ResearchBlogging.orgOne of the stranger Internet-based quackery phenomena of the last decade is Morgellon’s disease. This is a topic I haven’t visited that much on this blog, its having last come up in a big way a little more than a year ago, when I discussed it in the context of Dr. Rolando Arafiles and the other quackery he was promoting. This led to extreme unhappiness on the part of self-proclaimed Morgellons disease “expert” Marc Neumann, who later bombarded me with threatening e-mail rants. In any case, whatever Morgellons disease is, its cause is almost certainly not what patients think it is, namely the presence of tiny organisms in the skin leading to a chronic itch that leads to chronic scratching. Its adherents describe it thusly:

Morgellons is a multi-symptom disease that is just now starting to be researched and understood. It has a number primary symptoms:

Physical

  • Sponanteously Erupting Skin lesions
  • Sensation of crawling, biting on and under the skin
  • Appearance of blue, black or red fibers and granules beneath and/or extruding from the skin
  • Fatigue

Mental

  • Short-term memory loss
  • Attention Deficit, Bipolar or Obsessive-Compulsive disorders
  • Impaired thought processing (brain fog)
  • Depression and feelings of isolation

It is frequently misdiagnosed as Delusional Parasitosis or an Obsessive Picking Disorder.

Except that delusional parasitosis is probably not a misdiagnosis. The “fibers” or “granules” found in the skin virtually always turn out to be consistent with fibers from clothing or other sources. At least, no advocate of Morgellons disease has ever demonstrated them to be anything mysterious. This concept has led to treatments for Morgellons that resemble those of chronic Lyme disease, namely chronic antibiotic use. Indeed, interestingly, Morgellons advocates frequently link Lyme disease to Morgellons, with some even asking whether Morgellons disease is the “Lyme disease of our time.”

I was reminded of this frustrating (for both patient and physician) phenomenon by a couple of things recently. First, Mark Crislip wrote an excellent discussion of Morgellons disease and delusional parasitosis (which, of course, appear to be basically the more or less the same thing). The second was the publication of a study in the Archives of Dermatology by a group from the Mayo Clinic entitled Delusional Infestation, Including Delusions of Parasitosis: Results of Histologic Examination of Skin Biopsy and Patient-Provided Skin Specimens. Basically, what investigators Hylwa et al did was something very obvious. They retrospectively reviewed the pathology results of patient-provided specimens and physician-ordered skin biopsies in patients with Morgellons and diagnoses akin to Morgellons. Their search strategy was as follows:

A computerized search of patients seen at Mayo Clinic’s site in Rochester, from 1996 through 2007, was performed using the following search terms: delusion of lice, delusional disorder with parasitosis, delusion(s) of parasitosis, delusional parasitosis, delusion(s) of parasitism, delusion(s) of parasites, parasitosis (delusional), delusional infestation, delusory parasitosis, psychogenic parasitosis, neurogenic parasitosis, neurotic parasitosis, Ekbom syndrome, formication and parasites, chronic tactile hallucination(s), dermatophobia, parasitophobia, toxic psychosis, tactile psychosis, monosymptomatic hypochondriacal psychosis, Morgellon(s), psychogenic dermatitis, neurotic dermatitis, neurogenic dermatitis, self-induced excoriations, and psychogenic excoriations.

From this, the authors chose cases thusly:

All patients who were seen at Mayo Clinic and whose final assessment was consistent with the criteria for diagnosis of delusional skin infestation as described by Freudenmann and Lepping12 were identified as having the disorder and were evaluated for inclusion in this study. The 2 inclusion criteria were (1) the patient’s conviction that he or she was being infested by pathogens (animate [eg, insects or worms] or inanimate [eg, fibers]) without any medical or microbiological evidence for this, ranging from overvalued ideas to a fixed, unshakable belief; and (2) the patient’s complaint of abnormal sensations in the skin explained by the first criterion. When a diagnosis was uncertain, the case was discussed between the reviewers and a final decision to include or exclude the patient was agreed between them.

The general term delusional infestation was chosen because it embraces the 2 main categories in which patients present: delusions that they are infested with animate material (such as parasites) and delusions that they are infested with inanimate material (such as fibers).

So what were the results?

Basically, out of the 80 cases of patients who underwent skin biopsy, Hylwa et al found not a single patient had objective evidence of parasite infestation on skin biopsy, although 61% did reveal dermatitis, including 33 cases of chronic dermatitis, 10 cases of subacute, and 6 cases of lichen simplex chronicus. This last diagnosis is a thickening of the skin with scaling that arises secondary to repetitive rubbing or scratching. In actuality, I’m rather surprised that only 60% of biopsies showed this result; I would have expected it to be higher. I am not surprised that the skin biopsies were in essence nondiagnostic. A number of patients had skin cultures. These, too, were all nondiagnostic, being either negative or yielding common contaminating organisms that couldn’t possibly account for the patients’ symptoms.

Also not unexpected are the results of examinations of patient-provided specimens. These were examined by dermatologists, pathologists, tropical medicine specialists, internal medicine doctors, psychiatry, or infectious disease physicians like Dr. Crislip. Most commonly, they were found to be skin flakes or serum crust, hair, or textile fibers. There were a couple of insects found among the specimens. One of them was interesting in that it was an actual parasite, specifically a pubic louse, but physical examination showed no evidence of infestation. Another patient brought in a tick, but the clinical judgment of the practitioners was that the tick could not account for the patient’s symptoms. The bottom line is that none of the patient-provided specimens resulted in any useful information other than that the patient did not have parasites. Consistent with the scientific literature on Morgellons disease, they were nothing consistent with a diagnosis of parasite infestation.

The authors point out that this is to the best of their knowledge the first study that addressed the histological analysis of skin biopsies and patient-provided specimens in a relatively large number of patients. They also note, as you would expect, that this is a retrospective study, and thus prone to all the shortcomings of retrospective studies, including the potential for incomplete information and bias. One aspect that the investigators mention that isn’t really a bug (if you’ll excuse the term) but a feature is that the patients had “disparate characteristics, with an array of presentations.” That’s pretty much the definition of Morgellons; it consists of an array of nonspecific symptoms that focus around the belief that something has infested the skin, be it parasites or some sort of inanimate contaminants, and disparate presentations would be expected. Be that as it may, the authors ended up concluding that examination of patient-provided specimens and skin biopsies showed no evidence of infestation, although they did frequently show evidence of dermatitis. Unfortunately, this is a nonspecific finding; it’s also difficult to figure out whether the dermatitis is a cause of the sensation of infestation or occurs as a result of it and the scratching and rubbing that such patients engage in. Indeed, the authors ask:

The results of this study raise many questions concerning the value of skin biopsies in the context of a patient pre- senting with delusional infestation. Given that a skin biopsy and histologic examination of specimens brought by patients do not yield evidence of infesting materials, either animate or inanimate, should a biopsy be performed? Some have proposed that an alliance with a patient is a justification for a skin biopsy, but is it? What is the outcome fol- lowing a biopsy? Did it improve the outcome of the inter- action with the patient? Were patients more likely to be compliant with therapy following a biopsy? These questions remain unanswered by this study, which concentrated on the results of skin biopsies in this situation.

It’s a difficult set of questions. This study would suggest that the diagnostic yield of doing such biopsies is incredibly low. So, what reason is there to do a skin biopsy in cases like this? If this study is to be believed, the answer is: None.

Overall, this study also provides still more evidence, as if any were needed, that patients with the constellation of symptoms consistent with Morgellons disease and/or delusional parasitosis (which appear to be more or less the same thing) rarely, if ever, have any specific findings consistent with real parasitic infestations of the skin, their belief that they are somehow infested notwithstanding. Many of them have some form of dermatitis, but it is not clear whether it is the primary explanation for their symptoms or occurs as a result of the scratching that these patients engage in. Whatever the case, I have no doubt that these patients are suffering, but the explanations proffered by advocates of Morgellons as the cause of their symptoms. Unfortunately, this study is highly unlikely to change the minds of patient advocacy groups promoting Morgellons disease as an entity, just as numerous studies failing to support the idea of chronic Lyme disease have failed to convince patient advocacy groups that chronic antibiotic therapy for the constellation of symptoms attributed to chronic Lyme disease is not a good idea. It should also be noted that delusional parasitosis existed as a distinct diagnosis before Morgellons disease, which has only come to the fore over the last decade or so.

One thing that is sure. The promotion of Morgellons disease as a distinct disease, primarily by means of Internet-fueled advocacy and old-fashioned conspiracy mongering. What these patients need is the application of science and science-based medicine to their problem, not the various quack nostrums sold to them by practitioners who are either unscrupulous or themselves share the delusion. This study adds to our knowledge by providing yet more evidence that there is rarely, if ever, a documented parasitic infestation in these patients.

REFERENCE:

Hylwa, S., Bury, J., Davis, M., Pittelkow, M., & Bostwick, J. (2011). Delusional Infestation, Including Delusions of Parasitosis: Results of Histologic Examination of Skin Biopsy and Patient-Provided Skin Specimens Archives of Dermatology DOI: 10.1001/archdermatol.2011.114

Comments

  1. #1 The Analyst
    May 25, 2011

    Now I’m genuinely interested. I googled for “CDC + cover-up” but the hits were dominated by shrieking conspiracy-theory sites and I was loath to descend into the whirlpool of madness. What are the non-factitious, now-accepted diseases that you accuse the CDC of knowing about but attempting to conceal?

    Perhaps you should have looked at the CDC’s website?

    http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

  2. #2 herr doktor bimler
    May 25, 2011

    Unless you are telling me that the CDC pretended that there is no such disease as syphilis, I can’t see the relevance to the status of Morgellons.

  3. #3 Narad
    May 25, 2011

    If this is true I need to start worrying. Bt is Bacillus thuringiensis, used commonly by home/organic gardeners to control caterpillars.

    I’m pretty sure I have a photocopy of an article from the late, pretty-crunchy Sinsemilla Tips highly touting BT around here somewhere.

  4. #4 Doc Rocketscience
    May 25, 2011

    TA, the most appalling thing about the Tuskegee Study wasn’t that it was covered up, but rather that it was done out in the open and no one cared.

    Nice try, though.

  5. #5 The Analyst
    May 25, 2011

    Unless you are telling me that the CDC pretended that there is no such disease as syphilis, I can’t see the relevance to the status of Morgellons.

    Each story has a different tale.

    Well, CFS was “mass hysteria”.

    When they realized this “mass hysteria” wasn’t going to randomly disappear, they just kept renaming it and finally gave it an acronym that does not describe the condition so psychiatrists and psychologists could beat it with their psychiatric stick. Now there are doctors that turn this legitimate condition it as a wastebasket diagnosis partly (or is it more accurate to say mostly?) because of CDC misinformation.

    AIDS was called psychological and “hysteria” , but that didn’t last long since people saw other people and their friends dying en masse. Then the folks claiming hysteria developed “AIDS hysteria” themselves. Crazy!

