Respectful Insolence

It’s about time…

Woo-hoo!

I just found out late yesterday that finally–finally–our cancer center has enough H1N1 vaccine to start vaccinating its employees involved in patient care. I thought the vaccine would never get here in sufficient quantity. Later this morning I’ll be right there, getting mine.

You know, I think I’ll ask the nurse for extra thimerosal. After all, I got vaccinated for seasonal flu about a month and a half ago, and I’m not autistic yet. Rather disappointing, actually. Maybe another good shot of killed influenza, formaldehyde, mercury, and all sorts of other “toxins” will fix that.

Damn. I wish that the H1N1 vaccine in the U.S. used a squalene-containing adjuvant.

Comments

  1. #1 nico
    November 10, 2009

    I got my h1n1 last week and in canada, yep, it’s got all the goodness of thimerosal! I think ours even have delicious adjuvants too.

    Actually, it just feels very good to know I won’t get sick, and that I won’t spread the flu to my grandma or to a friend’s newborn babe, since they can’t get vaccinated yet.

    No major side effects. One doozy of a sore arm for a day or so. Convinced my mom to get it after I reassured her some of the stuff used to produce vaccines, they let us handle in first and second year biology and biochemistry classes.

  2. #2 The Science Pundit
    November 10, 2009

    I got my seasonal flu vaccine, but swine flu is still unavailable here. :-(

  3. #3 chemgeek
    November 10, 2009

    OH NOES!!!! Too many vaccines too fast. Hasn’t Dr. Jenny taught you anything?

  4. #4 Dan the Man
    November 10, 2009

    I got mine a few weeks ago (I live in Australia) and no major side affects. Unfortunately, they wouldn’t give it to my 2 year old because it isn’t approved for children under the age of 10 because of the Thimerosal content. We have to wait a few months for the Thimerosal free childrens version to be released. It is absolutley ridiculous.

  5. #5 DLC
    November 10, 2009

    Jim Carey’s going the rounds of the chat shows, ostensibly stumping for his new movie, but of course getting in free shots for Generation Rescue. Is it me, or does it seem to you folks that there’s about 5 woo-friendly quack fans for each rational skeptical celebrity ?

  6. #6 DLC
    November 10, 2009

    Jim Carey’s going the rounds of the chat shows, ostensibly stumping for his new movie, but of course getting in free shots for Generation Rescue. Is it me, or does it seem to you folks that there’s about 5 woo-friendly quack fans for each rational skeptical celebrity ?

  7. #7 tresmal
    November 10, 2009

    If you get dystonia you know who to call right? :P

  8. #8 davenoon
    November 10, 2009

    Truth be told, I just want thimerosal so I can have an excuse to cleanse myself with urine injections. Is that so wrong?

  9. #9 Cath the Canberra Cook
    November 10, 2009

    Would you educated medical type folks recommend getting it if you’re in the Southern hemisphere? Flu season is over, and it’s been topping at 25-35 degrees C for the last week. And I just really really wanna be autistic, y’know. The cholera and typhoid and DPT and polio booster and Hep shots I’ve had in the last couple of years haven’t done it for me yet, but I live in hope. :)

  10. #10 PeterD
    November 10, 2009

    Before I took my 5-year-old daughter to the vaccination center, I explained to her the health benefits of vaccines, how vaccines induce the body to make antibodies which kill the germs that can make us sick, and, finally, that this vaccine that she is about to receive is given by a small needle that hurts a teeny-weeny bit.

    Needless to say, her vaccination was a piece a cake. And she knows: antibodies good, germs bad. I dare say, she’s only 5 and she’s smarter than Bill Maher!

    Sad Note: Not too many people at the vaccination center.

  11. #11 Clay
    November 10, 2009

    I think that for the past 16 years, I’ve gotten free flu shots from the Home Care agency I worked for, all of them with thimerosal, of course. Last Friday, I got my regular flu shot from the Vet’s Clinic. The H1N1 shots hadn’t come in yet, but I’ll probably get it next month at my regular checkup. Sadly, I’ve never detected any increase in my autisticity. ;-)

  12. #12 OurSally
    November 10, 2009

    I got my flu shot in autumn, as I do every year. In Germany swine flu shots are reserved for medical personnel, the police and so on, and then they do the high risk groups.

    I am in this group, unfortunately, so I am on the list and they will call me as soon as the next batch is delivered.

    Most people I know were totally against getting vaccinated, because the press has done a good job of spreading scare stories. But now the flu is getting closer they are all changing their minds.

  13. #13 Gwen
    November 10, 2009

    Orac, I grew up in the military of the mid 1950s to late 1960s. We spent most of our time outside of the USA. Back in those olden days, we had to have our vaccinations repeated every 6 months to be sure we were covered. We received: Polio, Smallpox, Typhus, Typhoid, DPT, and Cholera, although it seemed like we were getting more. The vaccinations had much more thymerisol and were not nearly as purified. I don’t remember any of my playmates being diagnosed with autism, but I do remember siblings and friends becoming very ill from the measles and mumps.

  14. #14 flim flam
    November 10, 2009

    getting mine this week. Wish i could get the shot for the junior flim flams too, particularly my boy the baby hulk who always ends up getting sick in the winter but as dan the man says – no H1N1 for under 10′s in oz yet, is this a consequence of the wackaloons anti vax crusade i wonder?. Yet another reason to loathe and detest their ignorant lunacy.

  15. #15 brian
    November 10, 2009

    You never cease to amaze me Orac…you should take up stand up comedy.
    Just to fill you in, Thimerosal is a toxic substance, which i wouldnt add to your tea or coffee…I can imagine you slipping a little thimerosal intro your patients pills, to put that extra jiggle into their step!

    Autism,the epidemic is entirely in children,,,am i right? Not adults. To say as adults youd get autism from a vaccinme is as silly as saying the vaccine is free from any harm:

    ‘Four days later, on October 20, the baby died. “I never thought that it was due to the vaccine,” said the father. “It was only after I reached Thimphu that the possibility of the vaccine’s side effect was made.”

    She is the third baby, all less than two months old, to die in a week’s time after receiving the vaccine. The same day, another two-month old baby from Gelephu was also admitted in Thimphu. The baby’s condition is improving, say doctors.’
    http://www.kuenselonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13837

    So while babies are dying or going autistic, lets let Orac woo woo!

  16. #16 brian
    November 10, 2009

    ‘th be told, I just want thimerosal so I can have an excuse to cleanse myself with urine injections. Is that so wrong?’

    davenoon..why dont you and Orac put your thimerosal where your mouth is, and swallow it,..if its so safe….

    Or maybe yours is special, like the case in germany:

    ‘German Outrage: Politicians to receive Different Swine Flu Vaccine …
    Tuesday, 20 October 2009
    Damage control is the name of the game in Berlin on Monday as politicians rush to deny that they are receiving a better, safer swine flu vaccine than ordinary Germans. The first of 50 million doses arrived in Germany on Monday.

    One might think that the arrival in Germany of the first of 50 million doses of swine flu vaccine on Monday might be cause for celebration. But with news breaking over the weekend that top government officials in Berlin will be injected with an alternative vaccine — one widely seen as safer — a debate about an alleged two-class medical system has erupted.’


    http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/8606/54/

    HMMMMM…widely seen as…safer??!!But ARENT ALL vaccines perfectly safe?

  17. #17 Anton P. Nym
    November 10, 2009

    Brian, I do hope you don’t let children ride in cars or take baths. Or eat fast food, for that matter. Because all of those are known to have caused far more “adverse effects” in children than vaccines.

    Think of the children! *gasp!* *wring hands*

    — Steve

  18. #18 mk
    November 10, 2009

    Brian…

    1) Just because B follows A that does not mean A caused B.
    2) People like you think all vaccines are harmful. You advocate for people to die.
    3) You’re a moron.

  19. #19 Robin Levett
    November 10, 2009

    @mk #18:

    Brian…

    3) You’re an amoral, vicious moron who would prefer allowing children to die of pretty nasty diseases to giving up his self-delusions.

    Fixed it for you.

  20. #20 Cath the Canberra Cook
    November 10, 2009

    There are, of course, plenty of autistic adults. It is not some new thing that only arrived with the new vaccines. Temple Grandin is an inspirational example (google her if you aren’t familiar already). Also that weird but very smart guy who was in my maths class at uni 30 years ago, before anyone ever had a measles or chickenpox vaccine.

    Autism isn’t a sentence of DOOOOM!, nor is it a reason to torture children with bogus “cures” that are much more medically nasty than vaccines. Chelation, enemas, chemical castration, massive supplement doses – it’s horrible the things the antivaccers are doing to vulnerable children. Autistic kids need proper therapy, not rejection as damaged goods and medical torture.

  21. #21 george.w
    November 10, 2009

    You know, I think I’ll ask the nurse for extra thimerosal.

    Huh – I bet you’re one of those people who holds up the line while the barista makes you a double-shot half-caff extra-foam latte, aren’t you? Some people are never satisfied.

    Mmmmm… thimerosal… /Simpson drooling

  22. #22 Scientizzle
    November 10, 2009

    Can I just say that I think it’s great that this thread got 14 comments in before the inevitable nuttery. It made me smile…

  23. #23 fusilier
    November 10, 2009

    C’mon Orac, make yer own dang squalene just like everbody else does!

    grump, grump, grump
    darn kids

    fusilier
    James 2:24

  24. #24 Dangerous Bacon
    November 10, 2009

    I had a long and somewhat painful visit to the dentist yesterday. Afterwards I went in for my H1N1 flu shot, and today…

    The PAIN is GONE.

    You scoffers will say that correlation doesn’t equal causation, but I know better. The H1N1 vaccine cured my tooth pain!

    I think it was the antifreeze. Or maybe the monkey pus.

    Look for my incredible true story on Oprah.

  25. #25 D
    November 10, 2009

    Orac,
    Out of curiosity, what percentage of employees at your hospital who can get the vaccine will? Seems that I have heard (actually a story on NPR several weeks ago)that hospital staff have a fairly low compliance rate for vaccinations.

    The quote is “But the CDC’s Sheedy says that doctors and nurses have always been tough sells when it comes to the flu. Vaccination rates for the seasonal flu have never topped 50 percent for health professionals — and usually hover barely above 40 percent.”

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113873021

    I found this quote, if true, particularly disturbing. If MDs and nurses (who should be in the “know”) aren’t getting the shot why should anyone else.

    As a side note I know several PhDs who do basic research on developing new vaccines who also refuse to get a yearly flu shot.

    On a side side note I get the flu vaccine every year.

  26. #26 Joseph
    November 10, 2009

    Autism,the epidemic is entirely in children,,,am i right? Not adults.

    @brian: No, you’re definitely not right. Autism is found in adults about as often as it is found in children. Whenever they look for autism in different groups of adults, they always find it. There’s already a near-whole population prevalence study of autism in adults with a 1% result. I could even argue there’s another adult prevalence study prior to this one that finds a prevalence of 1.2%.

  27. #27 EM Tech
    November 10, 2009

    We finally have the H1N1 vax here in Austin, TX. Supplies have been awful and reserved for pregnant women only. Now they have enough for limited 6mo- 23 month kiddies, so I’ve been stalking my pediatrician for the past week. I got him an appt for Thurs to get it!

  28. #28 Scup
    November 10, 2009

    Just got mine yesterday. Yay science!

  29. #29 J. J. Ramsey
    November 10, 2009

    PeterD: “Not too many people at the vaccination center.”

    I’m not that surprised. I know that where I am, the H1N1 vaccine is only being given to people in certain risk groups, such as pregnant women, young kids, and medical personnel, because there’s only so much of it available. :(

  30. #30 Kemist
    November 10, 2009

    davenoon..why dont you and Orac put your thimerosal where your mouth is, and swallow it,..if its so safe….

    Eaten tuna recently ?

  31. #31 speedwell
    November 10, 2009

    Here in Houston I’m being told the vaccine is available for pregnant women and young children ONLY. I’m in two OTHER high-risk groups. I’m basically just trying to work from home as much as possible. Not this morning though :(

  32. #32 Kemist
    November 10, 2009

    In Canada, because we’re using the adjuvant, we’ve managed to vaccinate healthcare workers, pregnant women and are now working our way through the chronically sick. We’ll have enough for everybody who wants it – but it may be too late to avoid the infection peek of the second wave.

