Living the Scientific Life (Scientist, Interrupted)

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Just in case you think I think that christians comprise the only wingnut cult in the world, think again. Thanks to the aggressive policing policy of the mormon cult, it’s not so easy to find videos that describe what they are about, but I finally managed to get to one video before the mormon thought police did, so you should watch this before it disappears (as its predecessors have);


If that cult doesn’t read like badly written science fiction fanfic by pimply-faced 15-year-old boyz hiding in their mother’s basements, I don’t know what does!

Crybaby mormons have been demanding that YouTube remove this video because it supposedly does not reflect their mind-control cult correctly, and YouTube, being the spineless idiots that they are, comply. Better than any scifi movie, this video discusses how the cult of mormonism works. The mormon cultists can whinge all they want; this video is based in fact: references are summarized below, many from the Book of Mormon itself (references lifted from the YouTube site):

0:20 – 0:45 : King Follett Discourse (History of the Church Vol 6 pg 302-317)

0:54 – 1:00 : Abraham 3

1:03 – 2:20 : Gospel Principles Chs 2-3

2:20 – 2:35 : Official Statement by 1st presidency 08/17/49 and 08/17/51 and Joseph Fielding Smith in Doctrines of Salvation 1:65-66 2nd Nephi 5:21

2:38 : Gospel Princ Manual Ch 3

2:40 : Pre 1982 2 Nephi 30:6

2:44 : no longer taught he said early mormon profits… Brigham Young journal of discourses vol 1 pg 50-51 and Wilford Woodruff’s journal

3:20 : The seer pg 172, Brigham Young journal of discourses vol 1 p 346 Orson Hyde journal of discourses, vol 2 p 210

3:28 : D&C 113 and Isa 11

3:32 : Journal of Discourses 13:309

3:41 : 3 Nephi

4:03 : 4 Nephi, Moroni

4:20 : 4:30 Moroni 10

4:37 : 4:50 State of NY VS Joseph Smith “The Glass Looker” other Court Documents

4:43 – 4:50 1826-1830 convicted of fraud, admitted “peepstoning” was fake.

5:01 : Joe Smith History 1:19

5:16 : 5:21 Howard W Hunter “your temple recommend” New Era Apr 1995, 6

5:22 : Russell M Nelson “Spirit of Elijah” Ensign Nov 1994, 84 and D&C 128, 138:33

5:27 : D&C 132:17-20

5:36 : Robert L Millet, “Joseph Smith among the prophets” Ensign Jun 1994, 19

5:49 – :52 : D&C 132

6:03 : Hist of the Church Vol pg 408-412

6:12 : He died in a shootout

Comments

  1. #1 Jen
    January 24, 2010

    That cartoon is truly a thing of beauty. I hope some people mirror it in case of more DMCA takedowns. (‘Twould be sweet to see the LDS appear on the EFF Takedown Hall of Shame.
    http://www.eff.org/takedowns )

    L Ron Hubbard took the Mormon lunacy and ran with it. The origin story (with transcript):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCHOpaP9704

  2. #2 bloggernacleburner
    January 24, 2010

    Srsly.

    There are much more mockable things about Mormonism than Ed Decker’s ‘Superfriends’ version. The movie it’s from, The Godmakers, is like an extended Jack Chick tract.

    Try DNA and the Book of Mormon on for size, or denying membership in their priesthood to black men until 1978, or the crap they pulled on the ERA.

    Criticize the real stuff, not this straw-man version of Mormonism.

  3. #3 Frank Cornish
    January 24, 2010

    I have always been amazed that anyone with brown skin would want to become a mormon. Even with the new revelation, how could they wipe out their racist history enough that a dark-skinned individual could consider a second-class citizenship post-mortem? They were, after all, the neutrals and had darker skin as a “punishment.”

    This looks ridiculous, of course, but hardly any more so than the mythologies of the more “respected” religions. They are all cults, as far as I am concerned.

  4. #4 PI
    January 24, 2010

    Oh snap! I’m a little surprised you have a hard time coming across videos like this. Anyone who can type “mormon” into google will have the good bad right and wrong just a click away. It’s nice in the information age that anti-cult cults can spread their propoganda as easily as anyone other organization these days. It would take too long to point out all of the gross inaccuracies contained in this little gem (I mean seriously, who has time to correct the internet?), but it is what it is.

  5. #5 Frank Cornish
    January 24, 2010

    PI does have a point, in that the Christian Church has had a very active corps of “Cult Education Outreaches” against the Mormon Church, and videos like this should probably be taken with a bit of a grain of salt. But we are aware of the origins of the Mormon Church. I mean, it is all recent history compared to say, Christianity or Islam.

