Bloomberg Stands Firm Against the Theocrats

New York mayor Michael Bloomberg decided not to include any religious clerics among the speakers at the 9/11 memorial service this weekend. Unsurprisingly, this caused some controversy:

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has come under attack by some religious and political leaders for not including clergy members as speakers at Sunday’s official ceremony at ground zero on the 10th anniversary of the attacks.

Richard D. Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, which is the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, said in an interview that the planned ceremony only proved that New York was the “epicenter of secularism,” out of step with the rest of America.

“We’re not France,” he said. “Mr. Bloomberg is pretending we’re a secular society, and we are not.”

Congressman Randy Forbes, a Republican representative from Virginia and a co-chairman of the Congressional Prayer Caucus, sent Mr. Bloomberg a letter on behalf of the caucus members urging him to include prayer in the ceremony.

At the same time, some evangelical Christian leaders said they were outraged that an interfaith prayer service planned by the Washington National Cathedral did not include a Southern Baptist or other evangelical minister.

Happily, Bloomberg stood firm. Good for him!

Alas, the increasingly cartoonish blog of the Chronicle for Higher Education has two posts on this subject. The first comes from Naomi Schaefer Riley, who gave her post the snide title “Mayor Bloomberg’s Memorial to Secularism.” That’s obscene, of course. It was a memorial to the victims of 9/11, not to secularism, and excluding clergy from the speakers list simply acknowledges that it’s a civil and not a religious ceremony. Clergy have no special contribution to make to such an occasion.

Riley’s post does not seem to have any particular point other than to be snide. She writes:

The Mayor of New York decided not to include religious leaders in the ceremony at the September 11 memorial today. He told critics of the decision that he was trying not to force religion on other people. On his weekly radio show, he told New Yorkers:

It’s a civil ceremony. There are plenty of opportunities for people to have their religious ceremonies. … Some people don’t want to go to a religious ceremony with another religion. And the number of different religions in this city are really quite amazing.

Glad to know he thinks they’re amazing. Was that a compliment? Or is he personally amazed that people believe this stuff? And what does it have to do with whether they’re included. At one point, his aides told the press that he didn’t want to be in the position of having to pick which religious leaders would get to speak. On the radio show, he said, “It isn’t that you can’t pick and choose, you shouldn’t pick and choose. If you want to have a service for your religion, you can have it in your church or in a field, or whatever.”

See what I mean? Of course, Bloomberg was simply making an offhand remark about the impressive diversity of religions in New York City. As he stated clearly, it was the number of religions that was amazing; he said nothing at all about the beliefs themselves. But presenting his remarks accurately would have made it harder for Shafer to be snide and superior. To answer Riley’s questions: Noting the large number of religions represented in New York is neither a compliment nor a slight to any particular religion. Whether or not it is amazing that people believe “this stuff” has no relation to anything Bloomberg said. And it has to do with whether they’re included because singling out certain religions for inclusion in the ceremony would be a slight to all the others who were not, and would add an element of exclusion to a ceremony in which everyone should be able to participate. Riley has to pretend that’s not perfectly obvious.

But Riley isn’t finished:

It’s pretty hard to have a memorial service without mentioning God. But Bloomberg was able to worship the way he wanted–the liberal boomer way. He found room at the ceremony for performances by James Taylor and Paul Simon.

Actually, a lot of us find it preferable to leave God out of our memorial services. That aside, the idea that not wanting to give preference to one religion over another in a civil ceremony makes you a “liberal boomer” deserving of mockery is sadly emblematic of the right-wing mindset.

Jacques Berlinerblau has a better post on this subject. Some of the post is pretty good. For example:

Bloomberg stared down the Christian Right and clearly took this round. Still, the truth is that secularism (defined in terms of classic mid-century conceptions of walling off Church from State) is mired in an abysmal losing streak.

It’s a rut that encompasses everything from the expansion of George W. Bush’s Office of Faith-Based Initiatives by Barack Obama, to devastating set backs in the United States Supreme Court’s interpretation of the religion clauses, to a spreading, decade-long plague of religious pandering in the rhetoric of politicians.

I have been writing about secular issues for nearly 10 years and, save perhaps the Dover “Intelligent Design” case of 2005, I can think of few other positive developments of this magnitude.

Indeed. Go to the original post for relevant links.

Sadly, Berlinerblau, like his fellow Chronicle blogger Michael Ruse, is simply unable to write about religion without finding an excuse to bash the New Atheists. He mostly spoils the post by including this astonishing piece of stupidity:

Not being an angry atheist = results: Mayor Bloomberg’s personal faith convictions are an endless matter of speculation. Yet it is essential to recall that he is not generally perceived as being hostile to religion, In truth, he has cultivated cordial and often friendly relations with many religious groups in New York.

In the atheist community, a heated and often bitter debate rages about etiquette towards believers. Had Mayor Bloomberg been the type of fellow to go all Village Atheist on the faithful, the response on Sunday would have been very different. As a member of the American Humanist Association put it “An atheist goes around with a big sign on his forehead saying ‘Your religion stinks.’ That makes it very hard to accomplish anything.” Amen.

Was anyone recommending that Bloomberg go all “Village Atheist” on the faithful? Has any New Atheist suggested that politicians be deliberately offensive to their religious constituents? What got results here is the fact that New York has a sensible mayor who is in an exceptionally strong position (not running again, independently wealthy, represents a city known for political liberalism) to stand up for this particular principle. Was Bloomberg’s defense of his sensible and courageous position made more difficult because Richard Dawkins wrote a book strongly critical of religion? Of course not. And, as we have recently seen, anti-religion polemics also get results. Which is why so many of us argue that a variety of approaches is necessary. There is a place for politicking and bridge-building, but there is also a place for calling out religious foolishness.

But that’s just too subtle for Berlinerblau.

Comments

#1 eric
September 12, 2011

[Naomi Riley] It’s pretty hard to have a memorial service without mentioning God.

Why, is God the one who is dead?

Its the dead that are being memorialized. Its they that should be the focus of the service. If you are putting the focus on God, you are doing exactly what Bloomberg was trying to prevent – merely using the 9/11 deaths as an excuse to push your religion on other people.
#2 Oily Loincloth Bearer
September 12, 2011

I do not understand Bloomberg. How can a jewish man be socialist? Has he never heard of the nationalist Socialist Labor Party? How is it that this man is as far left socialist as any soviet cold war era communist?

The guy is purely anti-American in almost every facet of his beleif system. He sure as hell oes not abide by the literal writings of the declaration of independence and the constitution. if he did, he would give up his gun hater attitude and trade it in for some patriotism at least one day out of the year.

Yes, we are well aware of the war on christianity. We see it all the time. Public prayer, school prayer, ten commandments, easter christmas. All of banned by bald headed jerks in black robes claiming themsleves as God. Last timeI checked, they were ordained by God, not all powerful supreme beings.

In my opinion I wish the founding fathers would have put four year term limits on supreme court judges and made it mandatory to refer to the contitution and the beleif system upon which it was written when making decisions instead of looking at world court cases and laws.

Maybe we should have had some darwinian evangelist up there telling how over time tow twin towers will rebuilding themsleves through evolution. In another 80 millions years buildings will build themselves back. Oh, and over time Muslims will evolve into scientists who will rule the world through deceptions like the global warming/wealth redistribution hoax.

I agree. We should only let far left commies speak at events. Never let normal people in. Just the other day I saw a darwinian evangelist preaching his “science” in his cute little pulpit. It was cute, but in sickening sort of way. Kind of makes me want to throw a terd at them.

There are a number of various religions but three have emerged in the last 100 years have completey taken over the world – Darwinian Evangelism, Global warming evangelism, and Communist/socialist/marxist evangelism. The truth is that to the untrained eye, it is hard to tell the difference between the three. Maybe the ACLU will sue them next for being destroyers of freedom. Nevermind. the ACLU is in that smae boat as we. The Asshole Communist Legacy Union. Little did we know that satan has a lawyers union working for him these days. I guess they will represent just about anything but the truth.
#3 Thanny
September 12, 2011

Shortly after the attacks, I went with others in my family (a cousin of mine was in the south tower when it collapsed) to the memorial ceremony in Liberty State Park in NJ. There were tens of thousands of people there.

There were three clerics – Christian, Jewish, and Muslim. They all gave horribly boring speeches (the least obtuse was the Rabbi), to which the crowd reacted not one bit.

Then Christopher and Dana Reeve each gave speeches (more so the latter, for obvious reasons), which were entirely secular in content, and of high quality. The crowd applauded both loudly. I think the only person who got a better reaction that night was Ray Charles.

My point? It’s absolutely correct to say that people prefer secular ceremonies, at least outside the Bible Belt.
#4 Bible Thumper
September 12, 2011

I will say this even though I may get scourged for it.

Does anyone ever realize that perhaps 9/11 was more than just an attack? You know, in the Old Testament whenever God’s people got out of line He would give them multiple opportunities to turn back to Him. When they refused and continued their pagan/secular ways as America has become, He often allowed their enemies to utterlies destroy them to the point of total humiliation and drive them back to Him. Perhaps this attack was allowed by God to warn us of our sinful ways and as a warning to turn back to Him.

