Posting will probably be very light the next couple of days because I’m at the Lorne Trottier Symposium. Not only have the organizers have packed my day with skeptical and science goodness, but I only have Internet access when I’m back at the hotel, which isn’t very much. This is somewhat distressing to me because several readers have sent me a truly bad study implying that (with the press out and out saying that) because investigators couldn’t detect signs of cancer in Egyptian mummies there must not have been cancer in pre-industrial times, the further implication being that all cancer is “man-made.” Such burning stupid demands a heapin’ helpin’ of not-so-Respectful Insolence, but it may not get it because by the time I’m back to my regular schedule in a day or two, the timeliness of the story may be history.

The trials and tribulations of actually trying to do more than be at home, work, and blog aside, thereby spreading my fame far and wide (or at least as far as Montreal), I couldn’t let this one pass. A reader and friend sent me this little tidbit from the website of über-quack Joe Mercola. Buried near the bottom of Mercola’s “newsletter” is an announcement of an initiative:

Mercola.com & NVIC Dedicating November 1-6 Vaccine Awareness Week

In a long-scheduled joint effort to raise public awareness about important vaccination issues during the week of November 1-6, 2010, Mercola.com and NVIC will publish a series of articles and interviews on vaccine topics of interest to Mercola.com newsletter subscribers and NVIC Vaccine E-newsletter readers.

The week-long public awareness program will also raise funds for NVIC, a non-profit charity that has been working for more than two decades to prevent vaccine injuries and deaths through public education and protecting informed consent to vaccination.

The November 1-6 Vaccine Awareness Week hosted by Mercola.com and NVIC will follow a month-long vaccine awareness effort in October that was recently announced on Facebook by parents highlighting Gardasil vaccine risks.

The six-week-long focus this fall on vaccine issues will help raise the consciousness of many more Americans, who may be unaware that they can take an active role in helping to prevent vaccine injuries and deaths and defend the legal right to make voluntary vaccination choices.

And remember, you can always visit Vaccines.Mercola.com and NVIC.org for the latest vaccine news updates and other important vaccine information.


Mercola and Barbara Loe Fisher apparently think that their simply declaring the first week of November to be “Vaccine Awareness Week” will make it so. Of course, there actually is an Immunization Awareness Week here in Canada, but it was six months ago. In the U.S., August is National Immunization Awareness Month. Still, if anti-vaccine loons want to make the first week of November “Vaccine Awareness Week” in order to peddle their pseudoscientific and dangerous misinformation claiming that vaccines cause autism and various maladies, I say we let them have it.

Just not in the way they expected.

So, given the power invested in me as a blogger (which is the same power Joe Mercola and Barbara Loe Fisher, except that I have science on my side), I hereby second the call to declare November 1-6, 2010 “Vaccine Awareness Week.” As part of the activities that week, I plan on spending more time than usual–perhaps all my blog time and posts–emphasizing the dangers of the anti-vaccine movement and providing science-based rebuttals of the lies of the anti-vaccine movement. In particular, I will concentrate on whatever propagandistic misinformation Joe Mercola and Barbara Loe Fisher decide to put out that week. Given whatever persuasive power I have as a blogger, I now request that any and all skeptical bloggers out there also take advantage of Vaccine Awareness Week to do the same. Steve Novella’s already on board, as is–surprise! surprise!–Science-Based Medicine. I’ve also spoken with Ben Goldacre and will be contacting other bloggers after I arrive home from Montreal.

Joe Mercola and Barbara Loe Fisher want to declare a week “Vaccine Awareness Week” in order to bury readers in a deluge of pseudoscience? Surely we can do better than they can and make sure that when anyone Googles “vaccine awareness,” what is found is not the current list of anti-vaccine pseudoscience but rather a flood of rational, science-based discussions of vaccines and refutations of the lies of the anti-vaccine movement. What I’d love to see from November 1-6 are a tsunami (word choice intentional) of posts that:

  • Include science-based discussions of the safety and efficacy of vaccines
  • Include science-based refutations of anti-vaccine misinformation
  • Specifically refute posts by Joe Mercola and Barbara Loe Fisher during that week. (You can throw in Age of Autism, too, if you like.)

Spread the word!

Comments

  1. #1 Todd W.
    October 20, 2010

    @Sid

    Asthma was defned as the occurrence of wheezing and/or a doctor’s diagnosis of asthma and/or use of asthma medication

    Which is entirely in line with the general clinical definition of asthma.

    Additionally the questionnaire depends on one’s memories over time to determine smoking conditions concurrent with pertussis illness. The questionnaire method of diagnosis also raises questions regarding diagnostic accuracy. Finally children already having asthma would have been more likely to receive a pertussis diagnosis since is the illness is more severe in asthmatics

    The study I linked to used the International study of asthma and allergies in childhood (ISAAC [PDF]) core questions, which have been validated for assessing prevalence and severity of asthma and allergies. So, those questions, at least, are valid. As to any other questions that were on the questionnaires, yes, memory may be a limiting factor.

    Regarding pertussis, the researchers, in addition to the questions, took blood samples and checked for pertussis-specific IgG levels. So, they did not rely solely on questionnaires for pertussis diagnosis.

    As to smoking, I find it interesting that first you said the study was bad because you thought it didn’t take smoking into account, but when it was pointed out that it did, indeed, take it into account, that somehow the study is “even worse”?

    Truly, Sid, your mind works in mysterious ways.

    While the study I posted does have limitations, it seems reasonably sound. Would anyone else with a science background care to take a look at it and let me know what you think? The link is up at post 163.

  2. #2 Calli Arcale
    October 20, 2010

    Dr Jay @ 192:

    The PCV13 may help to prevent more strains for a while but then some of the others will take up the slack. We appear to be chasing our tails with this particular bacterium.

    So because it does not prevent all forms of pneumococcal disease, we should surrender? As I see it, the fact that the ecology of this bacterium is changing shows that we’re on the right track — the vaccinations can only be applying a selective pressure on it if they really do work as designed. The next step, then, is clearly to improve the vaccine’s coverage. That’s obviously the idea behind the new 13-valent version, but long-term we’d want a more vaccine that attacks the bacterium in a more generic way. in the meantime, I see no reason to let the disease run unfettered merely because the current vaccines are imperfect.

  3. #3 Sauceress
    October 21, 2010

    You had a patient, with pertussis-like symptoms, during a pertussis outbreak. And you did not test for it.

