Madness? THIS IS SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!

Science hath no insanity like the XMRV fiasco.

*sigh*

But there is a constant, bright spot in this ridiculous storm, and I dont want it to be overlooked– The scientific leadership of Robert Silverman, and everyone associated/partnered with his laboratory*.

As a young, hopeful, yet increasingly derisive scientist like myself, Silvermans behavior throughout all of this has been shockingly appropriate.  Shockingly responsible.  He is doing nothing that a good scientist shouldnt do, but its still shocking when people do the right thing, even at personal, professional, and financial cost to themselves.

For those of you who dont know what Im talking about, let me bring you up to speed–In 2006, Silvermans lab discovered a new retrovirus associated with prostate cancer.  Specifically, a retrovirus in concert with a genetic variant was connected to prostate cancer.  It was a fantastic finding, supported the ‘multi-hit’ mode of cancer, potentially new avenues of prostate cancer treatment and prevention, really cool!

Unfortunately, it turns out that their findings were the result of contamination.  All of it.

After many labs found out that common laboratory reagents and commonly used cell lines were infected with the ‘new’ virus, XMRV, as well as mouse DNA that contains ERV versions of ‘XMRV’, Silvermans lab went back to their source material.  The ‘discovered’ XMRV in a cell line they made from a prostate tumor isolated from a patient.  The cell line was XMRV positive… while the original tumor was not.  ‘XMRV’ was generated during the process that created the cell line, so XMRV did not cause the initial prostate tumor used to make the cell line.

Well, Silvermans lab has just taken everything a step further:

In-Depth Investigation of Archival and Prospectively Collected Samples Reveals No Evidence for XMRV Infection in Prostate Cancer

They basically emptied their freezer of patient prostate cancer samples and checked each and every one to see if they were genuinely infected with XMRV, or whether there was nothing salvageable from their initial paper.  Knowing what we know today about XMRV/ERV-MLV contamination, they took precautions we didnt know to take pre-2006.

40 tissue samples.  No XMRV by microarray.  No XMRV from fluorescence in situ hybridization.  No antibody response to XMRV in the patient sera.

They also sent their tissue samples to three independent institutions: Blood Systems Research Institute, Abbott Laboratories, and Cleveland Clinic for testing too.

No XMRV.

And when they went back to the ‘positive’ RNA samples in their freezer, there WAS XMRV!… All the same XMRV.  All the sequences were the same.  From a retrovirus.  After genetic analysis, their ‘positive’ results were unquestionably contamination.

And, not only did these groups do the responsible thing by performing the necessary research, appropriately, to resolve this issue, they also had their initial 2006 paper retracted.

This was a lot of hard work, organized by the very people who would be ‘embarrassed’ if XMRV was not connected to prostate cancer.  The same people who would have to retract papers.  The same people who own XMRV-related patents.  The same people who work for pharmaceutical companies that have invested time/effort/money into developing putatively patient-grade diagnostic assays.

This research was carried out, voluntarily, by individuals who had ‘something to lose’.

In Science, people mess up.  We dont have all the necessary information before we start.  We are shooting into the dark.  When people take new information to discover something new, or take new information to correct an old error, it is Science moving forward.  The advancement of science was more important to these folks then the advancement of their personal egos/careers/pocketbooks.

In this crazy world, there are people who do the right thing.

Like I said… its shocking.

 

 

* I apologize for not naming everyone specifically in this post.  There are more people doing The Right Thing in this situation than just Silverman, but I am not familiar enough with these labs to give the appropriate individuals credit.  At the very least, the authors on this and this paper, as well as everyone from Silvermans lab who voluntarily pulled their XMRV=CFS data, I trust them.  They might have messed up, but they helped resolve the situation in an honest and forthright manner.  I trust these peeps. *fist bump*

Comments

  1. #1 Poodle Stomper
    September 19, 2012

    And I certainly don’t trust Judy…ever. She’s proven herself to be able to tell the truth only when there is absolutely no way out or when it benefits her. I hope she never sets foot in a lab again.

  2. #2 Thanny
    September 19, 2012

    I’m still a tiny bit confused about XMRV. Is it an actual virus at all, or just the combination of two mouse ERV’s from one or more murine retroviruses that existed in the past?

  3. #3 Josh
    September 19, 2012

    ‘k, you just said that the proper operation of science is a total abberation, and will not occur 98% of the time. If it entails people working against these interests, then the model is not workable.

    To highlight one case like this as extraordinary says more about the *failure* of the current approach than the success. This has to be the norm, not an exception. It is only the entire body of science that matters, not one little study.

  4. #4 Robert Donaldson
    September 19, 2012

    Silverman did not retract his XMRV discovery paper. The editors of PLoS Pathogens did and he is not happy with it:

    “The retraction follows the publication of a new study yesterday in PLoS ONE, in which the authors of the retracted paper—along with others—conclude that the 2006 results don’t hold up and report on an in-depth investigation on what went wrong in their labs. “But the discovery of XMRV, a new virus, still stands,” says one of the authors, Robert Silverman of the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio, and an erratum to withdraw the prostate cancer link would have sufficed. “Why retract results that are valid?” Silverman asks.

    The authors have already paid a price for their decision not to retract the paper voluntarily, according to Charles Chiu of the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF), the senior author of the new study. Several other journals with a higher impact factor than PLoS ONE had agreed to publish the paper, but on the condition that the authors retract the 2006 study—which the team refused unanimously, says Chiu, who wasn’t involved in that study himself.”

