Orac is the nom de blog of a (not so) humble pseudonymous surgeon/scientist with an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his miscellaneous verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few will. (Continued 
Let's face it, I've been at this "anti-antii-vax" thing for quite a while now. This December, this blog will have been in existence for five years. Even before that cold, gray Saturday afternoon nearly five years ago when, on a whim, I started up a blog on Blogspot that became the first incarnation of Respectful Insolence, I had been a regular presence on the Usenet newsgroup misc.health.alternative for at least three years before that. There, besides quackery, I got my first taste of the lies of the anti-vaccine movement from the likes of denizens of the newsgroup like Jan Drew and Ilena Rosenthal, who's best known for her silicone breast implant conspiracy theories but by the principles of crank magnetism is also an anti-vaccinationist, to name a couple.
I'm not mentioning this to show what an old fart I am, blogospherically speaking, but rather to say that I've been around a while. I thought I had knew about pretty much every major anti-vaccine website and blog out there, and my connections usually let me know about new ones very rapidly. So it was to my surprise to see that there's a slick new anti-vaccine website in town, and that it's been around at least a month now. Worse, it's a website that's using the authority of physicians to try to persuade the public that it's not a load of pseudoscience. Echoing the infamous website of the granddaddy of modern anti-vaccine groups, the National Vaccine Information Center (which I've blogged about before, natch!), this website is known as the Medical Voices Vaccine Information Center.
If there's one thing I can say about it, it's run, don't walk, away from these doctors.
But who are the doctors who are responsible for this happy haven of anti-vaccine pseudoscience and quackery? I'll get to that in a minute, along with a discussion of just how bad this site is. But, first, let's see what it's all about:
About
Medical Voices Vaccine Information Center brings awareness of vaccine issues to the forefront via medical doctors. Newly under development as of July 2009, the site will quickly become a massive library of articles, videos and presentations by doctors speaking out on the dangers of vaccines. The aim is to be an educational site for doctors who are beginning to question and become aware of the problems caused by vaccines and, additionally, a go-to resource for the public at large.Vision Statement
Medical Voices Vaccine Information Center will become the most comprehensive educational center on the Internet for physicians seeking the truth about vaccines. This will change healthcare as we know it.Mission Statement
Medical Voices Vaccine Information Center will provide educational tools through media including articles, videos, podcasts and webinars to everyone seeking the truth about vaccines.
Ugh. It figures. They'd have to have the "vision thing" down, wouldn't they? Too bad it's a vision of resurgent infectious diseases, suffering, and death. I do like the the antivax-speak, though. "beginning to question and become aware of the problems caused by vaccines" is code for "turning into an anti-vaccine loon," and this website is there to help you along that path if you're so inclined--with the authority of doctors, yet. Of course, to such people, the "truth" about vaccines is anything but, and it's really sad to see physicians promoting misinformation and anti-vaccine canards. Indeed, I find this far more disturbing than even seeing Dr. Michael Egnor butcher biology and evolution. While Dr. Egnor only endangers the brains of those who listen to them, these physicians endanger public health by discouraging vaccination, a profound betrayal of their Hippocratic Oath.
So who's behind this propaganda site? Let's take a look:
Board of Directors
Sherri Tenpenny, DO
Mayer Eisenstein, MD, JD, MPHBoard of Advisors
Harold Buttram, MD
Professor Leo Rebello, ND, MD, PhD, DSc., F.F.Hom., DHS, MBAPresident
Nick Haas
In case you don't know who these "luminaries" are, Sherri Tenpenny is an infamous anti-vaccine activist whose website, book (Saying No To Vaccines), book blog, and blog are chock full of vaccine pseudoscience. Heck, she even has her own page on Whale.to and has appeared on über-crank Alex Jones' show (he of Prison Planet) to lay down some fine conspiracy mongering about the swine flu. Yes, if I were looking for reliable information about vaccines, Dr. Tenpenny is someone I'd go to...not.
Then there's Mayer Eisenstein. We've encountered Dr. Eisenstein multiple times before, first making data-free claims about how there is virtually no autism among the unvaccinated children in his crunchy Homefirst practice, a story that later morphed into a claim for actual data. Despite that, he never published. Most recently, Dr. Eisenstein has fallen for the quackery of Mark and David Geier, in which the powerful anti-sex hormone drug Lupron is being touted as a treatment for autism and been written up in the Chicago Tribune for the incompetence of physicians in his practice.