    Indeed. Considering Jay’s very public opposition to vaccination is a major draw card for his anti-vaxx customers,let’s sincerely hope this girl doesn’t have pertussis and that none of his unprotected patients have contracted it.

  4. #4 Dangerous Bacon
    October 21, 2010

    I wonder, does Jay actually read the articles he links to? If he had, he would have found that no one is quoted as doubting the effectiveness of anti-pneumococcal vaccines or calling for non-vaccination. Instead, they note the difficulty of eradicating pneumococcal disease because of the emergence of new serotypes, which while not typically causing life-threatening disease do cause problems like persistent ear infections.

    From Jay’s National Review of Medicine link:

    “Dr Singleton and her Active Bacterial Core Surveillance program have been monitoring the impact of the vaccine on overall IPD prevalence in children, as well as antibiotic resistance. “We looked specifically at pneumococcal serotypes to track what happened in children after vaccination,” says Dr Singleton. “The strains covered by Prevnar were the ones that had the highest antibiotic resistance.” The good news is Prevnar significantly decreased IPD incidence and antibiotic resistance, and even indirectly decreased IPD in adults by reducing contact infections, notes Dr Singleton.”

    Now that we have the new PCV13 vaccine, more coverage will be achieved and hopefully physicians will not contribute to the emergence of new strains by overprescribing antibiotics, which has been deemed partially responsible for proliferation of S. pneumoniae 19A.

    Dr. Jay’s eagerness to forego vaccination overlooks the problem of antibiotic resistance, which is speeded up when more kids get sick and parents expect antibiotics to be prescribed for them. There’s also the problem of side effects from antibiotics, which knowledgeable physicians would be far more concerned about than vaccine reactions.

    Take the case Jay cites of the 14-year-old with the bad cough whom Jay doesn’t really think has pertussis, but who was given azithromycin (an antibiotic) among other drugs. Due to lack of testing I guess we’ll never know if she had pertussis and might have avoided her illness, ER visit and need for antibiotic therapy had more parents (including the vaccine refusers encouraged in Jay’s practice) gotten their kids immunized against the disease.

  5. #5 jen
    October 21, 2010

    oh my God, Calli, per your post 202. “improve the vaccine’s coverage.” “we should surrender?”…I mean, really, how many vaccines do you think an infant or child can handle? Is it endless? Apparently.

  6. #6 Todd W.
    October 21, 2010

    @jen

    Pull your blinders off for a moment as I try to explain this for you. The pneumococcal vaccine is a single vaccine. PCV7 contains 7 strains of pneumococcal bacteria. PCV13 contains 13 strains of pneumococcal bacteria. This is similar to how the flu vaccine usually contains three strains of influenza virus.

    So, when Calli says that the vaccine’s coverage should be improved, she means that it should be improved so that it protects against even more strains of pneumococcal bacteria. One vaccine, though.

    Okay. Hopefully you were able to understand that.

  7. #7 Seb30
    October 21, 2010

    how many vaccines do you think an infant or child can handle?

    As many as real pathogens he/she can already handle on a daily basis.

  8. #8 Calli Arcale
    October 21, 2010

    jen @ 205:

    oh my God, Calli, per your post 202. “improve the vaccine’s coverage.” “we should surrender?”…I mean, really, how many vaccines do you think an infant or child can handle? Is it endless? Apparently.

    What I think would be ideal is if somebody could isolate a commonality between all strains of the pneumococcal bacterium which the bacterium requires for survival and then device a vaccine which targets that. One antigen, all strains. I don’t think this will happen anytime soon, but it would be awesome. In the meantime, more antigens is probably the only way to address the problem.

    Endless? Not at all. They should be given the antigens which are most likely to be useful to them, and not waste effort on the others. This would be ones which are commonly circulating and/or are particularly virulent and/or particularly contagious. If we end up driving pneumococcal bacteria to evolve to be not very serious and not very contagious, that would be a good outcome in my opinion.

    As far as “surrender”, what I meant by that was that just because the vaccine isn’t perfect doesn’t mean we should surrender and accept the inevitability of disease, as many of our ancestors had to. I believe the best course is to keep fighting, and by many angles — not just vaccination. I also believe vaccines should constantly be improved. They will never be perfect, but they can certainly be better, and that’s something the manufacturers and scientists should strive for.

  9. #9 dean
    October 21, 2010

    “Are you going to include the new science based Mott’s poll that shows vaccine safety to be parents’ number one concern”

    Jen, as others have pointed out, that’s not a scientific survey, and even my sophomore stat students could see that – they actually understand basic statistics and are learning more. That explains why sid, jay, augie, all incredibly stupid and even more dishonest, push it: they can’t, or won’t, put forth the work to distinguish good work from bad.

  10. #10 Mu
    October 21, 2010

    I don’t have any problems with the survey – the result is exactly what I would expect. Every kid (ok, the overwhelming majority, not including Sid’s) gets vaccines, more then any of the other item on the list. So of course the safety of said vaccines is of prime importance to parents.
    Only people like AoA Kim would make the non-sequitur that being concerned over vaccine safety means buying into their scaremongering in regards to vaccines and autism.

  11. #11 Composer99
    October 27, 2010

    Since this post isn’t that old, I don’t think it counts as thread necromancy to post here (where it’s on topic) and mention I hope to write up blog posts to share with my family/friend social network each day of Mercola/Fisher’s ‘Vaccine Awareness Week’ pointing out the logical/moral/economic/scientific failures of the anti-vaccine movement.

    I’ll be sure to link to here and to Science-Based Medicine as often as I can.

  12. #12 Todd W.
    October 27, 2010

    @Composer99

    Don’t forget Prometheus’ Photon in the Darkness and my antiantivax.flurf.net page (I’ll also be blogging at Silenced).

  13. #13 Steve S.
    April 28, 2011

    Boy do I need help. My wife’s mother stayed with us for 10 weeks or so last fall and over the winter, and she has obviously dumped much of this nonsense on my wife. I started noticing some odd behavior and then the absolute refusal to consider getting any vaccines for any of our 3 children (4,3 and 18months). Then I saw the Mercola website on the home PC and the email updates from the same. I did some web searches and thankfully came upon this site, where I can now see that my plight is not very promising. I can’t believe how many of these same arguments that are discussed here that I had to counter in a rather frustrating argument/discussion that pitted me against my wife and her mother. Their daily phone conversations–while I’m at work–are simply driving this whole topic further over the cliff.
    Thanks to all who post the detailed rebuttals. My degree is in Computer Science, not statistics or medicine, so the details really help. Frankly, I don’t know how this is going to play out, but I fear the confrontations are not going to go well. If anyone wants to add any comments or thoughts, or make some further reading recommendations, please do.
    Steve.
    Cincinnati

  14. #14 Denice Walter
    April 28, 2011

    @ Steve S.: Hang with us here- you’re amongst friends!
    Go to recent posts ( today’s, yesterday’s) and comments – you’ll find a lively discussion relevant to your concerns.

