Respectful Insolence

Good news! Dr. Roy Kerry, the quack whose careless use of intravenous chelation therapy for autism resulted in the death of a five year old autistic boy named Abubakar Tariq Nadama, will be charged with involuntary manslaughter:

PITTSBURGH – A doctor was charged with involuntary manslaughter Wednesday for administering a chemical treatment that state police say killed a 5-year-old autistic boy.

The child, Abubakar Tariq Nadama, went into cardiac arrest at Dr. Roy E. Kerry’s office immediately after undergoing chelation therapy on Aug. 23, 2005.

Chelation removes heavy metals from the body and is approved by the Food and Drug Administration for treating acute heavy metal poisoning, but not for treating autism. Some people who believe autism is caused by a mercury-containing preservative once used in vaccines say chelation may also help autistic children.

The boy’s parents had moved from England to the Pittsburgh area to seek treatment for his autism. They have filed a wrongful death suit against Kerry, and the Department of State is trying to revoke his license.

The Department of State has alleged that Kerry prescribed an IV push — meaning the drugs are administered in one dose intravenously — despite warnings that the method could be lethal.

Slippery Rock District Judge Clifford Woessner’s staff confirmed that an arrest warrant was issued for Kerry. It wasn’t immediately clear if police planned to arrest Kerry or mail a summons.

It took two years, but perhaps justice will prevail in this case after all, although no doubt the antivaccinationists who, despite all the evidence otherwise, that thimerosal in vaccines causes autism, will paint Dr. Kerry as a martyr to the cause, “persecuted” by the medical establishment. As I’ve said before, this was about as close to a “clean” kill as one can get. Dr. Kerry is a dangerous quack, and I’m hoping that this prosecution will send a clear and strong message to others treating autistic children with chelation therapy: No more Abubakar Tariq Nadamas.

Comments

  1. #1 Do'C
    August 23, 2007

    Dr. Kerry is a dangerous quack, and I’m hoping that this prosecution will send a clear and strong message to others treating autistic children with chelation therapy: No more Abubakar Tariq Nadamas.

    I’ll second that.

  2. #2 Junior
    August 23, 2007

    I’ll go thirds on it.

  3. #3 isles
    August 23, 2007

    And I hope this will give pause to any parents considering entrusting their child to a “DAN! doctor.” If they love their child more than they hate autism, anyway.

  4. #4 Greg B
    August 23, 2007

    I have an autistic nephew and I use to think that the thimerosal hypothesis had enough anecdotal evidence to make it worth looking into. After all, the child seemed to be developing normally, his verbal skills were developing, his physical coordination was developing properly and so on. Then he gets his measle shot and within months we start seeing his development going backwards. He lost vocabulary words, his physical coordination didn’t develop normally. It seemed obvious to us that something happened at about 18 months to 2 years old that took a normally developing boy and messed him up big time.

    It’s tough to leave the anti-vaccine mentality. You want to have someone to blame. After all, my brother and his wife essentially lost their healthy son as they watched him change into a seriously developmentally disabled kid.

    But then the mercury was removed from the vaccines. Here we have a perfect example of the scientific method. The hypothesis was “Thimerisol is causing autism”. So then we would construct a test. A good test would be “Let’s remove the thimerisol from the vaccine. Our hypothesis would predict that the incidence of autism will go down”. Well, we’ve been running that experiment since 2002 and the incidence of new autism cases has not decreased. Therefore, the hypothesis is wrong.

    When I see evidence like that I have to change my hypothesis. As difficult as it is to accept, the big pharm companies didn’t do this to my nephew. But when confronted with evidence I really have no choice as an intelligent, rational human, than to change my opinion and leave the anti vaccine mind set. My brother and his wife have also left that mind set.

    So I’m an out of the closet former anti-vaccine guy. But I certainly understand why people would hold on to the hope that the vaccine did this to their child. It gives them hope that it can be reversed. But at some point you have to get past the cognitive dissonance you have when you’re presented with evidence contrary to your beliefs and move on to a rational and more informed position. It’s tough to do, but you have to move on.

  5. #5 David Tyler
    August 23, 2007

    Dr. Kelly is the worst kind of quack. The death of the 5 year old boy was not just the result of a difference of opinion on the causes of autism. Not only was Dr. Kelly willing to offer an unapproved treatment for money, he did so without following the established safeguards for use with acute heavy metal poisening.

    Not only was Dr. Kelly selling pseudomedicine – He just did not give a damn about his patient!

  6. #6 Travis
    August 23, 2007

    How would chelation even help in this case? Not only has the damage already been done, but wouldn’t the mercury have already left this poor kid’s body?

    I’m bi-polar and have Asperger’s, so the whole autism thing is important to me.

  7. #7 daedalus2u
    August 23, 2007

    The only plausible mechanism is via the placebo effect (which is caused by neurogenic nitric oxide)

    http://daedalus2u.blogspot.com/2007/04/placebo-and-nocebo-effects.html

    But black-box warning IV meds are extremely dangerous placebos to administer. If autism spectrum disorders are caused by low basal nitric oxide (as I suspect), then they should be particularly susceptible to improvement via the placebo effect.

  8. #8 mike stanton
    August 23, 2007

    Kerry is trying to wriggle out of it by arguing that the problem was with the third round of chelation, carried out in his absence. According to the Herald Tribune,

    “He acknowledged there may have been a “miscommunication” about which medication to give the boy during the third treatment, but said that did not amount to gross negligence.”

    The record clearly shows that the third dose was carried out according to Kerry’s instructions by the same medical assistant (is that some sort of intern?) who administered the second dose under direct supervision by Kerry. There was continuity of care, if that is an appropriate term to use around Kerry.

  9. #9 Junior
    August 23, 2007

    “The record clearly shows that the third dose was carried out according to Kerry’s instructions by the same medical assistant (is that some sort of intern?)”

    A Medical Assistant is an unlicensed health care worker that works under the supervision of an MD. They usually work in an outpatient setting performing clinical and clerical duties, similar to a nurse but they are unlicensed and certification is not required either. The educational preparation is usually about 1-2 years in a techinical or career college. States vary in what they allow Medical Assistants to do, but I would say there is question whether a Medical Assistant should have been giving an IV push med at all in the state of Pennsylvania.

  10. #10 Jennifer
    September 10, 2007

    I am not doubting that this child’s life is a great loss and that it is a shame and should never have happened however, I been a patient of Dr Kerry and so have my children as well as several of my family members and I know that he is a wonderful caring Doctor and that it is not all about the money to him he doesn’t have a big fancy office he is in a quaint office in a small town and treats his patients w/care like he would his own family he will not do any treatment that you are not comfortable with and lets you know if there would be a risk (like any other Doctor). Conventional or not he is a GREAT DOCTOR. I am very sorry for the family’s loss but I don’t believe that Dr Kerry (not Kelly)would ever hurt this or any patient intentionally. He takes an unconvetional approach sometimes but I have found it has made my life and serveral of my family members lives better. We have not suffered from Autism but we other issues and I know that he has always been right on when conventional Doctors have missed the mark. I hope that Dr Kerry’s life’s work is not completely destroyed over this tragic incident.