    We don’t have that many dead but our hospitals are becoming quite taxed with the hospitalized cases, especially in ICUs.

    The vaccine for the whole of Canada is made in my hometown by GSK. I know people who work there; health science is a small community here.

  33. #33 Scott
    November 10, 2009

    Sometimes I wish I WAS in a high-risk group. I wasn’t even able to get the seasonal shot this year due to an (apparently local) shortage.

  34. #34 James Sweet
    November 10, 2009

    I just got my first flu shot ever this morning. I’d never gotten one before because, frankly, I plain forgot to show up when they were doing them at my employer. However, this year, with an 8-month-old in the house, I was somewhat more motivated to follow through on it :)

  35. #35 Danimal
    November 10, 2009

    You know, I’ve been mainlining thimerosal on a daily basis for the last 10 years, since I quit my heroin/crack/toxicwhatever/coffee enema habit. As I built up tolerance I started injecting it right into my aorta, just for the rush.

    Then 2 weeks ago I got the seasonal flu vaccine. Wouldn’t you know it, within minutes I was autistic. Damn! How ironic is that?

  36. #36 Bugg
    November 10, 2009

    I waited an hour to get mine last week, slight fever afterward but nothing a long nap couldn’t take care of. I was amazed at the number of people who told me I was a gov’t guinea pig for an untested brain controlling injection (paraphrased). The heartening thing about the experience was 10 minutes before the vaccination clinic actually opened, there were enough people in line to administer all the available doses.

  37. #37 MikeMa
    November 10, 2009

    Got both seasonal and H1N1. No problems from either. Stories locally of H1N1 lines stretching down the block. I guess idiots like brian aren’t as scary as daily news stories of H1N1 deaths in the area. Toxins indeed.

  38. #38 Kowalski
    November 10, 2009

    @ Cath the Canberra Cook
    “Autistic kids need proper therapy, not rejection as damaged goods and medical torture.”
    That’s a rather bold claim you’re making there. Why do you think you know what autistic kids need?
    There are actually plenty of autistic adults (like myself) who’ve never had any therapy or treatment, ever.

  39. #39 Militant Agnostic
    November 10, 2009

    Got the seasonal a couple of weeks ago with my physical. Although I could weasel into a high risk group With my mild asthma, I am going to wait until I get the H1N1 from my doctor. I figure it is probably better to wait till then rather than standing in a line up of unvaccinated people for 3 hours.

    Here the biggest controversy regarding the H1N1 vaccine concerns the Calgary Flames hockey team and their families getting the H1N1 shot a couple of days before the clinics had to shut down temporarily due to running out – long before they had gotten though even half of the at risk groups.

  40. #40 Natalie
    November 10, 2009

    No H1N1 shot for me, since I’m not special (not young or old enough, not in a critical field, and not pregnant). But I got my regular flu shot the other day. Plus I had tons of amalgam fillings as a child, and I get at least one drilled out every years to add a new composite filling. (I have good oral hygiene – just really crappy teeth that hate me.)

    No autism yet… maybe I should get an MMR booster. That’ll do it.

  41. #41 Kemist
    November 10, 2009

    in the “know”) aren’t getting the shot why should anyone else.

    As a side note I know several PhDs who do basic research on developing new vaccines who also refuse to get a yearly flu shot.

    The reason for this is rarely for fear of the vaccine. They just don’t see the use for it. Especially researchers, who are normally not in contact with patients, and see no use in taking a dose which would be more useful to somebody else.

    The supply of seasonal vaccine is not sufficient to vaccinate everyone, and normally it’s reserved for the old and chronically sick, their close family and medical personnel.

    However, medical personnel not getting vaccinated is quite inexcusable for me, especially those whose patients are in at risk groups. The reaction of people to flu death toll of the chronically ill infuriates me : “They would have died anyway”. That sounds just fine and dandy until your 87-years-old grandmother or your child with leukemia die because they were infected by an idiotic nurse or MD who refuses to take a one-in-a-million risk to avoid the premature death of the people he or she is supposed to take care of.

    The problem is that we’re not used to deal with deadly infections on a personnal level. Awareness of how infections are tramsmitted and responsability for our own behavior in spreading them is not very implanted in our society. But eventually we’ll need to focus on it, just as we’ve got to condemn the misuse of antibiotics. It’s a matter of survival.

  42. #42 Diane
    November 10, 2009

    H1N1 vaccine has been pretty scarce in my neck of the woods. Heard from a random woman this weekend that she had vaxxed her kids at a public health clinic over an hour away. Took the chance yesterday morning and finally, finally (only a 30 minute wait after that long drive) my asthmatic child has gotten the shot.

  43. #43 KariA
    November 10, 2009

    I got the H1N1 last Friday, not in a risk group, but a lefover after working hours from a doctor i know (the multiple doses glasses have to be administered within 24 hs of opening, or thrown out as I gathered). Still no autism. And here in Norway we have the one with BOTH thimerosal AND adjuvants. My shoulder muscle was sore for two three days, but still no problem using it for exercise or other stuff.

    But reg. the point from the Aussies here, why aren’t your Gvmt recommending this shot for kids under 10? Are they too drinking some of the kool aid? The recommendations over here were first not for kids under 3 years of age, but then changed to under six months of age, because of the spread of the disease…

  44. #44 Tristanm
    November 10, 2009

    That reminds me, I need to get the H1N1 vaccine. My college keeps saying that they’ll have some next week, but when next week comes they still don’t have it. Time venture off campus to find the vaccine elsewhere?

  45. #45 Calli Arcale
    November 10, 2009

    brian:

    davenoon..why dont you and Orac put your thimerosal where your mouth is, and swallow it,..if its so safe….

    Actually, I used to swallow thimerosal regularly. It was an ingredient in the saline solution I used for my contacts. Dribble it in your eyes, and it’s gonna go down your throat eventually. (Eyes drain to nose, nose drains to throat, throat drains to stomach.) There was also thimerosal in the saline that I used to prepare my nebulizer doses, so I was inhaling it too. Eventually, as the fearmongering created a market for thimerosal-free saline,the manufacturers started replacing it with other products.

    Which posed a bit of a problem for my mother. Thimerosal never bothered her, but she’s allergic to some of the newer preservatives used in eyedrops. So she has to get preservative-free eyedrops, which are expensive, and sold in these single-use plastic thingies that are a real pain to crack open.

  46. #46 techskeptic
    November 10, 2009

    Its strange I had almost the oppostite experience from members of the mercury militia

    http://techskeptic.blogspot.com/2009/11/we-vaccinated-our-daughter-and-have.html

  47. #47 Ariel
    November 10, 2009

    Got my shot a few weeks ago. I work in health promotion, so we counted as health care workers. Now of course we actually might be at higher risk, as they are pulling us out of our offices to work at the H1N1 vaccine clinics. There have been crazy lineups here. Some people waited 8 hours, and then didn’t even get the shot because they ran out.

  48. #48 Dan Weber
    November 10, 2009

    Could we generate more seasonal flu vaccine if we knew that there would be a consistent demand for it? I was under the impression that we only make a little more than predicted demand, but I could be in error on that.

  49. #49 Travis
    November 10, 2009

    I am a bit surprised you are only getting the H1N1 vaccine now. I work at a hospital here and was able to get it last week. And as others have mentioned this was the adjuvant containing one, though they had a version without that for pregnant women if they wanted it.

  50. #50 DLC
    November 10, 2009

    (sorry for the double-posting. my browser had a nervous breakdown)

    I already had the damn flu, thanks.
    Sucks. I went out to pick up dinner at a local deli, next day I started having symptoms at around 7 am. was completely bedridden by noon. I’m over it but it was damn uncomfortable while I had it.

  51. #51 Gus Snarp
    November 10, 2009

    My son gets his first dose of H1N1 vaccine today too.

  52. #52 Vicki
    November 10, 2009

    New York City is running flu shot clinics this weekend. Last weekend was schoolchildren only, but this weekend they’re offering the shots for anyone in a risk group: pregnant women, people under age 24, or with diseases that put them at high risk. Just tell the nurses you need it. (I don’t know locations offhand, try http://www.nyc.gov or call 311, as for all non-emergency city stuff.)

  53. #53 Emma
    November 10, 2009

    Pregnant in upstate New York, and still waiting for H1N1 vaccine to become available….*sigh*. Oh well, at least I got my season flu shot a month ago.

  54. #54 Berner
    November 10, 2009

    I got mine today. My arm hurts now…

  55. #55 Dangerous Bacon
    November 10, 2009

    Dan Weber: “Could we generate more seasonal flu vaccine if we knew that there would be a consistent demand for it?”

    We’d be able to produce a lot more vaccine in response to a significant threat like H1N1, if we had more companies manufacturing vaccine in the U.S, instead of having to depend on foreign sources like Australia, where promised H1N1 vaccine exports were retained for use in that country. We’d have more U.S. firms in the vaccine business if it wasn’t for factors like potential lawsuits and anti-vaccine fearmongering.

    Interesting that a new USA Today/Gallup poll finds that 58% of respondents place moderate to great blame on the government for H1N1 vaccine shortages, and 62% blame drug companies. No word on how many blame antivaxers, or if pollsters even thought to ask that question.

    By the way, I went to Subway for lunch and couldn’t resist getting a tunafish sub in honor of brian. I’d barely started eating it before I felt perkier and more alert.

  56. #56 Natalie
    November 10, 2009

    In one of the recent epicly long threads, I believe several people mentioned that the US not using adjuvants for flu vaccine is also a factor. Using adjuvants requires less virus to produce the same number of vaccines, and thus the stocks of cultured virus stretch farther.

  57. #57 Tanya
    November 10, 2009

    Just got mine today (a pleasant surprise – I visited my family doc to renew a Rx, and he mentioned they had H1N1 vaccine). I’m in Toronto, where vaccine shortages (and the unfortunate recent deaths of children from flu) have led to long lines at vaccine clinics, which are still only for high-risk people.

    Of course, in Ontario, we aren’t supposed to get the seasonal flu shot until we’ve had H1N1 vaccine … *sigh*

  58. #58 Mandrake
    November 10, 2009

    I was going to mention thimerosal in contact lens saline solution, too, but Calli beat me to it. I did switch to preservative-free solution after a while because the thimerosal did seem to irritate my eyes a bit, but I’m sure I ingested plenty before then. Between that, all the vaccines I’ve had, including annual flu shots for the past five years or so, and I’ve somehow managed to avoid any serious side effevzdkzxzejal….

    *thud*

  59. #59 Corina Becker
    November 10, 2009

    Tomorrow, November 11, will mark two weeks since I got my H1N1 flu shot, adjuvanted, with thimerosal, manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline. (I even have the vaccine lot number too :D)

    Two weeks. Still not more autistic.

    I mean, I’m an autistic adult. By getting a vaccine with thimerosal, wouldn’t it mean that I’ll become MORE autistic?

    oh, wait wait wait. According to the accounts, autism develops MONTHS after vaccines. Well, dang, I guess I better not call off the “Happy More Autistic” party quite yet.

  60. #60 AmandaL
    November 10, 2009

    Just took my son in yesterday, and then they told me they even had enough for me! Hurrah! Except… some idiot came down the steps at the county facility and said, “do you know what you’re doing? There’s MERCURY in there and you’re going to poison your child!” I am not good at pithy confrontations, but I do feel pretty good about shouting him out of the building, with a toddler in my arms. Only to make it through the long line and then have the nurse say, “how old is your child? TWO? we have no more shots!” jeebus. Then I come to find out she means she has no more shots that don’t have thimerosal. It surprised her exceedingly that I told her that was not a problem and marched right in to get our shots. Too bad The Nut will need another one in a month’s time. This is because of the no-adjuvants, bit, isn’t it” Curse it!

  61. #61 AmandaL
    November 10, 2009

    Emma, call your county clinic. I’m in Saratoga County and they have it.

