The nearest major airport to me happens to be a Delta Airlines hub. Consequently, nine times out of ten, whenever I have to fly anywhere I’m usually stuck using Delta Airlines. It’s actually not too bad, as major airlines go, better than some but about the same as most. Unfortunately, during the month of November, Delta’s in-flight entertainment will leave much to be desired. The reason? Apparently, not satisfied with renting the CBS JumboTron in Times Square last year, this year the highly Orwellian-named National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) somehow slithered their way into the in flight entertainment on Delta Airlines in the form of this video, for which, unfortunately, embedding is disabled, as are comments. (So leave your comments here.)

Notice how it starts out as seemingly a normal PSA about how to avoid the flu. It includes sensible recommendations, such as frequent hand washing, covering your mouth when you cough or sneeze, eating a nutritious diet, and getting enough exercise. The first signs of trouble occur when the announcer claims that vitamin C can prevent the flu (the evidence for this claim is, to put it charitably, very shaky at best), but the real trouble doesn’t really arrive until, cleverly on the part of the NVIC, until the last third or so of the video, when the announcer chirps, “Getting a flu shot is another option.” Then, while the announcer keeps chirping seemingly reasonable information about reading the package insert and urging viewers to ask their doctor about the risks and benefits of the flu vaccine, the camera focuses on pictures of the NVIC website, including images of headlines like “Mercury in vaccines” and “Aluminum in vaccines, as the announcer touts “different ways to stay healthy,” the obvious implication is “different than the flu vaccine.” The video concludes with a shot of anti-vaccine grande dame Barbara Loe Fisher telling the audience:

Become an informed health care consumer. It’s about your health, your family, your choice.

I agree. It is about your health, your family, and your choice, which is why you should avoid the mass of misinformation that is the NVIC website.

This is a classic version of what I like to call “misinformed consent.” Anti-vaccine propagandists like Barbara Loe Fisher are clever in that they have finally apparently realized that a straight anti-vaccine message is a PR loser (not to mention that responsible corporations won’t air a straight anti-vaccine message); so they don’t include anything as blatant as what’s on their website in their PSAs anymore. Instead, the take a page from the “health freedom” movement and use rhetoric like what’s in this video. If you didn’t know that the NVIC is the oldest and one of the most influential groups in the modern anti-vaccine movement, the video would appear to be just another health-oriented PSA. Most viewers wouldn’t realize it, either. If, however, out of curiosity they happen to type “nvic.org” into their browser they will be confronted with slick anti-vaccine propaganda wrapped in the same deceptive rhetoric about “your choice,” including a highly deceptive “vaccine ingredient calculator,” a fetid load of misinformation about the recent Institute of Medicine report on adverse reactions due to vaccines, the Vaccine Freedom Wall (dedicated to supposed “repression” and “abuse” anti-vaccine parents have experienced for refusing to vaccinate), and the worst of the worst, NVIC’s International Memorial for Vaccine Victims, which implies that vaccines are dangerous and have injured or killed many children, an utter lie. As I’ve said many times before, we’re all for informed consent and personal choice, but both have to be based on accurate information, science, and correct estimates of the risk-benefit ratios of the intervention being recommended.

Indeed, the NVIC specializes intentionally on misinformed consent, in which risks of vaccines are exaggerated far beyond what any science can support and when there aren’t enough risks to suit the NVIC’s taste they show no compunction about promoting imaginary, fantastical, and outright false risks, such as the claim that vaccines cause autism. The only difference this year is that the NVIC, apparently stung by the slapdown administered by the blogosphere and the American Academy of Pediatrics over its JumboTron ad earlier this year, has disguised its anti-vaccine agenda even more effectively, leaving the frankly anti-vaccine information to its website, which its Delta Airlines PSA urges viewers to visit.

And then there’s the reason they’re doing it. It turns out that I had forgotten. Apparently this week is Vaccine Awareness Week (VAW), a joint “effort” by Barbara Loe Fisher with the NVIC and Joe Mercola:

It’s rather interesting how nowhere in the video is Mercola.com mentioned. Mercola is, however, mentioned in various posts on the NVIC and Mercola.com websites. Be that as it may, the NVIC has, once again, clearly teamed with the quackery-promoting Mercola.com website, to pick the last week of October/first week of November to spread misinformation about vaccines by any means they can. (I really wish these anti-vaccine loon groups would get together and settle on just one crank “vaccine awareness week” or month. I can’t keep them all straight, kind of like the way I can’t keep the various homeopathy awareness weeks straight.) You’ll forgive me for having forgotten all about it; it just didn’t register to me until it was already halfway over, so much of the “same ol’ same ol'” has it been. As part of his “celebration” of VAW, Joe Mercola is also streaming an anti-vaccine movie, The Greater Good (link to the video on Vimeo here), which I, as your humble blogger, will try to watch and review, although I don’t know whether I’ll manage to do it before the end of VIAW or whether I’ll post the review here or on my other blogging location. After all, even the mighty Orac can only withstand so much concentrated anti-vaccine nonsense at one time. (Yes, I have already sampled several minutes of the movie; so I know of what I speak.)

In the second year of Mercola’s and the NVIC’s intelligence-insulting “Vaccine Awareness Week,” it looks as though they’ve decided to try to move up the time frame of their attempts to reach the general public with their anti-vaccine propaganda. Last year, during the VAW, Mercola and the NVIC posted the same anti-vaccine nonsense that they usually post, only more of it. The NVIC then followed VAW up by buying pre-movie ad space during the Thanksgiving holiday weekend last year in AMC Theaters to air an anti-vaccine PSA, resulting in skeptical activism and pushback against it. Then, a few months later, the NVIC bought ad time on the CBS JumboTron in Times Square for a very brief ad for the NVIC. Now, the NVIC has gotten even more clever at disguising its anti-vaccine message by wrapping it a seemingly normal health PSA that is in reality an ad for the NVIC and the anti-vaccine message on its website. And the NVIC does it all without actually attacking the flu vaccine directly, instead relying on its PSA being in essence an advertisement for its website. The “Vaccine Awareness” that the NVIC promotes is, as is typical of an anti-vaccine organization, only negative awareness.

All of which is why it looks like it’s time for a bit of skeptical activism again, this time to educate the relevant officials at Delta Airlines. In the meantime, I’ll also keep an eye on what Mercola and Fisher are up to for the rest of this “Vaccine Awareness Week,” realizing that the only “awareness” of vaccines they promote is misinformed awareness.

ADDENDUM: Leave it to Elyse to get the ball rolling with a petition at Change.org. Also, she’s provided a handy-dandy list of contacts at Delta Airlines and its video provider. I have to wonder whether complaints are already having an effect. It’s been pointed out to me that the video has been taken down by the user at YouTube; I note that the video was not hosted at the NVIC’s YouTube channel, but rather at the In-Flight Media Associates YouTube channel. That’s the company providing Delta’s video content.

Comments

  1. #1 David N. Brown
    November 5, 2011

    @168:
    “Although most fire marshals I deposed couldn’t define kindling temperature, Sid brought Fire Science to new lows. Homeopathy? He must have slept through his general chem requirement while studying Fire Science.”

