XMRV and chronic fatigue syndrome: Why?

When a disaster happens in science, like the XMRV fiasco, the most important lesson everyone can take away from the incident is ‘Why?’

If you understand the ‘Why?’ behind what happened, you can avoid the problem in the future.

So specifically in the case of the XMRV fiasco, the question was, “Why did samples in this study appear positive, while no one else could replicate the findings?”

The answer was contamination, contamination, contamination.

MLV viruses are in our cell lines (we already knew that) and mouse gnomic DNA, chock full of mouse ERVs, were in all of our reagents.

Well, neato. This means that if you are doing experiments in the future, you need to be on the lookout for these forms of contamination. Hurray.

… No, not really. I am not satisfied at all with the answers put forth to ‘Why?’

See, Bob Silverman already answered a ‘Why?’ long before the official retraction. He found XMRV plasmid (amp resistance genes, unquestionably, incontrovertibly from plasmid) in patient samples. Okay, fine. I guess that totally could have happened on accident (**WINK!!**). Whatever.

And I (and others) figured out that ‘XMRV’ protein expression was artfully/creatively/falsely demonstrated by treating patient samples (and only patient samples) with epigenetic modifiers, capable of inducing expression of any/all endogenous retroviruses in the patients genome.

But we were still left with a cartload of ‘Why?’s in this paper.

I was hoping Frank Ruscetti retesting some of the Science samples with the help of John Coffin would answer the remaining issues with the Science paper, so we could all understand the ‘Why?’ behind the rest of the mistakes so we dont make them ourselves.

Multiple Sources of Contamination in Samples from Patients Reported to Have XMRV Infection

It did not.

Technically, it made things worse.

See, we *KNOW* from Bob Silvermans independent retraction that there was XMRV, VP62 plasmids spiked into the patient samples he had. We *KNOW* that.

And yet…

That is not what Kearney et al found in their samples. They found mouse DNA/mouse ERVs.

The three methods yielded concordant results for all 9 samples and provided unequivocal evidence that the plasma samples provided to us from 4 of the CFS patients originally reported [12] to be XMRV infected were contaminated with mouse DNA.

Now.

But in 2009, those sequences were unquestionably iterations of VP62. If Lombardi et al had ‘found’ mouse DNA contamination before, then their data should have mirrored Lo et al. It didnt.

What??

This paper does explain *one* ‘Why?’– XMRV plasmid or mouse DNA in serum samples will not induce expression of infectious retroviruses. This group tried to figure out what went on with Mikovits/WPIs super magical co-culture experiments. Turns out all the cell lines they used are infected with XMRV.

But then how were their ‘mocks’ negative?

And we are still left with how 100% of their patient cells stained positive for flow, when an elaborate voodoo ritual needed to be performed in order to get the samples to test positive for XMRV via PCR. And now we have more, new, ‘Why?’s.

Ugh.

I wish they would just come out and say “We faked it all, and heres how.”

Comments

  1. #1 starskeptic
    March 13, 2012

    Abbie – I’m glad you’re on our side…

  2. #2 HGRV
    March 13, 2012

    Waiting to see what expert Dr lipkin says. He’s working close with Ruscetti and mikovits.
    I think Ruscetti and mikovits say it’s a family of gammaretroviruses.

    Time will tell. Lipkin will hopefully point us in the right direction when his study is out this year.

  3. #3 Bill Door
    March 13, 2012

    I wish they would just come out and say “We faked it all, and heres how.”

    Sadly this is not an episode of Scooby Doo.
    “Yes, I doped in the mouse DNA and dressed up as a pirate ghost to keep people away from the amusement park… and I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn’t been for you meddling kids and your ilk!”

  4. #4 Tony Mach
    March 13, 2012

    “Why?” as in “Why did they do what they did?” is an interesting question, no discussion there. Fame, money, ego or any combination thereof would probably be a close approximation of reality. And surely it is not exactly clear to me why Dr. M or Dr. R did what they did – so plenty to find out there.

    But just like anything, like any infection, any pathogen, any illness, any genetic/phenotypic trait, any division of science, any act of state, anything that happened in this great universe this has an history. Judy Mikovits has an history. Frank Ruscetti has an history. Some other people in retrovirology have an history. You know that. You know the stories. Things are not happening purely randomly (although there is surely an random component to it), things have an history. Look into the history.

    So the fundamental question I propose is this: Was this the first time samples were spiked with isolates received from fellow colleagues?

    If you answer no to this question, then I am afraid that the universe is random and you will not find a satisfactory answer to the “Why?” question.

    On the other hand, if you answer yes, if you found the right piece of history, then that piece of history would “make sense” out of what happened here.

