Posted by Greg Laden on January 19, 2010 This is bible thumpers breaking military rules, US law, and endangering the troops.
The war profiteers who do this admit it, and retorts that those who do not like the bible references printed on US military hardware are “not Christians.” Presumably this means that their complaints are irrelevant.
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“Our verses” What do you mean “we”, Kimosabe?
The rainbow and pink panties comment reveals a person insecure about his own sexuality, I think.
@Protector – You said that “Maybe they have “Allah is great” stamped on their AK-47s. If that is true, then we have the right to fight back with our own verses.”
I’m sorry, but that’s not true. First, there’s no fighting going on with those words. Even considering a battle for minds, you’re not going to convert anyone. It will likely have the opposite effect. Second, soldiers do NOT have that right. They are all under standing, legal, orders not to proselytize which the use of these scopes may well put them in violation of.
The rainbow comment DID remind me of that soldier who was awakened by a call to post. He didn’t have time to get his uniform on, so he scrambled with combat gear wearing not much more than his red boxers with pink hearts(or was it the other way around? No matter). I suspect that if a solider showed up with a scope painted as a rainbow, my reaction would have been about the same as to that other soldier: respectfully amused.
Disgusting is the only word I can think for it.
P. P. (and your initials are childishess apt) i hope for your sake you’re a poe.
Really, because otherwise you’re in the wrong century & country.
The US government is not a christian government and there is no state religion. So why are some filthy christians trying to heap their crap on everyone else?
@’pp’: You’ve obviously never served in the armed forces, so shut the hell up you pretentious toy patriot. Soldiers do not enjoy all the freedoms that a civilian does; a soldier cannot easily refuse deployment and a soldier is not allowed to push any religion (among numerous other limitations imposed on members of the armed forces). A soldier can read his/her own bible as long as doing so does not interfere with other duties. You should ask the muslim soldiers about their routine – because I seriously doubt they’re given time to face Mecca and chant when in the field or even when on a base that’s on high alert.
I wonder if they use any of these verses:
http://www.cracked.com/article_15699_the-9-most-badass-bible-verses.html
WWJS?
Whom Would Jesus Shoot?
@10 troll failed
This is all very disappointing, but at the same time it certainly strengthens my Buddhist faith. And my thankfulness that I didn’t re-up, all those years ago. I thought it was the Constitution I’d sworn to protect, not one side of a sectarian pissing match.
While it is completely true that I am totally opposed to Christianity (and all other ancient superstitions), I find it highly ironic that Patroit Protector doesn’t even realize that he is a perfect embodiment of the American Taliban.
It’s all very good that PP wants to turn his own country into a theocracy where bearded old men quote and justify their barbaric inhumanity from one old book… maybe then the taliban will have enough of a common ground with his “america” to sue for peace. Doubt it would be less “disease-infested” though, judging by how rampant they were in religious previous and current societies.
PP, you are a sad, sad little man.
America is not and never will be a christian country. It may be majority christian, but that does not make it a theocracy.
George Washington would probably weep if he saw what you’d said.
Keep your filthy theocracy out of my democracy. This is a country for all Americans, not just the ones that agree with you.
And you might want to adjust the time in your head. It’s 2009, not 1950 or 1200.
And yes, fundamentalists and teabaggers are approaching the level of evil and regression and authoritarianism that is the Taliban.
I have a special hate in my black, black heart for people as dumb as far-right-wingers.
Just wond’ring if PP is really Sarah Palin. Gee Greg, you sure pick up a few good trolls.
It’s always so much fun to see someone who calls themselves a patriot whose argument boils down to “Fuck the First Amendment.”
@Stephanie Z: Yeah, it’s the usual religious nonsense. If you’re not 100% in favor of some religious cult ruling the country (and there are hundreds if not thousands of cults in the USA), you must be a satanic Stalinist conspirator. Even in the catholic church, if you don’t bow down to the clergy and accept their nonsense you “reject god”. I can just imagine Amenhotep saying such things: “you won’t listen to me? You’re rejecting god!” Oh, forget Amenhotep – the last Italian Inquisition only ended about 130 years ago. The delusional love to call any resistance to their delusion a rejection of some god or other – as if there were some sort of mandate by that same imaginary friend that we must somehow be servile to his delusional prophets.
I’m wondering what would happen if a soldier decided to use a dremmel tool to replace the inscription on their sight. RD2:31 comes to mind 
This is great!
But they need to engrave the quote from Pulp Fiction
EZ25:17
Ezekiel 25:17: The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the Valley of Darkness; for he is truly his brother’s keeper, and the finder of lost children. And, I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers! And, you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!