I cannot prove this as a fact, but God does use the enemies of His people to judge them sometimes. I still beleive it to be relevant today. Just like the Old Testament times, there will be those so set in their evil pagan ways, that they will not even listen to the warnings and pleas of God.
#5 jt512
September 12, 2011

Was Bloomberg’s decision based on secular principles or pragmatics? After all, banning clerics of all religions would have been a convenient tactic for sidestepping the sensitive subject of including Muslim clerics.
#6 Vince Whirlwind
September 12, 2011

Bible Thumper, I promise you that 9/11 was not a message from god. I can promise this, because I don’t suffer from the delusion that there is such a thing as god. It’s all in your imagination.

To think that grown adults believe “this stuff” is…amazing. Disappointing. Pathetic.
#7 Bible Thumper
September 12, 2011

@ vince in a whirlwind

You do not believe it right now. You will one day when it is too late.

I feel the same way about your evolution stuff as you do about God. I simply do not believe in evolution.
#8 Kel
September 12, 2011

Are posts #2 and #4 poes?
#9 Kel
September 12, 2011

@Bible Thumper,
Irrespective of how you feel on evolution, the scientific case for evolution is overwhelming. From the fossil record, to the genetic code, morphology, and the geographic distribution of life, all evidence fits the pattern of descent with modification and that all life is related.

The question to you is, what do you find problematic with the scientific case? And in regards to God, what reason is there to think that God exists?
#10 eric
September 13, 2011

Kel: Are posts #2 and #4 poes?

Well, #2 is a godwin. Took him three sentences to go from jewish to socialist to nazi.

Bible thumper: When they refused and continued their pagan/secular ways as America has become, He often allowed their enemies to utterlies destroy them to the point of total humiliation and drive them back to Him.

We haven’t had a significant attack since. So if you believe God was sending a message, you ought to also believe he’s been pleased with the last 10 years, because he hasn’t followed up his warning with anything else.

And not to downplay the horribleness of 9/11, but 3700 deaths out of 300 million is not “utterly destroy to the point of total humiliation.” 3700 deaths is about how many Americans die in auto accidents in a month.
#11 Vince Whirlwind
September 13, 2011

Bible Thumper, I guarantee you that you do not in any way feel about evolution as I do about god.

Evolution is a fact. (Even the Pope, the leader of the world’s largest god-botherer organisation agrees with me.)

God is not a fact.

I believe in facts. You do not.

I do not believe in non-facts. You do.

We “feel” completely differently about the world.

The funny thing about your “God”, is this: billions of people all around the world believe in hundreds of different versions og “God”. All but one of them are therefore guaranteed to be wrong. That leaves just one of these beliefs which is not 100% sure to be wrong. And yet, we can’t tell which of the hundreds of different versions of “God” it is that is special, because *all* of these different versions of “God” are supported by exactly the same level of fact, evidence and reality: None.
#12 Brian
September 13, 2011

As an Australian, let me try and give an outsider’s opinion. I preface this by saying I am not against America per se. You have one of the most fertile continents all to yorself (almost) and a firm history of democracy (actually a participatory oligarchy but that’s what we call “democracy” both here and in the US) and modernist thought. Americans had the foresight to create national parks and continent spanning railroads. You COULD have gone a totalitarian route or just remained a nondescript part of the British Empire (later Commonwealth, now largely forgotten as Britain embraces Europe but I digress)but you did not.
Therefore take it in the spirit of those words above when I say that if the US was a single person I would advise it to stop masturbating as often as it does.
I’m a Christian, I’ve come here after a long search for a world view that works for me after looking very widely. I still love reading mythological epics from all over and yes, I view large parts of the Bible to be a mythological epic in a Jungian sense (teaching fables). Just as the word “theory” does not mean the same thing in scientific parlance as it does in lay speech so also I use “mythology” in a different way to a lay person and the way I use it in no way is meant to demean it. These “learning fables” are ways that groups of people can viscerally experience things they have not felt in their own lives and have positive and negative examples of how to deal with it within the cultural milleu vis: launching 1000 ships after your missing wife is not appropriate in modern times lol.
Being a believer on any path does not mean you have to be bat s**t crazy except, it seems in America (It has spread due to cultural imperialism of the media however).
Paul the Apostle (not my fave but…) said weigh everything in your heart and reject what your heart tell you to be false (paraphrased because I don’t read ancient greek) and Jesus himself said render unto the lord what is his and render unto Caesar what is his. I say if he had lived now he would have said render unto Darwin what is his. The clear mythology (learning fable) of the begining of Genesis is only very tangentially relevant to the gospels and the message of Christ (which incidentally is about living in love and DEMONSTRATING the forgiveness of God and specifically NOT bullying your neighbour). By being too rigid you risk not being all things to all men as Jesus commanded.
Anyway, I want to reiterate that what I said was in a spirit of tough love.
#13 Kel
September 13, 2011

Brian, Australia has its share of crazy when it comes to religion – it’s just not as prominent in the public sphere here.
#14 Lenoxus
September 13, 2011

“Bible thumper” illustrates yet another good reason to not have clerics speak at a civil 9/11 memorial — they have this odd tendency to ascribe the mass murder to God’s vindictiveness and authoritrian need to be feared. Well, what else are they going to say? The only other options are “God is mysterious” and “God couldn’t have prevented this”, neither very appetizing (although the last one should really be the most comforting).
#15 James Sweet
September 13, 2011

Excuse me for just a second here…

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?!?!?!? FUUUUUUCCCCKKKK!!!!!

Gotta stick your God dick in every ear you can find. Just shut the fuck up already. FUCK.

Sorry. I just, you know, the comment from Bible Thumper and others… the resistance to this very sensible and inclusive and tolerant act from Bloomberg.. Every time I think, “Hey, maybe atheists shouldn’t be so angry… maybe we should be more circumspect,” you fuckheads remind me that, oh yeah, there’s damn good reason to be angry, because you all won’t EVER shut the fuck up. God damn you and your fucking need to shit over everyone with your stupid delusion diarrhea. FUCK!

Okay, rant over. Listen, there are reasons atheists are legitimately angry, and if you religious folk can’t see why, then you are fucking stupider than I ever imagined.
#16 James Sweet
September 13, 2011

I’m also in rare form right now because I didn’t realize until yesterday afternoon that there are a non-trivial number of religious fuckwads who believe that those who jumped from the towers on 9/11 are going to hell for committing suicide. The mind boggles that anybody could have a fantasy so ugly. I do not understand the minds of those who would choose to believe something like that, nor do I want to. Frankly, I have more empathy for violent criminals — while their actions are repulsive and possibly more damaging, I can at least understand in some cases what motivates them. What would motivate someone to delude themselves into such a sickening belief as to want the jumpers to burn in hell FOREVER because in a moment of hopelessness and desperation they only wanted to escape the flames… I just cannot imagine it. And I simply won’t try. I don’t want to know what moves that kind of mind. You can take that kind of God and shove it up your ass.
#17 Budbear
September 13, 2011

@ James : I think I like you.
#18 Lynxreign
September 13, 2011

@2 Oily

Wow, you’re a nut! In just one email you’ve shown you don’t understand Socialism, Communism, the ACLU, the reason for lifetime appointment of judges, the way the constitution works, that Bloomberg is right, not left wing, evolution, that there is no war on christianity, and the list goes on.

I find it hilarious that in one poorly written sentence you state that you think judges should have to refer to the beliefs the founding fathers had, but you want to ignore these same beliefs when it comes to the way the courts work.

This sentence is also hilarious
“Last timeI checked, they were ordained by God, not all powerful supreme beings.”

First, you checked wrong. They’re not ordained by anyone, they’re appointed or elected by fellow human beings.

Second, you’ve just stated that God isn’t an “all powerful supreme being”. You may want to have someone proofread your post next time, though I doubt you’ll find anyone who will catch these mistakes that won’t be rendered helpless with laughter.

If you’re sincere, I pity your ignorance and indoctrination.
If you’re a poe, I marvel at your level of boredom and suggest you get a better hobby.
#19 Harbo
September 13, 2011

If your god is sending a message, why is it always so cryptic?
Surely it can just have a day where it appears to us all individually and explains its plan and our part / duty, and then has little weekly individual assessments to keep us on target.
#20 Owlmirror
September 13, 2011

Kind of makes me want to throw a terd at them.

So… Your response to hearing that your ancestors, millions of years ago, were indistinguishable from monkeys, is to act like you yourself are a monkey here and now?

I guess you are living, screeching, turd-throwing, proof that evolution is false.
#21 Skeptico
September 13, 2011

It’s pretty hard to have a memorial service without mentioning God.

Except apparently it wasn’t.
#22 Vicki
September 13, 2011

What the Baptist leader is forgetting, or choosing to ignore, is that the attacks were largely against New York. Bloomberg was commemorating New Yorkers, and people from nearby who worked here, and tourists who chose to visit New York.

We’re not going to shut up and be used as symbols by people who clearly don’t like us any better than Osama bin Laden did, and I resent people who claim that we should.
#23 TTT
September 13, 2011

@22: Thank you for pointing that out. It seems to me that the people who make the most showy and glitzy displays over “September the 11th” also define their political and cultural identities through a hatred of cities and city-dwellers, particularly New York and New Yorkers. As far as I’m concerned, anybody who complains about “liberal urban elites” or “decadent coast-dwellers” loved 9/11 and believes we deserved it. All of the enemies of modern civilization sound the same.
#24 Mark Erickson
September 13, 2011

RE: Chronicle of Higher Education

Is it cartoonish just in its forays into religion (specifically, bashing New Atheists)? Or is it getting cartoonish on education, too?

