I don't much like The Huffington Post.
My dislike for The Huffington Post goes way, way back--all the way back to its very beginnings. Indeed, a mere three weeks after Arianna Huffington's little vanity project hit the blogosphere, I noted a very disturbing trend in its content. That trend was a strong undercurrent of antivaccination blogging, something I wrote about nearly three years ago. At the time, I pointed out how Santa Monica pediatrician to the stars and "vaccine skeptic" Dr. Jay Gordon had found a home there, long with David Kirby, author of the mercury militia Bible Evidence of Harm, and Janet Grilo.
This was right from the beginning.
These antivaccination luminaries were soon joined by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr and more recently by Deirdre Imus, the driving force ramping up the antivaccinationist mercury militia proclivities of aging shock jock Don Imus and whose ignorance and stupidity when it comes to vaccines threaten to rend the fabric of the space-time continuum. (Indeed, if Jenny McCarthy didn't exist, Deirdre Imus would get my vote for the antivaccinationist who routinely says the most astoundingly ignorant things about science.) Although we don't hear much from Grilo or Gordon anymore, unfortunately we do hear from Kirby, Imus, and Kennedy on a fairly regular basis, all on The Huffington Post, with the only voice of reason when it comes to vaccines being Arthur Allen, author of Vaccine: The Controversial Story of Medicine's Greatest Lifesaver, who, unfortunately, has not posted to HuffPo in a long time. It's not for naught that I've dubbed the Huffington Post "Arianna's Home for Happy Antivaccinationists" and seriously questioned whether it could do a science section.
I'm revisiting this topic because I think I'm starting to understand a bit why this may be the case. Oddly enough, the impetus was Jenny McCarthy's appearance on Larry King Live last week for Autism Awareness Day, following her breathtakingly self-absorbed and inane article published on CNN.com. Several readers sent me both her article and later the transcript of her appearance on Larry King's love-fest. Perhaps some of my readers were wondering why I didn't blog about it, and, before I get to the antivaccinationist blather at HuffPo, you deserve an explanation why. It's simple.
Jenny McCarthy bores me now.
The reason McCarthy bores me is, quite frankly, because she is so unbearably, unbelievably, and willfully stupid, full of the arrogance of ignorance. Rebutting her brain-dead pronouncements is like fighting the Black Knight--after all his limbs have been cut off, that is. Sure, these days sometimes I'm in the mood to do it, but only when I'm in a really nasty mood, the kind of mood that makes one feel an intense urge to pull the wings off of flies. However, like pulling the wings off of flies, there's just no challenge to refuting McCarthy's nonsense. True, it does have to be done sometimes if only because at present McCarthy appears to be the loudest antivaccinationist out there, the one who's getting the most media attention, but increasingly slapping down her cult pseudoscience has become a chore. After all, look at something like this gem from Jenny:
Evan is now 5 years old and what might surprise a lot of you is that we've never been contacted by a single member of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics, or any other health authority to evaluate and understand how Evan recovered from autism. When Evan meets doctors and neurologists, to this day they tell us he was misdiagnosed -- that he never had autism to begin with. It's as if they are wired to believe that children can't recover from autism.So where's the cavalry? Where are all the doctors beating down our door to take a closer look at Evan? We think we know why they haven't arrived. Most of the parents we've met who have recovered their child from autism as we did (and we have met many) blame vaccines for their child's autism.
We think our health authorities don't want to open this can of worms, so they don't even look or listen. While there is strong debate on this topic, many parents of recovered children will tell you they didn't treat their child for autism; they treated them for vaccine injury.
Against such hunks o' hunks o' burnin' stupid coupled with malignant self-absorption, the gods themselves contend in vain. Or perhaps I should say "in pain," because pain is what happens to one's brain when Jenny cranks the Stupid-O-Meter past 11, all the way to 13 or 14--into the realm of stupid that would not just cause a rent in the fabric of the space-time continuum but collapse on itself like a black hole, sucking all intelligence, logic, and rationality into its unquenchable maw of dumb. Jenny can't believe she isn't taken seriously by the medical profession? I can't imagine why. Can you? Could it maybe--just maybe--have anything to do with McCarthy's ignorance and her extreme arrogance in thinking that her time perusing the University of Google's Antivaccination Institute qualifies her to bluster, swear at, and yell over experts in the field on Larry King's show as though she is on equal terms with them in scientific knowledge? Naah! Perish the thought! Or maybe it's her frequently sweeping denunciations of the CDC and entire vaccine establishment as wanting to "poison" our babies. Naahh, that couldn't be it, either!
What I find even more disturbing than the ignorance that Jenny McCarthy routinely delivers on the topic of vaccines and autism (such as the "toxins in vaccines" canard) is her apparent belief that she cured her son of autism and that she could make him autistic again if she ever lets up. Yes, Jenny McCarthy is definitely a piece of work these days. In fact, I rather miss the old bimbo, gross-out Jenny of a decade or more ago. She was certainly easier to tolerate than this loud-mouth "warrior mom" incarnation who's arrogant enough to think that the scientific community should accept her pronouncements that vaccines cause autism and that she has "cured" her son of autism over the conclusions of large, well-designed scientific and epidemiological studies. At least the old gross-out Jenny was occasionally--very occasionally--actually funny and entertaining. At least she didn't risk harming anything other than the sensitive stomachs of people who might not like to see her barfing for comic effect or being portrayed in a pool of her own menstrual blood. The new Jenny, on the other hand, has a very real power to influence parents not to vaccinate their children, contributing, along with other antivaccinationists, to the return of vaccine-preventable illness.