  5. #5 Tony Mach
    March 13, 2012

    I wish they would just come out and say “We faked it all, and heres how.”

    As the famous philosopher Jayne Cobb once said: Well, if wishes were horses, we’d all be eating steak!

    If you look into history, you’l notice that that is never going to happen (not the steak thing, I mean the confession thing).

    There are basically two possibilities of what is going to happen here:
    1. Someone drags them into an inquiry and the result of the inquiry will make sure that it is clear to everybody in the virology community that this is not acceptable scientific conduct.
    Or
    2. This thing will happen again, as it happened before.

    Please notice that in neither version there will be an honest answer to the “Why?” question.

  6. #6 Gofro
    March 13, 2012

    Abbie the simpler explanation is that gamma retroviruses were present. To infect blinded samples with different concentrations of a plasmid and only 4% of controls would require magic far more powerful than vodoo. But Dr Coffin demonstrated how easy it is to contaminate samples in said paper. Dr Ruscetti at no time tested the samples in this study, of which only 5 sample were from people who had taken part in Lombardi.

    When does blinded throughout not mean blinded throughout? When the term is used in a study authored by John Coffin. Why did he take that approach?

    Why does Dr Coffin tell the world that the 22Rv1 cell line contains 9 different proviruses with gag sequences showing 4% sequence variation?

    Different strains of HTLV1 show far less diversity than the sequences isolated by Silverman.

  7. #7 Interested Virologist
    March 14, 2012

    @ Gofro (#6),

    When Ruscetti/WPI were given blinded samples to test, they found similar rates between patient/control samples.
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/334/6057/814.full?sid=d72f8149-62aa-4fec-91b8-fbd501661487

    It was only when they were testing their own ‘blinded’ samples that they preferentially found patients to be positive.

  8. #8 Marc Fluks
    March 14, 2012

    Abbie Smith wrote,
    >I wish they would just come out and say “We faked it all, and heres how.”

    The XMRV-fraud is astrology (most things in the CFS community address astrology). It is the story about the two dogs in the sky. It is the story about Apollo and Mercury, it is the story about the 10th Labour of Herakles. In Nordic mythology and Freemasonry the story is called ‘Ragnarok’, in Greek mythology it is called ‘Titanomachy’ and in the Bible it is called ‘Revelations’ or ‘Apocalypse’. In the story, the two celestial dogs (Canis Major and Canis Minor) merge in the constellation Monoceros during a Midsummer Solar Eclipse.

    In ’1984′, Orwell called this Room 101 (explaining the number of patients in the Lombardi et al. study) since 101 = CI in Roman numerals (where C is the Solar Eclipse and I is ‘the One’). Mikovits called XMRV-disease ‘XAND’ since this is a homophone for ‘croissant’ – the ‘croissant’ in the sky being a Solar Eclipse. This is also the reason why Mikovits used to be a Vitamin-C quack.

    The XMRV-fraud is Masonic trickery. It is an illusion – there never has been a link to whatever virus.

    It is brainwashing.

    Marc Fluks

  9. #9 Gofro2
    March 14, 2012

    @Interested Virologist.

    In the blood study the controls were not pre-screened by all labs using all methods and therefore any potential negatives were not ruled to be negative for selection. The serology assay that detected the positives in the none-controls and patients is specific for the presence of SFFV env. This is a test for an MuLV class gammaretrovirus. It has never been shown to cross react and will not identify any mouse ERV or gamma HERV. This is concordant with the use of people inappropriately pre-screened and entered into the study as controls when they should not have been. Only the 3 lab workers were screened using all methods, yet their status is likely to change due to exposure to infected patient samples. The other PCR failed in the study because there was no flash freezing process, no preservative in the samples and Lombardi who conducted testing for the WPI used an assay not employed in Lombardi et al. Ruscetti’s lab did not test using PCR and the other labs did not have clinically validated assays.

    Which paper are you referring to here?

    “It was only when they were testing their own ‘blinded’ samples that they preferentially found patients to be positive.”

    How can you preferential find patients positive when samples are blinded unless the patients are infected?

  10. #10 Gofro
    March 14, 2012

    @Marc Fluks

    Are you accusing Bob Silverman of fraud? What about Fisher, Singh, Switzer, Cabrera?

    How do you explain the results from blinded samples?

  11. #11 OWE
    March 14, 2012

    @Gofro,

    Do you have a financial interest to keep the XMRV fairy tale alive? A scientific interest it cannot be.

