Respectful Insolence

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Ah, April Fools’ Day!

I had thought of trying to do a typical April Fools’ Day post, you know, something like trying to write something but the last time I tried to do that it fell really flat, so flat that I’m not even going to link to it. It’s better not to remind my readers of my jokes that fell completely flat. Better to move on to a more appropriate April Fools’ Day topic, a topic like the James Randi Educational Foundation’s annual Pigasus Awards. The basic idea is to give recognition where recognition is due for the five worst promoters of nonsense from the previous year.

For 2011, there are five very “worthy” award recipients. Two of them were what I would call “frequent fliers” on this blog, so to speak. For example, JREF gave Andrew Wakefield its Refusal to Face Reality Award, which is clearly richly deserved. Just type “Andrew Wakefield” in the search box of this blog if you don’t believe me. Wakefield is appropriately characterized as the researcher

…who launched the modern anti-vaccine panic with unfounded statements linking the MMR vaccine with autism that were not borne out by any research, even his own. In 2010, The Lancet retracted his paper on the MMR vaccine, and this year the British medical journal BMJ called Wakefield’s paper an outright fraud, finding “clear evidence of falsification of data” and that “he sought to exploit the ensuing MMR scare for financial gain,” taking more than $674,000 from lawyers who intended to sue vaccine manufacturers. Yet Wakefield continues to ask the public to believe he is the victim. In a recent article in NaturalNews, Wakefield called the American Academy of Pediatrics and The Lancet “instruments of a state that I don’t really want to be associated with.”

Yes, the hero of the anti-vaccine movement is certainly a “worthy” recipient for such a prize!

Then there’s Dr. Mehmet Oz, “America’s doctor.” Dr. Oz is a relatively new frequent topic of this blog. That’s because, although Dr. Oz has been borderline flaky for a long time, it was only over the last several months (the last three months, actually) that he went completely off the deep end, defending a man whom I consider to be one of the foremost purveyors of quackery on the Internet, Dr Joe Mercola; inviting a yogi on the show who promoted Ayruvedic medicine; promoting a faith healer; and finally, featuring self-proclaimed psychic medium John Edward and even asking whether psychics are the new therapists. As JREF so aptly states in its presentation of the Media Pigasus Award, Dr. Oz

…has done such a disservice to his TV viewers by promoting quack medical practices that he is now the first person to win a Pigasus two years in a row. Dr. Oz is a Harvard-educated cardiac physician who, through his syndicated TV show, has promoted faith healing, “energy medicine,” and other quack theories that have no scientific basis. Oz has appeared on ABC News to give legitimacy to the claims of Brazilian faith healer “John of God,” who uses old carnival tricks to take money from the seriously ill. He’s hosted Ayurvedic guru Yogi Cameron on his show to promote nonsense “tongue examination” as a way of diagnosing health problems. This year, he really went off the deep end. In March 2011, Dr. Oz endorsed “psychic” huckster and past Pigasus winner John Edward, who pretends to talk to dead people. Oz even suggested that bereaved families should visit psychic mediums to receive (faked) messages from their dead relatives as a form of grief counseling.

Unfortunately, the JREF award presentation doesn’t include all of Dr. Oz’s offenses. This is not JREF’s fault, because I’m sure the people preparing the awards finished them up a while ago. It was only just yesterday that Dr. Oz, not content with faith healing and psychic mediums, decided that he would embrace The One Woo To Rule Them All. That’s right; I’m talking about homeopathy. It was featured prominently two segments in yesterday’s show, first Alternative Pain Treatments (part II is here). First, Dr. Oz asks, “Could the ultimate antidote for your pain be found among the ancient secrets and cutting edge innovations of alternative treatments?”

In a word, no. But that doesn’t stop Dr. Oz from bringing Russ Greenfield, who is described as a “world expert” in integrative medicine. For those of you not familiar with the term, that means he’s good at “integrating” quackery with effective medicine. Right after Dr. Greenfield is introduced, an audience member asks him about using homeopathic remedies for pains, to which Dr. Greenfield’s initial response describes homeopathy as “among the most controversial” of alternative medicine. He got that one wrong homeopathy is pure pseudoscience and based on its very principles violates multiple laws of physics and chemistry. In other words, for homeopathy to work, much of what we know about physics, chemistry, and biology would have to be not just wrong, but spectacularly wrong. Another way of putting it is that homeopathy is “controversial” in the same way that the “moon hoax,” Holocaust denial, “9/11 Truth,” creationism, and the claim that vaccines cause autism are “controversial.” That doesn’t stop Dr. Oz from promoting it, stating that his wife uses it. (What a surprise! His wife is a reiki master; so she’s already proven that she has no grasp of science-based medicine.) Particularly painful to watch is Dr. Oz’s demonstration of how homeopathy is supposed to work. Seriously. It starts around 2:52 in the video. Meanwhile, Dr. Greenfield touts “scientific studies” that show that homeopathy works, finishing by saying that what’s important about homeopathy is that it makes us “question science” and that it’s always important to do that.

Well, yes, but there’s a huge difference between “questioning” science and promoting a pseudoscientific viewpoint that is known to be not just wrong but–you guessed it!–spectacularly wrong. But even more amusing (or appalling, depending upon your point of view), Dr. Greenfield states that you shouldn’t touch the homeopathic remedy because touching it can “inactivate it.” Yes, that’s right. You’ve got it. Your fingers can make the magic go away. Actually, I don’t know what’s worse, Dr. Greenfield saying such things or Dr. Oz recommending homeopathic Arnica for “trauma,” such as bruises and sprains. I wish I were kidding, but I’m not. But that’s not all the woo that Dr. Oz crams into one show. Oh, no. Next up, he brings in the “biopuncture,” which he touts as a “healing cure-all.”

What is biopuncture?

Basically, it’s homeopathy combined with acupuncture. Yes, it’s true that they deny that that’s what it is in the published material that Dr. Oz included with it, but the video doesn’t lie (nor do several websites), and if it weren’t a combination of acupuncture with homeopathy, why did they name it “biopuncture”? In any case, it appears that basically homeopathic remedies are injected into acupuncture points. I tell ya, ya can’t make stuff like this up. At least I can’t. Unfortunately, someone can:

Biopuncture is a therapy using mostly plant-based ultra-low dilution product formulas which are injected into specific body regions to relieve pain and inflammation. The majority of injections are micro-injections with a very small needle just under the skin or into the muscle. One of the benefits of directly injecting the area of pain appears to be a “turbo effect,” or a much faster healing response.