  62. #62 LibraryGuy
    November 10, 2009

    Don’t call off the party Corina, just change it to a “Danged if I Didn’t Develop Dystonia” party. Just remember to include chelation therapy to cure yourself. I understand chocolate cake is perfect for that.
    Never got the flu shots before. I just figured (well, rationalized, anyway) that I’d get sick, take some days off, bitch and moan afterwards, and my immune system would get a workout.
    But this year, as an example to all my woo-believing co-workers, I got one of the limited number of regular shots. Arm didn’t hurt, no side effects. Well, actually, now that I have more mercury in me than a school of tuna, I do seem to do my pool laps faster…
    No h1n1 vaccine around, darn it. But when it shows up, I’m a gettin’ it!

    Oh, and having been a child in the 60′s, I’ve had mumps, chicken pox, and about 20 different kinds of measles (it seems like). That’s why my daughter is vaccinated against them all.

  63. #63 Todd W.
    November 10, 2009

    @LibraryGuy

    Just remember to include chelation therapy to cure yourself. I understand chocolate cake is perfect for that.

    I would’ve suggested rhubarb pie. Rhubarb acts as a chelator, it’s high in fiber, tastes good and it’s all natural! Granted, excessive dosing can lead to unsavory consequences.

  64. #64 Dan the Man
    November 10, 2009

    AmandaL – your lucky you got the vax for your son. I’m in Australia and they are very strict here and wouldn’t give the vax to my 2 year old because of the mercury content. Now I have to wait ages (months) for the childrens mercury free vax to come out. Our Goverment is so fucking paranoid about getting their asses sued. I think they’ve fallen hook, line and sinker for the mercury = autism myth. You Americans are so lucky your kids can get the vax now. I am shit scared that my kid will get swine flu.

  65. #65 Cath the Canberra Cook
    November 10, 2009

    Kowalski, I didn’t make an exact claim about what autistic kids need. “Proper therapy” is a loose term meaning whatever therapy is appropriate to their specific case. I meant it in contrast to the torture that the anti-vacc nuts are out there inflicting on these kids. Which I unequivocally condemn.

    It’s my understanding that there are genuinely helpful therapies for speech, physical coordination and behaviour issues. And since autism is a spectrum disorder, not all kids need exactly the same kind of help. My information comes from reading popular materials, such as Orac’s blog, Temple Grandin’s book, and the neurodiversity blog at http://www.neurodiversity.com

  66. #66 Joseph
    November 10, 2009

    It’s my understanding that there are genuinely helpful therapies for speech, physical coordination and behaviour issues. And since autism is a spectrum disorder, not all kids need exactly the same kind of help. My information comes from reading popular materials, such as Orac’s blog, Temple Grandin’s book, and the neurodiversity blog at http://www.neurodiversity.com

    Speech and OT, sure. Autism-specific therapies are notoriously lacking in the quality of their evidence base, despite what mainstream authorities say. There are few if any randomized trials, and fewer even with blinded assessments and such. The better the quality of the study, the less impressive the results.

  67. #67 BoxNDox
    November 10, 2009

    Had my H1N1 shot this morning. I didn’t even feel it and my arm isn’t sore.

    Figuring the more the merrier, I then went out for sushi for lunch.

  68. #68 mythusmage
    November 10, 2009

    Had the seasonal flu shot, only adverse event is bruising in the area of the injection. Since 55 is young in the 21st century, no H1N1 shot.

    Now in my case it took people about 53 years to notice I’m autistic (Aspergers), so I consider it far more likely that we’re seeing more people being properly diagnosed instead of suddenly developing the condition. I do believe that differences in brain structure have been found in autists, differences that could only occur during fetal development.

    But if you do develop autism because of your flu shot be aware that your now sparkling uniqueness is apt to get you barred from movie theaters, planetariums, and other places where profound darkness is required for the best experience. On the other hand, going to the bathroom in the middle of the night will be a lot easier.

  69. #69 LH
    November 10, 2009

    BoxNDox,

    You and I may be long-lost internet twins. I had a delightful nasal H1N1 vaccine this morning, and decided this evening to have a chaser of both spicy tuna AND salmon sushi rolls. I did have them with brown rice to chelate all the MERCURY! TOXINS!11!1!

    What I did learn this morning is that I’d never be a good cocaine addict. I wasn’t very good at snorting that tasty thimerosal.

  70. #70 gaiainc
    November 10, 2009

    My clinic had a flu clinic today. 27+ people including kids got their seasonal flu and H1N1 shots. Woo hoo!

    For reasons that are completely unknown, there is only one person in the clinic who can actually order the H1N1 flu vaccine and put that order into our EMR. Why? I have no fricking ass clue, but it’s making my MA annoyed. It’s also making me annoyed because I need this MA. She runs our labs and vaccines and if we overwork her anymore, she may quit. If she quits, my clinic is screwed six ways ’til Sunday.

    I hate my EMR.

  71. #71 jj
    November 10, 2009

    UGH, I was reading the local free-weekly newspaper (Santa Cruz GoodTimes) and they had a survey of 4 people, and if they were going to get the vaccine, and why\not. Needless to say, 3 of 4 were a resounding “No” with reasoning that “H1N1 doesn’t exists” “Having love in your heart makes you immune to germs”(WTF!?) and my favorite “I don’t get shots”. Luckily the one rational mind in the group had a good answer “I’m pregnant, and H1N1 is very dangerous for pregnant woman and infants” Sometimes I hate this overly-woo-friendly town…
    http://www.goodtimessantacruz.com/santa-cruz-local-opinion/289-are-you-getting-the-h1n1-vaccine-why-or-why-not.html

  72. #72 rb
    November 10, 2009

    I still can’t get the shots, we have some local vaccine, but I don’t fall in high risk group and we don’t have enough for everyone. :(

  73. #73 kula
    November 10, 2009

    Our local health department is holding clinics in our schools. Some parents are keeping their children home on the day the clinic is held in their child’s school. I’m not sure what they think will happen. I would prefer they keep their unvaccinated children away all the time.

    One of my kids got H1N1 vaccine yesterday, the other one is getting it tomorrow. Both have exchanged comments with their peers who are spouting antivaccine nonsense. There is probably some not-so-repsectful insolence involved. Especially from the 12th grader who is a champion debater and smart boy.

  74. #74 Enkidu
    November 10, 2009

    Got my H1N1 vax (FluMist version) via my workplace 2 weeks ago.

    Had a Dickens of a time tracking down a vaccine for my daughter, though. I’ve been calling the pedi every week, and finally last week they told me they weren’t getting the vaccine at all. So I called the County (only giving it to school kids), the State (clueless), the local hospital (nope), my primary care physician (nada). Finally found a oasis of H1N1 vaccines at a Philly clinic right around the corner from my work! So, my 21 month old daughter got the jab today.

    That said, it appears that in Pennsylvania, a large portion of kids 6 months to 5 years old won’t have access to the vaccine, unless they spend hours on the hunt… which is a shame.

  75. #75 Mr. B
    November 10, 2009

    Corina Becker: Your story reminds me of several weeks ago when my wife and I took our two boys (the eldest of whom has an autism diagnosis, the other suspected) to get our seasonal flu shots. My wife did ask if they had thimerosal-free pediatric shots (despite neither of us thinking anything wrong with it – call it an unnecessary precaution), and after we all got our shots, I somewhat unthinkingly asked her if she had asked the nurse who gave the shots to make sure they were thimerosal-free. Her response: “What’s it going to do, make them more autistic?” I had trouble containing my laughter at that point.

    On-topic: The school I teach at had H1N1 shots on Friday free to any students who wanted it, and about a third of the students (I think) took advantage of the offer. I was disappointed the numbers were so low and that I couldn’t get it (it was only offered to faculty with serious health conditions, and I’m too healthy). I know that part of it is anti-vaccine idiocy, and I’m really doing my best to combat it when students have suggested that it isn’t safe (and I even spent time talking in one of my English classes about how the Desiree Jennings case is bunk). Fighting ignorance and misinformation is an uphill battle, no doubt.

  76. #76 Rogue Medic
    November 10, 2009

    @55 Dangerous Bacon,

    Interesting that a new USA Today/Gallup poll finds that 58% of respondents place moderate to great blame on the government for H1N1 vaccine shortages, and 62% blame drug companies. No word on how many blame antivaxers, or if pollsters even thought to ask that question.

    From what I have read, the vaccine companies and the government oversight people have stuck to the high end of the production estimates, even after they have encountered delays. I don’t remember where I read the article, but it was like reading Richard Feynman’s critique of NASA’s estimates of space shuttle safety. So, it seems that there is some blame that should fall on both. Typical bureaucrats.

    However, you are correct that the biggest problem with vaccine availability is due to the excessive costs created by the conspiracy theorist/Green Our Wallets mob.

    I wonder if I can special order some vaccine with Botox, so I can be just like Jenny McCarthy.

  77. #77 Shay
    November 10, 2009

    We have been lucky in our county, have rec’d three shipments of H1N1 vaccine, have vaccinated approx 7K residents (about 4% of the county) in the last three weeks.

    No reports of dystonia, third arms or other mutations yet. Maybe it’s too soon?

  78. #78 Dr R
    November 11, 2009

    I’m an ID physician in the Southern Hemisphere.

    I personally managed over 100 patients admitted to our institution with H1N1 pneumonitis. Most were otherwise well young adults (although obesity was common), and several were pregnant women. Of these, 20% ended up in ICU sucking plastic or having a rest from breathing altogether on ECMO machines.

    We have never seen anything like this before (ie fit young people desperately ill, side by side, on ventilators/ECMO); I imagine it was similar to Toronto and HK during SARS.

    5% of our patients died, 4 of whom were physically healthy before acquiring the infection. 3 fetal losses.

    These ani-vax clowns (this includes you, Dr Jay) are welcome to come on a ward round with me and explain to the relatives of these desperately ill patients why they, with all of their knowledge and experience of infectious disease acquired from C-class celebrities, think we shouldn’t vaccinate to prevent this infection.

    Oh, and if you think my opinions are invalid because I’m a ‘paid pharma shill’ (no COI BTW) and have no personal experience of the disease….I got H1N1 infection myself in July , was sick for a week, and then to top things off, got otitis media and sinusitus afterwards, requiring antibiotics.

    Get the vaccine people. Pregnant women, children, obese folks and healthcare workers at the front of the line please.

  79. #79 brian
    November 11, 2009

    mk:
    ‘Brian…

    1) Just because B follows A that does not mean A caused B.
    2) People like you think all vaccines are harmful. You advocate for people to die.
    3) You’re a moron.’

    you believe all vaccines are harmless…that makes you the biggre moron.
    Hippocrates: ‘First of all DO NO HARM’
    =============================

    joseph:
    ‘brian: No, you’re definitely not right. Autism is found in adults about as often as it is found in children.’

    I mean autism that is ADULT ONSET…so someone getting vaccinated at 25 and becoming autistic…
    ================================

    LibraryGuy
    ‘Just remember to include chelation therapy to cure yourself. I understand chocolate cake is perfect for that.’

    ===============================

    This is the attitude that led to the use of vaccines: these were also thought to cure or prevent disease…but like Chocolate cake, they dont work. They can GIVE disease by bypassing the defences

  80. #80 brian
    November 11, 2009

    karlA
    ’43
    I got the H1N1 last Friday, not in a risk group, but a lefover after working hours from a doctor i know (the multiple doses glasses have to be administered within 24 hs of opening, or thrown out as I gathered). Still no autism. And here in Norway we have the one with BOTH thimerosal AND adjuvants’

    ——————–
    H1n1 ,vaccine , you mean, is not linked to autism..the MMR triple jab is…I guess this is an eg of your ignorance on this matter.

    ===============
    ‘Just took my son in yesterday, and then they told me they even had enough for me! Hurrah! Except… some idiot came down the steps at the county facility and said, “do you know what you’re doing? ‘

    Big Pharma must wish they had more people of your caliber! Amanda!
    ==================

    From one deranged soul, to another:

    ‘AmandaL – your lucky you got the vax for your son. I’m in Australia and they are very strict here and wouldn’t give the vax to my 2 year old because of the mercury content. Now I have to wait ages (months) for the childrens mercury free vax to come out. Our Goverment is so fucking paranoid about getting their asses sued. I think they’ve fallen hook, line and sinker for the mercury = autism myth. You Americans are so lucky your kids can get the vax now. I am shit scared that my kid will get swine flu.’

