Respectful Insolence

On hitting your head against a brick wall

Sadly, this isn’t too far from the truth when it comes to some of these anti-vaccine doctors:

Actually, it’s too generous. My only criticism of this video is that the mother with the child with suspected pertussis wasted more time with this idiot than was wise.

Comments

  1. #1 Ashtanga London
    July 26, 2011

    LOL

    Sid, if you ever catch AIDS, I can show you how to cure it with Omming and Mudra for £129.95 ;)

    And I’ll throw in a free organic gluten-free chocolate-chip chakra too.

  2. #2 Narad
    July 26, 2011

    They totally left out the sodium ascorbate! It’s the preferred pertussis treatment with a 70-year-old data point that didn’t hold up too well in the first place.

  3. #3 Chris
    July 26, 2011

    Where’s the kid!?

    Having taken a kid who had very serious issues with breathing to the emergency department, usually after talking to the on call doctor on the phone, this drives me crazy!

    One time we left Thanksgiving dinner with the grandparents because the child was having difficultly breathing. We did not call the answering service and turned off the freeway to go directly to Children’s Hospital. His oxygen level was below 80% and he was admitted, but we had to pay more because we did not get pre-approval.

    All four times was due to croup, not pertussis. Trust me, spending nights at the hospital is not fun, even when it is not Thanksgiving. Aaaargh!

    I can’t imagine what would have happened if he had pertussis.

    Considering that he was diagnosed with a very severe genetic heart condition when he was a teenager, I might actually be discussing his burial. Think about it you idiotic anti-vax people.

  4. #4 Sid Offit
    July 26, 2011

    A painfully boring video urging us to get to the hospital as soon as possible so we can subject our child to the risk of medical errors and antibiotic overtreatment. Great idea.

  5. #5 Julian Frost
    July 26, 2011

    @Sid Offit Troll:
    As opposed to the risk of NOT taking the child to hospital and having him or her die in front of us.
    Earlier this year I attended the funeral of my parent’s neighbours’ daughter. She was just 18 years old. She was a diabetic with hypothyroidism and her mother walked into her room only to find her having an attack. She died in hospital.
    Sid, there are things I’d like to call you but Orac’s filters would gobble them immediately.

  6. #6 Julian Frost
    July 26, 2011

    @Sid Offit Troll:
    As opposed to the risk of NOT taking the child to hospital and having him or her die in front of us.
    Earlier this year I attended the funeral of my parent’s neighbours’ daughter. She was just 18 years old. She was a diabetic with hypothyroidism and her mother walked into her room only to find her having an attack. She died in hospital.
    Sid, there are things I’d like to call you but Orac’s filters would gobble them immediately.

  7. #7 Chris
    July 26, 2011

    Julian Frost, if you take the fact that Sid Troll wrote that ten minutes after me, it shows that he and his troll friends are complete idiots. This proves that he, Little Augie, Th1Th2, the yoga guy, and their friends should be ignored.

  8. #8 Snake Eyes
    July 26, 2011

    Hi, Orac et al,

    I’m the creator of this video. Thanks for showing it. And you are correct in your criticism. The child is just off screen with Grandma, and the mother is spending way too much time with the antivaccinationist. That is why I had her preface the scenario with “But your demeanor seems knowledgable and kind, and is quite disarming. I will take a moment to chat with you although that is usually not recommended in my situation.” She was initially taken in by the woo. If she were not, there would be no video. Consider it a Simpsons-style suspension of disbelief.

    I agree with Chris. If you suspect your child has pertussis, do NOT chat with strangers on the street, especially ones with a Canary Party badge.

    I am sorry that it bored Sid to the point of pain. Okay, not really.

  9. #9 Chris
    July 26, 2011

    Thank you, Snake Eyes.

    And just as an aside… I really do not understand Munchhausen Syndrome by Proxy. I hate hospitals, and it is not good when a couple sees you outside the elevator and says “You look like you know where everything is!”, and I could direct them to where they needed to go.

    I am so glad that the hospital has changed enough in the last ten years that I can now get lost. I am no longer that familiar with where everything is, because I don’t have to spend so much time there.

    Think about that, trolls.

  10. #10 Chris
    July 26, 2011

    Oh, wait. Why would I assume that trolls actually bother to think?