In conventional medicine, the drug you take suppresses your symptoms immediately. That is why you need to take high doses of chemical substances in order to suppress pain or inflammation. But as soon as the medication stops working, you have to take another pill to “kill the pain” again.

However, in biopuncture, small doses of products are injected in order to stimulate or “wake up” the natural healing processes. The healing effect comes from “inside” your body – not from the products themselves. It’s the reaction of your immune system, which will produce the proper reactions to regain natural healing.

The two most commonly injected products are ultra-low doses (ULDs or “micro-doses”) of mainly medicinal plant and mineral-based products and/or glucose.

It’s quite interesting to see Dr. Oz describe the “difference” between acupuncture and biopuncture. Basically, he discusses meridians and buys into them wholesale. To him, the difference is that acupuncture tries to hit those merdians, those places where “energy flows” precisely, while biopuncture involves injecting homeopathic remedies or low dose botanicals into acupuncture points in order to get “double the effect.” I realize that today is April Fools’ Day and I would have never thought that I’d see Dr. Oz embrace homeopathy and a variant of homeopathy that combines it with acupuncture. At least, I wouldn’t have thought it possible before Dr. Oz invited faith healers and John Edward onto his show. Truly, that’s crossing the Woo-bicon.

During the first season his show was on the air, Dr. Oz flirted with quackery, but remained mostly science-based. No more, apparently. For whatever reason, be it the relentless maw of time that must be fed to produce a daily hour-long talk show, the need for higher ratings, no longer caring about science and science-based medicine, or some combination of these, Dr. Oz and his producers have decided to go completely woo. No more flirting with quackery for Dr. Oz! No, he’s decided to embrace it in a great big bear hug and give it a huge sloppy kiss on the lips.

Sadly, I think we’ll be seeing a lot more of Dr. Oz in the Pigasus Awards over the next few years. At the very least, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Oz goes for a three-peat next year.

Comments

  1. #1 Steelclaws
    April 1, 2011

    Since both homeopaths and acupuncturists tend to be germ theory denialists, I can see some nasty side effects from this new combination woo. Not to mention a few trips to the ER.

  2. #2 Clam
    April 1, 2011

    On a scale of one to ten, surely Biopuncture must rate about eight boggles?
    …and the spell checker doesn’t believe in it, either.

  3. #3 LW
    April 1, 2011

    “Your fingers can make the magic go away.”

    How does your mouth not make the magic go away, then?

  4. #4 Kate from Iowa
    April 1, 2011

    And what about topical homeopathic remedies? You know…like arnica for bruises, strains, swellings…

    Oh, I know! I’m supposed to apply it homeopathically! Every time I move an inch towards the medication, I must stop and, doglike) spin around as fast as I can until I’m dizzy. Depending on how bad the injury is, I may need to do this 30, 100, or even 1000 times. Then, when I’ve been properly shaken (not stirred) I’ll be homeopathic enough not to damage the magic lactose pill when I take it!

    That or my brain will be so addled that I’ll believe in it.

    And biopuncture. Wow. Just wow. Biodynamic acupuncture. I’ll bet that’s why they try and say it’s not homeopathy. But er….biodynimic blah blah blah is homeopathy. You just bury it unstead of shaking it. Or bury it in addition to shaking it. Just…wow.

  5. #5 Composer99
    April 1, 2011

    I hope those solutions being injected are ultra-low dilution.

    I’d hate to imagine any ‘remedy’ using known toxic plants being used with enough active ingredient(s) to cause further harm.

    And what the heck is up with:

    In conventional medicine, the drug you take suppresses your symptoms immediately.

    They must use some fancy-pancy drugs. On the rare occasion I take a pill for a headache it’s usually 30 mins to an hours before it goes away.

  6. #6 Moderation
    April 1, 2011

    Biopuncture sounds a similiar to mesotherapy, which is promoted by some accupuncturist as a cosmetic treatment for cellulite involving the injection of chemicals, including homeopathic dilutions, into fat.

  7. #7 LW
    April 1, 2011

    I want some of those drugs too.

  8. #8 Vicki
    April 1, 2011

    Why is science the only thing they encourage questioning?

    Why not capitalism, or religion, or celebrity?

  9. #9 Scott Cunningham
    April 1, 2011

    Every day seems like April Fool’s Day here on RI.

    What’s next for Dr. Oz? Will his show be scheduled based on time cube? Not only does the synopsis list homeopathy and reiki, but you can’t tell when its on because the listing is rambling about “four corner day synchronous 24-hour time cube” in caps lock?

  10. #10 Heliantus
    April 1, 2011

    The majority of injections are micro-injections with a very small needle just under the skin or into the muscle.

    I would like to know what people who trust this acupuncture/biopuncture, are thinking of the merits of a medical procedure using small needles to inject small quantities of stuff under the skin or inside the muscle, vaccination.
    Because I’m a bloody suspicious bast***, I won’t be surprised if they don’t like it.
    On the other hand, this procedure seems designed to look like vaccination, but better (very very small needles, I promise).

    It’s the reaction of your immune system, which will produce the proper reactions…

    Oh? Looks like they are based on something real.

    …to regain natural healing.

    Ah. Vitalism. Never mind.

  11. I couldn’t bear to watch the whole thing, but I love how Oz (I can’t bring myself to honor his title right now) mentioned that homeopathic remedies should only be used for self limiting conditions. If they work, why limit their use to self limiting conditions? It was like a wink to the camera that homeopathy doesn’t really work, and should only be used when it doesn’t matter.

    Seeing as I didn’t watch the whole video, is biopuncture really not an April Fool’s embellishment to the post?

    What’s next, Bioreikipuncture? Let’s just wave vials of homeopathic remedies over acupuncture points to transfer the homeopathic energy into the chi points.

    I would say the homeopathy is controversial in the same sense the the Apollo Moon landing Hoax is controversial.

    Frankly there’s better evidence and plausibility for the existence of the Bigfoot monster (the monster animal, not the monster truck) than there is for the effectiveness of homeopathy.

    -Karl Withakay

  12. #12 Scott Cunningham
    April 1, 2011

    It’s really weird how much of the “natural healing” crowd who are into “triggering the body to heal itself” are antivax. Given vaccines “work with your body’s natural immune system” to promote faster cell-mediated immune response during subsequent infection.

