Yesterday, I learned of how animal rights terrorists are targeting college students as the “soft underbelly of the vivisection movement.” As an example of their new strategy, these thugs gloated over the “recantation” by a Florida Atlantic University student named Alena Rodriguez, who, because of her e-mail to a Negotiation Is Over editor named Ghazal Tajalli rejecting her request to become involved in an animal rights event, was targeted for a campaign of intimidation, smears, and harassment. As a result, Rodriguez was sufficiently terrified that she basically gave the thugs what they wanted: An apology and statement promising not to do animal research. The animal rights loons at NIO had won using logic like this:

Or so it seemed to them.

Perhaps they should not be so confident. Their despicable and cowardly attacks on Rodriguez have mobilized support for her. Also, as Speaking of Research points out, students are not the easy targets that Camille Marino and Ghazal Tajalli apparently think that they are:

Though NIO may refer to students as the “Soft bellied target of the vivisection complex” who “can be shut down with relative ease,” they should study their history. In the winter of 2005, the ALF launched a campaign that targeted students at Oxford University in the UK, declaring them to be “legitimate targets”. Did the students bow to the threats and arson attacks on their facilities? Not a chance! The students responded by launching the Pro-Test movement in support of animal research, and gave the ALF a drubbing which helped to turn the tide against AR extremism in the UK. The hate and lies of the ALF were simply no match for the solidarity shown by students and scientists at Oxford.

Similarly, the extremists at NIO may claim one victory, but they fail to see how much dedication they create at the exact same time.

Moreover, NIO is apparently too deluded or fanatical to realize that threatening college students could backfire on them spectacularly. First off, if NIO ever directly harms a student, it is likely to cause far more revulsion in the very people that Marino and company think they can persuade. Second, such threats are likely to goad universities into action in a way that they haven’t been goaded in the past. As Earle Holland points out :

In recent years, universities have been moving away from a historic role of “in loco parentis,” where the institution served in lieu of parents far away. Students, as well as administrators, are more comfortable now with the notion that students are young adults.

But if Camille or others think that universities will stand idly by while animal rights activists abuse and harass their students, they are sorely mistaken. The fact that institutions have been reserved on this issue in the past isn’t evidence that they will allow acts against students.

Camille’s miscalculation may well awaken sleeping giants.

I certainly hope so. It is not clear how much support FAU has provided Alena. Perhaps it was not enough. Perhaps FAU has never faced a situation like this before. What NIO has done, however, should arouse university administrators at every university that does significant biomedical and biological research. NIO has revealed its hand, and that hand is wearing brass knuckles. Universities need to act now to protect their students before those brass knuckles are covered in blood.

ADDENDUM: Former ScienceBlogger Janet Stemwedel points out the vile nature of Camille Marino’s tactics.

Comments

  1. #1 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    March 31, 2011

    Why do people think Sean is a /b/-tard or other Anon? Seriously, it’s bizarre. I mean, sure, he’s probably not a model, but the population of non-models and /b/-tards is hardly a perfect overlap.

    Sean, what you are is fucking stupid. You don’t know what science is, you don’t know what vivisection is, you don’t know what morals are, and you don’t know what terrorism is.

    You and Janis should go fuck yourselves, as should Lisa Grossman and Camille Marino. Get out of the way and let the adults do their work so some suffering will be reduced in the world.

  2. #2 Raging Bee
    March 31, 2011

    Scott: why not ban the bullies and lunatics and leave their offending posts up as evidence of their true character? Shutting out the bullies does not have to mean hiding all traces of their presence. Just leave their odiously revealing posts up, announce they’ve been banned, and let the conversation go on without them.

  3. #3 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    science?

    please ban me.

    that would be amazing. please deny my right to free speech.

  4. #4 Gray Falcon
    March 31, 2011

    Yeah, the first amendment only deals with the government’s authority. This is the blog owner’s territory, and banning you would be his authority alone. You could start your own blog if you still wanted.

  5. #5 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    March 31, 2011

    that would be amazing. please deny my right to free speech.

    So in addition to failing at science, biology, and the internet, as well as modeling, you suck at law. Color me unsurprised. Your right to free speech means the government can’t take your ability to speak in a public place away.

    It’s not an obligation that everyone allow every moron with a megaphone to use /their personal/ forum. Orac can’t take away your right to freedom of speech (That is, your right to get a political or otherwise message out to the public), but he damn sure doesn’t have to facilitate it on what is effectively his property.

  6. #6 Yojimbo
    March 31, 2011

    Wow – sean michael appears to be another doofus who doesn’t understand what the right to free speech is all about. Why are they so common?

  7. #7 Narad
    March 31, 2011

    So, wait, 6’1″ and you weigh 133? What do you model, Beanpole, overalls and straw hats?

  8. #8 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    I HAVE my own wordpress blog dealing with animal activism, and shutting down huntingdon life sciences.

    it’s pushing close to 5,000 views in three months.

  9. #9 Lawrence
    March 31, 2011

    Of course, as a lover of free speech, he has no problem advocating actions that deny the rights of other individuals.

  10. #10 Heliantus
    March 31, 2011

    @ Scott

    ARA’s must really have a hell of a dilemma watching national geographic. If you really want see some animal torture going on that’s the place. I mean the way those lions chase down gazelles

    We can also talk about cats – lion cubs or you house kitty – playing with a live prey. Or killer whales chasing their whale prey to exhaustion, before eating its tongue while the whale is helpless but alive.
    Yep, loving Mother Nature has a sadistic streak.

    Now, a number of ARAs have found the solution: teach their pets to become vegans. From that I read on Pharyngula, the dear Camille starved her cat to death in doing so.
    I have mixed feelings about animal experimentation – to paraphrase Jean Bernard (a professor from my country), animal experimentation is morally justified and justifiably immoral.
    But I know where I stand with the moronic owner of an abused pet.

  11. #11 Michael Crichton
    March 31, 2011

    Troll: I HAVE my own wordpress blog dealing with animal activism, and shutting down huntingdon life sciences.

    And I’m _sure_ you’ve never “denied the first amendment rights” of any poster by moderating their comments. Post the url so we can see for ourselves, please.

  12. #12 sophia8
    March 31, 2011

    what the hell is /b/?
    Sean, there’s this great little website called google.com. Maybe you’ve heard of it? You go there, paste something into the box, hit ‘enter’, and hey presto! Your question is answered.

  13. #13 Lynxreign
    March 31, 2011

    @200 “sean michael”

    Excellent, you also don’t understand the concept of free speech.

    You’re not a model (nor do you look like one, Barbazon won’t be calling).

    You’re a pathetic teenager looking to get some fun by pissing people off. Sad, lonely and can’t even keep his story straight. “Sean Michael”, let me guess you’re a big WWE fan? Between using the name of a wrestler, barely altered and your constant suggestions that you’ll fight people I’m guessing you’re a fanboy who’s never been in a real fight. Instead of doing anything worthwhile with your life, you’ll waste it. Sad.

  14. #14 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    March 31, 2011

    I HAVE my own wordpress blog dealing with animal activism, and shutting down huntingdon life sciences.

    it’s pushing close to 5,000 views in three months.

    One so irrelevant that “Recent comments on Respectful Insolence include…” results dwarf it, apparently.

  15. #15 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    murderers don’t deserve rights..they deserve to be taken out from 400yrds with a bolt action 30-06. oh, did mention i’m a captain of a military simulation paintball team? I shoot people the legal way, i’m pretty good, i just pretend the other team is a bunch of vivisectors.

    still waiting for somebody to defend that video i posted of baby britches.

  16. #16 Gray Falcon
    March 31, 2011

    Your first attempt to close down Huntington Life Services failed miserably, and you no longer have the public goodwill to try a second time. Several animals were no doubt put down when the labs were closed, but the experiments were likely moved elsewhere. Another great victory like Huntington would be your undoing.

    And five thousand visitors is about how many this site gets in a single day.

  17. #17 themann1086
    March 31, 2011

    What “sean” is actually promoting is Eliminationism. Or as the urban legend says, “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?”

  18. #18 NJ
    March 31, 2011

    sm @ 212:

    i’m a captain of a military simulation paintball team

    Lnyxreign @ 210:

    You’re a pathetic teenager looking to get some fun by pissing people off. Sad, lonely and can’t even keep his story straight.

    Today’s prescient comment winner!

  19. #19 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    March 31, 2011

    See, that’s just disgusting. Even if it were true that doing science through animals were murder, murderers would still deserve rights. They still do, in fact, receive them, although they are accorded too few.

    Just another schmuck with revenge fantasies. Re: Your video, since you’re not posting the study that it corresponds, and you’ve proven that your grasp of facts is… tenuous, it’s.. a lie. I don’t have to defend anything that is such obvious bullshit to begin with.

  20. #20 Lynxreign
    March 31, 2011

    @212 sean michael

    did mention i’m a captain of a military simulation paintball team?

