It’s been nearly a year since I last discussed a most unusual malady. Part of the reason is that the opportunity to discuss it hasn’t occurred recently; usually I need some spark or incident to “inspire” me to write about something, and there just hasn’t been any Morgellons news that’s caught my eye since then. However, another part of the reason, I must admit, is that writing about this particular condition almost always brings sufferers out of the woodwork, castigating me the way antivaccinationists like to castigate me for challenging the scientific basis of their preferred pseudoscience. I catch enough hostility from the antivaccine contingent. Before I’m reading to leap into a fray that’s likely to bring more hostility–who knows? I might even be graced by a visit from a certain particularly deluded and persistent advocate of this condition–my way from an entirely different contingent of woo-meisters. On the other hand, sometimes I need a change of pace, a new area to look at the application of science-based medicine to health and disease.

I’m referring, of course, to Morgellons disease. To recap (for those of you who are familiar with the condition) or to provide some background (for those of you who are not), people suffering (or claiming to suffer) from this condition complain of an intense itching, and the condition is characterized by a number of primary symptoms. These include:

  • Sponanteously Erupting Skin lesions
  • Sensation of crawling, biting on and under the skin
  • Appearance of blue, black or red fibers and granules beneath and/or extruding from the skin
  • Fatigue
  • Short-term memory loss
  • Attention Deficit, Bipolar or Obsessive-Compulsive disorders
  • Impaired thought processing (brain fog)
  • Depression and feelings of isolation


Of course, as I pointed out before, the fibers and granules found in the skin in Morgellons sufferers are always consistent with clothing or scratching. More precisely, no Morgellons advocate has ever demonstrated them to be anything mysterious or even anything not consistent with fibers from clothing or various materials the sufferer comes into contact with. It’s not for nothing that most objective investigations of Morgellons disease conclude that it is some form of delusional parasitosis. Before I move on, let me get one thing straight. Just because I don’t think that Morgellons is due to parasites doesn’t mean that I think that sufferers from Morgellons disease are crazy or “making it up” somehow. In fact, they are suffering. We don’t know why they are suffering, but we can say that it isn’t due to parasites and that the fibers that they on or in their skin are consistent with textiles, such as clothing, and superficial skin injuries due to scratching. Yet there is a large contingent of Morgellons quacks out there who are only too happy to indulge this delusional parasitosis and provide all manner of dubious remedies designed to relieve the symptoms of Morgellons sufferers while also relieving them of their cash.

When last I examined a study looking at Morgellons disease, it was a study that did something very, very obvious. Basically, the investigators looked at skin biopsies and patient-provided specimens. Not surprisingly, most commonly, investigators found that they were skin flakes or serum crust, hair, or textile fibers. There were a couple of insects found among the specimens. Consistent with the literature about Morgellons, there was nothing consistent with a diagnosis of parasite infestation. This time around, there appears to be a study that provides even more evidence that Morgellons disease is not a distinct clinical entity. Basically, it’s a new study that was commissioned by Senator Dianne Feinstein to look into the cause of Morgellons disease. The results were just reported:

ATLANTA (AP) — Imagine having the feeling that tiny bugs are crawling on your body, that you have oozing sores and mysterious fibers sprouting from your skin. Sound like a horror movie? Well, at one point several years ago, government doctors were getting up to 20 calls a day from people saying they had such symptoms.

Many of these people were in California and one of that state’s U.S. senators, Dianne Feinstein, asked for a scientific study. In 2008, federal health officials began to study people saying they were affected by this freakish condition called Morgellons.
The study cost nearly $600,000. Its long-awaited results, released Wednesday, conclude that Morgellons exists only in the patients’ minds.

“We found no infectious cause,” said Mark Eberhard, a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention official who was part of the 15-member study team.

This was a much bigger study, and it was published in PLoS One yesterday. Naturally, I couldn’t resist going to the source, as is my wont. So I did. The study comes from investigators from the CDC, Kaiser Permanente, the Joint Pathology Center, the Department of Veterans Affairs, and the Department of Dermatology at the University of Rochester School of Medicine and is entitled Clinical, Epidemiologic, Histopathologic and Molecular Features of an Unexplained Dermopathy.

This particular study consisted of three major components: a cross-sectional survey, clinical evaluations, and histopathological studies. Eligibility for the study was very broad. Basically, all that was necessary was that the subject be a member of Kaiser Permanente, thirteen years or older, and English-speaking. Cases of Morgellons were defined as any member of Kaiser Permanente who reported during the study period (July 1, 2006 and June 30, 2008) reporting “fibers, threads, specks, dots, fuzzballs, granules or other forms of solid material coming out of his/her skin” AND one or both of the following:

  • a skin lesion such as a rash, wound, ulcer, or nodule; OR
  • a disturbing skin symptom such as pruritus, feeling that something is crawling on top of or under the skin, or stinging, biting, or a pins and needles sensation.

From cases who were identified by predetermined criteria of possibly having Morgellons disease, complete medical histories were taken, and clinical examinations performed. Skin samples were taken by 4 mm punch biopsy, and a dermatoscope used to photograph each biopsy site before and after the procedure. These biopsy samples were subjected to–shall we say?–extensive testing. In addition to standard histopathological analysis, skin biopsy specimens were subjected to scanning electron microscopy. Fibers and other samples were also subjected to infrared spectroscopy (IR) to identify molecular characteristics. Blood samples were taken and serological tests performed, and subjects underwent neuropsychiatric testing. A cross-sectional survey was alos taken using an Internet-based tool.

Perhaps the most surprising thing about this study (to me, at least) was how uncommmon Morgellons disease was. Out of nearly three million Kaiser enrollees screened, investigators only found 104 cases, for a prevalence of 3.65 per 100,000. Given the seeming “prevalence” of the disease on the Internet, one would think that it was far more common than that. It is true that this sample, as large as it is, might not be representative. It is, after all, made up of Kaiser Permanente members, which means that they all at least have a form of health insurance. They also all live in California, specifically in the Bay Area. Even so, it is rather revealing that patients complaining of classic Morgellons symptoms are actually fairly uncommon.

It’s also not at all surprising that another major finding of this paper is that, consistent with previous studies, there was no evidence of any consistent set of abnormalities in the skin of subjects complaining of Morgellons symptoms:

Case-patients had a wide range of skin lesions, suggesting that the condition cannot be explained by a single, well-described inflammatory, infectious, or neoplastic disorder. A substantial proportion (40%) of biopsied lesions had histopathologic features compatible with the sequelae of chronic rubbing or excoriation, without evidence of an underlying etiology. The most common histopathologic abnormality was solar elastosis, a degeneration of dermal connective tissue and increased amounts of elastic tissue due to prolonged sun exposure. However, this finding might be expected among a population residing in California and does not necessarily suggest a causal relationship. Histopathologic examination of skin areas with normal appearance were essentially normal, arguing against systemic or subclinical skin abnormalities. Among the differential diagnoses for the skin presentations detected are neurotic excoriations [16], atopic dermatitis, brachioradial pruritis [17], [18], and arthropod bites.

Previous reports of this condition have described the material emerging from the skin being like fibers, hairs or filaments [1], [19], but we found a more heterogeneous description of materials emerging from the skin, with many case-patients describing materials other than fibers including specks, dots, granules, or worms. We found no difference in the sociodemographic, clinical, or histopathologic characteristics of case-patients who did and did not report fibers. The fibers and materials collected from case-patients’ skin were largely consistent with skin fragments or materials such as cotton and were either entrapped in purulent crust or scabs, suggesting the materials were from environmental sources (e.g., clothing) or possibly artifacts introduced at the time of specimen collection and processing.

There was also no evidence of an environmental cause. Also, not surprisingly, subjects complaining of Morgellons symptoms also had a evidence of co-existing neuropsychiatric morbidity. According to this study, nearly 60% of Morgellons cases had evidence of a cognitive impairment that could not be explained by deficits in IQ, while 63% had clinically significant somatic complaints. Depression was more prevalent than in the general population. Despite these findings, the subjects with Morgellons were more or less normal on most of the tests they were subjected to.

Predictably, although this study is still more evidence that there is not clearly definable physical cause of Morgellons disease, the advocates are not backing down. For example, Randy Wymore, an Oklahoma State University pharmacologist who is one of the most famous and reputable mainstream scientist who thinks there might be something to Morgellons disease is already making excuses. Unfortunately, it’s probable that no amount of evidence will convince such people, at least until we find treatments that are effective in alleviating their symptoms. Maybe not even then.

Comments

  1. #1 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    “Hence what was intended as satire…” Oh get real Alison! You were making fun of me.

    ” for what you’re proposing to be true, then practically every doctor, scientist, military personnel & so on in the world would have to be in on it. At which point the whole thing would unravel – there is no way that this conspiracy could be kept a secret. ”

    Wow, ummm, ever heard of compartmentalization? The vast majority of those doing the dirty work for the conspirators have no idea what they are involved in. Their only crime is complacency. There ARE people speaking out, Ted Gunderson being just one example, and the whole thing IS unravelling.

    Alison, You are living proof that educated does not necessarily equal intelligent. Again, if you don’t understand how it works, start by watching “Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement”.

  2. #2 lilady
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya…read the poll participants. The Reuters poll contained the opinions of more Democrats than registered Republicans. The Rasmussen poll reflects the opinions of only registered Republicans who are likely to vote in Republican Primaries…big difference there.

    You still haven’t addressed your other “problems” of plugging into conspiracy websites, your belief in chemtrails and your Nazi revisionism. And, you never will as long as you cling to those sites, don’t think for yourself and consider yourself a victim of science-based medicine.

    You do know, don’t you, that this site’s blogger and posters are people who actually know human physiology through their education in biology, chemistry and medicine? You aren’t doing your “cause” any good by arguing against science.

    Get some professional help for your deep-seated emotional and mental problems.

  3. #3 Narad
    February 8, 2012

    The vast majority of those doing the dirty work for the conspirators have no idea what they are involved in.

    Precisely, Tanya. Nobody said you were a witting Disinformation Operative.

  4. #4 herr doktor bimler
    February 8, 2012

    someone calling themselves a DOCTOR (again, just so we’re all clear, that’s DOCTOR ALISON CAMPBELL, UNIVERSITY OF WAIKATO)

    For the record, Alison does not call herself a Doctor, or even a DOCTOR, on her webpage or anywhere else. This is fairly easy to check. Just so we’re all clear.

    Just for the record — just so we’re all clear — Tanya has shown herself to be a fool and a liar. She may be an undermedicated psychotic, or she may be a troll playing up the persona of paranoid delusions for fun… I don’t really care which.

  5. #5 herr doktor bimler
    February 8, 2012

    In the interests of full disclosure, I should point out that Alison is a PhD, but she does not call herself that on her webpage.
    I probably over-reacted to Tanya because I lose sympathy for anyone who tries to co-opt the reality of Nazi atrocities to dramatise her own self-centred delusions, and diminish their enormity in the process. It’s a form of holocaust denial.

    I should also point out that Alison has a close family member who used to be a member of a secretive “Government Communications Security Bureau”, so she is probably part of the conspiracy.

  6. #6 Hinterlander
    February 8, 2012

    Lucky GCSB gets all the cool conspiracies, unlike the SIS. I once went for a meeting in the hallowed halls of GCSB, hoping all the while to catch a glimpse of Lord Draconis himself (who was visiting our humble country at the time), but apparently he went into an unexpected moult and couldn’t make an appearance.

  7. #7 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    Aww, did I hit a nerve lilady? So touchy! I am not here to debate Ron Paul, nor defend my views on water fluoridation, chemtrails, etc. I commented because I want people to consider the possibility that the promotion of Morgellon’s as a delusion (or a skin disease, or parasites, or uncommon) is propaganda meant to distract the public while they make their best effort to cover up the truth, that it is manmade and widespread.

    I have never asked anyone to believe me. I understand that what I’m saying is difficult to accept. I simply wish to encourage people to think critically and not jump to conclusions based on inconclusive research. I also want to speak out in defense of others suffering from this debiliatating condition, who are for the most part being treated extremely unfairly by medical “professionals”. Put yourself in our shoes and treat us how you would want others to treat you, or someone you care about.

    “You do know, don’t you, that this site’s blogger and posters are people who actually know human physiology through their education in biology, chemistry and medicine? You aren’t doing your “cause” any good by arguing against science.”

    Wow, really? Judging from the ignorance I’ve encountered here I thought you were a bunch of delinquent teenagers trolling the web from your mom’s basement. Do you seriously believe that just because someone studies science their opinions are the gospel truth? Scientists, even special ones like you guys seem to think you are, often have conflicting opinions. What is accepted as scientific fact today, can be disproven tomorrow.

    Listen to yourself. You’re basically saying “We know everything because we’re scientists and you’re just a lowly, stupid, delusional Morgellon’s sufferer whose opinions have no validity, so shut up!”. You sound disgustingly arrogant.

    You can memorize and regurgitate information and earn all the degrees in the world, but that won’t give you wisdom, or impart kindness (emotional wisdom), and you guys have done an impressive job proving it!

    Btw, herr dorktor, click on Alison’s name. You’ll find yourself on her blog. On the left, under links, click “Alison Campbell”. What does it say there, right up at the top of that page? Hmmm? Hint: IT SAYS DR ALISON CAMPBELL.

    Just for the record — just so we’re all clear — doktor bimler has shown himself to be a fool and a liar, hahaha! Couldn’t resist 😉

  8. #8 alison
    February 8, 2012

    herr Doktor said that I ‘don’t call myself Doctor’. This is correct. I don’t use the title on my own web pages & in fact I tend not to use it anywhere except as required by the nature of my job. The link you clicked on took you to the uni’s official pages, where all staff with PhDs are so identified; standard practice in such institutions.

    Tanya, I think if you look back, people were treating you with kindness & respect (Fred & Laura spring to mind, but there were many others). Around post 159 you started to throw all sorts of conspiracy claims into the mix, including dragging the nazis into it, which didn’t exactly help with how people perceived what you were saying.

    And yes, what science accepts today, may well be rejected at some point in the future. Usually as the result of further scientific research. (Helicobacter pylori as the cause of gastric ulcers, rather than stress, for example. Or the fact that Vioxx wasn’t all it was cracked up to be.) But it’s not rejected or accepted on the basis of some sort of popularity contest; any changes in our understanding are evidence-based. Which is where we part company from the whole conspiracy thing.

  9. #9 Laura
    February 8, 2012

    @Tanya
    I’m glad you do see doctors sometimes. I’ve met people who have become set against mainstream medicine, and it’s a dangerous attitude to have.
    However, you have avoided answering me, on whether you have done specific analytical things to diagnose yourself.
    You’re avoiding challenging your self-diagnosis of Morgellon’s with analytical methods.
    Not seeing a doctor for your symptoms, avoids challenging your self-diagnosis. That is part of analytically challenging it.
    THAT is probably why you aren’t seeing them for it – probably NOT some commonly held idea about doctors “just addressing symptoms”. If you are imagining things, you could check THAT by having some medical person – or even some non-Morgellon’s non-medical person – nearby right after you take a shower. Do THEY see fibers coming out of your skin?
    And as I said there are self-help analytical methods, like getting fibers out of your life for awhile, that you don’t seem to have done. You did it in a small way, by avoiding towel-drying, but apparently not in a more disciplined complete way.
    And, checking your self-diagnosis by doing an elimination diet/food challenges.
    I did read that Daily Mail article you linked to, and it describes people doing similar things to what you have done – grabbing onto the online Morgellon’s stuff.
    I think of it as “downloading a thought virus from the internet”.
    At least you are going outside the Morgellon’s self-reinforcing groups, by reading what people here say. I and probably most other people here, find the study that Orac cited, that looked at the reality of 115 people self-diagnosed with Morgellon’s, FAR more convincingly factual than your arguments.
    I do relate to having found mainstream medicine not all that useful for some things, since I have delayed food allergies and (apparently) local inhalant allergies, and “brain allergies” – allergies that affect the mind in ways that aren’t well documented in mainstream medicine.
    But, what I said STILL applies. You’re STILL isolating yourself, from analytically checking out your ideas by yourself OR by seeing doctors.

  10. #10 Laura
    February 8, 2012

    Beamup says:

    If people were eating toilet paper, bits of it could fall onto their skin, certainly. But they wouldn’t be getting there via the digestive tract and coming out through the skin.

    What makes you think that? I was looking for evidence, not opinions.
    These people literally eat ROLLS of TP. Maybe indigestible fibers can be stiff enough to work their way out of the digestive tract. Splinters of glass or bone can do that.

  11. #11 Vicki
    February 8, 2012

    At the risk of bringing some data into this:

    I’ve seen the sky without contrails. So have many of us. September 2001, “total ground standdown,” a few days with no commercial and little military aviation over the United
    States. There are published papers on this natural experiment (“natural” in the sense that it wasn’t intended to study contrails or climate, not in the sense that it wasn’t done by humans).

    Also, I treat disabled trauma survivors the same way I treat other people, disabled or not, trauma survivors or not: I don’t accept their claims just because of their disability or trauma history, nor do I reject them on that basis. PTSD can have a number of effects; I’ve yet to see a claim that it makes a person a better judge of unconnected facts or claims than the rest of us.

  12. #12 Militant Agnostic
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya, your signature links to a website which has a link to David Icke’s website. Do you believe as he does that Queen Elizabeth, George Bush & Kris Kristofferson (among others) are actually shape shifting lizards?

  13. #13 Fred
    February 8, 2012

    @Gray Falcon, “…you realize that it only takes one member of a conspiracy to bring it down…”

    I sure hope so.

  14. #14 Gray Falcon
    February 8, 2012

    Take note, Fred, that they don’t even need to do so intentionally. The conspiracy Tanya describes requires utter infallibility on the part of thousands.

  15. #15 lilady
    February 8, 2012

    @ Tanya: You didn’t hit a nerve…I’m not the one with delusional parasitosis…or the one who plugs into widespread multiple conspiracies.

    I myself rarely see contrails which are condensations from the exhaust of jet planes…I live in an area near to 3 major airports, just beneath various airports takeoff/landing flight paths. http://contrailscience.com/

    However, when I traveled into the desert Southwest United States and traveled to the end of the Gaspe Peninsula Quebec Province, contrails from planes flying at high altitudes are readily visible.

    You desperately need help for your delusions. You would do well also to stay away from conspiracy websites and study some real history and get yourself educated in the process of government.

