Respectful Insolence

One last example of crank magnetism for 2011

OK, I know I said that this morning’s post would likely be the last post of 2011, but then–wouldn’t you know it?–the antivaccine crank blog Age of Autism had to go and post a post entitled AAPS on Vaccine Exemptions. I think it deserves a brief mention today for the simple reason that it’s a perfect example of crank magnetism. It makes a lot of sense that Anne Dachel of AoA would be very impressed by the sorts of things that Dr. Jane Orient, the current president of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) because, well, the AAPS is a crank organization every bit as cranky as Generation Rescue, Safeminds, and other antivaccine groups.

Don’t believe me? It’s not as though I haven’t written about the AAPS and its journal the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (JPANDS) before. Basically, the AAPS is known for being against vaccine mandates, against Medicare (calling it “unconstitutional”), and against any form of regulation of health care by government. It’s called public health programs “tyranny.” Showing that it, too, demonstrates crank magnetism every bit as strong as that of AoA, the AAPS has published bad papers claiming to find that abortion causes breast cancer, has promoted the vile idea that shaken baby syndrome is a misdiagnosis for “vaccine injury,” supported HIV/AIDS denialism, and (of course!) done what all crank medical organizations like to do, attack evidence- and science-based medicine as placing unacceptable limits on physician autonomy. Perhaps my favorite example of AAPS crankery is when it published a blog post (now removed, no doubt in embarrassment) claiming that then-candidate Barack Obama was possibly “deliberately using the techniques of neurolinguistic programming (NLP), a covert form of hypnosis.” The AAPS doesn’t even limit itself to medicine in that it’s also published papers attacking anthropogenic global warming, as though physicians had the necessary expertise to judge the science in that field. Truly, the crank magnetism and arrogance of the AAPS know no bounds.


Consistent with its previous stands, the interview that Dachel is so impressed with pulls out all the old “health freedom” tropes and cherry picks the literature to try to argue that flu vaccine mandates for health care workers are affronts to freedom and in general just to attack the flu vaccine. Dr. Orient trots out–of course–”brave maverick” doctor Tom Jefferson, who’s well known for saying one thing about flu vaccines in his Cochrane reviews and saying other things in public interviews. Mark Crislip, as usual, did a great job deconstructing Dr. Jefferson’s biased views a couple of years ago.

Of course, maybe Dachel knows that the AAPS is a crank organization. Here’s how she cites part of the press release:

Many repeated doses of similar vaccines likely increase the risk of allergic reactions, and no data exist on the safety of a large number of doses, states Dr. Orient, citing a 2006 article in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons.

Dachel left something out, though. What did she leave out? The actual article that Dr. Orient cited, that’s what, which is right there in the press release. That article is Influenza Vaccine: Review of Effectiveness of the U.S. Immunization Program, and Policy Considerations. And who are the authors?

Mark and David Geier, plus Paul King, antivaccine “scientists” all. The Geiers, in particular, are known for using chemical castration to treat autistic children and whose papers full of bad science, bad analysis, and pseudoscience I have deconstructed many, many times on this blog over the last seven years. One wonders why Dachel left that out of the passage she cited. I don’t have a lot of time to do an in-depth analysis of the paper, but it can best be characterized as being of similar quality to other papers published by the Geiers, except that it wasn’t even good enough to be published anywhere except JPANDS.

Dachel didn’t mention the specific JPANDS paper cited by Dr. Orient (in marked contrast to her including the link to a paper by Tom Jefferson’s group in the text she cited), but she did very much like how Dr. Orient, consistent with past statements by the AAPS, referred to evidence-based medicine as “authority-based medicine.”

No wonder Dachel is so impressed the AAPS. Crank magnetism lives on.

Comments

  1. #1 daijiyobu
    December 31, 2011

    Not to politicize things too much, but merely as an observation of the extreme fringe, this journal seems like the Ron Paul of journals:

    ‘libertarian’ to the point of anti-societal.

    -r.c.

  2. #2 herr doktor bimler
    December 31, 2011

    this journal seems like the Ron Paul of journals

    Ron Paul is indeed a proud member of the AAPS, and presumably accepts the editorial stance of its journal.

  3. #3 herr doktor bimler
    December 31, 2011

    Is the AAPS also against water fluoridation? Google says Yes! Crank-magnetism Bingo!
    Think of the John Birch society, with a stethoscope.

  4. #4 lilady
    December 31, 2011

    Not to politicize…

    I just saw Al Hunt interviewing Ron Paul on Bloomberg Television and I think he is an affable humble type of guy…with none of the posturing egocentric traits of the other candidates.

    I think I would like to have him as a neighbor…but he’s still a crazy old coot. I think I’ll stick with my guy, Barack Obama.

  5. #5 Ross Coe
    December 31, 2011

    Anyone with a working brain can see ORAC makes other “CRANKS” look amateur. ORAC is king of CRANK

  6. #6 Novae
    December 31, 2011

    Oh, good. I can come here for homeopathy *and* Ron Paul catharsis.