    Heck, it’s like when paranoid freedom-squasher Joe McCarthy, at the height of his own Stalin-style political purge, accused Nancy Reagan of being Communist.

    Only that’s the vitalist’s starting point.

  13. #13 Composer99
    April 1, 2011

    Given that PZ Myers “outed” himself as being his poetic commenter Cuttlefish for April Fools, I’d say that it’s almost too bad Orac posted this gem back in November.

    It would have been a good pick for today.

  14. #14 Denice Walter
    April 1, 2011

    More “news from the front”:

    Last night I attended a vaccine lecture**book signing hosted by a young woman who has single-handedly created her own anti-vaccination website & political activism committee. I used a pseudo-nym and e-mail that was “several steps removed” so I might preserve my relative anonymity.Here’s what occured:
    Nearly 180 people attended filling the small auditorium at a suburban church: they seemed friendly enough, asking me about my own children. When I explained that I had none, I got a few confused smiles as they beat a hasty retreat. The lecturer got right down to business and declared: “We are anti-vaccines! We hate them. Let’s wipe out the epidemic that is vaccination off the face of the earth!”. After a 40 minute lecture along these lines, she offered to take questions: I jumped right up: I had a few.
    “What do you think of Mr Wakefield?”
    “He’s soooo hot!”
    “Well, I meant his *science*”
    “How would I know about *that*?”
    “What is your MA in?”
    “In marketting. I sell stuff.”
    After the Q&A as the author signed books, the attendees hob-nobbed,sampling delicious granola bars and herbal teas that were graciously offered. I passed.

    As I walked into the light spring rain of the NJ night towards my vehicle, I said to myself: you know, these people aren’t so different from me.It’s all about freedom of speech and other grand ideas like that, isn’t it? No harm could come from ideas and opinions? Oh well, this atheist couldn’t help but recall a saying of yore, my own personal fave, “The truth shall set you free”. And it will. On to the next.

    ** It’s April’s Fools.Have a nice day!

  15. #15 Vicki
    April 1, 2011

    Not to defend Oz (who I suspect is neither a good man nor a good wizard), but “self-limiting condition” doesn’t mean something is not worth treating. If I get a cold, I don’t just say “it’ll be gone in a week,” I drink hot liquids, and maybe take aspirin or an NSAID. I expect to be taking NSAIDs in a couple of days for menstrual cramps. Yes, I could just wait it out, but why should I?

  16. #16 Beamup
    April 1, 2011

    @ Vicki:

    True, but he’s also essentially saying “sure, use this stuff, but only so long as it doesn’t matter whether it works (and therefore I won’t get sued when you die)”.

  17. #17 lilady
    April 1, 2011

    Micro-injections? I bet the magical homeopathy potions are suspended in sterile water, not saline. Sterile water diluent injections burn like hell…so that the patient thinks he/she is getting “the real deal”.

    Don’t back-to-back Pigasus awards qualify Oz for some sort of “lifetime achievement award”or embedded-in-the-sidewalk star on the “Hollywood Walk of Fame”? Or, an Emmy award for “best daytime drama”?

  18. #18 Dangerous Bacon
    April 1, 2011

    “”triggering the body to heal itself”
    “regain natural healing”

    One unforgivable thing the alties have done is hijack the words “heal”/”healing”. It’s gotten so that I often bristle when I hear them, based on their constant misuse by the woo crowd. Seeing as how the body’s so good at healing itself (true enough in many circumstances) why the hell do we need a constant infusion of supplements and woo manipulations to counter “dis-ease”?

    It’s similar to how alties go on about nutrition, as though they invented that too.

  19. #19 Sastra
    April 1, 2011

    Denice Walter #14 wrote:

    The lecturer got right down to business and declared: “We are anti-vaccines! We hate them. Let’s wipe out the epidemic that is vaccination off the face of the earth!”.

    Ah, Denice, you sly skeptic you … you had me going till here. They’re never against vaccines: not in an open public forum.

    Happy April’s Fool to you, too ;

  20. #20 blf
    April 1, 2011

    What’s next, Bioreikipuncture?

    Quantum biopuncture.

  21. Vicki,

    I didn’t mean that self limiting conditions don’t matter, but that it is generally not a serious threat to life or limb or long term health if you use inert and ineffective (or no) treatments for self limiting conditions.

    Dr Oz was essentially saying, “Don’t use a homeopathic medication for anything other than minor health problems that go away on their own with no long term consequences.”

    My question for him is, if homeopathy is so effective, why limit it to only self liming conditions? What’s the scientific basis for limiting it to such? Why gloss over that recommendation without justifying and explaining it since some practitioners do actually recommend homeopathy for serious, non-self limiting conditions.

    Oz, since you can recommend homeopathic remedies in a few sentences, give us just one sentence as to why they must only be used for self limiting conditions. Frankly, given your audience, explain what a self limiting condition is, while you’re at it.

  22. Holistic New German Therapeutic NaturoCraniosacralChiroHomeoQuantumBioReikipuncture for the win!

    -Karl Withakay

  23. #23 WellDuuuh
    April 1, 2011
  24. #24 WellDuuuuh
    April 1, 2011
  25. #25 Roadstergal
    April 1, 2011

    In the Wooniverse, every day is April Fool!

  26. #26 herr doktor bimler
    April 1, 2011

    In conventional medicine, the drug you take suppresses your symptoms immediately

    So in contrast, biopuncture remedies do not affect the symptoms immediately…
    I imagine this is true, and am impressed by Oz’s ability to redefine a bug as a feature.

  27. #27 herr doktor bimler
    April 1, 2011

    The healing effect comes from “inside” your body – not from the products themselves. It’s the reaction of your immune system, which will produce the proper reactions to regain natural healing.

    So he’s describing the effects of no treatment at all. But we knew that.

  28. #28 Imogen
    April 1, 2011

    In the Wooniverse, every day is April Fool!

    You get an Internet from me, as I clean my drink off the silicone keyboardcover I had to buy after I started reading this blog!

    :-)

  29. #29 Uberogre
    April 1, 2011

    I’ve never been here before, but I think I like this site. It’s gonna take a while to go through all of your articles, though. So, give me time to really read through all of your articles. Hopefully, you will understand if I can’t offer my complete opinion yet.

