The Unending Kwok

I thought I was being a nice guy by not blocking John Kwok the moment he tried to friend me on Facebook. But that was a mistake.

At first, there was only the occasional strange note from him via Facebook “email.” But then, several hours ago, the dam broke and the Kwok just poured in. The following “conversation” is probably not work safe, and do make sure you are not drinking coffee while you read it. If you dare. And have a lot of free time.

KwokNeverending

He stopped as soon as I mentioned my friend in the CIA. Figures.

One final word on this subject, courtesy of my friend PZ Myers:

For those who can not read that graphic, here is a transcript:

John Kwok
Am relieved you haven’t commented yet on the probable legal fortunes of your friend in Morris, MN. I wouldn’t bet on him getting away with this nonsense this time, not least because the person he has accused is far more credible than he has ever been. Should he lose maybe he might consider seppuku with a rusty knife.

2:45pm
Greg Laden
That comment was out of line. I recommend you shut up staring right now.

2:48pm
John Kwok
No, I don’t think so not least because you had aided and abetted that silly cracker stunt. He “graduated” from that to attack a lot of credible people, including the likes of Chris Mooney, Sheril Kirshenbaum, Michael De Dora, Nick Matzke, and now Michael Shermer. If he had proof with regards to Shermer, he should have had it brought to the police, not by writing such a venomous blog replete in statements that can be deemed as constituting libel.

2:49pm
John Kwok
I was joking about the Leica M rangefinder camera demand which he and his fans still obsess about, but if he loses to Sherrmer – and I think he will – then he will owe me that camera.

2:50pm
Greg Laden
I distinctly remember telling you to shut up a few minutes ago. Shut up, John.

2:52pm
John Kwok
No I won’t Greg. I’ll be one of many who will relish watching him get what he deserves from Shermer and his attorneys. As someone else told me, he’s a sick little man. Someone else asked me if he was crazy and I said he’s certified.

2:52pm
Greg Laden
Perhaps I should rephrase this. Stop sending me Facebook messages. Stop doing that this very second. Not one more message from you. Stop now.

2:53pm
John Kwok
Myers is a nobody, a narcissistic blowhard with delusions of grandeur who will be getting his just desserts. That’s it Greg. Not a further word from me.

2:54pm
Greg Laden
OMG I can’t believe you sent me another Facebook message.

2:56pm
John Kwok
OMG I can’t believe you answered it. Let’s face it. Shermer has been around the block much longer than Myers and was a friend of Gould and, I believe, Sagan too. In the court of public credibility that counts a lot more than silly wafer stunts or claiming that Kwok wants a Leica rangefinder camera from me.

2:58pm
Greg Laden
John, stop.

3:00pm
John Kwok
Greg, you stop. Compared to your goddamned friend, Shermer is a saint. I’ve been in touch with some very credible leaders in the secular humanist and atheist movements who look forward to seeing Myers getting what he deserves from Shermer. IMHO it’s long overdue too.
Today

12:08am
Greg Laden
Shut. Up.
Today

7:43am
John Kwok
I’ll have the last word here. I didn’t know Dawkins had disowned your pal Hagar the Horrible a few years ago. That’s great news. Hopefully everyone else who is player in secular humanism and atheism will recognize your friend for the malignancy he is and give him his just do.

8:21am
John Kwok
Actually, I’ll let Massimo Pigliucci have the last word here:

http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2013/05/pz-myers-quits-skeptic-movement-should.html

I’ve discussed your buddy with him in the past, though not in person. We’ve had far more important things to talk about than your pal’s juvenile insolence bordering on psychosis.
This attachment may have been removed or the person who shared it may not have permission to share it with you.

8:36am
Greg Laden
John, stop with this nonsense.
Today

12:57pm
John Kwok
You should have told PZ that after the wafer incident. Instead he boldly goes on committing more insane acts in the cause of both skepticism and atheism. No wonder why he’s still obsessed with my threat that he should give me a Leica M7 rangefinder camera – not really him, but Dembski is the one who should give me one – and so too are his fans. They all need to pay a visit to Bellevue here in NYC, though I am sure there are suitable mental health facilities for them to attend to their needs. IMHO the best thing to happen to PZ would be getting financially knocked out by Shermer and his LA-based legal eagles. I’ll be watching with ample expectations. This should be fine for PZ since he prides himself on being a student of gladiatorial combat. (Not to mention his own Norse heritage.)