  7. #7 symball
    December 31, 2011

    you had me going for a minute there- I thought you were talking about this AAPS

    http://www.aaps.org

    a rather more sensible group of scientists. I wonder why the cranks didn’t come up with a different acronym, surely they don’t want to get confused with a bunch of pharma shills.

  8. #8 Anj
    December 31, 2011

    Yes, I had to look up the AAPS since it showed up on AoA so often. The name is impressive, I give them that.

    When I read between the lines, I see doctors who don’t want most forms of oversight. They want to practice as they see fit without any strings attached. What is their stand on carrying malpractice insurance?

    (If I get any more cynical, I may start translating “tort reform” to “no malpractice insurance!”.)

  9. #9 lilady
    December 31, 2011

    I went through the Dachel article and she did deliberately omit the citation of the Geiers old study. Of course AoA will never publicly disavow the Geier VAERS dumpster diving tag team…not when they promoted other bogus studies done by daddy and baby Geier.

    I must sign off for now…traveling a bit to celebrate the New Year with friends.

    Happy New Year to all.

  10. #10 Denice Walter
    December 31, 2011

    Oh lord!
    According to comments following Dachel’s post, *adults* should become jabophobic for *themselves* as well as for their children: one described a nurse who developed various psychological symptoms post-vaccination ( flu, hepB) while the other mentions a nursing home employee currently suffering from dementia- which looks like autism, we’re told.

    These complaints are not news to me: those I survey have been carping about flu vaccination for years. Mike Adams has gone absolutely loony about chain stores offering flu shots. Gary Null has opposed mandatory flu vaccines for health care workers, speaking out histrionically on the steps of the NY state capitol, lovingly preserved for posterity through the miracle of video.

    All of which clues me in to their basic mistrust of all vaccines and their tendency to attribute any ills that occur in a vaccinated person (or an *unvaccinated* child whose mother *was*) to the vaccines.
    Thus anti-vaxxers expand their parvenu in two directions: vaccines cause more than autism *and* other toxins in the environment cause autism and other ills ( see the Canary Party).

  11. #11 NotTelling
    December 31, 2011

    And don’t forget all of you sycophants all crawling to shove your heads up Mr Orac’s ass. Can’t think of a better example of crank magnetism than that. Especially considering how much of a quack he is.

  12. #12 novalox
    December 31, 2011

    @ross coe, nottelling

    Yawn, typical unintelligent ad hominem from two anti-vax idiots.

    Color me unimpressed by their feeble attempts.

  13. #13 NotTelling
    December 31, 2011

    @novalox
    And this is a primary example of your pseudo-science-as-religion mentality that you drooling lickspittles adhere to.

    You have no clue as to what my views on vaccination are. Yet, since I say Orac is a quack (and he is…by his own definition, too), then I absolutely must be anti-vaccine.

    Yawn, typical unintelligent ad hominem from a arse-kissing moron.

    Color me unimpressed by your feeble attempts.

  14. #14 novalox
    December 31, 2011

    @not telling

    Keep trying, child. I’m amused by your infantile whining, childlike insults, liberal use of ad hominem, and utter lack of basic science knowledge, but that’s about it.

    So keep dancing, puppet. Keep amusing me and perhaps you can pull off something that can make me laugh.

  15. #15 NotTelling
    December 31, 2011

    @novalox

    Yes, this is indeed amusing, considering that you are mocking me for the very same infantile whining, childlike insults, and liberal use of ad hominem that you, yourself, are performing. All while suffering from the same lack of basic science knowledge that you accuse me of.

    (Note: Again you prove my point from earlier. I commented that David is a crank and quack, and instead of asking why, you automatically assume that I am anti-vaccine and lack a basic understanding of science. All because I called your high-priest a pseudo-scientific gas-bag. Typical of anyone who disagrees with you and your religion.)

    So, keep dancing, butt-licker. Keep amusing me and proving that you don’t have an original thought in your miniscule little mind. Keep amusing me, because I can assure you that I am having a good, healthy laugh at your utter hypocrisy.

  16. #16 Lawrence
    December 31, 2011

    So, most-likely sock-puppet troll, prove us wrong….if you can.

  17. #17 novalox
    December 31, 2011

    @nottelling

    Keep calling me all the names, throw all the ad hominems that you want, child, if that is what comforts you.

    Trite, but merely amusing.

    Keep it coming, I’d like to see how many more insults you can attempt to think of in trying to attack me. Should be fun.

  18. #18 Bronze Dog
    December 31, 2011

    The trolls must be new around these parts. (But then again, nearly all trolls are perpetually oblivious.) Here, we want people to provide evidence for their assertions. Not insults, ad hominem fallacies, or poisoning the well. Not Epistemological Authoritarianism in the form of “Really, Really Important Person/Corporation said so!” Not inherently untenable worldwide million-man conspiracy theories specifically designed to handwave the lack of evidence.