  11. #11 HCN
    September 10, 2007

    Jennifer,

    Sorry to burst your bubble… but a “great doctor” would not ignore the warnings on the packaging of the drug they administer.

    This blogger,
    http://mikestanton.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/kerry-charged-over-tariqs-death/ … left a very good summation over here:
    http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/2007/08/dan-doctor-charged-in-chelation-death.html#2237506147426680795

    … which says:
    Roy, Kerry, an ENT specialist with no board certification in pediatrics or autism is contacted by Dr Usman from Defeat Autism Now! about Tariq, a five year old autistic patient. She says he has high levels of aluminium and wants him to perform chelation with an IV infusion of calcium disodium EDTA (Versenate). Kerry does not use Versenate. He does chelate adults with disodium EDTA (Endrate) on a regular basis.

    What should the good doctor do?
    A)Say, “Sorry, I cannot treat this child?”
    B)Order some Versenate?
    C)Chelate him with Endrate?

    Kerry chose C.

    Tariq is brought to the surgery. Mum has left most of his medical notes in the UK but the doctor is consulting with Dr Usman via the telephone.

    Kerry’s case notes record that Tariq is “very energetic” and “happy.”

    Because Tariq is so lively Kerry does not think he will be tolerate the recommended slow infusion. Decision time again

    A)Say, “Sorry, I cannot treat this child?”
    B)Postpone the treatment.
    C)Give a concentrated solution via rapid IV push rather than a dilute solution via slow infusion.

    Kerry chose C.

    Even so it takes his mother plus three other adults and a papoose board to restrain Tariq while Kerry chelates him.

    After chelation the lab reports levels of lead in the normal range. no mention of any other metals except iron, which is low.

    Decision time again

    A)Say, “Your child does not need this treatment.”
    B)Recommend treatment for iron deficiency.
    C)Repeat the treatment.

    Kerry chose C. The second time he supervised a medical assistant who administered the IV push. Kerry was surprized that Tariq’s levels for lead were still low. So he decided to chelate again. Or, rather, he left his medical assistant to carry out the final IV push alone. The treatment was obviously having some effect. She only had to call on one other doctor, this time, to restrain Tariq while she administered the fatal dose.

    So, I am sorry Gradguy, if you have to find another doctor. You may have to live with your pain. But, unlike Tariq, at least you have that option.

  12. #12 Dee
    September 10, 2007

    HCN,
    First off, unless you have been personally treated by Dr. Kerry you shouldn’t pass judgement on all of his work. Second of all, since he wasn’t even the one who had administed the treatment on this poor child, it wasn’t his incompetence it was another professinal in his office, and he is the one who is taking the fall. Dr. Kerry helped me when no other Dr’s did. I was seen by many Dr’s and he is the ONLY one who was able to help me. The Mayo Clinic wasn’t even able to help me! Dr. Kerry is a wonderful Dr. I hope Dr. Kerry’s good name is redeemed and that he can continue to practice so that I am able to continue on with a Dr that I trust. I am sorry that a child is no longer here on this earth b/c of a wrong treatment, but the parents could have stopped treating with Dr Kerry before this ever happened if they so chose. You are entitled to your opinion, but don’t attack the rest of us for the sticking up for him when he has helped my family like no other Dr around. It was an accident, and in case you are unaware, Dr’s are human too, and NO ONE is perfect.

  13. #13 Dee
    September 10, 2007

    HCN,
    First off, unless you have been personally treated by Dr. Kerry you shouldn’t pass judgement on all of his work. Second of all, since he wasn’t even the one who had administed the treatment on this poor child, it wasn’t his incompetence it was another professinal in his office, and he is the one who is taking the fall. Dr. Kerry helped me when no other Dr’s did. I was seen by many Dr’s and he is the ONLY one who was able to help me. The Mayo Clinic wasn’t even able to help me! Dr. Kerry is a wonderful Dr. I hope Dr. Kerry’s good name is redeemed and that he can continue to practice so that I am able to continue on with a Dr that I trust. I am sorry that a child is no longer here on this earth b/c of a wrong treatment, but the parents could have stopped treating with Dr Kerry before this ever happened if they so chose. You are entitled to your opinion, but don’t attack the rest of us for the sticking up for him when he has helped my family like no other Dr around. It was an accident, and in case you are unaware, Dr’s are human too, and NO ONE is perfect.

  14. #14 HCN
    September 10, 2007

    If you read what I wrote, you would see that I was quoting Mike Stanton.

    Now answer this question: Did Kerry ever stock calcium disodium EDTA (Versenate) in his office?

    Why did he go against the instructions from Usman?

    Why did he ignore the warnings on the Endrate about the use of that drug?

    Also, my opinion mean nothing, and neither do yours (along with whatever supporters are dragged over by some kind of announcement). What does matter now are the criminal courts of the state of Pennsylvania, and the court that the civil suit brought by the child’s parents is in.

  15. #15 jennifer
    September 10, 2007

    Well if all of our opinions don’t matter why are all of you bashing him. I believe that I can tell the other side of the story a success story and so can a lot of people that I know that believe in him and his practices. Also let me burst your bubble a lot of Doctor’s ignore the warnings on labels because they “believe” in their personal experiences and a “WARNING” is just that it may or may not affect you. So my prayers are with the family of the child and Dr. Kerry for a quick resolution. I am sure that it will be a long time till either of them can move on from this childs death (yes even Dr. Kerry) I believe in him and more than that the personal experience I have had with him. There are risks w/every medical procedure you do. I have been in the medical world for over 10 years and I have seen a lot and I guarantee you he isn’t the only Dr. to have something like this happen!!!!!

  16. #16 jennifer
    September 10, 2007

    Well if all of our opinions don’t matter why are all of you bashing him. I believe that I can tell the other side of the story a success story and so can a lot of people that I know that believe in him and his practices. Also let me burst your bubble a lot of Doctor’s ignore the warnings on labels because they “believe” in their personal experiences and a “WARNING” is just that it may or may not affect you. So my prayers are with the family of the child and Dr. Kerry for a quick resolution. I am sure that it will be a long time till either of them can move on from this childs death (yes even Dr. Kerry) I believe in him and more than that the personal experience I have had with him. There are risks w/every medical procedure you do. I have been in the medical world for over 10 years and I have seen a lot and I guarantee you he isn’t the only Dr. to have something like this happen!!!!!

  17. #17 Dee
    September 10, 2007

    I saw that you were quoting someone, but why would you insert it if you didn’t agree with what it said?

    Also, as I stated unless you have personal experience you or anyone else who thinks he is a “quack” has no ground to stand on. I am certain there are plenty of other situations when something bad has resulted from a treatment. And the Dr was probably brought up on a malpractice suit rather than criminal charges.