    Besides, I think you’re jumping the gun a bit in this case….
    Sure, he did the right thing, but was it because of his conscience or to cover his ass and come out as the honest scientist ?
    I’m not passing judgement, but nobody really knows what his real intentions were…

  5. #5 John
    September 19, 2012

    Retraction of First Paper on XMRV Takes Authors by Surprise
    http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/09/retraction-of-first-paper-on-xmr.html

    Another XMRV shoe drops: PLoS Pathogens study linking prostate cancer to virus retracted
    http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/2012/09/19/another-xmrv-shoe-drops-plos-pathogens-prostate-cancer-study-retracted/

  6. #6 Poodle Stomper
    September 19, 2012

    Thanny,
    The evidence shows that the XMRV retrovirus does exist BUT it exists only because it was inadvertently generated when researchers were passaging a human prostate tumor through several mouse strains. The short of it is that two dead retroviruses recombined and the resulting virus was able to infect the human tumor line (although, iirc it still cannot infect that particular mouse due to variations in the receptor). So yes, it’s a real (see existent) virus but it has never been in the human population and was generated accidentally in a lab by taking two nonfunctional viruses and letting them recombine in such a way as to compensate for the defunct parts.

  7. #7 Hugo
    September 20, 2012

    Keee-rist. But you are quite right that this is the way that science does move forward. Well done.

  8. #8 John Scanlon, FCD
    September 20, 2012

    Science moves forward by smart people doing the work to check whether an idea works or not. As many times as necessary!
    OTOH, retraction of a paper published 6 years ago, by the editor, without consulting the authors, because the results turned out to be honestly mistaken, is just fucked up. Fortunately, ‘Ministry of Truth’ acts like that would not happen in most fields of science.

  9. #9 Andrew
    September 20, 2012

    It seems like a fitting end to the XMRV saga. I’m glad all the key papers have been retracted, thus finally ending the story.

  10. #10 Poodle Stomper
    September 20, 2012

    I have to agree that retracting Silverman’s paper is stupid. The paper was in fact accurate. A novel retrovirus was discovered. It was discovered in the prostate tissue as claimed. He didn’t claim that the virus was the cause of the cancer or anything that was really unsupported by his data. The discovery still stands and researchers have stated that the XMRV virus, despite being lab generated, could still enlighten us as to certain nuances of gammaretroviruses. Sigh.

  11. #11 TCC
    September 20, 2012

    The authors do deserve praise as Abbie’s post states. I think there needs to be a warning associated with the Urisman paper that the association with prostate cancer was due to contamination so that any future readers who haven’t followed the entire saga are not falling into a trap.

  12. #12 Sunflower
    September 20, 2012

    So all major studies are being retracted.
    I think the only other prostate cancer study is Ila Singh ? I think she also found xmrv in breast cancer!

    I did find this study, don’t think it ever got published? I was reading its something called the Ashford Hospital cohort, there blood was sent to Ruscetti and he did the tests, have been looking hard but can’t see it published anywhere.

    http://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/CommitteesMeetingMaterials/BloodVaccinesandOtherBiologics/BloodProductsAdvisoryCommittee/ucm239304.htm

    (for Petes sake, Sunflower. if you provide a link, you dont need to copy/paste 10 pages of text– ERV)

  13. #13 ex Okie
    Back home
    September 21, 2012

    I hate to hijack your comments but have you seen the local judge’s ruling on a name change for a transgendered person? I thought you’d appreciate it because they argue religion as state law, a touch of fundamentalist epigenetics, and to top it off, people saying civil disobedience for a name change case, like OK Co jail wouldn’t be all stabby and such for being the next Thoreau.
    http://newsok.com/oklahoma-judge-refuses-to-let-men-planning-sex-change-operations-have-feminine-names/article/3710063
    This is the first time I’ve commented on Scienceblogs. If I’d thought a bit more, I suppose I’d have estrogen therapy and become a hitman ages ago. Because that’s how it works in OK.

  14. #14 Smurfette
    September 21, 2012

    Now this is proper credit. On the other hand, I read with incredulity Lipkin’s glowing comments about Judy’s balls, honesty, respectfulness, and belief in the truth:
    http://www.nature.com/news/the-scientist-who-put-the-nail-in-xmrv-s-coffin-1.11444

    Although I have to say I’m surprised she admitted the results of the study at this point.

  15. #15 Poodle Stomper
    September 21, 2012

    I’m curious how the MECFS forum members are taking this? Would I be safe in assuming that some of the crazier ones (v99 and gerwyn) still adhere to their belief in XMRV?

  16. #16 Tony Mach
    Location: A figment of your imagination
    September 21, 2012

    @Poodle Stomper

    How do the Gerwyn/V99 sockpuppets react?

    It used to be, that when I wrote something condescending about Mikovits or Gerwyn/V99 on my blog, that then my blog got hits from several different webmail accounts (I guess someone mailing new Mikovits stuff around), and then after that an anonymous commentator showed up to spew out some insults and BS on my new blogpost.

    Not anymore.

    And usually someone whose comments read like they were from Gerwyn/V99 would show up here too.

    Not anymore.

    I think they are really demoralized. I guess especially the words by Mikovits to the effect that there never was XMRV in ME/CFS patients have shut up the whole lot for good.

  17. #17 Chimp
    September 21, 2012

    Using the same test will find the same virus. With little variation.

  18. #18 Nicola
    September 21, 2012

    Yes Poodle, over on Jamie D-J’s blog, X Rx, Gerwyn and V99 are still arguing the same nonsense. Apparently the patient selection still does not please them. I suppose they think they should be in charge of that?

    I’m not up on the latest happenings, but I thought they left mecfsforums a while back? But they’re still around.

    (I’m a long-time patient and a long-time lurker here.)