    But, up where I’m from, medical professionals are usually not so caustic. They never ridicule those they disagree with to the degree that you and others here do. It’s gonna take a lot to convince me that you are actually sincere and legitimate as both a blogger and a doctor. So, let me offer a word of advice, if you will. Hopefully, you will at least consider it.

    Tone down the abusive rhetoric.

    You’ll never be taken seriously as a doctor and scientist if you continue with the logical fallacies and abusive rhetoric. Everyone’s gonna look at your constant bashing of those you disagree with and dismiss your points accordingly. They’ll turn to other sources for their information. Look around at several sites (here in particular: http://tinyurl.com/usb2 ) and you’ll see what I mean. I and others would like if you focused on more scientific matters instead of bashing those you don’t like.

    Please, desert the arrogant ridicule. Surely, you will gather more credibility when doing so.

    I also notice that you are a self-proclaimed scientist. Perhaps you could do some articles on magnetism and hippology (I own a horse and would like to see an article or two on hippotherapy and Autism). But, I do not wish to presume to tell you what to write; I’m only offering suggestions.

  30. #30 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    April 1, 2011

    I’ve never said anything quite like this in this forum, but…

    Concern troll is concerned.

  31. #31 Lawrence
    April 1, 2011

    Ummm, a scientist with accredited degrees and a doctor/researcher, active in the cancer field.

    Maybe you should actually read the blog and about it’s author before you comment.

  32. #32 Antaeus Feldspar
    April 1, 2011

    Uberogre, surely you know that the conclusions of the site you link to were debunked long ago as the 1950s by Martin Gardner? This video gives a pretty clear explanation of why the “logical fallacies” you claim to see are not what you think they are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

  33. #33 Craig
    April 1, 2011

    Antaeus,

    Good catch. Read every second word of Uberogre’s post. I noticed something was off with some of the language used. And then the “magnetism” comment and the “I own a Horse” really convinced me.

    Subtle troll was not so subtle.

  34. #34 Chris
    April 1, 2011

    Antaeus Feldspar, will you be so kind as to explain what that site was? I clicked on the tinyurl and got a place that looked like a search site for porn (it may be some new hack on tinyurl).

    Oh, and Uberogre, you should really meet Dr. Crislip, especially if you think “medical professionals are usually not so caustic.”

  35. #35 LW
    April 1, 2011

    “Read every second word of Uberogre’s post”?

    Am I too literal? I tried reading every other word of the comment but the result is just random words, not sentences. Is there a particular section that this applies to?

  36. #36 Anonymous
    April 1, 2011

    Antaeus Feldspar FTW.

  37. #37 Goldenmane
    April 1, 2011

    The funniest thing about “biopuncture” is that it fundamentally goes against the (completely bollocks, but very detailed and refined) principles of acupuncture. Never, in acupuncture, is the site of pain treated directly – it’s all about sticking needles in supposedly related areas of the body, so if you have, say, a sore knee, you might get needles stuck into your opposite foot and your shoulder. Depending, of course, on the practitioner.

    Always baffles me that the people promoting this sort of bullshit don’t even know what the bullshit they’re promoting is actually supposed to be about.

  38. #38 Antaeus Feldspar
    April 1, 2011

    Chris:

    I’m not exactly sure what Uberogre’s actual intent was. The domain that you go to if you click the tinyurl in their message is named after an infamous “shock site” photo.* On the other hand, there is no functioning website at that domain. So, Uberogre might have been saying to themselves “Ha ha ha, I’ll trick them into viewing something awful!” or might have been saying “ha ha, I’ll let them know they got tricked, but not in a way that actually makes them view something awful; they’ll just know that I *could* have!”

    * Though frankly, it’s really the most innocuous of the classic “shock site” images; you can actually look at it as rather sweet its own way.

  39. #39 Denice Walter
    April 1, 2011

    @ Sastra: Thanks, I aims to please. I thought about going to LKH’s vaccine “seminar” yesterday ( Summit, NJ) but real life intervened.

    I should try harder to attend woo-ful events like this because, for some reason, I don’t seem to raise suspicions and am enthusiastically welcomed- I suspect it has something to do with my appearance and demeanor.

  40. #40 Chris
    April 1, 2011

    Antaeus Feldspar, thank you. So the guy who was chastising Orac’s rhetoric was engaging in idiotic juvenile behavior. Why am I not surprised.

  41. #41 lilady
    April 1, 2011

    I couldn’t link to tinyurl. “Uberogre”…must be Herr Doktor Bimler pulling an April Fool’s Day prank.

  42. #42 Anonymous
    April 1, 2011

    Dr. Oz, Andrew Wakefield and others, um, ‘honored’ by James Randi

    http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-dr-oz-andrew-wakefield-james-randi-awards-20110401,0,3573991.story

    “We doubt that either Dr. Oz or Andrew Wakefield will be proudly displaying these honors on their mantelpieces”

  43. #43 lilady
    April 1, 2011

    @ Anonymous: Lovely story at the L.A. Times. I read the comments (6) by two posters. Three posts from the editor of Age of Autism and Wakefield’s innocence and blah, blah, blah. Another three postings from Winfield Abbe about the ineptitude of the cancer treatments doctors, alternative treatments that cure cancer, the crookedness of big pharma, hospitals, etc. Mr. Abbe is the local crank Letters-To-The-Editor guy in Athens, Georgia.

  44. #44 Big Blue
    April 2, 2011

    @ Uberogre:
    You may wish to consider that many previous true believers have been won over to the skeptical side by Orac’s truth-telling. Just think of it in terms of pushing the Overton Window a little further towards sanity. Lost minds who are deep in Woo-ville have already removed themselves from the discourse anyway; they refuse to be reached by reason.
    The real audience is people who aren’t decided one way or the other, but may be under the mistaken impression that there is some sort of debate on the subject, where none exists. Game are all well and good when people’s lives and well being are not at stake, but there are many cases of proven harm from people who withhold proper treatment from their children, who shouldn’t be made to suffer from a parent’s ignorance.

    Also, I’m a missionary for the Church of the Latter-Day Saints, and I’d like to share my beliefs with you!

    Link for the folks who find this comment and Uberogre confusing: http://artoftrolling.memebase.com/

  45. #45 dedicated lurker
    April 2, 2011

    * Though frankly, it’s really the most innocuous of the classic “shock site” images; you can actually look at it as rather sweet its own way.

