Orac is the nom de blog of a humble pseudonymous surgeon/scientist with an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his miscellaneous verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few will. (Continued 
Your Friday Dose of Woo has been interrupted to bring you an important rant. The previously scheduled installment will be delayed and will appear later on in the day.
This is more important.
A common characteristic of cranks and denialists, be they antivaccinationists or large corporations or whatever, is an intolerance of criticism for their views. All too frequently, this has taken the form of the abuse of the legal system in order to try to silence their opponents. The Society of Homeopaths did it to a blogger a while back. A quack by the name of Joseph Chikelue Obi did it to the same blogger earlier this year. I had written those examples off as not completely applicable to the U.S. because U.K. libel laws are so plaintiff-friendly as to make it almost impossible for anyone who isn't already wealthy to successfully defend a libel suit. However, the U.S. legal system lends itself to such abuses as well, just in different ways.
That's what we're seeing as two litigants seeking compensation for "vaccine" damage, Rev. Lisa Sykes and Seth Sykes have abused the legal system when they subpoenaed autism blogger Kathleen Seidel, a blogger who has done work every bit as detailed and well-researched as any journalist and posted it at her Neurodiversity weblog.
The subpoena itself is clearly nothing more than a fishing expedition designed to intimidate Kathleen into silence after she did a series of posts about the antivaccination views of the Sykes and their lawsuits against Bayer, a series that most recently concluded with a post called the Commerce of Causation, which listed the numerous dubious lawsuits that the Sykes' lawyer, Clifford Shoemaker, has been involved in against vaccine manufacturers (just look at all the vaccine misinformation and pseudoscience on his website!). I can't for the life of me figure out the legal justification for this subpoena. That's because there doesn't appear to be one, other than to go on a vendetta of a fishing expedition by trying to drag Kathleen as a third party witness into the Sykes' lawsuit. It doesn't matter, as Overlawyered has pointed out, that Kathleen possesses no specialized knowledge that can't be obtained any other way or that she is not a party in any way to the lawsuit, or that she has not been accused of defaming anyone. Reading the subpoena makes it mind-numbingly obvious that Shoemaker hopes to turn up evidence that Kathleen has accepted support from the federal government or vaccine manufacturers, which, I'm guessing, he hopes to use to slime her and destroy her credibility. There's nothing there, but Shoemaker thinks there is, and that's enough.
The demands of the subpoena are amazingly broad and particularly chilling. Shoemaker wants to rummage through Kathleen's financial records, correspondence, Freedom of Information requests, and much, much more. Just read the text of the subpoena. Most chilling of all, from the point of view of a blogger, is that the subpoena demands all correspondence with fellow bloggers (see #5 in the subpoena; it's a scanned document, and I couldn't just cut and paste the text).
Kathleen has drafted a motion to quash this frivolous and vindictive subpoena. Her text points out just how much of a blatantly obvious fishing expedition the subpoena is:
9. The subpoena commands production of "all documents pertaining to the setup, financing, running, research, maintaining the website http://www.neurodiversity.com" - including but not limited to material mentioning the plaintiffs - and the names of all persons "helping, paying or facilitating in any fashion" my endeavors. The subpoena demands bank statements, cancelled checks, donation records, tax returns, Freedom of Information Act requests, LexisNexis® and PACER usage records. The subpoena demands copies of all of my communications concerning any issue which is included on my website, including communications with representatives of the federal government, the pharmaceutical industry, advocacy groups, non-governmental organizations, political action groups, profit or non-profit entities, journals, editorial boards, scientific boards, academic boards, medical licensing boards, any "religious groups (Muslim or otherwise), or individuals with religious affiliations," and any other "concerned individuals."10. The subpoena violates my First Amendment right to freedom of religion by demanding information about my religious beliefs.
11. The subpoena violates my Fourth Amendment right to freedom from unreasonable search and seizure because it is overbroad and general in character.
12. The subpoena is impermissible under Rule 26(b)(1) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which allows discovery of only those matters that are relevant to the subject of the action. None of the information requested in the subpoena can reasonably be anticipated to assist the court in determining the cause of Wesley Sykes' neurodevelopmental disorders, the truth of the plaintiffs' factual allegations, or the liability of Bayer Corporation for negligence, design defect, or breach of warranties. The subpoena therefore serves no legitimate evidentiary or investigatory function.
[...]