    And Smith had the same sort of “revelations” that Muhammad did, didn’t he? There are source materials from the Mormon Church that reveal the roots of their faith, their sexism, their racism and all are right now available. And we are completely aware of their homophobia, aren’t we, PI?

  6. #6 Maggie Moo
    January 24, 2010

    and that is why so many Mormons work in the field of military technology, to crack the secret of armor-piercing arrow- and spear-heads! (3:54-4:15)

  7. #7 TomH
    January 24, 2010

    The cartoon has many errors. Youtube removed it because it is factually incorrect. And, I am not a “cry baby” Mormon.

    1. The references posted do not correspond to the cartoon. This cartoon originate from Ed Decker, a former Mormon who took references from Mormonism and “INTERPRETED” them for this own twisted slant on Mormonism. No one takes Ed Decker seriously accept the fundamentalist Evangelical Christian crowd who believe the earth is 6000 years and 6 days old and that God created the universe out of nothing.

    2. Joseph Smith taught that every consciousness is eternal and that this consciousness called, “intelligence” (a particular entity), was added upon by receiving a spirit body. The spirit body was not subject to physical death and therefore, the depiction of a “child-aged” spirit with a diaper on, or earth like conditions with its Greek architecture and middle-eastern 1st century dress is an absurdity to Mormonism. Take those things away and suddenly a new picture emerges.

    3. In Mormonism, God the Father is the most intelligent of all intelligences, there are no other beings that are more intelligent than he is. All beings, who can be called Gods, are partners with God the Father.

    4. The destiny of an intelligence is to become like God, if it chooses to take that path.

    5. God the Father already knew the path of an intelligence and Jesus didn’t propose a “new plan” but merely agreed to follow God’s plan. Lucifer wanted to change the affairs of the universe through compulsion instead of personal libertarian independence.

    6. I could go on and on about the list of errors in the film.

    7. As for the posts, DNA evidence does not disprove or refute the Book of Mormon.

    8. The priesthood ban on black men was a practice and not a doctrine. In 1836, Joseph Smith was the first white leader or an all white Church to ordain a black man to the priesthood, nearly 30 years before the emancipation proclamation. Despite the general ban in 1848, some black men continued to be ordained to the priesthood until 1931.

    9. Mormon leadership recently affirmed gay rights in Salt Lake City Utah but does not agree with creating an institution of marriage for homosexual men or lesbian women. However, this is not exclusive to Mormonism, but is supported throughout the U.S. as the norm.

    10. Mormonism is different than any religion on the planet. It affirms that only matter and energy exist and have existed eternally. There is no such thing as “immateriality” or a “supernatural” realm. Mormons affirm that the universe was created gradually over billions of years with God as director (an incredibly intelligent being who has command over physical laws of energy.) There are various kinds and forms of matter and energy. Some of it is unseen by the human eye but nevertheless measurable.

  8. #8 "GrrlScientist"
    January 24, 2010

    well, i was disappointed to see that the mormon’s magic underwear weren’t explained in this video.

  9. #9 Maggie Moo
    January 24, 2010

    Grrl, with so much “celestial sex”, underwear was considered a hindrance!

  10. #10 Mormons Are Christian
    January 24, 2010

    Mormons Are New Testament Christians, not Creedal Christians

    The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often accused by Evangelical pastors of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion. This post helps to clarify such misconceptions by examining early Christianity’s theology relating to baptism, the Godhead, the deity of Jesus Christ and His Atonement.

    Baptism:

    Early Christian churches, practiced baptism of youth (not infants) by immersion by the father of the family. The local congregation had a lay ministry. An early Christian Church has been re-constructed at the Israel Museum, and the above can be verified. The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continues baptism and a lay ministry as taught by Jesus’ Apostles. Early Christians were persecuted for keeping their practices sacred, and prohibiting non-Christians from witnessing them.