  16. #16 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    @Alison, I think I made it pretty clear from my 1st post that I thought Morgellon’s was part of a conspiracy. I mentioned chemtrails, nanotech, etc. from the get go. I didn’t “drag the nazi in it”. I made a sarcastic comment and others used it to try to discredit me.

    I felt some of the “kindness and respect”, Fred’s in particular, could be better described as humouring me. Regardless, Fred is not the Doctor (which is what your bosses apparently call you), or if he is, he was smart enough to make jokes at a Morgellon’s sufferer’s expense anonymously.

    It really seems as though you’re just trying to make excuses for your behaviour, implying I deserve to be picked on because of my views, or that it’s okay because other people are doing it, too. Again, nobody is asking you believe anything I say, but if you don’t, there’s no need to be a jerk about it.

    I try to respect others regardless of whether I agree with all of their opinions. I don’t feel threatened by different perspectives, and feel no need to put people down because they think differently. I have trouble understanding the motives of those who feel the need to ridicule those who don’t conform.

    I think some scientists are only able to view the world through the filter of science, and mainstream science at that. Their intellect may be highly developed, but their intuition ‘muscles’ have completely atrophied. The response to Morgellon’s by the scientific community is a great example of this. If all of these scientists and doctors were thinking from their hearts, and really listening to the Morgellon’s patients themselves with an open mind, rather than relying solely on inconclusive data from a flawed study as their sole source of information, they would have an entirely different opinion of, and attitude toward, Morgellon’s sufferer’s.

    There will be an epidemic of foot in mouth disease the day your almighty CDC is forced to admit the truth.

    @Laura I am not avoiding you, I just don’t feel I owe you an explanation of everything I’m doing. When you have scores of fibers coming out of unbroken skin, you are not going to get a confirmation of a self-diagnosis of Morgellon’s from the vast majority of doctors.

    Most people that seek medical attention for Morgellon’s are prescribed anti-psychotics or other psychiatric medication, and the doctors refuse to analyse, and often even look at samples. Until I find a doctor who I know I can trust, it would not benefit me to bring up Morgellon’s.

    Yes, other (non medical) people see the fibers, too, and yes, they have seen them emerging directly from my skin. Of course I have verified with others that they are real, I would actually PREFER to be delusional.

    Oh and just to be clear, I am not a TP eater. I try to eat as healthy as I possibly can, and I don’t consider toilet paper to be a healthy food choice.

  17. #17 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    “The conspiracy Tanya describes requires utter infallibility on the part of thousands.”

    Precisely, and that is why they’re going to FAIL! 🙂

  18. #18 Gray Falcon
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya, if what you were describing was going on for years, then the point of failure would have happened long ago. I’ve seen complex systems in action, the one you describe has far too many potential points of failure to work for more than a week. Add to the fact that most of the people involved would have no idea what they were really doing, and then you get a system whose lifetime could be measured in hours.

  19. #19 Anton P. Nym
    February 8, 2012

    Damn… now I find myself hoping that Tanya is a Poe, because this is going way over-the-top.

    — Steve

  20. #20 Edith Prickly
    February 8, 2012

    We are on to the globalist agenda to use eugenics through the food, water, air and pharmaceuticals to drastically lower the world’s population and enslave the survivors.

    So when exactly is this dastardly plan going to be put into effect? If the news reports can be believed (wait, is the media in on the conspiracy or just unwitting dupes? I can never remember.) the world’s population is approaching/has already reached 7 billion. Do our Illuminati puppetmasters want the joy of killing as many people as possible when the time comes, or do they need a critical mass of hardy specimens for enslavement?

    And yes, I am making fun of you – I can’t take anyone seriously who makes a 10-minute video of a piece of lint sitting on the end of her finger and tries to claim it’s proof that we’re all being invaded by mysterious nanotech fibers. You are suffering because you refuse to seek effective treatment for your mental health issues and have taken refuge in absurd conspiracy theories instead.

  21. #21 Laura
    February 8, 2012

    People with these weird beliefs almost always avoid carefully checking them. When I’ve suggested ways of checking their beliefs to such people, they’ve always come back with a standard “rap”. That’s what Tanya is doing – she has standard “lines” to repeat and alt-med lingo. What she does NOT do is say, “Good idea, I’ll try THAT!”
    I suggested to a homeopathy believer online that he could do a double-blind experiment on himself to test homeopathy. Homeopathy should be very easy to test vs placebo, since the solutions are basically water – you just need a good way to randomize which is which and a good way to label which is which, that you check later.
    But he barely addressed the question of checking his remedies vs placebo. He had a standardized rap that he did, and he just kept on coming back with variations on it. Tanya seems more intelligent than this person and her rap is more sophisticated, but it’s the same avoidance.

  22. #22 Fred
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya, I am sorry that you are as you describe a “seriously ill human being”. The fact remains that you are not the only person in this world with a chronic medical condition, regardless of the cause. You say that you “have a problem with the lack of respect with which some commentators express their opposing views. It is as though many of the posters have forgotten that I am a human being…”.

    First, I would like to thank Alison and others for their comments. My response here has been tempered by their astute observations and gracious willingness to take time from their busy schedules to help you. People here Tanya, are trying to help you, you are not ‘hearing’ to them. Just sit back for a minute, take a deep breath, realize that no one can ‘see’ you right now.

    Please just read the comments and consider that the manner in which you have been making your decisions all these years could be seriously flawed. Give it a try. You don’t have to tell anyone that you are questioning your own judgment. You owe it to yourself to check and double-check your decisions and make sure that they are sound and in your own best interest.

    Tanya, if your family or others have victimized and abused you so severely, what makes you think that those people have provided you with a proper education and necessary skills to think critically and relate to others in an emotionally healthy manner? Maybe the skills and thinking patterns with which you have been taught or exposed to are as disturbed and skewed as the conspiracies which you claim exist?

    You seem to have a lot invested in your illness and history of abuse, Tanya. A lot of your investment seems related to your ego in that you simply refuse to consider any possibility that you could be wrong, about anything. You are trying to hold your ground.

    The people posting here are not seeking to abuse you further. Give a little leeway and really study, research what they are saying. Let go of your ego, acknowledge the possibly that you could be making mistakes in judgment. Perhaps you have been taking advice from all the wrong people in the past.

    Tanya, perhaps as a result of being severely abused and victimized, thus isolated and distanced from learning and participating in life with people who are caring and willing to take the time to educate you properly has resulted in an incorrect pattern of thinking, causing you to draw incorrect conclusions, illogic.

    If I were you, given your history, I would have a hard time trusting anybody for anything. Some of your feelings are quite understandable. It seems like many important people in your life have really let you down and abused your trust time and time again.

    You mentioned that “It is BEYOND PATHETIC that someone calling themselves a DOCTOR …” People should be able to trust their doctors. Do you feel that paying them should ensure that they will not betray you, or will even like you and want to help you? What I am saying is that if I were you I would be angry too. It is not fair that you had to suffer so much and why, why didn’t someone, anyone intervene on your behalf??

    Are you still being abused? If you are, let us know, I am sure people here will direct you to appropriate help and support.

    If you are no longer in an abusive situation, then you have other choices. First, it certainly does not seem like you are, shall I say, enjoying life to its fullest. Do you want to?

    If you really want help Tanya, and you certainly do seem to be shouting out for help, then the first step is to find someone you can trust. Just trust someone a little bit at first, a little teenie eenie bit. Find someone that you don’t already know, someone who will not feed your fears or prey on your vulnerabilities and naivete. That is different than finding someone who will simply agree with you, but rather find someone who will softly challenge your thinking.

  23. #23 lilady
    February 8, 2012

    @ Tanya @ 206: Please stick around for my post stuck in moderation…I promise you that you won’t be disappointed.

  24. #24 Fred
    February 8, 2012

    Ditto to @220. Please stick around Tanya.

  25. #25 Terrie
    February 8, 2012

    It’s a shame Fred is not the Doctor. I want a ride in the TARDIS. (Oh, c’mon, I’m not the only one thinking that, right?)

  26. #26 Thomas
    February 8, 2012

    “I think some scientists are only able to view the world through the filter of science”

    That’s true. It’s sad that only some scientists are capable of fearlessly eschewing appeals to emotions, self-delusion, and other human weaknesses, but it is those scientists who find the truth as it is, not as they wish or imagine it to be. If all scientists (and all people) viewed the world through the lens of science, we’d all be better off.

    P.S. When dealing with people who claim to believe in conspiracy theories, it’s fun to think about what they’d do if they really believed (and weren’t just pretending to). What would you do if you believed a vast conspiracy was poisoning the world? Would you spout off about the conspiracy on websites, attracting the attention of the evil-doers, who have the motive and capability to silence you permanently?

  27. #27 Tanya
    February 9, 2012

    Hey guys, really don’t feel like I’m being heard here. So much advice I’m getting on here is based on ignorance and assumption, so I thought I’d try a different approach. I have posted a video response on YouTube “re: Still More Evidence That Morgellon’s Disease is Delusional Parasitosis” on my channel, screwedworldorder. It’s kind of long, but I hope you’ll listen with an open mind.

    @Thomas, there are millions of us now exposing some aspect of this conspiracy. The more of us who stand up, the safer it is for all of us. It doesn’t mean some of the bigger fish (ie, Ted Gunderson) don’t get fried, but we’re all going to die eventually anyways, and I’m a firm believer that you don’t go until you’re meant to. These monsters are already poisoning me and my family using soft-kill weapons through the food, water and air and I’m not going down without a fight!

  28. #28 Fred
    February 9, 2012

    Ok, I simply can’t resist. I did try. I really did.

    Tanya, you’re starting to convince me. I’ve been thinking about some of the weird things going around my house, stuff just starts moving without anyone touching it.

    You said your fibers dance to music, well the dishes in my kitchen cabinet dance to changes in daylight. Every day at dusk and dawn for about 30 seconds, my dishes do a little dance. Seriously. I can even hear them from the other rooms in the house. I hear them rattling away in the cabinets, like clockwork. They just seem to love the sunrise and sunset. I mean, really, what else could it be?

  29. #29 Denice Walter
    February 9, 2012

    @ Tanya:

    I don’t know what is causing your problem but obviously you’re suffering- your skin is the source of troubling sensations *whatever* is causing it ( I will not put any labels on the condition or its causation)- the real issue is *suffering* and getting help for that. Peace of mind and comfort.
    You sound as if you’re young- you don’t want this to go on long term- you want to have a decent life. You need to find a caring doctor who will find the appropriate medication that will _stop_ the terrible sensations that are harming you- forget what they call it!- if the meds work, who cares! You want the suffering to stop, don’t you?

  30. #30 Fred
    February 9, 2012

    Holy Toledo! Tanya has posted a 51 minute long YouTube video about us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwglWtrNMJ0&list=UUi2EX3a2iRyi7qFByBhQVLQ&index=1&feature=plcp

    Tanya, first of all, I apologize for making the joke earlier about my dishes dancing. There are train tracks near my house and when the train passes, the vibrations from the train cause the dishes to rattle.

    I’m not a doctor, but seriously, you need help. The doctor you mentioned from this forum is not a medical doctor, but rather a PhD. There is a difference. She did not “gang up on you”.

    The Morgellons and chronic Lyme disease diagnoses are bogus. Yes, Lyme disease exists, but not in the manner in which you seem to believe and it doesn’t manifest the types of symptoms you describe.

    Who was the psychopath you were exposed to? Your parent?

    Tanya, what is the name of the medical doctor that diagnosed you with Morgellons? Specifically who diagnosed your chronic Lyme disease?

    One problem with delusional-like mental health issues is that you do really believe that what you are seeing or hearing is real. I believe that you believe the fibers are in your body.

    I hear the struggling and pain in your voice. I don’t know what else to say. At a minimum, you describe what I understand to be severe PTSD. Those memories you describe sound like flashbacks. I am glad that you are no longer being abused. However, my understanding is that severe childhood abuse and trauma can cause long-lasting psychological challenges. You need to pursue appropriate care for your trauma. This is not Morgellons and it is not Lyme disease. I have extensive knowledge and experience with Lyme disease. This Is Not Lyme.

    Who is telling you that Morgellons causes Bipolar disorder?

    Certainly, there should be places in Canada that cater to trauma victims? Have you looked into these places?

  31. #31 Narad
    February 9, 2012

    Hey guys, really don’t feel like I’m being heard here. So much advice I’m getting on here is based on ignorance and assumption, so I thought I’d try a different approach.

    Which is to say, a rambling 51-minute monologue in a venue in which you have control of the comments. (And, really, you’re the one linking to stopgeoengineering-dot-com, which links to Icke, so the “haha, aliens, what are they talking about” routine doesn’t play.)

    It seems as though you’re looking for a supportive community. Perhaps everybody in the Morgellons circle has already heard everything from everybody else and it’s getting dull. You ought not to expect that the shared fantasy that causes that group to cohere can thus be packed up and taken elsewhere and immediately command not just respect but dutiful indulgence of anything that you want to assert.

    You’re not looking for help, you’re demanding palliative confirmation of a belief system. I’m sorry to be harsh, but as long as you persist in this, you’re just reinforcing your plight. Psychiatry can be frustrating; I know from experience. But I would suggest that you take a step back and ask whether what you’re doing is actually helping. Perhaps it is, at least enough to get by. Perhaps you could find something more effective. But don’t expect the orchestra to spontaneously gather and the limelights to fire whenever you clamber onto an arbitrary stage.

  32. #32 TyrannyNews
    February 10, 2012

    @ Tanya:
    You know, I really can’t find anything in what you’ve said or how you’ve said it to take issue with. Do I know with certainty that any of your claims are false? No. Do I know with certainty that any of your claims are true? No. I do, however have the opinion that you’ve done all that you can to explain your theories and maintained fairness in the face of a virtual armada.

    I’ve never previously visited this forum, but stumbled upon it through a link at randi.org. I was looking for a consensus response to the recent CDC announcement and thought randi.org might include something of the sort. As I’m finding here in the tone of responses to your comment, I found only mean-spirited joking and an endless battle to achieve ultra-conformity.

    It’s starting to sink in with me that, the problem of the “us vs. them” attitude is largely because of the supposed meaning of “Conspiracy Theory.” It doesn’t automatically register with some people that the phrase was perfected in its use by public relations groups. So, the current definition and more importantly the meaning is murky. When the word “conspiracy/conspiracies” was used in reference to you, it was almost certainly intended to paint you in an insulting manner. From my research, when the conspiracy theory becomes a historical event or fact of science this new information doesn’t seem to reach those who might have once challenged it.

    On the topic of Morgellons…I am aware of their existing a web-page on the CDC website as early as 2006 that identified Morgellons disease with some limited but explicit details. They referenced the NIH as indicating the cause was Chromosome 1 duplication/trisomy of q42 11 Q42 12. That page and its cached version at Google were taken down sometime soon after it was found by a Morgellons sufferer.

    What’s more interesting to me is the expanse of time between the commissioning of the study in Jan 2008 and the first research article to be produced in Jan 2012. And, $700,000 devoted to the study seems a paltry sum.

    Tanya, you’ve done a heroic job (so far as I’ve read in this thread) in attempting to prevent this thread from degrading into one with nothing but jokes and unfair assaults. I commend you for it and recommend you avoid learning anything from posters that seek only to ingratiate and serve themselves.

  33. #33 Tanya
    February 10, 2012

    I recorded a “Part 2”, tried to be a little more concise. A little difficult with my concentration, but I do the best I can. I will get that uploaded tomorrow. In the meantime, worth checking out on YouTube, a video called “Jeff And Jan Smith – Morgellons…See What The CDC Calls Hallucinations !” More of this non-existent fluff from our imaginations. In my video I’ll show you some of the material I’ve collected from my skin.

    @Fred, can I ask what your profession is that you “have extensive knowledge and experience with Lyme disease.” and that you feel you have the authority to decide that I do or do not have Morgellon’s or Lyme? Google “lyme symptoms”, click on what should be the #1 result (canlyme) and you will see a list which mentions virtually every symptom I’ve described (headaches, joint/muscle pain, fatigue, digestive issues, reproductive issues, bipolar and depression, insomnia) and several other symptoms I experience, but forgot to mention.

  34. #34 Gray Falcon
    February 10, 2012

    TyrannyNews, large crimes leave large quantities of evidence. You have nothing. Do the math.

  35. #35 Fred
    February 10, 2012

    @Tanya “Fred, can I ask what your profession is …”

    All you need to know is that I am not a “medical doctor” and for purposes of this website you can call me “Fred”.

    You should understand that not all doctors and not all patient support sites have your best interest in mind or offer accurate medical information. I suggest you question the accuracy of the information presented by your source, canlyme, really research it and go to the source. Where did they get the list of all those symptoms you describe, what was the original purpose of that list being written, was it to document the known symptoms of Lyme disease or to simply make a list of every possible symptom for a research project about Lyme?

    You do not seem like you are ready to do the work to get better. When your suffering gets to be too much for you and you lose the little remaining audience you have, maybe you will change.

    I have better things to do than to argue with you about chemtrails, conspiracies, Lyme or Morgellons. Those topics have been discussed and explained to you quite clearly by others much more qualified and skilled than myself.

    You can believe what you will. My objection is that you are spreading bogus information into the patient population. The people on this blog can easily refute your paranoid allegations, but many patients can not. Do everyone a favor and keep your illness to yourself. The qualified, reputable doctors are busy enough trying to deal with patients who actually want to get better.

  36. #36 Terrie
    February 10, 2012

    What is with some people and Google U? Do people no longer understand the difference between a finding tool and real information source?

  37. #37 Fred
    February 10, 2012

    Terrie, As I see it, a large part of the confusion and misinformation about Lyme disease is that a lot of it is being spread by real doctors. Those symptom lists Tanya referred to are being distributed by many leading ILADS doctors and given to their patients with the explanation that Lyme can indeed cause all of those symptoms. It is hard for patients to distinguish what is true or false when licensed physicians are giving out the bogus information and diagnoses.

    Google U aside, the so-called LLMDs have created quite their own share of the market from people like Tanya and others.

  38. #38 JGC
    February 10, 2012

    Let’s think for a while about the scope and resources of the conspiracy Tanya describes.

    It has to be multi-national. It has to be sanctioned at the highest levels of all governments working in concert. It has to entirely control all of the world’s health care, internal and international security organizations, all bracnches of all militaries. They must if not control monitor and where necessary co-opt or silence all of the world’s health-care and public health professionals, engineers, investigative reporters, human rights advocates, economists, historians, etc. It must have total control of all media.