    More evidence that you’re a bored teen wasting his life.

    Also, Bwahahahahahaha! That’s your claim to experience that you’ll be able to shoot someone at 400 yards? Aren’t you just the cutest little thing! I bet you’re really good at video games too.

  21. #21 Leni
    March 31, 2011

    sean michael :

    i don’t need to promote violence when i know vivisectors feel like this..

    You don’t need to promote violence because…you know that it works when other people do it?

    Do you realize that what you said there *is* promoting violence and terrorism?

    As vile a little toad as I think you are, I wouldn’t stoop low enough to be gleeful if you were the target of, say, angry grad student terrorists. I’d be appalled and concerned for your safety, even though I don’t know you and probably wouldn’t like you if I did.

    The fact that your ideology has divorced you from something so basic as empathy should disturb you. Have you ever even stopped to think about what that means? Do you know what happens when large numbers of people become consumed with political or religious ideologies to the point where they start thinking people on the other side deserve to be dead?

    People die, that’s what happens. Sometimes they end up in mass graves under the boots of the group who had more power.

    Who, in this situation has more power? Your side or ours? And what do you think would happen if we resorted to your tactics? You’d lose, that’s what. In reality, you should be thanking us for not being as insane as you are.

  22. #22 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    all I have to say is HLS KICKED OFF LSE AND NYSE! and they’re close to 100 million in debt.

  23. #23 Orac
    March 31, 2011

    that would be amazing. please deny my right to free speech.

    You have no “right” to free speech here, any more than the writer of a letter to the editor has a “right” to have his letter published in a newspaper or magazine. Such publication occurs if the editors decide to publish it; the letter writer can’t compel it.

    You have a right to free speech in general, but you do not have a right to speak on this particular platform unless I grant it to you. Fortunately for you, I am a benevolent dictator and allow damned near anyone to say damned near anything, having only banned two or three commenters in the course of six years. Indeed, my commitment to free speech is such that I’ve tolerated truly obnoxious commenters dropping copious quantities of hateful stupid onto my blog far longer than I should tolerate them.

  24. #24 Orac
    March 31, 2011

    it’s pushing close to 5,000 views in three months.

    Very impressive.

    Scroll all the way down to the bottom of this page. Click on the little square that says “Sitemeter.” That will show you my stats.

    Get the message?

  25. #25 Prometheus
    March 31, 2011

    “sean michael” boasts of his violent action “cred”:

    “murderers don’t deserve rights..they deserve to be taken out from 400yrds with a bolt action 30-06. oh, did mention i’m a captain of a military simulation paintball team?”

    Odd that he doesn’t think that murderers – who are animals, if also human – don’t deserve rights, yet animals – like my serial rodent killer cat – do. He seems conflicted – or maybe he just lacks the insight to realise that he’s talking nonsense.

    It’s people like “sean michael” that give hope and cheer to the pathetic losers who are “targeting the soft underbelly” by harrassing students.

    So far, they’ve been lucky – they haven’t killed anyone (although hundreds of experimental animals they’ve “freed” have died). This is largely due to luck. They also haven’t had the misfortune of running across one of the exceedingly rare armed research professors. I can only wonder what effect having one of their “activists” gut-shot while trying to fire-bomb someone’s house would have on recruitment.

    If this keeps up, it’s only a matter of time before a human dies. “sean michael” may not see that as a significant event (so long as he isn’t the human dying), but it will be.

    Prometheus

  26. #26 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    @Orac

    your groupies are way too easy.

    @Lynxreign

    I have 30-06 along with a springfield .40.

    and i wish i could shoot 400yrds

    teenager? i’m 29.

  27. #27 Kristen
    March 31, 2011

    So, he’s a successful model who posts inflammatory speech condoning violence and he likes to play in the woods with fake guns. Got it.

    My husband went to the Air Force Academy and worked his ass off for four years to get his commission, then worked his ass off, putting his life in danger four more years before he earned the title “Captain”. Don’t fool yourself, just because the other boys in the neighborhood think your soooo cool and made you “captain” doesn’t impress anyone.

    You are a coward and IMO a child. You have no idea how stupid you have made yourself look on this blog. If I were part of the Animal Rights movement I would be ashamed of you (I doubt they are, though. I imagine they can’t be too picky).

  28. #28 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    I’m just having fun now, just for the lulz. i like watching all of you cry.

  29. #29 Josh A
    March 31, 2011

    “and i have thrown punches for talking shit on a dudes leather jacket. ”

    A Leather Jacket? Do you know where leather comes from?

  30. #30 Michael Crichton
    March 31, 2011

    Troll: “Laughing so hard tears roll down our faces” =/= “crying”.

  31. #31 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    The funny thing about paintball is we play along side of ex seals, active military, police officers, and they have no idea why our team is called Direct Action Milita.

    D.A.M.

  32. #32 Narad
    March 31, 2011

    Aren’t paintballs made of gelatin?

  33. #33 Peapoh
    March 31, 2011

    All you know how to do is “have fun” with people, Sean. In these 227 comments you have shamelessly posted nothing but basesless and unsubstantial “facts” and propaganda. And when pressed for intellectual honesty you respond with MORE half assed “truths”.

    Don’t fool yourself.

  34. #34 NJ
    March 31, 2011

    sm @ 224:

    teenager? i’m 29.

    The question has been about your chronological age, not your IQ.

  35. #35 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    March 31, 2011

    Is that before or after shoots? Do you blog about it?

    Christ almighty what a maroon.

  36. #36 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    @ Michael

    doesn’t sound like kristen is laughing, actually..it doesn’t sound like 95% of the people on here are laughing.

    just saying.

  37. #37 Gray Falcon
    March 31, 2011

    @sean
    I’m not upset at all. I’m actually quite satisfied that I could put cracks in your worldview with just two words: citation needed.

  38. #38 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    *yawn*

  39. #39 Lawrence
    March 31, 2011

    Wow – a milsim paintballer who likes to think he’s actually “killing” people when he shoots them. As an avid paintballer myself, our sport doesn’t need people like you – you & your lot give us all a bad name.

  40. #40 Chris
    March 31, 2011

    sean michael, just because your fake ID says 29, it does not mean you are anything by a teenager. At least mentally and emotionally.

    Folks, while Lisa Grossman and Janis have both run away just like Brave Sir Robin, we are left with this pointless clown. Who for some strange reason is hearing things in his head, the only explanation for claiming “it doesn’t sound like 95% of the people on here are laughing.”

    He is now just trolling, it is time to ignore him. Though if it amuses you to bat around the new play toy, go ahead.

  41. #41 Lynxreign
    March 31, 2011

    @224 sean michael

    I have 30-06 along with a springfield .40.

    and i wish i could shoot 400yrds

    Pathetic

    teenager? i’m 29.

    If true, even more pathetic. Already a decade gone by with nothing to show for your life. Wanting to be a model is apparently the best dream you can come up with.

    i like watching all of you cry.

    I haven’t seen anyone here cry. I’ve seen you whine quite a bit. I like that you’re consistant in just making crap up though.

  42. #42 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    there’s bad boys in every sport.

    we don’t mind the title.

    bwhahahahha!!!

    *rubs hands together*

  43. #43 Todd W.
    March 31, 2011

    murderers don’t deserve rights..they deserve to be taken out from 400yrds with a bolt action 30-06

    So, according to sean’s own logic, people on his own side who might resort to killing a “vivisectionist” do not deserve rights and should be taken out from 400 yards with a bolt action 30-06. Says something about his mental health, no?

  44. #44 Lawrence
    March 31, 2011

    Paintballs are in fact made of gelatin & not “vegetarian.”

    Knowing who I know in the paintball community, I’d be more than happy to spread the word – I’m sure all of those military & police-types you “play” with would be more than happy to find out your views on criminal activites.

    Moron.

  45. #45 Todd W.
    March 31, 2011

    @sean

    I feel ALL species have a right to live without torture and suffering.

    So why are you violating our right to live without torture and suffering by continuing to post your inane drivel? I mean, seriously, dude, some consistency wouldn’t hurt.

  46. #46 JayK
    March 31, 2011

    I’m about 90% certain that the FBI is involved in the domestic terrorism charges against NIU, what they have done fits the definition well and in a Democratic led Justice Department, those that are connected will be feeling a sting as well. The threats that they have placed could easily cause issues in pharmaceutical supplies and government sponsored research.

    As for the troll, sean michaels, he shows many of the likely traits of an attention starved child or adult-child that was most likely raised in a single parent (mother) household where the lack of a father figure created a lack of awareness of cultural boundaries, or even awareness of others’ awareness. sean michaels will most likely continue to live with his mother well into his 20’s and possibly early thirties and will blame his lack of close relationships on others. This attack on “vivisectionists” is nothing more than his current target and will probably only last for a few years when it will taper off in favor of a more distant target where he can maintain an even greater sense of anonymity while imagining that he is affecting change. It is highly likely that he will shift his negative attention towards children sometime in his future.