Too bad Rachel Sklar, the Media & Special Projects Editor of The Huffington Post, doesn't agree with me. She appears to have been quite impressed with McCarthy's antics on CNN:
Former MTV star Jenny McCarthy is now an outspoken activist on behalf of parents, ever since her son Evan was diagnosed with autism at age 2. McCarthy was on with King for the full hour, and her passion and fierceness was riveting as she described how parents kept having identical stories about a perfectly healthy child getting immunized, coming down with a fever and never quite being the same again.
What Sklar calls "passion," I call boorishness. Be that as it may, in particular Sklar seemed impressed with this statement by McCarthy:
I believe that parents' anecdotal information is science-based information. And when the entire world is screaming the same thing -- doctor, I came home. He had a fever. He stopped speaking and then he became autistic. I can't -- I can see if it was just one parent saying this. But when so many -- and I speak to thousands of moms every weekend and they're all standing up and saying the same thing. It's time to start listening to that. That is science-based information. Parents' anecdotal is science-based information.
The stupid here really burns (even by Jenny McCarthy standards), and Sklar just eats it up, letting it digest in her gut and be absorbed into her bloodstream to make her stupid too. If Sklar had two neurons remaining to rub together, she'd realize how easy it is to confuse correlation with causation, which is what parents who think that vaccines caused their children's autism do all that time, no matter how intelligent they are. It's a very seductive logical fallacy, a normal human failing in reasoning to which we are all prone. Indeed, humans are always mistaking correlation of unrelated incidents with causation, and that's one reason why the scientific method and epidemiology are so essential to trying to differentiate correlations that are likely to represent causation from those that are not. One reason that the myth that vaccines cause autism is so pervasive is because the first symptoms of autism often occur around the same time that children are getting series of vaccinations. Because in the U.S. this represents hundreds of thousands, if not millions of children, it is not surprising that a a significant number of children diagnosed with autism who regress manifest their regression in close temporal proximity to having received a vaccine or vaccines. That doesn't necessarily mean that the vaccine(s) caused the regression, and several large epidemiological studies have shown us that there is no epidemiological link between vaccines and autism.
Anecdotal evidence, particularly in cases as emotionally charged as a parent observing her child regress, cannot be definitive. At best, if it's clearly documented, it might serve as the basis for the generation of hypotheses to be tested--at best. Steve Novella has written a very accessible and useful guide to what the true role of anecdotes in science-based medicine is, and Prometheus has written a series of excellent posts about why testimonial evidence can be particularly deceptive even to very intelligent people. Sklar should read them before she credulously cheers on such idiocy from know-nothings like McCarthy. So should McCarthy, but I have much less hope that she would ever understand them, much less accept that the plural of "anecdotes" is not "data" and that anecdotes are considered a very weak form of scientific evidence, weaker still if they're poorly documented.
Sklar also cheered on McCarthy's boorish behavior on the show, behavior that, based on her entire career and her activities since she stopped being an "indigo mom" and started being a "warrior mom" fighting what she seems to think to be the evils of vaccination, should have come as no surprise:
In the second half of the program, two pediatricians joined the program who didn't believe that there was a link between vaccines and autism, and McCarthy wasn't having any of it. "Are we considered acceptable losses?" she asked dangerously after a point was raised on the cost-benefit of vaccinations, and what they offered in terms of prevention. "Give my son the measles! I'll take that over autism any day." It was also around that point that she called the standard vaccination program "bullshit" without missing a beat.
I just wrote about how unbelievably, incredibly, irredeemably stupid preferring the measles to vaccination against measles is. Given that there is no good evidence that vaccines cause autism, McCarthy's "preferring" the measles, which can cause encephalitis, deafness, and death, is irresponsible and inexcusable. So is Sklar's credulous agreement with McCarthy's pronouncements:
The whole show was riveting and so is the read, if you want to check out the transcript here. I'm with Jenny, 1 in 150 is a staggering number and these dots don't connect any other way.
There's no other way to put it: Sklar's stupid, it burns too. Maybe not at the supernova intensity that McCarthy's does, but it still burns pretty darned hot. Contrary to the Sklar's lack of imagination, which clearly keeps her from seeing more than one explanation for this phenomenon, the dots do "connect." Paul Shattuck showed how the dots "connect," as did a more recent study (which I may blog about soon). It's called broadening the diagnostic criteria (which occurred in the early 1990s for autism) and diagnostic substitution. Children who in the past would have been diagnosed with mental retardation or a learning disability are now frequently being diagnosed with autism or autism spectrum disorders, hence the apparent massive apparent increase in autism prevalence since the early 1990s.