    The Trinity:

    A literal reading of the New Testament points to God and Jesus Christ , His Son , being separate , divine beings , united in purpose. . To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane, and Who was speaking to Him and his apostles on the Mount of Transfiguration? The Nicene Creed”s definition of the Trinity was influenced by scribes translating the Greek manuscripts into Latin. The scribes embellished on a passage explaining the Trinity , which is the Catholic and Protestant belief that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The oldest versions of the epistle of 1 John, read: “There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water and the blood and these three are one.” Scribes later added “the Father, the Word and the Spirit,” and it remained in the epistle when it was translated into English for the King James Version, according to Dr. Bart Ehrman, Chairman of the Religion Department at UNC- Chapel Hill. He no longer believes in the Nicene Trinity. . Scholars agree that Early Christians believed in an embodied God; it was neo-Platonist influences that later turned Him into a disembodied Spirit. For example, it was an emperor (Constantine) . who introduced a term, homoousious, which defined the Son as “consubstantial” (one being) with the Father. Neither term or anything like it is in the New Testament. Harper’s Bible Dictionary entry on the Trinity says “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament.” The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views the Trinity as three separate divine beings , in accord with the earliest Greek New Testament manuscripts.

    Theosis:

    Divinization, narrowing the space between God and humans, was also part of Early Christian belief. St. Athanasius of Alexandria (Eastern Orthodox) wrote, regarding theosis, “The Son of God became man, that we might become God.” . Irenaeus wrote in the Second Century: “we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods” . . Justin Martyr, in the same century wrote: “all men ar deemed worthy of becoming ‘gods’, and of having power to become sons of the Highest . . .” Jerome wrote that God “made man for that purpose, that from men they may become gods.” Clement of Alexandria said worthy men “are called by the appellation of gods, being destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first put in their places by the Savior.” Origen in reference to 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 said “Now it is possible that some may dislike what we have said representing the Father as the one true God, but admitting other beings besides the true God, who have become gods by having a share of God . . As, then there are many gods, but to us there is but one God the Father, and many Lords, but to us there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.” . The Gospel of Thomas (which pre-dates the 4 Gospels, but was considered non-canonical by the Nicene Council) quotes the Savior: “He who will drink from my mouth will become as I am: I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him,” (Gospel of Thomas 50, 28-30, Nag Hammadi Library in English, J.M.Robinson, 1st ed 1977; 3rd ed. 1988) The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) agrees with all these Early Christian writers regarding theosis.

    Confirming the views of Origen, LDS Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie said: “There is and can only be one who is supreme, who is the head and to who all the others are subject”. Becoming like God is not saying we will ever by equal to him, frankly we won’t and can’t. He, and only He, will forever be worshipped by us.

    The Deity of Jesus Christ:

    Mormons hold firmly to the deity of Christ. For members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS), Jesus is not only the Son of God but also God the Son. Evangelical pollster George Barna found in 2001 that while only 33 percent of American Catholics, Lutherans, and Methodists (28 percent of Episcopalians) agreed that Jesus was “without sin”, 70 percent of Mormons believe Jesus was sinless.

    The Cross and Christ’s Atonement:

    The Cross became popular as a Christian symbol in the Fifth Century A.D. . Members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) believe the proper Christian symbol is Christ’s resurrection , not his crucifixion on the Cross. Many Mormon chapels feature paintings of the resurrected Christ or His Second Coming. Furthermore, members of the church believe the major part of Christ’s atonement occurred in the Garden of Gethsemane as Christ took upon him the sins of all mankind.

    Grace Versus Works:

    One Evangelical Christian author wrote of his sudden discovery that his previous beliefs about salvation were very different from those held by the early Christians:
    “If there’s any single doctrine that we would expect to find the faithful associates of the apostles teaching, it’s the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. After all, that is the cornerstone doctrine of the Reformation. In fact, we frequently say that persons who don’t hold to this doctrine aren’t really Christians…
    Our problem is that Augustine, Luther, and other Western theologians have convinced us that there’s an irreconcilable conflict between salvation based on grace and salvation conditioned on works or obedience. They have used a fallacious form of argumentation known as the “false dilemma,” by asserting that there are only two possibilities regarding salvation: it’s either (1) a gift from God or (2) it’s something we earn by our works.
    The early Christians [and Latter-Day Saints!] would have replied that a gift is no less a gift simply because it’s conditioned on obedience….
    The early Christians believed that salvation is a gift from God but that God gives His gift to whomever He chooses. And He chooses to give it to those who love and obey him.” —David W. Bercot, Will The Real Heretics Please Stand Up: A New Look at Today’s Evangelical Church in the Light of Early Christianity, 3rd edition, (Tyler, Texas: Scroll Publishing Company, 1999[1989]), 57, 61–62

    Definition of “Christian”: .

    But Mormons don’t term Catholics and Protestants “non-Christian”. They believe Christ’s atonement applies to all mankind. The dictionary definition of a Christian is “of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to a religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ”: All of the above denominations are followers of Christ, and consider him divine, and the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament. They all worship the one and only true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and address Him in prayer as prescribed in The Lord’s Prayer. It’s important to understand the difference between Reformation and Restoration when we consider who might be authentic Christians. . Early Christians had certain rituals which defined a Christian , which members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continue today. . If members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) embrace early Christian theology, they are likely more “Christian” than their detractors.

