Respectful Insolence

Mike Adams sinks to a new low

I’ve written a lot about Mike Adams, the man who founded NaturalNews.com and has been one of the most prominent promoters of quackery on the Internet. Indeed, Mike Adams appears to be battling it out with Joe Mercola for the title of owning the biggest quackery website on the Internet. There’s one area, however, where Mike Adams clearly reigns supreme, and that’s latching on, ghoul-like, to major tragedies in order to promote his pro-quackery agenda. For example, when former White House Press Secretary Tony Snow died of metastatic colon cancer a couple of years ago, Mike Adams was right there to blame his death on chemotherapy while at the same time sliming Snow as the equivalent of having served as the press secretary for Hitler, given his tenure as having been President George W. Bush’s press secretary. When Patrick Swayze died of pancreatic cancer a year and a half ago, after having in essence told cancer quacks to put up or shut up immediately claimed that it was chemotherapy and conventional medicine that had doomed him, going further to say that “natural therapies” could have saved Swayze’s life. From metastatic pancreatic cancer. The mind boggles. Then, when Farrah Fawcett died of anal cancer, Mike Adams wrote a wildly unhinged little diatribe that included this geme:

Back to Farrah, while many of her friends and supporters say her battle with cancer was “an inspiration,” let me be the first to publicly state that to me, poisoning yourself with toxic chemicals is NOT inspiring, no matter how much suffering you go through. I do not believe that people should be given special recognition for pain and suffering they consciously choose to inflict upon themselves, especially when all that suffering is easily avoidable. It would have been far more “inspiring” for Farrah to choose healing remedies instead of deadly poisons.

Nice guy, huh?

So what do you think Adams had to say after the tragic events of Saturday, when a U.S. Representative–Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ)–was shot in the head at a constituent event at a supermarket in Tucson. In that shooting spree, twenty people were shot, and six were killed, including John Roll, chief judge of the U.S. District Court of Arizona, and a nine-year-old girl named Christina Taylor Green. The suspected gunman is named Jared Lee Loughner, a 22-year-old who apparently walked up to Giffords and opened fire, shooting her in the head at point blank range and then turning the gun on members in the crowd. While Loughner apparently didn’t carry a psychiatric diagnosis, his writings on his MySpace page were disordered and rambling, certainly suggestive of mental illness. However, it should be pointed out that it is by no means certain that Loughner is mentally ill, even though it certainly is plausible that he is, given his behavior, stories by people who knew him, and his writings on his MySpace page. None of this stops Mike Adams for doing what he does best and demonizing psychiatry a mere 24 hours after the shooting in an article entitled Giffords shooter shows pattern of psychiatric derangement; no clear political affiliation. Not to be outdone by anyone, Adams then followed this article up with a claim that the government is trying to demonize people who “question the government” in an article entitled, appropriately enough, In wake of Giffords shooting, the mere act of questioning the government now being demonized.

I know I say it over and over again, but it looks as though Adams has hit a new low. I need to learn one thing right here. Whenever Adams sinks as low as I think he can sink, he always manages to find a way to prove me wrong and sink even lower. So this time I won’t make any claims that this is as low as Adams can go, but my mind recoils in disgust and dread contemplating just what, exactly, Adams could to do sink any lower. You’ll see what I mean in a minute. Well, not a minute. Now:

Does this ring a bell for anyone? A young white male, disillusioned, confused, mentally deranged… and opening fire on innocent people? That’s the pattern we saw in the Columbine High School shootings in 1999, and it turned out that the shooters, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, were on psychiatric medications. (http://www.naturalnews.com/025826_A…)

In fact, numerous public shootings have been carried out by those who are either on psychiatric medications or who have recently stopped taking them (which can be just as dangerous in the short term). Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold talked about how their world had become like a dream, where they couldn’t tell the difference between the dream world and the waking world. Those are now virtually the same words as Jared Lee Loughner who, in his various ramblings, talked about “sleepwalking” during the day and “conscience dreaming [sic]” at other times.

While we have no proof yet that psychiatric drugs are involved here, we do see a very suspicious pattern of mental instability that suggests a likely connection. The sleepwalking behaviors Loughner describes are, in fact, common side effects of psychotropic drugs such as Ambien, which is famous for causing people to actually “sleep drive” into town and suddenly awake in the middle of the road, driving their car in their pajamas, with no knowledge of how they got there.

Notice how Adams says again and again that he has no evidence that Loughner was on psychiatric medications, and indeed there isn’t. But that doesn’t stop him from speculating wildly that he was on psychiatric medications and then wondering if those medications drove Loughner to murder. What’s particularly disgusting about Adams’ technique is that, while he apparently thinks he’s attacking big pharma and its products, namely psychiatric medications, in reality what Adams is doing is demonizing the mentally ill far more than those whom he attacks as doing so. He refers to Loughner as “deranged” and his crime an “act of madness.” He rails against the “mainstream media” for misrepresenting Loughner’s crime as being politically motivated. Actually, as much as I hate to admit it, Adams might have a bit of point there. Too many on both sides were a bit too eager to try to blame Loughner’s actions on politics, be they Tea Party politics or a couple of Facebook friends I have who are going on and on about how Loughner was supposedly a left winger. The problem is that Adams then goes to another extreme by dismissing any potential effects due to our toxic discourse altogether and then blame it all on big pharma:

Rather, this is really a story about mental illness in America, and the roots of this mental illness are undoubtedly partly found in these elements:

  • The chemical contamination of our food and water (fluoride, food additives, etc.)
  • Widespread nutritional deficiencies that promote mental illness
  • The scourge of the psychiatric drug industry and the widespread drugging of teens and children

… and also, quite possibly:

  • The “programming” of young males with extremely violent video games which are now also used in the military to desensitize young adults to the violence of killing. Loughner, by the way, was reportedly a military recruit.

Except that the news reports I saw last night told me that, although Loughner did try to join the military, he was rejected. The reason couldn’t be revealed because of privacy regulations.

Adams continues his despicable rant in the second article. After first decrying as “ridiculous” the charge that some have made that it is our toxic political discourse, tinged with violent rhetoric, was to blame for Loughner’s rampage. While some partisans have exaggerated this as a possible motivating factor, it’s not entirely unreasonable to think that, if if the rhetoric is ramped up enough, it might inspire violence, particularly in the case of someone with mental illness. Even so all Adams does is to substitute his own view of what caused Loughner’s rampage for this view, switching the scapegoat from politicians and pundits who promote hyperbolic, violent rhetoric to the U.S. government itself. After making the straw man argument that he implication from these kinds of stories is that “if you criticize the government, you therefore promote violence” (the implication is that using violent rhetoric can in some cases inspire mentally ill individuals to carry out violent acts), Adams tries to blame the government:

That is, of course, a silly idea, especially considering the fact that the government nearly always uses the threat of violence against its own citizens to get what it wants. To use the example of Obamacare, the law itself says that if citizens don’t buy health insurance, the U.S. government will essentially extract a large sum of money from you by force through the use of IRS agents and, if necessary, the government seizure of your assets.

On the health care front, remember it was the U.S. government that committed medical violence against children by forcing teens with cancer to undergo chemotherapy against their will (http://www.naturalnews.com/019617.html). Various local governments also routinely threaten vegan parents with having their children taken away by Child Protective Services if they don’t start feeding their children processed factory foods such as hamburgers.