    But go on. Have faith and trust in the CDC. They have really shown their competence over the years.

  6. #6 Doc Rocketscience
    May 25, 2011

    TA, what I’m sayng is that Orac has already dealt with what you’re trying to pull. So that’s 2 crank gambits from you in one thread.

  7. #7 herr doktor bimler
    May 25, 2011

    AIDS was called psychological and “hysteria”
    Are you trying to be completely wrong about everything or does it come naturally?

  8. #8 herr doktor bimler
    May 25, 2011

    SRSly, Analyst, if you think that the CDC were wont to dismiss the symptoms of Karposi’s sarcoma, pneumocystis pneumonia, immunodeficiency and death as psychological and “hysteria”, then I can only conclude that you are relying over-much on whale.to as a source of information.

    IIRC, the role of the CDC in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was to investigate it after the Lake Tahoe cases, to decide that Epstein-Barr virus probably wasn’t involved, and to propose a working definition. Then they provided the Fukuda diagnostic criteria, and refuted the HTLV-II retrovirus theory. I see no conspiracy here to conceal a disease (for whatever reason).

    To suggest that the CDC tailored those diagnostic criteria “so psychiatrists and psychologists could beat [CFS] with their psychiatric stick” is again suggestive of the “whale.to” theory.

  9. #9 PatchUp
    May 25, 2011

    Oh ANALyst, you keep bringing the laughs. GRIDS was never thought to be psychological, not at any point in it’s history. CFS *is* a psych disorder, if it wasn’t then woo scams like the Lightning Process wouldn’t ‘cure’ it. It’s just like Morg, pure somatisation, but just like the CFS/ME/fibro brigade, you’re so invested in your ableist rhetoric against people with mental illnesses that you cannot accept that your problem is psychiatric in origin too, can’t be bn established psych condition that’s easily treated, no it must be a government conspiracy or rogue nanobots.

    Please stop regurgitating the “X was considered psychological until it wasn’t!” nonsense that you’ve picked up from your morgieboards, because it just isn’t true. This is a place of science, where citations are needed, where you can’t just claim something like “So the guy who discovered AIDS says Morgellons Is real” and get away with it.

  10. #10 TBruce
    May 25, 2011

    AIDS was called psychological and “hysteria” , but that didn’t last long since people saw other people and their friends dying en masse. Then the folks claiming hysteria developed “AIDS hysteria” themselves. Crazy!

    Yes, you are.

  11. #11 The Analyst
    May 25, 2011

    SRSly, Analyst, if you think that the CDC were wont to dismiss the symptoms of Karposi’s sarcoma, pneumocystis pneumonia, immunodeficiency and death as psychological and “hysteria”, then I can only conclude that you are relying over-much on whale.to as a source of information.

    I don’t even know what whale.to is. I typed it in my search bar, and I guess it’s a website.

    The fact is, the CDC could not cover up AIDS even if they wanted to. Even people who bought into the early media blasts realized how real it was once their friends started dying.

    If AIDS didn’t kill people, and people weren’t afraid of the disease killing them as well, you would have not seen such a quick response from the science community.

    And the CDC has done nothing good for CFS, but I guess we can be glad that the state of affairs is not as bad as the UK NHS.

    And no, the CDC initially dismissed CDC as “mass hysteria” after the Tahoe outbreak, and the doctors that diagnosed this “yuppie flu” were called quacks.

    Considering the CDC ignored biological evidence from doctors and experts who dealt with the condition. They were told there was not a single biomarker that could definitively diagnosis a case CFS, and they twisted that information it into this (which is still on their website):

    There’s no diagnostic laboratory test or biomarker for CFS.

    This is intentionally misleading. But I guess they are right. There are no biomarkers. There are many biomarkers. Based on the information they have/had, you don’t think this is misleading by any means?

    At least Japan got it right in 1987. They recognized the low natural killer cells biomarkers, and called it Low Natural Killer Syndrome (LNKS). But what did we do here? We said, meh, that’s probably another disease not related to ME/CFS.

    Case in point: If you don’t think the CDC intentionally spreads misinformaton and pulling a Tuskegee is a thing of the past and nothing like it will never happen again (wishful thinking), you must at least agree that they have proved their incompetency over the years. No?

  12. #12 The Analyst
    May 25, 2011

    Excuse my couple typos. In one of them, I said:

    There are no biomarkers. There are many biomarkers.

    What I meant to say was:

    There is no single biomarker. There are many.

  13. #13 JayK
    May 25, 2011

    @TA: A DOI/PMID would have been more valuable than a correction.

  14. #14 Carlton
    May 25, 2011

    Hi everyone

    Emotionally too invested. I think everyone here on both sides of the coin are to Emotionally invested. So that is not a good reason to excuse someones ventings on the subject. I am not afraid of mental illness. I wish it were mental illness so I could get well. I know 1 person who is very mentally ill on heavy perscription meds and still has this along with the varity of folks owning this disease. Maybe Hyper Toxcity is the real term we should be using. I lean that way, but see that Morgellons also is real and believe Hyper Toxicity leads to Morgellons. I agree we would get a tiny bit further then others by never using the Morgellons route, but watching others most on other forums talk like they avoid using those words and still get no help.

    The only times the majority of them use terms like Morgellons is when they are researching on line and come across article like this or in the forums themselves for support. For those who report this or that causes Morgellons. Well it does add and help bring about the disease. What has not been discovered is what actually happens to cause the illness to completely happen. They do know some of the begaining stages. Like the Chronic fatigue along with intestinal problems along with different other syptoms. Long syptom list so each infected person has some to all depending.

    Once a person detox/Methalation pathways break down enough to stop detoxing every day chemicals that a normal body handles. Thats when all the trouble starts. What makes the Methalation pathway break down?? Just my opinion but for me I see it being like a allergy. Some people are more prone to allergies yet every living being can at some point become a sufferer of allergies. So enough pollutions in our air, water, food will cause some people to break down quicker. So yes we all are in trouble and exposed and cleaning things up would be wise, but that does not mean you will ever get this aweful disease. But just because your body will resist does not mean it has its work cut out and should be ignored while the situation gets worse bringing down others around you.

    Also there is enough pollutions now to make more and more peoples systems break down opening the door for uncommen disease. Delusional diagnosis has been used frivously for other disease. Delusions of Paristosis is a rare disorder. Way to many are reporting this diagnosis and acutally believe it a wroung diagnosis. Are there a few in there that really are delusional. Maybe or probably. But rarely just as the disorder is rare. There are vetenarians who are seeing this in peoples pets. Maybe a reader who knows about this could post some links. If I remember right over 19,000 people who have been diagnosed and delusional parisitosis are registerd with the CDC in the US for Morgellons. Thats too many for a rare disorder. If I remember there really is over 26,ooo. The news was saying around 19,000 but the CDC site might have a higher number. Have to go check that all out now to refresh my memory.

    When comparing research those who have tested their patients. They do have alot in common. They have no intestinal flori, they all test positive for heavy metal toxcity, and all share in common a toxic levels of bateria and fungus. I know I am missing some of the shared finding here. Off the top of my head is what I am putting here.

    I do agree with those that it is not one man made disater that is causing the disease of Hyper Toxicity. I firmly believe its layers of junk in our enviroment that is causing more and more problem in folks and its opened the door for Hyper Toxicity to take place in large numbers and leading to Morgellons.

    Also though when folks who voleenteered to clean up the oil spill and are now producing the leasons and symptoms of the Hyper Toxicity prooves large doses of pollutants can make one ill with this fast. Do they have Morgellons. Probably not. Do they have the Hyper toxicity that we had when we first became ill. Probably. Wish they could get those folks to be in the study for better comparison.

    (Just ran across another Trisha Springstead web page in which she announces that the cause of Morgellons is Bt sprayed from planes.)

    DBeacon I tried to find your article. I did find a post saying it could be the cause of many problems and she posted someone else article backed by fact on what they wrote. I did not see anywhare saying that she claims it causes Morgellons. Could you please link me to the article you read. I do know that researchers have found that people who can not detox probably have toxic levels of the Bt sprayed from planes. That does not mean it caused the disease, but a componant to help things produce the disease along with the Hyper Toxicity and what ever else one gains when ill with this. Some it is Lymes, some it is Cancer, and or tumors. Alot of us start producing fatty tumors and had no trouble with those before until comming down with sypmtoms for the Hyper Toxicity.

    For me personnally I was the type that never got sick. Always had an endless supply of energy. Frustrating because no one could keep up with me. I had a cast iron stomic and could eat anything. I would catch a slight cold once every 2 to 4 years. rarely got the flue, but when I did it usually only lasted a couple of days. Then over a six year period all that changed. Chronic fatigue along with intestinal problems along with colds and flues. Within a few years of going down hill with that I started gets white spots and freckles havily on the skin along with fatty tummors and slow healing sores. Even my office surgery for the tummors took a year to heal. I rarely go to the Doctor. I hate it. So was even less endeared once I did go to Dr.s for the first outbreak of some sort of bug which was about six or more years when symptoms started. I had no clue what it was but knew I could pick them off the body and put them into zip locks and then to the doctor. He thought it was one thing and treated me for Scabies two times which worked while using, but then came back worse after each treatment. Thats when I hit the net looking for my own answers. Still then thought it was just a bug but thought the Doc was not treating for the right one. I even considered a parisite. I also looked into high blood pressure syptoms and other nerve effecting disease as each thing I research came to the conclusion as not being the right one. Durring that research time the Doc gave up and diagnoses me as Delusions of Paristosis. After researching that I knew that was not it. I have been researching for two years before comming to some very slow descisions on what is going on.

    What I did do was at all the forums found with same sypmtoms; the person whos sypmtoms and situation closly resembled mine and made sure they were completly well and started fallowing their path to recovery. So far that is working. Not completely well yet, but a long way from the hell it use to be. I really believe I will get the rest of the way well and that my left over bit to concur(sp) is the broken down Methalation pathway.

  15. #15 herr doktor bimler
    May 25, 2011

    The Analyst, obviously I don’t agree with your comments, but I do appreciate the fact that you are replying to queries. Thank you for that.

  16. #16 Antaeus Feldspar
    May 25, 2011

    The fact is, the CDC could not cover up AIDS even if they wanted to. Even people who bought into the early media blasts realized how real it was once their friends started dying.

    Then it seems that AIDS is nothing more than a red herring you’re dragging across the trail, to obscure the fact that the claim you said you could back up, of the CDC ‘covering up’ diseases, you can’t in fact back up at all.

    “That guy! He’s so dumb! He’s so dumb, you should hear what he answered when someone asked him what two plus two was! He answered five!!”

    “Uh, no, he didn’t. I was there when he was asked that question, and he didn’t say five. He said four, very clearly.”

    “Pffft. Like he actually should be praised for getting such an obvious question right? I mean, who doesn’t know the answer to two plus two??”