I’d love to have you recommend some good education blogs / news sources / personalities.
#25 kermit
September 13, 2011

So, Bible Thumper… is God punishing the people of Texas by giving them two years of the worst drought they’ve ever seen, and record high temperatures? Some of us godless ones (pretty much the same ones who “believe” in evolution) think the explanations are a result of simple physics and human greed and ignorance. I suppose you think they must be getting chastised for …what? Being too mean to gays? Voting into office ignorant, God-obsessed, life-hating governors?

No, I don’t “believe in evolution” like you believe in your desert god. I know evolution happens because we see it, and I think mainstream evolutionary biology explains it pretty well because the data from many fields support it, and the models make successful predictions. It works. You believe in your god because you hope you will live forever if you do, and it identifies you as a member of the right tribe. See the difference?
#26 sinz54
September 13, 2011

“…to a spreading, decade-long plague of religious pandering in the rhetoric of politicians”

A modern “plague”–as compared with what past period in American history???

The 1950s, when Congress inserted the phrase “under God” into the school Pledge of Allegiance? Or when Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said, “If we are wrong, then God Almighty is wrong”?

Or 1944, when President Franklin Roosevelt broadcast this *prayer* after the D-Day invasion of Normandy had begun:

“And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer:
“Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.
“Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith….
“With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy….
“Thy will be done, Almighty God.
“Amen.”

Religion has been a major force in American public and political life for a very long time. This is hardly new.

Or is it what’s disturbing you that the American right-wing has become more public in religious expression?

If so, that’s only because the left-wing has abandoned religion and left it to the right. Our most famous civil rights protester, Martin Luther King Jr. was a reverend. Philip Berrigan, a famous antiwar protester, was a priest. No more. Today, political leftism has become congruent with secularism.
#27 Dan L.
September 13, 2011

If so, that’s only because the left-wing has abandoned religion and left it to the right. Our most famous civil rights protester, Martin Luther King Jr. was a reverend. Philip Berrigan, a famous antiwar protester, was a priest. No more. Today, political leftism has become congruent with secularism.

So?

Do moral convictions only count when they’re inspired by figments of the imagination?

In fact, those moral convictions count less because they can be so easily faked. See any mainstream Republican candidate. See (probably) Barack Obama.

If your cause can’t get any support unless God is behind it that says a whole lot about your cause. None of it good.
#28 Bible Thumper
September 13, 2011

@ Vince in a whirlwind

I really could care less what the Pope thinks about evolution. If he chooses to subscribe to man’s idea about the universe rather than from God’s truth, then He is an apostate disciple. Only apostates and traitors of the faith can have such views. There are numerous apostate churches these days. Thank goodness the Southern baptist Convention has not gone the way of the catholic church. We still teach and believe that evolution is a product of a mentally delusional slave owner (darwin) that hated God so much he would think of any excuse to rid society of religion.

@James Sweet

My, aren’t we touchy? We refuse to give victory to evil. Sorry, but we will never go away. When this world ends at Meggido, all who will be left will be the followers of Christ. Rant and rave all you want. The God who created this universe still runs it, rules it, and will continue to do so. Might as well get used to. It’s going to be that way for eternity.

The “right wing” has not been more open in religion. It’s just that the left wingers try to suppress and ban religion (except for Islam which they adore) and us “right wingers” fight back.

@ lynxreign

I do understand socialism. It has caused the death of tens of millions of people through population control, starvation, regulation, etc. It is tyrrany and should be outlawed. Karl marx was just as bad as any nazi SS officer that ever existed. Becuase of the intertwined twisted ideals of darwin and marx, we had Adolf Hitler. He was sort of a right winger in a different sense, but was a complete and utter socialist control freak. He would have fit in well with the modern democrat party. His ideals on evolution (survival of the fittest and the perfect race)and his neomarxist bloodbath reign made people scared of socialism. As they should be. Communism and socialism is different, but not by much. Both employ dictatorial tyrants to make sure people follow instructions and not get too self dependent. Both communism and socialism is the enemy of individual freedom and for this reason alone both should be considered a trademark of terrorism.

Anyone who is a socialist is by trade a radical tyrant terrorist. They hate individual freedom and will regulate freedom out of existance. Thye use codewords like “safety” and “common good” as their backdrop to their supreme rule over people.

Enjoy your socialism while it lasts, becuase when Christ comes back it will be destroyed along with those who invented it and use it and true freedom will reign forever.

oh, and spelling/grammar is not important on a website that still believes that we decended from apes. If we are related to apes then the ability to spell is irrelevant becuase we are uncivilized animals. You can’t have it both ways. Are we uncivilized animals that evolved from mud over trillions of centuries or are we man created in the image of God with asould and are accountabel to God for our actions? Which is it?
#29 eric
September 13, 2011

Bible Thumper: Anyone who is a socialist is by trade a radical tyrant terrorist.

Acts of the Apostles 2:44-45: 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

Those terrorist bastards!

Acts 4:32-35: 32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

Oh, those disciples of Jesus were such marxist tyrants!

Acts 5:1-4: 1 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. 3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Oh that Peter, what a socialist. And did you hear what he said? Selling what you own and keeping even a penny of the profit is lying to God. Hey Thumper – how is it that Satan has so filled YOUR heart? When was the last time you sold anything and kept some money from the sale? How often have you lied to God in your life, and why do you fully intend to lie to him again in the future?
#30 NJ
September 13, 2011

Bible Stroker @ 28:

We still teach and believe that evolution is a product of a mentally delusional slave owner (darwin)

Given that Darwin was in fact vehemently opposed to slavery, and argued this with Robert FitzRoy, the Beagle skipper, it would seem your teachings and beliefs are erroneous.

Quel surprise!

Now combine that with the amply documented affection your denomination had for slavery extending well into the mid-to-late 20th century (and arguably into today, if we include the Tea Baggers), and it is clear you really are a modern know-nothing.

You didn’t pick the right room for an argument, son; you have stuck your neck out for abuse.
#31 vicar of art on earth
September 13, 2011

As Revelations tells us you can find the followers of the anti Christ, even when they sound like true believers because, “by their deeds you will know them.”

With the cuts by right wing Jesus, many people with significant disabilities need their bed pans emptied every day. Lots of prayers but no one seems to show up. Republican Jesus lies about churches filling the gap.

Joseph started socialisum in Ancient Egypt, Republican Jesus does not read the Bible. Pork eating, tattoos, and the charging of interest, your Jesus did overturn the money changers are not issues, just a bunch of latent horney old men, sorry they did not get any and so are trying to make sure no one does, except for the child molesters and sadist who pass as religious teachers.

The big problem with Christians and Muslims is they never read their books, they just quote what they want.
#32 Bible Thumper
September 13, 2011

@ eric

The diciples chose of their own free will out of willingness to follow Christ to give belongings and share food and take care of the sick and elderly. If Jesus had been a socialists he would have told the diciples to take up spears and force everyone to give up their income for people who were politically inclined to follow him.

Choosing to do good deeds and sharing wealth out of your own good will is far different than having it stolen from you at gunpoint from government entities that would use it to then harm the very people they stole it from.

Socialism is mentioned in the Bible. It beleive it goes something like “thou shalt not steal”. Free will was involved in the teachings of Jesus. Socialism involves the use of force to make people surrender their belongings in order to give it to others. There is no freedom thereof. It is a satanic idea, not a god given idea. Freedom is god given, socialism is satan derived.
#33 Bible Thumper
September 13, 2011

A perfect example of how socialism works –

Say you are a student in a biology class. Let’s say you take a really hard test. You studied on it for days and you made an A+ on it. Now the student next to you spent his time getting drunk and fornicating with other students and studied very little. He failed. Now under socialism, let us “level the playing field” and take part of your A+ and give it away to the student who failed. Why not? We simply cannot let him fail. Why not bail him out? So, you have to give up 20 points of your grade to give to him.

See how angry you would be if someone stole what you rightfully earned to give to someone else who did not earn it? Socialism is wonderful. Steal from the hard working to give to the bums. Nice.
#34 NJ
September 14, 2011

Bible Stroker @ 33:

A perfect example of how socialism works… [snip]

An excellent demonstration not of how socialism works either in theory or practice, but in how an authoritarian follower can accept mindlessly whatever nonsense its leaders tell it to think.

You whiffed badly on Darwin and slavery, now on political economics, so tell us: Is there anything you can do well? How are you at tying your shoes?
#35 eric
September 14, 2011

Bible Thumper: The diciples chose of their own free will out of willingness to follow Christ to give belongings and share food and take care of the sick and elderly.

No, Aninas didn’t, and Peter told him he was wrong. Peter told him that his individual decision to keep his money was lying to God. As is yours. There is no significant difference between Peter telling Aninas to share out and the state telling you to do so – except that the state is far less draconian than Peter, it only asks for a portion of your money, not all of it. If you think the state is a tyrranical socialist terrorist for making that request, you can only rationally think Peter is worse.

In any event, you do not follow the diciples. You do not willingly give up all your stuff. You lie to God. Want to stop lying to God? Give away your computer and share the money out to the poor.

Now under socialism, let us “level the playing field” and take part of your A+ and give it away to the student who failed.