    OWE

  12. #12 PAN
    March 14, 2012

    ERV, many of the culture samples in Kearney could not have come from Ruscetti and it is unclear if any were from him. As mentioned above the plasma samples were not from Lombardi either. You should have read this first.

    http://www.plosone.org/annotation/listThread.action?inReplyTo=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fannotation%2F645c4122-165f-4956-9134-e605adf47359&root=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fannotation%2F645c4122-165f-4956-9134-e605adf47359

    The culture samples from unnamed contributors and the presence of 22rv1 and mouse cells in the lab at the HIV Drug Resistance Program explain the contamination of the culture samples tested in this paper. This quote is further evidence the contamination of those mysterious cells occurred when testing.

    “We handled all cell culture supernatants in an area designated for cell culture and not in clean areas designated for processing of patient samples.”

    What is not explained is the failure to further sequence the 40 nucleotides that that are identical to a full XMRV isolate, which was found in the four patients who had also tested positive in Lombardi.

  13. #13 Jack
    March 14, 2012

    Yeah go on Abbie, read the above link and see what Gerwyn in his latest reincarnation has to say about it all.

  14. #14 Poodle Stomper
    March 14, 2012

    Gerwyn should never be fed. He’s too goddam stupid to understand science anyway. It’s a waste of everyone’s time (other than giving us all a giggle).

  15. #15 TCC
    March 14, 2012

    Abbie,
    Regarding the question of why the positive samples were contaminated early with VP 62 plasmid, and then with mouse DNA, I have a hypothesis. Judy first spiked the samples with VP62 to generate the positive samples. Later, it became clear that XMRV is a lab-derived virus and therefore finding it in patient blood basically can only arise from contamination. So she then moves the goal posts and spreads the idea that there are multiple gammaretroviruses in patients; to generate samples with multiple gammaretroviruses, she spikes them with mouse cells or DNA…then her samples look like the Lo/Alter samples. The only problem with is is that it is easy to detect mouse DNA contamination…but maybe she didn’tt realize it.

  16. #16 Howler
    March 14, 2012

    @TCC

    The samples in Keanery are not the Lombardi samples. Did you not read the paper? These were samples taken in 2010 and sent to the DRP lab for testing, not Ruscetti’s or Mikvoits’s. None of the Mikovits and Ruscetti samples in Lombardi were ever found contaminated. The mouse cell lines that contaminated the new samples used by Coffin and others in this paper were in the lab that tested them. The Mikovits and Ruscetti viruses are not VP62 and the other strains of XMRV are not VP62. The mouse contamination assays used in Kearney are also not validated.

  17. #17 TCC
    March 15, 2012

    @10Gofro
    Judy and Frank committed fraud….I have no idea why…fame, fortune, adoration by the patient community…whatever.
    The other scientists just made mistakes…it happens all the time.

  18. #18 HGRV
    March 15, 2012

    Frank Ruscetti committed fraud!!!? ….I don’t see it some how.

    Anyway a new article today says lipkin was threatened with legal action if he carried on with XMRV / MLV research !!

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/03/ian-lipkin-a-scientist-on-the-road-to-damascus.html

  19. #19 Tony Mach
    March 15, 2012

    Looky look what the people at the WPI are interested in:
    http://www.facebook. com/permalink.php?story_fbid=235896753172577&id=154801179671

    The link goes here:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2085814/Scientists-falsify-data-research-published-whistleblowers-bullied-keeping-quiet-claim-colleagues.html

  20. #20 HGRV
    March 15, 2012

    The Human Gamma Retrovirus Saga reminds me of a Tom and Jerry episode.

    Im team Mouse all the way! Good luck to Mikovits, Ruscetti, Lo, Alter.

    See link…..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2115292/The-real-life-Tom-Jerry-Captured-mouse-stands-ground-hits-cat-10-minute-battle-escaping.html

  21. #21 Tony Mach
    March 15, 2012

    @TCC, 16
    So she then moves the goal posts and spreads the idea that there are multiple gammaretroviruses in patients; to generate samples with multiple gammaretroviruses, she spikes them with mouse cells or DNA…then her samples look like the Lo/Alter samples.

    Only one problem: It was Ruscetti/Keanery/NCI who reported MLVs and is trying to move the goal post towards contamination – Mikovits/WPI wasn’t part. I am not aware that any non-XMRV/VP62 sequences came from Mikovits/WPI. And Mikovits always claimed that is was not mousey contamination – her story only moved to some mystical poly/xenotropic HGRVs, while her phylogenetic trees only showed VP62. If anything, Mikovits is constantly trying to move the goal posts into “human pathogen” direction, without any (new) evidence to support that it is not VP62 plasmid contamination.

    To me, this looks like Ruscetti is looking for a way out (“It was mouzey contamination and plazmid contamination and yogurt contamination and I am totally stupied, I swearz!”).