  11. #11 gsdaf
    July 26, 2011
  12. #12 Sub-Zero
    July 26, 2011

    Boring Sid Offit is a positive after effect of this brilliant video, Snake-Eyes. I am proud to know you from the internet. However, you did forget to promote our facebook page which regularly debunks Tenpenny’s misinformation and other funs.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Doctor-Tenpenny-Getting-Rich-Off-Stupidity/207092326001249

  13. #13 Ashtanga London
    July 26, 2011

    That other thread inspired me to do some more googling (sorry It’s not very scientific).

    You know what else cures cancer, apparently? Good old pot! wtf? Brings new meaning to ‘my body is a temple’ when you see them all puffing away in Rishikesh!

    But hey, this is a thread about dangerous alternative treatments. Surely these dangerous alternative cancer treatments don’t belong here?

    If people are using it to help them eat (from chemo killing appetite), then if pot really did cure cancer someone would have noticed these guys were living longer, surely?

  14. #14 GoGo
    July 26, 2011

    Good old Sid Offit/The Vaccine Machine/Robert- Other things that bore Sid… poor children dying, medically accurate information, modern hairstyles. You know how to prevent ‘antibiotic overtreatment’? Prevent certain illnesses in the first place by getting vaccinated. Come on now, you’ve bought Tenpenny’s “Masters of Awakening” package, didn’t you?

  15. #15 René Najera
    July 26, 2011

    Here’s how I see it.

    Bob-o has stated time and again on his blog, on his generation rescue postings, and on his facebook page that he has never taken his 15 year-old, unvaccinated daughter to the doctor. So he’s an outlier. Like all good, human outliers, he believes himself to be the standard, not the exception.

    Also, he is one of those “rugged individuals” who don’t need no stinkin’ help from the government. If you’re up for a good nosebleed, go read some of his stuff. It’s all a bunch of whining about the government this, the government that, Offit this, Mnookin that, public health this, vaccines that. I mean, if I didn’t know any better, I’d say that his 15 year-old wrote that stuff. (The whining really does bleed through.)

    And here’s a gem from Mr. Schecter:

    Here’s another example of a reporter demonstrating her belief that an utter lack of knowledge about infectious illnesses qualifies one to write about infectious illnesses.

    He whines that a reporter shouldn’t be writing about infectious diseases because she doesn’t know about infectious diseases. Then, right after that, Mr. Schecter, who holds no formal training in infectious diseases, GOES ON TO WRITE ABOUT INFECTIOUS DISEASES!

    The irony.

  16. #16 Ted
    July 26, 2011

    Sounds like Habakus and Holland pitching their book at their “rallies” (after all they went to Stanford and Harvard!!), or Holland going on Murdoch’s Fox (after all, Fox was lauded by “Age of Autism” as being truly fair and balanced- so it must be true, right?) or all the hucksters who meet near Chicago every May (hyperbaric tents, chelation, macrobiotic yoga, etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseam) But after all we are merely tools of Big Pharma. Let’s not allow facts to get in our way, yes?

  17. #17 Liz Ditz
    July 26, 2011

    Thank you Snake Eyes and friends for the video and the link to the facebook page “Doctor” Tenpenny Getting Rich off Stupidity.

    re Ashtanga London (and the other off-topic, perseverating folk often seen here). Our host Orac’s forbearance in not banning these folk is admirable. I don’t really want to do a killfile. I just wish the comment signature was at the top, rather than the bottom so I could get by faster.

    I can only quote Gray Falcon:

    Mr. Ashtanga London, I only have this to say to you, and nothing else. Do you think we’ll take the word of someone so clueless he doesn’t even realize that it’s rude to post off-topic?

  18. #18 Melissa G
    July 26, 2011

    Snake Eyes, this RULES! :) Thanks for the jab of reality to pain the antivaxxers.

  19. #19 lilady
    July 26, 2011

    @ Snake Eyes: Truly brilliant video, thanks so much.

    @ Chris: It’s hard to believe that you paid extra for the ER visit…especially since your child was admitted through the ER.

    Most medical insurance companies have a “stipulation clause” about ER visits that don’t result in an admission for those who use the ER as their primary care provider with truly non-emergency medical problems. Of course, if your child needs a treatment for asthma, seizures or other emerging disorders and is later discharged, you can easily appeal and go further to your state’s insurance department that regulates all providers of medical insurance in the state. I’ve done that in the past, very successfully…so successfully in fact, that the insurance company caved completely every time whenever my son needed IV push anticonvulsants to stop seizures.