  19. #19 Poodle Stomper
    September 21, 2012

    Thanks for the updates, Tony and Nicola. I kind of figured that the amount of crazy and conspiracy theory thrown about by those two would have left them too attached to their idea to ever let it go. It’s sad. I suppose there will always be cranks but at least (hopefully) most the more open-minded individuals have moved on. I hope whatever the cause, it’s found soon, although if HIV-deniers are any indication, even that won’t stop the far out crazies.

  20. #20 Jack
    September 22, 2012

    Poodle,

    The ‘nutbars’ to use Abbie’s phrase inhabit their own wee world of a forum these days: http://peoplewithme.com/forum-2.html

    Dr ‘Do-little’s’ latest blog just beggar’s belief: http://www.x-rx.net/blog/2012/09/now-you-see-it-now-you-dont.html

    The praise for Knicker-fit’s ‘courage’ made be want to puke and whilst there has been some sensible coverage of this final page, there remains a noticeable silence from the likes of WPI/Annette/Lombardi and De Meirleir in Belgium – to name but a few.

    It makes me angry that it is inferred we should respect Mikovits to the extent that we do Silverman and that those who benefitted financially from promoting this non-link-debacle are seemingly going to get away with it.

    I still cannot understand why in the US it is permitted to allow commercial ‘tests’ for such things as XMRV when they were never clinically validated or approved. It is yet another aspect of this whole 3 year devastation that will slither away into obscurity – whilst we are expect to applaud the key players?

    It’s like living in an alternate universe. Science has to take some responsibility for the behaviour of it’s own. Gods know how but Lipkin’s implication that only by spending such vast sums as this last study laid out to disprove these kind of ‘maveric’ publications seems daft – which ones to chose? Where would the cash come from?

  21. #21 Bill
    September 22, 2012

    A sad new thesaurus for science:

    “functional” ala ENCODE
    “real” ala Silverman
    “responsibility” ala Hauser

  22. #22 Tony Mach
    Location: Not far enough away when the BSSN will happen
    September 22, 2012

    No, sorry, I was wrong. After a bout of madness I decided to pay Jamie “CONNECT THE DOTS!” Deckoff-Jones’ blog a visit – bad move, I tell ya, bad move.

    V99/Gerwyn is circling JDJ, and both are in full nutter mode, spinning new theories as to “THE TRUTH™©®”.

    It’s a conspiracy, and everybody is in it! The WPI, and the media, and the Lipkin (or not, not sure from my superficial reading), and the nasty murine viruses. Guest appearances of vaxxines, hybridomas and xenografts – nobody fights for the civil rights of xenografts and lab-mice like JDJ!

    I expect that the circling of V99 and JDJ to continue until the tidal forces slow down V99 enough so he falls into JDJ in the near future, which will result first in a BS supernova (BSSN) followed by the creation of a super-massive BS black-hole (BSBH) of cosmic proportion that will suck in the entire humanity and end life as we know it.

  23. #23 Tony Mach
    Location: Area 51 black site, developing weapons-grade alien murine retroviruses – but the nasty kind! MUHAHAHA!!!!!
    September 22, 2012

    @Jack

    Yeah, just took a short look, and the worst nutters seem to have left mecfsforumsdotcom and are now on peoplenotlikemedotcom – the latter now looks like the former some two years ago.

    While most of the forum is insane (and I urge people not to visit it, if they value their sanity), it is nice to see that at least one Mikovits acolyte has doubt in his faith and asks “Did this all [TM: Her pleading to Dr. Alberts that HGRV is for realz] slip her mind yesterday?” – of course without any consequences to everybody’s cognitive dissonance.

    As to the “clinically validated”: That is a red herring. The validation is a formal matter, the head of a lab declares that everything is a-okay. No other investigation or somesuch. And VIPdx were validated:
    http://parakoch.blogspot.de/2012/02/vincent-lombardi-we-validated-our-xmrv.html

    Besides, AFAIK there is a industry friendly loophole that if they say that the test is not for diagnostic purposes (or somesuch) and only a clinician can order it, then the FDA can do nothing – of course, a not-for-diagnosis-test is quite futile IMHO.

  24. #24 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    September 24, 2012

    No, this is not science.

    Unfortunately, most people cannot see what is happening here because they are unaware of the two dogs. They are unaware of what is going in the world.

    Surf to,
    http://web.archive.org/web/20110211200921/http://vipdx.com
    rotate your head by 90 degrees and then go to,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_and_Compasses
    You will see the same picture. Most people however won’t see because they still believe they see something different. Their mind has been contaminated by trickery and they are unaware of it.

    XMRV is a code: the ‘X’ says that you won’t see the M, R, and V in the real message. When these characters are added to the message, you will see the messenger: Mercury (written in Latin: Mercvrivs). The trick is to see the real message. The real message being that Satan *is* a *cure*. Most people won’t see because they cannot see the trick. I just mentioned both the trick and the message but most people won’t see. The VIPDx website (first URL) depictures the story but most people wont’t see. Althought they see the VIP, they believe the VIP is something else.

  25. #25 Tony Mach
    September 24, 2012

    Dear Marc Fluks,

    this is a blog about research into (retro-)viruses. Can you stay ontopic? If you are interested in discussing Freemasons don’t do it here, please.

    I suggest you go to Stef’s blog instead – he has some very good posts on Freemasons:
    http://stefzucconi.blogspot.de/2007/06/connections.html
    http://stefzucconi.blogspot.de/2007/05/pyramid-spotting.html
    http://stefzucconi.blogspot.de/2007/06/pyramid-spotting-with-stanley-k-redux.html
    http://stefzucconi.blogspot.de/2007/05/belly-of-beast.html
    http://stefzucconi.blogspot.de/2006/05/king-of-potato-people-moments.html

    I think you will find the topics on Stefs blog more to your taste than what is being discussed here.