    I had to check it, and I was right – it’s supposed to be lemonparty. (I think the initial surprise with that particular image is that most people don’t think of sexually explicit material with elderly individuals.) Yeah, it doesn’t really rate on the shock meter. There’s far, far worse.

  46. #46 k
    April 2, 2011

    Oz must be into the magic mushrooms again… Pay no attention to the man inside the scrubs!

  47. #47 k
    April 2, 2011

    Oz must be into the magic mushrooms again… Pay no attention to the man inside the scrubs!

  48. #48 herr doktor bimler
    April 2, 2011

    must be Herr Doktor Bimler pulling an April Fool’s Day prank.

    I would not behave so badly on a reputable blog like this.

  49. #49 Antaeus Feldspar
    April 2, 2011

    I’m really inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to Uberogre, that it was the harmless April Fool’s Day prank it ended up being.

  50. #50 lilady
    April 2, 2011

    I hereby apologize to Herr Doktor Bimler.

  51. #51 One Queer Fish
    April 3, 2011

    NEWSFLASH!!BRIAN DEER WON APRIL FOOLS 2011 AWARD L-()-()-K

    Proof that Brian Deer Has No Idea What He Is Talking About

    http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2011/03/proof-that-brian-deer-has-no-idea-what.html

    Today on another blog, a link to a UK governmental published supplimental on autism was published and Brian Deer stopped by to visit.

    Although the piece in question didn’t address the environmental causes of autism, Deer left a note about the environmental causes of autism.

    It said that if it turned out that autism was environmentally caused, that the public would look back in hatred at those who advocated that autism was environmental. I kid you not:

    Brian Deer
    March 31st, 2011
    13:48:59

    Looks like the NAS is getting its shit together. It has taken them long enough, if you ask me. But I’m sure everyone will be glad to see them going out to spread their message. Ditto Bob MacNeil coming back for a PBS series of reports.

    If those who believe that there may be environmental causes of developmental disorders turn out to be right, people will look back at this interlude caused by Wakefield, Jenny McCarthy, the Age of Hatred site and so forth with burning outrage.

    If there are toxic substances out there doing harm to children (and I recall Tom Insel at NIH pretty much saying that there were too many candidates to know where to start) then there’s not one minute of time and not one cent in public money to be wasted over those lying fools.

    The only way I can reckon that he thinks this makes sense is if he believes that vaccine causation was different than environmental causation rather than a part of environmental causation. And the only way that the thinks that, is if he actually doesn’t even know what environmental causation arguments are being offered by Jenny McCarthy, Age of Autism, Me, my readers and that guy he probably should have heard of by now, Andrew Wakefield. (He has been in the press a LOT. Not sure how Deer could have missed it.) His comment on Insel seems to betray that he does not realize that Insel had to begrudgingly admit that we were right about environmental causes, and that he had to say, “who knows where to start” to throw people off of the obvious place, the two studies that show that mercury emitting coal plants raise autism rates.

    Brian… Vaccine induced autism IS PART of the environmentally induced autism theory. Here… let me draw you a diagram.

    Read more great simple diagrams even you thick bits of shot on here will understand

    http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2011/03/proof-that-brian-deer-has-no-idea-what.html

  52. #52 Chris
    April 3, 2011

    Big whoop. It does not alter the fact that even if the Wakefield had not committed fraud: it was just a case series of a dozen kids which did not find an association between either MMR (kids were vaccinated before and after 1992) and autism.

    Questions about Wakefield started when he made statements at a press release that were not supported by what was written in the paper.

    It has nothing to do with Deer, it has everything to do with Wakefield committing fraud.

    And yes, Wakefield has been in the press recently. Mostly due to fourteen cases of measles in Minneapolis that put more than half in the hospital:

    So, I decided to go to the source. I wrote to the Minnesota Department of Health, which has been providing regular updates on the outbreak. I received a response from Patricia Freeman on March 30, 2011. According to Freeman, the 8 hospitalizations that had been reported to date were all in children under 5 years of age and were “seriously ill” enough to require hospitalizations.

    Your continuing admiration for Wakefield is bordering on delusional.

  53. #53 herr doktor bimler
    April 3, 2011

    Thick pieces of shot — artist’s depiction.

  54. #54 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    April 3, 2011

    OQF – IF vaccines caused autism, then they could be considered part of the environmental causes. To the best of my understanding, there is no credible evidence that vaccines, out of billions and billions of possible environmental causes, actually causes autism. If you have evidence to the contrary that has been published in reputable journals, actually says what you think it says, has been confirmed by independent research teams, and which has not been found to be fraudulent, been retracted by the journal, and led to someone losing their license, please feel free to share.

  55. #55 One Queer Fish
    April 3, 2011

    La la!!can`t hear you got my fingers in my ears..

    Lets see..very obvious isn`t it that Deer knows shit?

    Deer is up for an award this week.. The British Journalism Awards.

    He has just won April F-()-()-L 2011

    wtf is he thinking about he needs to go back to kindergarten

  56. #56 The Analyst
    April 3, 2011

    OQF – IF vaccines caused autism, then they could be considered part of the environmental causes. To the best of my understanding, there is no credible evidence that vaccines, out of billions and billions of possible environmental causes, actually causes autism. If you have evidence to the contrary that has been published in reputable journals, actually says what you think it says, has been confirmed by independent research teams, and which has not been found to be fraudulent, been retracted by the journal, and led to someone losing their license, please feel free to share.

    But if it is something like a lab recombinant retrovirus from a vaccine, would that be an environmental cause? Well, perhaps the environmental cause could be secondary to the retrovirus.

    This has nothing to do with Autism, but I have made posts asking similar question only a week or so ago.

    I’m surprised to find my crazy theory explained in The Lancet. Doh!

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2811%2970081-0/fulltext?elsca1=TLID-290311&elsca2=email&elsca3=segment

    Of course, a contaminated vaccine obviously doesn’t equal disease, but if it does, that can of worms I was talking about before would burst open.

    Speculating is ok, and it is often one of the first steps to identifying a problem.