The antivaccinationist slant of HuffPo continues, and I'm guessing that Sklar has at least something to do with it. Meanwhile, Sklar's not the only credulous fool posting glowing reviews about Jenny McCarthy's CNN performance on HuffPo. We also have Alison Rose Levy mining into arguably even greater depths of stupid about vaccines and autism:
Unfortunately, there's much that this research focus fails to address. The totality of the human being, the complexity of human health factors, the wide range of health stressors, the multiplier effect when all of these variables interact, not to mention the biochemical individuality of each human being. Yes, each of us is unique.Testing single vaccine ingredients to refute vaccinations as a major autism contributor is inconclusive, especially given the poor nature of the studies. Vaccines are not single agents.
Imagine consuming several different type of cocktails at once. Each cocktail contains multiple infectious agents, microbes, and metals acting together and creating new and unexamined synergies in interaction with each individual. Our research model doesn't assess those synergies or predict which individuals are vulnerable.
So when science repeatedly proffers findings that "No, it isn't this single agent," rather than proving that vaccinations don't precipitate autism, what's demonstrated are the limitations of the modern reductive research approach.
Yes, regular readers will recognize right away that Levy is mindlessly parroting the dreaded "toxin" myth about vaccines. She's repeating the ideal antivaccinationist fallacy, too. From the perspective of antivaccinationists and their belief that vaccination is too dangerous to continue to be mandatory, the problem with the thimerosal hypothesis as an explanation for the apparently increasing prevalence of autism was always that the hypothesis produced a relatively easily testable hypothesis, a test of which could yield a concrete, inarguable falsification of the hypothesis. If thimerosal were to be removed or drastically reduced in vaccines, then the thimerosal-autism hypothesis would predict that autism prevalence should fall. Well, guess what? Thimerosal was removed from vaccines by late 2001, and autism prevalence has not shown any sign of decreasing, thus refuting the thimerosal-autism hypothesis about as definitively as it can be refuted. Antivaccinationists aren't about to make that mistake again, hence the origin of the amazing ever-changing "toxins in vaccines" myth, where antivaccinationists can postulate endless "interactions" between various postulated "toxins" in vaccines. Of course, they opine, each and every one of these "interactions" could be what causes autism, intentionally producing such a large number of trivial hypotheses that they can never all be tested and refuted. Even if they could, there's the "every person is unique" gambit, meant to imply that even though the evidence doesn't support the contentions that vaccines cause autism it can't be applied to individual cases.
And don't even get me started on Levy's citing Rustum Roy as an "authority" on healing, which really shows where she's coming from. Remember that Roy is a woo-meister supreme who has justified homeopathy with all sorts of dubious arguments.
Sadly, nearly three years after HuffPo's start, it's clear to me that it has not changed its game one whit. True the HuffPo may on occasion allow a blogger who has not drunk the Kool Aid when it comes to claims that vaccines cause autism write a post arguing against a link between vaccines and autism, but that's just window-dressing. At its core, HuffPo culture appears to remain deeply antivaccinationist. After all, one of its editors is clearly quite sympathetic to Jenny McCarthy while David Kirby, Deirdre Imus, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (now joined by Alison Rose Levy) crank out antivaccination nonsense. Antivaccinationism is clearly so deeply ingrained in the HuffPo blogging culture that it is not going to be dislodged unless Her Highness herself intervenes, a highly unlikely possibility. Clearly, the next phase in HuffPo's antivaccination evolution will be to invite Jenny McCarthy to become a regular blogger. It's coming. Just you wait.
Even worse, she'll fit right in from day one.







Comments
In Salem colony, an old woman mumbled curses, and girls fell ill with a mysterious syndrome. Hanging old women failed to cure them, just as surely as Jenny failed to cure her son. Those that fail to learn from history...
Posted by: Ruth | April 9, 2008 12:17 PM
I'd call Dunning-Kruger effect but I'm pretty sure no amount of training or education will change McCarthy's stupidity or opinion on Vaccinations and Autism.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 9, 2008 12:45 PM
Orac - you said "Children who in the past would have been diagnosed with mental retardation or a learning disability are not being diagnosed with autism or autism spectrum disorders, hence the apparent massive increase since the early 1990s." Did you mean to say "...are NOW being diagnosed..." (sorry, I'm an HTML idiot so have trouble with using bold or italics instead)
I'm confused by what you mean, otherwise.
Posted by: Dawn | April 9, 2008 1:24 PM
Not to mention that the following is physically impossible.
I speak to thousands of moms every weekend and they're all standing up and saying the same thing
I guess she means that she speaks to thousands of moms every weekend, some of whom stand up and say the same thing.
Or maybe the moms are all speaking simultaneously :)
Jenny is not a very honest person, and she can't get her stories straight, on top of everything else.
Posted by: Joseph | April 9, 2008 2:24 PM
No, she meant what she said---but all the moms are simultaneously shouting "Shut the f*** up, f***wit!"
Posted by: PalMD | April 9, 2008 2:59 PM
For someone who is supposedly bored by Jenny McCarthy you do spend quite a bit of your day blogging about her and others who must also bore you. When do you find the time to actually practice medicine?
Posted by: For Someone Who Is Bored ... | April 9, 2008 3:07 PM
McCarthy may believe what she says but it is more likely that she is dishonest. She points out in her book on her son's "autism and recovery" that she chain smoked through pregnancy but it was the vaccines that caused the autism not her smoking or perhaps other substance abuse. Talk about poisoning children, she need only look in the mirror for the cause and it's not because she took him for his vaccines.
