Respectful Insolence

It’s been nearly a year since I last discussed a most unusual malady. Part of the reason is that the opportunity to discuss it hasn’t occurred recently; usually I need some spark or incident to “inspire” me to write about something, and there just hasn’t been any Morgellons news that’s caught my eye since then. However, another part of the reason, I must admit, is that writing about this particular condition almost always brings sufferers out of the woodwork, castigating me the way antivaccinationists like to castigate me for challenging the scientific basis of their preferred pseudoscience. I catch enough hostility from the antivaccine contingent. Before I’m reading to leap into a fray that’s likely to bring more hostility–who knows? I might even be graced by a visit from a certain particularly deluded and persistent advocate of this condition–my way from an entirely different contingent of woo-meisters. On the other hand, sometimes I need a change of pace, a new area to look at the application of science-based medicine to health and disease.

I’m referring, of course, to Morgellons disease. To recap (for those of you who are familiar with the condition) or to provide some background (for those of you who are not), people suffering (or claiming to suffer) from this condition complain of an intense itching, and the condition is characterized by a number of primary symptoms. These include:

  • Sponanteously Erupting Skin lesions
  • Sensation of crawling, biting on and under the skin
  • Appearance of blue, black or red fibers and granules beneath and/or extruding from the skin
  • Fatigue
  • Short-term memory loss
  • Attention Deficit, Bipolar or Obsessive-Compulsive disorders
  • Impaired thought processing (brain fog)
  • Depression and feelings of isolation


Of course, as I pointed out before, the fibers and granules found in the skin in Morgellons sufferers are always consistent with clothing or scratching. More precisely, no Morgellons advocate has ever demonstrated them to be anything mysterious or even anything not consistent with fibers from clothing or various materials the sufferer comes into contact with. It’s not for nothing that most objective investigations of Morgellons disease conclude that it is some form of delusional parasitosis. Before I move on, let me get one thing straight. Just because I don’t think that Morgellons is due to parasites doesn’t mean that I think that sufferers from Morgellons disease are crazy or “making it up” somehow. In fact, they are suffering. We don’t know why they are suffering, but we can say that it isn’t due to parasites and that the fibers that they on or in their skin are consistent with textiles, such as clothing, and superficial skin injuries due to scratching. Yet there is a large contingent of Morgellons quacks out there who are only too happy to indulge this delusional parasitosis and provide all manner of dubious remedies designed to relieve the symptoms of Morgellons sufferers while also relieving them of their cash.

When last I examined a study looking at Morgellons disease, it was a study that did something very, very obvious. Basically, the investigators looked at skin biopsies and patient-provided specimens. Not surprisingly, most commonly, investigators found that they were skin flakes or serum crust, hair, or textile fibers. There were a couple of insects found among the specimens. Consistent with the literature about Morgellons, there was nothing consistent with a diagnosis of parasite infestation. This time around, there appears to be a study that provides even more evidence that Morgellons disease is not a distinct clinical entity. Basically, it’s a new study that was commissioned by Senator Dianne Feinstein to look into the cause of Morgellons disease. The results were just reported:

ATLANTA (AP) — Imagine having the feeling that tiny bugs are crawling on your body, that you have oozing sores and mysterious fibers sprouting from your skin. Sound like a horror movie? Well, at one point several years ago, government doctors were getting up to 20 calls a day from people saying they had such symptoms.

Many of these people were in California and one of that state’s U.S. senators, Dianne Feinstein, asked for a scientific study. In 2008, federal health officials began to study people saying they were affected by this freakish condition called Morgellons.
The study cost nearly $600,000. Its long-awaited results, released Wednesday, conclude that Morgellons exists only in the patients’ minds.

“We found no infectious cause,” said Mark Eberhard, a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention official who was part of the 15-member study team.

This was a much bigger study, and it was published in PLoS One yesterday. Naturally, I couldn’t resist going to the source, as is my wont. So I did. The study comes from investigators from the CDC, Kaiser Permanente, the Joint Pathology Center, the Department of Veterans Affairs, and the Department of Dermatology at the University of Rochester School of Medicine and is entitled Clinical, Epidemiologic, Histopathologic and Molecular Features of an Unexplained Dermopathy.

This particular study consisted of three major components: a cross-sectional survey, clinical evaluations, and histopathological studies. Eligibility for the study was very broad. Basically, all that was necessary was that the subject be a member of Kaiser Permanente, thirteen years or older, and English-speaking. Cases of Morgellons were defined as any member of Kaiser Permanente who reported during the study period (July 1, 2006 and June 30, 2008) reporting “fibers, threads, specks, dots, fuzzballs, granules or other forms of solid material coming out of his/her skin” AND one or both of the following:

  • a skin lesion such as a rash, wound, ulcer, or nodule; OR
  • a disturbing skin symptom such as pruritus, feeling that something is crawling on top of or under the skin, or stinging, biting, or a pins and needles sensation.

From cases who were identified by predetermined criteria of possibly having Morgellons disease, complete medical histories were taken, and clinical examinations performed. Skin samples were taken by 4 mm punch biopsy, and a dermatoscope used to photograph each biopsy site before and after the procedure. These biopsy samples were subjected to–shall we say?–extensive testing. In addition to standard histopathological analysis, skin biopsy specimens were subjected to scanning electron microscopy. Fibers and other samples were also subjected to infrared spectroscopy (IR) to identify molecular characteristics. Blood samples were taken and serological tests performed, and subjects underwent neuropsychiatric testing. A cross-sectional survey was alos taken using an Internet-based tool.

Perhaps the most surprising thing about this study (to me, at least) was how uncommmon Morgellons disease was. Out of nearly three million Kaiser enrollees screened, investigators only found 104 cases, for a prevalence of 3.65 per 100,000. Given the seeming “prevalence” of the disease on the Internet, one would think that it was far more common than that. It is true that this sample, as large as it is, might not be representative. It is, after all, made up of Kaiser Permanente members, which means that they all at least have a form of health insurance. They also all live in California, specifically in the Bay Area. Even so, it is rather revealing that patients complaining of classic Morgellons symptoms are actually fairly uncommon.

It’s also not at all surprising that another major finding of this paper is that, consistent with previous studies, there was no evidence of any consistent set of abnormalities in the skin of subjects complaining of Morgellons symptoms:

Case-patients had a wide range of skin lesions, suggesting that the condition cannot be explained by a single, well-described inflammatory, infectious, or neoplastic disorder. A substantial proportion (40%) of biopsied lesions had histopathologic features compatible with the sequelae of chronic rubbing or excoriation, without evidence of an underlying etiology. The most common histopathologic abnormality was solar elastosis, a degeneration of dermal connective tissue and increased amounts of elastic tissue due to prolonged sun exposure. However, this finding might be expected among a population residing in California and does not necessarily suggest a causal relationship. Histopathologic examination of skin areas with normal appearance were essentially normal, arguing against systemic or subclinical skin abnormalities. Among the differential diagnoses for the skin presentations detected are neurotic excoriations [16], atopic dermatitis, brachioradial pruritis [17], [18], and arthropod bites.

Previous reports of this condition have described the material emerging from the skin being like fibers, hairs or filaments [1], [19], but we found a more heterogeneous description of materials emerging from the skin, with many case-patients describing materials other than fibers including specks, dots, granules, or worms. We found no difference in the sociodemographic, clinical, or histopathologic characteristics of case-patients who did and did not report fibers. The fibers and materials collected from case-patients’ skin were largely consistent with skin fragments or materials such as cotton and were either entrapped in purulent crust or scabs, suggesting the materials were from environmental sources (e.g., clothing) or possibly artifacts introduced at the time of specimen collection and processing.

There was also no evidence of an environmental cause. Also, not surprisingly, subjects complaining of Morgellons symptoms also had a evidence of co-existing neuropsychiatric morbidity. According to this study, nearly 60% of Morgellons cases had evidence of a cognitive impairment that could not be explained by deficits in IQ, while 63% had clinically significant somatic complaints. Depression was more prevalent than in the general population. Despite these findings, the subjects with Morgellons were more or less normal on most of the tests they were subjected to.

Predictably, although this study is still more evidence that there is not clearly definable physical cause of Morgellons disease, the advocates are not backing down. For example, Randy Wymore, an Oklahoma State University pharmacologist who is one of the most famous and reputable mainstream scientist who thinks there might be something to Morgellons disease is already making excuses. Unfortunately, it’s probable that no amount of evidence will convince such people, at least until we find treatments that are effective in alleviating their symptoms. Maybe not even then.

Comments

  1. #1 Tony Mach
    January 26, 2012

    I have just one question: Could the origin of this delusion lie in a problem with the nerve endings in the skin?

    I fully acknowledge that there is nothing visibly wrong with the skin, that there is no unusual inflammation or the like. But could it just be that the nerves in the skin send the brain signals that the brain interprets as “Parasites!”? And could one classify that as a delusion?

  2. #2 Tony Mach
    January 26, 2012

    Because this just reminds me so much of CFS and Fibromyalgia, where all kinds of explanations were put forward for the increased levels of fatigue and pain in the patients, from “false illness believes” to “central sensitization”. After all, in both CFS and Fibromyalgia there was “no clearly definable physical cause” as well.

    Well, Kathleen and Alan Light took a look and did gene expression studies, trying to measure the was going on in the body. And what did they find? The level of pain and fatigue in CFS patients is higher than in MS patients. Ups.

    (I find it ironic that Alan Light challenged some long held believes how fatigue and pain are sensed by looking into a disease like CFS that was believed to be psychosomatic by many… http://youtu.be/8yi_mCidr9I?t=18m20s )

  3. #3 Tony Mach
    January 26, 2012

    And Stephen Straus too found evidence that CFS is a psychiatric problem. Or should I say “evidence”. Small sample size combined with confirmation bias can wreck havoc on any conclusion in a psychiatric study I guess.

    So color me seriously not impressed that psychiatrists find a psychiatric cause.

  4. #4 adelady
    January 26, 2012

    The combination of unpleasant skin sensations with fatigue, depression and brain fog gives me cause to pause.

    Has anyone looked at these patients’ feet or done a neurological workup. Sounds awfully like some of the consequences of Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease (or something in that family). Seeing as CMT is the commonest genetic neurological disorder – not that that makes it common – and creepy crawly itchy sensations occur quite frequently, it’d be worth checking out. If they also have high arched feet with weak ankles and/or weak hands, it’d be the top candidate for further checking.

  5. #5 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    January 26, 2012

    Tony Mach – if someone thinks they are infested by parasites and there are no actual parasites, wouldn’t that classify as a delusion? Particularly if they’ve been examined, told that they have no parasites, and they still believe it to be true?
    Not to say, of course, they don’t have the sensations consistent with something crawling over their bodies which.

  6. #6 daijiyobu
    January 26, 2012

    “Get them off me man, get them off me!!!”

    -r.c.

  7. #7 palindrom
    January 26, 2012

    This is very interesting stuff!

    Suppose Tony M’s hypothesis is right, and there’s some unexplained nerve problem causing the sensation of creepy-crawlies all over.

    When your nervous system tells you something is happening in your body, there’s an overwhelming tendency to believe it really is, because 99.99 percent of the time, your nervous system doesn’t lie.

    If you have a phantom limb, you can plainly confirm that it’s no longer there; in that case, you’d be deluded if you claimed it was still attached.

    But this is much more subtle. You scratch, and desperately look for anything that might be causing this misery. Little dots appear on your skin — that must be it! For us science types, it’s very persuasive when scanning electron microscopy or whatnot tells you it’s nothing out of the ordinary, but a person who has only a vague idea of how these things work may not find this evidence very compelling. Their nervous system is telling them, plain as day, that there are creepy-crawlies under their skin. What do those propeller-heads know?

    I’d be depressed, too, if I felt like I had bugs all over me. Eeew!

    So, it seems to me that the study showed that Morgellon’s is not due to an actual parisite or other agent they can identify. But that doesn’t seem to me to imply that it is necessarily psychosomatic.

  8. #8 daedalus2u
    January 26, 2012

    I still think it is low nitric oxide with the skin as the target organ.

    http://daedalus2u.blogspot.com/2008/02/morgellons-disease-hallucinatory.html

    Nitric oxide is what limits the “gain” in mast cell degranulation. As you lower NO levels, the “gain” goes up and mast cells degranulate easier. Increase the gain enough and they degranulate spontaneously, or even in propagating waves.

  9. #9 Dangerous Bacon
    January 26, 2012

    Oh, brother. Now that the big CDC study’s results have been released, the Morgellons “commmunity” will be itching to attack the big government coverup (there have been rumblings about this for quite awhile).

    The fibers are really going to fly.

    Wonder whether the Morgies (as they call themselves) are already burning up the phone lines to Dianne Feinstein, Hillary Clinton and other politicians who pushed for this big waste of taxpayer dollars, demanding we sink more money into further studies.

    Sadly, all this distraction prevents people who are genuinely suffering with these symptoms from getting the help they need.

  10. #10 Phoenix Woman
    January 26, 2012

    Adelady: Wow, I knew a girl in college who had what we called “Barbie doll feet”. She could wear high heels with ease, though it was hard to find tennies that fit her; other than that, the condition didn’t seem to be harmful. Now you’re making me wonder how she’s doing, thirty-odd years later.

  11. #11 Daniel J. Andrews
    January 26, 2012

    Why would the government try to cover this up? As a conspiracy theory it is somewhat lacking in proper motivation, unlike, say, 9/11 inside job or moon landing faked.

  12. #12 nastylittlehorse
    January 26, 2012

    @Daniel J Andrews – 11

    Because it’s caused by vaccines/chemtrails/fluoride/CDC experiments or other conspiracy theory of your choice.

    Duh!

  13. #13 Dangerous Bacon
    January 26, 2012

    C’mon Daniel- if it’s not vaccines, chemtrails, flouride or the CDC, it’s nanotechnology, GMOs or secret government weapons research run amuck! The Internet knows and tells all

    http://afteramerica.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/morgellons-victims-across-the-us-and-europe-part-1/

    Better keep quiet though or you’ll be “absorbed” like the rest.

  14. #14 Beamup
    January 26, 2012

    I think this study is an excellent example of how much harm the “Morgellon’s” concept does to the people who are suffering from these symptoms. $600K spent, without shedding any light on what the problem actually IS – just putting more nails in the coffin of what we already knew it is NOT.

    Wouldn’t it have been better for the sufferers if that money had been spent on studies which actually had a realistic chance of producing some real answers? Instead, limited resources get diverted to studies which are inevitably, and predictably, going to produce negative results.

  15. #15 HeatherD70
    January 26, 2012

    I never knew this had a name until now! I have been suffering for 4 years. First occurred in Spring 2008, and I thought it was related to a move to a different city (ie: allergies or something in the house air ducts). Well, we have been back in our original city for a year now and I still have symptoms. Things that make it worse for me include caffeine and wearing nylon clothing. Things that make it better…??? For me it is a tiny itchy spot, about the size of a pinprick, on my skin. Sometimes there is a timy bump or a tiny patch of dry skin and sometimes not. The itch usually feel like a tiny insect bite. Maybe it is tiny pores getting plugged and itching? Lots of sores on my leg from scratching, can’t wear shorts because they look so awful. I sometimes get them on my forearms but mostly my legs.

  16. #16 Denice Walter
    January 26, 2012

    Dangerous Bacon’s link cites Hildegarde Staninger- oh my lord- *Quelle* piece of work! And she has a website and sells products. She may top my list of crazy people who actually manage to earn money in some fashion.

  17. #17 Improbable Joe
    January 26, 2012

    The itching isn’t necessarily the delusion, the insistence that the itching comes from parasites along with the conspiracy nonsense is what makes it a delusion.

    My wife was suffering from something similar: insane itching and burning and “creepy-crawly” sensations. She’d scratch holes in her arms in her sleep, and wake up to find them full of fibers and what-not. Because my wife isn’t prone to delusion or conspiracy theories, and because she understands that “neurological” doesn’t mean “you’re crazy”, she looked into it and found a nerve-ending thingy that had similar symptoms to what she was experiencing. Her doctor agreed, and a generic pill taken once a day has eliminated the problem entirely.

    Of course, if you’re convinced you’ve got bugs under your skin, you’re probably going to be unwilling to take a “nerve pill” aren’t you?

  18. #18 Mu
    January 26, 2012

    Not that I would disagree, but do you really mean to say you think they’re crazy in the paragraph below the listing of symptoms?
    And I’m not surprised by the low incident numbers, 3.65 per 100,000 still gives you about 10,000 potential internet advocates in the US alone. That’s a lot of noise makers.

  19. #19 Matthew Cline
    January 26, 2012

    Basically, all that was necessary was that the subject be a member of Kaiser Permanente, thirteen years or older, and English-speaking. Cases of Morgellons were defined as any member of Kaiser Permanente who reported during the study period (July 1, 2006 and June 30, 2008) reporting “fibers, threads, specks, dots, fuzzballs, granules or other forms of solid material coming out of his/her skin” AND one or both of the following:

    Why didn’t they just enroll anyone who claims to be suffering from Morgellons? It would have been simpler, and would give people less excuse to claim that the subjects weren’t real Morgellons sufferers.

  20. #20 GregH
    January 26, 2012

    adelady, you’re right that CMT might sometimes sound like a form of delusional parasitosis. I have CMT and really bad allergies, any yes, there are plenty of itching and odd sensations involved. But I learned at an early age to not scratch unless there was actually a mosquito bite or hives, and to check carefully to see if there really was an insect walking on my arm, as various strange sensations might suggest. Much of the time, there wasn’t. It’s pretty amazing how vivid the sensation of little legs touching my arm can be, and how it moves to another spot as soon as I scratch it. The solution appears to be to ignore as much of it as possible, and try and avoid tick habitat. ;-)

    On the other hand, nerve testing and genetic markers can identify most forms of CMT fairly easily. And at least knowing about CMT and its sequelae is some kind of explanation.

    Sometimes I amuse myself by imagining that I have Morgellon’s, and tell my wife “I’ve got DELUSIONAL delusional parasitosis!”. She doesn’t think it’s funny.

  21. #21 HP
    January 26, 2012

    It saddens me that feel like I have to comment on this whenever Morgellon’s comes up . . .

    Delusional parasitosis is a real disease. Psychosomatic symptoms are real symptoms, and mental illness is real illness. No one’s accusing Morgellon’s sufferers of being “crazy” or “making it up.”

    Delusional parasitosis is a real diagnosis of a real illness that real people really get, and there are effective treatments available.

    It’s sad that these people have to go without effective treatment just so some insensitive clods can hold on to their outdated prejudices about mental illness.

  22. #22 MI Dawn
    January 26, 2012

    @Mu: Either Orac changed the sentence, or I think you misread it.

    He says:

    Just because I don’t think that Morgellons is due to parasites doesn’t mean that I think that sufferers from Morgellons disease are crazy or “making it up” somehow.

    So yes, these people are suffering. He agrees with that. Where he disagrees is with what is perceived by the sufferers as the CAUSE of the problem.

  23. #23 Roadstergal
    January 26, 2012

    The most common histopathologic abnormality was solar elastosis, a degeneration of dermal connective tissue and increased amounts of elastic tissue due to prolonged sun exposure. However, this finding might be expected among a population residing in California

    And they did this in the Bay Area? *looks up at the endless fog and clouds*

    I think the word ‘delusion’ puts people off. We don’t want to think we’re ‘delusional,’ or that there’s anything wrong with our brains. Which is silly; the nervous system can be compromised just as much as the skin can. There’s no reason that a disorder of the mind should be any more stigmatizing than an infection, IMO.

  24. #24 Beamup
    January 26, 2012

    @ Heather:

    Whatever’s causing your itching, it is NOT “Morgellon’s.” As discussed, that simply isn’t anything real.

  25. #25 Terrie
    January 26, 2012

    The pictures I’ve seen of the Morgellons “lesions” look almost exactly like what I currently have covering my right upper arm. Only I know exactly what caused mine. I have stress-induced dermatitis, secondary to OCD and GAD. It’s a pain in the rear and sets up a lovely cycle of itching leading to scratching leading to more itching. But that’s not as glamorous as some mystery disease.

  26. #26 Prometheus
    January 26, 2012

    A “money quote” from Randy Wymore, Morgellons apologist:

    “There is always the question: How many of the study participants actually have Morgellons Disease?”

    I confidently predict that this will be a core part of the “rebuttal” from those who stand to profit from continued belief in “Morgellons disease”. I expect that the argument will run along the lines of the “no true Scotsman” fallacy, for example:

    “The failure to find consistent pathology (or something scary and unusual in the “fibres”) is proof positive that the subjects didn’t have Morgellons disease because – as we all know – everybody with true Morgellons disease has a consistent pathology and the fibres coming out of their skin are not simply strands of cotton or nylon.

    Remember, you heard it here first.

    Prometheus

  27. #27 Mu
    January 26, 2012

    Dawn@21 yes, he took out the double negative ;).

  28. #28 Roadstergal
    January 26, 2012

    @HP 20 – yep, I have a comment in moderation saying more or less that.

  29. #29 lilady
    January 26, 2012

    I “foresee” how the results of this study will be interpreted by Morgellons Disease “patients”.

    They are going to wrap up a number of conspiracy theories into one grand conspiracy.

    The CDC and Big Government are in cahoots with Big Medical Insurance Companies (Kaiser), so that “Big Medical Insurance Companies (Kaiser)” do not cover treatment for this devastating disease.