15. Even if the subpoena were not unconstitutional, illegal and barred by the journalist's privilege, it is excessively intrusive in its terms. Plaintiffs and their counsel seek not only to rummage through records that they suspect pertain to themselves, but also through my family's bank records, tax returns, autism-related medical and educational records, and every communication concerning all of the issues to which I have devoted my attention and energy in recent years. I have a reasonable expectation of privacy with respect to this material. It would be wholly inappropriate for the court to compel me, a nonparty to this civil action, to subject myself, my family, friends and acquaintances to the hostile scrutiny of plaintiffs in order to enable them to argue some point that would not even help to prove their case.
[...]
17. The subpoena was not issued in good faith because its manifest purpose is not to elicit information relevant to determining Bayer's liability for Wesley Sykes' medical and developmental problems, but to indulge his parents' and their attorney's curiosity about my motivations and associations; to aggressively communicate their suspicion that I am not merely a fellow citizen who openly, intelligently and conscientiously disagrees with their public statements and actions, but a covert agent of the government, the pharmaceutical industry, or some other hidden force; to disrupt my relationships with my associates and news sources; and to intimidate, harass and retaliate against me for exercising my constitutional right to report and express opinions about matters of widespread public interest in which plaintiffs and plaintiffs' counsel are involved. These are not legitimate reasons to invoke the judicial subpoena power. Indeed, in so doing, Mr. Shoemaker has engaged in a sanctionable abuse of his authority as an officer of the court.
I agree with Jake and PalMD. Mr. Shoemaker is a despicable scum-sucking piece of excrement. Not only is there no scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism, making Shoemaker's raison d'être (suing vaccine manufacturers for fantastical "vaccine injury") of no value to society, but he can't take the heat when a blogger takes a look at his profiting on scientifically a discredited hypothesis. True, if the Sykes believe that vaccines somehow injured their child, they have the right to sue, but if Kathleen Seidel (or anyone else for that matter) believes that they are engaging in a frivolous lawsuit based on a claim that has no basis in science (as Kathleen and I both do), they have the right to say that, particularly when backed up with evidence and strong arguments. What Shoemaker is doing is nothing short of using legal thuggery to indulge his paranoid beliefs that Kathleen is somehow a "pharma shill" and to intimidate other bloggers who may have communicated with her or helped her. As Walter Olson of Overlawyered put it:
Should the subpoena somehow be upheld and its onerous demands enforced, it could signal chilly legal times ahead for bloggers who expose lawyers and their litigation to critical scrutiny.
That's clearly what Shoemaker, the Sykes, and the mercury militia want, and that's almost certainly why Shoemaker issued this subpoena. The antivaccination movement thrives on intimidation. It can't handle reasoned and science-based criticism because it can't answer it, having no science to support their increasingly tortured claims of vaccines causing autism. As much as they would normally deserve my sympathy for the difficult task they have raising an autistic child, the Sykes lost most of it through their lawsuits based on vaccine pseudoscience and lost the last of it when they let their shark try to drag Kathleen Seidel into this through the issuance of this subpoena, whose issuance is a lot like a SLAPP-style action. Now they have only my contempt for allowing this legal thuggery to occur in their name, and my contempt goes double for their lawyer, Clifford Shoemaker, who clearly is willing to abuse the subpoena process to try to punish a gadfly who has annoyed him with her commentary. We can only hope that the judge sees through this blatantly obvious legal fishing expedition and its naked intent to intimidate a blogger whose only involvement with the case is to comment on it from the sidelines and to publicize justified criticisms of Shoemaker's and the Sykes' handling of the case. We can only hope that the judge agrees with Kathleen Seidel and not only quashes this subpoena but quashes Shoemaker and his abusive tactics--preferably with serious sanctions. We can also hope that the state bar where Shoemaker practices is made aware of his abusive tactics. We can also hope that Shoemaker and the Sykes, like "Dr. Obi" and the Society of Homeopaths before them, discover the Streisand effect.
Comments
Thank you so much for sharing my outrage about this.
Posted by: Kathleen Seidel | April 4, 2008 8:52 AM
Kathleen has always been respectfully polite in her blog, while beating the Hg crew with the facts. When you turn over rocks, people like Shoemaker will slither out. Does NH have any resources for legal aid for such a case?
Posted by: Ruth | April 4, 2008 9:02 AM
I never said that---I wish I had.
Damn you for beating me to it.
Just for the record, I also think that Mr. S. is a despicable scum-sucking peice of shit.
Posted by: PalMD | April 4, 2008 9:36 AM
How much would Shoemaker have made if he was getting the usual 33% that lawyers charge for winning lawsuits? This vaccine court small change is a pittance compared to what he should earn on the open market after he wins this omnibus case. It's like being paid for on the job training. I hope I can hire him. The experience he's gaining here will make him a valuable asset to all of us who had children poisoned by the medical industry. He should thank Kathleen for giving him some publicity.
