotic resistance genes in GMOs. Apparently if we eat the food containing them, we’ll get the genes too, and become resistant to antibiotics. So medicines won’t work.

  2. #2 Sili
    June 25, 2009

    I’m pretty damn sure one of the wooooo-y websites recommended flax-seed oil to everyone exactly because fish wouldn’t give them enough – wait for it – omega-6!

    Personally, I’d rather eat GMO fish/cloned cattle than I’d try a beef that has indeed been raised on roids.

    (Of course, I actually buy ‘organic’ milk and oats so …)

  3. #3 JohnV
    June 25, 2009

    This isn’t really exactly related, but check out this comment on effect measure (number 8) suggesting that GMO potatoes are the cause of swine flu (really)

    http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/06/influenza_season_part_2.php#comments

    I didn’t go to webpage that guy linked cause I was scared what it would expose me and my computer to, but I’m sure it’s a riot.

  4. #4 D. C. Sessions
    June 25, 2009

    Can anyone name one anti-GMOer thats not a self-indulgent, arrogant moron?

    A few — like half the population of Europe. Like most people, they aren’t into actually researching questions, so if their news sources (who also aren’t big on research) just pass along amplified versions of what the seriously passionate tell them, well …

  5. #5 techskeptic
    June 25, 2009

    Wow. this sentence…

    Part of the reason why is because farmed fish are fed increasingly more commercial soybean pellets that contain pesticides.

    is a gish gallop. Are any of the claims presented here true?

    One single sentence makes the following claims:

    Farmed fish are fed increasingly more pellets
    Farmed fish are fed increasingly more pellets made from soy bean
    Soybean pellets contain pesticides
    The pesticides they contain are in relevent concentrations to be harmful
    Any or all of the above claims have something to do with the (claimed) change in Omega 3/6 ratio

    wow, just wow.

  6. #6 becca
    June 25, 2009

    Bob O’H- we don’t use many antibiotics that are toxic to humans (i.e. we are already antibiotic resistant). The rates of inter-kingdom horizontal gene transfer are difficult to study, but putting transgenic *bacteria* out there with antibiotic resistance genes is generally viewed as a Bad Thing . Of course, there are already laws about it (bleach your e coli, people!) and it has nothing particularly to do with the food supply.
    (for more worrisome potential antibiotic resistance problems the food supply see: using antibiotics to boost poultry growth in factory farms)
    Sili- Nah, even woooooy websites can keep the 6′s and 3′s straight (“The average american diet is more around 1:20 to 1:50, with way too much Omega 6 and not enough Omega 3. The ratio present in Flaxseed oil is about 4:1.” -http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/flaxseed.htm)

    ERV- actually, higher 6:3 ratios can be affected by fishy diet. Feeding fish other fish or algae can provide a ~20x enrichment toward the threes (“omega 3 eggs” seem to come from linseed or rapeseed oil in chicken food, and that works well because the enrichment ~40x). (J Nutr Health Aging. 2005 Jul-Aug;9(4):232-42. “Where to find omega-3 fatty acids and how feeding animals with diet enriched in omega-3 fatty acids to increase nutritional value of derived products for human: what is actually useful ?” Bourre JM.)
    So, there is at least a plausible mechanism there.

    However, it does not appear that the data support the idea that farmed fish are actually any less healthy on average than wild fish, and it’s harder to keep mercury low in wild fish (Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2004 Feb;14(1):34-41. Farmed and wild fish in the prevention of cardiovascular diseases: assessing possible differences in lipid nutritional values. Cahu C, Salen P, de Lorgeril M.)

  7. #7 Prometheus
    June 25, 2009

    So when will the transgenic frankenspudfish be available?

    Just drain the pond fill it with oil and light it up.

    Fish and chips for everybody!

    Science is exiting.