    And it has to have been doing this for decades, without a single mistake.

    An conspiracy this vast, with this level of organization and that degree of economic, personnel and material resources would be unstoppable, so why mess around with things like chemtrails, flouride, Morgellons? There’d be no reason to hide its existence and the apocalypse would already upon us. What are the conspirators afraid of–Patrick Swayze wannabees taking to the hills of Colorado and fighting the good fight,a la Red Dawn?

  39. #39 Terrie
    February 10, 2012

    @Fred, it’s more that she had repeatedly referenced “Google this topic” as if that was proof. As a librarian, the googlification of information is somewhat depressing to me. I love Google, but it’s hardly the be all and end all of research.

  40. #40 herr doktor bimler
    February 10, 2012

    TyrannyNews @231:
    I am aware of their existing a web-page on the CDC website as early as 2006 that identified Morgellons disease with some limited but explicit details. They referenced the NIH as indicating the cause was Chromosome 1 duplication/trisomy of q42 11 Q42 12. That page and its cached version at Google were taken down sometime soon after it was found by a Morgellons sufferer.

    So your awareness of “a web-page on the CDC website” does not extend as far as having seen it, but but boils down to “I heard about it from some anonymous stranger on the WWW who claimed to have seen it once but now it’s disappeared without even any trace in the records of a private company (Google)”?

  41. #41 Narad
    February 10, 2012

    So your awareness of “a web-page on the CDC website” does not extend as far as having seen it

    Not that “it” is difficult to find, despite having been immediately purged from teh Intertubes by the Powers That Be. (Extra points for the Tom Bearden reference in the URL.) Interestingly, none of the versions floating around contain the URL of the purported original, and at least one has had the HTML modified to turn the background yellow on the “damning” text. Indeed, a search on “NOTE: To learn more or to report suspected cases” turns up only references to this very item.

  42. #42 lilady
    February 10, 2012

    @herr doktor bimler: As they say in the media business…that “story has legs” and has traveled across the miles, time…and on the crank internet websites.

    @ Tyranny News: You really shouldn’t be spreading this whopper on the internet. Here for your perusal is a link to the genetic disorder “Silver-Russell Phenotype” published in the British Medical Journal:

    http://jmg.bmj.com/content/39/8/582.full

    Oh goodie! There are actual pictures of the young man with this genetic phenotype. See his skeletal anomalies, see his kyphosis and read the article…to see that he does not have delusional parasitosis.

  43. #43 Tanya
    February 10, 2012

    @Fred I’m a little surprised you’re not a doctor, considering your total lack of ability to listen. You sound like quite the know-it-all and come across as very condescending.

    “You do not seem like you are ready to do the work to get better. When your suffering gets to be too much for you and you lose the little remaining audience you have, maybe you will change.”

    Have you not heard anything I’ve been saying Fred? I HAVE changed my entire lifestyle and approach to healing after following the advice of experts, for many years, got me nowhere. I have made many changes in my life, all with positive results.

    I’ve relocated to a far less polluted environment, cleaned up my diet, taken up growing my own food, become much more physically active, I am constantly learning about various ways to make myself healthier and and applying that knowledge.

    I’ve taken myself from being a nearly housebound agorophbic, experiencing 100+ “physical memories”/flashbacks of sexual abuse/day who sweat so much her feet were damaged from constant moisture, constantly craving sugar & carbs, very overweight, so unable to focus I required either complete silence or white noise and an uncluttered environment to complete simple tasks, difficulty falling asleep, multiple panic attacks/day, hair falling out, raw itchy scalp, adult acne, neck & shoulders always going out, recurring ear infections, recurring thoughts of suicide, frequent abdominal pain. This was the result of following the recommendations of doctors, psychiatrists and other medical experts for years.

    Now all of the symptoms listed above have either been eliminated completely or have improved substantially as the result of major lifestyle CHANGES.

    “I have better things to do than to argue with you about chemtrails, conspiracies, Lyme or Morgellons.”

    Ditto. I’m here to raise awareness.

    “Those topics have been discussed and explained to you quite clearly by others much more qualified and skilled than myself.”

    Where? When did this happen?

    “Do everyone a favor and keep your illness to yourself. The qualified, reputable doctors are busy enough trying to deal with patients who actually want to get better.”

    WOW. Do you HEAR how you sound? You are essentially telling me, someone you claim to believe suffers from severe mental illness, to crawl in a hole and die?! Thank you again for illustrating for us all the shameful ignorance and callousness with which Morgellon’s sufferers are treated. BEYOND PATHETIC could be used to describe more than one commenter on this page. Astonishing levels of arrogance here, holy cow!

    My connection is messed up today, so it may be a bit until my video response Part 2 is up, not that Fred has time to watch it 😉

  44. #44 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 10, 2012

    It’s starting to sink in with me that, the problem of the “us vs. them” attitude is largely because of the supposed meaning of “Conspiracy Theory.” It doesn’t automatically register with some people that the phrase was perfected in its use by public relations groups. So, the current definition and more importantly the meaning is murky. When the word “conspiracy/conspiracies” was used in reference to you, it was almost certainly intended to paint you in an insulting manner. From my research, when the conspiracy theory becomes a historical event or fact of science this new information doesn’t seem to reach those who might have once challenged it.

    I can agree with you on one point: the phrase “conspiracy theory” has definitely come to mean something more than “a theory (in the vernacular sense) about a conspiracy.”  To say that someone’s explanation of events is a conspiracy theory is definitely to imply that their theory, however intricate it may be, probably bears little resemblance to reality.

    But then you assert that “conspiracy theory” came to have this connotation because of underhanded spin-doctoring by unnamed “public relations groups.”  Maybe conspiracy theories got a bad reputation for a much, much simpler reason:  most of them are bad theories.  

    They are bad theories in the sense that instead of trying to find the conclusion that most naturally fits the evidence, they try to find a way to twist the evidence (or invent evidence entirely) so that it can still come to their desired conclusion no matter what.

    They are bad theories in the sense that, almost without exception, they are constructed to be unfalsifiable.  If you are unfamiliar with this concept, it does not mean, as some people erroneously guess, that the theory could not possibly be false.  It means that no matter how false the theory is, the theory is such that the person who believes it will never see that it is and always has been wrong.

    They are bad theories in that they do not bring believers closer to the truth, as good theorizing does, but lead them further away and weaken their ability to find their way back.  They isolate believers socially and put them through unnecessary fear and suffering.  They set believers up for the ridicule, pity and contempt of others because, freed from the constraints of reality, the believers’ theories grow unbelievably lurid, baroque and improbable, and the believers are self-blinded to this.  Is the reaction of the mainstream when exposed to these bizarre theories frequently mocking and cruel?  Yes, but that’s also frequently the reaction to someone who walks around with underpants on their head; the root cause of the mockery is the bizarre behavior, so clearly bizarre except to the person who’s doing it, convinced that it’s actually rational behavior.

    Let’s look at a theory about a conspiracy that wasn’t a conspiracy theory:  Watergate.  We had high-level political figures caught in an act of burglary and we had the President of the United States trying to minimize and hide the crime.  The theory “the President was aware of their illegal activities and may have been the one to order them” is a perfectly reasonable extrapolation from that evidence.

    Now let’s look at how “conspiracy theory” thinking goes by contrast.  There is an extremely fringe theory out there based upon a couple of individuals who claim they are the victims of “Project Monarch,” a secret CIA mind-control project that used “trauma-based mind control” to deliberately create multiple-personality disorder in certain children so they could be employed as both assassins and as sex slaves for public figures, not just political figures like Henry Kissinger but also entertainment figures like Bob Hope.  It should also be mentioned that instead of supporting each others’ stories, the two individuals who claim to be “Monarch” survivors accuse each other of having “ripped off” their tales of woe from the other.  One of the survivors, “Cathy,” tells frequently how her abuse by “Project Monarch” left her with horrific scars all over her body.  The only one who claims to ever have seen the scars is the man who effectively acts as her agent, sharing in the money she makes talking and writing about her lurid supposed history.

    As was said before, good theories try to explain the evidence.  In this case, the first question that should come to mind is:  WHAT evidence?? There isn’t any!  Even the evidence that could be revealed any time, i.e., the scars, has never been seen, and there is no good reason why someone supposedly so eager to have the truth of her past known should be withholding that evidence.  The most reasonable explanation for the evidence that actually exists is not that “Project Monarch” exists or existed, but that one very sick woman dreamed it up, another very sick woman imitated her, and one very venal man saw money to be made by playing along.

    Now this is how the people who adopt “conspiracy theories” handle evidence by contrast:  at a conference for supposed survivors of “mind control” and “ritual abuse,” Cathy was a speaker, and her lurid account was given great attention and credibility, despite not a shred of evidence to support it.  Someone did ask, however, if Project Monarch had forced Cathy into the wildly sexually promiscuous life that she claimed, why had she never contracted any sexually transmitted infections, as so many people who live sexually promiscuous lifestyles do?  The speaker, without missing a beat, hypothesized that probably “trauma-based mind control” affected the immune system and provided protection against STIs.  Think about that, for a second:  that is a medical miracle being casually hypothesized on the spot.  We know ways that bad mental states can make the immune system worse, but now we’re being told that mental torture can make the immune system awesome?  Is that really a more logical explanation of the evidence than “Cathy didn’t actually have the sex with hundreds of perverted celebrities that she claims she did”?

    Yes, there exists an “us vs. them” attitude between conspiracy theorists and the mainstream.  I think you are missing the obvious by thinking it doesn’t originate with the conspiracy theorists, who so frequently divide the world into “the brave truth-seekers who have figured out the conspiracy even though they can’t back it up with evidence,” “the sheeple who don’t agree with the conspiracy theory because they’re hoodwinked into thinking extraordinary evidence should be had before accepting extraordinary claims,” and of course “the shills and everyone else in on the conspiracy.”  Are you telling me that isn’t “us vs. them” thinking?

  45. #45 Fred
    February 10, 2012

    @Tyranny News “What’s more interesting to me is the expanse of time between the commissioning of the study in Jan 2008 and the first research article to be produced in Jan 2012.”:

    A quick Internet search seems to indicate that the CDC study may have been completed near the end of 2010. However, the study then had to go through peer review and then journal publication processes. This takes time, not a conspiracy.

  46. #46 Narad
    February 10, 2012

    @Tyranny News “What’s more interesting to me is the expanse of time between the commissioning of the study in Jan 2008 and the first research article to be produced in Jan 2012.”:

    A quick Internet search seems to indicate that the CDC study may have been completed near the end of 2010.

    For the paper in question, the following are the salient items:

    Received: April 29, 2011; Accepted: December 7, 2011; Published: January 25, 2012

    … This study was conducted among enrollees of Kaiser Permanente of Northern California (KPNC) during July 2006 through June 2008.

    Given how wide a net they cast in terms of data gathering, I don’t know that 2+ years for reduction and manuscript preparation is all that suspicious. Perhaps with more resources it could have move along more quickly.

    Yet one thing seems certain, which is that there must be some sort of implied permissible window: if this analysis came out “too quickly,” it would be just as “interesting” as the great “expanse of time.”

  47. #47 Tanya
    February 10, 2012

    @TyrannyNews Thanks for your encouraging words. I find it hilarious that it was suggested I was here looking for support, considering the kinds of topics discussed here. It is nice to know someone on here is capable of compassion.

    Whether people believe what I’m dealing with is physiological or psychological shouldn’t make a difference in how they treat me. As I’ve said before, if these people really think I am in a vulnerable state, as they claim to, they would be even more caring and gentle in their approach.

    That’s not a ploy for their sympathy, I’m trying to point out the fact that some of the posters on here make it clear that they think poking fun at and patronizing the mentally ill (or those they claim to believe to be mentally ill) is perfectly acceptable behaviour, when in fact it is deplorable.

    It reveals a great deal about their character and prejudiced and disdainful attitudes toward those facing mental health challenges.

    I suspect they feel justified in their treatment of me because at some level they know what I’m saying is true and it terrifies them, which manifests as hostility toward me.

    “Doctor Fred”, especially, reveals his feelings about the general public’s ability to think for themselves (implying he feels our thinking should be done for us by a scientific elite?), in his anger at me for misinforming people, when I don’t offer any medical advice, nor try to tell anyone what to think. I simply speak from my own experiences and research, which I have every right to do, and when I share this type of information, I expect people to do their own research and not take action based solely on my opinion.

    “From my research, when the conspiracy theory becomes a historical event or fact of science this new information doesn’t seem to reach those who might have once challenged it.”

    Or they pretend it doesn’t reach them to save face and so they can continue to live as if nothing is wrong.

    Yes, the pittance spent on this bogus study is nearly as insulting as the study’s “findings”, or lack thereof.

    I appreciate your input and for sticking up for me. 🙂

  48. #48 Tanya
    February 11, 2012

    “re: Still More Evidence That Morgellon’s Disease is Delusional Parasitosis” Part 2 is up on my YouTube channel, screwedworldorder.

  49. #49 Narad
    February 11, 2012

    Thanks for your encouraging words. I find it hilarious that it was suggested I was here looking for support, considering the kinds of topics discussed here. It is nice to know someone on here is capable of compassion.

    So you were looking for compassion? “Hi, I’m here for some compassion, and by the way, that involves accepting that there is some sort of amorphous nanochembildermasonschild thing going on, and make it snappy”? That version of “compassion”?

  50. #50 Tanya
    February 11, 2012

    Yes Narad, I came here for compassion. I thought ‘hmm, here’s a bunch of people who think Morgellon’s is a delusion, I’m gonna get me some compassion here.’

    Personally I try to treat everyone with compassion and respect. That’s how I was raised. It doesn’t mean I have to accept everything they believe or like everything about them. I just figure, as much as certain people frustrate and confound me, if I was in their shoes, if I had lived through their experiences, I would probably see that they have good reason to think and behave the way they do.

    I don’t ask or expect anyone to agree with or accept what I’m saying (I’m simply here to encourage people to do their own research and draw their own conclusions), but just because you disagree doesn’t mean you have to be unkind or judgemental.

    How would you feel if, like me, you believed that everyone’s bodies were infested with this manmade nano-crap, regardless of whether they are shedding fibers, and that the CDC was hiding what it knows? What if you were one of the people with seeing brightly coloured, iridescent and even moving fibers coming out of your skin on a daily basis, and the presence of those fibers was causing debilitating pain, fatigue, headaches, etc. and you were in near constant discomfort?

    Would you be mad? Would you want to do everything in your power to expose what’s going on and protect the people you care about? Perhaps if you had lived through my life experiences you would be reacting much in the same way I am. Nobody’s “better” than anyone else, as many on here seem to think.

    When I ask you to be nice to me, it’s not “for me”. I am asking you to be sensitive toward Morgellon’s sufferers and people dealing with mental illness in general, to think about how your words might affect someone who is facing a crisis.

    Anyways, check out the video “Jeff And Jan Smith – Morgellons…See What The CDC Calls Hallucinations !” and ask yourself why, if the CDC believed these fibers, which I KNOW you can see, were actually cotton or nylon fibers, as the study suggests, WHY wouldn’t they just say that people are simply MISTAKEN? This study, that DID find fibers on and in people’s skin, actually DEBUNKS the theory that Morgellon’s is delusions of infestation because it proves the participants were witnessing something tangible, regardless of what it is.

    Again, why do they not just conclude that people were mistaken as to what the fibers were, rather than suggest they were hallucinating? Obviously they want people to associate Morgellon’s with “craziness” to deter people from investigating and to cause confusion and propogate ignorance.

    How can they call us delusional if the samples people are extracting from their skin are visible to EVERYONE? If someone thought they had chicken pox, but it turned out to be an allergic reaction, you wouldn’t say that person was delusional for thinking they had chicken pox, you would say they were mistaken. Those were NOT cotton fibers they found, and by promoting the lie that it is a delusion, they can pretend the fibers they did find don’t exist!

  51. #51 Fred
    February 11, 2012

    @Tanya Doing your own research online will result in you getting incorrect, distorted information from dubious sources, such as you list from canlyme. Those long lists of nearly 100+ symptoms from Lyme disease are unfounded. The symptoms are being misinterpreted and that distorted data is being spread across the Internet. This results in patients like yourself being mislead about the real cause of their symptoms.

    There are a lot of medical doctors out there that will in fact diagnose you as having any disease that you want. They profit from it. Exploiting you is good for their business. You are an easy target for them, especially given your history.

    Delusional does not necessarily mean hallucinating. We all see those fibers in your films. However, there is no evidence that they are anything but carpet fibers and other environmental debris.

    If you look for an LLMD to diagnose you with chronic Lyme disease, I assure you that you will find one. Some will even encourage you to sell your home, cash out your life savings, and relocate near their office so that they can gain total control over your life and more easily prey on your fears.

    You post that you are a stay at home mom. This cycle of mental illness could likely continue onto your children. You need help -more help.

    It is very sad to see that some doctors are manipulating seriously ill patients in this manner. If you are the Tanya commenting in the article you posted at #149, then there should be plenty of resources available for you to receive adequate assistance, assuming you can afford it and are open to receiving it.

    Good Luck.

  52. #52 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    February 11, 2012

    Tanya,
    A delusion is a belief firmly held even though the observable evidence says otherwise.
    If someone sees fibers sticking to his/her skin, that’s not a delusion. If someone based on direct observation comes to believe that the fibers were pushed out through the skin, that’s not necessarily a delusion. If someone continues to believe the fibers are unknown to science and were pushed through the skin despite being examined and found that the fibers are common ones that can be completely explained as coming from the external environment and merely adhering to the skin, that starts to look a little delusional.
    This does not say that the fibers do not exist.

  53. #53 Tanya
    February 11, 2012

    @Fred, Obviously when I’m researching something, I don’t expect everything I come across to be 100% accurate. I have noticed that my symptoms are similar to symptoms Lyme sufferer’s complain of. Just because a symptom is listed on CanLyme or anywhere else doesn’t mean it was “scientifically proven” to have resulted from Lyme. Those lists are for reference, not diagnosis. I think considering my symptoms and how long I have had them, Lyme is worth ruling out, and where I am living I will be fortunate to find an MD at all, nevermind an “LLMD”.

    “There are a lot of medical doctors out there that will in fact diagnose you as having any disease that you want. They profit from it.”

    No, really? That’s never crossed my mind before. So you’re saying, not all doctors are honest? I’m stunned. I thought all physicians were hand-picked by the angels for their honesty and integrity. Don’t worry, Fred. I own no home, savings or other assets to exploit. Being disabled your entire adult life does that.

