Respectful Insolence

This morning, I was forced to do something that I rarely do, namely shut down a comment thread and ban a particularly noxious troll for sockpuppetry. The post in question dealt with one Michael J. Dochniak and his ridiculous and scientifically unsupportable notion (I refuse to dignify it by calling it a “hypothesis”) that Latex used in the packaging of some vaccines causes autism. In truth, I probably let that thread go on far longer than I should have. Also, I probably should have banned Mr. Dochniak a couple of months ago for repeating the same arguments again and again and again after being thoroughly slapped down by my science-based readers again and again and again and again. But I didn’t. And Mr. Dochniak is still not banned. Hopefully, given his level of discourse, he is not savvy enough to find this new post and thread, but you never know. Maybe he has a Google search set to his name.

To all my regulars who took part in refuting Mr. Dochniak, I salute you. I couldn’t do it and still write new posts. It just goes to show how a community can develop around a blog like this, and how I couldn’t really do it anymore without you.

Comments

  1. #1 Lawrence
    November 13, 2011

    Thanks to you Orac, for all of your hard work, both on and offline.

  2. #2 palindrom
    November 13, 2011

    Orac —

    Thanks for all that you do! I am continually amazed at your dedication and perspicacity, as well as your ability to maintain a sense of humor in spite of everything.

    When I look over a horrible thread like the one you so mercifully terminated, I’m reminded of this Onion article;

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/48hour-internet-outage-plunges-nation-into-product,779/

  3. #3 MikeMa
    November 13, 2011

    I enjoy and learn a lot from the scientific discourse that the usual folks have provide. It is a shame that they are sometimes inundated with stupid.

  4. #4 jre
    November 13, 2011

    I’d been blessedly unaware of this silent monster.

    There must be an interesting explanation for the May-August hiatus, but only the One Whose Name Must Not Be Spoken knows what it is.

    And, Orac, you have my heartfelt sympathy for SB’s inexplicable lack of auto-shutdown for threads. Were it not for WordPress’ capability in this regard, those of us who only post with the same frequency as solar eclipses would have been over our eyeballs with this stuff long ago.

  5. #5 Orac
    November 13, 2011

    Indeed. At my other blog, comment threads automatically shut down 90 days after each post goes live. It is a wonderful thing, and prevents necromancers. Fortunately, I’m told that the new overlords will be migrating Sb over to WordPress…some day. I have no idea when.

  6. #6 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 13, 2011

    If you want to learn something new, read a book.

    Scienceblog is slicker, but books are quicker.

    Sincerely,

    Michael J. Dochniak

  7. #7 Lawrence
    November 13, 2011

    But MjD is sicker….and that’s all I have to say about that.

  8. #8 lilady
    November 13, 2011

    I was the target of the filthy-mouthed pothead sock puppet that was banned. It was a terrible experience.

    In the wee hours of this morning I was online and observed the filth spewed out against two of our “regulars”.

    Sexist pig sock puppets tend to take advantage of Orac’s downtime to harass women.

  9. #9 The Christian Cynic
    November 13, 2011

    If you want to learn something new, read a book.

    This is true, but if you want to learn something true, you have to be a little bit more discerning about what you read.

    Additionally, even I as a bibliophile must note that books are not the quintessence of knowledge: it is perfectly possible to learn more from a good blog than a bad book.

  10. #10 Dianne
    November 13, 2011

    There is essentially no evidence supporting the claim that vaccination is associated with-much less causally associated with-autism. Therefore, there is no point in investigating individual ingredients in vaccines.

  11. #11 Emil Karlsson
    November 13, 2011

    It was thanks to Orac and Respectful Insolence that I discovered how flawed and corrosive the anti-vaccine movement really was.

  12. #12 Prometheus
    November 13, 2011

    Dochniak, the irrepressible book-spammer (#6):

    “If you want to learn something new, read a book.”

    Very true – although if you read Mr. Dochniak’s books, all you will learn is how little he understands about immunology, biology and science in general.

    If, on the other hand, you’d like to expand your knowledge horizons (apart from the knowledge of how easy it is to write a book about a subject you know nothing about), I’d suggest reading a different author. Dr. Seuss would be a better choice.

    Good to see that you made your way here, Mr. Dochniak – did you bring some data, or is your argument still based on your “beliefs” and a misunderstanding of immunology (e.g. from his most recent book, that IgG and IgM are part of the innate immune system).

    Prometheus

  13. #13 Lawrence
    November 13, 2011

    Can we agree to stop proving MjD with any sort of forum to spew his unbelieveably incoherent and unnecessarily repetative posts?

  14. #14 Pareidolius
    November 13, 2011

    Wow, I missed that whole flame war somehow. Prometheus, when you started that thread, you said that you had never written a book. Well, now, thanks to the sheer volume of nuttery flung your way, I believe you have. Fantastic work in the face of one of the weirdest trolls in RI history. Okay, the animal rights supermodel from last year wins that one, but MjD is a close, if rather sad, second. Congratulations to all the cogent, sassy and smart posters who endured that campaign.

  15. #15 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 13, 2011

    Diane writes (#10), “There is essentially no evidence supporting the claim that vaccination is associated with-much less causally associated with-autism. Therefore, there is no point in investigating individual ingredients in vaccines.”

    MjD’s response:

    Your statement can only be supported if the immune system doesn’t influence neurological development. Studies have shown that immunity does affect the expression of endogenous proteins including neuron growth factor.

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/478213_5

    It is well known that natural-latex proteins (i.e., hevea-allergens) can contaminate vaccines. The hevea-allergens are considered a contaminant and not an ingredient.

    Vaccine contaminants (i.e., Hevea-allergens) must be investigated in the aetiology of vaccine induced autism.

    MjD

  16. #16 Matthew Cline
    November 13, 2011

    @Michael J. Dochniak :

    If you want to learn something new, read a book.

    If you want us to pay money to buy your book, you’d have to give us some reason to think that it’d be worth the money. Nothing you’ve said here in Orac’s blog has provided any reason to think so, and the excerpts of the book that Prometheus has analyzed give us good reason to think that it definitely won’t be worth the money.

  17. #17 CG
    November 13, 2011

    vaccine induced autism.

    Which there’s no evidence for so we can save time and not bother investigating things for no reason.

  18. #18 Chris
    November 13, 2011

    But, Mr. Dochniak, I am reading a book: The Willowbrook Wars. I hope to finish it today.

    I recently finished Pox: An American History, The Emperor of All Maladies, Schuyler’s Monster, a Father’s Journey with his Wordless Daughter, Among the Truthers, Planet of Viruses, Mr. Jefferson and the Giant Moose, Nonsense on Stilts, Quantum Man, The Disappearing Spoon, The Mathematics of Life, The Panic Virus, The Psychopath Test, Deadly Choices, Wicked Bugs, Wicked Plants, Founding Gardeners, The Story of Charlotte’s Web and House on Fire, the Fight to Eradicate Smallpox.

    Soon I’ll be starting the Cocktail Hour Under the Tree of Forgetfulness, and then I will get The Drunkard’s Walk from the library.

    I really have no time nor desire to read either of your books after seeing your behavior on this blog.

    (in case anyone is curious, I cut the book information from the library emails telling me a hold was available, and paste them into a spreadsheet)

  19. #19 Anton P. Nym
    November 13, 2011

    It is well known that natural-latex proteins (i.e., hevea-allergens) can contaminate vaccines.

    In Quackese, “it is well known” translates to the English phrase, “I believe it strongly but cannot cite a reliable source either through failure to look for one or a genuine lack of such sources.” Nota bene: “buy my book” does not count as a citation.

    I would also like to point out that the good doctor is assuming his conclusion throughout everything that he’s posted here. Not a terribly convincing way to do logic, and it bodes rather direly for the contents of his book.

    — Steve (vaxxed and non-autistic, if we’re doing battle by anecdote)

  20. #20 lilady
    November 13, 2011

    May I make a suggestion…to shut down comments on this subject. I was very upset early this A.M. to see the vicious filthy attacks directed at women who post here. The subject of this blog is a real sick human being.

  21. #21 herr doktor bimler
    November 13, 2011

    Scienceblog is slicker, but books are quicker.

    They must be very short books or contain a high picture-to-text ratio.

  22. #22 Dianne
    November 13, 2011

    Your statement can only be supported if the immune system doesn’t influence neurological development

    No, my statement can only be supported if the bulk of currently available research does not support any correlation between autism and vaccination. Which any jaunt through medline will reveal to be correct: there is no correlation between vaccination and autism. Wakefield’s “research” proved to be fraudulent and subsequent studies simply have not supported any correlation. The immune system may influence neurological development in some ways, but this isn’t one of them.

    Anyway, if latex provokes autism, why isn’t every child ever treated for a serious medical condition in early childhood autistic? Latex is pretty ubiquitous in hospitals, yet patients with sickle cell anemia, thalassemia, a history of early childhood/infancy ALL, etc are rarely autistic. Is latex given as part of a vaccine somehow magic?

  23. #23 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 13, 2011

    Anton P. Nym writes (#19), “vaxxed and non-autistic, if we’re doing battle by anecdote”

    MjD’s response:

    The first mention of natural-latex allergy in a medical journal was in 1933. Dr. John G. Downing described two surgeons who came to him complaining of hand dermatitis after wearing rubber gloves during surgery.

    Downing J. Dermatitis from rubber gloves. N Engl J. Med 1933;208:196-8.

    In 1930 Dr. Leo Kanner developed the first child psychiatry service in a pediatric center at Johns Hopkins hospital, Baltimore. Thereafter, the classification of Autism occurred in 1943 by the same person in the same hospital.

    Thus, it appears that the timing of the discovery of natural-latex allergy and Autism coincide extremely close in medical history.

    MjD (if we’re doing battle by anecdote)

  24. #24 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 13, 2011

    Dianne writes (#22), “Anyway, if latex provokes autism, why isn’t every child ever treated for a serious medical condition in early childhood autistic? Latex is pretty ubiquitous in hospitals, yet patients with sickle cell anemia, thalassemia, a history of early childhood/infancy ALL, etc are rarely autistic. Is latex given as part of a vaccine somehow magic?

    MjD’s response:

    Finally, a good question! There are many factors that can influence the incidence and prevalence of a Th2 immune response. Such factors may include genetic, epigenetic, and cormorbid factors. Furthermore, the prevalence of cross-reactivity in an infant’s adaptive immune system also influences the severity of allergy-induced regressive autism.

    Details can be extracted from the Nova Science book “Allergies and Autism”.

    MjD

  25. #25 Narad
    November 13, 2011

    Finally, a good question!

    Finally?

  26. #26 lll
    November 13, 2011

    so how well was i banned.

  27. #27 lilady
    November 13, 2011

    Please, please stop posting here…it only encourages the filthy-mouthed sock puppets.

  28. #28 jre
    November 13, 2011

    Today’s reading is from the book of Internet Common Law, Title 21, Section 4, “Sock Puppets”:
    [clears throat]

    In cases of egregious and repetitive sockpuppetry, it is considered the blog owner’s prerogative to impose any punishment up to and including banning, on the sockpuppet, and to modify the sockpuppet’s posts without restriction, such modification to be determined at the sole discretion of the blog owner, the scope of which is considered explicitly to include disemvowelling or any other mockery whatsoever.

    Now, as we all realize, Orac is a busy box of blinking lights, but it may not be wise to assume that he has no CPU cycles available for a little … improvement … of certain comments.

  29. #29 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 13, 2011

    Lilady writes (#20), “May I make a suggestion…to shut down comments on this subject. I was very upset early this A.M. to see the vicious filthy attacks directed at women who post here”.

    and

    Orac writes in the introduction, “I couldn’t do it and still write new posts”.

    MjD’s response:

    Orac, if you can’t effectively govern the posts you present here at “Respectful Insolence” the sponsors will frown upon such inaction. Please do not allow indecent posts.

    Respectfully,

    MjD

  30. #30 Militant Agnostic
    November 13, 2011

    @23

    Apparently, the fact that autism existed before Kanner defined it appears to have escaped Michael J. Dochniak.

    Prior to Kanner the substitution of changelings by faeries was a real phenomenon. Presumably something that happened around 1930 (perhaps the Great Depression) caused them to give up this practice just as autism “suddenly” appeared.

  31. #31 Prometheus
    November 13, 2011

    MjD (#34):

    “Orac, if you can’t effectively govern the posts you present here at “Respectful Insolence” the sponsors will frown upon such inaction. Please do not allow indecent posts.”

    Amd this from the master of indecent sock-puppetry himself!

    Prometheus

  32. #32 Sauceress
    November 13, 2011

    Just one from me lilady..

    MjD has now been reduced to sock puppetting. Even more proof that the deceit of antivaxx cultists knows no limit. If someone believes that their facts and reasoning are correct, why resort to such blatant deception? Says everything anyone needs to know about MjD’s character.

    Personally I thought MjD’s spamming of this blog with ads for his books called for a ban, but I guess the old thread did serve to show just how clueless and twisted this person is.

  33. #33 Chris
    November 13, 2011

    Mr. Dochniak, the sock puppet thinks he/she is helping you, it seems to be someone you know (and lives in the same time zone). If anyone should control the behavior of the sock puppet, it should be you. Pretending to be other people and saying things stupid things is not sane behavior.

    The first thing you should do is to stop trying to get us to buy your book. The second thing you need to do is get help.

  34. #34 Narad
    November 13, 2011

    extremely hard to ban someone.

    No, it’s more a matter of how much effort one cares to expend and how dimwitted the nuisance is. I’m guessing that in your case a simple list of inbound addresses would be telling.

  35. #35 DLC
    November 13, 2011

    I’ll be back another time. kindly don’t feed the trolls.

  36. #36 Igor
    November 13, 2011

    “…that Latex used in the packaging of some vaccines causes autism.”

    So it was latex all along. Well that’s good to know, surely this one can be easily rectified. Once we switch to different packaging I’m sure the vaccine detractors will all go away.

  37. #37 Night of Balloons
    November 13, 2011

    Let’s compromise. How about “less than 1 in 9000″ cases of autism is caused by vaccines and leave it at that?

  38. #38 Narad
    November 13, 2011

    It would appear that “lll” was overlooked. [/bofh]

  39. #39 Igor
    November 13, 2011

    Orac, if you can’t effectively govern the posts you present here at “Respectful Insolence” the sponsors will frown upon such inaction. Please do not allow indecent posts.

    I am not sure what sponsors you are referring to or why sponsorship is of any concern to a well employed surgeon/researcher. At any rate, I frequently find statements promoting dangerous and unproven health treatments much more indecent than use of profanity or unsavory imagery.

  40. #40 Igor
    November 13, 2011

    Orac, if you can’t effectively govern the posts you present here at “Respectful Insolence” the sponsors will frown upon such inaction. Please do not allow indecent posts.

    I am not sure what sponsors you are referring to or why sponsorship is of any concern to a well employed surgeon/researcher. At any rate, I frequently find statements promoting dangerous and unproven health treatments much more indecent than use of profanity or unsavory imagery.

  41. #41 Elburto
    November 13, 2011

    Scienceblog is slicker, but books are quicker.

    They must be very short books or contain a high picture-to-text ratio.

    Herr Doktor – he’s reading Spot Goes to the Homeopath. It’s a riveting tale about our floppy-eared canine chum, whose mummy takes him for homeopathic ‘vaccinations’, because she doesn’t want Spot to get the autisms.

    See Spot run. Run Spot, run!
    See Spot take his magic water.
    Good Boy Spot!

    The sequel is called Spot Gets Encephalitis, and follows what happens to the lovable pup after he catches measles from someone at the park.

    Oh, and has anyone else seen this terrifying blog BTW? mumsnothavingchemo.com

    It’s got every disgusting bit of woo you can think of, all condensed into one terrifying, depressing blog. That’s the end result of people like Dochniak, Wakefield, McCarthy and Mercola being allowed to squirt their bullshit where it can land on vulnerable people.

  42. #42 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 13, 2011

    Igor writes (#36), “So it was latex all along. Well that’s good to know, surely this one can be easily rectified. Once we switch to different packaging I’m sure the vaccine detractors will all go away”.

    MjD’s response:

    A good start when big pharma begins to completely remove natural-latex from vaccine packaging.

    In continuation, big pharma needs to encourage latex avoidance after vaccinations due to Th2 shifting. For example, no natural-latex bottle nipples or natural-latex pacifiers after vaccines.

    In an effort to reduce allergy-induced regressive autism, it’s time to put medical products, and infant products, made from H. brasiliensis natural-latex out of business.

    MjD

  43. #43 Chris
    November 13, 2011

    In an effort to reduce allergy-induced regressive autism,

    That does not exist. There is no data to support that latex or vaccines lead to regressive autism. You have had since May to provide that data, and you have failed.

    Get help.

  44. #44 Narad
    November 13, 2011

    In an effort to reduce allergy-induced regressive autism, it’s time to put medical products, and infant products, made from H. brasiliensis natural-latex out of business.

    It might be time to face the fact that blabbering away here is not going to turn Vytex into a gold mine. I mean, seriously, what do you think prospective investors would make of this display?

  45. #45 Mrs. Woo
    November 13, 2011

    Um. You know, Mr MjD, when my son was born I thought that “natural latex” was something to avoid with kids for nipples, etc., way back then. It didn’t last as well as the non-latex kinds, and personally, I didn’t like the texture/flavor of it.

    Sadly, what is proven, AGAIN is the original thread title (of the now-closed thread) was very appropriate. When someone who has an anti-vaccine theory they will go through all manner of intellectual contortions to attempt to justify its existence rather than balance it against current information to see if it is even plausible.

    There is ON-GOING research into possible cause(s) of autism and plausible theories are regularly suggested and evaluated. Sadly, your supposition goes outside what is known and ignores many things which make it implausible because you started your search proving what you saw, not realizing you were dealing with confirmation bias to begin with.

    After so long and many attempts to speak rationally and politely with you, I have to agree with the others. You’re a lost cause. For whatever reason you are incapable of backing up a few steps and looking at where current evidence takes you and then adjusting (or discarding, if necessary) your supposition to fit what is known.

    Orac – you could not have found a more appropriate book/target for the original post. MjD is the poster child for anti-vaccination contortionists.

  46. #46 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 13, 2011

    Elburto writes (#40), “That’s the end result of people like Dochniak, Wakefield, McCarthy and Mercola being allowed to squirt their bullshit where it can land on vulnerable people”.

    MjD’s response:

    Have you ever heard of vaccines with latex warnings? That’s where big pharma is allowed to manufacture vaccines that can inject hevea-allergens into children.

    Hevea-allergens are a catalyst for the sales of allergy medication.

    Read, and get educated, about latex allergy.

    Latex exposure can adversely affect vulnerable children.

    MjD

  47. #47 Igor
    November 13, 2011

    A good start when big pharma begins to completely remove natural-latex from vaccine packaging

    What makes you think this isn’t the responsibility of the Big Latex? Seems unfair to hold pharmaceutical companies solely responsible?

    In an effort to reduce allergy-induced regressive autism, it’s time to put medical products, and infant products, made from H. brasiliensis natural-latex out of business.

    Allergy induced autism? As in a particular allergy, all of them, somewhere in between? If there is such an animal as allergy induced autism, have have you considered going after the Big Peanut, a staple of any growing child’s diet? I always thought Mr. Peanut to be an elitist corporate billionaire mocking the children’s suffering.

  48. #48 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 13, 2011

    Mrs. Woo writes (#44), “Sadly, your supposition goes outside what is known and ignores many things which make it implausible because you started your search proving what you saw, not realizing you were dealing with confirmation bias to begin with”.

    MjD’s response:

    This study can not be ignored.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20957522

    MjD

  49. #49 Chris
    November 13, 2011

    That study has nothing to with vaccines. Allergy-induced regressive autism does not exist.

  50. #50 Rainbow Dash, best pony
    November 13, 2011

    So, uh. Really? Allergy induced Autism?

    You know, my Pathophys is not quite up to par with that of many others – being a Paramedic I typically don’t treat autistic patients just for autism – but can someone take a moment to explain this proposed mechanism by which latex allergies tend to cause autism? Because, in my experience, a latex allergy tends to be the anaphylactic/anaphylactoid type reactions that tend to NEED the skills and patho training I do have. The kind that get lots of Alpha and Beta-2 agonists, and H1/H2 Blockers.

  51. #51 Igor
    November 13, 2011

    Have you ever heard of vaccines with latex warnings?

    I have not. Have you ever heard of vaccines with glass, steel, or plastic warnings?

    Hevea-allergens are a catalyst for the sales of allergy medication.

    Not to mention tissues. Kleenex is in on it as well. The bee-keepers, however, appear to be interested only in selling honey, despite my thorough investigation at the farmer’s market.

  52. #52 Indigo_Fire
    November 13, 2011

    You know, the old thread was mildly entertaining and educational for the first couple hundred comments. But MjD’s truly jaw-dropping level of intransience in the face of far superior logic and evidence (which is the nice way of putting it, I might add) quickly became more frustrating than useful. And lo-and-behold, he’s now doing the exact same thing to this thread.

    To be blunt, I think his presence here has outlived any potential usefulness it may have once had. Orac, if you decide to ban him, just know that you’ll have at least one lurker applauding that decision, and I seriously doubt I’ll be the only one.

  53. #53 Igor
    November 13, 2011

    From the abstract of the study presented by MJD in support of absolute claims.

    [W]e hypothesize that immune reactions triggered by close contact with NRL might influence the functions of B lymphocytes by altering expression of certain proteins identified in our experiments thus contributing to the occurrence of autism.

    With only the abstract to guide me this publication, which postdates MJD book, appears to present us with a hypothesis. It is also a pilot study, a term clearly unfamiliar to MJD who seems to think it validates alarming millions and putting companies out of business.

    This study can not be ignored.

    I shudder to think what other hypothesis or pilot study you might be unable to ignore next.

  54. #54 Mrs. Woo
    November 13, 2011

    @Indigo Fire

    I have to admit I learned a bit debating Mr. MjD in that thread as well (and it opened up an interest in seriously understanding the immune system since some of my struggles are considered autoimmune in nature). I’ve lurked and read with a few polite comments here and there for more than two years at this point (possibly longer – probably found this website when we were dealing with a cancer scare here at home – that would have been three years ago, I guess).

    Lurking is great, but I’ve found that taking the courage to put questions out there, if you’re trying to do it with an understanding of the topic, requires even MORE learning… just kind of trying to encourage you on the lurking thing to maybe peek out more often. :)

  55. #55 lilady
    November 13, 2011

    @ Indigo_Fire: I second your suggestion about banning this mentally deranged man. He really needs some serious help. I shudder to think what he is doing to his family with his anger issues.