  57. #57 One Queer Fish
    April 3, 2011

    The Analyst

    I`ll get back to you on that..in the meantime keep that brain of yours healthy the world needs people like you ,like a hole in the head …kiss kiss

  58. #58 One Queer Fish
    April 3, 2011

    Since Brian Deer has just won April F-()-()-L 2011

    He should walk, the talk at the The British Journalism Awards as the standards and competition are former junkies and the like. I think the employers he claims to work for(but he does`nt)are paying for the event just like the paper they own ,the only paper that will publish all the good stories about GSK that nobody else will touch..costs the earth to do as well big huge money drain,such a waste..deer deer no time for small talk have to look good I just I might pip him at the awards ..wish me luck!!

  59. #59 Denice Walter
    April 3, 2011

    @ Chris- my own take on Andy ( my contemporary, I believe):
    My prof highlighted the work of Sir Cyril Burt: i.e. his “fix” and its effect on social and educational policy: if intelligence were greatly inherited, why assist the disadvantaged, why spend on schools? Research has consequences in policy.

    I learned about how Burt’s correlations were _identical_ (which would be highly unlikely by chance alone) across several studies, how he created *imaginary* assistants and reports, etc. We were all horrified.

    Now maybe it’s only my fertile imagination, but I can’t help but wonder if my contemporary, Andy, had heard the same sordid story by *his* prof but was *instead* taking mental notes on what *not* to do in order _not to get caught_. *His* particular fix one-ups Sir Cyril.
    ( Oh what a tangled web we weave, etc.)

  60. #60 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    April 3, 2011

    It appears OQF is merely here to say how much he hates Brian Deer.

  61. #61 Chris
    April 3, 2011

    OQF is also spamming another person’s blog. Time to ignore the little fishy and the blog he is flogging.

  62. #62 LW
    April 3, 2011

    “he had to say, “who knows where to start” to throw people off of the obvious place, the two studies that show that mercury emitting coal plants raise autism rates.”

    So OQF is telling us that Brian Deer is right that Wakefield’s claims are fraudulent, since the MMR has never contained mercury?

  63. #63 lilady
    April 4, 2011

    @ Chris: Great Link and thank you. It is a very high rate of hospitalization but to be expected when infants and children less than one year old are infected. Containment of the outbreak is a monumental task for the Local and State Health Departments. There is an excellent analytical article on a similar outbreak in Indiana in 2005 available on the internet, published in the NEJM-August 3, 2006:

    Implications of a 2005 Measles Outbreak in Indiana for Sustained Elimination of Measles in the United States

    A total of 34 cases of measles were either lab confirmed or epidemiologically linked to the index case who had recently traveled to Romania. Three of the cases (9 %) were hospitalized; one of the three was on ventilator support. The index case and most of the linked cases belonged to a church sect that didn’t “believe” in immunizations and were home-schooled.

    @ One Queer Fish: Thanks for letting us know that Brian Deer was nominated for a British Journalism award. I know my fellow posters here are delighted that his excellent investigative skills and detailed reporting of the Wakefield fraud have been honored with his nomination. Um, you might want to let Andy know about this…he lives in Austin, Texas.

  64. #64 One Queer Fish
    April 4, 2011

    Lilady ,,when are they going to give you an award for that beautiful post so it wasn`t..

    Meantime outside the Pharma bubble see what the public think of Deer being nominated for an award.. and,read the comments..and,stop the tripping guys.. and,like Seth Smooken get sober ..and,on second thoughts dont he did less harm shooting up ,and robbing old ladys for the smak..I thought his name would be up but not yet ..less competition for me..

    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=46740&c=1#comment-156195036

  65. #65 Sauceress
    April 4, 2011

    And the only way that the thinks that, is if he actually doesn’t even know what environmental causation arguments are being offered by Jenny McCarthy, Age of Autism, Me, my readers…

    I wonder if John Stone has lost track of one of his socks again.

  66. #66 Sauceress
    April 4, 2011

    #51
    Adventures in Autism?
    Ginger Taylor?
    Interesting post re Ginger Taylor from a 2010 thread here at RI. (not linking…still having enough trouble posting as it is but it’s not too hard to find)

    @Orac
    “The mercury militia parties like it’s 2005 (September 21, 2010.)

    @comment #311 Sauceress

    Also, I want to thank Jake for linking that AoA page @291
    Interesting comment by Ginger Tayler there…

    Ginger Taylor |October 03, 2010 at 11:44 AM
    After my son regressed into autism following his 18 month shots, I was told it was not the shots. So I looked for research to back that up. I found MMR/autism research, but my son didn’t get MMR. I found thimerosal research, but he had not gotten thimerosal at that visit either.

    Wait…no MMR? No Thimerosal? But..but..

    NB:Of course, that particular comment (plus the majority of the comments on that thread over at AoA) have since been disappeared.
    However Jake Cosby followed up when I posted the quote, in turn commenting (@#313 “The mercury militia parties like it’s 2005″)on Ginger’s post.

    Poor AoA…how they must wish they were able to censor RI the way they do their own blog.

  67. #67 Sauceress
    April 4, 2011

    Bah..blockquote fail!

    Ginger’s quote runs from “Ginger Taylor…to…he had not gotten thimerosal at that visit either.”

    ps If this post goes through, that’s three in a row (sorry about that)and cause for celebration in light of my trial and error posting experiences, or rather lack of, over the past few weeks.
    *does a little happy dance*

  68. #68 lilady
    April 4, 2011

    @ Sauceress: Ginger Taylor-I already read a blog about her at SBM, but good for you for outing this crackpot with her actual postings. She and the fish should think about suing whatever schools they attended for failure to provide the basics, such as spelling, sentence structure, punctuation and how a Venn diagram is constructed.

    When is Andy going back to the U.K.?

  69. #69 One Queer Fish
    April 4, 2011

    And the winner is Brian Deer April F()()L 2011
    No doubt Deer will get the Journo award as well.
    No doubt Deer will get the Nobel prize.

    Yeh!its all coming his way now he deserves all he gets like a hurricane ,he gets bigger and bigger and he sucks everyone in, gets sucked in himself and wham! self implode !!Pharma will show dear Brian Deer the same respect as is shown for a used condom..

  70. #70 One Queer Fish
    April 5, 2011

    AOA put it exactly correct a Brian Deer in the headlights.If he got in my headlights I would sink the pedal and flatten him..

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/04/a-brian-deer-in-the-headlights-allowed-to-report-on-self-created-story.html?cid=6a00d8357f3f2969e2014e60673d09970c#comment-6a00d8357f3f2969e2014e60673d09970c

    A Deer in the Headlights’ two years on: why was Brian Deer allowed to go on reporting on a story which he himself had created?

