Sarah Palin's Pastor Problem : Greg Laden's Blog

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Sarah Palin's Pastor Problem

Category: Politics
Posted on: September 2, 2008 9:25 PM, by Greg Laden

Thank you Ana for turning me on to this. Also see this.

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Ok, I've viewed the videos and read the articles. I've also attended Assembly of God churches and I didn't see any thing that would surprise me. Nor do I see or read anything that would raise any Christian's eyebrows.

What is the pastor problem?

Posted by: Joel | September 2, 2008 10:09 PM

Joel, The problem with what you see here is that you have no problem with it.

Posted by: the other joel | September 2, 2008 10:16 PM

The Other Joel, I guess, but what is the pastor problem?

Posted by: Joel | September 2, 2008 10:19 PM

The problem is she is encouraging the congregation to pray for her political projects. This is a woman one stroke away from being President. She believes that our soldiers are carrying out God's plan. It's quite clear that she will allow God to guide her political decisions. Contrast that with Obama, who has openly spoken that faith can guide you in your personal life, but must not be used as your cornerstone upon which to build your political decisions.

Believe in God all you want, but I do not feel we will have a sustainable future economically, socially, and geopolitically if the people in charge turn to God to make their foreign policy decisions, or if they believe their election was God's will, and not the will of the people who elected them.

Posted by: Jonsi | September 2, 2008 10:21 PM

As for the Pastor problem: it is a problem if our vice president believes the end times are here, and she takes counsel with people who preach it. The problem isn't so much the pastor, it's that our VP is so closely associated with someone who advocates that Jesus is likely to return during our lifetime. I do not want political decisions being motivated by that belief.

Posted by: Jonsi | September 2, 2008 10:24 PM

Man, she's scary... God's will is to have a gas line built? and all of Alaska has to convert to their brand of Christianity.

At minimum the pastor is violating the nonprofit status of his church. But nobody on the Right is going to care about that. If Barry Lynn steps in and sues them, they'll just whine about persecution from the 'left'. They're a church of whiners.

Posted by: decrepitoldfool | September 2, 2008 10:27 PM

You people, listen to me. We have this congressperson here in Minnesota ... her name is Michelle Bachmann. I swear to you, Bachmann and Palin seem virtually interchangeable, but maybe Bachmann is a little more so. They both have these strange religious belives, and some interesting psycho-exual stuff going (well, Bachmann does. I don't know about Palin yet, They even look similar.

I look at Palin and I think ... "wow. that's Bachmann. this is un be-fucking-lievable"

Then I think: "Why, why didn't they pick Bachmann... we would be rid of her!"

Yes, I think this 'end times' is the creepiest and most dangerous part of all of this.

Posted by: greg laden | September 2, 2008 10:36 PM

Jonsi, there are many people who beleive that everything in their life is due to God's influence, part of God's plan, that be it great or small, God led them to where they are today for a purpose.

Also that to separate God from their professional life, to not use their faith as their cornerstone upon which to base ALL of their decisions, would be hypocritical, an act of denying God, a major sin.

When it comes to prayer, they would say that it would be foolish not to ask God's guidance through prayer. To not do so would be to court failure.

I don't see where any of these beliefs are too far outside of the mainstream, in religious circles anyway. This is why I'm having a hard time seeing where the problem is.

Posted by: Joel | September 2, 2008 10:59 PM

The problem with apocalyptic cults is that they tend to end apocalyptically.
I rather that this not happen to my country.

Posted by: elspi | September 2, 2008 11:07 PM

Greg, Bachmann was on Larry King last night saying Palin was qualified for VP because she sold a state plane on Ebay. She looked like a zombie.

Posted by: Tophe | September 2, 2008 11:43 PM

As I was reading this thread I was half watching the Republican Convention. There was a woman with dark, shoulder-length hair and an annoying voice talking. Talking about how nice Minnesotans are and how wonderful Republicans are. I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention. As the speaker left the stage, the voice over announcer named her: Michelle Bachmann.
Gawd. I hope Palin's voice isn't that grating.

Posted by: Gerry L | September 2, 2008 11:45 PM

I don't see where any of these beliefs are too far outside of the mainstream, in religious circles anyway. This is why I'm having a hard time seeing where the problem is.