  56. #56 Indigo_Fire
    November 14, 2011

    @Mrs. Woo

    Yeah, I really should post here more often instead of lurking. However, since I’m just an undergrad I generally don’t have much to add to the debate that the more highly educated commenters here haven’t already covered in greater detail, but I generally understand enough of what’s going on that I don’t feel much need to ask questions. There’s also the fact that I have a compulsive need to recheck my posts about 10 times before I actually complete them, which means that it sometimes takes me 10 minutes just to post a few sentences when I’m feeling especially neurotic.

    @Lilady

    To tell the truth, I don’t really think he’s the one behind the nasty, angry sock-puppets. Most of his posts are just so cheerfully vacuous and robotic that I have a hard time imagining him as the profanity-spewing, caps-lock-loving, sock-puppet hailing from the Kingdom of Trolls. If they are the same person, then it means he either has split personalities, or he’s the brilliant but evil King of Trolls who’s been deliberately playing the fool since the very beginning.

    I could certainly be wrong, but I’m inclined to think that the sock-puppets are just some anti-vaccine nut who’s decided they’re MjD’s “ally” and is just making a fuss because they’re of the opinion that MjD isn’t being, ahem, “hard enough” on us pro-vaccine types. After all, it’s common knowledge that logic and evidence are nowhere near as important as anger and insults, right? ;)

  57. #57 T-reg
    November 14, 2011

    @MjD @47:

    Study in a chinese “family”… Really, latex allergy is the only explanation?

    Increasingly, research points to the role of genetics as a cause of autism. But it can’t occur to you that genetics could be responsible for it (hint: *family*)

    Plus, a single family has been investigated. How do you rule out the possibility of a coincidence that this particular family may have allergy and autism running in the family but not necessarily as the cause of each other? This is precisely the reason why a single family is too small a number to give you any statistically relevant association between autism and allergy.

    Also, association is not proof of causation. If the association makes you conclude that latex allergy causes autism, how did you rule out the possibility that autism can cause latex allergies?

  58. #58 lilady
    November 14, 2011

    @ Indigo_Fire: I might agree with you..however I was online when this was playing out. He hasn’t in any way denied the sockpuppetry since he started posting again, has he?

    Please come back to post again and do not worry about re-checking phrasing or punctuation. Heh, heh, everyone knows I am the undisputed queen of the run-on sentence.

  59. #59 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    @T-reg: The study is only a pilot study, which means that it’s intended to test the feasibility of the particular research method and to provide guidance for mounting an actual study. I only have access to the abstract which states that the association they are analyzing is a hypothesis.

    Nothing about this study, with the exception that there might be legitimate scientists willing to conduct actual research which is likely to reach conclusions contrary to MJD’s firmly held views. Fear not, nothing about MJD suggests that he is willing to follow the evidence where it leads him, only the evidence which leads him where he wants to go (or has already arrived, to be more precise).

  60. #60 Chemmomo
    November 14, 2011

    @lilady

    He hasn’t in any way denied the sockpuppetry since he started posting again, has he?

    I missed most of the insults (caught some this morning), and can’t judge their authorship. But as to MjD denying authorship: why would he? He also doesn’t actually answer simple questions.

  61. #61 Narad
    November 14, 2011

    He hasn’t in any way denied the sockpuppetry since he started posting again, has he?

    Is there some reason to believe that MJD was the source of this? I missed the early stuff, but that which I saw in this thread didn’t seem like MJD so much as a “Jacob” instantiation.

  62. #62 lilady
    November 14, 2011

    He whose name shall not be mentioned posted from London; this sockpuppet posted from the central time zone, USA.

    I cannot fathom why Dochniak has not denied the sockpuppetry..any rational/innocent person would..yes?

  63. #63 Narad
    November 14, 2011

    I can only suppose that I missed some important aspect. I doubt not only that MJD would be able to pull off any sort of deliberate IP shifting only to recover to some safe harbor, but also that he would grasp that there was anything to deny.

  64. #64 lilady
    November 14, 2011

    I may be mistaken, but he was accused on sockpuppetry on the earlier postings and still has not denied their authorship.

    @ Mr. Dochniak: Why don’t you tell us that you did not indulge in this behavior?

  65. #65 Indigo_Fire
    November 14, 2011

    @Lilady at 61

    Since when has MjD been rational? :P

    Honestly, the fact that his responses to most posts on the other thread boiled down to him ignoring absolutely everything they said and then just reiterating his nonsensical points implies that he does not perceive reality like the rest of us. The fact that he’s completely ignored the sock-puppet could very well be due to the fact that its rants just haven’t permeated his personal-reality-bubble yet.

  66. #66 lilady
    November 14, 2011

    @ Indigo_Fire: You are of course correct with your astute analysis of Dochniak’s behavior. He seems devoid of any rational thinking, will not reply to anyone who questions him and just ignores criticism of his theories.

    One other question. What’s with the relatively new affectation of referring to himself in the 3rd person?

  67. #67 blackheart
    November 14, 2011

    Michael J. Dochniak

    It is often difficult to pierce the bleating and noise of the “skeptik sheep” but it seems you have an interesting hypothesis.

    It seems quite reasonable that there could well be a close association between aberrant genetic expression through transcription factors like NFkB and latex proteins.

    I’d imagine that autism genes expressed would influence such factors as

    Regulation of Immune System Process

    Apoptosis (cell death)

    Regulation of defense response – (Any process that modulates the frequency, rate or extent of a defense response.)

    NFkB has many known activators including and I’m sure the bleating will now increase exponentially
    virus and bacteria such as measles , rubella and pertussis.

    NFkB has been implicated as an important mechanism in Autism pathology.

    “Transcription factors provide the link between early membrane-proximal signalling events and changes in gene expression. NF-kB is one of the best-characterized transcription factors. It is expressed ubiquitously and regulates the expression of many genes, most of which encode proteins that play an important and often determining role in the processes of immunity and inflammation.

    Apart from its role in these events, evidence has begun to accumulate that NF-kB is involved in brain function, particularly following injury and in neurodegenerative conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease.

    NF-kB might also be important for viral replication in the CNS. An involvement of NF-kB in neuronal development is suggested from studies that demonstrate its activation in neurones in certain regions of the brain during neurogenesis.

    Brain-specific activators of NF-kB include glutamate (via both AMPA/KA and NMDA receptors) and neurotrophins, pointing to an involvement in synaptic plasticity. NF-kB can therefore be considered as one of the most important transcription factors characterized in brain to date and it might be as crucial for neuronal and glial cell function as it is for immune cells.”

    Anyway keep up the good work I hope to hear more from you. Of course posting on these forums will do little to further science….perhaps you should open minded people.

  68. #68 Chemmomo
    November 14, 2011

    @lilady #65

    What’s with the relatively new affectation of referring to himself in the 3rd person?

    It’s not new. He’s been doing it for weeks. Trust me on this one.
    His postings escalated at the end of August 2011. He became seriously repetitive on Oct 23, which is what had prompted me to count up the posts. The “MjD’s response” tagline appeared prior to that. I assume it’s because he doesn’t know how to google “htlm tags,” and is using that line as a substitute for using them.

    Narad and Indigo_Fire are both spot on. I’m really not sure why you think he’d be responding to anything rationally. As far as I can tell, he’s all about spin.

  69. #69 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    It is often difficult to pierce the bleating and noise of the “skeptik [sic] sheep” but it seems you have an interesting hypothesis.

    An interesting hypothesis is what the researchers proposing the pilot study MJD linked as definitive proof of the claims made in his book. The skeptics who sheepishly refuse to follow MJD’s miraculous discovery of a link between autism and latex induced allergies would renew their faith in people had he treated it as a hypothesis.

    Of course posting on these forums will do little to further science….perhaps you should open minded people.

    Yet that’s all guys like MJD ever seem to do, post on forums and then try to co opt other people’s work that they often poorly understand. Occasionally they would publish a book containing no original research and “open minded” people will buy that. Some will clean out all the latex in their house some will look for actual studies and base their opinion on that, rather then some guy on the internets calling them a sheep for verifying another internet poster’s extraordinary claims.

  70. #70 T-reg
    November 14, 2011

    @Blackheart:

    What you describe is quite plausible. However, where is the verification for it? No one has any definite proof that it does infact happen. Plausible or not, reality is the final decider and so far you have no evidence.

    Mr Dochniak, with his qualifications is not a very reliable source. He has also amply demonstrated on this website that he has little knowledge of the way the immune system functions further decreasing his credibility.

    Now, the logical flaws in your argument:
    1. Let us assume that latex allergy does in fact cause autism in the genetically predisposed. Considering the amount of latex one is exposed to in our day to day lives, vaccines are an insignificant source of that exposure. Even if we discontinue the practice of vaccination, they will still be exposed to latex and still develop autism. However, without the protection from the vaccines they will also fall prey to measles, mumps, rubella, Diptheria, Pertussis, Chicken pox, Hib meningitis…
    So why should we discontinue vaccination considering that it has benefits and it causes no additional risk of autism?

    2. Now let us assume that exposure to measles can cause autism in those genetically predisposed (as you hypothesize). Considering the high prevalence of measles and high infectivity of the measles virus in the prevaccination era, almost everyone would be exposed to the measles virus at some point in their life. Post vaccination era, everyone is exposed to the measles virus but in its attenuated form which doesn’t cause disease. So, considering your notion, how has vaccination spurred an increase autism when everyone was exposed to the virus and everyone is still exposed to the virus?

    Assumptions appart, after 14 years of the bogus study, several additional studies and meta-analyses later, no link has been found between autism and vaccination. Your hypothesis falls right there.

  71. #71 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    @T-reg: part of the problem is that among the charlatans and true believers, the possibilities are inexhaustible and without the limitations of devising an actual theory with descriptive or predictive power, an individual with a “pot commitment” into a belief is never too far away from providing a new and seemingly unexplored alternative. Of course, the tendency is to ignore all the possibilities that by the same logic are just as likely if not more so to present some perceived risk. People fixated on the idea that vaccines cause autism aren’t even remotely considering the possibility that it’s the computers, Television,radio waves, food additives, growth hormones, sonograms, etc. and ad nauseum. Of course the supporters of these alternative “hypotheses” often refuse to acknowledge any possibility that it might be vaccines.

  72. #72 Todd W.
    November 14, 2011

    First off, glad to see you posting, Indigo_Fire. Not all of us are trained scientists or physicians, so no need to fear on that front. The more voices opining, the greater the breadth of discussion, no?

    @MjD

    Did I read that right? Are you suggesting that there was no autism before 1933-ish? That autism began due to latex allergies? You appear to be falling into the same blunder as many other “autism researchers” on the anti-vaccine front. Namely, thinking that autism did not exist before Kanner created the diagnosis. The problem is that the term “autism” was used prior to Kanner. Not only that, but symptoms which, though classed under a different name, sound very much like what we call autism today were described as early as 1906.

    Then again, why should I be surprised at Mike’s lack of research.

    Mike has an addiction to shill his pulp fiction. (Doggerel’s easy. Science, on the other hand, is hard. You’d do well to learn that, Mike.)

  73. #73 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    So there are about Seven kids with vaccine induced autism.

    But the rest are from natural latex allergies, right?

  74. #74 You cannot kill that which has no odour
    November 14, 2011

    Well yes, that gives us over half a million autistic people who have ‘unusual causes’.

  75. #75 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 14, 2011

    Todd W. writes (#72), “The problem is that the term “autism” was used prior to Kanner. Not only that, but symptoms which, though classed under a different name, sound very much like what we call autism today were described as early as 1906.

    MjD’s response:

    In my opinion, Charles Goodyear (1800-1860) is the father of allergy-induced regressive autism through the development of vulcanized H. brasiliensis natural rubber and then suggesting its use in syringes.

    About 150 years later, we’re just starting to understand how the antigens in natural-latex can affect immunity and cognitive development in children.

    MjD

  76. #76 Mrs. Woo
    November 14, 2011

    Yup – you feed him a tidbit that he can fit INTO his supposition (supposition seems much more accurate than “theory” in this case) and he immediately uses it to once again assert that he could be right.

    If latex allergy causes autism why aren’t we seeing cases of adult-onset autism from people who develop the latex allergy over time?

  77. #77 Dianne
    November 14, 2011

    Finally, a good question!

    Um, glad you like it.

    There are many factors that can influence the incidence and prevalence of a Th2 immune response. Such factors may include genetic, epigenetic, and cormorbid factors.

    Specifics? What factors do you think are involved in vaccination but not in treatment of congenital illness?

    Furthermore, the prevalence of cross-reactivity in an infant’s adaptive immune system also influences the severity of allergy-induced regressive autism.

    So then infants treated for, for example, congenital heart conditions or neonatal leukemia should have a nearly 100% incidence of autism since they are exposed to latex shortly after birth. Also, again, specifics? What sort of allergies are we talking about anyway? If it’s IgE related, then it’s not clear that lymphocyte ratios are even relevant.

  78. #78 lilady
    November 14, 2011

    @ Blackheart: Your boldface “quotation” was lifted directly from the abstract in PubMed # 9185306, from a 1997 article that appeared in “Trends in Neuroscience”. Did you forget to source it? I don’t see anything in that abstract about latex-induced autism…did I miss something?

    Mr. Dochniak do you deny that you were responsible for the sockpuppetry?

  79. #79 Michael J.Dochniak
    November 14, 2011

    Mrs. Woo writes (#76), “If latex allergy causes autism why aren’t we seeing cases of adult-onset autism from people who develop the latex allergy over time?”

    MjD’s response:

    Schizophrenia: The Latex Allergy Hypothesis

    http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1999/pdf/1999-v14n02-p083.pdf

    MjD

  80. #80 Mrs. Woo
    November 14, 2011

    You’re getting rather predictable. I surmised you would either pick schizophrenia and/or Alzheimer’s (especially since there is now early onset documented) as the “adult onset autism.”

    What basis is that conclusion drawn from? Are there functional neurological similarities between the two which suggests that people on the autism spectrum should/could actually be just as readily placed on the schizophrenia spectrum instead? If this is the case, why aren’t hasn’t medicine just labeled autistic patients schizophrenic instead of creating a different diagnosis to label their functioning?

    Or is your leap based on the fact that you are neither a trained physician nor psychiatrist and therefore have no real knowledge of the diagnostic criteria of either illness?

  81. #81 T-reg
    November 14, 2011

    @MjD:

    I didn’t have the patience to read your whole article, but being from India, I would like to put the author’s false assumptions in his opening paragraphs into the right perspective.
    It isn’t that schizophrenia is occurs only among the highly educated/westernized castes. The members of the said “castes” are attribute the symptoms to mental illness and take the patient to a physician (as awareness increases, directly to a psychiatrist). The less educated and people in interior villages just attribute it to possession by evil demons (I’m not making this part up) and take them to the local exorcist (Tantriks), or confine them to a small room or just stone them to death.
    I don’t have any statistics to show (Mental health awareness and statistics on mental illnesses in India are poor but work has started in the area). However, we had psychiatry professor who was had retired from NIMHANS (National Institute of Mental Health and NeuroSciences) and had also been working closely with a Non-Governmental Organization to spread awareness regarding mental health in the rural areas. He was also involved in the rescue of mentally ill patients in the interior villages, who were being persecuted by the villagers based on superstition.
    He would often mention that mental illness is quite prevalent in the rural areas but usually goes undiagnosed and thus untreated.
    Also, in India mental illness has a certain stigma attached to it, especially in small towns where people are aware (unlike the villages) but don’t come forward, fearing the stigma.
    The authors conclusions in the opening paragraphs are definitely questionable.

  82. #82 T-reg
    November 14, 2011

    Edited verdion of my previous post (sorry, I noticed the mistakes after posting):

    I didn’t have the patience to read your whole article, but being from India, I would like to put the author’s false assumptions in his opening paragraphs into the right perspective.

    It isn’t that schizophrenia occurs only among the highly educated/westernized castes. The members of the said “castes” attribute the symptoms to mental illness and take the patient to a physician (as awareness increases, directly to a psychiatrist). The less educated and people in interior villages just attribute it to possession by evil demons (I’m not making this part up) and take them to the local exorcist (Tantriks), or confine them to a small room or just stone them to death.

    I don’t have any statistics to show (Mental health awareness and statistics on mental illnesses in India are poor but work has started in the area). However, we had a psychiatry professor who had retired from NIMHANS (National Institute of Mental Health and NeuroSciences) and had also been working closely with a Non-Governmental Organization to spread awareness regarding mental health in the rural areas. He was also involved in the rescue of mentally ill patients in the interior villages, who were being persecuted by the villagers based on superstition.

    He would often mention that mental illness is quite prevalent in the rural areas but usually goes undiagnosed and thus untreated.

    Also, in India mental illness has a certain stigma attached to it, especially in small towns where people are aware (unlike the villages) but don’t come forward, fearing the stigma.

    The author’s conclusions in the opening paragraphs are definitely questionable.

  83. #83 Prometheus
    November 14, 2011

    Well, Mr. Dochniak just hit a new low – citing a Jounal of Orthomolecular Medicine hypothesis article from 1999. written by Harold D. Foster, PhD, a professor of geography.

    Dr. Foster has also written a few books, including What Really Causes AIDS (HIV depletes the host’s selenium), What Really Causes Schizophrenia (adrenochrome) and Feel Better, Live Longer with Vitamin B3 (whatever).

    I don’t find it surprising that Mr. Dochniak feels kinship with other authors who are completely out of their depth and prefer simple, straight line answers to complex questions.

    Prometheus

  84. #84 Todd W.
    November 14, 2011

    Since MjD seems impervious to science, perhaps we should engage him in rhyme:

    When Mikey invaded a science forum
    He made wild claims none could fathom.
    When asked, “Where’s your proof?”
    He remained quite aloof
    And just repeated his mantra ad nauseam.

  85. #85 Todd W.
    November 14, 2011

    I’ve got a theory; it could be bunnies.

  86. #86 elburto
    November 14, 2011

    EmJayDee fell out of the crazy tree,
    and hit every branch on the way down.

    He hit the ground, exclaimed out loud, “Brasiliensis! Dementis! I am Thingy’s Word-salad apprentice!”,
    and was still.

    Nurses aided with latex, wounded EmJayDee became an autistic statistic.

    Big Pharma had harmed, in the same way as bananas.
    Big Latex, Big Paychecks,
    An insolent conspiracy, of internet pseudonymicity
    To silence brave EmJayDee,
    Voice of vaccinedamaged babies.

  87. #87 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 14, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#83), “I don’t find it surprising that Mr. Dochniak feels kinship with other authors who are completely out of their depth and prefer simple, straight line answers to complex questions”

    MjD’s response:

    Dr. Foster’s latex-allergy hypothesis is creative, insightful, and well written.

    In the aetiology of allergy-induced regressive autism, Dr. Foster is silently inclusive in the questions we ask and the answers we seek.

    MjD

  88. #88 Chris
    November 14, 2011

    EmJayDee:

    Dr. Foster’s latex-allergy hypothesis is creative, insightful, and well written.

    Emphasis on the “creative.” It is almost like it all came to him in a dream.

  89. #89 Ken
    November 14, 2011

    Militant Agnostic @30: Prior to Kanner the substitution of changelings by faeries was a real phenomenon.

    Oh, jeez. I never made that connection. It does seem likely, doesn’t it? Happy newborn replaced overnight by an exact duplicate that just sits and stares blankly. Has anyone published anything on this?

  90. #90 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    Dr. Foster’s latex-allergy hypothesis is creative, insightful, and well written.

    Hans Christian Andersen’s tales are also well written creative and insightful. None of that leads me to believe there are mermaids in the ocean depths.

    MJD, I suggest you try a thought experiment prior to posting. Instead of using nothing but adjectives to bolster your claims, try using more nouns. For example, “Dr. Foster’s hypothesis is validated by his {verb, noun, noun, noun}. That way it will be hypocritical of me to simply accuse you of being stifled and unimaginative with an unjustified sense of infallibility of your ludicrous beliefs. I will actually have to provide specific factual criticisms. ….which I did above. ….and so did everyone else….with notable exceptions.

  91. #91 Chris
    November 14, 2011

    Ken, here is one: Evidence for autism in folklore?.

    A bit more googling reveals that it was written about by Uta Frith. It think it may have been touched on in Paul Collin’s book Not Even Wrong.

  92. #92 LW
    November 14, 2011

    @87:

    What a curious turn of phrase: “Dr. Foster is silently inclusive in the questions we ask and the answers we seek.”

    I recognized it from the prior thread, where it appeared as, “Teachers are silently inclusive in the questions we ask and the answers we seek.”

    Does anyone know where it comes from?  I don’t ask what it means, as I’m not sure that it actually has any meaning, but I’m intrigued as to where it originated. I didn’t find it with Google (my google-fu is not up to par), not even on this very site. 

  93. #93 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    Once is certainly creative in concluding that selenium depletion causes AIDS. Germ denialists give me the urge to locate the last remaining variola major stocks and infect them for “demonsstration” purposes. Then I remember the virulent and horrifying nature of the disease which lead to ALL the world countries to wage an eradication campaign. Abandoning fantasies to acknowledge a harsh reality can prevent dangerous stupidity.

  94. #94 Prometheus
    November 14, 2011

    Igor,

    In Dr. Foster’s defense, he didn’t claim that AIDS wasn’t the result of HIV infection – his claim was that HIV (the virus) depleted the body’s selenium and this selenium depletion caused AIDS. His argument appears to be that people infected with HIV can prevent or delay AIDS by using selenium supplements.

    No doubt Dr. Foster’s musings on latex and schizophrenia are “creative, insightful, and well written”, but they – like Mr. Dochniak’s similar musings on latex – are also fact-free, unsupported and implausible.

    When I read Dr. Foster’s paper, I could almost hear the “click” of crank magnetism between those two. Obviously, Mr. Dochniak sees nothing odd with Dr. Foster’s “hypotheses”, probably because they both live in a world where being “creative, insightful, and well written” is an acceptable substitute for being correct.

    Prometheus

  95. #95 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    I notice MJD is insistent on providing what he considers conclusive evidence by referring to hypotheses? Am I missing something here or is he not willing to recognize a scientific theory as having greater predictive potential than a scientific hypothesis. Does he attribute greater evidentiary weight to pilot studies and hypothesis because they are removed from that dreaded tool of science, the theory. Or maybe he thinks if something is only a theory, then fancier sounding hypothesis trumps it? I’m stumped.