    Mouseovits on the other hand looks like she is going down the Wakefield road and will continue to talk about mystical Human Gamma-Retroviruses for ever.

  22. #22 Tony Mach
    March 15, 2012

    In case it is not only Gerwyn who is contaminating the comments here: To all operators of sock-puppets (“HGRV”, “Gofro”, “Howler”, “PAN”):
    I will start listening to you, if choose one pen-name and stick to it.

    As a curtsey to people interested in the science (and lack thereof) in XMRV research:
    Silverman found contamination in samples from Mikovits, what you would call “samples in Lombardi”. Therefore, you lie.

  23. #23 Jack
    March 15, 2012

    @HGRV

    Word of advice: Don’t believe a thing that is written in AofA especially when it comes to secret sources ;)

    Lipkin reported that several people were concerned about his XMRV/MLV study in the wake of the developments. He responded with his statement that the vast majority of the cash had already been spent (80% or something). He’d recruited Mousevits by then of course and afforded her a mouse-hole in the corner.

    Kent McBollocks wouldn’t know the truth if his bit his arse. His only interest here is because the ‘A’ word in relation to ‘XMRV’. You should see what he said about Wakefield. But of course you already know – don’t you? ;)

    Read the article from Cohan in Science – Abbie linked to again above – it’s worth a recap. Everything Mousevits (and funnily enough the now-out-of-favour Lombardi) is quoted as saying, is being repeated as a meme by those – like yourself – who will not accept what has happened. Until Mousevits publishes a paper that supports her theories or a full sequence either of which are upheld by others – you are spinning a web of fantasy born out of despair.

  24. #24 TCC
    March 15, 2012

    @Tony#21
    the samples tested by Kearney came from patients that were previously reported to be XMRV positive, meaning they must be patients in the Lombardi study.
    Anyway, my hypothesis was that someone spiked the samples with mouse DNA so that PCR tests will reveal a diversity of MLV-related sequences, making it appear as though there is a family of viruses infecting humans. Of course, all the sequences would be endogenous MLV proviruses.

    The question that arises from the Kearney paper is why are the CFS patient samples contaminated with mouse DNA but not the negative controls? Random contamination seems very unlikely to me.

  25. #25 Marc Fluks
    March 16, 2012

    The problem is that most people are brainwashed. They just cannot see what is going on here. They do not know the story of the two dogs in the sky and what happens when the two dogs merge during a Solar Eclipse. I will reveal some codes… they are supposed to be secret… they are already in your head but you just don’t know.

    Sometimes a *butterfly* is *two dogs*. Surf to,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthos
    You will see two links.
    - Orthos is a (nocturnal) butterfly.
    This is the logo of the Whittemore Peterson Institute.
    - Orthos is the twoheaded dog in the sky.
    This is the story about the two dogs. Most people do not know what Orthos is. Other names are Fenrir, Set, Typhon. From Set, the name most people know has been derived: Satan. So the logo of the WPI in fact is Satan. This is because these people (including Mikovits) are Freemasons end Freemasons are Satanists.

    The two dogs are called Apollo and Mercury. We are not allowed to see Apollo and we must see Mercury (the Rex Mundi, the Devil). Satan returns when Apollo (the body) hosts Mercury (the mind). In the XMRV-fraud, the virus is Mercury (since a virus is a messenger). So the real problem to solve is finding Apollo. Well, Apollo is already in your head – you just ain’t aware of it. Apollo is the Deity of *Mice*. Got it ?

    There also is a code in XMRV itself. In order to cross (X) the characters MRV in the Latin Mercury (Mercurivs), you will see that Apollo (the Deity of Medicine) *is* a *cure* (in Latin, the ‘u’ and ‘v’ are identical). Also, CFS is called ME and ‘Me’ is just another code for Apollo. In fact, *Myalgic Encephalomyelitis* (CFS) is an anagram (Freemasons speak in anagrams). You might try to solve it…

    Very important here is to find a link between Whittemore and the 555 code (of Mercury). 555 is the number of Whittemore’s office and to Freemasons it refers to the triple Death of Mercury (in Orthos). You will see this number *everywhere* but you are not aware of it: if you watch a TV programme, never mind the story but watch what is on the screen itself. Watch the telephone numbers: these are 555-numbers. You’ve been tricked. You’ve been brainwashed.

    Most of us cannot see these things because they think the World (Mercury) is real (Apollo). But it isn’t: the World is a story. Most of us are not aware of reality since they are unaware of Apollo.