    “Everyone” knows that “Chronic Lyme Disease” is associated with Morgellons Disease and “everyone” knows that laboratories such as Igenex in California can test for “Chronic Lyme Disease” with their LUAT (Lyme Urine Antigen Test). *”Everyone” knows that the CDC and the IDSA do not accept LUATs performed by Igenex as being valid.

    **”Everyone” knows that the conspiracy has been documented on the wiki/Talk website.

    * LUATs have been tested repeatedly for sensitivity and specificity and have failed repeatedly to meet lab standards for accuracy.

    ** See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMorgellons/Nielsp

  30. #30 Art
    January 26, 2012

    The fatigue, short-term memory loss, attention deficit, impaired thought processing (brain fog), depression and feelings of isolation can all be symptoms of depression.

    Add in an excessive focus on cleanliness, too frequent hand washing and bathing, low humidity and you get itchy dry skin. Excessive use of certain vitamins can certainly cause tingling.

    Itchy skin gets you focused on examining the skin with a magnifier and, low and behold, there are all sorts of fibers they have never contemplated.

    Social isolation from depression means you have lots of spare time to obsess about these new ideas. You get compulsive about removing and collecting these strange fibers. You try to talk to people but they just don’t understand. Which deepens the depression, and the compulsion, and frustration.

    It also opens people up to paranoia and conspiracy theories. A scan of the Morgellons sites will find comments and links to entire imaginative constructs linking it to chemtrails, nanoparticles, HARP, mind control and the dark nether regions where Alex Jones and friends are rulers of the kingdom of crazy. Where everything is part of a intricate and manifold tapestry of conspiracy and intrigue.

    A world so out there that people can claim, with a straight face no less, that Obama spend time working for an obscure defense contractor as a time traveling agent functionary on mars and a considerable portion of the crowd nods their heads knowingly.

    It is also a world where people can talk about their Morgellons and people will be accepting and supportive, even going so far as to integrate your assertions into their assumptions, as long as you are accepting of the resident crazies pet conspiracy theories. The unwritten rule is that you will not demand proof, apply science, or question too closely anything posted. If someone says it it is to be accepted as fact.

  31. #31 Lewis Standing
    January 26, 2012

    dermatitis artifacta plus or minus thought disorder anyone?

  32. #32 Rjaye
    January 26, 2012

    “It saddens me that feel like I have to comment on this whenever Morgellon’s comes up . . .

    Delusional parasitosis is a real disease. Psychosomatic symptoms are real symptoms, and mental illness is real illness. No one’s accusing Morgellon’s sufferers of being “crazy” or “making it up.”

    Delusional parasitosis is a real diagnosis of a real illness that real people really get, and there are effective treatments available.

    It’s sad that these people have to go without effective treatment just so some insensitive clods can hold on to their outdated prejudices about mental illness.

    Posted by: HP | January 26, 2012 11:31 AM”

    I wanted to reiterate what HP said, so that any Morgellon’s sufferers (gosh, I hope that nomen doesn’t stick) understand that researchers aren’t dismissing their suffering, just that we don’t know what it is yet.

    The study does show some correlations that can lead to different kinds of studies, and possible treatments. If someone with Morgellon symptoms have symptoms of other mental diseases, perhaps treatments for those illnesses will alleviate the symptoms of Morgellons.

    People with depression feel more pain and aches than those without depression-so a med that relieves depression often relieves pain. I have a degenerative bone disorder in my back-I take Celexa, an antidepressant, for back pain.

    Morgellon’s is real. What it is, we don’t know yet, and unfortunately, scammers are out to take advantage of people with Morgellons.

  33. #33 Jen
    January 26, 2012

    I found recently that SLS seems to make my skin really itchy ( most shampoos, bubble bath products contain it). Is that “psychiatric?”

  34. #34 sophia8
    January 26, 2012

    HeatherD70 @15: What you have is very probably atopic eczema. I get the same sort of thing on my ankles, shoulders and arms, where my clothing rubs the most. Try wearing natural-fibre clothing, using allergen-free soap powder and allergen-free moisturising cream when it itches. That all works for me – I was scratching myself until I was bleeding, before I cottoned on to what was causing it.

  35. #35 Roving Rockhound
    January 26, 2012

    And then there are some “sufferers” of Morgellons that take it to a completely new level. Vaccines, chemtrails, electromagnetic waves, nanoparticles, self-replicating nanomachines, and aliens are all part of a huge government conspiracy towards transhumanism. And apparently the lint that accumulates at the base of the bristles in your hairbrush are PROOF that you have also been infected with Morgellons.

    http://www.morgellonsexposed.com/

  36. #36 Jon H
    January 26, 2012

    This guy: http://www.alienscalpel.com

    is a foot doctor who has branched out into what appears to be a study of “alien implants” that looks an awful lot like Morgellons crankery.

  37. #37 Elizabeth Reid
    January 26, 2012

    Morgellons is obviously bogus, but I can’t help feel a twinge of sympathy for the sufferers. It can be really difficult when you’re having a problem, and the physician you encounter seems to move too quickly to the explanation that whatever you’re feeling is all in your head (and does it in a tone that makes you feel like he’s twirling a finger at the side of his head in the universal symbol for crazy). I do know that some problems ARE in people’s heads, but I’m a techie, and I know how easy it is to blame ‘user error’ when you get saddled with a complex, sporadic and unpredictable problem – and how that judgement can be wrong. It’s super frustrating when it’s your computer, and it’s even more frustrating when it’s a persistent pain or itch or other problem in your body. I don’t know how you get from there to trying to prove it’s alien fibers or whatever, but we all know that people will grasp at explanations, no matter how silly.

  38. #38 Edith Prickly
    January 26, 2012

    Jen@ 33 – if SLS means sodium lauryl sulfate, it is a known skin irritant: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/definition/1396/sodium-lauryl-sulfate.aspx

    If you switch to products that contain milder surfactants: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/definition/1453/surfactant.aspx and avoid bar soaps entirely (too drying), that should help. Products with heavy fragrances and/or essential oils can also cause skin irritation.

    So no, it’s not psychiatric.

  39. #39 Tsu Dho Nimh
    January 26, 2012

    @15 … Heather, you have developed a self-perpetuating skin problem. It may have started with dry skin, but you into self-inflicted pain now.

    If nylons and caffiene make it worse, quit them.

    Use as little soap as possible, as seldom as possible. Shower with nothing more than warm water and a soft washcloth, and use soap only on armpits and groin.

    Use a good moisturizing lotion on your legs and arms – wherever the itching is a problem.

    If you have an itchy spot, slap it, don’t scratch it.

  40. #40 Pale Rider
    January 26, 2012

    What about Silvermaven’s comments regarding Morgellons on the Jenny McCarthy thread of December twenty-eighth?

  41. #41 Candy
    January 26, 2012

    What about Silvermaven’s comments regarding Morgellons on the Jenny McCarthy thread of December twenty-eighth?

    What about it? And what about a link?

  42. #42 Narad
    January 26, 2012

    Vaccines, chemtrails, electromagnetic waves, nanoparticles, self-replicating nanomachines, and aliens are all part of a huge government conspiracy towards transhumanism.

    Judging by the self-described “Transhumanists” I’ve run across, I’ll take the Etheric Warriors.

  43. #43 adelady
    January 26, 2012

    “It can be really difficult when you’re having a problem, and the physician you encounter seems to move too quickly to the explanation that whatever you’re feeling is all in your head …”

    That’s exactly what happened to my father. Early 1960s, Freudian psychoanalysis raging through the medical community like a hurricane, genetic testing unheard of. The poor man was at the end of his tether with invisible ‘insects’ ravaging his hands and arms. So his ‘treatment’ consisted entirely of exhortations to disclose and face up to all his sexual ‘hangups’. (Two of our GPs were well advanced in getting their psychiatrist qualifications.) Seeing as he didn’t even like to talk about his day at work, this was not an opportunity he seized upon with glee.

    We may not now have that particular silly notion about psychological underpinnings of problems, but the leaping to conclusions about ‘stress’ and a ‘busy life’ being the source of symptoms can be disheartening for patients with less-than-obvious conditions.

  44. #44 marty
    January 26, 2012

    Dangerous Bacon @9:
    Now that the big CDC study’s results have been released, the Morgellons “commmunity” will be itching to attack the big government coverup

    I see what you did there… :D

  45. #45 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    January 26, 2012

    If you verify that the “fibers” are merely normal fibers one is surrounded by, and that the lesions, sores, and crusty material is all caused by itching (and these cause the fibers to adhere), then what do you have left?
    Itching and dermatitis primarily from the sound of it.
    And itching and dermatitis can have many, many causes.

  46. #46 bob
    January 26, 2012

    Interesting how ALL the sores are in places that sufferers can reach (ie none in the small of the back).

  47. #47 Terrie
    January 26, 2012

    @46, Actually, if you’re motivated enough, reaching that spot between your shoulder blades is a lot easier than you’d think. I once gave myself a lovely set of scrapes by using a butter knife to reach those spots. I itched so much I would have used sand paper if someone had told me it would help.

    I know all to well how bad itchiness can really get. Despite keeping my nails so short that they’re only a millimeter or 2 long, I have often scratched until I bled. But, unfortunately, I also know all to well that there are no magical solutions. I doubt I’ll ever be cured of my skin issues, but I have learned to manage them. Which means it’s a perfect condition to breed woo in those prone to it. Complex causes, no cure, and many doctors simply having to shrug and say “It is what it is.”

  48. #48 Vasha
    January 26, 2012

    The thing that distinguishes “Morgellon’s” from other skin or neurological disorders is that patients are unshakably convinced that their symptoms are caused by a parasite, infectious disease, or foreign substance, and insist that any doctor who disagrees with this must be lying or not taking them seriously: in other words, it is caused by something external and could not possibly be a function of their own bodies. I see commonalities with biomedical autism ideas (toxins, vaccines, etc.) — in this worldview, problems are caused by foreign substances, not something native to the self. Disease as an invasion. Then there are people who describe cancer as masses of yeast or putrefying acids or whatever it is — no way these could be my very own cells! Not so very far from seeing disease as caused by witchcraft: there is nothing wrong with me, instead I’m being attacked.

  49. #49 Pseudonym
    January 27, 2012

    The conclusion of this study was completely inappropriate – trying to blame the suffering because 50% had drugs detected in their hair. This isn’t fair because the suffering of this condition can lead to patients obtaining prescription of drugs such as opiates and benzodiazpeines. And the medical journal made it pretty clear they were suffering when you dig into the details.

    Many had infection, markers of inflammation, and a positive ANA. Some others had markers for possible Hepatitis C virus, Hepatitis B virus, and some other infections. This study was a small sample size of only 40 patients, but they seemed to find quite a lot of abnormalities in my opinion.

    Furthermore, how did they determine that the cellulose fibers they found is consistent with cotton fibers? Is this really possible? If not, the authors should have made it clear that they could not determine exactly what the fibers were or their origin. Cellulose fibers can be from a number of things. For an example, some species of bacteria secrete cellulose to create biofilms. That’s just one example, and I am not saying that is what is happening.

    The data obtained from this study really isn’t too bad, It would have also helped to provide a table of comprehensive data obtained from infections, lab results, and inflammatory markers to get a better idea of how many total are suffering with something detectable and how many have co-morbid conditions. I would have liked to see more inflammatory markers looked at instead of the non-specific CRP and ESR.

    Parts of the conclusion is horrendous and inexcusable in my opinion. It feels as they are trying to convince the reader that the people in the study are drug addicts.

    However, this study has made it clear that that at least a portion of these patients may be suffering from something that is detectable, and it’s not “all in their head”. Furthermore, even with absence of laboratory evidence of anything they tested for, calling people delusional (especially when some have sores on their back they can’t even scratch themselves) does not seem appropriate. No matter what the condition is, or what you want to label it, all of these patients are suffering, and deserve compassionate medical help. And just because they couldn’t find a single shared laboratory marker among all patients this study doesn’t mean the disease is not real. It means they couldn’t find a shared laboratory marker based on the ones they chose for the study.

    We must keep in mind that these patients have chronic problems and publishing articles calling them delusional and crazy doesn’t seem to be making them disappear. So instead of blaming the patient for their illness, I think it would be more appropriate to explore ways to help them. And saying, “You are delusional, take this drug” isn’t the type of care I am talking about. That approach would be insulting to anybody.

  50. #50 Andreas Johansson
    January 27, 2012

    @46, 47: Is reaching the area between your shoulder blades supposed to be hard? I can reach it easily, and I don’t think I’m particularly agile (“remarkably rigid” is how one PE teacher described me).

  51. #51 Elizabeth Reid
    January 27, 2012

    “We may not now have that particular silly notion about psychological underpinnings of problems, but the leaping to conclusions about ‘stress’ and a ‘busy life’ being the source of symptoms can be disheartening for patients with less-than-obvious conditions.”

    Yes, that’s exactly what I mean. It seems as though nearly everyone* I know who had a difficult-to-diagnose problem which did, ultimately, turn out to have a Proper Scientific Name, was told somewhere along the path to a diagnosis that it was probably stress-related and told to quit caffeine and get more sleep. Which isn’t awful advice overall, but not particularly relevant if the problem is pernicious anemia or whatever. Again, I’ve certainly been guilty of this myself in my non-medical diagnosis of why people’s computers were misbehaving, so I don’t mean this as some sort of sweeping indictment of the medical profession or medical professionals. It’s a human tendency, to want to wave away anything inexplicable and difficult. It just really sucks from the patient’s point of view, and when it meets up with susceptible individuals probably feeds all kinds of woo.

    * anecdote, hyperbole, confirmation bias, but still

  52. #52 Beamup
    January 27, 2012

    The conclusion of this study was completely inappropriate – trying to blame the suffering because 50% had drugs detected in their hair. This isn’t fair because the suffering of this condition can lead to patients obtaining prescription of drugs such as opiates and benzodiazpeines.

    Did you even read the paper?

    We found evidence of drug use in 50% of participants. Formication can be a side affect drug use (prescription and illicit) and drug withdrawal, but the extent to which case-patients’ drug use contributed to, or was being used as a treatment for, the condition was not determined. The high prevalence of drug use also may represent some case-patients’ attempts to alleviate frustration or symptoms associated with the illness.

    They are not saying anything even vaguely similar to what you claim, and in fact are pretty close to your own argument.

    Many had infection, markers of inflammation, and a positive ANA. Some others had markers for possible Hepatitis C virus, Hepatitis B virus, and some other infections. This study was a small sample size of only 40 patients, but they seemed to find quite a lot of abnormalities in my opinion.

    None indicative of parasites.

    Furthermore, how did they determine that the cellulose fibers they found is consistent with cotton fibers? Is this really possible?

    Read the bloody paper, for crying out loud. They describe it. Also, you might want to check a dictionary. “Consistent with” is not the same thing as “definitely is.” IOW, the fibers provide no evidence of anything out of the ordinary since they can be credibly accounted for as coming off cloth.

    That’s just one example, and I am not saying that is what is happening.

    BS. You are quite clearly trying to claim that some such IS happening. Your protestation to the contrary is completely unconvincing.

    Parts of the conclusion is horrendous and inexcusable in my opinion. It feels as they are trying to convince the reader that the people in the study are drug addicts.

    Since we’ve already established that you didn’t bother to read it, why should we pay any attention to what you think is “horrendous and inexcusable” when you made it up?

    However, this study has made it clear that that at least a portion of these patients may be suffering from something that is detectable, and it’s not “all in their head”.

    Nobody denies that they are suffering. The question is, from what.

    Furthermore, even with absence of laboratory evidence of anything they tested for, calling people delusional (especially when some have sores on their back they can’t even scratch themselves) does not seem appropriate.

    Again, you clearly don’t know what’s actually being said. A conviction that symptoms are caused by parasites, in the face of convincing evidence to the contrary, qualifies as delusional parasitosis. This is NOT a claim that the symptoms are a delusion. Your implication otherwise is a lie.

    No matter what the condition is, or what you want to label it, all of these patients are suffering, and deserve compassionate medical help.

    Absolutely. And maintaining that there’s some kind of parasite producing mysterious fibers is quite the opposite of “compassionate medical help.” It actively IMPEDES proper medical understanding of the condition.

    We must keep in mind that these patients have chronic problems and publishing articles calling them delusional and crazy doesn’t seem to be making them disappear.

    We’ve been over this; your claim here is a lie.

    So instead of blaming the patient for their illness

    Which nobody is doing.

    I think it would be more appropriate to explore ways to help them.

    Trying to figure out what is actually causing their symptoms doesn’t count as exploring ways to help?

  53. #53 Terrie
    January 27, 2012

    @50. Reaching it isn’t so hard, but try scratching it. Not easy.

  54. #54 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    January 27, 2012

    @53 If only there were some device or tool that could be used to extend one’s reach and help one scratch areas that might otherwise be unscratched. Or even a surface that one could rub against to relieve the horrible itching sensation. Sadly, until some mad genius creates such a miracle of medical science…

  55. #55 Narad
    January 27, 2012

    Reaching it isn’t so hard, but try scratching it. Not easy.

    No particular difficulty here. Then again, I’m not exactly Charles Atlas.

  56. #56 Calli Arcale
    January 27, 2012

    Haha, yes there are backscratchers, but they were talking about how it’s interesting Morgellon patients always seem to have their lesions where they can easily scratch with their hands. This is interesting because although you can certainly use a tool to scratch your back, *unconscious* scratching won’t usually involve a tool. People tend to underestimate how often they scratch themselves pretty severely; nobody believes they’re doing things they’re not aware of, but we all are of course.

  57. #57 jim
    January 27, 2012

    I’m just delurking to say that I now have an itch between my shoulder blades. You bastards.

  58. #58 LovleAnjel
    January 27, 2012

    @56 – “People tend to underestimate how often they scratch themselves pretty severely; nobody believes they’re doing things they’re not aware of, but we all are of course.”

    Absolutely – and they are also scratching themselves in their sleep. That really limits where the damage is going to be.

  59. #59 Pseudonym
    January 27, 2012

    They are not saying anything even vaguely similar to what you claim, and in fact are pretty close to your own argument.

    It’s not necessarily what they say, it’s how the information is presented. It seems that the study authors thought it was important to talk about drug use many times over in the study. It reads as if they have a bias that it’s drugs.

    They mentioned that 12% had a history of substance abuse for example. What substances? Does marijuana count as substance abuse, because that wouldn’t be too surprising among California residents. The study doesn’t say. How does this compare to the normal population? How does this figure compare to others with debilitating chronic conditions? A quick search, and I found a study that found 19% of people with multiple sclerosis (PMID: 14760950). Among the normal population, about 6% of Americans abuse drugs. Illicit drug use in the United States was 8.3% in 2006.

    http://www.drugabusestatistics.samhsa.gov/nsduh/2k6nsduh/2k6Results.cfm#Fig2-1

    So the study says that 12% of the patients had a previous history of drug abuse. How many were still doing drugs? Anyway, even with the small sample size, the number is by no means high and seems pretty consistent with the normal population. Of course you would need a larger population to determine if these people are more prone to drug abuse.

    Many had infection, markers of inflammation, and a positive ANA. Some others had markers for possible Hepatitis C virus, Hepatitis B virus, and some other infections. This study was a small sample size of only 40 patients, but they seemed to find quite a lot of abnormalities in my opinion.

    Many patients, and their physicians that treat them do not call the fibers parasites. They simply call it fibers coming from their skin. Of course, some patients may hold a belief that their fibers are a parasites, but it was already common knowledge the the fibers could not be identified.

    Read the bloody paper, for crying out loud. They describe it. Also, you might want to check a dictionary. “Consistent with” is not the same thing as “definitely is.” IOW, the fibers provide no evidence of anything out of the ordinary since they can be credibly accounted for as coming off cloth.

    I slipped up with words when I was writing quickly, but thanks for pointing out my mistake. Yes, the fibers could be accounted for coming off of cloth, but as far as I know, you can’t prove that it is. Randy S. Wymore Ph.D. from Oklahoma State University has been doing FTIR spectroscopy for years with several different forensic labs. The fiber from Figure 7 looks completely consistent with a Morgellon’s fiber. I will give them that. However, I remain very skeptical that they could determine it was most likely a cotton fiber. Fiber pulled off of clothing or a cotton swab isn’t visually consistent with the Morgellon’s type fiber under a microscope. They look completely different. Of course, I can’t provide a citation here because I’m not sure if they exist beyond power point slides and drafts.

    BS. You are quite clearly trying to claim that some such IS happening. Your protestation to the contrary is completely unconvincing.

    I am not claiming such a thing is happening. I find the evidence that these fibers are from clothing as unconvincing. If so, one could take a piece of scotch tape, pull some fibers off of clothes, and show that it is consistent with a Morgellon’s type fiber. I agree that I am probably unconvincing since there is not published medical literature to back up what I am saying. I understand that when I can’t support what I say with published medical journals, my words will be taking with lots of skepticism. That’s ok.

    Since we’ve already established that you didn’t bother to read it, why should we pay any attention to what you think is “horrendous and inexcusable” when you made it up?

    I do think all the drug data is inappropriate as I already explained above.

    I don’t have time to respond to each thing at this point, so I’ll stop here for now.

  60. #60 Andreas Johansson
    January 27, 2012

    @50. Reaching it isn’t so hard, but try scratching it. Not easy.

    Can’t say I find it hard. Not exactly easy, perhaps, but I can’t imagine it falls into the area of too hard to do unconsciously.

  61. #61 Terrie
    January 27, 2012

    @54, As I’ve noted, I once did some impressive damage using a butter knife to reach. But if some people can easily reach their entire back to scratch with their finger nails, lucky them. (Or maybe not. My worst trouble spots for perpetuated itching are the ones I can reach easily with my nails).