Posted by: John Best | April 4, 2008 9:55 AM
ooh, I think this will stand up for all of 3 minutes..
nice to see her not being intimidated though, now lets see her win :twisted:
Posted by: pikajedi3 | April 4, 2008 10:29 AM
OK, I paraphrased.;-)
Good to see that you agree with my paraphrasing.
Posted by: Orac | April 4, 2008 10:51 AM
If you actually read the subpoena, it's a piece of garbage. I've seen huff-and-puff letters set up with more care. Kathleen will not only get this thing quashed, but the judge will very likely agree with a request to sanction Shoemaker -- which means Shoemaker could be facing a stiff fine and even the possible loss of his license.
Posted by: Phoenix Woman | April 4, 2008 10:59 AM
What a bunch of blustering shitbag slimeballs.
I seem to remember that when PZ Myers was threatened with an equally fatuous lawsuit threat, a Professor of Law or two with some concept of free speech offered PZ free legal advice, argument drafting, counter threat with bigger legal gun stuff etc etc. Would hope someone will do the same for Kathleen.
BTW, reading about Mr Shoemaker I was oddly reminded of that joke about "98% of the lawyers giving the rest a bad name"
Posted by: Dr Aust | April 4, 2008 11:07 AM
I think a judge would call in the State AG and suggest Kathleen serve some time in the stocks on the Concord Common.
Posted by: John Best | April 4, 2008 11:09 AM
I can't say I'm surprised to see your support for Kathleen.
I have made a list of the blogs discussing this.
Posted by: sharon | April 4, 2008 11:14 AM
This is purely disgusting. But what do you expect from people who don't believe in proper protection of research subjects and would subject their child to unethical and potentially illegal "research." I don't see how this has any chance in moving forward. If it was upheld, I think Grier and his ilk might need to change their underwear when they realize what liabilities they are exposing themselves to.
I am Kathleen!
Posted by: ozzy | April 4, 2008 11:41 AM
As I recall, Shoemaker's interest in vaccine injury is somehow connected to his sister who was partially paralyzed by Polio, the wild virus, not the live virus vaccine.
If anyone should be supportive of the vaccine program I would think it would be him. Maybe he's lashing out at vaccines in general for not being available soon enough to help his sister? It makes no sense.
Posted by: clone3g | April 4, 2008 12:41 PM
John, you're a real class act among fucking assholes, you know that?
Sharon, add me to the list when you get a chance.
Posted by: IAMB | April 4, 2008 1:03 PM
Best...you're such a simp. You know you've hit the depths of loserville when, even as a fellow anti-vaxer, EoH doesn't want you around anymore.
Whats the matter...tired of talking to yourself over at that rag you call a blog?
Posted by: bones | April 4, 2008 1:08 PM
Listen, Shoemaker is in Vaccine Court because he couldn't win in regular civil court. Best said it himself....think of allll the money he could win in civil court.
Begs the question, why isn't he???
Posted by: bones | April 4, 2008 1:18 PM
Had your slimy reputation not preceded you John Best, I would have assumed that was a joke. Unfortunately knowing what you are I know that it's really your pig ignorant and nasty personality vomiting on the Internet going public, again.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 4, 2008 1:38 PM
Bones,
I can see from my statcounter that a lot more people have learned the truth about Kathleen's friend, Amanda Baggs. Perhaps if Baggs faces criminal charges of fraud, Kathleen can be held as an accomplice. Maybe the two of them could spend some time in the stocks.
Shoemaker can set a precedent in vaccine court and those of us excluded by the statute of limitations can then file in state courts, break Pharma and afford the treatments we need for our poisoned kids.
Then Mark Geier and Andy Cutler can cure them all. And, Kathleen's mission of preaching insanity will have been defeated.
Posted by: John Best | April 4, 2008 1:58 PM
What is most interesting, from a legal standpoint, is that Sykes v. Glaxco/Bayer is a TORT case, sounding in products liability, meaning that the Sykes' are alleging that Glaxco/Bayer put an unsafe/dangerous product into the stream of commerce (I am condensing this quite a bit); given that both named defendants are manufacturers, plaintiff needs to prove,a t trial, by a 51% standard, that somehow the "design" of their vaccines was flawed (i.e., I don't believe they are alleging that one particular batch of vaccine was flawed but rather, every batch had what is termed a "design defect").
How any blogger's opinions--pro or con--could be at all relevant to that issue is beyond me.
The motion to quash covers all bases: overbreadth, seeking consitutionally-protected material, etc., but the one I would put money on would be that there is no reasonable expectation by the plaintiffs that "relevant" material would be produced therewith.
