The Election Isn’t Over Yet

Posted by jrosenhouse on November 13, 2008
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As I am sure you are aware, there are still three Senate elections that have yet to be resolved. The Democrats need all three of them to get to the magic sixty. On November 4 I would have considered that very unlikely indeed. But now I’m not so sure.

The big one, from my perspective, is the Franken-Coleman race in Minnesota. Not only is Coleman the emptiest of Republican empty suits, but Franken is an impressive fellow just on his merits. The twittering, halfwit, gossip-mongering, know-nothing, cable-news pundit set have largely dismissed Franken as just a comedian. This should be regarded as professional jealousy, since the pundits feel threatened by anyone who is serious about policy and who knows more about the issues than they do.

At the moment Franken trails by 206 votes. So tiny a margin triggers an automatic hand recount, which will begin next week and is likely to go until Mid-December. As in Florida eight years ago the issue comes down to ballots on which the voter’s intention was clear, but which were unreadable by the optical scanning machines. As Nate Silver reports here and here, there are currently 34,000 ballots that were rejcted by the machines, and they come heavily from districts in which Franken had a lead. Consequently, it is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that he will prevail in the recount.

Anticipating this possibility, the Republicans and their media lackeys are already doing everything they can to challenge the integrity of Minnesota’s Democratic Secretary of State. Of course, he will be instantly transformed into a model of probity and honesty if Coleman emerges victorious. The Republicans want to be sure that if Franken wins his victory is called into as much question as possible. They do this because, in addition to their other failings, Republicans have no class.

Meanwhile, the Alaska race is now leaning heavily toward Democratic challenger Mark Begich over convicted felon and Republican incumbent Ted Stevens. Stevens held the lead on election night, but those totals ignored some 80,000 early and absentee ballots that had not been counted. Begich now has an 800 vote lead, and most of what remains comes from Democrat friendly areas. It’s looking good for him.

That just leaves the big race in Georgia, which will see a run-off between Republican incumbent Saxby Chambliss and his Democratic challenger Jim Martin. It is possible you have been thinking, perhaps even hoping, that with the Presidential election over John McCain would go back to the fellow you could respect even if you didn’t like his politics. Surely that lying, flip-flopping, mean-spirited, ungracious, borderline unstable freak we saw on the campaign trail was just an aberration.

Well, get over it. Six years ago McCain had this to say about the ads used by Chambliss against his triple amputee war veteran opponent Max Cleland:

I’d never seen anything like that ad. Putting pictures of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden next to the picture of a man who left three limbs on the battlefield — it’s worse than disgraceful. It’s reprehensible.

Now McCain is actively campaigning for the man who used those ads. Remember that creepy moment in the first debate when McCain suddenly started gushing about his profound love for war veterans and about how they know he’ll take care of them? Surprise! He was full of it.

I don’t know if Martin can win. Georgia went for McCain by five points. But it would be pretty sweet if the odious Chambliss can be defeated.

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Comments

  1. #1 heddle
    November 13, 2008

    Franken is the cat’s meow. The senate, seeking diversity, surely needs someone who is into rape humor.

    However, I do hope the Democrats make it to 60.

  2. #2 HP
    November 13, 2008

    Maybe it goes without saying (at least, I’ve yet to see anyone else say it), but the party that elected Sonny Bono, Fred Grandy, Fred Thompson, Clint Eastwood, Ronald Reagan, and Arnold Schwarzenegger has no business belittling Franken’s background as an entertainer.

  3. #3 heddle
    November 13, 2008

    HP,

    That’s OK with me. As an independent, I’ll feel free to mention Franken’s rape humor any time it seems appropriate.

    Clint Eastwood, btw, rocks.

  4. #4 HP
    November 13, 2008

    “rape humor”

    Sorry, no clue what you’re talking about.

  5. #5 JimCH
    November 13, 2008

    heddle…
    That joke was at a staff joke writing meeting. It didn’t make it to the show. It’s not a stretch to understand that a significant portion of joke writing involves stream of consciousness brain-storming. Not everything that comes out in such sessions is funny, or even appropriate. That’s the point of the exercise; you dump everything out then you filter it.
    But Chambliss smearing a triple amputee war veteran as unpatriotic . . . now that’s funny.