  96. #96 Matthew Cline
    November 14, 2011

    @Prometheus:

    probably because they both live in a world where being “creative, insightful, and well written” is an acceptable substitute for being correct.

    Or possible a world where it’s not possible to simultaneously be incorrect and “creative, insightful, and well written”.

  97. #97 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 14, 2011

    Igor writes (#93), “Then I remember the virulent and horrifying nature of the disease which lead to ALL the world countries to wage an eradication campaign”

    MjD’s response:

    Let me simplify to relieve some of your fears – Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    Of course, at the moment, you have the option of accepting vaccines with latex warnings.

    Understand that such vaccines can not be administered with latex gloves in that many hospitals ban their use.

    Abandoning the reality that hevea-allergen contamination in vaccines is not potentially harmful is dangerous.

    MjD

  98. #98 Chris
    November 14, 2011

    Reminder: Mr. Dochniak has absolutely no proof that vaccines or even latex cause autism. “Allergy-induced regressive autism” is a myth made up by Mr. Dochniak.

  99. #99 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 14, 2011

    Chris writes (#98), “Reminder: Mr. Dochniak has absolutely no proof that vaccines or even latex cause autism. “Allergy-induced regressive autism” is a myth made up by Mr. Dochniak”

    MjD’s response:

    Reminder: Scienceblog is slicker, but a book is quicker.

    Read “Vaccine Delivery and Autism – The Latex Connection” and make your own decisions.

    http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Delivery-Autism-Latex-Connection/dp/1456570056

    MjD

  100. #100 Chris
    November 14, 2011

    Dude, you have had since May to provide actual proof. You failed. There is no reason to believe anything you write.

    Get over yourself.

  101. #101 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    Let me simplify to relieve some of your fears – Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    Your misguided concern is duly noted. Fortunately I am not at risk of contacting smallpox since it has long been eradicated, with the exception of 2 stubborn countries holding onto the last few vials. Can you guess which 2? Incidentally, I am also at a lower risk for contacting small pox then others my age as i hail from the Eastern Block (although it’s unlikely that I still retain most of the initial immunity).

    To date, I have not developed autism or any allergies, or small pox. In your case however, pox on your house for promoting dangerous nonsense to promote a book that even as a gift imposes a high prize.

    Out of curiosity, why do i need a latex warning on the vaccines? At this point I’ve listened to enough of your nonsense to not require a warning were I to accept your completely unsupported claims.

    Finally, do you discourage the use of latex prophylactics in light of your, ahem, hypothesis?

    Abandoning the reality that hevea-allergen contamination in vaccines is not potentially harmful is dangerous.

    What led you to this conclusion? You haven’t demonstrated a very firm grasp on reality to notice when it has been abandoned.

  102. #102 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 14, 2011

    Orac writes in the introduction, “To all my regulars who took part in refuting Mr. Dochniak, I salute you”

    MjD’s response:

    Congratulations Orac, Igor is the most preaching regular I’ve read to date.

    His passion and loyalty to refuting any immunological connection to autism is… old school.

    MjD

  103. #103 Chris
    November 14, 2011

    Mr. Dochniak, get some real psychiatric help.

  104. #104 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    “Dude, you have had since May to provide actual proof. You failed. There is no reason to believe anything you write.”

    Don’t you get it. By not providing any evidence whatsoever to support his claims, he is actually letting you see the evidence more clearly. His answers are inclusive in your questions. It’s all there in my book “Hevea-allergen in vaccines: The Source of Eternal Youth. It comes free with every failure to purchase MJD’s book.

  105. #105 Chris
    November 14, 2011

    :-p

  106. #106 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    Congratulations Orac, Igor is the most preaching regular I’ve read to date.
    His passion and loyalty to refuting any immunological connection to autism is… old school.

    My faith is humor my pulpit an ergonomic chair. And sinceI never actually thought you were amenable to adjusting your worldview with new evidence, I abandoned refuting in favor of old fashioned mocking. I think vehemently opposing “the truth” can be a waste of time, so I skip right to ridiculing it while you do all the accepting.

    Why are cranks so often completely unable to detect satire, irony, mockery, etc.? Are the neurological processes necessary for these devices located in the same brain area regulating logical thinking?

  107. #107 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 14, 2011

    Igor writes (#106), “Why are cranks so often completely unable to detect satire, irony, mockery, etc.?”

    MjD’s response:

    Thanks for saying that Igor, I thought you weren’t my friend anymore.

    Is this typical banter from refutting regulars?

    MjD

  108. #108 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    I don’t know, you are promoting dangerous lunacy by advising that others refrain from vaccinating. I need friends like you the same way I need tetanus. Since you were patently unable or unwilling to engage in an intellectually honsest debate by answering even simple questions in a straightforward manner, and you simply kept on repeating the same thing, i needed to entertain myself with this friendly banter.

    Remember, I was sarcastically addressing you, not refuting your position. I acknowledge my inability to refute your claims, the same way I am unable to refute my friend’s hypothesis that you are actually wearing a latex glove on your head which appears to restrict airflow resulting in nonsensical claims (I keep on telling him you are against latex, but he is not convinced). You are both correct as a result of my inability tom refute you.

  109. #109 lilady
    November 14, 2011

    “futting” The act of doing nothing in particular but being totally awesome while doing so. (Urban Dictionary)

    “refutting” See websites for pseudo-medical, pseudoscience, far-to-the-right political and conspiracy theorists.

  110. #110 Igor
    November 14, 2011

    Thanks, lillady, it appears I am futting after all, although I won’t go as far as to claim I’m “totally awesome.”

  111. #111 Narad
    November 14, 2011

    MJD, I really think you have to explicitly rule out homologous recombinaltion tiniker first if you want to be taken seriously.

  112. #112 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 14, 2011

    Igor writes (#106), “I think vehemently opposing “the truth” can be a waste of time, so I skip right to ridiculing it while you do all the accepting.

    MjD’s response:

    Is Igor an acronym for International Grandmaster of the Refuters?

    MjD

  113. #113 lilady
    November 15, 2011

    I see “someone” has learned how to spell refuters.

    I learned about homologous recombinaltion tiniker during my first year in college…cannot recall if it was in organic chemistry or physics.

    Igor, I thought you were the Intergalactic Grandmaster of the Refutters/Refuters.

  114. #114 T-reg
    November 15, 2011

    This has become an exercise in “banging your head against a brick stone wall”. It’s clear that YemJayDee is (unsuccessfully) advertising for his book and is basically a troll. I must give thingy credit for atleast having more variety in her word salads. YemJayDee’s word salad is just a monotonous drone of “I HATE LATEX! buy my book”…. “I HATE LATEX! buy my book”….
    And our comments here are just defeating the purpose of shutting down the previous thread.

  115. #115 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    A sneak peek inside the book “Vaccine Delivery and Autism – The Latex Connection”, Chapter 5 (Vaccine Karma), Page 32

    Atopic infant be protected
    Inspection before injection

    MjD

  116. #116 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Sneak peek inside the book “Vaccine Delivery and Autism – The Latex Connection”, Chapter 8 (Unhealthy Absorption), Page 50.

    The Hevea-allergens can leach from natural-latex products (e.g., bottle nipples, pacifiers) and be absorbed under the tongue. If the infant has natural-latex sensitivity, an adverse immune response is possible. In support, latex allergy has been known to cause anaphylactic shock during sublingual immunotherapy.(4)

    MjD

  117. #117 Indigo_Fire
    November 15, 2011

    @T-reg

    Yeah, I noticed that, unfortunately. I propose that we all give MJD the recommended Thingy treatment and furiously ignore him until he goes away or gets tired (though I won’t get my hopes up). When he comes up to us screeching “BUY MY BOOK!” we should all just turn around and continue our conversations about….well, anything that’s not about latex causing autism.

  118. #118 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Does this article make any sense to Orac’s army?

    http://www.accesspress.org/2006/04/autism-getting-to-know-a-baffling-disorder/

    MjD

  119. #119 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Indigo-Five writes (#117), “When he comes up to us screeching “BUY MY BOOK!” we should all just turn around and continue our conversations about….well, anything that’s not about latex causing autism”

    MjD’s response:

    Doing so may provoke the wrath of Orac. Review his introduction again, refuting is your objective.

    MjD

  120. #120 Igor
    November 15, 2011

    @116: a sneakier peek into my upcoming publication:

    “Statistical regression of the prevalence of neurological disorders following exposure to literature authored under the direct supervision of Michael J. Dochniak.”

    Michael J. Dchniak’s publication, although ambitious in its scope, is nevertheless plagued by a host of rather troubling issues. In a recent case study of those exposed to the seemingly innocuous contents of the book, At least several individuals reported a decrease in neural activity normally associated with the onset of a degenerative neurological condition.

    Upon further analysis, the author was able to dismiss the syntax and grammar as causative agents. In a subsequent pilot study, the reading and attempt at comprehending the actual information contained in the book correlated with the glial decay.

    In the absence of further studies, readers are cautioned against reckless reading of the contents pf MJD’s treatise. Of course, I welcome MJD to present evidence or studies discrediting the possibility of the link between the information contained in his book and neuro decay. I will endeavor to publish such evidence if and when it becomes available.

  121. #121 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Indigo-Five writes (#117), “When he comes up to us screeching “BUY MY BOOK!” we should all just turn around and continue our conversations about….well, anything that’s not about latex causing autism”

    MjD’s response:

    Doing so may provoke the wrath of Orac. Review his introduction again, refuting is your objective.

    MjD

  122. #122 Igor
    November 15, 2011

    “Is Igor an acronym for International Grandmaster of the Refuters?”

    Close. It’s stands for “Inclusive Gang of Russians” Its a bit of a misnomer since you can’t join. It is also my name, Michael.

    I do applaud your persistence. I think at this point you should have realized that you would have hard time giving your book away on this board. Your best chance at anyone here reading it all is to continue posting excerpts. In fact, I won’t buy your book even in a Farenheight 451 world.

  123. #123 Igor
    November 15, 2011

    “Doing so may provoke the wrath of Orac”

    Nonsense, Orac is very kind to those who avoid talking about latex. As long as we use it in abundance of course.

    “Does this article make any sense to Orac’s army?”

    The words Autism and Aspbergers looked familiar. Otherwise, complete gibberish. Listing genetic factors as a possible cause. What were they thinking?

    Then what;s all this talk about the disorder being incredibly complex. Nothing could be simpler than a latex allergy induced autistic regression.

    What doesn’t make sense is that you managed to link to something like that without spontaneously combusting. There goes my hypothesis in Chapter 2 of my book.

  124. #124 blackheart
    November 15, 2011

    T-reg

    What you describe is quite plausible.

    It certainly is.

    However, where is the verification for it?

    Some very interesting work has been published recently more than adding to this. It is a line of plausible enquiry not a fact.

    No one has any definite proof that it does in fact happen.

    That’s a sad day for science then … can you let the cosmologists know.

    Mr Dochniak, with his qualifications is not a very reliable source.

    I don’t know his qualifications or his body of work or experience therefore I am reluctant to comment on either his or yours or anyone else on these boards.

    he has little knowledge of the way the immune system functions further decreasing his credibility.

    I’ve seen many gross errors on this board (none by me) that would also indicate some question over credibility.

    Now, the logical flaws in your argument:
    1. Let us assume …

    Ooops … there’s your first error.

    Considering the amount of latex one is exposed to in our day to day lives, vaccines are an insignificant source of that exposure.

    I am not an infant … there’s your second error.

    Even if we discontinue the practice of vaccination …

    Why would you discontinue the practice of vaccination ?

    Thimerosal has been removed successfully hasn’t it ? With little effect on efficacy ?

    That would be another error.

    they will still be exposed to latex

    Yes

    still develop autism

    This would depend on the mechanism. Protein induced ? There’d be lots of question around this yet to be elucidated by science. We know some vaccines trigger epilepsy in genetic vulnerable children but how this operates exactly is problematic.

    However, without the protection from the vaccines they will also fall prey to measles, mumps, rubella, Diptheria, Pertussis, Chicken pox, Hib meningitis…

    See above

    So why should we discontinue vaccination considering that it has benefits and it causes no additional risk of autism?

    The true question is should we be more cautious in delivering vaccines to the infant immune system considering the evidence of immune system dysfunction in autism. Noting that our understanding of how vaccines and the immune system both operate is incomplete ?

    Yes.

    Now let us assume … (as you hypothesize).

    See above

    that exposure to measles can cause autism in those genetically predisposed

    Actually what I think is far more complex.

    So, considering your notion, how has vaccination spurred an increase autism when everyone was exposed to the virus and everyone is still exposed to the virus?

    In what way were they exposed to the virus that differs from the pre-vaccination era ? Do these differences account for what you are proposing or is there a more complex interaction.

    Science has a long way to go in this debate on vaccines and safety.

    The Madsen study suggested that measles vaccine was actually protective for ‘autism’.

    Hornig showed in her study that 87% of patients studied had regression.

    Amaral shows differing phenotyoes of autism.

    High Titre measles / Pertussis vaccine was associated with an increase in mortality that endangered 500,000 infant girls.

    Life is full of little amazing factoids.

    Your hypothesis falls right there.

    Well the door is not yet closed on vaccinations and autism.

    If some autism phenotype is an immune system disease …?

  125. #125 T-reg
    November 15, 2011

    @Indigo_Fire: yup… I agree with you. But what Igor’s doing is fun to watch and I’m doubting my commitment to ignor YemJayDee.

  126. #126 YumJayDee
    November 15, 2011

    That’s IT! I’ve found the Panacea for all ailments!
    A very safe alternative to vaccination is here… and it’s latex FREE!
    Find a calm place at a comfortable time (early morning would be preferable). Sit in a relaxed posture with your spine upright and begin chanting: “Aum! I…HATE…LATEX! buymybook!”
    Chant this magical and healing phrase atleast 15,000 times a day, every day, day after day and find that it changes your life and protects you against all ailments (ESPECIALLY autism).

    Of course, I have no studies to prove that it really works. It came to me in a dream and I have written extensively about it. That should count as enough proof – just read my book.

    I can’t prove it to you on this forum because I have exhausted my intellectual capacity while writing the book and now even a basic understanding of the subject is beyond my grasp (as is evident to you from my posts, by now). However, I was at the prime of my understanding on the subject while I wrote my book, so reading it will provide you with conclusive proof.

    YumJayDee

  127. #127 Kathryn
    November 15, 2011

    From Anarchic Teapot:

    Apparently, the fact that autism existed before Kanner defined it appears to have escaped Michael J. Dochniak.

    Prior to Kanner the substitution of changelings by faeries was a real phenomenon. Presumably something that happened around 1930 (perhaps the Great Depression) caused them to give up this practice just as autism “suddenly” appeared.

    Gosh, AT, haven’t you seen that documentary series on HBO about how all the magic left the world during the Great Depression? It’s called Carnavale and features strange things happening in a traveling carnival.

    I didn’t actually watch the whole thing*, but I suppose the Fair Folk left because people gave their leftovers to hoboes instead of the fairies. Or maybe they were tired of the drum circles in the Hoovervilles.

    *I gave up watching it after it was obvious that the evil characters were going to kill and/or torture any likeable characters every freakin’ episode. Not recommended for the squeamish or empathetic.

  128. #128 LW
    November 15, 2011

    “Abandoning the reality that hevea-allergen contamination in vaccines is not potentially harmful is dangerous.”

    Did no one parse this sentence? It is a cry for help! MjD acknowledges “the reality that hevea-allergen contamination in vaccines is not potentially harmful”, and then states that abandoning that reality is harmful. Which it is.

  129. #129 Todd W.
    November 15, 2011

    @LW

    Well, in the previous thread, Mikey did admit that his focus is validating the null hypothesis, which is “latex allergies do not cause autism”. So his protestations that latex allergies, in fact, do cause autism is merely a red herring. He doesn’t actually believe that. He’s kind of like the people in the Flat Earth Society who argue simply for the sake of arguing and to get people to think more critically.

    Of course, Mikey still earns an epic fail, in this regard, since all of us here have already looked at the issue critically and agree with him that latex allergies do not cause autism. He should, rather, head over to some forum like Age of Autism, where people could really use the challenge to think critically about, well, any issue, really.

  130. #130 Matthew Cline
    November 15, 2011

    @Todd:

    Well, in the previous thread, Mikey did admit that his focus is validating the null hypothesis, which is “latex allergies do not cause autism”.

    Wait, I thought he claimed that “latex allergies do cause autism” was the null hypothesis.

  131. #131 Todd W.
    November 15, 2011

    @Matthew Cline

    Technically, all he said was that his focus was validating the null hypothesis. Now, anyone who actually understands science would know that the null hypothesis in this situation is that latex allergies do not cause autism. Mikey, being scientifically illiterate, may have assumed the opposite.

    However, since he did not specify, I am choosing to take it as him agreeing that latex allergies do not cause autism.

  132. #132 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    It’s apparent from the responses above that Orac’s minions (excluding blackheart) are steadfast.

    In my opinion, there can be no compromise when it comes to vaccine safety for children.

    Latex warnings on vaccines are a contraindiction.

    When the packaging of vaccines (i.e., latex) can do great harm, it must be replaced with a safer alternative.

    The technology exists in that latex-free vaccines are available.

    Sincerely,

    MjD

  133. #133 Beamup
    November 15, 2011

    When the packaging of vaccines (i.e., latex) can do great harm

    A point you have signally failed to support in any meaningful way. This statement is effectively equivalent to, “when cars can spontaneously explode, they must be replaced with a safer alternative.” Well, yes, if the first statement were true then the conclusion would be logical. You can’t skip over establishing that the first statement is in fact true, however.

  134. #134 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Latex in Food Packaging Poses Risk:

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/latex.html

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  135. #135 Beamup
    November 15, 2011

    Do you just Google for things that say “latex” in them? The observation that people with a pre-existing latex allergy would benefit from food being labelled for latex provides no support whatsoever for the proposition that latex packaging for vaccines causes autism.

  136. #136 T-reg
    November 15, 2011

    I guess childhood truama (e.g. being pelted with latex erasers by classmates at school) can have damaging effects on intellect and the capacity for rational thought….

  137. #137 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Beamup writes (#131), “A point you have signally failed to support in any meaningful way”

    Even the Ambulance Service has a Latex Allergy Support Group.

    http://www.lasg.org.uk/guidance/ambulance-service

    The support group for those injured by vaccines having a latex warning.

    http://vaers.hhs.gov/index

    MjD

  138. #138 ArtK
    November 15, 2011

    @ MjD

    Even the Ambulance Service has a Latex Allergy Support Group.

    So? What does that have to do with any supposed connection between latex allergies and autism? I know several people with latex allergies, none of them have autism. You’re assuming some kind of connection when you’ve failed, time and again, to prove any kind of connection. Heck, you haven’t even been able to show a statistical correlation, much less prove cause.

    The support group for those injured by vaccines having a latex warning.

    http://vaers.hhs.gov/index

    Huh? That’s VAERS, which is just a database of supposed vaccine injury reports. No science; no proof of any actual connection between a vaccine and any injury. Certainly no proof of any link between latex, vaccines and autism. Just a government sponsored vaccine version of Yelp (and just as reliable.)

  139. #139 T-reg
    November 15, 2011

    Mr. Dochniak, no one is denying that there are individuals allergic to latex.
    However, your chain of thought appears to be -

    latex causes allergy + allergy is an immunological phenomenon.

    Increased immunological activity has been found (in a few studies) to be increased in autistic brains.

    Hence latex causes autism.

    1. Every immunological phenomenon is not allergy. There are several different types of immunological phenomena. In fact, allergy itself is too general a term considering that there are 4 different immunopathological processes which are broadly lumped together under the term “allergy”.

    2. It has been found that there is an association between increased immunological activity in the CNS and autism. A causal relationship has not been established. So your conclusions are yet again baseless.

    3. Your “citations” are mainly Quotations from your own book which is no different from you typing your thoughts here – you don’t seem to have grasped the concept of citations accurately.
    Your other citations merely point to “latex causes allergic reaction” which no one is disputing, in fact it has no relation to the subject of the discussion. Or you cite studies showing an association between immune phenomena in the cns and Autism. As explained above, it again does nothing to prove your point.

    I would also like to point out that most of the people who have engaged you in discussion here are far more knowledgeable and experienced in the field of Immunology and epidemiology than you are. Your qualifications suggest that you wouldn’t even have a basic idea of the the subject. Your words on this forum have only gone ahead to prove your ignorance.
    Please stop wasting our time.

  140. #140 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    T-reg writes (#139), “Your qualifications suggest that you wouldn’t even have a basic idea of the the subject. Your words on this forum have only gone ahead to prove your ignorance. Please stop wasting our time.

    MjD’s response:

    I respecfully disagree…

    The dramatic increase in autism over the last 30 years indicates environmental insult as a dominant factor.

    In the health care industry, it’s well known that the antigenic proteins in H. brasiliensis natural-latex have been dramatically introduced over the last 30-40 years.

    The greater number of vaccinations, combined with vaccine solutions that are contaminated with said proteins, continue to place immunologically senitive children at risk for Iatrogenic autism.

    A mechanism on how the antigenic proteins in latex can induce autism are described in the book, “Vaccine Delivery and Autism – The Latex Connection”.

    MjD

  141. #141 Beamup
    November 15, 2011

    There has been no dramatic increase in autism over the last 30 years. There’s been an increase in DIAGNOSIS, but that’s due to things such as awareness and diagnostic substitution. It’s possible that there has been a small increase in the underlying rate, but nothing big. So your entire argument falls flat on its face instantly, because the correlation which was all you had doesn’t actually exist.

  142. #142 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 15, 2011

    Technically, all he said was that his focus was validating the null hypothesis. Now, anyone who actually understands science would know that the null hypothesis in this situation is that latex allergies do not cause autism. Mikey, being scientifically illiterate, may have assumed the opposite.

    I think I can shed light on this one. Mikey the spammer, early on in the previous thread when we still had reason to think he could be reached by sane discussion, said that the null hypothesis would be satisfied if the whole world was purged of latex exposure and that didn’t reduce the incidence of autism.* So, when he says “my focus is on validating the null hypothesis” it sounds like he’s actually making some token attempt at figuring out whether his wild-ass guess is actually correct – but what he actually means is, his focus is entirely on making people do what he wants… and if afterwards it turns out that what he pushed for and spammed for and deceived for had no basis in reality, and did nobody any good and many people a great deal of harm, oh well. Nice, hunh? Reminds me of the Salem witch trials where the only way to be found innocent of being a witch was to die as a result of the testing procedure. Mikey the spammer has his spiritual kin.

