Who were the ancient Hungarians?

We know that the Magyars originated from Inner Eurasia. They were one of the long line of steppe peoples who conquered and settled central Europe, the Avars being their local predecessors. But unlike the Avars, or the Bulgars or the Huns, the Magyars left a cultural imprint: their language. And yet physically and genetically the current Hungarian population seems to exhibit continuity with their European neighbors (in contrast, Gypsies show evidence of haplotypes normally found in the Indian subcontinent). Dienekes points me to some new data:

Strong differences appear when the ancient Hungarian samples are analyzed according to apparent social status, as judged by grave goods. Commoners show a predominance of mtDNA haplotypes and haplogroups (H, R, T), common in west Eurasia, while high-status individuals, presumably conquering Hungarians, show a more heterogeneous haplogroup distribution, with haplogroups (N1a, X) which are present at very low frequencies in modern worldwide populations and are absent in recent Hungarian and Sekler populations.

In other words, the genesis of the modern Hungarian ethnicity occurred via elite emulation as well as assimilation of the that elite by the substrate. Though the Hungarian language is very unique, most other aspects of their culture reflect the region's assimilation toward Latin Christian norms. Note that mtDNA is normally the weaker signal when it comes to the genetic impact of nomads, who are likely to "pick up" women from the conquered peoples during their travels while their patrilineages remain more or less unbroken.

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The original Hungarian conquerors were pretty heterogenous, as is usual with colonizing and conquering bands. You basically recruit all the military help you can get, regardless of origin. Unity derives from the military context, especially when the people attacked are all foreign to the invaders.

The Szeklers are recognized as a separate people by Hungarians and think of themselves as a distinct group. To anyone else they're Hungarians, but the distinction was probably greater during the founding period. It's possible that they were Coman Turks who became Hungarianized. Their own myth is that they were descended from Attila's Huns. They mostly live in Rumania now. They have a rough reputation but were among the first Unitarians.

While the Hungarians definitely came from the East, they seem to have come via the Caucasus, originating in central Siberia. They weren't really Asiastic as we think of it. I can't remember the details, but they were affiliated / in conflict with the Rus, the Bulgar, and maybe the Khazars during their wanderings, before they occupied Hungary.

By John Emerson (not verified) on 18 Jul 2007 #permalink

The Magyars spent their formative years from the 4th thru 9th century in the Steppes north of the Caucasus between the Black and Caspian Seas in close contact with Turkic tribes, which is reflected in the language.

A core group speaking the proto-Magyar language originated further East, perhaps East of the Urals, but the bulk of the Magyars that would invade Hungary originated in the Steppes and would not have been appreciably different from the Eastern and Central Europeans they would settle among and mix with. The original Magyars would have had their lines diluted many times over so that the modern Hungarians have barely a trace of the ancient Magyar genes, which was much more Central Asian.

Despite this, many Hungarians are quite proud of their uniqueness and often exaggerate their distinctness from surrounding populations and view themselves as descendents of Huns and Avars, and even Scythians, rather than linguistically converted Europeans. This fact is supported by the large number of Slavic and Germanic loanwords in Modern Hungarian.

I'd like to rect to the sentence (This fact is supported by the large number of Slavic and Germanic loanwords in Modern Hungarian.

We have germanic loanwords, but it have the hungarian word tally, so we have the hungarian version of course.
The majority do not use the germanic words, but many people do, becuse we were in austrian opress for 300 years and in many people genetically has germanic origin.
So we have our own hungarian words for everything that is point!
About our origin, there is no point in speaking about yet.
It is not totally clear yet.
There are many theories...
One thing is certain, we came from the area of altaj and pamir montain about 1500 years ago to this area.
The genes shows that,so it is a fact.
There is an more interesting thing!
You have to check this I think.
http://www.michelangelo.cn/

By Zoltán (not verified) on 10 Mar 2009 #permalink

Hungarians=
1.native carpathians (language,most of dna,runic letters)
2.sabirs+hun ogurs (the magyars who came home in 895, they were minority)
3.other elements in the basin: slav,german,celt