    Dan the what? Thats an interesting criticism of the pro-vaccine lobby! So aussie kids afre protected by a govt that cares, as opposded to one run by Big Pharma…
    If you want to harm yourself or your kid, there are plenty of options…
    Youre being scared shitless is proof that youre an idiot whose been sucked in by the industry propaganda…NO you wont die from the swiner flu, unless you have some serious health problem youve failed to address.

    Youre with to put mercury in your kid shows your an irresponsible parent…

    http://www.kuenselonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13837

    Baby deaths led to suspension

    home Pentavalent Vaccine 29 October, 2009 – 29 October, 2009 – A day after a two-month old baby received the first dose of the pentavalent vaccine, she stopped feeding well and cried more often. On the third day, she was brought to Thimphu referral hospital from central Bhutan.

    “After admitting her, she became sicker. She had seizures, cried insistently and became pale,” said the father.

    Four days later, on October 20, the baby died. “I never thought that it was due to the vaccine,” said the father. “It was only after I reached Thimphu that the possibility of the vaccine’s side effect was made.”

  81. #81 brian
    November 11, 2009

    dr what?
    ‘t the vaccine people. Pregnant women, children, obese folks and healthcare workers at the front of the line please.’

    I can just see you pressing pregnant women to get Thalidomide!

    as for the thimerosal-addicts, think twice before you give it to pregnant women:

    ‘Dr.Boyd Haley RESPONSE TO 2008 R. SCHECHTER AND J. GRETHER PUBLCIATION Autism was not a known, described illness until about 1941-3, 8 to 10 years after the introduction of thimerosal and similar organic thiol-mercury compounds in biological mixtures used in medicine and other areas. This argues against autism being a genetic illness.
    In 1977, 10 of 13 infants treated in a single hospital by topical application of thimerosal for umbilical cord infections died of mercury toxicity. This same topical was used on adolescents without obvious ill effects which strongly supports the concept that infants are very susceptible to thimerosal toxicity.
    The recent increase (starting about 1990) of autism spectrum disorders correlated well with the advent of the CDC mandated vaccine program which increased thimerosal exposures with increased vaccinations. Due to its toxicity, thimerosal would have to be suspect for causing autism. ‘
    etc
    http://www.whale.to/v/haley_q.html

  82. #82 brian
    November 11, 2009

    more wisdom from Dr Boyd Haley:

    ‘”You couldn’t even construct a study that shows thimerosal is safe. It’s just too darn toxic. If you inject thimerosal into an animal, its brain will sicken. If you apply it to living tissue, the cells die. If you put it in a petri dish, the culture dies. Knowing these things, it would be shocking if one could inject it into an infant without causing damage.” —-Dr. Boyd Haley, Professor and Chair, Dept. of Chemistry, University of Kentucky and one of the world’s leading authorities on mercury toxicity.’

    and

    ‘”A July 2000 report from a National Academy of Sciences study states that 60,000 children are born at risk for adverse neuro-developmental effects each year due to their mothers’ exposure to methyl-mercury. A Center for Disease Control and Prevention study in March 2001 (in Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) indicates that about 10% of American women of child-bearing age are at risk for having a baby born with neurological problems due to in utero mercury exposure (statistically representing about 375,000 babies/year). The fact that amalgams are most likely the major contributor to the mercury levels in American citizens should be clearly presented to the public. Yet all the American public hears is concerns about mercury in fish.”—Boyd Haley, Ph.D. (Testimony Before the House Government Reform Committee)

    http://www.whale.to/v/haley_q.html

  83. #83 Kathryn
    November 11, 2009

    In case anyone’s interested, here’s the FDA letter to medical providers about H1N1 vaccination, debunking the urban legends about the vaccine being manufactured or tested improperly.

    http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm189691.htm

  84. #84 brian
    November 11, 2009

    anton alias steve….
    ‘Brian, I do hope you don’t let children ride in cars or take baths. Or eat fast food, for that matter. Because all of those are known to have caused far more “adverse effects” in children than vaccines.

    Think of the children! *gasp!* *wring hands*’

    Indeed”: Think of the childre…and not the profits…Think hod obese todays kids are becoming…thats due to that fast food u seem to think is harmless.. Kids riding in cars:

    http://www.car-accidents.com/teen-car-accidents.html

    =========================
    ‘Tomorrow, November 11, will mark two weeks since I got my H1N1 flu shot, adjuvanted, with thimerosal, manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline. (I even have the vaccine lot number too :D)

    Two weeks. Still not more autistic. ‘

    No, corina , thats because youre an adult! But anyone who actually rushes to get a vaccine even when they have no idea they will get sick is just a very profitable idiot.

    Its infants who get the MMR who get the autism!

  85. #85 brian
    November 11, 2009

    ‘That said, it appears that in Pennsylvania, a large portion of kids 6 months to 5 years old won’t have access to the vaccine, unless they spend hours on the hunt… which is a shame.’

    yes enkidu.. then they wont suffer any of the following:

    ‘Systemic effects were also reported by CSL and Novartis vaccine recipients. Approximately 36% of volunteers that received the swine flu vaccine manufactured by CSL experienced mild systemic side effects. 8% of vaccine recipients reported moderate systemic side effects, and less than 1% experienced a severe adverse reaction to immunization. Severe side effects reported include, malaise, muscle pain, and nausea. Muscle aches were the most common systemic side effect reported by participants receiving the H1N1 vaccine produced by Novartis, and no severe systemic side effects were reported. The following are common whole-body side effects occurring in response to either H1N1 vaccination.

    Headache
    Malaise (feeling out-of-sorts)
    Muscle pain
    Chills
    Nausea
    Fever
    Vomiting

    ====
    http://diseases-viruses.suite101.com/article.cfm/swine_flu_vaccine_side_effects
    NOTE 1 % in a million victims kis 10000 cases…thats a lot of serious adverse effects….Think your lucky punk!

  86. #86 brian
    November 11, 2009

    ‘These ani-vax clowns (this includes you, Dr Jay) are welcome to come on a ward round with me and explain to the relatives of these desperately ill patients why they, with all of their knowledge and experience of infectious disease acquired from C-class celebrities, think we shouldn’t vaccinate to prevent this infection.’

    Dr R may like to return the favor by visiting autistic child victims of the MMR vaccine, of whom there are many thousands. Just contact Generation Rescue,,,i’m sure they can help you to contact these children and their parents.

    ===========================

    and for those with egg allergies….

    ‘Local nurses refuse required H1N1 vaccine
    by Sarah Costello, November 10, 2009
    Nurse Kelly Cobb never wished she were allergic to eggs until the Moses Cone Health System in Greensboro began requiring that all hospital staff receive the seasonal flu shot and the H1N1 vaccine.

    Individuals with egg allergies were exempt because both vaccines are egg based.’

    also note the vaccine zealot: get youyr flu shot or be fired!

    ‘Cobb, who works in the telemetry and urology units, said last year Moses Cone attempted to make the regular flu shot mandatory, but canceled the requirement halfway through the designated time period. This year, Moses Cone once again required all hospital staff to receive the seasonal flu shot by Oct. 31 or risk termination from their jobs.

    “I waited until the last minute to see if they would cancel (the mandatory seasonal flu shot),” Cobb said. “Moses Cone came out with a statement saying if you don’t get the vaccine it will be considered a voluntary resignation with no option for rehire.”‘

    ‘The H1N1 vaccination has become a controversial issue. Thousands of Americans are anxiously waiting for the vaccine to become available in their areas, but others are cautious of a vaccine that’s long-term side effects are still unknown.

    http://www.elon.edu/pendulum/Story.aspx?id=2935

    LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS UNKNOWN

    Land of the what….??

  87. #87 brian
    November 11, 2009

    ‘Eventually, as the fearmongering created a market for thimerosal-free saline,the manufacturers started replacing it with other products.’;

    sorry you miss your daily drug, Calli… But its strange you claim its safer than saline…when THIS sheet says the opposite?

    http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/MSDS/EMD/Docs/wcd00026/wcd026b4.pdf

    So it looks as if youre lying.
    ======================
    another faker:

    ‘Had my H1N1 shot this morning. I didn’t even feel it and my arm isn’t sore.

    Figuring the more the merrier, I then went out for sushi for lunch.’

    He means more mercury….

  88. #88 Dan the Man
    November 11, 2009

    OMG brian, you fucktard. Thanks alot for calling me a “deranged soul”. Is it so bad that I want to protect my kid from a DEADLY flu??? and no I don’t want to INTENTIALLY have my son injected with mercury, but if that is all that’s on offer, then I am willing to take that risk in order to protect him.

    It’s wankers like you who ruin herd immunity for the rest of us who are trying to do the right thing. YOU are the idiot…not ME.

  89. #89 brian
    November 11, 2009

    more on thimerosal:

    ‘Potential Acute Health Effects:
    Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of eye contact
    (irritant). Severe over-exposure can result in death.
    Potential Chronic Health Effects:
    CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
    MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells.
    TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
    DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available.
    The substance may be toxic to kidneys, liver, spleen, bone marrow, central nervous system (CNS).
    Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure to a
    highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in one or many human
    organs.
    p’

    http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Thimerosal-9925236

    NOW why woulds they say its toxic when People like DR R (not his real name!) say its safe!

    AH Kathryn: the FDA, that appendage to Big Pharma…
    =============
    This may explain some of the posts on this site:

    ‘Thimerosal is a preservative that contains mercury, a compound known to cause brain damage. ‘
    http://thimerosal-lawsuits.com/thim2.htm#tox

    ===================================

    meanwhile: beware the FDA:

    ‘On Feb 9, 2004, the National Autism Association issued a press release that reported on one of the larger studies under review based on the Center for Disease Control’s Vaccine Safety Datalink. The Association reports that independent investigation of CDC data revealed children were 27 times more likely to develop autism after exposure to three thimerosal-containing vaccines (TCVs), than those who receive thimerosal-free versions.

    Let that sink in. 27 times more likely to develop autism. Then consider that our government regulatory agencies had this information for years and deliberately kept it hidden from the public. This failure to warn the public was not due to negligence or laziness, it was a deliberate cover-up and it continues today.

    How do we know they had it for years? Because the staff for Rep Dan Burton (R-Ill) obtained an FDA internal e-mail written on June 29, 1999, by former FDA scientist Peter Patriarca, that offered a “pros and cons” assessment of the dishonest statement about Thimerosal in vaccines that the FDA was about to release, and described the questions that could be raised upon its release:

    (1) FDA being �asleep at the switch� for decades, by allowing a potentially hazardous compound to remain in many childhood vaccines, and not forcing manufacturers to exclude it from new products.

    (2) various advisory bodies aggressive recommendations for use.

    (3) the dose of ethyl mercury was not generated by �rocket science�: conversion of the % of thimerosal to actual ug [micrograms] of mercury involves 9th grade algebra.

    (4) What took the FDA so long to do the calculations?

    (5) Why didn’t CDC and the advisory bodies do these calculations while rapidly expanding the childhood immunization schedule?

    The FDA knew.

    In 1997, Congress passed the FDA Modernization Act, which required the FDA to review all drugs that contained mercury and determine their adverse effects on humans. For many years, Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative, was added to childhood vaccines in multi-dose bottles, basically to increase profits for vaccine makers.

    Thimerosal is nearly 50% mercury, which is a known to be extremely harmful to fetuses, infants and children. Beginning in 1987 and throughout the 1990s, it became the main source of mercury in infants and toddlers when the number of vaccines added to the national vaccine schedule nearly tripled.

    In 2000, the FDA determined that a 12 to 14-month-old child, receiving vaccines required under the Immunization Schedule, often received four to six shots during one doctor visit. Consequently over time, the child would be injected with as much as 40 times the amount of mercury considered safe.

    The corresponding increase in autism is concrete evidence of the link between autism and vaccines. Twenty years ago, autism only affected one in 10,000 children. The Autism Autoimmunity Project reports that the disorder strikes 1 in 150 (or 1 in 68 families) today.

    During the 1990s, as some 40 million children were vaccinated, drug company profits soared and there’s no doubt that the companies knew about the dangers of Thimerosal and put profits over the health of a whole generation of children.

