Respectful Insolence

The “toxin gambit” on steroids

After having been saddened (and distracted, at least from a blog standpoint) by the death of Steve Jobs for the last few days, I think it’s time to get back to the normal sorts of stuff I blog about. Not that discussing medical issues related to celebrities in the news isn’t one of the normal sorts of things I blog about here, but I usually don’t do it for three or four days in a row. On the other hand, sometimes I do blog about vaccines several days in a row. Usually, these sorts of runs of vaccine blogging come about when a particularly idiotic confluence of anti-vaccine idiocy hits the news or the blogosphere from multiple sources.

Here’s just one such source. Whether it starts a run of vaccine blogging or not, I don’t know. It probably depends upon what the not-so-merry band of anti-vaccine propagandists over at Age of Autism write over the next couple of days. In the meantime, while I’m waiting for the inevitable barrage of misinformation and pseudoscience about breast cancer that is inevitable during October (which, for those not aware, is Breast Cancer Awareness Month), there is some real anti-vaccine idiocy to deal with that I just came across. Sadly, I didn’t come across it when it was first published a month and a half ago, but it’s such a classic example of anti-vaccine misinformation that it was inevitable that, sooner or later, I would find it. It’s at the Vaccine Resistance Movement (how’s that for truth in advertising?), and it’s entitled VRM: The Problem With Vaccines Part 4 – Primary Aspects of Vaccine Toxicity Affecting The Body.

Perhaps you remember a little anti-vaccine canard that I like to call the “toxin gambit“? Used by anti-vaccine apologists and propagandists as varied as J.B Handley, Dr. Jay Gordon, Mark Blaxill, Cynthia Janak, and many others. This article from the VRM is basically the “toxins gambit” on steroids. Don’t believe me? Get a load of this:

Vaccines, by their composite nature, inherently damage & disrupt the body’s delicate neurological network; hindering the complex functioning of the brain in maintaining all systems of operation (circulatory, digestive, endocrine, immune, lymphatic, muscular, nervous, reproductive, respiratory, skeletal, and urinary). In practical terms, a synergy factor inevitably occurs when multiple ingredients such as heavy metals, live viruses/or strands of DNA-RNA “heat treated virus”, antibiotics, formaldehyde, detergent, diploid cells (aborted fetal tissue), mycoplasma, phenol dye & excipient buffers are combined together in a vial mixture.

Obviously, I’ve dealt with the issue of formaldehyde, which is a natural byproduct of metabolism and which is present even in babies in amounts that make the tiny amount present at trace levels in vaccines seem tiny in comparison. Ditto detergents such as polysorbate-80. and I’ve definitely put the hurt on idiots who spread the lie that there is “aborted fetal tissue” in vaccines. Of course, my favorite example of pure blatant misinformation about vaccines, because it’s just so silly, is the claim that there’s dangerous DNA or RNA in them. This particular takes claims about all of these alleged “toxins” that aren’t but sound really, really scary if you don’t know anything about science or chemistry. I am amazed that the VRM managed to restrain itself from making the claim that there is “antifreeze” in vaccines, but whoever the brain trust is behind this group sure did cover all the other crank bases. Heavy metals? Yup. “Heat treated virus”? Never mind that that’s the antigen without which certain vaccines wouldn’t work. It’s what provokes the immune response that results in the protective effect of vaccines.

As I said, this represents the “toxins” gambit on steroids. Conveniently, the VRM claims that there is “synergistic” toxicity from all the ingredients in vaccines. What is this claim based on? Certainly no science, and certainly no evidence that is presented in this article. From a strictly pharmacological standpoint, it’s actually rather difficult to demonstrate synergy between two different drugs. To detect synergy due to three different drugs, it’s even harder. To detect synergy from numerous “toxins” is virtually impossible without some extremely sophisticated and tedious analyses, none of which Joel Lord, the author of this piece, has done. None of that stops him from rambling on deeper into the rabbit hole of anti-vaccine nonsense:

Once these toxins are injected into deep muscle tissue or subcutaneously (either route which literally bypasses one’s natural barriers altogether), a cascading degeneration known as Ischemia, a singing of the neural pathways from toxic overload which prevents vital oxygen from reaching the brain, literally inhibiting normal development, often occurs; resulting in a series of what are termed “microvascular strokes”, ‘as large white blood cells rush to attack the foreign particles injected into our bloodstream…surround tiny capillaries where the foreign particles land, clog and collapse the capillaries.’ The viscosity of this build up of “sludge” clogs/singes the vast network of arterial veins & capillaries leading to the brain while accumulating in the organs (ie. heart, liver, kidney), joints, meninges – 3 layers of protective tissue called the dura, arachnoid, & pia mater that surround the neuraxis (axial unpaired part of the central nervous system), intestines (gut area), along the neural pathways interlacing the entire body (resulting from “stagnant” blood). Anaphylaxis, a system-wide allergic & functional breakdown, described as ‘a severe, whole-body allergic reaction to a chemical that has become an allergen’, and Encephalitis, inflammation of the brain & meninges (Meningoencephalitis) manifesting as ‘diffuse and/or focal neuropsychological dysfunction’, inevitably follow.