    The issue is that Dr Kerry is slightly unconventional but he loves and gives great care to his patients and is exxtremely intelligent. What happened in that office was an accident-not murder. He would have never set out to hurt/murder anyone, period.

    Furthermore, I don’t know what he stocks in his cabinets b/c I don’t go through his cabinets. And that is not the issue, would ask your family doctor what they stock in their cabinets?? The issue is that something bad happened to a small child. it’s very tragic and nothing can change what happened that day, but it was an accident.

    I hope that he is cleared in this case and that he will continue to practice. No one says you have to go to him, but there are plenty of us out here who rely on his knowledge and trust him to treat us on a regular basis.

  18. #18 Joe
    September 10, 2007

    Jennifer wrote: “… There are risks w/every medical procedure you do. …”

    Most of the best nonsense has a kernel of fact. Yes, medical procedures usually entail risks. Therefore, we weigh the risk versus the potential benefit. In this case, there was no (zero, bupkis, zip) possibility that chelation would be a benefit to the child. Doctor Kerry had a duty to know this; and the literature is not even obscure.

    And so, even from a distance, one can conclude that this doctor’s ignorance is dangerous, no matter how well-meaning he may be.

  19. #19 HCN
    September 10, 2007

    Quoting this blog post again:
    http://mikestanton.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/kerry-charged-over-tariqs-death/

    This suggests that maybe Kerry used the “right” version of EDTA on the first two occassions and his assistant administered the fatal dose of the “wrong EDTA in his absence. But this contradicts these statements in the official record of the Pennsylvania State Board of Medicine.

    72. Respondent stated to Inspector Reiser that disodium EDTA is the only form of EDTA that he stocks in his office.

    73. Respondent admits that CaNa2EDTA is available but he has never used this agent.

  20. #20 HCN
    September 10, 2007

    “Well if all of our opinions don’t matter why are all of you bashing him.”

    Because he killed a little boy… a healthy little boy whose only “crime” was that he was autistic.

    His mother had been convinced through places like a Yahoo Autism-Mercury group that her son was broken, and needed a dangerous procedure to fix him.

    Like most human beings it saddens us when children die for no good reason. Why do you think a person who made so many medical errors… like not even following the instructions on the only kind of chelator he stocked… should go off scot free, to possibly kill again?

  21. #21 Jennifer
    September 10, 2007

    Then why does the mother have no responsibilty or how about the group that encourages it. It has obviously had benefits in the past that Dr Kerry would continue to use it. Dr Kerry isn’t a killer. I am sure that he weighed the risks and explained them to the parents and they were willing to accept the risks!!! I believe we all have a responsibilty to our children or even our own health and I investigate everything before I let my children undergo anything and I know the risks. I feel for this mother but I don’t believe that she was hoodwinked or swindled I am sure she knew what could happen and was willing to take that risk with her own child’s life.

  22. #22 Ruth
    September 10, 2007

    I am the mother of an autistic child, and a trained toxicologist. Any intro tox book will explain that the calcium, not the sodium salt of EDTA must be used for treatment of heavy metal poisoning, as Na2EDTA can bind enough calcium to cause cardiac arrest. The blood levels of this patient were not high enough to justify the risk of chelation. The wrong form of EDTA was used, which resulted in cardiac arrest of a 5 year old child. Your defense is meaningless. Whatever his intentions, Dr. Kerry made basic errors that resulted in the death of a child, when no actual benefit was likely. Autism is not the result of heavy metal poisong, so the treatment was useless.

  23. #23 Dee
    September 10, 2007

    You go, Jenn! I agree completely with what you are writing! The parents had to consent to this treatment, and while it is a sad thing, they could have stopped treating with Dr Kerry if they thought it was the wrong treatment. Nobody said it wasn’t tragic, but the childs death was not intentional. If his parents felt he was such a healthy little boy then he shouldn’t have been receiving any treatments at all.

  24. #24 Joe
    September 10, 2007

    Jennifer wrote “I feel for this mother but I don’t believe that she was hoodwinked or swindled I am sure she knew what could happen and was willing to take that risk with her own child’s life.”

    You are back to the “risk” (which could have been mitigated). The mother is not a health-care professional and was clearly bamboozled by someone. But, imagine she had been properly informed that there was a risk; and also there was no possible benefit (as she should have been told). If she did not understand that, the doctor had a duty to understand it and refuse to chelate.

    Get it? The treatment was bogus and anyone applying it should face the most severe sanctions for placing a patient at risk; even if nobody dies. It was not a “mistake” by the doctor, it was premeditated.

  25. #25 Joe
    September 10, 2007

    Dee wrote “{snip} the childs death was not intentional.”

    Another kernel of irrelevant fact. The child’s death was not intentional; but it was entirely avoidable. If Dr. Kerry were competent, he would never have performed the procedure. Get it?

  26. #26 Dee
    September 10, 2007

    Joe wrote… “It was not a “mistake” by the doctor, it was premeditated.”
    You are a total PSYCHO! Dr Kerry would NEVER have premditated the death of a child. Don’t talk about someon you know nothing about as a person. All you know is the crap you have read.

  27. #27 Prometheus
    September 10, 2007

    To all apologists for Dr. Kerry,

    Despite the CDC’s “weasel words”, the facts about the death of Abubakar Nadama show that Dr. Kerry was grossly negligent, perhaps even recklessly negligent, in his treatment.

    [1] Autism has not been shown to be caused by mercury, lead or aluminium “toxicity” – although that was what Dr. Kerry was treating Abubakar for.

    [2] Even if autism were caused by lead or mercury, NaEDTA (the drug Dr. Kerry administered) has never been approved or used for lead or mercury toxicity.

    [3] The form of EDTA (CaNaEDTA) that is approved for the treatment of lead (but not mercury) toxicity is no longer a first-line treatment (since the late 1980′s). DMSA is more effective, safer and can be given orally.

    [4] By his own admission, Dr. Kerry has never stocked CaNaEDTA in his office and has never used it.

    [5] The NaEDTA administered to Abubakar was given IV push (rapid intravenous infusion – over a matter of seconds). The package insert for NaEDTA specifically warns that:

    “Rapid IV infusion or a high serum concentration of edetate disodium may cause a sudden drop in serum calcium concentration which may result in hypocalcemic tetany, seizures, severe cardiac arrhythmias, and death from respiratory arrest.”

    This is precisely what happened.

    [6] The amount of NaEDTA that Abubakar received was exactly the amount prescribed by Dr. Kerry, given in exactly the manner prescribed by Dr. Kerry. The fact that his wasn’t the hand on the plunger in no way exonerates him or excuses him from blame.

    Now, Dr. Kerry may be a Prince among doctors and may have miraculous healing powers that his patients rave about. However, if there is no surprise evidence showing that the facts are substantially different from those listed above (all available in the public domain), then Dr. Kerry has shown – at the least – staggeringly poor judgement.

    Whether that poor judgement rises to the level of homicide will be for the jury to decide.