Here's hoping the judge rules correctly and quashes the subpoena.......
Posted by: barbie123 | April 4, 2008 2:23 PM
Thanks for the great rant, Orac.
I'm one of the 100+ bloggers named in item 5 of the subpoena.
I'm keeping a running list of reactions to the Seidel subpoena at I Speak of Dreams. I hope the story is picked up by MSM.
And John Best? My opinion of you has not changed-- you are still a despicable cyber thug.
Posted by: Liz Ditz | April 4, 2008 2:40 PM
I am Kathleen too! (Spartacus, anyone?)
Go get 'em Kathleen! You have the emotional support of many more than you realize.
Stupid is as stupid does. It does burn, Orac. Oh, how it burns.
Posted by: mekei | April 4, 2008 2:46 PM
I am Kathleen too! (Spartacus, anyone?)
Go get 'em Kathleen! You have the emotional support of many more than you realize.
Stupid is as stupid does. It does burn, Orac. Oh, how it burns.
Posted by: mekei | April 4, 2008 2:47 PM
I am Kathleen too! (Spartacus, anyone?)
Go get 'em Kathleen! You have the emotional support of many more than you realize.
Stupid is as stupid does. It does burn, Orac. Oh, how it burns.
Posted by: mekei | April 4, 2008 2:49 PM
I think I preferred Cliff Shoemaker when he was played by Vincent Price. Ms Seidel is lucky she wasn't subpoenaed for devils' marks.
Posted by: has | April 4, 2008 3:09 PM
mekei au trois,
I AM KATHLEEN TOO!
Clifford Suemaker and Rev. Psycho can bite me.
Posted by: notmercury | April 4, 2008 4:43 PM
What a disgusting, aggressive, and yet insightful move by the mercury militia. They have no evidence, just rumors, innuendo, exaggerated anecdotes on Yahoo boards and email lists, a silicon-injected celebrity or two and a bunch of money funneled through antivaccination and antigovernment extremists. These filthy people and their lemmings are truly amazing in their rabid efforts to suppress science and the freedom of speech for those who actually support scientific progress.
Posted by: Hey Zeus is my Homeboy | April 4, 2008 5:30 PM
If ever there was a hunk o' hunk o' burnin' stupid, your comment above is it. Your vile, despicable commentary is not welcome here. You can continue to post (I don't censor--at least not yet), but I heartily encourage every commenter here to do to you what you deserve: Mock you for your malignant idiocy.
Posted by: Orac | April 4, 2008 5:34 PM
So, it's more or less the Sykes' and their attorney trying to shut Kathleen up. I read the subpoena and the response.
I'm no federal judge, but from what I know of the law, this subpoena should be quashed forthwith. As for judicial sanction, I wouldn't hold my breath. However, I would certainly contact the serving attorney's home state bar association and file a complaint with their ethics board.
If I weren't living a bleak hand-to-mouth existence I would cheerfully donate to Ms. Seidel's defense.
Posted by: DLC | April 4, 2008 5:40 PM
Orac,
So you think prison is more appropriate than the stocks? I don't mind seeing her get what she deserves over quickly. Some public humiliation would be justified after the way she has mocked people who help autistic children.
Judging by some other comments here, I guess mocking me is about the best defense you pseudointellectuals can muster.
Posted by: John Best | April 4, 2008 6:24 PM
I am not familiar with the judiciary in New Hampshire, but I am encouraged by what I have been able to learn about Hon. James Muirland, who has been assigned the matter of Ms. Seidel's subpoena. His reported rulings on substantive legal issues seem sensible and well-reasoned, at least the ones I have located. Even better, he can recognize absurdity when presented with it. A prisoner in his court sued the corrections system for millions, in part because they persisted in serving him hard-boiled eggs, which he loathed. The prisoner accompanied his pleadings to the judge with a actual hard-boiled egg, to somehow prove the validity of his claims. Judge Muirland's response began:
"I do not like eggs in the file.
I do not like them any style.
I will not take them fried or boiled.
I will not take them poached or broiled...."
The Seidel subpoena, though couched in recognized legal boilerplate, is equally absurd, and I hope it too will receive the response it deserves.
Posted by: DT35 | April 4, 2008 6:25 PM
Well, I don't have time for the prolonged mockery you so richly deserve, John Best, but
I'm afraid this black hole of a projectionist fearmonger's delusion may have just ruptured the space-time continuum...so maybe I have more time than I realize.
It must really, truly, suck to be you. Get some help.
Posted by: DanioPhD | April 4, 2008 7:03 PM
Actually, mockery is the only appropriate response of moral and intelligent people to your vile stupidity. Your "arguments" (such as they are) are too idiotic to be worth a serious response.
