Respectful Insolence

Send a message to Andrew Wakefield

Kevin Leitch informs me that DAN/ARI are asking people to leave a message for Andrew Wakefield.

Yes, that Andrew Wakefield, the man who almost single-handedly started a scare over the MMR vaccine, the man who was paid by lawyers and was either so clueless, careless, and/or dishonest (take your pick) that the lab where he did his research where he “found” measles RNA sequences in the guts of autistic children didn’t do even the most basic controls to eliminate false positives.

Not surprisingly, essentially all the messages are nauseatingly supportive and full of praise. Here’s a sample:


Thank you for sticking to your beliefs, for your energy and your resilience in the face of adversity.

I, and I am sure of it, many other French parents, wish you the very best for things going on!

Françoise Ayzac
France

You are a brave and dedicated physician. If only more medical professionals were as willing as you were in tnose early days to listen to parents and realize these children were dealing with serious gastrointestinal issues which related to their autism. You were willing to look for the truth and stand by it. Thank you for your integrity and sacrifice.

Brooke Potthast
Arlington, VA

My family and I cannot thank you enough for what you have done for the autism community. I cannot believe what the medical community is doing to you. But you must now there are lots of us in the United States believe in you, and support you. You are not alone. My son would never have progressed the way he has if it wasn’t for you and other doctors who speak up when they see something is wrong and should be questioned. I don’t know if you are a spiritual or religious person. But I have thanked God many times for your tenacity and strength. I pray that you prevail. What we would do without you, I don’t want to imagine it. God Bless to you and your family.

Pam Thompson
Mission Viejo, Calif. USA

There aren’t enough words to thank you for advocating for our children in spite of what that has cost you. You are a hero of the true sense. We will forever be grateful for what you have done.

In our hearts forever,

Julie Obradovic
Homer Glen, IL USA

You get the idea. I quite like Kev’s message to Dr. Wakefield myself, but fear that it will never see the light of day. Nonetheless, I composed something along similar lines:

Dr. Wakefield:

Now that the scientific evidence over the last 8-9 years has run conclusively counter to your claim that the measles in the MMR vaccine somehow contributes to the development of autism and that Dr. Bustin at the Autism Omnibus trial showed very convincingly that your finding of measles DNA sequences in biopsy specimens from the guts of autistic children is virtually certainly a false positive due to shoddy research technique, including failure to do adequate negative controls and contamination by plasmid sequences used to do positive controls, will you finally retract your findings and say that you were mistaken? Will you finally admit how much responsibility that you bear for the recent resurgence of measles in the U.K., a resurgence which is directly attributable to the decrease in the rates of completing the full set of MMR injections fueled by fears that you yourself had a large role in stoking?

Will you finally own up to your legacy and try to make amends?

I realize these will probably never see the light of day, but, even so, I encourage my readers to go to the DAN/ARI webpage and leave comments of their own. This can be done either here or here. If no negative comments show up by Tuesday or so, we’ll know that only the glowing, sycophantic messages are being allowed through.

Indeed, because I strongly suspect that no critical messages will go through, I’m asking anyone who leaves a message for Dr. Wakefield as a result of reading this to leave a copy of their message in the comments here. I’ll publish all messages, even the ones I disagree with, as long as there’s no profanity or personal abuse.

Comments

  1. #1 Joseph
    September 9, 2007

    Here’s mine:

    Dr. Wakefield:

    What explains autism in Japan, where they don’t even use the MMR vaccine? Seriously, how do you continue to sustain such an implausible belief system? Is it solely for the money, the emotional investment, or do you truly believe in the connection?

    I don’t think ARI will post it either.

  2. #2 _Arthur
    September 9, 2007

    Speaking of Dr. Burstin, in the Cedillo case, at the Vaccines Court, the Petitioners have submitted a Motion to Strike Dr. Burstin expert report and testimony from the case record.

    The text of the motion is not available, unlike other Courts, the Autism Court does not make legal briefs available to the public.

    Kathleen Seidel reports this on Neurodiverstity http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/

  3. #3 Another Mother
    September 9, 2007

    I sent one last night, so I don’t have the exact verbage.

    I did note that so far because of Wakefield there were:

    3 dead children in Ireland
    1 dead teenager in the UK
    an outbreak of measles in Indiana
    an outbreak of mump last summer in the American Midwest (that left FOUR people deaf)

    and possibly several more disabled like these boys:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1055533.ece

    And all because Wakefield’s field paper in the Lancet that used only 12 children (provided by the lawyer paying him for the results)… and as it turns out he used very bad data.