  26. #26 Poodle Stomper
    September 24, 2012

    Marc,
    I realize there is a language barrier issue here, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.

  27. #27 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    September 25, 2012

    Poodle Stomper said,
    >I realize there is a language barrier issue here, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.

    I know. That is just what is wrong here.

    In order to understand, we must realize that most people see things that do not exist and that they cannot see things that do exist due to brainwashing. The 1984 novel by Orwell is not a story – it is real and most people cannot see it. The story is called Ragnarok in Nordic mythology, Titanomachy in Greek mythology and the Apocalypse in the Bible. In western society, it is called Freemasonry.

    It is about the astrology, alchemy, and the reincarnation of Satan. The story says that we live in Hell and that Satan returns during a Midsummer Solar eclipse when the Milky Way (separating the two constellations Dog in the sky) vanishes. Then the two dogs merge and Satan returns. This is depicted on the VIPDx website (the microscope is the Solar Eclipse and the VIP is Satan). One dog is called Mercury (we can all see Mercury – unfortunately, Mercury is always lieing), and the second dog is called Apollo (most people cannot see Apollo – unfortunately, Apollo is always telling the truth). Satan is Mercury + Apollo (called Othos, Typhon, Poros, or Set) – so Satan is two entities instead of one.

    Most things we see, hear and read address this story but people are not aware of it. They believe they see, hear or read something different. However, they see illusions, hear homophones and read anagrams. When they are told what they really see, they usally still cannot see it because their own mind will not allow it. The world is very different than what their senses tell and they just cannot interpret things right.

    When it comes to XMRV, I suppose the XMRV fraud is based on the BBC radio series The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy_Primary_and_Secondary_Phases
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy_Tertiary_to_Quintessential_Phases#Fit_the_Twenty-Sixth

    The trick is to see the numbers 42, 101, 555, and 666. 42 refers to the Apocalypse and 101 refers to both CI (the Solar Eclipse and the One during Midsummer/Midwinter) and the Sun between the two tropics. In fact, the XMRV papers were retracted the last moment possible before autumn (in both 2011 and 2012) – which corresponds to 101 (the number of patients in the Mikovits paper). So far, I haven’t seen the number 42 in the XMRV story. 555 (triple death) is the number of the Whittemore Office and 666 (Mark of the Beast) is the coordinates of the Midsummer Sun (6 hours right ascension, 66 degrees co-declination).

    Anyway, it is a weird story – but this is what Freemasons do to us. This is the way they rule the world. They controll our thoughts and most of us don’t even know because we believe that what our senses tell is real. This is why the Freemason logo is present on the VIPDx website, why there are many codes present in the XMRV story, why most of us cannot see what is wrong, and why real scientists cannot find XMRV.

  28. #28 Poodle Stomper
    September 25, 2012

    I’m not sure if you’re nuts of a world-class comedic genius. In either case, may I suggest a Renolds-Wrap brand foil hat? Sure it’s a bit more expensive than the Wal-Mart brand foil but you get what you pay for and the Reynolds brand really helps filter out those excess brain melting rays that lesser brands won’t.

  29. #29 Ben
    September 25, 2012

    I call poe. Yep. Definitely a poe…

    Then I’m off to get the razor blades in case I’m wrong.

  30. #30 OWE
    September 26, 2012

    @Marc Fluks

    Have you heard of The Mighty Hutzliwutz?

    Hutzliwutzology has it it that it lives on Mars (this is why “Curiosity” has been sent there -to look for it but they won’t find it). It invented the numbers 555, 666 and so on to deflect humans from the Martian winter solstice. The number 42 is a typo and should be 41.9999999999. But this was too complicated to write. It stands for the Great Cake Baking day, sometimes happening on December 14th. .

    Hutzliwutz says “Forget 666! 3.1415 is the one that drives you crazy!”

    We are all doomed!

    OWE

  31. #31 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    September 26, 2012

    Poodle Stomper wrote
    >I’m not sure if you’re nuts of a world-class comedic genius.

    No, this is what reality is about. (Welcome in the world of brainwashing). As an astrophysicist, I can see the astrology but that’s all. I noticed the entire story because I wanted to know why people cannot see reality (I have never been brainwashed myself).

    Most people cannot see reality because they believe that reality is something different. However, the things they see don’t exist. Their thoughts are a story but they ain’t aware of the story. They are dreaming and they will never wake up. They will never see what is going on. They will never be aware of their own thoughts.

    When it comes to XMRV, most believers think it is about mice. However, the Lord of Mice is Apollo. The trick is to see Apollo but most people cannot see Apollo. The virus is Mercury (the messenger of the Gods) so *mouse-virus* encodes for Apollo + Mercury = Satan (Orthos). Virus-culture also encodes for Orthos since Apollo is the Deity of Culture.

    There never was a XMRV. This is not virology (science), this is a Masonic Piece of Work (pseudo-science, quackery). Everyone (scientists, patient organizations) in the CFS community knew that it was just a story. This is why scientists said that the story was not true. The patients however were not allowed to know because they might see Apollo – and thus, the patient organizations were lying. I myself was the only one that told the truth. In fact, I even told Science magazine what was going on here *before* the Lombardi et al. paper was published. I even told Science that one day, they had to retract the paper before they published it. So Science always knew about it.