Posted by: ba | April 9, 2008 3:11 PM
Too true, PalMD. Parents have a vested interest in being taken seriously. We need to be listened to and believed when we describe our kids and their health issues. The last thing we need is for self-appointed advocates like McCarthy making parents look ignorant and irrational. She is a terrible representative for us.
Posted by: Lenora | April 9, 2008 3:20 PM
When was the last time I blogged about Jenny McCarthy as a main topic of a post? (A throwaway mention as part of a post that was primarily about someone or something else doesn't count.) Hint: It's been well over a month since I did a brief one and the last time I did a post this long that was primarily about Jenny McCarthy was before the first of the year.
Yeah, I do mention her frequently as an example of celebrity antivaccination lunacy because she's a convenient example, but you'll notice I don't spend much time anymore actually seriously refuting her idiocy because, well, it's so idiotic.
And boring.
As for how I find the time, I addressed that a really long time ago.
Posted by: Orac | April 9, 2008 3:22 PM
It doesn't take nearly as long as you might imagine to deconstruct nonsense. Anti-vaxers, along with creationists and most other purveyors of pseudoscience, are extremely helpful in this regard, in that they seldom if ever come up with any new arguments. Thus it's not too hard for those of us who care about science, reason, and evidence-based medicine to thump them soundly without taking too much time out of our days.
Posted by: DanioPhD | April 9, 2008 3:26 PM
"As for how I find the time, I addressed that a really long time ago".
Don't you have a family or friends? Whatever... Carry on.
Posted by: Wasted Time | April 9, 2008 4:57 PM
Really? That's your comment? Good one. Some people are good at managing their time and able to carry one more than one interest at a time. I'm sorry if your organizational skills preclude you from this ability.
Now how about addressing the subject matter of the Post? Namely that Jenny McCarthy is a blithering idiot whose arrogance of ignorance on at least the entire spectrum of Science is quite astounding.
I'm sure she's very knowledgeable in fake vomit and fart noises. Maybe she suffers from the same organizational challenges your above question suggests?
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 9, 2008 5:34 PM
"Don't you have a family or friends? Whatever... Carry on."
Predictable trolls are predictable.
http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/11/doggerel-45-why-are-you-so-obsessed.html
Posted by: Laser Potato | April 9, 2008 5:35 PM
In the course of researching the American Family Association's "action alert" on McDonald's, I found out that MickeyD's supports immunization. Wait 'till the Mercury Militia finds that out!
Posted by: Liz Ditz | April 9, 2008 6:30 PM
I agree completely, but give it up. This junk has entered the public psyche and will never go away, no matter what. Just like "He went out without his hat and got pneumonia."
Posted by: Paul Prescott | April 9, 2008 6:38 PM
As an unrepentant liberal, I must say I find it disturbing that such nonsense (the anti-vax stuff) finds a home in the heads of many other liberals. I'm a political information junkie, and as such I read the Huffington Post daily. I don't consider it "fair and balanced" but it is often a good source of fresh political news. I've always associated liberalism with open-mindedness and fact-based opinions. Unfortunately not many are immune from magical thinking; and obviously some conflate liberal thought with rejecting convention, even when it happens to have all the facts on its side. So yeah. It's embarrassing to see that crap over there. Or anywhere. Even liberals succumb to the human need to have answers when none exist, or to assign blame for that which can't be helped.
Posted by: Sid Schwab | April 9, 2008 6:53 PM
Hi--
I tried to post a few days ago, but your server rejected me many times. Believe it or not, it was a good post.
There's an association between vaccines and autism, diabetes, arthritis, multiple sclerosis and other diseases.
Call it a "debated," "disputed" or "tenuous" link but claiming that there's no association at all flies in the face of the many excellent studies published in mainstream medical journals which you and I read. Everything from JAMA to J. Neurology.
Yes,the majority of studies dispute the connection. This doesn't negate the research on the "other" side though.
If this post goes through, I have a little more to say.
Best,
Jay
Posted by: Jay Gordon | April 9, 2008 7:13 PM
Actually, there is a problem with commenting on this blog. I've been bugging the techies about it for at least a month now. Your comment from a couple of days ago actually went through several times. Consequently, I deleted the duplicates and left (I hope) only one copy. I also even replied to you. In fact, one reason I bug the techies is because I get tired of deleting duplicate, triplicate, quadruplicate, etc. comments, and the commenting problem is irritating the heck out of my readers.
That being said, if you get an error message when posting, please wait a minute and then check to see if your comment actually went through to appear on the blog before trying to post it again. The error message almost never means that your comment didn't go through.
Finally, the research showing a "connection" is almost invariably of very poor quality. I have reviewed the literature on a regular basis over the two years since I became interested in the pseudoscience that claims that vaccines cause autism--or anything of the other chronic diseases that antivaccinationists claim they do. So if you actually have high quality studies that demonstrate a link between mercury and autism or vaccines and autism, bring 'em on. I'd be interested to see them. However, I rather suspect that you'll just refer to the same old lousy studies that the mercury militia always cites when trying to make its case.
Surprise me, though. I don't claim to have read every study about this topic that's been published.
Contrary to what you may think, I would rethink my conclusion that vaccines are not associate with autism or the other chronic diseases if I saw compelling scientific evidence on par with the evidence showing no link. However, I warn you, if you're going to try to bring up the Hannah Poling case, I've already written extensively about that, for example, this.