    · The Need for a Restoration of the Christian Church:

    The founder of the Baptist Church in America, Roger Williams, just prior to leaving the church he established, said this: “There is no regularly constituted church of Christ on earth, nor any person qualified to administer any church ordinances; nor can there be until new apostles are sent by the Great Head of the Church for whose coming I am seeking.” (Picturesque America, p. 502.) Martin Luther had similar thoughts: “Nor can a Christian believer be forced beyond sacred Scriptures,…unless some new and proved revelation should be added; for we are forbidden by divine law to believe except what is proved either through the divine Scriptures or through Manifest revelation.” He also wrote: “I have sought nothing beyond reforming the Church in conformity with the Holy Scriptures. The spiritual powers have been not only corrupted by sin, but absolutely destroyed; so that there is now nothing in them but a depraved reason and a will that is the enemy and opponent of God. I simply say that Christianity has ceased to exist among those who should have preserved it.” The Lutheran, Baptist and Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) churches recognize an apostasy from early Christianity. The Lutheran and Baptist churches have attempted reform, but Mormonism (and Roger Williams, and perhaps Martin Luther) require inspired restoration, so as to re-establish an unbroken line of authority and apostolic succession.
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .* * *

    · Christ-Like Lives:

    The 2005 National Study of Youth and Religion published by UNC-Chapel Hill found that Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) youth (ages 13 to 17) were more likely to exhibit these Christian characteristics than Evangelicals (the next most observant group):
    http://mormonteenagersreligiousity.blogspot.com/

    1. Attend Religious Services weekly
    2. Importance of Religious Faith in shaping daily life – extremely important
    3. Believes in life after death
    4. Does NOT believe in psychics or fortune-tellers
    5. Has taught religious education classes
    6. Has fasted or denied something as spiritual discipline
    7. Sabbath Observance
    8. Shared religious faith with someone not of their faith
    9. Family talks about God, scriptures, prayer daily
    10. Supportiveness of church for parent in trying to raise teen (very supportive)
    11. Church congregation has done an excellent job in helping teens better understand their own sexuality and sexual morality

    LDS Evangelical
    1. 71% 55%
    2. 52 . . 28
    3. 76 . .62
    4. 100 . 95
    5. 42 . . 28
    6. 68 . . 22
    7. 67 . . 40
    8. 72 . . 56
    9. 50 . . 19
    10 65 . . 26
    11 84 . . 35

    So what do you think the motivation is for the Evangelical preachers to denigrate the Mormon Church? You would think Evangelical preachers would be emulating Mormon practices (a creed to believe, a place to belong, a calling to live out, and a hope to hold onto) which were noted by Methodist Rev. Kenda Creasy Dean of the Princeton Theological Seminary, as causing Mormon teenagers to “top the charts” in Christian characteristics. It seems obvious pastors shouldn’t be denigrating a church based on First Century Christianity, with high efficacy. The only plausible reason to denigrate Mormons is for Evangelical pastors to protect their flock (and their livelihood).

  11. #11 Maggie Moo
    January 24, 2010

    ummm, Mormons are Christian- there are a zillion places to write your own blog where readers don’t have to wade through your water… try google’s blogger, or even here on scienceblogs- oh wait, that wouldn’t work would it, I mean facts and evidence are so… fleeting, ephemeral, intangible… they might not invite you and anyway you’ve already got a blogger blog- the perfect place to post your stuff where we can choose to read an 1,894-word essay or move right along

  12. #12 TomH
    January 24, 2010

    Mormons don’t have “magic” underwear. At least, they don’t believe or teach that their underwear is magical. In truth, there is no such thing as “magic” in Mormonism.

    Mormonism denies the immaterial or supernatural realm (the one completely outside space and time that does not include some sort of material existence.)

    Therefore, there is no magic, but only complete knowledge of the material laws of the universe (seen or unseen). Therefore, when Jesus turned water into wine, it wasn’t “magical” it only appeared to be so to the untrained eye.

    Mormonism is the only religion that objectively examines and discusses the implications of fully functioning resurrected human bodies in an eternal existence.

  13. #13 Phillip IV
    January 24, 2010

    Mormonism is the only religion that objectively examines and discusses the implications of fully functioning resurrected human bodies in an eternal existence.

    Aren’t you confusing Mormonism with Vaudou? Seriously, though, the sad thing about your statement is that you say that as if it was something to be proud of.