Posted by: Orac | April 4, 2008 7:25 PM
What's with John's obsession with conspiracy, sodomy and child molestation? Maybe he needs to have his own dirty laundry aired? Maybe his kids need to have a good medical checkup by a qualified physician? He has a dishonorable discharge from the army doesn't he? John, I'm do for my vaccination at the vet and you are due for your rabies shot.
Posted by: John best's cat | April 4, 2008 7:48 PM
Your "arguments" (such as they are) are too idiotic to be worth a serious response.
Posted by: Orac | April 4, 2008 7:25 PM
The only argument I have, without becoming bogged down in minutiae, is that autism can and should be cured. Anyone opposed to that is either disingenuous or a simpleton.
Would you like to become autistic?
Catman,
Thanks for the slander, it shows your IQ.
Posted by: John Best | April 4, 2008 7:55 PM
"Judging by some other comments here, I guess mocking me is about the best defense you pseudointellectuals can muster."
As I speak to an infant as an infant, and to a dog as a dog, so to am I speaking to you in the only language you understand - fyi...that would be jackass. You're a lonely, lonely child, but I tell ya what. If you're able to pick your knuckles up off the ground long enough to type me an example of Kathleen lying or misstating a fact, well, I'll stop mocking you. Until then, you wear a crown of shit as far as I'm concerned.
Hey Zeus is my Homeboy! Nothing, really...just wanted to say that's a kick ass name.
Posted by: bones | April 4, 2008 7:57 PM
"The only argument I have, without becoming bogged down in minutiae, is that autism can and should be cured."
I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say that IF POSSIBLE autism should be cured. Unfortunately, that is not possible right now. It is comforting to most autistic parents to come to grips with their child's condition, accept and love them for who they are and focus their energy on proven therapies (cognitive, behavioral therapy) that can have beneficial impact on their autistic child's life instead of chasing ghosts. The only difference between us and your ilk is that we don't agree with the shady, unethical and dangerous therapies (chemical castration, chelation, etc) that are being used on young children by a bunch of greedy quacks.
Posted by: ozzy | April 4, 2008 8:29 PM
The world renowned Dr Mark Geier is curing autism using Lupron and chelation. It is not possible to chemically castrate anyone who has not reached puberty.
I don't think Bones is smart enough to see both of the lies that I just exposed here. Maybe one of you can explain it for him, her or it.
Posted by: John Best | April 4, 2008 8:42 PM
Hey, John! Back up what you say & then we might respect you!
Posted by: Skwee | April 4, 2008 9:37 PM
Help me get out of my moronic body....save me please...
Posted by: John Best's Brain | April 4, 2008 10:26 PM
Rant mode:
Autism should be treated. Cured? Maybe. But to so would inescapably alter another person's personality, and that should not be undertaken lightly. Contrary to the hateful fearmongering of some, autistics are not hopeless creatures that no parent could possibly want. They are PEOPLE.
And as people, it is inhumane to subject them to medical interventions that have no evidence to back them, and to deny them medical interventions that do. Only a fool, a monster, or a deeply deceived person, would do the sorts of things to these people that are promoted by DAN! and other agencies. Deliberately subjecting them to infectious disease as an alternative to vaccination. Chelating them, sometimes with actual chelators, sometimes with fakery. Injecting painful "natural" chelators. Chemical castration, a truly despicable "cure" straight out of the eugenics movement of the 1930s. Drastic dietary modifications sure to leave the child feeling left out of class events and vulnerable to mockery and cruel practical jokes by classmates. Colonoscopies -- risky, uncomfortable, humiliating procedures. "Natural" remedies from other countries which, ironically, contain actual dangerous amounts of mercury and/or lead. Acupuncture, which involves sticking LOTS of needles into a patient. (Remember, autistics tend to be far more sensitive.) "Rebirthing" therapy. Drilling out mercury-amalgam fillings to replace them with ceramics (a painful procedure which costs precious and irreplaceable tooth enamel).
And the biggest tragedy of all is that these procedures do nothing. The parents will glowingly talk about how much good it has done their child, even if the improvement is minimal and consistent with normal development for an autistic child. Anyone who points that out will be lambasted for being too negative, for wanting their child to fail, or for not really understanding. But like veterinary homeopathy, the treatments are nothing more than an elaborate ritual to reassure the parents. They do nothing for the patient. I find myself deeply suspicious that we hear many positive testimonials from parents, but none from grown autistics. Indeed, of the few testimonials I've heard from grown autistics, every one has been negative. It does make one wonder.