    * I’m paraphrasing, ’cause I’m damned if I’m gonna go look it up for the sake of Mikey the spammer.

  143. #143 Matthew Cline
    November 15, 2011

    @MjD:

    In the health care industry, it’s well known that the antigenic proteins in H. brasiliensis natural-latex have been dramatically introduced over the last 30-40 years.

    If you mean “it’s well known in the health care industry that the exposure of patients to latex allergens has dramatically increased in the last 30-40 years”, you’re going to have to provide some evidence for that. Evidence which doesn’t consist of “read my book”.

    @ArtK:

    So? What does that have to do with any supposed connection between latex allergies and autism?

    I think MjD is trying to say “regardless of whether or not latex allergies lead to autism, all vaccines should be completely hypoallergenic; thus, even if latex allergies don’t cause autism, it’s still the case that 100% of vaccines should be latex free”.

  144. #144 ArtK
    November 15, 2011

    @ Matthew Cline

    I think MjD is trying to say “regardless of whether or not latex allergies lead to autism, all vaccines should be completely hypoallergenic; thus, even if latex allergies don’t cause autism, it’s still the case that 100% of vaccines should be latex free”.

    I think it’s even simpler: “Latex is bad. All latex must go away.” The attempt at tying to autism and vaccines is just jumping on a convenient bandwagon.

  145. #145 Narad
    November 15, 2011

    I think it’s even simpler: “Latex is bad. All latex must go away.”

    Nonononono. Vytex (“Created by Nature. Recreated by Science.”) is natural rubber latex.

  146. #146 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Mr. Cline writes (#143), “If you mean “it’s well known in the health care industry that the exposure of patients to latex allergens has dramatically increased in the last 30-40 years”, you’re going to have to provide some evidence for that”.

    MjD’s response:

    Here’s an article that talks about the increase.

    http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/bandopubs/NHSSlatex.html

    MjD

  147. #147 Narad
    November 15, 2011

    “The intellectual progression of mankind rests on the shoulders of immunity.”

  148. #148 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Let’s review what’s been discussed.

    Proteins inherent in natural rubber latex are known to cause severe and pervasive immune responses.

    More specifically, the Hevea Brasiliensis proteins in natural rubber latex may trigger immunoglobulin-E mediated reaction antibodies and influence cross-react immune responses to other exogenous/endogenous proteins.

    Repeated exposure to the Hevea Brasiliensis proteins has been shown to cause an increased incidence of sensitization, adverse allergic reactions, and even death through anaphylactic shock.

    Natural rubber latex has seen a dramatic increase in usage over the last 30-40 years (e.g., health care industry, consumer products).

    The timing, frequency, intensity, and type of exposure to such proteins may influence the incidence, degree of atypicality, and prevalence of autism spectrum disorders (i.e., allergy-induced regressive autism).

    Therefore, research efforts continue to be directed at exploring how immune responses to such proteins affect lymphocyte sensitivity, enzyme regulation, and neural formation during prenatal/neonatal development.

    MjD

  149. #149 Narad
    November 15, 2011

    The timing, frequency, intensity, and type of exposure to such proteins may influence the incidence, degree of atypicality, and prevalence of autism spectrum disorders (i.e., allergy-induced regressive autism).

    Given your unwavering failure to demonstrate the existence of “allergy-induced regressive autism,” let’s instead review what hasn’t been discussed: what’s your stake in Vytex’s product?

  150. #150 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Narad writes (#147), “The intellectual progression of mankind rests on the shoulders of immunity.”

    MjD’s response:

    The intellectual regression of mankind rests on the shoulders of latex contaminated vaccines.

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  151. #151 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Narad writes (#149), “…let’s instead review what hasn’t been discussed: what’s your stake in Vytex’s product?

    MjD’s response:

    Ask the Vystar Company yourself.

    http://www.vytex.com/OurCompany/contactus.aspx?pageid=F_OC1

    MjD

  152. #152 Narad
    November 15, 2011

    Ask the Vystar Company yourself.

    Thanks, but I’m asking you.

  153. #153 Composer99
    November 15, 2011

    This is the thread that doesn’t end,
    Yes it goes on and on, my friends,
    Some people commented on it, not knowing what it was,
    And they’ll go on for ever just because –

    This is the thread that doesn’t end [...]
    &c
    &c
    &c
    &c
    &c
    &c

  154. #154 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Narad writes (#152), “Thanks, but I’m asking you”.

    and

    (#149), “…what’s your stake in Vytex’s product?

    MjD’s response:

    The Vytex product contains residual Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex. Therefore, I no longer recommend its use.

    The book “Vaccine Delivery and Autism – The Latex Connection” describes how the Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex may be formed in some vaccine solutions.

    The Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex is a dangerous combination.

    MjD

  155. #155 Gray Falcon
    November 15, 2011

    MjD, is it just to make accusations without evidence?

  156. #156 Narad
    November 15, 2011

    The Vytex product contains residual Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex. Therefore, I no longer recommend its use.

    So, basically, they told you to take a hike?

  157. #157 Narad
    November 15, 2011

    Actually, skip it. I’m now with Chris: the sooner you obtain professional psychiatric help, the better off you’ll be.

  158. #158 Matthew Cline
    November 15, 2011

    @MjD:

    Here’s an article that talks about the increase.

    http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/bandopubs/NHSSlatex.html

    Then is it your position that exposure to latex gloves is a primary cause of increase of regressive autism, rather than the latex in vaccine syringes, since the use of latex gloves has increased over the relevant time period, but over the same time period latex-free vaccine syringes have been offered where before there were no latex free syringes? If not, and you’re still insisting that exposure of children to latex via vaccines has also increased over the relevant time period, what’s your evidence for that?

  159. #159 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#155), “MjD, is it just to make accusations without evidence?”

    MjD’s response:

    Here’s the Vystar patent if you’d like to read it?

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=3&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=honeycutt.INNM.&s2=latex&OS=IN/honeycutt+AND+latex&RS=IN/honeycutt+AND+latex

    Did you know that aluminum hydroxide is an immunologic adjuvant used in many childhood vaccines?

    The Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex is a dangerous combination.

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  160. #160 Matthew Cline
    November 15, 2011

    @MjD:

    Proteins inherent in natural rubber latex are known to cause severe and pervasive immune responses.

    More specifically, the Hevea Brasiliensis proteins in natural rubber latex may trigger immunoglobulin-E mediated reaction antibodies and influence cross-react immune responses to other exogenous/endogenous proteins.

    Repeated exposure to the Hevea Brasiliensis proteins has been shown to cause an increased incidence of sensitization, adverse allergic reactions, and even death through anaphylactic shock.

    The same things are true of lots of things which can induce allergy, like peanuts. You haven’t presented any evidence that latex is more likely to cause these things than other allergens, or cause them in a greater degree in those people who do become allergic.

  161. #161 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Mr. Cline writes (#158), “…you’re still insisting that exposure of children to latex via vaccines has also increased over the relevant time period, what’s your evidence for that?”

    MjD’s response:

    The chronology below presents the frequency of childhood vaccines before entering school.

    (1960) Children received 1 or 2 vaccines.

    (1980) Children were routinely given 8 to 9 vaccines.

    (1990) Children received about 10 vaccinations.

    (2011*) Children were routinely given about 40 vaccinations.

    *
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/0-6yrs-schedule-pr.pdf

    MjD

  162. #162 Gray Falcon
    November 15, 2011

    MjD, here is the accusation you keep making: “The Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex is a dangerous combination.” Is it just to make accusations without evidence?

  163. #163 Constant Mews
    November 15, 2011

    MJD, your book is valueless tripe, devoid of support for your contentions. It demonstrates your ignorance of basic biology and lack of scientific understanding.

    It is, in short, a tissue of lies. And you sir, are a liar.

  164. #164 Indigo_Fire
    November 15, 2011

    Bahahaha, now MJD’s moved onto the evil aluminum adjuvants, just like all the other anti-vaxxers. And here I thought that his latex argument was at least rather original, if completely unsupported and illogically structured.

    I really shouldn’t laugh, since even quackery as nonsensical as this has the potential to convince some credulous souls to forgo vaccinations, but MJD’s argument and continued refusal to consider the actual evidence is so absurd and irrational that I can only think of two ways to cope: humor or despair. I’ll take the black humor over despair, thank you.

    Btw, a quick search reveals that Aluminum hydroxide is also the active ingredient in Maalox and a couple of other antacids. Does this mean that I’ll get autism if I take Maalox for my heartburn? :P

  165. #165 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#162), “The Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex is a dangerous combination. Is it just to make accusations without evidence?”

    MjD’s response:

    Great question Gray Falcon!

    It is well known that the Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex is used to induce latex allergy in amimal studies.

    MjD

  166. #166 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 15, 2011

    Indigo_Fire writes (#164), “Does this mean that I’ll get autism if I take Maalox for my heartburn?”

    MjD’s response:

    If this line of questioning continues, this thread could go on for years.

    No comment on the Maalox question, thank you.

    MjD

  167. #167 Narad
    November 15, 2011

    Did you know that aluminum hydroxide is an immunologic adjuvant used in many childhood vaccines?

    What has changed since your delivery of this presentation? (PDF warning.)

  168. #168 Gray Falcon
    November 16, 2011

    It is well known that the Aluminum hydroxide/Hevea-allergen complex is used to induce latex allergy in amimal studies.

    Any evidence for that claim? And if it is true, do you have any evidence that vaccines contain the equivalent dose for humans?

  169. #169 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    Constant Mews writes (#163), “MJD, your book is valueless tripe, devoid of support for your contentions. And you sir, are a liar.”

    MjD’s response:

    The book is an essential read for parents, teachers, scientists, and medical professionals.

    Although they are likely to feel frustrated, be moved to anger, or experience a sense of betrayal, acute awareness of this important issue can only lead to a resolution.

    The message is loud and clear: the use of HDNR in vaccine packaging and delivery violates the first rule of medicine—do no harm.

    MjD

  170. #170 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    (A voice has started whispering sweet Drosophila in my ear, for anyone familiar with the man left holding the umbrella.)

  171. #171 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    *facepalm

    When you ask him to prove that “latex causes autism” he points you to “latex causes allergy“.

    When you ask him to prove that the moon is made of cheese, he’ll probably point to a wheel of cheese and say, “see cheese can be round!”.

    Mr. Dochniak, your assertion and the “reason”/”evidence” that you provide are parallel lines in euclidean space – they never meet.

  172. #172 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    Narad writes (#167), “What has changed since your delivery of this presentation?”

    MjD’s response:

    Vaccine induced autism.

    Sincerely,

    Michael J. Dochniak

  173. #173 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    Vaccine induced autism.

    I’m afraid that I don’t really believe this simple, narrative-free explanation.

  174. #174 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    T-reg writes (#171), “When you ask him to prove that “latex causes autism” he points you to “latex causes allergy”

    MjD’s response:

    Please understand that my goal is validation of the null hypothesis. Removal of latex in vaccine packaging is part of this validation process.

    MjD

  175. #175 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    YemJayDee writes:

    The book is an essential read for….. scientists, and medical professionals.

    T-reg’s response:

    Bahahahahahahahahaha

    NOT after the level of ignorance and lack of critical thinking that you have demonstrated here.

    Bahahahahahahahahaha

    T-reg

  176. #176 Chris
    November 16, 2011

    Narad:

    I’m now with Chris: the sooner you obtain professional psychiatric help, the better off you’ll be.

    Thanks. I have noticed that the frequency and disjointedness of his comments increase at about this time of night, about 10 to midnight in his time zone.

  177. #177 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    Please understand that my goal is validation of the null hypothesis.

    Which null hypothesis, of course, is the opposite of what you insist upon.

    But, seriously, what happened? Was it Honeycutt? If you’re going to advertise a book, you might as well demonstrate the ability to tell a story.

  178. #178 Constant Mews
    November 16, 2011

    MJD: I read your book. It is worthless. It presents your errors in basic biology and outright lies about vaccines. No one should read it. It is valueless. And you, sir, are a liar.

  179. #179 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    To validate the null hypothesis you want to stop all of mankind from exposure to latex without any proof.

    If the null hypothesis stands, then, you would want to stop all exposure to some other “causative agent” that you dream up.

    I’m sorry, but that is not a very prudent way to go about things especially when your whole premise is wrong. You don’t just go about banning random things just to see what happens.

  180. #181 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    Mr. Dochniak:

    Since no one is disputing that latex allergies are real, why are you continuously posting links about latex allergy?

  181. #182 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    T-reg writes (#179), “To validate the null hypothesis you want to stop all of mankind from exposure to latex without any proof”

    MjD’s response:

    Hospital are starting to ban latex.

    http://www.physorg.com/news119886779.html

    MjD

  182. #183 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    T-reg writes (#181), “Since no one is disputing that latex allergies are real, why are you continuously posting links about latex allergy?”

    MjD’s response:

    It has been said that facts are read in the light of theory.

    Latex exposure can cause allergy-induced regressive autism.

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  183. #184 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    Mr. Dochniak:
    Latex is being banned in hospitals because it can cause anaphylaxis which is life threatening.
    I don’t see how that proves your assertion that latex is responsible for Autism; which is the primary reason why you were mentioned on this blog and the basic subject of your book which you have been passionately promoting here as “an essential read for”(among others) “scientists and medical professionals”.

    Parallel lines…. they never meet; just like your assertion and reasoning.

  184. #185 Julian Frost
    November 16, 2011

    Narad writes (#167), “What has changed since your delivery of this presentation?”

    MjD’s response:

    Vaccine induced autism.

    It hasn’t changed. In fact, it never existed. Multiple studies comparing the vaccinated to the unvaccinated found no difference between the rates of autism.
    W.R.T. your book, I agree with Constant Mews: “No one should read it. It is valueless. And you, sir, are a liar.”

  185. #186 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    Here’s the Honeycutt patent. Hope this site works.

    Yes, you’ve already posted that. I’m asking you for a story. Surely, it would be more interesting for all concerned than monotonous repetition. How did you get from point A to point B?

  186. #187 Tartu85
    November 16, 2011

    The NFkB post made me LOL, and I had to post. Of all the different pathways why choose NFkB? It’s just too silly. You do realize that it’s a very common inflammatory pathway, involved heavily in Th1 responses?

  187. #188 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    @Tartu85:

    You do realize that it’s a very common inflammatory pathway, involved heavily in Th1 responses?

    Mr. Dochniak is an alumnus of the Google university’s dept. of Immunology and Epidemiology. You expect too much from him.

  188. #189 Constant Mews
    November 16, 2011

    MDJ claims “Latex exposure can cause allergy-induced regressive autism.”
    No. This is a lie. And you, sir, are a liar.

  189. #190 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    This might be the ONLY subject that we haven’t seen Th1(Th2) responses.

  190. #191 Constant Mews
    November 16, 2011

    Spelling failure: MJD, not MDJ.

    Dochniak, some of us can admit error. You cannot. But then, you sir, are a liar.

  191. #192 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    @lilady:
    I’m really glad that you are back…

  192. #193 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    T-Reg: I’ve never been away aside from my assorted visits to oral surgeon, hospital ER on Sunday with hubby with an unbelievable nose bleed, thence to ENT for cauterization and cardiologist.

    I’m laughing (now) about a possible stone in my sub-mandibular salivary gland. I became “symptomatic” whilst chomping on a bagel while I was visiting friends. A round of clindamycin, a CT mouth scan showed no stone, merely a blocked salivary duct remediated now with warm wet massages.

    Hubby who is s/p three drug eluding cardiac stents placement in February is on Plavix and ASA 81 mg. This is Plan B…Plan A treatment was with 325 mg ASA which caused spontaneous bleeding from the mouth and immense echymoses. Sunday we went to the ER and then to our ENT for cauterization. It’s so much fun when you reach your “golden years”…yeah.

  193. #194 Tartu85
    November 16, 2011

    OK, I think I am starting to get this.

    Latex causes allergies. One of the scientists I work with has a latex allergy. He is also a complete idiot of non-medically diagnosable variety (unpublished data). According to MJD’s logic, I can conclude that latex causes idiocy. But wait, scientist in question developed latex allergy after it has been conclusively demonstrated that he is a complete idiot (unpublished data), therefore idiocy causes latex allergies.

  194. #195 lilady
    November 16, 2011

    @ T-Reg: Oops reference should be “drug-eluting stents”…doh.

  195. #196 blackheart
    November 16, 2011

    TarTu 85

    The NFkB post made me LOL, and I had to post. Of all the different pathways why choose NFkB? It’s just too silly. You do realize that it’s a very common inflammatory pathway, involved heavily in Th1 responses?

    I must remember to pass on your insights …

    2011 Research

    Aberrant NF-KappaB Expression in Autism Spectrum Condition: A Mechanism for Neuroinflammation 2011

    Adam M. H. Young,1,2 Elaine Campbell,1 Sarah Lynch,1 John Suckling,3* and Simon J. Powis1

    1Bute Medical School, University of St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland, UK

    2Autism Research Unit, Department of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, UK

    3Department of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, UK

    This article describes immunodetection and immunofluorescence measurements of NF-κB in human post-mortem samples of orbitofrontal cortex tissue donated to two independent centers: London Brain Bank, Kings College London, UK (ASC: n = 3, controls: n = 4) and Autism Tissue Program, Harvard Brain Bank, USA (ASC: n = 6, controls: n = 5). The hypothesis was that concentrations of NF-κB would be elevated, especially in activated microglia in ASC, and pH would be concomitantly reduced (i.e., acidification).

    Conclusion

    NF-κB is aberrantly expressed in the orbitofrontal cortex as indicated by measurements on post-mortem tissue from ASC patients, and particularly in highly activated microglia. This region is a locus of abnormal function in ASC that underlies the abnormal development of social and cognitive skills (Sabbagh, 2004).

    This is the first discovery of its kind that identifies a potential mechanism for neuroinflammation in ASC through increased expression of this pro-inflammatory molecule and the significant involvement of resident immune cells. The connection of this result to changes in intracellular acidity indicates an investigation of pH across the entire brain parenchyma in living patients.

    Whilst evidence of causal link remains to be established, the idea that the induction of inflammation via the NF-κB signaling cascade is observed in regions of the neocortex associated with behavioral and clinical symptoms of ASC gives credence and impetus to interventions focusing on this potential therapeutic target.

    —————————————————-

    Expression Profiling of Autism Candidate Genes during Human Brain Development Implicates Central Immune Signaling Pathways

    By implementing a biologically relevant approach, we identified a subset of highly expressed ASD-candidate genes from which interactome networks were derived. Strikingly, immune signaling through NFκB, Tnf, and Jnk was central to ASD networks at multiple levels of our analysis, and cell-type specific expression suggested glia—in addition to neurons—deserve consideration. This work provides integrated genomic evidence that ASD-implicated genes may converge on central cytokine signaling pathways.

    Table 1. GO enrichment analysis of the 11 genes shared by Autism, Schizophrenia, and Epilepsy.

    GO: 0032103 Positive regulation of response to external stimulus – Anxiety
    (Any process that activates, maintains or increases the rate of a response to an external stimulus).

    GO: 0031622 Positive regulation of fever – (Any process that activates or increases the frequency, rate, or extent of fever generation.)

    GO : 0031620 Regulation of fever generation

    GO: 0031650 Regulation of heat generation

    GO: 0031652 Positive Regulation of heat generation

    Shown at Table 3 Gene ontology enrichment of the 32 highly expressed Autism genes revealed four new GO categories representing two significant processes—immune system regulation and apoptosis

    GO: 0002682 Regulation of Immune System Process

    GO: 0006915 Apoptosis (cell death)

    GO: 0012501 Programmed cell death

    GO: 0031347 Regulation of defense response – (Any process that modulates the frequency, rate or extent of a defense response.)

    In the first central network (Figure 4), NFκB, Jnk, and Mapk are hubs. Network 2 from the highly enriched set also contains NFκB as a hub, in addition to Tnf, TgfB1 and Myc (Figure 5). Taken together, these enriched networks, which are the most inter-connected of all ASD-derived networks, have at their core fundamental cytokine signaling molecules not previously implicated as ASD susceptibility loci. These may serve as potential final common pathways through which the heterogeneous ASD-implicated genes ultimately converge. Moreover, this represents a third, independent level of analysis whereby the highly expressed ASD genes implicate immune signaling pathways that are not apparent when the full set of ASD-associated genes is considered.

    ———————————————–

    NF-κB and Autism
    A Study of Nuclear Transcription Factor-Kappa B in Childhood Autism
    We have noted significant increase in NF-κB DNA binding activity in peripheral blood samples of children with autism. When the fold increase of NF-κB in cases (n = 67) was compared with that of controls (n = 29), there was a significant difference (3.14 vs. 1.40, respectively; p<0.02).

    Conclusion
    This finding has immense value in understanding many of the known biochemical changes reported in autism. As NF-κB is a response to stressors of several kinds and a master switch for many genes, autism may then arise at least in part from an NF-κB pathway gone awry.

    ————————————-

    Your post made me FOTFFAPM … but hey.

  196. #197 Mrs. Woo
    November 16, 2011

    Sometimes condoms break – does that mean latex also causes pregnancy?

  197. #198 Krebiozen
    November 16, 2011

    Blackheart,

    At least you managed to identify the authors of one of the papers you cite this time, that’s progress, well done. Next time a PMID would be useful.

    Immune system dysfunction and inflammation may play a role in some cases of autism, no one is disputing that. As one of the studies you refer to concludes, “Viral and bacterial infections, hypoxia, or medication could affect both foetus and infant”. We already know that viral infections, such as maternal rubella, and medications, such as valproate, can affect the fetus. The involvement of NF-κB points towards a possible mechanism. I don’t see that it supports the hypothesis that latex, or any other constituent of vaccines, causes autism.

    As others have pointed out, there is good epidemiological evidence that the the only connection between vaccines and autism is a negative one, in that they prevent infections that could otherwise cause autism in susceptible fetuses or infants.

  198. #199 Tartu85
    November 16, 2011

    Blackheart, you know what would be more challenging? Finding a disease state (or for that matter normal state) in which NFkB pathway is not involved.

  199. #200 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    T-reg writes (#), “Latex is being banned in hospitals because it can cause anaphylaxis which is life threatening.

    MjD’s response:

    Are you sure it isn’t also banned in hospitals for all of the pain and suffering it’s caused, other than death from anaphylactic shock?

    The CDC states, “Health care workers face a wide range of hazards on the job, including needlestick injuries, back injuries, LATEX ALLERGY, violence, and stress.

    http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/healthcare/

    Latex is still in some vaccines, that’s criminal.