Finally, I realize that you probably don't like me unloading on your patient's mother like that, but as long as she spews truly idiotic unscientific nonsense about vaccines, she deserves every word of it.
Posted by: Orac | April 9, 2008 7:35 PM
My 2 year-old son just had a varicella vaccine and so far each day post-vaccination brings on a slew of new words. Is this a vaccine reaction? Should I call Jenny? Can she help me recover my baby?
Jenny McCarthy is dumb and dangerous and I am glad you have blogged about her because parents, average parents are choosing to believe her. She is offering the brass ring to those that will "recover" their autistic children or prevent autism from happening if only they listen to her (and buy her book of course). But part of that entails refusing vaccinations. 'I'm not against vaccinations', my ass. Anyone who would ignorantly proclaim a natural measles infection is preferable to the vaccine is not in favour of vaccines, any vaccines. Period. Sadly, she is exhibiting undue influence over the vaccine issue with parents, particularly mothers who rabidly defend her as though she were the second coming. Sad and pathetic really.
Posted by: Estellea | April 9, 2008 7:41 PM
Jay Gordon: "Call it a "debated," "disputed" or "tenuous" link but claiming that there's no association at all flies in the face of the many excellent studies published in mainstream medical journals which you and I read. Everything from JAMA to J. Neurology."
Name one "excellent" study.
Posted by: notmercury | April 9, 2008 7:47 PM
While I usually don't whack anti-vaxxers, I do whack creationists, but I usually do it as an excuse to discuss some interesting biology that shows just how stupid a particular creationist claim is. Maybe there's a way to do that with the anti-vax stuff, so you don't get bored?
On a completely unrelated note, I'm tangentially involved with some cystic fibrosis research, and I have to say CF patients and families are very sane about 'their' disease. Any thoughts why CF doesn't attract dumbitude, while vaccination does? They're both pretty debilitating.
Posted by: Mike the Mad Biologist | April 9, 2008 7:50 PM
Mike - did you mean "while AUTISM does"?
Posted by: Militant Agnostic | April 9, 2008 7:58 PM
Damn, Orac. Your response to Dr. Gordon on the first Kirby/Olmstead thread was splendidly, blisteringly, awesome. I am prostrate with admiration, O blinking pyrex box of wisdom.
Posted by: DanioPhD | April 9, 2008 8:10 PM
When it comes to autism and vaccination, the only epidemiological research that exists claiming to have found an association is written by Geier & Geier. That in itself makes it suspect. Verstraeten et al. is often said to have found an association, at least in the early drafts. I've reviewed the drafts and that's not true. Besides, Thompson et al. (2007) is basically a really well done follow-up of most of Verstraeten et al.
So what's left? Hornig's "mouse model" which failed to replicate recently? Perhaps Holmes et al. which found non-autistic kids to have really high hair mercury levels and autistic kids normal levels?
Posted by: Joseph | April 9, 2008 8:25 PM
1. Orac's splendidly, blisteringly, awesome response to Gordon.
2. Another way the "vaccinations cause autism" idiocy spreads: Last weekend, I went to a professional development seminar for teachers and occupational therapists. The presenter, Jan Olsen twice told the audience of approximately 100 that her grandson had acquired "full-blown autism" from vaccines, but with diet and other therapies had recovered enough that he "just has" Asperger's.
Sigh. I didn't challenge her on it, as I was there to learn some techniques. I still feel like a chicken.
I will write a letter, at some point.
Posted by: Liz Ditz | April 9, 2008 8:35 PM
Mike:
It is my contention that if the majority of the people who support quackery were diagnosed with a fatal disease (or their children) they'd run to the closest medical doctor for intervention. I challenge anyone to have several ischemic strokes and not seek immediate medical help. Only the most die hard dellusionist would allow themselves to die without the hope and amelioration of pain that medicine provides. Or, that's what I think would/does happen, anyway.
Liesl
Posted by: Liesl | April 9, 2008 8:40 PM
"claiming that there's no association at all flies in the face of the many excellent studies published in mainstream medical journals which you and I read."
BS, unless we're counting the pay-for-publish spam that the DAN!ites flatulate onto the scientific world. Or perhaps we're talking about real science (non-DAN!) that gets creatively interpreted.
Posted by: Hey Zeus is my homeboy | April 9, 2008 8:56 PM
Jay Gordon blithely says vaccines are associated with "autism, diabetes, arthritis, multiple sclerosis and other diseases."
Easy to type but I don't think you can back it up. Give it a try. I think you will fail.
Posted by: isles | April 9, 2008 10:21 PM
Jenny McCarthy's formerly autistic kid looks like he's doing pretty good. If she was smart enough to fix his brain, that means she's a lot smarter than you bunch of boneheads.
Posted by: John Best | April 9, 2008 10:35 PM
I had an interesting and heartening experience this afternoon.
I went to the UC Davis MIND Institute to hear Dr. Laura Schreibman... of UC San Diego, I think...speak.
She's a behaviorist. I'll let that go for the time being.
Her second presentation was called the Science and Fiction of Autism... which is the title of her book.
Anyway, a couple of times toward the beginning of her presentation she referred to McCarthy, the first time she said something like, "any actress with a book..." in the context of people proposing baseless cures for autism.
