Respectful Insolence

Andrew Wakefield’s back, and he’s sure trying to come back big.

I knew when I last wrote about his utter humiliation and disrepute that he wouldn’t stay away for long. In fact, he stayed away longer than I thought–a whole three months. Unfortunately, though, he appears to be on a full media blitz to try to rehabilitate his image in the wake of his having been found to have committed research misconduct, leading to The Lancet retracting his article that started the anti=vaccine MMR scare back in 1998, which further led to NeuroToxicology withdrawing his execrably badmonkey business” study before it actually saw print. All of this was too much even for the board of directors at his autism quackery clinic, Thoughtful House, who, spearheaded by Jane Johnson, who is ironically enough, an heiress to the Johnson & Johnson pharmaceutical fortune and also on the board of directors of Thoughtful House, appears basically to have fired Wakefield.

Tomorrow appears to mark the beginning of Wakefield’s “coming out.” I’ve already written how Wakefield will be the keynote speaker at Autism One and its associated anti-vaccine rally this Wednesday in Grant Park. Somehow, though, he’s managed to score an interview with Matt Lauer again on NBC’s The Today Show, no doubt because Lauer was a pushover in a “tell both sides” NBC special on Andrew Wakefield last summer, not to mention because the the General Medical Council GMC) will meet tomorrow and at that meeting Wakefield will likely be “struck off” (that delightful British expression for being “struck off” the list of licensed medical doctors in the U.K.). In fact, given the time difference between the U.K. and New York, it’s quite possible that Wakefield may be struck off by the time Lauer interviews him.

Not surprisingly, already the anti-vaccine forces are rallying to show support for Wakefield. They’ll be there with Age of Autism T-shirts and, no doubt, anti-vaccine signs, signs supporting Wakefield, signs castigating the GMC, and handing out fliers that say things like this:

Let this notice serve as warning to all entities behind the orchestrated efforts of the witch hunt against Dr. Andrew Wakefield & his two colleagues, Dr. Walker & Dr. Smith, as well as the well being of our children. You had better think twice before trying to pull off another kangaroo court this coming Monday. You don’t dare to take these good doctors licenses away because you don’t want to meet our wrath you have been fueling. “We The People” are many & we will be watching. We will save our children by bringing them out of harms way, no matter what more you do to cover up the truth. We will be holding accountable every person we find who works to hold our children in harms way. You can all take that to your bank.

They even refer to a “rally” that will start at 8 AM. Yours truly is also mentioned:

I wonder if it would piss off the Orac’s trolls if we gave Wakefield an honorary Knighthood?

Actually, it wouldn’t piss me off. I would laugh heartily at such antics.

I don’t live in New York, but I wonder if it’s possible to mount some sort of skeptical response. The anti-vaccine propaganda should be countered somehow, but I don’t know if it will be possible on such short notice.

Comments

  1. #1 Emil Karlsson
    May 23, 2010

    The anti-vaccination movement is like an evil vampire; just when you think it is dead, someone goes up to it and pulls out the stake.

  2. #2 https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmi0enWEr3aTvuG9Z9VYXrYemhjnDKbjKo
    May 23, 2010

    In the meantime read the article by Brian Deer, the journalist who exposed Andrew Wakefield, in today’s Sunday Times (UK)

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article7133807.ece

    The UK contingent of The Age of Autism popped up in the comments with their woo giving everyone an opportunity to respond appropriately in the comments section, too.

  3. #3 Horse
    May 23, 2010

    Sounds like CBS needs to be sent the graphic novel before the show.

    http://tallguywrites.livejournal.com/148012.html

  4. #4 rni.boh
    May 23, 2010

    In fact, given the time difference between the U.K. and New York, it’s quite possible that Wakefield may be struck off by the time Lauer interviews him.

    He will be, unless Lauer wants to get up bloody early: the GMC will announce their decision at 9.30am BST:

    Update: It is now expected that on Monday 24th May 2010 at 9.30am the Fitness to Practise Panel will announce the final determinations on serious professional misconduct and, if necessary, sanction in the hearing of Dr Andrew Wakefield, Professor John Walker-Smith and Professor Simon Murch.

  5. #5 LizH
    May 23, 2010

    I kinda wish I lived in New York. I have this horrible desire to make up fliers with a picture of a cute baby and the text “Mommy, please vaccinate me. I don’t want to die of measles.”

  6. #6 Todd W.
    May 23, 2010

    Sent a message to the NYC Skeptics letting them know about this. Maybe they can mount a suitable response.

  7. #7 augustine
    May 23, 2010

    You fight propaganda with propaganda not science.
    But, but you guys already know this.

    I picture of a baby crying saying “Mommy, please vaccinate me. I don’t won’t to die of measles.” is good propaganda.

  8. #8 Orac
    May 23, 2010

    Already done, but it’s such short notice…

  9. #9 Denice Walter
    May 23, 2010

    Unfortunately,I’ll be otherwise engaged;however,here is contact info for the Today show:e-mail- TODAY@nbcuni.com;phone-(212)664-4602.Hi Matt.

  10. #10 Seb30
    May 23, 2010

    Every times I read the part about “witch hunt”, I’m thinking of the Monty Python’s witch trial.
    Considering his recent history, I keep wondering if Mr Wakefield will be indeed found weighting as much as a duck.

  11. #11 Party Cactus
    May 23, 2010

    Considering his recent history, I keep wondering if Mr Wakefield will be indeed found weighting as much as a duck.

    Well, he is a quack…

  12. #12 Shay
    May 23, 2010

    PC@11 — rimshot!

  13. #13 autiemum
    May 23, 2010

    The Age of Autism “statement” which starts “let this notice serve……..” reads like a threat to kill their autistic children.

    Wakefield himself quotes a mother telling him that she can’t let her child live when she is no longer there to look after him.

    I fear this hysteria is going to bring some mothers to do this.

  14. #14 sheldon101
    May 23, 2010

    The actual term is ‘erased’ from the register.

    I sent an email to the GMC, asking if they would televise the erasure ceremony. Sadly, I learned that they no longer erase his name from the register. They just change his status in the database.

  15. #15 DLC
    May 23, 2010

    When one side is idiotic and dangerous to society as a whole, you do not “tell both sides”.
    When one side is complete batshit insane, you do not tell both sides.
    how hard is this to figure the hell out ?
    Just once I want to see Lauer actually act like a damn journalist and ask the tough question. But, it’s morning cheery-chat, so he will no doubt give wackofield his 20 seconds plus in which to blather on about how he’s being jobbed.

  16. #16 Marc
    May 23, 2010

    Obviously the parents who have been sucked in by AoA and Wakefield care deeply about their children. I just wish their care extended to actually wanting to do something constructive instead of continuing to worship a false prophet (or should it be “profit” considering he was getting paid for his research and had patented a vaccine himself) and instead channeling their energy into raising funds for real research. Unlike in science, though, they’re fulling convinced that there is no more real research to be done–the question is answered and TEH VACCINES!!!1! are the obvious cause so no need to actually investigate with more than 12 coerced children who were medically abused in a dishonest and unethical way.

    Sigh.

  17. #17 DLC
    May 23, 2010

    Oh, and — AoA-Fans : feel free to name Wakofield anything you want, up to and including a Knight, Bishop or Queen of the May.

  18. #18 bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    “Mommy, please vaccinate me. I don’t want to die of measles.” Huh?

    Just curious what the current death rate is for measles in the US and what percentage of those who contracted the measles were unvaccinated?

    “Mommy, please open an umbrella. I don’t want to die from an asteroid.”

  19. #19 Chris
    May 23, 2010

    Just curious what the current death rate is for measles in the US and what percentage of those who contracted the measles were unvaccinated?

    Fortunately the vaccine rate in the USA is still high enough for herd immunity to exist. But in the past few years there have been outbreaks in pockets where vaccination is low.

    So you asked a very stupid question.

    What you really need to ask is what happened in countries where vaccine dropped lower than it is in the USA. The answer is actual deaths in Japan, the UK, Switzerland, etc.

    All you need to do is keep up the news without your filter of ignorance: WHO says measles making ‘rapid comeback’.

    The real question, which you and your AoA friends cannot and will not answer is what is the real evidence showing that the MMR is more dangerous than measles, mumps and rubella. Remember death is not the only outcome. Other outcomes are permanent neurological damage at least one out of a thousand cases.

  20. #20 Zombie
    May 23, 2010

    bensmyson @18: That’s kind of the point. People don’t die of measles any more *because* of vaccination. Vaccination has reduced measles by several orders of magnitude and almost all cases are in unvaccinated individuals.

    Even when not fatal, measles is a very serious disease.

    Some statistics: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm57e501a1.htm

  21. #21 Bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    “Remember death is not the only outcome. Other outcomes are permanent neurological damage at least one out of a thousand cases.”

    Exactly, it’s called autism, except it’s one out of a hundred.

    So answer my question, how many of those who contract the measles have been vaccinated?

    WHO? You trust WHO? Were’t they the ones that said the pig flu would kill everyone unless they got vaccinated with what might have well turned out to be a placebo.

  22. #22 Chris
    May 23, 2010

    Oh, silly, silly persons!

    Autism is caused by the MMR? What is your evidence?

    Now here is a fact that Ben’s parents overlook, along with the rest of the AoA gang: The MMR that has been used in the UK since 1992 is the same one introduced in the USA in 1971.

    What is the evidence that autism started in the USA in 1971?

    The Lancet children included an American and children vaccinated in the UK before and after 1992. So that now retracted study included two different vaccines? Which one is the wonky vaccine and cause of autism? The one used before or after 1992 in the UK?