Harold Buttram is a particularly despicable anti-vaccine loon. A member of the wingnut organization Association of American Physicians and Scientists (which publishes JPANDS), Dr. Buttram is known for claiming that the shaken baby syndrome is in reality due to vaccine injury and not physical trauma. He has published articles in JPANDS and elswhere arguing just that. Indeed, what makes him most contemptible to me is that he lent his idea to the effort to get baby killer Alan Yurko off for his crime. Not surprisingly, Dr. Buttram also has his own page on Whale.to.
As for Professor Leo Rebello, ND, MD, PhD, DSc., F.F.Hom., DHS, MBA, I really don't know much about him other than that he really, really needs to realize that putting that many initials after his name does not impress, particularly given that a doctor of Naturopathy and what looks like a degree in homeopathy are not exactly the best way to build credibility as a science-based source. Indeed, his website is full of anti-vaccine pseudoscience, complete with this picture:
And this rant:
The lethal brew called the vaccinations made from disease cells and so many obnoxious ingredients do not build up immunity. Rather these vaccines are introduced to create more diseases. As I have said in my new doctor's oath, vaccinations are worse than rape. It is heinous and those who have made vaccination mandatory, like in USA and in the EU countries, are the mass murderers. Hitler pales into insignificance when it comes to genocide of small children due to vaccinations.
Vaccines are "worse than rape"? Vaccines are "genocide" that makes Hitler's crimes "pale into significance"? Nice to see the MVVIC has two such voices of reason as Drs. Buttram and Rebello, isn't it?
Not surprisingly, the cadre of physicians the antivaccine zealots behind the MVVIC have gotten to contribute articles and other material to the website are just as bad. For example, there's Joe Mercola dutifully repeating the now utterly discredited claim that mercury in vaccines causes autism and the same old misinformation about the HPV vaccine that I've blogged about before. Then there's surgeon and antivaccinationist Russel Blaylock, who is known for articles claiming that vaccines don't stop disease and that they cause autism, Gulf War Syndrome, Alzheimer's disease, and Parkinson's disease, chimes in with a piece from his usual oeuvre, this time engaging in a little fear mongering about the swine flu vaccine. Finally, our old friend, Dr. Rashid Buttar, the man who's been sanctioned by the North Carolina State Medical Board (which he called a "rabid dog") for treating cancer patients with ineffective remedies and children with autism with a wide variety of woo. including urine injections, makes an appearance with a number of videos.
Wow. That's some lineup, don't you think? It's a veritable "all-star" team of anti-vaccine pseudoscience.
If any of the creators of the MVVIC were to see this, no doubt they'd accuse me of doing nothing more than flinging ad hominems. They might have a point if it weren't for the fact that everything I've written goes right to the credibility of the source, specifically the NVIC. Besides, there doesn't appear to be anything on the MVVIC about which I haven't written science- and evidence-based analyses before, sometimes in nauseating detail. It's all pretty much the same sort of anti-vaccine propaganda that I've dealt with time and time again over the last four years. Even so, the MVVIC is such a--shall we say?--target-rich environment that I think I'll bookmark the page and keep an eye on the new material that will be showing up there in case I'm ever short of blogging material. I'll probably end up thinking of the MVVIC as a new NaturalNews.com, only about vaccines. In other words, it looks as though it will evolve into an endless supply of antivaccine pseudoscience and paranoia, a place where I can always go whenever I need blogging material and be assured of finding some bit of pseudoscience to skewer gleefully with science.
Heck, I may even register for the private "physician area." I'm guessing that's where the real craziness resides.
Medicine & Health
Comments
So medical quackery provides further proof that when you go out far enough at each end of the old left-right spectrum you meet round the back somewhere...
...and it's not a nice place!
Posted by: Paul Browne | August 13, 2009 10:01 AM
So happy to see you pick on your own too.
Posted by: DrWonderful | August 13, 2009 10:03 AM
So, anyone who disagrees with Orac is anti-vaccine/anti-science. As if David is the only voice of reason in the Medical/scientific community.