I would like to see whatever Pentagon entity it was that awarded this contract to Trijicon force Trijicon to replace these scopes at their cost. Of course this would likely bankrupt Trijicon and we’d have to bail’em out with TARP money. Did they think they were so clever that no one would notice these references? Did they consider the reaction of Afghan and Iraqi troops armed with these weapons and working side by side with Americans once it did come out? What a bunch of morons! Like Rachel said: Enjoy your war profits
Patriot Protector, sir,
Put down your bible for a minute and consult your old English composition 101 text; you’re embarrassing yourself.
I love people like Patriot Protector. It’s always the batshit ultra-patriot-wannabes that have never actually been in the service they claim to love so much. If they ever had been, they’d know the actual rules and regs they made the rest of us learn. They’re always damned sure they know them, but they’re never right. And I can’t imagine any of us being that ignorant of the rules without regularly getting into trouble.
Of course they deny history, geography, most of the Constitution, and any kind of science that makes them uneasy, so why not deny the existence of rules that do the same.
Frankly, I find it scary that somewhere in the U.S. Defense Department some committee/purchasing department/group agreed to contract for these scopes, and that no follow-up prevented this. People like PP in these comments seem more prevalent since sometime in the Bush years–or just more noticeable? But they seem to be more extant and powerful on the national scene lately.
If I had to choose an engraving, I’d use either 2 Mo 20:13 or 5 Mo 5:17. Or maybe Luke 6:29.
wrpd, you impugne his honour, Sir!
No, Patriot Protector is completely at ease with himself, how else could be bestride the aisles of Walmart like a patriotic sexual tyrannosaur, mullet blazing with the glory of the LORD and clad only in a rainbow cloak and pink panties?
There is no difference between PP and the Taliban. He is they. They are he. Ignorant, fundamentalist, superstitious, hate-filled, and violent. The funny part is that neither understands that they would likely get along swimmingly with each other. PP and Mullah Omar… birds of a feather.
WHOA! You all are missing the true nature of these symbols, which come straight out of MAGIC! Placing these codes on sights is no different than the shaman (or priest) shaking a sacred bundle over a speer or club, or dipping your sword in sacrificial blood, or any other act of magic. The belief is that the WORDS will either protect the weapon’s user or transfer magical powers on the sight/bullet (in the case of Christianity, the power of God or Jesus) to kill the enemy. It’s a request for a supernatural being to help the soldier kill people – PRETTY DISGUSTING…
@ 33 The nutjobs who made these scopes didn’t advertise the hidden bible verse fact. Based on pictures I’ve seen, they look like serial numbers or whatever. I’m not one to defend Pentagon procurement, but I can’t really fault them for not looking for hidden bible verses on gun scopes.
Now what was/is being done about it when it comes to light is a different story.
I personally do not see a problem with this, Trijicon makes excellent optics, and I have personally used in combat, so unless you have worn the uniform or in some form or fashion assisted in the defense of this country, stop winning. If you don’t like it, there are many countries in this world, find one and move there.
Sincerely
U.S Army Airborne Ranger, Retired.
@Jim
so you hate free speech?
@Jim: Which country’s laws were you fighting for? Certainly not America’s.
Ok…not currently wearing the uniform, but I can get one out of the dryer if it makes you feel better. I personally see a problem with this.
Oh wait you want a reason I have a problem with it? Fine, it makes every soldier’s job harder. Now you have to convince the locals that even though the US government has bible quotes on their equipment, we really really aren’t crusaders. We are actually here to help and aren’t trying to destroy your religion and culture. Let me just get out of the way that I’m not talking about convincing the jihadists, I’m talking about the regular man and woman on the street that are risking their lives if they decide to back us over the terrorists.
U.S. Army Infantry, Active.(Not that I think it actually makes my point more relevant.)
Laen, thank you for your insightful comments, and your service.
Jim, fuck off, I’d rather not have your “protection.”
Jim,
Free Speech, brother. Free speech. That’s just one of the things you were defending. (if in fact you aren’t lying about your service)
Douche bag!
(see, there’s that free speech again!)
It looks like there are a lot of people who like to pick and choose what they believe out of the history books. Let’s take “War” for example, throughout the history of mankind, we as humans have been fighting each other. Entire races and civilizations have been wiped off the face of the earth, but one thing remained constant, until recent history. “There was a clear winner and a looser”. The Korean War is when Politicians got involved and started dictating how soldiers fight battles and tried to make “War” pretty. “Winning the Hearts & Minds” was a 60’s phrase during the Vietnam War, again more restrictions on how solders fight battles. In today’s military, every branch of service has to fight with one hand tied behind their backs and even then they can’t shoot until fired upon. War is ugly and innocent people get hurt, but that’s just the way it is. You can’t build hospitals and schools until your enemy is defeated.