    If you can back up your claim, then go ahead and back it up. Don’t pretend you can back it up and then change the subject, hoping no one will notice. You’ll only embarrass yourself that way.

  17. #17 Dangerous Bacon
    May 25, 2011

    Got another line on the government’s Morgellons conspiracy today.

    I found a product being sold in a garden center (ostensibly for promoting beneficial soil microbiology) that according to the label contains 8 million colony-forming units of Bt per ml!
    That’s 320 million CFUs per bottle!! The government doesn’t have to spray it from planes, it has America’s gardeners doing its dirty work!!!

    We are unwitting pawns in this epidemic!!!

  18. #18 misty
    June 19, 2011

    Dear All,

    Either something called Morgellons Syndrome exists objectively or it does not. If it does, and if it is a new clinical epiphenomenon, and is one that causes a great deal of suffering, and which furthermore seems to be spreading throughout the world, it matters.

    If, as is hypothesised by some, it is the result of a laboratory experiment, (C3 level or above), being accidentally released into the environment, it matters.

    If it is a slow growing infection (comprised of cloned bacteria and protozoa, inter alia), it matters. Apparently, it is only after some years, (absent therapeutic intervention),that myiasis may be visible.

    According to one scientist and doctor, the fibers attach themselves and grow along the peripheral nerves, (initially).

    Certainly, there would seem to be a preponderance of bizzare cranial nerve disruption reported. Itch is the least of the problems, in some ways.

    Look, you medics enjoy, (and deserve), what the classical philosophers would term eudaimonia. You’ve just eaten a good dinner, drank some first class wine, all manner of thing are and shall be well.

    Please remember why, as a child, you decided to go into medicine. Medical school was hard. You may still dream that you failed. You passed. Please do not fail the sick whose illness cannot be elicited by normal tests.

    Check the skin and scalp out for chitin. You would need the substance and the uv light.

    PCR for the protozoa.

    Antibiotics often apparently help in the suppression.

    If you do not help, charlatans will manufacture and prescribe possibly deadly potions.

    Lymebusters may have given you a sore head.

    Check out what is happening on Morgellons Disease Research, and weep bitter tears.

  19. #19 Narad
    June 19, 2011

    Either something called Morgellons Syndrome exists objectively or it does not. If it does, and if it is a new clinical epiphenomenon, and is one that causes a great deal of suffering, and which furthermore seems to be spreading throughout the world, it matters.

    Tony has a girlfriend?

  20. #20 novalox
    June 19, 2011

    @misty

    Citations for your assertions, please.

    Also, necromancy much?

  21. #21 Misty
    June 20, 2011

    Dear Narad and novalox, and All,

    Someone by the name of Gordon Stamp is quite openly advertising the unlicensed manufacturing and prescribing of a potion. It is sold in powder form, reconstituted by water.

    Morgellons Disease Research site.

    Someone called ‘Posey’ is applying this to her skin, and she says he (Gordon)lost his nursing license in 2009, in MN. The record of the nursing board is on the internet.

    This potion costs $200 a pound. One pound of the powder lasts 3 months.

    Apparently 300 desperate individuals are buying the powder.

    Hitherto, Gordon has refused to state the ingredients.

    Posey now (very recently) states it is made up of ‘enzymes’.

    Check out the totality of what Vitaly Citovsky (Professor at Stony Brook University, New York), states he found in the lesions of such patients, (over and above the agrobacterium elicited by PCR).

    Check out what Cliff Mickelson and attendant scientist openly declared, (but warned sufferers not to apply), would dissolve the callus. This is a rock hard substance, mimicking human skin, underneath which the fibers and insect life grows. (This is all honestly true). As doctors, you could ‘feel’ the hard skin. Please be careful not to ‘catch’ this condition.

    For the moment, think just what this powder may be. It is having ‘amazing’ effects on the skin. I consider it to be highly dangerous.

    I am from a medical family.

    I have usually found surgeons decisive and intelligent, and quick to act.

    I have furthermore met both physicians and surgeons who are willing to believe that the highly unlikely may in fact perhaps be true.

    The springtails have been found, (among other things), by Professor Omar Amin. He attributes the aetiology to dental work, although he may be partially wrong about that. He calls this de novo condition neurocutaneous syndrome, and started writing about it circa 2000.

    Those sick with this condition seem to think buying the aforementioned powder is a logical step because the doctors refuse to help.

    I do not think it is logical because, although the torment is dreadful, a person will not die from it.

    Although, one of Omar Amin’s patients did die, but he was rescued from a homeless and vagrant condition.

    It matters if this condition is contagious.

    One surgeon, so desperate because his wife has ‘lesions’ openly contacted a site in which a scientist (apparently) engaged in whistleblowing about the lab.

    Actually, I do not see what else would explain it. If true, it is not going to go away.

    Please, grasp the nettle, and really examine the patients with the objective tests that will elicit the problem.

    Any other action will mean that chaos is come again.

    Thanks for the opportunity to share my side of things.

  22. #22 Joe Keleher
    August 19, 2011

    I am one among few who have recovered from the Morgellons Symptoms (see http://members.cox.net/llyee2/NCS_article_by_joe.pdf. ). One thing is for certain. If you had these symptoms you would not be calling it delusional. It is more horrific than any Steven King novel and sickening that anyone would take pokes at those still suffering. Of the sufferers I have communicated with, over half have considered suicide. In reviewing the historic documentation of this symptoms set, there appears to be connections to mercury exposure. I believe the cause and progression of symptoms is due to the presence of internal chemistry (such as dental adhesive documented in connection to these symptoms by Dr. Omar Amin- 2001 through present as well as meth, cocaine and other agents) causing a change from inorganic mercury (such as found in amalgam fillings) to organic mercury; organic can and does move beyond the blood/brain barrier while inorganic does not. The increase of mercury in the CNS may cause these symptoms. Mercury in the CNS of a mother is passed to the unborn at levels of 5 to 10 times the rate (and no doubt the reason the earliest cases in Languedoc region of France document it as a condition found in children and newborn).The overlap between symptoms of Morgellons, meth addicts, and medicinal mercury (documented pre-1940)is undeniable. People sick with this are truly sick. Let’s try to help by finding answers instead of adding to the confusion. Hopeful, Joe Keleher

  23. #23 herr doktor bimler
    August 19, 2011

    The overlap between symptoms of Morgellons, meth addicts, and medicinal mercury (documented pre-1940)is undeniable

    And yet I deny it!

  24. #24 Antaeus Feldspar
    August 20, 2011

    One thing is for certain. If you had these symptoms you would not be calling it delusional.

    Which proves nothing, however. A person who is having delusions does not recognize them as delusions, practically by definition.

    As for the connection between Morgellons and those often experienced by addicts of meth, cocaine, etc., delusional parasitosis is a well-known symptom of such addictions (the famous “cocaine bugs.”) Calling attention to the undeniable similarities between the symptoms of Morgellons and those of a population prone to delusional parasitosis doesn’t do much to rebut the mainstream view that Morgellons is delusional parasitosis.

  25. #25 ryan dacosse
    September 1, 2011

    Your an over educated asshole who just like to here himself talk. howe can you state these OPINIONS so matter of fact? have you ever met someone with morgellons.. looked them in the eye? studdied whats coming out under a microscope? People like you make it seem hopeless. Fuck you.

  26. #27 W. Kevin Vicklund
    September 7, 2011

    For those that want the summary of Joe’s link, it’s the usual misunderstanding of what the “Delusion” in Delusion of Parasitosis is referring to (hint: the symptoms are real, the supposed cause is the delusion). Nothing new.

  27. #28 Andrew
    September 7, 2011

    Rest assured, Ryan, that no one will ever accuse you of being over-educated. If you cared about people suffering from “Morgellons” you’d try to keep them from being defrauded by scam artists and quacks.

  28. #29 Loretta
    September 16, 2011

    I see your site meter below Wow! the subject of Morgellons seems to be very popular. But after scanning your site, I’ve decided you don’t know what you are talking about. My sister has Morgellons and it has made her life a living HELL. I can think of a disease that was dismissed before, AIDS. Or how about the testing of syphilis on our men or the testing of nuclear weapons with our soldiers at ground zero so they would know the effects on them. Or microbes to eat oil (Oh look, something new out of the depths of the Gulf of Mexico. Scientist didn’t know this existed either, do they tell the microbes “you are a delusion”.) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38834330/ns/disaster_in_the_gulf/t/new-microbe-discovered-eating-gulf-oil-spill/
    You can’t tell me that all things have been discovered and that what we think we know is all there is to know.
    People use to think the earth was flat too. Just saying until someone actually researches this with an open mind, it is your delusion that it don’t exist. There are so many things we don’t even know about. How can you tell all these people it is just in their heads? I certainly hope you or your loved ones never go thru this. I don’t know what it is from but I do know my sister is not delusional.

  29. #30 Anton P. Nym
    September 16, 2011

    “People use to think the earth was flat too.”

    No, they didn’t… not since the days of Ancient Greece, anyway.

    “How can you tell all these people it is just in their heads?”

    We’re not. The symptoms are real… it’s the supposed cause that’s the delusion, just as there aren’t really spiders crawling under an addict’s skin. (Not that “Morgellons” suffers are suffering withdrawal… they’re just, if “just” isn’t too much an understatement, experiencing a similar malfunction in their nerves and are similarly looking for an external cause. The supposed parasites discovered all seem to be nylon fibres or similar textile remnants when studied by most experts.)

    I’d also object that plenty of open-minded people *have* taken a look and seen no cryptozootic parasites on sufferers… and I think some of them would justifiably take offense at being deemed closed-minded.

    — Steve

  30. #31 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    September 16, 2011

    Loretta,

    Please go back and re-read. I don’t think anyone has argued that your sister does not have physical symptoms. I don’t think anyone has argued that her symptoms may not be severe. However, there is negligible evidence that Morgellons is caused by an actual parasite infestation and significant evidence that there are no parasites present. Someone who tells you otherwise either a) has information that needs to be shared widely; b) is lying; or c) is deluded.

    If you have reliable evidence on the cause of Morgellons please share.

  31. #32 Narad
    September 16, 2011

    I don’t know what it is from but I do know my sister is not delusional.

    Your sister doesn’t happen to look exactly the same as you do and always wear your clothes, does she?

  32. #33 TBruce
    September 16, 2011

    Microbiologists and pathologists have been waiting for identification of the “Morgellons parasite”. I suspect that we will have a very long wait.

  33. #34 herbi
    September 16, 2011

    so do 2 year old suffer from delusions then? I guess so as that seems to be the first reported case of a 2 year growing fibers under the babies skin.

    i’m not privy to alot of the conjecture online but i just read an article about these subcutaneous fibers being resistant to heat to 1800 degrees and do not melt. I don’t know of any clothing fiber resitant to that high of a temperature. these fibers are also found internally. perhaps some how mutated or the body replicated them in the organs. (this was from a case I read online from a 57 year old lady.. fibers removed from her body withstood heat to 1800degrees and also removed from internal organs).