In other words, Adams sees it as a double standard that people are justly outraged by Loughner’s violent outburst that left six people dead and 14 people critically wounded but are not just as outraged by what he sees as the violent depredations of government, particularly against what he sees as “natural remedies.” For instance, the reference to “forcing teens with cancer to undergo chemotherapy against their will” is about Abraham Cherrix. What Adams neglects to mention is that ultimately Cherrix was not forced to undergo chemotherapy. Rather, he was allowed to use an woo-friendly radiation oncologist, who basically gave Cherrix effective, but incomplete, therapy (radiation but no chemotherapy) plus whatever quackery Cherrix wanted. Cherrix was not forced to undergo chemotherapy against his will; he didn’t even come close to being forced to undergo chemotherapy against his will. That’s a red herring anyway. The difference between Loughner’s violent rampage and the government’s enforcement of laws is, well, laws. Laws and due process.

Of course, never content to take the grain of a reasonable view (that it is patriotic to question the government) and keep it reasonable, Adams has to crank the rhetoric up to 11 and claim that the criticism of violent rhetoric and Loughner’s act of violence is nothing more than a means for the government to tell us to shut up. And when Adams gets going on a train of thought (such as it is) like this, you know what’s coming next, don’t you? Of course you do:

If the mere act of questioning the integrity of the federal government is now going to be blamed for every violent act, then we truly live under a society where the insanity of Jared Loughner has infected the minds of the newsmakers, too. It is a cowardly act to hide behind these deaths in Arizona while shouting out, “The questioners caused this! No more questioning the government!” This is precisely what the government-controlled press announced in the Nazi era. Anyone who dared to ask questions about Hitler’s ever-expanding power was arrested and (usually) put to death.

I believe this is a time when, more than ever, we all need to be standing up and asking questions such as: Is the FDA’s censorship against healthy nutrition part of the reason we have so much mental illness in America?

Because trying to keep quacks from taking advantage of the American public by enforcing the law is exactly like persecution of dissidents in Nazi Germany. At least it is to Mike Adams. Apparently it’s the reason for mental illness as well. Apparently, to Adams, if we all just took fish oil supplements none of us would ever develop mental illness.

In the end, I strongly suspect that Adams doesn’t really believe the nonsense he lays down. It’s too histrionic and transparent even for him. Rather, I suspect that Adams is cynically taking advantage of the anti-government sentiment currently in ascendance in order to promote his “health freedom” agenda, which is really nothing more than promoting the freedom of quacks to victimize the gullible unmolested by pesky laws and regulations. Whether his rhetoric works or not to influence government policy, he still wins. If it influences government policy to weaken consumer protection laws, he wins because he’ll be able to sell more supplements and “natural” remedies. If it doesn’t influence government, Adams wins because he can paint himself as a martyr being “persecuted” by the government.

And he doesn’t care if he befouls the memory of those whom Loughner has killed to do it.

Comments

  1. #1 Drivebyposter
    January 10, 2011

    “The questioners caused this! No more questioning the government!”

    I don’t know how he makes the jump to that. Especially when basically everyone I have heard was blaming the people who promote (their own specific type of) government using violent imagery. Does Palin question the government?

    I’m fairly sure Laughner made more sense than Adams does.

  2. #2 MikeMa
    January 10, 2011

    As to the intro / history section of the post: I propose Adams find 10 people with pancreatic cancer that he convinces to follow his therapy. If more than half die of the disease in five years, he gets to STFU. Forever. If more than 8 die, he gets chemo. A lot of chemo. What a tool.

  3. #3 Ciaran
    January 10, 2011

    “numerous public shootings have been carried out by those who are either on psychiatric medications or who have recently stopped taking them” Wow amazing! He might be on to something here. I’ve also noticed that people who inject themselves with insulin are very likely to have diabetes, that must be the cause.

  4. #4 John Harrold
    January 10, 2011

    Heck, you want really crazy: David Frum blamed marijuana.

  5. #5 Man Called True
    January 10, 2011

    It’s becoming clearer every day that not only did the Hitler Zombie take Mike Adams’s brain, he ate the man’s flesh and turned him into one of his own.

    Now the Zombie of Mike Adams sits at a computer, Google Alert out for any public death, and his slowly-decaying muscles type out yet another screed, for it is the last dim memory of life as a living man.

    When the zombie dreams, as best he can, as he sleeps (again the best he can), he dreams of being a vulture, like the ones that circle his house.

    The last time he stepped outside one of them took his nose. He felt no pain, but attributed it to accidentally eating a “dead” carrot stick a few months ago.

  6. #6 Anonymous
    January 10, 2011

    You’ll notice that Adams is pushing CCHR, Scientology’s “Citizens Commission on Human Rights.” He’s been aligned with them for some time. Here’s an earlier example:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/027425_drugs_drugs_violence.html
    “Psych drugs cause violence. And the more psych drugs are prescribed, the more violence we’ll see.”

  7. #7 Militant Agnostic
    January 10, 2011

    @4 – and several months ago David Frum was fired by the right wing think tank that he worked for for being insufficiently insane.

    Adams may also be making a pre-emptive strike in anticipation of a crazy altie killing a doctor, regulator or scientist after being “inspired” by “Natural News”.

    The latest episode of the Pod Delusion podcast had an item on how Islamic militant groups exploit depressed people for suicide bombings.

    http://www.ipadio.com/mp3/9216/20110107115102.mp3

  8. #8 Anonymous
    January 10, 2011

    The truth of the matter is, Loughner was into some tinfoilly stuff that would be perfectly at home in the Mike Adams/Alex Jones universe. Adams really shouldn’t be throwing stones.

    “Welcome to the weird world of “:David-Wynn: Miller” and the “Mathematical Interface for Language.””

    “A visit to his website gives you a glimpse into the world of “QUANTUM-MATH-COMMUNICATIONS”:”
    http://gawker.com/5729241/why-was-jared-loughner-obsessed-with-grammar

  9. #9 René Najera
    January 10, 2011

    What’s the over/under on Adams eventually developing some form of cancer? I will bet Mr. Adams good money that no one in the science-based medicine community of bloggers, writers, and reporters will make fun of him or try to make money from him if he does. That’s what separates “crazy” from “sane”, in my opinion: rational versus irrational.

  10. #10 Denice Walter
    January 10, 2011

    More on Mike Adams:
    Remember, this is the dude who escaped “fascism” in the US for freedom from both governmental control *and* toxins in lovely Ecuador and urged his followers to do the same. However, he has recently abandoned hacienda for…. Tucson. ( I wonder why? What do we have that Ecuador doesn’t ?) I imagine that this tragedy happened virtually in his own backyard.
    Moreover, his rhetoric is far from pacifistic ( or mentally stable) e.g. his recent manifesto and New Year’s rants. Indeed, he may have found a new health freedom BFF in elder woo-meister and major league wanna-be demagogue, Gary Null, having recently appeared on the latter’s show at his personal vanity station( progressiveradionetwork archives; 1/3/11. 3PM) and having his own weekly woo-fest /info-mercial there as well.
    It appears both these “health freedom fighters” use the “horrors” of pharmaceuticals for mental illness ,as well as those of cancer chemotherapy, as a selling technique: ” Buy my supplements and you’ll never need nightmarish BigPharma products”- however, I sense that perhaps their hatred for interventions may be based on a deep-seated fear of both categories of illness. And their own helplessness and subjegation to the laws of biology. Mike probably takes massive amounts of supplements, “live foods”, and “super immunity boosters” as he exercises obsessively several hours a day- it’s also called ” whistling past the graveyard”.

  11. #11 Medicien Man
    January 10, 2011

    I agree with Adams. With the combination of flouride and aluminum, it’s a wonder we all aren’t nutty. Then of course there’s the new idea of mercury causing homosexuality proposed first here on Science Blobs at Dean’s Corner.

    If it were not for natural news, I could not keep up with what is going on in the world of natural therapies and what the FDA has its sights set on next.

