Just, turn off your brain before you read this post, folks.

If you try to to think about this, Im pretty sure your entire brain will hemorrhage, and I dont want to be responsible for that.

You think I am joking.

I am not.

I actually heard rumors about what Im going to type here today a week ago, but I didnt write it because I thought it was just an internet rumor. It was too stupid to be real life.

And yet, after verifying the info, here I am. It is true.

*blink*

*deepbreath*

Okay.

Companies like Pepsi, Frito-Lay, Trident– they take their food flavor/food additive/food everything very seriously. Every new flavor of pop or chip or chewing gum you have encountered is the end result science. They used science to determine/create/execute the way the product smells, tastes, feels, packaged, shelf-life, and a gazillion things I have not mentioned because I dont know everything.

We could have gotten a peak into the behind the scenes science of Pepsi, but lots of people who were at SciBlogs are fucking idiots.

Anyway, this ‘science’ isnt just mixing a bunch of stuff together, taking it to a group of folks, and asking them if it tastes good. Its science, which means it involves PCR and cell culture and kits from Invitrogen and Qiagen and such. Lab work like what I do every day.

One of the cells that I use literally every day are HEK 293 cells (technically, HEK 293T cells). They are great work horses for growing up stocks of HIV-1 to use in experiments, or to grow proteins to radiolabel, hard workers and really easy to manipulate.

Im not the only person on Planet Earth who uses these these guys– lots of people do. I would hazard to guess that most labs who do any kind of mammalian cell tissue culture use 293 cells. Which means, of course, that some of the labs Pepsi uses, like Senomyx, use 293 cells:

Senomyx is discovering and developing innovative flavor ingredients for the food, beverage, and ingredient supply industries using our unique proprietary technologies. We believe that our novel flavors, flavor enhancers, and bitter blockers will enable our collaborators to improve the nutritional profile of their products and/or achieve a competitive advantage maintaining or enhancing taste.

Cooooool! I actually never thought about a job like this for a career, but it looks freaking awesome, and IN SAN DIEGO, and AWESOME.

AWESOME!

So why am I bringing this up on ERV?

Okay, are your brains off?

I swear to god, you need to turn them off.

Okay…

Im bringing this up because mentally handicapped radical Christian Oklahoma State Senator Ralph Shortey thinks that scientists doing experiments in the lab with HEK 293 cells means there are aborted fetuses in food.

Excuse me, to be precise, NOT ONLY DOES HE THINK IT MEANS THERE ARE ABORTED FETUSES IN FOOD, ‘ITS BEYOND THAT’.:

“People are thinking that this has to do with fetuses being chopped up and put in our burritos,” Shortey told NewsOK. “”That’s not the case. It’s beyond that.”

It really is. There is relatively no content to the bill, except homeboy wants to ban any food where 293s had any role, no matter how remote:

No person or entity shall manufacture or knowingly sell food or any other product intended for human consumption which contains aborted human fetuses in the ingredients or which used aborted human fetuses in the research or development of any of the ingredients.

If you destroy everything that involves 293 cells, you destroy 40 years worth of biomedical research and centuries of future research, including research going on right down the street of the OK Capitol at OUHSC and OMRF (example: That new fangled gene therapy stuff that has been treating/curing shit left and right? We use 293 cells to grow up the viruses needed for these treatments).

But Ol Ralphie is real pro-life, you see.

*PUKE*

Here is the pure, unadulterated source of insanity from ‘Life News‘:

As recently as May, Pepsi ignored concerns and criticism from dozens of pro-life groups and tens of thousands of pro-life people who voiced their opposition to PepsiCo contracting with biotech company Senomyx even after it was found to be testing their food additives using fetal cells from abortions.

Heh.

From Pepsi:

“Unfortunately, there is some misinformation being circulated related to research techniques that have been used for decades by universities, hospitals, government agencies, and private companies around the world. These claims are meant to suggest that human fetal tissue is somehow used in our research,” wrote Margaret Corsi, a spokesperson for PepsiCo. “That is both inaccurate and something we would never do or even consider. It also is inaccurate to suggest that tissue or cells somehow are being used as product ingredients. That’s dangerous, unethical and against the law. Every ingredient in every one of our products is reviewed and approved for use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.”