    I’m not a medical professional. maybe i read it wrong. but to me, i believe it. i do not thinkm its a delusion. it seems way to man made. it seems very similar to star jelly. (this jelly that rained from the sky in the late 80s and still today). yea i know, it sounds crazy but it happened.. these star jellies are made up of cellulose and other organic material. they also found fibers that coincidentally look exactly like some of these fibers from Morgellons under a microscope.

    who knows tho. people are suffering. that’s all i care about. I will never ever tell someone its all in their heads. i know the article is not saying they are crazy but some delusion is creating these lesions. yea its possible but i find it hard to believe that a 2 year old can manifest these symptoms? also the people who suffer from it seem normal and mentally sound. who knows though.

    man has done some great things. but we’ve done some awful things. everything man has done has come at a cost of something.. even the most beautiful things man has created has had some form of negative impact in some way.

    like Lyme disease mysteriously appeared out of no where in the early 80s across from Plum Island on the long Island sound in CT. I too feel that Morgellons is man made too. It is way too coincidental that a Nazi scientist working at plum island in the 1960s using ticks to develop bio weapons to transmit disease – and for lyme disease to all of a sudden appear a decade later just across the long island sound to where this “weapon” was created. to have people growing these polyethelene silicon fibers sounds all too man made to me!

    furthermore time and time again these fibers have been tested and still can not determine what the cause of them are. so all of a sudden the people who suffer from this delusion, also only where red, black or blue clothing? b/c as you state its the clothing fibers that enter the lesion and skin grows around and over it. this doesn’t make sense that the only fibers you typically see are of these colors. yea black and blue are common clothing colors but then we should also see ALL colors of clothing in these fibers. and aagain, clothing fibers will burn. these fibers are silcone or polyethelene resistant to temperatures above 1800 degrees!

    now maybe some of these cases are delusions. but I think most are a clear sign of a new disease unknown to man. who knows, maybe all the additives we add to our food, all the chemicals and preservatives used our body now tries to grow them itself. maybe our dna has changed with all the chemicals we encounter day in and day out..

  34. #35 Joe Keleher
    September 17, 2011

    “For those that want the summary of Joe’s link, it’s the usual misunderstanding of what the “Delusion” in Delusion of Parasitosis is referring to (hint: the symptoms are real, the supposed cause is the delusion). Nothing new.”

    Kevin, You seem to know much about something, but I’m not quite certain what that something is. It certainly isn’t the article I wrote “Rethinking DOP”. I understand what the delusion in DOP stands for. As I believe the cause of Morgellons Symptoms relates to toxicity, I certainly don’t present, “the supposed cause is the delusion”.

    You’re welcome to interpret more of what I’ve written on the subject of Morgellons Disease at: http://members.cox.net/llyee2/NCS_article_by_joe.pdf (my personal acct of having symptom and recovery) or http://morgellonspgpr.wordpress.com/category/joseph-keleher/ (several pieces I’ve written including DOP related) or visit my blog: morgellonsjoe.blogspot.com (hoping to assist those who believe Morgellons is associated with toxicity).

    Thanks, Joe

  35. #36 Patrice
    December 11, 2011

    I have this problem for 3 years and half, after 3 years of research, I assume it’s Lyme with babesiosis and chlamedya pneumonia, if there is additionnal parasite it’s because of lyme disease. What help me the most is salt and vit C & D. Salt doesn’t cure a DOP so those who think it’s DOP are really wrong or they approuve that this problem has been elaborated in a laboratory.

  36. #37 Prometheus
    December 11, 2011

    Patrice (#236):

    “What help [sic] me the most is salt and vit C & D. Salt doesn’t cure a DOP [delusion of parisitosis] so those who think it’s DOP are really wrong or they approuve [sic] that this problem has been elaborated in a laboratory [???].” [emphasis added]

    The first thing that came to me when I read this passage was “placebo”. Does anyone doubt that a placebo (like salt and a few vitamins) would “treat” a misinterpretation of physical symptoms?

    Prometheus

  37. #38 erika dahlgren
    December 17, 2011

    Always the same story when a new disease is found. Did´t the doctors think that ADHD also was something just made up or a psychological illness?

    All i can say is that my mother who have lived with this morgellon disease for 10 years is not insane…this is a real problem and where it comes from? Maby from chemitrail.

    /Sweden

  38. #39 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    December 17, 2011

    erika dahlgren – I don’t doubt your mother experiences symptoms. If you have some sort of evidence showing that the cause is parasitic, chemical, or what have you, please share.

  39. #40 Prometheus
    December 17, 2011

    Erika Dahlgren (#238):

    “…this is a real problem and where it comes from? Maby from chemitrail.”

    A perfect example of Poe’s Law – or maybe someone who’s trying to spoof the Morgellons disease proponents. Or it could be an example of crank magnetism – people who are gullible enough to believe in “chemtrails” shouldn’t have any difficulty believing in Morgellons.

    Prometheus

  40. #41 Kit
    January 9, 2012

    i have morgellon’s. Until you have this .. you have no clue of the pain associated with the daily struggle. The skin condition doesn’t come from itching. The sores come 1st from the bites more like open wounds then the itching is secondary. Blood stains on my clothes from the bites not from the itching. Long hairs tiny hairs that aren’t yours placed where eyelashes fall out where your hairs fall out on your head or any other place on your body. Find it hysterical that dr.’s always say it’s psychological when they can’t figure it out. Just say “we don’t know” Anybody who knows of this disease knows it’s not a parasite it’s an systematic autoimmune disease & the sores are just a symptom there are over 100’s of diff symptoms. How can a study be done on just the skin when nothing else was brought into the mix? Nurses, Lawyers, even other Dr’s who have this disease all of the sudden just like that became DOP right? How is it entire families get it at the same time? People who are respected in their professions who then can’t function from the many other symptoms. There aren’t parasites there are fibers. Just because it’s newly discovered & you don’t have to live with it doesn’t mean it’s not real…. it just means “you don’t know”

  41. #42 Kit
    January 9, 2012

    i have morgellon’s. Until you have this .. you have no clue of the pain associated with the daily struggle. The skin condition doesn’t come from itching. The sores come 1st from the bites more like open wounds then the itching is secondary. Blood stains on my clothes from the bites not from the itching. Long hairs tiny hairs that aren’t yours placed where eyelashes fall out where your hairs fall out on your head or any other place on your body. Find it hysterical that dr.’s always say it’s psychological when they can’t figure it out. Just say “we don’t know” Anybody who knows of this disease knows it’s not a parasite it’s an systematic autoimmune disease & the sores are just a symptom there are over 100’s of diff symptoms. How can a study be done on just the skin when nothing else was brought into the mix? Nurses, Lawyers, even other Dr’s who have this disease all of the sudden just like that became DOP right? How is it entire families get it at the same time? People who are respected in their professions who then can’t function from the many other symptoms. There aren’t parasites there are fibers. Just because it’s newly discovered & you don’t have to live with it doesn’t mean it’s not real…. it just means “you don’t know”

  42. #43 Kit
    January 9, 2012

    Ummm check this out I stand corrected apparently there IS an actual parasite they have identified one Morgellon’s parasite found … seems it’s beyond what a typical microscope could actually view… go figure!
    http://morgellonsresearchgroup.com/significant-finding-update/ think you need to apologize to those whom you said were DOP….afterall now your theory is blown out of the water! Thank goodness for people who actually look to find an answer rather than those trying to disprove what actually exists….

  43. #44 Antaeus Feldspar
    January 9, 2012

    Kit, even if the evidence at that page was exactly as portrayed on the page (not something we can take for granted) and even if the “organism” there was indeed a previously unknown parasite (not something we can assume) … it wouldn’t mean that there were no cases of delusional parasitosis. I know, I know, it’s not what you want to hear, but it’s still there.

  44. #45 Narad
    January 9, 2012

    seems it’s beyond what a typical microscope could actually view… go figure!

    150x doesn’t exactly seem to be beyond the capabilities of a typical microscope. Go figure.

  45. #46 ArtK
    January 9, 2012

    Considering that the poster at that link was looking for “… a connection with “fallout” from the aerial persistent contrails, by then being called Chemtrails”, we probably need to take the rest of the content with a grain of salt — while wearing our tinfoil hats.

    The “cocoon” looks like lint to me.

  46. #47 W. Kevin Vicklund
    January 9, 2012

    Yep, looks like lint as seen under a normal microscope.

  47. #48 Science Mom
    January 9, 2012

    Ummm check this out I stand corrected apparently there IS an actual parasite they have identified one Morgellon’s parasite found … seems it’s beyond what a typical microscope could actually view… go figure!

    That’s what my children use for a play microscope…go figure!

  48. #49 TBruce
    January 9, 2012

    I’m not impressed by this “parasite”. The fibers look like they came from fabric i.e. lint. The “parasite” looks to me like a seed. There is a vague resemblance to a larval arthropod, but there isn’t the segmentation I would expect. So which is more likely, an animal anatomically unique and not known to science, or a tiny seed caught up in a ball of lint?

  49. #50 LW
    January 9, 2012

    Kit, paragraphs are your friend. It’s hard to read a wall of text like that. But here are some comments on your comment @244:

    The skin condition doesn’t come from itching. The sores come 1st from the bites more like open wounds then the itching is secondary. Blood stains on my clothes from the bites not from the itching.

    So, this is a true parasite situation; something is actually biting you severely enough to draw blood. 

    Long hairs tiny hairs that aren’t yours placed where eyelashes fall out where your hairs fall out on your head or any other place on your body.

    Punctuation is also your friend. I’m not entirely certain what this series of words means, except maybe that your own hair and eyelashes fall out but in examining the fallen hairs, you find additional hairs, some long and some “tiny” that don’t belong to you.

    Kit, please think seriously about this. Is it your contention that the parasites that bite you have long hair?  Because any parasite big enough to have long hair is definitely big enough to see.
       

    Find it hysterical that dr.’s always say it’s psychological when they can’t figure it out. Just say “we don’t know”

    If you tell a doctor that you have parasites big enough to have long hair and to produce bites like “open wounds”, but which are invisible to the naked eye … do you not see why a doctor would doubt the existence of these parasites?
     

    Anybody who knows of this disease knows it’s not a parasite it’s an systematic autoimmune disease & the sores are just a symptom there are over 100’s of diff symptoms. How can a study be done on just the skin when nothing else was brought into the mix?

    But — wait — how can an autoimmune disease produce bites?  Or long hairs?  If you tell a doctor first about the bites and long hairs, and then about your autoimmune disease, do you not see that the doctor is going to doubt your interpretation of your symptoms? 

    Nurses, Lawyers, even other Dr’s who have this disease all of the sudden just like that became DOP right? How is it entire families get it at the same time?