    Let’s see… Homeopathic remedies are water, water puts out fire. So, “fire science” seems like a far more reasonable application than medicine.

  2. #2 Chris
    November 5, 2011

    Ms. Duchon:

    I would not advise anyone to not get vaccinated-my grandchildren are.

    Then please tell us why you post comments like:

    If only you and lilady had more compassion for vaccine injured children

    I asked you to tell us what evidence you had that they were “vaccine injured.” Please post the journal, title, date and authors of the papers telling us all about how there are more children injured by vaccines than by the real diseases. Having a child injured by an actual disease, this is of great interest to me. Thank you in advance.

  3. #3 Narad
    November 5, 2011

    If only you and lilady had more compassion for vaccine injured children and the concern of parents who aren’t so sure about the genetics, auto-immune issues that their children might have with the current vaccine schedule I wouldn’t be calling you fascists which can also mean authoritarian….

    I rather doubt the latter bit, but go ahead: what test do you propose in order to rule out these “issues”?

    parents should have the choice to do what they think best for their children without being bullied

    Define “bullied.”

  4. #4 Chris
    November 5, 2011

    Hmmm, “bullied.” Well, let me see:

    I’ve actually been told by those who blame vaccines that due to my son’s issues with seizures and a genetic heart condition that it is okay that he be injured or killed by a vaccine preventable disease. They call it “natural selection.”

    And I have also been called dangerous because I insist on real evidence that vaccines cause more harm than the diseases instead of anecdotes.

    And on a listserv I used to be on for my son’s disability someone tried to have me kicked off because I had to audacity to write a message that the MMR vaccine has never contained thimerosal.

    Or does that not qualify for being “bullied”, Laura? Should I just ignore the falsehoods being perpetuated because you don’t like my attitude? The attitude of a mother who had to protect her medically fragile baby from a disease that was circulating in my county due to the fearmongering by Barbara Loe Fisher and friends.

    By the way, I have a comment in moderation. In it I explained about what is leftover from a pound of alum sitting on my kitchen counter. I also noted that alum has been used various things since ancient time, and there really should be no irrational fear about. I used it as a dye mordant, and it has been used in food, water clarification and other things for centuries.

  5. #5 T-reg
    November 5, 2011

    @Laura: The information that Dr. sears starts with is regarding the toxic dose of aluminum for those individuals with impaired kidney function or immature kidneys. Then he makes a generalization saying that thus aluminum at that dose is toxic to everyone. No mention of kidney function after that.

    Again, the toxic dose that is mentioned is not about a single administration. Rather, it is about serial administration over several days. A vaccine is not administered over consecutive days. It is administered at intervals ranging in weeks to months. That interval maybe enough for the body to clear the aluminum from the system. He makes no mention of any observations contrary to this.

    Again, the studies he quotes speaks of IV administration where the aluminum directly enters the blood. Parenteral vaccines are administered subcutaneously, intra dermal and Intra muscular. From here the vaccine constituents are slowly absorbed into the blood stream. He makes no mention of the rate at which this happens. The rate of absorption maybe too slow to cause toxic accumulation of aluminum.

    Again, the toxic dose he mentions is in terms of mcg/Kg body weight. He then takes the birth weight of the infant and calculates the toxic dose (which has to be administered over several days, IV) disregarding the fact that the weight of the baby increases as he/she grows and as such the absolute toxic dose also increases i.e. the threshold for toxicity should also increase. This is important considering that the child receives vaccine doses at intervals ranging from weeks to months during which the weight increases significantly (the weight usually doubles by 5 months in the subcontinent with its poorer standards of hygiene and nutrition).

    There are too many holes in Dr. Sears’ reasoning about aluminum toxicity through vaccination. He also does not cite any definite and properly conducted study on vaccination in support of his claims.

  6. #6 T-reg
    November 5, 2011

    @Laura:

    The flaws in Dr. Sears arguments are:
    1. He provides toxicity data based on individuals with renal impairment or immature kidneys and then makes a generalization and applies it to everyone.

    2. The data talks about cummulative toxicity but for the most part he mentions the toxic dose as if it causes toxicity in a single dose.

    3. The study was based on daily infusions of solutions containing aluminum. Vaccine administration, on the other hand is not on a daily basis. The dosing intervals are in the range of weeks to months. This may provide adequate time for the aluminum to be cleared from the system or atleast the levels to reduce enough to not have a cummulative effect with the next dose. He provides no evidence that this does not happen.

    4. The route of administration in the study cited was IV. Parenterally administered vaccines are administered Sub Cutaneous / Intra Dermal / Intra Muscular. The vaccine constituents do not directly enter the blood stream. They are slowly absorbed from the site. He does not mention how the rate of absorption correlates with the toxicity levels.

    5. The toxic dose he mentions is in terms of mcg/Kg body weight. He only correlates this with the toxic dose in a newborn. Considering that babies grow over time and this growth is significant considering the dosing intervals in vaccination, the absolute toxic dose also varies significantly in the time frame that we are talking about.

    6. He does not cite any concrete study which directly correlates with the alleged toxicity with vaccine administration.

  7. #7 T-reg
    November 5, 2011

    @chris: excellent article at science-based-medicine-dot-org. Thank you for the link.

  8. #8 lilady
    November 5, 2011

    “Our” laura is a shill for the NVIC. From the NVIC Facebook:

    “Laura Duchon Too many vaccinations in too short a time will overwhelm many children- the facts speak for themselves! The first 2 years of life are critical for brain development-see this video http://t.co/iM1hChL

    June 5 at 6:31pm”

    (The video is Part 1 of 14-Dr. Blaylock and the vaccine-autism link)

  9. #9 T-reg
    November 5, 2011

    Sorry for the multiple posts, was having connection issues.

  10. #10 David N. Brown
    November 5, 2011

    @204:
    “I’ve actually been told by those who blame vaccines that due to my son’s issues with seizures and a genetic heart condition that it is okay that he be injured or killed by a vaccine preventable disease. They call it “natural selection.””

    That strikes me as a scientifically informed and intellectually honest argument. More than can be said for the usual shrieks of “icky in vaccines!”, “too many too soon!!”, “metal in most common minerals on earth (including mud) is deadly toxin”, etc, etc, etc.

  11. #11 herr doktor bimler
    November 5, 2011

    So how much elemental phosphorous can you eat without, you know…dying? Is it more than the amount of metallic mercury you could eat?

    You should certainly worry about organic mercury compounds, which obviously goes to show that carbon is the most lethal element of all. What are cyanide and tetrodotoxin, if not carbon with some other elements?

    In terms of *elemental* poisons, mercury is`worth avoiding — with inhaling the vapour being worse than swallowing it — but it hardly begins to compare with polonium or phosphorous or umpteen others.

  12. #12 Chris
    November 5, 2011

    David N. Brown:

    That strikes me as a scientifically informed and intellectually honest argument.

    Well, not really. It is endorsing eugenics, which is not a good thing. Plus it is often after the argument that children are more affected by vaccines, and the diseases are not dangerous.