  8. #8 wazza
    June 25, 2009

    Actually, if I remember correctly, plant Frankenfooders use a bacteria which causes cancer… in oak trees

    Salmon that are modified to grow big don’t do it because of an increase in hormones, either. A technique that was investigated in New Zealand involved inserting a gene for a natural antifreeze, so they could grow in colder climates (I think they got it from a fish that lives near Antarctica), and the fish ended up growing twice as big, presumably because they weren’t wasting any energy freezing their butts off.

  9. #9 Cathy Sander
    June 26, 2009

    Not to mention that we ‘eat’ a lot of bacteria and viruses along with our food…Tricky, these mircoscopic critters.

  10. #10 clinteas
    June 26, 2009

    somewhat OT :

    Hey Abbie,have ya seen this ?

    Structure and assembly of immature HIV

  11. #11 Hu
    June 26, 2009

    JohnV:

    I looked at the comment you mentioned and followed the link. Here’s the start:

    Scientists from Russia’s Ministry of Health are warning in a secret report to Prime Minister Putin that they have discovered a ‘critical link’ between the H1N1 influenza (Swine Flu) virus and genetically modified amylopectin potatoes that are consumed in massive quantities nearly exclusively by Westerners and sold in fast food restaurants as French Fries.

    According to these reports, the protease enzyme genetically modified in the potatoes being sold through Western fast food restaurants as French Fries to protect against Potato virus X causes an “explosive” replication of the H1N1 influenza virus by increasing the acidic conditions of the endosome and causing the hemagglutinin protein to rapidly fuse the viral envelope with the vacuole’s membrane, then causing the M2 ion channel to allow protons to move through the viral envelope and acidify the core of the virus, which causes the core to dissemble and release the H1N1’s RNA and core proteins into the hosts cells.

    Oh my dog! A secret top level report from Russia! And all that sciency stuff in the second paragraph! It MUST be true! And I walked past some potatoes at the grocery store just today! I surely contracted a spud infection! Help, I’m gonna die! Call the police fire department ambulance coroner!

    On a more serious note, it crossed my mind that the scientific-sounding part could actually be a more or less accurate description of how influenza viruses infect cells even without genetically modified potatoes. Can someone confirm or deny my hunch? I know very little about viruses, but I’m willing to learn.

  12. #12 JohnV
    June 26, 2009

    I’m pretty excited that I never followed that link, because I probably would have died trying to read it.

  13. #14 ERV
    June 26, 2009

    hahahahaha Hart is in Mensa hahahahahahaha!

  14. #15 Prometheus
    June 26, 2009

    “genetically modified amylopectin potatoes that are consumed in massive quantities nearly exclusively by Westerners and sold in fast food restaurants as French Fries.”

    Almost all fast food fries are made by ConAgra.

    They’re russets.

    Plain russets.

    The spuds they are talking about (GMO version or via selection) are for bulk potato starch.

    Oh and they don’t feed fish soy pellets. They are 70% wheat with fish meal, seaweed, soy and other stuff.

    The soy makes the pellets less soluble so they float longer and you get a better idea of how much and how well the fish are eating.

    Oh and of course it makes it easier for Victor Von Frankenstein to keeel der kinder mit de feeesh stikz.

  15. #16 M. Davis
    June 26, 2009

    “All those GMO fish that you arent buying at the grocery store because they havent been approved by the FDA? THEY DONT HAVE AS MUCH OMEGA 3/6 FATTY ACID… BECAUSE OF MOAR GMOS!!!!

    WTF?”

    Great argument! NOT! Spin for Monsanto!
    It’s clear to me that she is referring to legally sold farm fish in grocery stores that have been fed with GMOs. Replying in your condescending way (to us Luddites – NOT!)just nullifies all your arguments.

    Why can’t you understand that the arguments are all out there and we have read them and made up our own minds. We don’t want GMOs. No amount of bs from Monsanto and their minions can change that.

    What is telling is that Monsanto and their kind do not allow independent study, governments take the word of Monsanto research for fact. In fact they hide the bad news while lavishing praise on the good – which has turned out to be lies once again. Monsanto is ruining small farmers lives while polluting our waters. Monsanto wants world domination of the food supply – hence prices. And not least, there has never been an independent feeding trial as no one would chance it. However, we are all Guinea pigs as GMOs are in 70% of everything (most of us) eat, unless we raise and grow our own. And look at the illness rates. Why, now everyone is on some kind of Pharmaceutical drug! Lovely!
    p.s. Don’t scientists use apostrophes?