    Prometheus

  28. #28 HCN
    September 10, 2007

    Kerry is being accused of being completely incompetent:

    He ignored the orders of Usman, and used the drug he had on hand (in fact that the only stuff he even stocked, as he has admitted that to investigaters). That would be gross negligence.

    He did not follow the instructions on the use of that drug, that were written on the packaging and used too much too fast. That would be gross negligence.

    He even strapped the poor boy down to facilitate the fast infusion of a dangerous drug. That is gross inhumanity, and pure torture.

    Dee screamed “All you know is the crap you have read.”

    Exactly. That “crap” includes documents from the Pennsylvania Board of Medicine:
    http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/kerry/complaint.shtml

    Since you seem reluctant to click and read it yourself, here are some highlights:

    33. A typical insert from the drug manufacturer of the drug Endrate is attached hereto and incorporated by reference as Exhibit 1.

    34. Disodium EDTA is a sterile solution of the disodium salt of the synthetic chemical, ethylenediamine tetraacetic acid (EDTA), and water for injection.

    35. Disodium EDTA are indicated in selected patients for the emergency treatment of hypercalcemia and in control of ventricular arrhythmias associated with digitalis toxicity.

    36. Disodium EDTA increases excretion of heavy metals and, importantly, minerals, such as calcium.

    37. Tariq was not diagnosed with hypercalcemia.

    38. Tariq was not diagnosed with digitalis toxicity.

    39. The second formula of EDTA is Edetate Calcium Disodium (hereafter referred to as CaNa2EDTA).

    40. CaNa2EDTA Edetate Disodium with added calcium to counter the risks associated with Disodium EDTA.

    41. CaNa2EDTA is indicated for the reduction of blood levels and depot stores of lead in order to treat lead poisoning (acute and chronic) and lead encephalopathy in both pediatric populations and adults.

    42. Respondent never treated Tariq with CaNa2EDTA.

    43. A physician who previously treated Tariq. recommended treatment with CaNa2EDTA as recently as June 2005.

    ……………

    71. Respondent admitted to using Disodium EDTA to chelate Tariq.

    72. Respondent stated to Investigator Reiser that Disodiun EDTA is the only formula of EDTA he stocks in his office.

    73. Respondent admitted that CaNa2EDTA is available but that he has never used this agent.

    74. Respondent admits that he used the TV push because he did not believe that Tariq would be able to remain still and tolerate the one and 1/2 hours it takes to have the IV drip complete and therefore he administered the drug via IV push.

    …………….

    76. The opinion of the Chief Forensic Pathologist is that “Abu Bakar Tariq Nadama, a 5 year old African-American male, died as a result of diffuse, acute cerebral hypoxic-ischemic injury, secondary to diffuse subendocardial myocardial necrosis. Myoeardial necrosis is a result of hypocalcemia due to administration of EDTA.”

    77. Disodium EDTA carries the risk of upsetting the electrolyte balance of the blood in that it removes calcium, magnesium, zinc and other trace metals and causes potassium excretion.

    78. This effect has the potential to cause cardiac arrhythmias, seizures and death.

    79. Disodium EDTA carries a warning for the health care professional using the drug on a patient.

    80. This warning reads “rapid intravenous infusion or attainment of high serum concentration of edentate disodium may cause a precipitous drop in the serum calcium level and may result in fatality. Toxicity appears dependent upon both total dosage and speed of administration … the rate of administration and dosage should not exceed ‘that indicated in Dosage and Administration.”

    …..

  29. #29 Joe
    September 10, 2007

    Dee wrote “Joe wrote… “It was not a “mistake” by the doctor, it was premeditated.”
    You are a total PSYCHO! Dr Kerry would NEVER have premditated the death of a child. …”

    Richard Dawkins step aside, I have ascended to the ranks of “people quoted out of context.” Or, is it merely a straw man?

    I never said the death was premeditated, I said the bogus treatment was premeditated. The boy died as a result of a deliberate, but bogus, “therapy.”

  30. #30 Joe
    September 10, 2007

    Dee wrote “Joe wrote… “It was not a “mistake” by the doctor, it was premeditated.”
    You are a total PSYCHO! Dr Kerry would NEVER have premditated the death of a child. …”

    Richard Dawkins step aside, I have ascended to the ranks of “people quoted out of context.” Or, is it merely a straw man?

    I never said the death was premeditated, I said the bogus treatment was premeditated. The boy died as a result of a deliberate, but bogus, “therapy.”

  31. #31 Dee
    September 10, 2007

    First off, I have never screamed anything thus far. Secondly, I did read it. But I am talking about a personal attack on a wonderful Doctor. I know that he obviously had an error in judgement. But I also know he is very thorough in what he does. He must have had some reason for administering what he did. He isn’t someone who goes off half cocked and just gives treaments to people for no reason. Sounds like you are just jumping on the band wagon of bashing someone when all you know is what you have read online. I am guessing you do not personally know Dr Kerry, nor are you familiar with how many people he has been able to help in his practice over the years.

    Joe, I apologize for the misquoting-i guess i misread what you wrote since they were in 2 different sentences. However, Dr Kerry is a VERY competent Dr, and I can speak from personal experience on that one. I am certain plenty of things go wrong in the medical community everyday, and the public is just not always made aware of them.

  32. #32 Joe
    September 10, 2007

    Dee wrote “Joe, I apologize for the misquoting-i guess i misread what you wrote since they were in 2 different sentences. However, Dr Kerry is a VERY competent Dr …”

    Apolgy gladly accepted.

    However, what is your concept of “competent?” Dr. Kerry treated the boy with chelation, which has no therapeutic value for his condition. A reasonable person would not consider that competent.

  33. #33 mike stanton
    September 10, 2007

    To Jennifer and Dee,

    It is totally irrelevant to argue that his previous record as a doctor is a defence in the case of the death of Abubakar ‘Tariq’ Nadama. (Yes, he does have a name. I find it disrespectful to his memory when you refer to him as “this child.”)

    I could be the safest driver on the roads until the fateful day when I am driving dangerously and kill a child. Should I be exonerated because of my previous exemplary record or should I face the consequences of my actions?

  34. #34 Jennifer
    September 10, 2007

    You have got that right Dee. I can attest to that “I am certain plenty of things go wrong in the medical community everyday, and the public is just not always made aware of them.” I work in the medical field and I am privey to a lot of Physician errors and I can tell you that this happens to people everyday not just on autistic children but on all kinds of unsuspecting, trusting folks. I have great hope that Dr Kerry will have a fair and educated jury to go through this process. To the toxicologist my defense is not meaningless I believe that Dr Kerry has done this procedure in the past and if he felt that the procedure was effectively helping other patients so why wouldn’t he believe that this could help this child too. He clearly didn’t think that the child could stand for the 1 1/2 process that it would take so he believed that the child could handle the “push” It is unfortunate that some people aren’t able to see the good that he was trying to do and only believe that he was out to harm this child. I know that I do trust him and I am confident that as a human we make mistakes I don’t believe anyone can say they have gone one day in their life when they didn’t make a mistake but the ones we make aren’t this great. When you have practiced in medicine as long as he has, I am sure he felt he was making the right decision. I am sure that he regrets this mistake everyday and until you are in the shoes of someone who makes these life changing decisions everyday maybe you should at least respect the fact that he has been a pillar of the medical community for years and would bend over backwards for his patients. I am not negating the fact that an innocent child died I am simply stating we are all HUMAN!!! As far as I am concerned I will continue to see Dr Kerry as long as I can. I believe in him and trust him.