Ah, yes. I recognized this particularly loony anti-vaccine lie. Do you? Does the name “Andrew Moulden” mean anything to you? It has been a while since I’ve written about him; so if you’ve only been reading this blog less than about three years, there’s no way you’d have heard of him, at least not here. Basically, he claims that somehow vaccines cause “microvascular strokes” and these “microvascular strokes” lead to autism. He made a name for himself in antivaccine circles with this “theory” pushed in videos with charming names like “Vaccine Holocaust” and whose ideas, such as they are, have resulted in quackery that has sucked in parents we know.

The rest of the article comes up with a bunch of ideas about how vaccines allegedly harm the body, either through the run-of-the-mill boring claims that vaccines somehow invoke autoimmune diseases (a contention for which there is no evidence) or through wilder “theories” that boil down to nothing more than “making it up as you go along.” Along the way, they cite anti-vacicne luminaries such as Russell Blaylock (who is, in fact, an all-purpose crank and supporter of quackery), Gary Tunsky, and even David “Black Helicopter” Ayoub. VRM takes aluminum, excipients, antibiotics, heavy metals, and, yes, the infamous polysorbate-80 and spins tales of “synergistic toxicity” using and abusing cherry picked studies in a manner that would make even AoA bloggers blush. Regular readers of this blog will have a lot of fun, a veritable field day, deconstructing the mountain of anti-vaccine misinformation contained in just this one article by VRM. There’s just so much there that it would be difficult to deconstruct even if I were to produce a longer-than-typical-Orac magnum opus. I suppose I could break this subject up into multiple parts and take on a few claims at a time over the course of several days, but, really, I’ve already addressed pretty much every claim in this VRM post before (some multiple times), and I’d have to be in the mood. Instead, I’ll just cherry pick the claims that amuse me the most or have the most educational value.

Well, maybe except one, which is why I wanted to close by citing it and then providing a bit of not-so-Respectful Insolence to it. Here is what VRM thinks is so horrible in vaccines:

Potassium Chloride: Used as part of a phosphate buffered saline in the shot. ‘The majority of the potassium chloride produced is used for making fertilizer, since the growth of many plants is limited by their potassium intake. As a chemical feedstock it is used for the manufacture of potassium hydroxide and potassium metal; and as a flux for the gas welding of aluminium. Hyperkalemia. May induce Cardiac arrest (especially in renal impairment or if administered too rapidly). May cause pain and thrombophlebitis if administered in high concentration into small veins in patients with cardiac disease, renal impairment, or acidosis: monitoring of acid-base balance, potassium levels, and ECG is recommended. Potassium chloride is also used as the third of a three-drug combination in lethal injection. Additionally, KCl (AN aqueous solution form of Potassium Chloride) is used, albeit rarely, in fetal intracardiac injections in second- and third-trimester induced abortions.’

Potassium chloride (i.e., KCl) is a form of salt. Potassium ion (K+). I do love how VRM has to mention that KCl is used largely for making fertilizer, to make it scarier. But it’s not just used to make any fertilizer. Oh, no. KCl is used to make chemical fertilizer. It can also cause cardiac arrest! And it’s used for lethal injections, too, as if there were enough KCl in vaccine buffers to cause cardiac arrest! And, above all, don’t forget that it’s used for abortions, too!

I chuckled heartily as I read the paragraph above. Rarely is such concentrated ignorance found in such a small passage.

So let’s see. So we have a vaccine ingredient that is used to execute murderers and do abortions. Is that the worst? Is that the vilest activity that DRM can ascribe to vaccine ingredients? Of course not! But how can lethal injection be topped? I think you know where this is going. There’s only one smear that goes beyond that, that tops them all. You knew it was coming, too, I bet. VRM’s talkin’ Nazis, baby:

Phenol: Highly toxic disinfectant dye, attributed to liver, kidney, heart & respiratory damage. ‘Phenol is so deadly that is was used by the Nazis as a means of extermination during the World War II. Phenol injections were given to thousands of people in concentration camps – especially at Auschwitz-Birkenau – to kill those who were mentally ill, had incurable tuberculosis and were permanently incapable of work.’