    It is a story about *meanings*. Any concept has *two* meanings instead of *one*. People always refer to the wrong meaning – to a lie, to Mercury. The trick is to find the *second* meaning – the truth, Apollo. Apollo is warning us all the time for the tricks of Mercury, but we cannot see him, we cannot hear him. Just like Mercury himself he is everywhere but we just don’t see. We think we see *something else*.

    Marc Fluks

  26. #26 dustbubble
    March 16, 2012

    @25: You, Sir, are a comedy genius! h/t
    Let’s see .. are you better than Tinky-Winky, or Dipsy, or Laa-Laa … or Poe?

  27. #27 Tony Mach
    March 16, 2012

    @TCC,24

    The point I wanted to make is that the interests, methods and claims of Ruscetti and Mikovits are not identical. Mikovits changed her tune from “It’s XMRV!!!” to “It’s an HGRV!!!”. Ruscetti changed his tune from “Could it be some gamma retrovirus?” to “My samples might have been contaminated with all kinds of stuff.” I think Ruscetti tries to muddy the water. Mikovits ALWAYS claimed “DEFiNiTLY NO MOUSE CONTAMINATION.”

    Ruscetti/NCI did the flow cytometry, with an 100% peak shift as noted by ERV (and others). You don’t need any virus isolate for that.

    In fact, I doubt that you could accomplish an 100% peak shift with mouse MLV contamination, as it is very unlikely (read: impossible) that mouse MLVs would infect more than a few PBMCs – and neither XMRV (nor any of the polytropic viruses) can do that. It is much more in line with the usage of 5-AZA.

    The position of Mikovits was always: Its an human retrovirus!!!!ONE!!ELVEN!!!11!! The PCR results (both from WPI and from Silverman) can be entirely explained with an intentional XMRV VP62 plasmid contamination at WPI. In fact, I don’t know of any facts that would indicate any virus origin other that VP62 plasmid. No sequences other than VP62 were ever published. All mouse MLV contamination tests by WPI came back negative.

    Lombardi et al. 2009 reported the usage of “VP62 XMRV strain grown in human Raji, LNCaP and Sup-T1 cells” (most likely the plasmid the WPI received from Silverman) so I take it that is all they had, and that it was all they needed.

    Other than that, “SFFV-infected HCD-57 cells” were used, which might have been used to contaminate samples in other contexts, but I find it highly unlikely.

    I find it unlikely that any other viruses other than XMRV VP62 were involved in contaminating the samples for PCR or EM. Nor do I think you need actual virus for the flow cytometry or western blots. There is no evidence that MLVs were present (except this recent post-hoc study) and one would not need any other virus to get the results at WPI or at NCI. Talk to Occam, he’ll agree that there wasn’t any MLV contamination.

  28. #28 Tony Mach
    March 16, 2012

    And I wanted to mention one more thing: I think Ruscetti is trying to distance himself from Mikovits. Though, he seems to be unable to explain what happened in his lab, and he is not helping to explain what happened at the WPI lab.

  29. #29 Marc Fluks
    March 17, 2012

    @26 Wrote: You, Sir, are a comedy genius!

    No, I am telling the truth. However, the situation is so serious that most people cannot even observe the truth. From the day they were born to they day they will die, they will live in a story. In a dream. If they look at something, they will always see something else and this something else is a story. It is not real.

    A nice way to see what is going on here is watching the ‘Twin Peaks’ or ‘The Prisoner’ dvds. (And – of course – read ’1984′ by Orwell). Don’t watch the story, try to see what is really going on on the screen.

    An example, this is a scene taken from Twin Peaks,
    http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/6856/sn/1847535855/name/IMG_2971.jpg
    If you look very carefully, you will see *two dogs* (in a dog basket) on the backboard. Most people however, will see a map of Twin Peaks because they are dreaming the usual Masonic dream.

    The same thing is present in the XMRV-story: Virus = Mercury, Culture = Apollo, so Virus-culture is the twoheaded dog Orthos again. Mikovits and Lombardi never adressed a virus, they were refering to something else. This is why Mikovits killed cancer-patients with vitamin-C (this is the story about the second Labour of Herakles – about killing a crab with the ‘Sword of Athena’: the Solar Eclipse) and why Lombardi sold non-existing tests as RedlabsUSA and VIPDx, and UneVX.

    Another example. When Obama asks ‘Do you want change ?’ he refers to the two dogs. He doesn’t say ‘change’ at all, he is talking about the homophone ‘chiens’ (French: dogs). And of course, the Obama-fans want more dogs… Obama is another Freemason.

    Things just are very different.

    Marc Fluks

  30. #30 dustbubble
    March 17, 2012

    @ Marc : you are erranta (post #18),
    and I claim my five pounds.

  31. #31 David
    March 17, 2012

    @29

    Thank you for linking to your site – that is funny. No – it really is.