    How could they all of a sudden develop an autoimmune disease?  So far as I know, delusions are more contagious than autoimmune diseases.

    There aren’t parasites there are fibers.

    Do the fibers bite?  Do they turn into long hairs?  Are they generated by the body as part of the autoimmune response?  What is their connection to the bites, long hairs, and autoimmune disease?

    Please, Kit, look at your own statements and try to put them together. Because I can’t.

  50. #51 evilDoug
    January 9, 2012

    Ooooh! Woo with pikshurs!
    I think that specimen is Detrius umbilicus.

    I guess Larry got to “process” the sample because he has a microscope. Now I admit that my stereo ‘scope has a max mag of only 60, but I have lenses for up to 1500x for my compound microscope. Maybe I should volunteer. Maybe he should have included some RBCs to give Kit a sense of scale.

    That thing certainly looks like a seed to me. The left end in the first image looks a lot like a hilum (“scar” from a seed stalk).
    Everything else looks like ordinary textile fibres of assorted types, and of colors unknown in nature.
    There’s a red one
    And a blue one
    And a green one
    And a yellow one …
    Note what look like yarns (threads) of a fabric in the background of the first image.

    I would expect any sort of “cocoon” to show much greater ordering than the ball of fluff. Larry notes that it fluoresces under long-wave UV – totally consistent with textile fibres with fluorescent brightening agents (“optical brighteners”) found in almost all laundry detergents. He would know about that – wouldn’t he? His comment about it look looking like “A tangle of miniature monofilament fishing line” is about the only thing he says that actually sounds reasonable. I’m guessing a little wad of synthetic fibres – probably polyester.

    Larry, ya got a couple of choices: Embed the whole lot and section it for a closer look, or pick out the fibres one by one and analyze them. If you can’t analyze the fibres, send them off to a good forensic science lab, where fibre ident is a common thing to do. I’d definitely section the big thingy, after doing some very careful external examination. You never know – it might have little tiny titanium intestines.

    If Larry is typical of those in the Morgellons Research Group, I won’t be holding my breath awaiting the Grand Revelation.

  51. #52 Calli Arcale
    January 9, 2012

    And even if it *were* an actual bug (though I agree it looks more plantlike to me), how would finding it show that it causes *any* cases of Morgellons? Do you have any idea how many arthropods are living on your body right at this very moment under totally normal conditions, non-pathologically? Seriously. Demodex folliculorum lives on people under normal circumstances, and typically is not pathologic; it’s what’s called a commensal parasite, meaning it has to live on us to survive but it doesn’t do us any harm (normally; there are exceptions). I’d be shocked if no arthropods were ever discovered on a Morgellons sufferer. The question is whether there’s any evidence they’re doing anything harmful to the patient. Same with the fibers. Do you have any idea how hugely common it is to find fibers on any arbitrary part of a human being? Cloth is such a gigantic part of our immediate environment; it would be more surprising to *not* find fibers than it would be to find them. There’s a reason fiber evidence is so important in so many forensic investigations. So to convince anyone that Morgellons produces fibers, you have to do more than show us a picture of fibers — you have to demonstrate that they cause Morgellons or are produced by the condition, rather than being something that’s stuck on everybody but which you’re only noticing on the people where you’re looking for it — Morgellon’s patients.

  52. #53 Narad
    January 10, 2012

    I’m not entirely certain what this series of words means, except maybe that your own hair and eyelashes fall out but in examining the fallen hairs, you find additional hairs, some long and some “tiny” that don’t belong to you.

    I more read it to suggest that the “morgies” actually replace normal hair.

  53. #54 LW
    January 10, 2012

    “the ‘morgies’ actually replace normal hair”

    Hmm, I guess so. But if it grows on you, then it’s your hair, I’d think. If it looks different from other hair … well, frankly, I know a fair number of people who have found that their hairs slowly fell out and were replaced — if at all — by hair that was different in color and texture from the original. It’s a recognized part of aging. Hairs that fall out due to illness may be replaced with hair of a different color and texture as well.

    The only way you could really prove that long hair that grows on you isn’t really yours would be to show that it isn’t really hair, having a different microscopic structure or something. I’ve never seen a Morgellons sufferer even claim to have that kind of proof.

    But there’s still a problem of consistency: if Morgellons is the result of parasite infestation, or an autoimmune disease, how does it cause you to grow long hair that isn’t yours?

  54. #55 Tanya
    February 16, 2012

    Hey Kit, I see you’ve met the vultures. I’m a fellow Morgy, although fortunately I don’t get the skin symptoms like you do. Lots of fibers and a bit of itching when I’m due for a bath, but my main issues are with fatigue and chronic pain. I’m managing pretty well, showing steady improvement and I’m soon going to make a video or write an article about everything I’m doing to mitigate the symptoms. Should be up on my blog in the next couple of weeks, which you can access by clicking my name.

    Apparently Orac is obsessed with the notion that Morgellons is a delusion, as he posted another entry, same title as this article but with (2012 edition) tacked onto the end. Google it and check out the comment section. The way I was treated by the commenters here (one of whom has a PhD and is an associate Dean of a university, but still wasn’t bright enough to pick on a Morgellons sufferer anonymously!) inspired me to make a video “MorgVlog #1: PLEASE! Show Some Compassion Toward Morgellons Sufferer’s!” it’s up on YouTube now and I’ll also be posting it on my blog. Hope you’ll check it out. Good luck and steer clear of the dingdong squad whose hangout appears to be the comments section on scienceblogs!

  55. #56 Gray Falcon
    February 16, 2012

    Tanya, you made claims that Morgellons is caused by nanites inside of everybody’s body, placed there by some nebulous global conspiracy, and as evidence, offered a video of your finger. We can offer compassion, but we’re not going to believe everything you say.

  56. #57 Lawrence
    February 16, 2012

    Once again, there aren’t enough people in positions of power to work full time on all of these various international conspiracies – probably why we don’t get good ones anymore, they are all half-assing it, because of their committments to the Bildeburgers, Illuminati, NWO, other branches of the Masons, the Zionists, etc, etc, etc….

    Who can possibly keep them all straight.

  57. #58 Tanya
    February 16, 2012

    @Gray Falcon Seems some of you on here are awfully slow on the uptake. Maybe the Morgellons is getting to you, too?

    It’s not the fact that you don’t agree with everything I have to say, which I’ve actually explained several times, it is the lack of compassion toward the mentally ill, or people you claim to believe are mentally ill, that I take issue with. As I have stated before, not all Morgellons sufferers believe, like I do, that Morgellons is the product of manmade nanotech, but we are all being treated this way.

    If Kit shares my views on the origin of Morgellons, she certainly never mentions it here. What I see is a gang of heartless know-it-alls trying to make an individual who is clearly in a lot of pain (whether or not the source of the pain is psychological) feel stupid. I see no empathy or respect, and it’s disgusting!

    Again, watch my video “MorgVlog #1: PLEASE! Show Some Compassion Toward Morgellons Sufferer’s!”. I explain very clearly that I don’t expect everyone to blindly accept everything I say, in fact, that’s the last thing I want! To my knowledge, Victoria, who I mention in that video, doesn’t think Morgellons is nano, either.

  58. #59 Gray Falcon
    February 16, 2012

    Tanya, you accuse everyone who asks you for evidence of either being deluded or part of the conspiracy. Don’t demand compassion when you have no kindness to give.

  59. #60 Beware
    February 16, 2012

    Kit: Watch out for slick Youtube videos from supposed Morgellons sufferers; they’re likely to be propaganda created by the government (the government takes down all the videos that tell the truth).

  60. #61 Narad
    February 16, 2012

    Seems some of you on here are awfully slow on the uptake.

    “Slow on the uptake”? You’re the one pretending to have a conversation with a five-week-old comment.

  61. #62 Tanya
    February 16, 2012

    Gray Falcon, Other than to ask alison whether she was trying to deter people from viewing Carnicom’s website, which I corrected myself about right away, I don’t see how anything I said could have been construed as accusing anyone of being “deluded or part of the conspiracy”.

    Considering the rudeness and condescension I encountered here, I think I was EXCEEDINGLY respectful to many of the commenters. As you are well aware, I have no issues with people asking for evidence (although that certainly doesn’t oblige me to go on a fact-finding mission for them). Look at the comments. Look at the many jokes at my expense, the complete lack of empathy shown toward someone whom many of the posters claim to believe is severely mentally ill. Where did KIT ever accuse anyone of anything?!

    Stop trying to save face and admit you were wrong. That many of the commenters saw someone they thought was vulnerable, assumed wouldn’t fight back, and decided to have a little fun at her expense. Admit that it is irresponsible and downright pathetic to treat someone who has said she has emotional problems and has struggled with thoughts of suicide in this manner.

    “Don’t demand compassion when you have no kindness to give.”

    I uploaded an image just for you on my photobucket account, username: stopgeoengineering, entitled, “No kindness to give”. Why don’t you go ask the family of that little boy whether they think I have “no kindness to give”? Why don’t you ask my family, whose lives I continually fight for, despite all this negativity and persecution, and despite being seriously ill whether they think I have “no kindness to give”? In my video I defend complete strangers and here I stick up for Kit, another complete stranger. Why don’t you ask them whether they think I have “no kindness to give”?

    I have some kindness to give you, too, but I don’t think it’d make it past the mods!

  62. #63 Andrew
    February 16, 2012

    “I don’t see how anything I said could have been construed as accusing anyone of being “deluded or part of the conspiracy”.”

    You wrote:

    “most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor”

    You lied about what’s on Carnicon’s site and accused Allison of trying to discourage people from looking at that site.

    You wrote: “You guys are dangerously sure of yourselves and far too trusting. Ignorance must be bliss. ”

    You wrote: “You children need to grow up, stop defending YOUR delusions, get over your petty differences and get out there and FIGHT for your loved ones, who are all under biological attack! WAKE UP!”

    Shall I go on, or are you starting to remember what you wrote.

  63. #64 Narad
    February 16, 2012

    I don’t see how anything I said could have been construed as accusing anyone of being “deluded or part of the conspiracy”.

    WHAT? Let’s see, you’ve referred to people as “fluoride zombies,” “pathetic followers,” unwilling to “WAKE UP!,” “terrifie[d]” of Tanya’s twoof, “not thinking,” “condescending know-it-alls” the majority of whom “are only like that because they’ve been programmed and drugged from birth so they can’t think for themselves,” unable “to grasp any of this,” “in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor,” implicitly not “good people who value human life and freedom,” and “too lazy and complacent.”

    As for this,

    Other than to ask alison whether she was trying to deter people from viewing Carnicom’s website, which I corrected myself about right away,

    which refers to this,

    I’m a little confused Alison. Are you sure you’re referring to Carnicom’s website? “cycling, tax relief, alien photos & area 51….”. I don’t see any of that on his site, which is dedicated to geoengineering and Morgellon’s research. You wouldn’t be trying to deter people from checking it out, would you?

    …I seem to have missed the “correction.”