Socialism is about redistribution of wealth, you dope. You know, things like collecting taxes to fund road repair, giving veterans money for college, or giving veterans health care. Those are socialist policies.
#36 SLC
September 14, 2011

Re Bible Thumper @ #28

I seem to recall that one of the 10 Commandments talks about not bearing false witness, e.g. not lying. Mr. Thumper has violated that Commandment with his preposterous claim that Charles Darwin was a slave holder.

1. For openers, it would have been entirely illegal for Darwin to own slaves as slavery had been outlawed in England before he was born.

2. Darwin was vehemently opposed to slavery and was an enthusiastic supporter of the Union side of the Civil War. In fact, the refusal of the British Government to intervene in the war on the side of the Confederacy was in no small part due to the opposition of Darwin and his family, particularly the opposition of his very influential Wedgewood in-laws.

In addition, Mr. Thumper’s claim that Frankenberger accepted Darwin’s theory of evolution is totally false. In fact, Frankenberger and the Nazi Party specifically rejected the notion of common descent which is at the heart of the theory.

It should be quite obvious that Mr. Thumper is not only a liar but, in his knowledge of science doesn’t know his posterior orifice from an excavation in Tierra Firma.
#37 SC (Salty Current)
September 14, 2011

RE: Chronicle of Higher Education

Is it cartoonish just in its forays into religion (specifically, bashing New Atheists)? Or is it getting cartoonish on education, too?

It’s gone well beyond cartoonish in hosting Peter Wood’s blog. The posts I refer to in my open letter are more than an embarrassment. The Chronicle should never have allowed them to be posted on its site and should drop his blog immediately.
#38 James Sweet
September 14, 2011

It’s just that the left wingers try to suppress and ban religion (except for Islam which they adore)

DUH-HERP! You fucking retard.
#39 eric
September 14, 2011

Brian @12: Being a believer on any path does not mean you have to be bat s**t crazy except, it seems in America (It has spread due to cultural imperialism of the media however).

Two words for ya, Aussie: Ken. Ham.

An example of Australian cultural imperialism infecting the U.S.A. Heh. Now, I admit we yanks have more than our fair share of the nutters. But this is at least partly due to the fact that you other countries like to send your nutters to us.
#40 Dan L.
September 14, 2011

We still teach and believe that evolution is a product of a mentally delusional slave owner (darwin) that hated God so much he would think of any excuse to rid society of religion.

Darwin didn’t own slaves. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Patrick Henry, Andrew Jackson, Jefferson Davis — these were men who owned slaves.

Rant and rave all you want. The God who created this universe still runs it, rules it, and will continue to do so. Might as well get used to. It’s going to be that way for eternity.

You’re the one ranting and raving about how the world is ruled by an invisible man.

The “right wing” has not been more open in religion. It’s just that the left wingers try to suppress and ban religion (except for Islam which they adore) and us “right wingers” fight back.

Atheist left wingers are constantly being criticized by theist left wingers for being “Islamophobic” because so many of them are such outspoken critics of Islam.

Also, left wingers, unlike many right wingers, support the first amendment to the U.S. constitution, which is what guarantees your right to religion in the first place. Far from trying to “ban” or “suppress” it, we’re trying to make it possible for everyone to believe according to his or her conscience. We oppose efforts by those like you who try to foist their warped, malignant form of Christianity on others. You can worship whatever stupid idol you want, we only have a problem when you try to tell others what is sacred.

Anyone who is a socialist is by trade a radical tyrant terrorist. They hate individual freedom and will regulate freedom out of existance. Thye use codewords like “safety” and “common good” as their backdrop to their supreme rule over people.

Funny, it’s usually right wingers that I see depriving people of rights for “safety” and “common good.” They also don’t seem very big on individual rights unless they get exclusive privileges to interpret those rights for other people (talk about totalitarian — “we will tell you what freedom is!”). On the other hand, most of the people I know who skew socialist are very concerned about individual rights. I don’t know any right winger civil liberty activists, but I do know some left winger civil liberty activists. Why do you suppose that is?

Enjoy your socialism while it lasts, becuase when Christ comes back it will be destroyed along with those who invented it and use it and true freedom will reign forever.

People have been saying this for about 2000 years…any day now, right? Hahahahahahhaaha
#41 Owlmirror
September 14, 2011

If he chooses to subscribe to man’s idea about the universe rather than from God’s truth

Do you think that the universe is a lie?

We still teach and believe that evolution is a product of a mentally delusional slave owner (darwin) that hated God so much he would think of any excuse to rid society of religion.

Ah.

So you teach an believe a pack of ludicrous and hypocritical lies. So very, very fundementalist Christian. Believe lies; call the truth a lie; demand that everyone believe the same lies that you believe.

Sorry, but we will never go away.

Your belief that children never question their parents’ delusions and lies is noted, and amusing.

When this world ends at Meggido

Your belief that God hates the world is noted, and depressing.

all who will be left will be the followers of Christ.

You hatred for everyone who is not a member if your cult is noted, and saddening.

The God who created this universe still runs it, rules it, and will continue to do so.

Your belief in your own infallibility is noted, and pathetic.

The “right wing” has not been more open in religion.

Finally, something that is true.

. It’s just that the left wingers try to suppress and ban religion (except for Islam which they adore)

Your stupid lies are noted.

and us “right wingers” fight back.

Your love for your cult and hatred for all religions that are not your cult is noted.

I do understand socialism.

Your failure to understand socialism, and your failure to understand your misunderstanding of socialism, is noted.

oh, and spelling/grammar is not important on a website that still believes that we decended from apes.

Your ludicrous non-sequitur is noted, and is stupid and funny.

If we are related to apes then the ability to spell is irrelevant becuase we are uncivilized animals.

Your use of the naturalistic fallacy combined with the genetic fallacy is noted, and is pathetic.

Are we uncivilized animals that evolved from mud over trillions of centuries

Your ignorance of the order of magnitude of the age of the universe is noted (10^¹²×10^² years == 10^¹⁴ years, or 4 orders of magnitude too high).

And your continued use of the genetic fallacy is noted.

or are we man created in the image of God with asould and are accountabel to God for our actions?

Good grief. You can’t even be bothered to spell “soul” and “accountable” correctly when you’re trying to appeal to the existence of souls and accountability? That’s pathetic.
#42 Bible Thumper
September 14, 2011

owlmirror and the rest of the hoots:

As I was saying, spelling is irrelevant on a website where everyone thinks they are related to an ape.

Also, lefties do try to supress religion. Particularly Christianity. Proof? Just you try and do something religious at CHRISTMAS!. The ACLU will come down on you like fire reigning from the sky on Sodom. The war on christmas got pretty bad until friends in the media started showing the public what moron dictators we had calling trhe shots. I am glad Fox News has shamed the ACLU and all other puppets of satan over the war on christmas. Looks like no one else was reported the news.

As long as the left wages war on Christmas, the right will have a responsibility to accept the challenge “move forward” (another left wing codeword for destroying society)
and reclaim that which is sacred and right.

Now, Darwin himslef may not have been a slave owner but have you ever bothered to read his racist views of black people. You know he wrote more than the blasphemer mud to man theory book. Wasn’t it darwin who said that black people lacked the same intelligence that white people had? Was this not the same premise that led Hitler to eradicate anyone not like himself? Sounds awful similar. You people just do not want to admit that marxism is absolute evil.

Socialism has nothing to do with buidling roads and bridges and helping veterans. We pay axes to have an infrastructure for the nation. That is a given. Social Security is sort of a socialist program. most people pay into the system and get something back. Very little, but something. The thing that bothers me is this. I personally know several people who pay $0 in federal taxes yet get back a five figure check when they fill out their W2 forms. How does that work. If you pay no taxes, then you should get nothing back. Right now more than half the country pays no federal income tax whatsoever and yet the liberals are always screaming about wanting more revenue to fund their art projects and insect studies and other non important things that could be funded privately. If you want more revenue to pay for your silly programs then make the other half of the country pay taxes.

For this reason alone I am in favor of abolishing the income tax and the IRS and having a national 9% sales tax. I bet the 12 million illegal aliens and the 50% of americans who bum out of paying their fair share have to pay then.

I wonder if I could get by without paying taxes and still get a huge check in April. Man, how nice it must be to be “poor”. (a code word for black, latino, or illegal). Socialism sucks. Literally. It sucks money out of the system to go to bums. We could literally save trillions and have a better tax revenue by getting rid of the current tax system in favor of single national sales tax. The revenue would triple and the treasury would be in plenty abundance for not having to give handouts. There would be plenty for infrastucture spending, military, education (real education, not sex ed, global warming,alternate history,etc.)

Liberals have a number of codewords they use:

Poor means black, latino, illegal,etc
Move forward means to crash thee current system
climate change means wealth redistribution
same sex “marriage” means two sodomites in a contract

The 1960s young communists have really beat this country into a pot of crud. This country used to be better than this. People used to work for a living instead of getting a handount. People used to be jailed for being a debtor, now they get a handout. People used to have to earn a trophy now it is give so that precious feeling will not get hurt. The hippies really sissified this nation. Thanks alot. I would have stated that at least the leftists would never mess up tradition in the middle east, but then came the egypt scandal where we had american communists and socialists working directly with the muslim brotherhood and HAMAS in the arab spring. Nice work by the way. Now, as predicted, the egyptian terrorists that the left wingers helped promote wants to wage war on Israel. I pray for a repeat of the six days war. only tenfold. Nice going. Marxism has officially screwed up the entire planet.
#43 Kel
September 14, 2011

Now, Darwin himslef may not have been a slave owner but have you ever bothered to read his racist views of black people.