  35. #35 Joe
    September 10, 2007

    Mike Stanton wrote “… Abubakar ‘Tariq’ Nadama. (Yes, he does have a name. I find it disrespectful to his memory when you refer to him as “this child.”)”

    I appreciate this. Ihave felt bad that I did not look back and find his name.

  36. #36 Dee
    September 10, 2007

    Competent is that he has helped me and as well as my mother, and sisters with their health issues. Granted none of us have Autism, but we do have a variety of other aliments that he has completely treated us for, and we are all healthier b/c of him. Without Dr Kerry my health would still be in shambles. He has done nothing but help us, and I would trust him with MY life. He has never been off with the information that he has given to any of us. Dr Kerry doesn’t just blindly treat people. He does all of his research first and then administers the treatment he feels is necessary. For whatever reason, which may be unknown to all of us, he felt this was the right thing, or there was some form of miscommunication. He is not a “quack” and he is not crazy. He has always been right on for us, and even though he is slightly unconventional in some of his approaches they have always worked for me.

  37. #37 Dee
    September 10, 2007

    No disrespect has been meant by not using his name, but Abubakar ‘Tariq’ Nadama WAS a child nonetheless. Now you are just nitpicking something off the course of the conversation.

  38. #38 Jennifer
    September 10, 2007

    Joe and Mike,

    If this was me going through this situation I wouldn’t want a bunch of people who knew nothing about my child to keep using his name in vein. That is why out of respect I don’t.

  39. #39 HCN
    September 10, 2007

    Jennifer wrote “If this was me going through this situation I wouldn’t want a bunch of people who knew nothing about my child to keep using his name in vein.”

    That was a very insenstitive and tasteless joke! How dare you use the word “vein” instead of “vain” knowing that Tariq was killed with a fast IV push of EDTA directly into his veins!

    Which you then followed with: “That is why out of respect I don’t. ”

    Then don’t post nasty nasty jokes.

  40. #40 Orac
    September 10, 2007

    Dee and Jennifer:

    I see that someone has directed you to my post, nearly three weeks after I posted it. I go to work for the day, and when I get home I find many new comments to what is, blogospherically-speaking, a rather old post. Let me just ask you something: If Dr. Kerry was a “conventional” doctor, rather than a doctor who uses “alternative” methods and killed a patient so cleanly with a “conventional” treatment, would you be so quick to defend him?

    I doubt it. Your selective outrage over treatment-related deaths is most telling.

    The bottom line, as several of my regular commenters have pointed out above, is that Kerry showed such a gross level of incompetence and lack of care in the case of Abubakar Tariq Nadama, that it arguably rises to the level or reckless homicide. Not only did he prescribe a treatment that has no evidence to support it and thus had in essence zero chance of benefiting Tariq but he did it in such an incompetent, reckless, and–dare I say it?–cruel way (the IV push that hurts to give) that at the very least he should be stripped of his medical license immediately in order to prevent him from ever endangering another patient like that again.

    If you want to know the reasons why I have come to that conclusion, besides this article, here are several others that I have written in the two years since Tariq died:

    1. Sadly, it was only a matter of time: An autistic boy dies during chelation therapy
    2. Selective outrage over treatment-related deaths
    3. The autopsy results on Abubakar Tariq Nadama
    4. The CDC flubs it
    5. Justice for Abubakar Tariq Nadama at last?
    6. The complaint against Dr. Roy Kerry, negligent killer of Abubakar Tariq Nadama
    7. Another clean kill by chelation

    Read them, and don’t give me this “oh, it happens” attitude.

  41. #41 Joe
    September 10, 2007

    So, Dee- Dr. Kerry, killed 5-year-old Abubakar ‘Tariq’ Nadama through gross incompetence; and you can overlook that? Who does he have to kill, through incompetence, to get your attention?

    I reiterate- this was a deliberate, incompetent action, not inadvertent.

  42. #42 Orac
    September 10, 2007

    It’s also a case where “good intentions” do not make up for the results of Dr. Kerry’s incompetence.

  43. #43 sfbooklady
    September 10, 2007

    Dee and Jennifer – read this thread again. Note that all the defense of Dr. Kerry is based on anecdotal information and subjective experience. Those attacking him “personally” are doing so with evidence. You can dismiss the “evidence” as “just stuff read on the internet”, but that is clearly untrue. Your argument is not sound.

  44. #44 Jennifer
    September 10, 2007

    I apologize about “vein” that was unintentional I would never make a joke about that.

  45. #45 Jennifer
    September 11, 2007

    re:Let me just ask you something: If Dr. Kerry was a “conventional” doctor, rather than a doctor who uses “alternative” methods and killed a patient so cleanly with a “conventional” treatment, would you be so quick to defend him?

    I do know what it is like for a “conventional” Doctor to make a mistake my 2 year old nephew who is now a quadrapoligic does too. And I know what it feels like to believe that something can help and if there is a miracle you want or need to try it. Especially with people saying well it would have probably been better if he died since he has “no quality of life” and so you press on and you want to believe there is a miracle cure or something that can change the fate or the future of this baby. I am sure when Tariq’s mother and father decided to try this approach they never dreamed this could happen. The Dr’s are ultimately responsible for what happens in their care. I don’t believe anyone can really say what Dr Kerry’s intentions were that day or the Dr’s who were doing their job one day when my nephew came into the ER after being in a car accident caused by a drunk driver and they went to fix his spleen and moved him the wrong way and severed his spinal cord. I don’t believe they walked into work and thought who am I going to paralize today I believe they wanted to help and something went terribly wrong. Now my nephew who was perfect now will never walk again. You could say that it was the fault of the cops that were chasing the drunk driver you could say that it was fault of the drunk driver you could say it was the surgeon’s when they moved him w/out a back board. How ever you look at it, it is a tragedy. Do I believe that Dr. Kerry’s intentions were to hurt or kill Tariq – NO. This my belief from my experiences with him. They are valid and these are my rights. Do I believe there are bad people in this world – YES. I don’t believe that Dr. Kerry is one of them and I don’t think the surgeon’s that were working on my nephew are either they were just trying to do their job. So when you say I wouldn’t be so quick to defend a “Conventional” Doc think again. They are HUMAN just like you and I we all put are pants on the same way. So I am going to say IT HAPPENS!!!!!

  46. #46 Dee
    September 11, 2007

    You all are entitled to your opinions, however there is nothing you can say to make me change how I feel about Dr Kerry. It wouldn’t matter if Dr Kerry was conventional or unconventional. If he had helped me when no other Dr was able to I would fight for him regardless. The fact is he has many patients who he has helped.