    To which I often ask, why would a child who is affected by vaccines fare any better with the real disease?

  13. #13 lilady
    November 5, 2011

    “To which I often ask, why would a child who is affected by vaccines fare any better with the real disease?”

    But Chris…There are tens/hundreds of thousands of kids with autism who are vaccine damaged…according to “laura”. See the link that she provides to Dr. Blaylock from her posting on the NVIC Facebook page.

    I really think she is in the throes of some sort of dementia, as she repeatedly and blatantly links to pseudoscience websites. Even when the fallacy of her arguments are pointed out to her, she returns to the same links, re-argues them…and then resorts to name calling.

    Does she still claim to not be anti-vaccination…after the many months of posting her inanities here?

  14. #14 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 5, 2011
    That strikes me as a scientifically informed and intellectually honest argument.

    Well, not really. It is endorsing eugenics, which is not a good thing. Plus it is often after the argument that children are more affected by vaccines, and the diseases are not dangerous.

    I think what David was trying to say was that there are two different realms where an argument can be deficient: the realm of facts and logic, or the realm of civilized values. (Many arguments by anti-vaxxers are deficient in both realms at once, of course.) “I should kill that funny-looking guy because he’s probably a warlock whose evil eye is hexing us all” is an argument deficient in facts and logic; “I should kill that funny-looking guy because I could probably get away with it and then anything good he’s carrying will belong to me” is ostensibly sound as far as facts and logic, but of course it’s utterly depraved as far as values.

    The “natural selection” argument, while it’s abhorrent and selfish in terms of values, is at least not as blatantly deficient in facts and logic as, for example, all “thimerosal in the MMR vaccine” arguments. As Chris correctly points out, the argument is basically eugenics, and there’s a strong argument to be made that eugenic arguments have themelves been proven deficient in logic – but the arguments we hear from anti-vaxxers are so uniformly wretched that even being subtly rather than blatantly deficient in facts and logic is enough to distinguish an anti-vax argument from the crowd.

  15. #15 laura
    November 5, 2011

    @T-reg
    This is what Dr. Sears is concerned about…
    “As a medical doctor, my first instinct is to worry that these aluminum levels far exceed what may be safe for young babies. But then my second instinct is to assume that this issue has been researched and that studies have been done on healthy infants to determine their ability to excrete aluminum rapidly. My third instinct is to go looking for these studies, and so far I have not been able to find any. It is likely that the FDA feels the kidneys of healthy infants work well enough to excrete this aluminum rapidly before it can circulate through the body, accumulate in the brain, and cause toxic effects. However, I can’t find any references in the FDA documents that show that using aluminum in vaccines has been tested in human infants and found to be safe. “

  16. #16 laura
    November 5, 2011

    @T-reg
    He further states-
    “But that is the main point of this entire section. No one has ever measured the levels of aluminum absorption into the bloodstream, then excretion into the urine and out of the body, when it is injected into the skin and muscle of human infants. All the FDA and AAP documents say is it may be a problem, but we haven’t studied it yet, so we should limit aluminum in injectible solutions. But no one is talking about the levels in vaccines.”

  17. #17 alison
    November 5, 2011

    Laura, you don’t seem to have grasped the points made by T-reg. Particularly his point that vaccines are intramuscular & are absorbed s-l-o-w-l-y into the bloodstream, which would place less of a challenge on the kidneys’ ability to clear Al from the bloodstream. (Which they do rather effectively: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.119.9558&rep=rep1&type=pdf)

  18. #18 laura
    November 5, 2011

    @Alison-link is not working.

  19. #19 herr doktor bimler
    November 5, 2011

    The problem is the right-parenthesis which has adhered to the URL.
    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.119.9558&rep=rep1&type=pdf

  20. #20 laura
    November 5, 2011

    @herr doktor- Thank you

  21. #21 T-reg
    November 6, 2011

    @Laura: My comment was on a theoretical basis to counter the theoretical basis on which Dr. Sears voices his concerns (and to some extent misrepresents the study).

    However, the link posted by Chris @#177 has a section explaining a study on Aluminum metabolism and how Dr. Sears’ concerns and fear-mongering are unfounded. While Dr. Sears talks on a general theoretical basis without any sound facts specific to Aluminum metabolism (I cast a doubt his claims on similar grounds) this refutation has some sound and verified facts regarding Aluminum metabolism and excretion.

    The point I was trying to make is that there are several loop holes and unknowns in his line of reasoning. While the same can be said about unknowns in my line of reasoning, I have not gone ahead and published a book posing as an authority on vaccination and making baseless claims to the general public. This last part is what is to be condemned, in my view.

  22. #22 T-reg
    November 6, 2011

    @Alison: A very informative link. Thank you very much.

  23. #23 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
    November 6, 2011

    Since aluminum is only the third most common element on Earth, you better work on eliminating all exposure to silicon and oxygen first.

  24. #24 Laura
    November 6, 2011

    @T-reg
    Read Sec 10 page 24 again.

  25. #25 Science Mom
    November 6, 2011

    @ Laura, there are copious data regarding aluminium but Dr. Sears ignored the most relevant ones in favour of cherry-picked studies to support his “gut science” aka “intuition. Children do not receive toxic levels of aluminium via vaccines by any stretch.

    Dr. Bob Sears isn’t a researcher why do you use him as an authority?

  26. #26 laura
    November 6, 2011

    T-reg-
    Condemned? Really? The concerns are not baseless- there might be a problem with the total body burden of aluminum.
    Safety has not been proven.

  27. #27 Laura
    November 6, 2011

    @Science Mom- Please rest my fears and direct me to the studies.

  28. #28 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 6, 2011

    Laura – so basically, you want mainstream medicine to prove a negative – that there is no possible danger from the aluminum in vaccines. And you want this to take place:

    A) before anyone, including Dr. Sears, has produced anything in the way of positive evidence supporting the existence of such a danger (certainly not anything that is specific enough to make the speculation falsifiable and thus scientific)

    B) after learning that the total “body burden” of all the aluminum contained in all the vaccines a person might reasonably receive in their life is less than the aluminum in a roll of TUMS, TUMS being something you have failed to start a crusade against or accuse people of being “fascists” for supporting the use of.

    Are you able to see just some of the problems with that stance??

  29. #29 T-reg
    November 6, 2011

    @Laura:

    What you cite merely speculates from the previous data regarding the body burden of Aluminum.

    Read the link posted by chris @#177 and see the graph which shows the results of a study done on the body burden of Aluminum from vaccination. No speculation here. Actual study data.

  30. #30 T-reg
    November 6, 2011

    @Laura:

    And yes, I do condemn the act of spreading misinformation especially when it is a physician spreading misinformation and fear-mongering about vaccines and especially when he has no concrete proof regarding his claims and there are several fallacies and loop holes in the reasoning on which he bases his claims.

  31. #31 T-reg
    November 6, 2011

    @Laura:

    The concerns are not baseless- there might be a problem with the total body burden of aluminum.

    If you read my comment carefully you would see that I was specifically attacking his reasoning and thus showing how it is baseless.