It is actually true that Nazis did use phenol as a means of extermination at concentration camps and death camps. However, VRM neglects to mention that what the Nazis used was a big syringe full of concentrated aqueous phenol. Basically, the Nazi physician or guard would draw up a syringe of the stuff and inject it directly into the prisoner’s heart. It was a horrible way to die, and thousands were killed this way during the Holocaust, including children. Moreover, the reason that Nazi doctors moved to use intracardiac injection was because intravenous injection was too slow to kill. Victims would linger for minutes, or even more than an hour. Directing the phenol directly into the heart was much faster.

Once again, what the clueless clods at VRM fail to acknowledge is that it’s the dose that makes the poison. The amount of phenol in vaccines is minuscule, in essence trace amounts. The amount of phenol used by Nazi physicians to kill involved gram quantities. By juxtaposing the trace amounts of phenol found in some vaccines with the use of phenol by the Nazis to execute prisoners, DRM is playing the Nazi card. It’s poisoning the well, pure and simple, painting phenol as a tool of evil as a prelude to implying that, because there is a little bit of phenol in some vaccines, vaccines are not just toxic but evil, once more putting the lie to denials by anti-vaccine propagandists that they are anti-vaccine. Of course phenol has a lot of other uses, and in fact it’s present in a lot of foods and drinks in measurable amounts. It’s often responsible for the taste of a number of foods and drinks. For example, there are phenol and phenolic compounds in wine, as well as foods such as tomatoes, chocolate, red grapes, milk, cheese, apples, and bananas (which also–gasp!–contain a lot of KCl).

Obviously, we must never eat these foods or drink red wine because they contain phenol, which the Nazis used to kill people. Thus these foods and red wine must be highly toxic and evil. At least, that’s where VRM’s argument takes you if carried through to its logical conclusion.

Rarely have I seen a more blatant invocation of the toxins gambit as this excretion of pure flaming stupid. I try to think of a more blatant example, an I have a hard time remembering one. I really should come up with some prizes to award “deserving” crank blogs such as this when they outdo themselves in promoting anti-science and pseudoscience.

Comments

  1. #1 Delurked
    October 11, 2011

    OMD a vaccine blog

    Is this the right room for a pointless argument?

  2. #2 herr doktor bimler
    October 11, 2011

    Once these toxins are injected into deep muscle tissue or subcutaneously (either route which literally bypasses one’s natural barriers altogether)

    We have no natural barriers against subcutaneous antigens because injuries that pierce the skin never occurred to any of our ancestors in the course of evolution.

  3. #3 herr doktor bimler
    October 11, 2011

    anti-vaccine apologists and propagandists as varied as J.B Handley, Dr. Jay Gordon, Mark Blaxill, Cynthia Janak, and many others.

    Big props to Anarchic Teapot for receiving an actual visit from Cynthia Janak to his blog, hoping for an argument about Gardasil.

    Janak blogs at RenewAmerica so her Cr*nk M*gnetism Bingo Card is pretty well filled in already, from AGW-denialism to “education = socialism” to “Evolution = conspiracy”, all wrapped up under the rubric of “Conservative Studies”. She even believes that fluoridation of water is an evil socialist / humanist conspiracy to pollute our bodily fluids, which might be more convincing if she didn’t consistently spell it “flouridate”. But it is the concept of a vaccine that might interfere with G*d’s intended punishment for sex that really grinds her gears.

  4. #4 Kathryn
    October 11, 2011

    Surely you’ve heard of the eeevils of Flour, and how Flouridated bread contains gluten? Gluten, that horrible toxin that can cause life-threatening reactions in people with celiac disease, therefore also for everyone else who’s just not hip enough to know the difference?

  5. #5 Ajax
    October 11, 2011

    @Kathryn

    Flouridated bread contains gluten

    Ouch. Hurt my bum reading that. :D

    At least in my 100% oxygen tank, nothing can kill me… 8]

  6. #6 MikeMa
    October 11, 2011

    A truly remarkable concentration of idiocy from Vaccine Resistance (Bowel) Movement. With that much varied, deadly toxin, how has anyone survived even a single dose of the dreaded vaccination horror? My heart continues to beat in spite of the onslaught from the KCl. My brain continues (arguably) to function. Joel Lord’s clearly does not.