    If you want to actually be revolutionary instead of just patting yourself on the back for pretending to be revolutionary, start citing solid, peer-reviewed scientific journal articles. That’s what it’ll take to change our minds. Anything else just tells me you’re interested in maintaining the status quo so that humans remain gullible and manipulable by easy propaganda tactics, like the ones I described in the previous paragraph. We’re skeptics. We’re a group of people who deliberately try not to be easily swayed by transparent rhetorical games.

    Until you employ the tactics of rational people, your methods are indistinguishable from those of “The Man.”

  19. #19 DLC
    December 31, 2011

    Three days on from my flu shot and still no signs of mental deficit, social withdrawal or other symptoms of autism.
    No seizures either. Still old, still an ex- smoker and still overweight.
    Lilady #4: is Paul a member of AAPS ? they seem right up his alley. (wacky valley lane?)
    #5, 11 : (trolls.)
    Apparently the lady with the insurance company commercial is not the only one having a chipmunk family reunion, you guys are nuts.

  20. #20 NotTelling
    December 31, 2011

    @novalox

    “Keep calling me all the names, throw all the ad hominems that you want, child, if that is what comforts you.”

    Only following your example, infant. But, please, keep it up as it better illustrates your hypocrisy.

    “Keep it coming, I’d like to see how many more insults you can attempt to think of in trying to attack me. Should be fun.”

    Alas, I grow bored with your incessant whining. If you don’t like to be insulted, refrain from insulting others. Do try to do it quietly, though; the childish sniveling you’ve shown here is quite pathetic, at best.

    Off to far more intelligent things. I’ve lost enough brain-cells dealing with the idiocy of Geekski’s worshipful blowhards.

  21. #21 Chris
    December 31, 2011

    Ross Coe, you have returned! So when are you going to answer my question about why Roald Dahl’s daughter lost her ability to speak after measles?

  22. #22 novalox
    December 31, 2011

    @nottelling

    Yawn, still keeping this up, child?

    You were mildly amusing, but alas, you couldn’t back up his/her its points with any evidence that Orac has posted anything pseudosceintific. Disappointing really, nottelling pulling a Brave Sir Robin routine when he/she/it couldn’t back up any damn point.

    I do admit, it is fun to play with the trolls from time to time. It gives me a bit of amusement to see them whine.

    BTW, nottelling, don’t let the door hit your hurt butt on the way out.

  23. #23 Chris
    December 31, 2011

    NotTelling:

    You have no clue as to what my views on vaccination are. Yet, since I say Orac is a quack (and he is…by his own definition, too), then I absolutely must be anti-vaccine.

    That is because you post some silly opinion and run away.

    So exactly why is Orac a crank? How is Ron Paul not a crank? And do you support keeping people who shake babies to death by blaming vaccines?

  24. #24 Narad
    December 31, 2011

    Off to far more intelligent things come up with another lame pseudonym and pop right back up so soon you’d never notice I left in a blustering, fake huff.

    FTFY.

  25. #25 Melvin the mad
    January 1, 2012

    As far as I know there are host of programs that are unconstitutional. OBMAMACARE is one of them. So is income taxes, death tax, and unlimited detention without a trial.

    Forcing someone to buy a product from a private company or face a fine or jail time is UNCONSTITUTIONAL! What if the government passed a law that said every person in the United States had to purchase a book wriiten by Ken Ham or face a fine or jail time? Would you still feel the same about illegal government enforcement of commerce?

    No where in the constitution, the declaration of independence, the federalist papers, etc does it mention income tax, death taxes, medical care, etc. Nor do any of these documents mention the federal government forcing people to purchase a product from a private company. it is illegal and those who wrote it should be in prison.

  26. #26 Melvin the mad
    January 1, 2012

    It is not that I should secede, but those who are traitors to the constitution and the republic that should secede. Perhaps they could move to Europe where everything is a perfect liberal utopia with no problems whatsoever.

  27. #27 Melvin the Mad
    January 1, 2012

    @Narad

    Besides, Rights are given by God. It is government who often finds ways of taken said rights away even though those in government are sworn and oath to God to uphold the truth. Ironic, but traitorous nontheless.

  28. #28 Melvin the Mad
    January 1, 2012

    Narad, you marxist terd herder. How dare you call me that. Your bullying comment does not change my conclusion that you smoke dried terd powder* when your mommy isn’t looking. Now, back to your public toilet to search for new smokes.

    *Actually a friend of mine got pissed off at an old man one time and crumbled up a dry dog terd in his tobacco that the got used for rolling his own cigarretes. We all thought it was hilarious. The old man smoked a dog terd.

  29. #29 Melvin the mad
    January 1, 2012

    Maybe I’ll pull my skirt over YOUR head and fart so hard that the impression of my butthole will be left forever on your forehead like an expensive tattoo.

    Narad you are such a vaccine slurper till I bet you use Botox to remove the wrinkles from your butthole.

  30. #30 Janet
    January 1, 2012

    Well I thought I would give it time for the trolls to diminish so that I could return and have an intelligent conversation, but looks like matters are worse than before. Nevermind.