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  200. #201 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    Krebiozen writes (#198), “The involvement of NF-κB points towards a possible mechanism. I don’t see that it supports the hypothesis that latex, or any other constituent of vaccines, causes autism.”

    MjD’s response:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20957522

    Excerpt from the abstract:

    Based on the function of these differentially expressed proteins, relevant studies on immunoglobulin E (IgE) level, nuclear factor kappa B signaling activation and cell cycle were conducted in both autistic and non-autistic children of this family. Considering the fact that the family members were in close contact with natural rubber latex (NRL) and that IgE-mediated cross-reactions could be triggered by Hevea brasiliensis (Hev-b) proteins in NRL, we hypothesize that immune reactions triggered by close contact with NRL might influence the functions of B lymphocytes by altering expression of certain proteins identified in our experiments thus contributing to the occurrence of autism.

    MjD

  201. #202 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    Mr. Dochniak, I see that you have taken to avoiding the part which is difficult for you to answer. So I shall present it again to you without distracting you with other points –

    I don’t see how that proves your assertion that latex is responsible for Autism; which is the primary reason why you were mentioned on this blog and the basic subject of your book which you have been passionately promoting here as “an essential read for”(among others) “scientists and medical professionals”.

  202. #203 T-reg
    November 16, 2011

    @MjD:
    Just for the record – anaphylaxis is a severe form of TYPE I hypersensitivity (allergy).
    No one is disputing that latex can’t cause allergies.

    Autism is an allergic phenomenon is, however, an unproven and baseless claim.

    I can see that you don’t understand that allergies are a subset of immunological phenomena – all allergies are immunological phenomena BUT all immunological phenomena are NOT allergies. Just because something causes allergies doesn’t make it a cause for other immunological phenomena.

    No matter what references you give to prove that latex can cause allergic reactions, they don’t link latex to autism.

    The moon is round (actually, a sphere) and cheese can be made into wheels (which are also round, thus wheels = spheres) thus the moon is made of cheese – hence proved.
    Yeah right!

  203. #204 Igor
    November 16, 2011

    You know, he spent 2 days droning on latex can cause allergies and allergies cause autism, therefor latex causes autism, that iit was only a matter of time before anything related to the an immunologic response was bound to cause allergies. In fact, given the fact that the whole point of vaccination is to provoke some form of immuno-response I am surprised he doesn’t just say that causes autism.

    With all that latex causing all that autism, should we even worry about Aluminum MJD? Latex doesn’t occur naturally, Aluminum does. Perhaps you will have an easier time waging an imaginary war on the Big Latex.

  204. #205 Prometheus
    November 16, 2011

    Before MjD builds up a head of steam over NF-kB, let me amplify what “Tartu85″ stated. NF-kB (nuclear factor kappa – light chain enhancer of activated B-cells) is not limited to B-lymphocytes and, in fact, has been found in a wide variety of cell types.

    NF-kB is a ready-made transcriptional activator that is present in the cell in an inactive form and its activation can be triggered by a variety of stressors, such as oxidative damage, UV and ionising radiation, bacterial lipopolysaccharides and even cocaine. It is also apparent that NF-kB can be – and is – activated in many “non-stress” situations.

    Apart from its role in cell survival and the immune response, NF-kB is also important in cell proliferation and differentiation – especially during development [e.g. 1,2]. There are even studies showing that NF-kB transcriptional activation might be necessary for learning [3-5].

    So, finding an increase in NF-kB activity or transcription isn’t the “smoking gun” for inflammation it might seem.

    The “bottom line” is that biology – especially the biology of complex eukaryotes (like humans) is rarely as simple as some would like to believe.

    Prometheus

    References:

    [1] Bakkar N, Guttridge DC (April 2010). NF-kappaB signaling: a tale of two pathways in skeletal myogenesis. Physiol. Rev. 90(2):495-511.

    [2] Boyce BF, Yao Z, Xing L (Mar 2010). Functions of nuclear factor kappaB in bone. Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 1192:367-75.

    [3] Gutierrez H, Davies AM (June 2011). Regulation of neural process growth, elaboration and structural plasticity by NF-κB. Trends Neurosci. 34(6):316-25.

    [4] Meffert MK, Chang JM, Wiltgen BJ, Fanselow MS, Baltimore D (October 2003). NF-kappa B functions in synaptic signaling and behavior. Nat. Neurosci. 6 (10): 1072–8.

    [5] Albensi BC, Mattson MP (2000). Evidence for the involvement of TNF and NF-κB in hippocampal synaptic plasticity. Synapse 35 (2): 151–9.

  205. #206 novalox
    November 16, 2011

    @Prometheus

    Thanks for the explanation

  206. #207 Tartu85
    November 16, 2011

    There is a tangential relationship between NFkB and IgE, although NFkB is not directly involved in IgE signaling. But why is anti-latex IgE special, why not ragweed IgE or KLH IgE?

  207. #208 Prometheus
    November 16, 2011

    Tartu85:

    “But why is anti-latex IgE special, why not ragweed IgE or KLH IgE?”

    We’ve asked that question repeatedly – apparently, Mr. Dochniak believes that latex proteins are either [a] significantly more immunogenic than other proteins or [b] a more complex mixture of antigens than other natural or synthetic products or [c] both [a] AND [b].

    We know that he doesn’t feel injection is a critical feature of “latex-allergy-induced-autism” because he repeatedly (repetitively?) cites Shen et al (2011), in which the autistic children’s exposure to latex (multiple cases in a single family) was by exposure in the home and not by injection, let alone from vaccines.

    We also know that he doesn’t consider the developmental state important for the “damaging effects of latex”, as he has cited Foster’s 1999 Medical Hypotheses article, “Schizophrenia: The Latex Allergy Hypothesis”, in support of his argument, so apparently the developmental state of the subject only determines whether they get autism or schizophrenia from latex exposure.

    As for why he thinks that IgE to latex is more “autismogenic” than IgE to other antigens, I suspect that his poor grasp of immunology (he states in his latest book that IgG and IgM are part of the innate immune system) is to blame.

    Frankly, I don’t have the slightest idea why Mr. Dochniak is so convinced that latex proteins are singular in their ability to cause autism, and I don’t think he does, either.

    Prometheus

  208. #209 Tartu85
    November 16, 2011

    Prometheus, thank you for the response. I should have qualified my comment with “I fully realize that I will not convince MJD of anything by bringing up basic biology principles. But it rather pleases me to send him scurrying off to search PubMed and Google for further information about mast cell biology.”

  209. #210 madder
    November 16, 2011

    @Tartu85:

    Prometheus is right; MjD has no comprehension of why he’s focused on latex. In the previous thread on this topic, this was the best explanation he could offer. To my chagrin, he was unable to improve on this hilarity. It’s probably the funniest thing he has ever posted (does anyone else have a contender?), and it’s been downhill from there ever since. Now it’s just sad.

  210. #211 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#208), “I don’t have the slightest idea why Mr. Dochniak is so convinced that latex proteins are singular in their ability to cause autism, and I don’t think he does, either.”

    MjD’s response:

    The numerous latex-proteins are unique in their ability to cause atopy (i.e., many allergies) based on the their seconary, tertiary, and quatenary structure.

    MjD

  211. #212 herr doktor bimler
    November 16, 2011

    Knowing that the rubber tree is a member of the Euphorbia family, I went Googling to see if the latex from other Euphorbias can also be allergenic.
    Yes indeedy, including the familiar decorative Poinsettia, which contains many of the same proteins as rubber-tree latex.
    http://news.georgiahealth.edu/archives/137

    The rise in autism correlates with the growing popularity of poinsettias!* Indoor potplants cause autism! Buy my book!

    * Statement not intended to be factual.

  212. #213 herr doktor bimler
    November 16, 2011

    More Euphorbia speculation…
    The expansion of the poinsettia market in the 1920S and 1930s, leading up to Kanner’s recognition of ‘autism’ in 1940, is detailed here:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/23/local/me-poinsettia23
    The promotion of poinsettias surged again in the 1960s and 1970s, in step with the ‘autism epidemic’. Connect the dots, people!

    I will go on to propose that allergic responses caused by sitting on any of the common garden Euphorbias should be called “ass-spurge’s syndrome”. Then I shall hang my head in shame and creep quietly away, apologising profusely.

  213. #214 Tartu85
    November 16, 2011

    @herr doktor bimler:
    [quote]Knowing that the rubber tree is a member of the Euphorbia family, I went Googling to see if the latex from other Euphorbias can also be allergenic.
    Yes indeedy, including the familiar decorative Poinsettia, which contains many of the same proteins as rubber-tree latex.
    http://news.georgiahealth.edu/archives/137

    The rise in autism correlates with the growing popularity of poinsettias!* Indoor potplants cause autism! Buy my book!

    * Statement not intended to be factual. [/quote]

    Shit! Christmas causes autism!

  214. #215 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    Mr. bimler writes (#212), “Yes indeedy, including the familiar decorative Poinsettia, which contains many of the same proteins as rubber-tree latex.

    MjD’s response:

    Article describing several Hev-b proteins and their structural homology to endogenous/exogenous proteins.

    http://www.laboratoriosilesia.com/upfiles/sibi/P0807700.pdf

    MjD

  215. #216 Prometheus
    November 16, 2011

    MjD (#214):

    “Article describing several Hev-b proteins and their structural homology to endogenous/exogenous proteins.”

    The article:

    Dochniak, MJ (2007). Autism spectrum disorders – Exogenous protein insult. Medical Hypotheses. 69:545-549

    Why am I not surprised?

    Read my book! The conclusions in it are supported by my unreviewed pay-to-play articles in Medical Hypotheses!

    Circular reasoning? You be the judge.

    Prometheus

  216. #217 herr doktor bimler
    November 16, 2011

    Mr. bimler writes (#212),
    I don’t know who that Mr. bimler is but he sounds like a smart guy.

    That MJD, however, sounds like a scamming, spamming douchenozzle, since he has seized the opportunity to refer us to an irrelevant little science-fair report that makes no mention of poinsettias or other non-rubber-tree Euphorbias.

  217. #218 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 16, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#208), “Mr. Dochniak believes that latex proteins are either [a] significantly more immunogenic than other proteins or [b] a more complex mixture of antigens than other natural or synthetic products or [c] both [a] AND [b].”

    MjD’s response:

    Thank you Prometheus!

    MjD

  218. #219 ArtK
    November 16, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#208), “Mr. Dochniak believes that latex proteins are either [a] significantly more immunogenic than other proteins or [b] a more complex mixture of antigens than other natural or synthetic products or [c] both [a] AND [b].”

    MjD’s response:

    Thank you Prometheus!

    MjD

    Mr. Dochniak, I am very pleased to be able to award you your MNS. Master of the Non-Sequitur.

    So, which is it? [a], [b], [c] or something else?

  219. #220 Science Mom
    November 16, 2011

    In light of the last thread Dochniak hijacked to pimp his book, I do hope that our host has a pre-determined post count before locking this one. Because I (along with everyone else, assuredly) can see where this is going.

  220. #221 Prometheus
    November 16, 2011

    MjD (#217):

    “Thank you Prometheus!”

    He missed the point – none of his claims about latex proteins are true. There are proteins that are much more immunogenic than any or all of the latex proteins and there are commonly used natural products that are much more complex than the mixture found in latex.

    ArtK (#218):

    “Mr. Dochniak, I am very pleased to be able to award you your MNS. Master of the Non-Sequitur.”

    I’d suggest that, in addition, Mr. Dochniak be awarded his MC: Master of Cluelessness. He can’t even tell when he’s being insulted.

    This is getting pathetic – again. Mr. Dochniak is clearly a non-combatant in this battle of wits.

    Prometheus

  221. #222 Narad
    November 16, 2011

    Read my book! The conclusions in it are supported by my unreviewed pay-to-play articles in Medical Hypotheses!

    The Medical Hypotheses article lives on in the Google cache for those who don’t have institutional access or $31.50 to burn. Elsevier’s copyediting standards shine on, if this is any comparison (cuts off in § 21); a quick comparison suggests that they have faithfully reproduced the… idiosyncrasies. No, wait, authorial voice. That’s it.

    I don’t even have the heart to look at the articles that cite it at the moment.

  222. #223 Matthew Cline
    November 16, 2011

    @Prometheus:

    Frankly, I don’t have the slightest idea why Mr. Dochniak is so convinced that latex proteins are singular in their ability to cause autism,

    I have a guess as to the way MjD thinks that led him to believe that latex is special when it comes to being an allergen. (Let me make it clear that this isn’t the way I think)

    My guess as to how he thinks:

    A scientific paper isn’t going to mention a fact about the thing being studied unless the fact differentiates it from other similar things. For instance, a scientific paper involving mice isn’t going to mention that they need to breathe oxygen or drink water to keep living, because all mice are like that, so it isn’t worth mentioning. On the other hand, if a scientific paper says “these mice need to consume X in order to keep living”, the fact that it was worth mentioning must mean that this is something that makes them different from other mice.

    Now, lets apply that to scientific papers on latex as an allergen:

    * If the paper mentions that antibodies to latex can cross react, that must mean that antibodies to latex are more likely to cross react, or cross react to a greater degree, since if their cross reactivity is similar to other types of antigens, why bother mentioning it?

    * If the paper mentions secondary/tertiary/etc structure or latex proteins, there must be something special about those structures compared to the structures of other allergens, since if there wasn’t any difference, why bother mentioning it?

    * If the paper mentions that latex has a variety of different immunogenic molecules, then it must have a greater variety of different immunogenic molecules than other types of allergens, since if it had a similar amount of such molecules as other allergens, why bother mentioning it?

    A different angle to apply the same way of thinking: a typical scientific paper is going to mention one fact about the thing being studied, the thing that makes it different and interesting. For example, a paper on mice might say “the mice being studied have the ABC mutation”. One paper, one fact; easy, simple. But if you pick out a random scientific paper on latex as an allergen, it might mention a lot more than one fact about latex, which means that latex is a special, extra-strong allergen. In fact, any scientific paper on latex as an allergen is going to mention more than one fact about latex; iron-clad proof that latex is a special, extra-strong allergen.

    So, with this type of mindset, MjD has a hunch that there’s something special/different about latex, reads some scientific papers on latex as an allergen, and is simply blown away by how special and strong an allergen latex is. At this point, with his hunch proven correct, he doesn’t go on to learn about the immune system in general.

  223. #224 T-reg
    November 17, 2011

    @MjD:

    The numerous latex-proteins are unique in their ability to cause atopy (i.e., many allergies) based on the their seconary, tertiary, and quatenary structure.

    1. Atopy is a predisposition to have an IgE mediated allergic response to a wide variety of antigens.
    So, if a person is atopic he/she may be allergic to (among many things) latex. Atopy, in this case, caused the latex allergy NOT the other way around!

    Judging by how twisted your concept of causality is, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that you believe that it is the lights in the sky at dawn which causes the sun to rise.

    2. There is nothing special about latex proteins having Primary, secondary and tertiary structures. ALL proteins have primary, secondary and tertiary structures and ALL those structures eventually determine the property of that protein and its interactions.

    I’d like to point out to you, once again, Mr. Dochniak that you are making an utter fool out of yourself by arguing with the ladies and gentlemen on this thread. Most of them are well versed professionals in this field or relevant allied fields while you lack even a basic understanding of it.

    You have written a book when you are barely acquainted with the alphabet (metaphorically). Your explanations here are, as expected, mere scribbles by a child who has just learnt how to use a pen. Your belief in having made a supreme discovery is the same as that of this child who having made a page-long-scribble believes that he has just made an immense contribution to literature. Unfortunately, only those who know what literature actually is will recognize the child’s mistaken belief.

  224. #225 blackheart
    November 17, 2011

    Krebiozen

    At least you managed to identify the authors of one of the papers you cite this time, that’s progress, well done. Next time a PMID would be useful.

    No worries if you can’t cut and paste I’ll try to be more helpful.

    Immune system dysfunction and inflammation may play a role in some cases of autism, no one is disputing that.

    I think I’d disagree with that. There’s seems to be a certain inertia in the UK medical establishment to acknowledge that position.

    As one of the studies you refer to concludes, “Viral and bacterial infections, hypoxia, or medication could affect both foetus and infant”. We already know that viral infections, such as maternal rubella, and medications, such as valproate, can affect the fetus. The involvement of NF-κB points towards a possible mechanism. I don’t see that it supports the hypothesis that latex, or any other constituent of vaccines, causes autism.

    Have I made that statement ? (Assumptions assumptions)
    I said it was an interesting hypothesis because ….. but there is a few more interesting tid bits of research.

    As others have pointed out, there is good epidemiological evidence that the the only connection between vaccines and autism is a negative one, in that they prevent infections that could otherwise cause autism in susceptible fetuses or infants.

    “As others” … I thought I pointed that out ? Which was confined so far to the measles vaccine….

    Remember those 500,000 infant female deaths associated with measles vaccine. The mechanism has yet to be established how this came about ? Something about the scheduling ?

    Interesting about vaccines having sex differentials ?

  225. #226 blackheart
    November 17, 2011

    Tartu85

    Blackheart, you know what would be more challenging?

    Finding someone to challenge me at an intellectual level ?

    Finding a disease state

    Autism as a disease state. Thanks. A rare admission.

    (or for that matter normal state)

    So you just didn’t read the neuroscience, the genetics or the blood analysis.

    Or your just completely ignoring them.

    Here you go again….

    Aberrant NF-KappaB Expression in Autism Spectrum Condition: A Mechanism for Neuroinflammation 2011

    Adam M. H. Young,1,2 Elaine Campbell,1 Sarah Lynch,1 John Suckling,3* and Simon J. Powis1

    1Bute Medical School, University of St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland, UK

    2Autism Research Unit, Department of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, UK

    3Department of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, UK

    This article describes immunodetection and immunofluorescence measurements of NF-κB in human post-mortem samples of orbitofrontal cortex tissue donated to two independent centers: London Brain Bank, Kings College London, UK (ASC: n = 3, controls: n = 4) and Autism Tissue Program, Harvard Brain Bank, USA (ASC: n = 6, controls: n = 5). The hypothesis was that concentrations of NF-κB would be elevated, especially in activated microglia in ASC, and pH would be concomitantly reduced (i.e., acidification).

    Conclusion

    NF-κB is aberrantly expressed in the orbitofrontal cortex as indicated by measurements on post-mortem tissue from ASC patients, and particularly in highly activated microglia. This region is a locus of abnormal function in ASC that underlies the abnormal development of social and cognitive skills (Sabbagh, 2004).

    This is the first discovery of its kind that identifies a potential mechanism for neuroinflammation in ASC through increased expression of this pro-inflammatory molecule and the significant involvement of resident immune cells. The connection of this result to changes in intracellular acidity indicates an investigation of pH across the entire brain parenchyma in living patients.

    Whilst evidence of causal link remains to be established, the idea that the induction of inflammation via the NF-κB signaling cascade is observed in regions of the neocortex associated with behavioral and clinical symptoms of ASC gives credence and impetus to interventions focusing on this potential therapeutic target.

    —————————————————-

    Expression Profiling of Autism Candidate Genes during Human Brain Development Implicates Central Immune Signaling Pathways

    By implementing a biologically relevant approach, we identified a subset of highly expressed ASD-candidate genes from which interactome networks were derived. Strikingly, immune signaling through NFκB, Tnf, and Jnk was central to ASD networks at multiple levels of our analysis, and cell-type specific expression suggested glia—in addition to neurons—deserve consideration. This work provides integrated genomic evidence that ASD-implicated genes may converge on central cytokine signaling pathways.

    Table 1. GO enrichment analysis of the 11 genes shared by Autism, Schizophrenia, and Epilepsy.

    GO: 0032103 Positive regulation of response to external stimulus – Anxiety
    (Any process that activates, maintains or increases the rate of a response to an external stimulus).

    GO: 0031622 Positive regulation of fever – (Any process that activates or increases the frequency, rate, or extent of fever generation.)

    GO : 0031620 Regulation of fever generation

    GO: 0031650 Regulation of heat generation

    GO: 0031652 Positive Regulation of heat generation

    Shown at Table 3 Gene ontology enrichment of the 32 highly expressed Autism genes revealed four new GO categories representing two significant processes—immune system regulation and apoptosis

    GO: 0002682 Regulation of Immune System Process

    GO: 0006915 Apoptosis (cell death)

    GO: 0012501 Programmed cell death

    GO: 0031347 Regulation of defense response – (Any process that modulates the frequency, rate or extent of a defense response.)

    In the first central network (Figure 4), NFκB, Jnk, and Mapk are hubs. Network 2 from the highly enriched set also contains NFκB as a hub, in addition to Tnf, TgfB1 and Myc (Figure 5). Taken together, these enriched networks, which are the most inter-connected of all ASD-derived networks, have at their core fundamental cytokine signaling molecules not previously implicated as ASD susceptibility loci. These may serve as potential final common pathways through which the heterogeneous ASD-implicated genes ultimately converge. Moreover, this represents a third, independent level of analysis whereby the highly expressed ASD genes implicate immune signaling pathways that are not apparent when the full set of ASD-associated genes is considered.

    ———————————————–

    NF-κB and Autism
    A Study of Nuclear Transcription Factor-Kappa B in Childhood Autism
    We have noted significant increase in NF-κB DNA binding activity in peripheral blood samples of children with autism. When the fold increase of NF-κB in cases (n = 67) was compared with that of controls (n = 29), there was a significant difference (3.14 vs. 1.40, respectively; p

    Conclusion
    This finding has immense value in understanding many of the known biochemical changes reported in autism. As NF-κB is a response to stressors of several kinds and a master switch for many genes, autism may then arise at least in part from an NF-κB pathway gone awry.

  226. #227 lilady
    November 17, 2011

    @ T-Reg: I posted about Dochniak’s description of his son’s “allergic” attack…way back in May…on the other blog.

    Dochniak claims that his son, since diagnosed with “latex allergy induced regressive autism”, had an anaphylactic episode when he blew up a balloon at his second birthday party. He required a trip to a hospital E.R. for treatment to reverse the life-threatening reaction to latex. Dochniak further describes the treatment for “anaphylaxis” with an epinephrine shot, and the E.R. discharge instructions to use a nebulizer for to avoid additional “episodes”.

    I also commented that nebulizer treatments are prescribed for asthmatic attack prevention…not allergic anaphylaxis. As usual, Dochniak never defended his “story” and never replied to my posting.

    Other commenters added to my posting, “suggesting” to Dochniak that the powdery substance (talc?) packed in cheap balloons, when inhaled, was probably the cause of the wheezing/asthmatic-like attack. Again, Dochniak ignores any and all posts that debunk his “theory”.