What an arrogant, conceited little prick you are, David. You are absolutely repulsive.
Posted by: The Hypocrisy! It Burns!! | August 13, 2009 10:30 AM
So, it's a new website, by old anti-vaccinationists. Seems more like they are circling the drain to me.
Posted by: Richard Eis | August 13, 2009 10:36 AM
re #3
I'll take strawman for 200 Alex. Bonus! Today's daily double...what is an ad hominem...
Posted by: Tezcatlipoca | August 13, 2009 10:39 AM
Given that the JABS forum in the UK has quietened down to the level of just reposting loony stuff from naturalnews and mercola, I ought to take a look at this... Hey - in some quarters, having your own page on Whale.To is considered a badge of honour!
http://www.whale.to/a/jabs1.html
John "Pigfucker" Scudamore finds me so annoying he gave me my own page. Maybe he fancies me. ;-)
Being briefly serious... I see a lot of new anti-vax sites and forums kick off - very few of them ever get more than a few posts before they descend into obscurity. John Stone and Clifford Miller's "ChildHealthSafety" blog for one, and various others.
All it takes is a few posts pointing out some facts and science, and either the contibutors shut up, or the site owners introduce moderation, and then realise that it's a harder job than they thought.
You have to have a grudging respect for the people who run sites like JABS, AOA etc, in that they're prepared to put the hard work in to filter and moderate their sites in the face of all the evidence - and still keep talking shit.
I wouldn't worry too much about this site - but if it offers coomments - keep making those comments.
Kind regards,
Becky
Posted by: Becky Fisseux | August 13, 2009 10:51 AM
Admittedly, I don't spend a lot of time at these sites. I tend to spend my time with my non-vaccine damaged autistic child. But, is it a usual theme to claim that vaccines don't prevent disease? That just seems ridiculous. Not that all of it isn't ridiculous but....
Posted by: Leanne | August 13, 2009 12:21 PM
For more anti-vax lunacy(of the H1N1 variety):see Adams' NaturalNews(8/13),where he makes "educated"(sic) guesses about best case/worst case scenarios for the upcoming flu season.Seriously,you can't make stuff like this up - although Adams *does*!
Posted by: Denice Walter | August 13, 2009 12:36 PM
Not many feedback options at the site... I looked it over and found no place to leave comments... I voted down all their videos though, and you should do the same (they all only have one or two votes so far).
It is a scary, polished web site... lots of folks with lab coats...
Posted by: Scott N | August 13, 2009 12:43 PM
"The lethal brew called the vaccinations made from disease cells and so many obnoxious ingredients do not build up immunity. Rather these vaccines are introduced to create more diseases. As I have said in my new doctor's oath, vaccinations are worse than rape. It is heinous and those who have made vaccination mandatory, like in USA and in the EU countries, are the mass murderers. Hitler pales into insignificance when it comes to genocide of small children due to vaccinations."
That truly makes me ill. It scares me, the lengths people will go to spread untruths.
Posted by: Ciara | August 13, 2009 1:23 PM
@Leanne
At least one person usually brings it up in a thread. The anti-vax camp likes to point to disease rates from the CDC that were "on a downward trend" before vaccines, yet they fail to mention that once vaccines were introduced, the rates dropped dramatically, far more than the "natural" trend they point to (which was only looking at a few years to begin with).
There are quite a few who go so far as to deny the germ theory of disease, saying that the bacteria and viruses don't actually do any harm.
Posted by: Todd W. | August 13, 2009 1:33 PM
Posted by: Science Mom | August 13, 2009 1:36 PM
Well, their favorite tactic is to point out that mortality from a given disease was on the way down before the vaccine was introduced. In many cases (measles, for example), the actual incidence of disease did not change until the vaccine was introduced, at which point it dropped like a stone.
When faced with those facts, they retreat to idiotic defenses like "well, the disease was still around, but doctors refused to recognize it because the patients had been vaccinated."
Posted by: Dave | August 13, 2009 1:57 PM
No, anyone who spouts anti-scientific fear mongering nonsense about vaccines like the sort of material that is found on the MVVIC website is anti-science and anti-vaccine.