  7. #7 Sarah
    October 11, 2011

    “Stagnant blood” eh? Hmm, perhaps it’s time for my little wriggly friends here. Or would you like me to raise some blisters on your back with a heated glass? Can’t have that blood standing still, can we? And bloodletting didn’t hurt Washington. Ok, he died, but it calmed him down, and we all have to die sometime.
    http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/2005_winter_spring/washingtons_death.htm
    I’m just waiting for someone with shares in a leech farm to revive bloodletting as the new woo. They might have to rebrand it a bit, but it is ‘natural’ (leeches enjoy it!), ‘organic’ (leeches are biodegradable!) and associated with ancient wisdom, Ayurveda and both the Western and Arabic medical traditions.
    After all, we’re still hearing about miasma.

  8. #8 MikeMa
    October 11, 2011

    @Kathryn
    FIFY: “The weevils of flour”.

    Makes as much sense as anything from VRM.

  9. #9 palindrom
    October 11, 2011

    The KCl is even worse than they think! A lot of that K is radioactive K-40, and everyone knows there’s no safe dose of radioactivity!

    I remember arguing with someone post-Fukushima who thought that all the radioactive elements in the environoment were from power reactors and bomb tests. K-40 is from stellar nucleosynthesis, and it has a half-life of over a billion years, so we still have a fair amount of it around. A lot of our basal metabolism involves pumping potassium around, so there’s no way to avoid having this — gulp — radioactive stuff circulating in our bodies!

    I think I’ll have another banana.

    On the flour thing, I’m reminded of Jack Aubrey in “Master and Commander”, and his crack about how one should choose the “Lesser of Two Weevils”.

  10. #10 MI Dawn
    October 11, 2011

    Personally, I love this play on words:

    In practical terms, a synergy factor inevitably occurs when multiple ingredients such as heavy metals, live viruses/or strands of DNA-RNA “heat treated virus”, antibiotics, formaldehyde, detergent, diploid cells (aborted fetal tissue), mycoplasma, phenol dye & excipient buffers are combined together in a vial mixture.

    Is that a “vial” mixture or a “vile” mixture?

  11. #11 Adam_Y
    October 11, 2011

    I was just working with Potassium Chloride the other day. Its harmless and out of all the chemicals in my laboratory it doesn’t even have a big giant X to denote danger.

  12. #12 Lenny
    October 11, 2011

    Brilliant post it is one of the best that I’ve seen, keep up the good work, thanks.

  13. #13 ruben
    October 11, 2011

    KCl is *not* harmless! Just a couple of days ago it caused a friend of mine several contusions. Though I guess he should have been careful storing those 50 Kg of KCl on the top shelf at the lab…

  14. #14 Krebiozen
    October 11, 2011

    I’m sure it’s possible to remove all that toxic potassium chloride from the blood with dialysis, or IV insulin, which sends it all into the cells where it can’t do any harm. Of course reducing potassium levels drastically does have some unfortunate side effects. Like death.

    I just made the mistake of watching a video of a talk by Gary Tunsky, in which he claimed that doctors didn’t know about germs in the 1920s so babies died thus lowering the average life expectancy, which was actually much higher then than it is now. He also suggested that all diseases are caused by cellular dysfunction and only differ in their location in the body, so gout and Parkinson’s are the same disease – he actually said this with his bare face hanging out. There is so much of this moronic idiocy around I despair sometimes…

  15. #15 Denice Walter
    October 11, 2011

    Funny but I seem to vaguely recall that supplement salesmen tout the incredible anti-oxidant qualities of phenols in foods like green tea, wine, fruits, vegetables, offering them either in isolated form or by turning the food into a powder.( -btw- powdered green tea? or a compound from wine? WHY?) Similarly, high K is used to compensate for the evils of high Na, which we all know is an integral part of A Junk Food Diet.

    I guess all is fair in love, war, and supplement ads.

  16. #16 Knightly Q. Blowguns
    October 11, 2011

    Well if the anti-vaccine argument is on steroids maybe I’ll eventually wilt away from hormone imbalances and bone death.

  17. #17 Knightly Q. Blowguns
    October 11, 2011

    I mean “it’ll.” Not “I’ll.” I hope that does not happen to me as that would be unfortunate and unpleasant.

  18. #18 Calli Arcale
    October 11, 2011

    WOW! That is some serious grade-A crazy in that article. Given how he describes the “inevitable” result of vaccination, there must be a massive conspiracy afoot to conceal the millions of deaths that must be occurring, since what he describes (collapsing capillaries) should be causing horrific death tolls due to thrombosis and such.

    Unless . . . oh my gosh! The conspiracy goes so much deeper than the anti-vaxxers had ever imagined! Since vaccination causes such horrific damage, and we’re not seeing people dropping like flies, we can’t possibly have the high vaccination rates claimed. Obviously people aren’t really getting vaccinated! If they say they are, they’re lying! They must be! 95% or more of Americans are actually in on the conspiracy!!!