Clearly, as an Evil Scientist, Mad Evilutionist, and all around Demon Atheist, I have to now withdraw my support for the Pepsi Corporation. I was under the impression that my consuming Mountain Dew was not only supporting the death of beautiful children of God, but that I was also physically consuming the little angels bodies, if not souls.

Now theyre telling me there are no aborted fetuses in my beloved Mountain Dew? Fuck that shit!

And fuck Ralph Shortey.

Huge wall of text/copypasta from a response he left to a high school friend on Facebook (a Facebook friend who was pissed off about this ‘bill’). All emphasis is mine, and my comments are in parentheses:

I appreciate your attention to my carrer I am humbled that you have kept up with me since our days in high school together. I would like to respond to your comments and clear up any misconceptions. First the information that I have been gathering for months on this issue should not be classified as “false” (Youre right. ‘Stupid’ is the more appropriate term). The fact is we dont know what companies use in the research and development of their products. There is nothing compelling a company to release that info. As you have stated “all the companies cited in the original article denied the claims”. If they were using this controversial method then of course they would deny it, it is a public relations nightmare (Again, youre right. It would be a nightmare because lots of people are as stupid as you, Ralphie). If they aren’t then they dont have to worry about it (If they are they dont have to worry about it either, just like researchers for the past 40 years havent worried about it). The fact is with all the info I have gathered it is a real possibility that certain cells of aborted human fetuses are used in the research and development of artificial flavor enhancers (Its not ‘a real possibility’. They DO. Thousands of researchers all over the world use those cells. No one cares except for dumbasses like Ralphie and his crew). Do they use them? I don’t know and they are under no obligation to say. I am sure plenty of people did not believe some of the extensive animal testing that went on to develop consumable products until it was revealed (Yeah, I bet youre a real animal welfare proponent, Ralph). I am sure that the website owners that you referenced in your post would be proud that you explicitly trust their information since you have used their article as the basis for your post.

However, The information they have provided in their article is not relevant. One, there is no ban or has there ever been a ban from researching embryonic stem cells. There was a ban on providing federal money to do so, which many scientist feel hampered their research because they were spending so much time trying to find private sources of money (Yeah, THATS why scientists were pissed off. Idiot). So to say that this type of research is illegal is in and of itself false. There is nothing stopping a company from using aborted human fetuses in their R&D. The other falacy in the article you referenced gives me a lot more credit than I probably deserve. To say that I am using this as some kind of attempt to ban stem cell research through some kind of loophole is not true. If i wanted to ban stem cell research in Oklahoma then I would.(I know you would try. You try all the time. Making killing babies a misdemeanor. DERP!) There will be a bill this year doing that very thing which I plan to vote yes on (DEEEEERP!). If you don’t believe me then I would be more than happy to author a bill banning stem cell research in the state of Oklahoma. I don’t need to do some kind of back handed bill to do that, I believe there would be enough support in Oklahoma to have a ban. However, this bill would not be sufficient to do that, nor is that its intention. That moves me to the next falacy in the article you referenced. I am not concerned about these companies using stem cells in the R&D of their products. Nor does the bill specifically say “stem cells”. From the research I have done I cannot see where a company developing artificial flavors would benefit from using stem cells. Embryonic stem cells are extracted from the embryo ussually before the embryo is 5 days old and are the cells that in simplest form can become “any cell”. Stem cells, would not benefit a copmany trying to use them to develope food products probably because of the cost but also because it would be unneccessary. From the information I have been able to find, there is a real possibility that companies are using develpoed fetuses well past the viability of stem cells and specifically using the developed kidney cells of aborted babies in their R&D. (Im sorry, but I about pissed myself reading Ralphie try to talk all sciency with all those typos). If they are using “cloned” kidney cells then they are not using “aborted human fetuses” and the ban would not apply to them (God you are an idiot).