    EARTH TO FRED: I haven’t been “manipulated” by any doctor. I am currently under my own medical care and my health has improved substantially as a result of the steps I’ve taken based on my own research and intuition. Are you saying I should go back to doing the things that were only making me sick, depressed and at times even suicidal? Should I continue to hound doctors who have told me they don’t know what is wrong and don’t know what more they can do to help? Do you know what it’s like to be treated like a hypochondriac just because they don’t yet have the information necessary to figure out what’s wrong with you? Eventually you either let it kill you, or you take matters into your own hands, educate yourself and become your own healer.

    “If you are the Tanya commenting in the article you posted at #149, then there should be plenty of resources available for you to receive adequate assistance”

    Yes, I am that Tanya, but I don’t see what the following comment says about the resources available to me.:

    “Some common myths about Morgellon’s; 1) Morgellon’s is a skin condition. Truth is, many sufferer’s, myself included, have no lesions, and see fibers emerging from intact skin. 2) Morgellon’s is rare. There are several doctors and scientists who know Morgellon’s exists, and some of their findings suggest EVERYONE has this material in their bodies and that it is altering the structure and composition of our blood. I suspect that those showing symptoms are the ones whose systems are rejecting the material, for whatever reason. 3) Morgellon’s is a delusion. Isn’t a delusion something only you can percieve? Everyone I have shown these fibers to can see them. A growing number of doctors claim to be able to see them, too. Search “Are You Delusional? Find out now! FREE Instant Test!”. Maybe you are suffering from these delusions, too. FMI on the coverup, and what Morgellon’s really is, I recommend you search the article “CDC Calls Morgellons Nanoworms A Delusion, Protects DARPA”.”

    If not thinking for yourself, or taking responsibility for your own health is working for you, then you keep doing that. I’ll do what works for me.

  54. #54 Vicki
    February 11, 2012

    Tanya,

    As it happens, I know someone who is in pain all the time, and who sometimes has visual and olfactory hallucinations. If we’re in the same place, that person may ask me “do you smell X?” We both know my friend has a better sense of smell than I do, but my friend still finds it reassuring either to be told that no, this odor is really there, or to have me say that some unpleasant thing (like mildew) isn’t really in the house. I have also mentioned if I saw, or squashed, a bug–not just so they can clean or get bug repellent or such, but because that way my friend knows that those bugs aren’t a hallucination.

    The point is, my friend is glad to have the outside reality check. They aren’t insisting that I agree that the room smells of X or that there are insects around the lamp. My saying that I do or don’t see or smell something doesn’t make the sight or smell go away, but it does help my friend navigate the world. It means they aren’t swatting at bugs that aren’t there, or ignoring ones that are. I think it’s respectful of me to answer those questions to the best of my ability, which might be “no, I don’t see those” or “yes, I smell X” or “I’m not sure.”

  55. #55 Narad
    February 11, 2012

    When I ask you to be nice to me, it’s not “for me”. I am asking you to be sensitive toward Morgellon’s sufferers and people dealing with mental illness in general, to think about how your words might affect someone who is facing a crisis.

    Tanya, “nice” doesn’t mean anything in this context. I have taken you seriously enough to sit through the better part of 90 minutes of your Youtube monologues. If you think I am unfamiliar with mental illness and very real associated crises, you are mistaken. My experiences have not made me more inclined to indulge conspiratorial fantasies.

    The mere fact that you would say somthing like this indicates that you have some insight into what you’re doing:

    How would you feel if, like me, you believed that everyone’s bodies were infested with this manmade nano-crap, regardless of whether they are shedding fibers, and that the CDC was hiding what it knows?

    It’s up to you to decide whether the relief provided by this pursuit is adequate. Obedience to demands that “you children” “WAKE UP!” and join you on the bad trip isn’t in the cards one way or the other.

  56. #56 Narad
    February 11, 2012

    Yes, I am that Tanya, but I don’t see what the following comment says about the resources available to me.:

    Um, Tanya, the text that follows is something that you posted somewhere else.

  57. #57 Fred
    February 11, 2012

    Tanya @149 posted, “http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2096439/Morgellons-IS-real-Thousands-claim-suffer-agonising-skin-condition-doctors-claim-psychological.html”

    Tanya, Let me be more clear. Your comment included your full name and location, Tanya MacDonald, BC Canada. There are some major cities in BC Canada, and judging from your videos, you also appear to be relatively close to a major air base, Comox.

    According to Wikipedia, Comox Air Base is in Comox, BC, which is located on the eastern coast of Vancouver Island. (What I would do to see that beautiful part of the country!) Both of these would indicate to me that you can not be too far from full and competent medical services.

    Therefore, your comment does indeed indirectly indicate to me that you have access to medical resources.

  58. #58 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 11, 2012

    Isn’t a delusion something only you can percieve? Everyone I have shown these fibers to can see them.

    You seem to be confusing the words “hallucination” and “delusion.” Sensory perceptions that don’t actually exist are hallucinations. Delusions are beliefs strongly held without reference to evidence or despite contrary evidence.

    Let me give you an example. If I look out of my window and I think I see a black van, and there’s actually no van there, that’s a hallucination. If there is a black van, but immediately upon seeing it, I jump to the belief that it was sent by a secret government conspiracy out to get me, that’s a delusion.

    Note that in the latter case, everyone can see the black van. The black van really is there! But my beliefs about who’s in the van, and why it’s outside my house, are delusions, because they aren’t based on the evidence.

  59. #59 Tanya
    February 11, 2012

    Fred, as I’ve explained, I’m looking for a regular family doctor, and yes, 2 costly ferry trips away there is a city with access to more than one physician. I do occasionally see doctors about other issues, though this is normally in a walk in clinic, where I don’t see the same doctor. I have relocated to different communities a couple of times in recent years and finding a regular physician has not been a top priority over the past few years, as my health has been steadily improving and I haven’t had any recent health emergencies.

    As I explained before, I am a little wary of telling a Dr. I have Morgellon’s, although I have plans to do so once I find someone I can trust. I will not be taking anti-psychotic medications or seeing a specialist about delusions. Again, I have shown the fibers coming out of my skin to other people, and they see them, too.

    Can you honestly tell me all those fibers shown in the video “Jeff And Jan Smith – Morgellons…See What The CDC Calls Hallucinations !” are just cotton, particularly the ones that move, or that they are not embedded into the skin in some of the photos? Fibers absolutely could get suck in scar tissue or broken skin, but this is coming out of intact skin all over my entire body.

    In fact, I shed so much of it my entire house and all my electronics are infested with it. I spend an hour or more per day walking around removing this junk from surfaces in my home. A couple of times a month I spend the whole day giving my home a thorough de-fuzzing.

    I have no carpets in the house, I like to see my surroundings so I have few curtains, the laundry room is always kept closed when I’m using the dryer, and only have one small short-haired black dog. When examined closely, the majority of the fiber is red, blue and white, consistent with the colours of the majority of the ones from my skin and NOT consistent with the majority of our clothing upholstery, etc.

    I have moved a few times in recent years and within a couple of weeks, I thoroughly infested my new homes. FMI on Morgellon’s patients infesting their home environment, google the article “New, Serious
    Morgellons Revelations”. I experience and I plan on making a a video on this very subject in the near future.

    Anyways, Fred, A good doctor will examine samples and do a thorough examination, possibly even refer the patient to be examined by a dermatologist, before reaching the conclusion the patient is delusional. Anything less is malpractice and even excellent doctors can be wrong about some things. Just because I’m not popping pills from the first doctor I can find doesn’t mean I’m not taking major steps toward getting healthy. There are many paths to wellness.

  60. #60 herr doktor bimler
    February 12, 2012

    everyone’s bodies were infested with this manmade nano-crap, regardless of whether they are shedding fibers

    OMFSM the Govt. lied to me! They told me it was midichlorians in the injection!

  61. #61 Edith Prickly
    February 12, 2012

    In fact, I shed so much of it my entire house and all my electronics are infested with it. I spend an hour or more per day walking around removing this junk from surfaces in my home. A couple of times a month I spend the whole day giving my home a thorough de-fuzzing.

    Tanya, this is likely a wasted effort but I’m going to try one more time to introduce a reality check into this discussion. That stuff on your electronics is common household DUST. The people who are encouraging you to believe otherwise do not have your best interests in mind. Once again, the fibers on your skin and in your house are DUST! They are not manmade nanotech fibers. There is no conspiracy to infect everybody. For your own sake, please let go of these fantasies before you get completely untethered from reality.

  62. #62 Narad
    February 13, 2012

    Oh, great, now I’ve heard of the Red Wine Test. The photographic element is akin to that of fans of “liver flushes.”

  63. #63 Tanya
    February 13, 2012

    Vicki, you are talking about offering advice to a friend in a respectful manner. Advice you say was requested.

    What many people here have done is make jokes at the expense of someone who did not come here seeking advice. I posted because I truly believe the human race is in danger and I feel it is my responsibility to warn people.

    I am not insisting that anyone agree with or even like what I have to say. I just have trouble understanding some people’s need to be an a-hole just because they don’t agree with me. You seem to have the mistaken impression that my problem is the fact that not everyone agrees with me.

    I wonder how these guys treat religious people. Some religious folks have some pretty wacky beliefs. Do they think it’s okay to make fun of them, too? I am pretty accepting of most everyone as long as they aren’t child molesters, axe murderers or Shirley Phelps-Roper. Some of the things people believe are pretty bizarre, but that doesn’t make them a bad person who deserves to be treated disrespectfully.

    It *is* possible to vehemently disagree with someone while not being a complete prick.

    Believe it or not, I’m doing this because I care about people, even the condescending know-it-alls, because I know the majority of them are only like that because they’ve been programmed and drugged from birth so they can’t think for themselves, and to ridicule anyone who still can. We are all under mind control to some degree, clearly some more than others.

    **********************

    “If there is a black van, but immediately upon seeing it, I jump to the belief that it was sent by a secret government conspiracy out to get me, that’s a delusion.”

    Agreed 100%. However, if you have seen compelling evidence suggesting the government is planning to take you away in a black van, then that’s an informed opinion. I am not just parroting what someone else said. I have been researching the New World Order and global depopulation/eugenics “conspiracy theory” for years, and at first I was angry because I thought it couldn’t be true and that people were using false information to sell books, etc. I am a very skeptical person. I need to see or experience something for myself before I accept it as truth.

    I should also point out that not all Morgellon’s sufferers think it’s part of a conspiracy. Most don’t know what the hell it is. Are they delusional, too?

    *************************

    “Tanya, this is likely a wasted effort but I’m going to try one more time to introduce a reality check into this discussion. That stuff on your electronics is common household DUST. The people who are encouraging you to believe otherwise do not have your best interests in mind. Once again, the fibers on your skin and in your house are DUST! They are not manmade nanotech fibers. There is no conspiracy to infect everybody.”

    You seem so sure that you’re right. How do you know what you are saying is the truth? How deeply have you researched Morgellon’s? Have you ever spoken face-to-face with someone with Morgellon’s or are you just basing your conclusions on an inconclusive study and what you percieve to be popular opinion? What qualifications or experience do you have that gives you any authority to decide whether I’m delusional?

    Those who accuse me of being naive, look in the mirror. Admit that YOU can’t *prove* Morgellon’s doesn’t exist, even the CDC couldn’t prove that, and you are basing all your *assumptions* about me on your *assumptions* about Morgellon’s and nothing more. Furthermore, you are using your unfounded assumptions as justification for your mean-spirited jokes and codescending “advice”. Pretty sad that none of you seem to be able to grasp any of this, despite how smart and educated some of you seem to think you are.

  64. #64 Lawrence
    February 13, 2012

    @Tanya – the old adage is “you can’t prove a negative.”

    It isn’t up to the world to prove the Morgellons doesn’t exist, because first it has to be proven to exist at all.

    Again, you are neck-deep in a conspiracy theory that would, as has been stated before, function with perfect operation over the course of decades, made up of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of individuals – and not one had a change of heart or would be able to release actual evidence that any of what you say is actually true.

  65. #65 Edith Prickly
    February 13, 2012

    You seem so sure that you’re right. How do you know what you are saying is the truth? How deeply have you researched Morgellon’s? Have you ever spoken face-to-face with someone with Morgellon’s or are you just basing your conclusions on an inconclusive study and what you percieve to be popular opinion?

    I’ve watched your video and plowed through your many posts here – does that count as research? Your arguments are not convincing because they’re based on highly implausible conspiracy theories — to wit:

    Believe it or not, I’m doing this because I care about people, even the condescending know-it-alls, because I know the majority of them are only like that because they’ve been programmed and drugged from birth so they can’t think for themselves, and to ridicule anyone who still can. We are all under mind control to some degree, clearly some more than others.

    Sigh. The Matrix was just a movie, you know.

    What qualifications or experience do you have that gives you any authority to decide whether I’m delusional?

    I have none, and I don’t believe I ever used the word delusional. I merely pointed out that there is a much simpler explanation for the fibers that keep “infesting” your living spaces. However, I am quite familiar with most of the conspiracy theories you keep citing in support of your arguments, and the very fact that I can easily read about them online means that the cover’s been blown for quite some time, doesn’t it? And yet we’re all still here.

  66. #66 Bronze Dog
    February 13, 2012

    It doesn’t take an expert to apply Occam’s Razor to a conspiracy theory. Don’t add new entities to an explanation without some evidence-based reason why that entity is necessary to match the evidence.

    Global conspiracies would have a hard time getting anywhere. Humans are diverse creatures with their own varied motives and goals. Humans are not monolithic, obedient robots. Large conspiracies are likely to be too bogged down with motivating all their members to remain silent, that they couldn’t get anywhere. Paying out hush money and hiring assassins would quickly become a huge expense, alongside with the bureaucracy necessary to keep a huge operation coordinated. The logistics just don’t look plausible to me.

    I think if someone wanted money or power out of making a disease, it’d be much safer and easier to manufacture a scare for non-critical thinkers than to design, manufacture, and spread an actual ailment. A real disease can be discovered, studied, and potentially treated by independent scientists. Heck, depending on the nature of the manufactured ailment, diligent amateurs who understand the scientific method might be able to replicate results.

    A fake scare can simply spread by long-standing conspiracy theory tropes, since most people generally wouldn’t pay much attention to the scientists and skeptics who’d dispute the theory. A fake scare requires less manpower (just some celebrity alties), fewer materials (books, the gullible media, websites), and less coordination between agents (No need for internal consistency where irrationality rules). That’s why we have several decades worth of fake health scares and global conspiracy theories, yet the conspirators never actually achieve any of the big goals they’re supposedly after.

    If you want skeptics to take a conspiracy theory seriously, you’ll need to know why we reject so many other conspiracies and then set your theory apart from them in a way that is significant to a skeptic. And I mean the reasons skeptics talk about, not the straw man arguments in the echo chambers of the internet.

    Speaking of which, there’s one problem I always have with the trope of “think for yourself”: Often, the people who make the demand can’t seem to understand that other people might come to a different conclusion as a result of thinking for themselves.

  67. #67 TBruce
    February 13, 2012

    Tanya:

    One big problem with conspiracy theories is which ones do you believe? You claim that your research has convinced you of the “New World Order” etc. Are you also convinced that President Obama was not born in the USA, and faked his Hawaiian birth certificate? There’s lots of evidence proferred for this. Was 9/11 an inside job? There’s plenty of evidence offered for that. What about the Global Jewish Conspiracy and the protocols of the Elders of Zion? Lots of evidence there, too. Commies in the US Government plotting its overthrow in the 1950’s? Sen McCarthy had all kinds of proof. He was a Senator, after all.

    So tell me, how do you choose?

  68. #68 Lawrence
    February 13, 2012

    @TBruce – reminds me of the old Illuminati card game, where you played various conspiracy factions against each other….given the number of conspiracy theories out there, you’d think eventually you’d run out of people that weren’t involved in at least one conspiracy (and in the case of the military, some of them might have to be involved in 4 or 5, potential conspiracies, working at cross purposes).

  69. #69 Denice Walter
    February 13, 2012

    Conspiracy theories serve woo-meisters in a few ways:

    First, they *explain* why the brilliant theory( hypothesis) is not accepted by the mainstream and why the revolutionary of science is rejected instead of lauded. *Because* the powers-that-be are motivated by other interests than the truth!

    Secondly, they are diversionary tactics: if you are made aware of how incredibly corrupt and dastardly the ( government, medical establishment, corporations, science, universities, media- choose one or more) is/are you might not look at your informant’s credentials or motives. If your faith in the authorities is undermined, you’ll not listen to experts.

    They also promote an “us vs them” mentality that stokes emotional response rather than careful consideration: if you ramp up fear and get people to think of themselves as victims of powerful vested interests they may assist you in *your* fight against your enemies list( the establishment).

    @ Edith- btw-some of us have been inside the Matrix so long we can do the algebra.

  70. #70 Tanya
    February 13, 2012

    “It isn’t up to the world to prove the Morgellons doesn’t exist, because first it has to be proven to exist at all.

    Again, you are neck-deep in a conspiracy theory that would, as has been stated before, function with perfect operation over the course of decades, made up of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of individuals…”

    Not asking “the world to prove the Morgellons doesn’t exist”, just asking those who haven’t yet seen sufficient evidence to prove it to themselves to be respectful.

    The main argument against my “conspiracy theories” is that it’s too big a conspiracy and would have to be perfectly executed and have lots of people in on it to work.

    First, the plan hasn’t been perfectly executed. There are countless whistleblowers. Just last night I was watching an interview of Dr. David Graham of the FDA where he exposes that the FDA is there to serve the drug companies, not the public. (See “The FDA is there to serve the drug industry, not the public says Dr. David Graham of the FDA”).

    There is a mass awakening currently taking place and the global elite are afraid (See video “Zbigniew Brzezinski, Elite Fear Us!”). Ultimately, their plans will fail, but in the meantime the eugenics movement is in full swing, and innocent people are being murdered. Good people who value human life and freedom do whatever they can to minimize the damage and bring these gross abuses of power to an end as quickly as possible.

    “It would be too hard.” is a pretty weak argument.

    “Sigh. The Matrix was just a movie, you know.”