  4. #4 MJKelleher
    September 9, 2007

    Of course you won’t see your messages posted, they’re definitely not what was asked for:

    The Autism Research Institute would like to invite concerned and grateful parents worldwide to send their wishes of encouragement and support to Dr. Wakefield and his colleagues during these unfair proceedings.

    (emphasis added by MJK) You’re not encouraging and supportive, just truthful.

  5. #5 factician
    September 9, 2007

    Dear Dr. Wakefield,

    I have chosen to believe the best about you. That you are not dishonest, nor are you malicious, but that you are merely a poorly trained scientist. Now that your hypothesis that the MMR vaccine causes autism has been thoroughly disproven, when do you plan to make an honest apology to all the people you led astray? This would demonstrate to your critics that you are not a monster, but are merely a poor scientist.

    Please, sir. Apologize.

    Sincerely,

    factician

    http://conspiracyfactory.blogspot.com

  6. #6 Adam Cuerden
    September 9, 2007

    Dear Andrew Wakefield,

    Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself. You failed to perform adequate controls (per Dr. Bustin), the lab used was contaminated, and the results did not hold up to retrying (Chadwick), and you were paid by lawyers to do the research, which you concealed (Deer. Your carelessness and dishonesty have caused an epidemic of measles, and put children’s lives at risk.

    -Adam Cuerden

  7. #7 Monimonika
    September 9, 2007

    Well, I checked out the list of the messages so far, and at the very top was the heading, “Messages of Support to Dr. Andrew Wakefield from the Autism Community”.

    I usually agree with (or at least trust) a lot of what Orac says, but isn’t it obviously stated up front that negative messages to Wakefield were never meant to go on that list at all, and thus will not be accepted?

  8. #8 Kapitano
    September 9, 2007

    My modest contribution:

    “So what if a couple of indians have measles, or a very few midwestern hicks get the mumps? You stood by your beliefs even after a thousand unbelievers proved you wrong. Sir, I salute your moral courage.”

  9. #9 former texan
    September 9, 2007

    I am certain, given that Andrew Wakefield’s highest stated concern is that of _the welfare of “the children”_ that he will retract, apologize and offer restitution post haste. Right?

  10. #10 baryogenesis
    September 9, 2007

    Off topic but not for Orac. Check out woo via a blogger on Rebecca’s via Phil Plait’s site. Contains ions; beware of cheap imitations.http://www.buykinoki.com/

  11. #11 Ms. Clark
    September 9, 2007

    I didn’t save a copy of the message I sent to Dr. Wakefield, through the ARI website, it said that I believe Dr. Bustin and Dr. Chadwick and I think I asked him to apologize for all the harm he’s done.

  12. #12 Ms. Clark
    September 9, 2007

    I didn’t save a copy of the message I sent to Dr. Wakefield, through the ARI website, it said that I believe Dr. Bustin and Dr. Chadwick and I think I asked him to apologize for all the harm he’s done.

  13. #13 Dangerous Bacon
    September 10, 2007

    Even if the “non-supportive” messages got through and were posted, it’s not like Wakefield or anyone worshipping him would be shamed into thinking about the consequences of their behavior.

    A current example of disgusting and/or criminal irresponsibility: parents who think it’s a fine idea to forge evidence that their children were vaccinated to meet school requirements:

    http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-ppnonvaccine&msg=2157.1&ctx=0

  14. #14 Prometheus
    September 12, 2007

    Orac,

    As I’m sure you know, Dr. Wakefield is absolutely convinced that he is right and will eventually be vindicated. This is why he is such a poor scientist.

    Doctors can usually get by with a firm (if unsupported by data) belief in their infallibility; their patients are often reassured by it. But a scientist who believes that they are infallible is doomed to humilation and failure.

    I hope that nobody is holding their breath waiting for an admission of error or – even less likely – an apology from Dr. Wakefield. It’s not coming.

    Prometheus

  15. #15 Dr Aust
    September 13, 2007

    Here’s mine. Feel free to cannibalize.

    Dr. Wakefield:

    Now that the scientific studies triggered by your original flawed case series have conclusively run counter to your claim that the measles in the MMR vaccine somehow contributes to the development of autism, will you finally say that you were mistaken?

    On a purely laboratory scientific level, the studies reporting measles sequences in gut biopsies have been shown quite clearly to be false positives due to inadequate controls, or to lab contamination by plasmid DNA sequences.