Additionally, the website you referenced stated themselves that if companies were doing this kind of research then it would be “unethical to use stem cells in such a manner, it’s also illegal under US law (and disgusting).” I agree with them on the unethical and disgusting part but disagree on the illegal part. It would be perfectly legal if a company wanted to use this kind of research. Well, i don’t think that using aborted human babies in that manner is ethical or even should be an option for a company, and if my bill is passed then it would not be an option in this state (But you didnt take into account the fact you are a moron, and no one on Earth can trust what youre little brain ‘thinks’). The article you referenced talked about the embryos generated by in vitro fertilization. They said it would be a waste to “throw away” the embyos created that weren’t used by the parents so we might as well use them for stem cell research. Again, my bill has nothing to do with stem cell research or the use of undeveloped embryos and we can have a ethical or philosophical disagreement on whether or not an embryo should be used for stem cell research. However, my bill deals specifically with a company using a developed human fetus (baby in my book) and specific organ cells from that aborted child to develop better tasting artificial flavors (Which has nothing to do with 293 cells. Y U SO STUPID?). I think the practice is disgusting and if any company is doing it then their consumers deserve to know. I also think that it should not even be an option when there are so many other alternatives out there.

Lastly, A couple more points to finish my rant. I do not believe everything I read on the internet and do my best to verify everything I can.(‘Everything’ except talk to any of the hundreds of scientists who work literally 3 blocks away at OUHSC) This is one of those things that I have spent a lot of time researching. (Which just makes this all the more sad. You worked so hard, and youre still so dumb) In the new world of fast paced technology research techniques like this are ever present and readily avaliable. I have an ethical aversion to using aborted children as commodities. (Again, which has NOTHING to do with 293 cells) They first did not have a choice to live then when they were killed against their will they have no choice in how their bodies are used. (Insert anti-war comment here) What if we did this to every person who dies. (Sounds wonderful. Donating everyones bodies to science sounds beautiful, especially when compared to the lavish, garish displays of wealth and fear of death you see at Christian funerals, and the added waste of land and resources and the waste of letting the body rot) If you follow the thinking of a person who believes it is a waste to throw away an embryo or a fetus because of the research possibilities, then wouldn’t a logical conclusion be to force everyone to become organ donors or that everyone must donate their bodies to science or medicine when they die? (Yes.) The only difference here is that these babies are not protected under law or our constitution. They have no civil liberties because they have not been born yet. And since there is nothing restricting a companies use or exploitation of aborted babies then a company only thinking of how to create a profit and no moral implications will use and exploit these aborted fetuses if they can find financial gain in doing so. (A Republican is anti-business? Anti-Capitalism? REALLY? lol) Ultimatly, I would like to see our governemt start to protect the unborn and innocent. (Neat. I would like to see real live babies get food, health care, and education here in Oklahoma. Too bad you spend so much time ‘researching’ stupid shit on the internet instead of worrying about the real kids, huh Ralphie) There are plenty of people who disagree with me on that and there are plenty that agree with me. Until such a time, if ever, I will do what I can to advance protections for the unborn. (And fuck over as many living creatures as possible in the process) This is simply a way to say, you may feel it is ethical to destroy an unborn child but I do not think it is ethical to use that life to make a profit. Is this research going on? Maybe, mabe not. Is it a possibility? I think so. Should it be an option? I dont think so. We will see if my colleagues agree with me.