Posted by: Calli Arcale | April 4, 2008 11:10 PM
John Best,
Have you a cure for autism? Do you know where a cure for autism can be found? Has the cure been tested and found effective?
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | April 4, 2008 11:15 PM
Arcale,
Do you really think any parent wants their kid to grow up to be another Amanda Baggs, weighing 300 pounds and having a 500 pound woman for a lover? How would I ever live that down at the 19th hole after a good round of golf? Come on, that's no way to go through life. We want a better life than that for our kids.
If we let our kids turn out like that, it means we screwed up as parents.
Posted by: John Best | April 4, 2008 11:24 PM
Folks, do not expect real answers from either John Best or AnonySue/CommonSue. They do not believe in presenting actual evidence. Their only defense are moronic insults, thinking somehow that they are suitable substitutes for evidence.
If either of them came back with a link to real verifiable evidence to support their claims, the Internet would crash and never come back again!
Posted by: HCN | April 5, 2008 3:26 AM
HCN,
Even worse, PZed would become a fundamentalist pre-Mosaic Jew and start producing pepperoni pizzas for the gay community.
Posted by: Alan Kellogg | April 5, 2008 4:40 AM
Reading John Best's ludicrous posts and the responses brings to mind this remark of British biophysicist and Nobel Prizewinner A.V. Hill:
"Laughter is the best detergent of nonsense"
The context of this, remark, made in the 1930s, is interesting. Anyone interested can find the story in various places, including in the excellent obituary of Hill's protege (and 1970 Nobel Prizewinner) Sir Bernard Katz here.
Posted by: Dr Aust | April 5, 2008 6:12 AM
When you turn over rocks, people like Shoemaker will slither out.
This sounds suspiciously like a slur against snakes.
Posted by: Graculus | April 5, 2008 8:43 AM
And yet, as months started turning to years, JB continued running and screaming away from all our requests for that "minutiae" and told us to just blindly trust him.
That's one reason I'm all in favor of mocking. I certainly gave you far more of a chance than you deserved, and you blew it a long, long time ago.
Posted by: Bronze Dog | April 5, 2008 9:15 AM
Exactly. I tried for a long time to be patient with the Best-bot. He's like the Terminator of Stupid, though. He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse for the vile things he says. He absolutely will not stop, ever, until your brain is dead.
All that leaves is mockery. Or, as Thomas Jefferson is quotes as having said, ""Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them."
Posted by: Orac | April 5, 2008 9:32 AM
Dear John,
Sorry you haven't seen much of me lately but I've decided that even I can't hang around a prick like you any longer.
P.S. Say goodbye to the fist for me.
Posted by: John Best's Erection | April 5, 2008 9:37 AM
HCN,
Here's your link on how to cure autism.
http://tinyurl.com/67zgtk
Posted by: John Best | April 5, 2008 9:43 AM
Why's most of it in Chinese?
Posted by: Lucas McCarty | April 5, 2008 10:37 AM
Give up the evidence John Beast. Lay it out. Go ahead. All you have so far are anecdotes and buckets of dumb.
If anyone is interested in a long list of quotes from Mr. Reality Challenged and want to really see what he's all about
go here
Posted by: Rev. bigDumbChimp | April 5, 2008 10:41 AM
Lucas,
I have not seen any neuroinsane blogs in Chinese so I thought I'd relay the truth to them before you nitwits translated your propaganda to abuse their children.
Posted by: John Best | April 5, 2008 10:46 AM
"Why's most of it in Chinese?"
It seems to be a line-by-line translation of his rant into Chinese. Maybe he's hoping for hits from China?
Posted by: Shiritai | April 5, 2008 11:15 AM
I would never click on a tinyurl from JB. Thanks to those who did.
JB-bot, try something that is real and verifiable. Perhaps from a journal indexed at PubMed.
Posted by: HCN | April 5, 2008 12:13 PM
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... LUPRON??? I am almost speechless. Do these people understand what... you know what? I was going to go on a big rant about Lupron and its intended uses (as someone who was on it for experimental purposes years ago), but really? There is no point. I am just stunned. STUNNED.
Y'all must be tired of my neophyte comments on all of this woo since y'all are old hat. I find myself unable to keep from commenting because it is so outrageous! Screw it, I'm going to get waffles.
Posted by: Liesl | April 5, 2008 1:00 PM
Liesl, you might be interested in this after you have finished your waffles:
http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/109/lupron-geier-index
I see the internet has not crashed, JB is still trying to prove stuff by just saying it is so, without any real evidence.
Posted by: HCN | April 5, 2008 1:11 PM
Wow. There are so many things wrong with the assumptions and mindset behind this comment that I don't know where to start.