  15. #15 Lori Harvey
    October 29, 2011

    The educated people are the ones who are NOT vaccinating their children. They see thru the “junk science” of vaccines. You have to go to school a long time to become stupid enough to think you can inject toxins like mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, antifreeze & human fetus cells into the body & think that the person will be ok as a result of it. Don’t think those toxins are in there? Go to the CDCs website & do a search for vaccine ingredients you will see that I’m correct. Mary Tocco is a 30+ year independent researcher on the dangers of vaccines. I have over 20 years under my belt. Vaccines did NOT save us. Better food, better water & better sanitation is what brought disease under control. The deaths from childhood illnesses came down at the same time for diseases that vaccines were produced for as diseases that didn’t have vaccines. Scarlet fever & TB are 2 such examples. http://genesgreenbook.com/content/proof-vaccines-didnt-save-us

    Vit. D3 has been proven to be 800% more effective in preventing the flu than the flu shot. (naturalnews.com) How is injecting 25 mcg of mercury making you healthy? Using the exposure levels on the EPAs own website, a person would have to weigh 600 lbs. to receive that much mercury at one sitting.

    Wake up people!! Big pharma is NOT out for our health, the sicker we are, the more money they make. They expect their income from vaccines to be at $34 BILLION per year by the year 2015.

  16. #16 Chris
    October 29, 2011

    Ms. Harvey, is there any reason that you needed to comment on a year old thread? Perhaps you should wander around this blog a bit, especially this article. Though before you do I have a couple of questions for you:

    1. You said “Better food, better water & better sanitation is what brought disease under control.”

    Can you explain why measles returned to Japan and the UK? Was there some kind of change in their sanitation practices? Did they give up on sewers and treated water?

    2. You said “Scarlet fever & TB are 2 such examples.”

    But why do kids still get strep throat? It is the caused by group A Streptococcus bacteria, which is the same thing that causes Scarlet fever. Oh, and TB is returning, the antibiotic resistant type.

  17. #17 Narad
    October 29, 2011

    They expect their income from vaccines to be at $34 BILLION per year by the year 2015.

    Lori’s also a twoofer, just by the by. Seriously, toots, you might want to reconsider marketing as a career if this the best you can manage.

  18. #18 Chris
    October 29, 2011

    Good to know. Not only is she trotting blatantly erroneous tropes we have all heard before, she is using the old, boring and totally unoriginal Pharma Shill Gambit.

    It would be nice if these people would post something new and novel like real evidence, and actually know that Scarlet Fever happens when you don’t treat strep throat.

  19. #19 Narad
    October 29, 2011

    I should probably note that that’s just from the Blogger profile that she herself essentially spamvertised.

  20. #20 Science Mom
    October 29, 2011

    The educated people are the ones who are NOT vaccinating their children. They see thru the “junk science” of vaccines.

    “Educated” I do not think it means what you think it means. Fact is, your so-called “educated” parents merely pick and choose what they want to believe because real science is hard.

    You have to go to school a long time to become stupid enough to think you can inject toxins like mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, antifreeze & human fetus cells into the body & think that the person will be ok as a result of it. Don’t think those toxins are in there? Go to the CDCs website & do a search for vaccine ingredients you will see that I’m correct.

    No, you’re not correct. You see for those of us who have gone to school a long time to get stupid manage to know that there is no anti-freeze in vaccines, no or only trace mercury in paediatric vaccines, know that there are toxic doses and safe doses and also know that there are no ‘human fetus cells’ injected into the body.

    Mary Tocco is a 30+ year independent researcher on the dangers of vaccines. I have over 20 years under my belt.

    Mary Tocco is no independent researcher and neither are you. She’s no more than a former chiropractor office assistant. You both can call yourselves Duchesses for all I care, doesn’t make you so.

    Vaccines did NOT save us. Better food, better water & better sanitation is what brought disease under control. The deaths from childhood illnesses came down at the same time for diseases that vaccines were produced for as diseases that didn’t have vaccines. Scarlet fever & TB are 2 such examples.

    Oh what a tired old trope, not like something called a-n-t-i-b-i-o-t-i-c-s was discovered to help reduce the mortality of Scarlet fever and TB.

    Vit. D3 has been proven to be 800% more effective in preventing the flu than the flu shot. (naturalnews.com) How is injecting 25 mcg of mercury making you healthy? Using the exposure levels on the EPAs own website, a person would have to weigh 600 lbs. to receive that much mercury at one sitting.

    Twenty years of “research” under your belt and you don’t even know to post a proper citation? You know from reputable, indexed medical journals? Furthermore, your abuse of the EPA mercury information doesn’t exactly demonstrate your “research” prowess either.

    Wake up people!! Big pharma is NOT out for our health, the sicker we are, the more money they make. They expect their income from vaccines to be at $34 BILLION per year by the year 2015.

    Right, and the Little Supplement industry is churning out effective and safe products for free. Pharma makes a whole lot more on VPD treatments than prevention so go ahead, make your contribution to Big Pharma Einstein. Oh yes, your little fact-free blog is quite entertaining.

  21. #21 Antaeus Feldspar
    October 29, 2011

    The educated people are the ones who are NOT vaccinating their children. They see thru the “junk science” of vaccines.

    That’s the Dunning-Kruger effect talking, there; the people who know the least on a subject think they are the “educated” ones on the subject, and that everyone who follows the real science has been duped by “junk science.”

    You have to go to school a long time to become stupid enough to think you can inject toxins like mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, antifreeze & human fetus cells into the body & think that the person will be ok as a result of it.