One last point… On a bit of a personal note. We do a lot of “wasting time” in the legislature, last year there was a bill to make the official state gospel song “Swing low Sweet chariots”. Before I voted for this bill I made the author sing it with me on the senate floor. We sang together and it passed. Was this a waste of time? Maybe, maybe not, we got out of session a week early and got all of our business done for the year. (All babies in Oklahoma have enough food to eat, have top-notch education, and adequate health care! YAY! Oh wait, no they dont, but Ralphies business was ‘done’. Asshole) I do not feel that this bill will be a waste of time. (Again, you really need to always remember that you are an idiot, so you cant really trust what you ‘feel’ or ‘think’) You may have a different set of standards than I do and you may not like the bill but to suggest that because we will spend time deliberating this then we will be unable to deliberate any other issue facing this state is disingenuous to say the least. We always make sure that all of the business before the legislature is complete before we adjorn. If it means long nights or weekends then we will do it. We may not like the results, but the work will get done (Except for work that ACTUALLY helps babies and children.). I hope this helps clear me of the ethical violations that you feel I have infringed upon, however, I may never be able help you feel less appauled at my election because I will not change my principles or standards. I also will not resign because I plainly told my constituents what my beliefs were and they elected me by a 60% margin in a very democrat district (There is no such thing as a ‘very democrat district’ in Oklahoma, Mr ‘Disingenuous’). I will continue to do what I think is in the best interest of my district and also of the state. If you disagree with me then I invite you to run for office and have open and cordial debate about these issues.(Exactly what the former president of OKC Atheists is doing) If you think I am not good for this state then you have every right to go talk to my constituents on their door steps or on the phone about why they should not elect me in 2014. If they choose to fire me then so be it, but I have been fighting for these principles for years before I got elected and I will never remove myself from the fight even if I am no longer in office. As with anyone whom I have had political or philosophiocal disagreements with I hope that they do not affect personal relationships. I would hope that you keep that in mind. I considered you a friend in high school when our biology teacher would get ticked off at us playing card games in the back of the class room, and would still like to keep that mantra despite our differing thoughts.

Well. I think that last sentence really puts this all in perspective. Amazing how something so little can explain so much…

Comments

  1. #1 Mu
    January 26, 2012

    My state borders OK, is that kind of moronity contagious (sorry about having to make up a new word for it, I couldn’t find one strong enough that would pass the language filter)?

  2. #2 Bill Door
    January 26, 2012

    Does Mountain Dew throwback use 293 cells for taste? I think that formula was developed before Roe v. Wade…
    #1 Mu
    There’s a language filter? Fuck!

  3. #3 Justicar
    January 26, 2012

    Abbie, reading all of the links back to the Pepsi issue, I guess I have to come down hard on you here: sometimes, you’re like a pitbull I know named Sharky. Sorry, I had to say it. Try not to think less of me in the morning.

    “People are thinking that this has to do with fetuses being chopped up and put in our burritos,” Shortey told NewsOK. “”That’s not the case. It’s beyond that.”

    Yeah, way beyond that – some of them fetuses hadn’t even been aborted yet. Why do you think Cheetos look like little kid fingers, huh?

  4. #4 Blaine
    January 26, 2012

    Ohe Jesus! The wikipedia article you linked to about the HEK 293 cell now contains the following:

    HEK 293 has recently been used as flavor enhancers by Pepsico, Kraft, Hershey, Et al. Humans are not meant to be cannibals.

  5. #5 Bill Door
    January 26, 2012

    #4 Blaine
    Edited back already. That was fast.

  6. #6 DrDuke
    January 26, 2012

    The internet is serious business…

  7. #7 Epicanis
    January 26, 2012

    “[...]Humans are not meant to be cannibals.”

    But…then why do we taste like pork?

    Uh, or, you know, so I’ve heard.

    (Disclaimer: This is just an admittedly-tasteless joke posted in a moment of weakness. I do not actually advocate the eating of human flesh, adult or otherwise. For one thing, do you have any idea how much saturated fat and cholesterol those things have in them? For another: Kuru. Which perhaps brings us full-circle back to the discussion of the functionality of legislator’s brains and/or the lack thereof. I’d be upset, too, if I thought my brain was dissolving due to secret fetuses hidden in my Mountain Dew.)

  8. #8 Justicar
    January 26, 2012

    I’d be upset, too, if I thought my brain was dissolving due to secret fetuses hidden in my Mountain Dew.

    Now that Abbie’s blogged about it and Wikipedia knows, it’s no secret. I fully expect the fetuses to totally stop being hidden from now on. When drinking a Mountain Dew, like a bottle of Guinness, you’ll occasionally feel something touch your lips – and it won’t be an aerator doodad either.

  9. #9 Eric Lund
    January 26, 2012

    Mu@1: Not only is this kind of moronity [my spell checker actually doesn't complain about that word] contagious, it is probably transmittable through the internet. I’m about 2500 km northeast of OK, which is not far enough–although nobody in our state legislature has AFAIK proposed anything quite this stupid, there is a pending bill here to require new laws to point to language in the Magna Carta.