  62. #62 ildi
    January 27, 2012

    Re. scratching the middle of your back: excess weight can make it difficult to reach, and even if you can reach it easily, it’s not easy to get the leverage you need to scratch really hard, which is what you want to do when you suffer from eczema. I’ve strained muscles in the front of my shoulder by scratching my back in my sleep. In my experience, eczema itching is different from ‘regular’ itching in that the skin feels like it itches under the surface. No matter how bloody and raw the skin can get from being scratched, it still itches underneath.

  63. #63 Natalie
    January 27, 2012

    For whatever it’s worth, I can reach and scratch all of my back. My joints hyper-extend, which seems to make it easier.

    adelady @ 4, you are nearly convincing me to get tested for CMT (my mother has it). I didn’t realize itching was a symptom.

  64. #64 Calli Arcale
    January 27, 2012

    I can reach all of my back, but it’s not exactly what I’d call “easy”. Not something I’m going to do without meaning to, certainly. Maybe it’s because I have a combination of broad shoulders and short arms? When I really want to satisfy an itchy back, though, I always need a wall, a tool, or a friend to scratch it for me.

  65. #65 Matthew Cline
    January 27, 2012

    @Pseudonym:

    If Morgellons fibers aren’t textile fibers, but are produced by the disease, then send samples to people who are experts in that sort of thing; they’d be delighted to be able to publish a paper about something totally new.

  66. #66 adelady
    January 27, 2012

    Natalie, getting tested is probably a good idea. Especially if you have problems using scissors or secateurs because your hands go numb.

    But, funny. I “knew” I had it before I was tested, but I still found the positive result distressing at the time. Now I know to not buy bras with straps and not to persist with shoes that make my legs tired. And I’m reconciled to my hands gradually finishing up with the weird question mark shape when the muscles are finally, completely, useless. But for me, that won’t happen until I’m close to 90 so, hey ho, worse things happen at sea.

    The great advantage of a positive test result is getting good advice about suitable exercise. It really is vitally important to “stretch” all those muscles at the end of the ‘long nerves’ to keep maximum strength and usefulness. And never, ever wear a shoulder bag or carry anything heavy in a plastic bag. (4 or 6 months of hand numbness is no joke.)

  67. #67 Antaeus Feldspar
    January 27, 2012

    Yes, the fibers could be accounted for coming off of cloth, but as far as I know, you can’t prove that it is.

    The burden of proof is on those who say the Morgellon’s fibers do not come from a conventional source to demonstrate that the fibers cannot be common textile fibers. If I claim that I was aboard an alien spacecraft, and as “proof” I offer a jug of a mysterious clear liquid supposedly not like anything found on Earth, I’m the one that needs to demonstrate some way that the liquid doesn’t act like plain ol’ water – it’s not up to everyone else to run every single conceivable test to prove that it does act like ordinary water and therefore probably is.

  68. #68 Vicki
    January 27, 2012

    Pseudonym:

    You are the one who is “blaming the patients” and stigmatizing mental illness.

    The brain is an organ, and is subject to imperfections and malfunctions, as are other organs. “Delusion” sounds bad, to laypeople. But it’s a symptom, and one that can be addressed as such. I hope that if someone described an anxiety disorder, you wouldn’t insist that the doctor who had diagnosed them was blaming the patient by giving them a psychiatric diagnosis.

    I have problems with itching that seem to be some combination of dry skin and allergies, exacerbated by rubbing at the areas that itch. I know that scratching doesn’t help, but I can’t always stop myself. When it happens, I don’t conclude that I am “at fault.” I do things like deliberately tuck my hands under a blanket if my nose itches, or put vaseline on my skin to try and soothe it. I also run a humidifier. And I grumble. Fortunately, that’s as far as it goes: I talked to a dermatologist, she found no infections, and could recommend only a change in soap and the above-mentioned vaseline.

    Yes, it’s hard to accept that I am likely to have this problem every winter. I sympathize with people who can’t believe that there is no curable physical cause for their itching. I’m not claiming to be better than they are: just more fortunate.

    That my itching isn’t psychological doesn’t actually help much: it still itches.

  69. #69 KN
    January 27, 2012

    This is somewhat off topic but not entirely. In my work I have for years received countless insect bites usually from carnivorous flies I think but am not sure because they are so small. They itch like the dickens (the bites you never feel the flies on you or when they bite you). The only thing I have found that seems to relieve the itching to a reasonable extent is very hot water applied liberally, that is showers so hot they are nearly painful. But it works, the itching is ameliorated for up to a few hours.

    My question is, why does this work? It might possibly be of benefit to others who suffer from non-specific itching as well. It can be used to counter the itching induced by plant secretions (such as poison ivy) but care must be exercised to completely remove the oils that cause the reaction first, that is copious amounts of soap and water on the affected area to begin with.

  70. #70 Marilyn
    January 28, 2012

    Somehow I came across this site and it makes for interesting read. I’m one of those delusional people who’s entire family with the exception of one has this disease. It all started with me, but quickly found it’s way to my son, mother and one brother. I don’t know of anyone else I’ve ever given this to, so my first thought is it has some kind of DNA component to it. However, then how did I get it?

    If you want to know the real story of morgellons, you need to talk to someone who has lived it. I find it disturbing what is put out about this disease on the internet. I never think I have a machine in my body, but I can tell you I was living a normal life with my family when I found it impossible to sleep in my bed because of the feel of pinpricks all over my body. I only wish I were delusional, then there would be help for me and my family. There are babies with this disease, born of mother’s with what they call morgellon’s. How can a 4 month old be delusional. I now know, the pinpricks were the fibers which were all over my bedroom and my bed. I don’t know if they were entering my body or leaving it or both. I just know what I felt. My family’s life would never be the same.

    I’ve yet to see an article or a show on TV that tells much about this disease. I don’t think they could, because it would frighten to many people if they actually would believe it exists. It’s hard for me to believe it and I’ve had this for 8 years.

    Why would the CDC wait years to come out with a report that is sure to prevent any real help for us, a very good question isn’t it? I was never one for conspiracy but I know it wouldn’t be hard to find evidence of this disease, so I know the CDC or Kaiser or both lied. The question is why? Not to frighten people maybe? I don’t know why, I just know they did.

  71. #71 Pseudonym
    January 28, 2012

    The brain is an organ, and is subject to imperfections and malfunctions, as are other organs. “Delusion” sounds bad, to laypeople. But it’s a symptom, and one that can be addressed as such. I hope that if someone described an anxiety disorder, you wouldn’t insist that the doctor who had diagnosed them was blaming the patient by giving them a psychiatric diagnosis.

    I agree. However, I don’t know if I agree that the brain is completely responsible for the symptoms of Morgellon’s. In my opinion, Morgellon’s looks like a form of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and/or Fibromyalgia with something causing skin symptoms. Patients with these syndromes are often told by their doctor that they are suffering from anxiety or depression. Sure, these are just symptoms, but just because these are symptoms of the illness doesn’t mean they are the cause. And there can be organic causes of anxiety and depressive disorders, so you can’t assume these are always caused by mind/thoughts.

    And yes, many with conditions such as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia are still mistreated by much of the medical community and hospitals. Some of the patients that are mistreated are severely sick to the point they are bedridden. They may present seizures, infection, inflammation, hypercoagulation, panic attacks, orthostatic intolerance/syncope, and more, but they are still a target of disbelief for some reason that I don’t understand. Some of the more severe cases can look a lot like a SLE patient. I’m sure some here are going to try to deny this statement, but it’s the truth.

    And once one gets written of as having having a “mental disorder” by “ruling everything out”, many doctors refuse to do further testing. I think this study makes it somewhat clear that even if Morgellon’s is not real, they may have other conditions or autoimmunity causing or contributing to much of their symptoms. If I remember right (and someone can correct me if I am wrong), the study failed to mention how many patients were previously diagnosed autoimmune conditions since there was a fair number if positive ANAs. It would have been a lot more interesting if they measured a number of specific inflammatory markers and immune markers instead of non-specific markers such ESR and sed rate. I guess the budget prevented them from doing this.

    Skeptics in the medical community seem to jump to very quickly to anxiety/depression explanations when they can’t quickly identify a problem. I’ve never understood how a skeptic can be so skeptical about everything, but so willing to jump to psychosomatic explanations at the sound of the gun without any evidence to support their assumption. It seems to me that many doctors/humans just don’t want to admit when they don’t know.

    Oh, and what’s the average time it takes to identify the cause of a chronic illness? Has there been any other chronic illnesses that were at one point was target of disbelief amongst the majority? Right.

  72. #72 lilady
    January 28, 2012

    “Why would the CDC wait years to come out with a report that is sure to prevent any real help for us, a very good question isn’t it? I was never one for conspiracy but I know it wouldn’t be hard to find evidence of this disease, so I know the CDC or Kaiser or both lied. The question is why? Not to frighten people maybe? I don’t know why, I just know they did.”

    Marilyn…why would doctors and scientists lie? You’ve made a serious allegation here with no plausible explanation.

    I presume you, your son, your mother and your brother who now have your same symptoms have been to a slew of doctors and specialists. What have they all told you and your family about the symptoms? Are these personal physicians all lying as well?

    You knowledge about DNA or genetics is spectacularly ignorant. If there was “some component of DNA” Morgellons disease symptoms would not have shown up in three generations of the same family within a short period of time.

    The mind came play tricks on you and I suspect that the first diagnosis within your family (your’s), has caused the onset of symptoms in other family members.

    Try to get some psychiatric help for yourself, while still following the advice of a dermatologist for topical creams and antihistamines. And, for goodness sake stay away from crank practitioners and internet sites where people are taken in by pseudoscience.

  73. #73 Marilyn
    January 28, 2012

    I can assure you that I need no psychiatric help. I had a physician who left me go when I first went to him in 04 with some of the issues I was experiencing. Looking back on those early days I can understand how I must have sounded. This disease is very scary when you first start seeing and feeling symptoms. After I was diagnosed as psychotic by the second one, like most with this disease I started keeping my mouth shut.

    You will have to overlook my ignorance on some things as I’m not a doctor or a scientist but I lost my innocence that doctors knew everything when my dad got cancer 12 years ago followed by mom with alzheimer’s. Mom lives with me and she has this disease as well. When I came down with this disease my son and I lived in an apt. not with my brother and mom. Mom wouldn’t have had the ability to think she had anything, she just got it like my brother did. He’s a veteran and could probably go to the VA but he chooses not to see anyone about this as we know there is no help. I don’t know how they got it, but the person whom I believe gave it to me was in there home a lot during my father’s illness.

    I’m saying that this disease no matter what name you want to put to it is very real. Your assuming I need psychiatric help and you don’t know me or what I’ve experienced. In the beginning I did think I was crazy, but the psychiatrist told me to tell my doctor to check all physical problems before diagnosing me as psychotic and gave me a clean bill of mental health. There are more psychiatrist helping people with this disease than doctors.

    If the disease is real, than the reports that this has to be all in our heads is a false one. That’s what I’m saying. Most doctors don’t have a clue what this is or how to treat it. Some do try but with my son’s doctor he was waiting to see the report from the CDC to know how to proceed. I wonder what he’ll think now? This report is a damaging one for those of us that just want help to get our lives back.

    I have no creams nor take antihistamines and never did, nor do I have a dermatologist. I saw one who looked at my skin and talked into his recorder that I had an unknown etiology. My mother’s doctor mentioned that my mother has some unusual skin symptoms. I said nothing, I know better. I do believe that there are many people who are desperate enough to try many things to relieve symptoms. This is kind of understandable to me and not crazy. There could be a few really crazy one’s who don’t legitimately have this disease. Most people are like us. We lived a normal life like everyone else who contracted a bizarre and frightening illness through no fault of our own.

    Do you think Joni Mitchell or Billy Koch are psychotic too? His symptoms cost him his pitching career. Why is T Boone Pickens donating to the cause? Is he nuts too? I don’t know him, so I can’t vouch for him but often wonder why he’s involved.

    Many are intensely itchy, like my son. He tries his best to live some kind of life as he is young and getting married in the fall but he can’t lay down and sleep more than a couple of hours without waking up intensely itchy. He can’t rest day or night, this is heartbreaking for me as we all need to be able to rest. He’s been to the Cleveland Clinic and tried all the creams and antihistamines they don’t work. He never mentions this disease, we all learn not to.

    We get this disease somehow, so to reassure the public that there is nothing contagious about it is wrong. I wish all the energy trying to make us sound crazy would be spent in assuming for a minute it’s real and what could cause this to happen. If you don’t think I make sense, the man who was pointing to his head about how mentally ill we are has no authority to speak at all. Why was he on fox making judgements like that. Maybe he should listen to those patients he says have come to him for help instead of dismissing them. I read above that it is up to us to prove this exists, but it’s hard to do that when your dismissed. This long overdue report means nothing to me. I read it best I could, but it’s pretty vague and shows no real understanding of this disease. There are many fibers involved and not a cotton fiber that may or may not have come from the environment.

    This disease is not about picking at one’s skin. The lesions are made from what comes out. My sister in law is a pharmacist in Columbus and long before we knew anything about morgellons she told my son that his bumps looked like they came from the inside out. Your all entitled to believe as you wish, but I thought this was a site where people had open minds. There is no disease like this one. The various fibers were compared to all other known fibers by Dr Wymore and none matched. He himself was a skeptic, but to his credit he took a look and realized that this was indeed a real illness.

  74. #74 Judi Vance
    January 28, 2012

    Perhaps change comes when the scientists sit down and examine their own hair under a microscope. Do areas fluoresce? And why might that be?

  75. #75 Ken
    January 28, 2012

    So if I’m reading Vasha @48 correctly, the study doesn’t actually accomplish anything. The people who already thought the condition was psychological have their belief confirmed; those that believed it was physical are shown wrong, but by the nature of the condition won’t change their minds.

    No, wait, I take that back; it may at least prompt some action against the “quacks” Orac mentioned, if not by the FDA then by the insurance companies who may have been paying for the treatments.

  76. #76 Pseudonym
    January 28, 2012

    You knowledge about DNA or genetics is spectacularly ignorant. If there was “some component of DNA” Morgellons disease symptoms would not have shown up in three generations of the same family within a short period of time.

    If Morgellon’s were proven to be real, sure it could. Susceptibility to an illness can increase with combination of common genetic and environmental factors. Pretty simple concept.

  77. #77 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    January 28, 2012

    Marilyn,
    No one says that the symptoms are all in your head. The current best evidence does say:
    – there’s no evidence of a parasite, particularly a common parasite to Morgellons cases.
    – the best current evidence is that the fibers reported are picked up from the environment and do not come from inside the body.
    If you have good evidence to the contrary, please work with someone in medical research to properly document and analyze it.
    I am not a doctor, so won’t try any kind of diagnosis. Your family really should see a dermatologist or two to try to deal with your sores, rash, and itch.

  78. #78 Marilyn
    January 28, 2012

    I can assure you that I need no psychiatric help. I had a physician who left me go when I first went to him in 04 with some of the issues I was experiencing. Looking back on those early days I can understand how I must have sounded. This disease is very scary when you first start seeing and feeling symptoms. After I was diagnosed as psychotic by the second one, like most with this disease I started keeping my mouth shut.

    You will have to overlook my ignorance on some things as I’m not a doctor or a scientist but I lost my innocence that doctors knew everything when my dad got cancer 12 years ago followed by mom with alzheimer’s. Mom lives with me and she has this disease as well. When I came down with this disease my son and I lived in an apt. not with my brother and mom. Mom wouldn’t have had the ability to think she had anything, she just got it like my brother did. He’s a veteran and could probably go to the VA but he chooses not to see anyone about this as we know there is no help. I don’t know how they got it, but the person whom I believe gave it to me was in there home a lot during my father’s illness.

    I’m saying that this disease no matter what name you want to put to it is very real. Your assuming I need psychiatric help and you don’t know me or what I’ve experienced. In the beginning I did think I was crazy, but the psychiatrist told me to tell my doctor to check all physical problems before diagnosing me as psychotic and gave me a clean bill of mental health. There are more psychiatrist helping people with this disease than doctors.

    If the disease is real, than the reports that this has to be all in our heads is a false one. That’s what I’m saying. Most doctors don’t have a clue what this is or how to treat it. Some do try but with my son’s doctor he was waiting to see the report from the CDC to know how to proceed. I wonder what he’ll think now? This report is a damaging one for those of us that just want help to get our lives back.

    I have no creams nor take antihistamines and never did, nor do I have a dermatologist. I saw one who looked at my skin and talked into his recorder that I had an unknown etiology. My mother’s doctor mentioned that my mother has some unusual skin symptoms. I said nothing, I know better. I do believe that there are many people who are desperate enough to try many things to relieve symptoms. This is kind of understandable to me and not crazy. There could be a few really crazy one’s who don’t legitimately have this disease. Most people are like us. We lived a normal life like everyone else who contracted a bizarre and frightening illness through no fault of our own.

    Do you think Joni Mitchell or Billy Koch are psychotic too? His symptoms cost him his pitching career. Why is T Boone Pickens donating to the cause? Is he nuts too? I don’t know him, so I can’t vouch for him but often wonder why he’s involved.

    Many are intensely itchy, like my son. He tries his best to live some kind of life as he is young and getting married in the fall but he can’t lay down and sleep more than a couple of hours without waking up intensely itchy. He can’t rest day or night, this is heartbreaking for me as we all need to be able to rest. He’s been to the Cleveland Clinic and tried all the creams and antihistamines they don’t work. He never mentions this disease, we all learn not to.

    We get this disease somehow, so to reassure the public that there is nothing contagious about it is wrong. I wish all the energy trying to make us sound crazy would be spent in assuming for a minute it’s real and what could cause this to happen. If you don’t think I make sense, the man who was pointing to his head about how mentally ill we are has no authority to speak at all. Why was he on fox making judgements like that. Maybe he should listen to those patients he says have come to him for help instead of dismissing them. I read above that it is up to us to prove this exists, but it’s hard to do that when your dismissed. This long overdue report means nothing to me. I read it best I could, but it’s pretty vague and shows no real understanding of this disease. There are many fibers involved and not a cotton fiber that may or may not have come from the environment.

    This disease is not about picking at one’s skin. The lesions are made from what comes out. My sister in law is a pharmacist in Columbus and long before we knew anything about morgellons she told my son that his bumps looked like they came from the inside out. Your all entitled to believe as you wish, but I thought this was a site where people had open minds. There is no disease like this one. The various fibers were compared to all other known fibers by Dr Wymore and none matched. He himself was a skeptic, but to his credit he took a look and realized that this was indeed a real illness.

  79. #79 lilady
    January 28, 2012

    “You will have to overlook my ignorance on some things as I’m not a doctor or a scientist but I lost my innocence that doctors knew everything when my dad got cancer 12 years ago followed by mom with alzheimer’s.”

    Is this the genesis of your distrust of physicians?

    “Mom wouldn’t have had the ability to think she had anything, she just got it like my brother did. He’s a veteran and could probably go to the VA but he chooses not to see anyone about this as we know there is no help. I don’t know how they got it, but the person whom I believe gave it to me was in there home a lot during my father’s illness.”

    Why hasn’t your brother sought help from doctors at the VA?

    Are you now stating that Morgellons disease is communicable?

    “I have no creams nor take antihistamines and never did, nor do I have a dermatologist. I saw one who looked at my skin and talked into his recorder that I had an unknown etiology.”

    I find it incredible that creams and anti-histamines were never prescribed for you by your primary care physician or by a dermatologist. Or, were they prescribed and you did not not take your physician’s advice? Try looking up “histamines”, “histamine blockers” and antihistamines. See Wikipedia “itch” for some simple explanations of what causes “itch” attributed to both physical and mental disorders.

  80. #80 Mary
    January 28, 2012

    I’m treating a patient who complained of worms crawling under his skin for 9 months, while everyone (5 or 6 doctors) dismissed the complaints as delusional — and nobody asked him whether he might just possibly come from an area in Africa where up to 80% of the population has onchocerciasis — i.e. worms crawling under the skin. It is important to remember that the Kaiser study can be generalized to English-speaking Californians but should be applied with great caution to sub-Saharan Africans.

  81. #81 Marilyn
    January 28, 2012

    I’m sorry for the double post, I don’t know how it went through twice and I don’t know how to remove it. I can see that there’s no need for me to post to try to inform anyone of what’s really going on with this disease. I thought someone might be interested. I take care of my mom 24/7 but would be glad if I knew of a scientist who wanted to do a study and was looking for volunteers in my area.

    There is research in Oklahoma by Dr Wymore, but I don’t think it’s well funded. Pickens will match any donation however. I guarantee you the few lesions I have had come from the inside out. This disease has been referred to as a skin disease which is inaccurate. Yes, you see evidence of scratches bumps but this disease causes a lot of harm on the inside as well. My doctor now just can’t understand why my lungs don’t sound clear. Not everyone has a lot of skin symptoms, I don’t nor does anyone in my family. If I were to prove that these fibers are some kind of organism or parasite, then all I need to is rub something oily on my skin and a few would surface and in my case would be black. I could then put them in some water and you could watch them with a magnifying glass swim around. As far as I know, carpet and clothing fibers don’t do that except maybe make a few bubbles as you would put them in water. They don’t seem to need air either as I found several lengthy ones in my shoes in storage and were very much alive. Sounds strange, but then how do you think those of us who have this feel! This is very frightening when it first happens, then you learn to live somehow.