    @ Rene Najera: Yes, we know the depths of Sid Offal’s science knowledge (nil) and the sick depths of his humor. The same Sid Offal who poked fun at the picture of the young girl on the SBM website, whose face was covered with smallpox pustules.

    Hmm, is the incredibly off-topic yogi one of the pothead’s sock puppets.

  20. #20 DLC
    July 27, 2011

    Hello. . . I woul_d like to . . . kick the quack in the belly very. hard.
    (the automated voices give me a chuckle.)

  21. #21 Chris
    July 27, 2011

    I just went on a tour of Tenpenny’s website. Oh, wow. That woman needs some serious design input, it is a royal mess.

    Of course the most prominent part was this on each page:
    © TENPENNY ENTERPRISES

    It is all about the money folks. Who cares about the health of children when you can make a buck off of scared parents?

  22. #22 Family Physicians
    July 27, 2011

    Family Physicians do care a lot about our health & fitness, we shouldn’t neglect to go for checkup because the consequences of the disease can be severe.

  23. #23 ZDoggMD
    July 28, 2011

    Tenpenny is something else! I sorta spoofed her something fierce today on her own facebook site. Suprise—she’s not too bright! Check it out: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150331682092095&set=a.429350427094.226140.407504242094&type=1&theater

  24. #24 augustine
    July 28, 2011

    Z Dogg the rapper Medical Doctor who has some self esteem issues

    Tenpenny is something else! I sorta spoofed her something fierce today on her own facebook site. Suprise—she’s not too bright!

    That’s because she’s honest and took you for your word, ZDogg the iatragenic killa. You are deceptively fierce and not honest. Not two qualities I would bragg about if I were you, dog. Especially since your profession requires on honesty.

    What city is it you practice/rap out of in again?

  25. #25 Ashtanga London
    July 28, 2011

    Yo +1 internets to DJzogg!

    Doctors should make more art! it’s the weapon of choice for an info-war against deluded illogical folk!

    Hey lilady, sorry for yesterday, it all got a bit silly wouldn’t you say?

    I’d still like you to take that legal action please, it will be interesting for sure.

    How’s progress with:
    1) The subpoena
    2) Calculating the ‘damages’
    3) Locating my ‘assets’?

  26. #26 lilady
    July 28, 2011

    ZDoggMD what a terrific caper and example of “good” trolling.

    Of course you will raise the wrath of trolls who cruise here; ignore them. A medical doctor AND a rap star…they are so green(er) with envy.

  27. #27 augustine
    July 28, 2011

    A medical doctor AND a rap star…they are so green(er) with envy.

    Patients must just flock to you and your gangsta ways. Actually it’s just because you’re on their insurance. Venna, want’s to know if you take medicaid, Zdogg. Oh how you love those medicaid patients, don’t you? You thrive on medicaid, right?

  28. #28 novalox
    July 28, 2011

    @ZDoggMD

    Had a good laugh at your comments on Tenpenny’s page.

    That fact that you pissed off the hypocrite “christian” troll makes it all the better.

  29. #29 lilady
    July 28, 2011

    @ novalox: Pissed off, foaming at the mouth, choking on its spittle, furiously pecking away at the keyboard with its talons and getting its “jollies”, too.

    We should say a special prayer for our “christian” troll..yeah.

  30. #30 Chris
    July 28, 2011

    Off topic, and saw on another blog: The Troll Hunter. Apparently “trolls can detect the smell of a Christian’s blood.”

  31. #31 lilady
    July 28, 2011

    @ Chris: Hmm, how bad can The Troll Hunter be, if as the review states:

    “They flee back into the woods, where they hide as the troll smells after Christian blood. They return to Hans’ car, where they see the troll turn to stone.”

    I think I qualify as a troll hunter, being that I am christian and one-quarter Norwegian as well.

  32. #32 Anton P. Nym
    July 28, 2011

    For the squid-troll (and math geeks):

    0 < risk of medical error << risk of not treating illness

    Yes, there is a risk of medical error. However, that risk is vastly lower than the risk of staying home and thinking happy thoughts.

    (Disclaimer; part of my paycheque comes from a telephone triage service, so I’m a bit biased in favour of calling a service like that before heading in to an Emergency Department to see if there are other options. However, it’s better to head to ED if you’re worried than not.)