    In the USA outbreaks of measles were mostly in people who were not vaccinated. Only the idiots on AoA think that the MMR is 100% effective, so there are a few where the vaccine does not work. But, you silly persons who claim to be Ben’s parents… the 2008 outbreak of measles involved very few who were vaccinated:

    Over 90% of the 131-case patients were unvaccinated or had unknown vaccination status, and the rest, just a few – five – had received one dose and six had received two doses of MMR vaccine. Considering the 112 unvaccinated or unknown vaccination status cases, 16 of these were infants too young to be vaccinated. Those infants are usually protected through herd immunity in their communities, but they were exposed to measles in their communities and became infected. One case was in somebody born before 1957; the remaining cases, or 95 cases, were eligible for vaccination, and of those two-thirds of them, or 63, were unvaccinated due to their own or their parents′ philosophical or religious beliefs.

    Take note silly persons who are parents of the very unfortunate child named Ben:

    As Dr. Schuchat mentioned, the majority of the cases, 80% of the US resident cases, were less than 20 years of age, and a great majority of those were children whose parents chose not to have them vaccinated. Fifteen patients were hospitalized, including four children less than 15 months of age. Fortunately, we haven′t had any deaths this year.

    Now answer this question: Which MMR vaccine is the one that causes autism, and what is your evidence? What is your real evidence (please do not use papers that have been retracted)?

  23. #23 oh for crying out loud
    May 23, 2010

    mommy, please don’t vaccinate me. i don’t want to get autism.

    sorry, kid, if you’re going to get autism, you already have it. i’ll be vaccinating you to protect you (and the other kids at playgroup, and our neighbors) from illness and death.

    i’ve written to matt lauer.

  24. #24 Rene Najera
    May 23, 2010

    “We The People” are many & we will be watching.

    They should call themselves Legion, for they are many.

    DISCLAIMER: Uh, yes… Requiem In Terra Pax and so forth.

  25. #25 Science Mom
    May 23, 2010

    “Remember death is not the only outcome. Other outcomes are permanent neurological damage at least one out of a thousand cases.”

    Exactly, it’s called autism, except it’s one out of a hundred.

    @The tag team of bensmyson, why don’t you explain how MMR can cause autism (with references, of course) and why don’t you also explain why non-English speaking countries don’t give a flip about an MMR/vaccine-autism claim?

    I don’t know why you at AoA are having a collective apoplexy over Wakefield’s decision tomorrow; he said he doesn’t care about losing his license and it should certainly be no surprise to your lot if he does. Not having a license hasn’t stopped him, so why the fuss?

  26. #26 sikiş
    May 23, 2010

    What disappointed me, however, is that Dr. Bernardine Healy, former Director of the NIH, was a guest and that she didn’t slap Maher down hard for his idiotic statements about vaccines and Pasteur.

  27. #27 Ian
    May 23, 2010

    Oh good, bensmyson is here. I was worried this thread was going to be only 40 or so comments long…

    WHO? You trust WHO? Were’t they the ones that said the pig flu would kill everyone unless they got vaccinated with what might have well turned out to be a placebo

    You’re the only people I know who complain when people DON’T die. I’m looking forward to the day when Ben grows up and his internet alias is “Idontknowthosepeople”

  28. #28 DaveD
    May 23, 2010

    Horse @3 writes:

    Sounds like CBS needs to be sent the graphic novel before the show.

    That would probably not be a sound idea, but sending it to NBC might be, since the Today show is on NBC, not CBS.

  29. #29 kb
    May 23, 2010

    That flyer sounds terrifying. Whenever I receive stuff like that, I always make sure to smile extra-big and give people a thumbs-up, because I don’t want them to think I’m a supporter of big government/opposed to child marriage (as required by God, you know)/possessed by a demon trying to steal their soul/black helicopter pilot.

  30. #30 Adam_Y
    May 23, 2010

    What disappointed me, however, is that Dr. Bernardine Healy, former Director of the NIH, was a guest and that she didn’t slap Maher down hard for his idiotic statements about vaccines and Pasteur.

    You mean the idiot who claims their is a conspiracy for a vaccine/autism link coverup didn’t correct the idiot who claims there is a conspiracy for keeping us unhealthy. I don’t think dissapointment is the word.

  31. #31 RubberNecker
    May 23, 2010

    I enjoyed another part of one of this AoA comments Orac noted above. Behold:

    Unlike the Offit’s of the world, this man has NEVER changed his mind. Never back tracked on ANYTHING he has studied or said. He is a champion for my son and thousands of others.
    I wonder if it would piss off the Orac’s trolls if we gave Wakefield an honorary Knighthood?

    Indeed. Because nothing screams “proper science” like a scientist who is never mistaken or unsure about anything.

    When every hypothesis you test is always correct, you’re probably doing it wrong. Particularly when other scientists can’t replicate your findings…

  32. #32 KWombles
    May 23, 2010

    The journal Vaccine printed an excellent editorial in February (thanks Ken for passing it along)by Dr. Poland and Dr. Spier. In order to illustrate just how off the deep end the AoAers are, I contrasted this excellent editorial with a comment made by one of AoA’s two most extreme wackawoos. The study in contrasts is linked through my name.

    The AoAers have no credibility (something Ben’s parents prove every time they post here and then run off to AoA to let folks know they’re keeping the commenters here busy).

  33. #33 Catherina
    May 23, 2010

    why don’t you also explain why non-English speaking countries don’t give a flip about an MMR/vaccine-autism claim?

    Ja das, warum hat in Deutschland niemand Angst, dass MMR Autismus macht? Das kommt weil die Impfspinner dort so schlecht Englisch sprechen, dass sie die Englische Anti-Impfpropaganda nur sehr schleppend übersetzen.

    or:

    Yeah that – why isn’t anyone in Germany afraid that MMR causes autism? That’s because the local vaxaloons speak such bad English that they are lagging behind in the translation of the English anti-vaccine propaganda.

    Catherina

  34. #34 rw23
    May 23, 2010

    > I wonder if it would piss off the Orac’s trolls if we gave Wakefield an honorary Knighthood?

    For starters, an honorary award only applies to non-British citizens. And in any case, even our current mish-mash government isn’t so fucking stupid as to award a knighthood to a doctor who is so thoroughly reviled for his self-serving idiocy.

  35. #35 MikeMa
    May 23, 2010

    Wakefield is a despicable human being without a shred of honor or decency remaining. He performed a disservice to humanity and he did it for money. The St Andy worshipers have never addressed (to my knowledge) how they reconcile the lawyer’s fees paid to him to dig up actionable items against MMR or addressed Wakefield’s competing measles vaccine.

    Wakefield created a vaccine for crying out loud. The saint of autism quackery created a vaccine! Dr. Offit gets smeared but St Andy gets glory. Dissonance squared. Reality is decidedly against AoA. How long until they recognize it?

  36. #36 Kristen
    May 23, 2010

    I wonder if it would piss off the Orac’s trolls if we gave Wakefield an honorary Knighthood?

    ooh ooh, am I evil enough to be an Orac troll? Do I rate? I know I am just a lowly entry-level minion…have I made it to troll status (does Orac bestow such honors or AoA)?!?!?!?! It would make me sooooo happy!!!!

  37. #37 Scottynuke
    May 23, 2010

    “I wonder if it would piss off the Orac’s trolls if we gave Wakefield an honorary Knighthood?”

    Hmmmmm… Should we all gather under the Brookyln or the TriBorough Bridge? :-)

  38. #38 Chris
    May 23, 2010

    Why would they want to give Wakefield an honorary knighthood when they have already declared him a saint?

  39. #39 D. C. Sessions
    May 23, 2010

    Why would they want to give Wakefield an honorary knighthood when they have already declared him a saint?

    Of course he is missing one of the cardinal requirements for sainthood. How many of us (in our hearts of hearts) would be disappointed if he completed that requirement?

  40. #40 Bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    I just love how steadfast and unbending you folk think Offit is, prior to his fame and glory to the pop culture world of wannabe science groupies he was quite the opposite in 2002 and 2004.

    http://i46.tinypic.com/24lt1y1.jpg

  41. #41 MikeMa
    May 23, 2010

    @Bennysmom
    What about St Andy and his pro-vaccine work before you all made him an object of worship?

  42. #42 bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    I know more about Brian Deer than I do Wakefield. What little I do know is that I believe the “vaccine” you are talking about was a treatment to an existing disease, I may be mistaken though. Wakefield’s studies on children with gut issues has been well respected in the medical community, his patients have seen remarkable improvements and he weathers the storm admirably. That’s about the extent of my knowledge of Wakefield. I don’t worship him anymore than you might worship your pharmacist.

  43. #43 augustine
    May 23, 2010

    Kristen: “ooh ooh, am I evil enough to be an Orac troll? Do I rate? I know I am just a lowly entry-level minion…have I made it to troll status (does Orac bestow such honors or AoA)?!?!?!?! It would make me sooooo happy!!!!”

    No! Just an eager minion. You need more training. The cult doesn’t run strong enough in you.

  44. #44 Terrie
    May 23, 2010

    “Remember death is not the only outcome. Other outcomes are permanent neurological damage at least one out of a thousand cases.”

    Exactly, it’s called autism, except it’s one out of a hundred.

    If the measles virus caused autism, why wasn’t it rampant before the vaccine? You know, when it was a common disease? Oh, wait, apparently, vaccines cause it to bypass part of the immune system. Except, if you get sick, the virus obviously has to bypass the ENTIRE immune system, or you wouldn’t be ill…. Oh, never mind. I see the problem. I’m applying logic.