And that affects the scientific validity of evolutionary theory, how?

No matter what Darwin’s views were, the validity of evolution is found in the empirical data. The empirical data supports evolution, so what does it matter about what Darwin thought?
#44 Owlmirror
September 15, 2011

As I was saying, spelling is irrelevant on a website where everyone thinks they are related to an ape.

Does it not occur to you that if you’re trying to argue that you’re better than an ape-relation, you should maybe try acting like you’re better than one?

Or do you just not care?

So far, it looks like you are an ape-relation that happens to think that being related to an ape has some non-existent connection to you not bothering to check your spelling, and you not arguing relevantly, and you not reasoning correctly.

So you’re a particularly apathetic and painfully stupid ape-specimen. Pity.

Also, lefties do try to supress religion. Particularly Christianity. Proof? Just you try and do something religious at CHRISTMAS!. The ACLU will come down on you like fire reigning from the sky on Sodom.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

You’re allowed to do anything religious you like at Christmas. The ACLU will defend your right to do anything religious.

But they also defend the right of non-Christians to not have your Christianity forced upon them. Or do you not think they matter? Of course you don’t. Only your cult matters, right?

As long as the left wages war on Christmas, the right will have a responsibility to accept the challenge “move forward” (another left wing codeword for destroying society)
and reclaim that which is sacred and right.

Which is a right-wing code phrase for forcing everyone to be Christian by destroying the freedom of religion in society.

Now, Darwin himslef may not have been a slave owner

Has it ever occurred to you that if Darwin being a slave-owner is a lie, other claims by Southern Baptists about Darwin might also be lies?

No, probably not. To do that, you would have to care about truth, and of course, you don’t.

but have you ever bothered to read his racist views of black people.

Have you bothered to read the racist views of Southern Baptists?

Wasn’t it darwin who said that black people lacked the same intelligence that white people had?

Wasn’t it Southern Baptists who claimed that black people were cursed by God to be slaves to white people, and were stupid to boot?

Was this not the same premise that led Hitler to eradicate anyone not like himself?

Most of the people killed by Hitler were not black.

However, most of the people lynched by Southern Baptists were indeed black.

Sounds awful similar. You people just do not want to admit that marxism is absolute evil.

You just don’t want to admit that Southern Baptism is absolute evil.

Socialism has nothing to do with buidling roads and bridges and helping veterans. We pay axes to have an infrastructure for the nation.

Which is socialism.

I personally know several people who pay $0 in federal taxes yet get back a five figure check when they fill out their W2 forms.

Bullshit.

If you pay no taxes, then you should get nothing back.

Or in other words, if you are poor, you should starve to death. Got it.

Man, how nice it must be to be “poor”. (a code word for black, latino, or illegal).

Oh, look. You’re a racist, too! How very unsurprising.

This country used to be better than this.

Why don’t you leave, then? Oh, right. Nazi Germany doesn’t exist any more, so there’s nowhere for you to go to where you would be happy with the way that you are treated, and the way that people you don’t like are treated.

Well, why don’t you just kill yourself? Think about it. I’m sure that you will not find that the afterlife has any of the features that you are so unhappy about in the United States of America.

Marxism has officially screwed up the entire planet.

Feel free to leave. Or are you too sissified yourself?
#45 Wow
September 15, 2011

“As I was saying, spelling is irrelevant on a website where everyone thinks they are related to an ape.”

Well you have the same pairing of arms, legs, eyes, nostrils, ears and lungs. So you’re physiologically related to an ape.

Unless you’re saying you’re not human-shaped…
#46 Wow
September 15, 2011

“Are we uncivilized animals that evolved from mud over trillions of centuries”

Does anyone else find this amusing when his holy book states that adam was created by god out of mud? I guess he thinks it’s better if we evolved from mud over a few years than if we had a few trillion years between us and mud…
#47 Bible Thumper
September 15, 2011

@ wow

Yeah. i guess you are right. I have a hairy butt like an ape too. However, the distinguishing characteristic include the accountability to God in humans. Not sure apes have souls to be accounted for. Planet of the Apes writers thought so, but that is neither here nor there.

Oh, and the soul cannot evolve from mud. it needs a spirit creator to exist. Apes don’t have that. Sorry to rain on your mud to man fairy tale.

@ owlmirror

Just like a liberal to call someone a racist when he loses an argument. Oh well. You are right. I have nowhere else to go. America is the last free nation on earth except for UAE. Even the jihadists there have less regulations than american commies force on everyone. American is rapidly becoming a dictatorship. Did you knw that it is illegal to be self reliant in California? If you pump your own water, grow your own food, and own your own land and home, and have your own electricity, you can be put in prison? WOW! california is a nazi regime. I cannot see what anyone would be offered by living in such a sin filled Sodomite totalitarian hellhole. I do have an idea though. Since leftists like socilaism why not make THEM move to a socialist country instead of making everyone else around them change? Would that not be easier? So, you move and I’ll stay free. Thanks. Sovereign Individuals reign supreme over government owned peasants any duau of the week buddy.

Southern baptist racists? Hmmm. I guess I missed the memo.

Oh and dear, I promist that the ACLU and every God hater in the nation would storm my property with threats of violence if I were to emntion the word christmas in california. Guess it’s easier being a jihadists or a pagan there. Christmas was banned in schools and everywhere else until people stood up to the bullies on the left.

At least walmart went back to saying merry christmas instead of being bullied into anti-christmasism. Can’t say the same for The Gay Depot. Never again will one of my pennies enter that sodomite seller. Pepsi hasn’t seen one of my pennies since 2001. I say if all christians were to withold their money from companies that make political war on christianity, they might change their attitude.

I have saved thousands of dollars in place of spending it on products made by companies that have hardcore fascist left wing policies.

Back to the topic at hand. Vaccines are fine if you so choose to take one. It is your personal independent free choice to do so. However, no one on this planet can claim to have the authority to make you take poison against your will. That is a violation of the 4th amendment which may in turn be defended with the 2nd amendment. The second amendment makes all other possible.

oh and by the bay, liberals are not stupid, but they are racist. They keep giving handouts to so called minorities in order to make sure certain voting blocks keep them in power. Isn’t that called bribery? Is there not laws against such acts of treason? Smart. Buy power and keep giving out gifts to people to keep you there. Sounds like chavez. Or stalin. or one of them lying dictators.
#48 Bible Thumper
September 15, 2011

@ wow

Yeah. i guess you are right. I have a hairy butt like an ape too. However, the distinguishing characteristic include the accountability to God in humans. Not sure apes have souls to be accounted for. Planet of the Apes writers thought so, but that is neither here nor there.

Oh, and the soul cannot evolve from mud. it needs a spirit creator to exist. Apes don’t have that. Sorry to rain on your mud to man fairy tale.

@ owlmirror

Just like a liberal to call someone a racist when he loses an argument. Oh well. You are right. I have nowhere else to go. America is the last free nation on earth except for UAE. Even the jihadists there have less regulations than american commies force on everyone. American is rapidly becoming a dictatorship. Did you knw that it is illegal to be self reliant in California? If you pump your own water, grow your own food, and own your own land and home, and have your own electricity, you can be put in prison? WOW! california is a nazi regime. I cannot see what anyone would be offered by living in such a sin filled Sodomite totalitarian hellhole. I do have an idea though. Since leftists like socilaism why not make THEM move to a socialist country instead of making everyone else around them change? Would that not be easier? So, you move and I’ll stay free. Thanks. Sovereign Individuals reign supreme over government owned peasants any duau of the week buddy.

Southern baptist racists? Hmmm. I guess I missed the memo.

Oh and dear, I promist that the ACLU and every God hater in the nation would storm my property with threats of violence if I were to emntion the word christmas in california. Guess it’s easier being a jihadists or a pagan there. Christmas was banned in schools and everywhere else until people stood up to the bullies on the left.

At least walmart went back to saying merry christmas instead of being bullied into anti-christmasism. Can’t say the same for The Gay Depot. Never again will one of my pennies enter that sodomite seller. Pepsi hasn’t seen one of my pennies since 2001. I say if all christians were to withold their money from companies that make political war on christianity, they might change their attitude.

I have saved thousands of dollars in place of spending it on products made by companies that have hardcore fascist left wing policies.

Back to the topic at hand. Vaccines are fine if you so choose to take one. It is your personal independent free choice to do so. However, no one on this planet can claim to have the authority to make you take poison against your will. That is a violation of the 4th amendment which may in turn be defended with the 2nd amendment. The second amendment makes all other possible.

Oh and libeals are very intelligent. Conservatives would never have thought of giving handouts and special priviedges to so called minorities in exchange for unlimited power over the masses. face it. If handouts were not used, the democrat party would be history. It is those free handouts and special priviliedges that get democrats elected over and over again. however, some of them are wising up and becoming independent of the government. Now, we can’t have that now can we? Call me a racist? How dare you. I full heartedly support Herman Cain for president. You don’t? YOUR RACIST! How dare a black man run for office you you not vote for him. You racist!