  32. #32 Laura
    November 6, 2011

    T-reg-
    I was referring to Alison’s link-
    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.119.9558&rep=rep1&type=pdf
    Sec 10 pg 24

  33. #33 Chris
    November 6, 2011

    I have a comment in moderation (absolutely no links and not long). I noticed that they say the first year of aluminum via vaccines is ten times less than the daily limit. This does not seem to be a problem.

    Could you copy the part that you find particularly worrisome so that we know what you are talking about?

  34. #34 T-reg
    November 6, 2011

    @Laura:

    Yes, I know you were referring to alison’s link. I read it and to which i said

    What you cite merely speculates from the previous data regarding the body burden of Aluminum.

    Read the link posted by chris @#177 and see the graph which shows the results of a study done on the body burden of Aluminum from vaccination. No speculation here. Actual study data.

  35. #35 T-reg
    November 6, 2011

    @Laura:

    Maybe I should have rephrased it as “What you cite presents a study and then at the end speculates on the presented data that implications maybe that vaccination may increase the body burden of aluminum.”

    Contrary to this speculation is the actual study done on the body burden of aluminum through vaccination which you can read about at http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/cashing-in-on-fear-the-danger-of-dr-sears/ as cited by chris @#177.

    Check the graph somewhere in the middle (and the text preceding and succeeding it).

    This is perhaps the 4th time I’m referring you to the link.

  36. #36 Laura
    November 6, 2011
  37. #37 Chris
    November 6, 2011

    Actually, looking back at that graph, it pretty much says the same thing the page Laura keeps referring to says.

  38. #38 ArtK
    November 6, 2011

    @Laura

    Chris and lilady are both fascists.

    If there’s one thing that bugs me more than anti-vaxers, it’s people throwing out words like “fascist” as some kind of trump card in an argument. As if accusing those who disagree with you of being “fascists” somehow defeats their arguments. It’s barely an improvement over the 5yo calling someone a “doo-doo head” in an argument. In fact, it’s worse, because adults should understand why it’s a worthless debating technique. It really means “you’re something bad so I don’t have to listen to you.”

    It’s really not very surprising that Laura is as historically and politically ignorant as she is scientifically ignorant. The inability to put the term “fascist” into its proper context (and therefore understand its meaning) is the same as being unable to put the amount of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines in their proper context (i.e. far less than the proverbial roll of Tums.) It’s the same inability to put the risk of vaccine injury in context with the risk of vaccine-preventable diseases. Sad, really.

    Laura, as someone whose family suffered at the hands of real fascists, I’m tremendously offended by your use of the word in such a casual, unthought and childish way. My father left his childhood home in 1939 and never saw his father again, thanks to real fascists. His mother and sister hid from real fascists throughout the war. I have an acquaintance with a number tattooed on his arm by real fascists. Chris and lilady refuting your pathetically weak arguments aren’t anything like real fascists.

    Grow up and learn to think.

    As far as your disingenuous claim that you’re not “anti-vax,” try the duck test: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and leaves duck-shit all over the place, it’s a duck. You walk, talk and leave droppings like an anti-vaxer. Be brave, own up to what you are — I’ll have a modicum more of respect for you if you do.

  39. #39 Laura
    November 6, 2011

    @ArtK-
    Apologies to all- You are correct-it was in the heat of anger….
    but I am not suffering from dementia, delusions as lilady suggested.
    I made an honest inquiry into some unknown facts.
    I defended parents’ rights to make an informed decision. As stated before, my
    grandchildren are vaccinated, one had a vaccine reaction though thankfully fully
    recovered. After her reaction several months ago, I started to question. Also a grandchild of my cousin has autism-reason unknown. Another cousin also has an
    autistic child.

  40. #40 Renate
    November 6, 2011

    An informed decision? Funny if you spread false information, as been shown to you several times. If something bad is discovered after vaccination, this doesn’t mean the two are linked.

  41. #41 Science Mom
    November 6, 2011

    @Science Mom- Please rest my fears and direct me to the studies.

    I see that you have been given some materials to read. Now, are you going to follow the evidence created by actual experts or continue to parrot “gut science” ala celebritrician Dr. Bob?

  42. #42 Laura
    November 6, 2011

    Found the expert in the field- Dr. Offit

    http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/hot-topics/aluminum.html

    Read and noted the section on Pregnancy

  43. #43 Narad
    November 6, 2011

    Found the expert in the field- Dr. Offit

    Yes, you’ve posted that twice. What do you infer from it?

  44. #44 Laura
    November 6, 2011

    Nothing to infer-just the facts as stated-

    “Aluminum is considered to be an essential metal with quantities fluctuating naturally during normal cellular activity. It is found in all tissues and is also believed to play an important role in the development of a healthy fetus. This is supported by several findings:

  45. #45 Science Mom
    November 6, 2011

    Aluminum is considered to be an essential metal with quantities fluctuating naturally during normal cellular activity.

    Aluminium levels do fluctuate but there is no known requirement for aluminium. So there is no evidence to support that statement.

  46. #46 Chris
    November 6, 2011

    Science Mom:

    So there is no evidence to support that statement.

    Dr. Offit apparently references this paper for that claim. I have only glanced at it, and it is better to download the pdf, and not try to read it from either FireFox or Windows Internet Explorer.

  47. #47 Science Mom
    November 6, 2011

    @ Chris, I can’t fathom where he derived that statement from (there is nothing in that review stipulating Al to be an essential metal that I can see), ubiquitous yes, but no known requirement for Al.

  48. #48 Chris
    November 6, 2011

    I’m not sure either. But if it is a such a ubiquitous element, I guess that cells have figured out ways to deal with it. Though it is a bit telling that the review article is over twenty years old, and I wonder if there has been any more research.

    Still, it does remain that aluminum adjuvants in vaccines are not really hazardous.

  49. #49 Luna_the_cat
    November 7, 2011

    @Laura —
    …a grandchild of my cousin has autism-reason unknown. Another cousin also has an
    autistic child.

    Funny how autism seems to run in families. Almost like it might be genetic or something.

  50. #50 Laura
    November 7, 2011

    @Luna-
    I have 20 first cousins, I’ve lost count on 2nd cousins and their children.
    Where is the research so badly needed? Not funny how it runs in families.
    Luckily there are only 2.

  51. #51 Chris
    November 7, 2011

    Did you click on the link in Luna’s comment?

  52. #52 Laura
    November 7, 2011

    “Evidence from many studies suggests that inherited factors are largely
    responsible for the occurrence of autism related disorders. However, it is
    equally clear that genetics cannot fully account for the development of autism.”

    http://www.exploringautism.org/environment/index.htm

  53. #53 Calli Arcale
    November 7, 2011

    ArtK:

    The inability to put the term “fascist” into its proper context (and therefore understand its meaning) is the same as being unable to put the amount of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines in their proper context (i.e. far less than the proverbial roll of Tums.)

    Well, I should hope so, seeing as how Tums are basically calcium carbonate, sugar, and flavoring. ;-P (They could possibly have other trace minerals; they’re made as a byproduct of the marble industry, marble being principally calcium carbonate.) You may be thinking of Maalox or other liquid antacids which contain aluminum hydroxide.