Posted by: Orac | August 13, 2009 1:57 PM
Idiots at #2 and #3 in the comments? They are definatly getting quicker, I wonder if they have some kind of detection system in place to pick up on anyone who dares disagree with them...
Posted by: Ramel | August 13, 2009 2:09 PM
I just wrote about Dr. Tenpenny on my blog. She's an osteopath, a medical tradition started by a civil war surgeon who literally thought the best way to cure a kid of whooping cough was to wring his neck and shake him vigorously.
Plus, Dr. Tenpenny sells homeopathic remedies on her site. I pointed out how stupidly hypocritical it is that she attacks the flu vaccine for having avian protein (its incubated in an egg) when her homeopathic flu remedy is made from the liver of a decapitated duck and other disgusting ingredients (not that it matters, sine it's all diluted a million times).
Posted by: Ticktock | August 13, 2009 2:09 PM
It's nice that MVVIC shot its attempt at credibility in the head right off, with vaccines said to be worse than rape and making Hitler pale into insignificance. That's a whopping, toxin-laden dose of the crazy right there.
In case anyone is curious about Leo Rebello's Revised Oath for doctors, it's available in its complete glory here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/dlr28klr/petition.html
It includes the following:
"I shall not rape tiny tots with mercury laced innoculations or vaccinations, for they pollute the blood stream of small children leading to serious diseases like AIDS, Cancers, Autism, etc.;
I shall not prescribe lethal drugs, like anti-retrovirals, chemotherapy, or give ECT to my patients..."If I cannot treat a disease, I shall not say that AIDS, cancers, diabetes has no cure.
But will tell the patient to try other systems of medicine."
But especially, seek out crank magnetism - it's better than copper bracelets.
Unfortunately, Dr. Rebello violates his own preachings even before his oath is finished:
"I shall not frighten my patients with unnecessary comments, opinions or advice."
Orac said: "As for Professor Leo Rebello, ND, MD, PhD, DSc., F.F.Hom., DHS, MBA, I really don't know much about him other than that he really, really needs to realize that putting that many initials after his name does not impress"
Indeed, he doesn't boast of being an FAAP, like our antivax master of Pediatricks*, Dr. Jay Gordon. Can't get anywhere without an FAAP.
*This is the title of one section on Dr. Jay's website, which as a whole should be given the name Stupid Pediatricks.
Posted by: Dangerous Bacon | August 13, 2009 2:12 PM
I love how the article on the swine flu by Russell Blaylock ends with "There are much safer ways to protect oneself from this flu virus, such as higher doses of vitamin D3, selective immune enhancement using supplements, and a good diet."
Gee, I wonder whose website one is supposed to go to get their "immune enhancing supplements?" And yet Blaylock has the audacity to pull the pharma is evil and "in it for the money" shtick.
Posted by: Enkidu | August 13, 2009 2:30 PM
It's more insidious than that even -- they trot out the mortality charts, but don't actually call it that. They say something vague like "the measles rate" and hope that nobody notices.
And yes, a large portion of the anti-vax movement actually believes that vaccines have had no effect on the incidence of disease. It truly boggles the mind...
Posted by: James Sweet | August 13, 2009 3:19 PM
"Dr." Leo Rebello appears to be a self-promoting, imaginative crank with no education and an AIDS denialist. I'm so shocked [rolleyes].
Posted by: Science Mom | August 13, 2009 3:59 PM
how much longer will it be until there are enough unvaccinated kids that there will be a reasonable sample size to determine if the rates of autism changed for the unfortunate children? there has already been anecdotal evidence for resurgence of measles etc. what about autism?
(i feel icky just thinking about it.)
Posted by: rob | August 13, 2009 4:29 PM
Quacks and scammers all, they band together for self-protection and profit.
Posted by: DLC | August 13, 2009 4:57 PM
This fall we will see Swine Flu in the northern hemisphere, at full strength. Reports are that the young are suffering disproportionally, and are listed as priority recipients of the vaccine, when it is offered. I assume that the anti-vaxers will avoid this shot, and I suppose that their children will be suffering the flu more than others'.
I really hope that the rate of severe secondary infections is low for them.