  31. #31 Facts
    January 1, 2012

    ” Yet, since I say Orac is a quack (and he is…by his own definition, too), then I absolutely must be anti-vaccine.”

    Actually, you must be an idiot. Either you sincerely think that Orac is a quack, but you waste your time writing comments that he will surely delete (since the key sign of a quack is suppression of dissent), or you know Orac doesn’t censor opponents (and thus is not a quack), and are taking advantage of that fact to spew lies that for some sick reason you find amusing. Either way, an idiot. But a somewhat amusing one…

  32. #32 Melvin the Mad
    January 1, 2012

    It’s barely an amendment. Did you ever read the history behind how the income tax came about? Even though it is an amendment, it could still be abolished. In 1894 the Supreme Court ruled that income tax was unconstitutional.

    Also the “earned income tax credit” aka reparations is just another welfare program with a different name. How is it possible to get recieve $5000 in money from the IRS when you paid in less than $2000? what kind of criminals are running thing up there in Washington?

  33. #33 Narad
    January 1, 2012

    Great, Melvin. Maybe you should secede.

  34. #34 Narad
    January 1, 2012

    It is not that I should secede, but those who are traitors to the constitution and the republic that should secede.

    Oh, so you’re lazy. C’mon, I’m sure you could bring your order a copy of the Federalist Papers and show Turkey where it’s at. You’d be a hero. Fes? Oh, no, tricorner hats all around. Bare your man-breasts like Marianne leading the Republic, already.

  35. #35 Narad
    January 1, 2012

    This doesn’t change the conclusion that you’re a total pussy, “Melvin.”

  36. #36 Lawrence
    January 1, 2012

    @Narad – you’re having way too much fun poking the Libertarian…..

  37. #37 Narad
    January 1, 2012

    I think “fun” would be overstating the case. If it had the balls to stop morphing, I imagine it wouldn’t receive any attention whatever. Th1Th2 is positively respectable by comparison.

  38. #38 Narad
    January 1, 2012

    How dare you call me that.

    Sorry to hurt your delicate feelings. Maybe if you pull your skirt over your head it will help you feel better.

  39. #39 Ken
    January 1, 2012

    Crank magnetism must be described by a more complex group than U(1). Orac and AoA surely correspond to opposite charges, yet both attract the same kinds of cranks.

    Oh, and Melvin: Income tax is constitutional. It’s an amendment. That kind of makes it constitutional by definition.

  40. #40 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
    January 1, 2012

    No where in the constitution, the declaration of independence, the federalist papers, etc does it mention income tax, death taxes, medical care, etc.

    Jesus Haploid Christ, what a freakin’ idiot! The thing you Founder-fellaters (while getting everything they said wrong) fail to realize, is that those documents don’t need to say anything about a given subject. (And since when are The Federalist Papers binding legal documents?) They lay out a process to amend the Constitution when necessary, which was duly carried out, authorizing income taxes, to take one of your points. They say nothing one way or the other about “death taxes” (which I take to mean inheritance taxes) or medical care. People in subsequent eras are perfectly free to do whatever seems best on these subjects. The Constitution is a living document—some very wise men made it that way on purpose.

    And “Marxists”? Really? This is what you’re worried about? Sorry to disturb your slumbers, Mr. Van Winkle!

  41. #41 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
    January 1, 2012

    Oops! Sorry Ken! Teach me to refresh, I guess.

  42. #42 Narad
    January 1, 2012

    Maybe I’ll pull my skirt over YOUR head and fart so hard that the impression of my butthole will be left forever on your forehead like an expensive tattoo.

    Nothing like a crybaby, especially a state-of-nature one. Were you looking at the black-felt string-art cross that you made when whomping that one up?

    Given that you have nothing else to contribute, howsabout you tell everybody what your problem is with pussy? Does your routine not “play in Poughkeepsie,” if you get my drift?

  43. #43 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
    January 1, 2012

    It’s barely an amendment. Did you ever read the history behind how the income tax came about? Even though it is an amendment, it could still be abolished. In 1894 the Supreme Court ruled that income tax was unconstitutional.

    What the hell does “barely” an amendment mean? It’s an amendment, passed by congress and ratified by 3/4 of the states, like any other amendment. In 1894, the Supreme Court did indeed (wrongly) rule that the 4% tax on income over $100,000 (at least $4,000,000 in today’s money) was unconstitutional. An amendment was passed to make it constitutional, and Bob’s yer uncle!

  44. #44 Melvin the Mad
    January 2, 2012

    Sorry for dissappearing on you last time narad. I am working on a business deal at the same time I am poking fun at you and your minion allies here. Hopefully by this time next year I will be a wealthy man, but then again business deals are hard to come by these days. Not too long ago I found something of great value. If I do become wealthy from this discovery you will not have to worry about me being a pest here any longer becuase I will have better things to do with my time than annoy evolutionaries and marxists. Like spending time on my new 350 acre property and enjoying the peaceful solitude of freedom.