  6. #6 Bob
    November 13, 2008

    But then, when did Heddle display any class?

  7. #7 HP
    November 13, 2008

    Never mind; I did some googling.

    You know, for a so-called independent, you’re awfully eager to take your marching orders from the NRSC.

    Heddle, you’re a stooge. You’re being used, and you like it.

  8. #8 heddle
    November 13, 2008

    JimCH,

    Oh–I see. Very uncharitable of me not to give him a free pass given that the jokes didn’t make it on the air.

  9. #9 dean
    November 13, 2008

    “But Chambliss smearing a triple amputee war veteran as unpatriotic… now that’s funny”

    No no no – to the Republicans at the time it was NECESSARY because he was on the other side, and it would be unpatriotic to let him be elected again.

    That whole episode has to be one of, if not the most, disgusting smear campaigns in recent history. I can’t imagine anyone defending it (but I’m sure someone at the time did)

  10. #10 Jason Rosenhouse
    November 13, 2008

    heddle -

    I have no idea what you are referring to, but I gather that Franken told a tasteless joke at some point. I’m truly devastated to hear that. Considering that you have devoted more than one blog post to professing your undying love for Sarah Palin, who happily accuses people of palling around with terrorists when she is not telling one bald-faced lie after another about her record, I don’t exactly regard you as a good judge of character.

    Incidentally, why do you constantly feel the need to reduce people to one simple tag line. You did it here with Franken. Whenever I bring up Sam Harris I can usually count on you to stop by to let me know he has some strange ideas about consciousness.

    Don’t you think that’s a bit childish?

  11. #11 SLC
    November 13, 2008

    Prof. Rosenhouse of the Virginia State University James Madison, certainly has some interesting colleagues at the various State University campuses in Virginia. David Heddle, Pat Michaels, and Fred Singer, quite a trio of clowns.

  12. #12 heddle
    November 13, 2008

    HP,

    You know, for a so-called independent, you’re awfully eager to take your marching orders from the NRSC.

    Yes. Because mocking a tasteless Democrat means you are for the Republican.

    Jason,

    I have no idea what you are referring to

    ? That seems darn near impossible. I wasn’t even following politics (that was Before Palin) and I heard of the controversy regarding his rape jokes and Playboy high-brow comedic opus.

    Don’t you think that’s a bit childish?

    Well, yeah. (And of course I’m the only person in the blogosphere who would bring up past sins to rain on the parade of a politician being praised.)

  13. #13 heddle
    November 13, 2008

    SLC,

    Yes we are trying to get Jason to make it four for a nice game of bridge but he steadfastly refuses.

  14. #14 Jason Rosenhouse
    November 13, 2008

    Bridge? Bah! That’s just a silly card game. Chess on the other hand, now that’s a game!

  15. #15 SLC
    November 13, 2008

    Re Heddle

    Real men play poker.

  16. #16 JimCH
    November 13, 2008

    heddle…

    Oh–I see. Very uncharitable of me not to give him a free pass given that the jokes didn’t make it on the air.

    Nice of you to read the part that you wanted to attack & not read the rest (reminds me of another topic). I take it then that you do find it to be a stretch that brain storming sessions sometimes lead to ideas that one would filter? So yes, given the context, which you chose to ignore for smarmy political purposes, it is unreasonable of you.

  17. #17 J. J. Ramsey
    November 13, 2008

    If you are wondering just what the heck Heddle is talking about:

    In the 1995 New York magazine profile of “Saturday Night Live,” Franken is described among a group of show writers sounding out a spoof of Andy Rooney centered on a sedative pill bottle found in the “60 Minutes” essayist’s desk. Franken and fellow writers Norm MacDonald and Jim Downey kick around fictional Rooney responses to the discovery of the bottle.

    The article quotes Franken putting an edgy twist on the discussion: “And ‘I give the pills to Lesley Stahl. Then when Lesley’s passed out, I take her to the closet and rape her.’ Or `That’s why you never see Lesley until February.’ Or, `When she passes out I put her in various positions and take pictures of her.”

