Comments

  1. #1 Lilian Nattel
    February 7, 2009

    No-they’re wondering about your race. To them being Jewish is a racial identifier.

  2. #3 buzz
    February 7, 2009

    I wasted 3 seconds at the white racial and cultural preservation blog. I wonder if these guys would consider a crash course in Perceptual Other-Race Training?

  3. #4 aratina
    February 8, 2009

    I feel dirty after following that link. I think I understand the thread in your previous post on race categorization much better now. Actually, I’m disturbed at how closely the Republican/Fox talking points about race match the talking points about race on that blog.

  4. #5 khan
    February 8, 2009

    Somewhat orthogonal: I vaguely recall a genetic study from ~10 years ago where it was found various ‘white folks’ in Britain had rather recent ‘black ancestry’, apparently as a result of the Roman occupation. Roman legions were apparently an equal opportunity employer (as far as skin color and national origin).

  5. #6 Moopheus
    February 8, 2009

    “To them being Jewish is a racial identifier.”

    I think that used to be the way most people thought. I think if you went back in time and asked the average Anglo if Jews were the same race as he was, the answer would be no. (He might have to think a bit before answering the same question for Italians or the Irish.) I say Jews were only allowed to become white in the 1950s, and even then they had to change their name to get into the good schools and country clubs. All of which only points up the fluid and indeterminate nature of the idea of “race.”

  6. #7 SW
    February 8, 2009

    All this doesn’t matter. 6 billion people on earth. I want my stuff…I want to have fun and live…and yes there is not enough resources for everyone to have a great time.

    So its time to get with your people. Doesn’t matter what race…but we like people who are culturally like ourselves. Get with your people and try to win the resource game. Sharing is no fun…and again there is not enough to go around. Jewish poeple have done this with their establishment of Israel…why can’t everyone else? Seen any poor Jews lately?

  7. #8 Anton Mates
    February 8, 2009

    Seen any poor Jews lately?

    Um. Yes?

  8. #9 Greg Laden
    February 8, 2009

    Um. Yes?

    My first wife’s family was very poor and so was I. Is there a problem with that?

  9. #10 SW
    February 9, 2009

    “My first wife’s family was very poor and so was I.”

    No problem with that. Good to hear that Jews feel the sting of poverty as well.

    So since you were poor you know it sucks….and obviously have obtained resources for yourself…and won’t be giving them away to poor people anytime soon. And yes like-minded (culturally similar..not necessarily Jewish) people have given you the opportunities to do what you do…see it everyday…no Jewish person has ever offered me a job…or really no person other than someone like myself (a white Anglo dude) has ever offered me anything. So I see it less as a race game and more as people around the world trying to win the resource game and finding other like-minded people to help them win. It will be a cold day in hell when the people of South Africa or Zimbabwe say “we lack diversity…let’s elect a white man president”. Or an Israeli says “we lack diversity let’s elect a Christian president”. Everybody wants to win…but people of European culture are despised for having actally won most of the fun in the past…and who knows…with this little blip in history aside….maybe they will win in the future. I don’t blame you for fighting against that culture….but don’t blame that culture when it fights back against you.

  10. #11 Greg Laden
    February 9, 2009

    Who have given me opportunities? I must have missed that.

    Interesting rules you have set up about who gets to fight whom when. You get to be exclusionary and ethnocentric, and you get to accuse others of being so, but no one can say this about you or in any other way question you.

    Good luck with that plan.

  11. #12 SW
    February 9, 2009

    Man….is that all you got…I came over here because PZ Myers is always giving you a nod….undeserved.

    “Who have given me opportunities? I must have missed that”
    … that is a dismissal…never a good argument

    “You get to be exclusionary and ethnocentric..but no one can say this about you or in any way question you”

    ….what?!….I wish

    “Good luck with that plan”

    …another weak dismissal

    @#$% I guess it is true….I am being discriminated against…I can reason better than that…and so where is my University Professor post?

    Umm back to Mr. Zimmer’s science blog…more fair minded and less knee jerk.

  12. #13 Stephanie Z
    February 9, 2009

    Why is it that the people who make such a big deal of taking their toys and going home are always the ones who brought the saddest, dingiest toys to the party in the first place?