  10. #10 Justicar
    January 26, 2012

    lol@ Magna Carta!

    Does this mean we need to formally declare the working poor as serfs so that we can distinguish their rights at trial from the freeman’s rights at trial? We already can see that justice given to poor people is different than to rich people; might as well codify it right?

  11. #11 Justicar
    January 26, 2012

    Wittier response to the Magna Carta bill, by Michael F. Bell:

    If they think I’m sending back the Welsh hostages, well they’ve got another thin[k] coming.

  12. #12 mo (one of Abbies's elk)
    January 26, 2012

    I don’t know what he looks like, but I suspect he never shaved, got a haircut or clipped his nails, because that would be wasteful and unethical treatment of ceratinocytes.

  13. #13 Amenhotepstein
    January 26, 2012

    FUCK THAT! As a card-carrying Atheist, I DEMAND aborted fetal tissue in every can of my Pepsi Max!

    I want there to be enough babby bits in my soda that I can see them bobbing up and down with the bubbles!

  14. #14 Justicar
    January 26, 2012

    FUCK THAT! As a card-carrying Atheist, I DEMAND aborted fe[c]al tissue in every can of my Pepsi Max!
    I want there to be enough babby [sh]its in my soda that I can see them bobbing up and down with the bubbles!

    FTFY

  15. #15 toto
    January 26, 2012

    For those interested in how Pepsi-owned companies really develop their new products, Penny Arcade has the scoop…

  16. #16 wildlifer
    January 26, 2012

    My msg to him:
    I’m not going to “friend” you, just to tell you how much you’re acting like a buffoon. Every time I start to regain a little pride in my home state, it never fails someone like you, or Kern, or Inhofe or Brecheen raise your heads and demolish it. But it’s an election year right and you’ve got to pander to the fanatical base for votes. I understand the need for votes, I just don’t agree appealing to the lowest common denominator is an acceptable way to do so. The fact you admit to playing cards in biology class, rather than learning biology should have clued you in to the fact you have no standing or expertise to comment or pass laws on the subject. Perhaps you should enroll in some remedial high school classes to get yourself up to speed.

  17. #17 mordacious1
    January 26, 2012

    Actually, I think Shortey might be on to something. Evil scientists get stem cells from embryos and umbilical cords. Plants have stems. They make a lot of our food from plants. This all makes sense.

  18. #18 wildlifer
    January 26, 2012

    More good news…ugh:
    http://bit.ly/Axqcs2

    OKLAHOMA FOR DUMMIES? According to a 2011 study, recently picked up by news stations in Florida and Texas, Oklahoma is one of 10 states “running out of smart people.” The study examined reading and math scores, graduation rates and white collar job numbers to determine its conclusions.

  19. #19 Les lane
    January 26, 2012

    Speaking of the Magna Carta, here’s an interesting case that surfaced in Britain some years ago.

  20. #20 JeffW
    January 26, 2012

    I followed your link back to the Pepsi posts. Love your abbs and love your blog.

  21. #21 Dean
    January 26, 2012

    Wbat color is mountain dew? Green

    What color is Soylent Green?

    Doesnt that prove their case?

    See bow is easy their science is?

  22. #22 Medicien man
    January 26, 2012

    Sounds like a good recipe for opening a restaruant to serve wall street protestors marxists.
    The special today is an aluminum based vaccines with a glass of flouride water and a can of fetus pepsi, a side order of chinese noodles containing the heart attack causing aspartame and for desert we have a flouride based jello with a hint of fetal fluid seasoning. Musci will be classicla set to the tone of 440hz to keep you more docile. Huh. the same purpose that sodium flouride is used for. And discovered by the same people – nazis. in 1936 the tone of musicla instruments was changed from 432hZ to 440hz. Interestingly this new tone has EXACTLY the same mind controlling effect on the human brain as does sodium flouride and both were used by Nazi SS on their prisoners.

    I guess that’s how liberals were invented. The nazis invented liberalism to defeat America. Sadly it is working.

  23. #23 Mac
    January 26, 2012

    Where can I buy some gen-yoo-wine Oklahoma Dead Baby Sodee-Pop before it gets taken off the supermarket shelves?