    “Your belief in having made a supreme discovery is the same as that of this child who having made a page-long-scribble believes that he has just made an immense contribution to literature. Unfortunately, only those who know what literature actually is will recognize the child’s mistaken belief.”

    I’m reminded of my toddler, so delighted that she could read and show off her talents to mommy. We would “read” some of her favorite “Little Golden Books” each evening and she was able to link the pictures with some of the words and “fill in the blanks”. We never “challenged” her reading ability so as not to dampen her enthusiasm for reading. There were plenty of her crayon artwork that I also displayed as refrigerator art, as well.

  227. #228 blackheart
    November 17, 2011

    Prometheus

    in support of his argument, so apparently the developmental state of the subject only determines whether they get autism or schizophrenia from latex exposure.

    I’d imagine those of us with a more fluid intelligence able to see many intersections of gene expressions and schizophrenia and autism.

    GO enrichment analysis of the 11 genes shared by Autism, Schizophrenia, and Epilepsy.

    GO: 0032103 Positive regulation of response to external stimulus – Anxiety
    (Any process that activates, maintains or increases the rate of a response to an external stimulus).

    GO: 0031622 Positive regulation of fever – (Any process that activates or increases the frequency, rate, or extent of fever generation.)

    GO : 0031620 Regulation of fever generation

    GO: 0031650 Regulation of heat generation

    GO: 0031652 Positive Regulation of heat generation

    Autism shares 69 genes with schizophrenia / 43 epilepsy and 11 between all three.

  228. #229 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 17, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#220), “There are proteins that are much more immunogenic than any or all of the latex proteins and there are commonly used natural products that are much more complex than the mixture found in latex.

    MjD’s response:

    Not when it relates to contaminants in vaccines.

    Natural latex is a “natural product” that demands an FDA mandated warning-label on vaccine packaging.

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  229. #230 T-reg
    November 17, 2011

    @Lilady: ha ha… I’m glad my comment (even though unintentional) made you reminisce such fond moments.

  230. #231 T-reg
    November 17, 2011

    I suppose Mr. Dochniak’s bad experience with his son’s condition spurred him into learning more about latex allergies.
    But, he has stretched it too far in trying to do what he is not trained/qualified to do.

    All these people who feel that their situation is similar to that of Galileo’s fail to realize that what was known in physics at that time was fairly limited and it was possible for a person with minimum training to do what he did, if he just applied his thought. Today, we know that Galileo was not entirely correct about his postulates on gravity. First came along Newton and then Einstein. Today, to make a new discovery in physics, you have to be up to date with the known laws of physics before you are in a position to make an actual discovery. In fact, to even make sense of what you are doing you need that base. To extend this metaphor further: Einstein is best remembered by the lay public for his theory of relativity. But his Nobel prize in physics was for his work on the photo-electric effect. The reason being that though his hypothesis was mathematically elegant and potentially explained a lot, it’s predictions were yet unverified in reality.
    This is precisely the problem with all the crank hypotheses notions – too many loose ends making it fall flat when even superficially scrutinized. And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, unverified in reality.
    So, when a genius like Einstein was not honoured for arguably his greatest contribution to science when he had no evidence to back it up, what makes these cranks think that they can pass off anything without proof?

  231. #232 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 17, 2011

    Lilady writes (#223), “I’m reminded of my toddler, so delighted that she could read and show off her talents to mommy. We would “read” some of her favorite “Little Golden Books” each evening and she was able to link the pictures with some of the words and “fill in the blanks”. We never “challenged” her reading ability so as not to dampen her enthusiasm for reading. There were plenty of her crayon artwork that I also displayed as refrigerator art, as well.

    MjD’s response:

    We love our children and want the best in life for them.

    We also want them protected from the harmful effects of disease.

    Vaccines are a medical marvel in the prevention of childhood diseases.

    Forced immunity through vaccination is in its infancy, we must continue to challenge medical science and never become fixated on its many successes while accepting its few failures.

    Vaccine continuous-improvement is imperative.

    Demand latex-free vaccines!

    MjD

  232. #233 blackheart
    November 17, 2011

    Michael

    Other commenters added to my posting, “suggesting” to Dochniak that the powdery substance (talc?) packed in cheap balloons, when inhaled, was probably the cause of the wheezing/asthmatic-like attack. Again, Dochniak ignores any and all posts that debunk his “theory”.

    Cornstarch not Talc.

    J Allergy Clin Immunol. 1994 Apr;93(4):751-8.
    Cornstarch powder on latex products is an allergen carrier.
    Tomazic VJ, Shampaine EL, Lamanna A, Withrow TJ, Adkinson NF Jr, Hamilton RG.
    Source

    Food and Drug Administration, Center for Devices and Radiological Health, Health Sciences Branch, Rockville, MD 20852.
    Abstract

    Allergic reactions of the upper respiratory tract during use of powdered latex rubber gloves have been recently associated with sensitivity to latex. We have studied the ability of cornstarch powder to bind latex proteins and evaluated allergenic properties of the bound protein. Allergenicity was determined by competitive inhibition of human anti-latex IgE binding to solid-phase latex antigen. Cornstarch extracted from powdered latex products and clean cornstarch exposed to latex protein extracts were evaluated in comparison with clean unexposed cornstarch. Both exposed cornstarch preparations inhibited specific binding of anti-latex IgE antibodies to latex proteins in a dose-response manner. Latex-exposed cornstarch diluted 50% vol/vol produced complete inhibition, whereas greater dilutions exhibited variable levels of inhibition, depending on the source of cornstarch-bound proteins, insolubilized latex proteins, and IgE antibody-containing human serum used. Cornstarch not exposed to latex had no inhibitory activity.

    The study demonstrates that cornstarch indeed binds allergenic latex proteins and supports the causative relationship between allergic reactions in individuals with latex sensitivity and the exposure to airborne particles from powdered latex products.

    —————————————————

    Some of us have personal experiences that correlate exactly with your experience.

    It is unfortunate that some posters are ignorant of some basic health and safety matters.

    Any allergic reaction that effects breathing is a medical emergency and must be treated as such.

  233. #234 lilady
    November 17, 2011

    Answer the questions I posed to you in May…about your son’s visit to the E.R. and why you lied about the circumstances. Fool.

  234. #235 Gray Falcon
    November 17, 2011

    MjD, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be wrong? You never answered that question.

  235. #236 Renate
    November 17, 2011

    Is it just me, or is MjD starting to sound like a broken record?

  236. #237 ArtK
    November 17, 2011

    @ 230

    Starting?

  237. #238 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 17, 2011

    lilady writes (#228), “Answer the questions I posed to you in May…about your son’s visit to the E.R. and why you lied about the circumstances. Fool.

    MjD’s response:

    Chapter 4 (Adaptive Immunity), Allergies and Autism, Nova Science:

    Dain‘s pediatrician removed the natural-latex protective gloves from his hands after completing the examination. A wisp of powder floated into the air as the gloves were peeled off his hands and discarded into a waste basket next to the examination table. The pediatrician‘s eyes extensively scanned and sorted through several years of routine examinations. The silence that filled the room was interrupted by Dain‘s self calming hum as he strenuously rocked back and forth on the examination table. It was clear that Dain had dramatically regressed over the last several months. A forty word vocabulary was completely gone and social interactions were now replaced with repetitive self-stimulation. Dain‘s well defined muscles, on both arms and legs, gave an indication of the repetitive jumping and flapping behaviors which seemed to increase daily.

    Latex is dangerous, refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  238. #239 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 17, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#229), “MjD, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be wrong?”

    MjD’s response:

    Words like “wrong” or “right” are encompassing and absolute.

    My efforts have been directed at validating the null hypothesis which says the hevea-allergens in natural-latex do not cause allergy-induced regressive autism.

    MjD

  239. #240 Science Mom
    November 17, 2011

    My efforts have been directed at validating the null hypothesis which says the hevea-allergens in natural-latex do not cause allergy-induced regressive autism.

    And what data have you gathered to that end? And if you are still in the process of something, then how do you justify making such definitive statements?*

    *rhetorical questions that will undoubtedly be answered with, “buy my book” and “refuse latex-contaminated vaccines”. Because we all know what the answers really are.

  240. #241 Gray Falcon
    November 17, 2011

    I am not talking right or wrong in the moral sense, I am talking right or wrong in the “2+2=5″ sense. MjD, do you understand the concept of honesty?

  241. #242 Vicki
    November 17, 2011

    Actually, Einstein’s Nobel was “for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery of the law of the photoelectric effect.”

    As I understand it, this was a compromise with some specific members of the academy who disliked relativity. Yes, the photoelectric effect would have been worth a Nobel if Einstein had never published anything else, but he did, and the people giving the award were well aware of that. By the time the prize was awarded, general relativity had explained the orbit of Mercury, and the predictions about gravity bending light had been confirmed by measurements during a solar eclipse.

    If Einstein’s Nobel had been just for the photoelectric effect, with nobody thinking about relativity, it would likely have been awarded sooner. Say, in 1916, when no prize was given.

  242. #243 Calli Arcale
    November 17, 2011

    Mr Donchiak:

    My efforts have been directed at validating the null hypothesis which says the hevea-allergens in natural-latex do not cause allergy-induced regressive autism.

    Given that you clearly did not understand what the null hypothesis was until being schooled here, yet have done no apparent work (unless you are unaccountably withholding evidence of such work) or altered your claims one jot since that time, I very much doubt that this is so.

    So put your money where your mouth is — what have you done to test this hypothesis?

  243. #244 Constant Mews
    November 17, 2011

    My efforts have been directed at validating the null hypothesis which says the hevea-allergens in natural-latex do not cause allergy-induced regressive autism.
    MjD

    No, you have not done this. This is a lie. The one thing you have demonstrated is that Michael Donchiack is a liar.

  244. #245 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 17, 2011

    Constant Mews writes (#244), “No, you have not done this. This is a lie. The one thing you have demonstrated is that Michael Donchiack is a liar”

    MjD’s response:

    Your liar, liar pants on fire attitude is disheartening.

    Please consider doing a Google search using the key words “Autism” and “Dochniak”. Much of the work I’ve done to prove the null hypothesis is well documented on the internet.

    MjD

  245. #246 Narad
    November 17, 2011

    Words like “wrong” or “right” are encompassing and absolute.

    As opposed to the careful nuance of intoning “refuse vaccines that have a latex warning” over and over again?

  246. #247 Science Mom
    November 17, 2011

    Please consider doing a Google search using the key words “Autism” and “Dochniak”. Much of the work I’ve done to prove the null hypothesis is well documented on the internet.

    No it isn’t and furthermore, in a discussion of science, you don’t pull the, “I ain’t your Googlemonkey” canard. The “internet” isn’t a valid citation, nor are there any citations for your “validation of the null” because a.)you don’t have a single shred of data and b.)you didn’t even know what the null hypothesis was until you were schooled on the last never-ending thread.

  247. #248 Gray Falcon
    November 17, 2011

    MjD, do you really think being evasive and dishonest will help your case?

  248. #249 Calli Arcale
    November 17, 2011

    Mr Donchiak:

    Please consider doing a Google search using the key words “Autism” and “Dochniak”. Much of the work I’ve done to prove the null hypothesis is well documented on the internet.

    Seriously, you don’t even know what you yourself has done? You have to ask others to Google it for you? The mind boggles.

  249. #250 lilady
    November 17, 2011

    Dochniak: You don’t need to be reminded about Chapter 1 of your book, do you? Here you lay claim to the onset of your son’s regressive autism related to an anaphylactic reaction to a balloon he came in contact with, at his 2nd birthday party:

    Chapter 1

    A time of anticipated celebration, a time of joy as brightly colored party balloons, wrapped gifts, paper plates, and inscribed napkins decorated picnic tables for family and friends gathered to share vanilla-frosted cake at Dain’s 2nd birthday. Dain playfully mouthed an inflated natural-latex balloon while others cheerfully watched and sang happy birthday. Within the balloon was an invasive danger that would soon severely threaten and change his life forever. Shortly after playing with the balloon, Dain’s health steadily regressed as his adaptive immune system recognized and attacked the natural-latex proteins that had transferred, through inhalation and dermal absorption, from the balloon and into his body. As the allergic response progressed and intensified his health worsened, frightened parents comforted their child as each labored breath failed to change the dark-purple color in his lips from oxygen starved blood. Rushed to the hospital emergency room, a nurse quickly injected adrenaline into his tiny shoulder. A mask supplied a steady stream of oxygen and intravenous tubes dripped essential fluids into his arm, rapidly turning his lips a safe pink color again allowing this atopic child to overcome a severe allergic reaction and live another day. Before leaving the hospital, a Doctor discussed his allergy situation. It was recommended that a nebulizer be used at home to relieve any recurrent asthmatic symptoms. The treatments helped his breathing but failed to address its underlying cause and progression – his adaptive immune system was hyper-active and out of control. Within a year, Dain would experience many more allergic manifestations and be diagnosed with Regressive Autism; thereafter helplessly locked forever in a world of behavioral atypicality.

    In the book titled, ‘Vaccine Delivery and Autism – The Latex Connection’ Michael believes that vaccines contributed to his son’s allergy-induced regressive autism. According to Autism Speaks, a non-profit public awareness organization, it’s estimated that one in every 110 children in the United States is diagnosed with autism and tens of millions are affected worldwide, making it more prevalent than childhood cancer, juvenile diabetes, and pediatric AIDS combined. What actually causes autism is a complex and puzzling question, but atypical immunity is known to play a dominant role. Vaccine Delivery and Autism (The Latex Connection) focuses on the allergenic proteins found in Hevea brasiliensis, a dry natural rubber (HDNR) found in some vaccine packaging and delivery systems. Along with scientific reasoning, empirical studies are used to illustrate that exposure to the allergenic proteins from HDNR can affect the incidence of atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism. However, it’s expressed that the story is a hopeful one because the allergy-induced regressive autism rate does not have to be the inevitable result of immunization. HDNR exclusionary practice will dramatically reduce cases of allergy-induced regressive autism in future generations. The book is an essential read for parents, teachers, scientists, and medical professionals. Although they are likely to feel frustrated, be moved to anger, or experience a sense of betrayal, acute awareness of this important issue can only lead to a resolution. The message is loud and clear: the use of HDNR in vaccine packaging and delivery violates the first rule of medicine–do no harm.

    Riddle:

    Who will refuse to pay the vaccine-injury bill when the gates of truth are opened?

    I questioned you about the doctor’s advice upon discharge from the E.R. … in particular the nebulizer, instead of an epipen to abort another “anaphylactic” allergic reaction to latex.

    Do you not know the difference between an asthma attack and anaphylaxis? Apparently you don’t, because you use the words “asthma” and “anaphylaxis” interchangeably in your short description of your son’s E.R. visit.

    The treating E.R. doctor, on the other hand, was very specific about the use of a nebulizer at home, to avoid other episodes of ASTHMA.

    I also suggested that perhaps the excitement of the celebration, something your son ate at his party or any number of allergens, could have “triggered” his ASTHMA attack.

    You never replied to my questions about the number of injected vaccines from vials with latex ports, in syringes with latex plungers, he had received, prior to his 2nd birthday. My estimation is 3 DPT vaccines, 4 HIB vaccines, 3 Hepatitis B vaccines and 1 MMR vaccine. Why didn’t he have an anaphylactic reaction after each of these vaccines were administered? Why didn’t he have an anaphylactic attack in the E.R. when “a nurse quickly injected adrenaline into his tiny shoulder.”?

    Why should we believe any of your statements about your son’s latex induced regressive autism, when you so obviously avoid answering these questions, lie about your son’s ASTHMA attack and cannot offer any cogent explanations for your bogus theory?

    Liar.

  250. #251 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 17, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#248), “MjD, do you really think being evasive and dishonest will help your case?”

    MjD’s response:

    In clarification the latex/autism hypotheses are as follows:

    The hypothesis says the hevea-allergens cause allergy-induced regressive autism; and

    The null hypothesis says the hevea-allergens do not cause allergy-induced autism.

    This is non-evasive and honest.

    MjD

  251. #252 Calli Arcale
    November 17, 2011

    This is non-evasive and honest.

    Really? It doesn’t even answer the question being asked — which is whether or not you have actually tested these two hypotheses as you allege. Yes, it is evasive, and no, it is not honest, as it is becoming increasingly obvious that you have done no testing of any kind.

  252. #253 Constant Mews
    November 17, 2011

    Your liar, liar pants on fire attitude is disheartening.
    Please consider doing a Google search using the key words “Autism” and “Dochniak”. Much of the work I’ve done to prove the null hypothesis is well documented on the internet.

    I have done this.

    You remain a liar. You have done NOTHING. I re-emphasize the word NOTHING to prove the null hypothesis. You don’t even really understand what a null hypothesis is to begin with.

    You remain a liar of the first order. You remain fundamentally ignorant of biology. You are a con-man and a fraud. These are matters of fact, not opinion.

  253. #254 Constant Mews
    November 17, 2011

    As a simple demonstration that Dochniak is a liar and con-man, consider the top three results of a google search on “autism” and “Dochniak”.

    His book.

    His book that contains no research. His book that makes egregious, howlingly stupid errors in basic biology and physiology. His book that was written BEFORE this thread began. His book that contains no attempt to deal with the null hypothesis.

    Dochniak is a liar and a fraud, pure and simple.

    While I appreciate the amount of time and effort being brought to the table by everyone EXCEPT Dochniak, it is time wasted: he is sufficiently ignorant of biology that he cannot be educated, and he is merely using this thread to drive up his book sales.

    His non-existent book sales, by the way. Apparently no one is interested in buying his nonsense.

  254. #255 Beamup
    November 17, 2011

    Well, you CAN’T do anything to “prove” or “validate” the null hypothesis. You either reject it, or fail to reject it. If you do reject it, then that is taken as support for your alternative hypothesis.

    MJD now apparently knows the term, but he still doesn’t understand what it means or how it’s used.

  255. #256 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 17, 2011

    Constant Mews writes (#253), “You remain a liar of the first order. You remain fundamentally ignorant of biology. You are a con-man and a fraud. These are matters of fact, not opinion.”

    MjD’s response:

    Could you be alittle more specific?

    When Orac wrote in the introduction “To all my regulars who took part in refuting Mr. Dochniak, I salute you”.

    I’m not sure your post (#253) is what he means by refuting. Although I could be wrong on that point.

    MjD

  256. #257 Constant Mews
    November 17, 2011

    Could you be alittle more specific?
    When Orac wrote in the introduction “To all my regulars who took part in refuting Mr. Dochniak, I salute you”.
    I’m not sure your post (#253) is what he means by refuting. Although I could be wrong on that point.

    Refutation of the unsupported, unverified personal opinions you offered has already been done.

    Correction of your heinous errors that indicate a fatal lack of understanding of biology coupled with gross ignorance of reason and logic has already been done.

    Demonstration that your claim that google would support that you have conducted research on your hypothesis (null or otherwise) is utterly false has now been done.

    Despite the fact that you have presented no coherent case; despite the fact that you have lied about your son’s experiences; despite the fact that you have lied about the research you have done; despite the fact that you have lied about your book; despite all this – you continue to make claims that have been falsified.

    This makes you a liar. You are here to raise your google count – but I caution you, this thread is soon going to be the first thing found in google when someone looks for you and autism.

    And it will show them three key facts: you are ignorant of science; you are a liar; and you are a fraud.

    Is that clear enough?

  257. #258 Stu
    November 17, 2011

    Non-existent book sales? I don’t think that’s true. SOMEONE bought it.

    “Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #5,968,491 in Books”

    The author bio is absolutely hilarious though.

  258. #259 Constant Mews
    November 17, 2011

    Non-existent book sales? I don’t think that’s true. SOMEONE bought it.
    “Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #5,968,491 in Books”
    The author bio is absolutely hilarious though.

    True. I was speaking in relative terms. And yes, the bio is… more sad than anything. But it does begin with yet another falsehood: “Michael J. Dochniak is a leading researcher in allergy-induce regressive autism.”

    Since he appears to be the ONLY researcher in this non-existent field, he is being too modest.

  259. #260 Stu
    November 17, 2011

    CM: what takes the cake for me though:

    You spend a few hours whipping up something to put next to the creepiest lounge-lizard magician picture you can find, talking about your high school hockey, losing track of time, losing track of your objective, when you remember that you’re here to sell your delusional books, dangit, so let’s put a firm statement up top that tells the world you’re the authority on this stuff, dangit!

    And then you make a spelling error.

    Michael J. Dochniak: liar, fraud, honorary captain of the Failboat.

  260. #261 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 17, 2011

    Constant Mews writes (#257), “And it will show them three key facts: you are ignorant of science; you are a liar; and you are a fraud.

    MjD’s response:

    Keep the FDA latex-warnings on vaccines.

    Big Pharma shift to latex-free vaccines

    Continue to keep hospitals latex free.

    Biotechnology companies continue to develop processes that remove the hevea-allergens from natural-latex.

    Dunn and Dochniak continue to research the latex/allergy-induced autism connection.

    MjD

  261. #262 Anton P. Nym
    November 17, 2011

    Four days. This has been open for only four days. And we got 261 (well, now 262) comments. Yes, half of them are from the crank in question, but still…

    This thread reminds of the advice of noted medical expert LM Bujold; “Never give aversion therapy to a masochist. The results are unpredictable.”

    — Steve

    PS: Wish I knew why I keep coming back. Well, without the enticement of popcorn anyway.

  262. #263 Constant Mews
    November 17, 2011

    Keep the FDA latex-warnings on vaccines.

    Some people are allergic. Sure.

    Big Pharma shift to latex-free vaccines

    They’ve already done that, for the most part. You’re years behind, Dochniak.

    Continue to keep hospitals latex free.

    Because some folks have allergies. Sure.

    Biotechnology companies continue to develop processes that remove the hevea-allergens from natural-latex.

    If everyone is going latex free, what’s the point? You’re asking folks to waste money? Very stupid, Dochniak.

    Dunn and Dochniak continue to research the latex/allergy-induced autism connection.

    Another lie. You are doing no research. You don’t even understand enough basic biology to DO the research.

  263. #264 lilady
    November 17, 2011

    @ Stu: You cinched it for me (Creepy Lounge Lizard)= Mandrake the Magician Comic Book Character.

    Dochniak, Why do have so much time to post here? Why don’t you get a J-O-B?

    Why don’t you help take care of your disabled child?

    Why do you persist in this totally bogus theory and lie about your child’s disability.