    With Brian Deer up for ‘Specialist Journalist of the Year’ tomorrow night at the British Press Awards, which are being held at the Savoy Hotel in London, Age of Autism re-visits the Spectator article of celebrated British journalist, Melanie Phillips. Phillips’s article documents amongst other things how Deer and the General Medical Council came to an agreement that he would not be named as complainant against Andrew Wakefield and the other Royal Free doctors so he could go on reporting the story unencumbered. Two years on the questions just go on multiplying: how for instance did it come about that the chair of GMC panels, Harvey Marcovitch, went out of his way to endorse Deer’s renewed allegations in British Medical Journal with key parts of the hearing still under judicial review (HERE )? How is it that the British state in all its manifold guises has turned a prolonged blind eye to how Deer obtained and used confidential medical and legal documents in presenting his allegations both publicly and secretly, and why the British Medical Journal and its editor-in-chief, Fiona Godlee, refuse even to allow the matter to be mentioned in it columns (HERE)? How can the BMJ go on touting allegations which are not only flawed in detail, but in basic logic (HERE)? As the British Establishment’s Lord High Executioner arrives at the Savoy for his professional apotheosis, we ask whether the media have been following the real story in the Wakefield affair.

  71. #71 Chris
    April 5, 2011

    Repetitive fishy is cutting and pasting repetitively.

    Brian Deer has just won “Specialist Journalist of the Year.”

  72. #72 Gray Falcon
    April 5, 2011

    One Queer Fish, your idée fixe is showing. And don’t declare victories you haven’t won yet, that’s what mad scientists (and occasionally corrupt corporate executives) do right before the heroes show up.

  73. #73 lilady
    April 5, 2011

    @ Chris: Of course fishy is cutting and pasting from Age of Autism…the article is written in plain English, with no misspellings and includes punctuation. Funny, how Age of Autism now attacks Brian Deer (kill the messenger), the BMJ and the British Medical Society and continues to support Andy’s bogus research.

    It is great news that Brian Deer won the “Specialist Journalist of the Year” award…he deserves it for his thorough research and excellent articles about Andy’s professional fraud and conflicts of interest.

    When is Andy going back to the U.K.???

  74. #74 herr doktor bimler
    April 5, 2011

    I’m not sure whether OQF in plagiarism mode is better or worse than the gibbering incoherence.

  75. #75 One Queer Fish
    April 5, 2011

    What a incredibly tatty and drear non-event?Cant believe I jus sat and watched that I never just listened to the sound can`t stand pictures of Death Deer..

    Apri F()()L ward forDeer as well as the non-Specialpisst Journaliar of the Year” award.

    Just confirms Murdochs control and the dire straits of Journalism .

    Did you hear the boo`s for the first award Deer was nominated for and never got,boy they kept him sweating.. here it is, no it isn`t.

    Hey respect where its due Brian ,like the used condom you will be flushed away by the Murdochs-Pharma et-al respect ,,ha !ha! Just what Deer deserves..

  76. #76 One Queer Fish
    April 5, 2011

    I`m not alone were waiting..

    http://actionforautism.co.uk/2011/04/05/brian-deer-wins-award-for-mmr-reporting/

    Brian Deer wins award for MMR reporting
    Congratulations to Brian Deer for winning the award for Specialist Journalist of the Year at the British Press Awards tonight. According to the judges,

    “The winner showed outstanding perseverance, stamina and revelation on a story of major importance. It led to a tremendous righting of a wrong on MMR.”

    In Deer’s acceptance speech there was thinly veiled criticism of the journalists who gave Andrew Wakefield a free ride for so long in as well as the suggestion that, in giving him the award, the British newspaper industry was acknowledging these past mistakes and had finally got it right.

    “I’d just like to say that this award does have my name on it but in many ways I think this is an award for the industry as a whole. Because this is a story where some of us, some of my colleagues,our colleagues I think got the story wrong and became prisoners of their sources for over a long period of time. And I think this is an award for an industry that gets it right and an industry that I am very proud to be a party to.”

    This is not the first time Brian Deer has won this award. He won the same award in 1999. It is interesting, in view of attempts to smear him as hireling of the pharmaceutical industry, that the Times reported

    The judges were impressed by his investigations in the field of medicine, saying he was probably “the only journalist in Britain that polices the drugs companies.” Deer’s award wining articles in the Sunday Times Magazine, ranged from vaccine-damaged children to the hidden side effects of Viagra.

    Prior to that in 1985 he had exposed fabricated evidence for the safety of contraceptive pills by a scientist employed by German drug company, Schering AG. His investigation of The Wellcome Trust in 1994 was followed by the withdrawal in the UK of a blockbuster antibiotic, Septrin, Bactrim, and the sale of the trust’s pharmaceutical subsidiary Wellcome Foundation. And, as if to show to his critics that he had not been bought off by big pharma in order to go after Wakefield, in 2005 he was hot on the heels of MMR manufacturers Merck over deadly side effects of the drug Vioxx.

    So congratulations Brian. Hopefully you will not have to write about Wakefield and MMR again. But I am sure that there will be plenty of future wrongdoers in need of exposure to your “outstanding perseverance,stamina and revelation.”

  77. #77 Sauceress
    April 5, 2011

    Queerest fish
    You forgot to say that Brian Deer is really ugly too.
    Don’t forget ad hom when you have absolutely nothing else.

  78. #78 One Queer Fish
    April 5, 2011

    http://actionforautism.co.uk/2011/04/05/brian-deer-wins-award-for-mmr-reporting/

    Brian Deer wins award for MMR reporting
    Congratulations to Brian Deer for winning the award for Specialist Journalist of the Year at the British Press Awards tonight. According to the judges,

    “The winner showed outstanding perseverance, stamina and revelation on a story of major importance. It led to a tremendous righting of a wrong on MMR.”

    In Deer’s acceptance speech there was thinly veiled criticism of the journalists who gave Andrew Wakefield a free ride for so long in as well as the suggestion that, in giving him the award, the British newspaper industry was acknowledging these past mistakes and had finally got it right.

    “I’d just like to say that this award does have my name on it but in many ways I think this is an award for the industry as a whole. Because this is a story where some of us, some of my colleagues,our colleagues I think got the story wrong and became prisoners of their sources for over a long period of time. And I think this is an award for an industry that gets it right and an industry that I am very proud to be a party to.”