    I personally thank Mike Adams for Natural news. Keep up the good work Mike! There are those of us who truly apprecieate alternatives to big pharma’s dangerous meds.

  12. #12 Richard Wolford
    January 10, 2011

    Yup, Mike has done so much good by swiping their money more efficiently than Pharma ever could; Pharma actually has to provide a working product, not so for Adams! Why you’re so smart Medicien Man, tell me, when are you going to inject yourself with pancreatic cancer cells, let them reach stage 4, and then cure yourself all naturally? Hmm, hmm? Any time now? How about AIDS, start with something easier?

  13. #13 novalox
    January 10, 2011

    God, isn’t there any death or tragedy that Mike Adams won’t take advantage of.

    All it does is make him and his followers look like idiots. But then again, Adams and his followers are living in their own la-la land, so I think they don’t give a damn who they insult.

  14. #14 Denice Walter
    January 10, 2011

    Orac outlines some of Adams’ “ideas” ( if I may so distinguish them with my extremely charitable appellation) about the causes of mental illness; a while back, he “enlightened” us with his “knowledge” of cognitive psychology- has this renaissance man no limits? a veritable William James**, he is! However, unfortunately he, like the other web woo-meisters, is read by many people who take his advice seriously, and may delay treatment.

    ** only joking- the comparison is the most absurd I could imagine.

  15. #15 Medicien Man
    January 10, 2011

    I will not inject myself with much of anything except B12 or vitamin C, maybe the occassional allergy shot or so.

    Big pharma gets to advertise their products on tv to consumers, not doctors. It should be illegal.

    Besides, Mike Adams is not forcing anyone to buy anthing. Indviduals make individual choices to try alternatives themselves. I guess individualism is something new to the collective far left. So is personal responsibility.

    I choose on my own free will to stay away from vaccines and most dangerous new meds. I will use older meds that are proven safe and effective.

    At any rate, people choose to go onto the Natural News on their own. No one forces them. If you don;t like Mike Adams, simply stay away from his site. Simple.

  16. #16 Clam
    January 10, 2011

    #11 Has got to be a Poe? Though maybe the flouride says not?

  17. #17 Clam
    January 10, 2011

    Crikey, #15 says no Poe! The guy’s a lunatic. The trouble is, I just couldn’t wish a disease on him to prove him wrong. I couldn’t be so callous. But he’s prepared to watch people die to support his woo?

  18. #18 Scott
    January 10, 2011

    Big pharma gets to advertise their products on tv to consumers, not doctors. It should be illegal.

    While this is a reasonable position (which a lot of people here agree with to one extent or another), it is incredibly hilarious to see it followed by:

    Besides, Mike Adams is not forcing anyone to buy anthing. Indviduals make individual choices to try alternatives themselves. I guess individualism is something new to the collective far left. So is personal responsibility.

    Direct-to-consumer pharma advertising doesn’t force anyone to buy anything either, so it should be OK by the same reasoning. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling.

    The REAL key distinction between the cases, of course, is that direct-to-consumer pharma advertising is TRUE, while Adams makes up whatever he feels like and lies through his teeth. It’s like equating your local credit union with Nigerian princes who need help getting money out of the country because they’re both offering financial transactions.

  19. #19 Mu
    January 10, 2011

    Only one way to describe it, he hit rock bottom, and started digging.

  20. #20 Calli Arcale
    January 10, 2011

    Medicien Man @ 15:

    Big pharma gets to advertise their products on tv to consumers, not doctors. It should be illegal.

    I completely agree. What I don’t agree is why you think Big Herbal gets a free pass from doing the exact same thing. In fact, it used to be that only OTC drugs could be advertised. Prescription drugs were verboten. Do you know what changed that? “Health freedom”. Yep. Loosening of laws to let alt-med be advertised more liberally without all that pesky evidence also allowed Big Pharma to market directly to the public for the first time since drug regulation began.

    Be careful what you wish for, in other words. You may wish for health freedom, but what you’ll get is a whole lotta salesmen trying to separate you from your money.

    Getting back on topic, Mike Adams is just another salesman looking for some cash. There’s no reason to trust him over the marketroids at Pfizer. (I might trust a Pfizer scientist, but it’s not their scientists that you get to hear. It’s the marketing people.)

  21. #21 Medicien Man
    January 10, 2011

    Herbals are an alternative to expensive and sometimes dangerous medications. Of course the wrong combinations of herbals can be dangerous too. However, it is up to the individual doing the purchasing to do his/her own research as to whether they should take the herbal or not.

    Ever heard of Plavix? It helps keep the blood pltelets from sticking together and forming unwanted clots. I am confident that plavix works, but for half the price and more benefits, Resveratrol does the same thing.

    Ever heard of Crestor or lipitor? They lower bad cholesterol while raising good cholesterol. Taking Niacin and Red Yeast Rice will be just as effective as well as not zapping nutrients from your system and saves money. If we were serious about healthcare costs we would try all available remedies, not just those that cost alot and have little benefit outside of their primary job.

    Many blood pressure medications zap B vitamins and some minerals from your system. Why not try an alternative first?

    Magnesium is known to slow arterioschlerosis. So does Resveratrol, Niacin, and a few other things. L-Proline, L-Choline, and Vitamin C combination can unclog arteries by dissolving plaque. Instead of this inexpensive alternative, doctors will choose the $80,000 bypass surgery option. That’s alot of money, pain, and suffering to go through when there is an economical and safer alternative available.

    Graviola is extremely powerul in its anti-cancer properties. So is pomegranate and many oher nutients. Besides, where do you think big pharma gets its drugs anyway? From plants! So, in short, by taking your expensive drugs you are just taking a glorified herbal supplement anyway.

    Scientists are now using Fish Oil (omega 3) to help with cholesterol problems. The problem is that you have to have a prescription for their fish oil. Why? I can get a bottle of Nordic for less than half and still have as much potency as the prescription stuff. it’s a rip off.

  22. #22 Passing Through
    January 10, 2011

    The little girl was born on Sept. 11th, 2001. I wonder if the troll will try to say that her birthday had something to do with it.

  23. #23 Jack
    January 10, 2011

    I think an important question about Mike Adams is whether a significant portion of people take him seriously. To us, he’s clearly just a rambler but anecdotal evidence (from the comments on his posts) says that there are many people who agree with him. In real life, luckily, I meet few people who seem to share such a deluded world view. Are there many people attracted by his way of thinking? If not, we could probably just dismiss him as a lonely crank. But if he has real influence on people then he may one day be indirectly responsible for death or serious disability.

  24. #24 Michael
    January 10, 2011

    “Indviduals make individual choices to try alternatives themselves. I guess individualism is something new to the collective far left. So is personal responsibility.”
    So if I encourage a known alcoholic to drink and something bad happens to him as a result, I’m not a bad person?

  25. #25 Scott
    January 10, 2011

    Herbals ARE expensive and sometimes dangerous medications. Of course the wrong combinations of herbals can be dangerous too. However, it is up to the individual doing the purchasing to GUESS as to whether they should take the herbal or not.

    Fixed that for ya.

    Herbs ARE drugs. The principal distinctions from those marketed AS drugs are that:

    – Nobody knows whether they actually work
    – Nobody knows how much you should take
    – Nobody knows what the side effects are
    – Nobody knows what interactions they have
    – Nobody knows what other gunk is in there besides the active ingredient

    Herbal medicines ought to be subject to EXACTLY the same requirements as any other drug.

  26. #26 Todd W.
    January 10, 2011

    @Scott

    You forgot

    - Nobody knows exactly how much active ingredient is in there

  27. #27 MI Dawn
    January 10, 2011

    What universe does medicien man live in where fish oil capsules requires a prescription? I can walk into any drug store and buy them (or supermegaboxstore and buy 500).