    Pathetic excuse for a human being…and a pathological liar, as well.

  264. #265 Matthew Cline
    November 17, 2011

    My efforts have been directed at validating the null hypothesis which says the hevea-allergens in natural-latex do not cause allergy-induced regressive autism.

    Remember, MjD thinks that “validating the null hypothesis” means “eliminating all exposure to latex, then seeing what happens”. Thus, in his world, his efforts to reduce/ban the use of latex are efforts to validate the null hypothesis.

  265. #266 Prometheus
    November 17, 2011

    Dochniak (#239):

    “My efforts have been directed at validating the null hypothesis which says the hevea-allergens in natural-latex do not cause allergy-induced regressive autism.”

    After being educated – on this ‘blog – about what a “null hypothesis” is, Mr. Dochniak now claims that he is trying to validate it. And what, exactly, is he doing to “validate the null hypothesis”?

    At the heart of the problem is Mr. Dochniak’s (mis)understanding of the word “research”.

    Simply reading (and, generally, misunderstanding) the literature is not “research”. Generating new data through experimentation – even if it is simply “data mining” already collected data in order to find new relationships and patterns – is research.

    Mr. Dochniak’s claim to be “…a leading researcher in allergy-induced regressive autism.” is utterly false because he has never done any research in that (non-existent) field. In fact, he has never done any research on autism, latex allergies or autism-related immune dysfunction…ever!

    Now, back to Mr. Dochniak’s “null hypothesis” nonsense. He claims to be working to “validate the null hypothesis”, which doesn’t make much sense.

    As he has finally figured out, the null hypothesis in this case is the hypothesis that latex exposure from latex-stoppered vaccines does not cause autism. From Mr. Dochniak’s rambling responses, it appears that he thinks eliminating latex stoppers from vaccines could somehow “validate the null hypothesis”.

    Well, if latex stoppers were eliminated from vaccines and the autism prevalence was unchanged or increased, that would be pretty solid evidence that the “null hypothesis” (i.e. that latex stoppers in vaccines do not cause autism) was correct. However, that’s not the way the “null hypothesis” is used.

    As was explained by another reader (on the previous thread), the real utility of the “null hypothesis” is a means of “screening” data. If you find data – something you discover yourself or something found by another (real) researcher – the first question has to be “Is this more consistent with the hypothesis than it is with the null hypothesis?”

    For example, if Mr. Dochniak were to read a study where some (real) researchers found that latex proteins were more allergenic than other plant sap proteins, that – on first glance – might seem to support his hypothesis. However, it also supports the null hypothesis equally well, since it says nothing about autism.

    On the other hand, if a study showed that latex allergies were more common among autistic children than the general population, that would support Mr. Dochniak’s hypothesis much better than it supports the null hypothesis.

    Clearly, the null hypothesis is yet another scientific concept that Mr. Dochniak doesn’t understand – but now it’s something the rest of you do understand.

    Prometheus

  266. #267 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 19, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#242), “I am not talking right or wrong in the moral sense, I am talking right or wrong in the “2+2=5″ sense. MjD, do you understand the concept of honesty?”

    MjD’s response:

    2+2= 5 multiplied by four then divided by five.

    When an answer to a problem is presented, there are some who are frightened and stubbornly object.

    Refuse childhood vaccines that have a latex warning and reduce the incidence of allergy-induced regressive autism in future generations.

    MjD

  267. #268 liady
    November 19, 2011

    Dochniak…your credibility is “0″ here. You failed in all respects related to your “theory”, your “research” and even your truthfulness about your child’s disability.

    Get a J.O.B., “man up” and take care of your disabled child.

    Utterly useless human being, pathetic excuse for a parent and a pathological liar.

  268. #269 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 19, 2011

    Anton P. Nym writes (#262), ” “Never give aversion therapy to a masochist. The results are unpredictable.”

    MjD’s response:

    In parallel, never give children latex contaminated vaccines. The results are unpredictable.

    MjD

  269. #270 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 19, 2011

    lilady writes (#250), “You never replied to my questions about the number of injected vaccines from vials with latex ports, in syringes with latex plungers, he had received, prior to his 2nd birthday. My estimation is 3 DPT vaccines, 4 HIB vaccines, 3 Hepatitis B vaccines and 1 MMR vaccine. Why didn’t he have an anaphylactic reaction after each of these vaccines were administered? Why didn’t he have an anaphylactic attack in the E.R. when “a nurse quickly injected adrenaline into his tiny shoulder.”?

    MjD’s response:

    It’s criminal that latex is still in some vaccines. The outcome is unpredictable.

    Thanks for your concern.

    MjD

  270. #271 lilady
    November 19, 2011

    Still not answering my questions, eh? Still an utterly useless human being, pathetic excuse for a parent and a pathological liar.

  271. #272 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 19, 2011

    It amazes me that Mikey the spammer actually quotes someone else’s quite reasonable questions to him, and follows it with “MjD’s response” where the response completely ignores the questions that he went to the trouble of quoting. It’s like the cowardly Brave Sir Robin from the Monty Python movie not just running away from danger, but having home movies taken of his cowardly retreat, and showing them to everyone wherever he goes.

  272. #273 lilady
    November 19, 2011

    @ Antaeus Feldspar: I will continue to ask those questions and Mikey will continue to avoid answering them…just as he has done since May, 2011.

  273. #275 Prometheus
    November 19, 2011

    MjD (disambiguated):

    “Refuse latex-containing vaccines!”

    “Read my book!

    “Try the veal – I’ll be here all decade (‘cuz I can’t find a job)!”

    He’s apparently decided that since he can’t dazzle us with his “fancy science talk” and we aren’t baffled by his bull**it citations, that his only recourse is to repeat – endlessly – his unsupported assertions and try to claim “victory” (see: Charlie Sheen saying “Winner!”) whenever he can misquote something that is tangentially related to latex or autism (or just allergies).

    The truly sad part is that Mr. Dochniak probably still thinks he’s right; that all of the data we’ve shown him and all of his errors we’ve pointed out are irrelevant because his cause is just, his motives pure and because he simply cannot be wrong.

    Good luck with that, Mr. Dochniak.

    Prometheus

  274. #276 blackheart
    November 21, 2011

    Obviously not a bad message

    http://www.aafa.org/display.cfm?id=9⊂=30#_ftnref10

    # 10 deaths each year are due to severe reactions to latex allergy. [10]

    “Anaphylaxis in the United States,” Archives of Internal Medicine, 2001

    Exposure to latex allergen alone is responsible for over 200 cases of anaphylaxis (severe allergic reactions) each year. [6]

    Approximately 4% of allergy sufferers have latex allergy as their primary allergy. An estimated 10% of healthcare works suffer from latex allergy.

    ———————————–

    UK Guidleines for Anaphylaxis Treatment and Response are found here …as comprehensive as any I’ve found.

    http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/reaction.pdf

    A diagnosis of anaphylactic reaction is likely if a patient who is exposed to a trigger (allergen) develops a sudden illness (usually within minutes of exposure) with rapidly progressing skin changes and life-threatening airway and/or breathing and/or circulation problems. The reaction is usually unexpected.

    The lack of any consistent clinical manifestation and a range of possible presentations cause diagnostic difficulty. Many patients with a genuine anaphylactic
    reaction are not given the correct treatment.

    ——————————

    Could save a life.

  275. #277 DrDuran
    November 21, 2011

    @Stu 260

    He’s not the Honorary captain of the Failboat, he’s the Captain of the Golgafrincham B-Ark!

  276. #278 LW
    November 21, 2011

    For those who missed it the first twenty-five times, please note that we have been reliably informed yet again that latex allergy exists and can be life-threatening. Which does not show either that the minute quantities of latex that might possibly be in a vaccine could cause or ever have caused such a result, nor that latex allergies (or any other allergies) have any causative connection to autism.

  277. #279 Narad
    November 21, 2011

    For those who missed it the first twenty-five times, please note that we have been reliably informed yet again that latex allergy exists and can be life-threatening.

    Well, sure, but the other times were unidimensional and crystallized, being of a single layer.

  278. #280 Dianne
    November 21, 2011

    I got my flu shot the other day. Because I have a mild contact sensitivity to latex, I was offered an alternative vaccine that contains no trace of latex…from a multi-dose vial that contains that evil mercury product! No hope for not becoming autistic this round, I guess.

  279. #281 Denice Walter
    November 21, 2011

    Oh well, since we’re in scifi theatre anyway…

    Let’s suppose that rates of autism have “risen” dramatically since. oh, let’s say 1994 and
    *simultaneously* medicine has greatly reduced its usage of latex ..
    which may have had a *protective* effect**. Hmmmmm?

    Devil’s advocate at your service.

    ** as I said,” in scifi theatre”.

  280. #282 LW
    November 21, 2011

    By the way, did you know lack of rock music causes asthma? It’s true.

    People with asthma have better high frequency hearing than people without. And people exposed to loud noises, like rock music, have worse high frequency hearing than people not exposed. Clearly, then, lack of rock music causes better high frequency hearing which causes asthma.

    Refuse quiet environments for your children! The outcome is unpredictable.

  281. #283 Anton P. Nym
    November 21, 2011

    Anton P. Nym writes (#262), ” “Never give aversion therapy to a masochist. The results are unpredictable.”

    MjD’s response:

    In parallel, never give children latex contaminated vaccines. The results are unpredictable.

    They’re not parallel at all. However, in order for my reply to be in parallel, I’m going to decline to say way and encourage you to buy the book to read the answer for yourself.

    Oh, and would it kill you to actually directly respond to questions instead of diverting to non sequitur territory and thereby missing the entire point? (I understand that the answer here may indeed be, “Yes,” but feel that it needs clarification even in that case.)

    — Steve (who really shouldn’t be replying, but can’t seem to help himself)

  282. #284 Constant Mews
    November 21, 2011

    2+2= 5 multiplied by four then divided by five.
    When an answer to a problem is presented, there are some who are frightened and stubbornly object.
    Refuse childhood vaccines that have a latex warning and reduce the incidence of allergy-induced regressive autism in future generations.

    Dochniak, you are a pathological liar, a fraud, and a con-man. Fortunately, that it what the web is establishing as your searchable reputation. By continuing to post here, you increase the chances that people will know that you are a liar, a fraud, and a con-man. It will decrease your book sales.

    Remember: Michael Dochniak is a liar, a fraud, and a con-man.

  283. #285 lilady
    November 21, 2011

    I’ve been waiting (since May) for the answers to my question about Dochniak lying about his child’s E.R. visit at age two.

    Why doesn’t he “man up” and admit the child had an asthma attack and not an anaphylactic episode from contact with a balloon?

    Why hasn’t Dochniak replied to my questions about exposure his 2-year-old had, to vaccines with latex stoppers…administered via syringes with latex plungers…and why didn’t he have an anaphylactic reaction to the “adrenalin” given by those same type syringes administered in the E.R. for his ASTHMA ATTACK.

    I posed another set of questions to Dochniak on November 17th:

    Dochniak, Why do have so much time to post here? Why don’t you get a J-O-B?

    Why don’t you help take care of your disabled child?

    Why do you persist in this totally bogus theory and lie about your child’s disability?

  284. #286 lilady
    November 21, 2011

    “It will decrease your book sales.”

    Has Dochniak actually sold any copies of his book?

  285. #287 LW
    November 21, 2011

    “Why don’t you get a J-O-B?”

    Because employers know how to use Google.

  286. #288 Gray Falcon
    November 21, 2011

    2+2= 5 multiplied by four then divided by five.

    Okay, did he just try to weasel his way out of elementary arithmetic? Is he aware that “5 multiplied by four then divided by five” is not the same thing as five? What was he trying to accomplish?

  287. #289 Narad
    November 21, 2011

    I’m sure it’s covered in an appendix.

  288. #290 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 24, 2011

    On this day of thanksgiving, I’d like to recognize the FDA for requiring latex-warnings on childhood vaccines.

    MjD

  289. #291 lilady
    November 24, 2011

    On this day of Thanksgiving, I’d like to thank MJD for not bothering us anymore.

  290. #292 TBruce
    November 24, 2011

    On this day of Thanksgiving, I’d like to thank MJD for not bothering us anymore.

    Oh, I don’t know about that. A turkey is always welcome on Thanksgiving.

  291. #293 T-reg
    November 24, 2011

    I wish you all a happy Thanksgiving.

  292. #294 Prometheus
    November 24, 2011

    An extensive literature search revealed three case-reports of allergic reaction in latex-sensitive patients after receiving medications (one vaccine) from latex-stoppered vials. The most recent was 1999. There is no argument that people with latex allergies might react to the infinitesimal amount of latex in a medication vial with a latex closure.

    What is still in dispute is whether latex – in any form, by any route – can cause, trigger or precipitate autism. So far, the only person advancing this claim has steadfastly resisted all requests for supporting data.

    On this holiday, let us all be thankful that we are not so rigidly dogmatic that we cannot distinguish between what we want to be true and what the data support.

    Prometheus

  293. #295 lilady
    November 24, 2011

    TBruce: You can’t soar like an eagle when you hang out with turkeys…(lyrics by Daggersmith)

  294. #296 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 25, 2011

    Promethesus writes (#294), “There is no argument that people with latex allergies might react to the infinitesimal amount of latex in a medication vial with a latex closure.”

    MjD’s response:

    The safety of even an “infinitesimal amount of latex” in a child’s vaccine is still in dispute.

    It is well known that vaccinations shift immunity towards Th2. The presence of hevea-allergen contaminants from latex, which can bind to vaccine adjuvants(e.g., aluminum hydroxide), make such vaccines a first contact situation increasing the possibility of acquiring latex sensitivity.

    MjD

  295. #297 Chris
    November 25, 2011

    Get help. Contact your local mental health outpatient clinic, please.

  296. #298 Constant Mews
    November 25, 2011

    Dochniak said:

    The safety of even an “infinitesimal amount of latex” in a child’s vaccine is still in dispute.
    It is well known that vaccinations shift immunity towards Th2. The presence of hevea-allergen contaminants from latex, which can bind to vaccine adjuvants(e.g., aluminum hydroxide), make such vaccines a first contact situation increasing the possibility of acquiring latex sensitivity.

    Which simply continues to confirm that Dochniak is a liar, fraud, and con-man; too pig-ignorant of basic biology to have an informed opinion; author of books that no one reads.

    Dochniak, you’re a liar and a fraud. You are probably mentally ill. Do get some help.

  297. #299 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 25, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#294), “There is no argument that people with latex allergies might react to the infinitesimal amount of latex in a medication vial with a latex closure.”

    MjD’s response:

    Using Prometheus’ statement as a platform, it is logical to continue with the following statements:

    1) There is no argument that children with atopy might react to the infinitesimal amount of latex in a vaccine; and

    2) There is no argument that any child might react to the infinitesimal amount of latex in a vaccine.

    Let’s be honest about latex warnings on vaccines, it’s about child safety. Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  298. #300 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 25, 2011

    Stop spamming, Mikey. Get psychological help.

  299. #301 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 25, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#294), “What is still in dispute is whether latex – in any form, by any route – can cause, trigger or precipitate autism. So far, the only person advancing this claim has steadfastly resisted all requests for supporting data.”

    MjD’s response:

    I strongly disagree and resubmit the following reference as evidence that other scientists are close to solving the mystery of autism.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20957522

    Prometheus, I’m surprised that you continue to ignored this data.

    MjD

  300. #302 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 25, 2011

    Antaeus Feldspar writes (#300), “Stop spamming, Mikey. Get psychological help.”

    MjD’s response:

    Enough with the psychological help everyone, your driving me crazy. Please…….

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.
    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.
    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  301. #304 Gray Falcon
    November 26, 2011

    MjD, you’ve posted that study dozens of times. What happened each time you did so?

  302. #305 Michael J Dochniak
    November 26, 2011

    In the site below, Sanofi Pasteur fails to disclose that latex is present in some of their child vaccines.

    http://www.vaccines.com/vaccine-safety.cfm

    Furthermore, the FDA has forced Sanofi Pasteur to place latex warnings on some of their child vaccines.

    http://vaccinenewsdaily.com/news/214867-fda-warns-of-latex-reactions-from-flu-vaccines

    It’s apparent that Sanofi Pasteur continues to ignore the adverse health affects of latex tainted vaccines (e.g., allergy-induced regressive autism).

    MjD

  303. #306 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 26, 2011

    Stop spamming, Mikey. Get professional help.

  304. #307 Science Mom
    November 26, 2011

    Prometheus, I’m surprised that you continue to ignored this data.

    He hasn’t ignored it at all, in fact has thoroughly disproven that it has anything to do with latex allergies causing autism. A simple fact that you continue to ignore.

  305. #308 Prometheus
    November 26, 2011

    MjD (again):

    “Prometheus, I’m surprised that you continue to ignored this data [Shen et al, 2011].”

    Mr. Dochniak, I’m surprised that you don’t recall that I’ve addressed the Shen et al (2011) study no less than three times. Do you have some sort of memory problem? I’ll go through it one last time, so pay attention and take notes.

    Shen et al studies a single Chinese family with three autistic children (2 male, 1 female) and three “neurotypical” children (all female). The authors took B-lymphocytes from each child and immortalised them with EBV to establish cell cultures. They then extracted the proteins from the cells and analysed them using a 500 spot antibody microarray chipset from Clontech.

    They then compared two sets of siblings – a 3 yr-old autistic female with a 2 yr-old non-autistic female and a 4 yr-old autistic male with a 5 yr-old non-autistic female. They give no explanation why the 1 yr-old non-autistic female and the 6 yr-old autistic male were not part of any comparison, or why they didn’t do cross-comparisons, but suffice it to say that these omissions do not help the validity of their conclusions.

    From these pairwise comparisons, they found several dozen proteins that were present in different amounts (39 in the first pair; 92 in the second pair); however, only four were common between the two pairs. That is, although comparing one autistic sibling to one non-autistic sibling generated a set of over thirty proteins that had different concentrations, the two sets only had four proteins in common. And remember, there were two siblings whose results were never compared (or were compared but were not reported).

    They also measured the total IgE levels – in the lysate of the cultured B-lymphocytes – but apparently not in the children’s blood. And they don’t mention if this IgE had any unusual affinity for latex proteins – a significant oversight, given their later claims.

    So far, so bad. The authors of Shen et al have committed the usual errors of “newby” microarray users. But then they step off the precipice and claim – based solely on the fact that the parents own a natural rubber production company, that latex exposure caused the observed differences and – even more surprisingly – resulted in autism.

    This is a “bridge too far” by any measure. Even arguing that autism is the cause of the observed protein concentration differences is quite a stretch, since they only showed two pairwise comparisons. To even make the claim that there is a difference (let alone causation) would require showing that the differences between the non-autistic and autistic siblings (all of them) was greater than the difference within the two groups – which they most certainly did not show.

    To then leap to the remarkable claim that latex exposure might be the cause of autism, based on this flimsy data, is beyond “a bridge too far” – it is as if the Allies, instead of trying to capture the Arnhem bridge in Holland, had planned to capture the Moltke bridge in Berlin.

    It is more likely that the results the authors report, if they are not spurious, show that autism causes immune system abnormalities, not that it is caused by them. Far more likely, given the things the authors do not report, is that their findings are spurious. Given the problems in the experimental design and the extremely small number of subjects, it would be charitable to call their results, “provisional”. This is probably why they refer to their study – in the title of the article – as a “pilot study”.

    Despite all this – and despite having been told all this before – Mr. Dochinak continues to make this study the linch-pin of his argument. I suspect it is because Shen et al flattered Mr. Dochniak by citing his fact-free 2007 Medical Hypotheses “study”.

    So, Mr. Dochniak, I haven’t “ignored” the data – I’ve discussed it and shown you why it isn’t relevant to your claims. No doubt your response will be:

    “Refuse latex-containing vaccines!”

    “Read my book!”

    “Prometheus is a poopy-head!”

    Standing by for predictable non sequitur from MjD.

    Prometheus

    P.S.: I’ve finally given up and ordered Mr. Dochniak’s book. I will not only be reading it, I will be posting a detailed discussion of the book on my ‘blog. Be careful what you wish for, Mr. Dochniak.

  306. #309 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 26, 2011

    Science Mom writes (#307), “He (Prometheus) hasn’t ignored it at all, in fact has thoroughly disproven that it has anything to do with latex allergies causing autism. A simple fact that you continue to ignore.”

    MjD’s response:

    I know Prometheus is a smart man but he hasn’t, in my opinion, thoroughly disproven the the hevea-allergens cause atypical immunity and a subset of autism which has been described as allergy-induced regressive autism. In the contrary, Prometheus has eloquently used the phrase “still in dispute” (#294).

    Science Mom, when are you going to try and thoroughly disprove the latex/autism connection on your exciting vaccine blog titled “Just the Vax”?

    MjD

  307. #310 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 26, 2011

    Dear Prometheus,

    In message #294 you state, “What is still in dispute is whether latex – in any form, by any route – can cause, trigger or precipitate autism. So far, the only person advancing this claim has steadfastly resisted all requests for supporting data.”

    It appears your the one who has forgotten that Shen et al., (2011) are scientists also acquiring data on the latex/autism connection. See Prometheus’ rant in message #308.

    I’m not the only one Prometheus XVI.

    MjD

  308. #311 Chris
    November 26, 2011

    Get some real psychiatric help, Mr. Dochniak.

  309. #312 The Christian Cynic
    November 26, 2011

    Anyone else think of this?

  310. #313 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 26, 2011

    A poem to help reduce the tension:

    Allergy-induced regressive autism within
    If we continue to ignore latex-contaminated vaccine spin
    Failure to adapt
    Failure to comprehend
    Mankind gets confused, in the mind with time
    Earth becomes a prison of tainted vaccines

    MJD

  311. #314 W. Kevin Vicklund
    November 26, 2011

    It appears your the one who has forgotten that Shen et al., (2011) are scientists also acquiring data on the latex/autism connection.

    No, it appears that Shen et al. are scientists who forgot to acquire data on the (imagined) latex/autism connection.

  312. #315 Gray Falcon
    November 26, 2011

    MjD, do you understand how evidence works? Here’s an example: If I accused you of committing murder, would it be up to you to prove your innocence, or me to prove your guilt?

  313. #316 The Christian Cynic
    November 27, 2011

    That may be the worst poem I’ve ever read. Wow.