    Next, the clinical studies of autistic children, even those selected via referral for bowel problems, have shown only constipation, entirely explicable by the learning problems inherent in autism. No pathological finding of “autistic enterocolitis” stands up in any way.

    Finally, large-scale epidemiological studies in several different countries show no linkage of autism with MMR vaccination. None.

    Given all of this, will you finally admit that the EVIDENCE – not “the drug companies’ experts”, or “the medical hierarchy”, but the scientific and medical EVIDENCE – says that you were wrong?

    It would be comforting to think that you might finally show the insight to see that your egotistical and blinkered insistence that you were right, all evidence to the contrary, has done major damage to public health in the UK, and misled many vulnerable parents.

  16. #16 John Fryer
    September 15, 2007

    The comments on here assume that Andrew Wakefield does not support MMR vaccine.
    I am sorry to disinform you all but thats not what Andrew says.
    He says it is ESSENTIAL to get SAFE vaccines and that means measles mumps and rubella as well.
    He is paid by lawyers? The money went for PURE research and despite whether you think it was good science or the more normal junk science. By the law of averages you may be right here, but is the suspect work of an Irish Doctor to be blamed on a brilliant English Doctor who insists on safe vaccines if you please.
    If you look at the aftermath of this debate we see less deaths from vaccines in the UK and USA.
    The one glaring exception being the flu vaccine which still often has mercury in it – a known (for thousand or more years) brain destroying toxin.
    Junk science eg Dr Verstraeten’s fifth attempt shows it now after the knowledge of neandanderthal, medieval man and space age man is now “proven” by mercury supplying industry paid lackeys to be protective and every scientist from Archimedes onwards instead of crying “Eureka” should be crying science only begins in 21st century Big Pharma’s labs; all other science must be burned with all those who protest at their efforts to supply antibiotic mercury compounds and GMO food with even more antibiotics in every morsel of our food.
    Old fashioned science 1000 BC to 2000 AD used to say antibiotic = against life. Today Big Pharma tells us antibiotic = for life.
    In today’s Big Pharma world you are all right and I am wrong. I retired from chemistry in the last century, the time of Andrew Wakefield now obselete science based simply on observation and listening to those who have suffered in the hundreds and thousands and their parents.

    John Fryer M Sc B Sc Advanced Analytical Chemist

  17. #17 John Fryer
    September 15, 2007

    Francoise

    Send me three and fourpence I am going to a dance.

    You are lucky to live in France like me. The death of children to SIDS is almost unknown but there are some autism cases. But the vaccines with practically no exception never had mercury in them apart from flu. I would be pleased to know of any others that had them and when? Flu is given to adults not children.
    My granddaughter had no injections until 6 months certainly not at 1 day or even 2 months and definitely no mercury in them. She also in 2 years had half the number of vaccines in twice the time than in the UK and as for USA I have seen 7 vaccines administered at one go.
    This is the message that Andrew Wakefield is giving but it is not the message you think he is giving.
    Could it be that both camps are right but are mishearing the message?

    Send Reinforcements We are going to Advance.

    Message to HQ 1917 The Somme France

    John Fryer M Sc B Sc Advanced Analytical Chemist

  18. #18 John Fryer
    September 15, 2007

    Dr Aust

    I am a bit older possibly than you but in the aftermath of the Seveso chemical spill a lot of research was done to try to explain why this leak was so devastating to the health of the neighbours.
    One piece of work did an experiment and gave non lethal doses of a brain nerve destroying toxin and a non lethal dose of endotoxin to animals with no ill effects.
    When combined the two non lethal doses resulted in all animals dying.
    What is the potentiating effect of this? It could be a hundred times more powerful than giving the single toxin.
    In MMR we have multiple toxins and endotoxins and if the toxic mercury which by now has lodged in the brain and changed to inorganic mercury which is now cumulative and rests there almost indefinitely what have we got?
    I think we have a repeat of old science which was paid for by Big Pharma!
    An experiment repeated many times with the same results.
    1+2 is not 3 but maybe 300?