    The LA Times obtained a 1991 internal memo from the drug company Merck, which proves the company knew then that Thimerosal in vaccines posed a serious health threat. The memo noted that 6-month-old children who received their shots on schedule would get a mercury dose up to 87 times higher than guidelines for the maximum daily consumption of mercury from fish.

    etc
    http://dissidentvoice.org/June05/Pringle0602.htm

  90. #90 cAt
    November 11, 2009

    I’d be at the front of the queue to get the vaccine, except that I’ve already had H1N1.

    If herd immunity weren’t at stake, I’d be content to let natural selection take care of anti-vaccinators.

  91. #91 Luna_the_cat
    November 11, 2009

    The little Energizer Bunny of Assholish Trollishness is getting worse.

    brian, you truly need to read up on the Dunning-Kruger effect and understand that it applies to you.

    The “references” you have provided (whale.to and Generation Rescue, for example) are also the very reason that [sane, educated] people mock you. Certainly the “material” from those sites bears very little resemblance to the real world. Not only are you patently not very bright and not very educated, you are also well outside the pale by vicious insults towards parents and the very doctors who are trying to save the lives of people hit by this flu.

    Get a clue. Get a grip. Get some manners.

  92. #92 MikeMa
    November 11, 2009

    brian,
    That was one total load of crap you just dumped. Cut & paste has been good to you lad. Now try and READ some of the crap.

    I won’t bother debunking most of it – no time – but early on you linked MMR with autism. Bad joke. Wakefield faked the data in order to market his own competing vaccine. The UK medical board will sanction him for this and likely pull his license to practice in a few days. He’s a fraud and so are you.

  93. #93 gpmtrixie
    November 11, 2009

    In this part of PA (south central), I have been able to get the H1N1 (nasal mist) for my older 2 kids at a clinic in the local public school and the seasonal and H1N1 shots for my 2 year old. The latter was at a clinic at the pediatrician’s office and there was a nice, healthy line of parents with their little ones. Still need to get round 2 of H1N1 for the little one and seasonal shots for the older 2, but I’m halfway there.

  94. #94 Luna_the_cat
    November 11, 2009

    MikeMa: Hang fire on the “few days” bit — last I could see from the ongoing hearings at the GMC (http://www.gmc-uk.org/news/4129.asp) the next round of testimony on Andrew Wakefield is going to be taking place between 19 Nov. and 23 Dec.

    This *is* an astonishingly long time for the hearings to have been going on. I’d love to get more info on what’s going on in there.

  95. #95 Luna_the_cat
    November 11, 2009

    Re. the mercury canard — up until the mid 1950s, babies were exposed to levels of mercury hundreds to many thousands of times higher than the trace quantities they are exposed to today: in teething powders, skin creams and skin powders, rinses for diaper rash, and even patent medicines for worms, all of which were based on calomel, the mercury compound mercurous chloride. Hundreds of babies fell ill every year and dozens of them died from measurable mercury toxicity (sadly, it was 1951 before this was identified as the problem, and another 3 years before calomel-containing products started to be phased out) — this was known at the time as “pink disease.”

    Given this incontrovertable historical fact, if autism were in any way connected to exposure to mercury, you would have epxected a “plague” of autism to have been happening ever since the advent of the calomel-based teething powders in the 18th C. right through to the early 1960s, after which we should have seen a massive drop in the incidence of people with autistic symptoms. Same as how there was a plague of pink disease with dozens of infant deaths every year, which dropped precipitously after 1954-55.

    Oddly enough (hah), I can find absolutely no mention of such a preponderance of autistic symptoms during the time of heavy exposure of babies to mercury, nor any record or mention or memory of the disappearance of such symptoms in the 60s-70s.

    So, why do the alt-med types think that is?

  96. #96 KariA
    November 11, 2009

    Yeah, Brian, I ment the *vaccine*. Just figured it would be obvious from the context. But then again, you are not showing a great track record when it comes to actually understanding what you read. Hope you get a severe case of the swine flu, so that you’ll be impared from trolling for some time. Yep, I’m that cynical of a person.

  97. #97 KariA
    November 11, 2009

    And btw, the MMR jab isn’t linked to autism either, if you follow the research. So I guess that’s ignorance on you part, stupid.

  98. #98 MikeMa
    November 11, 2009

    Luna @94,
    I read on Brian Deer’s site that the decision would be made in Nov or shortly thereafter. I’m a hopeful guy and at my age, 30 days seems to just fly by:)

    Regardless of the GMC’s response, Wakefield’s perfidy is well documented. Sadly, he has little reason to leave his money printing business at Thoughtful House where he dupes the credulous and stupid. Returning to the UK has a very diminishing attractiveness I expect especially with Brian Deer camped outside his office.

  99. #99 T. Bruce McNeely
    November 11, 2009

    I haven’t got my H1N1 shot yet. We had a clinic at the hospital last week, but it was restricted the staff with frequent patient contact. As a pathologist, I have little patient contact. This week, we have a clinic for other staff, but I’m away at an Infectious Diseases conference, which is kind of ironic.

    Maybe next week.

    BTW, we have had 3 swine flu deaths at our hospital so far. No vaccine deaths. So brian, take yourself and your misinformation-filled ass out of here. You are tedium itself.

  100. #100 stewart
    November 11, 2009

    Got my H1N1 2 weeks ago, the first day they were available for health care providers here. About 300 people in line 30 minutes after it was announced, and I estimate they immunized >80% of the staff. Since one of my coworkers and her child were both out for 2 weeks with H1N1, and we’ve had patients with such fun things as polyneuropathy from it, uptake has been good. If that means our infection rates run under estimates, and medical staff have more time to do their day jobs, then we’ll cope. Go Science!

  101. #101 Bellerophon
    November 11, 2009

    I don’t quite know why Brian keeps contributing his deranged bollocks to this site unless he is some sort of masochist. He reveals himself as an unthinking irrational fool, suffers wholesale destruction of his delusions and subjects himself to the (deserved) abuse of the intelligent but exasperated. I don’t think he realises that people read his stuff for a laugh.
    I would suggest that he takes himself off to one of the many sites populated by other loonies who will at least agree with him. He will make no inroads here

  102. #102 Corina Becker
    November 11, 2009

    Seriously, brian? the current argument over on AoA is that vaccines cause autism in people, children, adults and elders. They claim that Alzheimer’s is autism in the elders, and thus all people can get autism from any vaccine containing the toxin-of-the-month.

    (and for the record, yeah, I got the MMR as a child. bully for you, I don’t have GI issues, and Wakefield’s been debunked)

    Also, you linked to whale.to

    You think that we’re going to take you seriously when you link to whale.to? Really?

  103. #103 Luna_the_cat
    November 11, 2009

    MikeMa: Oh, I don’t expect that Wakefield will ever come back to the UK. He has quite the fan following in TX, and he is doing very well for himself despite not being licenced to practice medicine in Texas either — he managed to get Thoughtful House declared a 501(c)3 non-profit, somehow, and he gets $280,000/year from it. It’s not just that he is riding the whole “vaccines cause autism” thing, he’s raking it in and living well.

  104. #104 Tsu Dho Nimh
    November 11, 2009

    My county health department is doing a couple of smart things:

    Much of the vaccine is allocated to a company that does nothing but vaccine clinics – they have a roster of part-timers and full timers. A bunch more is allocated to a couple of large HMOs with the stipulation that it’s available to high-risk groups regardless of membership.

    These groups delivered 40,000 shots in one day at multiple clinics.

    And I’m still trying to find some :( I want my yearly dose of thimerosal!

  105. #105 Robin Levett
    November 11, 2009

    @KariA #97:

    And btw, the MMR jab isn’t linked to autism either, if you follow the research.

    Nor, for completeness, does the MMR jab contain thiomersal.

  106. #106 Tsu Dho Nimh
    November 11, 2009

    @89 Brian, the MSDS you cited is for undiluted thimerosal.

    Look at this one: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/a0326.htm

    POISON! DANGER! CORROSIVE. LIQUID AND MIST CAUSE SEVERE BURNS TO ALL BODY TISSUE. MAY BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED. INHALATION MAY CAUSE LUNG AND TOOTH DAMAGE. FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR.

    SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)
    ———————————————————————————————————–
    Health Rating: 3 – Severe (Poison)
    Flammability Rating: 2 – Moderate
    Reactivity Rating: 2 – Moderate
    Contact Rating: 4 – Extreme (Corrosive)
    Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES; CLASS B EXTINGUISHER
    Storage Color Code: Red (Flammable)
    ———————————————————————————————————–

    It’s used in common food products as a preservative!

    It’s recommended in alternative medicine for weight loss, curing cancer, curing dandruff, regrowing hair, curing leprosy, and all kinds of things!

    It’s used as a household cleaning product by people who even recommend it for households with babies!

    Organic gardeners use it for weed control!

    Vegans sprinkle it on their food for flavor!

    OMGWTFBBQ!!!! What could be so evil?

    Acetic acid, which as glacial acetic acid is seriously nasty stuff, but the common dilute form – vinegar – is popular and widely used. This is a good example of the “dose makes the poison”.

  107. #107 Todd W.
    November 11, 2009

    @Tsu Dho Nimh

    I inevitably shake my head in disbelief when someone copies and pastes a MSDS as evidence of how bad something is, when the warnings on the sheet are for bulk amounts, like you might find in manufacturing plants.

  108. #108 Robin Levett
    November 11, 2009

    …and more generally; had my H1N1 jab yesterday (seasonal jab in the other arm). Pandemrix contains plenty of that squalene goodness; aren’t I lucky.

    No signs either of autism or Alzheimers so far; at least, none that I remember.

  109. #109 otoemlak
    November 11, 2009

    I still can’t get the shots, we have some local vaccine, but I don’t fall in high risk group and we don’t have enough for everyone

  110. #110 frostieb
    November 11, 2009

    Could we ban Brian please? He’s adding nothing of value and it really makes it hard to find the interesting and intelligent comments.

  111. #111 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 11, 2009

    Whew…. just imagine the relief it is to know that no one in my family has gotten the swine flu vaccine and no one has died! I wonder what the odds are for that? Must be one in … um.. one in, help me here, anyway I feel like I won the lottery!

    And that’s what matters, isn’t it? It’s that no one in your family paid for your arrogance. Voluntarily becoming a carrier for the disease, infecting someone else whose immune system isn’t as awesome as yours – well, no reason you would care about that, is there? Next time you’re in the supermarket and you see that cute little baby in the shopping cart next to yours, just think about all those diseases you’re passing on. Why would you care? It’s someone else’s family who’s going to sit in the hospital waiting room, wondering if they’ve already seen their loved one alive for the last time.

  112. #112 Rogue Medic
    November 11, 2009

    Golly, brian seems to have misplaced his medication. Don’t worry, there isn’t any thimerosal in clozapine. Even http://www.fail.to/ will not pretend that it does.

    He might be able to keep Big Pharma rolling in the dough all by himself. Rather than banning brian, perhaps a Tickle Me Elmo icon that would appear next to his comments, just to put them in the proper perspective.

    Maybe brian is one of happeh’s other personalities.

  113. #113 Militant Agnostic
    November 11, 2009

    Tsu Dho Nimh @ 106 – that stuff makes dihydrogen monoxide look positively safe by comparison.

    That scary MSDS you posted should become the standard copy paste reply when ever the chemically clueless post hazmat info on a vaccine ingredient.

  114. #114 brian
    November 12, 2009

    ‘Could we ban Brian please? He’s adding nothing of value and it really makes it hard to find the interesting and intelligent comments.’

    thats right frosty, lets censor…but i recall: ‘they hate us for our freedoms’! People ban what they dont want to hear: in your case: its chemioals like Thimerosal are dangerous
    ==============
    ‘Seriously, brian? the current argument over on AoA is that vaccines cause autism in people, children, adults and elders. They claim that Alzheimer’s is autism in the elders, and thus all people can get autism from any vaccine containing the toxin-of-the-month. ‘

    Now that is silly..autism and alzheimers are two different diseases…their common feature is their site…BUT who calls alzheimers patients Autistic?

    ‘and for the record, yeah, I got the MMR as a child. bully for you, I don’t have GI issues, and Wakefield’s been debunked)’

    Care to prove you were given it? Youve a major issue in your gullibility…Wakefields not been debunked…what has been debunked are his critics..esp Brian Deer, who is guilty of journalistic misconduct.