    Herbals can be great..WHEN the dose is known and the effect is known, we call that “medicine”. Taxol. Quinine/quinolone. Morphine. Aspirin. Digitalis. All started as herbals which were PROVEN by SCIENCE to have effect, were purified and dosage controlled so people knew/know how much they are getting.

    When they are pretty plants collected from the great outdoors, the dosage isn’t controlled and you could get just enough, too little, or way too much (thank you, three bears). I’ll stick with accurate dosing, which is “just right”.

  28. #28 DonZilla
    January 10, 2011

    We need to borrow the Tardis so all woomeisters can travel back to the 14th century. The food was organic, medicine was “natural,” people got plenty of exercise, fresh air and sunshine. No mass media to sway people’s “health choices.”

    Of course there was the whole Black Death thing going on, but I’m sure Mike could handle it.

  29. #29 Medicien Man
    January 10, 2011

    We do know that herbals work. People take them all the time. if they did not work, the people taking them would stop buying them. Does Tylenol work for a low grade ever or mild headache? Yes.

    Herbals and vitamin supplements are not drugs. They should not be treated as such. All the proper warning labels are in place. Let the individuals decide for themselves wether or not to take them. Stop being a dictator.

    You can go online now and look up any side effects of any herbal product on the market. For instance, if you take Licorice for peptic ulcers (yes it works), the side effect of taking too much of it over extended periods of time (more than 90 days) is the result in high blood pressure.

    We also know that some herbals cannot be mixed with certain medications. SAMe and 5-HTP should not be mixed with anti-depressants. Indidvidual responsibility for knowing these things and finding it out for your self trumps having government interference in private personal matters
    such as my health.

    Nobody knows what kind of “gunk” is in your miracle meds either. Human fetal cells? That’s always good to have in the flu vaccine. Thermosil? Mercury? Your meds sound wonderful.

    Herbals should be left alone. Individual sovereignty and privacy trumps government interference any day of the week. If you don’t like herbals, don;t take them. But sop dictating to those of us who do like them. You have no authority to tell us what we can do with our own body. If you treat abortion as such, then treat this as such as well.

  30. #30 Calli Arcale
    January 10, 2011

    Herbs ARE drugs.

    Hit the nail on the head, Scott. The only reason to label them differently is marketing, and that’s not a good reason for anybody except the people selling them.

    I agree with medicien man that actual regulated drugs are too expensive. That’s not a problem that less regulation will fix.

  31. #31 Anonymous
    January 10, 2011

    Jack @ 23,
    NaturalNews.com has 89,500 Facebook fans
    http://www.facebook.com/HealthRanger?v=wall
    The HealthRanger Twitter account has 8600 followers.

    According to Alexa internet traffic ranking, “Naturalnews.com… is ranked #1,178 in the US, where approximately 62% of its visitors are located, it is also popular in Australia, where it is ranked #1,094.”

  32. #32 Gray Falcon
    January 10, 2011

    We do know that herbals work. People take them all the time. if they did not work, the people taking them would stop buying them.

    So, since Buddhism has been around longer than Christianity, and has more adherents world-wide, will you consider converting?

  33. #33 Lawrence
    January 10, 2011

    So, herbal supplements “aren’t” drugs, yet you are saying the people take them to deal with illnesses….hmmmm…certainly sounds like they are drugs to me.

    And if people are using them as such, why shouldn’t they undergo the same kind of testing and quality control as the rest of the industry? Don’t you want to know that what you are taking is actually what it is supposed to be?

  34. #34 Matthew Cline
    January 10, 2011

    I’ve also noticed that people who inject themselves with insulin are very likely to have diabetes, that must be the cause.

    I argued with someone on the internet who claimed pretty much exactly that. Called type I diabetes “insulin addiction”.

  35. #35 Scott
    January 10, 2011

    People take them all the time. if they did not work, the people taking them would stop buying them.

    An individual can’t tell, so that is not true.

    Herbals and vitamin supplements are not drugs.

    Please explain how they are different.

    All the proper warning labels are in place.

    Please explain how it can be known what the proper warning labels are without proper testing.

    You can go online now and look up any side effects of any herbal product on the market.

    Please explain how these are known to be complete and accurate.

    Nobody knows what kind of “gunk” is in your miracle meds either.

    False; all contents are carefully documented.

    Human fetal cells? That’s always good to have in the flu vaccine. Thermosil? Mercury? Your meds sound wonderful.

    Fetal cells are not in vaccines. Thimerosal has been removed and was never a risk.

    Pop quiz: how many herbal products contain as much or more mercury than the entire vaccine schedule used to?

    Individual sovereignty and privacy trumps government interference any day of the week.

    Relying on individual judgement doesn’t work when those individuals have no access to information on which to make judgements.

    By the way, why aren’t you advocating that Big Pharma be allowed to market anything they happen to come up with, with no regulation or testing? Individual sovereignty and all that.

    Let’s also note that the #1 issue here is not one of individual choice, but FALSE ADVERTISING.

  36. #36 Richard Wolford
    January 10, 2011

    So Medicien Man, not willing to put up? So try shutting up. And figure out the difference between peddling herbal nonsense and selling actual medicine. Until you cure yourself using your natural “medicines”, you’re lacking any evidence for your position. Put up or shut up. No anecdotes, no testimonials, but proof that your natural remedies actually do a damn thing. My bet is the first time you get any type of serious diagnosis, such as cancer, your ass will be in the hospital.

  37. #37 Lawrence
    January 10, 2011

    Obviously, we all have an “oxygen addiction” too!

  38. #38 Todd W.
    January 10, 2011

    @Medicien man

    Pop quiz: what is the difference between the herb belladonna and the drug atropine?

  39. #39 DW
    January 10, 2011

    @ Jack : I don’t know how many people take him seriously, *but* he gets a lot of page views per article ( e.g. recently 90K; similarly, Mercola has gotten 160K), and he owns several companies ( “Better Life Goods”(?)- supplements and other products, “Truth” publishing, “Arial” software, *and* his NN site sells ad space); he recently put his Ecuador digs up for sale for $695K. I haven’t yet found financial data on his earnings but a similar web woo-meister has been reported to earn $10million-$10.9 gross yearly ( spoke.com/ manta.com). Thus, I surmize that many people must take them seriously enough to be “buying”** what these dudes are “selling”** enough to enrich them.

    ** in both senses of these terms.

  40. #40 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    January 10, 2011

    Ever heard of Plavix? … I am confident that plavix works, but for half the price and more benefits, Resveratrol does the same thing.

    Ever heard of Crestor or lipitor? … Taking Niacin and Red Yeast Rice will be just as effective as well as not zapping nutrients from your system and saves money.

    Magnesium is known to slow arterioschlerosis. So does Resveratrol, Niacin, and a few other things. L-Proline, L-Choline, and Vitamin C combination can unclog arteries by dissolving plaque.

    Graviola is extremely powerul in its anti-cancer properties. So is pomegranate and many oher nutients.

    Citations and studies, please?

  41. #41 David N. Brown
    January 10, 2011

    I live in Mesa, AZ, and I expect more talk about the state being a land of anarchists, gun nuts, racists, etc. I hope this doesn’t drown out the fact that there were fellow Arizonans who stood their ground against the shooter. And if people go on too long about Arizona being such a bad place, why not redirect their attention to Adams’ stump, and the fact that there are people willing to listen to him?

  42. #42 DonZilla
    January 10, 2011

    “All the proper warning labels are in place.”

    Like this one, the fine print accompanying many benefit claims listed on supplements and herbals:
    “This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.”

    And:

    “This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.”