1:05pm
John Kwok
And as for nonsense, Greg, I think people recognize who is the one spouting nonsense, which is why “The Happy Atheist” isn’t selling all that well over at Amazon. Don’t worry, I won’t read it nor will I review it at Amazon or GOODREADS. I have to catch up with reading John Crowley, Kim Stanley Robinson (I heard both at a talk they gave at MOMA/PS 1), my friend Gary Shteyngart’s debut novel, etc. etc.

1:15pm
John Kwok
Speaking of “The Happy Atheist”, I think it says a lot when there isn’t a favorable blurb from Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett or Lawrence Krauss. It tells me right there that PZ has marginalized himself, and that’s a great step forward for both skepticism and atheism.

1:53pm
Greg Laden
I wish you would stop bothering me.

1:57pm
John Kwok
I wish you would stop answering me. How’s that? Meanwhile I am looking forward to the legal fireworks.

2:05pm
Greg Laden
Really, John, you need to leave me alone

2:07pm
John Kwok
Please don’t write to me after this. I thank you in advance for your cooperation Greg.

2:08pm
Greg Laden
OMG, shut up.

2:09pm
John Kwok
OMG why don’t you shut up? I’m going to say it again. Please don’t write to me after this. I thank you in advance for your cooperation Greg.

2:10pm
Greg Laden
John, I’m not reading any of the notes you send me, so you might as well not even bother. Just stop.

2:12pm
John Kwok
Greg, if I get a message from you, I’m writing back. JUST. STOP. NOW. PLEASE.

2:12pm
Greg Laden
Wut? I insist that you stop filling my inbox with your drek. Immediately.

2:13pm
John Kwok
WTF. I insist you stop filling my inbox with your drek. IMMEDIATELY! Now I asked you politely. Don’t write back please.

2:14pm
Greg Laden
stop copying me

2:14pm
John Kwok
Stop writing to me and I’ll stop copying you. You’re as bad as Paul Zachary.

2:15pm
Greg Laden
Thank you for not copying me. Now stop emailing me.

2:16pm
John Kwok
I think Al Stefanelli has a similar view of you. You can ask him. Now will you please stop writing back. Thank you.

2:16pm
Greg Laden
I’m dialing 9-1-1 now.

2:17pm
John Kwok
Too late, I’ve reported you to the FBI. I know someone who knows Holder, who is a fellow Stuyvesant HS alumnus.

2:27pm
Greg Laden
No you don’t

2:28pm
John Kwok
How would you know? You haven’t been active in Stuyvesant HS alumni affairs. I have. Now just shut up and leave me alone please.

2:29pm
Greg Laden
Stop lying to me and shut up.

2:30pm
John Kwok
That’s advice I throw back to you. I’ve been active in Stuyvesant HS alumni affairs and I know people who know Holder.

2:32pm
Greg Laden
I hung out in the same bar as Obama in graduate school.

2:34pm
John Kwok
Who gives a Fuck. I’ve been volunteering each year, starting in 2009 at the World Science Festival in part because I had overlapped with Brian Greene in high school.

2:35pm
Greg Laden
I went to high school with the guy who invented Flash.

2:36pm
John Kwok
You and PZ really deserve each other. Told bad Shermer didn’t go after you too. Now will you please stop. Thank you. I thought you were once sensible when we had discussed Peter Williamson a few years ago. I know I am talking to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
Damn, I have to add this as an addendum:
Too bad Shermer didn’t go after you too.
Don’t reply to this. Just go away please now.

2:53pm
Greg Laden
You’re the one sending me Facebook messages, John. And I’ve asked you to stop numerous times. I’m asking you again now, stop. I know a guy who works for the CIA.

Comments

  1. #1 Cat
    Melbourne, Australia
    August 19, 2013

    He really is very strange, isn’t he? The childish-ness would be funny, except for the fact that he’s actually serious. It’s hard to believe there are adults who talk like that.

    And I thought I had some annoying people trying to friend me…

  2. #2 Michael R Haubrich
    August 19, 2013

    I could look, but I had a message from him several years ago begging me to ask my friend PZ to stop making fun of him.

  3. #3 S
    United States
    August 19, 2013

    I used to be friends with Mr Kwok, and I had assumed that there was mutual respect between us in addition to sharing similar interests.