  19. #19 Heliantus
    October 11, 2011

    ‘as large white blood cells rush to attack the foreign particles injected into our bloodstream…surround tiny capillaries where the foreign particles land, clog and collapse the capillaries

    Isn’t a rush of white blood cells also typically accompanied by inflammation, to, you know, increase the local flow of blood and lymphatic fluid?

    “scary paragraph about KCl”
    OK, never mind. Like wrestling a pig in the mud, except the pig believes itself to be a porcupine from Mars, and that it’s not mud, but quicksilver.

  20. #20 elburto
    October 11, 2011

    From the Godwin, to the ABORSHUN!, and the old “used in execution” gambit, you can really see how Poe’s Law came about.

    My science gland is aching from the sheer, blatant idiocy. And now I can’t even have a banana to cheer me up, because Nazis used one of their ingredients in Auschwitz-B*, they’re radioactive, and contain fertiliser.

    *I have a special hatred for people who try and associate vaccines with the things that went on in Block 10. It almost makes me wish I still believed in a fiery eternal Hell.

  21. #21 Allie
    October 11, 2011

    My one year old got FOUR — count ‘em — vaccines last week, including the dreaded MMR. And you know what? The anti vaccine people were right. She has undergone remarkable changes since then, including:

    * She got this new giant white, jagged protrusion in the back of her mouth. It appears to be causing her a great deal of pain as it breaks through her gums.
    * She started bouncing constantly on the couch cushions. I keep telling her to stop it, but she isn’t listening. It’s like she can’t control it, and she makes these crazy laughing sounds whenever she does it.
    * Her balance has altered. Now she can stand on her own, without hanging onto anything.

    Very suspicious, I say.

  22. #22 Edith Prickly
    October 11, 2011

    Funny but I seem to vaguely recall that supplement salesmen tout the incredible anti-oxidant qualities of phenols in foods like green tea, wine, fruits, vegetables, offering them either in isolated form or by turning the food into a powder.( -btw- powdered green tea? or a compound from wine? WHY?)

    You know how woo-logic works, Denice. Chemicals are only dangerous when they’re in vaccines, because VACCINES ARE EVIL. Supplements are always good and can’t ever hurt you, even when your manufacturer accidentally puts in 1,000 times the amount of vitamin D they’re supposed to contain.

    It’s the same way water only has memory when it’s used for homeopathy and non-homeopathic water has amnesia.

  23. #23 Amy
    October 11, 2011

    Keep telling yourself vaccines are safe. This is the same mindset that believed smoking cigarettes wasn t harmful in the 50’s…Its all based on junk science…one day a generation is going to look back at us and say what were they thinking? (There isnt one shred of good science backing vaccines)

  24. #24 Lawrence
    October 11, 2011

    Wow Amy – that’s a whole mess of stupid right there…..given that vaccines have an over 100 year history of use & a 99%+ reduction in vaccine-preventable diseases (including the eradication of smallpox), you are a complete moron.

  25. #25 Todd W.
    October 11, 2011

    @Amy

    Except that scientists knew that cigarettes were harmful in the 1950s. It was popular media and cigarette makers that played up the not harmful image.

    Kinda like today, scientists know vaccines don’t cause autism (or at the very least, are extremely unlikely to play any causative role), while propagandist groups like AoA and SafeMINDS promote the “vaccines are harmful” image. Popular media is starting to get it, so we are seeing more and more science-based articles.

    BTW, I’d like to see a “shred” of good evidence that shows vaccines are the monumental evils you appear to think they are.

  26. #26 Liz
    October 11, 2011

    @Allie

    OMG!! The exact same thing happened to my one-year-old after she got 4 vaccines.

    Except her symptoms also include this insatiable urge to climb everything … the stairs, the chair, and the table. I think it might be “MMR-induced Climbing Cause Ican Disease.” I might need to look into this … lol

  27. #27 imr90
    October 11, 2011

    And what about dihydrogen monoxide? It’s in the cocktail used for lethal injection, it was used by the Nazis, and it’s in vaccines! Millions of people die each year from accidental inhalation of DHMO!

  28. #28 Militant Agnostic
    October 11, 2011

    Callie @18

    Unless . . . oh my gosh! The conspiracy goes so much deeper than the anti-vaxxers had ever imagined! Since vaccination causes such horrific damage, and we’re not seeing people dropping like flies, we can’t possibly have the high vaccination rates claimed. Obviously people aren’t really getting vaccinated! If they say they are, they’re lying! They must be! 95% or more of Americans are actually in on the conspiracy!!!