  54. #54 Calli Arcale
    November 7, 2011

    Just looked back at my comment and realized it made no sense. I should hope *not*, because Tums doesn’t contain aluminum at all. 😛 (I need to go to bed now.)

  55. #55 Artk
    November 8, 2011

    Urgh. That’s what I get for repeating someone else’s “fact” without checking it myself. Me culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

  56. #56 Calli Arcale
    November 8, 2011

    Before I started on proton-pump inhibitors, I used to eat Tums like candy, so I read the label. Ah, GERD. Such a *lovely* thing.

  57. #57 Luna_the_cat
    November 8, 2011

    @Laura

    There may well be environmental factors, and in some cases we know that there are — for example, one possible complications of brain damage from measles is ASD.

    Which doesn’t take away from two things:

    1. The rise in ASD is the rise in diagnosis:
    http://www.exploringautism.org/news/label.htm (multiply confirmed in different studies in different areas by different teams)

    2. There is no link, statistically or epidemiologically, with vaccines: autism incidence doesn’t track with numbers of vaccines at all, when you actually look at details of vaccine schedules at different periods in different areas, no matter what you may hear to the contrary on anti-vaccine sites.

    The single exception to 2., is that (unsurprisingly) measles sequelae drop where vaccination rates are high, leading to fewer documented cases of ASD as a result of measles brain damage.

    One simple idea behind the genetics research is to try to identify what the genes which play into autism do — which will in turn point the way to what they may be vulnerable to in the environment if there ARE any environmental factors. That does not mean we can’t eliminate possible environmental vectors simply on the basis of “no physiological plausibility and NO statistical link whatsoever”, though!

  58. #58 Prometheus
    November 8, 2011

    Art,

    Maalox, Mylanta and other such “balanced” antacids contain aluminium hydroxide (200 to 500 mg per 5 mL “teaspoon”).

    While aluminium toxicity is widely recognised, it has primarily been seen in renal dialysis patients (who cannot excrete aluminium) and infants receiving parenteral (IV) nutrition. It is the latter group that has provided the best information about the toxicity of aluminium, showing that the amount contained in vaccines (even if it were immediately soluble) is well below the toxic level. This is especially true when you consider that the aluminium in vaccines is only slowly absorbed from the muscle or subcutaneous tissues.

    Prometheus

  59. #59 Roadstergal
    November 8, 2011

    Laura: “I am not anti-vax but really question the current schedule of vaccine administration and get called a troll when I want solid facts”

    After reading the comments that follow, I am reminded of the inimitable DNA:

    “What we demand is solid facts!”

    “No, we don’t! That is precisely what we don’t demand!”

    “We don’t demand solid facts! What we demand is the total absence of solid facts!”

    “…we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!”

  60. #60 lilady
    November 8, 2011

    @ Art K: “The inability to put the term “fascist” into its proper context (and therefore understand its meaning) is the same as being unable to put the amount of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines in their proper context (i.e. far less than the proverbial roll of Tums.) It’s the same inability to put the risk of vaccine injury in context with the risk of vaccine-preventable diseases. Sad, really.”

    Sadder still is the fact that laura has not apologized for her nasty “fascist” remark and other snide remarks directed at me recently, and in past discussions.

    She is anti-vax (the duck analogy) and her “fixations” on the few studies that she “throws out there” repeatedly, indicate that she is suffering from sort of dementia.

    Time for her to say “bye-bye”…and really mean it.

  61. #61 Laura
    November 8, 2011

    @lilady-see 242

    and Dr. Offit’s statement 245, 247, questions 248, 249, 250

    Au revoir!

  62. #62 lilady
    November 8, 2011

    laura: That’s not an apology…and you know it. See my posting directed at you on November 4th # 178…I referred you to Dr. Offit and to the CHOP article that you “discovered” two days later and have been fixating on.

    Au revoir!..back at you.

  63. #63 Chris
    November 8, 2011

    Laura, that article does not support your irrational fear of the most abundant metal element on this planet’s crust.

  64. #64 lilady
    November 8, 2011

    Forbes Magazine reports that the AAP weighed in on the NVIC paid video spot being run on Delta Airlines. A copy of the letter they sent to Delta’s CEO is on the Forbes website. According to Forbes, the AAP has not received a reply to the letter or to emails sent.

  65. #65 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
    November 8, 2011

    Chris, you can point out that aluminum is the third most common element in the Earth’s crust till you’re blue in the face, it will never register with some people. Aluminum is unnatural, and was just invented recently—like radiation.

  66. #66 SkyMiles
    November 9, 2011

    Here’s the full response from Delta. Apparently their medical staff agrees with Orac et al., and they will change their approval process so things like this don’t happen again.

    I’m anonymizing the Delta employee who sent the response so she won’t get hate mail from anti-vaxxers.

    Dear [SkyMiles customer]:

    Thank you for contacting Delta Air Lines regarding the National Vaccine
    Information Center (NVIC) video. I appreciate the opportunity to
    address you concerns.

    We value customer feedback and appreciate you taking the time to contact
    us. Please allow me to share some background with you regarding the
    National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) video spot running on some
    Delta aircraft this month.

    Earlier this year, NVIC purchased video advertising space on some of our
    overhead in-flight entertainment systems. The three-minute segment,
    which ends its run on Delta flights during the month of November, is
    part of a show we call Lifestyle 365 and focuses on flu prevention.

    Since the ad began running, we have learned of e-mails, online petitions
    and other social media channels pushing for the removal of the spot
    claiming that it is an anti-vaccine advertisement that discourages
    people from receiving the influenza vaccine.

    Based on customer feedback, Delta felt it important to review the
    episode with our own Health Services Department to better understand
    perception of the video. After doing so, we can understand how some
    might feel that the video doesn’t support vaccination as the key
    preventative measure for influenza.

    Therefore, we have changed our internal review processes and procedures
    to help ensure that submitted content is vetted differently going
    forward. We recognize that while the views represented in Lifestyle 365
    do not necessarily match those of Delta, we have a responsibility to our
    customer to ensure all programming is relevant, accurate and does not
    lend itself to interpretation. Again, customer feedback is very
    important to us and we appreciate you taking the time to share your
    concerns.

    [SkyMiles customer], I want to thank you, again, for writing. We appreciate your
    interest in our company.

    Sincerely,

    [Delta employee]
    Coordinator, Corporate Customer Care
    Delta Air Lines

  67. #67 lilady
    November 9, 2011

    I received the same email last week and last evening at 7PM I received this email…obviously the joint efforts of our internet community has led to success!

    Dear (lilady)

    Thank you for contacting Delta. We value customer feedback and appreciate you taking the time to contact us. Please allow me to share some background with you regarding the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) video spot running on some Delta aircraft this month.

    Earlier this year, NVIC purchased video advertising space on some of our overhead in-flight entertainment systems. The three-minute segment, which ends its run on Delta flights during the month of November, is part of a show we call Lifestyle 365 and focuses on flu prevention.