  47. #47 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    Force must be used when the innocent are killed and tortured.

    just a taste of your own medicine.

  48. #48 Poodle Stomper
    March 31, 2011

    I have 30-06 along with a springfield .40. and i wish i could shoot 400yrds

    I can beat that easily. I have more that 2 rifles, am prior military and I CAN shoot at 400 yards and beyond. Get out of momma’s basement, get a real job, learn some real science and join the real world.

    I’ve gotta go stomp on some poodles now.

  49. #49 Andy
    March 31, 2011

    what the hell is /b/?

    I’m just having fun now, just for the lulz. i like watching all of you cry.

    You know how I know you already know the answer to your question?

    Really, sean. I’ll say it again. /b/tards are usually much better at trolling than this. I mean, make it a little less obvious next time., mr. model who is also an expert paintball sharpshooter and will next tell us of his advanced martial arts blackbelts and/or MMA expertise.

  50. #50 Todd W.
    March 31, 2011

    So, to recap:

    sean, the trolling ARA, plays paintball, which uses gelatin (derived from animals). He is in favor of the vigilante killing of murdering ARAs and despite feeling that “ALL” species have a right to live without being tortured insists on torturing everyone here with his quaint, twisted illogic.

    About sums up the cute li’l tyke we’re dealin’ with. Amusing, but @BronxZoosCobra is much more entertaining.

  51. #51 wintermute
    March 31, 2011

    Force must be used when the innocent are killed and tortured.

    So, when NIO follow through on their threats to kill the children of animal researchers, you’ll demand that they be hunted down and murdered?

  52. #52 triskelethecat
    March 31, 2011

    Am I a bad person because I think sean is really, really funny? It’s like watching a 3 year old stomp around in a temper, while the adults sit and watch, and the kid keeps saying, “bang, you’re dead” while shooting with his finger.

    Don’t worry sean. No one here will hurt you, we just point and laugh.

    You know, trolls like sean are really good to make fangs sharp and fur all nice and sniny. I’m sure that’s why he’s here – as a very concerned animal rights activist he wanted to make sure we were all in the best of sniny health.

  53. #53 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    nope, but i’ve been a dj for 12 years, i produce music, I have a 62 bel air, i throw a club in hollywood every tuesday, I shoot guns, but no MMA. sorry.

  54. #54 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    tiberius first strike rounds aren’t gelatin.

  55. #55 Yojimbo
    March 31, 2011

    Oh well – fun’s over. This is just getting sad.

  56. #56 Narad
    March 31, 2011

    tiberius first strike rounds aren’t gelatin.

    Oh, wow, so even your tough-guy paintball persona prefers to hide at a safe distance and snipe away? That’s rich.

  57. #57 JohnV
    March 31, 2011

    5000 page views in 3 months? Nice work. At that rate in 7 months or so you’ll have as many page views as this blog had yesterday.

    🙂

  58. #58 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    i play mid with first strike rounds, but yes i also snipe.

  59. #59 Lawrence
    March 31, 2011

    Oh, he’s a paintball “sniper” even…this is rich & hilarious. It’ll be fun to out this guy (already in progress).

  60. #60 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    *yawn*

  61. #61 Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom
    March 31, 2011

    Lulz is a widespread internet meme, not merely confined to 4chan.

    4chan memes do go places. Remember when Rick Astley sang “Never Gonna Give You Up” during the Macy’s Day Parade?

    How sad is it for ARAs that I consider /b/ better than them?

  62. #62 Composer99
    March 31, 2011

    What is it with trolls and their stunning inability to realize they are out of their league?

    In the last few weeks we’ve had Sid Offit, augustine, Th1Th2, The Crack Emcee, and now sean michael.

    (To be fair, Sid does not usually boast of his conquest of the thread, at least not on Respectul Insolence, and at least not that I’ve noticed.)

    On the plus side, we’ve finally received the long-awaited evil laugh.

    With sean michael’s ineffably superior intellect, incredible physical fitness, and now his evil laugh, surely the sunlit uplands of supervillainy await him.

  63. #63 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    that was just for you composer.

  64. #64 Pieter B
    March 31, 2011

    Free the minks! [from 1998]

    In what must have seemed like a brilliant idea at the time, British animal-rights activists sneaked onto the grounds of a mink farm here during the weekend, cut through wire fences and gave 6,500 minks their freedom instead of a future as fur coats. … Domestic pets and farm animals — including cats, hamsters, chickens, guinea pigs and hens — have been pursued and killed. Wild animals — including the endangered water vole, a type of water rat — are under attack. Local fisheries are threatened. And local residents, including the owners of a wild bird sanctuary where three birds were killed in mink attacks Sunday and Monday, have taken up arms. One of the dead birds was a beloved, 14-year-old kestrel named Spitfire who made countless educational trips to local schools.

    The ecological ignorance of such “activists” can hardly be overstated. In this and similar incidents, large percentages of the released animals get run over on the roads and highways within 48 hours of their “liberation”. I’ve heard animal-rights people justify this sort of thing by saying that the animals should be “out in nature having fun.” They forget that “nature is red in tooth and claw” is a very accurate description of the real world. Other releases have resulted in minks killing and eating each other, as well as upsetting the ecological balance in the area.

    sean:

    I HAVE my own wordpress blog dealing with animal activism, and shutting down huntingdon life sciences.

    it’s pushing close to 5,000 views in three months.

    500 clicks a day? Color me underwhelmed..

    i’ve been a dj for 12 years, i produce music, I have a 62 bel air, i throw a club in hollywood every tuesday

    . . . And such a hipster that you have the internet on vinyl. Wow. A Tuesday night club is nothing to brag about, laddie. Slowest, lamest night of the week.

  65. #65 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    my day at the DMV is done. I’ll check in later.

    love you.

    sean

  66. #66 Todd W.
    March 31, 2011

    tiberius first strike rounds aren’t gelatin

    Ah, so you prefer to play with rounds made of non-biodegradable plastic (polystyrene) that can have detrimental effects on wildlife, both directly and through its manufacture. Why do you hate animals so much?

  67. #67 Lawrence
    March 31, 2011

    LOL Todd, you beat me to it. I was off spreading the word to a variety of associates. You’d be amazed at how small a sport paintball actually is – and how intolerant of idiots.

  68. #68 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    you can make any night at a club amazing..as long as you have the right crowd.

    I don’t want to throw a party on the weekend, that’s when all the people from the valley want to come party. I don’t go out on the weekends unless i have to dj.

  69. #69 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    hey lawrence, fuck your associates.

  70. #70 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    fuck you, and your associates. tell them ALL!

  71. #71 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    im a doo doo head and i like sniffing my butt. i am also a commie. I enjoy long walks on the beach and i can be a paintwarz sniper. i like call of doody. and i can be a profeshunal paintball warz captain.

  72. #72 Narad
    March 31, 2011

    You should get “One Tin Soldier” into the party mix.

  73. #73 Kristen
    March 31, 2011

    Dawn,

    Am I a bad person because I think sean is really, really funny? It’s like watching a 3 year old stomp around in a temper, while the adults sit and watch, and the kid keeps saying, “bang, you’re dead” while shooting with his finger.

    I am a bad person too then.

    It is hilarious how he thinks he can rile me. I have a 14-year-old who acts more mature. I wanted to call out his ‘captain’ brag, pathetic poser that he is.

    Lawrence,

    It’ll be fun to out this guy (already in progress).

    Cool, please do let us know. Normally I wouldn’t want somebody “outed” but he was warned.

  74. #74 Beamup
    March 31, 2011

    Outed to the police so he can be charged with inciting violence I’d go with. But I don’t see how a public outing serves any purpose. Really, who cares? I doubt it’s like his friends are unlikely to be aware he’s a lunatic.

  75. #75 David Marjanović
    March 31, 2011

    😀 😀 😀

    In about 15 years on the Internet, I don’t think I’ve ever seen such an amusing troll.

    Internet Tough Guy photos: 1, 2, 3.

    Sean, what you are is fucking stupid. You don’t know what science is, you don’t know what vivisection is, you don’t know what morals are, and you don’t know what terrorism is.

    He doesn’t even know what a troll is. And he obeys Shaker’s Law.

    Out of pity, sean:

    A troll is somebody who says something — anything — in order to make everyone upset, and then laughs at the upset reactions. Most trolls freely admit that’s what they’re doing; you’ve admitted it several times already, as if in a desperate plea urging us to be upset already. 😀

    Shaker’s Law states that the more loudly and the more often somebody claims to be leaving an Internet discussion, the more quickly they’ll come back. You flounced in comment 263, and 3 comments and 10 minutes later you were back. Makes you look silly, in case you didn’t notice.