Those beliefs might not be too far outside of mainstream in religious circles, but the US is not a religious circle. It is a nation composed of people who believe various religions, or none at all. The Christian God should have nothing to do with how we govern this nation, regardless of what the current president and VP believe.

Posted by: Emily | September 3, 2008 12:38 AM

Greg, you may want the check out Mudflats http://mudflats.wordpress.com/ , which is an excellent Alaska based blog, who has some great writing and lots of up-to-date information about Palin. Latest news is that apparently the future son-in-law will be at the GOP convention. Mudflats reaction to this this news speaks for most of us ,'It took me a while to get my palms off my face so I could check it out, but it�s true.'.

BTW, Framing Science http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/2008/09/did_the_far_left_blogs_turn_li.php is describing sites such as DailyKos as the 'far left blogosphere' - would anyone like to correct him on this?

Posted by: MikeB | September 3, 2008 5:41 AM

I don't see where any of these beliefs are too far outside of the mainstream, in religious circles anyway. This is why I'm having a hard time seeing where the problem is.

If she were a fundamentalist Muslim, would you be able to see the problem?

Posted by: Dunc | September 3, 2008 6:35 AM

Not only do apocalyptic cults end badly, but they run like crap in the meantime. Anyone that obsessed with the hereafter is not the best candidate for a job dealing with the here-and-now.

Posted by: Stephanie Z | September 3, 2008 7:08 AM

Nor do I see or read anything that would raise any Christian's eyebrows.

So you don't know any Christians at all, except American fundamentalist ones?

Because I have been to Catholic churches here in Europe a lot, grown up in two of them, and I'm flabbergasted by the first video.

The announcement, the first 2 1/2 minutes, look and sound like a speech at a party convention. If I didn't know better, I'd never have guessed that this is in a church. Yes, I know many American denominations do such things, but that's definitely not the first thing I'd have thought of.

Then Palin appears and continues in the exact same manner.

And immediately she mentions "it was so cool [...] gett'n saved here". She believes she is saved? She believes she will go to heaven, period? I know lots of fundamentalist Americans run around like that, but over here this would be seen as blasphemy, pure and simple. God alone knows if you'll go to heaven. Being baptized (which is what "born again" is interpreted as by everyone except the Baptists) gives you a chance to get saved, but no more.

Then she keeps making a purely political speech, except she mentions God too often. What is this doing in a church!?!

Till 4:12. Then she says it is God's will to get a pipeline built. First, to pretend to know God's will in any detail is considered utter blasphemy where I come from. Second, does she really believe God's will concerns such a detail, such a material affair that would fit Mammon better than God, such a bit of secular policy? Does she not know that His Kingdom is not of this world!?! Blasphemies upon blasphemies, I tell you.

Then she returns to her political speech, till 4:41, when she changes the topic back to religion again. Does she even listen to herself?

From there to 5:00 I finally get it: She is giving a political speech, and God is part of her policy. She's crazy. She's blasphemous (give to the emperor what is the emperor's, and to God what is God's -- who said that again?). And of course she's unconstitutional. Joel, if this wouldn't raise the eyebrows of the Christians you know, you must be a member of a very isolated cult -- or at least that's what the common European perspective would be.

Then she praises the Iraq war, that unconstitutional, money-burning crime. From 6:02 to 6:06 she says it is God's will. She's insane. Period. Whosoever hath eyebrows to raise, raise them.

Then she tells the audience they're so beautiful and that therefore they're going to be great missionaries... I'd feel embarrassed if I were in that audience.

Then she reads a quote from a Pauline letter that says the Christians of Ephesus in the 1st century would all be prophets, and she automatically takes this to mean that the Christians of Alaska in the 21st century will also all be prophets. She doesn't even try to justify this interpretation with a little context or anything. That's definitely on the risky side by the standards I grew up with.

The end is what I'd have expected of an American fundamentalist service, except for the prediction that in the end days lots of people from the lower 48 states will flee to Alaska. WTF? Where in the Bible is that?

-------------------------

You see, Joel, you have quite the tunnel vision.