  19. #19 John Fryer
    September 15, 2007

    Kev,
    Genetic Hybridisation
    Yes, you are right this kind of experiment is not the same as dunking litmus in water and observing the colour.
    It is a multistep process where at each and every step there can be errors.
    It can be done in the best labs or the worst with success or failure.
    It all depends on who and it may occur once in 100 times or so.
    To engineer Dolly was the result of hundreds of attempts.
    To get a false positive or indeed any postive is lucky.
    The only time I ever did anything which was once it was a dismal failure and I think the success rate of the students in my group was less than 25 per cent whether a correct positive or a false positive.
    The chance of getting a negative is very high.
    Bustin is therefore saying that the people who did this are inept or incompetent.
    This work done in Dublin was the same university that Bustin learned his craft. Is he also as inept and incompetent as his mentors or what?
    The dangers of universities doing work on genetic hybridisation where contamination and escapes occur is against the code of this kind of work.
    If we applied the code to the letter I think every scientific institute and university would close down.
    We are changing the make up of DNA in uncontrolled ways.
    If a bug like AIDS whatever it is was the product what does this mean to the future of our descendants?
    Perhaps Bustin is right on this? If so it means on his advice that escapes and contamination occur we should stop this bad science before we unleash AIDS type organisms on the world.
    Perhaps it is already too late?
    But what about two different AIDS like organisms?
    What about one for each establishment that has lax controls?
    If anybody cares to look at the history we started this kind of science in 1973.
    When did AIDS begin? 1971 or 1981?
    John Fryer M Sc B Sc Advanced Analytical Chemist

  20. #20 Howell-san
    September 15, 2007

    @ Fryer
    “The one glaring exception being the flu vaccine which still often has mercury in it – a known (for thousand or more years) brain destroying toxin.”

    Since you are a chemist, you should well know that a molecule exibits different properties than the elemental forms of the atoms that comprise it. Thiomersal is hardly elemental mercury, and its metobolic product, ethylmercury, is eliminated through stool and has not been found to accumulate in the body.

    Please refrain from scare tactics, and stick to hard evidence.

  21. #21 HCN
    September 17, 2007

    Fryer said “He says it is ESSENTIAL to get SAFE vaccines and that means measles mumps and rubella as well.
    He is paid by lawyers? The money went for PURE research and despite whether you think it was good science or the more normal junk science. By the law of averages you may be right here, but is the suspect work of an Irish Doctor to be blamed on a brilliant English Doctor who insists on safe vaccines if you please.
    If you look at the aftermath of this debate we see less deaths from vaccines in the UK and USA.”

    With this kind of “logic” and “thinking” it is not a surprise you are retired. Did you retire voluntarily, or were you asked to leave?

    Anyway, Wakefield did not do good science. It is immaterial who paid him now that it has been shown that he used bad data (Bustin testimony in Autism Omnibus trial), and refused to correct an error in that data when it was pointed out to him (Chadwick testimony in Autism Omnibus trial).

    Just a couple of reminders: measles still kills. The MMR vaccine in question has NEVER contained thimerosal, so your “mercury” arguement is spurious.

    Also, measles still kills. When vaccination went down in the late 1980s over 120 people died from measles in the USA between 1989 and 1991. Now tell us EXACTLY how many Americans died from the MMR vaccine in that time frame (and remember the MMR has been used in the USA since 1971, the same vaccine that started to be used in the UK in 1988).

    Remember to give us more details on all of these vaccine “deaths”. Details that we can look up. Something that is perhaps indexed in http://www.pubmed.gov, not some story that someone you know had a kid who was vaccinated and died.

    Do NOT use the American VAERS data because that is not accurate. While it does work as a starting point for research, more often than not… it shows that there was something completely unrelated to the vaccine that would cause a death. As a case in point, read this paper:
    http://sids-network.org/experts/poa9078.pdf … Now tell us, were all of those deaths from the vaccine, or were some from previous cardiac conditions, co-sleeping or other?

    To repeat: Explain precisely what evidence you have that the MMR kills.

    Do NOT use VAERS data, and do NOT mention mercury, thimerosal or thalidomide.

    Do NOT use unverifiable anecdotes.

    Use real data that we can verify.

  22. #22 HCN
    September 20, 2007

    Mr. Fryer, since you made an appearence on LB/RB blog, could you kindly take the time to answer my question? The one that is just above.

    And do try to adhere to the guidelines: use real evidence, do not use unverifiable anecdotes, do not mention thimerosal, and do not use VAERS

    Thank you.

  23. #23 John Fryer
    October 10, 2007

    To Mr Howell
    In chemical parlance ‘mercury’ means almost anything and is used in a general sense for the element or any of its compounds organic or inorganic and even its various ionic forms.
    In fact thimerosal is an organo mercury compound diabolically engineered to have enhanced toxic effects compared to inorganic or insoluble organo forms of mercury.
    The devilish thing of this compound is that it gets transported to the brain where it yes, metabolises to inorganic ions.
    These ions stay in the brain for ever.
    Mercury ions act as a catalyst for many reactions including destruction of neurons.
    This means a small amount will take time to act and destroy the brain. Maybe months if it is in very tiny amounts.
    Evidence comes from children otherwise well who die in times from as little as 6 hours to perhaps several days after the vaccine.