  24. #24 wildlifer
    January 26, 2012

    Looks like the moronity is spreading: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/26/gop-lawmaker-virtually-impossible-to-get-aids-through-heterosexual-sex/

    Tennessee state Sen. Stacey Campfield (R) falsely claimed on Thursday that it was nearly impossible for someone to contract AIDS through heterosexual contact.

    “Most people realize that AIDS came from the homosexual community,” he told Michelangelo Signorile, who hosts a radio program on SiriusXM OutQ. “It was one guy screwing a monkey, if I recall correctly, and then having sex with men. It was an airline pilot, if I recall.”

    “My understanding is that it is virtually — not completely, but virtually — impossible to contract AIDS through heterosexual sex.”

  25. #25 Vincent Torley
    January 26, 2012

    Dear Abbie,

    You seem to regard anyone who is pro-life as a “moron.” For an alternative point of view, I suggest you have a look at my online pro-life book, “Embryo and Einstein: Why They’re Equal” at http://www.angelfire.com/linux/vjtorley/prolife.html . (Yes, I really do believe they’re equal.)

    You’ll find that many highly respected scientists (including biologists) believe that human personhood begins at conception. You’ll also find that pro-lifers have intelligent answers for the frequently raised objections to the view that embryos are people who matter just as much as you or I do. Believe it or not, we do think. I don’t believe in earbashing other people with my views, so I’ve simply made my pro-life statement on the Internet, and I leave it at that.

    If you look at Senator Shortey’s comments, he makes it quite clear that he does not believe any food on the market actually contains cells from aborted fetuses. He included that language in his bill because logically, if you wanted to ban food that used aborted fetuses in the research and development of any of the ingredients, then obviously you’d want to ban food (made at any future date) that might contain aborted fetuses in the ingredients themselves. That might sound far-fetched, but there are already cosmetics made using skin cell proteins from an aborted fetus. (“Washington Times”, November 3, 2009. See here: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/03/aborted-fetus-cells-used-in-anti-aging-products/?page=all )

    You have seriously mis-represented Senator Shortey’s views, and you owe him an apology, whatever you think of his politics.

    This is the 21st century. It’s high time we halted the practice in which cells from aborted human fetuses are used in the research and development of artificial flavor enhancers.

    Yours sincerely,

    Vincent Torley
    (B.Sc., B.A., B.Ec., M.A., Ph.D., Dip.Ed.)

  26. #26 Justicar
    January 26, 2012

    “Most people realize that AIDS came from the homosexual community,” he told Michelangelo Signorile, who hosts a radio program on SiriusXM OutQ. “It was one guy screwing a monkey, if I recall correctly, and then having sex with men. It was an airline pilot, if I recall.”

    Can you prove an airline pilot didn’t screw a monkey and a man? Checkmate, atheist!

  27. #27 jaranath
    January 27, 2012

    I think you may be selling Ralphie short. I think he basically understands what is and isn’t being done with these cells. He’s keeping it deliberately vague and (despite his claims to the contrary) implying that aborted fetuses are being processed into food and food additives because the truth is much less inflammatory to his voters. He’s taking an absolutist position: Any research that relies on anything derived from an aborted fetus, no matter how indirect or distant, is utterly contaminated and must not be allowed.

    If Ralphie started clearly explaining the actual use of the cells and the real reasons for his objection, he’d lose a lot of support from those who’d have a hard time buying that anything actually objectionable–even to a hardcore pro-lifer–could ever come from this.

  28. #28 dean
    January 27, 2012

    Vincent, minor point, which i’m sure you’re omitting on purpose: the cream did not contain cells from the fetus, but cells cultured from it. You are not excused for being intentionally misleading.

    As to your other point: the author of the bill has been given far more respect than he deserves. Using hyperbole and falsehoods to push an agenda of “I know far more than scientists or doctors about life and what is good for so you should not get to make reproductive decisions” not only needs to be mocked but stopped.

  29. #29 Wolfhound
    January 27, 2012

    Sorry, Vincent, but the fact that you “really do believe” that Einstein and embryos are equal makes you a moron. And the fact that you have a penis and as a consequence cannot ever get pregnant means you should STFU.