    So sodium fluoride, which is added to the public water and food supply hasn’t been shown to reduce IQ, isn’t the main ingredient in mood-stabilisers such as prozac, as well as sarin nerve gas, hasn’t been linked to sterility, current Whitehouse science advisor John P. Holdren never advocated mass sterilization through the water supply and no dentists have protested the fact that mass-medication using a toxic waste product (sodim fluoride) ingested orally is justified by the fact that a naturally occuring compound (calcium fluoride) is shown to have some benifit when applied topically. Dental fluorosis doesn’t exist. Oh and there is no link between fluoride and bone cancer, either.

    “I can easily read about them online means that the cover’s been blown for quite some time, doesn’t it?”

    Yeah, and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    I’ll reply to the last 2 posts in a bit.

  71. #71 herr doktor bimler
    February 13, 2012

    So sodium fluoride […] isn’t the main ingredient in mood-stabilisers such as prozac?

    No, Tanya, it isn’t.
    Some of the SSRI family of drugs contain fluorine atoms substituting for hydrogens (no sodium, though), but not all of them do.
    But at least you’ve stopped trying to link fluorine to Nazi concentration camps, so there is some progress.

  72. #72 Fred
    February 13, 2012

    @Tanya,

    You keep complaining that people are being disrespectful to you. I think tolerance can be pushed so far before people (doctors) start pushing back. It seems like you will only be satisfied if people agree with you. Is that really what you want your doctors to do, agree with whatever you say? Don’t you go to them for their professional, trained, experienced opinions?

    At what point do you stop saying that everyone is wrong and you are right?

    What are you teaching your children? So sad…they must live in fear of everything…

  73. #73 Narad
    February 13, 2012

    So sodium fluoride … isn’t the main ingredient in sarin nerve gas

    That would be another no, Tanya.

  74. #74 Narad
    February 13, 2012

    Ah, I botched those ellipses. My inner editor is mortified.

    So sodium fluoride … isn’t the main ingredient in … sarin nerve gas

  75. #75 Edith Prickly
    February 13, 2012

    Yeah, and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    Yeah, you’re right. I’m far too lazy and complacent to make any more effort to persuade you that you’re wasting your time and energy believing mutated John Birch Society paranoid tropes. It’s your life. Keep on filming lint and telling people about the New World Order if it gives you such satisfaction. I’m unlikely to survive the great cull when the eee-veeel (like the fru-its of the dev-eeeel) depopulation program is finally launched, so you’ll get the last laugh anyway.

    @Denice – kudos! I go into bullet-time trances when confronted with algebra. I also get easily distracted by cool leather costumes and butt-kicking antics.

  76. #76 Beamup
    February 13, 2012

    IMX, the distraction factor of a leather costume has less to do with the coolness of the costume and more to do with the wearer of the costume. 😉

  77. #77 Thomas
    February 13, 2012

    Tanya,

    A quiz:

    When the government allows lengthy videos exposing their deepest secrets to appear on Youtube it means:

    1) The government hasn’t figured out the Internet yet, and thus revolutionaries can still use it to expose them
    2) The government is so confident of their victory that they don’t care whether their secrets are exposed, meaning that you’re wasting your time.
    3) The government is just biding their time before capturing all the people foolishly exposing themselves as rebels
    4) The government is paying off people to publicize millions of bogus conspiracy theories so the real conspiracies go unnoticed.
    5) You’re deluded, and no one cares what you post to Youtube as long as you don’t pose a threat to your neighbors.
    6) You’re having fun seeing how big a lie you can convince people that you believe

    Or did I miss an option?

  78. #78 herr doktor bimler
    February 13, 2012

    and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    Let the record show that I am personally in an alcohol-induced stupor.

  79. #79 Terrie
    February 13, 2012

    My stupor was induced by my cat to ensure that I do his bidding. Why do think they’ve developed such a soothing purr? It’s too keep us in perpetual slavery to our feline overlords.

  80. #80 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 13, 2012

    “… I know the majority of them [people who disagree with Tanya] are only like that because they’ve been programmed and drugged from birth so they can’t think for themselves, and to ridicule anyone who still can.”

    Exactly what part of this assumption is “respectful”?

  81. #81 Narad
    February 13, 2012

    Yeah, and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    Tanya, is that or is it not a good-sized TV that serves as a backdrop to your ten-minute video meditation on a piece of environmental detritus stuck to the end of your finger?

  82. #82 Denice Walter
    February 13, 2012

    It’s interesting that those who talk about *thinking for yourself*, not following the status quo, not being beholden to vested interests, disparaging others for being followers; inveighing against the unimpeachable authority of “experts”
    1. all sound alike ( emotional conspiracy-talk, us against the world)
    2. are instructing *their* followers to do exactly that- mimic the master’s thinking, follow the master- who has vested interests.
    3. set themselves up as experts.
    Oh well.

  83. #83 Shirley Smits
    February 13, 2012

    Take a look at the pictures of my lesions etc. on my web site morgellonsthetruth. My sores, symptoms and problems with the medical professionals are identical to Morgellons.It has taken decades to find a doctor who instantly knew what was wrong with me and diagnosed Ehlers-Danlos a ‘rare’ genetic condition that causes a mutation of collagen. Elastosis was found in half of the biopsies undertaken by the CDC. Elastosis is connected to E.D. I have been in contact with a number of Morgellon sufferers who are also hypermobile. Doctors must look for underlying conditions that cause poor wound healing and pruritis. People are unnecessarily suffering with genuine physical illnesses for years on end. I wonder how many dermatologists have degrees in psychiatry to justify labelling patients with a psychiatric condition? The dermatologist flatly refused to do any tests on the sore on my nose a year ago and discharged me. Two hospital consultants have spotted this sore recently and urged my G.P. to refer me to a dermatologist as they are of the opinion that it is a Basal Cell Carcinoma. Show me a better person who could come through all this sane.

  84. #84 dedicated lurker
    February 13, 2012

    My sister and I made up a parody conspiracy theory, that the Cold War was a hoax, and made up a fake organization devoted to it, FCRAP (False Coldwar Revelation Awareness People). If you go visit whale.to, there’s something very similar there. I haven’t seen anyone advance our other parody conspiracy theory, that the town of Deerfield, Massachusetts doesn’t exist, but after some time on the internet I wouldn’t be surprised if it was out there.

  85. #85 Denice Walter
    February 13, 2012

    @ dedicated lurker:
    Believe me, it doesn’t exist, I’ve been there: there’s nothing there.

  86. #86 lilady
    February 13, 2012

    “Take a look at the pictures of my lesions etc. on my web site morgellonsthetruth. My sores, symptoms and problems with the medical professionals are identical to Morgellons.It has taken decades to find a doctor who instantly knew what was wrong with me and diagnosed Ehlers-Danlos a ‘rare’ genetic condition that causes a mutation of collagen. Elastosis was found in half of the biopsies undertaken by the CDC. Elastosis is connected to E.D.”

    Solar elastosis a.k.a. “actinic elastosis” (hyper-pigmented scaly lesions associated with sun exposure) were the only “elastosis-type” lesions reported by the CDC. Actinic elastosis lesions were the most common histopathologic finding (51 % of skin biopsies).

    The CDC report did not report any biopsies where the histopathologic finding was “elastosis perforans serpiginosis”, which is a rare connective tissue disorder and can also be seen in other genetic disorders such as Down Syndrome of Ehlers-Danos Syndrome:

    http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1074280-overview

  87. #87 Tanya
    February 14, 2012

    “The logistics just don’t look plausible to me.”

    Watch Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement to get the basics of who is involved and how it works.

    “A real disease can be discovered, studied, and potentially treated by independent scientists.”

    Well again, Morgellon’s isn’t a disease, it’s a syndrome. It is how the body reacts to the presence of this material which we all have inside of us and the independant scientists who actually have the balls to research Morgellon’s already know a lot about Morgellon’s. They know what it’s made of, how it replicates in the human body and how to slow down that process, to some degree.

    Of course these are not publicly funded studies, nor will the CDC, WHO etc. listen to the independant researchers, whose findings condradict with what these governing bodies want the public to believe about Morgellon’s. For further information on what is now known about Morgellon’s, watch, “Chemtrails and Morgellons – Dark Agenda of Synthetic Biology 2011” on YouTube, with an open mind and heart.

    “the conspirators never actually achieve any of the big goals they’re supposedly after”

    Oh, really? Again, see Endgame, research the New World Order because you’re living in it. Learn about eugenics and soft-kill weapons because you are their victim.

    “there’s one problem I always have with the trope of “think for yourself”: Often, the people who make the demand can’t seem to understand that other people might come to a different conclusion as a result of thinking for themselves.”

    I have that same problem.

    “One big problem with conspiracy theories is which ones do you believe?…how do you choose?”

    How do you choose what to believe and what not to? I look at both sides of the coin, gathering information from a variety of sources, and going with what I feel, on a gut level, to be correct. Not going to make a list of all the conspiracies I believe to be true, and which ones I don’t, or have insufficient information to form an opinion about.

    “If your faith in the authorities is undermined, you’ll not listen to experts.”

    Listening to experts doesn’t mean blindly following all of their advice. The opinions of so-called experts vary greatly and if you have seen countless examples of the corruption and negligence of “experts”, it’s only wise to be wary and think critically when seeking advice.

    “You keep complaining that people are being disrespectful to you. I think tolerance can be pushed so far before people (doctors) start pushing back. It seems like you will only be satisfied if people agree with you. Is that really what you want your doctors to do, agree with whatever you say? Don’t you go to them for their professional, trained, experienced opinions? ”

    I think I’ve made it pretty clear that I am not complaining about the way “doctors” are treating me and that I’m referring to some of the commenters, yourself among them. As stated several times, I have not told any doctors I have Morgellon’s yet. I am not looking for a doctor who will only tell me what they think I want to hear, and no, I would not discuss the New World Order or my belief that Morgellon’s is part of the eugenics agenda with physicians unless I knew they were “awake”, too.

    A “professional, trained, experienced” doctor would never declare that a Morgellon’s sufferer was delusional based on an inconclusive study and without examining the fibers and the patient’s skin for themselves. Some doctors HAVE really looked into Morgellon’s and are convinced these fibers ARE coming from from patient’s skin and that they are NOT textile fibers.

    “What are you teaching your children? So sad…they must live in fear of everything…”

    Yes, how terribly sad. A mother who fights tooth and nail to save herself and her family and to help create a safer, more peaceful world for them. Alert the authorities, lol!

    I teach them to think for themselves and to fear nothing. I often say “Don’t believe me just because I’m your mom, or because you think I’m a nice person.” I am a mother, not a programmer. My job is not to teach them what to think, but to encourage them to think critically while keeping an open mind.

    If I think a piece of information is vital, and age-appropriate, I might share it, but generally I try to shelter my family from the more stressful aspects of life. The kinds of things we are discussing here can be very frightening for children and I am trying to provide as emotionally healthy and stable an environment as possible.

    herr doktor bimler, if you think fluoride is good for you, drink up! Personally, the fluoride issue hasn’t been my top priority and I haven’t double-checked everything I’ve heard about it. Thanks for keeping me on my toes! You are correct that it is not SODIUM fluoride in Prozac or Sarin, although fluoride compounds are key ingredients in both.

    Does it really matter? A drug that has been found to reduce IQ, increase the risk of developing certain cancers and adversely affect fertility in most animal species is being added to much of the world’s water supply, as well as the food supply via canned and prepared food made with fluoridated water. That alone should have people up in arms and the reason it doesn’t is because most people are on fluoride. Under most circumstances, people should be free to decide for themselves whether or not they want to be medicated. Surely you can agree with that.

    Thomas, you missed one. 7) If they always censored certain types of information it would become obvious to slaves like you that they were hiding something. It is much easier to hypnotize you to laugh off such ideas using the media and mass medication than to silence every dissenting voice.

    “Tanya, is that or is it not a good-sized TV that serves as a backdrop to your ten-minute video meditation on a piece of environmental detritus stuck to the end of your finger?”

    I haven’t had cable for several years. I have a DVD player and the TV is used for videos. Really grasping at straws, aren’t we?

    @Shirley “I wonder how many dermatologists have degrees in psychiatry to justify labelling patients with a psychiatric condition?”

    Looking at some of the comments here, it would appear many don’t need to have any medical background whatsoever to make such a diagnosis. I have heard of your blog before, and will check it out.

    Anyways, guys, it’s been fun but I think it’s time to move on. Keep checking my channel, screwedorldorder. The digital kids’ microscope I picked up at the thrift shop for 3 bucks actually works pretty good. Last night I found a particularly active fiber and shot some footage at 10x and 60x magnification. A lot of the movement can’t be explained by airflow or static. You’ll see. Now that that’s set up I hope to be putting up videos on a more regular basis.

    I also am going to be posting an article on my blog very soon about ways to mitigate the symptoms of Morgellon’s, so look for that in the near future.

    Cheers, Tanya 🙂

  88. #88 ebohlman
    February 14, 2012

    Denice #281: It looks like exactly the same phenomenon seen among self-styled adolescent outcasts, where all the “non-conformists” closely follow a small number of pre-defined patterns of non-conformity. “My pigeonhole is more transgressive than yours!” Yeah, but at the end of the day, it’s still a pigeonhole.

  89. #89 Terrie
    February 14, 2012

    Well, if Tanya listens to her “gut” that explains a LOT. The gut is notoriously stupid. I’m willing to bet that she also doesn’t understand that magnification also increases the visibility of movement. Under enough magnification, you can actually see the hour hand on an analog watch move. Cool, but pointless.

  90. #90 Narad
    February 14, 2012

    You are correct that it is not SODIUM fluoride in Prozac or Sarin, although fluoride compounds are key ingredients in both.

    Wrong again. If you want to yammer on about sarin, you should be complaining about phosphorus, which is the key to the inhibition of acetylcholinesterase, which is the whole point.

  91. #91 lilady
    February 14, 2012

    Could Tanya be getting all her (mis)information from YouTube?:

  92. #92 Narad
    February 14, 2012

    I haven’t had cable for several years. I have a DVD player and the TV is used for videos. Really grasping at straws, aren’t we?

    Not really. Let’s review:

    Yeah, and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    What is the mechanism of the “tv-trance-induced stupor”? Now it’s not just the moving pictures in the magic box, but how they’re delivered to the set? What makes you think the mind-control signal isn’t conveyed via the mains? Maybe you’re not as “awake” as you surmise.

  93. #93 Lawrence
    February 14, 2012

    Tanya is perfect example of the people that Matt Tabibi talks about in “The Great Derangement.”

  94. #94 dedicated lurker
    February 14, 2012

    Since I don’t own a TV (in fairness I would if I was able to get all the Red Sox games on it) am I being hypnotized by the TV’s in neighboring apartments? Or the one downstairs the night guard watches?

  95. #95 Fred
    February 14, 2012

    “…the independant scientists who actually have the balls to research Morgellon’s already know a lot about Morgellon’s. They know what it’s made of, how it replicates in the human body and how to slow down that process, to some degree.

    Of course these are not publicly funded studies, nor will the CDC, WHO etc. listen to the independant researchers, whose findings condradict with what these governing bodies want the public to believe about Morgellon’s. “

    Tanya, the scientists that specialize in diagnosing Morgellons are some of the same scientists that have been found guilty of scientific fraud. How can you trust those type of scientists? See my previous comment at #98.

    Morgellons expert Dr. Raphael Stricker’s studies are no longer funded by the NIH because he was found guilty of scientific misconduct. http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/not93-177.html

  96. #96 lilady
    February 14, 2012

    “Since I don’t own a TV (in fairness I would if I was able to get all the Red Sox games on it) am I being hypnotized by the TV’s in neighboring apartments? Or the one downstairs the night guard watches?”

    The more *likely* scenario is that one of the Morgellons fibers that we all have within our bodies (according to Tanya), is an antenna. You just think you are safe from hypnotism…your computer is broadcasting those hypnotic messages to your antenna/Morgellons fiber.

  97. #97 Fred
    February 14, 2012

    The more *likely* scenario is that one of the Morgellons fibers that we all have within our bodies (according to Tanya), is an antenna. You just think you are safe from hypnotism…your computer is broadcasting those hypnotic messages to your antenna/Morgellons fiber.

    According to some LLMDs, it’s not the Morgellons antennas that cause such ravaging syndromes, but rather the EMF’s surrounding all of us. They say the only way to combat the evil EMFs is to purchase their specialty products and cover your bodies with silver-coated clothing, use silver-coated cloth curtains and bed canopies and protect your home with special shielding graphite house paint. (That is if you can afford to own a home after purchasing all of their recommended products.) See the recent Mercola interview with LLMD Dr. Deitrich Klinghardt for more important details.

  98. #98 Fred
    February 14, 2012

    Additionally, if you purchase their special shielding products, use their special Lyme-literate providers and testing labs, then you should know “you’re not only treating Lyme disease but you’re preventing cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease”.

    Tanya, it seems the best way to get rid of Morgellons and Lyme is to follow their every instruction and purchase everything they suggest. After all, the LLMDs are some of the finest Morgellons experts.

  99. #99 Calli Arcale
    February 14, 2012

    lilady:

    You are reminding me of the movie “Withnail & I”, which has a delightfully bizarre scene where the protagonists meet with their drug supplier, Danny, who offers up this piece of advice:

    “I don’t advise a haircut, man. All hairdressers are in the employment of the government. Hair are your aerials. They pick up signals from the cosmos and transmit them directly into the brain. This is the reason bald-headed men are uptight.”

  100. #100 W. Kevin Vicklund
    February 14, 2012

    Watch Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement to get the basics of who is involved and how it works.

    The logistics just don’t look plausible to me.

  101. #101 TBruce
    February 14, 2012

    How do you choose what to believe and what not to? I look at both sides of the coin, gathering information from a variety of sources, and going with what I feel, on a gut level, to be correct.

    Good lord, talk about missing the point! I gave examples of the more ridiculous conspiracy theories out there that have as much supporting evidence as her New World Order wharrgarble. Not only is she profoundly “hard of thinking”, but she appears to have absolutely no sense of humour.

    Well, if Tanya listens to her “gut” that explains a LOT. The gut is notoriously stupid.

    – and we all know what the lower gut is full of.

  102. #103 lilady
    February 14, 2012

    “Well again, Morgellon’s isn’t a disease, it’s a syndrome. It is how the body reacts to the presence of this material which we all have inside of us and the independant scientists who actually have the balls to research Morgellon’s already know a lot about Morgellon’s. They know what it’s made of, how it replicates in the human body and how to slow down that process, to some degree.”

    It seems to me that surgeons would have observed “this material which we all have inside of us”; certainly surgeons who perform delicate micro-surgical procedures would be able retrieve a specimen for analysis.