    ‘Eleven days ago, Brian Deer renewed his onslaught against Andrew Wakefield in the Sunday Times. I wrote about it here and made the point that, since Deer’s allegations sparked the General Medical Council case against Wakefield which would not have occurred without his involvement, he was effectively a principal player in the story he was reporting — a clear conflict of interest and breach of journalistic standards.

    After I noted this, an American TV show last week accused Deer of journalistic misconduct in reporting a story in which he was a major player without acknowledging this fact. Deer has been trying to deny this ever since.

    First he threatened to sue the TV station
    etc
    http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/02/melanie-phillips-in-spectator-uk-a-deer-in-the-headlights.html

    now THATS perfidy…

  115. #115 brian
    November 12, 2009

    mikema:’I won’t bother debunking most of it – no time – but early on you linked MMR with autism. Bad joke. Wakefield faked the data in order to market his own competing vaccine. The UK medical board will sanction him for this and likely pull his license to practice in a few days. He’s a fraud and so are you.’

    Thanks for admitting you cant debunk any of it! No Wakefield did not fake data…the person making THIS claim is Brian Deer! The very person engaged in a breach of journalistic conduct, and working for a paper with links to the vaccine inductry…

    Incidentally, the people who first made the vaccine autism connection were the parents of autistic kids, who took their story to DR Wakefield for him to investigate…

    =========================
    ‘I don’t quite know why Brian keeps contributing his deranged bollocks to this site unless he is some sort of masochist. He reveals himself as an unthinking irrational fool,’

    Belly aching Bellerophon goes ballistic!

  116. #116 MikeMa
    November 12, 2009

    brian,
    When the GMC rules against Wakefield will you admit he was wrong? When most of his co-authors removed themselves from his lying Lancet article, how did that make you feel. Wakefield threatened Deer but that went nowhere. Deer is still employed doing real journalism while Wakefield fled the country to be a fake doctor.

    Parental anecdotes don’t make science brian.

  117. #117 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 12, 2009

    an American TV show last week accused Deer of journalistic misconduct in reporting a story in which he was a major player without acknowledging this fact. Deer has been trying to deny this ever since.

    And since it isn’t true, he’s completely correct to deny it. Deer has never denied the role he actually played in the Wakefield affair, which was to do the investigative journalism that exposed Wakefield’s rigged sample group and fraudulent misrepresentation of evidence, and then provide his findings to investigators from the GMC upon their request. Many antivax morons, such as Melanie Phillips, have made false claims such as “Brian Deer is the complainant” or “Brian Deer was the one to call for an investigation of Wakefield”; Deer has refuted those false allegations, with documentation.

  118. #118 Dedj
    November 12, 2009

    Indeed, I’ve asked multiple people involved in the campaign against Deer to quote the Code, Law, or Standard that Deer is breeching.

    The best people can do is some ambiguous accusation of journalistic somethingofother. They literally believe that if someone finds out about (I have to say alledged) professional misconduct then being a journalist is a disbar to being a complainant or informant.

  119. #119 brian
    November 13, 2009

    mike: What makes you think the GMC is an honest body?

    ‘GMC Advises UK Docs To Commit Fraud over MMR

    Is medicine institutionally corrupt? Here you will see the UK’s General Medical Council advising UK medical doctors how to commit fraud on the UK’s National Health Service for personal financial gain’
    etc
    http://stanford.wellsphere.com/autism-autism-spectrum-article/uk-gmc-advises-uk-docs-to-commit-fraud-over-mmr/287835

    and of course Deer has been caught committing with the GMC:

    ‘Eleven days ago, Brian Deer renewed his onslaught against Andrew Wakefield in the Sunday Times. I wrote about it here and made the point that, since Deer’s allegations sparked the General Medical Council case against Wakefield which would not have occurred without his involvement, he was effectively a principal player in the story he was reporting — a clear conflict of interest and breach of journalistic standards.

    After I noted this, an American TV show last week accused Deer of journalistic misconduct in reporting a story in which he was a major player without acknowledging this fact. Deer has been trying to deny this ever since.

    First he threatened to sue the TV station, denying that he had laid the initial complaint which formed the bulk of the GMC inquiry and claiming instead that the GMC had approached him for information about Wakefield following his stories:

    I did not lay the initial complaint against Wakefield. This allegation is a fabrication, albeit rather a small one in the MMR issue. The GMC asked me for my journalistic evidence arising from published stories. It was my public duty to supply my findings to this statutory regulator.

    Well, various people did think that Brian Deer’s complaint was the trigger for the GMC inquiry. One of those people, it appears, was Brian Deer. Screenshots record that, on his website, Deer previously boasted that he had instigated the GMC hearing. In May 2007, his website noted:

    GMC inquiry: After submissions by Brian Deer to the UK General Medical Council, the doctors’ regulatory body announced a public inquiry in to the affair. Sunday Times December 12 2004.

    etc
    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3362116/a-deer-in-the-headlights.thtml

    SO you were saying?

  120. #120 brian
    November 13, 2009

    Brian Deer: shows why Wakefield is correct about him:

    ‘Well, various people did think that Brian Deer’s complaint was the trigger for the GMC inquiry. One of those people, it appears, was Brian Deer. Screenshots record that, on his website, Deer previously boasted that he had instigated the GMC hearing. In May 2007, his website noted:

    GMC inquiry: After submissions by Brian Deer to the UK General Medical Council, the doctors’ regulatory body announced a public inquiry in to the affair. Sunday Times December 12 2004.

    By last week, however, the wording had been changed to:

    GMC inquiry: After Brian Deer’s reports, the UK General Medical Council, the doctors’ regulatory body, announced a public inquiry into the affair. The Sunday Times, December 12 2004.

    In May 2007, he wrote on his website:

    Pending a General Medical Council [GMC] fitness to practice panel hearing – arising from the investigation set out on this page… (my emphasis)

    Those highlighted words have now vanished from the website, which uses instead this formulation:

    Following Brian Deer’s investigation, and charges laid against Wakefield, Walker-Smith and Murch by the General Medical Council…

    The perception that the GMC was investigating Deer’s complaints about Wakefield was shared by no less a person than a High Court judge. In a libel ruling in November 2006 arising from a Channel 4 Dispatches programme about the Wakefield affair, Mr Justice Eady noted that:

    Well before the programme was broadcast [Mr Deer] had made a complaint to the GMC about the Claimant. His communications were made on 25 February, 12 March and 1 July 2004. In due course, on 27 August of the same year, the GMC sent the Claimant a letter notifying him of the information against him.’

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3362116/a-deer-in-the-headlights.thtml

  121. #121 brian
    November 13, 2009

    mike:’Deer is still employed doing real journalism while Wakefield fled the country to be a fake doctor’

    Deer is employed by a paper with ties to the pharmaceutical industry…hes a proven fraud. Wakefields discovery must be true as its has the medical profession against him, a proffesion in its vaccine fanaticism stands guilty of injurying the public…They cant probe him wrong, so they try to destroy his character.
    I was always interested in why Deer, a journalist with no knowledge of Wakefields field, was doing in his crusade against him…
    Now i know

  122. #122 snerd
    November 13, 2009

    Brian said: WHARRGHABL

    Manic-like typing deteced.

  123. #123 Luna_the_Cat
    November 13, 2009

    A repost just for brian, from the other thread:

    Just like to point out that libel laws in the UK are notoriously friendly to the plaintiff. In the US, if person A accuses person B of libel, then person A much prove that what person B said wasn’t true, or credibly true; in the case of doubt, the case is awarded to person B. In the UK, if person A accuses person B of libel, then person B must prove that what he said was definitely true; if there is any possibility of doubt the case is awarded to person A.

    With this in mind, remember that Wakefield brought a case against Brian Deer and Channel Four (UK) for libel, 4 years ago and then dropped that case and paid Deer & CHannel Four’s legal costs before the trial proceeded to its end. THAT would be a very strange thing to do if the allegations made by Deer were even potentially untrue.

    Just sayin’.

  124. #124 Luna_the_cat
    November 13, 2009

    Eh, there was supposed to be a link in the above post to the notification of Wakefield dropping the case against Deer:
    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=36663

  125. #125 Andrew
    November 13, 2009

    “I was always interested in why Deer, a journalist with no knowledge of Wakefields field, was doing in his crusade against him…”

    To expose the truth about a crooked doctor? It doesn’t take much knowledge of medicine to notice that a doctor is getting a paycheck from liability lawyers to make up evidence for their case, nor to notice that the doctor is hawking his own vaccine in competition with the one that he is being paid to say is dangerous. That raises another question: How much is “brian” being paid to lie about vaccines?

  126. #126 brian
    November 13, 2009

    Luna,,,ever been involved in a court case? They get very expensive…Wakefield doesnt have the resources of the Sunady Times…and they pulled a REYNOLDS DEFENCE So no Deers case has not been proven true.He is a proven liar as my posts from Melanie Philips shows/..cant you read?

    Go read it again….

    here is more:

    http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/04/10/sunday-times-stories-collapse/

    where:
    ‘The Sunday Times stories against MMR doctor and eminent gastroenterologist Mr Andrew Wakefield have just publicly collapsed in English General Medical Council legal proceedings together with the shameful defamatory attack on Mr Wakefield by Dr Evan Harris MP made in the English Parliament on 15th March 2004 under protection from legal action for defamation by Parliamentary Privilege.

    The stories written by now-shown-to-be unethical and unprofessional freelance journalist Brian Deer included the improbable and now shown false allegations that 13 eminent medical professionals at an internationally renowned centre of medical excellence, The Royal Free Hospital, London, England conspired together, possibly criminally, to carry out unethical research for no clinical benefit on severely ill autistic children during 1996 to 1998.

    The Sunday Times’ allegations are proving to have been one of the most significant journalistic frauds of the 21st Century. How any editor of any professional commercial newspaper could have believed and then published such stories many will now find hard to understand.

    Now revealed in the GMC proceedings by Mr Andrew Wakefield’s trial legal Counsel, Kieran Coonan QC, is that Deer, Harris and The Sunday Times were citing and relying for their claims on a different document, a proposal for research ethics approval when the investigations were clinically necessary and had research ethics approval under a separate application.’
    etc

    Doesnt look good for that pit bull disguised as ‘journalist’ Deer…

  127. #127 brian
    November 13, 2009

    ‘Julia a three year old US citizen has just won substantial compensation in the US Federal Court for autism caused by MMR vaccine – says her mother.

    What is different about this case? They kept the “autism” word out of the case. Many parents in other US cases have been advised to do this:-

    CBS News has found that since 1988, the vaccine court has awarded money judgments, often in the millions of dollars, to thirteen hundred and twenty two families whose children suffered brain damage from vaccines. In many … cases, the government paid out awards following a judicial finding that vaccine injury lead to the child’s autism spectrum disorder. In each of these cases, the plaintiffs’ attorneys made the same tactical decision made by Bailey Bank’s lawyer, electing to opt out of the highly charged Omnibus Autism Proceedings and argue their autism cases in the regular vaccine court. In many other successful cases, attorneys elected to steer clear of the hot button autism issue altogether and seek recovery instead for the underlying brain damage that caused their client’s autism.”: [Vaccine Court: Autism Debate Continues - Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and David Kirby Huffington Post 24 Feb 2009]‘

    http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/juliawinsmmrcase/

    Let Brian Deer slip out of this case.

  128. #128 brian
    November 13, 2009

    ‘To expose the truth about a crooked doctor? It doesn’t take much knowledge of medicine to notice that a doctor is getting a paycheck from liability lawyers to make up evidence for their case’

    except that he wasnt….the source fabrication for this is brian deer…

    It is odd tho that capitalists working for BIG PHARMA should be so worked up over the issiue even in this form…its not as tho youre concerned for people.

    Its also strange a ‘crooked doctor’s hould set up an institution like Thoughtful House, to treat autistic kids/….Any real crook would vanish to the Bahamas!

    http://www.thoughtfulhouse.org/

    ‘Mission Statement
    Fighting for the recovery of children with developmental disorders through the unique combination of medical care, education, and research.

    The Founding of Thoughtful House
    In September of 2001, Dr. Andrew Wakefield formulated a plan with friends and colleagues for the ideal treatment center for children with developmental disorders. The model comprised medical care, behavioral analysis and education, and clinical and laboratory research, all under one roof./’

    NOW does THAT sound like a crook??? HMM???