    Since the ad began running, we have learned of e-mails, online petitions and other social media channels pushing for the removal of the spot claiming that it is an anti-vaccine advertisement that discourages people from receiving the influenza vaccine.

    Based on customer feedback, Delta felt it important to review the episode with the occupational health department to better understand perception of the video. After doing so, we acknowledge to you that the video doesn’t support vaccination as the key preventative measure for influenza.

    Therefore, we have changed our internal review processes and procedures to help ensure that submitted content is vetted differently going forward. We recognize that while the views represented in Lifestyle 365 do not necessarily match those of Delta, we have a responsibility to our customer to ensure all programming is relevant, accurate and does not lend itself to interpretation.

    Our December public service announcement topic is “Every Child By /Two (ECBT) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v+mx5bGepinjk&feature+youtu.be which encourages vaccinations at an early age.

    Again, customer feedback is very important to us and we appreciate you taking the time to share your concerns. Please let us know if you have any further questions and as always thank you for flying Delta.

    Very sincerely,

    (name omitted)
    General Manager, Occupational Health
    Delta Air Lines

    Note the particular sentences about specific to the NVIC, the new policy to vet all video ads and the placement of the “Every Child By Two” PSA aboard Delta flights.

    I replied to email, thanking them for their quick response and suggested they look to other government sites such as Immunize.org for additional PSAs that are educational about vaccine preventable diseases

  68. #68 lilady
    November 9, 2011

    @ SkyMiles: I have a comment stuck in moderation about the success of our campaign to inform Delta Airlines about the NVIC ad video, that will be replaced, starting in December with the “Every Child by Two” PSA video.

    We have had an impact on Delta, which will now be vetted by their medical staff, every ad submitted for the accuracy of medical advice and the possible promoting of an anti-vax agenda.

  69. #69 Luna_the_cat
    November 9, 2011

    YAY! Now that IS a good outcome. 🙂

  70. #70 Narad
    November 9, 2011

    General Manager, Occupational Health

    That’s a win.

  71. #71 Ren, El Epidemiologo
    November 9, 2011

    Wait. Not only are they taking off that spot, but they’re posting one about every child by two?

    That’s almost like getting Glenn Beck off the air and replacing him with lectures on civility and honest discussion.

    Almost.

    *The preceding constitutes only my opinion and not necessarily that on my (now three) employers, their other employees, my friends, family, the dog, the three cats, or the two Guinea pigs.*

    *Oh, and the zebra. (Long story.)*

  72. #72 Narad
    November 9, 2011

    Not only are they taking off that spot, but they’re posting one about every child by two?

    Well, taking it off in the sense of letting it run until the end of the month. The buy was presumably with In-Flight Media Associates, so there are two tiers and the whole package is in the can.

  73. #73 lilady
    November 9, 2011

    “I replied to email, thanking them for their quick response and suggested they look to other government sites such as Immunize.org for additional PSAs that are educational about vaccine preventable diseases.”

    I received this email at 2 PM today:

    Dear Ms. lilady:

    I agree that the immunize.org site is an excellent resource. Thanks for this information.

    Best regards,

    (name omitted)
    General Manager, Occupational Health
    Delta Air Lines

    How much did that ad cost for a one month run? I only hope that Babs was in the process of arrangements to buy more ad space to run the video in other venues.

  74. #74 Narad
    November 9, 2011

    How much did that ad cost for a one month run?

    That’s an interesting question, as well as that of whether they actually bought only a month, and the whole PSA discount issue. Rate cards aren’t easy to find. For a 4Q 2008/Q1-Q3 2009 three-minute advertorial buy on Air Jamaica roundtrips, the rack rate was $45,000. Make of this what you will.

  75. #75 Narad
    November 9, 2011

    ^ That is, per quarter.

  76. #76 lilady
    November 9, 2011

    @ Narad: You made my day (evening)! I guess Babs will have less money now for new videos…or maybe she will decide that the costs of production and “air” time are prohibitive.

    Tsk, tsk…Babs has struck out twice now. She’s a publicity hound, but she didn’t want THIS kind of publicity.

    Where is Chris, our resident forensic accountant to look up the federal filings for the NVIC…to see how many $$$ they are blowing through for the Jumbotron and the Delta ads?

  77. #77 Gray Falcon
    November 10, 2011

    I’m wondering if Delta was aware of what NVIC stood for. Considering that a flu outbreak would put a serious crimp in air travel, probably not.

  78. #78 Narad
    November 10, 2011

    I should note that that Air Jamaica figure, coupled with their claimed traffic of 450,000 to 500,000 passengers per quarter in the tine frame, works out to a preposterously high CPM, so I wouldn’t try to extrapolate anything too particular from it. It may represent a rough floor for entry–for comparison, a national full-page full-color ad in the Spirit Airlines magazine is currently $41,454 for a single-issue run.

  79. #79 Roadstergal
    November 11, 2011

    What an unexpectedly timely, reasonable, and overall positive outcome! Good on Delta.

  80. #80 lilady
    November 11, 2011

    @ Roadstergal: Yes, good on Delta. The outcome has now been picked up by internet news sources. Babs has been quoted questioning why the innocent NVIC video evoked such a profound response from the SBM community. Babs made no comment about the “Every Child By Two” PSA video that will run in December…I wonder why? (tee-hee)

  81. #81 Narad
    November 13, 2011

    I think it’s kind of cute that Dachel’s AoA piece from November 11 attempts to suggest that the AAP letter is some sort of fake:

    LBRB also published a copy of a letter they say was written by someone from the American Academy of Pediatrics to Delta Airlines stating the AAP’s objections to NVIC’s educational video. In the letter, the “AAP” calls on Delta to remove the video…. Other websites and bloggers have also republished the LBRB article and “AAP” letter online.

  82. #82 lilady
    November 13, 2011

    @ Narad: While “slumming” once again, I caught that article questioning the veracity of the AAP letter. The “conclusion” drawn by their posters is that the AAP leadership and member doctors are all part of the “grand conspiracy”…sad.

  83. #83 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    Babs has been busy since this latest fiasco with the NVIC Delta Airlines ad. She has sent out a press release to the media slamming the AAP:

    National Vaccine Information Center Calls Out AAP For Using Public Intimidation to Censor NVIC Flu Prevention Video Offered to Delta Travelers

    I just love this one paragraph from the press release:

    NVIC co-founder and president Barbara Loe Fisher responded, “Without cause, the AAP has used their considerable financial resources and political influence to intimidate Delta for simply showing a video that offers accurate information about ways to stay healthy during the flu season, including talking with doctors about getting a flu shot. Censorship and attacks on consumer advocacy groups working to institute informed consent protections in public health policies should not be tolerated in this or any society that cherishes free speech and the right to self determination.”

    This sentiment brought tears to my eyes…while I was ROTFLMAO.

  84. #84 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    Babs has been busy since this latest fiasco with the NVIC Delta Airlines ad. She has sent out a press release to the media slamming the AAP

    Tish tosh. Laden poster “Dr. Spock” was already all over the Freedom(!) angle yesterday.

  85. #85 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    It’s a funny thing about airlines. In spite of their huge staff of flight personnel, mechanics and ground personnel in areas all over the world, their corporate staff such as human resources, department heads and legal staff all “know” each other…they are quite interconnected.