    Out of the five “toxins” on your list, the last two are not even in vaccines.  Some vaccines contain polyethylene glycol; some people mistakenly assume that this is the same chemical as ethylene glycol, which is one of multiple components of antifreeze, but it is not, and anyone who did their research honestly would soon discover that it is not.  Some vaccines were developed by being cultured in fetal cells; some people mistakenly assume that this means that fetal cells are in the vaccines, but anyone who did their research honestly would soon discover that this is as ridiculous an assumption as claiming “Carrots are grown in the dirt, therefore, carrots contain dirt!”  Of the three remaining toxins, what an honest researcher would discover is that a can of tuna has more mercury in it than any vaccine does, and eating a pear puts more formaldehyde in your body than any vaccine.

    Don’t think those toxins are in there? Go to the CDCs website & do a search for vaccine ingredients you will see that I’m correct.

    Except of course anyone who does so will see that you’re not.

    Mary Tocco is a 30+ year independent researcher on the dangers of vaccines. I have over 20 years under my belt.

    So fifty years of “research” between the two of you and neither of you actually checked whether polyethylene glycol and ethylene glycol were the same thing?

    Vaccines did NOT save us. Better food, better water & better sanitation is what brought disease under control. The deaths from childhood illnesses came down at the same time for diseases that vaccines were produced for as diseases that didn’t have vaccines. Scarlet fever & TB are 2 such examples.

    Yes, we’ve heard that claim before.  We also know why that claim falls apart under real examination.  Did the iron lung “save us” from polio?  No, it did not, and neither did better food, better water and better sanitation; they reduced the deaths from the disease, but they did not reduce its incidence.  Vaccines reduce the incidence of disease.  An honest researcher would grasp that that, and not reducing the number of deaths, is truly bringing the disease “under control.”

    Vit. D3 has been proven to be 800% more effective in preventing the flu than the flu shot (naturalnews.com)

    Hate to tell you this, but Mike Adams and his website do not always purvey the truth.

  22. #22 Narad
    October 29, 2011

    Eh, screw it, she’s also a fake-ass “Torah keeper.”

  23. #23 Chris
    October 29, 2011

    Science Mom:

    Oh yes, your little fact-free blog is quite entertaining.

    Oh, wow, it is hilarious! On May 25th, 2011 she posted a website for Washington State parents to find vaccine friendly doctors to sign the new vaccine exemption form. So I went to the very poorly designed http://novaxdoctors.webs.com/doctorlist.htm and saw there were no entries for that particular state.

    I guess her research did not even include reading the page.

  24. #24 Science Mom
    October 29, 2011

    Oh, wow, it is hilarious! On May 25th, 2011 she posted a website for Washington State parents to find vaccine friendly doctors to sign the new vaccine exemption form.

    I wonder how many of those “doctors” are naturopaths, chiropractors and “brave maverick doctors”?

  25. #25 Chris
    October 29, 2011

    Some more on her research, on March 11, 2011 she wrote: “Mark Adams at NaturalNews.com.” Along with not knowing how to use HTML, she has issues with reading.

  26. #26 lilady
    October 29, 2011

    You guys hooked a real live crazy troll here…and I missed it because I was away from my laptop.

    I also read Lori Harvey’s blog and her “profile”.

    So Lori, tell us about your “other” career (marketing/merchandising) and why you think you are an expert in immunology and vaccine-preventable diseases…and mammography…and birth control pills…and radiation exposure from the Japanese nuclear plant fire.

    Do you have a degree from any university in any subject or work experience outside of your brilliant “merchandising career”. (We like to know who is blogging here with “expert” advice.)

    Unfortunately, I am called away from my laptop again…but I will be watching for your comments…they are so enlightening.

  27. #27 Narad
    October 29, 2011

    I have one with a link hung up, but she’s also a “super-admin” at paltalk-dot-com by way of “Health for a Greater Exodus” by way of “Take Hold the Tzitzit.” This would be amusing if it weren’t a hair’s breadth away from Christian Identity.

  28. #28 novalox
    October 29, 2011

    @lori harvey

    Thanks for the utter lulz. Haven’t had a laugh at the total stupidity of a person like you in a while.

  29. #29 Narad
    October 29, 2011

    Lori is apparently also a fan of Michael Rood, who was forced out of his own organization in a rather tawdry affair.

  30. #30 Narad
    October 29, 2011

    (Not marital, lest I be misconstrued.)

  31. #31 dedicated lurker
    October 29, 2011

    TB went away? Guess no one told the people around here, or I wouldn’t be getting those mandated TB tests.

  32. #32 lilady
    October 30, 2011

    @ Narad: Torah keeper, take hold the Tzitzit and Michael Rood follower all wrapped up in this loony Lori…is that like “Jews for Jesus”?

    Lori posted on June 30, 2011 about how she and her husband look so young by “following the dietary laws in Lev. 11”. Michael Rood the messianic rabbi isn’t even a Jew and was brought up in a traditional Christian faith.

    If she comes back to post again, ask her about her self-diagnosed Meniere’s Disease…the disorder she claims to have that was caused by vaccines and exposure to nickel. Ask her if she ever had the chelation that “cured” Desiree Jennings. (June 13, 2011 posting on her blog).

  33. #33 herr doktor bimler
    October 30, 2011

    she and her husband look so young by “following the dietary laws in Lev. 11”.

    I personally preserve my youthful good looks by following the no-mixed-fibres parts of Leviticus. People are so aghast at the ugliness of my clothes that they never notice my face.

  34. #34 Narad
    October 30, 2011

    is that like “Jews for Jesus”?

    There’s overlap, but I get the impression that the Jews for Jesus party line, at least, is about putting Jesus into Judaism, while as one inches closer to the Black Hebrew mentality, it becomes more about simply taking the Jews out of Judaism.

    (If you go to Lori’s main site–which hews to HaShem’s Web design advice of autoplaying little MIDI tunes on nearly every page–she’s also into the Georgia Guidestones and the usual assortment of NWO/Illuminati kookery, which almost invariably finds its way back to serious anti-Semitism.)

  35. #35 lilady
    October 30, 2011

    @ herr doktor bimler: So I located my King James Version of the bible and it discusses “what is unclean to you”. Apparently God spoke to Moses and Aaron and directed them to instruct their following about “whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat”. Camels, pigs and hares are verboten as are any creatures that creepeth, crawleth and slithereth. Fish with scales are okay, shellfish are a no-no. Fowl that hunt and eat carrion taboo. Further along in Leviticus I suppose are the prohibitions against mixing meat and dairy and prohibiting the eating of the hindquarters of the animals with cloven hoofs that chew their cud. Perhaps separate fibers are parve and mixed fibers are not

    I read somewhere about “Jews for Jesus” and they are all Christians who snare unsuspecting Jews into believing in a mixing of the faiths. JFJ have an agenda to convert “non-believers” into accepting Jesus as the messiah. As Narad states, they are wrapped up in the illuminati and are sneakily antisemitic.