  24. #24 JohnFryer
    October 10, 2007

    To HCN
    You put forward attacks on me.
    You change what I say.
    I am in favour of measles vaccines. I insisted my grand daughter had it. But not with two other viruses at the same time. In the event one of the three was deemed unnecessary at the age of 1.5. So already one of the components is not scientifically needed. Further if the vaccine takes then why bother to inject and inject and inject? Basically because it takes brains and skill to test and its much easier if riskier to over vaccinate everyone.
    Next you say a lot more died in a couple of years than died from adverse effects. I agree 100 per cent with you.
    But I do have feelings for those that suffered harm even if not dead. And the work of Andrew Wakefield specifically alerted the public to look at harm and not be fobbed off as they had been before most of the time. Look at research that uses brains and you see that the people who are dying now are not the young that got the illness and mostly recovered. Today the few who do get ill are older children often with three or four MMR jabs that didnt give the protection necessary. When you get adult measles it is dangerous and people die.
    I am unaware of US figures but in the UK the deaths were less than 10 a year before the measles vaccine was introduced. So it does look as if 40 should be the figure for USA? In which case hundreds dying today doesn’t look good whether everyone had the jab or not.
    Again vaccines are just one example of bad science at work. If you cover up harm then people will find you out.
    There has never been any evidence to show multiple vaccines are safe. The use of the most dangerous vaccine ever the old pertussis as a reason to force multiple vaccines at the same time is odious. The use of 70 years old methods of sterilisation that don’t work is criminal.

  25. #25 Bronze Dog
    October 10, 2007

    I don’t see any references there, JohnFryer. Just bald assertions, which heavily suggest that you’d rather have us just take your word for it. Who are you that we should be so blindly trusting?

    Of course, it doesn’t matter who you are: It matters what the data says. You haven’t shown any data. Whenever someone like you shows up making such bold, unsupported assertions, I always get the image in my head of some tinfoil hat screaming in a ultrasonic whine, “Trust me for no reason! Blindly worship me, heretics!” It’s a familiar pattern with woos of any stripe. They demand to be treated like unquestionable gods and usually have the audacity to project their hubris onto actual scientists doing actual science with the scientific method.

    Show us the data.

    Or are you deliberately not showing any references because you have something to hide?

  26. #26 HCN
    October 10, 2007

    John Fryer wrote “To HCN
    You put forward attacks on me.
    You change what I say.”

    Okay, I “attacked” you. But you are still retired, and have been for several years. You are also making several claims WITHOUT any real documentation. If pointing that out is an “attack”, I am guilty as charged.

    Wakefield was paid for his “research”. The MMR vaccine has been used in the USA since 1971 without the kind of damage YOU claim (and have not given any references for!).

    And you still have not answered my questions. Try again:

    Remember to give us more details on all of these vaccine “deaths”. Details that we can look up. Something that is perhaps indexed in http://www.pubmed.gov, not some story that someone you know had a kid who was vaccinated and died.

    Do NOT use the American VAERS data because that is not accurate. While it does work as a starting point for research, more often than not… it shows that there was something completely unrelated to the vaccine that would cause a death. As a case in point, read this paper:
    http://sids-network.org/experts/poa9078.pdf … Now tell us, were all of those deaths from the vaccine, or were some from previous cardiac conditions, co-sleeping or other?

    To repeat: Explain precisely what evidence you have that the MMR kills.

    Do NOT use VAERS data, and do NOT mention mercury, thimerosal or thalidomide.

    Do NOT use unverifiable anecdotes.

    Use real data that we can verify.

  27. #27 HCN
    October 11, 2007

    John Fryer, why don’t you ever post any references? Why no documents? Are we supposed to just believe you?

    If you don’t like being attacked, then do what any good scientist would do: PROVE IT!

    Make sure everything you write is properly referenced, and is able to be clearly checked by your audience. Surely you had to write a document or two when you were working as an analytical chemist. Those had to be referenced, with the reader able to go and check to make sure you were not making things up.

    The same thing happens here. We are not likely to believe you unless you have the evidence to back up your outrageous statements. Especially when there has been testimony in an American court of law that Wakefield willfully ignored information that the data he was basing his conclusions on was bad, very bad… to the point of his continued use of fraudulent!