    Now that you are wearing your tinfoil hat shiny side in you can finally see the truth. Contrary to what THEY tell you it does make a difference which way the shiny side faces.

  29. #29 novalox
    October 11, 2011

    @amy

    Citation needed, or you are just a troll talking the usual idiotic bull.

  30. #30 Dangerous Bacon
    October 11, 2011

    “Keep telling yourself vaccines are safe. This is the same mindset that believed smoking cigarettes wasn t harmful in the 50’s…”

    Amy might have the answer there to the argument that injecting vaccines causes them to bypass “the body’s natural defenses”, causing all manner of harm. Obviously, the answer is to have people smoke the vaccines. That way, the tonsils and respiratory tract can properly process vaccine antigens, as well as filtering out the fetal parts, formaldehyde, antifreeze, detergent and monkey pus that otherwise goes straight into the bloodstream, races through the blood-brain barrier and does incalculable mischief.

    Thanks, Amy!

  31. #31 Lisa
    October 11, 2011

    I have to keep watching this one just to see if Amy is a one-hit wonder!

    It is incredibly difficult to argue with a truly woo-loving human being. I’m married to one and I started to tell him about the study about the Gonzales protocol that was discussed the other day and he immediately launched into a rant. It was honestly the behavioral equivalent of putting hands over ears and yelling “I’m not listening!” repeatedly.

    There is this mysterious, uncited “They” that know everything and assure partakers of woo that the world is a terrible evil place where an unseen management force called “the New World Order” is out to reduce the population by more than 80% and that many of the things discussed, including vaccine injury, are actually fine-tuning to reduce population through early death and sterilization.

    I keep wondering how in the world such a group, hellbent on having the most for themselves, could ever cooperate and trust each other enough to get anything done in the first place? That just doesn’t make sense when you consider human behavior.

  32. #32 OrchidGrowinMan
    October 11, 2011

    OH… MY… GOD… (or whoever)…

    I just sprayed PHENOL in my mouth!
    (The bottle said it would relieve my sore throat.)

    Am I a Nazi now? Am I going to die? Turn into a zombie? Are the Chloraseptic(R) people Nazis? Was Joseph Lister a Nazi? After all, he invented Listeria, didn’t he? (Those damn “scientists” have never done anything good in the world!) What about Listerine(tm)? It’s named after that Nazi Lister guy, so it must ne made by Nazis too, and so it must be deadly too.

  33. #33 palindrom
    October 11, 2011

    Allie @20. Enjoy your child’s development! But be on the lookout for this:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/more-us-children-being-diagnosed-with-youthful-ten,248/

  34. #34 Th1Th2
    October 11, 2011

    1.

    We have no natural barriers against subcutaneous antigens because injuries that pierce the skin never occurred to any of our ancestors in the course of evolution.

    2.

    Obviously, the answer is to have people smoke the vaccines. That way, the tonsils and respiratory tract can properly process vaccine antigens, as well as filtering out the fetal parts, formaldehyde, antifreeze, detergent and monkey pus that otherwise goes straight into the bloodstream, races through the blood-brain barrier and does incalculable mischief.

    Ahhh…uhmmm… straw man gambit Orac-style.

  35. #35 Militant Agnostic
    October 11, 2011

    lisa @29

    I keep wondering how in the world such a group, hellbent on having the most for themselves, could ever cooperate and trust each other enough to get anything done in the first place? That just doesn’t make sense when you consider human behavior.

    You would think that any organization competent enough to manage such a vast conspiracy would be a little better at actually killing people and actually making a dent in worlds population. Hows that been working out for THEM lately?

    lisa – I know what you have to put up with although it sounds a lot worse in your case.

  36. #36 Queen Khentkawes
    October 11, 2011

    Uh, Amy? Thomas Jefferson (who hated doctors) was inoculated against smallpox, and later on favored the use of the cow pox vaccine in the United States. [courtesy of monticello dot org]

    Just sayin’.

  37. #37 Denice Walter
    October 11, 2011

    @ Edith Prickly:

    If woo logic really worked, think how rich the woo-meisters would be getting ( 10 million USD per annum would be piddling in comparison):
    if there were *really* medical “sensitives” ( a la Edgar Cayce) they would eliminate the need for CAT,PET,MRI..
    if homeopathy *worked*, you could dilute a more expensive liquid ( like gin or brake fluid) many times and sell the stronger product for top dollar!
    Similarly, if precognition were real wouldn’t the gifted control the markets?

    In reality, none of this works: people who make money in the markets are lucky or use old fashioned *cognition* to figure out what will sell.
    Woo-meisters have no special insight into reality but know how to trick marks like there’s no tomorrow. A special talent for sure.