    @ Mormons_Are_Christians:

    Give it up, you’re just wasting your time. You’ll never convince Evangelicals, since they are, as a matter of principle, pretty much totally inaccessible to arguments. And nobody else really cares – the question whether your cult and theirs are belong to the same clade is purely academic to everyone not belonging to either. (And I guess deciding that question would require an expert – a Chiropteracoprologist.)

  14. #14 Maggie Moo
    January 24, 2010

    ahh, guano!

  15. #15 HY
    January 24, 2010

    I am amused by what qualifies as “proof” that Mormonism is untrue. Loved the cool, crude cartoon. Really, really professional.

  16. #16 Maggie Moo
    January 24, 2010

    I am amused by the first use of the word “proof”, but it wasn’t in the blurb…

  17. #17 "GrrlScientist"
    January 24, 2010

    oh, “snap!” my magic underwear, PI. i find plenty of videos about mormon crackpottery, but the problem is that these videos disappear shortly before (or after) they go live on my blog. i guess mormons think that everyone is exactly like them: flaming morons who believe anything that their elders tell them believe.

  18. #18 PI
    January 24, 2010

    GrrlScientist, I realize you’re just having some fun here, but the video really is in poor taste. And I’m not just talking about the cheesy music. It would do you a lot of good to separate what mormons actually believe with what a few non-mormons, ex-mormons, and crazy-mormons think they believe. A scholar like yourself certainly values the importance of seeing the world from someone else’s point of view. But if you want to continue to believe all mormons are brainwashed flaming morons incapable of independent thought, that’s certainly your choice to make. But I think it would be an ill-informed one. Cheers.

  19. #19 HiveRadical
    January 24, 2010

    In all my time on the internet discussing things Mormon (well over a decade) everyone I’ve seen try to actually step up and try to defend this cartoon’s presentation and accuracy have always demonstrated clearly and effectively that they either don’t really know much of anything about Mormonism OR they are willfully engaging in misrepresentations of Mormonism.

    This video, as well as the South Park’s dedicated episode, is to Mormonism what “The Protocols of the Elder’s of Zion” is to Judaism in terms of accuracy and intelligent analysis. That is to say it’s garbage. Like Creationist Museums it can contain all the factually correct numbers and have a lot of effort put into it but NONE of that changes the error of the overall premise nor does it undo the falseness of it’s representations.

    To any Mormon that really knows his/her faith to base your views on Mormons on this video or the South Park episode is to set yourself up in a much less than favorable position.

  20. #20 HiveRadical
    January 24, 2010

    Just by way of reference for any of our atheist friends if they want to know more about the ‘brilliant’ mind that put this together.

    The man’s name is Ed Decker and he is of the conviction that the Mormon Church could have come about by no other means than by the craftiness of the Devil. He’s dedicated much of his post Mormon life to a ministry within his own view of Christianity. The man’s convictions against the Mormon faith are to such an intensity and is so far outside of what secularists would accept that he’s been given the label of a “post-rationalist” as a sub classifier to his anti-Mormon views.

    So if you have watched it or will watch it please keep in mind that the man who created it has come to the conclusion that the only viable explanation for the existence of Mormonsim is the sweeping and expansive reach of a powerful Satan.

  21. #21 Maggie Moo
    January 24, 2010

    “a ministry within his own view of Christianity”… umm, this isn’t even chicken and egg- which came first 431 AD or April 6th, 1830?

  22. #22 Tracy Hall Jr
    January 24, 2010

    @GrrlScientist,

    I am astonished by your puerile selection of videos to “describe” what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is “about.” Perhaps you take a break from the rigors of the scientific method on Sundays? I am also puzzled that a “scientist” such as yourself would believe in imaginary Mormon “thought police.”

    In my 64 years of being a Mormon, I have yet to encounter these “thought police.” Mormonism welcomes all truth, regardless of the source. Joseph Smith said, “One of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’ is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may.” Again, “We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true ‘Mormons’.”

    This attitude toward learning has produced some wonderful original thinkers who were also faithful Latter-day Saints, some of whom I have had the privilege of knowing, including Henry Eyring, Harvey Fletcher, and my own father. (Search: eyring equation, history stereophonic sound, diamond synthesis).

    You might be surprised to learn that one of Mormonism’s greatest scholars, Hugh Nibley, had a profound influence on a “pimply faced” teenager who went on to win many awards for writing science fiction: Orson Scott Card!