    I happen to have a “close” relative who worked as in-house counsel for a large international air carrier and they all “know” each other and they know their legal counterparts in the FAA, the DOT and Department of Justice, as well. Whenever a situation such as this arises with one airline, the circumstances and resolution of a situation, quickly is discussed in other airlines.

    Of course, Babs is not helping her cause by making it a “cause celebre” with her press release and her readiness to be quoted in popular media outlets.

  86. #86 lurker
    November 16, 2011

    Just to remind everybody what a vaccine reaction can look like-

    http://iansvoice.org/default.aspx

  87. #87 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    Just to remind everybody what a vaccine reaction can look like

    Like an easy settlement and 44 grand for the lawyer?

  88. #88 Lawrence
    November 16, 2011

    I’ll see your vaccine reaction & raise you with a 30% mortality rate for smallpox (which we don’t need to worry about anymore).

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/smallpox/en/

    Again, no one is saying that vaccine reactions don’t occur, they do – but autism isn’t one of them & it was BLF herself that helped set up the VAERS to compensate those that do have legitimate claims.

  89. #90 Todd W.
    November 16, 2011

    Just to remind everybody what a vaccine preventable disease can look like-

    http://shotbyshot.org/story-gallery/

  90. #91 Chris
    November 16, 2011

    Narad:

    Like an easy settlement and 44 grand for the lawyer?

    Do you mean like this and this?

    And notice how the website lurker posted has not been updated since before that, and he/she skips over that the child had spent time in the NICU. It is more of a case of the dangers of preeclampsia.

  91. #92 Th1Th2
    November 16, 2011

    It is more of a case of the dangers of preeclampsia.

    Damn it. Who paged Dr Quack?

  92. #93 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    Hello lurker: If the parents chose to blame the Hepatitis B vaccine, by posting the pictures of the baby on the website, they are wrong. The vaccine is not a live vaccine..it is a recombinant DNA vaccine and infection with the virus is impossible.

    Did you read the parent’s “diary” (Ian’s Life) on the website? Baby was in trouble before birth, after experiencing aspiration of meconium in utero. Baby was also treated for MAS (Meconium Aspiration Pneumonia) which is treated by antibiotics in the NICU and did not receive the vaccine until he was 7 days old.

    So, we have pictures of this infant who most probably had a severe case of Stevens-Johnson Syndrome from one of the antibiotics that he received or possibly an anti-convulsant that he received in the NICU. S-J Syndrome rarely can lead to septic shock and the resulting major organ failure and DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulation) that the infant experienced that resulted in his death.

    Perhaps the mother omitted the fact that Ian’s in utero distress and distress after birth was a result of exposure to maternal GBS (Group B Strep) infection which can lead to septicemia and the cascade of events that was reported in the diary and shown in the the pictures on their website.

    Get a life, lurker, real doctors and nurses have treated children and adults with septicemia and septic shock.

  93. #94 lurker
    November 16, 2011

    Why did they ever give him a Hep B shot with his history?
    They were ready to bring him home from the hospital- He was discharged from the NICU
    Read again–not selectivity, w/o bias

    Day 7 (July 1)
    Fact: An infant’s immune system is very weak at birth. The hepatitis B vaccine can cause serious reactions if the system is already compromised, as was Ian’s.

    Day 8 (July2)Fact: After receiving the hepatitis B shot these symptoms appeared within hours: platelet count dropped from 248,000 to 131,000, rash appeared, seizure-like posturing noted, irritable and non-stop crying, stopped eating, viral-like symptoms.

    You are showing real denial (psych definition)
    They vaccinated their other children.

  94. #95 lurker
    November 16, 2011

    @Todd W.
    Gardasil vaccine victims-

  95. #96 Todd W.
    November 16, 2011

    Oooh! Citation by Youtube! Your science research skills are astounding. I’ll do you one better.

  96. #97 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    Hey, if Laura Keegan, FNP (“Lifeforce is the vital impulse of life”), can provide a video from Universal Mysteries that says as much, that takes care of that.

  97. #98 lurker
    November 16, 2011

    @Todd W-
    I already read that.
    Merck fast tracked Gardasil w/o adequate studies.
    Remember Vioxx?
    http://www.druginjurylaw.com/Vioxx-milestones.html

  98. #99 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    @ lurker: You must not have read the actual vaccine court’s ruling about the case…link supplied by Chris.

    The parents pursued the case in the vaccine court, because the court has a much lower burden of proof. The parents sought remuneration under the “table injury” that their lawyers claimed caused Ian’s illness and subsequent death.

    There are no “antibiotic courts” or “anti-convulsants” court. Recourse is sought in the regular courts, where all the circumstances surrounding his birth…mom’s induced labor for pre-eclampsia, meconium aspiration pneumonia and maternal infection status would all undergo scrutiny. All the hospital records of the many medications he was given would also be subject to “discovery”, as well as testimony and physician’s notes from all the specialists who cared for the infant, would be part of the regular court’s records. The burden of proof of injury/death is much higher in “regular court”.

    Too bad, you think that the “diary” is in fact, “fact”. The child died of septic shock, either from Stevens-Johnson Syndrome associated with medicine (antibiotics or anti-convulsants)to treat his infection…or from maternal infection in the days prior to delivery or at the time of delivery.

    Had the child survived the septic shock, the gangrenous left hand would have been amputated and he might have had other partial limb amputations as well.

  99. #100 Lawrence
    November 16, 2011

    @lurker – and your citations for that are, what exactly?

  100. #101 Chris
    November 16, 2011

    And having found that his “baby killed by vaccine” link leads to more questions with answers he/she cannot deflect, lurker does the most logical thing: change the subject to a painkiller.

  101. #102 Todd W.
    November 16, 2011

    @Chris

    When you can’t refute the argument, the next logical step is to bring up Vioxx, duh! I mean, what could be more damning of vaccines than a drug that works well for pain relief, though its side effects have to very, very carefully be weighed against the benefits, and the marketing for which was handled horribly, not to mention the idiocy of trying to doctor some of the research! So, effective, if risky, drug and botched PR work clearly equals VAKSEENZ BAD!

    lurker, try giving us some scientific evidence that Gardasil causes deaths, rather than emotional appeals from people who, mistakenly thinking that correlation equals causation, are looking for something to blame in an attempt to deal with their grief and loss.

  102. #103 herr doktor bimler
    November 16, 2011

    Lurker:
    Fact: An infant’s immune system is very weak at birth.
    Fact: When statements are in fact factual, people do not feel so insecure about stating them that they have to prop them up this way.

    You are showing real denial (psych definition)
    You are evidently under the impression that psychology defines “denial” as “disagreeing with me”. Is this another of your “Facts”?

  103. #104 lurker
    November 16, 2011

    Herr doktor B-
    re “Fact:”
    That should have had a quotation mark around it because I was quoting from their
    log of “Day 7.”
    This was a tragic incident of an infant who should not have been given a Hep B
    shot because of his condition.

    Read anything into that you like but first read the story.