    How generic can you get?

  43. #43 Drivebyposter
    January 10, 2011

    Everyone, it’s safe to ignore medicien man (I love the spelling).
    He’s only here to out-troll Sid and auger combined, not actually discuss or learn anything.

  44. #44 prn
    January 10, 2011

    Perhaps Orac should be careful about mixing his politics, his disagreement and disdain with ad hominem. I don’t know Orac’s personal position, but many doctors and the AMA have promoted “gun control”. Here, Orac comes across as one extreme fighting with the other extreme.

    The media initially seemed to be promoting or insinuating that the shooter was a Tea Party “right wing nut”. Reports in the news now indicate he was some kind of ill defined left wing pothead, with Mein Kampf and Marx as favorites.

    Points Adams appears to have a basis:
    1. America does seem to have a nasty case of “emerging police state” syndrome. Really, how many of even the (former) Soviet bloc countries *start(ed)* out with a TSA “boy’s toy inspection grab”?
    2. Psychiatry doesn’t appear to have a great fundamentals base, or track record. Most medical students seem to know this. Look at the low board scores of Psychiatry residents in choosing specialties and dismal cure rates.
    3. There **are** natural based adjuvants for cancer, long ignored or derided, that appear more advanced in use by some of our economic competitors, but we (the US) are trying hard to develop our own, “me too” products from the big names (e.g. MSKCC).
    4. Adams can play the odds on SSRI, etc. and likely “win” his point. We all have to wait and see.
    5. “Regular” medicine in the US appears to be behind on practical, therapeutic nutrition vs drugs when compared to some of the emerging economies’ doctors.

  45. #45 Jack
    January 10, 2011

    @prn #44

    I don’t know where you picked up gun control from… it wasn’t at all part of Orac’s post nor part of the conversation here. It’s not even one of Mike Adam’s “points”. May I answer some of your misguided thoughts?

    America does seem to have a nasty case of “emerging police state” syndrome. Really, how many of even the (former) Soviet bloc countries *start(ed)* out with a TSA “boy’s toy inspection grab”?

    The TSA has been a hot topic amongst the paranoid lately. How many of the countries in the soviet bloc allowed free speech and an unfettered media? How many allowed land ownership? The USA may have issues and I don’t like how over-the-top the TSA has become, but how does that justify shooting a bunch of people?

    Psychiatry doesn’t appear to have a great fundamentals base, or track record. Most medical students seem to know this. Look at the low board scores of Psychiatry residents in choosing specialties and dismal cure rates.

    Yup, the cure rates for some psychiatric diseases (especially psychotic disorders) are low to nil. Why would you not mention the amount of functional improvement in people who seek psychiatric care though? Oh right, because it would prove you wrong.

    There **are** natural based adjuvants for cancer, long ignored or derided, that appear more advanced in use by some of our economic competitors, but we (the US) are trying hard to develop our own, “me too” products from the big names (e.g. MSKCC).

    Examples and evidence please. I really hope you say “shark cartilage”. (A pubmed clinical query for “MSKCC” yields a very heterogeneous group of studies, most of which deal with synthetic chemotherapeutic agents. What are you talking about?)

    Adams can play the odds on SSRI, etc. and likely “win” his point. We all have to wait and see.

    Do you understand the difference between association and causation? There are many helpful people here who can explain if you need.

    “Regular” medicine in the US appears to be behind on practical, therapeutic nutrition vs drugs when compared to some of the emerging economies’ doctors.

    Your use of the english language is less than optimal here. Could you please explain what you mean? I can’t wait!

  46. #46 prn
    January 10, 2011

    @27, “…where fish oil capsules requires a prescription?”
    Highly purified and concentrated fish oils, like Lovaza or Amarin, with 99+% E-EPA in the pipeline, are marketed with drug claims and require a scrip.

    The point being missed here in the food (vitamins and some herbs) vs drug argument, is individuals’ claim of a right to use/choose their food, and medicine.

    The regulation of drug claims treads heavily on free speech to prescriptively prevent potential fraud. US regulation is the basis of high, monopolistic prices, and a lack of cheaper, better choices available in other countries.

  47. #47 anti psychotic
    January 10, 2011

    Actually, there is truth to medicine making people nuts, although I don’t know that it’s the case w/Loughner.

    An earlier comment said medication ingredients are “verified” but so what? Doctors don’t know what they do to people, at best it’s an educated guess obtained from testing a small group of HEALTHY people.

    Here’s an example of medication problems. A few years ago I complained of a “zap zap” sensation in my head. A doc said, ‘temporal lobe epilepsy’ and put me on Tegretol. I took it briefly. A year later I still had the problem and talked to a neurologist, told her of previous ‘diagnosis’ and that I didn’t know if that’s what it really was, just that the doc said it.

    I’m sent to a hospital for this fancy 24 hr monitoring for epilepsy. They try to induce the “zaps” by removing my psych meds (Effexor). Conclusion after the zap doesn’t show on the monitor – psychological seizures. WTF. Now, my file labels me as crazier cause the doctor REFUSED to read the withdrawal symptoms of Effexor when I said hey, THIS sounds exactly like what I feel…after 4 years off of that hell medication that gave me withdrawals for months, I don’t have the zap zap.

    Medications ARE dangerous. Doctors assume we’re all the same. Samples are small for the amount of people who get the medication. (example, Suboxone)

    Mercola has some interesting things to say. I don’t see how you can doubt ALL of this stuff.

    Our food IS poisoned. Poor people are fatter than people w/money because they have crappy food options. It’s crazy to think big pharma is always on the up and up. I read not to take a new medication within the 1st 5 years it’s out because that’s when the real study on side effects begin.

    Statins are the biggest sham in medicine right now. Plenty of studies about their harmful effects.

    Arizona IS a white dominant, racist state that perpetuates violence, and offers little in the way of help for those who may be below the status quo, mentally ill, addicted, etc. I think that this shooting has the potential to be used for “good” if, and that’s a big if, people would look at the state of the nation and see it’s pretty bad.

    I don’t think there’s anyone to believe in anymore.

  48. #48 Medicien Man
    January 10, 2011

    Jesus was present at creation over 6500 years ago. So, He existed long before we mortals did. Including Buddha.

  49. #49 Jack
    January 10, 2011

    @DW #39

    So he’s deluded and dangerous. Damn.

  50. #50 Gray Falcon
    January 10, 2011

    Clearly, Medicien Man, you are reading the posts, so please answer the following question: Where is your evidence? Same with “anti psychotic”. Listen to this: “With the combination of flouride and aluminum, it’s a wonder we all aren’t nutty.” If the human body was as vulnerable as you say it is, we’d all be dead and insane by now simply from the natural amounts of those minerals.

    Also, because of the cyclical nature of existence, then Buddha’s been around for billions of years, if one can consider “time” to be something that applies to the Enlightened (at least according to some Buddhists).

  51. #51 Matthew Cline
    January 10, 2011

    Medicine Man once posted in (seeming) seriousness a link to a clearly photo-manipulated image of someone holding a sign reading “Death to those who insult Obamacare”, when the original was “Death to those who insult Muhammad”. So I’m not so sure it’s worthwhile even talking to him.

  52. #52 prn
    January 10, 2011

    @45 Jack
    Your apparent understanding of the english language is less than optimal here.

    Given the years of strident AMA anti-gun politics, the immediate, erroneous “right wing” speculative “error” in the press, gun control is an implicit discussion on any medical related blog about a massacre. After all, with a reflexively prescriptive government, if they don’t blame the SSRIs, some will be eyeing everyone’s guns.