  64. #65 Fred
    February 16, 2012

    Tanya, mental health issues or not, it does not give you the right to treat people as you wish. You act like you want to argue, as if you like to fight. You keep coming back for more and claim foul when anyone steps on your feelings. You are losing your arguments based on facts, and now you are using the excuse of being mentally ill to gain sympathy.

    I’m a patient too. I know (knew) the game. If you really want help, I suggest you start listening, because you are not going to find better advice and information elsewhere. Seriously, these beliefs you have are delusions, they are not based on reality.

    If you want to remain delusional, mentally ill as you call it, then do so, but as I said, it does not give the right to treat others in this manner.

  65. #66 Tanya
    February 16, 2012

    I thought I corrected myself. I remember writing a post explaining that it was me who posted the wrong link, and apparently I either didn’t submit it or it didn’t get past moderation (I have repeatedly had that problem on this site which is why I don’t post links). Regardless, I was not accusing Alison (who appears to have run off with her tail between her legs after being called out) or anyone else of being part of any conspiracy, nor did I accuse anyone of being delusional. Impaired, maybe. Delusional, no.

    “You lied about what’s on Carnicon’s site and accused Allison of trying to discourage people from looking at that site.”

    Sweetie, there is a difference between lies and typos.

    I absolutely remember saying all of those things you two point out, and if you look back over the posts you will see that I did not say anything of that nature prior to being disrespected and even made my best effort to hold my tongue well after the mud-slinging began. Those comments were only directed at the people who were rude to me first. I don’t see anything unkind about giving a-holes a taste of their own medicine, that’s called having self-respect and refusing to be a doormat.

    Furthermore, I was not under the impression that I was speaking to mentally-ill, emotionally vulnerable individuals, whereas those who decided it would be fun to berate me made it clear that they were under that very impression about me.

    Continue to try to justify your irresponsible, pathetic, juvenile and heartless behaviour. It’s not making you look any better, although one has to question why some of you are so determined to make me look bad.

  66. #67 Narad
    February 16, 2012

    I don’t see anything unkind about giving a-holes a taste of their own medicine, that’s called having self-respect and refusing to be a doormat.

    No, it’s called being really pissy about not having one’s demands for recognition met the way one wants them to be. Let’s recall why people are showing you quotes from your own comments:

    I don’t see how anything I said could have been construed as accusing anyone of being “deluded or part of the conspiracy”.

    Rather than acknowledging any of what you posted and that, well, yeah, if it was construed that way, maybe there’s a way how it could have been construed as such, and maybe the way to figure that out is sitting right in front of my nose, instead one gets an immediate pivot to, oh, but it was deserved.

  67. #68 Tanya
    February 16, 2012

    Fred, see my previous comment, as it applies to you, too. I am not treating anyone with disrespect. If you are a jerk, however, don’t expect me to be nice. I’m a sweet, kind and loving person but I’m not a punching bag for bored self-proclaimed intellectuals.

    Me standing my ground here has nothing to do with my hurt feelings. I’ve been through a lot, and the childish utterances of a few nerds are no skin off my nose. I stand in defense of all Morgellons sufferers who are the brunt of the kind mistreatment I have received here.

    “If you really want help, I suggest you start listening, because you are not going to find better advice and information elsewhere.”

    Seriously, Fred, have you *listened* to yourself? You keep ragging on me because I don’t “listen to doctors”, now you are advising me to listen to a bunch of strangers on the internet who are totally cool with picking on someone they themselves have admitted they believe has serious mental issues? Wow! Just…wow.

    As I’ve said, by listening to myself, first and foremost, my health continues to improve steadily, so I think I’ll stick to that, thank you very much!

  68. #69 Tanya
    February 16, 2012

    Narad: Ok, whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your shameful behaviour so you can sleep at night, hon’. Lol, someone seems a little “pissy” himself.

  69. #70 Narad
    February 16, 2012

    Ok, whatever you have to tell yourself to justify your shameful behaviour so you can sleep at night, hon’.

    It’s unclear to me what you think is being “justified.” You are to all appearances quite indignant that your finger-filming psychic crutch isn’t getting the respect that you insist it deserves because of “fluoride zombies,” etc. As I said some time ago, if this trip works well enough for you, then so it goes. Don’t expect to be able to demand it be indulged when you take it on the road, though, “hon’.”

  70. #71 Jon H
    February 16, 2012

    “Show Some Compassion Toward Morgellons Sufferer’s!”

    Yeah. For example, when a Morgellon’s sufferer is away from their desk at work, don’t shake out a dust mop over their desk.

    And definitely don’t make a dust trail from the sufferer’s desk to the other side of the office.

    And definitely don’t confront the sufferer about the dust trail, telling them to get their Morgellon’s shit under control and stop leaving trails.

  71. #72 Andrew
    February 16, 2012

    “Sweetie, there is a difference between lies and typos.”

    There certainly is. You didn’t misspell a word – you made a deliberately false accusation. If you’re not embarrassed about having done so, so much the worse for you.

  72. #73 Tanya
    February 16, 2012

    It’s unclear to me what you think is being “justified.”

    Must be even slower on the uptake than I thought. Look at the tone of your posts. AGAIN, it is NOT that you don’t indulge my “delusions”, it is the way in which you express your opinion that I am delusional.

    You repeatedly accuse me of being a disinformation operative, and make many presumptuos, condescending and rude statements, even making fun of me for mispronuncing Morgellons (which, as far as I know, is impossible since it’s just a word being used for a syndrome that hasn’t yet been officially named, and, btw, who the hell cares anyways except someone trying desperately to make me look bad?!).

    If your mother or daughter were delusional, and you saw people treating them as you have treated me, how would you feel? As I stated in my video, I AM someones mother, and I AM someone’s daughter, and I bleed just like you.

    I am not asking anyone to “indulge” anything they believe to be a delusion, but there is this thing called sensitivity.

    I knew someone who really was delusional. At one point she even believed she was pregnant by an extra-terrestrial. This was in highschool and everyone showed her the uttmost caring and respect. Nobody made fun of her, nor did they repeatedly tell her how deluded she was, knowing the distress this could cause. Most of these people were teenagers. You are an adult (I would assume) and don’t even have the common sense or decency to show a little empathy to someone who is obviously not well, delusional or not. Don’t you get that?

  73. #74 Tanya
    February 16, 2012

    “There certainly is. You didn’t misspell a word – you made a deliberately false accusation. If you’re not embarrassed about having done so, so much the worse for you.”

    Umm, actually, Andrew, in my original post I mis-spelled Carnicom’s url to end in .com, rather than .org, and although I did jump to conclusions, it’s not as though I felt particularly bad about it, as Alison’s tone with me was already condescending, however much she may have underestimated my ability to recognize that, and was accusing me of “spinning” (which I interpret as fabricating) a conspiracy, ie., lying, PRIOR to making any comment about her potentially trying to deter visitors. Again, I am nice to people to the extent that they are nice to me. Being kind doesn’t mean being a doormat or a kiss-ass.

  74. #75 Andrew
    February 16, 2012

    You claimed that Alison was lying when she truthfully reported what she saw at the website you asked her to go to, rather than noticing and correcting your own mistake.

    Rather than apologizing, you now claim that it’s Alison’s fault for being condescending when reporting (correctly) that you sent her to a ridiculous website.

    “it’s not as though I felt particularly bad about it”

    Obviously

  75. #76 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 16, 2012

    Stop trying to save face and admit you were wrong. That many of the commenters saw someone they thought was vulnerable, assumed wouldn’t fight back, and decided to have a little fun at her expense. Admit that it is irresponsible and downright pathetic to treat someone who has said she has emotional problems and has struggled with thoughts of suicide in this manner.

    And somehow accusing us of being “irresponsible and downright pathetic” is still “respectful,” in Tanya’s world.

    You can’t have it both ways, Tanya. If you’re the horribly fragile pitiable helpless waif who could never survive the hideous crushing impact of people not agreeing with her, you shouldn’t be here. If you insist on coming to a place where people do debate these things, and are – *gasp!* – scornful of absurd conspiracy theories like “Morgellons = gub’mint nanoworms” then you shouldn’t whine about not being handled with kid gloves.

  76. #77 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    I repeat, I did not come here expecting support, I came here to raise awareness and right now, I am trying to make the point that, whether I believe I am delusional, if YOU believe I am, and are NOT a “irresponsible and downright pathetic” individual, you would be showing some sensitivity.

    What if I was really as mentally unstable as you make me out to be, and I found these comments so upsetting I killed myself? It happens. I have shared that I’ve been suicidal in the past. Would you feel no remorse at all?

    Just because everyone else on here does it doesn’t make it okay. I don’t ask to be treated with kid gloves, but it is not difficult to make your views known while still being respectful.

    When I came here, my initial post expressed some opinions that you clearly disagree with and that I knew was contrary to what both the author of the article, and many of the other commenters believed. Did I belittle Orac for expressing his views? Did I attack anyone of the previous commenters who I knew would not see eye-to-eye with me?

    What did Kit do? She doesn’t believe “Morgellons = gub’mint nanoworms”. Yet instead of showing compassion, all I see is people trying to make a sick woman feel like an idiot. What about Victoria, of the DailyMail article, who devotes so much of her time to helping other Morgellons sufferers get better? I have never seen her speak of conspiracies, yet she is also subject to ongoing verbal abuse and harassment over the internet.

    Go look at some of the comments on the hundreds of recent articles reporting on the CDC study. Regardless of whether Morgellons patients believe Morgellons is part of a conspiracy (and, as stated before, I think most don’t know what the hell it is), there are IDIOTS out there who think it’s cool to make cruel jokes at the expense of Morgellons sufferers, and that’s not okay and I will stand up to them.

    Nobody seems to want to answer my questions about how they would feel if their mother or daughter was delusional and you saw them being treated as I am being treated here? Hmm, I wonder what some of your mothers would have to say if they could read these comments. Tsk, tsk!

  77. #78 Narad
    February 17, 2012

    Must be even slower on the uptake than I thought. Look at the tone of your posts.

    I suggest that you look at the tone of yours.

    AGAIN, it is NOT that you don’t indulge my “delusions”, it is the way in which you express your opinion that I am delusional.

    Show me where I have suggested that you are delusional.

    You repeatedly accuse me of being a disinformation operative,

    If you don’t understand this reference, you don’t understand your fellow travelers.

    and make many presumptuos, condescending and rude statements, even making fun of me for mispronuncing Morgellons (which, as far as I know, is impossible since it’s just a word being used for a syndrome that hasn’t yet been officially named, and, btw, who the hell cares anyways except someone trying desperately to make me look bad?!).

    I pointed out a piece examining the etymology of the word, which, if you do not dispute the attestations, clearly indicates a hard ‘g’.

    If your mother or daughter were delusional, and you saw people treating them as you have treated me, how would you feel?