  16. #17 koan0215
    June 26, 2009

    OMG! Are you sure there aren’t any HIV nematocysts floating around? Because that would be scary! Painful and very, very scary!

  17. #18 MikeTheInfidel
    June 26, 2009

    LOL

    The whole bit about irradiation destroying vitamins and antioxidants is pure comedy gold. You get the same argument about microwaves from woo types, too.

  18. #19 TheDailyJokelahoman
    June 26, 2009

    So is invoking AIDs in a ridiculous argument the same as invoking Hitler and therefore making said stupid argument invalit?

  19. #20 JohnV
    June 26, 2009

    Minions of Monsanto!!!!

  20. #21 Prometheus
    June 26, 2009

    “Why can’t you understand that the arguments are all out there and we have read them and made up our own minds. We don’t want GMOs. No amount of bs from Monsanto and their minions can change that.”

    Oh give it a rest.

    “making up your own mind = latching on to “arguments” that consist of either the murky politicized dreck used to promulgate E.U. stealth tariffs posing as regulations or the deranged ramblings of celebrity fellating Aryuvedic third world poverty fetishists?

    I am The Monsantotron! Feed me the beating hearts of scrabble farmers and I will shit Doritos!

    Grow up.

  21. #22 Dr. Duke
    June 26, 2009

    “…pesticides such as Roundup…”

    Doh!! The idiot does not even know the difference between a pesticide and an herbicide.

  22. #23 Prometheus
    June 26, 2009

    “”…pesticides such as Roundup…”

    Doh!! The idiot does not even know the difference between a pesticide and an herbicide.”

    ….and the only herbicide you need thanks to Monsanto brand GMO Roundup Ready Soybeans.

    No more atrazine, metribuzin, and alachlor.

  23. #24 eddie
    June 28, 2009

    Run for your lives! Its the ‘EU stealth tarrifs’!
    Nutter.

  24. #25 Bayesian Bouffant, FCD
    June 28, 2009
  25. #26 MadScientist
    June 29, 2009

    I want a glow-in-the-dark gene in me! Different colors too – I want big glowing splotches of different colors!

  26. #27 M. Davis
    June 29, 2009

    The whole bit about irradiation destroying vitamins and antioxidants is pure comedy gold. You get the same argument about microwaves from woo types, too.
    Posted by: MikeTheInfidel | June 26, 2009 12:38 PM

    Before you post lies like this, take the time to find out from informed persons like your minister of agriculture, or your if in USA, from your representative in charge of agricultural matters. The truth is out there and I have a letter from govt. to prove it. Irradiation may destroy anywhere from 5 to 100% of nutrients. Not on purpose, of course, but many examples from the past prove again that things can and do go wrong.
    Just say NO! to GMOs!
    Monsanto is pure evil and greed. Millions over the world know that for a fact.

  27. #28 LanceR, JSG
    June 29, 2009

    This is gold! The logical fallacies contained in M. Davis’ post are textbook!

    1. Ad Hominem attacks: “Monsanto is pure evil and greed” “Before you post lies” Yes, I do understand ad hominem. When there is no actual argument being made, attacking the person/corporation is a classic fallacy.

    2. Argument from (false) authority. “I have a letter from govt. to prove it.” “informed persons like your minister of agriculture”

    3. “Something bad happened once, therefore I’m right!” I’m sure there’s a better name for it, but whenever some woo-meister claims “Science was wrong before” it’s a sure bet that they have no actual argument. They just want you to stop thinking about their lack of evidence. “many examples from the past prove again that things can and do go wrong”.

    4. Argumentum ad Populum The appeal to popularity is always bogus. Just because the majority of people believe a thing does not make it true. It may be that the majority of people are idiots. “Millions over the world know that for a fact”.