    Before you mention “paranoid” again, we already have TSA with their hand routinely in people’s pants. Not even the Soviets pulled that crap when I was presumably a potential (US corporate cover) “spy” and an ongoing revolt, with guns and heavier stuff, was in progress a few miles away from the airport. Interestingly, they were more afraid of cameras (likely) than guns (suicidal). Growing up in a somewhat more free and naive America, TSA’s present violations were not even conceivable.

    “TSA amongst the paranoid …I don’t like how over-the-top the TSA has become”
    I’m sure some Russians/Germans didn’t like it when their neighbors were rounded up, either. “land ownership”, “free speech and an unfettered media” in the US are rapidly being diminished by various means. Everyone has already lost their personal privacy to unsanitary violations without specific cause.

    “…how does that justify shooting a bunch of people?”
    It doesn’t. You missed the entire article’s object, as well as mine, substituting the gunman in place of (Orac on) Adams. That suggests your presumption or lack of comprehension.

    [natural based adjuvants for cancer, long ignored ...trying hard to develop our own, "me too" products]
    I really hope you say ‘shark cartilage’.
    MSKCC, MIT and others have papers and patents on beta D glucan and glycan extracts. China and Japan, depending on how you count, have been ahead a few decades, or millennia, on medical applications that we are approaching, slowly, with lots of biotech market action.

    Yup, the cure rates for some psychiatric diseases (especially psychotic disorders) are low to nil. Why would you not mention the amount of functional improvement in people who seek psychiatric care though? Oh right, because it would prove you wrong.
    I’ve seen psychiatrists miss myxoedema (nominally an extinct 19th century horror). It used to be cured with a 5 cent natural T3-T4 product, $X000 per year of anti-psychotics merely damp some symptoms. The “cave-man” mucin pads quickly disappear.

    “Regular” medicine in the US appears to be behind on practical, therapeutic nutrition vs drugs… They prescribe nutrients current American doctors have little (no) formal training or experience with. Applications where immediate relief is expected.

    “Do you understand the difference between association and causation?
    If “SSRI’s, etc” are established as part of a continuing pattern, Adams gains (temporary) conversational plausibility. In catastrophic safety matters, only a Darwin award candidate waits for academic/criminal levels of “proof”. If you doubt me, just ask the FDA about some of the things that *have been* yanked without waiting around. re ” “, I’m also dissatisfied with the association of “proof” and p=0.05 with heterogeneous metastudies. Trying to be practical, p<0.001 with tighter test designs and homogeneity, then we can talk.

    You really just don’t know, Jack.

  53. #53 Matthew Cline
    January 10, 2011

    Given the years of strident AMA anti-gun politics, the immediate, erroneous “right wing” speculative “error” in the press, gun control is an implicit discussion on any medical related blog about a massacre.

    So if a medical blogger makes a post on whether or not psychiatric drugs led someone to shoot people with a gun, they have to add an explicit “this isn’t about gun control” disclaimer?

  54. #54 Jack
    January 10, 2011

    @prn 52

    1) Gun control is clearly your issue, not Orac’s. Not every physician agrees with every AMA position and you have no reason to assume Orac’s position. Especially when the topic wasn’t even tangentially mentioned.

    2) If you think you can honestly equate the TSA with Nazis (“I’m sure some Russians/Germans didn’t like it when their neighbours were rounded up“) then there’s a certain zombie I think you will soon have the pleasure of meeting.

    3) China and Japan, depending on how you count, have been ahead a few decades, or millennia, on medical applications
    Any of those applications been shown to have efficacy in phase III trials yet? If so, they will be used by the scientific medical community… hardly supporting Adams’ point of view.

    4) You’ve seen myxedema missed by a psychiatrist? Congratulations! I’ve seen eczema herpeticum missed by a naturopath. What’s your point? Are you using a single physician’s failure to damn an entire discipline? I’ve never seen a psychiatrist start any treatment without doing thyroid function tests. And then if the patient is hypothyroid, they are corrected (with purified thyroxine, not “natural T3-T4 product”). They also usually have a full medical workup plus or minus neuroimaging. The case you saw was clearly somebody practicing far outside the standards of his field.

    5) You do realize that you’re using the same faulty logic as the antivaxxers, right? People are prescribed SSRIs for psychiatric illnesses so why would you assume that the SSRI, rather than the underlying illness, is responsible for whatever effects you think they are? Do you know about post-marketing surveillance? These things are already monitored… nobody needs you and Mike Adams to come around and start making wild guesses. Nobody hid or missed the fact that there is increased suicidal ideation in people (especially adolescents) who have recently started SSRIs. If they were really causing people to go on shooting rampages, why would your conjecture be better than a case-control study? Only a Darwin Award candidate stops using a very efficacious treatment with no evidence whatsoever that the effect he thinks exists actually exists.

  55. #55 WMDKitty
    January 11, 2011

    I’m wondering, if Mr. Adams is so sure of his “natural” therapies, would he be willing to let me move in with him for one month, free of psychiatric medications, and deal with the results?

    The “results” being severe depression, anxiety, insomnia, no appetite, and vomiting and diarrhea…

  56. #56 David N. Brown
    January 11, 2011

    @48:
    I’m not sure if this person is trying to indicate he/she lives in Arizona, and MY standard joke about the state is that the population can be divided into fascists, anarchists, polygamists and illegal immigrants, so I will go a little easy. Still, I have to stand up for where I live. We may be nuts, and we do seem to have a surplus of guns around, but we can mind our own business, and we can stand up for each other, however much we disagree. This morning, the local paper had a front page story on those who helped Rep. Gifford and captured Loughner, and this is one time I’m proud to live here.

  57. #57 Midnight Rambler
    January 11, 2011

    anti psychotic @47: There’s a big difference between distrusting individual clinical doctors (which ends up being most of them, in my experience) and distrusting the entire process of science and medicine. Mercola, Adams, et al. do the latter.

    I have real temporal lobe epilepsy, and I have almost no trust in what doctors say to me about it. There are two problems with epilepsy in particular: 1) no two people with it are the same, and 2) it’s vastly understudied relative to the number of people who have it, probably because it’s rarely fatal or seriously debilitating (unless there it’s resulting from serious brain damage, in which case there are bigger things to worry about). I also live in Hawaii, where finding a good doctor is like finding a performance of the Vagina Monologues in Afghanistan. I do my own research about medications – in the pharmaceutical literature, not on quack sites – and experiment with drug levels to the extent that it’s safe. It pays to keep yourself informed and challenge your doctor, but on the basis of evidence, not the say-so of quacks.

  58. #58 sidhe3141
    January 11, 2011

    Okay, let’s see…
    Faulty analogy! Drink!
    Correlation equals causation! Drink!
    Unsubstantiated claim! Drink!
    Think Of The Children! Drink!
    Contamination Of Our Precious Bodily Fluids! Drink!
    Nutrition and mental illness! Drink!
    Big Pharma! Drink!
    Video Games: Ban This Sick Filth! Drink!
    Tangential rant against politicians you don’t like! Drink!
    Taxation is violence! Drink!
    Medicine is violence! Drink!
    Blatant Lies! Drink!
    Taking kids away from vegan parents! Drink!
    Slippery slope! Drink!
    Godwin! Two drinks!
    Nutrition and mental illness! Drink!
    I already drank for that! Drink!
    Have finished bottle. Now giggling uncontrollably. Suspect that I may have somehow gotten drunk on tap water.

  59. #59 Midnight Rambler
    January 11, 2011

    Be careful, that 30C homeopathic alcohol will get you drunk fast!

    BTW, I’m surprised Adams didn’t suggest Giffords should be treated with homeopathic bullets (scroll down a ways, but don’t click through to the original source; he apparently gets paid per hit).