    As for Chris, you shall henceforth be called Drosophila for your contribution to chromosome conversations.

  45. #45 lilady
    January 2, 2012

    @ The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: “Barely an amendment” might mean anything that Right Wingnuts don’t agree with.

    For them, a “real amendment” would be throwing out the cumbersome tax code and replacing it with the “simplified…not longer than the Constitution…tax code”.

    Other “real amendments” would be the “marriage is between a man and a woman”, “prayer in schools”, “textbooks according to creationalism” and “free access to assault rifles” amendments.

    OMG, Bush II is beginning to look good to me now.

  46. #46 Melvin the Mad
    January 2, 2012

    “free access to assualt rifles”? I am sorry to report that while conservatives usually do like to play with guns and “assault” rifles, we would never advocate socialism and welfare to obtain such a product. “Assault” rifles are obtained only through capitalism – that is, get a job and use your own money to buy one. Sorry, but under conservative rule, socialism is a felony.

    Speaking of which, the new Springfield M1A .308 semi-auto would make a nice addition any man’s collection as would the New Sig P226.

    The tac code is way too complicated. It could be simplified by abolishment and repalcement with a new simply tax – a national sales tax of no more than 10%. Simple, cost effective, less government intervention, and it taxes “the rich” as you would wish.

    Marriage betwen one man and one woman is just as much an amendment as your income tax is if it is passed in govenrment. Even if it never becomes a constitutional amendment, it is still a Biblical amendment that can never be broken. Sure activist judges can take it upon themelves to “marry” two people of the opposite sex, but who says I have to accept it? Who says the church accepts it? Prayer ins school is optional. No one is forcing anyone to pray. I bet is Habib was shouting out islamic prayers in school, liberals would never speak out against it. The teaching of evolution is ok as long as the “teacher” does not force their belief on the child. A child can learn how evolution works and answer question about it on a test and get every answer correct, but still not believe it. This happens more than you know. Just becuase they put down the correct answer does not mean they actually believe it. They just wanted a good grade without the grief that the leftist professor would give them.

  47. #47 Gray Falcon
    January 2, 2012

    Melvin, have you actually bothered to read the Bible? In particular, the Biblical laws mandating charity?

  48. #48 Lawrence
    January 2, 2012

    Maybe a Freudian slip on your part, but I too believe that students should be putting the “correct” answers on their tests and not their beliefs.

  49. #49 Chris
    January 2, 2012

    lilady:

    Other “real amendments” would be the “marriage is between a man and a woman”, “prayer in schools”, “textbooks according to creationalism” and “free access to assault rifles” amendments.

    MM probably thinks his mother needed a Y-chromosome. He is a complete idiot.

  50. #50 Melvin the mad
    January 2, 2012

    Yes, charity is the act of one individual giving gifts, or his time and talent to others who are less fortunate such as poor people, and sick people.

    Socialism is an anti-Biblical act of big government stripping away your earned income to give to people who would continue to keep said socialist leaders in power.

    Big difference narad. I suppose Soviet Russia was very Biblical? I love how eastern bloc countries allowed all citizens free access to automobiles. Everyone was entitled to a poorly made (doors made of plywood) 3 cylinder piece of crap while the socialist leaders drove mercedes and Rolls Royce. That’s usually how socilaism works. The peasants get free access to crap while the leaders get the best of the best and laugh at the “equality” morons who keep them in power.

    Yes look at how Soviet Russia and Cuba has fared. Socialism at its finest. Gee, narad, socialism is the act of everyone being equally miserable.

    I see nowhere in the Bible where Jesus instructed the government of Rome to confiscate more taxes and give to certain classes of citizens.

    I do see in the Bible where people had the right to own property and prosper in great wealth. Ever hear of Abraham? Solomon? David? The Bible does teach about the dangers of greed and wealthy people who are selfish, but the Bible does NOT teach communism. The Bible teaches about individual liberty and freedom. Under your marxism private property rights are abolsihed and freedom no longers exists.

  51. #51 Militant Agnostic
    January 2, 2012

    Funny how loonytarians reject biological “Darwinism” but embrace Social Darwinism.

    Gray Falcon @46
    After someone posted an Adam Smith quote that contradicted libertarian ideology on Pharyngula, someone responded that for libertarians and conservatives The Wealth of Nations is like the bible for fundamentalists – you are supposed to worship it not read it. The aptly named Melvin the Mad has a foot in each of these buckets of bullshit.

  52. #52 Lawrence
    January 2, 2012

    @MM I guess you missed the quote about “rendering unto Caesar.”

  53. #53 Melvin the Mad
    January 2, 2012

    Chris thinks he is cute now. Definite vacancy of the cranium methinks.

  54. #54 S.P. Trolleymeister
    January 2, 2012

    @ Flying Sauceress

    With supporters like sauceress and narad and militant eggnostic the wall street protestors (unionized commies) don’t need enemas.

    I used to be Guardian of the Poll at pz’s poll fornication hub. I still do my job of informing pollsters of PZ’s intent from time to time.