Wow. Now I sound like a liberal.
#49 Captain patriot
September 15, 2011

Bible thumper, do not let the silly people get to you by calling you a racist. If you want a real experience just wait until a gay fascist calls you racist. The first time it happened to me I almost laughed my ass off. After five full minuetes of uncontrollabel laughed I had to ask the question “What the hell is a “rathith”? “Just let them know that being called a word means nothing unless they can pronounce it correctly. Pointing and luaghing and making fun of them is the quickest way to shut them up and make them stop annoying you.

So people. Bible thumper is now a “rathith bigot and with poor mannerths (manners). hilarious! Elmer Fudd could not do it better. Lefties crakc me up. I try to listen to liberal radio. I have never called in becuase I couldn’t make fun of the host without laughing so hard I could not finish my statement. I’ll try to call ole Bill Press one of these days. Boy have I got some fun to poke at him. The make it Plain show is another hilarious one. The way that guy gets all upset and puts about 75 letters in one word stuttering makes me almost drive off the road sometimes. I get so cracked up.

“Now Now Now Now Now Now Now Now Now Now, wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute. Let get this straight.” The first time I heard this gangsta get upset, I almost peed in my breeches I was laughing so hard.

So Bible thumper, just laugh at them. It helps take your mind off the fact they would love to kill us all through population control. At least that’s what Obama’s commie green czar/lifelong pal (Van Jones) said.
#50 Lenoxus
September 15, 2011

bible thumper:

dear, I promist that the ACLU and every God hater in the nation would storm my property with threats of violence if I were to emntion the word christmas in california.

I’m not sure that is completely true. Yes, it is the case that emntioning the word “Christmas” in the state of California has been a felony since 1996. (Mentioning the word is A-OK, far as I know.) However, the enforcement of the law would not be done by every God hater in the USA — some of us have jobs and so forth. Then again, you merely promisted it, not promised, so perhaps you were exaggerating a tad.

Southern baptist racists? Hmmm. I guess I missed the memo.

(Serious mode now.) Well, FYI, the Southern Baptist Convention began as the slavery-tolerant side in a Baptist schism over slavery. And AFAIK it never condemned the Jim Crow laws, etc. However, according to Wikipedia:

In June 1995 at the 150th Anniversary of the Southern Baptist Convention, the SBC adopted a resolution officially denouncing racism and expressing remorse over the role that Southern Baptists have played in the acceptance of racism in the past. This resolution clearly calls racism a “deplorable sin” and apologizes to African Americans for “condoning and/or perpetuating individual and systematic racism.”

So they’ve made some amends. I have a strange feeling you would be among the opponents of such an apology if you had been aware of it at the time, but I don’t know that for a fact.
#51 Bible Thumper
September 15, 2011

Oh. I was unaware of how accurate wikipedia was. Are they as accurate as CBS news now? I keep forgetting which one has the most media bias. Nevermind. I’m sorry. I was thinking of MSLSD and all the commies that run it.

wikipedia. Might as well be reading Grim’s fairy tales. At least grim has consistency.

Now, Conservapedia is the place to be.

I am not surprised California is not putting christian in forced labor camps. It actually really would be be surprising. We expect the announcement any day now. Oh well, I guess that’s waht the 2nd amendment insures against.
#52 Owlmirror
September 15, 2011

Pointing and luaghing and making fun of them is the quickest way to shut them up and make them stop annoying you.

You’re a moron who can’t even spell “laughing” correctly. Haha!

The way that guy gets all upset and puts about 75 letters in one word stuttering makes me almost drive off the road sometimes.

You shouldn’t drive while drunk or high, but that’s right-wingers for you.

The first time I heard this gangsta get upset, I almost peed in my breeches

Yeah, being drunk will impair your continence too.

It helps take your mind off the fact they would love to kill us all through population control.

Nah, you’re doing a great job of killing yourselves off by indulging in psychoactive substances while operating heavy machinery at high speeds.

Hey! Maybe you’ll win a Darwin award!

Irony!
#53 Captain patriot
September 15, 2011

Bible Thumper. Let it goes. Lenoxus is not worth it.

The name alone sounds like snot that got plugged up, turned around, and blew out of his ass. A san francisco pervert/homo that makes his own lubrication. Now, THAT is evolution!

I guess I better be careful what I say. Someone may put me on the government hit list known as flag@whitehouse.gov

Now britain has a policy that makes children criminals for calling each other names. Oh, how I can have fun with that one. Britian is worse than the nazis they defeated. At least in the nazis, calling someone a “broccholi head” would not get a 4 year old on a government watch list. These terds need a revolution. I call on all old men in britian to tradh every camera that is up and running and laugh in the face at your overlords. Never trust anyone under 40.
#54 Owlmirror
September 15, 2011

I am not surprised California is not putting christian in forced labor camps.

I think most people would not be surprised by extraordinary events that are not happening, so you’re nothing special there.
#55 Capatain patriot
September 15, 2011

@owlmirro

Hey dummy. Name me one piece of heavy machinery that travel at high speeds. Rockets are not heavy machinery either. I guess bulldozers are the new Porshe these days. Wow, what green technology can do these days.

Sounds about right. Speaking of which, I wonder when taht billionaire scum bucket that reveived stimulus money to build a stupid solar panle company is going to prison for his treason?

I hope the FBI checks Obama out real good on this one. This could be the opportunity to undo everything he has laid his hands on. One little financial connection is all I ask for. Please let there be communists involved. The ones who openly stated they hope the system would collapse. Please! This would be the ultimate undoing of green anything and anyone who had connections to it.

Why the fuclk would the government give a comany 500 million? Have these basterds ever heard of a fucking business loan? WTF? I say they go to prison for life or pay the money back tenfold. Their choice.
#56 eric
September 15, 2011

Bible Thumper: Socialism has nothing to do with buidling roads and bridges and helping veterans.

Yeah, it does. Socialism is just redistribution of wealth. Any time your taxes are being paid out to someone else, excluding wages for jobs, that’s socialism. When your congresscritter puts in a $10million earmark for a university, business, town, or county in your district, that’s socialism.

Like a lot of crazy righties, you have decided in your mind that the ‘good’ redsitributions you approve of don’t count as socialism. But that’s what it is; socialism is a political system that includes redistribution of wealth; whether you personally think some cause is good or bad has nothing to do with it being socialism or not.

Man, how nice it must be to be “poor”.

If you think it’s so wonderful, put your money where your mouth is, and quit your job. No? I didn’t think so. Your lips might claim they are living in undeserved luxury, but your actions say otherwise.

We could literally save trillions and have a better tax revenue by getting rid of the current tax system in favor of single national sales tax

People would simply go to Canada and Mexico to buy products. Or businesses would relocate there and sell their stuff over the internet. I know this because people are already doing it – businesses within the U.S. locate their “official” place of business in a states without state sales tax, and ship from there.

Marxism has officially screwed up the entire planet.

Would that be the marxism proposed by Peter in Acts 2, 4, and 5? I note you didn’t bother to refute my point on that. Did I touch a nerve, Aninas?
#57 NJ
September 15, 2011

KKKapitan Patriot@55:

I say they go to prison for life or pay the money back tenfold. Their choice.

Since it seems the company in question applied for the money in December of 2006 under the Energy Policy Act of 2005, and the Bush administration tried to push the loan through in January 2009 without sufficient review, maybe you are right.

Send Bush to prison.
#58 NJ
September 15, 2011

Bible Stroker @ 48:

I say if all christians were to withold their money from companies that ~~make political war on~~ refuse to toady to my preferred version of christianity, they ~~might change their attitude~~ would soon realize that people like me are the very definition of CINOs.

FIFY.
#59 eric
September 15, 2011

Thumper: Now, Conservapedia is the place to be.

Ah yes, relativity-is-untrue, dinosaurs-and-people-lived-together, we’re-rewriting-the-bible-to-remove-any-parables-of-Jesus-that-are-meriful-to-the-poor conservapedia. Truly a font of historical and scientific accuracy.

I am not surprised California is not putting christian in forced labor camps.

No need, they have flouridated your water to taint your precious bodily fluids and have a mind control laser beaming pacifistic, marxist thoughts into your head. Better get a tinfoil hat. It’s the only way to stay safe.
#60 Captain patriot
September 15, 2011

Actually tinfoil does not work as well as some thought. It’s ok if it’s grounded, but who want to stand around chained to a ground rod all day with aluminum foil on their head?

Instead I have found some material used in electronics specifically for blocking certain unwanted frequencies. Yes it can block cell phone radiation as well. It has been known to help alien abductees get free from the paralysis that the would be captures use. This stuff works. Believe me. I have met and conversed with abductees before. The greys fear humans whom they have no control over. We could snap their puny necks in half if paralysis was not an issue. They are weak and relay on their technology. If it ever fails them, they will be in deep shit becuase someone will get pissed and kick their asses. Now, if someone would just invent a particle beam weapon so I could destroy HAARP and end man made global climate change.

I work around RF all the time and it can actually interfere with brain waves if used correctly. mind control conspiracy nuts do not understand that this technology is in the beginning stages and that it will take generations to perfect. Now, microwave radiaton towers are a plenty these days. When big brother knocks down your down, a gun will do you no good while your insides fry from their targeted towers. Of course a hand grenade would be handy, take out yourself and the aggressors at the same time, but they are difficult to make and too dangerous to fool with and not sold in chain stores. Sort of like real light bulbs these days.

There will come a time when purchasing a hand grenade will be easier and cheaper than an incandescent light bulb. People are fools for not mas storing these light bulbs. in forty years they will be worth hundreds of dollars each. The black market is great for banned items. I love when government bans things. I can make more money that way. It drives the value through thee roof. Now, socialisze that!