  13. #14 Greg Laden
    February 9, 2009

    I think the operative phrases here are “Knee” and “Jerk.”

    Stephanie, what kind of troll was that? A “I got a recommendation that did not work out” troll?

  14. #15 the real Baruch Goldstein
    February 9, 2009

    but you gotta admit it: he is right about the fact that it will be a cold day in sheol before Israel elects a leader that is anything other than a nepotistic, pro-Jewish
    anti-other-semitic racist leader…

  15. #16 Stephanie Z
    February 9, 2009

    Greg, like a recommendation from PZ was going to suggest that he’d find what he was looking for. That was gratuitous sniping on the way out. Not even real trolling.

    Real, Israel is young and was forged in fear. Give them some time.

  16. #17 the real WTF?
    February 9, 2009

    Oh, I see Steph: kind of like a young America, and all of those heathen injuns circlin’ da wagons?

    Nope, not buying it. A short trip down Judeo-memory lane (lets just go back a couple 6500 years for now) shows us that Israel has always been a mess of racist, ethnocentric, disturbed paranoiac peoples attacking each other and even their own kinfolks at slight provocation. I mean, what is the whole religion if not an organized excuse to attack others in a “pre-emptive, defensive” manner?

  17. #18 SW
    February 9, 2009

    “troll”

    that is an ad hominem argument…again not a good reasoning style.

    Please read some Carl Sagan ..Demon Haunted World and learn effective argumentation techniques. Sagan was a Jew too…but at least one I respected.

  18. #19 Stephanie Z
    February 9, 2009

    Real, are you really trying to tell me that there’s any group on this planet that should be judged by what it was doing 6,500 years ago? Dude, come on.

    And maybe a little like a young America, but a younger one than that, when the colonists didn’t get that you can’t fight religious persecution with religious persecution.

  19. #20 Stephanie Z
    February 9, 2009

    Oh, yes, SW, your respect is such a motivator.

  20. #21 Prozium
    February 9, 2009

    I see nothing wrong with being “exclusionary” and “ethnocentric.”

  21. #22 the real Baruch Goldstein
    February 9, 2009

    Steph, Greg et al: be nice to SW, he is obviously new to adult language, science, or discussion. Maybe he/she is a ten year old.

    Steph: “Real, are you really trying to tell me that there’s any group on this planet that should be judged by what it was doing 6,500 years ago?”

    It isn’t the 6500 years AGO that is the issue, it is the RIGHT NOW factor. That has never changed. WW1&2 were wars of Marxist capital formation for the explicit purpose of recreating Israel in all of its racist,religion based glory.

    We aren’t talking about ANY religion here: we are talking about the paternoster–the one that has set the trend for religions to be tools of racial purity based killing, discrimination,and death. Those silly murderous Christians and Islamics just adopted the model.

    And it isn’t “any” grouop either, but a group that claims the fanatic right to being THE chosen people–not just “people like the rest of them”. That kind of paves the way for my statement that Israel is just a new century like the old ones, with the same beliefs.

    I mean, we aren’t talking about whether or not we can eat catfish, cast off our yamulkas and straw wigs, or work on Sundays here, we are talking about religion as an excuse to maim, defame, murder, and co-opt lands and other resources–not least of which are resources of public discussion; the conflating of “anti-semitism” with every issue– in the name of G-d.

    That hasn’t changed in 6500 years, Steph.

    For instance, bushmen, Celtic Druids, cow loving Jains, or Navajo shamans for the most part didn’t form a UN based on the idea of one world government, with an almost exclusive purpose of upholding the right of one religion to hold state power, and be overlooked for its indiscretions against others.

    Imagine for instance, “crimes of scale” where we could employ the World court to prosecute war crimes in a non-sectarian manner. The scale would be “Milosevich was a beast, and killed lots of people”, cast against a scale like “Henry Kissinger, Paul Wolfowitz killed many more.”

    Those two bozos make Milosevic look like a choir boy.

  22. #23 khan
    February 9, 2009

    I think we have anti-Semite bingo.

  23. #24 the real kublai
    February 9, 2009

    khan is that for me? I don’t know–does “I am part Jewish” count in your game, or must I be another self-soothing ethnocentric f#ck, or a yacademic with a jew-pandering attitude to count?