    “He taught me, as [C.S.] Lewis did, that worldly intellectuals are only able to claim superiority to believers by using the dumbest examples of Christian thinking, and comparing it to the best of science; but the best of Christian (and, more particularly, Mormon) thinking takes all the findings of science and history into account, and finds no contradiction.”
    http://tinyurl.com/OSC-on-Nibley

    The Church of Jesus Christ strongly encourages education and has no fear thereof. The “thought police” somehow knew all along that the degree of religiosity among Latter-day Saints would actually increase with increasing level of education. (Search: secularizing influence Mormons).

    I invite you to go to scriptures.lds.org and apply your critical skills to the founding document of Mormonism: “The Book of Mormon: Another Testament for Jesus Christ.” To guide your scholarly inquiry, I suggest “The Book of Mormon: A very short Introduction,” by Terryl L. Givens (Oxford University Press, 2009).

    All the best,
    Tracy Hall Jr, retired scientist
    Provo Canyon, Utah
    hthalljr’gmail’com

  23. #23 Pete
    January 24, 2010

    GrrlScientist, your blog is shameful. I laughed when I read “it’s not so easy to find videos that describe what they are about.” This cartoon is disgraceful and full of errors and inaccuracies. It repeats the same tired, old anti mormon sentiment that has been around for decades. Anyone who proclaims Ed Decker as a viable resource is beyond belief – talk about wing nuts! You obviously did not try so hard to find out much about the church, or you would have presented a fair and balanced presentation by sharing what you would have found at lds.org. But, you did not. It only serves to further minimize your credibility.

  24. #24 Seth R.
    January 24, 2010

    Of course, the Beavis-and-Butthead style remarks only make people look more and more credible here.

    Huh, huh. Magic underwear. Huh, huh.

    Stay classy.

  25. #25 Cobalt
    January 24, 2010

    Wow. This stuff is based on the same set of beliefs as people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and that evolution is evil.

    Seriously. Of all blogs…SCIENCE blogs…why on earth is someone here trying to make an argument about Mormons using data from one of the least credible demographics in the nation? Really. A very sore disappointment.

    What is more sad, however, is people on this blog have been DEFENDING this video as if the idiots who invented this stuff got it right. It’s like defending people who believe the earth is flat because they made some argument, however crazy, that justifies our speculative view of dark matter. The only difference here is that we get to go on a tirade about religious folk.

    Please, can we just be rational?

  26. #26 DCondie
    January 24, 2010

    Oh.My.Goodness.

    It is quite apparent that having one’s own blog at a site supposedly geared toward thoughtful discussion doesn’t necessarily guarantee said blog will be, well. . . thoughtful.

    So you’re convinced you’ve finally found the truth about Mormonism thru a poorly-animated cartoon put out by one who has dedicated his life to trying to make the Mormons look bad. Well done.

    Of all the churches or organizations out there, you’re not likely to find a single one more willing to discuss with you what they believe and teach. I mean, have you really never seen those guys on bikes with their white shirts and name tags? Most people can’t get them to leave them alone.

    I have another resource you would find fascinating. I once saw a Bugs Bunny cartoon that would likely convince you the moon is made of cheese. I’m sure I’ll have to look it up for you though, as it’s apparent you don’t have the capacity to do any real research on your own.

  27. #27 Morrison
    January 24, 2010

    GrrlScientist. I’ve learned two things:

    1) you have an irrational hatred of Mormon people to the point that logic no longer has any place in your arguments against them (using crackpottery to attempt to describe other crackpottery); thus

    2) your credibility in other fields is diminishing, because you defend false hearsay as fact, despite a wealth of evidence to the contrary. That is the making of a shoddy scientist. Are you sure you don’t want to start a blog at livejournal or myspace, to save from potential hypocrisy of being a ‘scientist’?

  28. #28 "GrrlScientist"
    January 25, 2010

    DCondie : i grew up amongst mormons, dated one, have friends who are ex-mormons, and have been harassed by bicycle-riding boys wearing cheap suits for decades afterwards. so yeah, it’s possible that i know a wee bit about mormons.

    Morrison : i have no irrational hatred of anyone. i do think that (1) all religions are cults (2) anyone who is a member of a cult is weak-minded, weak-willed or both, since they need an outside source of rules to tell them how to live their lives in an ethical way. (3) mormons, in particular, use their cultish beliefs to institutionalize, rationalize and defend racism, sexism, and homophobia — an indefensible position. that’s really damned disgusting. why anyone who is not a white, upper-middle class man would willingly become a mormon is simply beyond all rational comprehension. (yes, i am well aware of the conveniently timed “revelation” regarding mormonism’s formal end to racism in June 8, 1978).