  45. #45 bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    Terrie, did I say the MMR caused autism? I am making a statement that autism is a permanent neurological injury that affects one in 100. Short of doing a brain biopsy I may never know know why my son had encephalitis and developed a fever and rash after his MMRV and his measles titers are 50 times the high norm. And of course, neither will anyone else, you included.

  46. #46 Kristen
    May 23, 2010

    I wonder what he will have to say, seeing as he will be giving the interview hours after losing his license.

    Seems to me most Doctors would be pretty upset if they could no longer practice. He is taking it in stride, almost as if he didn’t care. I know he is in the U.S. now (IIRC he was never licensed here), but you would think it stings just a little. I find it strange that he is feeling up to doing an interview.

    Of course his supporters are acting like rabid dogs, in contrast to his apparent ambivalence. I actually find the above threatening message fairly hilarious. Especially since they think we will be pissed off by their little Wakefield love fest.

  47. #47 Diane
    May 23, 2010

    And here it goes, another triple digit comment string, trying to show the trolls why their logic is wrong, only to see goalposts shifted, strawmen erected, and two people who don’t read each others’ posts, though they post under the same name.
    Don’t feed the bensmyson trolls!

  48. #48 Calli Arcale
    May 23, 2010

    I disagree with the statement that autism is a “permanent neurological injury”; it contradicts the evidence. Now, that isn’t to say no kids ever get brain damage; I know several rather poignant cases personally, including one who happens to *also* be autistic (though I believe the autism predated the injury in that case). And it is possible that some brain damaged kids get diagnosed improperly as autistic; I think there needs to be a clear diagnostic distinction between brain damage and the innate inability to form or trim the proper connections in the brains — there is clearly a very different etiology, which results in a very different prognosis and suggests different therapies.

    Be that as it may….

    For those who finger the MMR as a cause of autism and wish for it to be withdrawn, consider this: before widespread adoption of the MMR, one of the leading causes of mental retardation was measles encephalitis. Measles encephalitis was far more common, back in the day, than serious vaccine reactions are today. Considering that the MMR also protects against rubella, which was a leading cause of infant blindness and also its share of mental retardation and also a fair number of miscarriages (rubella isn’t bad for grown-ups, but it’s very nasty for fetuses), I’d say the MMR is preferable. It is tragic every time there is a serious adverse event, but as with every decision one makes in life (whether to vaccinate, whether to not vaccinate, whether to eat grains, whether to go on a road trip or fly for one’s vacation, whatever), there may sometimes be serious consequences that cannot be accurately foreseen.

    bensmyson, you didn’t say the MMR caused autism, but you very strongly implied it, or at least implied that vaccines cause all (or most) cases of autism, which is not at all supported by the evidence. Also, brain biopsy is very unlikely to reveal the cause of your son’s autism, especially if folks like Age of Autism continue to stand in the way of autism research that doesn’t happen to suit their preconceived notions. They’re not looking into morphological differences in the brain; all they’re looking for is evidence that can be used against vaccinations. If you are serious about finding out what’s caused your son’s autism, you need to get away from Age of Autism. They are not autism advocates; they are anti-vaccine advocates who are exploiting the autistic in pursuit of their favorite target, vaccines.

  49. #49 bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    “Don’t feed the bensmyson trolls!”

    The funny thing is Im not really that hungry, nothing any of you offer me is the least bit appealing. It’s the same old rancid pile of crap served body temperature.

    Why is it that a nation that has the highest vaccination rate in the world is 33rd in infant mortality and about the same for deaths in children under 5? Our kids have less of a likelihood of surviving than children in Cuba. Must be genetics huh.

  50. #50 Science Mom
    May 23, 2010

    I just love how steadfast and unbending you folk think Offit is, prior to his fame and glory to the pop culture world of wannabe science groupies he was quite the opposite in 2002 and 2004.

    http://i46.tinypic.com/24lt1y1.jpg

    And this proves what? Oh right, a paediatric infectious disease specialist and vaccine inventor understands the risks of vaccination and infectious diseases. Well blimey, sure got him on that one.

    What little I do know is that I believe the “vaccine” you are talking about was a treatment to an existing disease, I may be mistaken though.

    Of course you’re mistaken, I’m shocked. I doubt you have even bothered to read the patent application.

    Wakefield’s studies on children with gut issues has been well respected in the medical community, his patients have seen remarkable improvements and he weathers the storm admirably.

    What medical community would that be? The one (and only one) that doesn’t even recognise his diagnosis of ‘autistic enterocolitis’? What studies has he published regarding these remarkable improvements? ‘Weathers the storm admirably’ = lies consistently.

    Terrie, did I say the MMR caused autism? I am making a statement that autism is a permanent neurological injury that affects one in 100.

    Backpeddle much? Your response was to that regarding measles so either your comprehension leaves much to be desired, or you are being disingenuous. Of course there is option three which is both.

    Short of doing a brain biopsy I may never know know why my son had encephalitis and developed a fever and rash after his MMRV and his measles titers are 50 times the high norm. And of course, neither will anyone else, you included.

    Oh, would this be the same encephalitis that was diagnosed by you and not a physician and no report of any reaction? There is no ‘high norm’ for a measles titre and 50 times is meaningless.

  51. #51 Chris
    May 23, 2010

    Parental tag team of the poor child name Ben: you implied that the MMR caused autism. Where is your evidence? Where is your evidence that it has been happening at a rate of 1 out of 100 in the USA since 1971?

    PS: blue lettering is the link to your comment where you made that implication.

  52. #52 Chris
    May 23, 2010

    Oh, dear here he/she goes again… with

    Why is it that a nation that has the highest vaccination rate in the world is 33rd in infant mortality and about the same for deaths in children under 5?

    Possibly because of lack of universal health care. Or you can ask your close and personal friend Bernadine Healy.

    Now explain again the evidence your claims? Which MMR vaccine used in Wakefield’s now withdrawn study was implicated with autism? The one used in the UK before or after 1992?

  53. #53 D. C. Sessions
    May 23, 2010

    Why is it that a nation that has the highest vaccination rate in the world is 33rd in infant mortality and about the same for deaths in children under 5? Our kids have less of a likelihood of surviving than children in Cuba.

    Parents who give their kids kids Lupron and industrial chemicals which have never been tested for human safety.

  54. #54 A. Nuran
    May 23, 2010

    If anyone’s going to be there may I suggest this t-shirt?

  55. #55 bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    Hey Chris, I said “Terrie, did I say the MMR caused autism?” Give me a link to where I said that MMR causes autism. Im not that stupid. Implications? Did I imply it? Get your mom to read it to you.

    “Poor child” is right, thanks to his sacrifice so that your child has “herd immunity” whatever that is. I have no proof what the truth is to his autism, I do know however he is vaccine injured, that much is a proven fact. Just curious, what proof do you have that my son’s autism is not vaccine related?

    “Possibly because of lack of universal health care.”

    OMG, are you frickin serious? Oh that’s a good one! Really that’s epic, your mom should be so proud. Who would have thought? I think Im going to wet my pants, oh that’s hysterical! Priceless! Yummy….

  56. #56 maydijo
    May 23, 2010

    Funny, I just looked up the leading causes of childhood mortality in the US – autism isn’t even mentioned. Apparantly it’s injury from auto accidents, self-harm, drowning, falling, fire, and poisoning. (See http://www.mindfully.org/Health/2007/US-Death-Rate1may07.htm)

    The same link also says, “In the developing world, over half of under-5 deaths are caused by pneumonia, diarrhea or newborn conditions.” Pneumonia happens to be a fairly common side-effect of measles. At least some forms of diarrhea can be prevented with the rotavirus vaccines. Which is to say, vaccines save lives.

  57. #57 dedicated lurker
    May 23, 2010

    benismyson: Look at the nations with the lowest infant mortality rates. Almost all of them have a universal health care system.

    And there’s no “high norm” for measles titres. There’s no upper limit at all.

  58. #58 Chris
    May 23, 2010

    Mom and dad to Ben, did you miss the answer from your close and personal friend Bernadine Healy.

    Come on, read what she says. According to AoA you should believe everything written by her!

    Still waiting for the answer to which MMR vaccine was supposed to cause autism in Wakefield’s now withdrawn Lancet study… was it the one used in the UK before or after 1992?

  59. #59 Science Mom
    May 23, 2010

    “Poor child” is right, thanks to his sacrifice so that your child has “herd immunity” whatever that is. I have no proof what the truth is to his autism, I do know however he is vaccine injured, that much is a proven fact. Just curious, what proof do you have that my son’s autism is not vaccine related?

    Another herd immunity denier; even one of the most simple to grasp scientific concepts is lost on you. And how fascinating, you don’t have proof ‘what the truth is to his autism’ but you just KNOW he is ‘vaccine injured’. How is that a proven fact? Your mummy and daddy instinct?

  60. #60 bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    “And there’s no “high norm” for measles titres. There’s no upper limit at all.”

    Perhaps you should talk with the head of infectious disease at UNC and inform him of that.

    And maydijo, put down the glass of wine and think before you type.

    “Almost all of them have a universal health care system.”
    Sorry, who doesn’t have some degree of universal health care, the US has Medicaid so I guess in a way that crosses us off the list.

  61. #61 bensmyson
    May 23, 2010

    “How is that a proven fact?”

    Because 4 different doctors said so, including a seated board member of the AAP. It happens you know, people do get injured from vaccines, some even die. But they dont get autism, that’s not possible right, I mean no way, autism comes from um… it comes from.. what is it your science says causes autism?

  62. #62 augustine
    May 23, 2010

    “Pneumonia happens to be a fairly common side-effect of measles.”