    Ha.

    Uh?

    Anyhoo – back on planet earth….

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0032853

  32. #32 salt
    March 17, 2012

    @TCC

    The lab at the DRP had a mouse cell line present when testing. It is the logical choice for the source of any MLV contamination. However, the study was not blinded throughout as the four patients samples had been found to be positive for MLV-related viruses, not MLVs, before mouse contamination was tested for. The standard is to test for contamination before testing for a pathogen.

    The paper was positive.

    @Tony

    Mikovits did not change her mind, the data increased. Mikovits and Ruscetti found polytropic sequences. Silverman said the full sequence was a polytropic/xenotropic hybrid. XMRV. Mikovits and Ruscetti continued to study and found they could only detect polytropic variants in all regions of the virus.

    The VP62 plasmid as a contaminant may well be responsible for 22rv1, but it was never in the WPI or NCI when they conducted research for Lombardi et al. It was not in their samples, only the few Silverman tested, and it cannot account for genetic diversity of the full length XMRVs or polytropic sequences.

  33. #33 Tess
    March 17, 2012

    Yeah well ..fear of the answers to all the “whys” being revealed may very well be the motivation behind Mitkovits’ (alleged) absconding of notebooks, computer data, etc from WPI. Shady behavior for sure!

  34. #34 TCC
    March 18, 2012

    @salt
    The samples were first given to Ruscetti and processed in his lab before they were given to Kearney and coworkers. Only the CFS patient samples were contaminated with mouse DNA. Since the samples were blinded for the Kearny group, they were most likely “contaminated” while in Ruscetti’s possession. The paper says blood was drawn from patients by an independent service, not WPI, and sent to the Ruscetti lab.

  35. #35 Marc Fluks
    March 18, 2012

    @26 Wrote: Anyhoo – back on planet earth….

    …I don’t think so…

    This is the (recently removed) Lombardi VipDx website, owned by the Whittemore family,
    http://web.archive.org/web/20110720233430/http://www.vipdx.com/
    where the VIP is Orthos (V=Victory of the 2 dogs, I=Mercury and P=Phoibos Apollo) and Dx (diagnostics) is about being aware of the 2 dogs. This is what the XMRV-test of VipDx really does: testing if a person is aware of 2 dogs. Just like all other CFS tests do (example: the RNaseL test will test if a person has a *nose* between the left and the right eye where the nose is the constellation Monoceros, separating the 2 dogs in the sky).

    To those of us that are brainwashed, the Lombardi VipDx website shows a microscope, DNA, and a naked person. Those of us that are scientists will not understand the science and those of us that are not brainwashed will see a Solar Eclipse (the microscope), the Milky Way (DNA) and Orthos emerging from the Milky Way in the constellation Unicorn/Monoceros during a Solar Eclipse (the naked person).

    It is the same story. The corresponding picture at Wikipedia is,
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Far_away_and_long_ago_by_Willy_Pogany.png

    Previously, VipDx was called Redlabs – where the Red One is Set, the Egyptian Orthos, Deity of the Dessert and Satan. It is now called UneVx. You’d better try to find the code in UneVx before it is too late.

    Marc Fluks

  36. #36 David
    March 18, 2012

    @35

    Classic delusional thought.
    A textbook case.

  37. #37 HGRV
    March 19, 2012

    A must watch new video.

    XMRV in 2012. This explains everything you need to no about XMRV.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTdvs8QbwKs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  38. #38 Woden
    March 19, 2012

    This explains everything you need to no about XMRV.

    Everything we need to “no,” huh? That sounds about right.

    The problem I can see with all this XMRV garbage is that the XMRV-proponents are pushing their explanation *before* they have any evidence (and, in some cases, *in spite of* the evidence). If XMRV or some other viral infection is the cause, then should be proving it before they start telling people that it *is* the cause, or selling test kits, or any of this other garbage. There are a number of people involved in this who have been extremely unprofessional in this regard.

    If they want to push their explanation, then it is incumbent upon them to produce some evidence first. Going public without any solid evidence and getting a misled cult-like following is no substitution for that.

  39. #39 Marc Fluks
    March 20, 2012

    @36 wrote.
    >Classic delusional thought. A textbook case.

    [It is not clear if we agree or if your remark was about me]

    Anyway, I didn’t create the Lombardi web-page, I just gave the correct interpretation – which is an interpretation we are not supposed to be aware of. People that are brainwashed will see an illusion: they see a microscope, DNA and a naked person. The problem is that people that are brainwashed are not aware of their situation. They consider the things they see, hear, and touch to be real. They just ain’t aware of Masonic trickery. They are easy to manipulate.