    Why would a histopathologist, a surgeon or a medical examiner deliberately hide “this material”? According to Tanya they are all part of the “conspiracy” and lack the “balls” to pursue the science of *MSF* (Morgellon-Specific-Fiberology).

  103. #104 herr doktor bimler
    February 14, 2012

    I am still wondering why someone who has no skin lesions or formication — two of the three symptoms used by the Morgellons believers to define the condition — believes that she has it.

    Delusional parasitosis? How can that be? I have it, and I KNOW I don’t have parasites or “body bugs”, nor do I have any lesions/sores.

    The fibre-extrusion phenomenon is all very interesting, but it is muddying the water to group it with the Morgellons condition, and one can only speculate how the people on the Morgellons bulletin-boards react to someone trying to steal their mantle.

  104. #105 Narad
    February 14, 2012

    one can only speculate how the people on the Morgellons bulletin-boards react to someone trying to steal their mantle

    And mispronouncing it in one’s videos, to boot. What I can’t figure out is where the nanotech was coming from in the 17th century.

  105. #106 Sauceress
    February 14, 2012

    #298 Calli Arcale

    They pick up signals from the cosmos and transmit them directly into the brain.

    Hey I too haz seen one of dem Gubmint fibre aerials moving around picking up signals!!111!!!!

  106. #107 herr doktor bimler
    February 14, 2012
  107. #108 herr doktor bimler
    February 14, 2012

    And mispronouncing it
    I had wondered about the apostrophe in “Morgellon’s”, and who is this Morgellon after whom the condition is named.

  108. #109 El Jay
    February 15, 2012

    My curiosity is piqued.

    Tanya #114:

    self-assembling, self-replicating nanotech that is literally genetically modifying the entire human species

    Tanya #144:

    everyone, not just those presenting syptoms, has the nano particles responsible for Morgellon’s in their bloodstream, and that it is altering the structure and composition of ALL of our blood

    What modifications are being made, and what is the purpose of these modifications?

  109. #110 Militant Agnostic
    February 15, 2012

    Tanya – is stopgeoengineering.com your blog?

    Do you believe that Queen Elizabeth II and/or Stephen Harper are shapeshifting liards? This is not a rhetorical question since there is a link to David Icke’s website on stopgeoengineering.com.

    Does anyone have or have a link to a Cole’s Notes version of
    Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement? Or is it just standard Alex Jones incoherent nonsense?

  110. #111 Beamup
    February 15, 2012

    Hey, just a couple days ago I was watching a BBC news report where it documented how the British government has been taken over by alien lizards in suits made of human skin.

    They even had a Doctor on telling all about where the alien lizards were from. Not quite sure of his name, though…

    😉

  111. #112 Calli Arcale
    February 15, 2012

    I didn’t catch his name either, but I think they said the aliens were from Raxicoricofallipatorius. And they weren’t lizards, but were very vulnerable to acetic acid.

  112. #113 Beamup
    February 15, 2012

    Well, they LOOKED like lizards. Close enough, I’d say.

  113. #114 Edith Prickly
    February 15, 2012

    Oh, the Slitheen. They aren’t really lizards, just amoral intergalactic disaster capitalists.

    The real lizard people live somewhere under Wales: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hungry_Earth

  114. #115 TBruce
    February 15, 2012

    Do you believe that Queen Elizabeth II and/or Stephen Harper are shapeshifting li(z)ards?

    Well, Frank magazine routinely referred to the Canadian Federal election as The Running of the Reptiles.

    Coincidence? I think not!

  115. #116 Edith Prickly
    February 15, 2012

    Watch Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement to get the basics of who is involved and how it works.

    Tell you what, Tanya – I’ll watch Endgame if you promise to read all of the article I’ve linked below, The Paranoid Style in American Politics. I know it’s from 1964, but a lot of it should sound familiar…

    http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/conspiracy_theory/the_paranoid_mentality/the_paranoid_style.html

  116. #117 Terrie
    February 15, 2012

    Interesting tidbit. I was trying to remove glitter from my hair (totally unrelated long story), when a strand of hair snapped and the end embedded itself in the skin of my finger.

  117. #118 Hinterlander
    February 15, 2012

    Terrie – hairdressers complain of this too. The embedded hairs can cause nasty infections.

  118. #119 Tanya
    February 15, 2012

    Hey guys. Pulling those other videos because the one I just made is more to the point, and some of the stuff I talked about before I’m not sure how I feel about sharing yet. I thank you guys because I’ve been wanting to start a vlog on Morgellons for a while now but I’m a major camera-phobe and have been putting it off. You motivated me to overcome those fears and I appreciate it, even if I don’t appreciate the tone of many of the comments here. I hope you will one day learn to approach things you fear or don’t understand with a more open mind and heart.

    My new video , which can be found on my YouTube channel, screwedworldorder, is called “MorgVlog #1: PLEASE! Show Some Compassion Toward Morgellons Sufferer’s!” This one’s only 10 minutes (I had notes!). Please check it out.

  119. #120 christina
    February 17, 2012

    Explain please. My whole family has morgellons including my new 3 month old son.my 2 yr old daughter .they have weird scratches that appear overnight. And fibers cominf out of their skin.my husband has a scrtch in the middle of his back and just got his first lesion the ones that are teardrop shaped and grow a crusty film.that is about 2 inches from the scratch. I have lesions everywhere I’m sure the family caught it from me cause I am the worst. So now how can you say a whole family is delusional.why didn’t kaiser do any studies on smaller children or babies that don’t think of things like fibers all they know is iit itches. So cdc says my 3 month old and 2 yr old and 2 grown adults are dilusional…hmmm guess they aren’t the brightest bullbs in the box then.instead of paying their 13 yrs or older kaiser lab rats in calli why don’t they come to dallas and research on my family. Cause then their would be proof that it is their fault for something and they don’t want to be sued or just scared once everyone finds out this is real whatever u want to call it they won’t know what to do because they waisted 600 mil on nothiing instead of finding a real cure.open your eyes its out there and since there is no cure who knows who’s family is next.

  120. #121 Sauceress
    February 17, 2012

    instead of paying their 13 yrs or older kaiser lab rats in calli why don’t they come to dallas and research on my family.

    Out of curiosity Christina, do you believe there is a conspiracy or cover up re Morgellons ?

    Perhaps you could contact the Dermatology Department at the University University of Rochester School of Medicine? I’m sure they would be interested to hear from you. Perhaps they could refer you on to someone in your area for tests.

    What about detailing your case and presenting it in writing to Dianne Feinstein? It’s quite possible she would be able to advise you as to contacts re an investigation. Just a few suggestions of the top of my head.

  121. #122 TBruce
    February 17, 2012

    christina:

    Before jumping to conclusions, you should have your family evaluated for scabies. It can spread through a family, cause intense itching, and can be difficult to diagnose if it’s not considered in the differential diagnosis. Scratching can be done while the sufferer is asleep, which could explain lesions “spontaneously” appearing overnight.

  122. #123 Fred
    February 17, 2012

    This is from last years Morgellons blog entry, which Tanya is still posting comments on.

    Tanya asked,

    What about Victoria, of the DailyMail article, who devotes so much of her time to helping other Morgellons sufferers get better? I have never seen her speak of conspiracies, yet she is also subject to ongoing verbal abuse and harassment over the internet.

    This is one of many videos Victoria has posted on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ebzAVGzO-A&feature=endscreen&NR=1

    Victoria states @8:18 “I think Morgellons is a bit more than a skin condition. I think it is a bit of a chemical..bioterrorist chemical weapon”. She does not use the word “conspiracy”, but she does seem to think it is a chemical weapon.

    Victoria makes the following statements across her videos. She states that she self-diagnosed herself by researching Morgellons on the Internet. At times she refers to the fibers as biofilms, explaining that biofilm surrounds everything. It is on the carpets, in her house, the furniture, anything that is a textile. She states that biofilm does not like Vaseline being put on the skin, nor does it like alcohol, salt, or hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide stings when put on her skin, but it is a good test, she says. If you have Morgellons, peroxide stings because it draws out the fibers bringing them to the surface and it creates a white “thing” on the skin. It hurts. If you do not have Morgellons, then hydrogen peroxide will not sting and it will not create a white “thing” on the skin.

    Victoria mentions that she is surrounded by supportive family and friends that believe her. Clearly, based on the above paragraph, she is drawing incorrect conclusions. (I will stop calling them delusions for the time being). Such support can be detrimental when it reinforces the patients incorrect conclusions. Her support system is either ignorant as to the effects of hydrogen peroxide, salt and other chemicals, or they are simply humoring her in a misguided attempt to give her reassurance and comfort. Tanya, which do you prefer, bull sh** or the straight facts?

    Do you see how Victoria is making incorrect conclusions, mixing facts with fiction? She seems to be taking bits and pieces of information from the Internet, some good and some bad, and blending them into her own version of reality. Many people have sensitive skin that stings when alcohol or salt is poured on it. Hydrogen peroxide causes skin to turn white (maybe someone else here will explain to you exactly why that is), but it does not mean that anyone has fibers or biofilms coming out of their body nor is it a definitive test for any disease. Peroxide causes my fingertips to turn a bit white, but I do not share your condition.

    Tanya, many people here have explained to you early on in a very straight-forward, supportive, educational fashion exactly how the conclusions you are making are incorrect. All anyone can do is try and educate you. Personally, I think they have done a damn good job of it. I have learned quite a bit here myself. You took the conversation to another level when you started antagonizing people.

  123. #124 Militant Agnostic
    February 17, 2012

    On this or on one of the Emily threads someone mentioned the absence of contrails/chemtrails during the immediate post 9/11 period* and the effect on temperature. This led me riff on Robert Anton Wilson (Illuminatus Trilogy) and wonder whether history is driven not by warring secret societies, but by warring conspiracy theories. In this scenario, the 9/11 attacks were of the chemtrail CTers who sought to ground all aviation and thereby prevent the spraying of mind control chemicals. They hoped that this interruption would allow the sheeple to awaken and realize the nefarious plans of the NWO.

    *My father was fly fishing in the Northwest Territories at the time and they realized that something serious had happened long before they were informed by the fishing lodge owner, because they noticed the disappearance of contrails from the sky. The numerous overseas flights that would have passed over the Canadian Arctic were diverted to the first place they could land.

  124. #125 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    Hey Christina, welcome to the love room! I am sorry to hear what you and your family are going through. In the next installment of my vlog I will be discussing ways I have found to mitigate symptoms. I’m very busy over the next week, so that probably won’t be up for at least a week and a half, but I will post some of the methods I will be covering on here later today. Oh, and it was only 600 thousand they spent!

  125. #126 Narad
    February 17, 2012

    In the next installment of my vlog I will be discussing ways I have found to mitigate symptoms.

    Tanya, you have basically stated that you don’t have Morgellons in the first place:

    I’m a fellow Morgy, although fortunately I don’t get the skin symptoms like you do. Lots of fibers and a bit of itching when I’m due for a bath, but my main issues are with fatigue and chronic pain.

    You’re a bit itchy when you’re due for a bath. Well, knock me over with a feather. And you’ve got endlessly distracting lint. Nonetheless, your “vlog” will address the mitigation of “weird scratches that appear overnight” and “teardrop-shaped” lesions that “grow a crusty film”?

    You’re a Morgellons hanger-on who has appointed herself some sort of Holy Mother to boot. As noted above, Christina may be dealing with an actual contagious condition. Instead, however, one gets Tanya appropriating the situation to complain about Tanya’s treatment in “the love room.”

  126. #127 Edith Prickly
    February 17, 2012

    Tanya, I’m pretty sure the one thing Christina doesn’t need is advice from a conspiracy nut and self-aggrandizing drama queen who isn’t actually suffering from any physical symptoms.

  127. #128 Fred
    February 17, 2012

    Tanya, I hope you can see how seriously dangerous it could be for you to promote your false ideas onto vulnerable patients like Christina and her family.

    You might not have much respect for doctors, but I hope at least you will read the comment @321 by TBruce. A lot of things could cause Christina’s symptoms. It is wrong for you to flood the Internet (YouTube) and forums like this with a bunch of bogus delusional allegations and lure in other patients into your emotional nightmare. Other people could have legitimate medical conditions that need addressing, yet mistakenly ally with your delusions and never receive proper care.

  128. #129 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    Edith PRICKly…

    “isn’t actually suffering from any physical symptoms.”…

    Hmmm,

    Daily headaches/migraines, circulatory problems, excessive perspiration, joint and muscle pain, joints constantly popping and cracking, debilitating fatigue, insomnia, shedding thousands of fibers daily, digestive issues, persistent “acne” and scalp that was always raw, scabby and itchy prior to moving to an area with untreated water, coughing up brown, streaky goop, blurred vision, fluid coming out of ears (again, frequent ear infections until I moved). So itchy that I would sometimes scratch arms and legs until they bled before moving and making dietary and lifestyle changes. Oh and Edith, I usually bathe for about an hour, twice/day and so “due for a bath” generally means I haven’t bathed in 12 hours. Generally when I start perspiring I do feel like there are bugs crawling all over my head. I also haven’t been able to tolerate most fabrics for many years, as they make me itch like crazy.

    When I am out of marijuana (yes, I’m a medical pothead, hahaha), which pretty much knocks me out cold at night, and I am trying to sleep, I notice the itching a lot more, and I know a lot of Morgy’s who say the itching is just background noise until they go to bed.

    Nope, no physical symptoms whatsoever!

    I am not in severe distress over itching because I do a LOT to keep that under control and this may be why I don’t have lesions (genetics may also play a role). Ocassionally after adding certain things to the bath I do get what look like tiny cat scratches, although that is rare.

    Yes, I’m sure what Christina really needs is to be made fun of and patronized by a bunch of science dweebs engaged in an intellectual pissing contest! How about letting her decide what she needs, or doesn’t?

    I’ll be back on in a bit with that info, Christina.

  129. #130 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    Put a sock in it, Fred!

  130. #131 Scottynuke
    February 17, 2012

    I do believe the best use of Fred’s sock would be to cover up Tanya’s webcam so we’re all spared any further vlogorreah…

  131. #132 Narad
    February 17, 2012

    Put a sock in it, Fred!

    Tanya, you are now resorting to foot-stamping.

  132. #133 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    “Tanya, you are now resorting to foot-stamping.”

    Oh, noes!

  133. #134 Sauceress
    February 17, 2012

    Tanya

    Yes, I’m sure what Christina really needs is to be made fun of and patronized by a bunch of science dweebs engaged in an intellectual pissing contest!

    Who is making fun of Christina? Who is patronising her? Projecting your own paranoia and persecution complex much there Tanya?

    Edith Prickly #326

    the one thing Christina doesn’t need is advice from a conspiracy nut and self-aggrandizing drama queen

    Drama queen indeed!

  134. #135 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    Hi, Christina

    Not going to have enough time tonight to get this all down, so whatever I miss, I’ll post tomorrow.

    I’ve known I had Morgellons for about a year and a half. Around the time I was starting to suspect I had Morgellons I was in the middle of relocating to a cleaner, less polluted environment for health reasons. I had been symptomatic for over 15 years and knew I needed to breathe clean air, drink and bathe in clean water and live in a place where I could grow my own food. On a fixed income, living in the city, I was able to afford to rent a 496 sq. ft. apartment with no yard. In a more rural setting, where rent is much cheaper, I am now able to live in a cozy-yet-spacious 2 bedroom house, with a good-sized yard and garden. The great thing about where I’m at now, well, one of the great things, is that my back gate opens to a beautiful saltwater lagoon, which is a godsend when you’ve got Morgellons.

    Prior to noticing the fibers, which I noticed in my home before I actually realized they were coming from me, I was already spending a lot of time in hot baths for relief of chronic pain and itchy skin. At the time, I had to use medicated shampoo daily or my scalp felt like it was on fire, and I was always scratching my arms and legs. I suspect the years of regular long, hot baths may have been what prevented me from getting lesions.

    Anyways, I noticed that my scalp issues seemed to vanish magically, in about 2 weeks, when I moved and started bathing in and drinking untreated water. So my first tip, if it is feasible, is to bathe in untreated water (ie, no chemicals added, or chemicals filtered out). I do recommend occasionally bathing or swimming in chlorinated water, as I do notice WAY more fibers when I am visiting my mom’s and drinking and bathing in chlorinated water. I normally visit once/month and try to take as many baths as I can while I’m there because of the amount of material it draws out.

    I think one of the main tricks to managing Morgellons is keeping the fibers flowing out so that they cannot build up in and under the skin.

    Here is a list of things that either draw (external) or drive (internal) out the fibers. Some of this you most likely know already, but I will list everything anyways, even the basic stuff, in approximate order of importance. Of course we are all different, so what is effective for me may not be as effective for you. I find that what is effective for me one day, may do little good the next, therefore, it is a good idea to have a lot of weapons in your arsenal and keep switching them up so the Morgellons doesn’t have a chance to build up a resistance, which it appears to do.

    External:

    Salt (sea, epsom and table salt are all fine, though I prefer sea salt) and baking soda. Add generous amounts (experiment with varying quantities, I use anywhere from a half to 2 cups of each, sometimes more) to your bath water, use them together or on their own. You can also add a bit of water &/or soap to either and make an exfoliating scrub. Often when I do this I purge extra-long fibers. The longest I have seen was about 7 inches, but some people get foot-long ones!

    Dish soap. Use it like bubble bath. Add salt or baking soda for added effectiveness. The 2 brands I have seen the most dramatic results with are Great Value (WalMart brand) Ultra lemon dish liquid and VIP Ruby Red Grapefruit Dish Liquid. Rinse well afterward, as it can leave an irritating film.

    Ayurvedic products. Auromere makes amazing poducts for the skin that smell awesome, too. My favourites are their Tulsi-Neem and Sandalwood-Turmeric soaps, as well as their mudbath. Make a paste and use as an all-over body mask for optimum results. I also really like Chandrika soap. Ayurvedic soaps are generally quite astringent, so your skin will look and feel a lot smoother when you use them.

    Tea Tree Oil Shampoo. I have tried a few brands with similar results. Very soothing to the scalp and for added benefit, you can add a few drops of tea tree oil to the shampoo, as well as to your bath water. Another essential oil I have had excellent results with is wild oil of oregano, although I would suggest starting with no more than 10 drops, as too much too soon can sting. You can apply it directly to the skin as well, but be careful, as again, it can be painful, especially when applied to the areas where you are seeing the most fibers. Generally after a couple uses, your skin adjusts and you can use more.