    MacDonald takes it a step further, suggesting that the Rooney rape comment be directed at other “60 Minutes” icons Mike Wallace and Ed Bradley. Franken chimes in: “What about `I drag Mike into my office and rape him. Right here! I guess that makes me bad.”‘

    (source)

  18. #18 Ramesh
    November 13, 2008

    I am in the “Joe must go” camp, right now. I secretly wish one of the 3 undecided races would go to republicans, just to neuter holy Joe Lieberman. I find him really obnoxious and the thought of having him around as a “Independent Democrat”, with a plum committee chairmanship, routinely second guessing President Obama for FNC/Glen Beck audience irritates me. Hey, they can give that chairmanship to a woman (Hillary) for change.

  19. #19 dale
    November 13, 2008

    Chess — Bah

    Go is the game

    As the saying goes

    Go is to chess
    as poetry is to double entry bookkeeping

  20. #20 Ramesh
    November 13, 2008

    I don’t know Go, but I really like Shogi. I like the idea of captured pieces being reintroduced into the game. While draws are possible in theory, games seldom end that way. IM Larry Kaufman says – I am paraphrasing here – Shogi improved his Chess by getting him out of the draw rut.

  21. #21 Bob O'H
    November 14, 2008

    Sorry, this seems off-topic now, but Andrew Gelman has pointed to an analysis of the Minnesota senate race. The short version is that they think Franken will win.

  22. #22 Leni
    November 14, 2008

    Oh my. Those jokes are simply shocking. We should all probably just be thankful that Norm MacDonald isn’t running for anything.

  23. #23 Jason Rosenhouse
    November 14, 2008

    I went through a Go phase in graduate school, and was even briefly a member of the American Go Association. It’s a great game, but having already invested so much time in learning chess I found it difficult to work up the enthusiasm for learning another time sink.

  24. #24 Aflac
    November 14, 2008

    Hey Leni, Franken called. He wants to borrow your mofo joke collection.

  25. #25 Valhar2000
    November 14, 2008

    Heddle wrote:
    Franken is the cat’s meow. The senate, seeking diversity, surely needs someone who is into rape humor.

    Yeah, after, George Carlin alreayd proved that you can joke about anything, including rape.

    By the way, since the subject of Sarah Palin came up, perhaps you would like to write a little something about the separation of church and state, of which you are a most stalwart defender, and its compatibility with Sarah Palin.

    I am sure that something like that, coming from you, would be trully epic in scope.

  26. #26 Matt Heath
    November 14, 2008

    Doesn’t Senator McCain have the rape joke thing covered anyway? In his case jokes told in front of an audience about a woman enjoying being brutally raped by a gorilla.

  27. #27 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    Vlahar2000,

    Sure,

    1) Separation of Church is good and righteous and was invented by us (Baptists.)
    2) Sarah Palin is not a dominionist. If you think she is, then you don’t know what a dominionist is. Knowing quite a few in person and having studied theonomy, I can educate you if you like. She is a Christian, like Barack Obama, although her church does not appear to be as nutty (though yes, it is a a bit nutty) and definitely not as hateful as the one he attended for 20 years.

    Is that epic enough?

  28. #28 SLC
    November 14, 2008

    After picking on UVA and Prof. Heddles’ school, I would like to point out that most of the right wing nutcases occupying professorial slots at Virginia State University campuses reside at Northern Virginias’ embarrassment, George Mason Un.

  29. #29 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    SLC,

    Yes we really must purge all campuses of faculty who do not worship The One.

  30. #30 Matt Penfold
    November 14, 2008

    Why does the US have such problems with elections ?

    Here in the UK we have a paper and pencil ballot, and even in the closest races the result is normally known within 24 hours, 48 at the outside if it is very close and the presiding officer sends the tellers home for some rest.

  31. #31 Mike Haubrich, FCD
    November 14, 2008

    Dave, I would consider having a special event to use a man who brags about chasing a “witch” out of town, then speaks in tongues to bless Sara, a bit “nutty.”

  32. #32 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    Mike,

    I would too. I would also consider it nutty to believe that the US Government developed HIV as a biological weapon for use against undesirables.

  33. #33 David Marjanovi?
    November 14, 2008

    Do they still use the same voting machines in Georgia as they did there in 2002? Because in that case I can practically guarantee Chambliss will win.