  28. #28 HCN
    October 11, 2007

    oops, forgot the last word: data

    The sentence should finish “to the point of his continued use of fraudulent data!”

    Anyway, just check the Bustin and Chadwick testimony at:
    ftp://autism.uscfc.uscourts.gov/autism/index.html

  29. #29 john fryer
    October 11, 2007

    Hi HCN
    Your ref : Neonatal Deaths after vaccine Niu, Salive and Ellenberg 1999
    Thanks for this article – I have never seen it until a few hours ago.
    On reading I thought Oh My God.
    18 deaths claimed to the vaccine but the official reason is mostly SIDS. SIDS means we do not know why previously healthy people die. To claim it is a coincidence is not epidemiology. It is despair. It is avoidance of simple truths that out of 8 million vaccines we get x numbers of deaths and y numbers of injuries, where for healthy people it is x times the acceptable limit of deaths and y times the number of acceptable injuries. If we clearly state we will kill x people for the good of the 8 million I would accept this. But we do not state this. What we do is state the vaccine is safe, often therefore it is the parent or carer that has injured or killed the child. Hence thousands of these innocents follow their children or loved ones to Hell and back. SBS cases – more than 1 thousand a year in the USA.
    Looking at the logic. Why does the editor say in 1999 that this report should help allay the fears of the antivaccine groups etc? This is a loaded statement. First the people are not antivaccine they are antiunsafevaccines. Second what is there to indicate the report does allay fear?
    The system provides further assurance about the safety of Hep B. If you examine this; does it mean the assurance is good or bad? Second, if you look at the references it shows 2 articles that support the notion of safety and both coincidently are by the same authors. So Hep B is safe I say so and I say so and I say so.
    Going back to the source I checked out all deaths to all ages for all years and got not 18 deaths but 739 deaths. How does this compare to the learned paper on 18 deaths? So using 1 vaccine only we get it down to 232 deaths. Limit to 1991 only and we get it down to 44 deaths.
    My analysis is not perfect and is certainly very imperfect but I am not paid huge sums to check out these figures and I am not allowed to look at original data. But I can flag concern to those in power. They choose to do nothing. This system monitors the huge numbers of people suffering and dying and all anyone can do is nothing. This is possibly better than saying they are chasing money and such other hideous comments. These reports prevent me sleeping at night.
    The article indicates the proven link of vaccines to thrombocytopenia. A quick look shows 52863 and 61764 suffered this illness before they died. The cut off date is 28 days in the article. So 57448 is missed as the death took 3 months. The age of the problem was put at an older date but did the child commence the problem at age 1 day and then decline? In any event this person like many actually died of hepatitis. Died from the very illness that they give the vaccine. Very inconvenient? How about 58111 died from overwhelming and fulminant hepatitis. This is a 48 year old in good health who gets the vaccine and then after 48 years free of hepatitis dies from it?
    Going to anecdotes. Why do more than half of doctors refuse the Hep B vaccine but are willing to give it to every US child? My neice had it and 18 months later had to give up her health job through illhealth at age 28. At the moment I know one person whose son is in a coma after the Hep B vaccine at age 1 day. No one in the family ever had Hep B.
    Yes, to vaccines but no to insanity.
    Who recommened Hep B at age 1 day? Neil Halsey. They accepted. Who said mercury has no place in vaccines and Hep B should be abandoned for Age 1 day babies? Neil Halsey. They quickly shut him up.

  30. #30 HCN
    October 11, 2007

    That is not the first time I offered up that article.

    Did you read it carefully?

    Do you think from reading the table in that article it is okay for a mom to sleep on the couch with a baby?

  31. #31 john fryer
    October 12, 2007

    Hi HCN

    Your Ref Neotal Deaths after Hepatitis B Vaccine Niu et al

    This looks at 18 deaths after Hep B vaccines and compared to the total is safe. Very safe.
    The problem is that these 18 are real people or would have had real lives. Injected without their knowledge with GMO products or brain destroying products or both. Is this right for 99.99 per cent of the people who haven’t got Hep B positive parents and are never likely to catch the illness until old enough to choose the vaccine for themselves.

    12 of the cases are SIDS which means that the medical people have no idea what killed the children. So they put GMO altered viruses with brain destroying toxins and don’t know why they died?

    It isn’t as simple as it seems for my bet is that these deaths will be often to underweight, sick children and the vaccine may be maladministered eg a double dose or straight into the bloodstream, given to infants with encephalopathy or liver failure etc. And this study confirms this.