    I try to bathe twice/day in the winter months when swimming isn’t an option. I get best results when I keep the temperature high and stay in as long as possible. Of course you want to be careful about giving your children hot baths, or using additives that could irritate their eyes. Dish soap baths probably aren’t suitable for little ones. You should also consult with a physician if you have heart problems and are planning on taking hot baths or use a hot tub.

    Sun. Spend as much time, with as much skin exposed in direct sunlight, without burning, of course. I used to have tiny bumps all over my arms (keratosis pilaris?) since I was a child and cleared it up completely a few years ago one summer by just spending as much time as possible in the sun. I also know someone with psoriasis who get significant relief from sun exposure. Not only does sunlight improve the condition of your skin (so long as you avoid excessive exposure – use common sense), but it also helps lift the depression associated with Morgellons. I always feel much healthier, happier and more energetic in the spring and summer when there is plenty of sunshine to enjoy!

    Morgellons fibers love to hide out in hair, so short hair is best. I chopped all mine off last summer (was about 1/2 way down my back), and feel much cleaner, less itchy and it’s just a whole lot easier to take care of.

    What I am hearing is that the ULTIMATE treatment for Morgellons is the far-infrared sauna, which I can’t currently afford, but am planning to buy ASAP. I have witnessed a dramatic reduction in skin lesions in Morgellons patients who have access to an infrared sauna.

    Tomorrow I will discuss some things you can do to mitigate the symptoms from the inside, including dietary changes and the use of supplements, as well as how to manage household fibers and take care of your emotional well-being.

    Cheers,
    Tanya

  135. #136 Narad
    February 18, 2012

    “Tanya, you are now resorting to foot-stamping.”

    Oh, noes!

    *plonk*

  136. #137 Sauceress
    February 18, 2012

    Don’t you have your own blog Tanya?

  137. #138 Fred
    February 18, 2012

    Tanya, Another explanation as to how some of your symptoms “magically” reduced after you relocated from the stressful, cramped city apartment to what sounds like a lakeside (pondside) country home is due to the reduction in emotional stress. Less stress oftentimes leads to less physical and emotional symptoms.

    I purge extra-long fibers. The longest I have seen was about 7 inches, but some people get foot-long ones!

    I am curious, do people here think that Tanya really “sees” these fibers she purges, as in a hallucination? I see that her videos do appear to show common lint and everyday fibers.

    Do you think she is fabricating these beliefs so as to get attention out of loneliness and isolation, maybe a convoluted prank being taken too far, or does she really believe everything she is writing?

  138. #139 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    “Do you think she is fabricating these beliefs so as to get attention out of loneliness and isolation, maybe a convoluted prank being taken too far, or does she really believe everything she is writing?”

    Do you think it is fun to be spoken of this way when you are going through the most challenging time in your life and only trying to help others in the same situation and let them know you’re not alone.

    I think not being believed is one of the themes in my life. Learning to overcome the opinions of ignorant people who, out of fear, or lack of understanding, choose to believe I’m lying, rather than open their minds and see that maybe there is truth to what I’m saying. Did you check out that photo I referred to in my post (#262) on the 2011 Morgellons article.

    I remember when I decided to press charges against that psychopath, who, for 3 and a half years, raped me, beat me and force me to watch him kill and torture 18 or more animals. Nobody believed me then. A lot of people thought I was “doing it for attention”, which was an incredibly cruel burden to dump on a teenage girl who was already dealing with major post-traumatic stress. Then they hauled him off to a maximum security prison for high-risk sex offenders and suddenly all the doubters were silenced. I recall during the sentencing, in reference to my testimony, the judge referred to me as “honest, almost to a fault.”

    Fred, and everyone else who is bashing me here, someday, you’re going to look back at the way you treated me here, and if you have any conscience whatsoever, are going to HATE yourself for how foolish you are being right now. I pity you.

  139. #140 Agashem
    February 18, 2012

    Tanya, so far as I know, we in Canada do not have a maximum security prison for high-risk sex offenders. If you are calling Kingston Penitentiary that, you are using hyperbole. If there is some other institution in Canada that meets your specific description, please let us know. What this exaggeration does is limit your credibility. Try to be as honest as you can and don’t inflate things to make them sound worse, it does nothing to help us believe all that you have to say.

  140. #141 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    I was under the impression that it was a maximum security prison. Perhaps I was told that to make me feel safer, as at the time I feared for my life. I just looked it up and it was actually a MEDIUM security facility for sex offenders, called Stave Lake Correctional Centre, and is no longer operating. I apologize for the mix-up.

  141. #142 Marry Me, Mindy
    February 18, 2012

    “I think not being believed is one of the themes in my life. ”

    Yeah, why do you think that is?

    There’s an old saying, “The common denominator of all your failed relationships is you.”

    If you are finding that no one believes you, maybe you should ask the question of why am _I_ so unbelievable? Instead of assuming that everyone else is ignorant?

  142. #143 Denice Walter
    February 18, 2012

    @ Fred:

    I’ll speak generally: I do believe that people can be of * two minds* about something. We’ve all had *mixed feelings* wherein we may simultaneously like and dislike a person we know well: our opinion may vascillate. What I’ve found ( by surveying woo-meisters) is that although they may truly be exaggerating their claims and thus, selling a bill of goods to their marks they also _believe_ in their own fabrication and follow their own advice: perhaps after years of telling others you convince yourself as well.

    When people work with the seriously mentally ill- who may talk about their delusions- they are instructed to not just go along with the un-realistic belief because there may still be a part of the affected person who doubts and clings to a more realistic idea: speak to that; reinforce that.

    On woo-meisters and alt med gurus:
    When they sell their ideas and products they are simultaneously selling themselves- they have created a persona as an alternative to SBM consensus and fancy themselves brave new revolutionaries of science or suchlike. Needless to say, this is food for hungry, rapidly engourging egos. If you think about it, it takes a gigantic ego to critique the accumulated work of myriad scientists that took place over decades *especially* if you are not really well-versed in science yourself. It’s easier to decry the Cult of the Expert when you aren’t an expert. It’s a way to level a playing field that they believe is unfair, reflecting at some level their own awareness of their own lack of knowledge- people who feel good about themselves have no need of creating pedestals on which to stand.

  143. #144 Edith Prickly
    February 18, 2012

    So itchy that I would sometimes scratch arms and legs until they bled before moving and making dietary and lifestyle changes. Oh and Edith, I usually bathe for about an hour, twice/day

    No bloody wonder your skin is so itchy. Bathing twice a day for an hour is most likely drying the hell out of your skin and making the itching worse. And seriously, dish soap? If you’re perspiring heavily, a fast, lukewarm shower using a mild, unscented body wash (no bar soap, they are very drying) should be sufficient, and follow it up with an unscented moisturizing lotion (Eucerin or Aveeno are both good.) And for god’s sake, no essential oils! Oregano oil is highly irritating, and so is tea tree oil.

    Nope, no physical symptoms whatsoever!

    I was simply referring to your comment that you have no skin lesions. All your other symptoms could have a multitude of causes, including mental distress.

    Do you think it is fun to be spoken of this way when you are going through the most challenging time in your life and only trying to help others in the same situation and let them know you’re not alone.

    Nobody forced you to start posting here, and you keep coming back to argue with everyone and trumpet your own martyrdom whenever people challenge you. Trying to draw other vulnerable people into this web of misinformation you’ve spun around yourself is not going to help them.

    I stand by my diagnosis of self-aggrandizing drama queen.

  144. #145 Agashem
    February 18, 2012

    It was, actually, a minimum security facility.

  145. #146 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    When I Googled “stave lake sex offender” the fifth result says it was a “medium security institution”. I am going by what I was told when I was a teenager, and apparently those who understood how afraid I was of retaliation felt the need to exaggerate to give me a sense of security during a very difficult time. Does hounding a survivor of multiple rapes and assault about her traumatic experiences, experiences so horrific that over 15 years later I still experience sensory flashbacks, make you feel good?

    Contact me through my YouTube channel and I will arrange to have the court transcripts mailed to you. Many of the counsellors/therapists I have seen over the years have said my case was the worst case of sexual abuse they had ever encountered.

    Following the conviction, according to my mom (a lot of my memories from that time are blocked), I had lawyers who were present throughout the trial approaching me asking to shake my hand. I nearly bled to death during childbirth 3 years after the abuse happened, and my doctor felt that this was most likely due to internal injuries from the sexual abuse.

    Again, feel good?

  146. #147 Denice Walter
    February 18, 2012

    @ Fred:

    -I have a comment in moderation for you-
    but briefly in response: I believe that the answer to your question may not involve an *either/or*.

    I think that people can simultaneously believe things that are not logically consistent – obviously when someone has been in emotional turmoil for a long time, this might be exacerbated. I usually write about woo-meisters’ selling products and ideas to their customers but probably also believing in their own ‘wisdom’ at least somewhat: it is self-ego-enhancement as well as self-enrichment. It is thus, multi-purpose manoeuvring and like other emotionally-driven phenomena not *always* entirely under the person’s control. I would be harsher on someone who bases their livlihood on altmed than I would be on a paying customer.

  147. #148 Edith Prickly
    February 18, 2012

    I have a longer response to Tanya in moderation, but there’s one more thing to add:

    Edith PRICKly…

    Oh, I see what you did there. Tell me again who’s being juvenile?

  148. #149 Denice Walter
    February 18, 2012

    @ Tanya:

    Find a new _female_ counsellor: focus on finding ways to deal with your suffering. Talking to an understanding perosn can help you to feel better.

  149. #150 Agashem
    February 18, 2012

    I have no idea why you think I am abusing you. I am holding you to standards that I demand of myself, namely, to be as truthful as I can be without hyperbole. From what I have read, Stave lake was a setting where sex offenders who AGREED went to get psychotherapy. It was not a warehouse for sex offenders. Still and all, if you were told something else when you were 15 then that is what you were told. I am not arguing with you. But why would you want me to read the transcripts of your trial? I have never said you weren’t abused. In fact, I think many of us here have felt that this abuse may explain a lot more than even you realize. You are obviously feeling hurt and are lashing out. It has been pointed out to you that we are skeptics on this blog and we prefer facts to anecdotes and logic to hysteria. If this bothers you then as has been stated before, maybe you need to move on.

  150. #151 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    “why am _I_ so unbelievable?”

    Maybe it’s because I have been through some really horrendous sh** and people don’t WANT to believe it. It is less scary to believe I am making things up for attention.

    I am a talented artist, writer and my photography doesn’t suck, either. I could get lots of attention, if that’s what I was seeking. I am open about my past so that others who are being or have been abused know they aren’t alone and that there is no shame in being a survivor of sexual abuse.

  151. #152 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    “I have no idea why you think I am abusing you.”

    I don’t. I just think you’re being insensitive.

    “From what I have read, Stave lake was a setting where sex offenders who AGREED went to get psychotherapy.”

    I remember the sentencing itself. I remember them cuffing him and watching him be carried of in an armoured van. I also remember writing a letter to the judge when he tried to get out early for good behaviour.

    Voluntary psychotherapy, from my experiences, doesn’t involve being handcuffed, and you don’t need to appeal to a judge to get out of voluntary psychotherapy early for good behaviour. Yes, Stave Lake did offer some voluntary programs, but part of the reason he didn’t get off early for good behaviour is because the therapists who were working with him there felt he was not co-operating with them and showed no remorse for his actions.

    “Edith PRICKly…
    Oh, I see what you did there. Tell me again who’s being juvenile?”

    Again, just responding in kind, honeybunch.

  152. #153 Agashem
    February 18, 2012

    Sorry, again, you are mistaken. From what is online these men at Stave lake came from other institutions and were sent there if they wanted psychotherapy. You of all of us should know there is no point in trying to force psychoanalysis on anyone who doesn’t want it.
    As for being insensitive, it is exceedingly difficult to convey tone in a comment. You are reading a lot more into this than is my intention. I am looking for honest answers, not judging you.

  153. #154 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    I’m sorry, but you are wrong. Why would it be called a “Correctional Center”? Why would an un-remorseful, un-co-operative psychopath OPT to spend 2 years there? If you google the term “Stave Lake Prison”, about the 4th result should be a link to a book called “Shaking It Rough: A Prison Memoir” where the author refers to his experience at what he calls “Stave Lake PRISON CAMP”. He refers to himself as a PRISONER.

    I may have blocked some memories, but I do vividly recall him being cuffed following sentencing (his girlfriend, who was present during the sentencing began wailing loudly when the verdict was read!), watching him be taken away in an armoured vehicle, and that victims services encouraged me to write a letter to the judge when he attempted to get out early for good behaviour.

    This is a particularly vivid memory for me because I was in the hostpital, having just given birth, when I was informed that he was trying to get out, and I wrote the letter the day after I got home.

    Anyways, this IS very stressful for me to talk about, so I’m gonna just stick to the topic, Morgellons, from here on out.

  154. #155 Fred
    February 18, 2012

    Tanya, You should be proud of yourself for speaking out as you did and working with Victim Assistance and other authorities to press charges against this person. That was very brave and your actions and evidence presented may have spared others similar abuse from this person.

    I think you can see how important it is for people to be provided with all the facts and necessary evidence so they can make sound decisions. The people here are trying to speak up and help provide others, such as you and I, with important information so we can make other important life-altering decisions.

    Hopefully, one day you will gain a different perspective on things and find some peace.

  155. #156 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Fred, I feel you are being sincere, and I appreciate that 🙂 I will write a proper response tomorrow, as well as a follow-up to my advice to Christina. I am a little intoxicated right now, and not able to communicate very coherently, lol.

  156. #157 Agashem
    February 19, 2012

    Tanya, this is where I got the information regarding Stave Lake:
    PDF]
    Sex offender treatment : an evaluation of the Stave Lake …
    summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/7721/b37359678.pdf
    As you can see, it is a PDF dissertation regarding the Sex offender treatment program at that institution (which is still opened as far as I can tell although it may house women now). This dissertation was written in 1996. Andreas Schroeder’s book you mention was written in 1976 when Stave lake was a prison logging camp. Obviously its function has changed over the years. Point is, if this prisoner you were speaking of went there for being a sex offender, it appears he would have gone voluntarily (according the dissertation). It strikes me as unlikely that he would have gone to a logging camp (which would have been minimum security) if he were as horrible as you describe.
    Some things add up and some things don’t.

  157. #158 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    I got the impression the facility had been sold, however, you may be correct about it still being open. On a current Government of Canada webpage on pet-facilitated therapy in correctional institutions it states “The Stave Lake Correctional Centre in Maple Ridge has a net pen rearing site which is the sole supplier of rainbow trout for many small lakes. This PRISON also has an animal shelter which cares for and releases wildlife such as eagles, owls, and deer.”

    Again, while Stave Lake may have hosted voluntary rehabilitation programs, it was, at the time, which was around the same time that dissertation was written, first and foremost, a prison. Also see the definition of “correctional centre”.

  158. #159 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Agashem, I have a reply stuck in moderation referencing a current official Government of Canada webpage about pet facilitated therapy that refers to the Stave Lake Correctional Centre as a prison. Also see the definition of the term “correctional centre”. Looks like you may be right about it still being operational, though. I got the impression it had been sold.

    The centre probably does host voluntary programs, such as the one you described, but it is, first and foremost, a prison.

  159. #160 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Hmm, according to an article posted just 5 days ago on Pacific Free Press, entitled “Prison Privateers Welcomed To BC”, I was correct about the centre having been closed, too. Owned, baby!

  160. #161 Agashem
    February 19, 2012

    It is slated to be closed. Good for you.
    Now, let’s get back to more interesting topics, shall we?

  161. #162 Fred
    February 19, 2012

    According to various news articles, Stave Lake Correctional Centre in Mission, BC appears to have closed around May 2002 due to budget cuts. The property was sold to the Zajac Foundation to open a ranch for disadvantaged children.

    Correctional Service Canada has a list of the current institutions online. Stave Lake is no longer listed, but Mission Institution is listed, and their address happens to be on Stave Lake Road. It is a medium-security facility for male offenders, which opened in 1977.

    I have looked through the summit.sfu pdf you listed in @356, but I did not the entire 74 pages. On page 27 of the pdf, it mentions the offering of individual therapy treatments for offenders who are in denial of their offense, in crisis, experiencing major clinical disorders, or deviant, etc.

    Given the above description, I think it is possible that an offender as Tanya describes could have served time at the minimum security Stave Lake Centre to attempt rehabilitation. Even if they went there willingly, prisoner transport laws could require that they be handcuffed.

  162. #163 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    “It is slated to be closed. Good for you.
    Now, let’s get back to more interesting topics, shall we?”

    No, it is closed and it was a prison, and you are the one who seemed most interested in dis-proving those facts. Lol, when proven wrong, they can never just say, “Oops, my mistake, guess I was wrong.” Such inflated egos here.

    Fred, I still intend to write you a proper response to #354, as well as the rest of my advice for Christina when I have more time. Oh, and he definitely didn’t go willingly. He was convicted of multiple (can’t remember exact number) counts of sexual and physical assault and sentenced to 2 years in prison, plus probation and an order not to have contact with anyone under 13 (this was because during the case I testified that he told me he molested 2 young relatives). He also was not allowed to live in the same town as his family when released from prison because the judge felt they had enabled his behaviour.

  163. #164 Edith Prickly
    February 19, 2012

    FWIW Fred, I do believe that Tanya was severely abused, even if some of the minor details don’t quite jell. And I think it’s admirable that she wants to help others in the same situation.

    However, that still doesn’t make her beliefs about Morgellon’s and the super sekrit genetic engineering conspiracy true, and spreading false ideas around is not going to help any traumatized person recover. Here’s a little recap from one of her early posts to get the discussion back on track:

    The reason the mainstream medical establishment is presenting Morgellon’s as a mental illness is because the truth is it is MANMADE self-assembling, self-replicating nanotech that is literally genetically modifying the entire human species. See the work of Clifford Carnicom, for starters.The nano particles responsible for Morgellon’s are so pervasive in the environment that it would be impossible not to have this in your system. This is the big coverup and this is why they are trying to make us look crazy. You people who are not sick and are not seeing fibers are only “well” because your bodies are not rejecting this material, which has been found to be made up of cellulose, polyethylene and silicone among other things.