    — Steve

  33. #33 Anton P. Nym
    July 28, 2011

    Argh, system ate my less-than signs. Accursed HTML filters…

    The line starting with 0 should read:

    0 (less than) risk of medical error (less than) (less than) staying home

    *sigh*

    — Steve

  34. #34 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
    July 28, 2011

    Argh, system ate my less-than signs. Accursed HTML filters…

    APN: You have to refer to HTML signs rather than use them. You do that by using the code for them—”lt” for “lesser-than”, for example—and surround that with an ampersand and a semicolon. Thusly: &<; = <.

    You can quote any HTML tag by just doing that to the leading bracket, it doesn’t seem to care about the closing bracket. Oh, and if you preview what you did it’ll look right, but then when you hit post, it’ll revert. I know this from sad experience.

    (Oh, and this particular blog’s software won’t even show “lt”, it turns it into < anyway. Rassenfrassen…..)

  35. #35 ZDoggMD
    July 28, 2011

    Word up, @Augustine! This is one iatrogenic killa who enjoys your sarcastic style…represent! Now as a fellow purveyor of sarcasm, you should recognize that the ability to recognize said sarcasm is part and parcel of a reasonable human intelligence. Apparently Tenpenny lacks this ability (or perhaps the ability to read…or the ability to watch the video I posted). Fortunately for their health my many medicaid patients lack the idle affluence required to waste time listening to her drivel…and they certainly can’t afford her supplements and “educational” DVDs. West Siiiide!

  36. #36 René Najera
    July 28, 2011

    I happen to know that Dr. ZDogg’s Angie’s List ratings are quite high. Augustine, they’re there if you want to look him up. Shouldn’t be too hard, given how intelligent you are and all and stuff.

  37. #37 Homer 3D
    July 28, 2011

    Word up, @Augustine! This is one iatrogenic killa who enjoys your sarcastic style…represent! Now as a fellow purveyor of sarcasm, you should recognize that the ability to recognize said sarcasm is part and parcel of a reasonable human intelligence. Apparently Tenpenny lacks this ability (or perhaps the ability to read…or the ability to watch the video I posted). Fortunately for their health my many medicaid patients lack the idle affluence required to waste time listening to her drivel…and they certainly can’t afford her supplements and “educational” DVDs. West Siiiide!

    Exactly. BTW – I’m autistic and even I could tell right away that was sarcasm (though I did have the context ahead of time, so who knows).

  38. #38 augustine
    July 28, 2011

    Now as a fellow purveyor of sarcasm, you should recognize that the ability to recognize said sarcasm is part and parcel of a reasonable human intelligence.

    That’s not true. I’ve known plenty of nerds who didn’t get jokes or sarcasm. I’ve known many focused individuals to do the same. Their human intelligence was “reasonable”.
    Sorry, logic fail.

    Eastsiiide!

  39. It would be extremely easy to make a video from the other side of the fence.
    Like this: Person goes to their doctor with symptoms of irritability, spaciness, anxiety.
    Doctor with God-complex tries to give them some psychiatric drug.
    “No, I don’t think so”
    They go to the health food store. Mention their symptoms to someone, who says “Maybe you have a food allergy. Have you tried an elimination diet?”
    They do. oh my God, it works!!! They’re gluten intolerant and get sick from some non-gluten foods too, and the psychiatric/neurological symptoms go away when they take the foods out of their diet.
    Doctor goes home. Snaps at his wife when she asks him if he remembered to pick up bread and milk at the grocery store. He didn’t.
    Last panel: doctor’s big white paranoid eyes in the darkness.

    Don’t forget – or learn – that The Other Side Has A Point, Too.

  40. #40 Chris
    July 31, 2011

    Long google name, what did that little diatribe have to do with vaccines, pertussis and Tenpenny?

  41. #41 Snake Eyes
    August 1, 2011

    I could totally make that video. Except I think at the end the patient’s spouse, skeptical of how much it is costing the family to eat all these special foods that the health store manager keeps pushing on them, starts slipping the questionable ingredients back in to the person’s diet, and -surprise- the placebo effect continues to work.

    Meanwhile, the Doctor spends a few minutes in bed reasoning through the situation and recognizes that the research indicates that irritability, spaciness, and anxiety in the absence of specific gastointestinal complaints are not signs of gluten sensitivity or food allergy. He sleeps quite well after that.

  42. #42 Ronnie Libra
    December 17, 2011

    Just out of curiosity, how many of you are actually medical practitioners. I only ask that question because I have been on message boards where people flame and troll each other and it would be kind of funny to see a bunch of Doctors or Medical Professionals yelling at each other like people who play World of Warcraft ;)

    No offense….

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