Posted by: Matt M | August 13, 2009 4:59 PM
I can't imagine anyone trying to maintain a shred of respectability would go on Alex Jones' show. Now, THAT is a high level of crazy...
Posted by: kbm | August 13, 2009 5:55 PM
Some commenters above mentioned frequent themes of anti-vaxers today;here are a few quotes from a 1960 compilation of (earlier) articles in Prevention Magazine("The Prevention Method for Better Health" by J.I.Rodale & Staff,Rodale Press,1960):1."Vaccination is a present day evil:we believe that a time will come when we will be so healthy that vaccination will be unnecessary".2."There is pretty good general acceptance at present that smallpox results from unhygienic conditions",3."They cite cases of serious upsets suffered by vaccinated babies and even some deaths attributed to artificial immunization", and 4."Just as outward sanitation has rid us of some of the basic causes of diphtheria so internal cleanliness will surely take care of the rest of the problem." It's *deja wu* all over again!
Posted by: Denice Walter | August 13, 2009 6:44 PM
There are plenty of very good osteopathic doctors who don't go in for woo (though a larger percentage than MDs) so please don't paint them all with the same brush. I've never received anything but good evidence based treatment by the DO I see including every vaccination (small town, seen the same doctor since I was in diapers), if I didn't I'd find another doctor no matter how long I've been his patient.
Posted by: Noadi | August 13, 2009 8:25 PM
Ugh, Seed is still having problems with woo ads showing up. Out of the three google ads at the top of this page, one is for "5 Worst Vaccines Exposed" (www.douglassreport.com) and one is for a homeopathic web site (www.masharosen.com).
@The Hypocrisy! It Burns!!
No, what makes them anti-vaccine is:
* The claim that vaccines are "unnecessary" (Just from the title of their article Vaccines : Untested, Unsafe and Unnecessary)
* More claims that vaccines don't work.
* The repetition of the lie that the Amish neither vaccinate nor get autism (from Pretty Big Secret)
* The claim that vaccines are "worse than rape".
If that doesn't qualify them as anti-vaccine, what would?
Posted by: Matthew Cline | August 13, 2009 8:53 PM
Hi, vaccines are garbage being sold to you for a profit. There's a remedy for that: buy MY garbage which is of course being sold to you at a profit.
Talk about white hot irony.
I'll give the anti-vax nuts just a little bit of credit here: they've finally managed a web page that doesn't look as if were created by high school drop out with ten seconds of training. Too bad all the nice packaging can't disguise the ugly dreck inside the box.
Posted by: Stacy | August 14, 2009 11:14 AM
Re Post #26 and osteopathy...probably not news to most posters here, but I only recently discovered that there's "Osteopathy," and then there's "Osteopathic Medicine." The latter is more-or-less mainstream. The former is undilute woo. Cranial plate manipulation? Ewww!
Posted by: nomuse | August 14, 2009 11:36 AM
Why does it not surprise me that a website of "Doctors against vaccines" is just the same old characters we've seen before?
I've pointed this out before. When it comes to anti-vaxxers, it's the same people who keep showing up again and again. If the local media wants to get the mainstream view, they can call any of their local pediatricians. However, to get someone anti-vax, there's a pretty short list that they all use. The "anti-vax celebrity list," as it were (as opposed to the "celebrity anti-vax list" where sits Jenny McCarthy).
It makes you wonder. Even someone like Jay Gordon gets a lot more media attention through his connections with Jenny McCarthy and by being an anti-vax FAAP than he did by taking a healthy but safe position of breastfeeding advocacy.
As I said before, you get a lot bigger spotlight by being the radical maverick fighting the establishment.
Posted by: Pablo | August 14, 2009 1:18 PM
Dear zealots of the truth!!!!
What you guys say about:
- baxter sending 72 kilos of the avian flu virus instead of vaccine to several other countries in europe.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html
- Militar laboratory had 9.200 dangerous virus/bacterias not catalogued.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061703271.html
Of course, this you don't mention as you can't deny, even the manipulated media is showing it.
Posted by: Emerson Cardoso | August 14, 2009 2:39 PM
Emerson blethers:
"- baxter sending 72 kilos of the avian flu virus instead of vaccine to several other countries in europe."