  34. #34 SLC
    November 14, 2008

    Re Heddle

    1. We should also not forget that Governor Palins’ church also invited a speaker from the Jews for Jesus movement who proceeded to inform the congregation, which included the governor, that the Holocaust was gods’ punishment for not accepting Joshua of Nazareth. Just as hateful as anything that Reverend Wright ever said. One can only wonder what other whackjobs the minister of that church invited to give guest sermons.

    2. Yes we really must purge all campuses of faculty who do not worship The One.

    I would appreciate it if Prof. Heddle would point out where I advocated any such thing. I’m not even in favor of canning Prof. Heddle, provided that he keeps his hands off of Governor Palin.

  35. #35 Matt Penfold
    November 14, 2008

    Heddle clearly had his head up his arse when Obama repudiated the views of Jerimiah Wright. Otherwise, as an honest person, he would not compare Obama with Palin as the latter has not repudiated the views of the leaders of the church she attends.

    Of course I suppose it is possible Heddle has been lying.

  36. #36 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    Matt Penfold,

    Heddle clearly had his head up his arse when Obama repudiated the views of Jerimiah Wright.

    Color me unimpressed. Twenty years. His self-described “spiritual adviser.” Does the term “political expediency” have any meaning to you?

  37. #37 llewelly
    November 14, 2008

    Wrt to the Minnesota race – there’s no good reason to believe either the original counting procedure or the recount procedure can reliably distinguish differences as small as 200 ballots (or even the 700 ballot difference cited some days ago). Thus – if the 34,000 discarded ballots are ignored – or, for that matter, evenly split – Franken has a 50% chance of winning a recount, simply due to the probability the counting errors will go the other way. Perhaps that’s not a ‘fair’ way to win, but that’s where our election procedures are.

  38. #38 BaldApe
    November 14, 2008

    heddle:

    Is it really nuttier to believe that black people in America have been denied their fair share of prosperity, or to believe that “Lalalalalala Bobbitty Bibble OOfa Loofa” is the language of angels?

  39. #39 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    BaldApe?

    Is it really nuttier to believe that black people in America have been denied their fair share of prosperity,

    Are you on ‘ludes? I never implied any such thing. I don’t have a problem with “GD-ing America” either. But I would say that HIV and 9/11 conspiracies are exceedingly nutty.

  40. #40 SLC
    November 14, 2008

    One of the problems concerning the case of Reverend Wright is that we only have some 4 or 5 sermons of his in which he pronounced nutty things. For all we know the other several hundred sermons he gave during his tenure as minister were models of decorum. Now Senator Obama has denied that he was in church at the times when the controversial sermons were given and thus never knew about them. If, in fact, the good reverend delivered several hundred sermons over the 20 years of Senator Obamas membership in his church and only the 4 or 5 we have heard about were of the controversial type, it is not inconceivable that he, indeed missed them. After all, it is doubtful that the Senator never missed a Sunday service at the church over the 20 year period.

  41. #41 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    SLC,

    Yeah, he manages to effectively vote “present” quite a bit.

    By the way, if I miss a sermon and especially if it turns out to be a juicy one, others in the church will be eager to fill me in: Whoa, dude, you missed a good one last week… Maybe in addition to Obama’s schedule being cosmically fine-tuned so that he missed all the JW lunatic tin-foil-hat rants, he also had no friends in the church who told him what transpired? Nobody told him how the Reverend slipped off his meds again?

  42. #42 tomh
    November 14, 2008

    Mike Haubrich, FCD wrote:
    Dave, I would consider having a special event to use a man who brags about chasing a “witch” out of town, then speaks in tongues to bless Sara, a bit “nutty.”

    Heddle can’t address anything like this, since he views politics through the prism of his right wing, god worshipping delusions. If he had any integrity he would acknowledge that Obama advocates keeping religion and government strictly separate while Palin would mix her god and government beyond all reason. Just about everything he posts on the subject makes this abundantly clear.