  36. #36 Narad
    October 30, 2011

    As Narad states, [JFJ] are wrapped up in the illuminati and are sneakily antisemitic.

    I certainly didn’t mean to give that impression. One can obviously point to JFJ’s prosyletization itself as claiming some sort of grievous flaw, but that’s not the same as the “no, we’re the real chosen people” routine that can be found further on the fringe.

  37. #37 lilady
    October 30, 2011

    @ Narad: I’ve seen some of them “at work” in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods…perhaps they are among the fringe groups. I also know some very devout Jews and they are upset about the blatant proselytizing by evangelical Christians.

    (A lot more evangelical Christians than “non” as of late in American society.)

  38. #38 Lori Harvey
    October 30, 2011

    I debated long & hard about posting again after attacks on my faith, character, etc. But, I have decided these attacks can’t be answered. You want to continue to believe in the Big Pharma, fine. Medical mistakes are the 8th leading cause of death. I know of many children that were injured by vaccines. This is why I spend countless hours every week helping parents opt out of these toxic substances being injected into their kids.
    There are MANY doctors who believe that vaccines are wrong too. Here is just a small sampling of them –

    Dr. Mayer Eisenstein – homefirst.com

    Dr. Sherry Tenpenny – drtenpenny.com

    Dr. Todd Elsner – exemptmychild.com

    Dr. Gary Gordon – gordonresearch.com

    Robert Scott Bell (naturalpath) – robertscottbell.com

    There are many more out there.

    So, go to their websites & then try to find a reason to continue your attacks.

    I offer no apologies as to what is posted on my blog. The info is out there if you choose to find it.

    Good day……

  39. #39 Denice Walter
    October 30, 2011

    @ Narad-
    Since we’re talking “fringe”, how about “British Israelism”?

  40. #40 Chris
    October 30, 2011

    Ms. Harvey:

    I debated long & hard about posting again after attacks on my faith, character, etc.

    Which I don’t care about. I only care about your “fact.”

    Why do you refuse to answer my two simple questions? Did you not know that measles returned to Japan, the UK and now the USA? Did you not know that Scarlet Fever is actually untreated strep throat?

    Also, did you not check the page on doctors who will not vaccinate children to see that there were actually in the state of Washington (which, I assume you know is not the same as the city)? And did you not know the first name of NaturalNews’ Mr. Adams?

    Also, if you search this webpage you will find plenty of evidence those “experts” do not have a clue. Just like you don’t have a clue.

  41. #41 Orac
    October 30, 2011

    mall sampling of them –

    Dr. Mayer Eisenstein – homefirst.com

    Dr. Sherry Tenpenny – drtenpenny.com

    Dr. Todd Elsner – exemptmychild.com

    Dr. Gary Gordon – gordonresearch.com

    Robert Scott Bell (naturalpath) – robertscottbell.com

    There are many more out there.

    And I’ve written about some of them, in particular Dr. Eisenstein and Tenpenny, two of the worst. Search this blog.

  42. #42 Lawrence
    October 30, 2011

    Lori – I, for one, am happy that my kids won’t have to experience mumps, pertussis, chickpox, measles, or the host of other diseases that are now vaccine-preventable.

    Go ahead & take a walk through an older cemetary or research your family tree – I think you’ll find a number of younger children that didn’t survive to adulthood.

    Enjoy the freedom to question vaccines, because the programs have been so successful. If you and your ilk have their way, we’ll return to the days when it becomes normal again for kids to die before the age of 5.

    So thanks a lot.

  43. #43 Julian Frost
    October 30, 2011

    Medical mistakes are the 8th leading cause of death.

    We’ve heard this one before. Citation needed, or you’re lying.

    I know of many children that were injured by vaccines. This is why I spend countless hours every week helping parents opt out of these toxic substances being injected into their kids.

    Have any of these parents gone to Vaccine Court? If not, why not?
    Thanks for posting the names of Meyer Eisenstein and Sherri Tenpenny. They’ve been dismantled by Orac before.

    I offer no apologies as to what is posted on my blog. The info is out there if you choose to find it.

    Thanks, but we prefer not to listen to antivaxx liars.

    Good day.

    Buh-bye, and don’t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

  44. #44 Science Mom
    October 30, 2011

    Dr. Mayer Eisenstein – homefirst.com

    The subject of this blog on numerous occasions and also a crackpot physician who has been sued for malpractice on numerous occasions for neonatal deaths. Also, not a researcher.

    Dr. Sherry Tenpenny – drtenpenny.com

    Dismissed from Vaccine Court for well, not being a vaccine expert. Thinks rabies can be cured with sodium ascorbate. Also, not a researcher.

    Dr. Todd Elsner – exemptmychild.com

    A chiropractor, not an MD nor PhD. Also, not a researcher.

    Dr. Gary Gordon – gordonresearch.com

    Gary “chelatum” Gordon has a padded CV and oh look, his own “institute” to cure what ails ya, with chelation of course. Nope, no conflicts of interest there. Also, not a researcher.

    Robert Scott Bell (naturalpath) – robertscottbell.com

    Another conspiracy nutter who’s not a doctor. Also, not a researcher.

    You know Lori, if you’re going to appeal to authority, you might want to make sure that you are actually making an appeal with authorities, not just some whackjobs who are as daft as you.

  45. #45 Lori Harvey
    October 30, 2011

    I just went to the website of doctors who don’t push vaccinations. There are 11 doctors in the State of Washington that anti-vax friendly.

    http://novaxdoctors.webs.com/doctorlist.htm#Washington

    So who doesn’t have a clue now?

    I’ll look into the measles thing later on today. I’m headed over to the college campus now to work on article for the health section of the college newspaper. (yes, I’m their health writer & have been getting compliments from the professors on my articles, including the one on Thermography)

    BUT I will say this about Japan, Japan stopped giving vaccines to kids under the age of 2, their incidence of kids dying before the age of 2 dropped dramatically but skyrocketed once they started vaccinating kids at the age of 2 years. (confirmed by 4 students from Japan in one of my classes this past Spring semester)

    The US is the most vaccinated country in the world but yet we are the sickest. We have the highest mortality rate for kids under the age of 5. Look at the vaccine schedule, enough said.