    We can test if we are brainwashed or not by answering a very simple question: ‘How many colours are present in a rainbow ?’

    Those of us that are brainwashed will refer to the World and their answer will be 6. Those of us that are not brainwashed will refer to reality and their answer will be 7.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=rainbow+symbol&tbm=isch
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow
    This is because the World does not exist, the World is just a story. Reality does exist – unfortunately, most people are not aware of reality. They live in a neverending dream created by Freemasons and they consider the 6-colour rainbow to be real.

    The explanation: The rainbow is the symbol of the New Age and the New Age was invented by Freemasons. It is the ‘Bifrost’ spanning the Milky Way and connecting the two dogs in the sky. It is depicted on the back side of all Euro banknotes as a bridge over a river (the Milky Way). Almost all rainbows we observe in the World are (non-existing) 6-colour rainbows – explaining why most people believe there are 6 colours in a rainbow instead of 7. Freemasons removed the colour blue because it is the colour of Jupiter, the colour of the God of Rome.

    As a consequence, we observe a phenomenon that does not exist.

    Marc Fluks

  40. #40 David
    March 20, 2012

    @39

    “I was blind…but now I can see..eeeeyaarghhhh….”

    Cleese et al (1979)

  41. #41 xmrv denier. :>)
    March 20, 2012

    @39
    @ Mark Fluks

    Your comments are great example(s) of cognitive dissonance with a bit, okay a lot, of paranoia thrown in.

    Your statements will obviously “ring true” for those who hang on to the HGRV theory despite the evidence.

    It’s getting old and you are hindering the progress of me/cfs research!

    Sigh

  42. #42 Marc Fluks
    March 21, 2012

    @41 wrote,
    >It’s getting old and you are hindering the progress of me/cfs research!

    Unfortunately, there is no progress in CFS research.

    Last week I attended a ‘lecture’ about a new ‘breakthrough’ (a ‘breakthrough’ is about destroying the Milky Way separating the two dogs). The new story will be that CFS is caused by prions on the surface of cells acting as antennas to have cells talking to each other (or something like this – it was a very confusing story about the work of the popular CFS-quack/Freemason De Meirleir by Chris Roelant). Of course, there were two dogs in the presentation. Some people laughed when the first dog was shown on the screen. Most people of course didn’t noticed the dogs.

    Also, there has been a press release (in Dutch) about CFS and XMRV/MLV by the Dutch quack magazine Ortho (Orthos again, the two dogs). Non-Dutch speaking people were told to believe that Ortho is an important scientific magazine – however, in The Netherlands it is the number 1 target of the Dutch quackbuster organziation. Ortho promotes ‘orthomolecular psychiatry’ – ‘orthomolecular’ being the alchemy of Orthos (these people consider all diseases ‘schizophrenia’ since the two dogs must come together). It has been an invention of Linus Pauling – the biggest quack ever lived and a two-time Nobel Price laureat. The press release was the source to promote the Harvey Alter XMRV/MLV-research from a Zagreb conference (another retracted paper since it turned out to be quackery too),
    http://www.virology.ws/2010/06/22/fda-and-nih-confirm-wpi-xmrv-findings/

    It just is a story. It is not real.
    All it takes to understand what is going on here is to see *two* dogs.

    The same story is everywhere. The Euro crisis is about it. The climate change scenario is about it (the real question to address when it comes to ‘climate change’ is: ‘Who is Herakles in Greek mythology and what is the job of his wife Hebe ?’). BTW, this is the logo of the Al Gore presidential campaign…
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/galleries/lifeofgore/photo34.htm
    Yes, it is a Solar Eclipse. Al Gore is a Freemason too. All he wanted to accomplish as the US president is to unite two dogs. Just as Obama has been doing the past years.

    Is this real or isn’t it ?
    http://www.summakor.com
    Do the test,
    http://www.summakor.com/swat.html

    Marc Fluks

  43. #43 Tony Mach
    March 25, 2012

    From Lombardi et al. 2009:
    “All of these Abs detected the human VP62 XMRV strain grown in human Raji, LNCaP and Sup-T1 cells (fig. S3) (5).”

    So even the text of study itself states that VP62 was used in Lombardi et al. 2009.

    Therefore “Salt” is another lying sock-puppet from Gerwyn/V99, who will spread falsehoods because he is a stupid blithering idiot.

  44. #44 Tony Mach
    March 25, 2012

    Oh, by the way, if the text says that VP62 was used, and Dr. Mikovits says to her fans that VP62 was not used, what does that then say about Dr. Mikovits?