  30. #30 0verlord
    January 27, 2012

    LOL @ Vincent’s wanton credentialism and Angelfire homepage. The signs of a true expert!

  31. #31 Bill Door
    January 27, 2012

    He included that language in his bill because logically, if you wanted to ban food that used aborted fetuses in the research and development of any of the ingredients, then obviously you’d want to ban food (made at any future date) that might contain aborted fetuses in the ingredients themselves.

    Obviously, if you wanted to keep illegal aliens out of the United States, you’d make sure that your immigration bill included language excluding space aliens (arriving at a future date) that might try to enter the US. Obviously.

    Bill Door,
    (B.A. , M.S., Totin’ Chip)

  32. #32 Someone
    January 27, 2012

    Vacuous Vincent blethered:

    You seem to regard anyone who is pro-life as a “moron.”

    Your screed did absolutely nothing to disprove that notion. Y’all are “pro-life” right up to the point of birth. Then y’all couldn’t give a shit for the kids, mothers or anyone else.

    Embryo and Einstein Vincent and Vomit: Why They’re Equal”

    FTFY

    What embryo hasn’t made an important scientific discovery like relativity?

    You’ll find that many highly respected scientists (including biologists) believe that human personhood begins at conception.

    Citation required.

    You’ll also find that pro-lifers have intelligent answers superstitious asceintific bullshit for the frequently raised objections to the view that embryos are people who matter just as much as you or I do.

    FTFY

    Believe it or not, we do think.

    You’re right. I don’t believe it.

    I don’t believe in earbashing other people with my views, except when I’m trolling their blogs so I’ve simply made my pro-life statement on the Internet dumped my batshit insanity here at ERV, and I leave it at that.

    FTFY

    if you wanted to ban food that used aborted fetuses in the research and development of any of the ingredients, then obviously you’d want to ban food (made at any future date) that might contain aborted fetuses in the ingredients themselves.

    Why? They’re tasty (and high in protein)!

    but there are already cosmetics made using skin cell proteins from an aborted fetus. (“Washington Times”, November 3, 2009.

    Ah yes, the Moonie Times. Now that’s a credible source, I tell ya!

    You have seriously mis-represented Senator Shortey’s views, and you owe him an apology, whatever you think of his politics.

    I express my sincere regret that Senator Shortass is such a dipshit, and that his district is apparently populated mostly by morons like Vinny.

    This is the 21st century. It’s high time we halted the practice in which cells from aborted human fetuses are used in the research and development of artificial flavor enhancers of Christian men dictating to women what they should and should not do with their bodies.

    FTFY

  33. #33 EvilYeti
    January 27, 2012

    ERV should definitely move to San Diego.

    (lots of good dog parks/beaches for Arnie!)

  34. #34 Vincent Torley
    January 28, 2012

    If anybody had bothered to read the e-book I linked to, they would have seen that it was written for people with no religious beliefs whatsoever. They would have also seen that I cited the work of pro-life feminists such as Susan Anthony & Elizabeth Cady Stanton, as well as atheist pro-life women such as Doris Gordon, founder of Libertarians for Life. Finally, saying that only women have the right to express a view on abortion is like saying that only soldiers have a right to express a view on war. Some people can’t be shaken out of their preconceptions, it seems. Bye.

  35. #35 Justicar
    January 28, 2012

    Dear Mr. Vincent Torley:

    let’s suppose that I accept every proposition of yours as true – right down the line. Embyros are as fully human and deserving of equality as any Einstein would be. What would the outcome of that be?

    Would you posit that an Einstein has superior rights over my body than I have over my body? By that I mean do you suppose if he wanted my kidney, or a lung, or my lesser omentum that I’d be somehow obligated to part with said kidney or lung? If I say no, could I be held down and my organs harvested for his use?

    Why would a uterus be different than every other organ in the body? I’ll grant you any status you’d like to grant a fetus, and we’re still left with the fact that your now sentient fetus, err, baby requires the uterus of a woman to continue living. If the woman decides not to donate her organ for said baby’s life, I’m sorry to say for your sentient baby that it has to lose that battle – even if that means it has to die. This is precisely what happens day in and day out when I don’t donate my kidney to someone. It’s mine and I’m free to give away to anyone I’d like, or not – even if the ‘or not’ necessarily entails that person’s death.