    Vivisection means dissection of a living animal. I don’t think anybody does that anymore; what for? I don’t know if it’s even legal anywhere in the Western world, but if it is, getting a permit certainly takes forever. Even getting a permit for an ordinary medical test on lab mice is a major expense of time and money.

    You’d be amazed at how small a sport paintball actually is – and how intolerant of idiots.

    Intolerant of idiots? The leader of Austria’s xenophobe party used to play paintball (with guess what overtones).

  76. #76 Lynxreign
    March 31, 2011

    I can see it now.

    “Fine, ‘Sean’, fine. You can be ‘captain’. Now go hide behind that tree and don’t come out until I say. You can ‘lead’ us better from there and you’re too valuable as ‘captain’ to get in the wa… to get shot early.”

    What a joke. I bet when no-one shows to the Tuesday night parties in his basement he just tells himself that no-one is cool enough to show up. You know, all those people with jobs…

  77. #77 Lawrence
    March 31, 2011

    Actually has nothing to do with his friends – quite a number of us are either current/former law enforcement or military (though much more laid back than you would probably imagine).

    This guy won’t be looked upon very kindly by the community as a whole.

  78. #78 Raging Bee
    March 31, 2011

    Beamup: what makes you think he HAS any friends? His relentless infantile presence here suggests he has no social life, no hobbies, nothing relevant to do in the real world, and no other source of pleasure or filfillment of any kind. I suspect his presence on the Web is inversely proportional to his relevance in the real world.

    Even his mentors in NIO have buggered off long ago, and it’s probably because even those sick shitheads had more important things to do than sean will ever have (like maybe trying to act a little more mature so their bullying and threats sound more credible).

    One thing we know for sure: he’s certainly not actively working to protect animals in the real world.

  79. #79 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    i’ll be here tomorrow..let’s see how many of you show up.

    come out from behind your computers.

    Friday, April 1: Meet at Westfield Century City Shopping Mall (in front of Gelson’s Grocery) at 12:30PM SHARP. The parking garage is located off of Century Park Wy and Constellation Blvd, across from the MGM building.

  80. #80 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    tomorrow.

    let’s see how many of you show up.

    Friday, April 1: Meet at Westfield Century City Shopping Mall (in front of Gelson’s Grocery) at 12:30PM SHARP. The parking garage is located off of Century Park Wy and Constellation Blvd, across from the MGM building.

  81. #81 Lynxreign
    March 31, 2011

    @280 sean michael

    12:30PM SHARP

    Is that when you get your lunchbreak from WeenieWorld?

  82. #82 David Marjanović
    March 31, 2011

    let’s see how many of you show up.

    Wrong continent for me. Alas…

    April 1

    Eh… you know…

    😀

  83. #83 blasphemous_kansan
    March 31, 2011

    I wonder which posse sean will bring to the Westfield Century City Shopping Mall (in front of Gelson’s Grocery). So many choices!
    -The modeling crew
    -The paintball team
    -The LA Tuesday night club scene.
    -Some local DJ’s
    -An animal rights anti-vivisector posse?

    With so many friends and vibrant social circles, it will be hard to choose, I’m sure.

  84. #84 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    -An animal rights anti-vivisector posse.

    there’s a HLS demo across the street.

  85. #85 Poodle Stomper
    March 31, 2011

    let’s see how many of you show up

    Wrong part of the country altogether for me and I have a real job to do. Animal research related of course.

  86. #86 Lawrence
    March 31, 2011

    Wow, guess I hit a sore spot. LOL

  87. #87 VikingMoose
    March 31, 2011

    “hahaha..citation for what?

    Posted by: sean micheal | March 30, 2011 3:40 PM”

    see, guys, his posts are 100% animal free. and 100% citation free! He’s practicing what he preaches!

    *takes big bite of milk fed veal sammich*

  88. #88 Leni
    March 31, 2011

    I won’t be able to make it to LA tomorrow, but please give yourself the finger for me! Tell you what, I’ll google-earth your location at 12:30 Pacific SHARP and give the monitor the finger, you just look up at the sky and remember that somewhere, someone in the world is thinking that you are possibly the biggest dumbass ever. And flipping you off.

    I am secretly hoping someone paintball snipes you in the back of a head, though. Could you wear some identifying article of clothing so we know who to laugh at? An armband with two stylized S’s on it perhaps? A nice brown button-up?

  89. #89 Chris
    March 31, 2011

    silly sean:

    Friday, April 1: Meet at Westfield Century City Shopping Mall (in front of Gelson’s Grocery) at 12:30PM SHARP. The parking garage is located off of Century Park Wy and Constellation Blvd, across from the MGM building.

    Aren’t you a bit late:

    Friday, March 25: Meet at Westfield Century City Shopping Mall (in front of
    Gelson’s Grocery) at 12:00PM SHARP. The parking garage is located off of Century Park Wy and Constellation Blvd, across from the MGM building.

  90. #90 sean michael
    March 31, 2011

    he’s teaching your kids.

    LOVE AND RESPECT FOR STEVEN BEST!

  91. #91 Narad
    March 31, 2011

    LOVE AND RESPECT FOR STEVEN BEST!

    Heh. I can’t wait to hear your postmodern analysis of paintball, Cap’n.

  92. #92 ktesibios
    March 31, 2011

    Softie, one of the kittehs who own me, is alive and able to demand that I hurry it up with her noms because of medications (prednisone and antibiotics) that were tested with animals. Indeed, veterinarians, whose professional lives are devoted to preventing and alleviating animal suffering, could not know how to use medications eeffectively to treat illness in different species were it not for animal research.

    I am able to get up and get her her noms after having had an ischemic stroke largely because of a drug- heparin- which was not only tested on animals but is derived from animals.

    So, sean- if you ever experience having a companion animal whom you love suddenly taken seriously ill and hear her giving the ‘Daddy help me!” cry, will you just let her die in pain and fear rather than make use of knowledge derived from animal research to save her? And if you also have my experience of losing control of an entire side of your body and falling to the ground and injuring yourself, shall we just leave you on the sidewalk, bleeding and paralyzed?

    Or will you learn how to balance cost and benefit in place of a rigid, fundamentalist-absolutist conception of morality/

  93. #93 ithinktoomuch
    March 31, 2011

    “and sorry if i’m not up to date on my online lingo, i thought a troll was somebody everybody picked on” -Sean Michael

    Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. ‘you’re nothing but a fanboy’ is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevance to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue. – Urban Dictionary

    Also, Sean is evil for wanting to forcibly test drugs on murderers and rapists for many reasons. But I would like to point out that not all people convicted of rape or murder are guilty of that. In fact, the state of Illinois put a moratorium on their death penalty executions for a few years after they did DNA tests on all relevant evidence and found out that it cleared 10% of their death row inmates. Death is irreversible, and certainty is hard. Sean should be working to abolish the death penalty around the world, not screwing around with scientists over animals. Or at least he should devote his time to the REAL problems facing animals in the world today, such as poaching and illegal pets.

  94. #94 Rogue Epidemiologist
    March 31, 2011

    I’m going to ask this unironically because it came to mind after following the same covered-in-animal-rights-slogans van twice to work this week:

    How far down the cladogram will animal rights zealots defend? They acted swiftly and harshly against a girl who works in a Drosophila lab. One girl I know who works for THE big animal rights org got bent out of shape when I described some reserach I did in college in a C. elegans lab.

    But would the AR folks kill mosquitoes (I’m covered in mosquito bites at the moment, had to kill several that were trying to feed off my leg)? How about killing roaches and vermin in their vegan restaurants? What about taking anti-helminthic medications in case of parasite infestations? Or killing scabies and lice (head, pubes, whatever)?

    Where is the line drawn? Do they only care about mammals? Charismatic species? Or will they defend all members of Kindom Animalia?

  95. #95 Leni
    March 31, 2011

    he’s teaching your kids.

    So? Is that supposed to be frightening or something?

    I don’t have kids but if I did, I wouldn’t care. He wouldn’t be the first academic that had, shall we say, nonconformist opinions. And, so long as people like you don’t get their way, he won’t be the last.

  96. #96 LW
    March 31, 2011

    “Or will they defend all members of Kindom Animalia?”

    They certainly won’t defend any members of Homo sapiens other than themselves.

  97. #97 DuWayne
    March 31, 2011

    sean michaels –

    he’s teaching your kids.

    You’re correct actually, he is. My eldest (nine) and I spent a couple hours watching a couple of Best’s performances and breaking it down. We explored his rhetorical devices, logical fallacies and how he carefully avoids explicit statements. Best is dangerous and obsessed with a cause that affords him power. That is not to say that he isn’t a True Believer – he most certainly is. But he became a True Believer, only after he had moved through several other radical postmodernist movements – movements he subsequently threw under a bus.

    Best is a vile excuse for a human being, but he is also a master of rhetoric. He is every bit the equal of the greatest of tent revivalists and televangelists. He was a very useful tool for helping me teach my eldest about the dangers of listening to people who make powerful appeals to emotion – to help him understand that simply because someone has the ability to evoke an emotional response, doesn’t make them right.