    I thought pneumonia was because one didn’t get the seasonal influenza vaccine. Maybe the CDC and AAP should tout the MMR as the way to slash 40,000 Pneumonia deaths.

  63. #63 Chris
    May 23, 2010

    Just curious, what proof do you have that my son’s autism is not vaccine related?

    Oooh, you also live on Bizarro World. Never give evidence, but always demand of someone else. And then when it is offered call it pseudoscience. Plus it sounds you are not a big fan of prenatal care (something provided in countries with universal health care).

    My version of the Gish Gallop, be sure to answer with a refutaion on each and everyone in your own words (no cut and pasting!)… and also tell us which MMR vaccine is the one Wakefield found out caused autism, the one introduced before or after 1992. Also check here for another more snarky version is the following from a former biology instructor:

    Lack of Association between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy: A Case-Control Study.
    Hornig M et al.
    PLoS ONE 2008; 3(9): e3140 doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
    *Subjects: 25 children with autism and GI disturbances and 13 children with GI disturbances alone (controls)

    Measles Vaccination and Antibody Response in Autism Spectrum Disorders.
    Baird G et al.
    Arch Dis Child 2008; 93(10):832-7.
    Subjects: 98 vaccinated children aged 10-12 years in the UK with autism spectrum disorder (ASD); two control groups of similar age: 52 children with special educational needs but no ASD and 90 children in the typically developing group

    MMR-Vaccine and Regression in Autism Spectrum Disorders: Negative Results Presented from Japan.
    Uchiyama T et al.
    J Autism Dev Disord 2007; 37(2):210-7
    *Subjects: 904 children with autism spectrum disorder
    (Note: MMR was used in Japan only between 1989 and 1993.)

    No Evidence of Persisting Measles Virus in Peripheral Blood Mononuclear Cells from Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder.
    D’Souza Y et al.
    Pediatrics 2006; 118(4):1664-75
    *Subjects: 54 children with autism spectrum disorder and 34 developmentally normal children

    Immunizations and Autism: A Review of the Literature.
    Doja A, Roberts W.
    Can J Neurol Sci. 2006; 33(4):341-6
    *Literature review

    Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and Links with Immunizations.
    Fombonne E et al.
    Pediatrics. 2006;118(1):e139-50
    *Subjects: 27,749 children born from 1987 to 1998 attending 55 schools

    Relationship between MMR Vaccine and Autism.
    Klein KC, Diehl EB.
    Ann Pharmacother. 2004; 38(7-8):1297-300
    *Literature review of 10 studies

    Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism. Institute of Medicine.
    The National Academies Press: 2004
    (w w w . nap.edu/books/030909237X/html) *Literature review

    MMR Vaccination and Pervasive Developmental Disorders: A Case-Control Study.
    Smeeth L et al.
    Lancet 2004; 364(9438):963-9
    *Subjects: 1294 cases and 4469 controls

    Age at First Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination in Children with Autism and School-Matched Control Subjects: A Population-Based Study in Metropolitan Atlanta.
    DeStefano F et al. Pediatrics 2004; 113(2): 259-66
    *Subjects: 624 children with autism and 1,824 controls

    Prevalence of Autism and Parentally Reported Triggers in a North East London Population.
    Lingam R et al.
    Arch Dis Child 2003; 88(8):666-70
    *Subjects: 567 children with autistic spectrum disorder

    Neurologic Disorders after Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination.
    Makela A et al.
    Pediatrics 2002; 110:957-63
    *Subjects: 535,544 children vaccinated between November 1982 and June 1986 in Finland

    A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism.
    Madsen KM et al.
    N Engl J Med 2002; 347(19):1477-82
    *Subjects: All 537,303 children born 1/91–12/98 in Denmark

    Relation of Childhood Gastrointestinal Disorders to Autism: Nested Case Control Study Using Data from the UK General Practice Research Database.
    Black C et al.
    BMJ 2002; 325:419-21
    *Subjects: 96 children diagnosed with autism and 449 controls

    Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Bowel Problems or Developmental Regression in Children with Autism: Population Study.
    Taylor B et al.
    BMJ 2002; 324(7334):393-6
    *Subjects: 278 children with core autism and 195 with atypical autism

    No Evidence for a New Variant of Measles-Mumps-Rubella-Induced Autism.
    Fombonne E et al.
    Pediatrics 2001;108(4):E58
    *Subjects: 262 autistic children (pre- and post-MMR samples)

    Measles-Mumps-Rubella and Other Measles-Containing Vaccines Do Not Increase the Risk for Inflammatory Bowel Disease: A Case-Control Study from the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project.
    Davis RL et al.
    Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med 2001;155(3):354-9
    *Subjects: 155 persons with IBD with up to 5 controls each

    Time Trends in Autism and in MMR Immunization Coverage in California.
    Dales L et al.
    JAMA 2001; 285(9):1183-5
    *Subjects: Children born in 1980-94 who were enrolled in California kindergartens (survey samples of 600–1,900 children each year)

    Mumps, Measles, and Rubella Vaccine and the Incidence of Autism Recorded by General Practitioners: A Time Trend Analysis.
    Kaye JA et al.
    BMJ 2001; 322:460-63
    *Subjects: 305 children with autism

    Further Evidence of the Absence of Measles Virus Genome Sequence in Full Thickness Intestinal Specimens from Patients with Crohn’s Disease.
    Afzal MA, et al.
    J Med Virol 2000; 62(3):377-82
    *Subjects: Specimens from patients with Crohn’s disease

    Autism and Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccine: No Epidemiological Evidence for a Causal Association.
    Taylor B et al.
    Lancet 1999;353 (9169):2026-9
    *Subjects: 498 children with autism

    Absence of Detectable Measles Virus Genome Sequence in Inflammatory Bowel Disease Tissues and Peripheral Blood Lymphocytes.
    Afzal MA et al.
    J Med Virol 1998; 55(3):243-9
    *Subjects: 93 colonoscopic biopsies and 31 peripheral blood lymphocyte preparations

    No Evidence for Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccine-Associated Inflammatory Bowel Disease or Autism in a 14-year Prospective Study.
    Peltola H et al.
    Lancet 1998; 351:1327-8
    *Subjects: 3,000,000 doses of MMR vaccine

    Exposure to Measles in Utero and Crohn’s Disease: Danish Register Study.
    Nielsen LL et al.
    BMJ 1998; 316(7126):196-7
    *Subjects: 472 women with measles

    Immunocytochemical Evidence of Listeria, Escherichia coli, and Streptococcus Antigens in Crohn’s Disease.
    Liu Y et al.
    Gastroenterology 1995; 108(5):1396-1404
    *Subjects: Intestines and mesenteric lymph node specimens from 21 persons from families with a high frequency of Crohn’s disease

    Neuropsychological Performance 10 years after Immunization in Infancy with Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines
    Tozzi AE, Bisiacchi P, Tarantino V, De Mei B, D’Elia L, Chiarotti F, Salmaso S.
    Pediatrics, February 2009, Vol. 123(2):475-82

    Mercury Levels in Newborns and Infants after Receipt of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines
    Pichichero ME, Gentile A, Giglio N, et al
    Pediatrics, February 2008; 121(2) e208-214

    Mercury, Vaccines, And Autism: One Controversy, Three Histories
    Baker JP
    American Journal of Public Health, February 2008;98(2): 244-253

    Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to California’s Developmental Services System: Mercury in Retrograde
    Schechter R, Grether JK
    Arch Gen Psychiatry, January 2008; 65(1):19-24

    Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years
    Thompson WW, Price C, Goodson B, et al; Vaccine Safety Datalink Team
    N Engl J Med, Sep 27, 2007; 357(13):1281-1292

    Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and Links with Immunizations
    Fombonne E, Zakarian R, Bennett A, Meng L, McLean-Heywood D
    Pediatrics, July 2006, Vol. 118(1):e139-e150

    Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System Reporting Source: A Possible Source of Bias in Longitudinal Studies
    Goodman MJ, Nordin J
    Pediatrics, February 2006, Vol. 117(2):387-390

    MMR-Vaccine and Regression in Autism Spectrum Disorders: Negative Results Presented from Japan
    Authors: Uchiyama T, Kurosawa M, Inaba Y
    Source: J Autism Dev Disord, February 2007; 37(2):210-217

    No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study.
    Honda H, Shimizu Y, Rutter M.
    J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;46(6):572-9.