    The figures are strange for you would not expect 1771 events with 18 deaths. I have found the ratio at this age is a mere 10 so why the high number? Do the VAERS take out more than 90 per cent of the events put in? It doesn’t fit in with my observation of the VAERS and the claim it is a full record?

    The selection is careful, for death from mercury as we see from Karen Wetterhahn takes more than 28 days and if you enlarge the time interval the figures for deaths multiply considerably. Many children did not conveniently take less than 20 days to die.

    Today we see several hundred deaths from Hep B vaccine and after flu it is the biggest killer used in a single administered injection.

    The injuries are not minor but maybe coma and other permanent injuries. Peter Patriarca gave hints for the paper and I believe I am right in saying that for one vaccine he claims it is the biggest single catastrophe in medical history. He helps the authors, controls the vaccines but realises past errors have been enormous.

    People leaving these places have to hide their names and in retirement are free to say the truth. You mock me for being retired but in truth I could never be free to comment like this while in scientific employment or yes I would be asked to leave. Don Imus shows you don’t have to be a scientist to get the chop. He was very bad about the President and no problem but using words that have no meaning he was sacked and after apologising and it turns out his previous refs to the people was for example to describe them as heroes.

    Looking at the science of the observations there are clear links to both GMO harm and toxic harm.

    The paper gets full marks for the observation of showing a very safe vaccine which for many perhaps it is, but it skates round figures of greater harm and for older people we see graphic descripions of the harm including often the very illness it is given to prevent. The actual dent into Hep B in the USA is not good after 20 years and hundreds of millions of injections.

    The medical people vote as well with more than half refusing to take the jab themseves while being happy to just follow orders when killing the 18 here and many hundreds not here in this observation.

    John Fryer

  32. #32 HCN
    October 13, 2007

    Answer the question: Do you think it is okay for a baby to co-sleep with their mother on the couch?

    (one of the babies listed in the VAERS database as died due to HepB was found on floor next to the couch… the point of the whole exercise was to show that VAERS is not a reliable source of information)

    For the record I did NOT mock you for being retired. I readily admit that I am a FORMER aerospace engineer (aka rocket scientist), I am honest in telling that I had to leave the profession to take care of a medically fragile child.

    You on the other hand, keep claiming to be an analytical chemist. You neglect to explain that you have not been working in that profession for many years. It is from your lack of using proper references and mis-stating actual risks that lead us to believe that you are over inflating your credentials.

    You state outrageous “facts” like “The medical people vote as well with more than half refusing to take the jab themseves while being happy to just follow orders when killing the 18 here and many hundreds not here in this observation.” without any attribution. Where would you get that kind information?

    I am not, nor have I ever been a medical professional, but I do know how to reference and back up with real evidence claims I post.

    Why can’t you?

  33. #33 John Fryer
    October 13, 2007

    Hi HCN

    Yes, it would seem incredible if natural that a mother would want to sleep with her child. As seen here possibly unwise but was it 100 per cent to blame? Sadly it may be? This practice has gone on for centuries and is a recognised as a risk to children on the rare occasion. Do you outlaw it and make it a crime? I don’t think you can. Oddly, if a mother used this as a defence, it would I think be a cast iron alibi against charges of SBS and MSBP (Shaking Baby Syndrome and Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy now called FAA). I could use the old anecdote charge – its only one instance, but I happen to think anecdotes often in one instant indicate the harm that multi million dollar studies fail to see. We know that sleeping with your child does not account for the totality of SIDS though. We know that children do get killed by misplaced love.

    Harry Clark died from what I and possibly only I believe was the mercury in the DTP vaccine; the very vaccine Peter Patriarca said was the biggest disaster in medical history. The parents never used this for their defence and this was their dilemma. The prosecution, Meadow, Green et al were a highly polished, well emplaced prosecution machine for getting lots of parents put in prison or destroyed in private courts where we don’t know who was charged or what the result was. Secret trials. The method was cunning. Admit guilt and we will help you and your family stay together. Go against us and you will lose your children including those in the womb or those that you conceive in the future. It is a sort of Orwellian, Faustian or Witch Finding scenario. Vaccine companies believe and know their products are normally good and do this out of misplaced love also possibly.