  45. #45 SuperD
    April 3, 2012

    The VP62 plasmid was not used in Lombardi et al. and it does not say they did in the paper. If you cannot read the text and don’t understand why Tony Mach, then you shouldn’t comment.

  46. #46 OWE
    April 3, 2012

    @45, SuperD
    Guess where I found this?

    “Figure S3. Detection of cloned XMRV-VP62 using a rat mAb to SFFV Env and a goat antiserum to mouse NZB xenotropic MLV.A. Lysates were prepared from XMRV-VP62-infected Raji (lane1), LNCaP (lane 2) or Sup-T1 (lane 3).”…

    and

    “B. Lysates were prepared from XMRV-VP62-infected Raji (lane 1), LNCaP (lane 2) or Sup-T1 (lane 3).”…

    It is from the Online Supporting Material of the Lombardi paper. Can you explain where the “XMRV-VP62″ virus came from other than from cells that had been transfected with VP62 plasmid to produce XMRV (and contaminate the whole lab)?

    OWE

  47. #47 Curious
    April 3, 2012

    So will anything useful come out of this?

    I was under the impression that a previously unknown contamination in lab materials used to conduct tests was discovered, and that researchers were mislead by this as they expected any contamination to originate in the lab or handling of samples, not in the substances (purchased from standard lab supply sources?) used to conduct tests.

    Net, I had gathered that while nothing was discovered related to the set of diseases lumped under the “CFS” tag, a virus infecting some lab supplies was found.

    Was that not the case?

    replies are welcome which do not include astology/freemasons/dog-strology rants.

  48. #48 Marc Fluks
    April 6, 2012

    Today, the Whittemore Peterson Institute has admitted that their XMRV/MLV ‘research’ just was a story – see,
    http://www.wpinstitute.org/about/about_presmsg.html
    where,
    ‘We realize, however, that research is not a straight or easy road to travel, as we learned from the story of xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus/murine leukemia viruses (XMRV/MLVs).’

  49. #49 Marc Fluks
    April 6, 2012

    WPI healing the Moon

    In order to understand the report below, we must be aware of Egyptian mythology in Freemasonry. The story says that Thoth (Mercury) heals the Eye of Horus (Apollo) once a month. This means that the Full Moon is to be healed to obtain the New Moon (refering to both a Lunar and a Solar Eclipse) – the Man on the Moon being Thoth. It is the story about the war between Set (Satan) and Horus about being the first Pharao of Egypt (the dual Kingdom) and about Horus losing his eyesight in the process. We must also be aware that the second Man on the Moon has been Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin and that Aldrin, just like the Whittemores, Mikovits and most CFS quacks is a Freemason (some of them are Scientologists). You might notice that the first three NASA manned space missions have been the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo projects – Gemini (Alchemy/Chimera/Egypt) being the symbol of alchemy and that Mercury and Apollo together are Set (illustrating that Masonic trickery can be observed everywhere).

    Now surf to the University of Nevada alumni web site,
    http://www.unr.edu/silverandblue/archive/2011/winter/NSB_Winter_2011_WEB_16-17.pdf
    The text says,
    ‘The 29th annual University of Nevada, Reno Foundation Banquet, presented by the
    Whittemore Family Foundation, featured guest speaker Dr. Buzz Aldrin.’
    This in fact is a Masonic ritual about Set (Satan, Orthos)
    as an Apollo astronaut being the Man on the Moon (Mercury). Most people however won’t see it (because they see something else). They have been blinded, they have been tricked by Mercury and do not notice Apollo.

    There is more about being blinded (Abbie, you won’t like this since it is about your hero). The question is Who is the Blind Watchmaker ? Well, I’ve just revealed its identity – but most of us cannot see it since they themselves have been blinded, most of us will not even understand the title of this book although it is hidden in plain sight. The Blind Watchmaker has been doing his evil trick again. Not all atheists are real atheists, some of them are in fact Freemasons (and Freemasons really hate atheists), deceiving real atheists. Do you see the trick…? Is it real or isn’t it ?

    Marc Fluks

  50. #50 NJ
    April 6, 2012

    MF@49:

    {Rod Serling}
    There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears and the summit of his knowledge…
    {/Rod Serling}

  51. #51 Tony Mach
    April 10, 2012

    @ OWE, 46:

    SuperD is just another sock-puppet for V99/Gerwyn, he changes his name every time he writes something not supported by facts – no sense in discussing with him.

    If he would bother to actually read the work of his Saint Judy, he would understand a lot more – but he is too stupid to read, it seems.

  52. #52 Andrew
    May 15, 2012

    Good scientists can sometimes make serious mistakes. The end. By trying to make this into some sort of conspiracy of all involved, it is you who will now be losing integrity.

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