Posted by: David Marjanović | September 3, 2008 8:54 AM

The Christian God should have nothing to do with how we govern this nation, regardless of what the current president and VP believe.

I agree, but can we really expect people to check their deeply held beliefs at the door? I think we can expect people to practice these beliefs in a way that respects the beliefs of others.

If she were a fundamentalist Muslim, would you be able to see the problem?

That would depend on the teachings of the Mosque and their leaders. But in general, I would say no.

David, I'll have to respond when I have more time.

Posted by: Joel | September 3, 2008 9:09 AM

Joel: The problem with fundementalism is that people believe things like the apocalypse is near, and when it happens, everyone is going to go to Alaska. In other words, no, we don't expect psychotic people to check their psychosis at the door, and no, we should not elect them to public office. Ever.

This is not about religion. It is about sanity.

Posted by: Greg Laden | September 3, 2008 9:14 AM

Someone who pretends to know the will of God and leads people using that pretend knowledge should never be in a position of power.

Posted by: jake | September 3, 2008 9:50 AM

I do see a problem with her attendeing a church that thinks everyone who isn't a bushie is going to hell!
Thank you for posting my video, BTW! I wanted to add that Sarah Palin's friend (or so she said) Has been stalking this video. She's been leaving some weird comments. Like;

For the record: I have known Gov. Palin for over 15+years. I personally attended Wasilla Assembly of God up until 2002. I can assure you as someone who was on Staff when Sara was Mayor of Wasilla, that the post of your video is as far from "The Truth" about Sara's personal relationship with God and her political views as you could possibly be.
She is a: Solid... God-Fearing Woman. Sara and husband Todd are some of the most admirable "servants in public service" that you will ever find!!!

This woman is just as crazy as Palin, what is in the water up in Wasilla?

Posted by: Angela Taylor | September 3, 2008 1:35 PM

Myers Mermel
A petition to Bishop Jeremiah J. Park to recover misused Church money

Dear Bishop Jeremiah J. Park:

Current and earlier events need the attention of your office because they will test the meaning of Christian values and of honor among Koreans.

Recently, you advocated, �No torture�, and with other religious luminaries you have marched to the United Nations to protest against the torture and abuse of suspected terrorists held at U.S. facilities in Guantanamo, Iraq, and Afghanistan. However, why did you not condemn the torture and abuse of the innocent members within your church?

Unwittingly it seems to appear the double standard of morality in the episcopacy as you overlooked the torture agony within a Methodist church.

In any event, the church should not be let alone in a Mafia image under your jurisdiction.

More specifically, Mr. Steve Park, and other church officers, had deliberately and consistently tortured and abused my family for many years while the church remained silent. He and his church underlings used the church�s name and trust fund to malign my family and me in order to rid of us from the church. It was to cover up the looting of the church money.

For instance, for one of the three frivoouls lawsuits, Mr. Park falsely accused my son and me that we planned to kill him, his family, his attorney, and other church members in one of his court depositions:

12 A �He said watch out, you asshole,
13 Specifically said you asshole, you watch out, if
14 You don�t watch your step; I�m going to kill you.
...
5 A �I�m going to kill your whole family.�
6 Q That�s what Dr. Sone said to you?
7 A �Yes.�
P. 62; 9-17, 21-23.
9 Q You�re claiming that Dr. Sone
10 threatened to kill you and your whole family?
11 A �Yes.�

Furthermore, he substantiated his assertion that more than 10 persons had witnessed our threats to murder. His witnesses included Reverend Wontae Cha, Y. S. Kim, K. D. Shin, Y. H. Lee, Y. J. Kim, D. J. Chun, Paul Choi, Y. J. Kwon, and I. C. Lee.

Rev. Cha is a good colleague of yours according to information.

Because of his false allegations, my son and I were on trial at the New York State Supreme Court in Nassau County. He used the church�s funds to finance his lawsuit against us. In his lawsuit, Mr. Park also demanded $4,000,000 in damages, while pushing us into the jail as felons.