    Thimerosal in Vaccines: Balancing the Risk of Adverse Effects with the Risk of Vaccine-Preventable Disease
    Bigham M, Copes R
    Drug Safety, 2005, Vol. 28(2):89-101

    Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal
    Burbacher TM, Shen DD, Liberato N, Grant KS, Cernichiari E, Clarkson T
    National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, April 21, 2005

    Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Prospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association
    Heron J, Golding J, ALSPAC Study Team
    Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):577-583

    Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Retrospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association
    Andrews N, Miller E, Grant A, Stowe J, Osborne V, Taylor B
    Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):584-591

    Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data
    Parker SK, Schwartz B, Todd J, Pickering LK
    Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):793-804

    The Evidence for the Safety of Thimerosal in Newborn and Infant Vaccines
    Clements CJ
    Vaccine, May 7, 2004, Vol. 22(15-16):1854-1861

    Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: A Two-Phased Study of Computerized Health Maintenance Organization Databases
    Verstraeten T, Davis RL, DeStefano F, et al
    Pediatrics, November 2003, Vol. 112(5):1039-1048

    The Toxicology of Mercury–Current Exposures and Clinical Manifestations
    Clarkson TW, Magos L, Myers GJ
    New England Journal of Medicine, October 30, 2003, Vol. 349(18):1731-7

    Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism
    Hviid A, Stellfeld M, Wohlfahrt J, Melbye M
    Journal of the American Medical Association, October 1, 2003, Vol. 290(13):1763-6

    Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence from Danish Population-Based Data
    Madsen KM, Lauritsen MB, Pedersen CB, et al
    Pediatrics, Sept. 2003, Vol. 112(3 Pt 1):604-606

    Autism and Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines. Lack of Consistent Evidence for an Association
    Stehr-Green P, Tull P, Stellfeld M, Mortenson PB, Simpson D
    American Journal of Preventive Medicine, August 2003, Vol. 25(2):101-6

    Impact of the Thimerosal Controversy on Hepatitis B Vaccine Coverage of Infants Born to Women of Unknown Hepatitis B Surface Antigen Status in Michigan
    Biroscak BJ, Fiore AE, Fasano N, Fineis P, Collins MP, Stoltman G
    Pediatrics, June 2003, Vol. 111(6):e645-9

    Vaccine Safety Policy Analysis in Three European Countries: The Case of Thimerosal
    Freed GL, Andreae MC, Cowan AE, et al
    Health Policy, December 2002, Vol. 62(3):291-307

    Mercury Concentrations and Metabolism in Infants Receiving Vaccines Containing Thimerosal: A Descriptive Study
    Pichichero ME, Cernichiari E, Lopreiato J, Treanor J
    The Lancet, November 30, 2002, Vol. 360:1737-1741

    An Assessment of Thimerosal Use in Childhood Vaccines
    Ball LK, Ball R, Pratt RD
    Pediatrics, May 2001, Vol. 107(5):1147-1154

  64. #64 Dedj
    May 23, 2010

    “Did I imply it?”

    Yes, very clearly in fact. Any reasonable person would have thought that’s what you were saying.

    So this means one of three things:

    you are either lying about what you said earlier
    you are too incompetant to understand how what you said could have been read that way despite the major contextual clues that it would have been read that way
    you are both posting under the same name again and are either too lazy to check what the other has said or too inconsiderate to bother telling each other

    Either way, you got caught out.

  65. #65 Science Mom
    May 23, 2010

    “How is that a proven fact?”

    Because 4 different doctors said so, including a seated board member of the AAP. It happens you know, people do get injured from vaccines, some even die. But they dont get autism, that’s not possible right, I mean no way, autism comes from um… it comes from.. what is it your science says causes autism?

    You are full of shite. Not even a visit to a physician after this so-called encephalitis event post MMR-V vaccination, no NVICP claim and now your story has been inflated to this. You are both, a textbook example of the memory tossed salad of the cult of AoA.

    People like you aren’t interested in valid autism research that is elucidating more and more genes and effects of in-utero environment. Fine, don’t be interested, but you don’t get to make up your own facts.

  66. #66 augustine
    May 23, 2010

    They think they are scientific and evidence based but they ALL have an a priori. They don’t believe vaccines injure anyone. Oh they might believe it exists epidemiolgy wise but any real case is a myth.There is no way YOUR son was injured because well, um, the “science says its so”. We’ll never know the true damage that vaccines cause because the ones who are supposed to look out for our children are not objective.

  67. #67 Chris
    May 23, 2010

    Because 4 different doctors said so, including a seated board member of the AAP.

    So you actually got compensation in the courts? Odd, only those who had other medical issues other than autism has had that occur.

    Still, that would be only one out of over 5000. How is that one in a hundred again?

    Still, which MMR vaccine did Wakefield show was the cause of autism, the one introduced into the UK before or after 1992?

  68. #68 squirrelelite
    May 23, 2010

    I got curious about measles titers/titres and did a quick search. I thought these articles were of some interest:

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4DNW4HM-5&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F25%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1345620790&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=354e6425328eb380e6b5ff48aec6e054

    The abstract is a little vague, but apparently they did a small study comparing patients with congenital t cell defect and normal controls. They concluded:

    “MMR vaccine is immunogenic and can be safely used in patients with DiGeorge anomaly, so preventing severe complication due to wild virus infection.”

    This was an old study (1983), but it shows how long people have been studying trying to find the optimum age to vaccinate against measles.

    http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/12/3/340

  69. #69 Dedj
    May 23, 2010

    For a start, as pointed out, the USA has the broadest definition ‘birth’ and ‘mortality’ around, and applies it significantly more rigidly than any other known system.

    “Sorry, who doesn’t have some degree of universal health care, the US has Medicaid so I guess in a way that crosses us off the list.”

    Not unless you’ve paid zero attention to the many many many criticisms of the Medicaid system.

    Not only does it have eligibility criteria that are far more strict than the FACS-style criteria in most universal health care systems, but it ‘may’ only cover ‘some’ bills.

    Your medicaid claim makes no account of: the huge disparity between states, the huge disparity between ethnic groups. If everyone was receiving above and beyond the international standard of care, you wouldn’t expect some states and some ethnicities to have such an incongruent and 2nd World standard of healthcare.

  70. #70 a-non
    May 23, 2010

    “And there’s no “high norm” for measles titres. There’s no upper limit at all.”

    Perhaps you should talk with the head of infectious disease at UNC and inform him of that.

    I just sent Myron Cohen, the director of the center for infectious diseases at the University of North Carolina, an email asking that very question. More to the point – whether he thinks that the 2008 study from Baird, et al., which posits that there is no link between measles titres and autism, is a quality study or not.

    And for further discussion on this very topic:
    http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=172

  71. #71 FreeSpeaker
    May 23, 2010

    For years, the woo meisters called Steve Barrett ‘de-licensed’ bacause he allowed his license to expire when he retired. Now we have a real live one…St. Andy De-Licensed Wakefield.

  72. #72 Science Mom
    May 24, 2010

    “And there’s no “high norm” for measles titres. There’s no upper limit at all.”

    Perhaps you should talk with the head of infectious disease at UNC and inform him of that.

    Intentionally vague so we should be intimidated into silence? Well which ‘head’ of infectious diseases at UNC? You see there are several chiefs and directors of various infectious disease units at UNC. Medical School? Public Health? Which one? Oh yes, and in an earlier exchange with me, you stated that Ben’s measles titre was ’15 times the norm’, now it is ’50 times’. Really, you two should compare notes.

  73. #73 maydijo
    May 24, 2010

    I’m sorry, what part of my post did you think was written under the influence? I provided evidence – far more than you have done with anything you’ve written here. Sure, you can call into question the validity of my evidence (although the stats themselves, if you follow the footnote, come from the UN) but it’s still a damn site better than anything you’ve provided.

    But because you don’t like it, you think that gives you permission to libel me? I imagine the only answer you’d like is, well, total agreement with your crack-pot theories.

    Sorry, honey, the only way that would happen would be if I were completely sh!t-faced. No, scratch that – the only way that would happen is if my blood alcohol level was so high, I was already lying dead in a pile of my own vomit.

    Wrong is wrong. And the last time I looked it up in my dictionary there was a citation: “See also: Bensmyson”

  74. #74 Chris
    May 24, 2010

    maydijo, welcome to Bizarro World.

    Though, in truth your URL was a bit wonky. But all it took to fix was to remove a trailing parenthesis. I doubt the parental units posting as Ben’s parents even bothered to click on the link.

  75. #75 maydijo
    May 24, 2010

    No no no – Don’t call it Bizarro World. That was a brilliant episode of Seinfeld. Can’t we come up with some other name that won’t besmirch the genius of Jerry, Elaine, Kramer, and George?

  76. #76 Chris
    May 24, 2010

    Here is an interesting set of articles: Measles Week. It is by a soon to be minion of the CDC. But don’t worry, he is Canadian and that guarantees he is a good guy. ;-) (I can do that because I am married to a Canadian!).

    One of my favorite lines:

    Tsu Do Nimh [if that’s his real name]

    Seriously, try to say Tsu Do Nimh out loud!

  77. #77 Chris
    May 24, 2010

    Aack! Maydijo! Not Seinfeld! It references Superman comics! Click the link.

    Is nothing sacred anymore?

  78. #78 maydijo
    May 24, 2010

    I clicked the link, but Superman only has relevance to me because Jerry loved it. If it wasn’t for the Seinfeld connection I’d be like, “Superwha?” (Well, not quite, I’ve seen the films, under duress.)

  79. #79 NZ Sceptic
    May 24, 2010

    I’d say Wakefield has about as much chance of rehabilitaing himself as the Duchess of York right now!

    If anyone has a spare 30 minutes here’s a link to the excellent Paul Offit interview Radio NZ ran here last weekend. http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/sat/2010/05/22/paul_offit_vaccination

  80. #80 Rima E. Laibow, MD
    May 24, 2010

    Questions for the Science Deniers, that is, those people who refuse to examine the simple, but urgently important question, “How do you know (or why do you believe) that vaccines protect against disease when:
    1. No vaccine has ever been evaluated through a double blind, placebo controlled study to determine if it actually has any preventive or mitigating effect on the disease of interest
    2. Epidemiologists can successfully predict pandemics, epidemics and outbreaks of any given disease by tracking vaccination programs: the larger the program, the more widespread the outbreak of the disease.
    3. Although US law requires all vaccines to be tested for safety and efficacy, no influenza vaccine has ever been so tested
    4. Adjuvants like aluminum, squalene and other oil and water adjuvants, etc., are known to be toxic to multiple organ systems but are never tested for safety before they are added to vaccines
    5. Preservatives like Polysorbate 80 (also known as “Tween 80″) are associated with infertility
    6. Numerous studies show that influenza shots increase chances of dying from any cause by 3 fold, increase the development of serious conditions such as asthma which lead to hospitalization by 6 fold and, if given consecutively for 5 years, increase the chance of developing Alzheimer’s Disease by 600% although they have been shown not to provide any protection against flu whatsoever
    7. Virtually all epidemics and outbreaks of communicable diseases in the modern world occur in fully vaccinated populations.