When Schreibman referred to Jenny as "any actress with a book" audience laughed! I mean they really laughed. Almost all of them, it was loud and it was like, "Oh brother, HER!!??"
Each time Schreibman referred to Jenny they had a similar reaction, and eventually Schreibman named her and dismantled the idea that the GFCF diet had any scientific backing. Each time the reaction of the audience was, "boy, don't we know it!"
They sort of groaned when she brought up chelation, too (that was apart from Jenny, just in a discussion of unproven therapies.)
I hope that the MIND will put the lectures online as they usually do.
Schreibman dropped the ball several times, and I didn't have time to stick around and ask her questions at the end of the second talk, so I couldn't correct her on any of them....
still, the Jenny McCarthy thing was so refreshing.
I would have expected "knowing laughs" from maybe 10 people, but this was group of about 150, I think.... the room was at capacity or close to it. I'd say about half of the audience was laughing AT Jenny McCarthy's ideas, and I didn't see anyone sulking in response to everyone else laughing, either, though I suppose there were some who did.
I don't know the composition of the audience, but I'd suppose that it was more than half ABA providers and school teachers and maybe some parents and grandparents, besides a good bunch of MIND docs (maybe 10 of them) and Dr. Ron Huff of the Cal DDS. No Rick Rollens or Lenny Schafer. None of the local mercury dads as far as I could tell.
Posted by: Ms. Clark | April 10, 2008 12:22 AM
Orac protested
"As for how I find the time, I addressed that a really long time ago."
and linked to another lenghty (no doubt time consuming) tract.
Are you Ben Goldacre in disguise?
http://www.slingshotpublications.com/dwarfs.html
Posted by: ilikesubpoenas | April 10, 2008 3:04 AM
I too am a lefty, as I am really annoyed at the right wing religionists and their inane ignorance of science-when it doesn't suit their purpose. Having said that, I groan and hold my head when the left goes on it's own anti-scientific rants. These don't seem to be religiously based, but do seem to be based on their own whack conspiracy theories. Has anyone noticed that 9/11 conspiracy nuts overlap political parties?
Posted by: Phil | April 10, 2008 3:06 AM
Liz,
"Last weekend, I went to a professional development seminar for teachers and occupational therapists. The presenter, Jan Olsen twice told the audience of approximately 100 that her grandson had acquired "full-blown autism" from vaccines, but with diet and other therapies had recovered enough that he "just has" Asperger's."
Was that a gratuitous extra or was there anything relevant to a workshop on learning how to develop handwriting skills? Thanks for the comment--that's very interesting.
Ms. Clark,
Thanks for the note on the Schreibman talk and the audience response. I hope the M.I.N.D Institute gets it up on video soon.
Posted by: Regan | April 10, 2008 4:23 AM
"And don't even get me started on Levy's citing Rustum Roy as an "authority" on healing, which really shows where she's coming from. Remember that Roy is a woo-meister supreme who has justified homeopathy with all sorts of dubious arguments."
He now seems to have got involved with "The Intention Experiment":
http://theintentionexperiment.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=848178:BlogPost:92122
Posted by: Mojo | April 10, 2008 8:29 AM
I am loving Ms. Clark's recounting of people laughing at the notion of Jenny McCarthy knowing something about autism. I'm glad not everybody has been snowed by her mommy act.
Posted by: isles | April 10, 2008 10:55 AM
I think she is a scientologist. They don't buy into psychology/psychiatry. Remember tom cruise' meltdown with matt lauer?
Im pretty sure scientology is behind it. Dont forget John Travolta's son Jet also has some form of autism and he refuses to get help for him. denial
Posted by: craig | April 10, 2008 11:04 AM
I'm forwarding this post to my medical students so they will learn that I am not the only curmudgeon ranting about this subject.
Posted by: Mike K | April 10, 2008 11:46 AM
John Best;
"Jenny McCarthy's formerly autistic kid looks like he's doing pretty good. If she was smart enough to fix his brain, that means she's a lot smarter than you bunch of boneheads."
As a spouse of a 30+ year Special Education teacher I can say without equivocation your comment "formerly autistic" is quite nieve at a level I cannot address in this forum.
"If she was smart enough to fix his brain"
Again, I realize you are likely minimizing your typing time with this comment however, realize that there are teaching professionals that have and are dealing with the Autism issue for many years and have become quite familiar with developmental issues of autism prior to the realization that it even was an issue.
There is no fixing it, there is no formerly autistic, there is quite simply a varying degree of a pervasive developmental disorder that is managed through intensive educational therapy.
Jenny McCarthy's son as far as I know has no publicly listed diagnosis as to his condition or the degree of his autism and there is no reference to any therapy plan or even a IEP that documents his progress. Her son's response or lack there of to therapies is merely a conversation piece that is become tiresome in its loose reference.
Please stop making vague references to brain fixing and stating things like formerly Autistic. It's pathetic. Anyone that spends any number of years dedicating themselves to the education of children with pervasive developmental disorders finds these statements nieve.
Children with autism make educational progress and develop in thier own way based on the degree of the condition and the specific variations of the conditions.
Where are talking about education and development here not selling Orange Glow cleaner.