Wrong. It was a culture of seasonal flu virus (H3N2) that was contaminated with bird flu virus (H1N1). This was detected and dealt with before any problems occurred. No vaccine involved. BTW, no weight is mentioned in the article.
"- Militar laboratory had 9.200 dangerous virus/bacterias not catalogued."
A minor proportion of samples stored were uncatalogued. This has been detected and is being dealt with before any major problems have occurred (apart from possibly the anthrax letters). We don't know yet how many of these samples are "dangerous". And this has exactly what to do with vaccines?
"Of course, this you don't mention as you can't deny, even the manipulated media is showing it."
Or, more likely, the fact that it is completely off the topic of discussion just might have something to do with it.
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | August 14, 2009 11:53 PM
Whoops!
H5N1 is the bird flu virus that contaminated Baxter's culture samples. My bad.
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | August 14, 2009 11:58 PM
@Stacy:
Hey, hey! That's all natural garbage, leading to all-natural profits, so off course it's better!!
Posted by: Matthew Cline | August 15, 2009 2:54 AM
As I have described so clearly in my book and on my CD. Only $19.95 each plus S&H. Buy them both and pay only once for the H.
Posted by: Pablo | August 15, 2009 11:24 AM
Check out this guy, he's into every conspiracy you can think of and, at least according to this, is offering $200,000 to anyone willing to drink vaccines:
http://spontaneouscreation.org/SC/$75,000VaccineOffer.htm
Posted by: carykoh | August 15, 2009 11:30 AM
Good ol' Jock Doubleday and his scam challenge. Read more about it here:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=322
And I will now repeat my comment the conditions that shows he has no intention of paying up:
To illustrate that Doubleday has no intention of even attempting allow anyone to take the challenge, read one of the links in LeftbrainRightbrain. That link is the contract which has all sorts of bizarre requirements:
http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/ContractPartA.htm (for some reason this link no longer occurs in the offer letter, using the Wayback machine I found it disappeared late 2007).
Begin quote
A. Psychiatric Evaluations
Participant agrees to undergo psychiatric evaluations ….
B. Mental Health Records
Participant agrees to submit, within 45 (forty-five) days of Participant’s signing of the Agreement, documents comprising a verifiable written history of all psychological counseling and therapy …
C. Email Examination
Participant agrees to take a written open-book examination (the “Basic Exam”) before becoming eligible to receive Part B of the Agreement….
D. Book Purchase
To assure Participant’s complete and thorough familiarity with and understanding of possible immediate and long-term physical and psychological hazards of chemicals commonly used as disinfectant, preservative, medium, or other additives in vaccines, as well as possible immediate and long-term behavioral changes that may occur from ingestion of or contact with these chemicals, Participant agrees to obtain at Participant’s cost the following recently published books (the “Books”):…
E. Written Examination
Participant agrees to take a written closed-book examination …
F. Good Health Certification
To certify that Participant is in normal health (”Good Health”) (so that, upon Participant’s possible sickness or death after the ingestion of the Mixture, Participant and/or agents of Participant cannot reasonably claim that sickness or death was due to causes other than the ingestion of the Mixture), Participant agrees to a general physical exam including a blood test (the “Physical Exam”), at Participant’s expense,…
Securing of Medical Professionals:
Participant agrees to secure three medical professionals …
Television Appearances:
Participant agrees to make at least five regional or national television appearances …
Participant Donations:
In the event that Participant signs Part A of the Agreement but fails to sign the Agreement-in-Full within 120 (one hundred and twenty) days of the signing of Part A of the Agreement, Participant agrees to donate by check the amount of $5,000.00 (five thousand U.S. dollars),…
End quote
Posted by: HCN | August 15, 2009 12:06 PM
I popped over to see the Ilena Rosenthal website out of curiosity and learned that their 'Breast Implant Survivors Day' is 1 April. Oh the irony.
My wife has Lupus, and has had Rheumatoid Arthritis since about age 11. This Breast Implant = Connective Tissue diseases idea is common knowledge now. On many occasions people have assumed that she must have had implants in order to have Lupus. Some years ago I laughed in the face of one of her friends who I thought was making a joke. Her (nonexistent) implants have since become a running gag between us. Just one of the bad jokes to try to ease the effort of swallowing handfuls of pills everyday.