    The scientific evidence is clear while the hysteria is, in fact, on the part of the Science Deniers, that is, those who support the untested, unsafe, unnecessary and unsound practice of vaccination.
    For further information, please read my article, “The Syringe of Death” which details the fraudulent history of vaccination, starting with Edward Jenner’s publication of articles detailing the results of studies before the studies were complete, continuing through the epidemic of syphilis created by widespread vaccination of healthy babies with the pus of “cow pox” lesions which were, in fact, syphilitic lesions in the UK, but leprosy lesion in the British tropical empire (where a leprosy epidemic ensued), the shameful whitewash of the cause of that epidemic by the British Parliament and the continuation of the deceit to create dangerous and unnecessary, but astonishingly profitable, vaccinations by the dozens today.

    IF you are interested in science and truth, the conclusion is inevitable: at the very least, one must pause to consider why the science supports the dangers of vaccines while public policy supports its continued and escalating use. The answer is not pretty, but then, greed and callous disregard for the truth rarely are.

    Oh, Dr. Wakefield? His article was lauded by the medical and scientific world until the vaccine makers realized that it was having a profound impact on their sales. At that point, suddenly, Dr. Wakefield and his colleagues went from publishing a brilliant and tremendously important article to the authors of “shoddy research” and “quackery”. Amazing how scientific standards shifted upwards so radically and rapidly!

    By the way, Dr. Wakefield will be my guest on the Dr. Rima Reports, May 30 at http://www.BlogTalkRadio.com/FreedomizerRadio 10 PM to Midnight (Eastern Time).

    I do hope you will join us. I have no doubt whatsoever, having read your article, that you will find a great deal of information that you are clearly unaware of in that interview.

    Yours in health and freedom,
    Dr. Rima
    Rima E. Laibow, MD
    Medical Director
    Natural Solutions Foundation
    http://www.HealthFreedomUSA.org

  81. #81 NZ Sceptic
    May 24, 2010

    ‘The Syringe of Death? Heaven help us! If the former Dr Wakefield is really appearing on your show ‘Dr’ Rima, it sets the seal on his opt-out of anything remotely resembling science. From now on, I predict, he will continue frantically aligning himself with the the most extreme bastions of woo. I guess you’re the only ones who will have him!

    NB: I guess we should refer to him as Mr Wakefield as of today.

  82. #82 Omri
    May 24, 2010

    Dr. Rima, (if you really are a doctor):

    Dr. Wakefield purposely misrepresented the medical history of at least two of the experimental subjects in his paper, as confirmed later by interviews with the subjects’ parents.

    He employed painful, invasive procedures on the subjects despite no medical indication for them, even though autists are known to be prone to severe anxiety attacks in response to such experiences (severe as in hyperventilation leading to hypokalemia).

    He then put his results through a PCR assay so badly designed no undergraduate student would pass his class if he did such an assay for the intro-to-biotech class.

    All in all, that puts his research in the “Not Even Wrong” category. And given the nonsense you just posted here, makes him fine company for someone like you.

  83. #83 Omri
    May 24, 2010

    Waidaminute, you think Edward Jenner was in on this vaccination conspiracy?

    Why not throw in Cotton Mather and his slave Onesimus while you’re at it? You should talk to Dan Brown about this! There’s at least a full length novel dying to be written here.

  84. #84 The Gregarious Misanthrope
    May 24, 2010

    I had thought the the bensmyson wonder twins were a little less strident than they appear today. I have to wonder if that is an after-effect of being able to see one’s duodenum.

    Looking forward to hear in the AM that Wakefield has been “struck off.”

    FWIW, I think the official term should be “Orac’s orcs.” The orcs were used to wage warfare, not mearly harass the random bridge-crosser.

  85. #85 NZ Sceptic
    May 24, 2010

    What I find most utterly stunning right now is the fact that the star of this YouTube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTHDKNEx3lo can go on, with a straight face to call his own website ‘Callous Disregard’! How has ANYBODY been taken in by this man? It’s a cult situation and it’s scary!

  86. #86 autiemum
    May 24, 2010

    81 — I agree with you. This is scary. The level of paranoia and hysteria and denial is scary.

    Not all the mums wound up in this are daft or paranoid (because I know a few of them) but they will be very agitated and upset and feel rejected and attacked (I know that these feelings are deluded)

    But the danger is that someone somewhere will do something dangerous to themselves and/or their child

  87. #87 szwagier.myopenid.com
    May 24, 2010

    As one of my facebook friends said:

    “Goodbye to loathsome corrupt charlatan Andrew Wakefield, or to give him his full medical title, Andrew Wakefield.”

  88. #88 pv
    May 24, 2010

    Dr Rima wrote:
    “Oh, Dr. Wakefield? His article was lauded by the medical and scientific world until the vaccine makers realized that it was having a profound impact on their sales.”

    But this is not true, as is the rest of that ridiculous post, and Dr Rima is clearly a pathological liar. A profiteering scumbag of a charlatan who considers it a duty to fleece the vulnerable. Prison is too good for the Dr Rimas of this world.

  89. #89 MI Dawn
    May 24, 2010

    Well, Dr Rima Laibow IS a licensed doctor in New York. She has no discipinary actions as far back as 1990 in that state. She is not licensed in New Jersey, where she lives. She seems to have had some fun in college and medical school – changing colleges a few times, then changing from Wayne State Medical School to Albert Einstein Medical School (why did you leave Michigan for New York, Dr Rima?)

    She is board certified in psychiatry. She has no training, as far as her resume shows, in neurology, infectious disease, or other diciplines (except for what ever she got in medical school or perhaps some CEUs).

    Given her resume information, I can’t say I’m overly impressed with ANY of her credentials, since I can point to a family member with almost all the same certifications and credentials. And my family member would not present xyrself in this manner.

    Oh, and Dr Rima and her husband established their “natural solutions foundation to apparently fleece the public. I always avoid sites where the first thing you see is “send me money so we can continue out work”. Come on, Dr Rima. Have a little class and move it down the page or onto another tab.

  90. #90 MI Dawn
    May 24, 2010

    Wow. Wrote a long comment, thought I’d kept it clean, and it went into moderation approval. What did I do? No links in it.

  91. #91 pv
    May 24, 2010

    Dr Rima… Dreamer!

    Do we have a troll who thinks infant health is a laughing matter. Just asking.

  92. #92 SC (Salty Current)
    May 24, 2010

    Lauer’s doing a pretty good job. Wakefield’s lying.

  93. #93 Science Mom
    May 24, 2010

    I just love how steadfast and unbending you folk think Offit is, prior to his fame and glory to the pop culture world of wannabe science groupies he was quite the opposite in 2002 and 2004.

    http://i46.tinypic.com/24lt1y1.jpg

    And this proves what? Oh right, a paediatric infectious disease specialist and vaccine inventor understands the risks of vaccination and infectious diseases. Well blimey, sure got him on that one.

    What little I do know is that I believe the “vaccine” you are talking about was a treatment to an existing disease, I may be mistaken though.

    Of course you’re mistaken, I’m shocked. I doubt you have even bothered to read the patent application.

    Wakefield’s studies on children with gut issues has been well respected in the medical community, his patients have seen remarkable improvements and he weathers the storm admirably.

    What medical community would that be? The one (and only one) that doesn’t even recognise his diagnosis of ‘autistic enterocolitis’? What studies has he published regarding these remarkable improvements? ‘Weathers the storm admirably’ = lies consistently.

    Terrie, did I say the MMR caused autism? I am making a statement that autism is a permanent neurological injury that affects one in 100.

    Backpeddle much? Your response was to that regarding measles so either your comprehension leaves much to be desired, or you are being disingenuous. Of course there is option three which is both.

    Short of doing a brain biopsy I may never know know why my son had encephalitis and developed a fever and rash after his MMRV and his measles titers are 50 times the high norm. And of course, neither will anyone else, you included.

    Oh, would this be the same encephalitis that was diagnosed by you and not a physician and no report of any reaction? There is no ‘high norm’ for a measles titre and 50 times is meaningless.

  94. #94 bensmyson
    May 24, 2010

    When you cant prove anything you attack me, how utterly tacky. Prove to me that autism is not caused by vaccines. I have said I can not prove vaccines caused my son’s autism. Have no intention to try sand do so. I also can not prove he contracted the measles from the vaccine without a brain biopsy. I can however prove an injury and I have filed a claim on the behalf of my son with the NVICP and maybe perhaps if we all live long enough we will see a small piece of justice served.

    “I just sent Myron Cohen, the director of the center for infectious diseases at the University of North Carolina, an email asking that very question. More to the point – whether he thinks that the 2008 study from Baird, et al., which posits that there is no link between measles titres and autism, is a quality study or not.”

    You really need to learn how to read, did I say measles caused my son’s autism? My son’s measles titers are only an indication that he is immune to the measles or HAS the measles which may possibly be the cause of his encephalopathy.

  95. #95 bensmyson
    May 24, 2010

    “Oh, would this be the same encephalitis that was diagnosed by you and not a physician and no report of any reaction? There is no ‘high norm’ for a measles titre and 50 times is meaningless.”

    You are 100% wrong about all the above. I believe your credibility is resting on some mighty wobbly legs.

  96. #96 JohnV
    May 24, 2010

    @Dr. Rima:

    “”How do you know (or why do you believe) that vaccines protect against disease when:”

    Well gee, lets ask around and try and find someone who had small pox in the last 30 years.