  60. #60 prn
    January 11, 2011

    @54 Jack
    1. I said at the start I didn’t know Orac’s position on guns. I simply said it sounded in passing like two extremes were arguing. Perhaps Orac can accept my comment as a compliment – a la “one extreme, of course, being that dangerous, dumb antivaxx sob, My-kie, I’m proud of that.” [chest out]

    2. I’ve never experienced TSA’s current level of intrusiveness elsewhere, in Soviet or infamous third world places, and from what we’ve seen, it doesn’t look like especially effective security.

    3. Yes, phase III scale testing. 20+ years and not in official US medical use yet, although an expensive (20-40x) substitute homebrew may be available here in a few years. If you need it now, “dying to have known” or knowing, doing without, is not a trival concern. You seem not to be familiar with the large capital requirements for new drug registrations, where many good [old, natural, and/or new] molecules go neglected.

    4.myxedema missed…
    It wasn’t just a single physcian, just some worse than others across decades, missed entirely vs entirely inadequate treatment. Turns out TSH is a poor test for some T3 related problems. Even the endocrinologists have reluctantly acknowledged some TSH problems by shifting the recommended TSH cutoff, downwards, *several times*. anti-TPO, free T3-T4, etc testing are not that common. The upshot is that a few mcg of T4 may just bounce off, if not converted to adequate amounts of T3. There seem to be a lot of long suffering patients who are dissatisfied with current T4 only protocols, victims that have only gotten relief with T3 content, and possibly other thyroid components.
    “The case you saw was clearly somebody practicing far outside the standards of his field.”
    The original prescriber got results, physiologically, measured 4x daily, mentation, on blood work, and there are various peer reviewed papers that do support T3 containing preps. The others doctors didn’t get results, although 1-2 priors seemed to have started very low on T4. The thyroid scrip has been signed off on by two other board certified MDs.

    I have no direct medical experience with naturopaths, or such herpes.

    5. same… as the antivaxxers
    Sounds like rampant personal presumptions again. I am not antivax, I’ve probably had vaccines that you haven’t had, my kids were all vaccinated. I am slightly more selective now, but I strongly maintain my right to be (s)elective. I might even prefer oral to IM polio vaccine series…

    “nobody needs you…if [SSRI]…were really causing people to go on shooting rampages…using a very efficacious treatment”
    Jack, you do realize that there is an FDA “black box warning” since 2005 for SSRI under age 24, with similar warnings in Japan and UK, after a long series of unusual SSRI related incidents up to 2004, don’t you???

  61. #61 Jack
    January 11, 2011

    prn,

    That’s some wonderful misinterpretation of the black box warning. I already mentioned that increased suicidality is a risk and that’s exactly what’s mentioned on the black box warning. The “unusual behaviour” line refers to suicidal intent and perhaps conversion to mania. It does not refer to homicidal intent and there’s no evidence that it should.

    I never said that you are antivax (although calling yourself “selective” is a little revealing) – you should read it again. What I said is that the logic you (or Adams) use to raise fear around SSRIs (pointing to perceived correlations that have never been shown to be statistically associated) is the same logic that anti-vaxxers use to “raise questions” about vaccines.

    By the way, a pubmed search back to 1986 didn’t bring up any RCTs about beta-glycans and cancer. There were some that show that it doesn’t effect LDL or HDL however. Please put up the PMID so that we can all evaluate this large scale trial.

  62. #62 prn
    January 11, 2011

    Kid wrote his goodbyes. Legally, homocide, but his expectation sounds like, “suicide by cop”.

    I don’t agree that “cautionary experience,” or conflicting analyses, are fear mongering.

    The term “beta glucan”, more specific than “beta glycans” can have many “alsos”. e.g. one plant’s or higher fungal extract or isolate. In Japanese, Chinese, Korean, or Russian. They are there. The future one that I referred is the clinical trial for Biothera’s Imprime PGG, accruing patients now.

  63. #63 threedegreesbelowzero
    January 11, 2011

    Very interesting reading. Everything around us is composed of chemicals in some combination. The study of modern medicine is in its’ infancy. We must understand this. Are we lab rats for pharmaceutical cos. Sadly , that seems to be the case.
    Psych meds can perform miracles for those who really need them. Who decides this, a qualified psychiatrist and the patient. Psych meds are soooooo overprescribed it is shameful. These medicines are given out by primary care physicians ( they should not be allowed to do so), and people who don’t need them are swallowing them like Pez. When a patient who does not require medication ( for example someone who is depressed for a damn good reason, sorry that’s life in 3d ) these medications can cause brain chemical instability which can lead to awful behaviors, and yes murder.
    What is the cause and treatment of cancer. When we eat processed food, breathe pollution, are bombarded by radiation,and injest chemicals, chemicals which our bodies dont recognize as bio identical ( meaning something that our cells recognize as being of the natural earth ) we do not know how to process through these chemicals and eliminate them naturally. These chemicals which are not elimated by the body, damage our cells and voila,cancer. Virus’ also cause several yucky kinds of cancer. The cure is prevention. If one has lived a healthy life, and still succumbs to cancer, then natural cures are the best first line of defense. If they dont work, sometimes they don’t, one can either choose chemo or death. Sometimes chemo works, if the treatment doesn’t kill you.
    If there are any ingredients in the food that you are eating that you can’t pronounce, please dont eat it. ok.

  64. #64 threedegreesbelowzero
    January 11, 2011

    Very interesting reading. Everything around us is composed of chemicals in some combination. The study of modern medicine is in its’ infancy. We must understand this. Are we lab rats for pharmaceutical cos. Sadly , that seems to be the case.
    Psych meds can perform miracles for those who really need them. Who decides this, a qualified psychiatrist and the patient. Psych meds are soooooo overprescribed it is shameful. These medicines are given out by primary care physicians ( they should not be allowed to do so), and people who don’t need them are swallowing them like Pez. When a patient who does not require medication ( for example someone who is depressed for a damn good reason, sorry that’s life in 3d ) these medications can cause brain chemical instability which can lead to awful behaviors, and yes murder.
    What is the cause and treatment of cancer. When we eat processed food, breathe pollution, are bombarded by radiation,and injest chemicals, chemicals which our bodies dont recognize as bio identical ( meaning something that our cells recognize as being of the natural earth ) we do not know how to process through these chemicals and eliminate them naturally. These chemicals which are not elimated by the body, damage our cells and voila,cancer. Virus’ also cause several yucky kinds of cancer. The cure is prevention. If one has lived a healthy life, and still succumbs to cancer, then natural cures are the best first line of defense. If they dont work, sometimes they don’t, one can either choose chemo or death. Sometimes chemo works, if the treatment doesn’t kill you.
    If there are any ingredients in the food that you are eating that you can’t pronounce, please dont eat it. ok.

  65. #65 Scott
    January 11, 2011

    Care to provide any facts to back up your little rant there?

  66. #66 Medicien Man
    January 11, 2011

    I think I am going to contact Mike Adams and have him mass email all his supports and customers and the I’ll mass emial all of mine and the we’ll get them all on here to drive you people crazy. That would be fun. As a matter of fact, it would serve you right for talking about him so bad.

  67. #67 Jack
    January 11, 2011

    prn,

    You’ll note that the clinical trial you refer to is using PGG beta-glucan along with monoclonal antibodies . There is no comparison to a placebo group. This is because the therapies we have right now are effective compared to placebo and this trial is trying to increase their effectiveness. There is no envy of ancient chinese medicine here, merely a possible appropriation of a derivative of a natural product that may be useful when combined with our current therapies. Also, it’s a phase 2 trial, not a phase 3 trial like you claimed. Unless you’re referring to something else. It’s really hard to tell because you never link to your sources nor give us easy to follow references.