    This is not the first time Brian Deer has won this award. He won the same award in 1999. It is interesting, in view of attempts to smear him as hireling of the pharmaceutical industry, that the Times reported

    The judges were impressed by his investigations in the field of medicine, saying he was probably “the only journalist in Britain that polices the drugs companies.” Deer’s award wining articles in the Sunday Times Magazine, ranged from vaccine-damaged children to the hidden side effects of Viagra.

    Prior to that in 1985 he had exposed fabricated evidence for the safety of contraceptive pills by a scientist employed by German drug company, Schering AG. His investigation of The Wellcome Trust in 1994 was followed by the withdrawal in the UK of a blockbuster antibiotic, Septrin, Bactrim, and the sale of the trust’s pharmaceutical subsidiary Wellcome Foundation. And, as if to show to his critics that he had not been bought off by big pharma in order to go after Wakefield, in 2005 he was hot on the heels of MMR manufacturers Merck over deadly side effects of the drug Vioxx.

    So congratulations Brian. Hopefully you will not have to write about Wakefield and MMR again. But I am sure that there will be plenty of future wrongdoers in need of exposure to your “outstanding perseverance,stamina and revelation.”

  79. #79 Antaeus Feldspar
    April 5, 2011

    And OQF certainly has nothing else.

    The issue is not “is Brian Deer ugly” or “is Brian Deer an award-quality journalist” or even “is Brian Deer the complainant in the GMC case against Wakefield even though the GMC says he is not” or even “how did Brian Deer obtain the information he did about the Lancet children.”

    The issue is did Andrew Wakefield commit fraud and deception upon the public? And that is the issue from which OQF runs in fear; he knows that Wakefield’s work is indefensible, so he perseverates on the subject of Brian Deer instead!

  80. #80 lilady
    April 5, 2011

    Chris, don’t tell me that I shouldn’t engage Fishy because he is obviously mentally deranged. He is a potty-mouthed troll, lacking basic knowledge of English, a paste-up expert and probably has “imaginary” children, as well. He cannot contain his jealousy of Brian Deer..or anyone..who is educated, diligent, productive and is honored for contributions to science reporting.

    I viewed a poster on another anti-vax site where the attack on Brian Deer (kill the messenger) was discussed. The poster connected the dots for the attack on Deer based on their specious argument that anyone who investigates shouldn’t be the reporter. The poster reminded us of the excellent investigative skills of Woodward and Bernstein associated with the Watergate break-in by Nixon’s “Plumbers” and dogged development of the connections with Nixon’s re-election team. No one ever questioned any conflict of interest with the investigative team also reporting. In fact, they were honored by every American Journalists’ associations for their efforts.

    When is Andy going back to the U.K.???

  81. #81 Militant Agnostic
    April 5, 2011

    I am listening to an interview with James Randi about the Pigasus awards on CBC Radio One As it Happens.

  82. #82 Chris
    April 5, 2011

    I don’t know, I think Fishy has been swimming in some gin.

  83. #83 DW
    April 5, 2011

    @ lilady : Andy goes back to the UK when there is no longer any money ( or adulation) in the US left for charlatans.

  84. #84 lilady
    April 5, 2011

    @ Militant Agnostic: Got it!!…amazing that this tech-deficient poster on a 6 year old laptop located the audio player at:

    CBC.ca As It Happens

    Randi’s interview is in Part I at 20:33 minutes into the 28.59 minute audio stream.

    Randi is high up on my heroes list…below Orac, of course.

  85. #85 One Queer Fish
    April 6, 2011

    http://actionforautism.co.uk/2011/04/05/brian-deer-wins-award-for-mmr-reporting/

    Brian Deer wins award for MMR reporting
    Congratulations to Brian Deer for winning the award for Specialist Journalist of the Year at the British Press Awards tonight. According to the judges,

    “The winner showed outstanding perseverance, stamina and revelation on a story of major importance. It led to a tremendous righting of a wrong on MMR.”

    In Deer’s acceptance speech there was thinly veiled criticism of the journalists who gave Andrew Wakefield a free ride for so long in as well as the suggestion that, in giving him the award, the British newspaper industry was acknowledging these past mistakes and had finally got it right.

    “I’d just like to say that this award does have my name on it but in many ways I think this is an award for the industry as a whole. Because this is a story where some of us, some of my colleagues,our colleagues I think got the story wrong and became prisoners of their sources for over a long period of time. And I think this is an award for an industry that gets it right and an industry that I am very proud to be a party to.”

    This is not the first time Brian Deer has won this award. He won the same award in 1999. It is interesting, in view of attempts to smear him as hireling of the pharmaceutical industry, that the Times reported

    The judges were impressed by his investigations in the field of medicine, saying he was probably “the only journalist in Britain that polices the drugs companies.” Deer’s award wining articles in the Sunday Times Magazine, ranged from vaccine-damaged children to the hidden side effects of Viagra.

    Prior to that in 1985 he had exposed fabricated evidence for the safety of contraceptive pills by a scientist employed by German drug company, Schering AG. His investigation of The Wellcome Trust in 1994 was followed by the withdrawal in the UK of a blockbuster antibiotic, Septrin, Bactrim, and the sale of the trust’s pharmaceutical subsidiary Wellcome Foundation. And, as if to show to his critics that he had not been bought off by big pharma in order to go after Wakefield, in 2005 he was hot on the heels of MMR manufacturers Merck over deadly side effects of the drug Vioxx.

    So congratulations Brian. Hopefully you will not have to write about Wakefield and MMR again. But I am sure that there will be plenty of future wrongdoers in need of exposure to your “outstanding perseverance,stamina and revelation.”

  86. #86 One Queer Fish
    April 6, 2011

    You see respect where its due ,like the condom Brian you are..

  87. #87 lilady
    April 6, 2011

    @ Fishy: Upset that you weren’t invited to the awards ceremony? Or, upset that weren’t invited to the post-award festivities honoring Brian Deer?

    Why not call Andy to see if you can pick up his Pigasus Award. I’m sure Randi would arrange for a photographer, so that you have a permanent reminder of the auspicious event.

  88. #88 One Queer Fish
    April 6, 2011

    Got my award last night ,sorry cant point you to my picture on the video ,well chuffed..unlike Deer I got a big cheer

    Cheer-less Deer got sneered..at by all Hey thats respect by your fellow profession??

    pucker!

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