    At the same time, we also talked about the animal rights movement, versus animal welfare. And because we were discussing appeals to emotion, we also watched and discussed some video of Billy Graham – discussing the similarities between Graham and Best’s rhetorical styles. We then discussed the actual content of their respective messages and what those messages imply.

    So yes, Best was a very useful teacher for my oldest. He will probably still make a useful teacher for my three year old, when he gets a little older and can parse nuance better.

  98. #98 Markita Lynda: Anti-Abortion = Pro-Death
    March 31, 2011

    Sean reminds me that 73.6% of statistics are made up.

  99. #99 Militant Agnostic
    March 31, 2011

    novalox

    Whoops, sorry about that. Hopefully, Militant Agnostic doesn’t take too much offense at that.

    I do take offense. Honour must be satisfied. Pistols Flaming strawmen at dawn.

  100. #100 Poodle Stomper
    March 31, 2011

    Rogue Epidemiologist,

    But would the AR folks kill mosquitoes (I’m covered in mosquito bites at the moment, had to kill several that were trying to feed off my leg)? How about killing roaches and vermin in their vegan restaurants? What about taking anti-helminthic medications in case of parasite infestations? Or killing scabies and lice (head, pubes, whatever)?

    You know I wondered the same thing. If the use of fruit flies is against their beliefs, should the use of cotton likewise be murder? How many innocent insects get CRUSHED ALIVE (VIVISECTION!!!!! ZOMG) inside the machines used to harvest cotton? At least the drosophila get a bit of FlyNap(tm) to put them into a blissful sleep.

    How about it Sean? Do you murder mosquitoes by crushing them alive? Do you encourage the murder of insects through the use of crop-harvesting machines? Do you drive a car at high speeds down highways (how many innocent insects have you slowly murdered using your windshield)? The law may say all those things are OK but by NIO standards you are a vile murderer and vivisectionist. I hope you will do the right thing and turn yourself in to them for punishment.

  101. #101 lilady
    March 31, 2011

    Or, hookworms and tapeworms in people and animals…or do the wackos consider them to be symbiotic?

    Hi to ktsebios and best wishes to you and Kitty…for a steady recovery.

  102. #102 JohnV
    April 1, 2011

    @lilady

    Dr. Gordon would probably tell us they were symbiotic :p

  103. #103 lilady
    April 1, 2011

    You guys are having all the fun on Orac’s Dr. Jay blog…which I cannot get on…for some reason…possibly because I am laptop skills deficient.

    I assume I won’t have to wait too long for a Dr. Jay comment…like a moth to the flame…I want a piece of that action.

  104. #104 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    April 1, 2011

    I find I was not entirely accurate. There is 200 proof food grade ethanol. That is what I get when I try to work from memory of my undergraduate days. My apologies to all.

  105. #105 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    April 1, 2011

    Sean Michael,

    In all seriousness, do you feel you have accomplished something substantive here?
    You posted a list of items that has been dismissed as inaccurate, irrelevant, and unsupported by fact. You expressed the opinion that “torturing and killing” animals was bad regardless of the purpose, but haven’t defended that view with either fact or cogent argument. You’ve used the stirring rhetoric of the violent revolutionary, but when pressed have avoided the actions those words imply. You even, apparently, use the word “vivisection” improperly. As best as I can tell, you have not converted anyone to your cause, inspired anyone to renounce animal research, or caused someone who uses animals in research to quake in terror. Indeed, it doesn’t even appear you’ve helped your modelling career either – if given a chance, I for one will recommend against hiring you (don’t laugh).
    Besides stirring the pot and getting some attention, did you accomplish anything? Really – I’d like to understand.
    Thanks in advance.

  106. #106 lilady
    April 1, 2011

    You bet there is 200 proof alcohol. I had it in Puerto Rico and in Maryland with my cousin years ago; the guys there would mix it with pineapple juice.

    I myself prefer Smirnoff 100 proof vodka when I brew up my cranberry-orange booze in large vats. I get many invitations to holiday parties when I share the brew with my friends.

  107. #107 TylerD
    April 1, 2011

    Hey sean I wanna know if you’ve got any more cool videos like the one upthread where the baboon gets it’s head knocked around. That was some pretty funny shit.

  108. #108 sean michael
    April 1, 2011

    they’re watching, and with axe, drill or crow bar…they’re coming through your door.

    HEROES!

  109. #109 Narad
    April 1, 2011

    they’re watching, and with axe, drill or crow bar…they’re coming through your door.

    I was just thinking to myself that what this thread has been lacking is a proper projective rape fantasy.

  110. #110 Chris
    April 1, 2011

    So, Sean, are you going to that protest tomorrow… the one that happened on March 25th?

  111. #111 sean michael
    April 1, 2011

    it’s been every friday and saturday for the last 5 weeks. check the blog again.

    you guys are reaching pretty hard now.

    yes you fucking idiot, tomorrow i’m showing up to a protest that happened on the 25th. wow.

  112. #112 Poodle Stomper
    April 1, 2011

    Sean, you never answered whether you murder mosquitoes that land on you. Do you? How is that better or more acceptable than fruit flies?

  113. #113 triskelethecat
    April 1, 2011

    @sean: sorry, I can’t come to your party. I’m on the opposite side of the United States and I have one of those things known as a real job.

    @lilady: OOOOHHHH! I wanna be your new bestest friend forever. That sounds like a REALLY awesome drink and I can kill all the bacteria in my system with it and REALLY upset poor little sean. Murder of living creatures! Oh the horrors! (Seriously, next time I’m on Island, we should try to meet. It would be fun). Don’t know why you can’t access the Dr Jay post.

  114. #114 herr doktor bimler
    April 1, 2011

    all members of Kindom Animalia?

    Most appropriate typo evah.

  115. #115 triskelethecat
    April 1, 2011

    @lilady: don’t worry about the Dr Jay thread. Just looked at it and it’s simply people playing with the Thing troll. Nothing exciting, trust me. Dr Jay has run away, Augie is silent and Chris, Gray Falcon, and others are simply batting the troll around the floor.

  116. #116 Amenhotepstein
    April 1, 2011

    Awright, Orac, you can come clean now. PZ is out as being Cuttlefish, so you can admit that you’re “sean michael” now. It was fun while it lasted, creating a troll of such breathtaking insipidity and brainlessness, but the party’s over! Many of us weren’t buying it from the start; no human being could exhibit such callousness regarding the lives of their fellows, no one but a sociopath would advocate medical experiments on prisoners (see Mengene, Josef).

    So c’mon now, admit it, “sean michael” isn’t real… right???

  117. #117 Andreas Johansson
    April 1, 2011

    Rogue Epidemiologist wrote:

    Or will they defend all members of Kindom Animalia?

    FWIW, IME they tend to be vaguely aware at best of invertebrates. If pressed, they’re likely to insist that fruit flies have a right to life too, flatly refuse to answer about intestinal worms, and believe corals to be plants.

    Tangentially, I’ve asked a few why the cut-off for rights should be animals particularly – why not restrict it to bilaterians, say, or extend it to all eukaryotes? – but never gotten an answer.

  118. #118 Chris
    April 1, 2011

    silly sean:

    it’s been every friday and saturday for the last 5 weeks. check the blog again.

    I did, idiot. The new page was posted after I posted, and the previous ones were posted a day or so earlier… so you are just working with your other idiots. I also looked for news coverage, and found exactly nothing.

    You are not making much of a splash.

  119. #119 Anglachel the Common Sense Pagan
    April 1, 2011

    Wow Sean, just wow! Your comments are so full of illogic and burning stupid that my poor Aspie mind just can’t handle it! You see here Orac likes to deal in two things, facts, and logic!

    Fact: something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence

    Logic: Valid reasoning

    I can see how these two concepts are so hard for you to understand, being a model, which requires no real intelligence. But some words of advice. Don’t try to debate or argue with those who are clearly better educated and of higher intelligence than you are. We can and will kick your sorry a$$ all over this blog.

    And those here can do that using those two concepts you have so much difficulty in understanding, facts, and logic.

    That is all, for now.

  120. #120 Prometheus
    April 1, 2011

    I’ll have to admit that it’s been fun watching “sean michael” tie himself into knots trying to be self-consistent in his “animal rights” nonsense. Unfortunately, he’s now descended into middle-school insults and faint attempts at taunting. Not so much fun – I can get those from my kids without turning on the computer.

    While I am all for animal welfare (I support a cat) and would vigorously oppose animal cruelty (i.e. cruelty to animals), the idea of animal rights strikes me as ludicrous.

    If animals are to have rights, then they need to also have responsibilities. And I’m not talking about fetching the paper or cleaning their own litter-box. If animals have rights, then they also need to be held accountable for their actions.