    The people that brought us XMRV are Freemasons and these people play these kind of mind games. Not just in the CFS community or pseudo-science – it can be observed *everywhere*. But most people just ain’t aware of it. An example: George Bush, a Freemason, attacked Iraq 555 days after 9/11 and he asked congress 555 billion dollar to fight the war. 555 is a Freemason code for the magic of Odin (Nordic Mercury). In fact 555, is very important in politics. 666 is very important too (666 = homosex, so homosexuality does not exist). And 101 is the most important number in the world. It can be observed everywhere but most people cannot see it. In 1984, Orwell introduced Room 101 and in the XMRV scenario, Mikovits introduced 101 patients. Mikovits used to be a vitamin-C quack and 101 = CI (Roman numerals) where C is the Solar Eclipse and I is The One (Mercury or Orthos as the One and Only). This is important to cancer quacks since the Midsummer Solar eclipse was in the constellation Cancer during the Titanomachy (800 BC). It in fact is the Second Labour of Herakles (and we are all Herakles). The story is depicted on the back side of all Euro banknotes (the dogs are the numbers) and the 1-Euro coin is the Solar eclipse.

    The trick is be aware of these numbers, to notice that Shakespeare is Athena (Isis), the Devil is Mercury, the Holy Ghost is Apollo, and that we will all kill God (Zeus) in the New Age. All Beatle songs are about this story (Beatles is an anagram for Able Set, empower Satan), most TV shows are about it (Twin Peaks even tells the story of the two dogs), the Olympic games are about it (the London games where about it). Even a cup of Coffee (Solar Eclipse) and a cup of Tea (merging two dogs in Monoceros) address the story.

    The story is everywhere and although it is everywhere and most people think about it 24/7, they are not aware of it.

    This picture tells the story,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Far_away_and_long_ago_by_Willy_Pogany.png
    The dogs are Canis Minor (left) and Canis Mayor (right). We see the Milky way in the constellation Monoceros (the Unicorn, the Cornucopia of Zeus), the Sun (Zeus) and the Moon (Maia). I wonder where Sirius is…

  32. #32 mike
    September 26, 2012

    Love the fact that the original researchers have, based on new data and new techniques and the work and advances in knowledge published by dozens of colleagues, revisited their previous work, identified the confounding factors, produced a definitive answer, and published it. Absolutely hate the fact that the previous research was retracted!

    Retractions should be reserved for work or results that never existed – publications of lies, fake data, or deliberate mischaracterizations of results. Everything else – the false leads, the triumphant successes followed by total failures, and the constant coarse and fine tuning of our understanding of the universe – belongs in the scientific record. Both the original results and the later demonstration of how they were obtained are valid, and both are part of our science. You can’t go back and wipe out the work of every researcher who thought they measured the presence of phlogiston, and you shouldn’t erase the work of people who thought they discovered an unknown cause of disease – even if they were all later proved wrong.

  33. #33 Ben
    September 26, 2012

    “When it comes to XMRV, most believers think it is about mice. However, the Lord of Mice is Apollo. The trick is to see Apollo but most people cannot see Apollo. The virus is Mercury (the messenger of the Gods) so *mouse-virus* encodes for Apollo + Mercury = Satan (Orthos).”

    Phew. I can put the razor blades back…

  34. #34 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    September 27, 2012

    Ben wrote,
    >Phew. I can put the razor blades back…

    You just cannot see what is going on (and you’re not supposed to see it, your own mind will do anything it can to prevent it). The trick is people believing the story is true and that sceptics telling the truth make up a weird story instead. This is what brainwashing is about: people believing stories are real. There must be no doubt.

    The present version of the XMRV story is that it is contamination. But this does not explain why patients are ‘tested’ false-positive and the controll group is not. So Freemasons will soon rewrite the past again (maybe Mikovits has never been born or there never has been a Lombardi paper ?). This is the central theme of 1984 by Orwell. This is what these people do. It is not my story, it is Masonic Satanism.

  35. #35 Poodle Stomper
    September 27, 2012

    If they rewrite history, an they write in a part about me getting the winning lotto ticket? I’d like that. Also make me a rock start. Thanks!

  36. #36 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    September 28, 2012

    It is always very hard to convince believers that their own mind is playing tricks on them. In the case of the XMRV fraud, the evidence is there but believers now consider the evidence being part of their belief system to avoid reality again. I’ll try again…

    The XMRV fraud was promoted by the WPI and the WPI logo is a nocturnal butterfly. Orthos (Mercury + Apollo) is not just a dog, it also is the nocturnal butterfly and the nocturnal butterfly of the WPI logo is called Aedia Leucomelas. The first author of the Mikovits paper has been Vincent Lombardi. His thesis (Master Thesis, not Ph.D. Thesis) is about a nocturnal butterfly,
    http://www.wpinstitute.org/images/univ_logo.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthos
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aedia_leucomelas
    http://innopac.library.unr.edu/record=b2425438~S0
    The Aedia_leucomelas page says: The Eastern Alchymist, Sweet Potato Leaf Worm or Sorcerer (Aedia leucomelas) is a moth of the Noctuidae family. The sorcerer of alchemy is Mercury. In fact, Freemasonry is alchemy.

    The URL of the office of Whittemore, owner of both the WPI and VIPDx is,
    http://www.whittemorenvlaw.com
    The number is 555 (triple death, the number of Mercury and magic). The address of the VIPDx can be found on, http://web.archive.org/web/20110211200921/http://vipdx.com as Fox Avenue, Reno. The Desert Fox is Set (Satan), not Rommel. It is Orthos, the 2 dogs.

    The signs/evidence can be observed everywhere – but most people will not notice because they are brainwashed. In fact, the Deity of Brainwashing is… Set. The symbol of brainwashing is the Was (the scepter of Set, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was) – this is where the word brainwashing comes from.