    As I said before, there are many types of fibers. Some are colored some look like clear plastic and are more lengthy. I’ve seen many black fibers over the years come out of my skin which feels like a pinch twisted around in a ball of different colored other fibers. There there are one’s that are black and white but twisted and more common with me. If you spray one with a little vinegar, a milky white worm will emerge which is why this disease was named morgellons.

    I don’t appreciate being told to be good and go to my dermatologist and keep putting my creme on. I stated before, I use no cremes and if a dermatologist even knowingly doesn’t understand what he see’s, then it’s just dermatitis. I used to be naive as well until I found I had something out of the normal and the reaction you get when this happens. I’ll leave you all to your discussion as it seems no one will consider what I say is possible. Good thing I didn’t say anything about any more of what I’ve experienced. I doubt you could handle it. The CDC did a small study in one area of the country with minimal testing and concluded we are mostly drug addicts with mental problems and you should definitely believe them because they’ve never been wrong before!

  82. #82 lilady
    January 28, 2012

    @ Mary: The case you describe is unusual insofar as a group of physicians possibly did not take a full history from the patient, which would include place of birth and travel to areas of the world where parasitic diseases are endemic.

    If the patient was seen in a large medical center that provides care to a diverse immigrant population, then an infectious diseases specialist would have knowledge about tropical parasitic diseases. I worked as a public health nurse in a county with this diverse population. We had physicians on staff and physicians at a number of teaching hospitals, who did diagnose and treat tropical parasitic diseases.

    There is an excellent article about dermatological manifestations and treatment of Morgellons disease available on the internet:

    Delusional Disorders in Dermatology: a Brief Review

  83. #83 Mary
    January 28, 2012

    Our group includes doctors who are familiar with tropical parasitic diseases, but they weren’t the people who were treating our African patient with onchocerciasis.

    I think that the Morgollon’s promoters helped prolong this patient’s discomfort by reinforcing the impression among doctors that people who report creepy-crawlies under their skin are invariably crazy. However, there are millions of people in the world who do have worms crawling under their skin, and we have a duty to stay alert for them.

  84. #84 Matthew Cline
    January 28, 2012

    @Marilyn:

    To repeat what others have said: no one here doubts that you’re suffering from what you say you’re suffering. What’s doubted is that the cause of your symptoms is parasites, or that the fibers you find are coming from inside of the body. That’s what Kaiser Permanente and the CDC were looking for, and what they didn’t find.

  85. #85 Terrie
    January 28, 2012

    As a person who experiences chronic, serious itching as a result of a mental illness, I think I’ve been insulted by both Pseudonym. Anxiety disorders aren’t simple moods or thoughts. They are real physical conditions, which often do have physical symptoms. In fact, Generalized Anxiety Disorder can not be diagnosed without the presence of physical symptoms.

    To imply there MUST be something going on besides a mental illness is insulting to every person with a mental health issue, because you’ve just implied that our diseases aren’t real.

  86. #86 Kimberly
    January 28, 2012

    As someone who just ITCHES, and always has, all the time, I feel for these people. I have dermatographism, allergies to various chemicals, eczema, you name it. Thanks to cleaning oils (I haven’t used regular soap since 1992), Caladryl, antihistamines, and steroid creams, I get through life pretty well. If I were in a situation where nothing stopped the itching, life would be a misery.

    At the same time, if in fact this is a syndrome that is a manifestation of a mental illness such as severe anxiety and depression, the medical community would be doing them a grave disservice by not doing this type of research, or not looking for solutions that are based on fixing the mental issues that are the root cause. As Terrie, among others, have noted, a disease caused by a mental illness is still a REAL disease.

  87. #87 Phoenix Woman
    January 28, 2012

    Tony Mach @ 2:

    Because this just reminds me so much of CFS and Fibromyalgia, where all kinds of explanations were put forward for the increased levels of fatigue and pain in the patients, from “false illness believes” to “central sensitization”. After all, in both CFS and Fibromyalgia there was “no clearly definable physical cause” as well.

    Have you been keeping up with Dr. Frederick Wolfe’s findings?

    Dr. Frederick Wolfe, the director of the National Databank for Rheumatic Diseases and the lead author of the 1990 paper that first defined the diagnostic guidelines for fibromyalgia, says he has become cynical and discouraged about the diagnosis. He now considers the condition a physical response to stress, depression, and economic and social anxiety.

    ”Some of us in those days thought that we had actually identified a disease, which this clearly is not,” Dr. Wolfe said. ”To make people ill, to give them an illness, was the wrong thing.”

  88. #88 epador
    January 28, 2012

    Getting excited about some waste of medical research dollars by Nancy Pelosi ? Its a drop in the bucket to the squandering of taxpayers dollars she is responsible for.

  89. #89 Marilyn
    January 28, 2012

    It’s not that I distrust Drs, it’s that I’ve lost my innocence that they are able to always fix what is wrong or have the knowledge about all illness that exist. The doctor can take my blood but I’ve learned that the lab only looks for things they know about and the rest of the debris which could be important in the diagnosis is ignored and the tests come back as negative.

    I do not know if parasites are the cause of the disease as so far no one knows what the cause is or how to treat it. Did the fibers come first or are they a byproduct. I’ll stick with what I said in the beginning that it makes no sense to me that this report was put out making a point to make us all look like stressed out, skin picking drug addicts. Many are professionals, nurses, doctors, biologists, chemists, celebrities.

    For some who asked, there have been studies done. I mentioned Dr Wymore because of the fibers he sent to the crime lab which were sent to him from people who have morgellons. I’ll repost part here, it’s from Wikipedia.

    “Wymore sent samples of fibers, none of which collected by biopsy, to the Police Crime Lab in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for analysis. A forensic scientist at the Tulsa Police Crime Lab in Oklahoma searched the FBI’s national database, but the Morgellons sample did not match any known fiber in the database.[13] Lab director Mark Boese said the fibers were “consistent with something that the body may be producing,” adding, “These fibers cannot be manmade and do not come from a plant. This could be a byproduct of a biological organism.”

    Did the Kaiser report say if they found any other fibers besides a white cotton one? If not, I have to question there testing methods and if they were trying to find a disease or cover one up. Why do I say this, because I know the disease exists and it wouldn’t be hard at all to prove it. If one of you came to me right now and saw what I see, you probably would question your own sanity as I did at first. I wonder if any of you have actually read what the other side has to say or studies they have done if it’s possible to be unbiased.

  90. #90 Nany
    January 29, 2012

    Dear Marlyn, On behalf of crazy, anxious, depressed, stressed OCD people everywhere, I am insulted that you insist that our diseases and disorders are somehow less real than than yours and that you are somehow too good for the treatments that have made our lives so much better in the last 50 years. Obviously there is a long way to go, but the days of Bedlam and the era of the icepick lobotomy are over.Not one of us wanted to hear we were mentally ill. some insisted we had something else. All of us have “real” disorders and real suffering. You are the one doing us a disservice by dismissing it.

  91. #91 Fred
    January 29, 2012

    @89 Marilyn “I know the disease exists and it wouldn’t be hard at all to prove it. If one of you came to me right now and saw what I see”.

    Perhaps you Marilyn could make arrangements to go to Orac or a someone he recommends for a second opinion?

    It should indeed not be too hard to evidence that you have fibers growing out of your body. I would be willing to accept what he or his colleagues diagnose, would you?

    I’m a bit familiar with some of these so-called LLMDs (Lyme-literate Medical Doctors) and at this point I would welcome all willing physicians to take on this nonsense and put a stop to it once and for all. The LLMDs can make claims about countless pathogens which are undetectable forever, but for them to assert that fibers visible to the naked eye are growing out of their patients bodies should be easy enough to (dis)prove.

    These outbreaks of Morgellons seem to be following a specific set of medical practitioners from Texas to California. It will be interesting if the next outbreak is in the Washington, D.C. area.

    Who else can help settle this Morgellons mystery once and for all?

  92. #92 herr doktor bimler
    January 29, 2012

    Lab director Mark Boese said the fibers were “consistent with something that the body may be producing,” adding, “These fibers cannot be manmade and do not come from a plant. This could be a byproduct of a biological organism.”

    Before placing too much credence on Boese’s conclusions, it is worth noting that he was sacked in 2010 for “incompetence, inefficiency and gross neglect of duty”.

  93. #93 lilady
    January 29, 2012

    @ Fred: Orac is not a dermatologist or a psychiatrist. I’m certain that Marilyn and other patients who claim to have fibers, worms and detritus growing out of their body, have in fact, been referred to dermatologists and/or psychiatrists, yet they do not follow any of the advice about itch relief or seek therapy for their other issues.

    About LLMDs…see my post at # 29 above. See also how Igenex Labs in Palo Alto California is mentioned on all the Morgellons disease blogs. The LLMDs practice quackery based on the false premise of “chronic Lyme disease” and the results of LUATs (Lyme Urine Antigen Tests) performed exclusively by Igenex laboratory.

    Many, (but not enough, IMO) of these LLMDs have lost their licenses because of their “treatment” of “chronic Lyme Disease) with long term IV antibiotics or the so-called “pulsed IV treatment protocol”. Their patients have had septic infections from this prolonged or pulsed IV therapy. Other patients of these LLMDs have undergone HBOTs prescribed and administered by these quacks.

    Yes, these LLMDs have “expanded” their patient base to include Morgellons disease patients…never let it be said that quacks don’t recognize an opportunity to expand their business.

  94. #94 Hmmm
    January 29, 2012

    I am curious about something. When a patient is sick, tests positive for Lyme Disease, does a short course of antibiotics, does not improve, does not undergo a LLMD-approved treatment like long-term IV antiobiotics (or whatever else they recommend), and does not improve, yet still tests positive for Lyme…

    …if ‘Chronic Lyme’ is a false premise, then what term should be used in a case like that?

  95. #95 lilady
    January 29, 2012

    “I am curious about something. When a patient is sick, tests positive for Lyme Disease, does a short course of antibiotics, does not improve, does not undergo a LLMD-approved treatment like long-term IV antiobiotics (or whatever else they recommend), and does not improve, yet still tests positive for Lyme…”

    Hmmm…Are you referring to patients who actually had Lyme disease? Lyme disease is a clinical diagnosis based on history of a tick bite, or living or traveling to a Lyme disease endemic area in addition to a screening (ELISA) blood test to test for antibodies and a “confirmatory” Western Blot blood test. The appearance of a unique expanding rash (erythema migrans) is considered “diagnostic” for the disease and warrants a short course of antibiotics without waiting for the results of a blood test.

    If early symptoms (rash) and flu-like symptoms are not detected by an individual and not treated with oral antibiotics, later symptoms such are joint swelling (knee joint in particular) facial nerve palsy, radicular neuropathy, meningitis and/or 2nd or 3rd degree heart block may appear. Many of these symptoms are treated as well with oral antibiotics, occasionally with a short course of IV antibiotics. The only symptoms that are treated solely with IV antibiotics are central nervous system symptoms and 2nd and 3rd degree heart block. BTW, during all the years I worked in a County Health Department located in a Lyme disease endemic area, I only recall one case of Lyme disease-related heart block which was treated along with the patient’s Lyme meningitis with IV antibiotics. The patient required a temporary cardiac pacemaker and recovered completely after 28 days of IV Rocephen.

    “…if ‘Chronic Lyme’ is a false premise, then what term should be used in a case like that?”

    The term is Post-Treatment Lyme Disease Syndrome. See CDC website:

    Post-Treatment Lyme Disease Syndrome

  96. #96 Fred
    January 29, 2012

    @lilady: I know Orac is not a dermatologist or a psychiatrist, and unfortunately I am intimately familiar with the lab you mention as well as the treatments offered by many LLMDs.

    Looking beyond Marilyn and her unfortunate illness, I hope the results of this Morgellons study will be used as evidence to stop certain medical providers who seem to be intentionally taking advantage of their patients.

    Marilyn opened the door for herself and I would like to see her challenge met. Someone should admit her to a hospital and monitor on camera, in a controlled setting, these creatures she and her physician allege are crawling out of her body. Or will her doctors then assert the creatures are camera shy? I will trust Orac’s hosptial’s opinion – their rooms, their cameras.

    I am tired of these physicians getting away with destroying peoples lives. I challenge the Morgellons specialists to evidence to all who doubt them the existence of these creatures.

    They need to prove it or turn in their medical license forever.

  97. #97 Narad
    January 29, 2012

    if ‘Chronic Lyme’ is a false premise, then what term should be used in a case like that?

    “Not understanding serological testing,” I believe.

  98. #98 Fred
    January 29, 2012

    @92 Some Morgellons experts also have a track record of scientific miscondut, dismissals from University employment and falsifying medical studies. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2007/0312/096.html

    The Morgellons claims of these same experts should be easy enough to evidence or disprove. As a patient, I am asking that the responsible medical community take swift action to accept their claims (doubtful) or stop these practitioners from endangering more lives.

    http://sfappeal.com/news/2012/01/sf-doctor-cries-foul-on-cdc-report-suggesting-skin-disease-is-imaginary.php

    http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/health/entries/2012/01/26/no_known_medical_cause_for_ick.html

    “Raphael B. Stricker, M.D., University of California at San Francisco.
    An investigation conducted by the University found that Dr. Stricker falsified data for a manuscript and a PHS-supported publication reporting research on AIDS.

    In the manuscript, Dr. Stricker selectively suppressed data that did not support his hypothesis, and reported consistently positive data whereas only one of four experiments had produced positive results. In the publication, Dr. Stricker reported that an antibody was found in 29 of 30 homosexuals, but not found in non-homosexuals.”

    See footnote #28 at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct#cite_note-27

  99. #99 Fred
    January 29, 2012

    @92 Some Morgellons experts also have a track record of scientific misconduct, dismissals from University employment and falsifying medical studies.

    The Morgellons claims of these same experts should be easy enough to evidence or disprove. As a patient, I am asking that the responsible medical community take swift action to accept their claims (doubtful) or stop these practitioners from endangering more lives.

    *ttp://sfappeal.com/news/2012/01/sf-doctor-cries-foul-on-cdc-report-suggesting-skin-disease-is-imaginary.php

    *ttp://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/health/entries/2012/01/26/no_known_medical_cause_for_ick.html

    “Raphael B. Stricker, M.D., University of California at San Francisco.
    An investigation conducted by the University found that Dr. Stricker falsified data for a manuscript and a PHS-supported publication reporting research on AIDS.

    In the manuscript, Dr. Stricker selectively suppressed data that did not support his hypothesis, and reported consistently positive data whereas only one of four experiments had produced positive results. In the publication, Dr. Stricker reported that an antibody was found in 29 of 30 homosexuals, but not found in non-homosexuals.”

    See footnote #28 at: *ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct#cite_note-27

    (My comment did not post yet. In case it is due to the links as being possible spam, I have replaced the “h” of “http” with an “*”. )

  100. #100 Pseudonym
    January 29, 2012

    It makes it hard to determine if chronic borelliosis exists in the clinical setting when all we have are two tests Lyme Disease. It’s already known that the ELISA can’t detect certain strains of B. Burgdorferi. The C6-Peptide kit from Immunetics is a step forward, but a non-species dependent ELISA would probably be a more useful diagnostic tool.

    And the western blot has issues too. You can send the samples drawn at the same time to Labcorp/Quest, Universities, and alternative labs and get completely different quite different results from each lab. Igenex and Stony Brook tend to produce a lot of positives for example.

    And some strains are more much more neurological/cardiac than joint and don’t necessarily leave a typical EM rash. And some strains (as documented in medical literature) don’t show up in serological testing either. This is the case for a couple European strains. I think it’s reasonable to believe that as more strains are discovered (which they are), there will be more strains that are recognized to be a “seronegative” strain.

    Furthermore, the screening tests were designed for surveillance purposes. High sensitivity/specificity of these tests is reported in mainstream literature, but this data is misleading for too many reasons to explain.

    However, patients that report chronic Lyme symptoms may not have the infection (even if they meet most of the symptom checklist). However, they may have high titers to any combination of bacteria and viruses like HHV-6, EBV, HCMV, Parvovirus B19, C. Pneuomoniae, mycplasma pneumoniae, mycoplasma fermantans, and more. In this case, it may be more likely the patient is suffering from CFS. Not all patients will turn up high titers, but you’ll often find these patients have pathologically low sed rates and hypercoagulation which can aid in diagnosis. A few CFS patients do turn up positive antibodies to Lyme disease through standard testing, so it is my belief that you can have CFS and Lyme disease together. CFS patients often don’t like this diagnosis because the label doesn’t describe the disease.

    Treating CFS is another story. It’s not clear how to treat it, and it’s not really clear how some patients recover. Patients with high titers to HHV-6 can respond well to Valcyte.

    So my point is to keep an open mind, and treat patients like human beings. Just because they think they have chronic Lyme disease and don’t, does not mean you should lecture them on how it dosn’t exist, tell them they need to see a psychiatrist, and kick them out of your office. More often than not, when you dig deeper, you will find that these patients that have been to 20+ doctors are really suffering. Sure, they may have psychiatric symptoms that need to be addressed with antidepressants or anti-anxiety medications from the illness and stress, but this doesn’t mean they are just suffering from a mental illness. Unfortunately, with the short appointments you commonly see today, this may not be easy to do, and the patient is once again left out in the cold to suffer.

  101. #101 Eldest Brother
    January 29, 2012

    The Morgellons enigma mystifies orthodox science. Dis-eases and dis-comforts of the body which orthodox medical science cannot answer are called illnesses “that exist only in patients’ minds”.
    However, one should be aware science cannot tell us where our Awareness goes when we sleep, or why some people get certain diseases and others don’t. Medical science is good for bullet wounds and placing casts on broken bones.
    Science knows almost nothing about the mind-brain-body connection. Thus, any disease they cannot understand, they say is “in the patient’s mind”. Yet science hasn’t studied the mind, they have only studied the brain. Their lack of True Knowledge means they can only treat dis-eases or dis-comforts of the body with chemical pills.
    As the secret underground Desposyni Church ’s last Eldest Brother, I have access to 10,000 years of records that contain the mysteries of the brain and DNA, as well as the history of our universe and solar system.
    Our 1,981 year long vow of silence has ended. We can now say these ancient records contain a series of healing techniques that can cure all human body diseases. The same healing techniques that have been curing cancer people of cancer can cure Morgellons.
    The Desposyni Church http://www.DesposyniChurch.org was founded 1,982 years ago by the 6th Chosen One of our 8,000 year Lions of Jud-Ah lineage of healers and teachers. JBP, or the one people call Jesus, was also the 8th Chosen One of our 10,000 year old lineage.

  102. #102 dt
    January 30, 2012

    As to the issue of MDs who appear to “go along” with patients’ notions they have an illness such as chronic Lyme, Morgellon’s fibromyalgia and the like, I think there is a spectrum.

    Some of these general MDs want to genuinely help their patients and avoid open confrontation since this may just make matters worse and drive the patient further out of the reach of medical care. The MDs don’t wish to give the appearance of dismissing patients symptoms, while still harboring a nagging thought at the back of their mind – what if I am wrong and the patient is right? These MDs may be convinced the patient’s illness is entirely delusional, but I know that they may couch their assessment of the patient in much more flattering terms to them, and that they want to try and work around diagnostic labels and still find a way to relieve patient’s symptoms as a means to an end – helping the patient.

    At the other end of this spectrum are the quacks who are in it purely out of self interest (financial or self promotional). They set themselves up as experts in the condition, which to patients means that no-one else comes close to having expertise in their symptoms, ensuring a culture of patient dependency and exploitation. They overdiagnose the disease (ie they confirm that everyone [without exception] who comes to them with a suspected diagnosis of whichever disease it is they think they have definitely “has” the disease). They send patients off for invalid, quack tests to prove their illness is real (these are always positive). They usually have their own pet cures and nostrums, and hope the placebo effect helps some patients who will then give them glowing testimonials. They perpetuate the patient’s sick role, and the patient gains no insight into their symptoms, nor gets proper assessment or management, merely exploitation.

  103. #103 Fred
    January 30, 2012

    The Morgellons diagnosis should be easy enough to evidence in a controlled environment. Dr. Stricker and Ginger Savely claim that their patients have these creatures crawling out of their bodies – visible to the naked eye. There should be absolutely no reason why such claims cannot be quickly and easily evidenced. Really, how hard can it be and how much must something so seemingly simple to (dis)prove cost?

    These claims are on a different level than their chronic Lyme disease opinions. This time they are outright claiming these creatures are readily visible, no hiding, no cyst or biofilms blocking their presence.

    The responsible medical professionals need to challenge their claims and put an end to this controversy. If they are indeed quacks feeding or creating paranoid delusions in patients, then these quacks must be stopped – charge them, prosecute them and let their ass rot in jail for such gregarious acts of patient exploitation.

  104. #104 MI Dawn
    January 30, 2012

    While I have the greatest sympathy for those with chronic illness (several of my friends have CFS and/or fibromyalgia, having been diagnosed by reliable physicians), I have no patience for those who simply decide they are sick (and no, I don’t mean those who have Morgellon’s or any other syndrome). I still recall a woman who insisted that she got Lyme disease from mosquitoes while on a Caribbean vacation, sexually transmitted it to her husband and also gave it to her child prenatally. She was livid at the doctors who refused to give her baby long term IV antibiotics. At last record (and it’s been several years since I saw her documents) she and her husband had undergone 6 years!!!!! of long term pulsed IV antibiotics (paying cash since insurance wouldn’t cover it) and was fighting for the care of her child, who had been removed from her care due to the antibiotic abuse and placed into the care of grandparents for all health care needs. It was a very sad situation.