    As for your question @337 Fred, I think Tanya does wholeheartedly believe all this is true, and she’s woven it into a defensive armour around herself to avoid dealing with the pain from her abuse head-on. It’s an understandable reaction, but it’s not going to help her recover in the long term. Her beliefs are also probably keeping her from forming positive relationships with people who would support her without encouraging her unhealthy obsessions.

  164. #165 Fred
    February 19, 2012

    Edith, I completely agree.

    I think people in her position are extremely sensitive to criticism, and almost crave people to believe in them. It seems people did not believe her in the past and she was very hurt by that, understandably. Perhaps if someone would have believed her allegations of abuse earlier, and intervened, then she would not have been so exploited.

    I think she has dug in deep now with the Morgellons and conspiracy theories. One part of the problem as I see it is that we are not the same people that abused her in the past, but our repeated questioning of her and asking for evidence still comes across in that same manner and is very frustrating to her.

  165. #166 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    “she’s woven it into a defensive armour around herself to avoid dealing with the pain from her abuse head-on”

    You’re right, I never spent 10+ years in therapy dealing with the pain from my abuse head on, just as I have no physical symptoms. Edith, you really need to become a professional psychic. You’d make a killing!

  166. #167 Narad
    February 19, 2012

    Her beliefs are also probably keeping her from forming positive relationships with people who would support her without encouraging her unhealthy obsessions.

    This is writ large. Tanya appears to be on the horns of the dilemma of desiring both the safety of isolation (island living cemented with cannabis) and also ongoing validation, with the former meaning the latter can only be achieved through random engagement. When this predictably doesn’t pan out all that reliably, the indignation kicks in.

  167. #168 Fred
    February 19, 2012

    Tanya, Speaking as one who has been there, Edith is correct. You just can’t recognize it yet. One day you will, hopefully. I do understand how angry it can make you feel to hear her and others say that though.

  168. #169 Denice Walter
    February 19, 2012

    Hello, Tanya:
    I have counselled people who have dealt with difficult situations including abuse, trauma and serious illness ( now- education and career):
    if you are still experiencing thoughts you can’t control about the abuse or the abuser, you should find a female counsellor with whom you can talk. You only have one life, why waste more time suffering? Someone might be able to help you. Obviously the fibres cause you difficulty and memories of abuse cause pain as well: perhaps if you tackled the latter the other obstacles might not be as in-surmountable. Speaking out in court was a very brave thing to do. You stand your ground here against the hard -ss sceptics: you’re not a weak person altho’ you may be burdened with problems from others’ wrongdoings.

    I also have enjoyed doing art and writing for a very long time: wouldn’t it be great if you could develop your talents with a peaceful mind? I hope you can. Best wishes.

  169. #170 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Fred, I understand you are trying to help, and I appreciate it, however, you are basing your conclusions on inconclusive evidence. The CDC was not able to prove Morgellons doesn’t exist, only that they couldn’t find an infectious cause, and delusional infestation was only discussed as a possibility. I think it is irresponsible to label someone delusional when you are not qualified to do so, nor have you met with them and examined the material for yourself.

    This isn’t about being believed. Many, many people believe me. The people closest to me, whose opinions I value the most, believe me. One of them initially had doubts until I was able to show them the fibers coming out of my skin, now they are one of my strongest supporters.

    I am not angry, at you, Edith or anyone. Just a bit irritated that you are so quick to jump to conclusions and cannot admit the possibility you are mistaken.

    Don’t you find it a bit odd that 15 years after a traumatic event, someone who has no history of delusions or psychosis, and whose health, both physical and mental, is improving steadily, would suddenly develop delusions? I know some of you would like to connect the abuse with my supposed delusions, but it *is* possible for people who have mental health issues to have physical health issues that have nothing to do with a their psychological state.

    Denice, I rarely think about the abuse. I have some sensory flashbacks when exposed to certain triggers, but that is down 90+% from 5 years ago and continues to improve. For years I got them 100+ times/ day and could barely function. I now don’t get them at all most days.

    “You only have one life, why waste more time suffering?”

    That is exactly why I have taken so many steps to improve my health. Again, my mental health has improved significantly over the past 5 or 6 years. I put in several years of counselling, with both male and female counsellors, and feel like I’ve gotten everything I can out of it, at least for now. When I was in counselling, I was always rehashing the past which caused me to think about the abuse a lot more and just made me more depressed and anxious. Since taking an extended break from counselling, and making an effort to stay focussed on the present, I feel much more at peace.

    I’m not “there yet” (is anyone, really?), but I’m much better than I used to be, and continue to get better each day.

    For the most part, I’ve stuck around here because ongoing dialogue piques people’s interest and hopefully will get people investigating the issues I’ve brought up. I am also here to encourage critical thought, as so many of you have made assumptions about me, and about Morgellons in general, based on a study that failed to prove anything. Normally I post one comment and move on, but this is an interesting conversation and is teaching me a great deal about what makes people tick.

  170. #171 Edith Prickly
    February 19, 2012

    Edith, you really need to become a professional psychic. You’d make a killing!

    Actually, I think you’d be much better at that than me. You could do lint ball readings for other Morgellon’s “patients.”

  171. #172 adelady
    February 19, 2012

    tanya, I have no useful thing I can say to you about PTSD or Morgellon’s. But there are a few issues about symptom management that I have a lot of experience with.

    persistent “acne” and scalp that was always raw, scabby and itchy prior to moving to an area with untreated water

    So itchy that I would sometimes scratch arms and legs until they bled before moving and making dietary and lifestyle changes.

    I am trying to sleep, I notice the itching a lot more

    Ban all soap from your skin, your clothes, your linen – the whole house in fact for at least 6 weeks.

    Non-soap, non-irritating products are available for body wash, shampoo, clothes washing, dishwashing, bathroom cleaning. Don’t under any circumstances think that adding in herbal or ‘soothing’ ingredients to conventional products will help.

    If you can’t find suitable products – I don’t know what your local shopping is like – then get pure sorbolene to wash your skin until you do. When I say pure sorbolene, I mean exactly that. No added vitamins or essential oils or anything at all.

    Equally important is what you use to clean your bath, your clothes and your bedlinen. If you aren’t satisfied with the ‘non-irritant’ claims of the products available to you, buy a couple of boxes of sodium bicarbonate. (Or bicarb soda or whatever it’s called in your neck of the woods.) Use it neat to clean the bath. For washing clothes, you can use it neat, or you can reduce your usual washing powder quantity to a quarter (yes a quarter) of the set amount and add in a couple of tablespoons of bicarb.

    Gotta go now. I’ll give a couple of links to helpful skin, non-irritant (non-commercial) info later.

  172. #173 Fred
    February 20, 2012

    I am also here to encourage critical thought, …

    Tanya, Would you please humor me a bit and do me a huge favor? You correctly noted that I am being sincere and trying to help. Please do the following simple tasks for me.

    1. Using your fingers, pluck a very tiny piece of carpeting from your home and film it up close in the same way as you film the Morgellons fibers. You can take the sample from a bathroom rug or other throw rug if you have hardwood floors.

    2. Gently pull some of the fuzz off one of your knit sweaters and film it up close as well.

    3. If you have access to a clothes dryer, pull some of the lint from the lint trap and film it.

    Please upload those three videos to your YouTube page and post a message here to notify me when it is done.

    Thank you, I appreciate it!

  173. #174 Agashem
    February 20, 2012

    As for needing to admit to being wrong, I am more than willing to do so. However, information on the internet regarding Stave Lake is a little confusing. It does appear to have closed in 2001-2002, however, currently you can find it listed on Corrections Canada page under pet therapy. So perhaps something is still going on there.
    As for Tanya’s original claim that the sex offender who violated her went to a maximum security prison for sex offenders in Canada, I stand by my original statement that no such facility exists in Canada. Paul Bernardo, our most (currently) notorious sex offender is housed in Kingston Penitentiary.

  174. #175 Tanya
    February 20, 2012

    Adelady, thanks for your suggestions. I have never heard of sorbolene. I am off to the city today and will look for it. The products I have listed draw out the fibers, so they do really keep the itching at bay, everything else I use is, for the most part, fragrance free (I have major sensitivities to perfume, one sniff of most fragrances and I get an instant headache and cough) and hypoallergenic. I might try a week without soap, etc. but I do find the stuff I use helps the itching.

    Fred, that sounds like a good idea. Might help convert a few sceptics. Oddly, I have found that if you wet the cotton fibers from a q-tip, they move similarly to a Morgellons fiber, but the fibers I’m seeing, for the most part do not look like cotton. They are plastic-looking and are sometimes iridescent. They don’t seem to match with my clothing, towel or other textile fibers, although if I don’r air-dry, I naturally do get some towel fibers stuck to my skin.

    Such an experiment would show the difference between Morgellons an other fibers, so I’ll give it a try. I’m taking a week-long breather from anything stressful or negative, so I’ll do it after that.

    Agashem, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. As I say, I was pretty young and pretty freaked out following the trial and I would imagine I was told it was a maximum-security prison to reassure me. I certainly hope the animal-facilitated therapy program was not operating when he was there as he was an animal torturer and killer and even experimented with bestiality.

  175. #176 Denice Walter
    February 20, 2012

    Tanya, could you please consider the following as one *possible* scenario: you suffered the consequences of abuse and experienced frequent intrusions of thought and emotion concerning the crimes that you endured- somehow- psychologically, unconsciously, beyond your control, your mind *itself* ( as self- protection) had you to focus on the _fibres_ rather than re-playing the crimes. I am imaginig a time line that is something like : many thoughts about abuse/ mix of thoughts about abuse and fibres/ most thoughts about fibres.

    I am only putting this idea forth as a possibility: the fibres enabled you to shift your focus away from the criminal abuse. I have no idea if this is true or not. I truly hope *whatever* causes your suffering will be demolished and that you will improve so you can have a better life.

  176. #177 Tanya
    February 29, 2012

    Denice, I’ve absolutely considered the scenario you suggest. As I explained before, I was very sceptical when I discovered the fibers and would prefer to be delusional than to be infested with manmade, self-replicating nanotech. If I could just take a pill and make this nightmare end, I would. Unfortunately, such a pill would either have to kill me or blind me.

    Denice, could you please consider the following as one *possible* scenario: I suffered horrific abuse which drove me nearly to my breaking point. When I saw that my health was declining fast, I took responsibility. I did my own research, revamped my lifestyle and my outlook, and my health began to improve. My experiences made me strong and gave me discernment, so when attacked again, this time in a more covert and sophisticated way, I was able to recognize that I was being attacked, that the intent of this manifestation called Morgellons was malicious.

    Being a decent person, and armed with the strength aquired through difficult yet necessary life experiences, I stood up and fought, to the best of my ability, and will continue to do so until the planet is a safe and healthy for everyone and those guilty of these crimes are brought to justice.

    I know this is all very hard to swallow, and I’m not asking anyone to believe me. All I ask is that you take the time to investigate this with an open mind, because I believe if you do, you will reach the conclusion that we are all affected by Morgellons, whether we are exhibiting symptoms or not, that whether the research drawing these conclusions was sponsored by the “right people”, the findings are valid, that this is manmade, that we all have it and it is destroying our health and is truly the ultimate violation against all life on earth.

    Knowing might not save you from it, but it allows you to take steps toward protecting yourself and your families, or at least lessening the impact. The more aware the population is, the more minds we have tackling this problem, the faster we can identify who is responsible, the motives behind this program, and ways to mitigate symptoms or even “cure” Morgellons.

    This is, in part, why I’ve stuck around so long. Scientists read this blog and if I can inspire just one or two brilliant minds to take a serious look at this problem, it’s worth it.

    Anyways, I’m not finished writing my recommendations for Christina (or whomever else can make use of them). I’ll post what I’ve got so far for dietary advice, here, and when I finish I will post the entire thing on my blog (click on my name). I also plan to start filming comparisons of Morgellons with other fibers for Fred. Might do a little series of comparison videos (ie, Morgellons VS dog hair, Morgellons VS fiber from sweater, Morgellons VS fiber from curtain). Thanks for the great idea! I will post those videos on my YouTube channel, screwedworldorder

    ….

    Diet/Internal

    Several years before I had even heard of Morgellons, I made one change in my diet that I feel is a big part of why I have not manifested skin symptoms as severely as some. It has certainly resulted in a HUGE decrease in the severity of my muscle & joint pain, as well as the headaches. It has also completely eliminated my cravings for MSG-laden junk food. That step was the removal of MSG, as well as other potential sources of free glutamate (hydrolysed proteins, modified starches, artificial and natural flavour, seasonings, spices, etc., etc.).

    Basically, I began to eat only foods whose ingredients I could recognize and would use myself in my own cooking. I soon began to understand that if the “natural flavour” in a product were, say, onion powder, or vanilla extract, the label would reflect that. When you see “natural flavour” (or some of the other “ingredients” I listed, above), there is something there they don’t want you to see. Pepsico (Frito-Lay, Quaker, Tropicana, Lipton, Naked Juice, Sobe, Aunt Jemima, Aquafina, etc.) uses aborted human fetal tissue and rat DNA in the manufacture of their flavourings. Babies and rodents are natural, right?

    I am not someone who does well with drastic changes overnight. I am still gradually making changes to my diet. Aside from eliminating unrecognizeable and unnecessary ingredients from my diet, I also strive to eat more whole, unprocessed foods, and more organics, as well as more raw food. Affordability has been an issue in the switch to organic foods which is why, last year, I started learning how to grow my own food, which is practically free.

    Currently my kitchen table is covered with egg cartons and trays full of sprouting veggies. Nasturtium, dill, kale, pak-choi, lettuce, parsely, mustard greens, fennel, 3 varieties of basil, garlic chives, green onion, sage and coriander. In a few months we will have more produce than we can deal with and will probably have to sell some. I plan to do a lot of juicing, too. I’m still enjoying some salad greens and herbs that survived the mild winter.

    I’m also learning about edible wild plants and weeds. Turns out the dandelion, plantain, wood sorrel, self-heal, peppergrass, chicory, lemonbalm, burdock and clovers growing wild in my yard are edible, too, and I’ve started incorporating them into my diet as much as possible.

    The gardening and foraging also provide exercise and sun-exposure, which are so important for those with Morgellons. I also think it is wise to spend as much time outside as possible, as we are constantly shedding the fibers and so the more we can shed outside, the easier it is to keep household fuzz under control.

    ….To be continued….

  177. #178 danser
    April 22, 2012

    Morgellons Disease Reversal

    April 21, 2012 Leave a comment (Edit)
    How long have you had Morgellons symptoms?

    The answer really does not matter. What matters is reversing them. We have found a way to eliminate your Morgellons symptoms in about 4 weeks using a natural mineral. What might you expect?
    This is what you should expect;

    week one;

    Your energy begins to return
    Your brain-fog begins to evaporate
    You can see better
    You can think clearer
    You see “debris’ leaving your body

    week two;

    If you have lesions, they begin to harden around the edges
    The biting and scratching begins to subside
    Your movement in your scalp starts to go away
    You notice less fibers
    The black specs disappear

    week three;

    Your lesions harden even further, some begin to fall off entirely
    The biting and scratching is almost gone
    Say good-bye to your depression
    Your mood improves

    week four;

    Your lesions have mostly fallen off and do not return
    Your clarity of thought astounds you
    Nearly all of your Morgellons symptoms are gone
    You life is your own again
    You feel like ‘you’ again

    Is this a pipe-dream, or is it real?

    We have been helping Morgellons sufferers for over 5 years and those who stayed with the program and followed the instructions are mostly symptom-free now. Once you obtain this level of relief, you seriously reduce how much NutraSilver you take to a minimum of about 15 drops, twice per day.

    That’s it! You are done! Now it is time to return to your normal life without being accused by the medical profession of being delusional, without the feeling of hopelessness and without the debilitating brain-fog that stole your life.
    Congratulations! Your Morgellons nightmare is over!

    NutraSilver, in FDA-certified independent lab test has shown to kill every pathogens we have tested both quickly and safely. WE are so sure that NutraSilver will reverse your Morgellons symptoms, we guarantee it for 60 days from the date we shipped it to you. No questions asked. Why doesn’t your Doctor of Pharmacist offer such a guarantee? You know the answer and so do we. End your Morgellons suffering now. There is no need to suffer even one more day.

  178. #179 danser
    April 22, 2012

    Morgellons Disease Reversal

    How long have you had Morgellons symptoms?

    The answer really does not matter. What matters is reversing them. We have found a way to eliminate your Morgellons symptoms in about 4 weeks using a natural mineral. What might you expect?
    This is what you should expect;

    week one;

    Your energy begins to return
    Your brain-fog begins to evaporate
    You can see better
    You can think clearer
    You see “debris’ leaving your body

    week two;

    If you have lesions, they begin to harden around the edges
    The biting and scratching begins to subside
    Your movement in your scalp starts to go away
    You notice less fibers
    The black specs disappear

    week three;

    Your lesions harden even further, some begin to fall off entirely
    The biting and scratching is almost gone
    Say good-bye to your depression
    Your mood improves

    week four;

    Your lesions have mostly fallen off and do not return
    Your clarity of thought astounds you
    Nearly all of your Morgellons symptoms are gone
    You life is your own again
    You feel like ‘you’ again

    Is this a pipe-dream, or is it real?

    We have been helping Morgellons sufferers for over 5 years and those who stayed with the program and followed the instructions are mostly symptom-free now. Once you obtain this level of relief, you seriously reduce how much NutraSilver you take to a minimum of about 15 drops, twice per day.

    That’s it! You are done! Now it is time to return to your normal life without being accused by the medical profession of being delusional, without the feeling of hopelessness and without the debilitating brain-fog that stole your life.
    Congratulations! Your Morgellons nightmare is over!

    NutraSilver, in FDA-certified independent lab test has shown to kill every pathogens we have tested both quickly and safely. WE are so sure that NutraSilver will reverse your Morgellons symptoms, we guarantee it for 60 days from the date we shipped it to you. No questions asked. Why doesn’t your Doctor of Pharmacist offer such a guarantee? You know the answer and so do we. End your Morgellons suffering now. There is no need to suffer even one more day.

  179. #180 lilady
    April 22, 2012

    danser’s comment above is an advertisement for a colloidal silver compound that you ingest:

    “NutraSilver® is made using two distinct, but very natural ingredients: pure silver from a mine and distilled water. These two ingredients, when combined properly, can create a powerful germ fighter. NutraSilver’s colloidal silver is pure, organic and safe for use by the entire family, when instructions are followed.”

  180. #181 Kelly M Bray
    April 22, 2012

    SPAM Alert

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