    But I was forced to terminate that friendship when Mr Kwok became angry with me for not helping him denounce PZ Myers for deleting Kwok’s comments in a Panda’s Thumb article.

    And when it became clear that Mr Kwok refused to understand that I didn’t want to participate in his grudge against Myers, and that I was busy living my own life, Kwok became absolutely livid, forcing me to block him on Facebook.

  4. #4 Simon
    August 19, 2013

    made my evening. You should copy and post in text based form though as not everyone can read the image.

  5. #5 Jason Thibeault
    August 19, 2013

    Oh yeah. That guy. I wonder if he knows anyone important in the movement…

  6. #6 Greg Laden
    August 19, 2013

    Simon, good idea. I was thinking at first that people who could not read the graphic were blessed, but that is not really my choice.

  7. #7 Lorax
    angrybychoice.fieldofscience.com
    August 19, 2013

    Surprisingly, I could not find the rationallyspeaking blog post Kwok referenced.

  8. #8 Michael R Haubrich
    August 19, 2013

    Jason, everyone he knows in the movement is important. Everyone.

  9. #9 David Marjanović
    Museum für Naturkunde, Berlin
    August 19, 2013

    :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

  10. #10 Dax
    Halifax
    August 19, 2013

    PZ goes a bit(lot ) overboard in his defence of the ladies in question.Being a biology prof. he should know that isn’t quite as simple as bad boys. There are tribes in Africa who are run by Mothers. The whole Christian crap is patricial. This is a sad fact. but one that can only be changed by going and confronting. Conformt. Wear a mini cam.You can get them as small as a button If it’ as bad as everybody says it is.Don’t know what happened to spellcheck. Goodnight

  11. #11 Pete Cockerell
    United States
    August 19, 2013

    Lorax#7

    Yes, that is surprising because I pasted the link from Greg’s transcript into my browser and it came right up.

  12. #12 DR
    August 19, 2013

    This guy’s a nut, but he does have one point, the one about PZ stepping in it by making clearly libelous statements about Shermer. I’m not a Shermer fan in the least, and if I let my own personal prejudice take over I’d be inclined to believe the accusations: but nevertheless, making public accusations of a crime without reasonable evidence is pretty much the definition of libel.

    So this time, the cranks are right. PZ did himself in, and it’s highly likely he’ll land in court or at least in a room with quite a few lawyers… And he’ll certainly lose. Libel is hard to prove in this country; except when you go ahead and give your target all the evidence they need.

  13. #13 Michael R Haubrich
    August 19, 2013

    You a lawyer? Libel is making a statement known to be false with malice aforethought. I am not a lawyer, either, however this is not a clear case of libel.

    PZ trusts the source, that is a valid defense against the first of three prongs that a claimant must make in order to prove libel.

  14. #14 Gary
    August 20, 2013

    Oh yeah. That guy. I wonder if he knows anyone important in the movement…

    He know everybody important in the movement. In fact, he knows everybody important in every movement. And they all owe him a Leica.

  15. #15 Rieux
    August 20, 2013

    I’m a lawyer. PZ’s statements aren’t libel. Not incidentally, it would seem that Shermer (who appears to be getting quite competent legal advice) is not in fact going to sue him. I’m afraid that you simply have no idea what you’re talking about, DR.

    Now then, Jason:

    Oh yeah. That guy. I wonder if he knows anyone important in the movement…

    No, no. The real questions are: (1) Which high school did he go to? and (2) Has anyone else prominent graduated from that high school?

  16. #16 Ichthyic
    August 20, 2013

    wow. that was just like an episode of 27b/6!

    http://www.27bslash6.com/

  17. #17 Ichthyic
    August 20, 2013

    “So this time, the cranks are right. PZ did himself in, and it’s highly likely he’ll land in court or at least in a room with quite a few lawyers… And he’ll certainly lose. Libel is hard to prove in this country; except when you go ahead and give your target all the evidence they need.”

    If ignorance was a crime, could you sue me for libel for accusing you of it?

  18. #19 A Hermit
    August 20, 2013

    Gee, if saying something bad about someone on the internet was all it took it be libel PZ could sue Kwok for this:

    Someone else asked me if he was crazy and I said he’s certified.