  43. #43 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    tomh,

    No, what’s clear is you have a naive view of separation of church and state, something along the lines of: “no overt evangelicals in office.” But separation of church and state only means that the state doesn’t endorse or establish a religion. It doesn’t mean that evangelicals cannot try to pass laws based on their beliefs. That is, if they want to they can vote or veto a gay marriage amendment because they are personally opposed. That’s just democracy–you don’t have to check your beliefs at the door, and while that is “imposing your beliefs” it’s no more “imposing your beliefs” that someone who feels passionately say, that nuclear power is bad and so they vote against nuclear power in an attempt to impose their beliefs on the rest of the citizenry.

    So you fail to convince that Palin would mix her God and government beyond all reason, whatever that means. Does she advocate a theocracy? No. Does she advocate a state religion? No. Does she advocate oppression of other religions or punishment for being atheist? No. So get a grip. You are really just expressing garden-variety bigotry.

  44. #44 tomh
    November 14, 2008

    heddle wrote: So you fail to convince that Palin would mix her God and government

    A conviction that creationism should be taught in schools would appear to mix government and religion. A statement like, “Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God”, or telling people to pray for a gas pipeline in Alaska because it is “God’s will”, or a myriad of other similar statements would convince a reasonable person that she believes that God (her version) should be involved in government. The fact that she thinks God told her to run for governor and that she is carrying out His will by her actions would give most people pause. Of course, a right wing zealot, who no doubt agrees with many of these positions, would be happy to gloss over the obvious.

    And, you still haven’t addressed the witch question. I guess we can assume you approve of driving witches out of town.

  45. #45 Gerald
    November 14, 2008

    Heddle clearly approved of Palin saying all this. After all, he wrote on his blog he only became enthousiastic for the Republican ticket when Palin was nominated. That is, Heddle seems to have no political position but only a religious position. Separation of church and state involves political thinking as a category separate from religion, apart from the state not dictating religious observance.
    Is Heddle a Baptist? I thought he is a Calvinist, of the Presbyterian or Puritan type.

  46. #46 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    tomh,

    I don’t approve of the practice of driving witches out of town.

    And there are many things regarding Palin about which I disagree. I am not zealous about her the way many Obama supporters are zealous about “The One.”

    1) In which public schools in Alaska is creationism taught? In which schools has she directed creationism to be taught?

    2) You are quote mining a la Charlie Gibson. The full Palin quote is:

    “Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

    That is something that Obama, as Christian could not disagree with. Any Christian should pray for our leaders and that they are aligned with the will of God. Don’t you think Obama would too? Or do you, like some on the left, think (or at least hope) that his Christianity was just a wink-wink, nod-nod political tactic?

    Similarly for the pipeline. It is quite natural for Christians to pray that God’s will be done. You do think Obama, since he’s a Christian, will also pray about important policy decisions, don’t you?

    Praying for God’s guidance is not “God involved in the government.” Do you think all Christian presidents have violated the principle of separation of church and state? Does separation of church and state suddenly include: the President shall not pray to his god for guidance and comfort.

    The fact that she thinks God told her to run for governor and that she is carrying out His will by her actions would give most people pause

    Then how did she win? When didn’t it give most of the people in Alaska pause? And by most of the people in the US, the most you can mean is 53% (or whatever it was) and that’s assuming that every who voted for Obama was “given pause” by Palin’s religious views.

    I don’t think you actually speak for “most” people.

  47. #47 gerald
    November 14, 2008

    “that plan is God’s plan.”
    It is always God’s plan of course, if only to teach us humility because of hubris.

  48. #48 SLC
    November 14, 2008

    Re Heddle

    Senator Obama says he wasn’t present in the church and wasn’t aware of Reverend Wrights’ objectionable sermons. I suggest that Prof. Heddle provide proof that he’s lying or STFU. By the way, I notice that the good professor studiously avoids responding to Governor Palins’ minister inviting the Jews for Jesus asshole to proclaim that the Holocaust was gods’ punishment for not accepting Joshua of Nazareth. I can only conclude that Prof. Heddle agrees with the sentiment.

  49. #49 tomh
    November 14, 2008

    heddle wrote:
    In which public schools in Alaska is creationism taught? In which schools has she directed creationism to be taught?