With that said, if we are in a War on Terrorism, then you should put your focus on getting your Politicians out of the business of War and let the soldiers do their jobs and crush your enemies buy whatever means is necessary. And not give a shit if a rifle scope has a bible verse as part of its serial number.
And to let you in on another secret, “You cannot change an entire civilization no matter how hard you try, or how nice you are, or how much you give them, when they have been living the same way for 3,000 years”.
As for the First Amendment and I say again “First Amendment” not “Second” was placed in the Constitution ”NOT” to protect you from burning the American Flag or to grip about something as trivial as the Trijicon company embedding Bible verses into its serial numbers. But to give you a voice against oppression, unfair taxes, laws against individuals based on race, religion, sex.
The 1st amendment gives you the right to gripe about anything you want… douche bag!
Why is it that so many military types are so anti-American?
I’ve read several history books on Afghanistan, if you think pissing off the local, non-terrorist, population is going to let you win the war against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, you are an idiot. The Soviets couldn’t cow them with poisoned wells, explosives in children’s dolls, and burning villages to the ground. Unless you plan on trying to top that…
Laen being a clear exception!
Jim[46]: It is not even close to true that there is a clear winner in every war except recently. The vast majority of wars with historical documentation had ambiguous endings and shady beginnings.
I think you might be a psychopath. You should have that looked at.
Jim [47]
Are you selectively reading the First Amendment to ignore the Establishment clause, or did was it too long and you did not get that far?
(…. hmmmm…. that could work as a tee-shirt)
Did your History books also state that 80% of the weapons, ammunition, anti-tank\aircraft weapons, food, water, transportation, intelligence on the Soviets, tactical leadership, and the list goes on, was provided by the USA? Yep, again we pick and choose what we want to read and believe in our history books. But the catch-22 is, the same weapons are now being used against American soldiers.
As for military personnel being anti-American is not even close to the truth, in fact we are just the opposite, we support our military 110% Personally I got fed up with the political BS, my soldiers getting shot at and cannot return fire because some bastard is hiding behind a woman or he is inside a mosque and we cannot shoot back because it will upset the Americans back home and CNN is right there in your face ready to brand you murderer as you know we have to keep everyone happy.
As for military personnel being anti-American is not even close to the truth, in fact we are just the opposite, we support our military 110%
It scares me that you have no idea how disturbing that statement is. Pro-military is the opposite of anti-American? The Founding Fathers weep.
Jim, yes, there are a fair number of soldiers like you. But we do our job anyway.
As for military personnel being anti-American is not even close to the truth, in fact we are just the opposite, we support our military 110%
Then why do you support some company putting unnecessary language on rifle scopes that could endanger soldiers lives?
It scares me that Jim is a member of a military intelligence unit.
It makes me laugh that his entire unit is deployed long term in state-side locations and unless he transfers to a different unit he’ll never see combat.
Paul you should be afraid, very, very afraid, but not of me. Your worry should be focused on all the people in this country that have the mind set of “something for nothing”. Give me food stamps, welfare, free medical care, free everything because I am to sorry of a human, to even try and support myself. And we have to keep those people happy, why? Hell, we have to keep everyone happy!! Because they are voters!
I own a home with 12 acres that I work my ass off to keep and take care of, and I pay all my taxes without fail. I served my country for over 23 years, I volunteer at the local school and support a majority of the events that happen in the community where I now live, yet you call me un- American….. My I ask what you have accomplished in your life time?
Did Jim really just say he’s pissed that he’s not allowed to shoot female noncombatants?
Paul you should be afraid, very, very afraid, but not of me. Your worry should be focused on all the people in this country that have the mind set of “something for nothing”. Give me food stamps, welfare, free medical care, free everything because I am to sorry of a human, to even try and support myself. And we have to keep those people happy, why? Hell, we have to keep everyone happy!! Because they are voters!
I’d much rather put up with your straw-people than someone who complains that they are not supposed to shoot innocents. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Jim,
You haven’t a clue as to what patriot means. Your words and attitude are unAmerican. You are no patriot. If you own an American flag, please take it down. You are not worthy.
yet you call me un- American….
Oh, and I never called you un-American. I called you out on implying pro-military is the opposite of anti-American. That statement is fascist, plain and simple. And with that said, I now have no problem with calling you “un-American”.
Oops… forgot to add:
You horrible little man.
And Fernando, thinking that any of that (well, I can’t speak for the pot) is going on here is also not patriotism. It’s delusion. If you actually want to live in the real U.S. that you claim to love, I suggest getting some help. A cable remote would probably even help.