  55. #55 Gray Falcon
    January 2, 2012

    Melvin, Biblical law required owners of fields to not harvest to the edges of their fields, so that the poor might have food to eat. The book of Amos condemns Israel for its cruelty to its own people. Jesus commended those who would give one’s life for a friend, you will not even inconvenience yourself for someone else’s sake.

  56. #56 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    January 2, 2012

    Marriage betwen one man and one woman is just as much an amendment as your income tax is if it is passed in govenrment.

    Well, yeah, it would be if such a thing were passed by Congress and ratified by the states. The odds are slim of that happening in the current political climate.

    Even if it never becomes a constitutional amendment, it is still a Biblical amendment that can never be broken.

    This would be the first time I’ve ever heard the term “Biblical amendment”, and I was unaware there was a process to amend the Bible. I’m also unaware that anything in the Bible is binding on the federal or state governments.

  57. #57 Melvin the Mad
    January 2, 2012

    I guess Lawrence missed the second half of “render unto Caesar” which inluded rendering unto God what is God’s.

    Militant Agnostic is probably drunk or high again and got his face stuck in his pucker. Ignore pucker face.

    Speaking of libertarianism, go RON PAUL! The best republican candidate since Ronald Reagan! I would Militant Agnostic’s left nut (as small as it is) to see Ron paul win the Presidency. Perhaps his son Rand could be Vice President and Michelle Bachmann could be head of the Department of Justice. We could put Mitt Romney in charge of the finances and welfare departments. We could put Herman Cain in charge of Public Relations and make Marco Rubio the new Immigration Service Director. Then we could put John Bolton as Secretary of Defense. I could really fix things. Mike Adamms would be the new head of the FDA as well. The EPA would be cut in half and Wayne LaPierre would be the new ATF head.

  58. #58 Chris
    January 2, 2012

    MM, why are you so stupid? If I am a mother of a disabled child why would I need a Y-chromosome? As I said, it is actually an X-chromosome with bits missing (and one reason why several genetic disorders, like color blindness and hemophilia, are mostly due to having a Y-chromosome).

    Do you need a primer on basic genetics, one that is designed for first graders, along with a dictionary?

  59. #59 Melvin the Mad
    January 2, 2012

    Yes I need a class on genetics since I never went to genetics school. Dictionaries are a waste of time especially when talking to people who still think evolution is real. Now, if you like you can buy a repaired chromosome for your symptoms on ebay.

  60. #60 Narad
    January 2, 2012

    Socialism is an anti-Biblical act of big government stripping away your earned income to give to people who would continue to keep said socialist leaders in power.

    Big difference narad.

    Why, pray tell, are you addressing this to me? The only “conversation” I’m having with you is pointing out that you’re a morphing gasbag who couldn’t intimidate the average 10-year-old.

  61. #61 Bronze Dog
    January 2, 2012

    Melvin’s certainly going out of his way to convince us he’s completely insane. But then again, that’s par for the course with a Creationist. When you put them under sufficient scrutiny, they reveal themselves as radical postmodernists who don’t even believe there is such as thing as truth.

  62. #62 S.P. Trolleymeister
    January 2, 2012

    Yes the caananites/palestinians were violent and hard headed back then too. They eventually became slaves. The ones that didn’t die in battle. Read further Sir Thomas the Train

  63. #63 Melvin the Mad
    January 2, 2012

    Sorry Narad, I thought you were morphing too. Why would I intimidate 10 year olds? I thought that was the job of far left “science” teachers and pro gayist school faculty.

    Thanks Bronze Dog – for your website link. Me gonna have fun now.

  64. #64 Melvin the Mad
    January 2, 2012

    Bronze Dog, tell me how God can be defeated by iron chariots since God created iron and all other elements of the universe?

    Have you been reading Chariots of the Gods again?

    Your website is the most racist anti-God website I have ever seen. Well, second most. I believe Ed Brayon has you beat by a couple of points.

    Stepping into the Bronze Dog blog is like stepping into a bronze dog pile of crap.

  65. #65 Gray Falcon
    January 2, 2012

    A side-note on “render unto Caesar”: Jesus didn’t simply pull out a coin, he asked his critics for one. He subtly reminded them that for all their complaints, they still used coins that bore the face of the emperor, and depended on the Romans for survival.

  66. #66 S.P Trolleymeister
    January 2, 2012

    Just admit you are a racist Bronze Dog. If you are not racist then you are Godophobic.

    Also if I recall the story does not end in the book of Judges. It ends in the book of Revelation. Besides we all know that eventually these people with iron chariots were taken into captivity.

  67. #67 Chris
    January 2, 2012

    MM:

    Now, if you like you can buy a repaired chromosome for your symptoms on ebay.

    And exactly how is being female a symptom? Or even a symptom that needs to be remedied? Are you suggesting that women go to Ebay to find surgeons so they can be transformed into men? You are a really sick dude.

    Really, isn’t it a bit early to be downing cheap beer?