    Which brings me to my next point… don’t tell me to broaden my search until I come up with something that supports your point. Instead, show me the study and I’ll be more willing to listen.

    Finally, to close the conversation on SSRIs, suicidality is reported only in the first few weeks after initiation of therapy. Further, even if his goal was “death by cop”, he still planned to commit homicide and that is absolutely not the reported side effect of SSRIs (which, let’s remind ourselves, we don’t even know if he’s on). There are many ways to kill yourself without killing other people. Had he jumped in front of a train, you may have had a point.

  68. #68 Chris
    January 11, 2011

    The ever morphing electronics technician troll:

    I’ll mass emial all of mine

    Why haven’t you figured out how to get a spell check on your browser? Really, why? Do you have some kind of cognitive block that prevents you from downloading something like FireFox Mozila or even the Google Toolbar?

    And what makes you thing that sending people here is bad? Every time someone read this page Orac gets a couple of cents. Are you really trying to increase his income? Actually, that is quite generous. Thank you!

  69. #69 threedegreesbelowzero
    January 12, 2011

    hi scott

    yes facts are a wonderful thing. however this is a forum for discussion not a repeat performance of my dissertation. My credentials are, ( accredited btw, not mail order ) ND, PhD. These rants are my observations in a teeny weenie nutshell, after 20 years of full time practice.

  70. #70 Gray Falcon
    January 12, 2011

    Mr. threedegreesbelowzero, we don’t care about your credentials, and even if we gave points for them, an ND would have negative value. This is a forum for discussion, as you say, so give us some evidence we can discuss. Twenty years of full time practice doesn’t count, you might simply be unconsciously ignoring everything that doesn’t support your beliefs.

  71. #71 Chris
    January 12, 2011

    Exactly, Gray Falcon. We don’t let Dr. Jay get away with his cries that his thirty years can substitute for evidence, so there is no reason to let a Not a Doctor try the same lame gambit.

  72. #72 threedegreesbelowzero
    January 13, 2011

    Ahhh.. I am new here. Yes I too love facts and studies as evidence for scientific verification of healing processes and protocols. I was just blowing off some steam… . As it is my opinion that Mr Adams is entitled to his opinion. It is also my opinion, that there are those people who will choose whichever mode of medicine they see fit for themselves, even if it means drinking their own urine. To each his/her own. Opinions should not be policed.
    If a person chooses to follow his advice, and his advice only, as sole consideration for a cancer as rare and incidious as Merkel Cell Carcinoma, for example; as my children say ” sucks for them “. It is not our concern.

  73. #73 Bill
    January 14, 2011

    Just three points:
    Psychiatric Medication is rarely the choice of the ‘consumer’ and frequently administered against the consumer’s will and in spite of serious long term side effects that cause disease and premature death.
    Just because the guy is clearly wrong about a lot of things does not make psychiatric medications right. The actions of people like Adams and Scientologists have prevented Psychiatrists from taking a good look at themselves. “They are quacks so we are right” is not logic.
    Psychiatric drugs do cause alterations to brain chemistry the same way that recreational drugs do. You would not see anyone trying to deny that a heroin addict goes through serious withdrawal symptoms if you take the drugs away. The same thing happens with psychiatric medication. Anyone given these drugs will become very erratic at some stage if the drugs are suddenly withdrawn.

  74. #74 sparkling supernova
    July 29, 2011

    Thanks for taking on Mike Adams. He’s a snake oil salesman as far as I can see. I have tried to see how he might simply be sincerely misguided, but no, he’s too smart – he’s pretty much gotta be a sociopathic shyster. Part of me wants to kick his slimy money-grubbing a__.

  75. #75 April
    February 14, 2012

    READ THIS! IT COULD CHANGE YOUR LIFE!!!

    The fact that one would trust medicine, by definition, a toxin in some way to the body, over herbs or supplements, that have been proven or thousands of years is just baffling to me. Before Drs gave toxic drugs, Drs gave HERBS to cure disease, Do some basic history!!!! Back in the day when we used to eat GOOD food, we ate fish… with… fish oil in it and fresh grown fruits and vegetables. Supplements are nothing more than high doses of beneficial compounds in foods that we used to eat… when cancer, diabetes, heart disease didn’t exist!!! For you people that think natural cures are a joke, I challenge you to take 2 hours of your day to look up videos of people that had cancer or any other “uncurable” disease, went through treatment, were still gonna die and decided to change there diet and take supplements (vitamins) and they are ALIVE and healthy!!!!! 2 hours, listening to peoples stories!!
    —————————————————-
    I have PERSONALLY seen friends and family with diabetes, heart disease, lupus, and chrones disease CURE themselves with diet and in most cases few supplements. Drugs are called drugs for a reason, they made them sicker. Covering up symptoms is not medicine, it’s easy and a money maker. __________________________________________________
    And to those of you that thinks Mike Adams makes a ton of money EDUCATING the public! If you took the time to read his stuff or listen to him you would realize he works way more than ANY pharmaceutical big shots EVER will. But… you would have to read something to find that out, something other than filtered, mainstream media lies. He has proof on his website! He takes times to post FDA documents, public drug company records, links to FDA articles proving negligence. Ask the pharm company for evidence that Gardisil is not killing, paralyzing and permanently disabling girls and now boys, they won’t be able to. Ask them for proof that the flu vaccine works, they won’t. I could go on… ————————————————————Take a look around at the people on medications, than take a look at people using supplements and eating healthy. It’s a no brainer really. Look at Mike Adams facebook page and look at pictures of his followers, they are NOT sick (unless they just heard about him). I was once in the dark and now I see, without Mike Adams and internet freedom my daughter starting at the age of three would be sick and on DRUGS. She 9, eating whole foods (real food), taking fish oil, drinking fresh juice in the morning, eating Kefir (B_vit and probitics)and HEALTHY, hasn’t gotten sick in 3 years!! ————————————————————That is why I listen to Mike Adams! He did not start natural news to make money, unlike the drug companies CEOs that make hundreds of thousands, enough money to buy TV ads that you believe so you will keep bashing Mike Adams and believing them. Follow the money trail and you will ALWAYS find the truth!! ————————————————————
    All these judgements of Mike Adams with no proof, just opinion. I dare you to go to his page and read more than the shocking articles, of which I don’t agree fully on his approach, but see where he is coming from because I’m sure many of your family and friends are dying of cancer as well and WE want to change that. I am not on here to make money. I am a single, homeschooling, stay at home mom who is taking my hand at farming this year. I took 30 mins out of my time this morning so that MAYBE one less person could die of cancer or heart disease. One less family memeber having to suffer, would be worth this 30 mins. ————————————————————-Mike Adams Is saving peoples lives, just go on his facebook page to see TONS of people taking about how he has changed their life!! Their are tins of articles, not just these, search for them, do yourself a favor.
    ——————————————————–
    Again, I repeat, not doing this, spending an hour of my on the computer, to make but in hopes that less people will die at the hands of conventional medicine. My mom once thought I was crazy, but now she is chronic depression free, off medication, and feeling great. How did she do it, diet, exercise and supplements!! If I could change here mind and her life, I figure why not yours.
    ——————————————————– START HERE… Everybody loves Oprah right… http://www.oprah.com/health/Can-a-Plant-Based-Diet-Cure-Cancer/2
    ____________________________________
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttm3q7kweL4 Story of a stage 4 cancer survivor
    —————————————–
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/08/06/why-we-dont-have-a-cure-for-cancer-yet-or-
    do-we.aspx?fb_ref=fbLike&fb_source=other_multiline
    (how the drug companies suppress natural cures and make you all think Mike Adams and his followers are crazy.)

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