I'm sorry that's the attitude you have towards autism and people with autism. I genuinely love and value my daughter and want what's best for her, rather than putting my ego ahead of her needs, and I am confident and hopeful that with she will continue to improve with the treatment - behavioral therapy that teaches her how to deal with the world in a way that her differently-wired brain can understand absorb - that she is presently receiving and has a perhaps challenging, but healthy, fulfilling, and productive, life ahead of her. I'm sorry that you wouldn't feel the same way.
I pity any children you might have, and look at in the way your comment describes, roughly as much as I pity John Norman's daughter. And I pity you, for the sort of person you seem to be. No one deserves to have to live with that.
Posted by: Azkyroth | April 5, 2008 1:43 PM
"The world renowned Dr Mark Geier..."
-Yes, he's a legend in his own mind. I wonder what he and Boy Wonder (Davey) do in their basement lab all night long?
"...is curing autism using Lupron and chelation."
-Lupron?!? Really, that's like soooo 2007. C'mon John catch up with the rest of the anti-vax yahoo's. Mito PPD!! It's the new craze for the crazies.
"It is not possible to chemically castrate anyone who has not reached puberty."
-Sooooo, they do or they don't have precocious puberty?!? Which is it? Make up my mind.
"I don't think Bones is smart enough to see both of the lies that I just exposed here."
-John, everything the spews forth from that cake-hole you call a mouth is a lie.
Posted by: bones | April 5, 2008 1:49 PM
Liesl, Was Lupron part of the procedure for your sex change?
Askyroth,
So, you want your daughter to marry a 500 pound woman?
999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 parents would disagree with you.
I can imagine you'd be proud to say " I do" when a minister asks "Who gives this woman to this sweathog?"
Posted by: John Best | April 5, 2008 2:33 PM
(By the way, Orac, I think that incredibly callous, hateful, and dismissive comment from John Best earlier is worth hanging on to).
Posted by: Azkyroth | April 5, 2008 2:39 PM
Thanks for that, HCN. I am still almost speechless about the Lupron thing. I took it for two years nonstop as an experimental treatment, and though I recognize that my experience is utterly anecdotal, I am sickened by the possibility of children going through the hell it caused in me. What's next? Warfarin for autism? Ya know, their blood must somehow carry seronegative antibodies that cause autism so if you can thin it enough it will cause the antibodies to pass through the body into the urine.
I joke, but it isn't really funny since anything is possible with these people.
Posted by: Liesl | April 5, 2008 3:38 PM
Tech-related media are beginning to report on the Seidel story.
Posted by: mrT | April 5, 2008 3:38 PM
John Best highlights an interesting usage of "world renowned", as in: "The world renowned Dr Mark Geier..."
Being a simple soul, I used to think "world renowned" meant "recognised world-wide for being good at, or eminent in, something".
It is now clear that in the Alt-(med)-iverse it means "globally infamous".
As in: "Jeffrey Dahmer was a world renowned psychopathic serial murderer and cannibal"
How gratifying that we can now describe any leading charlatan, liar or con-artist as "world renowned" without having that awkward feeling that that wasn't quite the right choice of words.
Posted by: Dr Aust | April 5, 2008 4:15 PM
Dr. Aust, yeah, you're right. I never thought of it that way.
I guess Geier IS "world renowned", in his own infamously, incompitent way.
Posted by: bones | April 5, 2008 4:34 PM
Can I join in?
Mr Best, saying that Autism is curable and should be cured is not an argument, it is a position statement.
The argument comes when you try and prove that autism can be cured using the Geiers etc methods. Oddly enough you cannot so demonstrate this.
Posted by: guthrie | April 5, 2008 5:34 PM
John Best:
What an oxymoronic last name! Anyway... I almost missed your sex change comment to me and that would have been sad as it has afforded small amusement in an otherwise lazy day. Thanks for that!
Posted by: Liesl | April 5, 2008 5:39 PM
"I can imagine you'd be proud to say " I do" when a minister asks "Who gives this woman to this sweathog?"
-that should be an easy answer. what did your in-laws say?
Posted by: bones | April 5, 2008 5:47 PM
If Kathleen would put a Paypal link on her site, I for one would gladly kick in the price of a couple of coffees to help pay her legal fees.
How stupid it is that she should have to pay out of pocket for reporting the truth.
(the news about the judge is encouraging.)
Posted by: Shay | April 5, 2008 6:31 PM
I'll be darned; there is one. Been there, gave that.