    Why do you go work on that now and then come back here and report your findings once you’ve found someone, ok?

  97. #97 Science Mom
    May 24, 2010

    “Oh, would this be the same encephalitis that was diagnosed by you and not a physician and no report of any reaction? There is no ‘high norm’ for a measles titre and 50 times is meaningless.”

    You are 100% wrong about all the above. I believe your credibility is resting on some mighty wobbly legs.

    Of course you need to believe that but your blog entries and comments in various places belie that. You still haven’t answered all of the questions I have posed to you and this is one of them. Hand-waving isn’t an acceptable answer.

  98. #98 Broken Link
    May 24, 2010

    I guess it’s going on right now, but the “WAKE-UP TO WAKEFIELD!!! ~ RALLY/MONDAY/8AM/NYC” has only 14 confirmed guests on Facebook.

  99. #99 Broken Link
    May 24, 2010

    And not surprisingly, Wakefield has been struck off. He’s no longer “Dr. Wakefield”. Link on my ‘nym.

  100. #100 Todd W.
    May 24, 2010

    @Rima Laibow

    1. No vaccine has ever been evaluated through a double blind, placebo controlled study to determine if it actually has any preventive or mitigating effect on the disease of interest

    Did a search on PudMed for “vaccine double-blind placebo” and the first result is a study on zoster vaccine. You do know what PubMed is, right?

    3. Although US law requires all vaccines to be tested for safety and efficacy, no influenza vaccine has ever been so tested

    You have evidence of this, yes? I chose a flu vaccine at random from FDA’s listing of approved vaccines. The package insert for Fluvirin has information from the clinical trials testing safety and efficacy. Is it your assertion, then, that the makers of Fluvirin are lying and made up their information out of whole cloth?

    4. Adjuvants like aluminum, squalene and other oil and water adjuvants, etc., are known to be toxic to multiple organ systems but are never tested for safety before they are added to vaccines

    Well, squalene isn’t used in the U.S., but has been used safely for over a decade in Europe. It was recently used in Canada with no adverse events reported. Squalene is also used in cosmetics and supplements. Aluminum, in sufficiently high doses, can cause neurological damage. However, those doses are orders of magnitude greater than what is found in vaccines in the form of aluminum salts. I’m curious, though, what your stance is on aluminum in foods like bananas or breast milk? What about aluminum in the dust you breathe every day? Do you have some evidence that aluminum (in the same form of salts used in vaccines) or squalene, in the amounts found in vaccines, when given in the same manner as the vaccines that contain them, cause neurological damage?

    5. Preservatives like Polysorbate 80 (also known as “Tween 80″) are associated with infertility

    At what levels do they cause infertility? What is the method of exposure? IIRC, and someone correct me if I am wrong, they are used in the manufacture of the vaccine, but are removed from the final product.

    6. Numerous studies show that influenza shots increase chances of dying from any cause by 3 fold, increase the development of serious conditions such as asthma which lead to hospitalization by 6 fold and, if given consecutively for 5 years, increase the chance of developing Alzheimer’s Disease by 600% although they have been shown not to provide any protection against flu whatsoever

    Citations, please, from quality studies published in well-respected journals.

    7. Virtually all epidemics and outbreaks of communicable diseases in the modern world occur in fully vaccinated populations.

    Again, citation please. Interestingly, many of the outbreaks have their origin in a patient who was not vaccinated. For example, the recent outbreaks in NJ (mumps) and California (measles) began with unvaccinated children. In Minnesota, a HiB outbreak began with an unvaccinated child. In 2006 in Germany, a large measles outbreak the hospitalized a lot of people and resulted in the deaths of three infants from measles encephalitis began with unvaccinated individuals. Links are available at antiantivax.flurf.net (linked through my name).

    Your screed is on the order of the whole “9 Questions” idiocy that Mark Crislip recently addressed over at Science-Based Medicine in his article “Nine Questions, Nine Answers”.

  101. #101 dt
    May 24, 2010

    “No vaccine has ever been evaluated through a double blind, placebo controlled study”

    ??????

    “Dr” Rima, you are having a laugh. If you are prepared to lie so blatantly about the first claim on your list, can we hope for any truth, even a tiny smidgeon, in the others?

  102. #102 Catherina
    May 24, 2010

    Wakefield is still “Dr. Wakefield”. They stripped him off his license to practice, but they did not take his academic grade from him.

  103. #103 Scott
    May 24, 2010

    1. No vaccine has ever been evaluated through a double blind, placebo controlled study to determine if it actually has any preventive or mitigating effect on the disease of interest

    As Todd noted, 5 seconds of PubMed searching proves this to be utterly false.

    2. Epidemiologists can successfully predict pandemics, epidemics and outbreaks of any given disease by tracking vaccination programs: the larger the program, the more widespread the outbreak of the disease.

    Evidence please. You will in particular need to successfully address the confounder that the larger the outbreak, the larger the public health response (including vaccination) is expected to be.

    3. Although US law requires all vaccines to be tested for safety and efficacy, no influenza vaccine has ever been so tested

    PubMed search for “influenza vaccine safety” produces 972 hits. Of the first 10, 4 were clinical trials of safety; 1 was a CDC guidance; 4 mentioned the effect of safety concerns on uptake; the last had to do with management of Crohn’s disease (influenza vaccination is apparently a good idea for those with Crohn’s according to the abstract). Similarly “influenza vaccine efficacy” produces 1329 hits; 5 of the first 10 were clinical trials for efficacy.

    4. Adjuvants like aluminum, squalene and other oil and water adjuvants, etc., are known to be toxic to multiple organ systems but are never tested for safety before they are added to vaccines

    “aluminum adjuvant safety” 213 hits, “squalene adjuvant safety” 48.

    5. Preservatives like Polysorbate 80 (also known as “Tween 80″) are associated with infertility

    Citation needed.

    6. Numerous studies show that influenza shots increase chances of dying from any cause by 3 fold, increase the development of serious conditions such as asthma which lead to hospitalization by 6 fold and, if given consecutively for 5 years, increase the chance of developing Alzheimer’s Disease by 600% although they have been shown not to provide any protection against flu whatsoever

    Citation needed; particularly you will need to account for the confounder that the influenza vaccine is particularly recommended for the elderly who are naturally at greater risk for many things.

    7. Virtually all epidemics and outbreaks of communicable diseases in the modern world occur in fully vaccinated populations.

    Citation needed; in particular with respect to whether the populations in question were fully vaccinated against that disease.

    Out of 7, 3 are conclusively false to the point of stupidity; the remaining 4 have no supporting evidence.

  104. #104 G.Shelley
    May 24, 2010

    Yeah, he was struck off. so is no loner allowed to practice medicine in the uk
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/may/24/mmr-doctor-andrew-wakefield-struck-off

  105. #105 llewelly
    May 24, 2010

    I wonder if it would piss off the Orac’s trolls if we gave Wakefield an honorary Knighthood?

    And there is a knighthood perfectly suited for “Sir” Andrew Wakefield.

  106. #106 The Gregarious Misanthrope
    May 24, 2010

    @bensmyson

    You have been directed to innumerable studies, even on this thread, showing not only that there is no causation of autism by vaccines, but that there isn’t even correlation. Truly, you are the Black Knight (see Monty Python and the Holy Grail). There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    I’ll accept at face value that your son was profoundly injured by his vaccination. Serious complications are known to occur in about 1 in 1,000,000 vaccinations, but that is 3 orders of magnitude less than taking your chances with measles alone and history has shown that virtually everyone got measles over a lifetime. You and your son have won the un-lottery.

    I note that despite your demands for proof, you provide none of your own for either your theories about vaccines and autism or, for that matter, even your son’s condition. Mind you, I’m not calling you a liar, but it is classic anti-vax rhetoric to demand proof of vaccine safety and efficacy then to deny the legitimacy of anything proferred. While, at the same time, the anti-vax crowd seems incapable of offering proof that we’d be better off without vaccines.

    At the end of the day, this verbal jousting isn’t going to drop the scales from your eyes. No, the hope is that those on the fence, lurking will see these issues more clearly.

    I hope you are successful with the compensation issue. I have two kids of my own and I can scarcely imagine the emotional and financial toll of caring for a child like Ben.

  107. #107 Calli Arcale
    May 24, 2010

    Rima E Laibow @ 80:
    1. No vaccine has ever been evaluated through a double blind, placebo controlled study to determine if it actually has any preventive or mitigating effect on the disease of interest

    A) As you know, being a doctor, double-blind placebo-controlled trials are not the only way to study medicines. B) See above: vaccines are indeed tested through double-blind placebo-controlled trials. Granted, they don’t deliberately expose everyone to the pathogen (at least, not any more) as deliberately killing people is frowned upon. Instead, they make sure the vaccine does what it was meant to do: produce the right antibodies.

    2. Epidemiologists can successfully predict pandemics, epidemics and outbreaks of any given disease by tracking vaccination programs: the larger the program, the more widespread the outbreak of the disease.

    This is true in certain circumstances, and the reason for this is very interesting. When a disease is endemic, cases are usually (though not always) mild, and nearly everyone gets exposed and develops immunity. Herd immunity is produced, but at a steep price: there will be a serious cases every now and again, and some will die. If the pathogen is extirpated from the population, there is no more constant exposure. No more natural boosters to immunity. In this situation, if the artificial herd immunity produced by vaccination drops just a little, and then the disease is reintroduced to the unvaccinated (or those who were unlucky enough to no longer have sufficient immunity, as adults don’t usually get booster shots), then it will spread like wildfire among the unvaccinated and the undervaccinated.