  46. #46 Th1Th2
    October 30, 2011

    The US is the most vaccinated country in the world but yet we are the sickest. We have the highest mortality rate for kids under the age of 5. Look at the vaccine schedule, enough said.

    Because vaccination is a woo. Enough said.

  47. #47 Chris
    October 30, 2011

    Did you actually read that website? It may have the pull down menu listing Washington, but absolutely no doctors in the state lists? Yes, you still do not have a clue.

    BUT I will say this about Japan, Japan stopped giving vaccines to kids under the age of 2, their incidence of kids dying before the age of 2 dropped dramatically but skyrocketed once they started vaccinating kids at the age of 2 years. (confirmed by 4 students from Japan in one of my classes this past Spring semester)

    That is a lie. What actually happened is that after they stopped giving DTP to children under age 2, the numbers of babies who died from pertussis went up to 41. Because they were not vaccinated for pertussis, they could not claim they had SIDS due to a vaccine.

    A couple of things to read: Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story:

    They later allowed it only for children older than 2 years. Pertussis coverage for infants fell from nearly 80% in 1974 to 10% in 1976.13 A pertussis
    epidemic occurred in 1979 with more than 13 000 cases and 41 deaths. Japan began replacing whole-cell with acellular pertussis vaccines in 1981, and a striking fall in pertussis incidence followed (figure 2).

    And as about measles in Japan: Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan:

    In Japan, measles vaccine coverage has remained low, and either small or moderate outbreaks have occurred repeatedly in communities. According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.

  48. #48 Chris
    October 30, 2011

    I have a comment in moderation.

    Ms. Harvey, actually read the website and list one doctor in that list that lives in the state of Washington.

    More on the Japanese lie:

    Expert Rev Vaccines. 2005 Apr;4(2):173-84.
    Acellular pertussis vaccines in Japan: past, present and future.
    Watanabe M, Nagai M.

    After two infants died within 24 h of the vaccination from 1974 to 1975, the Japanese government temporarily suspended vaccinations. Subsequently, the public and the government witnessed the re-emergence of whooping cough, with 41 deaths in 1979. This series of unfortunate events revealed to the public that the vaccine had, in fact, been beneficial.

    BMC Health Serv Res. 2011 Oct 7;11(1):254. [Epub ahead of print]
    The economic disease burden of measles in Japan and a benefit cost analysis of vaccination, a retrospective study.
    Takahashi K, Ohkusa Y, Kim JY.

    BACKGROUND:

    During 1999-2003, Japan experienced a series of measles epidemics, and in Action Plans to Control Measles and the Future Problems, it was proposed that infants be immunized soon after their one-year birthday. In this study, we attempted to estimate the nationwide economic disease burden of measles based on clinical data and the economic effectiveness of this proposal using the benefit cost ratio.

    Environ Health Prev Med. 2011 May 7. [Epub ahead of print]
    Effectiveness assessment of vaccination policy against measles epidemic in Japan using an age-time two-dimensional mathematical model.
    Maitani Y, Ishikawa H.

    OBJECTIVES:

    In 2007, measles prevailed among the youth and young adult population in Japan, creating in a serious social problem. Among the developed countries, Japan has a relatively high incidence of measles. The objective of this study was to assess the effect of improvements in the vaccination policy against measles through simulations.

  49. #49 Narad
    October 30, 2011

    I’ll look into the measles thing later on today. I’m headed over to the college campus now to work on article for the health section of the college newspaper. (yes, I’m their health writer & have been getting compliments from the professors on my articles, including the one on Thermography)

    The Des Moines Area Community College’s Boone Banner, just by the by. Sadly, the search function is broken.

  50. #50 Chris
    October 30, 2011

    I now have two comments in moderation!

    Ms. Harvey, actually read the website and list one doctor and the city he/she is in on that list that lives in the state of Washington.

  51. #51 Narad
    October 30, 2011

    Because vaccination is a woo. Enough said.

    Balefully and repetitively insisting upon being the May Queen is pretty embarrassing, Th1Th2. Especially in October.

  52. #52 Hinterlander
    October 30, 2011

    Lori – we have a measles outbreak here in New Zealand (that’s the small country to the right of Australia in the southern hemisphere). We are a first world country, with first world sanitary standards and healthcare. The reason why we have an outbreak here is due to a recent slump in vaccine uptake. Here’s a quote from the Health Ministry’s Director of Public Health: “The vast majority of children in Auckland who have caught measles, including the ones who have been hospitalised because they have become so sick, are not immunised. This is testament to the vaccine’s effectiveness.”

    Eight people in Auckland were in quarantine and five had required hospitalisation. Almost all cases were people who were not immunised.”

    That was taken from this article dated 1st August this year. The outbreak has since spread to the whole of the North Island (our country is made up of two major islands) and will no doubt spread to the South Island too.

    Lori, I don’t doubt that you fully believe in your stance against vaccines, but that is what makes people like you more dangerous. You are actually harming the vulnerable members of society by propagating your beliefs. Please open your mind to the fact that you might be wrong and educate yourself. You can start by having a good look around this blog, where Orac has countered every assertion you’ve made. You could then dedicate all this time to a cause that actually benefits our world.

  53. #53 The Christian Cynic
    October 30, 2011

    BUT I will say this about Japan, Japan stopped giving vaccines to kids under the age of 2, their incidence of kids dying before the age of 2 dropped dramatically but skyrocketed once they started vaccinating kids at the age of 2 years. (confirmed by 4 students from Japan in one of my classes this past Spring semester)

    This smells a lot like the old “SIDS incidence in Japan dropped dramatically after they stopped giving vaccines under the age of 2” story, which is a load of crap (warning: PDF):

    In Japan during the period concerned there was in place a Vaccine Compensation System, and the data presented by Noble and Cherry relate to claims made through this system.28,44 Compensation was commonly awarded for events considered possibly due to immunisation, unless there was clear evidence that this was not the case. Approximately two thirds of claims submitted were accepted.

    Noble and Cherry both report that when the minimum immunisation age was moved from three months to two years there were no claims made through the compensation system for vaccine related sudden death.28,44 They do not claim, as Dr Scheibner suggests, that there were no deaths from SIDS in Japan following the change in immunisation age.