His lawsuit had nothing to do with the church and was simply a personal vendetta against us. My only offense against Rev. Cha, Mr. Park and others was to strictly observe my fiduciary duty as the chairman of the Board to protect the church�s Building Fund. Nevertheless, according to the court records, officials from the church hierarchy and Steven Park had deceived the judge as if the case was a church-related during an ex-parte conference.

Now, Bishop Jeremiah J. Park must be responsible to identify the persons who were at the secretive meeting with the judge. He must investigate all and any conspiracy against the church and its members. The bishop�s actions matter much with the prestige of the episcopacy.

The year 2008 is the 87th anniversary of the Korean United Methoidst Church and Institute. Bishop Jeremiah J. Park, Reverend Won Tae Cha, Steven Park, Young So Kim and other such characters one day must come to the church and faithfully explain to the worshippers for the justification of the looting for either personal gain or criminal racketeering against the innocent loyal members.

The cowardly leadership owes an explanation to the fellow church members about the mismanagement of church finances: For example, an $180,000 building renovation contract lost for nothing. It only enriched the related parties. Or, another example when the chairman of the board of trustees embezzled $70,000 he is awarded with church money to pay for his legal fees and for part of his embezzlement. Also his faction paid the fines for the sanctions and the contempt of court with the trust fund although they had to pay. Another irony is Methoidst Mission Fund donated $50,000 to the trust as if an incentive to the looting

The judge and NYS Attorney General advised to recover the funds from the abusers. But, why anyone in the church leadership has done anything about these malfeasances?

Now, the time has come to your office to clarify the ultimate moral issues. On July 15, 2007, the church decided to hire a certified public accountant (excluding Korean CPA) to audit the church finances starting from year 2000. The audit is to determine if any fraud has occurred. But, since then, Reverend Chang, the current pastor, who is a friend of yours according to information, has not yet started it.

The church must recover the stolen funds from Mr. Park and the embezzlers. Perhaps, the church may file an insurance claim for the stolen funds so that the insurance company can compensate them. But, you, the bishop, must enforce church rules and order to help this church recover financially as well as morally. Otherwise, the church has no standing as �a light house� to the dark world.

Now, remember that any decent mind cannot allow our historic church to be built on the foundation of the age-old scandals, but on �the rock�. Most of all, the church should be liberated from evil capitulation still in power. If Mr. Park and others like him have succeeded to scapegoat the church scandals on an innocent family, then they would have said, �Halleluiah!!� The church should be maintained as a house of prayer, but a �den of robbers.� (Matthew 21; 13)

Without any further delay, you must recognize that the Korean United Methodist Church and Institute has been under the control of the spiritually-dead clergies and criminals who are filled with demons, falsehoods, hatreds, and deception. It does appear to be a moral crisis of the Korean Church, the NY Annual Conference, and, perhaps, the United Methodist denomination.

I am praying for your spiritual victory in good faith and for the renewal of our historic church. The Book of Discipline guarantees open meetings and free speech. Why can�t we have an open debate for the renewal at the church or a public media? The congregation wants your spiritual leadership as the bishop of the NY Annual Conference as well as the top church leader of the Korean immigrant Christian community.

Please let me remind your office that it is my duty and mission to continuously protect the church�s common interests, according to the church�s rules and the Christian teachings. That is my only way to seek justice and to restore our family name as I have learned from the church throughout my life.
Alas! The church is spiritually, morally broken as it is now.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Chae S. Sone and family

Please forward the e-mail petition to:
Reverend Jeremiah J. Park, Bishop
New York Annual Conference
White Plains, New York
e-mail address: Bishop@nyac.com

Reverend Chul Woo Chang
e-mail address: chang.kumci@gmail.com, OR WRITE TO
633 WEST 115TH STREET, NEW YORK, NY10025

Forward to our distinctuished spiritual leaders:

Media@RickWarrenNews.com
UMC: newsdesk@umcom.org.
NCC

Hillary Clinton (D)
senator@clinton.senate.gov
democraticparty@democrats.org democraticparty@democrats.org Obamainfo@friendsofmccain.com

Let us pray for the Bishop to do His will accordingly. Especially it is a wakeup call for Korean Christian community � It is a cyber age.

Posted by: chae s. sone | September 16, 2008 5:16 PM