    That must sound silly even to you. I said she had a conviction that creationism should be taught in school, alongside evolution, as she has said. Just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t change anything. If she were in a position to, she would appoint judges that agree with that religious point of view, push for legislation, do whatever she could to make it happen. If you can’t realize that this brings religion into government, well, I give up. In fact, I give up anyway. You’re amusing for a while, but in the end, like all true believers, you’re just plain boring.

    The one saving grace, with regard to your heroine, is that by the next election she will just be an irrelevant, humorous footnote to political history. Or, if the truly foolish are in control of the Republican party, perhaps they’ll make her their candidate – then the whole party will be even more irrelevant than they are now.

  50. #50 heddle
    November 14, 2008

    tomh,

    Just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t change anything. If she were in a position to, she would appoint judges that agree with that religious point of view, push for legislation, do whatever she could to make it happen.

    Ah, I see, so it’s not what she’s done–you have no actual evidence for your charge, it’s what you know she’ll do if she has the chance.

    Tell me, is omniscience a blessing or a curse?

  51. #51 Leni
    November 15, 2008

    Heddle wrote:

    I am not zealous about her the way many Obama supporters are zealous about “The One.”

    Well, I seem to remember you saying that evangelicals, including yourself, “just love her”, and that it was not particularly rational.

    As for her interpretation separation of church and state, let’s not forget about her whole “if the Pledge of Allegiance was good enough for the founding fathers it was good enough for me” quip.

    Really, do we even really need a Supreme Court? We have Palin, after all. If it was good enough for her and her imagined founding fathers, I can’t imagine why we might need anything more.

  52. #52 heleen
    November 15, 2008

    Heddle:
    1) Separation of Church is good and righteous and was invented by us (Baptists.)
    The Baptists were a minority, of course.
    Actually, (1) Martin Luther seems to have advocated separation of church and state more than 100 year before the first English speaking Baptist; and (2) the Union of Utrecht (foundation of the Dutch Republic) of 1579 had as official state policy that “everyone will be free in his religion and one shall not research or prosecute anyone because of his religion”. No Baptists there.

  53. #53 Mike
    November 15, 2008

    Heddle,
    Palin is a loon. It’s not just one thing that earns her this classification. The AIP, Witch hunting pastor, “I can see Russia”, doesn’t read (very scary), wants to remove ‘objectionable’ books from the library, creationism, dinosaurs & man co-existed, abuse of power (all too common), embarrassed herself with Kouric (and others) by being that clueless, the list is endless and we’ve only watched her for a COUPLE OF MONTHS.

    Her religious stuff is even scarier. I don’t KNOW what she’d have done given the chance but her repeated references to god’s will and that fatalistic attitude should never be allowed to live in someone with real power. Leaves way to little room for judgment and common sense. Praise her all you want but I’ll be glad when the loon is safely back in Alaska.

  54. #54 Davis
    November 15, 2008

    I am not zealous about her the way many Obama supporters are zealous about “The One.”

    Where the heck are these supposed legions of zealous Obama supporters? I live in one of the liberal bastions of the northwest, and the only people I’ve met who meet this description are high school students and a handful of my university students.

  55. #55 Aflac
    November 15, 2008

    Palin is one of those rare people whose gut reaction is more accurate than her rational “justification” of that reaction – because at bottom we all go with the gut as final arbiter.
    And so far she has arrived at the top level of politics using that gut.

    She is also devious in a proper fashion. If you want to help run a country, or help a man who can best run a country, you need to lie a bit for the common good. Hell, she knows Obama is not sympathetic to terror. And she knew that McCain, a true dropper of bombs, was only a terrorist to those on the down-slope of their trajectories.

    McCain gave her a role to play and she played it. Like the Master Thespian said on SNL, it’s ACTING.

  56. #56 Mike
    November 15, 2008

    Aflac,
    Her gut reactions may be accurate to your way of thinking or John McCain’s or the right wing nutjobs attending her rallies but they were not in any way an accurate representation of the majority in this country or the world. Granted, she lies with the best (worst?) of them. A dubious trait but one she’s mastered. She roused a portion of the base that had been too embarrassed to express their ignorant, bigoted, hateful ideas (except at klan rallies maybe) until she made it fashionable with her folksy, religious pandering.
    Sadly she wasn’t acting. That was her true shallow self on display. Her success so far is due more to her blind ambition and attracting some scary Alaskan goons to scare up support or scare away opposition. She needs to go back to Wasilla and fade out of political life. The sooner the press stops drooling at her heels, the better for the country and the world.