  38. #38 Sauceress
    October 11, 2011

    They forgot the latex-autism connection. You know… because vaccine vials…traces of latex…condoms made of latex… soooooo…
    da vaccines haz condoms in dem!!111!

  39. #39 notdrew
    October 11, 2011

    Merck hepatitis B vaccines, deposition of pathological deposits of proteins and toxins in the ECM following routine vaccinations which lead to autoimmune inflammatory illnesses, WHO distributed vaccines containing hCG, Thimerosal, the CDC injecting more than 1500 sixth-month-old Black and Hispanic babies in L.A. with a “high-potency EZ measles vaccine”,recipients of polio vaccine SV40 pass on illness or premature death to unvaccinated children,Squalene, Finnish government paying for lifetime medical care for children diagnosed with narcolepsy after receiving swine flu vaccine………such quackery.

  40. #40 Antaeus Feldspar
    October 11, 2011

    Ahhh…uhmmm… straw man gambit Orac-style.

    No, just sarcasm.

  41. #41 lilady
    October 11, 2011

    @ Sauceress: Well I can handle the injections of latex, flouride/fluoride, mercury/thimerisol, formaldyde/brake fluid, gelatin/Jello, fetal cell lines/aborted babies in vaccines…but I am highly allergic to aluminum window frames, cooking utensils and beach chairs. Thank goodness there is no aluminum in any of the vaccines.

  42. #42 Krebiozen
    October 11, 2011

    notdrew,
    Did you feed whale.to into a random paragraph generator?

  43. #43 lilady
    October 11, 2011

    Someone must have slipped some aluminum in one of the vaccines I received and I am slipping into Alzheimer disease…or I didn’t have spell check on.

    ***FORMALDEHYDE***

  44. #44 Antaeus Feldspar
    October 11, 2011

    notdrew, would you like some dressing for that word salad? Seriously, if you thought what you posted was communicating some form of comprehensible thought to your readers… you were wrong.

  45. #45 CG
    October 11, 2011

    Ahhh…uhmmm… straw man gambit Orac-style.

    It’s called a joke Thingy. Run along and play now.

  46. #46 Militant Agnostic
    October 11, 2011

    Denice Walter

    if homeopathy *worked*, you could dilute a more expensive liquid ( like gin or brake fluid) many times and sell the stronger product for top dollar!

    I have to wonder what the effect of a homeopathic brake fluid would be. Would it reverse the second law of thermodynamics and result in your brake disks becoming cooler while causing your cat to accelerate? This might not be a good idea.

  47. #47 lilady
    October 11, 2011

    Troll Alert!!! Let’s all sit back back and derive some perverse pleasures when the delusional troll is ignored completely.

    @notdrew: I am the undisputed Queen Of The Run-On Sentences on this blog. There is room however for World Salad Posting honors.

    Do you want a double bacon cheeseburger and fries with your order?

  48. #48 Sauceress
    October 11, 2011

    lilady

    Well I can handle the injections of latex, flouride/fluoride…

    Not me. I really detest those injections of flouride. Makes me swell up terribly…especially on a really hot day.

  49. #49 Saucerss
    October 11, 2011

    …result in your brake disks becoming cooler while causing your cat to accelerate? This might not be a good idea.

    Well my neighbour’s cat could use a little extra acceleration when I’m pulling into my driveway. I’m sure one day that it’s inability to efficiently accelerate out of the way will be the death of it.

  50. #50 lilady
    October 11, 2011

    “Would it reverse the second law of thermodynamics and result in your brake disks becoming cooler while causing your cat to accelerate? This might not be a good idea.”

    I’m way ahead of you Militant Agnostic…my 25 year old arthritic CAT can outrace your tabby. (sorry…it was irresistible)

    @ Sauceress: It’s not the flouride that I bake with..it’s the aluminum cake pan that causes my bloat.

  51. #51 brian
    October 11, 2011

    When you wonder why people might support the anti-vax meme, you should remember that people differ in their knowledge and their ability.

    For example, a couple had to be rescued from a Massachusetts corn maize today; they called 911 because they couldn’t find their way out.

  52. #52 lilady
    October 11, 2011

    @ brian: Yes, people definitely differ in their knowledge and ability. What is so irksome to me however, is the habit of confabulation to “cover” for a a lack of knowledge and confabulation to relate the onset of autism occurring after immunizations.

    You will never see me posting about physics or any topic that I don’t have knowledge about…I know my limits of knowledge of those subjects. I also know that others here would quickly disabuse me if I try to “bluff it”.

    Now the “journalists” at anti-vax sites don’t confabulate…they are liars. The posters at those sites are the ones who confabulate and are never called out about their ignorance.