    Four major fallacies in one paragraph and two single lines. All they missed would be a conspiracy claim, and I’d have filled my LunaticBingo(tm) card.

  28. #29 W. Kevin Vicklund
    June 29, 2009

    Irradiation may destroy anywhere from 5 to 100% of nutrients.

    So does canning, aging, cold storage, pasteurization, etc. Not to mention the horrors of actually cooking the food. So unless you are in the position to eat all of your food straight from the vine, the vitamins will be reduced. I’m not in that position, and I’d rather have good food that still has plenty of vitamins than starve on principle.

  29. #30 Prometheus
    June 29, 2009

    Dear Representative in Charge of Agricultural Matters,

    I would like a letter from the government that explains irradiation, nutrients and why my fillings keep picking up Petula Clark songs.

    Love and mounds of kisses,

    Concerned Citizen

  30. #31 Michelle
    June 29, 2009

    Funny you should mention it. I just purchased my brand new Vitamin-Neutralizing Super Powered Ray Gun(tm)!

    Also: “Part of the reason why is because” Ow, ow, ow!

    Your poor retroviruses and my poor English language.

  31. #32 M. Davis
    June 29, 2009

    “1. Ad Hominem attacks: “Monsanto is pure evil and greed” “Before you post lies” Yes, I do understand ad hominem. When there is no actual argument being made, attacking the person/corporation is a classic fallacy.

    2. Argument from (false) authority. “I have a letter from govt. to prove it.” “informed persons like your minister of agriculture”

    3. “Something bad happened once, therefore I’m right!” I’m sure there’s a better name for it, but whenever some woo-meister claims “Science was wrong before” it’s a sure bet that they have no actual argument. They just want you to stop thinking about their lack of evidence. “many examples from the past prove again that things can and do go wrong”.

    4. Argumentum ad Populum The appeal to popularity is always bogus. Just because the majority of people believe a thing does not make it true. It may be that the majority of people are idiots. “Millions over the world know that for a fact”.

    Four major fallacies in one paragraph and two single lines. All they missed would be a conspiracy claim, and I’d have filled my LunaticBingo(tm) card.”
    Posted by: LanceR, JSG | June 29, 2009 11:36 AM
    ______________

    Above are all the arguments made by minions of Monsanto and their kind. They pay those people to write in to forums like this to dupe the public with “science”. Science is wonderful but like Mount Everest, things are done “because I can” by some scientists. Many other scientists not so easily used and bought, refute those claims. You are paid to make Joe Averages look like Luddites. Too bad you don’t have an original thought in your mind. We know your kind. There are always those who just don’t get it, especially where greed is involved, not to mention unwillingness to do a little research. Or is just simply unconsciousness!

  32. #33 Patrick
    June 30, 2009

    LanceR & M. Davis

    “1. Ad Hominem attacks: “Monsanto is pure evil and greed” “Before you post lies” Yes, I do understand ad hominem. When there is no actual argument being made, attacking the person/corporation is a classic fallacy.

    2. Argument from (false) authority. “I have a letter from govt. to prove it.” “informed persons like your minister of agriculture”

    3. “Something bad happened once, therefore I’m right!” I’m sure there’s a better name for it, but whenever some woo-meister claims “Science was wrong before” it’s a sure bet that they have no actual argument. They just want you to stop thinking about their lack of evidence. “many examples from the past prove again that things can and do go wrong”.

    4. Argumentum ad Populum The appeal to popularity is always bogus. Just because the majority of people believe a thing does not make it true. It may be that the majority of people are idiots. “Millions over the world know that for a fact”.

    Four major fallacies in one paragraph and two single lines. All they missed would be a conspiracy claim, and I’d have filled my LunaticBingo(tm) card.”
    Posted by: LanceR, JSG | June 29, 2009 11:36 AM

    Pharma shill! PHARMA SHILL!!!!!!

  33. #34 Patrick
    June 30, 2009


    Pharma shill! PHARMA SHILL!!!!!!

    Monsanto shill! MONSANTO SHILL!!!!!