    If you think that I have not seen frank delusion up close and personal, you are sorely mistaken. You ain’t it. And if I haven’t made it perfectly clear already, I think you’re a Morgellons dilettante.

    I am not asking anyone to “indulge” anything they believe to be a delusion, but there is this thing called sensitivity.

    “Sensitivity,” apparently, being something that you feel entitled to on demand but dispense at your leisure, in the extant case purely for show to someone who hasn’t been around for weeks. Narcissistic ally-seeking, in short.

    There are no doubt reasons underlying the construction of this defensive edifice. But if you don’t like people suggesting that there may be better property available down the road, you’re the one with the moat and drawbridge.

  78. #79 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    Lol, oh, so you actually think I’m making this all up. I thought all the disinfo agent accusations were just you being mean. So I’m not one of the real “delusional Morgellons patients” (and you know this for sure because you KNOW 150% that Morgellons is a delusion and I am clearly too lucid to be delusional), so its okay to be a dipshit. Ahhh, now I see.

    Anyone else want to use this excuse?

    “Narcissistic ally-seeking, in short.”

    LOOK AROUND!!! Why on EARTH would a Morgellons sufferer come HERE seeking an ALLY??? Dude, I know places where I can find plenty of allies, and I knew when I posted here that this wasn’t one of them. I am well aware of the kind of topics discussed here and the level of arrogance shown to anyone who doesn’t think like the hive.

    “There are no doubt reasons underlying the construction of this defensive edifice.”

    Yes, I am doing this to try to get people to THINK about how their words could affect others, specifically Morgellons sufferers, but if believing I am a disinfo agent or someone who just gets off on being a fraud (without actually soliciting any donations or peddling any products, kind of a crappy fraud!) helps you feel okay about your behaviour, do what you gotta do!

    Anyways, I’m off to hit Cliff and Alex up for a raise. You’d think a hardworking agent like me would at least be able to afford a higher res. camera and some bleach for her fricken’ roots, lol!

  79. #80 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    (sorry if this is a double post, the last one didn’t go through I think cause I used a swear-word…oops)

    Narad:
    Lol, oh, so you actually think I’m making this all up. I thought all the disinfo agent accusations were just you being mean. So I’m not one of the real “delusional Morgellons patients” (and you know this for sure because you KNOW 150% that Morgellons is a delusion and I am clearly too lucid to be delusional), so its okay to be an a-hole. Ahhh, now I see.

    Anyone else want to use this excuse?

    “Narcissistic ally-seeking, in short.”

    LOOK AROUND!!! Why on EARTH would a Morgellons sufferer come HERE seeking an ALLY??? Dude, I know places where I can find plenty of allies, and I knew when I posted here that this wasn’t one of them. I am well aware of the kind of topics discussed here and the level of arrogance shown to anyone who doesn’t think like the hive.

    “There are no doubt reasons underlying the construction of this defensive edifice.”

    Yes, I am doing this to try to get people to THINK about how their words could affect others, specifically Morgellons sufferers, but if believing I am a disinfo agent or someone who just gets off on being a fraud (without actually soliciting any donations or peddling any products, kind of a crappy fraud!) helps you feel okay about your behaviour, do what you gotta do!

    Anyways, I’m off to hit Cliff and Alex up for a raise. You’d think a hardworking agent like me would at least be able to afford a higher res. camera and some bleach for her fricken’ roots, lol!

  80. #81 Militant Agnostic
    February 17, 2012

    Andrew @275

    Rather than apologizing, you now claim that it’s Alison’s fault for being condescending when reporting (correctly) that you sent her to a ridiculous website.

    Actually, Tanya’s nym links to an equally ridiculous website with front page links to David Icke and Alex Jones.

    On this or on one of the Emily threads someone mentioned the absence of contrails/chemtrails during the immediate post 9/11 period* and the effect on temperature. This led me riff on Robert Anton Wilson (Illuminatus Trilogy) and wonder whether history is driven not by warring secret societies, but by warring conspiracy theories. In this scenario, the 9/11 attacks were of the chemtrail CTers who sought to ground all aviation and thereby prevent the spraying of mind control chemicals. They hoped that this interruption would allow the sheeple to awaken and realize the nefarious plans of the NWO.

    *My father was fly fishing in the Northwest Territories at the time and they realized that something serious had happened long before they were informed by the fishing lodge owner, because they noticed the disappearance of contrails from the sky. The numerous overseas flights that would have passed over the Canadian Arctic were diverted to the first place they could land.

  81. #82 Militant Agnostic
    February 17, 2012

    I have a comment in moderation, apparently for suspected lunacy, since it contains no links or profanity.

  82. #83 Edith Prickly
    February 17, 2012

    Nobody seems to want to answer my questions about how they would feel if their mother or daughter was delusional and you saw them being treated as I am being treated here? Hmm, I wonder what some of your mothers would have to say if they could read these comments. Tsk, tsk!

    Hey I’ll give it a whirl, even though I know the most likely response will be more crocodile tears about how MEEEEEEAAAAN we all are.

    If any family member or close friend of mine was showing the level of disordered thinking and obsessive behaviour that you’ve been demonstrating here, I would be strongly urging him or her to get treatment, or at least stay off the internet for a few weeks and try reconnecting with fellow human beings who aren’t all wrapped up the drama of imaginary conspiracies. That to me is a compassionate response. I’d consider both cruel and irresponsible to let a loved one get trapped in a false belief system for the sake of not hurting their feelings.

    A close friend of mine had a similar experience with her father, who got sucked into the moon landing hoax conspiracy during the final years of his life. I don’t believe he was suffering any mental illness apart from being lonely and socially isolated – he was a person who had worked very hard his entire life and had trouble adjusting to being retired. It’s quite easy for people to get sucked in by crackpots like Alex Jones when they’re feeling vulnerable and have a lot of time on their hands, and there shouldn’t be any shame in admitting that’s happened to you. Your problem is you’ve made these beliefs so integral to your identity that you get your ego all in a knot when people refuse to take your ideas seriously and dig in your heels instead of listening.

    And as for what my mother would say if she saw these comments? Probably that we’re all being far too kind. She has a very low tolerance for nonsense and she’d have much sharper words for you than anyone here has used.

  83. #84 Shay
    February 17, 2012

    I’d consider both cruel and irresponsible to let a loved one get trapped in a false belief system for the sake of not hurting their feelings.

    Brava, Edith.

  84. #85 Shay
    February 17, 2012

    I’d consider both cruel and irresponsible to let a loved one get trapped in a false belief system for the sake of not hurting their feelings.

    Brava, Edith.

  85. #86 Narad
    February 17, 2012

    The only thing I’m getting from Tanya’s most recent reply is that the NWO nanotech apparently targets reading comprehension as well.

  86. #87 JohnV
    February 17, 2012

    “I am clearly too lucid to be delusional”

    You don’t say?

  87. #88 NCK
    February 17, 2012

    Haaaa.. all these earned degrees here, all these “brainiacs” and STILL namecalling…..more posts trying to illustrate how CLEVER someone is…..That woman tanya is right, bitchslapping those who show that you can earn a degree, but not one in dignity and class…….oh, yeah, and the taunts about spelling, punctuation, paragraphs….. Haven’t you heard? People who bring that up a big wet p*****s now..that stopped being cool and clever a decade ago.

    So, where those pocket protectors with pride, knowing that you can verbally rip to shreds, with your clever wits, people who hurting and scared…..tough guys…..

  88. #89 Gray Falcon
    February 17, 2012

    NCK, Tanya pretty much declared she doesn’t care whether what she says is true or not. That does not deserve any form of respect.

  89. #90 Fred
    February 17, 2012

    The Morgellons dot org website information has been replaced with the following message

    The Morgellons Research Foundation (MRF) is no longer an active organization and is not accepting registrations or donations.

    The MRF donated remaining funds to the Oklahoma State University Foundation to support their Morgellons disease research.

  90. #91 Bronze Dog
    February 17, 2012

    I notice NCK doesn’t address any of the substance behind our real arguments, and instead cherrypicks the most trivial jokes and and side insults to complain about. He does this while hypocritically insulting us, like Tanya was doing.

    So, tell us, NCK, how would a global conspiracy like the one Tanya proposes be tenable? I’ve made it clear that one of my objections is that they’d be too busy policing their own to actually accomplish anything.

    Another is that there are easier, more effective, less expensive, and repeatedly proven means of controlling people, such as the manufactured health scare.

  91. #92 Fred
    February 17, 2012

    Nick, You are being rather presumptuous. Tanya does not seem to care that she is spreading misinformation. I am not a ‘pocket protector wearing graduate’, rather someone who was naively lured into a medical nightmare by some equally delusional disease mongers.

    Anymore, I have little tolerance for people like Tanya actively spreading misinformation and even less tolerance given the fact that she is essentially targeting “people who hurting and scared.” The last thing those patients need is exposure to the delusional rantings of someone like Tanya. Harsh? No.

    Other peoples lives are just as important and valuable as Tanya. It is fine if she wants to keep her delusions to herself, but to actively seek out others and drag them into her drama must not be tolerated. BTW, she is making a really good case for forced medication, up until now, I have been completely opposed to forced drugging of psychiatric patients.

  92. #93 Narad
    February 17, 2012

    BTW, she is making a really good case for forced medication, up until now, I have been completely opposed to forced drugging of psychiatric patients.

    No, she’s doing nothing of the sort.

  93. #94 Fred
    February 17, 2012

    No, she’s doing nothing of the sort.

    How about cutting the power to her computer. 🙂

  94. #95 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    Hey NCK, yup, big wet p*****s about covers it! Of course these pompous, self-important types could never admit, “Hey, I’ve been a jerk.” Nope, they have to justify their apalling behaviour by pretending to believe I’m making this up, or saying I’m spreading *dangerous misinformation* oooooh! Or, even twisting things so that I’m the disrespectful one, when I am only responding in kind.

    What they are REALLY doing is picking on someone who is genuinely debilitatingly ill, and trying to help other sick people and dispel the myths about Morgellons that obviously these numbskulls have bought hook, line and sinker.

    Someday, Morgellons sufferers WILL be vindicated, and what I wouldn’t give to see the looks on those dweeby little faces on that day! I normally wouldn’t wish ill upon anyone, but I kind of hope they get it, BAD, and get to feel what it’s like to be treated like a loon, or worse, when you’re 100% sane. To be ganged up on a bunch of vultures whose goal is to make suffering people feel stupid, while stroking their insatiable egos.

    They seem totally oblivious to the harm THEY are causing by perpetuating this type of cruelty and ignorance toward Morgellons patients, and based on what? An under-funded, INCONCLUSIVE study! Pa-freaking-thetic!

  95. #96 herr doktor bimler
    February 17, 2012

    how they would feel if their mother or daughter was delusional and you saw them being treated as I am being treated here?

    If this hypothetical relative had assured me that “What people (at least the type who would laugh at me) think about me is of no concern to me […] Seriously, get over yourself, your opinion of me is nothing”, then I would know that there was nothing to worry about.