  105. #105 Terrie
    January 30, 2012

    Ever notice how it’s never enough for the woo types to have access to treatment that alleviates symptoms, or manages an issue. There must always be a ROOT CAUSE, and if they can determine the ROOT CAUSE, then they make the issue go away.

  106. #106 Anton P. Nym
    January 30, 2012

    #101; please be a Poe. Please. My sanity begs…

    — Steve

  107. #107 lilady
    January 30, 2012

    @ pseudonym: The sensitivity for Lyme ELISA tests is high…that is why a positive ELISA specimen is automatically tested using the Western Blot for its high specificity. The LUAT performed at Igenex laboratory is a bogus test, as is Lyme serum PCR test developed by Dr. Lee…he of most recent infamy for his claim to have developed Serum rDNA PCR tests for the presence of HPV virus in the serum of girls who received HPV vaccine. See:

    Oh, no! There’s DNA in my Gardasil! Or is there (RI September 6, 2011)

    There are many more blood tests performed during a work-up for Lyme disease, such as RF (Rheumatoid Factor) Sed Rate, etc. The diagnosis of Lyme meningitis is considered with paired serum-spinal fluid submitted for ELISA testing…along with pleocytosis in spinal fluid.

    A group of “supposed chronic Lyme disease patients and their doctors”, convinced the attorney general in Connecticut that the IDSA (Infectious Disease Society of America) Guidelines for Treatment of Lyme Disease was wrong and that it impaired their ability to have insurance companies reimburse them for treatment of “so-called chronic Lyme disease”. The IDSA Guidelines for Treatment are somewhat different that Lyme disease Surveillance Case Criteria. Attorney General Richard Blumenthal used his office to bring suit against the IDSA, and an independent panel was convened. See:

    Final Report of the Lyme Disease Review Panel of the Infectious Disease Society of America (IDSA)

    It is a rather extensive review and extensive report. The IDSA Guideline for treatment of Lyme Disease, following the report from the independent committee remains in place and remains as the gold standard for treatment of Lyme disease.

    The committee during its deliberations, determined that “chronic Lyme disease” is a bogus diagnosis, the existing blood, spinal fluid and synovial fluid laboratory tests are the only valid laboratory tests to confirm the presence of Lyme disease and to monitor the treatment of Lyme disease. The committee also confirmed that prolonged IV treatment or pulse IV Treatment…the so-called Burrascano protocol is not valid and is dangerous, HBOT and other CAM/alt treatments are useless and dangerous.

    What more proof would “chronic Lyme disease patients” and their doctors require to prove that their “theories” and “treatments” are pseudoscience, voodoo medicine and totally bogus?

  108. #108 llilady
    January 30, 2012

    @ MI Dawn: Many of these same issues (Morgellons diseases, “chronic Lyme disease” and Munchausen-By-Proxy Syndrome that you discussed in your post, have been addressed on the Science-Based Medicine blog:

    “Fake disease, false compassion” Peter Lipson (PalMD) October 13, 2008

    I have a rather long post about the IDSA Lyme Disease Treatment Guidelines and the clinical diagnosis/treatment of Lyme disease that is stuck in “moderation”.

  109. #109 herr doktor bimler
    January 30, 2012

    I know the disease exists and it wouldn’t be hard at all to prove it.

    This always seems to translate into “I want someone else to do the work”.

  110. #110 Tina B
    January 30, 2012

    @87 http://www.hindawi.com/journals/prt/2012/585419/
    OT somewhat, but I’d hate to have to do battle all over again, it took me years to have a name for all of the problems I was experiencing. No wonder people turn to the dark side of woo and quackery There are numerous good studies on fibromyalgia. It’s also not surprising that people with chronic conditions want to know the cause. Often ‘management’ of a condition is insufficient to ameliorate suffering and pain.
    Thanks to all the people who differentiate between a real condition and the delusional aspects of the disorder tagged Morgellan’s. Many posters here have failed to do that and it’s an important distinction.

  111. #111 Fred
    January 30, 2012

    @MI Dawn: In general, I don’t think anyone simply “decides” to be sick, as in “wants” to be sick, regardless of the real cause of their symptoms (psychological or otherwise). People want to feel well, some people, however, have mental or physical limitations that interfere with having a healthy lifestyle and outlook.

    Oftentimes, the cause of a patient’s symptoms are overlooked by numerous physicians. When patients get readily or rudely dismissed, it is understandable that they seek relief elsewhere. Part of the problem is that this search for wellness all too often leads them to the offices of bogus providers who make lots of false promises and are quite skilled at selling hope for a heck of a lot of money.

    When people become confused, desperate for help and in pain, they become willing to try almost anything to gain relief. If you were to put me on the medication and herb regimen some of these LLMDs prescribe, even I’d likely be seeing worms crawling out of my body within no time. If physicians would stop throwing cocktails of drugs at their patients I bet a lot of these mysterious illnesses would resolve.

  112. #112 adelady
    January 30, 2012

    “The Morgellons diagnosis should be easy enough to evidence in a controlled environment. Dr. Stricker and Ginger Savely claim that their patients have these creatures crawling out of their bodies – visible to the naked eye. ”

    And not one of these people apparently owns a phone or a video camera capable of recording such events. Maybe a zoom facility? Even an ordinary camera would be a start.

  113. #113 elburto
    January 31, 2012

    Tina B- scroll up a few comments until you see one by Phoenix Woman.

    There is no such disease. The doctor who named the problem “fibromyalgia” did so because he thought that giving this nebulous (and psychosomatic) “syndrome” a scientific, physical-sounding name, that the patients would more readily take up treatment for it, and get on with their lives.

    So resistant are certain people to the idea that psychiatric disorders are real, and painful and limiting, that any hint that they too may have a psych disorder is met with “I’m REALLY ill, I’m not CRAZY!”. Not only are these people (see the morgie Marilyn who has refused any prescribed medication or ointment, because she “knows” they won’t help, she “knows” it’s parasites) setting back their own treatment and recovery, they’re stigmatising and judging anyone with a psychiatric illness that causes them pain, anything from depression to schizophrenia. It’s disgusting, it’s ableist, and definitely a case of “Cutting off your nose to spite your face”.

    That’s how “fibromyalgia” came to be invented. A label to pin on patients with somatisation disorders who were totally resistant to psych diagnoses, with one test, a test that would produce positive results on virtually any human being, the “pressure point test”. A test where the diagnosing physician is instructed to jab at certain areas of the body with so much force that their fingernails blanch. Ouch.

    So now, the inventor of “fibromyalgia” will talk to anyone who will listen about delisting it, about getting rid of the stigma about mental illness, rather than giving certain mental illnesses special names that make them sound physical, about educating patients rather than encouraging false belief systems. He believed his made up diagnosis would die out with his recovered patients, but instead it has become a folie d’internet, a “madness of the information age”, spread from messageboard, to forum, to support group memetically.

    Phoenix Woman – have you noticed that mentioning his name has one of two effects? Either the person claiming “disease X must be real, because it used to be said that fibromyalgia wasn’t real!” will disappear, OR it causes a sort of word blindness, whereby posters pretend the bad words were never said, that there’s no way they are “crazy”.

  114. #114 Tanya
    February 1, 2012

    Delusional parasitosis? How can that be? I have it, and I KNOW I don’t have parasites or “body bugs”, nor do I have any lesions/sores.

    The reason the mainstream medical establishment is presenting Morgellon’s as a mental illness is because the truth is it is MANMADE self-assembling, self-replicating nanotech that is literally genetically modifying the entire human species. See the work of Clifford Carnicom, for starters.

    The nano particles responsible for Morgellon’s are so pervasive in the environment that it would be impossible not to have this in your system. This is the big coverup and this is why they are trying to make us look crazy.

    You people who are not sick and are not seeing fibers are only “well” because your bodies are not rejecting this material, which has been found to be made up of cellulose, polyethylene and silicone among other things.

    I just wrote an article which I have posted on my blog entitled “Why Morgellon’s Should (But WON’T) Be The Top News Story of 2012″, which you can find on my blog, stopgeoengineering.com. I will be adding references tomorrow but in the meantime, have a look at Carnicom’s work on Morgellon’s, as well as the research of Dr. Hildegarde Staninger.

    Oh and hey, if anyone doesn’t believe me, contact me via my blog and I will happily send you some of this imaginary fiber from my mind that has been oozing out of my skin every day and you can decide for yourself whether you think it’s just clothing fibers. I actually thought (hoped!) at first it might be towel fibers, since I see most of them after a hot bath. Then I started air-drying and by gum they’re still there!

    Something else I’d like to point out is the “visitors” page on Clifford Carnicom’s website (a link is located near the bottom of his articles page at carnicominstitute.com) where he publishes his research on Morgellon’s, chemtrails/geoengineering and the connection between the two.

    Considering that the establishment would like us to believe that chemtrails are an unfounded conspiracy theory, or hoax, and that Morgellon’s is a delusion, it is interesting that Boeing, the Pentagon, various defense contractors, various arms of the US army and navy, NASA, Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb and other pharmaceutical companies, Monsanto, the Mayo Clinic, Kaiser Permanente, the US senate and numerous other such organisations have all visited Carnicom’s website. Many are repeat visitors, with Boeing having visited the site no less than 100 times!

    You would think if the guy was as crazy as they make him out to be, all these important visitors wouldn’t give him the time of day. His work has attracted a lot of attention from people in high places and I think it’s because Clifford’s work is valid and threatens their agenda.

  115. #115 alison
    February 1, 2012

    Hmmm, that’s an interesting website: cycling, tax relief, alien photos & area 51….

    Tanya, step back & think carefully about what you’re saying here. My humble little blog (with a focus on evolution & biology education, & critical thinking) gets regular visits from folks who appear to come from the US military, some pharmaceutical companies, etc. I strongly doubt this is because the military or the companies are ‘professionally’ interested in what I have to say – more likely, some of their employees read it for fun or edification. Certainly I’ve been a repeat visitor to a number of ‘woo’ websites – & it’s not because I take what they say seriously! It’s just that they’re such good blog fodder. I may have to add Mr Carnicom’s site to my list…

    The other thing is, have you considered how many people would have to be in on this conspiracy that you’re spinning? How likely is it, really, that they’d all keep quiet about it? Really?

  116. #116 Tanya
    February 1, 2012

    I’m a little confused Alison. Are you sure you’re referring to Carnicom’s website? “cycling, tax relief, alien photos & area 51….”. I don’t see any of that on his site, which is dedicated to geoengineering and Morgellon’s research. You wouldn’t be trying to deter people from checking it out, would you?

  117. #117 TBruce
    February 1, 2012

    You wouldn’t be trying to deter people from checking it out, would you?

    Alison’s obviously part of the conspiracy!!!

    BTW, a link to Carnicom’s site would have been very helpful, but you didn’t provide one.

    You wouldn’t be trying to deter people from checking it out, would you?

  118. #118 W. Kevin Vicklund
    February 1, 2012

    Hey, Tanya, I think you gave us the wrong address for Carnicom’s website, because when I copy-paste it into my browser (since you failed to actually link it), I go to a site that looks like what alison described, rather than the site you described.

  119. #119 lilady
    February 1, 2012

    I too visited the Cornicom website…located at Cornicon Institute.org

    Under the “Research-Search” section I found exactly what Alison found.

    Where is this “institute” actually located Tanya? They are a not for profit charitable organization, with no address, aside from a postal box. It must be a huge postal box that accommodates an “institute”.

  120. #120 Calli Arcale
    February 1, 2012

    “Considering that the establishment would like us to believe that chemtrails are an unfounded conspiracy theory, or hoax, and that Morgellon’s is a delusion, it is interesting that Boeing, the Pentagon, various defense contractors, various arms of the US army and navy, NASA, Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb and other pharmaceutical companies, Monsanto, the Mayo Clinic, Kaiser Permanente, the US senate and numerous other such organisations have all visited Carnicom’s website. Many are repeat visitors, with Boeing having visited the site no less than 100 times!”

    Tanya, perhaps you don’t know the technical details of how the Internet works, but tracking the IP addresses of visitors to a site is less revealing than you apparently think.

    Let’s take your example of “Boeing having visited the site no less than 100 times!” Boeing is a large corporation. According to Wikipedia, they employ a total of 164,545 people. (Note: this figure is likely not accurate to that degree of precision; a company of this size will constantly be hiring somewhere.) Like most corporations, it probably allows at least some access to the Internet from its facilities. (If it’s smart, it probably blacklists known naughty sites, known virus sources, and quite possibly also notorious bandwidth-wasters such as streaming media sites.) It would be unsurprising if a handful of Boeing employees occasionally visited Mr Carnicom’s website, given the sheer size of the organization. The odds are boosted given that in an organization of that size, there are bound to be some kooks who would find a site such as that particularly appealing. You mentioned repeat visitors; assuming you actually know they’re the same visitor and not merely someone else within the same organization (which can be difficult to tell if they’re within a corporate LAN, as you can have a hundred people appearing to have the same IP), this would actually make the claim even less interesting; you need to be sure you’re actually looking at unique visitors rather than just the multiple requests required to serve up a website for the duration of somebody’s session. 100 times isn’t even all that impressive, really, and since that’s the only one you had an actual number for, I’m guessing that was the biggest number, which suggests the rest are even less impressive.

    Another problem is that it really doesn’t tell you anything about *why* they’re visiting. Coast to Coast has a lot of listeners who tune in for the laffs, not because they actually believe in chemtrails and things like that. Honestly, if “people from organization X visited website Y” is your best evidence of a conspiracy where organization X is involved in whatever website Y is discussing, then you probably need to reexamine whether your position is worth holding.

    Let me put it this way: if I go visit that website, my company’s name will show up in the site logs, because they own the IP address I’m currently using. Will you then conclude they must be in on the conspiracy? That would be rather convenient, wouldn’t it? To create the evidence you present, all you need to do is post things like what you just posted.

  121. #121 madder
    February 1, 2012

    Alison, TBruce, W. Kevin Vicklund, and lilady– You’re all deluded. The fibers are real, and the “cycling, tax relief, alien photos & area 51″ goodies aren’t. The nano-thingies have messed with your minds too much for you to see the truth, and your efforts to deter people from checking it out will ultimately be foiled.

    It’s all clear to me now, because a new weather system brought very dry air to my area today. The dry air and my new orgone generator stymied Boeing’s efforts to make chemtrails here. No chemtrails means no mind control, and now their nefarious plots are laid bare to me and my powerful aluminum-laminate helmet.

  122. #122 Tanya
    February 1, 2012

    D’oh! Morgellon’s fuzz-brain strikes again! The site I meant to refer you to was carnicominstitute.org, .com is just one of those generic sites people register to generate ad revenue. I assure you there is nothing on the .org site about area 51, aliens, etc.

    Anyways, here’s another article that might be of interest to you entitled “CDC calls Morgellons’ nanoworms a delusion, protects DARPA” (http://www.activistpost.com/2012/01/cdc-calls-morgellons-nanoworms-delusion.html)

    Here is the link to Clifford’s articles http://www.carnicominstitute.org/html/articles_by_date.html
    and visitor’s page
    http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/visitors.htm

    I apologize for not providing links. I’ve been tring to take advantage of the hundreds of new articles out on this study and have a copy & paste comment that I use. Some of the news sites comments sections don’t allow links, so I added what I thought at, like, 4am my time was his address. Not usually up so late and my brain isn’t performing optimally at the best of times, anyway, due to the Morgellon’s. Sorry for the mixup.

  123. #123 Ken
    February 1, 2012

    Those last several comments are valuable evidence that no matter how bad a case of Morgellon’s is, it can become far worse if untreated.

  124. #124 Fred
    February 1, 2012

    @Tanya: “Oh and hey, if anyone doesn’t believe me, contact me via my blog and I will happily send you some of this imaginary fiber from my mind that has been oozing out of my skin every day and you can decide for yourself whether you think it’s just clothing fibers.”

    Tanya, what I request is not that you mail anyone a sample of your fibers, but that you either go on a reputable national television show (20/20, Frontline, Diane Sawyer Primetime, whatever, or arrange with a reputable hospital a week-long stay so that someone other than yourself or your LLMDs can document on camera, via a live video feed, these creatures crawling out of your body.

    Why won’t you do that? Surely, if you did this, it would help prove to us all that these fibers are growing out of your body.

    This is why I asked Orac for help. (I know he is not ‘this’ kind of doctor). Tanya, you need to show solid evidence, and the opinion of ILADS or Stricker and Savely are not solid, “reputable” evidence.

    What are you afraid of, Tanya? What are THEY afraid of? Don’t want anyone in on your big secret?

    If ever I had any doubt as to the integrity of ILADS, Stricker’s founding organization, it is gone now. What a joke…medical exploitation at its finest. Have they no shame, no ethics?

  125. #125 Narad
    February 1, 2012

    I assure you there is nothing on the .org site about area 51, aliens, etc.

    I think the HAARP angle is more than enough, thanks.

  126. #126 Fred
    February 1, 2012

    @Tanya: I strongly suggest that you never shine a blacklight in your kitchen or bathroom. There are all sorts of ‘creatures’ there just waiting to be seen…

    Try shifting your attention to something else for a while, and stay away from the LLMDs, as well as their special herbs and drug cocktails – maybe the creatures will then retreat.

  127. #127 bo macdonald
    February 2, 2012

    This is pure establishment BULLSHIT, fostered by moronic self imposed Gods who hate to admit they have no clue on how to deal with it. How could any thinking person truly believe that millions of people would experience identical symptoms by delusion.

  128. #128 Chris
    February 2, 2012

    So, Mr. or Ms. MacDonald, you found it too difficult to actually read the article, but were compelled to post a fact-free rant anyway?

  129. #129 TBruce
    February 2, 2012

    How could any thinking person truly believe that millions of people would experience identical symptoms by delusion.

    There are buildings all over the world that hold millions of people experiencing identical delusions. They are called “churches”.

  130. #130 madder
    February 2, 2012

    Popular shared delusions are impossible? Hmmm, let’s check the literature. Oh look, here’s Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, by Charles Mackay, first published in 1841.

    It’s almost as if these sufferers shared some sort of magical worldwide system for instantaneous communication or something.

  131. #131 Beamup
    February 2, 2012

    For that matter, let’s observe that the symptoms lumped under “Morgellon’s” are not uniform. Some characteristics are similar, but there’s a lot of variability. And even the most pessimistic estimates I’ve heard for prevalence fall well short of “millions.”

  132. #132 lilady
    February 2, 2012

    “How could any thinking person truly believe that millions of people would experience identical symptoms by delusion.”

    First of all…”bo macdonald” has to prove to us that he/she is a “thinking person”.

  133. #133 Anton P. Nym
    February 2, 2012

    This is pure establishment BULLSHIT, fostered by moronic self imposed Gods who hate to admit they have no clue on how to deal with it.

    Whereas I’d put it that it is the delusion of “morgellons” (seriously ’50s B-movie vibe, no?) that is the product of those who have no clue how to deal with the problem. The studies I’ve read are saying, “damfweknow what’s causing this, but it’s not parasites.”

    How could any thinking person truly believe that millions of people would experience identical symptoms by delusion.

    Addicts in the throes of the DTs have been having the same delusion (“Bugs! Bugs all over me!”) for centuries. Now I’m not saying that “Morgellons” is the DTs, because that’s not supported by the evidence… but because other people in the past have demonstrably had their nervous systems misfire and come to similar conclusions should point out that it’s at least possible to be an internal condition having nothing to do with parasites.

    — Steve

  134. #134 Tanya
    February 2, 2012

    It seems as though some of you are under the impression that I’m out to prove something. Even if I had more time/energy to attempt to, I am a disabled, stay-at-home mom, not a scientist or MD.

    My intent here is simply to share information and encourage people to check it out and decide for themselves. If you search YouTube, you can find numerous videos of the fibers. Some are questionable, but there is actual footage of these fibers emerging from intact skin. The fibers are tricky to film, as they are typically extremely fine and cannot easily be seen under normal lighting conditions.

    I have done some filming, which you are welcome to check out on my YouTube channel, screwedworldorder, none of which I would say proves the existence of Morgellon’s, but it is proof that what I’m seeing isn’t all in my head.

    Watch my video “AMAZING!! “Dancing” Morgellon’s Nano Fiber – Reacts to Music?”. Around 8 minutes and 35 seconds, as the music on my TV gets louder, the little beast really starts flipping out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRRLCuWSMuw

    Note the twisting and bending movement. This is not the result of a passing breeze. The way the fibers move, in my opinion, can be described as both robotic and serpent-like.

    I believe this fiber was particulary active due to high humidity, as I have noticed the fibers are much less motile when dry.

    The couple of times I was able to capture the fibers on film, it was indoors, with extremely bright light and a dark backdrop. I am actually planning another film which will not only serve as evidence that the fibers do not come from clothing or textiles, but also as a self-test for Morgellon’s.

    The process I will be filming involves soaking my hands in hot water with certain additives I have found useful in drawing out the fibers, thoroughly rinsing my hands under running water to remove any debris, then allowing my hands to air-dry under bright light.

    There is some preparation necessary, and for sanity-preservation purposes, I really need to pace myself with this stuff As important as all of this is, if I become too focussed on Morgellon’s I become overwhelmed with anxiety and then I’m useless.

    Morgellon’s absolutely DOES affect our mental health, though not in the way the CDC would have us believe, so it’s important for us Morgies to take especially good care of ourselves. I make every effort to balance activism with gardening, art, photography, my family and other things that are meaninful to me. I am also dealing with post-traumatic stress, so I need to take things extra easy.