    We have been tricked by Freemasons.

  37. #37 Ben
    September 28, 2012

    It must be true, right? You couldn’t just make something like that up?

  38. #38 Claudiu Bandea
    September 28, 2012

    You must be all familiar, here at ERV, with one of Gary Larson’s famous cartoons on what we say to dogs, and what they hear:

    We: Okay, Ginger! I’ve had it! You stay out of the garbage! Understand, Ginger! Stay out of the garbage, or else!

    Ginger: blah blah Ginger blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Ginger blah blah blah blah blah…

    This is what we might hear listening to Mark Fluks’ rant: blah blah Lombardi/Mikovits blah blah blah blah blah blah XMRV/CFS blah blah blah blah blah blah Patients ‘Tested’ False-Positive blah blah blah blah blah blah Control Group Not blah blah blah blah blah blah Fraud/Quackery blah blah blah blah blah blah Not Accidents blah blah blah blah blah blah…

  39. #39 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    September 29, 2012

    Ben remarked,
    >It must be true, right? You couldn’t just make something like that up?

    No, it is real – and it is present everywhere. Most people just cannot see it. Most TV-commercials end with a Solar Eclipse – where the eclipse is an ellipse, not a circle. The elliptic Solar Eclipse (and the 6 colour rainbow of the New Age) can be observed everywhere around us. However, it is much harder to notice the two dogs (an example: a zebra crossing is two dogs – this is why the Beatle Albym Abbey Road is about a zebra crossing).

    Another XMRV-example: According to Mikovits et al., XMRV-disease is called XAND. The trick is to notice that this is a homophone: XAND sounds as croissant, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croissant

    The next trick is to notice that the croissant in the Sky is the Solar Eclipse. This also explains (again) why Mikovits is a Vitamin C quack.

    Next, XAND is to be healed (healing refers to uniting the two dogs in the Sky) with orthomolecular medicine – where orthomolecular refers to the alchemy of Orthos. The problem is that victims of such therapies cannot see what is wrong. Most of them are obsessed by it and behave as psychiatric patients (they are not psychiatric patients, they are brainwashed instead). See for an example, today’s Daily Mail,
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100183212/its-safer-to-insult-the-prophet-mohammed-than-to-contradict-the-armed-wing-of-the-me-brigade/

    The problem to people like me that are aware of Freemasonry is that it is very hard to convince other people what is going on in the world because almost all people are brainwashed. Most people rejecting things as astrology, alchemy, and reincarnation are in fact believers without being aware of it. Most atheists in fact believe in Satan without being aware of it. They just cannot see the tricks – the are dreaming and they will never wake up.

  40. #40 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    September 30, 2012

    Some additional information…

    The – now retracted – Alter et al. paper was announced by a Dutch magazine called Ortho. This in fact is the same entity as Orthos. Patients were told to believe that this is a medical journal but in fact Ortho is the main target of Dutch quack busters. Ortho proved to be the way to launch the XMRV-saga by patients of CFS quack De Meirleir (some people think that XMRV was even invented by De Meirleir, a Freemason, but I don’t know it this is true).
    https://www.ortho.nl/tijdschriften/orthomoleculair-magazine

    In the Lipkin et al. study it says: All CFS/ME subjects met both the 1994 Fukuda criteria and 2003 Canadian consensus criteria The latter set of criteria are however not scientific criteria – these are (again) orthomolecular criteria. In fact, the first author, Carruthers, is a yoga teacher (yoga is alchemy).
    http://mbio.asm.org/content/3/5/e00266-12.full
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_q=%22Myalgic%20encephalomyelitis%2Fchronic%20fatigue%20syndrome%22&as_sauthors=Carruthers
    http://www.iyengaryogavancouver.com/assoc/history.html
    http://books.google.nl/books?q=Bruce+Carruthers+Yoga

    Also, the Lipkin et al. study says: Proposed candidates have included (…) Candida albicans, Mycoplasma. These ’causes’ of CFS have been proposed by quacks, not by real scientists.

    In Freemasonry, the Ragnarok scenario is in fact the continuation of the succession myth. It says that one day God (Zeus) will be murdered and succeeded by one (or all) of his children. The sons are Apollo, Dionysos, Herakles, Mercury, Poros/Orthos, and the daughter is Athena. The riddle to solve is which one will be the next ruler of the Sky. Alternate scenarios: Zeus already has been succeeded – by Herakles or Mercury or even by his father, Saturn, and we don’t know it yet. According to Greek mythology, the only person knowing the name of the successor is Prometheus and the first wife of Zeus, Metis, predicted that her son or both of her children will succeed Zeus: Poros and Athena (in Freemasonry, Poros is called Ashlar). According to Egyptian mythology and orthodox Christianity it is Apollo, according to reformed Christianity it is Mercury, and according to Humanists it is Herakles (Mankind).

  41. #41 OWE
    September 30, 2012

    @ Claudiu Bandea,

    You forgot the

    “blah blah blah freemasons blah blah blah”!

    OWE

  42. #42 Poodle Stomper
    September 30, 2012

    I can only read about 2 sentences of that word salad before I go numb. It clearly must be that the Freemasons did this to me subliminally so that I wouldn’t learn the truth…

  43. #43 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    October 1, 2012

    Poodle Stomper said,
    >It clearly must be that the Freemasons did this to me subliminally so that I wouldn’t learn the truth…

    This is what brainwashing does to people. All the facts are there, but people still cannot see because their own mind is trained to reject reality. The mind is trained to perceive something else – however, this something else does not exist. It is a mind game fabricated by Freemasons. Victims of brainwashing always believe that their induced thoughts address reality – there is no doubt. They have been brainwashed since the first day of their life and they think that the world and reality are the same thing because this is what they have been told. But it does not have to be this way, we can also think for ourselves and start doubting the things we are supposed to see and explore our own thoughts.