    Vaccination isn’t the only way to stop constant low-level exposure; turns out, good sanitation does that also. So the price of eradicating cholera was more vicious outbreaks of things like polio.

    3. Although US law requires all vaccines to be tested for safety and efficacy, no influenza vaccine has ever been so tested

    This is completely untrue. Even the rushed 2009 H1N1 vaccine underwent safety and efficacy testing; it was administered to test patients, against a placebo injection. I read the study.

    4. Adjuvants like aluminum, squalene and other oil and water adjuvants, etc., are known to be toxic to multiple organ systems but are never tested for safety before they are added to vaccines

    First of all, every additive has been tested for safety in one way or another. Second, I question your medical degree if you think squalene is known to be toxic to multiple organ systems. You should be aware that it is a normal constitutent of the human body.

    What is a “water adjuvant”, by the way? Are you suggesting water could be toxic? Well, it can, but only in ridiculous quantities. Or are you suggesting perhaps a homeopathic toxin?

    5. Preservatives like Polysorbate 80 (also known as “Tween 80″) are associated with infertility

    First, I’d like your evidence that the quantities in vaccines (which are negligible, as it is removed during manufacturing) will cause infertility. I’m sure massive quantities would cause harm, but we’re not talking about massive quantities. We’re talking about a few molecules.

    Second, it’s not used as a preservative. It’s a surfactant. Do you really want people to think you know what you’re talking about? If so, you might want to first find out what you’re talking about, becuase you clearly don’t know.

    6. Numerous studies show that influenza shots increase chances of dying from any cause by 3 fold, increase the development of serious conditions such as asthma which lead to hospitalization by 6 fold and, if given consecutively for 5 years, increase the chance of developing Alzheimer’s Disease by 600% although they have been shown not to provide any protection against flu whatsoever

    If they’re so numerous, surely you could list these studies. I would think they’d be quite remarkable.

    7. Virtually all epidemics and outbreaks of communicable diseases in the modern world occur in fully vaccinated populations.

    This is patently untrue. While cases of disease will tend to be more significant among a vaccinated population, it is mostly the *unvaccinated* who contract the illness. A recent measles epidemic in Britain struck 80% unvaccinated people and 20% vaccinated, which definitely suggests a protective effect. The polio epidemic in Nigeria struck in a region which had explicitly refused to be vaccinated. I really have to question your medical degree if you this ignorant.

    Oh, Dr. Wakefield? His article was lauded by the medical and scientific world until the vaccine makers realized that it was having a profound impact on their sales.

    The one who had signed to make his monovalent measles vaccine didn’t seem particularly bothered by it. Why are you defending him? Even if you do believe vaccines are evil, you ought to be shocked by his behavior, because it was grossly unethical. Or do you think it’s okay to perform colonoscopies and lumbar puncture out of little more than scientific curiosity?

  108. #108 Science Mom
    May 24, 2010

    I’ll accept at face value that your son was profoundly injured by his vaccination. Serious complications are known to occur in about 1 in 1,000,000 vaccinations, but that is 3 orders of magnitude less than taking your chances with measles alone and history has shown that virtually everyone got measles over a lifetime. You and your son have won the un-lottery.

    @Gregarious Misanthrope, you are being understandable generous but bensmyson is a textbook example of the dishonesty, cognitive dissonance and memory re-framing inherent to the AoA cult: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/03/thorsen_wakefield_fine_art_of_distraction.php#comment-2350582

    Bensmyson’s stories changes from year to year, comment to comment: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2009/10/amy-wallace-discusses-the-responses-she-got-to-the-wired-article/?comments=true

    Last year, measles vaccine virus caused this undiagnosed encephalitis and a titre of ’15x the norm’. This year, it’s the varicella vaccine and the measles titre is now ’50x the norm’. There is also no NVICP claim because there is no vaccine injury.

  109. #109 JohnV
    May 24, 2010

    “What is a “water adjuvant”, by the way? Are you suggesting water could be toxic? Well, it can, but only in ridiculous quantities. Or are you suggesting perhaps a homeopathic toxin?”

    In Bizzaro world, water is an adjuvant and is the primary foe of bizzaro-homeopathy.

    Next time I shave I’ll leave a goatee so I can pretend to be bizzaro-JohnV and speak out against vaccines due to their inclusion of water.

  110. #110 Emily
    May 24, 2010

    Chris, just to clarify, I am not a “former biology instructor,” I am a former assistant professor of biological sciences and former research scientist. I do, however, remain snarky. That said, nice list of papers there.

  111. #111 Chris
    May 24, 2010

    Terribly sorry, Emily. I misread (and it was late), so I made a big goof. I appreciate the clarification. You were a real scientist, unlike some of those who claim to write science articles at AoA.

    And I did really like the article you work on the world wide conspiracy!

  112. #112 Militant Agnostic
    May 24, 2010

    I can’t remember where I found it, but it looks like the Polysorbate 80 causing infertility meme comes from a study where rats were fed a diet consisting of 20% Polysorbate 80. At this level it reduced infertility. At 5% there was no detectable effect on fertility. The extrapolation of this to The H1N1 vaccine will STERILIZE US ALL!!! is a prime example of how anti-vaxers abuse evidence.

    I think “Dr” Rima E. Laibow needs to step away from the ether.

    There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge, and I knew we’d get into that rotten stuff pretty soon.

    — Hunter S. Thompson

  113. #113 Pablo
    May 24, 2010

    Oh, Dr. Wakefield? His article was lauded by the medical and scientific world until the vaccine makers realized that it was having a profound impact on their sales.

    I’m wondering, was this before or after all his co-authors jumped ship?

    Militant Agnostic – a 20% Polysorbate 80 diet “reduced infertility”?

  114. #114 Emily
    May 24, 2010

    No worries, Chris. Just clinging to my glorious past.

    Speaking of the TODAY Show…
    Are you a fan of science? Do you rely on scientific data in your decision making? Don’t let science be the loser here. Vote in the Today Show “Moms” (why only moms? Dads? Autistic people? Do you not count?) poll asking if vaccines are related to autism. Why? Because as of this posting, almost 55% of respondents to this admittedly unscientific poll are answering in the affirmative.

    http://community.todaymoms.com/_question/2010/05/24/4342399-do-you-think-vaccines-are-related-to-autism

  115. #115 Calli Arcale
    May 24, 2010

    I can’t remember where I found it, but it looks like the Polysorbate 80 causing infertility meme comes from a study where rats were fed a diet consisting of 20% Polysorbate 80.

    Holy crap! 20% polysorbate 80? At that point, I’d almost suspect malnutrition to be the cause of reduced infertility…. Thanks. I had wondered where that came from.

    (I do wonder whether Dr Laibow will at least notice the actual use of the stuff in vaccine production; I mean, if she can’t even be bothered to find out how it’s used, how can anything she says on the subject be taken the least bit seriously?)

  116. #116 Pablo
    May 24, 2010

    Calli – that will depend on whether the website she was parroting notices.

    It’s not like she is basing this on any of her own insight or knowledge.

  117. #117 Suzanne
    May 24, 2010

    I couldn’t stay out of the comments once I visited bensmyson’s blog. Dad wrote “feels a lot of mom’s concerns are prompted from reading on internet. told her there is more bad information about autism than substantiated information.” I guess he forgot.

  118. #118 Joe Fatzen
    May 24, 2010

    @80

    Shockingly familiar layout. I am shocked! Repetition? From the likes of your ilk? Shocked!

    http://www.quackcast.com/spodcasts/files/podcast_45.mp3

  119. #119 mikro.bioloog
    May 25, 2010
  120. #120 Broken Link
    May 25, 2010

    There’s a report on the rally for Wakefield in NYC on the EoH yahoo list.

    Very satisfying … personally … to be among the small group of
    supporters of Dr. Andrew Wakefield that had gathered outside the NBC studios where
    Matt Lauer interviewed Dr. Wakefield.

    There were only about 20 – 25 people supporting Dr. Wakefield .. but .. we
    were gathered alongside NBC’s much larger crowd of tourists that gather
    each day at 30 Rockefeller Plaza. Most of those people took the time to read
    our various signs .. some approached and asked for information as to why
    we had gathered there.

    After the show .. Dr. Wakefield graciously walked among our small
    gathering and we all had opportunity to shake his hand .. and .. I greatly
    appreciated having the opportunity to tell him that I consider him a hero ..
    thanking him for his courage in putting fourth his research regarding the “gut
    issues” so many of our children have. They can say what they want .. but ..
    I know many of my grandson’s bizarre (neurological? ) behaviors diminished
    greatly after we began treating him for painful colitis, gastritis .. with
    highly inflamed upper and lower intestinal tracts.

    There was one “young” reporter who .. judging by his accent .. was from
    Great Britain. This guy was taping himself as he shouted questions at Dr.
    Wakefield outside the studio where he had graciously stopped among us.

    I waited until I had opportunity and approached this reporter to ask him
    if he had any children himself .. because I though his “questions” were not
    really “questions”. .. they were actually “accusations” hurled at Dr.
    Wakefield. You know .. something on the order of “Have you stopped beating your
    wife?” Admitting he did not have any children as yet .. he told me that
    Dr. Wakefield is despised in England. When I asked him “who” despises him
    because .. surely it is not the parents of the children he treated .. he
    sheepishly admitted the “media”.

    Yes .. we were a small group. But .. all in all .. I wouldn’t have wanted
    to be anywhere else this morning.

  121. #121 sikişme
    June 18, 2010

    re known to occur in about 1 in 1,000,000 vaccinations, but that is 3 orders of magnitude less than taking your chances with measles alone and history has shown that virtually

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