    Anyways, enough with excuses, I am going to do my very best to have it up within the next 3 weeks. It will be called “Hey CDC, Debunk THIS!”. Watch for it. If they still allow comments on this article when it’s finished, I’ll provide a link.
    <3

  135. #135 Fred
    February 2, 2012

    These patients are seeing licensed medical doctors, so-called LLMDs that are examining their fibers and diagnosing them as Morgellons. These doctors are feeding the delusions and fears of the patients. In fact, it seems these doctors are creating the delusions.

    See the following PubMed article. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3047951/

    The concentration of Morgellons was in Texas and California. This is coincidentally where these two LLMDs practice. The one has since relocated from Texas to the more ‘endemic’ California area, and more recently relocated again to Washington, DC.

    How can these two medical professionals examine their patients, inspect their black, red, blue and “twisted” fibers, along with the ulcers and other skin lacerations on these patients and diagnose them as having mysterious creatures living and crawling around inside their body, eventually gnawing their way out? Yet, the $600,000 CDC study which analyzed patient fibers basically came up with carpet lint, not alien organisms.

    Aside from whatever ails these patients, it is inherently wrong, seemingly criminal, that the doctor seems to be intentionally diagnosing these carpet fibers as foreign creatures. It is creates fear and hysteria in an already vulnerable patient population.

    Despite this study and after personally examining the red and black twisted fibers for himself, this doctor is still asserting that “The people who say it’s delusional are going to look very, very stupid when the evidence comes out,” he said.”

    http://sfappeal.com/news/2012/01/sf-doctor-cries-foul-on-cdc-report-suggesting-skin-disease-is-imaginary.php

  136. #136 Tanya
    February 2, 2012

    Hey mods, is there a problem? Twice I’ve attempted to submit a comment which, to the best of my knowledge, doesn’t violate any rules and is relevant to the topic, especially in light of the fact that I am a Morgellon’s sufferer, and my post appears to have been censored. Curious as to why? Am I not supposed to post links now?

    Below is a copy of my post with the url removed. Hopefully it meets your standards, if not, would you mind sending me a brief email explaining why you decided to censor my opinions? Thanks, Tanya (no relation to bo):

    ****************************************************

    It seems as though some of you are under the impression that I’m out to prove something. Even if I had more time/energy to attempt to, I am a disabled, stay-at-home mom, not a scientist or MD.

    My intent here is simply to share information and encourage people to check it out and decide for themselves. If you search YouTube, you can find numerous videos of the fibers. Some are questionable, but there is actual footage of these fibers emerging from intact skin. The fibers are tricky to film, as they are typically extremely fine and cannot easily be seen under normal lighting conditions.

    I have done some filming, which you are welcome to check out on my YouTube channel, screwedworldorder, none of which I would say proves the existence of Morgellon’s, but it is proof that what I’m seeing isn’t all in my head.

    Watch my video “AMAZING!! “Dancing” Morgellon’s Nano Fiber – Reacts to Music?”. Around 8 minutes and 35 seconds, as the music on my TV gets louder, the little beast really starts flipping out!

    Note the twisting and bending movement. This is not the result of a passing breeze. The way the fibers move, in my opinion, can be described as both robotic and serpent-like.

    I believe this fiber was particulary active due to high humidity, as I have noticed the fibers are much less motile when dry.

    The couple of times I was able to capture the fibers on film, it was indoors, with extremely bright light and a dark backdrop. I am actually planning another film which will not only serve as evidence that the fibers do not come from clothing or textiles, but also as a self-test for Morgellon’s.

    The process I will be filming involves soaking my hands in hot water with certain additives I have found useful in drawing out the fibers, thoroughly rinsing my hands under running water to remove any debris, then allowing my hands to air-dry under bright light.

    There is some preparation necessary, and for sanity-preservation purposes, I really need to pace myself with this stuff. As important as all of this is, if I become too focussed on Morgellon’s I become overwhelmed with anxiety and then I’m useless.

    Morgellon’s absolutely DOES affect our mental health, though not in the way the CDC would have us believe, so it’s important for us Morgies to take especially good care of ourselves. I make every effort to balance activism with gardening, art, photography, my family and other things that are meaninful to me. I am also dealing with post-traumatic stress, so I need to take things extra easy.

    Anyways, enough with excuses, I am going to do my very best to have it up within the next 3 weeks. It will be called “Hey CDC, Debunk THIS!”. Watch for it. If they still allow comments on this article when it’s finished, I’ll provide a link.

  137. #137 Laura
    February 2, 2012

    I’ve had almost all the Morgellon’s symptoms from delayed food allergies.
    Itching- yes, sometimes intensely, although the really intense itching was from 3 strawberries, and strawberries have a lot of histamine, which I think might have been part of the cause in that case.
    Skin lesions – yes, I’ve had hives from food.
    No feelings of crawling, or fibers or granules on my skin. But celiac disease is associated with skin problems of various kinds, and crawling feelings might be a variation on itching.
    Fatigue – very much so
    Short-term memory loss – very much so
    Obsessive-Compulsive – yes, I used to feel compulsive about paying attention to some things
    Impaired thought processing (brain fog) – main symptom of delayed food allergies
    Depression and feelings of isolation – I stopped going through some intense depressive states after quitting foods I had these delayed allergies to. I also felt depressed after food challenges from some foods I had allergies to, but mostly in a general way I noticed after several months or a year that I wasn’t having those spells of despair any more.
    I also got a lot more engaged in casual conversations.
    It makes me wonder if these Morgellon’s people might be gluten sensitive or food sensitive, because it can have a lot of psychological and neurological effects, as well as the symptoms of inflammation.

  138. #138 Laura
    February 3, 2012

    There’s a huge amount that isn’t known about allergies and autoimmune diseases, and a lot of these vague syndromes have symptoms in common that suggest an immune problem. I’ve heard that fatigue, brain fog – both the problem with thinking and the change of consciousness that gets called brain fog – are hallmarks of immune problems.
    I found out recently that there’s lots of evidence that people can have local allergies without systemic allergies. Allergies had been thought to necessarily involve the lymph nodes, but there’s lymphoid tissue in various mucous membranes like the nose, gut, lungs that takes part in generating allergy that’s contained in a specific organ. See for example the review article Entopy: Local allergy paradigm and a continuing medical education course on local allergies in the nose.
    It means that a lot of illness that’s currently thought to be nonallergic, is actually due to allergies that don’t show up on standard tests.

  139. #139 Fred
    February 3, 2012

    I also have many of the same Morgellons symptoms, but they are caused by delayed food ‘allergies’. Certain foods that I eat cause my eczema to flare within hours after ingesting them, all dairy and fruit products are the worst, even plain sparkling water. Other foods like citrus, vinegar, tomatoes, and wine cause me to be excessively thirsty and make my skin feel uncomfortably dry within 20 minutes after eating. An ‘apple a day’ would sent me to an ER within a week or two.

    I do not test as extremely allergic to these foods on any allergy test, and skin testing reveals welts at their worst 2-3 days after the test, long after I’ve left the doctors office. When I was a child, before anyone learned that the eczema was flared by delayed food ‘allergies’, I was eating fruits daily which caused intensive unbearable itching, skin eruptions, and open sores all over my hands and forearms.

    The itching was unbearable, the steroid ointments barely took the edge off. As a child, I did not understand much about what was happening and as I recall I would regularly have lint, hair or ‘fibers’ seemingly glued to my hands and arms due to the sticky nature of the eczema.

    My point is that if a medical doctor would have taught me that this eczema and those ‘fibers’ were caused by some foreign parasites, having no formal medical training and given the mostly negative allergy test results, I would likely have believed him. They did teach me that the eczema was definitely not caused by fruit or milk. Had someone suggested to me or my parents to consider the food ‘allergy’ possibility, it would likely have saved me years of grief and unnecessary medical costs.

    If the above were to have happened in the age of the Internet and I was older at the time, I would have researched it online. I would have found the Morgellons support group sites, and their claims, delusions, would have reinforced the misinformation taught to me by certain doctors – doctors such as the ones that are teaching these Morgellons patients that their fibers are indeed mysterious creatures, undetectable by anyone at the CDC or elsewhere.

    The physicians that are feeding the fears of these patients, taking advantage of their ignorance and naivete and exploiting them for much profit should not be allowed to practice medicine.

  140. #140 Fred
    February 3, 2012

    @Tanya: “Watch my video “AMAZING!! “Dancing” Morgellon’s Nano Fiber – Reacts to Music?”. Around 8 minutes and 35 seconds, as the music on my TV gets louder, the little beast really starts flipping out!”

    My radio will cause lint and carpet fibers to seemingly dance, just as is demonstrated in your video. A graphic example of this can be found on most Bose Wave advertisements. Oftentimes a very slight current of air, undetectable to you could cause a piece of lint to ‘dance’.

    Tanya, I read your comments on your YouTube site. What you have gone through is heartbreaking. Anyone who has gone through what you have described would certainly have great difficulty dealing with it all. I implore you to get psychological grief and trauma counseling from a qualified provider. Please do not let these unscuplous Morgellons doctors exploit your fears. Please sweetheart, get away from them.

  141. #141 Laura
    February 3, 2012

    Fred says

    Had someone suggested to me or my parents to consider the food ‘allergy’ possibility, it would likely have saved me years of grief and unnecessary medical costs.

    I think that delayed food allergies might be responsible for a great many of these strange syndromes. Because the symptoms aren’t obviously connected to food. The body does its best to cope with the symptoms and builds up a tolerance, so one may have to do an elimination diet and food challenges to make them obvious.
    Researchers have a lot of evidence that allergies can happen locally within specific organs, without systemic allergy. When I found that out, I started thinking that delayed food allergies might be local allergies somewhere in the GI tract – in the gut or maybe in the mouth.
    Sensitive, irritable skin is definitely an allergy symptom.
    My life would have been VERY different if I had been gluten-free from an early age. I found out about my intolerance to gluten and other foods when I came down sick at 43. As an unexpected benefit of doing elimination diets and food challenges – which took care of the physical sickness – I also found that my mind and personality changed intensely.
    I wrote about my food reactions (after doing elimination diets) at http://camoo.freeshell.org/reaction.html and about the psychological changes at http://camoo.freeshell.org/psych.html
    I don’t know exactly what is going on with the Morgellon’s people. Perhaps it’s no one single thing. Maybe they could collect the fibers for themselves and send them to a lab to be analyzed. I thinks facts are very important to resolve confusion. Are the fibers made of some body material – like hair? are they from clothing?

  142. #142 Tanya
    February 3, 2012

    Fred, while I appreciate your concern, I would first like to say that I have had years of counselling, therapy and even a thorough psych evaluation a few years ago. The psychiatrists assessment was that I had some generalised anxiety and body-image issues pertaining to my weight. I am not delusional, and have no history of delusions or psychotic behaviour.

    The child of whom I spoke in the description of that video, who was clinically dead, having been at the bottom of the pool for several minutes, was not a child I knew personally, and was miraculously revived by my mother, who performed CPR on him, so I do not require grief counselling. However traumatic, the ordeal ended on a very positive note, and I have no fears surrounding water, or flashbacks from the incident.

    This “lint” originates from my skin. Last night I had a bath, allowed my skin to air dry so as not to get any towel fibers on my skin, then watched under bright light as hundreds of strands of this “lint” began to appear on my skin, some of which were still partially imbedded in my skin. I find they flow out of the body quite readily when skin is moist, but if the skin dries before a fiber is all the way out, it gets stuck.

    I have shown other people this “lint” coming from my skin, and they see it, too. I am not delusional, unless a lot of other people, including doctors, some of whom are Morgellon’s sufferer’s themselves, are delusional also.

    It is interesting just how specific this mass delusion is, not only in terms of seeing fibers, but also in terms of the fiber’s colours (typically white/whitish, blue, black and red). Most of us also experience extreme fatigue, insomnia, joint and muscle pain, difficulty concentrating, bipolar and obsessive-compulsive tendencies. It’s also interesting how many people so readily dismiss Morgellon’s as a delusion based on a couple of inconclusive studies, when there are a number of professionals in the fields of medicine and science who completely disagree with the findings.

    I am not being influenced by “unscrupulous Morgellon’s doctors”. I began researching Morgellon’s before I had any suspicion I had it myself. Please try to keep a more open mind and don’t jump to conclusions.

  143. #143 Tina B
    February 3, 2012

    @113
    To say that fibromyalgia does not exist as a discrete illness is not the same as saying that the problems we commonly associate with what we call fibromyalgia don’t exist, or that it is a psychiatric problem. Discrete meaning here that it is part of a continuum rather than a definite (discrete) category as defined by the number of tender points.

    “Even though fibromyalgia is a diagnostic entity recognized by the American College of Rheumatology classification criteria and may have value in clinical medicine, there are sufficient clinical and epidemiological data to show that fibromyalgia does not exist as a separate entity, but rather represents the end of a pain-distress spectrum”

    “Our data
    would suggest that fibromyalgia is not a
    discrete disease, and that it is just as rationale
    to associate or not associate trauma with five
    tender points or 10 tender points or the requisite
    11 or more tender points. Similarly, for
    basic research, there seems to be no rationale
    for treating fibromyalgia as a discrete disorder,
    and it would seem more appropriate in such
    studies to examine the entire range of
    tenderness and distress”

    I prefer to take my information from the studies themselves rather than the often misreported articles in the mainstream press# Maybe that’s just because I’m ‘crazy’#

    http://www#ncbi#nlm#nih#gov/pmc/articles/PMC1752352/pdf/v056p00268#pdf

    http://www#ncbi#nlm#nih#gov/pmc/articles/PMC2944223/?tool=pmcentrez

  144. #144 Laura
    February 3, 2012

    @Tanya,
    Instead of taking videos of these fibers dancing, it might be useful to wash them and look at them under a microscope, and compare them to fibers in your clothing or whatever else you’ve been in contact with.
    After fibers have been in contact with perhaps inflamed skin, they would have organic stuff on them, maybe even cells growing on them, so they might need washing to make it clear what they are.
    Also, you could find some synthetic material without fibers to wear on the areas where the fibers appear, and not rub a towel on those areas. If you did that, would the skin lesions go away?
    You could *analyze* the situation, in other words, rather than replying to the CDC or relying on a doctor.
    I’ve found being analytical to be incredibly useful for solving problems, in real life as well as math or physics. It’s not always a natural lesson, a lot of our socialization and habit is NOT to think. YOU might be able to find out useful info!

  145. #145 Tanya
    February 4, 2012

    @Laura. I film the fibers to get people thinking, to raise awareness, to show the public that what Morgellon’s sufferer’s see is not all in our heads. As my personal research into Morgellon’s has lead me to the conclusion that everyone, not just those presenting syptoms, has the nano particles responsible for Morgellon’s in their bloodstream, and that it is altering the structure and composition of ALL of our blood, I believe everyone deserves this information, whatever they choose to make of it.

    These are not clothing fibers. Dr. Randy Wymore, a Morgellon’s researcher, sent samples to the Tulsa Police Department Forensics laboratory. Fiber experts Mark Boese and Ron Pogue ran a series of tests on two red and two blue Morgellons fibers. Both men decided the fibers were like nothing they had seen before. They compared the fibers to a database of more than 900 known compounds used in textiles, but found no match.

    If you read the wording of the CDC study, it is very deceptive. They say the biopsies contained cellulose fibers (this confirms prior private and independant Morgellon’s research) that resemble cotton, or have IR spectral characteristics consistent with cotton, but the study doesn’t actually find what it can conclusively call cotton.

    Of course most of the media outlets have chosen to ignore this fact, and report that the CDC found cotton fibers, therefore they must be from clothes and sufferer’s must be crazy, end of story.

    “If you did that, would the skin lesions go away?” Apparently you have fallen for propaganda that is part of the cover up. Lesions are a rare symptom of Morgellon’s sufferer’s (ie, those of us whose bodies, for whatever reasons, are rejecting the material). They only want people to “think” it is a rare “skin condition”. In reality, these fibers are found throughout the entire body.

    Morgellon’s fibers emerge from intact skin all over my body by the hundreds+ and I haven’t got a single lesion. The closest thing I get to “inflamed skin” is occasional mild hives between my breasts while bathing when the fibers are purging heavily, and these hives generally go away an hour or so after they appear. As I have stated before, I air dry to avoid confusing towel fibers with the Morgellon’s fibers.

    Not relying on doctors is sound advice, Laura. After 15+ years of being symptomatic (common Morgellon’s symptoms I personally deal with include severe fatigue, insomnia, frequent headaches, muscle and joint pain, ADHD-like symptoms, memory loss, bipolar-type episodes, difficulty in regulating body temperature, respiratory and digestive issues), I have found western medicine typically approaches illness with a focus on symptom management, tending to offer drugs or surgery, rather than using a preventative or complementary approach.

    I am unable to afford to see an ND or other holistic health practitioner, so, for the most part, I am my own doctor. I educate myself and take steps based on what I know, rather than just doing what a doctor tells me I should. Since I stopped listening to doctors, whose advice was only making me sicker, and took responsibility for my own health, I have improved substantially.

    I’m not all better yet, but I am gradually healing. 6 years ago I was 60 pounds heavier, was a junk food addict, was so agoraphobic it was difficult for me to walk 20 steps from my front door without having a panic attack, my skin was extremely itchy, my scalp was always raw and sore and often bled, I sweat so much I had to change 2-3 times a day and the bottoms of my feet were pitted from constant exposure to moisture. At one point I suffered severe gastric distress and diarrhea every day for about 7 months and despite numerous tests (ultrasound, bloodwork, stool & urine tests, etc.), no cause could be identified. I experienced physical memories/flashbacks of the sexual abuse that took place in my teens 100 or more times/day, I was unable to sleep without taking medication that turned me into a complete zombie.

    I still have a ways to go in terms of social anxiety, but I now am able to go out and do errands several times/week and even the occasional visit to family or friend’s homes. I no longer feel the compulsion to overeat, my skin only itches when the Morgellon’s is overly active, or if I consume excessive dairy or processed foods or certain additives, my scalp and feet are 100% healed, I perspire and over-heat substantially less and 1 outfit usually lasts me through the day. Digestive issues have improved 99%, I still get the physical memories, but their frequency has dropped substantially and generally only occur when I’m exposed to certain triggers. My sleep isn’t perfect, and although I use marijuana to get me to sleep, it does not make me drowsy or incapacitated all day like the prescription drugs did.

    I do deal with frequent headaches, soreness in my muscles and joints that typically ranges from mild-moderate and chronic fatigue, but my consumption of pain meds is down 2 thirds from 6 years ago and since discovering oregano oil a few months ago, which I believe helps address the lyme aspect of Morgellon’s, my energy levels are gradually yet steadily improving.

    I am, for the first time since I was a young teenager, excited about my future, rather than ranging from emotional numb, to outright suicidal at times like I used to be.

    Anyways Laura, you are preaching to the choir with your advice to take an analytical approach to this problem, but I appreciate your concern. There is an article entitled “CDC calls Morgellons’ nanoworms a delusion, protects DARPA”, by Rady Ananda of Activist Post that might help you to understand what Morgellon’s really is and why they don’t want the public finding out the truth. I would post a link but the moderators on this site appear to have a problem with me doing that.

  146. #146 Laura
    February 4, 2012

    Fred:

    I would have found the Morgellons support group sites, and their claims, delusions, would have reinforced the misinformation taught to me by certain doctors – doctors such as the ones that are teaching these Morgellons patients that their fibers are indeed mysterious creatures, undetectable by anyone at the CDC or elsewhere.

    Perhaps, although the abundance of strange claims is somewhat protective against believing them.
    If with a certain standard of evidence, you can come to believe something, and using that same standard of evidence, you can come to believe something contradictory to it, your standard of evidence is not good enough. People do realize this somewhat: they do know they can’t believe everything they read.
    So why, I sometimes want to ask people, if you believe without evidence, why aren’t you believing anything and everything? If you believe vaccines-cause-autism, aren’t you stuck, logically and out of a sense of fairness, with believing in homeopathy, 9/11 truthism, Jesus-mythism, alien abductions, and a thousand contradictory religions? Doesn’t it get to be a lot of work believing all those things, all without evidence and thus just as well supported as what you started out believing :) ?
    Jokes aside, people believe things more because they somehow suit their psychology, than because someone tells them to believe.

    The physicians that are feeding the fears of these patients, taking advantage of their ignorance and naivete and exploiting them for much profit should not be allowed to practice medicine.