    For it to be otherwise would mean we have a class of people whose organs are public property over which they exercise no control. What do you call a sentient being whose rights are abrogated as being inferior to other people’s rights such that they can be mandated to serve the needs and wants of the superior people? Oh yes, slaves. Women aren’t slaves. Their organs are theirs to do with as they see fit, in the same way your lungs and kidneys are. That others might have to die to preserve this sovereignty over a woman’s internal organs is of no moment whatever. We routinely have fought wars and killed completely innocent people to stop the enslavement of people.

    And if it is in your estimation of some moment, when might I expect you’ll be proposing legistlation that prevents you from decided when and if your internal organs can be co-opted to serve someone else, even if you object?

  36. #36 the cynic
    January 28, 2012

    Dear Vincent Torley,

    I read over that “Fetus and Fermi” thing you linked to and now I have one question for you: how can a man with apparently so much schooling be so ignorant? Seriously!

    What is your PhD in, anyway? Certainly, it does not seem to be in any of the sciences–or anything academic for that matter.

    The vast majority of your arguments are illogical at best, or even just blocks of quotes that you stole from other authors to take out of context (that’s called quote-mining, it’s considered bad form).

    I also see that you consulted “The Intelligent Design Movement” for your section on early embryonic development. Proving that not only do you lack the adequate background to make a “biological” prolife argument, you lack the background to make a “biological” argument for anything!

    As for your other sources, they are all links to pro-life and fundamentalist Christian websites–hardly reliable sources for a “book”. Furthermore, at no point in your obsessive obsessive screed do you directly cite any primary research in support of any of your arguments.

    You may crawl back to your cave now. Please return your degrees to the Cracker Jack boxes you found them in. And, please, for the sake of humanity, never vote or procreate.

    Cynically yours,

    The Cynic

  37. #37 Yakivegas
    January 28, 2012

    Mr. Torley is a regular contributor over at Uncommon Descent. He makes about as much sense over there.

  38. #38 Justicar
    January 28, 2012

    Well, if he gets another graduate degree or two, he can be the next Jerry Bergman.

  39. #39 got ilk?
    January 28, 2012

    So Harvey Whittemore owned a 7-Up/Dr. Pepper bottling company under a partnership with a couple morons who just now noticed millions of missing dollars. Maybe Harvey could tell us about the laboratory additives in soft drinks? Maybe they include XMRV? How DO mouse recombinants spiked into human blood samples taste? That’s something he should have some experience with. Oh wait. Harvey is busy defending a lawsuit alleging he embezzled millions from his business partners at the same he sues Judy Makeupshitz for stolen property. (“Takes one to know one” we used to say in 3rd grade.) He probably doesn’t have much time to comment here, so Abbie you’ll have to perform your own taste test.

    http://www.mynews4.com/media/lib/167/2/8/9/28966a9a-e885-4918-b529-4d519e99a842/File_stamped_Complaint.01_27_12.pdf

  40. #40 ERV
    January 28, 2012

    THAT IS SO AWESOME!!!

    75% of Mikovits salary was (allegedly) stolen money! So what was that number reported in the WPIs taxes for her salary? What is that number reported to the government for the grant that supposedly paid her salary? What number did Judy report to the IRS?

    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

  41. #41 mo (one of Abbies's elk)
    January 29, 2012

    Good for the lulz, but that was not her fault. What is it with the Whittemores and shady activities?

  42. #42 Woden
    January 30, 2012

    What is it with the Whittemores and shady activities?

    From that court document linked above:

    Whittemore is a licensed Nevada attorney.

    I kid! I kid!

  43. #43 anonymous
    March 1, 2012

    How are people supposed to have a reasonable debate about pro-life vs pro-choice when morons like these don’t bother to understand the first thing about their position?

  44. #44 Anonymous
    April 7, 2012

    I’m hemorrhaging. I’m completely serious right now. I need to call emergency services.

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