  104. #105 Chris
    November 16, 2011

    lurker, that is your professional opinion upon reading all of the medical notes and with your education as a pathologist, right?

  105. #106 herr doktor bimler
    November 16, 2011

    re “Fact:”
    That should have had a quotation mark around it because I was quoting from their log of “Day 7.”

    Are you saying that if the bullshit you are spouting is quoted from someone else it somehow becomes more evidential?

  106. #107 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    I suspect that “lurker” gets all his YouTube “citations” from the NVIC…where his particular “YouTube Citation” is prominently featured.

    I nominate “Chris” for today’s Internet Award for her link to the actual Vaccine Court case decision. Are nominations still open for “YouTube citations awards”?

  107. #108 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    My previous comment wound up in the mod queue, but Keegan seems to be somewhat colorful. Her own site, dutytoinform-dot-org, is merely a redirect to a Facebook page.

    The clarity of my recognition of my duty to inform came to me recently as a result of years of wanting to speak freely about both the risks and benefits of vaccines without being labeled “anti-vaccine.”

    Let’s see, what’s among her “likes”? Oh, America’s darling band, The Refusers. Yah, wouldn’t want to be labeled or anything.

  108. #109 herr doktor bimler
    November 16, 2011

    first read the story
    If it is all as ill-informed as the extracts you have regaled us with, why on earth would I want to do that?

  109. #110 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    I also found Laura Keegan’s Facebook page…she is a major player on “Team Wakefield”.

    Perhaps “lurker” could supply us with the “YouTube Citation” video of Michele Bachmann speaking about a HPV vaccine victim who, after receiving the vaccine, “thereafter became mentally retarded”.

  110. #111 Chris
    November 16, 2011

    I’ve seen the now dormant diary website that lurker linked to about three times in the last month or so. No one seems to notice that the blog link is dead, that the newsletter has not been updated or that several of the links are dead.

    I have a feeling that the “unpublished” part of the US Court website means that none of the testimony is published, so the parents really don’t want all of the details online.

    lurker, the only way that the “should not have given the vaccine argument” will fly if there was also a malpractice lawsuit. Not against the vaccine manufacturers, but to the health care providers who seem to have done what you think they should not have done.

  111. #112 Prometheus
    November 16, 2011

    lurker (#306):

    “This was a tragic incident of an infant who should not have been given a Hep B shot because of his condition.”

    I’d love to hear why “lurker” feels that this infant’s “condition” precluded the hepatitis B vaccine. Is it because “an infant’s immune system is very weak at birth”?

    The term “weak” as used in this context may be misleading to some. A very young infant’s immune system is not “weak” in the sense of “fragile or easily damaged” but rather in the sense of “not very effective”. That’s why group B streptococcal sepsis is so serious in (otherwise healthy) newborns and why expectant mothers are tested for it (2006: incidence 0.7 per 1000 live births, case-fatality rate 4 – 6%).

    The “weakness” of a newborn’s immune system is why only one vaccine is routinely given at birth (hepatitis B) – not because the young baby’s immune system might be “overwhelmed” but because it generally won’t react sufficiently to generate a significant immune response.

    Hepatitis B is readily transmitted from mother to child at birth and since neonatal infection with hepatitis B leads to chronic hepatitis B infections in about 95% of cases, it makes sense to immunise newborns, even if mom tests negative for hepatitis B, because the test turns “positive” only after the peak of blood viral load has passed.

    Vaccinating – even for hepatitis B – is generally more effective later in life, but vaccinating at birth has been shown to significantly lower the risk of developing chronic hepatitis B (which can lead to cirrhosis or liver cancer) in children born to infected mothers. And since the currently avaiable tests can’t reliably pick up maternal infections until after the time of greatest maternal-to-child infection risk, it’s worked out to be safer to vaccinate all infants at birth.

    Still, I’m curious what “lurker” thinks the hepatitis B vaccine did to this poor infant. The hepatitis B vaccine is contains hepatitis B surface antigen proteins, produced by transgenic yeast. There is no active infectious agent, not even in the yeast cultures. Was it the memory of the virus that caused such a severe reaction – a sort of homeopathic potentisation reaction?

    Of course, my suspicion is that “lurker” hasn’t a clue and is simply repeating was he/she has been told by others. Time to get out of the parrot cage, “lurker”, and think for yourself!

    Prometheus

  112. #113 lurker
    November 16, 2011

    @Chris-

    Read CDC’s -who should not get the Hep B vaccine.

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/should-not-vacc.htm#hepb

  113. #114 Vicki
    November 16, 2011

    lurker–

    So, your point is that the parents shouldn’t have gone to the vaccine court, because there was nothing inherently wrong with the vaccine, but should have sued for malpractice?

  114. #115 lurker
    November 16, 2011

    @Vicki-
    My point is that if they had been educated about the risks of the vaccine and
    the truth about how Heb B was added to the schedule (non-compliance by the
    target population) they would never have allowed the Hep B to be given and their
    child might still be alive.

  115. #116 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    @ Vicki: “lurker” still has not provided REAL citations about the infants actual medical history, including the induced labor and the infection from meconium aspiration that he was treated for, with antibiotics.

    From the pictures on the website it appears he suffered DIC septic shock and major organ failure from bacteremia or from Stevens-Johnson Syndrome from the antibiotics or anti-convulsants he was given.

    “lurker” is obviously “showing real denial (psych definition)”

  116. #117 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    Hey, if Laura Keegan, FNP (“Lifeforce is the vital impulse of life”), can provide a video from Universal Mysteries

    I should note that I had the “as seen on” causal arrow reversed; Universal Mysteries picked up Keegan’s video.

  117. #118 Chris
    November 16, 2011

    lurker:

    My point is that if they had been educated about the risks of the vaccine

    Who is “they”, the parents or the medical personnel that were in charge of the baby’s medical care?

    So, lurker, are you the lawyer now gathering up all of the medical files for that malpractice suit?

  118. #119 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    @ Narad: She also has a “practice” in New York State. Here’s what she has to say about “conventional pharmacological care”:

    “Illness Care by Appointment

    I offer conventional pharmacological care when appropriate. However, more often than not, typical visits suggest holistic care that does not involve conventional medications. I primarily use homeopathy, but my approach is eclectic including therapeutic nutrition, herbal medicine, anthroposopical medicine and cranial sacral therapy. I consult with other practitioners and specialists when necessary or beneficial.”

    Has she missed any part of “eclectic care”?

  119. #120 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    @ Chris: He ain’t no lawyer…just an anti-vax troll.

  120. #121 Chris
    November 16, 2011

    It was sarcasm.

  121. #122 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    So was my post at #322.

  122. #123 Chris
    November 16, 2011

    Ooops.

    But he really does not understand the direction his whinging is going.

  123. #124 lurker
    November 18, 2011

    @302 lilady
    @303 Lawrence

    According to lilady the baby suffered from Stevens-Johnson Syndrome.
    Engerix- B– a possible adverse reaction is Stevens-Johnson Syndrome.
    See Insert For Engerix B

    http://www.drugs.com/ppa/hepatitis-b-vaccine.html

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