    You see, when you tell a lie, the contradictions pile up. AND you are lying, Andrew

    My guess is you work for BIG PHARMA right Andrew?

  129. #129 brian
    November 13, 2009

    ‘ That raises another question: How much is “brian” being paid to lie about vaccines?’

    Whose gonna pay me andrew? Your bosses in BIG PHARMA.

    Im not paid to lie (BIG PHARMA does that and kits called PR)..i tell the truth for free.

    This from Brian Deer site:

    ‘Q. Are you involved with any particular organizations at the moment?”

    “A. Aside from hurricane relief, which we plan on continuing to financially support for the next few years, we are very involved in the Thoughtful House. It is a clinic started by Dr Timothy Wakefield [a pioneering British gastroenterologist] that is doing research and treatment for autism. Many doctors just sort of regurgitate what pharmaceutical companies and medical journals say instead of listening to parents. Nobody knows his or her child the way a mother knows their child, and if a mother tells you her child was a completely different person the morning after the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps, rubella) then she ought to be taken seriously.

    “Dr Wakefield is controversial because he listens to these mothers. He has had a lot of success treating children through the colon and with a gluten-free diet. It is amazing to hear parents testimonials about their children getting 90% better through Dr Wakefield’s treatments. I don’t think a parent should ever take “there is nothing that can be done” as an answer. Find a doctor that is willing to listen.
    http://briandeer.com/wakefield/thoughtful-chick.htm

    which is a further testimony to Dr Wakefield. AND thanks to Brian Deer for bringing it to my attention!

  130. #130 MikeMa
    November 13, 2009

    Okay brian. I am tired of playing Whack-A-Mole with you. You believe whatever fantasy you like.

  131. #131 Luna_the_cat
    November 13, 2009

    Aw, that poor impoverished Dr. Wakefield. He only makes close to $300,000 a year. (He’s had raises since 2007, you see.)

  132. #132 brian
    November 13, 2009

    sorry the evidence against you is too strong, mike…

  133. #133 Chris
    November 13, 2009

    Except you haven’t presented any real evidence.

  134. #134 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 13, 2009

    ‘To expose the truth about a crooked doctor? It doesn’t take much knowledge of medicine to notice that a doctor is getting a paycheck from liability lawyers to make up evidence for their case’

    except that he wasnt….the source fabrication for this is brian deer…

    Wow, you really do live in your own little fantasy world, brian! Do you really believe that the Legal Services Commission provided a false document to Brian Deer when he made the request under the Freedom of Information Act? Or are you alleging that somehow Deer manufactured the documents that show Wakefield being paid by the Legal Services Commission for his services to the lawyers, and no one has yet caught on? Or do you simply believe that Brian Deer is in a conspiracy with the Big Pharma, Majestic-12 and the fairies at the bottom of the garden and so even when what he claims is independently verifiable it must nevertheless be a “fabrication” because he’s the one claiming it?

    And while we’re at it: where’s the names of those doctors, brian? You know the ones, the mainstream doctors who supposedly diagnosed Desiree Jennings with dystonia and said she was incurable? C’mon, buddy-boy, back it up or pack it up! Give us those names, that you yourself said were so easy to locate!

  135. #135 Chris
    November 13, 2009

    Don’t forget the testimony in US Federal Court that showed that when Wakefield was told the PCR data was showing a false positive due to contamination, he went with the false data anyway!

    That is documented in these transcripts. I don’t have time to find which day, but just open each one and look for “Chadwick.” There is a another person who figures in that testimony, but all I can remember is that his name starts with a “B.” Anyway, it all pretty much details (without Brian Deer’s input) that Wakefield’s study was fraudulent.

  136. #136 brian
    November 14, 2009

    ‘Or do you simply believe that Brian Deer is in a conspiracy with the Big Pharma’

    Brian Deers paper has ties to BIG PHARMA….

    ‘MMR vaccine manufacturer GlaxoSmithKline has appointed to its Board the head of News International James Murdoch. Murdoch is also boss of The Sunday Times, London, England publisher of stories by freelance journalist Brian Deer to discredit research into the link between MMR vaccine and autism in the US and UK [James Murdoch joins Glaxo board - Andrew Jack and Ben Fenton Financial Times 2 February 2009].

    Murdoch will serve as a member of GSK’s corporate responsibility committee, where he will help to review “external issues that might have the potential for serious impact upon the group’s business and reputation“:[James Murdoch takes GlaxoSmithKline role – Chris Tryhorn The Guardian Monday 2 February 2009. ‘

    Conflict of interest or corruption…

    NOW if it were Wakefield with such ties, youd be all over it..BUT since its Brian Deer……

  137. #137 brian
    November 14, 2009

    ‘And while we’re at it: where’s the names of those doctors, brian? You know the ones, the mainstream doctors who supposedly diagnosed Desiree Jennings with dystonia and said she was incurable? C’mon, buddy-boy, back it up or pack it up! Give us those names, that you yourself said were so easy to locate!

    ask the media,its their story…BUT what do u plan to do if u get the names? Go and threaten them? Thats it isnt it,,.,You are so upset at this story you want to threaten the doctors….

  138. #138 Dedj
    November 14, 2009

    Wakefield did have such ties at one time, and may still do.

    He used to work in a hospital remember? If we follow your logic, that it counts regardless of how pragmatically or organisationalloy removed the connection is, then he would have had ties galore to pharma companies.

    This is not about connections, but the STRENGTH and IMMEDIACY of those connections.

    Until you learn to recognise this situation properly, please shut up.

  139. #139 Dedj
    November 14, 2009

    Brian you moron!

    YOU are the one that has asserted that DJ was diagnosed at JH.

    YOU are the one that should a-l-r-e-a-d-y h-a-v-e links to direct statements from the Dr’s. You have already claimed they exist and have stongly implied that you have accessed them.

    Put them up or admit that you were lying.

    If you’re not big enough to do that, then please shut up and leave.

    Link or lose.

  140. #140 brian
    November 14, 2009

    ‘Brian you moron! ‘

    dont u luv it when criticism bloils down to ad hominems!LOL

    Wakefield has no ties to BIG PHARMA…thats the butt end of desperation!

    ‘He used to work in a hospital remember? If we follow your logic’

    Dont blame me for your (ill)logic!

    ‘YOU are the one that has asserted that DJ was diagnosed at JH.

    The assertion is FOX 5 news’.NOW i know your bitter that Fox had the temerity to report this story at all…its …its so unfair to vaccine zealots! You cant wait to pound those doctors into the ground…

  141. #141 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 14, 2009

    ask the media,its their story…BUT what do u plan to do if u get the names? Go and threaten them?

    Why, Brian, have you (conveniently) forgotten already? We were going to confirm your version of the Desiree Jennings story! “Its [sic] their story” — oh no no no, Brian, it was your story we were expecting you to support with actual facts, because you were insisting that everyone had to believe that:

    • * Desiree Jennings was diagnosed by mainstream doctors with dystonia; and
    • * Those same mainstream doctors pronounced her ‘dystonia’ to be “incurable”

    and it was when we asked you why anyone should believe that the above two claims were anything but misunderstandings or delusions dreamed up by Desiree Jennings and uncritically taken for truth by Fox News (which is also owned by Murdoch, ZOMGWTFBBQ!) it was you who said that we should believe it because:

    • * It was perfectly easy to find out those doctors’ names and where they’d announced their diagnoses of incurable dystonia.

    You are being asked to show us the facts behind your extravagant claims, and not just any facts, but the facts that you already assured us that you had found and had found easily.

    What does it say about the worth of your words that, when asked to back them up with facts, you bluster and delay and try to change the subject and in fact do anything except back them up with facts?

    Aww heck, what am I talking about?? Brian, backing up his words with facts?? Brian can’t even back up his words with a coherent theory! He proved that by ducking out on the question he was asked at 133: IF he really thinks that Wakefield was not paid 435,643 pounds by the Legal Services Commission for his services to “the MMR/MR multi party action”, how does he explain the documents the Legal Services Commission provided to Brian Deer under the Freedom of Information Act which show exactly that?

  142. #142 Chris
    November 14, 2009

    Yes, brian is a moron, or some kind troll auto-bot thought up by the less than stellar minds at JABS and AoA.

    The JABbers like John Stone and Clifford Miller have cooked up some kind conspiracy that Brian Deer made it all up (so much so that Miller spammed lots of blogs with this “fact” a few months ago). They also misrepresent studies in Japan that showed no decrease in autism when their MMR vaccine was discontinued. They are also the champions of cherry picking data, as noted on this blog post calling them out on their lies and misrepresentations.

    brian, you are now officially a troll. Many of those responding to your silliness have been too kind. It is now time to ignore the auto-bot brian troll.

  143. #143 Jen in TX
    November 14, 2009

    “Brian Deers paper has ties to BIG PHARMA….”

    Uh, Brian? You are aware that Wakefield’s work at Thoughtful House is largely funded by several members of the Johnson and Johnson family, right?

  144. #144 brian
    November 14, 2009

    in this video at 1:55, we learn that Guilain Barr is a possible side effect of swine flu vaccine

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r051fXtfng8

    Would yopu expose you children (4 to 9 years) to the potential disaster???For a disease they may not even get?

  145. #145 brian
    November 14, 2009

    J anmd J is not GSK.
    Chris, conspiracies do happen Just ask Richard Nixon.

    ‘delusions dreamed up by Desiree Jennings and uncritically taken for truth by Fox News ‘

    Fox 5 shows the papers from the institutions which examined her. Again, you can clear up your muddle by phoning FOX 5…why dont u? Better than digging yourself a deeper hole!

  146. #146 Jen in TX
    November 14, 2009

    “J anmd J is not GSK”

    So J&J isn’t a part of “BIG PHARMA”?

    (confuddled)

  147. #147 Dedj
    November 14, 2009

    Jen you forget : Pharma ties only count if the boss of the company that owns the company that owns the company that employs the boss of the company the employs the boss of the boss of the boss of the guy that commissions your work, has – amongst multiple other appointments – one which occasionally calls for him to sit in a room with some Big Pharma guys now and then.

    Being directly and indirectly funded by several family members of one of the biggest and oldest ‘Big Pharma’ doesn’t count as a connection in brians world.

    Toodles, I need to go use the ocean. Hey, the rest of us call it a toilet, but it’s connected to the sewer, which is connected to the sewerage plant, which is connected to the reservoir system, which is connected to the river system, which is ultimately connected to the ocean.

    In black-helicopter brians world it’s all the same thing.

  148. #148 mk
    November 14, 2009

    @Brian…

    “Brian you moron!” is not an ad hominem… you fucking moron.

  149. #149 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 14, 2009

    Brian, if you’re talking about this video, it does indeed show “the [sic] papers from the institutions [sic] which examined her”; that is to say, for four seconds it displays part of one piece of paper. Does it say on that paper “dystonia”? No it does not. Does it say on that paper “incurable”? No it does not. In fact, the most obvious thing the paper does say is “IMPRESSION”, suggesting that everything that can be made out from that section of the paper is the symptoms she displayed.

    It is not any clinician’s assessment of what those symptoms represent, so it is definitely not an indicator that any mainstream doctor diagnosed dystonia, or any other non-psychogenic disorder.

    It is most definitely not a prognosis, either, so it is absolutely worthless as support for your claim that mainstream doctors considered her incurable.

    The simple fact is that you still cannot back up the claims that you insist are so devastating. When challenged to back up your claims, you sneer, and jeer, and insist that someone else should go do your research for you and then they’d see that you were right because it’s so easy to find the evidence proving you right. And when challenged to find that evidence yourself, you sneer, and jeer, and come back with “evidence” that doesn’t match what you claimed you were able to prove. Or you change the subject, like you did when challenged to explain the documents that show Andrew Wakefield receiving 435,643 pounds by the Legal Services Commission, something you claimed was just a “fabrication”.

    Do you really think you accomplish anything except make antivaccinationists look like nasty fools, when you make vehement claims and wild allegations, and can’t back them up?

