I did this thing:
A few notes:
Ross Olsen is a retired physician who is a principle player in our local Young Earth creationist group, which produces the local creation science fair (this search will get you most of my posts on that).
When I said second amendment I meant first amendment. But maybe I was really thinking about … oh, never mind.
My intent was not to debate Evolution, although Ross clearly had a different idea in mind. Ross was asked to this discussion by the producers after they (the producers) contacted me to talk about Bill Nye’s comments. Then, they (the producers) needed to find a creationist so I suggested that they contact the Twin Cities Creation Science Association, they did, and this is how they came to invite Ross. I mention this because the more typical scenario is that the evolutionary biologist is set up for a debate they weren’t expecting. That is not what happened here.
Originally we were supposed to focus on Bill Nye’s statement that people who think that the world is less than 10,000 years old need to re-examine their religious beliefs. Here are my thoughts on that particular question, apropos the longer term and larger scale critique of the critique of the critique of the critique of Bill Nye’s video:
Bill is wrong for two reasons:
- First, people need to reconsider their understanding of their own religion, not rethink their beliefs. If you want to believe that the world is less than 10,000 years old, fine, but if you are Catholic, for example, you need to know that you are a member of a religion that does not think that. Most people in America are members of a religion that don’t subscribe to the Young Earth form of creationism, and in fact, many generally accept the scientific understanding of evolution with a little god sprinkled in here and there. So, you don’t need to reconsider your beliefs, but rather, you need to quit the religion you are currently a member of and join a different one.
- Second, as a scientist I don’t want to tell people about their religions (as an Anthropologist I’m happy to do that now and then, of course). People who think the earth is less than 10,000 years old need to reconsider not their religious beliefs, but rather, their scientific literacy and more broadly, their own credulity. We have tee ring sequences that extend back to before 10,000 years, forchristakes.
And when I say “wrong” I mean I agree with him. Of course.
- It is worth noting that there really are very few people in the US who are true Young Earthers. The poll indicated (see below) is misleading. If you take people to a nice natural history museum and show them interesting stuff about geology and fossils and so on, and ask them if they think the earth was created in six days in the year 4004BC, they will generally say no. If you had asked the same exact people if they take the Bible as literally true, without going into details, a large number of them will say yes. It all depends on how you ask the question, and on what people are specifically afraid of (looking stupid vs. enraging a vengeful god).
- The combined number of people who believe in Bigfoot, Aliens being among us and the Loch Ness Monster is probably greater than the number who, when pressed, actually believe in the 6 days at 4004 BC version of creationism. And, it is more likely that Bigfoot exists. Marginally.
- I was also hoping to say this: Evolutionists do not insist that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. We don’t care how old the Earth is. We’ll work with whatever facts are established. It’s the Physicists who are telling us how old the earth is, and they are using the same subset of Physics that are used to make nuclear power plants work pretty well most of the time, to operate the nuclear navy that keeps us safe from our foes, and that allows the use of nuclear medicine which is so important in diagnosis and cure of disease and disorder. If the physicists are wrong about the age of the earth then we need to have an urgent conversation with the engineers at the nuclear power plant, the Joint Chiefs, and the local hospital administrators.
Now, on to the Gallup Poll. Here are a few summary facts. The original is here.
First, a baseline. For the poll in June 2007,
Evolution, that is, the idea that human beings developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life: True – 53%, False – 44%
Creationism, that is, the idea that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years: True – 66% False – 31%
So, a majority of people think based on that poll that Evolution is true. And, a majority of people think that Creationism is true.
Gallop provides a graph that summarizes a slightly different way of asking the question:
Bottom line: Most people “believe in” evolution in the US, though many take a theistic view of some kind or another.