    [note: my point in reserving sunday to mock religion is to point out that we, as rational adults, should act as rational adults by not letting woo take over our thought processes to the point where we allow crackpots to set public and social policies based solely on everyone else in the world adhering to the same identical set of irrational beliefs and damaged thinking processes.]

    oh, and since nowhere did i say this video was “fact”, it is YOU who needs a reading comprehension test. i am presenting this video, which is “based in fact” (there is a difference), for people to watch and comment on.

  29. #29 MikeN
    January 25, 2010

    Good one. I wouldn’t personally concern myself about this anymore than I’d worry about a fight betwen two branches of a fraternity as to which was the real Phi Delta Krappa,but…

    Mitt Romney brought this into the public sphere in the last Presidential campaign. If he’d taken the JFK high road and said that candidates’ religious beliefs should have no bearing on their qualification for office, that would have been one thing- but he didn’t.

    He deliberately affirmed that there should be a religious qualification test for politicians; he just wanted to widen the circle enough to include the Mormons while still keeping those nasty secularist/atheists on the other side.

    By supporting a religious litmus test, he opened the gates for this sort of stuff as a legitimate field of public interest. If you maintain, as Mitt did, that certain people should be ruled out of consideration for elected office because of their religious beliefs, he made the beliefs of the Mormon Church- alng with those of all other churches of course-something that sould be open to query- including their beliefs about the nature and origin of the God of the Bible.

    If you’ve ever had a discussion with a Mormon, you know how much they’ll twist, turn and do anything to avoid giving a straight answer.

    So, LDS members- is Elohim/Yahweh the sole eternally existing uncreated source of all creation (including all other creations/universes} or was he once a man like others who became God?

  30. #30 Jen
    January 25, 2010

    Does this backlash rash of comments have anything to do with “8: The Mormon Propostion,” which just premiered at Sundance? Lulz. Bad PR alert for the church!

    Thanks for reminding me to check it out, Mormon commenters!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upWb2jBk5xw

  31. #31 Phillip IV
    January 25, 2010

    Dear God, Mormons seem to be a little bit on edge these days.

    A blog links to a YouTube video you don’t like, so you descend on it by the dozen spouting pre-fabricated talking points? Yup, that’s gonna convince the general public you’re not a brainwashing cult, because that’s exactly how rational human beings are supposed to behave.

    Your ‘corrections’ of ‘inaccuracies’ are duly noted, but the differences between the version in the video, the ‘authentic’ version and a random Final Fantasy plot are so subtle they matter only to you.

    I’m sorry, but any religious belief can be easily depicted in a ridiculing fashion – that comes with the metaphysical nature. You want respect? Stick to reality.

  32. #32 Pierce R. Butler
    January 25, 2010

    When do we get to see a cartoon about Orson Scott Card?

  33. #33 Fear Not
    January 25, 2010

    What a bunch of BS.
    Anybody who would “buy” the content and implied content in this video is a complete idiot. They know nothing about Mormonism and even less about critical thinking.
    Decker is supposedly a bright guy but…… ??? I guess he is so deep in the cave he receives no light at all.

  34. #34 Linda
    January 25, 2010

    I don’t care if anyone believes as I do, or not.
    But, I would think that anyone who claims to be scientific-minded would go to the source to find out what is what.
    Even if you don’t believe in God, even if you don’t believe as we do, at least, find out what it is we believe!
    How many times do you have to have Mormons telling you, this is NOT what we believe! before you understand that what this stupid cartoon says does not EVEN come close to what I learn every week in church! It no more resembles the church I attend than music notes represents linear geometry.
    We all know the rea$on why Decker put$ out the$e book$ and movie$. He lies, he admits it, proudly, and he’$ laughing all the way to the bank.
    If you are at all scientific, ask yourself this question:

    WHO in their right mind, would believe this crap?

    Then, try to answer it.

    Can you come up with anyone?

    There are some very bright, intelligent people in our church.

    Henry Eyring, I’ve never heard of him, but he sounds pretty impressive. “He pioneered the application of quantum mechanics to chemistry. He also was awarded the National medal of Science for devolving the Absolute Rate Theory of chemical reactions. He was elected president of the American Chemical Society in 1963 and of the Association for the Advancement of Science in 1965.”

    Dr. John S. Lewis. “He has research interests in the applications of chemistry to planetary sciences and space development. He joined the Church in Boston while teaching at MIT.”

    Richard G. Scott, Nuclear Engineer, “He did advanced studies at Oak Ridge National Laboratory for the Department of Energy.” He is now an Apostle.