    Those that admitted ‘crimes’ were like old fashioned witches excused but their evidence helped build up a database of evidence against those that were innocent and thought natural justice would prevail. The UK cases against SIDS victims are mostly based on Meadow and his infamous MSBP theory. In The USA the SIDS victims are charged mostly with SBS. I say this from following the cases which are public being a member of The Portia Group and Falsely Accused groups. These groups are specifically to publicise cases of Miscarriages of Justice and obtain justice immediately or in retrospect. Before this for 5 years I was in an organophosphorus working party which looked at vaccine harm as well as harm from accidental exposure to nerve toxic chemicals called OP’s.

    It is not true to say I have been out of the field of chemistry for many years. I have, (unpaid) been at the ‘coal face’ of what is wrong with modern chemistry. I communicate and correspond with many top scientists around the world. Some agree with me, some disagree but this is healthy. At times this is more than an 8 hour day for me. The inability to take onboard new ideas of chemical causes of illness is the fault of many but not all of them. When working for money you are faced with different problems and very localised ones. How do you reduce emissions from 0.0001 per cent to 0.00001 per cent etc. How do you get the best quality products to your customers. Hardly glamorous but it pays the bills. Some top scientists know that all or many mothers harm children (or at least it seems like it from their vitriolic writings). Oddly they are often millionaires.

    My work today is exciting, often you find things that you think no one else realises, but then you find many realise but like me are straws in the wind with no clout. I helped to get diazinon banned in 2000 after 40 years of safe use. Thousands of people I met were harmed by this chemical, not to mention many animals. It wasn’t difficult to realise the problem. It was a different matter to get anything done though. Hundreds agreed with me but hundreds disagreed. Today I work to get mercury out of vaccines. It is my belief that many of the SIDS would fit a theory of mercury harm. How many analyses for mercury on SIDS victims? Show me one if yo can. How many toxic autopsies on these infants? Hundreds of thousands all tested and found lacking harm from cannabis say but not one test for the most toxic non radioactive chemical present to the extent of millions of molecules in their last parting shot to prevent harm from pertussis etc. The patient is dead but does not have pertussis. Hurrah!
    The mercury in vaccines is undefensible and everyone knows this. Anyone who says different has an agenda. Many say so just to get fat cheques but know that time is running out for mercury. Those that have the power have already admitted in private that mercury should not be in vaccines. They cannot be faulted whichever way the axe falls for mercury. Its called ‘sitting on the fence’.

    Finally you say sources. I read possibly ten papers a day and look through hundreds of others. I learn but I lose sources, I put forward hypotheses from these sources. If they are wrong you enter a cul de sac almost immeddiately. For mercury you are on a wide open highway. I assume others have my background of reading. This is true for those in power as they will take you to task immediately for the smallest error, but for the most part they just stay quiet. I can walk you through some of my sources but if I do it will be like your ref it will be the tip of the iceberg. You have to keep to the topic as the problems are too big and not just mercury. But you can’t keep mercury in vaccines because one mother slept with her baby and that killed it possibly?

    For mercury are you aware of the University of Calgary video? Perhaps it would be good to discuss this for starters? To me it shows it vitro the growth of brain cells. It shows many substances that have no effect on this growth eg aluminium. It shows that mercury doesn’t stop the development but actually destroys them. It does this quickly despite the fact that the film is speeded up and gives a time lapse effect. It mentions levels of mercury which we know know are too high now. The same thing works at thousands of times less concentration but the time is longer. The ‘put down’ is its a ‘test tube’ experiment. A ‘head in the sands’ view point. Are we to open a hole in our brains and inject the most toxic non radioactive metal into them? Along with an electron microscope even? Cancer cells in vitro still exist around the world from one lady who died 50 years ago. The cells plague the biotec labs for often they are not wanted. Are these in vitro cells feeble? This video and the story of Karen Wetterhahn are two of the most powerful pieces of evidence for removing in total all mercury in vaccines for young old or destined for the third world.
    We know from old research that aluminium is found in AD cases (Alzheimer Disease). We must remember mercury is a general acting neurotoxin so won’t be alone in causing AD if my view is right but it doesn’t begin to excuse it from some blame. The form of the destroyed bri cells is too close to real neurofibullary tangles in dementia conditions for comfort. Too close by half.

    Regards John Fryer MSc BSc MBHR (Mercury is Bad for your Health Researcher)

    Ref: commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury Fritz Lorscheider

    A sign of the importance of this research is the dozens of pages of Google that refer to this single video using every languages under the sun and mercury for heaven’s sake.
    No person even the most stupid cannot be moved by this film. Only possibly those that don’t bleed and some of those might be moved also?
    Get mercury out is Rolling.

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