Sodium flouride was used on Jews in concentration camps long ago. We all know the damaging effects it can have. California is proof of it. Flouride in the water, aluminum and mercury in vaccines, etc. man, no wonder brain damage is so rampant today.

As far as Bush is concerned I don;t care. I am glad he is no longer in the white house. However, we traded one dummy for another. Everything Obama and his college commie pals has dreamed of since their days of youth and violence has come to pass. All of this crap we are dealing with is on purpose. It was designed. The commies wrote the stimulus bill back in the Clinton era. The healthcare bill has been in the works for near 35 years now. All of this shit was planned.

I am glad Bush had the balls to bomb the fuck out of jihadists, but I wish he had kept his balls for when the commies came for him. He signed a stupid energy bill and a fucked up bail out plan that has yet to show any sign of progress.

Instead of giving low interest handouts to failing banks, we should have told them they had 12 months to pay every penney back with 50% interest or else they will be bustimng rocks in prison for 35 years. As far as fannie mae goes, we should have gave them the money free of charge and arrested Barney Frank and Chris Dodd for extortion, fraud, treason, and conspriacy to destroy the financal infrastructure of the nation. They should have gotten life in prison at thee very minimum.
#61 Kel
September 16, 2011

It’s interesting that although I try to engage Bible Thumper on his points, I get ignored while instead goes on rants about liberals and socialism.

If you’re going to argue, do it properly!
#62 Wow
September 16, 2011

Bishop Basher: “However, the distinguishing characteristic include the accountability to God in humans.”

Nope, there is no accountability to god for anything to anything.

If this WERE a distinguishing characteristic, then you can be descended from an ape and then one day be accountable to god. There is therefore nothing there that discounts the fact of common descent between apes and men.

It is odd however, that you believe that we are accountable to something that doesn’t exist and this means we cannot be descended for apes. It is, in fact, a non-sequitor.

Bish Basher: “Oh, and the soul cannot evolve from mud.”

True. Neither do unicorns evolve from mud. This is because, like souls, unicorns don’t exist.

Bishop Basher: “it needs a spirit creator to exist.”

And since the creator doesn’t exist, and the soul doesn’t exist, there is no inconsistency.

Bishop Basher: “Apes don’t have that.”

What? God didn’t create the animals?!?!?

But yes, Apes don’t have a soul either. Neither do humans.
#63 James Sweet
September 16, 2011

Heh, this is still going on?

Every time I try to read any comment from Bible Thumper, within two sentences I encounter an argument so stupid that it makes my brain melt. (In the most recent case, it was the bizarre assertion that “spelling doesn’t count on a website where everyone thinks they are descended from apes”. That’s just so… so… so very fucked-upetty stupid as all get-out, that I don’t even know how to start to respond to that.) I’m not sure what the point is. All that BT deserves is, “Wow, you are so fucking inconceivably moronic, just STFU and go away.” Nothing more is required or even desired.
#64 NJ
September 16, 2011

James Sweet @ 63:

Every time I try to read any comment from Bible Thumper, within two sentences I encounter an argument so stupid that it makes my brain melt.

I submit we can argue that this is a necessary consequence of BT’s mentality. He/she/it doesn’t think for itself, it simply thinks what it has been told to think, to repeat a series of talking points. And since it can’t sort out the concepts in any sort of logical fashion (which would require an understanding, even a shallow one), the talking points come out in an almost random arrangement of words.

Imagine giving a first grader a series of blocks with numbers and a variety of mathematical symbols on them. You could present them in equation form in almost any fashion, even if there were egregious errors obvious to anyone with a passing grade in Calc 100. And when you asked later to get equations back from the child in some form, all you would get is gobbledegook.

My current working hypothesis anyway…
#65 eric
September 16, 2011

Every time I try to read any comment from Bible Thumper, within two sentences I encounter an argument so stupid that it makes my brain melt.

Read my post @59 and Patriot’s response @60. I didn’t think anyone would take my sarcasm seriously. That’ll teach me to underestimate poe’s law.
#66 ildi
September 16, 2011

People are fools for not mas storing these light bulbs. in forty years they will be worth hundreds of dollars each.

Not really. Even an original Edison light bulb with an intact carbon filament only goes for $95 on Ebay, and those actually look cool. Now, you may want to make sure you have the 60 watt bulbs for your vintage Suzy Homemaker oven to increase its value as a collectible…
#67 Bible Thumper
September 16, 2011

@ james sweet

You told me to go away?

I am away. Didn’t you notice?

My argument makes perfect sense. If you are related to an ape and you have no soul or no creator and you are just another uncivilized animals, then why exactly does spelling count? Do you cousins, the apes, spell correctly? No. They are animals. They ahve no human intelligence. God created us to be seperate from the animals. We are above the animals but lower than the angels.

Nevermind that. Now, you’ll be calling the ACLU to filed a segregation lawsuit against God for placing us as inferior to angels. I bet they would be stupid and God hater enough to accept it.

Please use your intelligence. Do not tell me to go away. I am already away.
#68 Kel
September 17, 2011

If you are related to an ape and you have no soul or no creator and you are just another uncivilized animals, then why exactly does spelling count?

Why would being related to an ape mean that spelling doesn’t count? We have evolved to utilise language, spelling is an important part of being understood by others. What does having a soul and a creator do for the validity of that?

But the whole argument is stupid. Why should it matter that you eat? Or breathe? Or anything? After all, you have no soul…

Do you cousins, the apes, spell correctly? No.

Your distant cousins, the tuna don’t breathe oxygen, yet we do. What does relatedness have to do with our features?
#69 NJ
September 17, 2011

Bible Stroker @ 67:

My argument makes perfect sense to people like me who have little education, no willingness to learn, and only a slavish ability to follow authorities who exploit me for their own personal gain.

FIFY.
#70 Bible Thumper
September 17, 2011

So, now we are related to tuna as well?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is that why some people name their kid Charlie?

My delusional warped friend, I assume you watched The Incredible Mr. Limpet one too many times.

It’s one thing for anti-Goders to make up stories about us being related to apes becuase some people look look and act like one, but to say we are related to tuna is just hilarious.

Are we related to butterflies too? I bet we are.

I will have to tell this one to the guys at work. Nothing like a good joke to start off a Monday morning.

Well, I have a soul becuase I was created by God. My ancestors actually did derive from mud, but God formed everything from the dust of the earth that He spoke into existance over 6500 years ago. So, technically Darwin’s mud to man fantasy is not entirely wrong, He just left out a few minor things like SIN resulting in the DEATH of all life one earth and the changing of the order of things, and REDEMPTION, and JUDGEMENT, and so forth. No need to worry about how death came into existance and how it affects the furture. Let’s just all be happy little tune swimming through the oceans of life.

What a pathetic joke to play on people. Evolution, behind global warming and the “there is no such thing as evil and sin” mentality, is a sick, twisted perverted way to think.

What a waste of space we are if we are nothing more than a lump of cells walking around with no pupose. Well you stick to your mud to tune to ape to man fantasy and I’ll keep on teaching the kiddies about how the world began and ends. It’s all in Genesis. Speaking of which, the use of Answers in Genesis materials are great for teaching kids in the church.
#71 Kel
September 17, 2011

So, now we are related to tuna as well?

Of course. We’re related to all life.

Are we related to butterflies too? I bet we are.

Indeed so. We’re related to all life.

Well, I have a soul becuase I was created by God.

Really? Wow! I was created by my parents… But how do you know that you have a soul? How do you know you were created by God? Both my parents will attest to their role in creating me, who can vouch for God’s role in creating you?

What a waste of space we are if we are nothing more than a lump of cells walking around with no pupose.

Pfft. Who needs purpose when there’s meaning through living? I don’t know about you, but I find meaning in life through living. To experience life’s pleasures, through friends and family, through learning and accomplishment, etc. What possible purpose could compare?
#72 Kel
September 18, 2011

Also, doesn’t it seem odd, Bible Thumper, that you can be so confident that evolution is a fairy tale, yet you don’t seem to know about what it is or how it works. Remember that it’s overwhelmingly supported by those experts who study it, so if it seems absurd on the face of it, perhaps that’s a reason to dig deeper into the theory and understand the claims. A couple of good books for that are Ernst Mayr – What Evolution Is, and Jerry Coyne – Why Evolution Is True. Read those, and if nothing else, hopefully you can understand why the theory is held in such regard among biologists.
#73 Modusoperandi
September 18, 2011

Pah! “Comment in moderation”. It contained too much awesome, apparently.
#74 Modusoperandi
September 18, 2011

Harbo “If your god is sending a message, why is it always so cryptic?”
Pah! It’s not “cryptic”. God hates the same things they hate. Unpopular Minorities, generally.

Captain Patriot “I try to listen to liberal radio.”
NPR is not liberal radio. It’s that odd “Village Liberal” that infuriates liberals with its “conventional wisdom” and generally oatmealish consistency.

“It helps take your mind off the fact they would love to kill us all through population control.”
Hardly.

“At least that’s what Obama’s commie green czar/lifelong pal (Van Jones) said.”,/i>
{citation needed}

“Speaking of which, I wonder when taht billionaire scum bucket that reveived stimulus money to build a stupid solar panle company is going to prison for his treason?”
Solyndra? Really? Is that the faux-outrage for today?