    Another example that was distributed as a news item yesterday:
    http://4354.a.hostable.me/chronicfatiguesyndrome/cfs/i-remember-me-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-cfs-1-of-9/
    The corresponding YouTube channel is http://www.youtube.com/user/ncf1

    Here you will find the CFS-documentary I remember ME by Kim Snyder (2000). However, you will also find occult (Masonic) video’s like Norwegian Celery Farmers – Evil Dr Skoll. This in fact refers to the Norwegian Ragnarok-story since Skoll is the Greater Dog in the Sky, refering to Mercury as a constellation (as the Egyptian deity Thoth). So the owner of this channel, NCF1 in Australia, is aware of what is going on in the CFS community. The video is uploaded as a Masonic key but most patients will not be aware of it. The story says that Herakles, the gatekeeper of Heaven/Olympus, must collect all keys (in Greek mythology, we are Herakles ourselves and the Labours of Herakles are a training in alchemy) – that we must solve Masonic riddles to be aware of reality. This is exactly what I did.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsGS3hcpMX4&list=PL9795EC8E4DE0181F
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUsqQftHiF0
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Remember_Me
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sk%C3%B6ll

  44. #44 Jack
    October 2, 2012

    Journal Apologizes for Retracting XMRV Paper Without Contacting Author: http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/10/journal-apologizes-for-retractin.html

  45. #45 Dr Croissant-Dogs
    October 4, 2012

    Mark – your word salad might go down better with a nice dressing. A sprinkling of haloperidol perhaps?

    Don’t forget to warn people that the salad contains nuts.

    Schizophrenia – it’s a hell of a trip.

  46. #46 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    October 5, 2012

    Anonymous wrote,
    >your word salad might go down better with a nice dressing

    It is not my word salad, I just mentioned what really is going on here. The fact that most people cannot see magic tricks doesn’t mean that there are no tricks concealing reality. This is why these tricks have been developed in the first place.

    Most people that cannot see the tricks are very persistent to believe the world and reality are the same thing and consequently that there must be something wrong those of us being aware of the difference between the two. However, they themselves are the believers, not the sceptics realizing what is going on. Magic is about deceiving the senses: believers just see and hear a story. We can however try to see (and hear) what the magician really does and what (s)he tries to conceal. This is much easier than believing the story itself. The odd thing is that these magicians call the believers dreamers and schizophrenics.

    When you see the trick, when you wake up, you will be shocked !

  47. #47 Rob
    October 7, 2012

    An absolutely fascinating theory Marc, all this business with NCF, Dr. Skoll, CFS and Masonic riddles; I wonder who could possibly be behind all this??

  48. #48 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    October 8, 2012

    Rob asked,
    >I wonder who could possibly be behind all this??

    The story started in Egypt, 4500 years ago with Imhotep (the historical God Thoth/Mercury) and Pharao Menes (or Pharaoh Narmer), the historical God Horus (Apollo). Today, the story is planted into society and our mind by Rosecrucians and Freemasons and it is everywhere. The problem is that although most people think about it all the time, they are not aware of it. This is because the things they see are part of the story, they see something different, and they believe their observations are real.

    When we look (listen, read) very carefully, we can actually see (hear, read) the story. All it takes is to forget everything we’ve ever been told. We have to think as a young child again and observe the things we are familiar with for the first time in our life. The problem is that people think too much and since most of us are brainwashed, everything will go wrong when it comes to the interpretation of our observations. Another problem is that when we are aware of reality, we will see the most horrible things and we will see that most people are like zombies – they are ignorant of almost everything and live a weird dream.

    Those of us that want to see the story might read 1984 by Orwell – everything is there (Big Brother is both Orthos/Satan and the Brotherhood of Freemasons). Or watch the DVDs of the TV-series The Prisoner and Twin Peaks to be aware of the two dogs (these series are about discovering the story itself and are very helpful to learn what is going on).

  49. #49 Rob
    October 8, 2012

    Tremendously exciting and interesting fare, Marc, to be sure. So let me get this straight – essentially you are saying the guy who wrote the song Evil Dr. Skoll and uploaded CFS videos is in effect a raging Freemason/Rosecrucian, would you consider that to be a somewhat accurate statement?

  50. #50 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    October 9, 2012

    Rob wrote,
    >(…) would you consider that to be a somewhat accurate statement?

    No.

    Your mind is telling you that you don’t want to see it. That you prefer to remain ignorant instead (and this is what I wrote). People might be so convinced that their observations are real that they no longer explore what is going on. They believe they already know everything and because of this they are very easy to manipulate with magic tricks.

    The things you see just don’t exist.

  51. #51 Marc Fluks
    October 9, 2012

    It is very easy to find data… an example: The most popular CFS quack in the World is Kenny de Meirleir from Belgium. Patients are not allowed to know their favourite quacks are Freemasons and Scientologists and that most patient organizations are run by Freemasons.

    Now turn to this book on Freemasonry in Belgium: The Children of Hiram (Dutch: De Kinderen van Hiram) – where Hiram is the builder of the first Temple of Solomon (Freemasons and Jews believe that Satan will return in the third Temple of Solomon) in Jerusalem (Zion – this is why the Olympic 2012 logo can also read as Zion), http://web.archive.org/web/20070226185422/http://www.leselevesdethemis.be/De_Kinderen_van_Hiram.pdf
    Page 110 reads, translated from Dutch into English: Members of the lodge “Branding” in Brussels are criminal specialist Bart De Schutter, the lawyer Paul Vroede, scientists Steenhaut Oscar and Charles Susanne and physicians Jean-Pierre De Waele and Kenny De Meirleir.