    It should be fun watching all the handwaving and historical revisions when the big lawsuit these airheads are all cheering for fails to materialize

  19. #20 Chadwick Jones
    August 20, 2013

    That exchange reminds of me why I don’t comment on /r/Conspiracy posts. The conspiracy nutters at Reddit just repeat your comments…

  20. #21 Doug Alder
    August 20, 2013

    #15 Rieux – Your question number two should lose the word “else” – remember he’s only prominent in his own eyes, to everyone else he’s just an annoying noseeum

  21. #22 Phil
    August 21, 2013

    This Kwok fellow is immature in the extreme. However, I am disappointed in PZ. I’vve never met him, I’ve been to talks with Shermer but I don’t know him. I find it incredibly irresponsible for PZ to “print” such hearsay in what is a criminal act. All we have to do is put the shoe on the other foot. Would you find PZ’s actions acceptable if you were the subject of the blog? I would say, no. Trial by blog in the public sphere is not conducive to good investigation.

  22. #23 Roger
    August 21, 2013

    That got REALLY funny. I’m completely unaware of his beef with Myers, but Kwok’s juvenile “I WILL HAVE THE LAST WORD!” mentality was just….sad.

    Also, you look WAY younger in your Facebook avatar. /kidding

  23. #24 Ichthyic
    August 22, 2013

    I find it incredibly irresponsible for PZ to “print” such hearsay in what is a criminal act.

    your ignorance isn’t just about PZ or Shermer, based on your “analysis” here.

  24. #25 Artor
    August 23, 2013

    I stopped reading about ten exchanges in. Why didn’t you just block or unfriend Kwok? I would have after he ignored the second STFU.

  25. #26 Jesse
    August 23, 2013

    My question too. You told him to piss off, and you answered wen he didn’t. Why? I’ve had FB interactions where I thought a person wasn’t worth responding to… and I didn’t respond. Or, if I get those messages, I just delete them, or ignore them, like I ignore unsolicited Linkedin reqs from people who I don’t know.

    (Much fun as the later exchanges were, tho.. did you do that deliberately to see if he would up the crazy quotient?).

  26. #27 Greg Laden
    August 23, 2013

    Artor and Jesse, you are simply not aware of the broader context. This is not an FB interaction . Believe me, I ignore/delete/block people messing with me on FB (and Twitter and on this blog) all the time.

    This was a Kwok Event. It’s a special thing.

    (There is some context here: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/John_Kwok)

    Also, I discovered that having a friend in the CIA is apparently enough to get Kwok to back off. I’ve not heard from him since. That’s pretty amazing. I’ll give it a few more weeks before I call my CIA friend off, I guess. :)

  27. #28 Dean
    August 23, 2013

    Which CIA are you referring to? :-)

  28. #29 Greg Laden
    August 23, 2013

    Ha!

    If I include both then I’ve got a LOT of friends who are or were with the CIA!

  29. #30 Jesse
    August 24, 2013

    I read the wiki and I am still confused. You say this is the FB “Email” — that’s the message function right? I mean, there isn’t anything that pops up on the screen and forces you to answer is there? I’m sorry if it sounds like I am focusing on the technological stuff here but some of it is I want to know what to do and if this can happen to me.

    (Pretend you’re explaining this to your non-techie parents, or the dumbest student in the class :-) )

    The screen shots look like FB to me, is it some other network? I’m sorry if I sound stupid.

  30. #31 Greg Laden
    August 24, 2013

    Facebook message function, yes. Depending on your privacy settings (good luck figuring that out!) anyone on facebook cam send you a message. But you cam name it stop in one of two ways:

    1) Block them;

    2) Tell them you have a friend who works for the CIA!

  31. #32 Jesse
    August 25, 2013

    So you have to block specific people even if they aren’t your friends? (as in FB friend?)

    Also, that still doesn’t make clear why you bothered answering, tho, if all that would happen is a little message thing i the upper corner of the screen. Or is answering this guy the “special thing?” Seems to me a lot of silly for little return, though it was funny to read.

  32. #33 Greg Laden
    August 26, 2013

    If a post is public and it depends on your security settings which no one understands.

    There is a Kwok history. Visiting Santa at the mall in December wouldn’t make sense either if you never knew about Christmas.

  33. #34 Greg Laden
    August 26, 2013

    But also it is a little like that soap thing years ago

  34. #35 Greg Laden
    August 26, 2013