    Yes, there are a lot of nutty doctors out there.
    I’ll tell you something pretty shocking, and it’s about mainstream doctors that people are supposed to be able to trust.
    For years, I would get allergy testing and I’d have allergies to almost the whole test panel. I maxed out at 53 allergies a few years ago. I spent thousands of dollars on allergy shots, but each shot made me sick for days, so I was spending half my time being sick. So I quit trying to do the shots.
    I have very few local nasal symptoms from allergies, no obvious congestion, no itching. My reactions are systemic: feeling sick and mentally hazy – so allergy shots did that to me, too. (isn’t that predictable?)
    In 2007, I became chronically mysteriously ill. I got lots of tests from lots of doctors, without avail. In 2010 I saw a couple of allergists, but they actually rather discouraged me from thinking it was allergies – because according to skin tests, my allergies had disappeared!
    But it FELT like allergies. So painfully by stages, I unravelled it. There were several causes. I was grinding mold into my food from some grain mills that were moldy, and that was making me very sick. Once those were cleaned, I was able to get well after living in a motel for about a week – so bingo! it was inhalants. Then I went to the SPCA and cuddled dogs for awhile, and I got very sick again. I had become very allergic to my dog!
    I started looking into non-IgE inhalant allergies. I found a person online who said she also had inhalant allergies and severe systemic symptoms – and negative allergy tests given by a “traditional” allergist. She talked the alt-med lingo, “allopathic” and about how there are non-IgE inhalant allergies and conventional medicine only recognizes the IgE-mediated kind …
    Eventually, I found out that there’s a new clinical entity called “local allergic rhinitis” – meaning that allergies can happen locally in the nose, without IgE antibodies for the allergens circulating in the blood, with negative intradermal skin tests for allergies. I posted some references earlier, but they fell into a moderation black hole, although local allergy is relevant to Morgellon’s. A continuing medical education paper on local allergic rhinitis was published in 2010 – before I saw both of those allergists who told me allergies were probably not what was making me sick!
    So don’t those allergists, who supposedly are practicing science-based medicine, read science? They can’t spend a few minutes a day reading a blog like http://allergynotes.blogspot.com ,where they would have read about the local allergic rhinitis concept a few days after the paper on it appeared?
    This alt-med believer online, with her talk of “traditional” allergists, had a point. They were traditional. Apparently they feel their job as allergists is just to march along doing their job in the ole-time traditional allergist way, as if being an allergist were like being a brewer or something.
    And because the allergists don’t keep up with the research in their field, people turn to alt-med explanations. Bad experiences with mainstream doctors turn many people to alt-med.
    And these doctors siphoned off lots of my time and money, for outdated advice. Despite spending many thousands of dollars on medical advice and tests, I ended up figuring it out by myself – with active DISCOURAGEMENT from doctors!
    I don’t know for sure if local allergic rhinitis is what I have. And was I misdiagnosed all those years with allergic rhinitis? Many allergists will treat people for allergies regardless of what their symptoms are, if they’re positive on allergy tests.

  147. #147 Terrie
    February 4, 2012

    @Tanya. You were diagnosed with generalized anxiety? Do you know about Generalized Anxiety Disorder? It requires certain physical symptoms to diagnose. Some of the more common physical symptoms include:
    *Fatigue
    *Difficulty sleeping
    *Muscle tension and aches
    *Difficulty concentrating

    There are plenty of other symptoms (including… skin issues!), but the above should look familiar to you (in fact, the are four of the six diagnostic symptoms along with restlessness and irritability). GAD is a real disorder, believed to have a physical cause in atypical functioning in amgydala.

    As for your “dancing” fiber, I plucked a bit of feather fuzz of my pants (from my feather pillow) and it behaved much the same. If you’re letting your hands air dry, they’re probably picking up bits of airborne fuzz like that feather bit.

  148. #148 Tanya
    February 4, 2012

    @ Terri. I am very familiar with the fact that anxiety disorders can cause real physical symptoms, and I don’t doubt that some of my physical symptoms are the result of anxiety. Even people not diagnosed with anxiety disorders are familiar with stress-related headaches, muscle tension, sleep-disturbances, acne, etc. I have not heard of stress causing fibers to emerge from the skin.

    Terri, I was extremely skeptical when I found out about Morgellon’s, and I’ve been trying, for the past year and a half to debunk it, myself, but I can’t. I just don’t see how airborne particles could be imbedding themselves in my skin, and these fibers don’t resemble the fibers in my clothing, bedding or other textiles I regularly come in contact with.

    When I take a warm bath in untreated water, there are far fewer fibers than if I have a hot bath and add things like baking soda, salt, or certain essential oils or soaps. In fact, one day recently, the first time I tried adding wild oil of oregano to my bath, I had so many bright red fibers emerging from my upper chest and arms, that it looked like I was covered in tiny bleeding cuts. I can’t *prove* it, but I know for myself 100% that there is something to this syndrome being called Morgellon’s. I choose to focus on raising awareness and figuring out how to heal myself and share that knowledge with others, because I KNOW from what I have witnessed with my own eyes that this affects all of us.

  149. #149 Fred
    February 4, 2012

    @Tanya, If you have visible fibers emerging from your skin, especially when you bathe, then this can surely be ‘proven’ to someone. Has anyone diagnosed you with Morgellons other than yourself, if so, who? What does your physician say about these fibers?

    If nothing else, your physician could arrange for a sleep study, an overnight visit to a hospital-based sleep center. They film you while you are sleeping and meet with you in person before and after the overnight study. Most sleep centers even have a private bathroom for their clients. You could take a bath or shower to help the fibers emerge, as you claim they do while bathing.

    Surely under such highly monitored conditions the staff there would see your fibers. You could let them take a sample of the fibers and they could send them to their lab for analysis. There is other useful information that you and your physician may learn from a sleep study, as well.

    Tanya, you said that you want to raise awareness of this syndrome. You owe it to the patients that you want to educate to provide them with irrefutable evidence that you do indeed have such fibers. Otherwise, you are misleading patients with unproven allegations and possibly detracting and diverting them from finding appropriate medical care.

    Regardless of your good intentions, detracting patients from receiving appropriate care could result in significant harm to them. Tanya, you owe it to the people that you want to help to provide the evidence that you have such fibrous creatures.

  150. #150 Tanya
    February 6, 2012

    Victoria Vigors, a morgellon’s sufferer who, like myself, doesn’t have skin lesions, has had 2 psychiatric evaluations, both concluding she is NOT delusional. Her story was featured in an article in the Daily Mail yesterday: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2096439/Morgellons-IS-real-Thousands-claim-suffer-agonising-skin-condition-doctors-claim-psychological.html

    She also has a YouTube channel, mrsvigors, where she talks about her experiences with Morgellon’s and shares information on managing symptoms.

  151. #151 Fred
    February 6, 2012

    @Tanya, I have watched some of those You Tube videos. How do you really know that she was evaluated by two psychiatrists or that they found her not delusional and not having other mental problems?

    How do you know that the two psychiatrists did not suffer from mental illness themselves? How do you know that she disclosed to the two psychiatrists her beliefs about having creatures or fibers exuding from her body, maybe she did not tell them everything?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eG0L3Ft_uM&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-mlKgs2U78&feature=related

    This is indeed a real tragedy. If this young woman is being taught by licensed medical professionals that she has creatures or other fibers exuding from her body as she describes in her videos, then this is just another example of patient exploitation. She may very well have a medical condition that causes extreme itching or other symptoms, but the actual cause of the condition is likely being misrepresented to her by these seemingly unethical providers.

  152. #152 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 6, 2012

    Victoria Vigors, a morgellon’s sufferer who, like myself, doesn’t have skin lesions, has had 2 psychiatric evaluations, both concluding she is NOT delusional. Her story was featured in an article in the Daily Mail yesterday

    Oh, you mean this Daily Mail? And that’s far from the only time they’ve been caught publishing false stories. There’s a reason it’s called the Daily Fail.

  153. #153 Phoenix Woman
    February 6, 2012

    Antaeus @ 150: Yeah, I would treat with extreme skepticism anything from the Forger’s Gazette.

    elburto @ 113 said: “Phoenix Woman – have you noticed that mentioning his name [Dr. Frederick Wolfe's] has one of two effects? Either the person claiming ‘disease X must be real, because it used to be said that fibromyalgia wasn’t real!’ will disappear, OR it causes a sort of word blindness, whereby posters pretend the bad words were never said, that there’s no way they are ‘crazy’.”

    Heh! Indeed, Tony Mach seems to have run away, hasn’t he? Don’t worry, he’ll be back, making the same bogus argument. Feel free to keep handy the link to my comment, to slam him with whenever he pops up again.

  154. #154 Tanya
    February 6, 2012

    @Fred, it’s pointless to debate you, as your arguments are based on the premise that Morgellon’s is a delusion, when there is overwhelming evidence, for those willing to look beyond obvious mainstream sources (who are engaged in a cover up as to the true nature of this manmade syndrome/bioweapon), that Morgellon’s is real.

    @Antaeus, all mainstream media is a fail, and the article barely scratched the surface (this is called throwing us a bone), but it was nice to see the voice of someone whose story I can strongly relate to being heard, and presented respectfully, for a change.

    Think what I’m suggesting here (Morgellon’s is self-replicating nanotech and we ALL have it) is far-fetched? Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/v/DNMZmQnkL9E

  155. #155 Lawrence
    February 6, 2012

    @Tanya – since you seem to be living in a sci-fi graphic novel as your reality, it is also pointless to attempt to debate with you aslwe..

  156. #156 Anton P. Nym
    February 6, 2012

    your arguments are based on the premise that Morgellon’s is a delusion, when there is overwhelming evidence, for those willing to look beyond obvious mainstream sources (who are engaged in a cover up as to the true nature of this manmade syndrome/bioweapon), that Morgellon’s is real.

    If by “obvious mainstream sources” you mean “qualified physicians, researchers, and medical examiners”, then looking beyond them means looking beyond those who know what they’re talking about… to the people who talk about secret lizards sapping and impurifying our precious bodily fluids with fluoride, nanothermite, and chemtrails.

    The preponderance of replies from those who do health-related research as a profession show no evidence of parasitisation in sufferers; that the samples provided are consistant with natural and artificial fibers present in today’s environment (notably from garments, furniture, and carpeting) and show no anatomical details that one would expect from a parasitic organism.

    Sorry, Tanya, but there is no scientific evidence of the existance of morgellons. There does seem to be a disease or syndrome affecting people, but it appears to be a neurological condition and not one of parasitosis.

    — Steve

    PS: so, so tempted to riff on the “scratched the surface” line with lines like “sore spot”, “rubbed raw”, “itching with curiosity”, etc. Alas, I have only partially resisted.

  157. #157 Tanya
    February 6, 2012

    You guys are dangerously sure of yourselves and far too trusting. Ignorance must be bliss. You’re right, there is no link between fluoride and bone cancer or reduced IQ. Nazi’s only added it to the water supply in concentration camps because they wanted to make sure everyone had healthy teeth. Those jet contrails that now fill up the sky, linger for hours and block out the sun? You’re right. It’s always been that way and it’s perfectly normal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA). Former FBI chief Ted Gunderson, a whistleblower who worked tirelessly to expose corruption, including the “chemtrails” (covert geoengineering) conspiracy, and spoke recently about attempts on his life, was not poisoned with arsenic(http://aircrap.org/ted-gunderson-fbi-whistleblower-poisoned/333385/). That’s just a hoax. Mmmm-mmm diet Coke! Shoot my kids up with more eugenics-funded vaccines, please, ’cause I want them to be REAL HEALTHY!

  158. #158 Laura
    February 6, 2012

    @Tanya
    For all that you say, I don’t think that you *have* taken an analytic approach to your personal health.
    You don’t mention having done a hypoallergenic elimination diet and food challenges. This could give you the surprise of your life! I have a couple of elimination diets at http://camoo.freeshell.org/elimination.html
    You don’t mention whether you are gluten-free, although you seem to be dairy-free. Gluten and dairy and to some extent delayed food allergies in general can have severe psychological effects. I wrote about the psychological effects on me, in http://camoo.freeshell.org/psych.html The foods that I eliminated, made me very sick when I tried them after an elimination diet. But I *also* found that eliminating these foods changed things drastically for me, psychologically.
    You *also* don’t mention whether you have tried what I suggested – wearing some kind of synthetic material close to your skin, that doesn’t *have* fibers, for a while, and seeing what happens.
    What some outside person thinks about Morgellon’s, isn’t relevant. Or the politics of it, etc. You’re all wrapped up in taking videos of it and all that – but that isn’t analyzing it.
    I’m sympathetic to your abuse history. I know about the body memories and flashbacks, I was also horribly abused. I think it might have messed up my immune system. Although I also have a family history of allergies and autoimmune problems, no relative of mine has the severe health problems I’ve had, and I was also the one who was severely abused. Likely, the abuse you went through messed up your immune system.
    Also, if you could afford it, just plain allergy testing would be a really good idea. Standard allergy testing, like skin tests and blood tests.
    Can’t you get some kind of health insurance, to pay for allergy testing? If you are disabled, isn’t there some insurance available?
    Tangentially – I don’t expect this is particularly relevant to you – but I found out recently, that for me, *inhalant* allergies caused general itching in my body!!!
    I wrote about finding that inhalant allergies were making me very sick – as well as being sick, I was itching mildly and chronically. Scritch scritch here, a few minutes later, scritch scritch there …
    Well, when I started intensely avoiding my inhalant allergens, the itching went away!!! No new medication, only less allergenic air!
    I didn’t know inhalant allergies could do this to someone. I’d had very bad itching from food allergies, but food allergies have more intense effects generally, maybe because there are larger amounts of antigen involved.
    Really amazing …

  159. #159 Laura
    February 6, 2012

    @Tanya
    When I advised you not to rely on a doctor, I did NOT mean abandoning mainstream medicine!
    Refusing to see doctors and going to see a naturopath is completely like jumping from the frying pan to the fire, in terms of reliability! At least you can’t afford naturopaths, that means you’re not exposed to some misleading advice.
    All I meant to say is that doctors can’t do it FOR you a lot of the time.
    Part of being analytical is seeing doctors! They have a lot of analytical tests they can do, to figure out what is going on with you. Like allergy testing! Have you ever gotten allergy testing???
    It’s a partnership, and you can be analytical with your own health as part of the partnership, and you can get analytical information from your doctor as well.
    By being analytical with your health, I do NOT mean just experimenting! Lots of people experiment.
    Hardly anybody is analytical about their own health.
    By being analytical, I mean doing the kinds of experiments I’ve been describing to you. Elimination diets/food challenges. Clothing without fibers.
    I described earlier, very abbreviated, the way I analyzed my own sickness, which I had to do pretty much on my own, because my allergies have stopped showing up in standard tests. You could read that to get an idea of what I mean by being analytical about the problem. I did LOTS of fruitless experiments before I really got analytical and figured out the cause.
    I’ve had the impression myself that doctors were just managing symptoms/throwing a drug at the problem. I’ve been displeased by that myself. Early on in my sickness, an allergist presented me with a steroid nasal spray. And I thought, isn’t that kind of silly? Isn’t the point to find out what’s making me so sick, rather than having to use a spray all the time???
    But, the nasal spray DID give me useful info. Because it did make me well, temporarily. That gave me reason to believe that the problem WAS inflammation in my nose.
    Also, that impression I had isn’t necessarily a fair one. Doctors DO also sometimes look for the underlying cause. Sometimes I’ve been sent to a specialist for that. Good doctors will look for the underlying cause. YOU also can be the one who looks for the underlying cause.
    With the immune system – you say many things that sound like you have an immune problem – rather little is known, and often all they can do is symptom management.
    Symptom management also is not something to be thrown away. It can be very useful.
    Abandoning the medical profession and all their knowledge and skill seems like a large part of your problem, actually.
    No, I have tried to use ALL the resources at my disposal. That means my own analysis AND doctors.

  160. #160 Tanya
    February 6, 2012

    (Note: Okay mods, removed the links, again, if I am unwittingly violating any rules, let me know. Do relevant links now count as “spam”?)

    You guys are dangerously sure of yourselves and far too trusting. Ignorance must be bliss. You’re right, there is no link between fluoride and bone cancer or reduced IQ. Nazi’s only added it to the water supply in concentration camps because they wanted to make sure everyone had healthy teeth. Those jet contrails that now fill up the sky, linger for hours and block out the sun? You’re right. It’s always been that way and it’s perfectly normal (See the documentary, “What In The World Are They Spraying?”).

    Former FBI chief Ted Gunderson, a whistleblower who worked tirelessly to expose corruption, including the “chemtrails” (covert geoengineering) conspiracy, and spoke recently about attempts on his life, was not poisoned with arsenic (Google “Was Ted Gunderson Poisoned?”). That’s just a hoax. Mmmm-mmm diet Coke! Shoot my kids up with more eugenics-funded vaccines, please, ’cause I want them to be REAL HEALTHY!

  161. #161 Narad
    February 6, 2012

    You’re right, there is no link between fluoride and bone cancer or reduced IQ. Nazi’s only added it to the water supply in concentration camps because they wanted to make sure everyone had healthy teeth.

    Oh, boy. OK, Tanya, list your sources. It doesn’t actually occur in Perkins’s The Truth about Water Fluoridation, it doesn’t occur in Borkin’s The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben, and the “Perkins letter” contains zero documentation. So let’s have some actual evidence lest you be revealed as a Disinformation Operative.

  162. #162 lilady
    February 7, 2012

    “Former FBI chief Ted Gunderson, a whistleblower who worked tirelessly to expose corruption, including the “chemtrails” (covert geoengineering) conspiracy, and spoke recently about attempts on his life, was not poisoned with arsenic (Google “Was Ted Gunderson Poisoned?”).”

    Now how did the name Ted Gunderson elude me…I take pride in my store of minutiae and trivia and I never heard that Gunderson was the “FBI head”. Gunderson was a special agent out of the Los Angeles FBI office.

    After he retired from the FBI, Gunderson started “revealing” what the U.S. Government was doing with “secret flyovers” spraying chemicals and killing animals and people. The “missions” are still going on, as evidenced by the chemtrails.

    So, I Googled “Was Ted Gunderson Poisoned?” and guess what? I located Tanya’s favorite website: http://aircrap.org/

    Yes, it’s all there folks; the chemtrails, the conspiracies, the fluoridation, Morgellons disease and the poisoning of Ted Gunderson.

    According to Dr. Edgar Lucidi, an opthamologist, who states he saw Gunderson’s body after he died from metastatic bladder cancer…Gunderson was poisoned.

  163. #163 lilady
    February 7, 2012

    I’ve got a comment stuck in moderation. Just look up Tanya’s reference on the internet:

    http://aircrap.org/

  164. #164 Kelly M Bray
    February 7, 2012

    Up until a couple of posts ago I had sympathy for Tanya. When I start reading about chemtrails and Nazi fluoride conspiracies, and eugenics funded vaccines, I have to come to one of two conclusions. Troll or mental illness?

  165. #165 lilady
    February 7, 2012

    “…I have to come to one of two conclusions. Troll or mental illness?”

    Troll AND mental illness. They are not mutually exclusive.

  166. #166 Kelly M Bray
    February 7, 2012

    After reading Aircrap I think both….

  167. #167 herr doktor bimler
    February 7, 2012

    Former FBI chief Ted Gunderson

    When was Gunderson chief of the FBI?

  168. #168 Tanya
    February 7, 2012

    @herr, former LA FBI beaureau chief, more precisely.
    @the rest of the fluoride zombies, your kindness and empathy toward someone who is suffering, whether you believe my illness to be physiological or psychological, is inspiring. I am sure your mothers would be proud to see the way you’re treating me here. Sending you hugs as it’s clear you don’t get many.

  169. #169 Anton P. Nym
    February 7, 2012

    You’re right, there is no link between fluoride and bone cancer or reduced IQ.

    Damn straight I’m right. And there is no link, ya daft Bircher.

    Nazi’s only added it to the water supply in concentration camps because they wanted to make sure everyone had healthy teeth.

    Myth. A repeatedly busted myth, at that.

    Those jet contrails that now fill up the sky, linger for hours and block out the sun? You’re right. It’s always been that way and it’s perfectly normal

    If you know anything about condensation, yes they are.

    Former FBI chief Ted Gunderson, a whistleblower who worked tirelessly to expose corruption,

    As others point out, he wasn’t a chief… he was a Chief of Station at one point, but calling him “FBI chief” imputes that he was J. Edgar’s right hand or something.

    Shoot my kids up with more eugenics-funded vaccines, please, ’cause I want them to be REAL HEALTHY

    Damn straight; don’t want ‘em to catch whatever you got.

    — Steve

  170. #170 Tanya
    February 7, 2012

    @Laura, I never said anything about “refusing to see a doctor”, I just don’t rely on doctors as my primary healthcare providers, anymore. That didn’t work for me. My health steadily deteriorated. Doing my own research/analysis and taking steps based on that, as well as following my intuition, has resulted in a significant reduction in my symptoms and my condition continues to improve.

    I do see doctors sometimes, and I do take their opinion into consideration, I am just getting more out of being my own healer. Do what works, right?

  171. #171 Beamup
    February 7, 2012

    Personal experience is a horribly unreliable guide to “what works.” This is why we do science.

  172. #172 Fred
    February 7, 2012

    @Tanya 169 “Doing my own research/analysis and taking steps based on that, as well as following my intuition, has resulted in a significant reduction in my symptoms and my condition continues to improve.

    I do see doctors sometimes, and I do take their opinion into consideration, I am just getting more out of being my own healer. Do what works, right?”

    Maybe your significant reduction in symptoms was due to your going off your medications. Maybe your medications were causing you some side-effects, such as fatigue, cramping, nausea, etc. Maybe you just think you are better now because you no longer suffer medication-induced side effects or drug interactions. Maybe you are confusing this improvement with an improvement in your overall preexisting illness when it is not.

    Your may consider your own research as helping you, but you are spreading misinformation to other vulnerable patients and dragging them into your drama. Others may have psychological problems and severe trauma as you claim for yourself, but they do NOT deserve to have someone suffering with gross paranoia ‘helping’ them, as you claim to do.

    As far as your “Do what works” comment goes, I would be fine with that if you were keeping your paranoid delusions to yourself, but you are not.

    You are a perfect example of how unscrupulous physicians and so-called support groups can manipulate needy patients and then exploit their illness to perpetuate myths across the Internet, then further using those myths to exploit others. Fear-based manipulative medicine.