  68. #68 Narad
    January 2, 2012

    tell me how God can be defeated by iron chariots since God created iron and all other elements of the universe?

    Oh, great, it’s pretend-theology time again. At least you disappeared rather promptly the last time around.

    And, once again, you might want to see someone about that aversion to women. I hear your fantasy DOJ head knows somebody who can do something about that.

  69. #69 Edith Prickly
    January 2, 2012

    Oooh, the Becktard nut with the scat fetish is back again. He must have run out of paint thinner to huff.

  70. #70 missmayinga
    January 2, 2012

    So, uh…anyone care to explain to me what the hell is going on in this thread?

  71. #71 Narad
    January 2, 2012

    So, uh…anyone care to explain to me what the hell is going on in this thread?

    Just another day off in Greater Starkville.

  72. #72 Gray Falcon
    January 2, 2012

    I’m guessing “Melvin the Mad” is the recurring commenter also known as “Medicien [sic] man” and “Doctor Smart”, notorious for his extreme arrogance and tendency to invent Bible verses.

  73. #73 Narad
    January 2, 2012

    Guessing?

  74. #74 Orac
    January 2, 2012

    Yep. It’s him. For the uninitiated, Medicien Man, Doctor Smart, and Melvin the Mad are sockpuppets. The idiot morphs fast enough that it’s hard to keep up.

  75. #75 S.P. Trollmeister
    January 2, 2012

    Socialism is not an opposing political view. It is an act of treason against humanity. So, you view what Fidel Castro and his child molestor/terrorist butthole buddy Che did as an “opposing political view”?

    The Bible does not depict God as weak. Does being able to speak the entire universe into existance and then destroy it all in the end and judge every man in the end sound weak? I think it is us who are weak. Even the great satan himself will stand trial and be eternally punished one day.

  76. #76 Sauceress
    January 2, 2012

    Anyone remember the “Nu Zullund” god-bothering poe that used to hang at Pharyngula? I should remember the name as he was a favourite of mine. Smoggy Buttrazzle or something similar. Anyway mm reminds me so much of that poster. With supporters like mm the tea baggers don’t need enemies.

  77. #77 Shay
    January 2, 2012

    Socialism is an anti-Biblical act of big government stripping away your earned income to give to people who would continue to keep said socialist leaders in power.

    Overlooking that bit about rendering unto Ceasar, are we?

    I do see in the Bible where people had the right to own property and prosper in great wealth. Ever hear of Abraham? Solomon? David?

    Not to mention Matthew 19:24.

    (Accusation of the devil quoting Scripture to his own purpose in five…four…three..)

  78. #78 S.P. Trolleymeister
    January 2, 2012

    Chris is having a panic attack becuase he lacks a few chromosomes.

    Gay rights? Any man is free to be gay if he so chooses, but others do not have to accept the behavior if they so choose. Where is it exactly that the Bible talks about gay rights? Oh, that’s right, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed and homosexuality was condemend as a sin from the beginning.

    God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. We were told to be fruitful and multiply, not kill our babies through abortion and sodomize people of the same sex.

    I am just as much for true women’s right as the next person, but as far as gay rights goes, they have the right to be gay if they choose, but don;t come crying to me when meteorites and lava take our your city becuase of it.

  79. #79 Narad
    January 2, 2012

    I used to be Guardian of the Poll at pz’s poll fornication hub.

    Yes, Rob, thanks.

  80. #80 Sauceress
    January 2, 2012

    I still do my job of informing pollsters of PZ’s intent from time to time.

    Well goody for you mm. You think anyone really cares?
    I’m sure your “job” as an informant makes you feel all important, relevant and authoritarian. Not to mention giving your ego those little boosts of warm and fuzzy nourishment.

  81. #81 Thomas
    January 2, 2012

    “Bronze Dog, tell me how God can be defeated by iron chariots since God created iron and all other elements of the universe? ”

    I see you haven’t read the Bible. Judges 1:19

    “And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.”

  82. #82 Janet
    January 2, 2012

    OMG! Is this still going on? Is there some kind of New Year’s 48 hour trollathon going on here? Do the trolls have their own infomercial now?

  83. #83 Bronze Dog
    January 2, 2012

    Thanks, Thomas. Saves me a little bit of typing and verifying the verse’s location.

    As for the alleged racism of my blog: How, exactly? If you’re talking about racism against gods, it’s just against one specific set of ideas of a god (or gods) interpreted from one collection of texts. That post was making a joke that happened to involve a laughable weakness described in that “authoritative” collection of texts.

    It gets funnier for me when rereading the verse because this god PLUS an army couldn’t defeat those valley-based chariots, and yet Creationists demand that we believe this same “almighty” god who lacked the power to overcome some iron age humans had the power to create this giant universe and meddle with it in profound ways.