    Claims for vaccine related sudden death stopped, not because children were no longer dying, but because their deaths no longer occurred during a period when they were also receiving immunisation. How can you claim for a vaccine-related death if no vaccine was given?

    This is actually one of my favorite canards, since it’s one that I managed to debunk with minimal research before getting at all involved in skeptical circles like here at RI. (It’s also almost incredible to me that Stephen Basser debunked that in 1997. How anyone can continue to spout off that idiotic claim is beyond me.)

  54. #54 The Christian Cynic
    October 30, 2011

    Comment in moderation about LH’s bogus Japan statistics, which are probably cribbed from Viera Scheibner.

  55. #55 Krebiozen
    October 30, 2011

    Lori,

    I spend countless hours every week helping parents opt out of these toxic substances being injected into their kids.

    That’s appalling. Your misguided actions may very well result in the serious illness or death of a child.

    Lori, here’s a project for you. Please find out how much formaldehyde is in the blood of a normal, healthy child, and how it got there, and compare that with the maximum amount in any vaccine. Then have a long hard think about how much of the other “information” you have read on Natural News and similar sites is equally inaccurate, and what damage you are doing spreading this dangerous nonsense.

  56. #56 Chris
    October 30, 2011

    The Christian Cynic, the lie about Japan has been around for years. I first read about it about fifteen years ago in an early version of The Anti-Immunization Activists: A Pattern of Deception. It was in the “vaccination myths” list made by Allan Phillips when he was in law school.

    I also posted a link about it. Essentially due to a couple of babies dying possibly from SIDS less than a day after their DTP vaccine Japan suspended use of that vaccine. Though a few years later pertussis came back big time and killed 41 infants. Then there was no reason to blame the death on a vaccine the children had not received. Also the rate of SIDS remained the same. From the link above:

    The rate of SIDS in Japan did not change, but because the immunization schedule was changed, people stopped blaming the vaccine.

  57. #57 Science Mom
    October 30, 2011

    I’ll look into the measles thing later on today. I’m headed over to the college campus now to work on article for the health section of the college newspaper. (yes, I’m their health writer & have been getting compliments from the professors on my articles, including the one on Thermography)

    I see Narad has posted what I suspected. I’m sure the pats on the head you are getting are either figments of your imagination or indicative of the stellar quality of “professors” who are employed by your quaint little college.

    BUT I will say this about Japan, Japan stopped giving vaccines to kids under the age of 2, their incidence of kids dying before the age of 2 dropped dramatically but skyrocketed once they started vaccinating kids at the age of 2 years. (confirmed by 4 students from Japan in one of my classes this past Spring semester)

    BUT you would be wrong yet again; instead of parroting a micropaleontologist from the Jurassic era, try looking for original sources. Or is that too hard for Ms. “Health” writer?

    Japan has a vaccine injury compensation scheme that is even more facile with regards to evidence than the U.S. system. They compensated for alleged DTP “cot deaths” in infants (that’s less than 12 months by the way). When they switched to the two year-old recommendation, parents couldn’t file for compensation for DTP cot deaths so it’s an artefact of the compensation scheme and vaccine recommendation change. And no, child deaths did not increase at two years old; you just made that up. What did happen was that morbidity and mortality due to pertussis disease increased in children less than two years old Braintrust.

    The US is the most vaccinated country in the world but yet we are the sickest. We have the highest mortality rate for kids under the age of 5. Look at the vaccine schedule, enough said.

    Oh if only you could actually support this with some evidence. Oh wait, you can’t.

  58. #58 Chris
    October 30, 2011

    Aw, our comments have been approved. I will be interested in Ms. Harvey’s excuses. But now off to making and dying costumes. I actually found orange dye in my stash!

  59. #59 herr doktor bimler
    October 30, 2011

    I’m their health writer & have been getting compliments from the professors on my articles, including the one on Thermography

    I have been receiving compliments from the staff at my institution on the quality of my basket-weaving.

  60. #60 Denice Walter
    October 30, 2011

    I know you really shouldn’t judge people by the company they keep but we ofttimes can cull useful information when shared beliefs/agendi are involved:

    Dr Eisenstein has a show on the ProgressiveRadioNetwork; Dr Tenpenny has been featured on the aforementioned *and* on NaturalNews- more than once. Scott Bell showcases Mike ( a/k/a Mark) Adams as a “thought leader” or suchlike.

    And I would be cautious about taking advice from either of these guys and their surrogates- not the best judgment I venture: an example of Adams’- he chided people about living in the US- pollution, corruption, decay- while he rhapsodised about his paradisal digs in Ecuador ( inviting his adherents to stick with him there)- which- btw- he had to _leave_ for unexplained reasons ( perhaps too much fame?), returning to the US ( first AZ, now TX). And the other idiot**: have you ever seen his taste in clothes? I rest my case.

    ** And you thought I’d go for the vitamin OD!

  61. #61 lilady
    October 30, 2011

    “I’m their health writer & have been getting compliments from the professors on my articles, including the one on Thermography”.

    Gee Lori, I asked you about your University degree and your work history and you didn’t reply.

    You are a 41 year old student at DMACC (Des Moines Area Community College)-Boone Campus and you are the “health writer” for the student newspaper “The Banner News”. I saw the September, 2011 issue and two pictures of you. Your article “Raising Awareness and Promoting Safety”…an innocuous piece of fluff about preventing rape, had nothing to do with the health sciences that you claim expertise about.

    Now on your blog (August 20, 2011) you touted Norman Marvin and the benefits of “Protandim” an anti-aging, anti oxidant supplement…manufactured by Life Vantage Corp., which is a MLM company. Is this the marketing/merchandising “career” that you made reference to.

    Why don’t you check into that “measles thing” and come back to post here?

    BTW, Get another picture for your column for the student newspaper, because in spite of following the dietary restrictions contained in Lev. 11 and promoting Protandim, you appear older than your years. (meow)

  62. #62 Hinterlander
    October 30, 2011

    Lori, as you can see, others here have been checking out your “things”, so do us a favour and check out the “measles thing” along with the other “things” such as evidence refuting the erroneous statement you made linking vaccines to deaths in Japan.

    You will find lots of other interesting “things” here if you have a look through the archives (menu bar under the banner).

  63. #63 Chris
    October 30, 2011

    lilady, it gets worse. She wrote an article for Breast Cancer Month in the October 12th issue which is a blatant advertisement for the “The Thermography Center” in Urbandale. She quotes retired neurosurgeon and supplement shill Russell Blaylock.