Posted by: Uncle Dave | April 10, 2008 1:05 PM
Uncle Dave,
I admire the special ed. teachers who have fought an impossible battle trying to educate autistic children who were incapable of learning anything. It takes a special person to keep trying when they know they will never succeed.
Now, we know that relying on teachers to improve the autistic condition is an obsolete practice. Since we know that most autism is mercury poisoning, we now rely on the few decent people in the medical profession to extract the mercury from the childrens' brains. Once that is accomplished, some of the kids are capable of learning.
The problem with old teachers, Dave, is that most of them stop learning themselves. Your wife must be one of these. You should have her do some reading at www.oracknows.com to catch up on the knowledge we have gained in the last 10 years.
Autism is curable. Teachers have nothing to do with curing it. Your statements are not just naive. They're outright ignorant.
Posted by: John Best | April 10, 2008 1:24 PM
Of course McCarthy's son had autism.
He was vaccinated, wasn't he?
QED
Posted by: That's Logic | April 10, 2008 1:41 PM
Actually, I know of a particular case where a vaccine did cause "autism". In this case, the child had his first MMR, and had a massive allergic reaction. Grand mal seizures and anaphylaxis, in the pediatrician's office within a few minutes of getting the vaccine. The brain damage from the hypoxia caused him to have a life-long seizure disorder, and severe retardation. Several of his symptoms are similar to various symptoms of autism, and those particular symptoms respond to the same treatments that work with autistic people with those symptoms, but his behavior and neurologic symptoms are distinct enough that he does not have a diagnosis of autism.
So, anyway, I'd call this the case of the exception that proves the rule. Yes, vaccines can cause injury and death (this young man would have died if it were not for the quick action of the pediatrician -- one good reason to have vaccinations at a doctors office rather than dept of health or clinic with no doctor nearby.) But it's quite rare, and pretty obvious when it happens.
Posted by: cathyf | April 10, 2008 1:54 PM
It's obvious that this guy is the perfect representative for Generation Rescue. Keep up the great work, you make JB proud.
Posted by: It's Obvious | April 10, 2008 1:55 PM
Well I can certainly agree with you that teachers have nothing to do with curing Autism.
However, she has NOT fought an impossible battle. I am happy to say that she has acutally had quite a bit of success in the area of education with Autistic children.
The reason for her success contrary to your statement is that autistic children are capable of learning quite a bit- it's not very easy but they are capable of learning to varying degrees. Many autistic children are severely socially unresponsive and will remain that way for thier entire life but that often has no association with thier capacity to retain and compute information.
I will not make an assumption based on your statement "...who were incapable of learning anything".
I must apologize however, I am speaking for another person in my response, which is not fair to that person specifically as a professional in the field (my wife).
Posted by: Uncle Dave | April 10, 2008 2:12 PM
Uncle Dave:
Assume away.
Do not, however, assume that John Best is arguing in good faith, honestly mistaken, capable of the slightest shred of compassion, or on speaking terms with the real world. None of these, as should be obvious to anyone sane once they've familiarized themselves with his record, are true.
Posted by: Azkyroth | April 10, 2008 3:36 PM
Then you probably shouldn't open your post by describing his situation as one in which "vaccines caused autism," should you?
(Seriously, the Mercury Militia are on a par with the Discovery Institute in their flagrant, malicious dishonesty. Expect to see yourself misleadingly quoted in the future.)
Posted by: Azkyroth | April 10, 2008 3:38 PM
I note the dishonest manner in which you have framed your opponents as "antivaccinationists", as if objecting to one or more vaccines for their children and the use of federal and state power to enforce compliance paints them as being against the use of vaccines at all.
Well done, both you and Insty.
Posted by: Mike Jackson | April 10, 2008 3:59 PM
Azkyroth;
Point well taken.
Sometimes I am annoyed with myself as to why I even bother.
Posted by: Uncle Dave | April 10, 2008 4:10 PM
It's not "dishonest" at all. Indeed, you're attacking a straw man:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/antivaccination_propaganda_about_the_pol.php
An excerpt:
In fact, I have pointed out that the vast majority of the parents whose concern has been whipped up by this fearmongering are not "antivaccine," but the people whipping up their fear based on pseudoscience most certainly are, even if they would never admit it:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/11/cries_the_antivaccinationist_why_are_we.php
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/still_more_evidence_that_its_all_about_t_2.php
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/02/still_more_evidence_that_its_all_about_t.php
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/02/still_more_evidence_that_its_all_about_t_1.php
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/the_new_strategy_of_the_antivaccination.php
This whole "we're not antivaccine, we're pro safe vaccine" is nothing more than PR and propaganda. The leaders of the antivaccination movement knew they had a problem with being perceived (rightly in my opinion) as "anti-vaccine"; so they came up with a nice little slogan to try to reframe themselves. I plan to keep calling them on their disingenuousness.
As for the Huffington Post's bloggers, some are antivaccine (like Deirdre Imus, Janet Grilo, Dr. Jay Gordon, and RFK, Jr.); some are useful idiots (like Rachel Sklar) who don't have enough critical thinking skills to see through the pseudoscience and are thus easily enamored by antivaccinationists or useful idiots like Jenny McCarthy (who is both a useful idiot and an antivaccinationist); and some I haven't made my mind up yet whether they're antivaccinationist, opportunists, or useful idiots (David Kirby, for example).