    Besides, “god” is a rather vague, undefined term that changes whenever a theist paints himself into a rhetorical corner. So far, the major cause of that vagueness seems to be the lack of gods to observe, and thus we have no basis for determining the properties that define a god. Typically, if humans build a complex array of hypotheses that don’t test against objective reality, the more divergence and disagreement there will be about it, and this divergence will occur at the broadest levels, not just nuanced details. Take a good look at the multitude of god hypotheses out there.

  84. #84 Colonel J. Ruper Roe
    January 2, 2012

    Chris how is your friend Janet? You actually fell for it last night too. Fun pretending to be a woman isn’t it? Oops. I lost a chromosome. Nevermind, I found it.

  85. #85 Bronze Dog
    January 2, 2012

    How can I be racist against a group that, as far as I can tell, doesn’t exist at all? Or are you going to argue that I’m racist against unicorns, fairies, and klingons for finding them absurd and unlikely? How are gods any different?

    As for the people with iron chariots, it still fails to impress me that your god was weak enough just to be delayed instead of simply defeated. It’s also still an outright contradiction to the property of omnipotence most advocates of this god assign to it. So, which is it? Is he almighty, or does he have trouble with iron chariots?

    I believe the expression to describe your response would be “damning him with faint praise.” Why do you speak so lowly of your god?

  86. #86 Bronze Dog
    January 2, 2012

    An important question: Do you consider the Bible racist against gods because it includes a story depicting its major god as weak?

  87. #87 ligne
    January 2, 2012

    “Sorry, but under conservative rule, socialism is a felony.”

    so you want the government to be able to make opposing political views illegal? that’s….healthy.

  88. #88 Chris
    January 2, 2012

    I just came back from spending the day with my daughter, and I see that MM has morphed in S.P Trolleymeister (S.P. = Sanitary Paper?).

    What I don’t understand is if he dislikes lesbian, gays, bi-sexual, transgenders and transsexuals: why does he think those without a Y-chromosome should get a sex change?

    Is he also such sexist twit that women should not exist in his reality?

    Or is he so much of an idiot he did not know what he was saying?

  89. #89 Narad
    January 2, 2012

    Does being able to speak the entire universe into existance and then destroy it all in the end and judge every man in the end sound weak?

    You might want to clean up your act in that case. I don’t imagine G-d’s going to be too pleased at having to page through all of this crap.

  90. #90 Chris
    January 2, 2012

    ligne:

    so you want the government to be able to make opposing political views illegal? that’s….healthy.

    He seems to want all those who are without a Y-chromosome to go away. That is also neither healthy nor feasible (especially if he is against gay rights).

  91. #91 Chris
    January 2, 2012

    MM, are you trolling as a woman now? Are you really that stupid?

  92. #92 Chris
    January 2, 2012

    Sorry, the comment I was replying to disappeared. It seemed that someone actually stepped over the line.

    MM (the morphing troll who pretended to be Janet and is now Ruper Roe), who is Janet and how did I fall for this person before? A person using that name posted here once, and no one responded to her.

    I believe someone is hoping to add this blog to his list of those he has been banned from.

  93. #93 lilady
    January 2, 2012

    Hi Chris: I’ve often wondered why M.M. and his sock puppets doesn’t find a scat internet site…where he can get his “jollies”. I’ve heard of subscription phone sex, perhaps M.M. can locate a subscription phone scat site. Let’s just ignore this terd/turd.

  94. #94 Narad
    January 2, 2012

    I think there is now ample evidence that Rob can be nothing other than a witch. Consider the shape-shifting, the creation of a veritable Hermaphroditus, and the plain being on the wrong side of ways to remind people of the tail end of John chapter 8. I’m with burning.

  95. #95 Chris
    January 2, 2012

    By the way, MM, I have actually met Orac in person. I am more than willing that he would believe me over you.

  96. #96 Homeboy Bill
    January 3, 2012

    I bet you have met Santa Claus in person too?

  97. #97 Henry J. Yorks
    January 3, 2012

    Chris cannot morph. He has refurbished chromosomes.

  98. #98 Chris
    January 3, 2012

    Are you really that stupid? Seriously?

  99. #99 Chris
    January 3, 2012

    Homeboy Bill, do you really think that this blog is written by a plexiglass box with blinky lights? There is a real person, who writes on another blog, and I have talked to him in person.

    No matter what you morph you name to, MM, you are easily exposed due to your incredible idiocy, possibly because you start downing cheap beer before noon.

  100. #100 lilady
    January 3, 2012

    Sock Puppet alert…MM is posting under “Homeboy Bill”.

  101. #101 Peking man
    January 3, 2012

    Chris is talking to imaginary people again. Did you tell Al Gore about your internet troll problem? After all, he would be the person to see “in person” since he did invent the internet. He also invented global warming. It is hard to tell which one has had the most success. Nevermind, global warming doesn’t exist – just like evolution and chris’s imaginary blob hosts. No matter how you may see through the mobeus coil of my morphing capabilities, you are easily exposed becuase you lack several chromosomes.

  102. #102 Lawrence
    January 3, 2012

    Stupid knows no bounds or consistent screen names, it seems….

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