    If animals have rights, then when my cat kills a mouse, he has violated that mouse’s right to live (surely the most fundamental of rights) and deserves to be punished. Assuming that the facts of the rodenticide are not in question, my cat should be incarcerated. As a repeat offender (my cat has killed over a dozen mice in his lifetime), my cat would be a candidate for life-imprisonment or even execution (perhaps by a 30-’06 at 400 yeards).

    If, on the other hand, we are to grant animals rights without responsibilities, what then are we to do about animals that become dangerous? What about the rogue dog (or wild wolf or coyote) who is killing sheep or even deer and antelope? Since rabies is a disease, not a moral failing, do we not “put down” rabid foxes and skunks?

    These are the issues that the “animal rights activists” don’t want to address, most probably because their agenda really has nothing to do with “animal rights” and has everything to do with venting their anger at society over things unrelated to animals. For some, the “animal rights” movement has merely given them an opportunity to satisfy their deep-seated need to do violence.

    Getting back to “sean michael”. His violent rhetoric and imagery coupled with his interest in fantasy violence marks him as one of the latter group – those who have a need to do violence. In earlier times, he might have sublimated that by hunting or joining the armed forces, but those are two activities that are out of vogue in his social circles, so he pretends to shoot other people and vicariously enjoys the violence perpetrated by his “heroes” in the “animal rights” movement.

    That the people in the “animal rights” movement are cowards is not in question. If they really wanted to have an impact on the “exploitation” of animals, they’d be doing their “direct action” on ranches and slaughterhouses. However, people on ranches have guns and are likely to use them and the folks who work at slaughterhouses aren’t likely to be intimidated by a bunch of Birkenstock-wearing “radicals”. So, they go after the “soft underbelly” where they are less likely to be killed or severely beaten but also have a negligible effect on the number of animals killed by humans.

    I work in a university where animal research is done. All of the animals killed in a year by all of the animal researchers on campus don’t amount to the number of animals killed in a single day by a single Iowa slaughterhouse. Yet, the universities are where the “animal rights” cowards focus their attention.

    So, “sean michael”, when they’ve shut down animal research and all of the benefits that derive from it, will your “animal rights” heroes take on the rancher, hunters and slaughterhouses? Of will they (as I suspect) merely shift to harassing people doing plant research (the dreaded GMO’s!) or microbiology? Will we next be hearing about how “cruel” it is to the bacteria?

    I suspect – as I’ve outlined above – that this isn’t about the poor animals but about people feeling disconnected from society (a common malady among teens and twenty-somethings) and people looking for a somewhat socially-acceptable outlet for their violent impulses. Even if the world was 100% vegan and “exploitation-free”, they’d have to find something that warranted fire-bombing, death threats and vandalism.

    Prometheus

  121. #121 Composer99
    April 1, 2011

    Prometheus:

    As a past cat-owner, allow me:

    I support am an indentured servant to a cat

  122. #122 Poodle Stomper
    April 1, 2011

    If animals are to have rights, then they need to also have responsibilities. And I’m not talking about fetching the paper or cleaning their own litter-box. If animals have rights, then they also need to be held accountable for their actions.

    If what I’ve seen with cats and rodents is any indication, cats should most definitely be considered for punishment for vivisection as I’ve seen many use their claws and teeth to rip apart a conscious mouse. I hope Sean gets to work on those vile cats ASAP!

  123. #123 Kristen
    April 1, 2011

    Best is a vile excuse for a human being, but he is also a master of rhetoric. He is every bit the equal of the greatest of tent revivalists and televangelists. He was a very useful tool for helping me teach my eldest about the dangers of listening to people who make powerful appeals to emotion – to help him understand that simply because someone has the ability to evoke an emotional response, doesn’t make them right.

    DuWayne, I shall be using this strategy with my children as they get older. I don’t think there is anything more important we can teach our children than critical thinking (although the “appeal to emotion” fallacy shouldn’t be very effective on the two with autism). Thank you for the idea.

    Prometheus,
    I grew up on a small ranch (just our family, not industrial) in Colorado and I don’t recall any AR idiots bothering us, or any other ranchers I knew. And you are right, my father taught me how to use a firearm when I was twelve (when dad was away shoot in the air in case of emergency). There would be no “liberating” of our animals, and I can’t really picture a rancher being easily intimidated.

    We cared for our animals, spent every minute of every day working to care for them. When AR people “liberate” animals they let them fend for themselves. This is cruelty because captive bred and domesticated animals need humans to care for them.

    Although I am curious how Sean would have felt checking on the horses and finding one torn to pieces by a bear. Is that murder, or okay? And had we been there to protect our horse by shooting the bear, is that murder? Why?

    I know he won’t answer these or any other questions. They challenge his nirvana-like perfect animal behavior ideals.

  124. #124 Beamup
    April 1, 2011

    I’ve occasionally wondered whether AR extremists are similar to Marxists. In particular, Marx basically argued that as soon as the proper governmental system was in place, human behavior would change drastically and motivations would be entirely different. Do AR extremists think that, once humans stop doing such nasty evil things, animals will all suddenly start getting along in perfect harmony instead of killing each other off left and right?

  125. #125 DuWayne
    April 1, 2011

    Kristen –

    I think it is critically important – especially as an atheist raising two boys, by himself in the midwest. I would note that my boys have a fundamentalist, borderline cultist for a grandmother – whom they spend a lot of time with. It also comes hand in hand with admitting that I was wrong, every time I am made aware that I said something that was inaccurate to my children.

    I have to admit though, that that particular discussion was most exciting because he really got it. He was all about asking great questions and even questioning my responses to those questions. Most importantly, he was aware that he got it. Due to some incomprehensibly horrifying crap he has had to deal with over the last two years, his self esteem has been beaten to shit – especially in terms of his intellect. So managing a major intellectual coup like that was huge for him.

    I also throw logical fallacies at him a few times a week as well, something he loves, because he has gotten to where he catches better than two thirds fo them.

    I would suggest though, that there is a lot of fun stuff you can do even when they are quite young. After it happened on accident, I found science picture books that contained outdated, or otherwise inaccurate information. We generally like to look up more information about a lot of the things we read about and it is really great when you end up with a four year old who understands that science is self-correcting.

  126. #126 sean michael
    April 1, 2011

    Walter’s Final Statement to the Court at his Sentencing:

    I’m here today because I burnt down the Sheepskin Factory in Glendale, CO, a business that sells pelts, furs and other dead animal skins. I know many people think I should feel remorse for what I’ve done. I guess this is the customary time where I’m suppose to grovel and beg for mercy. I assure you, if that’s how I felt, I would. But I am not sorry for anything I have done. Nor am I frightened by this court’s authority because any system of law that values the rights of the oppressor over the down trodden is an unjust system. And though this court has real and actual power, I question its morality. I doubt the court is interested in the precautions that I took to not harm any person or by-stander and even less concerned with the miserable lives that sheep, cows and mink had to endure, unto death, so that a Colorado business could profit from their confinement, enslavement, and murder.

    Obviously, the owners and employees of the sheepskin factory do not care either or they would not be involved in such a sinister and macabre blood trade. So I will not waste my breath where it will only fall on deaf ears. That’s why I turned to illegal direct action to begin with, because you do not care. No matter how much we animal rights activists talk or reason with you, you do not care. Well, Mr. Livaditis (owner of the Sheepskin Factory), I don’t care about you. There is no common ground between people like you and me. I want you to know that no matter what this court sentences me to today, you have won nothing! Prison is no great hardship to me. In a society that values money over life, I consider it an honor to be a prisoner of war, the war against inter-species slavery and objectification! I also want you to know that I will never willingly pay you one dollar, not one! I hope your business fails and you choke to death on every penny you profit from animal murder! I hope you choke on it and burn in hell!

    To my supporters, I wish to say thank you for standing behind me and showing this court and these animal exploiters that we support our own and that we as a movement are not going to apologize for having a sense of urgency. We are not going to put the interests of commerce over sentience! And we will never stop educating, agitating and confronting those responsible for the death of our Mother Earth and her Animal Nations. My vegan sisters and brothers, our lives are not our own. Selfishness is the way of gluttons, perverts and purveyors of injustice. It has been said all it takes for evil to conquer is for good people to do nothing. Conversely, all it takes to stop the enslavement, use, abuse and murder of other than human animals is the resolve to fight on their behalf!

    Do what you can, do what you must, be vegan warriors and true animal defenders and never compromise with their murderers and profiteers. The Animal Liberation Front is the answer. Seldom has there been such a personally powerful and internationally effective movement in human history. You cannot join the A.L.F. but you can become the A.L.F. And it was the proudest and most powerful thing I have ever done. When you leave this courtroom today don’t be dismayed by my incarceration. All the ferocity and love in my heart still lives on. Every time someone liberates an animal and smashes their cage, it lives on! Every time an activist refuses to bow down to laws that protect murder, it lives on! And it lives on every time the night sky lights up ablaze with the ruins of another animal exploiters’ business!