  96. #97 ildi
    February 17, 2012

    It’s Tanya’s kids I feel sorry for…

  97. #98 Narad
    February 17, 2012

    Of course these pompous, self-important types could never admit, “Hey, I’ve been a jerk.”

    Project much, Tanya?

  98. #99 Hypothetical
    February 17, 2012

    In a just world, someone who has been allowed to post thousands of words in tens of comments on a blog would be grateful for having been allowed to do so, all the more if the commenter knew that the owner of the blog disagreed with the commenter, and yet still allowed the comments. The commenter might show that gratitude by taking care in his or her comments to have his or her facts straight, and accept responsibility when his or her own errors result in misunderstanding.

  99. #100 j.michael carney
    February 19, 2012

    i might not be a veterinarian but i know what a horses ass looks like…so much disinformation,so many drs that are all in the fold..every things fine and the whole world could be on fire they would say its all in your mind..the thing thats the biggest killer ,the medical est…i remember the doctors in israel went on strike and the death rate went to zero for two weeks ..the news papers ran a story that said maybe the drs should stay on strike forever ,the next day all the drs went back to work…no more strike

  100. #101 Chris
    February 19, 2012

    Ah, Mr. Carney! So many ellipses and so little actual English grammar, how can we tell what you really mean?

  101. #102 Bronze Dog
    February 19, 2012

    Sometimes I get amused by the incoherent trolls. With their love of ellipses, I wonder if they talk like William Shatner parodies in the physical world.

    Of course, whatever point you were trying to make probably needs evidence, Mr. Carney. Present it.

  102. #103 herr doktor bimler
    February 19, 2012

    i remember the doctors in israel went on strike and the death rate went to zero for two weeks

    Mr Carney’s memory is (to be charitable) a creative force:

    A four-month Israeli doctors’ strike in 1983 was found to have some definable effects on public health – the percentage of cesarean sections increased somewhat, and one study suggested hypertension patients might have received worse treatment – but no observed impact on mortality.

    Another key example used to support the proposition that fewer doctors means fewer deaths comes from a June 2000 article in the British Medical Journal written during another Israeli strike; the author reported that in the three months after doctors walked out death rates fell significantly in affected cities. However, her data was by no means the result of a scientific study but consisted mostly of anecdotal reports from funeral home directors, who claimed they’d seen “the same thing in 1983.”

    ht_tp://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2741/when-doctors-go-on-strike-does-the-death-rate-go-down

  103. #104 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Hahaha! We’re so smart and superior, let’s make fun of someone’s grammar, rather than actually arguing their point. Apparently, however, you super-geniuses aren’t bright enough to figure out that a quick google search of “israel doctors strike death rate” results in numerous relevant articles. Derp!

  104. #105 Edith Prickly
    February 19, 2012

    Apparently, however, you super-geniuses aren’t bright enough to figure out that a quick google search of “israel doctors strike death rate” results in numerous relevant articles. Derp!

    I did Google it, and found this very interesting discussion of why only a conspiracy nut would believe it:
    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2741/when-doctors-go-on-strike-does-the-death-rate-go-down

    Da Derp Dee Derp Da Teetley Derpee Derpee Dumb!

    BTW, you do know you’re posting on two separate Morgellon’s threads, right? You mentioned being intoxicated on the other thread – I was just wondering.

  105. #106 Krebiozen
    February 19, 2012

    i know what a horses ass looks like…so much disinformation

    Which you are contributing to – almost everything you write here is untrue.

    the thing thats the biggest killer ,the medical est

    Untrue, unless you believe that the medical establishment somehow causes heart attacks I suppose.

    i remember the doctors in israel went on strike and the death rate went to zero for two weeks

    Untrue. Maybe you are referring to the 4 month strike in 1983 in which “Two examinations of outcome measures found no strike-related increases in mortality and no rise in perinatal mortality” (PMID 3582596)? Or to the strike in 2000 when an article in the BMJ suggested mortality had decreased, “according to a survey of burial societies” (but not to zero). Even if this unusual method of estimating mortality was accurate this was likely due to the postponement of “tens of thousands of elective operations”, which of course carry risks, but which reduce mortality in the longer term.

  106. #107 Terrie
    February 19, 2012

    Tanya, “sane” is a legal standard, and a pretty low one at that. Ted Bundy, Charles Manson and Jeffery Dahmer were all sane. It’s hardly something to brag about.

    As for the threat of people being so mentally delicate that they might kill themselves due to our comments, screw you. Being mentally ill does not excuse a person from personal responsibility. If they can’t handle it, they shouldn’t be here.

  107. #108 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Edith, sounds like you could benefit from a few drinks and a couple tokes. Might loosen the stick.

    Terrie,

    “screw you”

    Aww, someone’s getting a little testy. Cute.

  108. #109 Bronze Dog
    February 19, 2012

    I didn’t bother with searching for the doctor strike thing, because:

    1) You made the claim. It’s your job to back it up. I’m not going to do your homework for you. Usually when I point this out, the woo tries to worm his way out of the commitment and bluff his way through the conversation.

    2) Whenever I do a search in a situation like this, I usually find that the original data or story actually contradicts what the woo proponent says, or I find that they’re just blindly parroting an urban legend fabricated out of nothing by some altie guru they worship as an Absolute Authority. When I tell them, they throw a hissy fit because I was looking at some page they didn’t and dared to think about it for myself.

    That’s why it’s a waste of my time doing a woo’s homework for them.

  109. #110 Krebiozen
    February 19, 2012

    Bronze Dog,

    That’s why it’s a waste of my time doing a woo’s homework for them.

    It’s a hobby of mine, finding the origins of these tall tales. As you say, it’s almost always untrue, grossly exaggerated or based on a misunderstanding of what someone has read. That distortion then gets repeated literally thousands of times, and most people don’t bother checking if it’s true, beyond a quick Google, because it agrees with their preconceptions. Then they accuse skeptics of being sheeple who don’t think for themselves.

  110. #111 At last it makes sense
    February 19, 2012

    “Edith, sounds like you could benefit from a few drinks and a couple tokes.”

    Tanya, if you would post when not stoned out of your gourd, maybe you’d make some sense. It’s the idiot’s job to provide proof of his dumbass claims, not our job to do it for him. Words for you to live by…

  111. #112 Edith Prickly
    February 19, 2012

    Edith, sounds like you could benefit from a few drinks and a couple tokes. Might loosen the stick.

    It might. Or it might make me think it’s a good idea to film a 10-minute epic about a piece of lint on the end of my finger and post it on the Internet.

  112. #113 Terrie
    February 20, 2012

    Tanya, you’re damned right I’m testy. I live with chronic mental illness. Every day, I face a society that thinks I should be treated like an infant, that my illness makes me weak, stupid or delicate. I don’t appreciate people pushing those sorts of stereotypes as a cheap debate tactic. Those sort of tactics make it harder for people with chronic illness, mental or otherwise, to get the legitimate social accommodations that they need to participate in society to the fullest extent possible.

  113. #114 Tanya
    March 6, 2012

    Terrie, Just saw this and felt the need to respond. I was not bringing up suicide as a “cheap debate tactic”. I am not here to debate, I’m here to raise awareness.

    Suicide and suicidal thoughts/tendencies are a big problem amongst Morgellons sufferers. I am pointing out that if any of these know-it-alls who are so quick to poke fun or make hostile remarks at Morgellons sufferers (not just me, and not just here) had actually done any research, they would know this, and those that are aware of this, regardless of whether they believe Morgellons to be a delusion, should show some sensitivity.

    This does not negate personal responsibility. If someone chooses to kill themselves, that’s their decision, and ultimately nobody else is to “blame”, however, that does not justify people’s unkind, tactless and even cruel comments toward someone who is clearly suffering.

    It’s fine to have the opinion that Morgellons could be psychological, it just surprises me that so many people with that opinion think that justifies treating Morgellons sufferers (or in their minds, delusional people) with less respect, or expressing those views in an unkind way.

    Terrie, asking for the respect you deserve is not a weakness, and if society chooses to see see you as weak, stupid or delicate…IGNORE SOCIETY!

    Your existence has nothing to do with what goes on in the minds of others, unless you allow it, and I think you know that.

    You will never change the way everyone thinks. Currently there are about 7 billion people out there and most of them will never see you for who you really are. Stop waiting for them to see you as the strong, competent person you know you are, and simply embody that strength. Don’t worry about my request for a little respect and sensitivity having any effect on the way people see you. Better yet, stop worrying about how people see you and just be the greatness you are.

    I would hope most people would choose to be kind and decent regardless of whether or not a person has mental health issues. I was merely pointing out how much more insensitive it is to be a jerk toward someone who has stated that they are facing a health crisis.

    You are right. People who are so vulnerable that a mean comment on the internet could cause them to harm themselves probably should be avoiding such situations, but that doesn’t make it okay to be mean. We are adults. Why do we have to treat one another this way? Sorry, I just don’t get it!

  114. #115 Bennie Herny
    March 20, 2012

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  115. #116 A.R. McQueen
    March 21, 2012

    To all you skeptics:
    Morgellons is real. It’s something. I have read Marc Nuemanns report and although I disagree with some of his findings most seem to be on the level. If you haven’t experienced these symptoms you are just clueless and are truly the ignorant for stating no matter how kindly or scientifically that this is delusional. I believe I may have this and wouldn;’t wish it on anyone. Whatever it really is and no matter what has caused it, is a very gradual build up of symptoms that may have started years ago. It is somekind of allergic reaction to something; sufferers are reacting to something. Did you ever go to a barbecue or camping and there are some people plagued by mosquitoes and some who aren’t. Try to look at this the same way. I am tired of being diagnosed with chronic dermatitus. I want to be normal again but as I don’t have insurance and I am on unemployment right now and have to go to a NYC facility for medical care; tests and scrapings aren’t an option. In fact the doctor that is treating me is somewhat of a lazy ninny thouch she makes sure that she keeps her distance when I see her. Why is it that there are doctors and nurses that have contracted this trying to help people with it? They must also be delusional as well right? It seems to me that the medical profession as well as the CDC is going all out to try to make the public think that this is nonsense. It is not! Like I said earlier it is a slow process and as more and more children begin to start to show signs of the disease maybe then you will all wake-up. Human nature is that if you yourself haven’t seen or experienced something for yourself then it can’t possibly be real. This is truly narrow minded and antiquated thinking. Unfortunately for all you doubters you or yours will have to contract this to change your minds. Mesnwhile, the bsnd plays on.

  116. #117 W. Kevin Vicklund
    March 21, 2012

    McQueen, maybe you should actually read what has been written. The delusion is in the belief of what caused the symptoms, not the symptoms themselves, as was explained many times. If I claim that Russian ninjas slashed my hand with a sword, the fact that I am bleeding from what looks like a bad paper cut does not mean that I am not delusional.

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