    That is the difference between science-based blogs and anti-vax blogs.

  53. #53 evilDoug
    October 12, 2011

    It is clear that the author of the VRM article has neither writing skills nor even the most rudimentary knowledge of chemistry. On the plus side, it would seem his arms are too short to reach the upper case as often as some kooks do.

    His copypasta is so bad that it contains two different spellings of the same word (aluminum and aluminium). Chunks are copied directly from Wikipedia (or is that Wikipœdia?).
    “KCl (AN aqueous solution form of Potassium Chloride)” demonstrates that he doesn’t even know that KCl is chemical symbols, not some special form of muriate of potash.
    “Phenol: Highly toxic disinfectant dye” Huh?! Phenol is not a dye. Might it be that a dye such phenol red is used to tint some vaccines, he has picked up on that, and again is too ignorant to know that it isn’t synonymous with phenol? (anyone know if phenol red is still used in renal function tests?)
    I had a brief look at the full article. I kind of feel like I need to soak my computer in formaldehyde, then autoclave it for a day or two, just to kill the stupid before it can spread.

  54. #54 evilDoug
    October 12, 2011

    I forgot to mention:
    “Stagnant blood” reminded me of the dimwit knacker man in All Creatures Great and Small, who diagnosed every dead animal as having expired from “stagnation at lung”.

  55. #55 lilady
    October 12, 2011

    There’s a press release on the Sane Vax website about Dr. Sin Hang Lee…who if you recall has “developed” a PCR test to detect the presence of HPV rDNA in Gardasil vaccine:

    Oh no! There’s DNA in my Gardasil! Or is there? (RI September 6, 2011)

    It seems that one year ago Milford Hospital notified Dr. Lee that his privileges at the hospital will be not renewed. He naturally is “appealing” this decision because he will be stuck “practicing” only in the boutique specialty lab down the road which he owns and operates, and where he does a booming mail order business to test for presence of HPV rDNA in the serum of young girls who have Gardasil-induced injuries.

    His supporters at SaneVax and at AoA are organizing a letter writing campaign directed at politicians and Connecticut’s governor and State attorney-general to assist this brave researcher who is being persecuted by the hospital, Big Pharma and other co-conspirators.

    Why do these anti-vax sites chose these brave intrepid doctors and researchers and call them heroes? Moreover, why do they continue to lionize the likes of Wakefield, the Geiers and Lee? It would seem to me that any doctor would stay clear of these sites because their approvals is the kiss of death for a licensed practitioner.

  56. #56 Denice Walter
    October 12, 2011

    @ lilady:

    Like I said recently some people are looking for miracles and charlatans in search of fame and money are only too eager to comply. If we surmise that people do things based on logic, reason, and appropriateness, we’ll be disappointed a great deal of the time.

  57. #57 Edith Prickly
    October 12, 2011

    @Denice

    Woo-meisters have no special insight into reality but know how to trick marks like there’s no tomorrow. A special talent for sure.

    So true. I often lament that if I could only rid myself of the troublesome scruples that prevent me from using paranoia and pseudoscience to manipulate the worried well into believing that doctors are out to get them and sell them my own nonsensical “treatments” instead, I’d be rich enough to have the rest of my conscience surgically removed — in preparation for when my marks develop real illnesses and keep coming to me instead of seeking proper medical assistance.

    However, despite my best efforts I continue to be plagued with an active conscience and even homeopathic whiskey and soda won’t make it go away…

  58. #58 dedicated lurker
    October 13, 2011

    Doug, he actually had four diagnoses: stagnation of the lungs, black rot, gastric ulcers, and golf stones.

  59. #59 JJ
    October 14, 2011

    OT,
    RE:Phenol – Aren’t there many types of Phenols? Phenols are a really big player in the taste (or lack thereof) of beer. Phenols are a byproduct of fermentation along with esters. Often times we intentionally try to reduce phenolic flavors by a)ensuring purity of out yeast culture through sterilization, b)maintaining constant temperature during the fermentation process. Some beer, on the other hand, is characterized by pheolic flavors, most notably Belgian brews. Clove-like flavors is one of distinctive properties of phenols being present.

    Often times phenols combine with Chlorine to form chlorophenols, which result in what we call the “band-aid” flavor. Tends to have what is described as plastic-y or “medicinal” flavor. Oddly, I’ve had this happen and when you take a sip, you really taste a band-aid. I’ve never actually tasted a band-aid, but somehow, that’s the flavor you get.
    /OT

  60. #60 WMDKitty
    October 17, 2011

    @Delurker (#1)

    Argument is down the hall, right across from Abuse.

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