Posted by: Mark Chandler | August 15, 2009 8:49 PM
So it is possible to get rheumatoid arthrits without having implants? I didn't think that was possible?
(kidding)
It just reminds me of those sad folks on mothering.com, for example, who weren't aware that there were non-vaccinated kids with autism.
Hmmm, I wonder how they would ever get that idea?
Posted by: Pablo | August 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To follow up my own comment, I should mention that, then again, these are the same folks who think that vaccination-proponents insist that vaccines are "totally safe" or some such nonsense. It's a black and white world...
Apparently, not having done vaccinations themselves, they haven't gotten the list of possible complications that can occur (which, not surprisingly, does not list autism), along with their frequencies (what? doctors admit that vaccines can cause problems?). It's just so much easier to create the strawman.
Posted by: Pablo | August 16, 2009 11:44 AM
Yeah I agree. It seems that the world now has two dimensions. The one who believes and support vaccines and the other side who don't. More and more issues arise that really makes us all confused about which side we should believe in. I think we all need to know the truth about vaccination.
Posted by: Nicole | August 17, 2009 3:11 AM
What, they thought Lupus didn't exist until there were breast implants? *shakes head*
Posted by: Matthew Cline | August 17, 2009 8:33 AM
Reminds me of something that happened right as the whole implants scare was taking off. My parents, sister, and I were watching the news and there was a story which was basically "X% of women with implants report symptoms like these." My sister (a professional cellist with minimal science background, but knows a good bit about lupus because she has it) immediately noticed, "wait a second, X% is pretty close to the number of women estimated to have undiagnosed lupus - and those are lupus symptoms!"
So yeah, a complete laywoman was able to spot the problem immediately from a non-detailed news report.
Posted by: Scott | August 17, 2009 9:05 AM
It's not a matter of "belief" or "believing" in vaccinations. It's a matter of what science supports (the safety and efficacy of vaccination for many diseases) and pseudoscientific paranoid conspiracy mongering, namely the anti-vaccine movement, as in groups like the NVIC, which does anything but "tell the truth" about vaccinations. In fact, the anti-vaccine movement spreads misinformation and lies about vaccines.
Posted by: Orac | August 17, 2009 10:56 AM
I guess I don't know what it means to "believe vaccines"? What is there to believe? Vaccinations prevent disease. This is empirically true, and as Orac notes, it's not a matter of "belief."
And no, it is not a "two dimensional world" for everyone. Orac mentions the "safety ... of vaccinations," but he is using it in the proper sense. "Safe" does NOT mean "never causes any harm in any way." With that restriction, nothing is "safe" as anything can be a danger (I liken it to the SNL skit where Dan Akroyd plays the unscrupulous toys to kids, like "Bag of Glass" and "Johnny Switchblade Cammando Punk"; Jane Curtain says, "Isn't this dangerous?" and he responds that everything is dangerous to a degree and demonstrates with a soft styrofoam ball which he shoves in his mouth and chokes on it).
However, when scientists say vaccines are safe, they aren't talking about never causing any harm. That's a black and white view, and they don't have that. Moreover, the doctor gives you a list of the potential problems associated with vaccines, and an indication of the frequency with which they occur. It's anything but a two dimensional view.
So in the end, they have to weigh the benefits and costs of using the vaccines. The CDC, for example, panels some of the top doctors in the field each year to assess the status (efficacy and safety) of vaccinations. They are not basing it on a black and white view. They see the gray very clearly.
No, it is the anti-vaxxers who project the "totally safe in every way" false dichotomy onto vaccine advocates and think that you can't get autism if you aren't vaccinated.
Posted by: Pablo | August 17, 2009 11:15 AM
Just drink the Big Pharma Kool-Aid..... Medical Voices is legit....
Posted by: greta gisen | September 4, 2009 9:52 AM
Just drink the Big Pharma Kool-Aid..... Medical Voices is legit....
An informative, substantive reply. Thank you greta gisen for rebutting all the concerns raised above with a simple allusion to Evil Big Pharma! You win the internet!
Posted by: Scientizzle | September 4, 2009 10:15 AM