    FYI my informatin is not “anecdotal information and subjective experience”. My experience has produced fact in that my health has improved tri-fold since treating with Dr Kerry. So per your comment that my health is subjective experience and not fact I disagree. I will give you that my opinions and feelings are due to my experiences with him personally. However, if there is no fact involved, why is it that my mother and my sisters are also better since beginning treatment with him? I guess that is just our “experience” and our wellness is not fact.

    I am not saying that I don’t feel for Abubakar Tariq Nadama and his family, and that it was not a tragedy, because it definitely was. What I am stating is that he wouldn’t have set out to kill a child, especially in a “cruel and clean” way. He has never been anything expect kind and caring. He obviously felt that there was a reason for administering the treatment that he did. I don’t believe it was deliberate that he knew something horrible would happen b/c of it. If he had the push administered faster it was to save him pain and not to be cruel. I am not saying that there shouldn’t be some repercussion here, I know if it was my child how I would feel. But how many other Dr’s have a patient die on their watch? Or during surgery for that matter? What about other Dr’s that prescribe patients medication and screw up the script? I have an Aunt that almost died b/c she was prescribed the wrong type of medication b/c her Dr’s brain was on vacation. But that is my point. Everyone makes bad choices/decisions/mistakes from time to time. I am certain that he had the best of intentions and unfortunately it was the wrong choice this time. Not to mention that this is the same treatment that was administered 2 previous times with his parents noting they had seen improvement (per the news article I read 2 weeks ago.)

    From simply reading the articles online I see where some of you are coming from, but as a current patient, and continuing future one, there is nothing that any of you could say to make me feel otherwise. Good luck with your nonexperienced arguments.

  47. #47 Orac
    September 11, 2007

    Once again:

    Intentions don’t matter. It’s not that difficult a concept. Try telling Tariq that Dr. Kerry meant well. In fact, Dr. Kerry has revealed himself to be dangerously incompetent. As a simple matter of protecting the public, he clearly deserves to have his medical license stripped, so that he can never endanger unsuspecting patients again.

  48. #48 Dee
    September 11, 2007

    You all are entitled to your opinions, however there is nothing you can say to make me change how I feel about Dr Kerry. It wouldn’t matter if Dr Kerry was conventional or unconventional. If he had helped me when no other Dr was able to I would fight for him regardless. The fact is he has many patients who he has helped.

    FYI my informatin is not “anecdotal information and subjective experience”. My experience has produced fact in that my health has improved tri-fold since treating with Dr Kerry. So per your comment that my health is subjective experience and not fact I disagree. I will give you that my opinions and feelings are due to my experiences with him personally. However, if there is no fact involved, why is it that my mother and my sisters are also better since beginning treatment with him? I guess that is just our “experience” and our wellness is not fact.

    I am not saying that I don’t feel for Abubakar Tariq Nadama and his family, and that it was not a tragedy, because it definitely was. What I am stating is that he wouldn’t have set out to kill a child, especially in a “cruel and clean” way. He has never been anything expect kind and caring. He obviously felt that there was a reason for administering the treatment that he did. I don’t believe it was deliberate that he knew something horrible would happen b/c of it. If he had the push administered faster it was to save him pain and not to be cruel. I am not saying that there shouldn’t be some repercussion here, I know if it was my child how I would feel. But how many other Dr’s have a patient die on their watch? Or during surgery for that matter? What about other Dr’s that prescribe patients medication and screw up the script? I have an Aunt that almost died b/c she was prescribed the wrong type of medication b/c her Dr’s brain was on vacation. But that is my point. Everyone makes bad choices/decisions/mistakes from time to time. I am certain that he had the best of intentions and unfortunately it was the wrong choice this time. Not to mention that this is the same treatment that was administered 2 previous times with his parents noting they had seen improvement (per the news article I read 2 weeks ago.)

    From simply reading the articles online I see where some of you are coming from, but as a current patient, and continuing future one, there is nothing that any of you could say to make me feel otherwise. Good luck with your nonexperienced arguments.

  49. #49 sfbooklady
    September 11, 2007

    The “conventional” doctors were attempting to save a life using methods that have been shown to work. Dr. Kerry was using a treatment that DOES NOT WORK.
    1. There is no evidence that autism is caused by “heavy metal poisoning” in the first place. They no longer use thimerosal in vaccines, yet the incidence of autism has not gone down.
    Thus, using chelation does nothing but expose the patient to the risk of the side effects without the benefit of a possible cure.
    Look at the studies. A collection of people, no matter how well-intentioned, giving anectdotal evidence is not how to decide if something works or not. Double-blind, scientific testing is.

  50. #50 sfbooklady
    September 11, 2007

    Actually, patient health is usually subjective. We “feel better”. Autism patients “seem better”.
    Dr. Kerry may have helped many people; this does not change the fact that he was using a dangerous and completely unproven treatment.

  51. #51 sfbooklady
    September 11, 2007

    “however there is nothing you can say to make me change how I feel about Dr Kerry.”
    This is exactly the problem.

  52. #52 HCN
    September 11, 2007

    Dee, you seem to be spending lots of energy defending an elderly doctor who:

    1) Ignored the instructions of a referring physician.
    2) Ignored the dosing warnings on the drug he was using.
    3) In the end, the result of this incompetence, killed a young child.

    What kind of disease do you have to put yourself at risk with a doctor who cannot even read and understand the information on the drug he does stock?

    Either you are desparate or very very stupid.

  53. #53 Dee
    September 11, 2007

    My disease is none of your business, and I am highly intelligent. When you see many Dr’s who don’t help you and find one who does you stick by him. If any of you knew him and had received personal treatment from him you wouldn’t be responding this way. My mother is alive b/c of Dr Kerry. She was misdiagnosed repeatedly and he was the only one who was able to help her also.
    You must be mentally unstable to not understand that.

  54. #54 sfbooklady
    September 11, 2007

    Dr. Kerry may have the best of intentions. He may have helped you when no one else could, and others close to you. However, there are facts here.
    Dr. Kerry used an unproven therapy with known risks on a child.
    Even in scientific studies this is unethical.
    Do you deny that chelation is an unproven theory? Then you deny the scientific method entirely.
    You are relying on an emotional argument and not a rational one, and medicine doesn’t work that way. What we want to be true isn’t what we use, or we’d all be back when people just prayed and let God take care of it.

  55. #55 Kev
    September 11, 2007

    “My disease is none of your business, and I am highly intelligent. When you see many Dr’s who don’t help you and find one who does you stick by him”

    Yeah, right. I’m guessing that mainstream doctors can’t help you and your pal Jennifer here because there’s nothing wrong with you. Kerry saw you as two mugs ripe for the picking. Careful he doesn’t kill you next.

    Oh and if you want someone to whine about your hypochondeia to, these guys would probably be just as happy to take your money.