Posted by: Shay | April 5, 2008 8:31 PM
First, I don't share your infantile prejudice against overweight people, though there are obvious health concerns. I wouldn't want my daughter to become unhealthily obese, and would be concerned about the health problems her partner might experience in such an event and their effects on her and the relationship, but - apparently unlike you - I not only wouldn't stop seeing my daughter as a person if she were overweight, but have not already ceased to see her as a person on account of her autism. On the other hand, if she were to grow up to become a small-minded, callous, vindictive, hateful, bigoted, misanthropic fanatic, I would hang my head in shame.
Second, I think 999,999 out of 1,000,000 parents with autistic children (I don't think there are actually a billion of them) would disagree with your appallingly bigoted, callous, and condescending stereotype of what "autism" means for a person's life (yes, ASD patients and children are "people"; you seem to be a bit confused on this point). I certainly would; I have confidence - reasonable confidence based on the pattern of improvement and growth I've observed - that my daughter will continue to improve as she has with ABA therapy, a scientifically supported approach that is both grounded in coherent theory and has produced repeatable, empirically demonstrated results, and by all indications she will probably be able to live as normal a life as I've had. And speaking as a person who's struggled with an ASD myself and not had either the outcome which a shallow, bigoted misanthrope like yourself apparently considers the nadir of "loser" nor the sort of outcome *I* would consider "becoming a loser" (ask the mirror for details), I find your characterization offensive personally as well as on principle - so "fuck you" right back. You've really shown your true colors here, Mr. Worst.
Incidentally, assuming for the sake of argument that your ideas about what autism means are accurate, you might ask those 999,999,999 parents whether they'd prefer their child grow up to weigh 300 pounds and marry a 500 pound woman with or without them having spent hundreds to thousands on quack treatments that in the best of cases produce improvement no more significant than the normal progression for autistic children, the confirmation bias and straw-clutching of their devotees notwithstanding. Considering that children have been killed by these quack therapies and by vaccine-preventable illnesses, you might also ask them whether they'd rather their child grow up to weigh 300 pounds and marry a 500 pound woman than not grow up at all. And if you had a single sliver of actual compassion or empathy anywhere in your body, you might also think to ask how many of them think children will have *better* outcomes if they're taught that they're "broken, need fixing, and an embarassment to their parents in front of their golf buddies" than if they're taught that they are "different and challenging but loved and worthwhile." I don't think you'll find a lot of support for your position on those questions.
I seem to remember hearing that you have at least one child with an ASD. If that's correct, then I openly challenge whether you have the guts to look him/her/them in the eye and tell them what you think of them, based on your comments about autistic children and their future prospects here. Learning they have a monster for a father will be painful, but it's better that they know for certain rather than hoping for some manifestation of love, acceptance, or respect from you.
Posted by: Azkyroth | April 5, 2008 9:17 PM
Guthrie, I've already demonstrated that chelation cures autism. To see it for yourself, you'll have to find an autistic kid and cure him yourself. You have all sorts of Aspies to choose from around here. Maybe you could cure Lucas McCarthy and he'd be able to find a job.
Posted by: John Best | April 5, 2008 10:43 PM
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... LUPRON??? I am almost speechless. Do these people understand what... you know what? I was going to go on a big rant about Lupron and its intended uses (as someone who was on it for experimental purposes years ago), but really? There is no point. I am just stunned. STUNNED.
Yep. Some of the quacks actually push Lupron on autistic children. I wonder how many of the parents realize just what they are risking. Does Mark Geier at all actually tell them what Lupron is? Or does he just tell them that he thinks it affects blood mercury levels because he thinks testosterone binds the mercury? It's a very tenuous chain of unsupported assumptions heaped upon unsupported assumptions, with the end result being that for no good reason at all, a bunch of children grow up impotent and infertile.
John Best is good at thinking like a parent of an autistic child. He's got this dreadful monster to deal with, and he'd rather have a perfect angel. What parent wouldn't? But I wonder how often he tries to think like an autistic child. Imagine you are autistic. For years, you endure painful therapies. Injections. Bizarre dietary restrictions that give your schooltime tormentors one more tool for humiliating you. Mounds of "natural" pills. Perhaps a bout of whooping cough. And then the final insult: Lupron. You don't quite understand it at the time, but because your parents tell you you have to get it, you do. Then in high school, your tormentors have a new weapons against you -- your high voice, your underdeveloped genitals. And perhaps ten years after that, when your friends are sending invitations to their weddings, you're thinking about how horrible it is that you don't dare date anyone, because you dread a woman seeing you naked and laughing. And dread even more the knowledge that you will not be able to perform. If you are lucky, you will one day find an understanding woman. But you will not have children. Your parents, fooled by the profit-mongers, will have robbed you of that. Robbed you first o