    That’s all Your Honor, I am ready to go to prison.

  127. #127 Prometheus
    April 1, 2011

    Composer99,

    Thank you, I stand corrected (because the cat is sitting in my/his seat).

    Kristen,

    I also grew up on a ranch, which is why I knew what the most probable response would be to a band of loonies trying to run off the cattle (or sheep, goats, alpacas, etc.). “sean michael” writes like someone who has had minimal exposure to animal behavior (apart from humans). He’s like the “nature worshipers” we used to have to rescue after they found out that “Nature” isn’t like Disneyland.

    Prometheus

  128. #128 Sauceress
    April 1, 2011

    I have a question for sean.
    Does your modelling agency actively verify, and guarantee, that the dyes in the clothes you model (also the make up you wear) are not tested on animals?
    Can you yourself guarantee that everything you wear has not been tested on animals during its production? Do you obtain verifiable evidence that this is indeed the case?

  129. #129 sean michael
    April 1, 2011

    I will no longer be addressing any questions until ORAC stops blocking my posts.

  130. #130 Narad
    April 1, 2011

    I will no longer be addressing any questions until ORAC stops blocking my posts.

    This should be good.

  131. #131 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    April 1, 2011

    Sean Michael,
    I am not Orac and do not speak for him. From previous comments, he typically does not block posts without good cause and informing the blockee. Sometimes the spam filter will hold your post until he can release it; as he has a real job, this may not happen immediately. Nobody quite knows what triggers the spam filter, though particular phrases, “too many” posts in too short a time, and excessive links can do so. Orac does not, as I understand it, control the spam filter.

  132. #132 Dedj
    April 1, 2011

    “I will no longer be addressing any questions until ORAC stops blocking my posts.”

    How coincidental that you’ve managed to find a justification for a pre-exisiting behaviour.

    Tip: you need to start at post #6 and onwards.

  133. #133 Composer99
    April 1, 2011

    sean michael says:

    I will no longer be addressing any questions until ORAC stops blocking my posts.

    Really? I wasn’t aware he was addressing any questions at all.

  134. #134 ArtK
    April 1, 2011

    @Sean:

    tomorrow.

    let’s see how many of you show up.

    Friday, April 1: Meet at Westfield Century City Shopping Mall (in front of Gelson’s Grocery) at 12:30PM SHARP. The parking garage is located off of Century Park Wy and Constellation Blvd, across from the MGM building.

    Darn… that’s what I get for not reading Orac until the afternoon. Gonna repeat this “event” again, Sean? I could use some laughs.

    @Gray Falcon

    If you’re truly out for justice, Mr. Micheal, why aren’t you in Bangkok, dealing with animal smugglers? Or Kenya, fighting poachers? Why are you only threatening college professors by proxy instead of taking on organized crime head on?

    Simply because those people have real guns and aren’t reluctant to use them on anyone who gets in their way. Sean would prefer to sit on the sidelines applauding (but not “promoting” – goodness to mercy, no) threats of violence against people who aren’t able to fight back.

    *sigh* It’s spring break and the 6-9yo crowd playing outside of my office sounds more mature than Sean.

  135. #135 Narad
    April 1, 2011

    Sean would prefer to sit on the sidelines applauding (but not “promoting” – goodness to mercy, no) threats of violence against people who aren’t able to fight back.

    Or, apparently, actually doing anything practical regarding this cause to which he is so voyeuristically committed. Then again, I wouldn’t actually want this asshole anywhere near the inside of a shelter.

  136. #136 Heliantus
    April 1, 2011

    @ Beamup

    I’ve occasionally wondered whether AR extremists are similar to Marxists.

    Look at Sean’s quote of “Walter’s Final Statement to the Court at his Sentencing” and replace keywords like animal/vegan by the equivalent keywords of any extreme ideology of your choice. You will get the typical final statement of someone having broken the law in the name of said ideology.

    There are similarities, that’s for sure.
    You don’t have to replace “oppressor”. This word is always there.

  137. #137 Sauceress
    April 1, 2011

    #329

    I will no longer be addressing any questions until ORAC stops blocking my posts.

    I smell your cop out Sean. You could have answered yes or no to my questions in far less words than the response/excuse you gave. If Orac is blocking your posts, how is it that #329 appeared?
    Dodging the question more likely. I’m pretty sure I already know the answer. I know quite a bit about clothing manufacture seeing as I’m a qualified pattern maker and I worked in the industry before I returned to uni to study science.
    You’re just another animal rights hypocrite. All wank and no substance!

  138. #138 Militant Agnostic
    April 2, 2011

    I doubt the court is interested in the precautions that I took to not harm any person or by-stander

    I wonder what precautions “Walter” took to make sure no firefighters were at risk of a wall falling on them or getting caught in a flashover.

  139. #139 Steelclaws
    April 2, 2011

    #338

    I wonder what precautions “Walter” took to make sure no firefighters were at risk of a wall falling on them or getting caught in a flashover.

    Militant Agnostic,

    Animal rights terrorists do not take even precautions to make sure no animals are hurt in their arson attacks:

    “UPDATE 1 – Arson – Highgate Farm, Highgate Lane, Normanby-by-Spital – Incident 42 of 19 July 2010 Officers investigating the arson at Highgate Farm as seen below, have arrested two men on suspicion of arson and blackmail. The men arrested are a 25 year-old man from London and a 25 year-old man from Driffield North Humberside. They were detained earlier today and remain in custody.We are now able to reveal that eight rabbits died in the blaze at the farm on Monday 19th July. The animals were in the rear of the van which was destroyed in the arson attack.”
    http://www.lincs.police.uk/News-Centre/Media-Briefings/Archive/29-07-2010-Media-Briefing.html

    It’s never been about animals, it’s all about frustration and a wish to lash out at someone. Were it not animal rights, it would be some other “cause”, or rather some other excuse.

  140. #140 Pareidolius
    April 2, 2011

    Zoolander @, well, too many to count . . .

    No shit nobody goes to the Roosevelt anymore (that’s some sad Lohan/Hilton-era shit). Well, nobody except goodlooking wannabes. I think you might actually be an ARA, since you seem to be completely humor impaired.

    So I suppose you’re thowing punches at Cabana or Element with your Prius in the goldzone out front. I doubt you could get into either one of them seeing as you’re 29, which is almost dead in your “industry.”

    And, no honey, I’d never give you an address of any kind. I know what you fucktards do with people’s info. Just meet me at the corner of Lincoln and Loma Alta at midnight tonight and bring your dancing shoes. I mean it. We’re really gonna settle this like totally hawt animal rights activist models. Moonwalk vs. Crunk at 20 paces.

    Crap, I’m so fucking mad I didn’t make you up. Lord Draconis is gonna kill me.

  141. #141 Pareidolius
    April 2, 2011

    And yes dear Sauceress, SM is a triumph of wank over substance, but what magnificent, weapons-grade wank it is!

  142. #142 Militant Agnostic
    April 2, 2011

    Steelyclaws @339

    Animal rights terrorists do not take even precautions to make sure no animals are hurt in their arson attacks:

    Colour me unsurprised. The mink releases pretty much indicated they either didn’t care about the local wildlife or were completely clueless about ecology although for a fur farm mink getting run over by a car versus remaining in captivity is probably six of one and a half dozen of the other. They are certainly clueless about the problems caused by invasive species.

  143. #143 Narad
    April 2, 2011

    I wonder what precautions “Walter” took to make sure no firefighters were at risk of a wall falling on them or getting caught in a flashover.

    Same as in his other arsons, no doubt.

  144. #144 Narad
    April 2, 2011

    Aha, from the February 2011 follow-up article:

    Prosecutor Gregory Holloway … noted that Bond also has prior arson convictions that had nothing to do with animal-rights issues. Holloway said Bond was convicted in Iowa in 1996 for lighting a pentagram on fire inside a church [and] convicted again in 1997 in Iowa for setting fire to a building, an incident that killed a family’s pet.

    That’s our Walter!

  145. #145 lilady
    April 2, 2011

    “Our Walter” is serving five years in the Federal Penitientiary, Golden, Colorado. “Our Walter” is also being investigated by the FBI for two additional fires at the Tandy Leather Factory and the Tiburon Restaurant. His plea for funds for his commissary account in prison and for his defense fund is available on the internet: Walter Edmund Bond Animal Rights Prisoner Support.

    They are all gangbangers, or unemployable “models” in between jobs or psycholpatholigally disordered arsonists such as “our Walter”.

  146. #146 BGT
    April 3, 2011

    Sighs, I am late to the party. I presume Sean is already gone.

    But, from a ballistics point of view, paintballs suck. You really can’t snipe with them since they are smoothbore “weapons”. No rifling = short range.

    Now, for real range you need a rifled weapon. A .243 is pretty good. Heavier bullet than a 5.56mm, longer range. Good for varmint hunting for things like prairie dogs.