  56. #56 Jennifer
    September 11, 2007

    Kev,

    Unless you know or have ever been in a situation where you need a Doctor like this you can’t understand when someone is willing to go above and beyond the call of the Pharmacutical companies and take a stand for what they believe. I guarantee you Dr. Kerry is not one of the hundreds of thousands of Doc’s that receive a check on a monthly basis just for giving people meds that the reps will pay for and not necessarily what is right for the patient. So the next time you are sick I really hope that you don’t run into one of those Doc’s because believe me they are out there and they aren’t going to tell you about the check they are receiving so that they can make their office bigger and they aren’t going to take you on their next trip out of the country. So just keep that in mind when they are writing your script!!!

    Further more I am not sure why you sound so hostle but maybe you would benefit from a prescription!!! Go see your DOC!!!

  57. #57 Kev
    September 11, 2007

    I’m hostile Jennifer because you two clowns are falling over yourselves to forgive a child-killer. Tariq was autistic, just like my daughter, and parents are taken in by the bulls**t words of people like Roy Kerry every day.

    You and your pal Dee here are idiots. Maybe there’s a quack cure for that too.

  58. #58 Jennifer
    September 11, 2007

    first of all I am not a clown and second of all I am not just willing to forgive any one for killing a child but everyone acts like Dr. Kerry sought out Tarik and said “I’m going to kill him” when what I am saying is from MY experience w/Dr. Kerry wouldn’t set out to do that. And that he has helped me and several family members. Maybe if I had never been a patient I would not be able to say these things about Dr Kerry. Because believe me I am very upset about Tarik and for the how and why this happened. But that doesn’t mean that he never helped me and thousands of other patients and that he didn’t care. I am sorry for Tariq for any suffering and I pray that his family can heal however my experience w/him has not been bad so that is why I am posting my feelings about Dr Kerry good people can make bad mistakes and I don’t know why he did what he did and neither do you or anyone else that wants to slam him. I do know however from personal experience w/him and yes I know that it isn’t scientific (my experience) but I believe that I need to at least tell the other side of story. So if I am not allowed to do this or people don’t like what I have to say and all you can do is call me names well so be it still doesn’t change what he has done for me and that is scientifically been proven by my test results.

  59. #59 sfbooklady
    September 11, 2007

    jennifer, I’m glad he could help you and others, whatever your disease is.
    But what if, when your nephew was brought into the hospital, the nurse had come to you and said: “the surgeons say that because of the damage he will be autistic. But if you want they will do a procedure that isn’t supposed to be used for this condition and there are no studies to show that it works.” Would you have said to go ahead?

  60. #60 Dee
    September 11, 2007

    Kev,
    You need to grow up. I said before what I needed to say. Just b/c I don’t have autism doesn’t mean i don’t have some other major health disorders. I am sorry your child has it, and you have such strong feelings about Dr Kerry. But attacking Jennifer and myself for our beliefs is just plain wrong. For your information I have a few autoimmune diseases, and Dr Kerry’s treatments are the ONLY ones that fully helped resolve my issues. I don’t know if someone like you, who obviously lives in a small dark closet happy with his ignorance, is familiar with the MAYO clinic or not but the MAYO clinic diagnosed me. Only their treatment didn’t help me, and Dr Kerry’s did.

    PS if you are going to to slam someone try using a spell check(hypochondeia) You’re a smart guy.

  61. #61 Jennifer
    September 11, 2007

    I know your intentions are good, but Dr Kerry didn’t force any procedure on these people and they opted to go forward with the procedure. Knowing Dr Kerry like I do I am certain he told them about the risks involved before the consented to try it. And yes my nephew has had many experimental procedures done to try to help him be able to walk again.

  62. #62 Joe
    September 11, 2007

    Jennifer wrote “Knowing Dr Kerry like I do I am certain he told them about the risks involved before the consented to try it.”

    We have been through this before. Let me try this way. Knowing Dr. Kerry like you do, are you certain that he told them that this risky procedure would not do anything beneficial for Tariq?

  63. #63 Joseph
    September 11, 2007

    I don’t believe for a minute that Dr. Kerry really helps people (beyond any placebo effect). I do believe that patients think he does, just like patients of a Homeopathic doctor would.

    This much is clear. He tried to treat Tariq’s autism with chelation. Either he believes in quackery, or he was intentionally giving Tariq a dangerous placebo.

    In that sense, what he did is no different to this:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/25/national/main570077.shtml

  64. #64 Dee
    September 11, 2007

    Blood test results, when on actual medication, do not produce a placebo affect. Homeopathic supplements DO help people. My regular, conventional medical Dr has me taking certain supplements as well. Sound like you aren’t happy unless someone is loading you with actual drugs, rather than vitamins and minerals. Joseph-believe what you want, but I would rather not take all sort of prescriptions if I can take vitamins to produce the same effect. But if you need drugs, than maybe you should go and get some.

  65. #65 HCN
    September 11, 2007

    Dee said “The Mayo Clinic wasn’t even able to help me!”

    Which Mayo Clinic? The one in Minnesota, Arizona or Florida? What did you hear about Kerry to make you move from one of those three places to Pennsylvania?

    Oh, oh… she also said “Homeopathic supplements DO help people.” Hmmm… what percentage of active ingredient are in those supplements? Is the typical homeopathic sugar pill which may have been waved somewhere in the vicinity of a solution of one part of something (sea salt, vomica plant, belladonna, etc) to the amount of water that would be in the equivalent to all seas of the several planets put together.

    Regular supplements are not a problem. My doc says I need to take calcium because I am post-menopausal.

    Dee continued “Joseph-believe what you want, but I would rather not take all sort of prescriptions if I can take vitamins to produce the same effect. But if you need drugs, than maybe you should go and get some.”

    Did I miss something? Where did Joseph say anything about prescriptions and drugs?

    Actually, the biggest problem with Tariq was that he was give a very strong DRUG too much too fast by Kerry (who would not follow the referring doctors direction, nor could he be bothered to follow the use instructions from the manufacturer of the DRUG he used!).

    Actually, the most useful treatment for autistic kids are NOT drugs… but good educational interventions, speech therapy, and having understanding parents. Which, from my knowledge of Joseph is the type of treatment for children he favors over pushing chelation (which is a DRUG) on children: http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/

  66. #66 Dee
    September 11, 2007

    HCN,

    I am over discussing anything with you b/c you like to twist my words, and not see both sides of the coin. I didn’t say I moved to PA, for all you know I traveled to the MAYO clinic b/c of my health, or I travel to PA b/c of Dr Kerry. Which MAYO makes no difference.