    Dr. Norman Tolk Physicist “A graduate of Harvard University, with a PhD from Columbia University, he is a world-renowned physicist. He was a recipient of the Humboldt award, which is one of the highest international recognitions for physicists. He has spoken and consulted with the top universities and scientists in the United States, Russia, China, Switzerland, and dozens of other countries throughout the world. He is a pioneer in research involving the Free Electron Laser, which he brought to Vanderbilt University.”

    Dr. Russell M. Nelson, Heart Surgeon, “He worked on a team that developed the first machine that could perform the functions of a patient’s heart and lungs during heart surgery. In 1951, the machine performed well in the first open-heart operation on a human being. Four years later, he performed the first successful open-heart surgery using a heart-lung machine in Salt Lake City, making Utah the third state in the nation to reach this important milestone.” He is also now an Apostle.

    John Moses Browning “The most famous firearms designer the world has ever known with the greatest firearms inventory in history. With 128 firearm patents, John M. Browning’s inventions have marked every armed conflict from World War I through Desert Storm.”

    William Clayton, invented the odometer.

    Philo T. Farnsworth
    (1906-1971)
    inventor (television) Yes, THE inventor of THE Television

    Robert B. Ingebretsen
    (1949-2003)
    inventor (compact discs)

    Lester Wire
    (1887-1958)
    inventor (traffic light)

    http://www.famousmormons.net

    It’s interesting how these brilliantly intelligent people can believe what’s on this cartoon?

    Or, DO they??

    Or, perhaps, JUST perhaps, we do NOT believe what’s in this cartoon.

    Of course, it’s MUCH more fun to think that there are complete and total moronic idiots out there who actually believe this stuff!!!

    Oh, and the film forgot something.

    The horns and the prehensile tails!

  35. #35 DCondie
    January 25, 2010

    “so yeah, it’s possible that i know a wee bit about mormons.”

    Oh, I’m not saying it’s not possible you know a bit about them, but this particular blog entry certainly indicates you don’t. That’s all I have to go by.

    But good luck to you in your work with birds. And I mean that sincerely. There is an exotic bird refuge just 1/2 mile from my new home. Fascinating creatures.

  36. #36 Rorschach
    January 26, 2010

    If you came into my Hospital and told this story to the Psych nurse, you would be recommended and made an involuntary inpatient for treatment of schizophrenia.

  37. #37 eddie
    January 26, 2010

    And that, folks, is the sound of a bunch of cocks crowing three times.

    The vid is documented and accurate as per the moron’s idiot texts and the moron denialists come on and say that that’s not the real moron. What? They deny the book of mormon or moroni or whatever other books and prophets they hold so dear. Nobody’s claiming anything in the vid isn’t in moron doctrine apart from the morons themselves.

    Seems the magic is where they think it’s all true until they actually think. Look at yourselves, morons. You’re morons.

  38. #38 Morrison
    January 26, 2010

    GrrlScientist: Call your stance what you may, you still used crackpottery to suggest another’s crackpottery.

    You remain irrational, despite your “wee” bit of knowledge about mormons, as you claim the video is based in “fact” and that it describes what they “are all about.”

    I’m afraid my reading comprehension is fine. You still defend your post as if it actually bring useful information. It’s like asking my crazy uncle to tell me all the reasons why Obama is evil: he’ll give me reasons alright, but it sure won’t be based in “fact” nor describe to me what Obama is “all about.”

  39. #39 Morrison
    January 26, 2010

    eddie: really. I can safely say that I’m not a moron, and that the video has been contested by intellectuals that have made their occupation to defame mormons. Just because you feel they are morons does not exempt you from doing even the slightest amount of research.

  40. #40 Ethan
    January 30, 2010

    What this lame Hannah Barbara cartoon does not tell you is how Joseph Smith laid out fundamental principles of Einstein’s Relativity in 1836, as well as the First Law of Conservation in physics, eternal elements and light (energy). For the scientifically challenged Einstein called it E=MC2 over 100 years after Smith DIED.

    Science is fun, especially if you are an uneducated farm boy in rural 1830’s frontier America. We won’t even get into the recent findings in ancient theology and ritual that Smith mysteriously reconstructs verbatim. These are recent discoveries that were not known about 20 years ago. Smith hit the ball out of the park. Any explanations from the Church of science?

  41. #41 Bob O'H
    January 31, 2010

    For the scientifically challenged Einstein called it E=MC2 over 100 years after Smith DIED.

    Did Smith also reconstruct mathematics so that 1905 – 1844 > 100?

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