“There will come a time when purchasing a hand grenade will be easier and cheaper than an incandescent light bulb. People are fools for not mas storing these light bulbs.”
The incandescent lightbulb is not banned. The law merely states that the efficienct must go up. (In addition to the CFLs, which you are in no way outraged about when you work under them every single day at your job) There are halogens coming up that meet the standard.
Also, it doesn’t cover bulbs 75W until 2013, and under 40W until the year after that.

“…mercury in vaccines…”
Holy crap. People on the Right are listening to Jenny McCarthy!

“The healthcare bill has been in the works for near 35 years now.”
Wrong. Most of it (see: Orrin Hatch’s Individual Mandate) was the Republican counter-plan to Hilarycare back in the 90s. Also, if it was actually liberal it would be Single Payer.

eric “But this is at least partly due to the fact that you other countries like to send your nutters to us.”
Free trade. And in return we get Michael Bay movies.

Dan L. “Far from trying to ‘ban’ or ‘suppress’ it, we’re trying to make it possible for everyone to believe according to his or her conscience.”
Pah! There’s nothing in the First Amendment that says you have the so-called “right” to believe the wrong thing!
#75 Bible Thumper
September 18, 2011

Also, doesn’t it seem odd, Kel, that you can be so confident that religion is a fairy tale, yet you don’t seem to know about what it is or how it works. Remember that it’s overwhelmingly supported by people who study it, so if it seems absurd on the face of it, perhaps that’s a reason to dig deeper and understand the claims. A few thousand good books writeen by various authors from Adrian Rodgers to Ken ham and hundreds of others can help you understand reality. Read those, and if nothing else, hopefully you can understand why christianity is held in such regard among People who read the Bible and believe it exactly as it is written. You do not need a high college degree to decipher the Bible. Common sense tells you when to take things literally or not. Comon sense must have left American liberals decades ago. Peer reviewed nonsense is all they believe. If there was a peer reviewed study on how astronuagt who eat Jolly ranchers during blast off live to be 250 years old, liberals would beleive it becuase some nut wearing a tie and weilding a PhD told them so.
#76 NJ
September 18, 2011

Bible Stroker @ 75:

Also, doesn’t it seem odd, Kel, that you can be so confident that religion is a fairy tale, yet you don’t seem to know about what it is or how it works.

A quick look upthread find that Kel has comments at 8,9,13,43,61,68 and 72. In none of those comments has Kel made any statement even vaguely resembling “religion is a fairy tale”.

It turns out our slow-witted chew toy has taken the first sentence of #72 and subbed in “religion” for “evolution” as if this represented an actual argument of some type. But a careful consideration supports my contention in #64: This character is not responding to anyone’s points as they have been presented, but to an Osterized version that corresponds to the voices in its head!

A further example:

If there was a peer reviewed study on how astronuagt who eat Jolly ranchers during blast off live to be 250 years old, liberals would beleive it becuase some nut wearing a tie and weilding a PhD told them so.

I am not exaggerating when I say I have heard more cogent argumentation from a severely developmentally disabled sibling of a high school friend.

Most here will be familiar with Collin Brendemuehl, who is a hard core creationist and invariably tries to defend catastrophically poor arguments in favor of that belief. But he at least does so in an intelligible fashion. Our current chew toy makes all creationists look even worse than usual; I shall be saddened to see it leave or the thread to end, as the worse creationism appears, the better the world becomes.
#77 Kel
September 18, 2011

Also, doesn’t it seem odd, Kel, that you can be so confident that religion is a fairy tale, yet you don’t seem to know about what it is or how it works. Remember that it’s overwhelmingly supported by people who study it, so if it seems absurd on the face of it, perhaps that’s a reason to dig deeper and understand the claims.

Aside from the fact that nowhere have I stated that I think religion is a fairy tale, who says I don’t know or understand religious claims? And who is to say that I haven’t read any works on religion, or about religion? Heck, right now I’m reading James Sire’s The Universe Next Door.

If you have any specific issues as to where my knowledge is lacking, please let me know. But since I haven’t talked much on religion one way or another in my responses to you, it seems a bit presumptuous on your part that my knowledge is lacking. Meanwhile you didn’t even know the basic claim of common descent – unless you were being facetious with the butterfly remark. But tell me, can you describe evolutionary theory in a few sentences?
#78 Wow
September 19, 2011

> Also, doesn’t it seem odd, Kel, that you can be so confident that religion is a fairy tale

But all those other stories YOU agree are fairy tales have exactly the same predictive powers and even very much the same basic story memes.

What makes you think that the stories of Ulyses going home via the island of the Sirenes a fairy take whilst YOUR ancient story book is not?

After all, there’s no difference between Hercules and Samson.
#79 Kel
September 19, 2011

There’s also a certain irony in dismissing the relevance of the peer review system and saying that people will believe anything so long as it’s peer reviewed, right after making an appeal to the authority and authorship of believers. It’s even more ironic that what’s in peer review is treated with such whimsy that anything crazy can get through, especially given the content of what people take as being literal truth as told through private revelation or supposed divine authorship.

As a contrast – consider how we are having this conversation. Then, conversely, consider why there are 40,000 sects of Christianity.
#80 eric
September 19, 2011

Thumper: People who read the Bible and believe it exactly as it is written.

Oh yes, clearly. That’s why there’s only one sect of Christians and no disagreements at all about what the bible means.

***

If you believed Acts 2, 4, and 5 exactly as it is written, then you should not keep any profit on any sales, Thumper. 100% of what you make should be given to the church or distributed around to the poor.

Why don’t you believe this part of the bible as written, Thumper? Or should I say: Aninas?
#81 Modusoperandi
September 19, 2011

Kel “As a contrast – consider how we are having this conversation. Then, conversely, consider why there are 40,000 sects of Christianity.”
To be fair, everyone loves sects, but you don’t want to do it the same way every time.
#82 Wow
September 19, 2011

You’re sects mad, Modus.

And with their jewelry, priests are just Torc, torc, torc…
#83 Bible Thumper
September 19, 2011

evolutionary theory in a few sentences as requested -

universe pops into existance all by itself

life forms all by itself and starts reproducing all by itself until complex organism are derived from the original lifeless source of chemicals

eventually large land dwelling animals “appear” on the scene. The ones who “appeared” as dinosaurs/dragons/serpents,etc turned into birds over the years

The ones who had hair turned into monekeys which tuned into liberals which after much maturing and growing turned into civilized conservatives. For many that turn hits around 35 years old tough some never evolve into anything and remain monkey like pests for their life. Some even throw molotov cocktails at bankers and business men for strange, unknown, and selfish reasons. You know, sort of how their close kin, the monkeys, throw poo at people. Liberals tend to mock this jesture with burning alcohol. Evolution is strange.
#84 NJ
September 19, 2011

Ah, our brain-damaged pet returns to dig its hole even deeper. Life is good…
#85 Kel
September 19, 2011

evolutionary theory in a few sentences as requested -

universe pops into existance all by itself

That has nothing to do with evolution whatsoever!

eventually large land dwelling animals “appear” on the scene. The ones who “appeared” as dinosaurs/dragons/serpents,etc turned into birds over the years

what do you mean by “appear”? The process is what you’re meant to be describing…

Evolution is strange.

What’s strange is that what you think you wrote above is “evolution”.
#86 Wow
September 20, 2011

“universe pops into existance all by itself”

Doesn’t evolve by breeding, so wrong.

“life forms all by itself and starts reproducing ”

Define life. Sand grains reproduce by brushing against larger stones and making copies of itself from the abrasion. Are they alive?

How about bacteria? Now how about Viruses. And so you keep moving back to find something else that is alive. Because there’s no line “this is alive”.

“until complex organism are derived from the original lifeless source of chemicals”

You’re mostly made of H2O, Carbon and some other original lifeless chemicals. Those chemicals aren’t alive. So you are proof that a complex organism derives from lifeless chemicals.

“The ones who had hair turned into monekeys which tuned into liberals”

And the rest turned into religious fundamentalists.
#87 Lenoxus
September 20, 2011

I wonder if Bible Thumper would express amusement at the idea that s/he is related to Cleopatra, the Dalai Lama and Hitler?

Wow @ 86:

You’re mostly made of H2O, Carbon and some other original lifeless chemicals. Those chemicals aren’t alive. So you are proof that a complex organism derives from lifeless chemicals.

I wonder how long it will take for vitalism to finally disappear. So many people still assume that they aren’t really made out of the same stuff as all nonliving matter.
#88 eric
September 20, 2011

evolutionary theory in a few sentences as requested -

universe pops into existance [sic] all by itself

As others pointed out, that has nothing to do with evolutionary theory.

I am always amused that fundies seem perfectly willing to accept some claims of QM but not others, even though they’re pretty much equally absurd – true, but absurd from a common-sense point of view. A single atom can go through two side-by-side slits simultaneously? Sure, why not. But the heisenberg uncertainty principle? You can’t possibly believe that!!! Look guys, its all the same theory. Something from nothing is a direct consquence of the same principles that make your laser pointer work.

Evolution is strange.

The universe is a strange place. Descent with modification actually being one of the least strange things in it. Get used to the fact that the universe doesn’t – and is not obligated to – fulfill your expectations of how it ought to work.
#89 Megan
November 2, 2011

Fantastic post I very much enjoyed it, keep up the good work.

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