  314. #317 herr doktor bimler
    November 27, 2011

    The Latex theory and the equally-plausible Poinsettia theory now receive some blog-space here:
    http://eusa-riddled.blogspot.com/2011/11/rubber-baby-buggy-bumpers.html

  315. #318 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 27, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#), “I’ve finally given up and ordered Mr. Dochniak’s book. I will not only be reading it, I will be posting a detailed discussion of the book on my ‘blog. Be careful what you wish for, Mr. Dochniak.”

    MjD’s response:

    Hevea brasiliensis natural-rubber (i.e., natural latex) is a monumental medical-disaster.

    Soon, we’ll read in the blog “Photon in the Darkness” if Prometheus has the courage to confront it.

    MjD

  316. #319 Prometheus
    November 27, 2011

    MjD (#310):

    “It appears your [sic] the one who has forgotten that Shen et al., (2011) are scientists also acquiring data on the latex/autism connection.”

    See my critique of their conclusions at #308. In short, their data do not support the conclusion that latex causes autism, something they obliquely acknowledge in their discussion.

    MjD (#318):

    “Hevea brasiliensis natural-rubber (i.e., natural latex) is a monumental medical-disaster. Soon, we’ll read in the blog ‘Photon in the Darkness’ if Prometheus has the courage to confront it.”

    Mr. Dochniak seems to be “framing” this in such a way that if I fail to agree with his “hypothesis” after reading his book, it will reflect a lack of courage on my part rather than a lack of data on his part.

    Nice try, Mr. Dochniak, but you can’t make this about whether or not I have the “courage” to accept your “truth”. If you can’t support your assertions on this ‘blog, I seriously doubt that you will have supported them in your book.

    However, I intend to give Mr. Dochniak’s book a fair reading and then critique how well it supports the assertions he makes. “Courage” is not required, as I intend to let the chips fall where they may. If – contrary to all impressions he has made on this ‘blog – the book presents data that support Mr. Dochniak’s assertions, I will put that on my ‘blog.

    Mr. Dochniak keeps trying to make this about personalities and “feelings”, which it is not. I don’t care if Mr. Dochniak is a loathsome human being or a saint – if he doesn’t have data to support his arguments, they are just his opinion and worth no more attention than his preferences in food or drink. If he does have data to support his arguments, then we have something to discuss.

    To date, the “data” he has brought to the table have been lacking – I can only hope (against all reason) that his book has more substance than his arguments on this ‘bog.

    Prometheus

  317. #320 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 27, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#319), “Mr. Dochniak keeps trying to make this about personalities and “feelings”, which it is not. I don’t care if Mr. Dochniak is a loathsome human being or a saint – if he doesn’t have data to support his arguments, they are just his opinion and worth no more attention than his preferences in food or drink.”

    MjD’s response:

    Enough said, read the book.

    MjD

  318. #321 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 28, 2011
  319. #322 Prometheus
    November 28, 2011

    MjD (#321):

    “lilady, can you politely tell me what this individual is trying to say?”

    Well, I’m not “lilady”, but I’ll take a stab at it.

    Dr. Gernsbacher, in this article in APS, is saying that people who graduate with a bachelor’s degree in psychology should have learned all of the things she outlines, including how to not confuse correlation with causation, the impact of a small sample size and sampling biases on validity, etc.

    Clearly, as we have seen on this ‘blog, not every psychology major learned these things, even though they may have been taught them.

    Prometheus

  320. #323 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 28, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#322), “…how to not confuse correlation with causation, the impact of a small sample size and sampling biases on validity, etc.”

    MjD’s response:

    A nurse acquaintence of mine here in Minnesota has 4 children wherein 3 are autistic (2 girls, 1 boy). As a nurse she was often exposed to the hevea-allergens and the children were most likely immunized with vaccines inclusive with latex. Based on recent evidence that atypical immunity (i.e., latex sensitivity) can affect neurological development, it’s reasonable to hypothesize that repeated hevea-allergen exposure during pregnancy, and during infancy, may have affected the occurance of autism in this family.

    MjD

  321. #324 Mrs. Woo
    November 28, 2011

    Mr. MjD – are you providing an example to Prometheus to demonstrate you understand “confuse correlation with causation” or to demonstrate you understand what “small sample size” means in “the impact of a small sample size and sampling biases”?

    Wait! I’m sorry – you were demonstrating “sampling biases” for him to be sure you understand the point. My bad.

    I expected to see you again – you are doing your level best to live up to “thread that never ends.” Hope you enjoyed the Thanksgiving holiday? My autistic grandson spent the entire weekend with us – I forgot how much he can wear me out!

    Oh – by the way – to the best of my knowledge he has no latex issues…

    Mrs Woo

  322. #325 Prometheus
    November 28, 2011

    MjD (#323):

    “A nurse acquaintence of mine here in Minnesota has 4 children wherein 3 are autistic (2 girls, 1 boy). As a nurse she was often exposed to the hevea-allergens and the children were most likely immunized with vaccines inclusive with latex.”

    I wasn’t going to come right out and say that Mr. Dochniak was one of those psychology undergrads who didn’t learn the lessons Dr. Gernsbacher discussed, but here he goes out of his way to show that he understands neither “correlation does not equal causation” nor the effect of a sample size of one.

    As a thought experiment, consider how Mr. Dochniak’s anecdote would be equally supportive of the hypothesis that autism is the result of genetics.

    Prometheus

  323. #326 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
    November 28, 2011

    A nurse acquaintence of mine here in Minnesota has 4 children wherein 3 are autistic (2 girls, 1 boy). As a nurse she was often exposed to the hevea-allergens and the children were most likely immunized with vaccines inclusive with latex.

    Hey, I’ve got a correlation for you—they all had the same mother! (And more than likely, father.) Since autism is genetic or congenital* in most cases, I don’t think we need to look any farther.

    *A point some people miss is that the trait of providing an intrauterine environment conducive to autism can also be genetic, and come from either parent.

  324. #327 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 28, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#325), “As a thought experiment, consider how Mr. Dochniak’s anecdote would be equally supportive of the hypothesis that autism is the result of genetics.”

    MjD’s response:

    To my knowledge, there is no diagnosis of autism in past family history.

    Genetic – Unlikely

    Epigenetic – Maybe

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  325. #328 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
    November 28, 2011

    As a thought experiment, consider how Mr. Dochniak’s anecdote would be equally supportive of the hypothesis that autism is the result of genetics.

    When my comment saying the same thing comes out of moderation, I really wasn’t just trying to echo you….

  326. #329 Gray Falcon
    November 28, 2011

    @326: That still doesn’t rule out you as a potential cause of autism. By your standards, the best way to test this is to kill you and see what happens.

  327. #330 Mrs. Woo
    November 28, 2011

    Mr MjD, I am just some uneducated person who is easily taken advantage of by manipulative critters of all sorts (including an incredibly intelligent chicken at the moment), but when researchers consider whether or not there might be a genetic link for my illness they look for “first degree relatives.”

    My sister is showing similar symptoms. This would suggest that the type of illness I have (there have also been discussions that more than one illness is under the diagnostic umbrella). Does this explanation help you at all to understand what Prometheus has suggested regarding a genetic component?

    If you are incapable of grasping these subtleties how can you insist your book contains anything that has been studied without bias?

  328. #331 Prometheus
    November 28, 2011

    MjD (#326):

    “To my knowledge, there is no diagnosis of autism in past family history.”

    Not surprising, since genome-wide studies suggest that de novo mutations are the most common cause of autism. The point is that Mr. Dochniak’s anecdote – like all the rest of his “supporting material” – supports hypotheses that don’t involve latex just as well as it supports his hypothesis.

    The exposure to latex from vaccines and exam gloves (which have been nitrile for many years) is so ubiquitous that it simply doesn’t add anything to the anecdote. His arguments – such as they are – could apply equally well (or equally poorly) if he was claiming that exposure to soy protein, Alternaria spores, cell phone radio emissions or reality TV were the cause of “regressive autism”.

    Now, I fully expect that – as he did after I responded to his comment #321 – Mr. Dochniak will come back with some sort of snappy, perhaps rhyming, rejoinder that will be a complete non sequitur and end with some variation on “Latex in vaccines causes autism! Refuse latex-containing vaccines!”.

    Show the courage to prove me wrong, Mr. Dochniak!

    Prometheus

  329. #332 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 28, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#330), “The exposure to latex from vaccines and exam gloves (which have been nitrile for many years) is so ubiquitous that it simply doesn’t add anything to the anecdote.”

    MjD’s response:

    I recall that you’ve disclosed reading part of the Nova Science book “Allergies and Autism”.

    In the book, the authors discuss how the timing, frequency, intensity, and types of exposure to H. brasiliensis natural latex affects the incidence of allergy-induced regressive autism.

    Comorbid factors including viral insult and bacterial insult (including vaccinations) may affect adaptive-immunity responsiveness to hevea-allergen exposure.

    Prometheus, I recommend you re-visit this book before diving into the book “Vaccine Delivery and Autism – The latex connection”.

    Sincerely,

    Michael J. Dochniak

  330. #333 Mrs. Woo
    November 28, 2011

    @Prometheus – at this point I can’t figure out if he does what is predicted because he can’t help himself or if it amuses him to do as you expect.

  331. #334 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 28, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#328), “That still doesn’t rule out you as a potential cause of autism. By your standards, the best way to test this is to kill you and see what happens.

    MjD’s response:

    I don’t want to die from the piercing of your talons. You are meant for greater things, Gray Falcon

    MjD

  332. #335 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 29, 2011

    Two pioneering models of evolutionary theory, Darwinian/Wallace selection and Mendelian genetics, have failed to shed light on the cause of autism spectrum disorders (ASD).

    Charles Darwin conceded that natural selection is not the sole mechanism of evolutionary change and Alfred Wallace asserted that natural selection could not account for the human brain.

    Gregory Mendel’s genetic models of evolution and modern genetic-research techniques have failed to decipher the genetic code(s) in that a Mendelian (single-gene) mutation or a single chromosome abnormality has not been discovered.

    Adaptive immunity is a model that can be used to shed light on the evolution of ASD. Specifically, atypical expression of endogenous proteins from repeated adaptive immune-responses can affect neurological development and cognition.

    MjD

  333. #336 Gray Falcon
    November 29, 2011

    I don’t want to die from the piercing of your talons. You are meant for greater things, Gray Falcon

    Not my idea, yours. Remember, you suggested that banning latex was the best way of testing your hypothesis, rather than examining data.

  334. #337 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 29, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#336), “Remember, you suggested that banning latex was the best way of testing your hypothesis, rather than examining data.”

    MjD’s response:

    In science, examining data means studying those adversely affected.

    Medical science has already conclusively shown that the hevea-allergens are dangerous.

    It is humanistic, and technically possible, to make an effort to reduce the number of individuals harmed by natural-latex exposure.

    Step #1: Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  335. #338 Gray Falcon
    November 29, 2011

    No, step one is to determine whether there’s a problem or not. Perhaps this is why you don’t have a job. Your standard of quality is “cut first, then measure”.

  336. #339 Prometheus
    November 29, 2011

    Mrs. Woo (#333):

    “@Prometheus – at this point I can’t figure out if he does what is predicted because he can’t help himself or if it amuses him to do as you expect.”

    I’ve concluded that Mr. Dochniak simply doesn’t have the flexibility to alter his behavior patterns. He was responding in highly stereotyped fashion before I started predicting his responses – that’s how I was able to predict them in the first place.

    MjD (#335):

    “Charles Darwin conceded that natural selection is not the sole mechanism of evolutionary change and Alfred Wallace asserted that natural selection could not account for the human brain.”

    Charles Darwin (1809 – 1882)
    Alfred Wallace (1823 – 1913)

    “Gregory [sic] Mendel’s genetic models of evolution and modern genetic-research techniques have failed to decipher the genetic code(s) in that a Mendelian (single-gene) mutation or a single chromosome abnormality has not been discovered.”

    Gregor Mendel (1822 – 1884)

    Although it is beyond the scope of a single comment to cover the developments in evolution, neurodevelopment and genetics from the late 19th century to today, let me start by saying that a lot has been learned since Darwin, Mendel and Wallace made their landmark discoveries. In fact, much of what has been learned since the 19th century is that evolution, development and genetics are not as simple as early scientists/naturalists once thought.

    I’d like to encourage Mr. Dochniak to embrace the work of the the 20th and 21st centuries; in particular, I’d suggest he read the following papers (both are available free on-line):

    Girirajan S, et al. Relative Burden of Large CNVs on a Range of Neurodevelopmental Phenotypes. PLoS Genet. 2011 Nov;7(11):e1002334.

    Pinto D, et al. Functional impact of global rare copy number variation in autism spectrum disorders. Nature. 2010 Jul 15;466(7304):368-72.

    Even if he doesn’t understand these papers – which I expect – they should give him a feeling for how much more complex the field of genetics has become since Gregor Mendel’s time. In other words, the lack of a strictly “Mendelian” genetic model or a single “autism gene” does not mean that autism is not largely or even entirely genetic.

    Prometheus

  337. #340 Mrs. Woo
    November 29, 2011

    Isn’t this kind of rigidity sometimes a symptom of autism spectrum disorders? I know that no one can diagnose someone via internet, but since he has an autistic child…

    You have to wonder in the end, you know?

  338. #341 Constant Mews
    November 29, 2011

    And Dochniak, liar, fraud, and con-man, continues his endlessly repetitive posts. Contributing nothing, merely shilling for a book that will continue to tank, since he provides no reason to suppose that his suppositions and claims are true.

    Michael J Dochniak. Liar. Fraud. Con-man. In serious need of mental help.

  339. #342 Th1Th2bot Service Center
    November 29, 2011

    MJD, wouldn’t you like to free yourself from this daily drudgery? We may be able to hook you up with an automated solution! This proven technology has low startup costs and requires no long-term maintenance contract. Drop us a line.

  340. #343 lilady
    November 29, 2011

    @ Th1Th2bot Service Center: I’ll be watching for Dochniak’s agreement. If it isn’t forthcoming promptly…I’ll be back urging the Service Center to proceed with a trial run.

  341. #344 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 30, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#338), “Perhaps this is why you don’t have a job.”

    MjD’s response:

    A Gray Falcon chooses when to fly and so do I.

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  342. #345 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 30, 2011

    Prometheus writes (#339). “Even if he doesn’t understand these papers – which I expect – they should give him a feeling for how much more complex the field of genetics has become since Gregor Mendel’s time.

    MjD’s response:

    Let’s simplify, genes tell a cell how to make proteins. Each gene is a set of instructions for making one specific protein.

    The dramatic incease in ASD over the last ~30-years indicates a non-genetic factor (i.e., environmental insult).

    The hevea-allergens from natural-latex have been dramatically introduced, in the health care industry, over the last about 30-40 years (e.g., increased vaccinations wherein latex is inclusive).

    Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.

    MjD

  343. #346 Renate
    November 30, 2011

    MjD
    Things happening in the same period don’t have to be related.

  344. #347 Mrs. Woo
    November 30, 2011

    “correlation does not equate to causality”

    Mr MjD, at very least I can thank you for your dogged determination. It has given the educated ones plenty of opportunities to demonstrate the skewed thinking approaches of someone who is not approaching a topic scientifically.

    I do not doubt that you believe latex causes autism. However, I believe you started with that belief and then grasped every possible thing you could lay hands on to assure yourself your belief was true, rather than starting with a “I wonder if?” and then choosing scientific methods to determine if there was any basis in fact.

    Thank you, everyone, for the education I’ve received as I’ve watched “the thread that never ends” – at this point, though, I think at this point it’s almost as interesting as those soap opera thingies my grandma used to watch.

  345. #348 Michael J. Dochniak
    November 30, 2011

    Renate writes (#346), “Things happening in the same period don’t have to be related.”

    MjD’s response:

    A quote from a famous American Statistician:

    “Correlation is not causation but it sure is a hint.”

    MjD

  346. #349 Gray Falcon
    November 30, 2011

    A hint isn’t enough to justify prosecution on its own.

  347. #350 Michael J. Dochniak
    December 1, 2011

    Gray Falcon writes (#349), “A hint isn’t enough to justify prosecution on its own.”

    MjD’s response:

    In my opinion, a hint is absolutely justification when exposure to the hevea-allergens can adversely affect cognition and behaviors in atopic children (i.e., allergy-induced regressive autism).

    MjD

  348. #351 Prometheus
    December 1, 2011

    MjD (#345):

    “Let’s simplify, genes tell a cell how to make proteins. Each gene is a set of instructions for making one specific protein.”

    That’s a quaint description of molecular genetics, one that was obsolete after 1977 (see: introns). In most eukaryotes (like us), alternative splicing of mRNA means that one gene can code for many different proteins. In addition, some genes code for functional RNA, like ribosomal RNA, small nucleolar RNA, ribozymes and regulatory RNA.

    Again, even though Mr. Dochniak can’t understand the genetics of autism – as it is currently known – he should be able to see that it is much more complex than his simplistic description.

    “The dramatic incease [sic] in ASD over the last ~30-years indicates a non-genetic factor (i.e., environmental insult).”

    “Environmental insult” isn’t the only non-genetic factor that might have caused a “dramatic increase in ASD over the last 30 years”>, so that “i.e.” should have been an “e.g.“. Other, equally plausible (if not more plausible) explanations include:

    [1] Changing diagnostic and assessment criteria (most data is administrative, so not technically a “diagnosis). The definition of “autism” has braodened dramatically in the past thirty years and the term “autistic spectrum disorder” is so broad as to include almost anyone. At least one study has shown that as the prevalence of autism has increased, the severity (as measured by number of people with “low IQ”) has undergone a simultaneous decrease.

    [2] Category shifting – if you look at “autism” and “mental retardation” in the US Dept. of Education data, the rise in autism has been exactly paralleled by an equal drop in the number of children classified as “mentally retarded”.

    Mr. Dochinak, you need to keep an open mind to the possibility that your beliefs are not supported by the available data.

    Prometheus

  349. #352 Vicki
    December 1, 2011

    Also, even if there was good evidence for an increase in autism, and that the cause of that was an environmental insult, it doesn’t follow that said cause has anything to do with either vaccines or latex. When I think about the differences between 1981 and today, amount of latex isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. Yes, more people are using condoms than in 1981; we’re also spending more of the day looking at backlit screens. (Even if you’ve been turning the television on as soon as you got home for the last 30 years, the job you’re getting home from is a lot more likely to involve a screen than the one you’d have come home from then.) Mr Dochniak, have you investigated levels of hormones and medication in the drinking water supply over this time period? The environment does not consist of a fixed set of activities, with air and water pollution level unchanged in every way, except for a varying level of latex.

  350. #353 Denice Walter
    December 1, 2011

    Here’s a parallel from Fuller Torrey:
    two western countries have *slightly* different rates of a SMI- 1% vs 1.5%. Does that mean that there are differing rates of this condition in those two places- perhaps due to differing genetic and/or environmental influences ?

    No, it means that they *draw the line* between the SMI and its related but less serious version *at different places*. They *define* the two related conditions in slightly differing ways and yes, it *adds up*: Country A has more of the serious form and less of the other, Country B the converse ( I’m simplifying, of course).

  351. #354 Antaeus Feldspar
    December 1, 2011

    In my opinion, a hint is absolutely justification when exposure to the hevea-allergens can adversely affect cognition and behaviors in atopic children (i.e., allergy-induced regressive autism).

    Okay, I used to think Mikey was just delusional. Now I think he’s delusional and drunk. How much more obvious can the circular logic be? You can’t use “allergies cause autism” as your justification for jumping to the conclusion that allergies cause autism! Mikey would look less stupid here if he was citing the Ouija Board as his source!

  352. #355 Michael J. Dochniak
    December 1, 2011

    Antaeus Feldspar writes (#354), “You can’t use “allergies cause autism” as your justification for jumping to the conclusion that allergies cause autism!”

    MjD’s response:

    What actually causes autism is a complex and puzzling question, but atypical immunity is known to play a dominant role. Vaccine Delivery and Autism (The Latex Connection) focuses on the allergenic proteins found in Hevea brasiliensis, a dry natural rubber (HDNR) found in some vaccine packaging and delivery systems. Along with scientific reasoning, empirical studies are used to illustrate that exposure to the allergenic proteins from HDNR affect the incidence of atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism.

    MjD

  353. #356 Science Mom
    December 1, 2011

    Along with scientific reasoning, empirical studies are used to illustrate that exposure to the allergenic proteins from HDNR affect the incidence of atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism.

    Oh this is a keeper. Only in Dochniak’s mind can he claim the use of scientific reasoning and empirical studies for his ludicrous claim.

  354. #357 Antaeus Feldspar
    December 1, 2011

    What actually causes autism is a complex and puzzling question, but atypical immunity is is not known to play a dominant any role.

    FTFY.

  355. #358 Constant Mews
    December 1, 2011

    And Dochniak, liar, fraud, and con-man, continues his endlessly repetitive posts. Contributing nothing, merely shilling for a book that will continue to tank, since he provides no reason to suppose that his suppositions and claims are true.

    Michael J Dochniak. Liar. Fraud. Con-man.

    In serious need of mental help.

  356. #359 Prometheus
    December 1, 2011

    I’ve just posted the first part of a two- (or three-) part review of Mr. Dochniak’s latest book. The first part covers the setting events that led up to my review and some general comments about the book – I’ll get into the meat of the “science” in the next part(s).

    Feel free to comment, but be warned that I moderate all comments because my spam-to-comment ratio, even with a good spam filter, is pretty high.

    Enjoy!

    Prometheus

  357. #360 Lawrence
    December 1, 2011

    Prometheus – you are a brave man wading into that garbage. Given what you’ve written already, it is very likely (if not incredibly obvious) that MjD is merely copying & pasting lines from his book in response to the postings here, without actually reading the content that refutes point after point of his argument.

    I look forward to seeing the next part – and MjD’s response.

  358. #361 Narad
    December 1, 2011

    Oh, G-d, the poetry is coming from inside the book!

  359. #362 Prometheus
    December 1, 2011

    Narad,

    Yes, much of the “poetry” that Mr. Dochniak has posted in his comments – not to mention most of the “pithy” one-liners and almost all of “meat” of his comments – is copypasta from his book.

    I’m not an expert in computer science, but it seems that “Mr. Dochniak” could be a ‘bot that looks for themes in ‘blog threads and then pastes in the corresponding bits from the Dochniak/Dunn book.

    For everyone who has followed this thread since the original May post, it looks as though “Mr. Dochniak” has posted almost his entire book in his comments.

    I’ll try to get the next installment of my review out as soon as possible, but first I need to get rid of this pounding headache.

    Prometheus

  360. #363 Orac
    December 2, 2011

    Time to shut down another thread, it looks like. Have fun here, everyone:

    http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=243