    (Sorry about that: one evil conspiracy bent on the destruction of the 70% of the world that’s alive thanks to them starts to look much like another, after a while.)

  34. #35 JohnV
    June 30, 2009

    @LanceR,

    I wonder if he realizes that by repeating the “minions of monsanto” claim, in direct response to you no less!, he completed your bingo card? :p

  35. #36 LanceR, JSG
    June 30, 2009

    Bingo! I win! I win!

    M Davis, you are delusional. I have no stake in Monsanto, GMOs, or fish farming. If you can’t argue the issues, attack your opponent, right?

    You do understand the concept of a “Logical Fallacy”, right? Those are mistakes that people make when they try to construct an argument. They generally mean that the person doesn’t really know what he’s talking about, and he’s just making shit up to sound good. Or that he’s 12.

    Attacking me makes you right… how again?

  36. #37 Prometheus
    June 30, 2009

    #27 & #32 M.Davis

    ~”Before you post lies like this, take the time to find out from informed persons like your minister of agriculture, or your if in USA, from your representative in charge of agricultural matters. The truth is out there and I have a letter from govt. to prove it.”~

    Are you posting from the Duchy of Grand Fenwick or something?

    What the hell does that even mean?

    Who gets letters from the Bundesgesundheitminister of Valkenvania regarding nutrients?

    ~”Above are all the arguments made by minions of Monsanto and their kind. They pay those people to write in to forums like this to dupe the public with “science”.”~

    WTF. The Monsanto reps I know like to get drunk and play dominoes. They don’t lurk on science blogs diluting ERV’s special messages of peace and tolerance.

    Have you ever met anybody who works for Monsanto?

    Wanna buy some wheat?

    It’s delicious.
    It’s cheap.
    It glows in the dark.

  37. #38 M. Davis
    June 30, 2009

    Prometheus, under the Freedom of Information Act, one need only ask – and get it in writing.
    Don’t know any Monsanto reps, but apparently you do. Friends of yours?
    Wheat is not yet Genetically Modified, so I guess it’s only your “fishy wheat” that glows in the dark.
    —-
    Not here to argue with anyone (unless they lie!) just stating my opinion. Eating well and healthy, and living in a healthy environment is my only non-monetary motive.

  38. #39 LanceR, JSG
    June 30, 2009

    And of course, the last square in my LunaticBingo(tm) card. Running away in the face of opposition. “Not here to argue with anyone”

    When the TrueBeliever(tm) is faced with arguments that he can’t refute, and evidence he can’t ignore, he *invariably* takes his ball(s) and goes home.

    Bingo! What do I win??

  39. #40 Prometheus
    June 30, 2009

    A 900 million dollar grant from the department of agriculture to produce genetically modified wheat under a legal definition to which EU regulation 1829/2003 does not apply and a congratulatory letter from his excellency Der Frakenfooden Minister.

  40. #41 Prometheus
    June 30, 2009

    P.S. for LanceR

    Your #3 is the boogeyman fallacy aka argumentum ad metum.

    In advertising they call it a FUD.

    I.E.

    Selling people worthless shit by exploiting ‘fear uncertainty and doubt’.

  41. #42 LanceR, JSG
    June 30, 2009

    Great. All that work, and I win a grant to study wheat. And I’m not a… wheat… studying… guy. (I know. Researcher. But it’s funnier my way.) Another thing I can’t use.

    Thanks… boogeyman fallacy. I like it!

  42. #43 Sascha
    July 1, 2009

    So let me get this straight: there’s no conspiracy by the evil Monsanto to take over the world (cue evil laughter and nasal mutterings about fools and little do they know) but the EU is conspiring to keep the good fairy GMO of the West (birds and squirrels fill screen with uplifting disney score in background) out of Europe?

    I would like to see some evidence the EU is being unreasonable. Why get the gender neutral undergarments all wrapped up because the EU wants to assess GMO’s on a case by case basis. If the product is found to be safe for humans and the environment then it will be approved for the market. So what if it took a WTO (cue more evil laughter) panel ruling to get Europe to give up its moratorium, as if the US was incapable of twisting trade law and science to further it’s own narrow interests.