    Now the 5.56mm isn’t bad, but it doesn’t have the range and ballistics of the .243.

    I won’t say paintball isn’t good for training, since it is for CQB, but I don’t think Sean knows a damn thing about CQB. He can keep his smoothbore.

  147. #147 BGT
    April 3, 2011

    One last thing about 400 yards….
    with a smoothbore @ 400 yards the target can sit there and laugh at the shooter.

    I doubt Sean is much better with a scoped rifle either. 400 yards takes patience and some ballistics training. I doubt he has either.

  148. #148 Pareidolius
    April 3, 2011

    Zoolander, where were you tonight? The skeptic posse was out in force and we had Tecate in the cooler, skrillex on the boombox but we were missing one vital, batshit crazy ingredient. Our dance-off was minus one goodlooking, totally rad, supermodel, paintball-captain, chick-dousing, animal-avenger dude. We danced anyway. I would have destroyed you with my awesome Crunk, so it’s just as well you bailed. And dude, the recoil from a thirty ought six would blow your spindly ass back into yesterday.

  149. #149 sean michael
    April 3, 2011

    hahahaha!!

    “tecate in the cooler”

    so ghetto.

    oh, I had to dj last night.

    why don’t you just come to the club i do? that way you can hang with some hot girls before you get lit the fuck up. I’ll even give you some drink tickets, so you can drink off the top shelf.

  150. #150 D. C. Sessions
    April 3, 2011

    SM, if you still haven’t gotten a clue: we might take you and the others seriously if you actually took on Tyson Foods, or Hormel, or any of the other animal “mass murderers.” But you won’t, because reducing animal suffering isn’t what you’re about. And it shows, but you’re nowhere near self-honest enough to confront that fact.

    There’s at least a vaguely plausible case against mass consumption of meat — but that’s not the ego boost you get from threatening the children of people who are working to save lives, now is it?

  151. #151 D. C. Sessions
    April 3, 2011

    I’m in Altadena shithead. Let’s dance…

    Very nice David Weber reference, Pareidolius, but I doubt that they are clueful enough to get it.

  152. #152 Pareidolius
    April 3, 2011

    But I was, and we did, and I must sheepishly admit that I have no clue as to who David Weber was before I looked him up on google just now.

    Back in NorCal now. I’ll miss you Sean Michael, I think it could have been a little slice of magic, you and I, n’était-ce pas?

  153. #153 D. C. Sessions
    April 3, 2011

    I’m having a blast here imagining SM and his associates trying to intimidate the Apache I shared a hospital room with last week. Little guy — maybe 5’4″, 120 pounds soaking wet. Skin looked like old tanned leather even though he was (at a guess) in his mid-40s — hard to tell with people like him, he could as easily have been 70.

    He was in for a tibial fracture, a messy one. He got the same titanium fixup that I had three years ago. He broke the leg when his horse came over backwards on him after a wild bull took exception to his being around. Another time, he’d been gored in the face, and another left him with plates and screws in the other leg.

    He was up and around with a walker and couldn’t wait to go home, and you could tell that orders to avoid weight bearing or not, it was going to be hard keeping him off of that leg. Our doc just looked after him as he left and said he’d be back. Riding for cattle is what he lives for. Puma, bear, elk, wild bulls — they’re just part of being out there in the mountains on a horse. Someday he just won’t come back.

    And SM thinks that he’s going to be intimidated?

  154. #154 D. C. Sessions
    April 3, 2011

    Dude! You mean that perfect comment was totally accidental?

    I’m in awe.

    For those who need a hint, “Let’s dance!” is the battle cry of the Audubon Ballroom — a fictional antislavery “direct action” group composed mostly of former slaves.

  155. #155 Tsu Dho Nimh
    April 4, 2011

    Sean Michael … OK, you are against using animals in research, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

    Are you willing to put your life on the line and refuse ALL established medical procedures that use animals or animal-derived reagents?

    Here’s a partial list of them:
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/678865/vegan_beware_animal_products_used_in.html

  156. #156 Tsu Dho Nimh
    April 4, 2011

    @43 lillady …

    Ether was originally tested on chickens by Paracelsus.

  157. #157 Anglachel the Common Sense Pagan
    April 4, 2011

    Tsu Dho Nimh, that..was..BEAUTIFUL!!! I followed your link and read the article and I couldn’t help but cackle with glee! For the truth is, there is not much in this world medically that hasn’t been touched by animal testing. That includes vetinary medicine, for all those animal rights activists out there!!

  158. #158 RobertC
    April 4, 2011

    Know what I know about animal study usefulness?

    Vivien Thomas, Drs Blalock and Taussig developed Blue Baby operations on dogs.

    The surgeons who saved my sons life and have made hom thrive learned from that. In case of the older ones, directly from Dr Thomas.

    Before that, now commonly repaired heart defects were a death sentence. Truncus arteriosus was too complex to even consider for many years. Now it is repaired soon after birth and the kids thrive.

    Sure, there are setbacks, deaths, and complications even today. But most do very well.

    All enabled by work on dogs.

    If you don’t like animal testing, then forgo treatments derived from it. If enough people do that, the testing will end peacefully when the market for the results dries up.

    Meanwhile, given that humane treatment (as much as possible) is provided to lab animals, all arguments to the contrary fail.

  159. #159 LisaG
    April 6, 2011

    DARE TO COMMENT HERE!

    http://negotiationisover.com/2011/04/06/war-on-student-vivisectors-victories-helpful-insights-from-the-enemy/

    Also, please don’t forget to tell everyone about our next protest at Alpha Genesis on April 16th.

    Thanks for all your help 🙂

    @Avicenna
    If people in this world disagree with everything else, no one can disagree with Camille’s words the time for civil discourse has expired. We are no longer going to do the same things activists did 25 years ago when animals are still experimented on. Logic or Terrorism?

    When people are really really REALLY means to you and hurt your feelings but not you, it’s just opinion and the first amendment protects that. Let’s not forget, you guys are sadists so it’s easy to see why your own activities could incite these reactions. That’s the reason virtually no law enforcement in our country would jail us let alone call us terrorists. Simply we are not. We have hurt no one and we aren’t sought as criminals. You can say that you feel as scared as you would if real terrorists talked about you, but that’s still not a crime. If I tell you- and I do here and now- that you are so evil that you’ll pay dearly for it, still not against the law. And as any law enforcement agency will tell you, it’s laughable that you think otherwise.

    You know, you didn’t every have to alert any law enforcement agencies. They have been here the whole time- hopefully taking YOUR names and numbers!

    Harassment as you define it, in your opinion, might be against the law at some point but we have never done that. You can argue and whine and tell everyone in the barnyard that the sky is falling but your words are in direct contradiction with how law enforcement treats us. Let me say that again only clearer. All US 3-letter agencies are trained and educated to protect. I don’t always love them, but you really need to humble yourself to their skills, just a little. THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED. They check in on us occasionally here but I’m kind of glad- they’ll keep us safe from you guys, LOL! You can post all over the place that there are terrorists running free threatening you guys- that is your first amendment right. But you must know at some point if people who are smarter and highly trained and specialize don’t agree with you, are you kind of acting like a fool? So what are YOU saying to these agencies that need you guys so badly to help them? That they aren’t trained and not doing their jobs, letting terrorists openly prey on US citizens? What you’re doing will work for awhile- and I commend you on your action planning skills. Especially after a bunch of you guys devised that survival plan. You definitely have them scared anyway. I cannot imagine though, no matter what more you say or write, why no one of and intelligence or importance is acting on your words and ideas. Probablly for the same reason they don’t act on ours. And that is how any idot can tell we’re not terrorists.

    Well I’m off to finish our ideas and flyers targeting the FL DEP for the Paynes Prairie animals. And targeting UF for refusing to release public records. And targeting the current congressional session on cutting funding for animal experimentation. And targeting Alpha Genesis in SC. Hey! Maybe you should call FBI agents you told about the NIO terrorists and warn them that we are coming for Alpha Genesis April 16th.

  160. #160 Gray Falcon
    April 6, 2011

    LisaG, do you remember this passage:

    Every time a vivisector’s car or home — and, eventually, the abuser him/herself — blows up, flames of liberation light up the sky. And now we have a golden opportunity to begin to destroy the foundations upon which Bogus Big Pharma and the academic-industrial complex rest — the vivisection research model can be made unworkable and obsolete.

    If this doesn’t suggest incitement to violence, I don’t know what does.

  161. #161 Heliantus
    April 6, 2011

    @ LisaG

    Where are you, you and all you self-righteous friends, when this happens?

    (caveat lurkers, shocking videos)
    It’s worse than anything scientists do to animals, even in your dreams.

    And don’t tell me it’s too far away for you to do anything about it. They are importing and selling the bloody stuff in the US, dammit. And I don’t use “bloody” as a figure of speech.

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