    What most people don’t know is that De Meirleir has issued a Dutch press release stating that he has found XMRV in CFS patients. He also sold the XMRV test via his company R.E.D. Laboratories,
    http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33/Fit-Gezond/article/detail/1148821/2010/08/24/Nieuw-virus-gevonden-bij-pati-euml-nten-met-chronisch-vermoeidheidssyndroom.dhtml
    The press release states that the XMRV findings have been confirmed by Harvard Medical School and the National Institues of Health.
    In fact, all the tests and therapies De Meirleir ever invented are related to Satan (Orthos). Links between him and Orthomolecular medicine and/or anti-aging can be found all over the Internet (anti-aging means that the mind will die so the body is available for hosting a new mind).

    However, the most patients don’t want to see it. They like to see something different.

  52. #52 Rob
    October 9, 2012

    Marc, what if I were to tell you that the song Evil Dr. Skoll has nothing whatsoever to do with your interpretation, nor was the reason you gave for the CFS documentary uploaded to the channel accurate seeing as though I was the one that wrote the song and uploaded the documentary?

  53. #53 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    October 10, 2012

    References

    Albert Pike: Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (1871),
    http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/masonry/Albert_Pike_-_Morals_and_Dogma.pdf
    This is the Bible of Freemasonry. Since it is in the public domain, you will find no secrets (however, you will find the above ‘word salad’). I didn’t need this book myself since I noticed the story in the real world.

    David R. Hawkins, Linus Pauling: Orthomolecular Psychiatry: Treatment of Schizophrenia (1973),
    http://www.amazon.com/Orthomolecular-Psychiatry-Schizophrenia-David-Hawkins/dp/0716708981
    This is the Bible of Quackery – this is the source of the ‘research’ of people like Mikovits. Since I didn’t found the text online, I borrowed it from the Psychiatry Department of Amsterdam University.

    Warning. Please be aware that these books are dangerous. They might affect the mind; some people will believe they are enlightened and turned into monsters.

  54. #54 Rob
    October 10, 2012

    Ah, i see some neat direct-question-dodging action right there, nifty stuff.

  55. #55 Rob
    October 10, 2012

    Marc, without pointing me in any other directions with references, can you please directly enlighten me as to why the explanations you gave for the song I wrote – Evil Dr Skoll – and also why I uploaded the CFS videos vary to the ones you gave?

  56. #56 Marc Fluks
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    October 11, 2012

    Rob wrote,
    >can you please directly enlighten me as to why the explanations you gave for the song I wrote – Evil Dr Skoll – and also why I uploaded the CFS videos vary to the ones you gave?

    You better explain yourself…?

    I referred to the connection between a documentary on CFS (quackery) and Skoll (the Greater Dog in the Ragnarok scenario and important in Freemasonry). As illustrated above, I am aware of the story. I am aware of what is happening here. And I don’t like it.

    This is what happened yesterday…

    Patent Mikovits et al. on phytotherapy for prostate cancer,
    http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2012061790
    Those of us that are are aware of the story know that phytotherapy refers to (neo)fyt – a pupil, not an herb, and that in quackery a pupil refers to a Solar Eclipse. Cancer refers to a Midsummer Solar Eclipse since Herakles defeated the Krab (Cancer) in his 2nd Labour. So this is (again) quackery.

    Mikovits and De Meirleir (see above) will speak at a CFS conference,
    http://www.meassociation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/NM_Conf_Posterb-723×1024.jpg
    The latest ‘research news’ of De Meirleir is that cells are communicating with each other with prions acting as antennas on the cell surface. In the presentation, there are two dogs (twice).

    These people never stop.

  57. #57 Rob
    October 11, 2012

    ..I better explain myself?? Right… Mate, you are trying to tell the person who wrote a song why he wrote it – the Skoll reference you make is utterly incorrect for starters as it is a completely different Skoll the song is about – you also state “the uploader NCF1 knows what is going on in the CFS community” which is incorrect again – and you have the supreme arrogance to tell me to explain myself. Heard about that guy Beivik who went nuts? You aren’t far off mate, you are living in a fantastical, delusional world where everything fits the pieces you want them to, and even when they dont you just avoid the truth and carry on with your fantasy. The song is absolutely nothing to do wih the idiotic, fantastical description you offered, and there is absolutely no connection in any way whatsoever to the CFS documentary that shares the channel. There are no riddles, no nothing, and you, mate, are one scary and deluded individual.

  58. #58 fnxtr
    October 11, 2012

    Wow. Timecube 2.0

  59. #59 Doctor Croissant Dogs
    Planet Tiwkcuf
    October 13, 2012

    Mark – the alien spoon-meat gives rise to a dancing antelope.

    Four worried cranes one? The Tyne Bridge creaks at midnight operatic pregnancy sustaining moonlight illusion.

    Oh. Jaffa Cakes.

  60. #60 Dirk Gently
    October 13, 2012

    No doubt Marc fully believes that the song “I Am The Walrus” – which Lennon of course wrote as a rebuff to those that looked too much into their lyrics – as a cryptic Masonic riddle in itself.

  61. #61 Tony Mach
    October 14, 2012

    Boys, I know writing about masonic conspiracies is fun and all, but can you take it to a blog where it actually would be ontopic? And where there are people who actually give a fuck about masonic conspiracies and the thoughts of people who see them everywhere?