In the meantime, if you love your country so much as is, why do you want us to leave?
I’m betting that Fernando turns out to be a Perfect Patriot sock-puppet.
@Perfect Patriot
Then you must hate Sweden (The Prime Minister is an atheist)
some of the weapons USA is using comes from Sweden
I’m betting that Fernando turns out to be a Perfect Patriot sock-puppet.
Try:
Hetero Erectus
Breeder with a Boner
Evolution Denier
Patriot Protector
Guardian of the Poll
Loopy Larry
Illegal FEMA camp prisoner #3445781A
Perfect Patriot
Fernando
Little Brother of the Troll family
A veritable troop of sock puppets from Madison Wisconsin.
Huh. Greg, I think that means you really only get one majorly whacked-out right-wing-radical commenter on this site.
First of all, there is no law prohibiting soldiers from having bible verse abbreviations hidden in the serial numbers an 1/8″ big on the side of their optics. Chaplins wear Christian and other religions insignia on their uniforms, medics wear large red crosses (which is far more overt than JN8:16), and servicemembers’ dogtags have their religion (or lack of) stamped on them. It is not in violation of general order number one. It comes down to the fact that this is a tradition of a private company that makes very good quality optics. The tradition has been around far longer than the war on terror. I doubt anyone refuses to drink Jaeger because there is a cross on the label, so I don’t see how tiny serial numbers should make such a big deal.
Mark,
It’s all about perception. (and the first amendment!) The United States government should not be purchasing overtly Christian products. If the company that makes the scopes was owned by a person of the Muslim faith and there was Islamic scripture on all the scopes… how do you think these same folks defending this company would feel then? All our boys in uniform carrying around weapons extolling the virtues of Muhammad and Islam! Yeah, that’d go over just swell!
Excuse me? – dangerous to American troops? – aren’t rifles more dangerous to the poor buggers on the other end?
Excuse me? – dangerous to American troops?
Yes. And American civilians. We’re gift wrapping evidence that America is fighting a holy war against Islam, whether or not it’s true. It’s just like when Bush referred to the war as a crusade. It definitely doesn’t help our soldiers, and gives people more reason to want to kill us. What’s so hard to understand?
We are fighting a Holy War and it’s been going on since the Persians invaded Greece / The Greeks (Alexander) invaded the orient. And the Rome / Carthage love fest, and invasions of Europe by Huns, Mongols, Arabs: the Crusaders’ invasion of Palestine and the destruction of the Ottoman Empire and resulting cutting up of the Middle East by France and the British, and the war that’s been going on since. There has ALWAYS been a Holy War between the West and the East: we just keep it going, and going and going because “human being” only know one way to solve problems. KILL EACH OTHER..
We are fighting a Holy War and it’s been going on since the Persians invaded…
I think you don’t know what a holy war is.
There has ALWAYS been a Holy War between the West and the East: we just keep it going, and going and going because “human being” only know one way to solve problems. KILL EACH OTHER..
If by Holy War you mean “tension”, then maybe, but no more so than between any other hazily defined groups.
Looks like Trijicon got the message.
Draft everyone. Tax everything to pay for the wars. I want my granddaughter to have an equal chance to be put at risk with the daughters of Pres. Obama. Tax to pay for wars. We used to pay for our wars. Now we are having China finance our wars.
If it’s worth doing, this war on terrorism, it’s worth sacrifice. Sacrifice on everyone’s part. The same objections I had to Vietnam (and I was there as a Marine in 69/70) apply today. We aren’t being asked to drive less, give up meat, stop drinking beer, etc. There are no war profits taxes, no one is forced to give up their job or their position of power in persuit of a greater national interest.
This all means that the American public (and rightly so) regards the war on terror as a farce. The only inconvenience the war causes them is a long wait at the airport while grandma gets checked for explosives. It’s going to inconvenience my grandchildren and yours as well.
I could rant forever about why references to bible verses on rifle sites (that will also be used by Muslims) are a bad idea. The Pashtun, just to name one ethnic group are not unintelligent or even ignorant about the bible. No need to get this to be a Christianity vs Islam struggle or our grandchildren’s grandchildren will still be fighting.
Yet, nobody is screaming about “In God we Trust” on money. Typical LIEberal nonsense.
General David Petraeus also addressed the scopes this morning, calling the matter “disturbing and a serious concern for me.”
yeah, just those damn LIEberals agin…..
bottom line, folks, is whether we want this war to go on forever…..if so, by all means, try real hard to piss off the locals, friendly as well as hostile.
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