    And you obviously haven’t been paying attention. Joseph said that “I don’t believe for a minute that Dr. Kerry really helps people (beyond any placebo effect). I do believe that patients think he does, just like patients of a Homeopathic doctor would.” My test results, which are blood test results, prove otherwise from what he was saying. That is my point. And so a homeopathic doctor can’t help people? Why don’t you get off my back, I am entitled to my opinions. I believe that he had his reasons for using what he did. He IS a good doctor that made a bad choice. Dr Kerry does more than treat children with Autism, he treats all different types of people. He is trained in many different areas. And possibly not enough in that particular instance. I am not dimishing what happened, but that is not his only patient, and some of us do rely on his knowledge in other areas to help us. And you can bash me in your post menopausal state all you want b/c you obviously have nothing better than to try to tear someone apart for standing up for what they believe in. Base your opinions on one of thousands upon thousands of his patients. As far as I am concerned unless you have worked with Dr Kerry personally your opinions of him hold no validity.

    You wrote…”Actually, the biggest problem with Tariq was that he was give a very strong DRUG too much too fast by Kerry (who would not follow the referring doctors direction, nor could he be bothered to follow the use instructions from the manufacturer of the DRUG he used!).”

    I still think that for whatever reason he thought he was making the best decision based on what was discussed with Tariq’s parents. ALso note what I sid before-I am certain that he had the best of intentions and unfortunately it was the wrong choice this time. Not to mention that this is the same treatment that was administered 2 previous times with his parents noting they had seen improvement. They made the final decision based on the information they had researched and had been presented with. Dr Kerry has many of supportive patients that he HAS helped. It’s unfortunate this wasn’t one that it worked with.

    Oh and FYI, I use all natural homeopathic supplements-not that crap you probably get at Walgreens. And I don’t get it from Dr Kerry directly-just in case you were going to make a comment about how he is only out to make money. I have to be VERY careful with what I put into my body b/c of my disease. I don’t know what other homeopathic supplements you seemed to think I was talking about since your doctor told you that you “need to take calcium because” you are “post-menopausal” and that was ok, but when somene mentions it you feel the need to quote ingredient labels off God only knows what you have in front of you. Well, some of us need to take supplements to supplement the nutrients we CAN’T absorb any other way.

    I don’t know what your relationship is with Joseph, but all I am saying is that everyone here seems to bash myself and Jennifer for standing up for what OUR opinions are. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and now you have heard mine.

    Oh, and I also notice how no one has commented about Jennifers quadriplegic nephew-guess that means conventional DR’s make mistakes to, huh? If this was a conventional Dr here would so many of you still be bashing him? I highly doubt it!

  67. #67 sfbooklady
    September 11, 2007

    Dee -
    all-natural homeopathy or not, it doesn’t matter. Homeopathy is based on the idea that a little bit of something bad will help prevent a lot of something bad from causing illness. Sort of makes sense, like making antivenin out of snake venom. But here’s the problem. That “little bit” of something – belladonna, nux vomica, whatever – is diluted out of existence in those pills. To the point where if you analyzed it you’d find nothing of the original substance – just the inert ingredients.
    The only way for homeopathy to work would be if dilution made chemicals more powerful – which is what homeopaths claim. This would mean not just that doctors being wrong about homeopathy not working, but chemists and physicists too. It is possible that some of our basic ideas about chemistry and physics are wrong, but that would be quite a claim to make, and the evidence for homeopathy working is nowhere near enough.
    I tried several homeopathic remedies and they didn’t seem to work for me, and than I found this out. They’re selling expensive sugar pellets and I’m not giving them my money anymore.

  68. #68 Dee
    September 11, 2007

    I hear where you are coming from booklady, but I am on supplements, like I said, per my doctor. I am not taking about hoempathic remedies, I am talking about vitamin supplements-which you can buy through vitamin stores, or a homeopathic herbalist. And if you don’t feel they did anything for you then I wouldn’t recommend you wasting your money on them. However, my PCP is the one who recommended I start taking the supplements, and since they have improved my issues, I will continue with them(my issues by the way are not anything I have mentally conjured up.) I just think you missed my whole point with the fact that there are some good homeopathic things out there that can help people.

    I would be willing to bet that none of you believe in chiropractors either. And my chirporactor did more for me after my car accident than any regular Dr could do. In fact, since after 2 months of miserable pain my regular Dr couldn’t help me, HE sent me to my chirporactor. With in 2 wks I was feeling better! I believe in exploring alternative methods.

  69. #69 sfbooklady
    September 11, 2007

    Dee,
    I take vitamins and supplements, but I would be wary of anything that says “homeopathic” on it – from my understanding extreme dilution is what makes it homeopathy in the first place. If I were you I’d check to see how much of that vitamin or mineral you’re actually getting.
    As for chiropractors- at one point I did something to my neck and couldn’t turn my head to the left. I went to a friend’s chiropractor and he made it so I could. So I believe it works for that. But I don’t think, as some do, that all disease can be cured through manipulation of the spine.

  70. #70 Dee
    September 11, 2007

    Well i don’t think they can cure everything, but I think there are a lot of aliments they canimprove with it. You seem like you are at least open to considering different possibilities for things. I am not negating what happened, but just saying there is a good and bad side to everything. i just want people to realize that even though he made a MAJOR miscalculation, there are still other people who depend on him for things other than Autism treatments. And for some of us there is no other doctor we can trust b/c he is the only one who has helped us.

  71. #71 Melissa G
    September 11, 2007

    My medical advice, FWIW: feed a fever, starve a troll.

  72. #72 TheProbe
    September 12, 2007

    Dear Dee:

    I feel sorry for you. You have bought into the wild wacky world of woo. Your “condition” probably was psychosomatic, and when Dr. Kerry “cared” he cured you. As for the lab tests, WX4 doctors, like Kerry, often use dubious laboraqtories tojustify their continuing treatment of people who have nothing really wrong with them.

    I would suggest that you try to get a clue, but, I expect that you would dilute that clue 30X and then 30X, etc…

  73. #73 Jennifer
    September 12, 2007

    theprobe,

    Are you insane? Are you really that paranoid that you would believe that a Federal or State Governed Medical Facility would falsify documents to please a doctor. If you have ever worked in the medical field you know how strick regulations are. What planet do you live on Days of our Lives? How dare you presume to know Dee’s disease and how dare you lessen it. That is discusting that there are people like you that would really be that cruel I think she is entitled to her opinion about Dr Kerry or Dr Kevorkian is she wants. That doesn’t call for a personal attack!!!!!!!! And if you really read what she said and not between the lines you would see that she said that she was Diagnosed by the Mayo Clinic not that that would matter. So when did the spaceships bring you back? Why don’t you live in the real world!!!! Maybe you ought see seek help for your anger towards someone simply stating what she believes and what she has experienced and to boot someone that you don’t even know or know her situation. At least she is speaking from personal experience not just paranoia!!! Do you have a conspiracy theory too!!! OOOHHHH next thing you know you are going to say is that George Bush attached the USA!!!! Get a grip!!!!

  74. #74 Dee
    September 12, 2007

    FYI “TheProbe”, i didn’t have my blood even drawn by Dr Kerrys office, nor anywhere near it. I had a copy of the test results before he even saw them. You are a total moron, that has no business questioning my health or my disease. Besides that a least I am not ashamed to show my name, and not call myself “TheProbe” like a freaking space cadet.

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