  24. #25 the real Baruch Goldstein
    February 9, 2009

    khan: here is the bingo—>”conflating of “anti-semitism” with every issue– in the name of G-d.”

  25. #26 Greg Laden
    February 9, 2009

    SW: Please don’t ever get confused on this one. I am perfectly comfortable making an “ad hominem” remark about an anti-Semite such as yourself. Why in the world would I not do that? Jeezzhh…

    I will add that I trust and respect the government of Israel and almost every single historically documented leader among the Israelites as far as I can throw Mount Sinai, which is not very far. Which has nothing to do with antisemitism.

    I see nothing wrong with being “exclusionary” and “ethnocentric.” OK, I’ll bite. Why?

    The Real Barack: WW1&2 were wars of Marxist capital formation for the explicit purpose of recreating Israel in all of its racist,religion based glory.

    Explicit purpose? If there was a secret plan, maybe, but I don’t think Hitler, The Kaiser, Churchill, Whomever ever suggestd anything like this. My reading of this history is that Israel was a European afterthought at best.

    BTW, I can vouch for The Real Golda Meir here being not anti-semitic.

  26. #27 the real Baruch Goldstein
    February 9, 2009

    G: yeah, I just like to see the look on their face when I drop the jew cards in the matzo flour.

    Well, explicit might be a bit too general, but the idea is about the founding fathers of the 1913 federal reserve act, and all of those “German” capitalists and back door deals that went in to effect to motivate the hillbillies of Apalachia into going to war and dying in Yerup.

    We can’t forget how England, was influenced by those infamous redshields in parliament, or Barney Barnato diamonds from apartheid in S. Africa…

    Sure, its fashionable to always say that “international capitalists” are at fault for wars, but in those days, there was a big push for oil–and a question about who had the ‘right’ to conquer oil pumping nations–and Palestine looked like a good foothold, with a group of folks who claimed a ‘right’ to it. A footnote then, sure, but an exclamation point today.

    The fashion is always to say that the mysterious “International Capitalists” are to blame for everything, and to particularly point to the known suspects amongst the goyim–Rockefeller, todays carlysle group, et al, but it is also explicit that one not mention the Jewish members of that elite group of ‘conspirators’. So I am just emphasizing the fact that Judeo incepted crimes against humanity get a pass, rather than an emphasis.

    A great example of this would be to contrast what Jewish Hollywood producers routinely do with chronicles of Italian mobsters–even National Geographic picked up on the trend.

    While we laugh at and mock Henry Fords crude portrayal of the “Elders of Zion,” meeting in clandestine quarters or the blatant capitalist misuse of the press by the goy (Citizen Kane), Hollywood kicks out identical mocking portrayals in films about the klan, or Italian gangsters who meet in secret to take over the world in their own diabolical ways.

    All the while overlooking Rupert Murdochs crimes against free speech, or minimizing Gaza, and the nuclear threat of Israel today.

    Maybe tacit would be a better word there– but “explicit” is meant only as far as that “we knew the deal then” and minimized it, making it to me at least, explicit.

    Its about the 13′s, man;-)

  27. #28 llewelly
    February 11, 2009

    Bingo? The only box – out of 25 on my sheet – which I have not yet filled due to posts by ‘the real Baruch Goldstein’ is the one labeled ‘Poster believes Third Reich still rules Antarctica, from which Goering still launches flying saucers.’

  28. #29 the real Baroke Levy for llewelly
    February 11, 2009

    llewelly:

    Edward Said, and his discussion in “Orientalism” about how the social constructs of “bad Palestinian” and “evil Oriental” were created in order to reinforce your Judeo-Christian Orientalization and oppression of “other” people would fill your card on three sentences out of his mouth, so your card is rigged anyways.

    Conflation anyone? Or more inflation if you don’t go along with the Judeo-Christian oppression game…

    “”The question to be asked is how long can the history of anti-semitism and the Holocaust be used as a fence to exempt Israel from arguments and sanctions against it for its behavior towards the Palestinians, arguments and sanctions that were used against other repressive governments, such as South Africa? How long are we going to deny that the cries of the people of Gaza… are directly connected to the policies of the Israeli government and not to the cries of the victims of Nazism?”

    -Edward Said, Politics Of Dispossession (1994)