As for whether the government should require vaccination, that's far more of a political issue than a medical or scientific one.
Posted by: Orac | April 10, 2008 4:21 PM
"It's not "dishonest" at all. Indeed, you're attacking a straw man."
How ironic. You set up your "antivaccinationists" strawman and then protest about "strawmen", which in this case consists of your choice of description, proudly headlined. Some "strawman".
Let's see. How about a discussion about those who oppose government mandated religion. We'll call them the "antireligionists" just to keep things honest and fair.
Posted by: Mike Jackson | April 10, 2008 4:45 PM
"How ironic. You set up your "antivaccinationists" strawman"
It's not a strawman if it's true, SUE.
Posted by: Laser Potato | April 10, 2008 4:54 PM
You might give some thought to the possibility of a causal link there...
Posted by: Azkyroth | April 10, 2008 7:12 PM
Dr. Gordon,
No one is saying that McCarthy is evil. They ARE saying she is ignorant. Additionally, she is dangerous.
You of all people should be familiar with the concept of Herd Immunity, especially since most vaccines are only about 95% effective. The larger the pool of people vaccinated, the lower the possibility that a particular disease will be able to breed.
When someone breaks this barrier, it brings danger to the entire group, especially to those who are more susceptible to infection.
If a parent doesn't want to vaccinate, then that's fine and entirely their choice. However, at that point, keep your children out of public schools and away from other children. If they infect my child, expect to see a lawsuit for everything that parent owns.
Posted by: Russ | April 10, 2008 7:28 PM
All right, I'll be polite, but tough. If you're not anti-vaccine, how come you talk the antivaccine talk so well? For example, you claim that the "risks" of the MMR outweigh its benefits, which is a load of...well, I promised to try to be somewhat polite so I won't say what I thought. Another example is your posting dubious testimonials claiming that mercury causes autism on your website, as well as linking to Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s dishonest Salon.com/Rolling Stone article. Also, your whole "respects the complexity of the infant's immune system" bit is straight out of the antivax playbook. Surely you must know that. (If you don't, you're hopelessly naive.) It's also a conveniently vague and meaningless statement that sounds profound on the surface but when thought about a bit more is revealed to signify nothing. Perhaps I'm wrong, though. Perhaps you could educate me by explaining to me exactly what you mean by "respects the complexity of the infant's immune system." Perhaps you could also explain to me just what a vaccine schedule that does that might look like and what the science is that would support your vision of what the vaccine schedule should look like. Specifics, backed up by good science and epidemiology, impress me far more than vague platitudes about infant's immune systems. Whenever I see you in the comments, you're long on vague statements and unhappiness at my uncouthness and "insolence" but mighty short on substance.
This is really lame. I'm sorry, but there's just no other way to put it. You admit that the vast preponderance of medical research refutes the association between vaccines and autism, but you still seem to believe that there is one and fall back on "appearance of conflict of interest." I'm glad you realize that the preponderance of medical evidence doesn't support your position, but if you want to talk about conflicts of interest, how about Mark and David Geier? Kathleen Seidel has extensively documented their conflicts of interest and unethical behavior. They produce dubious studies supporting a vaccine-autism link to try to make them more credible as "expert" witnesses in vaccine lawsuits. What about Andrew Wakefield? He was paid by trial attorneys before he did his research and he had a patent application on a rival measles vaccine designed to supplant the MMR, as Brian Deerfield documented extensively. And don't even get me started on Rashid Buttar, the doctor who has become very wealthy by treating autistic children with chelation therapy and who is being investigated by the North Carolina Medical Board.
I'm not religious, but there is a Bible passage that describes the antivaccination movement when it rants about "conflicts of interest" in the pharmaceutical industry:
This doesn't even take into account all the "biomedical" docs out there who have discovered quite the nice livelihood treating autism with various dubious supplements and other therapies based on the bogus "vaccine injury" concept of autism. Yes, I think Jesus' saying applies quite well to the vaccine "critics." So does another saying: "Pot. Kettle. Black."
Straw man.
I never said Jenny McCarthy was evil. I'm sure she thinks she's doing great good. However, the road to hell, as they say, is paved with good intentions, particularly when those intentions are mixed with toxic ignorance. In any case, what I did say was she was ignorant, stupid, and arrogant, all of which are assessments based on her public statements and behavior about autism and vaccines. I pointed out ample examples to support my assessment in my last response to you (to which you never replied; you don't seem too interested in a dialogue other than a hit-and-run comment about a post you don't like). I see no reason to go over them again.
However, I do see a reason to ask you this: How on earth do you think Jenny McCarthy "broadens" the discussion? She's a one-note propaganda machine. To her, it's the vaccines. To Generation Rescue, it was the vaccines alone, but since it's broadened to conveniently unnamed and unquantified "environmental" toxins--mainly because GR finally figured out that the thimerosal bogeyman was being destroyed by science and epidemiology.
No, Jenny McCarthy and her ilk do nothing to "broaden" the discussion of anything. They're one note propaganda machines and conspiracy theorists.
Dr. Gordon, you seem like a reasonable guy otherwise. Open your eyes and see! Actually read the writings of the people you're associating yourself with.
Posted by: Orac | April 10, 200