  64. #64 Science Mom
    October 30, 2011

    She wrote an article for Breast Cancer Month in the October 12th issue which is a blatant advertisement for the “The Thermography Center” in Urbandale. She quotes retired neurosurgeon and supplement shill Russell Blaylock.

    Oh FSM, who in the hell put her in charge of “health news” for this rag? They should have their head examined too. I hope no one is listening to this woman, what a nutbar.

  65. #65 lilady
    October 30, 2011

    @ Chris: Good for you for “catching” Lori “shilling” for the “therm” in lieu of mammogram.

    Kudos to all the “regulars” here (not you Thingy)…for taking her apart. I missed all the fun; my usual Sunday visit to my “other” son and then a hospital visit with a close friend who thankfully did not have a stroke. She had a grand mal seizure, was in status epilepticus for several hours which led to left-sided Todd’s (postictal) paralysis. She’s recovering now and hopefully additional medication will relieve her symptoms (inoperable arterio-venous malformation).

  66. #66 Narad
    October 30, 2011

    I debated long & hard about posting again after attacks on my faith, character, etc.

    Lori, I assure you that I thought quite a bit about how much to unreel of your simple triangulation. There are two parts to this: First, your “character,” as it were, has been wholly self-defined. You spend “countless hours every week helping parents opt out of these toxic substances,” viz., being a menace to public health.

    Allow me to turn to your “faith.” It’s fraudulent from top to bottom. I’m sorry to be blunt, but I simply have no patience with this shit. My best friend was orthodox and didn’t live to see his second son. And I took that fucking shovel over and over and over again. So you’ll have to excuse my lack of respect for cutesy, fake attempts at usurpation of Judaism by some latch-hooking corn-country shitbrain with an eye-of-providence background on her page of links to Prison Planet et al.

  67. #67 lilady
    October 30, 2011

    @ Narad: I’m a Christian and I take great offense at the activities of these fringe evangelicals. My Jewish buddy thinks they are nuts and believes but for the coming “rapture”…these evangelicals would despise Jews.

    Lori, where are you? Did you check out that “measles thing”?

  68. #68 Sauceress
    October 30, 2011

    #215

    Wake up people!! Big pharma is NOT out for our health, the sicker we are, the more money they make. They expect their income from vaccines to be at $34 BILLION per year by the year 2015

    Wake up Lori Harvey!! Big Snake Oil is NOT out for your health, the more gullible you are, the more money they make.

    The Dietary Supplement Industry is expected to be worth $250 Billion worldwide by 2016.
    (Scource Wiki: Alternative_medicine)

  69. #69 Chris
    October 30, 2011

    I should also add: Wake up Lori!

    You should actually use ctrl-f to find things in a website before you claim it is in there. Still waiting for you to list one name and city of a doctor in that webpage that is in the State of Washington.

    And perhaps should take a few biology courses at your community college, and then actually find qualified medical personnel for information. Like an actual breast cancer specialist, and not a retired surgeon or the person whose business your are advertising.

  70. #70 lilady
    October 30, 2011

    Psst guys, did we come on too strong for Lori and scare her away? Perhaps we should go easy on the next troll that comes posting here.

    It’s fun to string them along a bit, then nail their asses to the wall.

    Chris, are you dressing for Halloween as a pumpkin?

  71. #71 Chris
    October 31, 2011

    (No, it was to be a costume for my daughter, some game character that has an orange hood, and she was sewing much of it herself. Unfortunately it turned into a “wadder”, the term used by those who sew as failures. I helped all I could, but it was a lost cause. Though she did create a very nice pair of tights, and learned some nice skills. Though I am still trying to deal with the odors from the “dying with onions” experiment.)

    By the way, Ms. Harvey, I applaud you taking classes at a community college. I am a big fan of them. That is where I took courses in biology, statistics, physics and even learned how to use HTML for webpages. Two of my children are attending the community college. One of them is my oldest who gets disability services, and my daughter who is spending her senior year of high school at the community college.

    But please take some science courses with an open mind. I would also suggest a class in statistics. And I am still waiting for you to actually read the webpage which you claimed listed doctors in the State of Washington.

  72. #72 lilady
    October 31, 2011

    @ Chris: My mom used to use yellow onion skins layered atop eggs to dye Easter eggs, which produced a mottled “marbled” type of Easter egg. For Greek Easter, (no Greek heritage at all in our family), I think the yellow onion skins are slowly simmered, liquid strained, to produce solid orange-colored Easter eggs.

    @ Lori: I too, give you credit for returning to school. I began taking courses in a community college as an “older” student, transferred to a university, “scored” a partial academic scholarship and graduated with a BSc-Nursing, Magna Cum Laude.

    Lori, here is an opportunity to prove your mettle. Take some serious courses in a community college that include some science courses to learn critical thinking.

  73. #73 Chris
    November 1, 2011

    So will Ms. Harvey come back and answer some questions?

  74. #74 lilady
    November 1, 2011

    @ Chris: I don’t think Ms. Harvey will be back…too bad.

  75. #75 Lori Harvey
    November 4, 2011

    Wow, I see now that one thing is very clear. Since I don’t subscribe to modern medicine, I get attacked.

    And to those of you who are question why I haven’t come back. My net has been offline all week at home.

    So, go ahead & take your big pharma drugs & enjoy them.

    So sad that people can’t read. Good riddance to all of you!

  76. #76 Gray Falcon
    November 4, 2011

    Lori, you might be taken more seriously if you noticed that there are more recent articles to post on. If you aren’t able to figure that out, how can you be observant enough to understand medicine?

  77. #77 Chris
    November 4, 2011

    Oh, Ms. Harvey, when you do join the fun on the more recent thread, show us you actually read the following web page:
    http://novaxdoctors.webs.com/doctorlist.htm#Washington

    Now list one in that list that is in Washington State, and which city.

    By the way, have you read up on Japan yet?

  78. #78 Chris
    November 4, 2011

    In case you get lost, Ms. Harvey, the more recent article is:
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/11/vaccine_injury_awareness_week_joe_mercol.php

  79. #79 Chris
    November 4, 2011

    Okay, I found out there were Washington doctors on that list. It is just that the HTML is so lame on that page it did not load properly in Firefox. So I admit I was wrong.

    So, Ms. Harvey when will you come back to clarify the lie about pertussis vaccines in Japan?

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