  150. #150 Chris
    November 14, 2009

    Antaeus Feldspar:

    When challenged to back up your claims, you sneer, and jeer, and insist that someone else should go do your research for you and then they’d see that you were right because it’s so easy to find the evidence proving you right. And when challenged to find that evidence yourself, you sneer, and jeer, and come back with “evidence” that doesn’t match what you claimed you were able to prove. Or you change the subject,

    That is the classic behavior of a troll. Trolls should be ignored.

  151. #151 Militant Agnostic
    November 15, 2009

    Antaeus Feldspar:

    Do you really think you accomplish anything except make antivaccinationists look like nasty fools

    Isn’t that what they are?

  152. #152 brian
    November 15, 2009

    mk, id call it an ad hominem..or if you like a low brow rant.

    If J and J is funding Thoughtful House, then they dont feel threatened by it…GSK do.

    Yes, Dedj, you just go on defending Big Pharma…what else is a BIG PHARMA PR flack to do?!

    ‘It is most definitely not a prognosis, either, so it is absolutely worthless as support for your claim that mainstream doctors considered her incurable.’

    dont blame me whagt main stream doctors think…

    Its not my research..it you lot who need to do the research. You keep asking rhetorical questions, If its to hope i tgrip up, you dont know me very well.

  153. #153 brian
    November 15, 2009

    Antaeus Feldspar:

    Do you really think you accomplish anything except make antivaccinationists look like nasty fools
    Isn’t that what they are?’
    =———————–

    You may recall, all this began with Desiree Jennings innocently and trustingly doing the right thing and getting vaccinated…and ended up almost losing her life…

  154. #154 JohnV
    November 15, 2009

    she also ate breakfast that morning, probably watched tv and rode in a car.

    there’s just as much proof that those things contributed to her presumably psychogenic condition as her flu shot did.

    there’s also no real evidence she even has or had dystonia. so lets consider your argument: a flu shot she got may or may not have contributed to a disease she may or may not have had. that’s mighty powerful.

  155. #155 Joseph
    November 15, 2009

    @brian: It’s actually like this. James Murdoch was appointed non-executive director of GSK. James is the son of Rupert Murdoch, who heads News Corporation. News Corporation is a huge media conglomerate that has a subsidiary called News International Ltd, which in turn has 3 subsidiary companies, one of them being Times Newspapers Ltd. The Sunday Times, where Brian Deer works, is one of the papers published by Times Newspapers Ltd.

  156. #156 Dedj
    November 15, 2009

    Brian, I called you a moron and then went on to point out your arguement. You have failed to substantiate your arguement, and have done so in a way that makes you look totally stupid.

    Calling you a moron – then countering your argument – is not an ad hominem by definition. An ad hominem is an attack against the person, using their characteristics to devalue the arguement, INSTEAD OF arguing agianst thier arguement directly.

    Devaluing a person because of their abhorrent personal skills, poor arguementation and crass attempts at insinuating corruption and dishonesty, is called ‘practicing social judgement’.

    “dont blame me what mainstream doctors think…”

    OH MY F***ING GAWD! You really , really don’t get it do you?

    WHERE. IS. THE. EVIDENCE. THAT. THE. DRS. THINK. THIS?

    You claim it exists. Show us it or kindly admit you are basing it all on a newsreport. The only documentation linked to her case so far shows the opposite of what you claim is likely.

    This is not an ordinary claim, like ‘Such and such has cancer’, ‘Such and such broke her leg’, ‘Such and such has diabetes’. These are all entirely standard claims that have a high probabibility.

    The claim ‘So and so has a condition with very rare and contentious aetiology which all informed and trained observers so far have given their opinion that it presents atypically and which the only documentation presented so far suggests that it’s something else entirely, yet it’s still what she (and only she) says it is and I know because she once flashed a piece of paper that said something medical sounding on it, even though any informed person would know that it is the section that lists observations and symptoms, not diagnosis’, is a very extraordinary claim.

    Don’t you have some homework to do?

  157. #157 brian
    November 16, 2009

    johnv:’there’s just as much proof that those things contributed to her presumably psychogenic condition as her flu shot did.’

    except they hadnt done so till she had the vaccine…
    and her condition is not ‘psychogenic’ presumably or otherwise.
    =========================================
    Ded:’n’t you have some homework to do?’

    ive done mine…youve yet to do yours

    ‘Devaluing a person because of their abhorrent personal skills, poor arguementation and crass attempts at insinuating corruption and dishonesty, is called ‘practicing social judgement’.’

    LOL…no wonder youre backing vaccination LOL!!
    No need to insinuate corruption and dishonesty…when the medical profession admits as much:

    ‘No other faculty member at Harvard has been as vocal a critic of the pharmaceutical industry as Marcia Angell. A pathologist and former editor in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, she began raising the alarm in 2000, when she wrote in the NEJM that medical schools were becoming “increasingly beholden to industry.” Harvard, she noted, had long prided itself on its strict conflict-of-interest stance, but she feared it was “in the process of softening its guidelines” in a bid to keep researchers from defecting to institutions with more-lax rules. ‘
    http://pharmagossip.blogspot.com/2009/11/bitter-pills-harvard-medical-school-and.html

    You DO need to do your homework!

  158. #158 Dedj
    November 16, 2009

    You really are taking the piss now. I beginning to suspect you actually get off on all this.

    First, the only source that DJ had a vaccine to begin with is her. The only source that says she was diagnosed with dystonia is her. The only source that says this was a JH is her.

    “You DO need to do your homework!”

    I need to do my homework as to whether or not I work for bug pharma? WTF? Have you even attempted to follow the discussion? What was the point of quote-mining Angell? You do realise that article went on the explain how strict the guidlines are, don’t you?

    You’ve explained and substantiated nothing.

    Learn to spell.
    Learn to form proper sentences.
    Learn to read.

    Now answer the questions or f**k off. You’ve wasted enough time already.

  159. #159 Dedj
    November 16, 2009

    Screw it.

    You’re a lost case brian.

    You’re so clueless, you could shit in your shoes and still wonder where the smell was coming from.

    You’ve done nothing but repeat the same crap over and over again. You’ve even shown a complete lack of knowledge over Wakefield, the crush you’re here to defend. He’s admitted that he was involved with the law firm involved in this, both in the Lancet letters pages and elsewhere, and Melanie Phillips (your source remember?) even tracked the money to the law firm 5 years ago. You can;t even be arsed to read your own sources, you lazy fuckwit.

    You are not worthy.

    Toodles forever wankstain.

  160. #160 Jen in TX
    November 16, 2009

    “If J and J is funding Thoughtful House, then they dont feel threatened by it…”

    Way to miss the point, Brian.

  161. #161 brian
    November 17, 2009

    ded:’
    First, the only source that DJ had a vaccine to begin with is her. The only source that says she was diagnosed with dystonia is her. The only source that says this was a JH is her.’

    Lets see, i can believe Desiree, whose been interviewed by FOX 5, and 60 odd doctors, none of whom has denied she was vaccinated…or i can believe you, a nameless faceless shill, whose never met her, never examined her but seems to know what she did on that day in august thats she a liar….

    GEE what a choice! Your type is precisely why Desirees case is true and so important..The attacks on her character are signs of desperation…her story is a threat to many vested interests.

  162. #162 brian
    November 17, 2009
  163. #163 brian
    November 17, 2009

    ‘You’ve even shown a complete lack of knowledge over Wakefield,’

    Big bad Dr Wakefield, so mean and bad he actually built a center Thoughtful House to help people and esp kids…how much meaner and badder can u get!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I can see how this would anger certain types..as its so mean and bad!!!

  164. #164 Luna_the_cat
    November 17, 2009

    “Thoughtful House” –yeah, real sweet setup he’s got there — he’s managed to get it classed as tax-exempt for its supposedly charitable status, and he takes home $300,000/year. Poor guy is just really suffering to help people, eh?

  165. #165 Dedj
    November 17, 2009

    As brian seems intent on making accusations, some corrective action is needed.

    Again:

    “First, the only source that DJ had a vaccine to begin with is her. The only source that says she was diagnosed with dystonia is her. The only source that says this was a JH is her.”

    To add:

    The only source that says she was examined by “60 Dr’s” is her. The whole thing is based entirely on her say-so. The vaccination. The 60 Dr’s. The diagnosis. All her, and only her. The entire Fox interview was based on her say so.

    So, basically you have no basis for claiming that “Dr’s say”.

    This isn’t about her (and your illusory “Dr’s”) versus me. I’m far from the only person to have noticed oddities in her story. People who do have expertise in neurological conditions have noted oddities in the videos of her that do no sync up with her claims. Observation of a persons motor patterns is a known part of any mobility and neurological assessment barrage, so you’re talking shit about that too.

    You have been asked mulitple times to substantiate your claims that you have direct references from these Doctors. You have repeatedly lied about having these sources. You have repeatedly shown that you are basically taking everything she says at face value.

    “thats she a liar”

    I never said such a thing, nor implied it. I’ve worked with people with psycogenic impairments before. All of them have been normal, moral, and of the honest belief that they have the condition. Some have a history of mental illness, but psychogenic impairments can also be found in people with physical conditions.

    “Big bad Dr Wakefield”

    You claimed he was never paid by lawyers. Wakefield admitted his involvement in the Lancet letters, and Melanie Phillips traced the money back to the law firm involved, even to the exact lawyer. Sorry, but both your sources have contradicted your claims.

    Everything you say is either wrong, or based on one persons say-so.

    You’re too much of a coward to admit it.

    You are no longer entertaining, but are at the stage where you invoke nothing but pity.

  166. #166 brian
    November 18, 2009

    ‘”First, the only source that DJ had a vaccine to begin with is her. The only source that says she was diagnosed with dystonia is her. The only source that says this was a JH is her.”

    so in your eyes that makes her a liar../..

    ‘I’m far from the only person to have noticed oddities in her story. ‘

    fanatics like company…it give them a sense of power.

    Comspiracy theorys surface on science blogs:
    Now it seems she never had the vaccine…thats the next step in the antiDesiree campaign! Beyond this lies the conpircy theorists wet dream: she doesnt exist…the videsos are of an actress acting the part of dystonic victims. What proof do we have that the person in those videos is who she says she is?

    ‘You have been asked mulitple times to substantiate your claims that you have direct references from these Doctors. You have repeatedly lied about having these sources.’

    Like you my sources are the news reports on Desiree…esp th FOX5, who unlike YOU actually interviewed her, and got hold of the reports you say dont exist. That you cant get the reports is no surprise as you are not legally entitlied to them. But you can ask Johns Hopkins..just be polite…

    AND yes you are saying shes a liar, which is laughable as everything youve written on her is smear and liars.

    So let me be clear: not only are you a liar ded,youre also a dangerous fanatic who seems to feel threatened by Desirees vaccine induced disorder an recovery….or are your BIG PHARMA stocks threatened!LOL

  167. #167 brian
    November 18, 2009

    ‘Thoughtful House” –yeah, real sweet setup he’s got there — he’s managed to get it classed as tax-exempt for its supposedly charitable status, and he takes home $300,000/year. Poor guy is just really suffering to help people, eh? ‘

    unlike You Luna, hes not sunning himself in the Bahamas,but working for the very people: the vaccine induced autistic kids, you dont care a jot for.

  168. #168 Luna_the_cat
    November 18, 2009

    Heh.
    @Dedj:

    You’re so clueless, you could shit in your shoes and still wonder where the smell was coming from.

    Please, may I borrow that line?

  169. #169 Dedj
    November 18, 2009

    “Please, may I borrow that line?”

    Yes, it’s utterly lost on lower case brian (who still can’t seem to get that claiming reports exist and then refusing to say where they’re available makes him either stupid, a time-watser or an out and out liar) so we may as well get some use out of it.

    brian has been giving far too many chance to prove that he isn’t lying about the reports. He has crossed into time-waster tosser territory.

    That line is too good to waste on just him.

  170. #170 otoemlak
    April 18, 2010

    “If J and J is funding Thoughtful House, then they dont feel threatened by it…”

    Way to miss the point, Brian.

  171. #171 accident reconstruction
    October 7, 2010

    that is great that you were able to get the H1N1 vaccine for your employees. I really think that everyone that works where I am at should get the shot since they are working with the public so much, but I know that the owner just wouldn’t have anything to do with that because it would cost him too much money to have that kind of thing covered.

The site is currently under maintenance and will be back shortly. New comments have been disabled during this time, please check back soon.