  57. #57 Aflac
    November 15, 2008

    Hey, Mike, all politicians are actors. They are so good at it that we call some liars and some truth-tellers. But those are in actuality our opinions of their performances. Sure, some of them are playing themselves to a degree, but none are playing themselves in toto.

    Palin is now all smiles about Obama’s prospects. I think you’ll agree that’s acting, but can you be completely sure?

    By the way, I’m also acting.

  58. #58 BaldApe
    November 15, 2008

    Heddle said:

    But I would say that HIV and 9/11 conspiracies are exceedingly nutty.

    Yup, but still not as nutty as speaking in tongues.

  59. #59 Mike
    November 15, 2008

    Aflac,
    Definitions you may like: Acting is lying for entertainment. Politics is lying for profit and/or power. Palin, the act, has entertained many and disgusted many. Had she attained power, the lies would bury us.

  60. #60 Aflac
    November 15, 2008

    Mike: Acting is lying, but acceptable if it’s for entertainment. We also accept it in politics since we don’t (with some exceptions) hold politicians legally accountable for the lies that allowed them to then do what they had promised they wouldn’t do. All of the above have an element of power and profit, but the breaking of promises has the potential for doing us serious harm as well.

    Palin’s lies would doubtless have had a part in burying us. But there would have been no punishment for those lies, so no deterrent either. Nobody, for example, will punish Bush or Cheney for lies before the elections, during the elections, or after. They have served eight years without a scratch in that respect. For all practical purposes they are home free.

    Palin was a disaster waiting to happen, but you couldn’t prove it to her by previous example.

  61. #61 slagbom
    November 20, 2008

    oh these comments are glorious to read.

    i voted for franken, and i hope my vote is counted properly. i only hope that is true for EVERY single other of the 3 million some votes cast in this contentious race.

  62. #62 MartinM
    November 21, 2008

    But separation of church and state only means that the state doesn’t endorse or establish a religion. It doesn’t mean that evangelicals cannot try to pass laws based on their beliefs.

    Apparently SCOTUS disagrees. See the Endorsement test, and the purpose prong of the Lemon test.

  63. #63 Robert O'Brien
    November 24, 2008

    Palin is a loon. It’s not just one thing that earns her this classification. The AIP, Witch hunting pastor, “I can see Russia”, doesn’t read (very scary), wants to remove ‘objectionable’ books from the library, creationism, dinosaurs & man co-existed, abuse of power (all too common), embarrassed herself with Kouric (and others) by being that clueless, the list is endless and we’ve only watched her for a COUPLE OF MONTHS.

    How many of those can you provide citations for from reputable sources? Perhaps you are one of the rubes who thinks Sarah Palin tried to ban Harry Potter before it was published.

  64. #64 Robert O'Brien
    November 24, 2008

    Anticipating this possibility, the Republicans and their media lackeys are already doing everything they can to challenge the integrity of Minnesota’s Democratic Secretary of State. Of course, he will be instantly transformed into a model of probity and honesty if Coleman emerges victorious. The Republicans want to be sure that if Franken wins his victory is called into as much question as possible. They do this because, in addition to their other failings, Republicans have no class.

    Your political rants are ridiculous, Jason. Franken has his goons looking over the shoulders of the people recounting the ballots just as surely as Coleman has his people keeping watch. And Franken’s camp has challenged just as many ballots as Coleman’s.

    Now McCain is actively campaigning for the man who used those ads.

    Chambliss pulled the ads. Of course, his campaign should not have aired them, but that was several years ago and it is time to move on.

    PS Gore lost Florida.

  65. #65 Robert O'Brien
    November 24, 2008

    Apparently SCOTUS disagrees. See the Endorsement test, and the purpose prong of the Lemon test.

    Who cares? Americans are bound by the actual text of the Constitution, not the “Lemon test.”

  66. #66 ali furkan
    January 28, 2009

    Thanks a lot

    İndir