    Do you think the anorak wearing, pendulum carrying, crystal gazing crowd has more influence in Europe. I wouldn’t know, but judging by the kookiness floating across from your side of the pond, I’d be careful before pointing fingers.

  43. #44 Prometheus
    July 1, 2009

    Hooray! Sacha is back.

    ~>”So let me get this straight: there’s no conspiracy by the evil Monsanto to take over the world (cue evil laughter and nasal mutterings about fools and little do they know) but the EU is conspiring to keep the good fairy GMO of the West (birds and squirrels fill screen with uplifting disney score in background) out of Europe?”< ~

    Of course they want to take over the world but they can’t because they have the mutated sucky business model that Corinne Maier described in “Bonjour paresse”.

    In order to be the insidious corporate supervillians described, they would first have to be competent. Competent companies don’t get sued every thirty minutes. They would then have to ingratiate themselves to the public. Since everybody hates or is scared of them and watching them carefully, they are not capable of doing the damage or engaging in the machinations attributed to them.

    ~>“I would like to see some evidence the EU is being unreasonable. Why get the gender neutral undergarments all wrapped up because the EU wants to assess GMO’s on a case by case basis. If the product is found to be safe for humans and the environment then it will be approved for the market. So what if it took a WTO (cue more evil laughter) panel ruling to get Europe to give up its moratorium, as if the US was incapable of twisting trade law and science to further it’s own narrow interests.”< ~

    I don’t think protecting self interest is unreasonable. The 2003 EU GMO regulations were a response to the successful implementation of Roundup Ready crop lines (transgenic glyphosate resistance). Faced with corporate hyperbole about potential North American cost to yield ratios, European domestic food producers already at breaking-point subsidy levels and Frankenfood activists were able to unite and the EU could promulgate regulation under the portmanteau of public interest while protecting the elaborate delicate and expensive system of domestic food production and inter-member trade.

    Tactical genius. Accommodate every interest and U.S. agri business can’t say shit about it with “do it for the children” out front.

    The result was that we (producers) advised Monsanto we had no interest in the Roundup Ready Wheat in development because we had no market in Europe.

    Monsanto shut down transgenic glyphosate resistant wheat R&D in 2004.
    *Euro-food high five*
    *US Wheat high five*
    *Anti-GMO high-five*

    Wait a minute......that was too easy.

    Yep.

    Monsanto transgenic glyphosate resistant wheat didn’t work and they couldn’t make it work.

    It was all marketing. Corn and soy are easy. Those opportunistic weeds are not soy or corn relatives.

    Wheat weeds are so close they cross breed. The transgenic resistance jumped the fence like crazy into jointed goat grass and the other devils that cost about 60 million a year. They shut down a program that was failing anyway. Duhhh

    Meanwhile the EU regs were tailored to restrict a product that never came to fruition (heh). The cereal genomics guys are just using different procedures that fall through the definitional cracks and you probably ate GMOs for breakfast.

    I wasn't kidding about that 900 million dollar USDA grant. It's rolling now.

    ~>”Do you think the anorak wearing, pendulum carrying, crystal gazing crowd has more influence in Europe. I wouldn’t know, but judging by the kookiness floating across from your side of the pond, I’d be careful before pointing fingers.”<~

    You are right. Our loonies are loonier than your loonies (with the possible exception of Great Britain).

    P.S. Curious about your opinion in the Egg Thread. I don’t make oocytes so I only get to be curious about the opinions of those that do. What does Switzerland think?

  44. #45 Sascha
    July 1, 2009

    Promotheus,

    That’s a twist I’ll have to look into. So all this time Wonderly and Thursby were doublecrossing each other and playing both ends against the middle with Cairo and the Fat Man for a pound of lead?

    And do all supervilleins have to be competent? I thought evilness was the sole requirement.

    I’ll post Heidi’s views on the egg question in the egg thread.