    No wonder many physicians take on a impatient and dismissive attitude toward their more challenging patients. Who has time for this?

  173. #173 Terrie
    February 7, 2012

    Tanya has proven to be very inconsistent in her claims, beyond the constant thread of conspiracy. She pointed to the “consistent” claims of symptoms of “Morgellon’s” patients (fatigue, muscle pain, etc), but when I pointed out these are classic anxiety/stress symptoms, admitted that, yeah, they are that… but there’s still a conspiracy causing them.

    There’s no point arguing with someone with a conspiracy delusion, because then you’re either a victim or a member of the conspiracy.

  174. #174 Laura
    February 7, 2012

    Here’s another thought: So in this study that Orac is talking about, the fibers they found were of cellulose.
    I think that means they are of plant origin, not animal origin, because animals (including people) don’t make cellulose.
    But is it possible that fibers could appear on the skin, from something those people are eating?
    Some people eat toilet paper, rolls of it. If someone is eating lots of toilet paper, maybe some cellulose fibers from the TP would end up in their skin …
    Sexual abuse survivors have lots of eating disorders.

  175. #175 Krebiozen
    February 7, 2012

    When did the Illuminati start poisoning people with arsenic? It’s a bit old-fashioned isn’t it? Surely they would use ricin or one of those new poisons they have that induce death from natural causes.

  176. #176 Beamup
    February 7, 2012

    If people were eating toilet paper, bits of it could fall onto their skin, certainly. But they wouldn’t be getting there via the digestive tract and coming out through the skin.

  177. #177 Fred
    February 7, 2012

    The frustrating part of the story is that there are medical doctors that are feeding the fears and delusions of the patients. These doctors are likely making significant profits by perpetuating an apparently false epidemic.

    These doctors claim that they have examined the patients’ black, red and blue twisted fibers as emerging from their bodies.

    See the following PubMed article. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3047951/

    Yet, despite the CDC study and after personally examining the red and black twisted fibers for himself, Dr. Stricker is still asserting that “The people who say it’s delusional are going to look very, very stupid when the evidence comes out,”

    http://sfappeal.com/news/2012/01/sf-doctor-cries-foul-on-cdc-report-suggesting-skin-disease-is-imaginary.php

  178. #178 herr doktor bimler
    February 7, 2012

    Nazi’s only added [fluorine] to the water supply in concentration camps

    I’m intrigued by the evolution of this particular fabrication. As far as I can tell, a few decades ago the anti-fluoridation cranks started bullshitting about fluorine salts having been added to the water supply in *Soviet* concentration camps. About the same time, some other liar invented a story that German inustrialists had been *stockpiling* fluorides and had been planning to use them to control the subjugated populations after WW-II.
    Then a bit later the two stories merged and morphed because someone thought “Oh, Nazis are even more evil than Soviets! *They* should be in the story!” Presumably the earlier versions had specified Soviet camps because the John Birch tradition regarded communists as far scarier than Nazis.

    At any rate, there has never been an iota of evidence to support the myth. Even the anti-fluoridation cranks don’t bother faking evidence; they are content to tell the story to one another in their echo-chamber.

    So Tanya, that is why you destroyed your credibility even as a reliable reporter of your own physical state, when you quoted the myth so casually in comment #159. Didn’t it occur to you that when you jump from a belief in Morgellons Syndrome to an acceptance of “alternative Nazi history” (with no obvious connection to link them, apart from general ‘crank magnetism’) then no-one will take you seriously? It is concerning that you have so little insight into the likely outcome of inviting people to laugh at you.

  179. #179 Anton P. Nym
    February 7, 2012

    It occurs to me that some folks won’t get my reference to “Bircher”, as I’m doddering into geezerdom whether I acknowledge it or not.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society

    I’ll just leave it to the (hopefully) impartial Wiki folks, because if I started describing what I thought of the group I’d sound like one of the conspiracy types… but look where it’s headquartered, who’s daddy was a founding member, and how many JBS talking points show up in American political media.

    I will say that’s why I don’t take fluoride and chemtrails seriously, and why Tanya’s repetition of so many JBS talking points disinclines me from granting her opinions on Morgellons Disease much credence.

    — Steve

  180. #180 Gray Falcon
    February 7, 2012

    Tanya, are you aware of what resources and organization it would require for that conspiracy you describe to work? If they did have access to the kind of resources you describe, they wouldn’t need to act in secret.

  181. #181 lilady
    February 7, 2012

    @ Steve: Welcome to the club…I knew immediately what your “Bircher” reference meant.

    Here are the lyrics “Talkin’ John Birch Paranoid Blues”, performed by Bob Dylan at Town Hall, New York City. (note the cost of the tickets for his performance, circa 1963):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWD8kDHCctw&feature=related

  182. #182 herr doktor bimler
    February 7, 2012

    I see upstream at comment #160 that Narad is more familiar with this particular fiction genre. I have only just encountered the ‘Perkins letter’, that a food-fad foundation claimed to have received from a Charles Perkins in 1954, in which the author had allegedly heard from an anonymous IG Farben scientist about the Nazi plan to drug subjugated populations with sodium fluoride. Needless to say, there is no evidence verifying any step in this third-hand account.

    So it’s nice to see where one strand in the chain of fabrication began. Note that in 1954, no-one was claiming that the plan actually took place; that embroidery came later.

    Mainstream pharmacology remains unaware of the tranquillising powers of sodium fluoride.

  183. #183 Krebiozen
    February 7, 2012

    herr doktor bimler,
    I always assumed that the bizarre idea that fluoride was used as a mind control drug by the Nazis is related to the sedating effects of bromide. They are both halogen salts after all.

    Anton P. Nym,
    I always remember Flight KAL 007 that was shot down by the Soviets for straying into their airspace in 1983. The President of the John Birch Society, Larry McDonald, was on that flight, which is more than a bit ironic.

  184. #184 Hinterlander
    February 7, 2012

    Tanya and someone I know would get along very well. This person announced with great confidence recently that our country (NZ) is one of the last countries to fluoridate our water. After an internal head desk and a 10 second search online, I read out the list of countries which still carries out fluoridation. Oh, she said, well none of Europe fluoridates. Apart from the parts of Europe I just read out, and many of the other parts of Europe add fluoride to their salt, I said. Silence. Knowing this person well, I can say with some confidence that she will still believe and repeat that assertion to someone else. Just as Tanya will most likely continue to believe and propagate the nazi-fluoride myth.

    I can’t fathom why:

    1. these people don’t actually fact check first to see if their assertions are true or not, and;
    2. (even worse) still choose to believe it in the face of solid evidence to the contrary

  185. #185 Tanya
    February 7, 2012

    “Tanya, are you aware of what resources and organization it would require for that conspiracy you describe to work? If they did have access to the kind of resources you describe, they wouldn’t need to act in secret.”

    Very much aware. If the conspiracies I speak of seem impossible, I invite you to check out the documentary “Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement” on YouTube.

    It would seem that I’m not the only person who believes in the existence of such a vast conspiracy. Ever heard of Dr. Ron Paul, the republican presidential candidate whose popularity is growing steadily (latest poll shows Paul just 8 points behind Romney, whose popularity is dwindling)? He has spoken openly about the New World Order and opposes it. That is WHY he is so popular! Wonder why the media tries so hard to mariginalize and ignore him?

    Many of you act as though the concepts I’m speaking of are on the fringe, but the truth is, the world is waking up. We are on to the globalist agenda to use eugenics through the food, water, air and pharmaceuticals to drastically lower the world’s population and enslave the survivors. I am convinced Morgellon’s ties into this agenda.

    While there is some controversy surrounding the origins of the claim that fluoride was used by the Nazi’s, it absolutely does cause bone cancer (just google “fluoride bone cancer”) and reduce IQ (“fluoride iq”) and can cause reproductive problems (“fluoride infertility”). When dentists use fluoride, it is applied topically. Fluoride is of no benefit to teeth (or anything else) when ingested orally. Many dentists oppose the addition of fluoride to drinking water.

    “It is concerning that you have so little insight into the likely outcome of inviting people to laugh at you.”

    What people (at least the type who would laugh at me) think about me is of no concern to me. I am here to raise awareness and encourage people to think for themselves, not win a popularity contest. Seriously, get over yourself, your opinion of me is nothing.

    “The people who say it’s delusional are going to look very, very stupid when the evidence comes out,”

    Truer words were never spoken. The problem is that it will be a cold day in hell when the current establishment lets the truth see the light of day, and even if it did, the pathetic followers who would gang up and pick on someone going through a health crisis won’t feel an ounce of remorse for how they treated us.

  186. #186 Narad
    February 7, 2012

    Tanya, your Disinformation effort is plain to anyone who has their eyes open. Who’s paying you to make genuine NWO scholars look unreliable? I mean, seriously, Endgame? Alex Jones? That Zionist shill? You owe your masters a refund.

  187. #187 herr doktor bimler
    February 7, 2012

    While there is some controversy surrounding the origins of the claim that fluoride was used by the Nazi’s
    I think we can all agree, however, that the claim did not originate from reality.

  188. #188 Tanya
    February 7, 2012

    You children need to grow up, stop defending YOUR delusions, get over your petty differences and get out there and FIGHT for your loved ones, who are all under biological attack! WAKE UP!

  189. #189 Narad
    February 7, 2012

    We have woken up, Tanya. Are you so naive as to not realize that everyone else is way ahead of you?

  190. #190 Tanya
    February 7, 2012

    Care to elaborate, oh enlightened one?

  191. #191 herr doktor bimler
    February 7, 2012

    What people (at least the type who would laugh at me) think about me is of no concern to me.

    Everyone’s happy, then. A win-win situation!

  192. #192 alison
    February 7, 2012

    get over your petty differences and get out there and FIGHT for your loved ones, who are all under biological attack!

    Urgent message to PharmaOOM Control: it looks like this one is onto us, m’Lord! We’ll do our best to contain the issue.

  193. #193 Narad
    February 7, 2012

    Care to elaborate, oh enlightened one?

    That would be telling, Tanya.

  194. #194 Tanya
    February 7, 2012

    @Alison: Gee, Dr. Campbell, do you teach your students to have such compassion and empathy toward people they consider mentally ill? I wonder how your colleagues would feel about your repugnant behaviour toward a disabled repeat trauma survivor. You should be ashamed!

  195. #195 Narad
    February 7, 2012

    I wonder how your colleagues would feel about your repugnant behaviour toward a disabled repeat trauma survivor. You should be ashamed!

    Tanya, whatever you are suffering or have suffered, it’s not a Get Out of Being an Asshole Free card.

  196. #196 Gray Falcon
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya, you realize that it only takes one member of a conspiracy to bring it down, and that the odds of that happening increase with each member added. You are talking about a conspiracy of thousands. The odds that any of them might decide to sell out the others out of greed, pride, spite, altruism, or simple foolishness is pretty much 100%.

  197. #197 lilady
    February 8, 2012

    Is Tanya now claiming to be a “disabled repeat trauma survivor”? Is she accusing Narad of “repugnant behavior”?

    Well Tanya, I am one of Narad’s Respectful Insolence colleagues…and I don’t find his behavior to be in any way repugnant. Your behavior however, shows a particular nastiness directed to anyone who does not share your political and your social views, including all your conspiracies, your ignorance about history and your Nazi revisionism

    “Ever heard of Dr. Ron Paul, the republican presidential candidate whose popularity is growing steadily (latest poll shows Paul just 8 points behind Romney, whose popularity is dwindling)? He has spoken openly about the New World Order and opposes it. That is WHY he is so popular! Wonder why the media tries so hard to mariginalize and ignore him?”

    We, of course have heard of Dr. Ron Paul and you’re a wee bit off on his popularity among registered Republican voter:

    According to the Rasmussen telephone poll of like Republican Primary voters (Press Release 9 hours ago), 34% are for Romney, 27% for Gingrich, 18% for Santorum and 11% for Paul.

    I guess your hopes for a libertarian, “health freedom” and anti-Big Government Interference Presidency are not happening, Tanya. Too bad.

  198. #198 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    @lilady, Is Narad’s name Dr. Alison Campbell, associate dean, University of Waikato?

    If you actually read earlier comments, you will see Fred and I discussing my traumatic experiences, which I outlined in the description of my YouTube video “Morgellon’s Footage & A Confession”.

    I habour no hostility toward people who do not share my political and social views, I do however have a problem with the lack of respect with which some commenters express their opposing views. It is as though many of the posters have forgotten that I am a human being, and a seriously ill human being at that.

    It is BEYOND PATHETIC that someone calling themselves a DOCTOR (again, just so we’re all clear, that’s DOCTOR ALISON CAMPBELL, UNIVERSITY OF WAIKATO) would poke fun at someone who is suffering. If she thinks I’m delusional, she should be especially compassionate, understanding that I could be in a fragile state of mind.

    Oh and lilady, you might want to take a look at the Reuters/Ispos poll results released today, showing Ron Paul at 21% nationally.

  199. #199 alison
    February 8, 2012

    lilady – apparently it was me. Tanya, I’m sorry that you took my comments that way. The thing is, if you are going to actively promote the idea of a worldwide conspiracy to commit enslavement, genocide, & all the rest of it, if you are unable to provide any evidence of that then you are not going to be taken seriously. As Narad’s has pointed out, for what you’re proposing to be true, then practically every doctor, scientist, military personnel & so on in the world would have to be in on it. At which point the whole thing would unravel – there is no way that this ” conspiracy” could be kept a secret. In fact, if it did exist, then comments like yours would be picked up by the conspirators & then… Hence what was intended as satire…

  200. #200 herr doktor bimler
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya @184:
    What people (at least the type who would laugh at me) think about me is of no concern to me.

    Tanya @197
    I do however have a problem with the lack of respect with which some commenters express their opposing views.

    Make up your mind. Get over yourself.

  201. #201 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    “Hence what was intended as satire…” Oh get real Alison! You were making fun of me.

    ” for what you’re proposing to be true, then practically every doctor, scientist, military personnel & so on in the world would have to be in on it. At which point the whole thing would unravel – there is no way that this conspiracy could be kept a secret. ”

    Wow, ummm, ever heard of compartmentalization? The vast majority of those doing the dirty work for the conspirators have no idea what they are involved in. Their only crime is complacency. There ARE people speaking out, Ted Gunderson being just one example, and the whole thing IS unravelling.

    Alison, You are living proof that educated does not necessarily equal intelligent. Again, if you don’t understand how it works, start by watching “Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement”.

  202. #202 lilady
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya…read the poll participants. The Reuters poll contained the opinions of more Democrats than registered Republicans. The Rasmussen poll reflects the opinions of only registered Republicans who are likely to vote in Republican Primaries…big difference there.

    You still haven’t addressed your other “problems” of plugging into conspiracy websites, your belief in chemtrails and your Nazi revisionism. And, you never will as long as you cling to those sites, don’t think for yourself and consider yourself a victim of science-based medicine.

    You do know, don’t you, that this site’s blogger and posters are people who actually know human physiology through their education in biology, chemistry and medicine? You aren’t doing your “cause” any good by arguing against science.

    Get some professional help for your deep-seated emotional and mental problems.

  203. #203 Narad
    February 8, 2012

    The vast majority of those doing the dirty work for the conspirators have no idea what they are involved in.

    Precisely, Tanya. Nobody said you were a witting Disinformation Operative.

  204. #204 herr doktor bimler
    February 8, 2012

    someone calling themselves a DOCTOR (again, just so we’re all clear, that’s DOCTOR ALISON CAMPBELL, UNIVERSITY OF WAIKATO)

    For the record, Alison does not call herself a Doctor, or even a DOCTOR, on her webpage or anywhere else. This is fairly easy to check. Just so we’re all clear.

    Just for the record — just so we’re all clear — Tanya has shown herself to be a fool and a liar. She may be an undermedicated psychotic, or she may be a troll playing up the persona of paranoid delusions for fun… I don’t really care which.

  205. #205 herr doktor bimler
    February 8, 2012

    In the interests of full disclosure, I should point out that Alison is a PhD, but she does not call herself that on her webpage.
    I probably over-reacted to Tanya because I lose sympathy for anyone who tries to co-opt the reality of Nazi atrocities to dramatise her own self-centred delusions, and diminish their enormity in the process. It’s a form of holocaust denial.

    I should also point out that Alison has a close family member who used to be a member of a secretive “Government Communications Security Bureau”, so she is probably part of the conspiracy.

  206. #206 Hinterlander
    February 8, 2012

    Lucky GCSB gets all the cool conspiracies, unlike the SIS. I once went for a meeting in the hallowed halls of GCSB, hoping all the while to catch a glimpse of Lord Draconis himself (who was visiting our humble country at the time), but apparently he went into an unexpected moult and couldn’t make an appearance.

  207. #207 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    Aww, did I hit a nerve lilady? So touchy! I am not here to debate Ron Paul, nor defend my views on water fluoridation, chemtrails, etc. I commented because I want people to consider the possibility that the promotion of Morgellon’s as a delusion (or a skin disease, or parasites, or uncommon) is propaganda meant to distract the public while they make their best effort to cover up the truth, that it is manmade and widespread.

    I have never asked anyone to believe me. I understand that what I’m saying is difficult to accept. I simply wish to encourage people to think critically and not jump to conclusions based on inconclusive research. I also want to speak out in defense of others suffering from this debiliatating condition, who are for the most part being treated extremely unfairly by medical “professionals”. Put yourself in our shoes and treat us how you would want others to treat you, or someone you care about.

    “You do know, don’t you, that this site’s blogger and posters are people who actually know human physiology through their education in biology, chemistry and medicine? You aren’t doing your “cause” any good by arguing against science.”

    Wow, really? Judging from the ignorance I’ve encountered here I thought you were a bunch of delinquent teenagers trolling the web from your mom’s basement. Do you seriously believe that just because someone studies science their opinions are the gospel truth? Scientists, even special ones like you guys seem to think you are, often have conflicting opinions. What is accepted as scientific fact today, can be disproven tomorrow.

    Listen to yourself. You’re basically saying “We know everything because we’re scientists and you’re just a lowly, stupid, delusional Morgellon’s sufferer whose opinions have no validity, so shut up!”. You sound disgustingly arrogant.

    You can memorize and regurgitate information and earn all the degrees in the world, but that won’t give you wisdom, or impart kindness (emotional wisdom), and you guys have done an impressive job proving it!

    Btw, herr dorktor, click on Alison’s name. You’ll find yourself on her blog. On the left, under links, click “Alison Campbell”. What does it say there, right up at the top of that page? Hmmm? Hint: IT SAYS DR ALISON CAMPBELL.

    Just for the record — just so we’re all clear — doktor bimler has shown himself to be a fool and a liar, hahaha! Couldn’t resist ;)

  208. #208 alison
    February 8, 2012

    herr Doktor said that I ‘don’t call myself Doctor’. This is correct. I don’t use the title on my own web pages & in fact I tend not to use it anywhere except as required by the nature of my job. The link you clicked on took you to the uni’s official pages, where all staff with PhDs are so identified; standard practice in such institutions.

    Tanya, I think if you look back, people were treating you with kindness & respect (Fred & Laura spring to mind, but there were many others). Around post 159 you started to throw all sorts of conspiracy claims into the mix, including dragging the nazis into it, which didn’t exactly help with how people perceived what you were saying.

    And yes, what science accepts today, may well be rejected at some point in the future. Usually as the result of further scientific research. (Helicobacter pylori as the cause of gastric ulcers, rather than stress, for example. Or the fact that Vioxx wasn’t all it was cracked up to be.) But it’s not rejected or accepted on the basis of some sort of popularity contest; any changes in our understanding are evidence-based. Which is where we part company from the whole conspiracy thing.

  209. #209 Laura
    February 8, 2012

    @Tanya
    I’m glad you do see doctors sometimes. I’ve met people who have become set against mainstream medicine, and it’s a dangerous attitude to have.
    However, you have avoided answering me, on whether you have done specific analytical things to diagnose yourself.
    You’re avoiding challenging your self-diagnosis of Morgellon’s with analytical methods.
    Not seeing a doctor for your symptoms, avoids challenging your self-diagnosis. That is part of analytically challenging it.
    THAT is probably why you aren’t seeing them for it – probably NOT some commonly held idea about doctors “just addressing symptoms”. If you are imagining things, you could check THAT by having some medical person – or even some non-Morgellon’s non-medical person – nearby right after you take a shower. Do THEY see fibers coming out of your skin?
    And as I said there are self-help analytical methods, like getting fibers out of your life for awhile, that you don’t seem to have done. You did it in a small way, by avoiding towel-drying, but apparently not in a more disciplined complete way.
    And, checking your self-diagnosis by doing an elimination diet/food challenges.
    I did read that Daily Mail article you linked to, and it describes people doing similar things to what you have done – grabbing onto the online Morgellon’s stuff.
    I think of it as “downloading a thought virus from the internet”.
    At least you are going outside the Morgellon’s self-reinforcing groups, by reading what people here say. I and probably most other people here, find the study that Orac cited, that looked at the reality of 115 people self-diagnosed with Morgellon’s, FAR more convincingly factual than your arguments.
    I do relate to having found mainstream medicine not all that useful for some things, since I have delayed food allergies and (apparently) local inhalant allergies, and “brain allergies” – allergies that affect the mind in ways that aren’t well documented in mainstream medicine.
    But, what I said STILL applies. You’re STILL isolating yourself, from analytically checking out your ideas by yourself OR by seeing doctors.

  210. #210 Laura
    February 8, 2012

    Beamup says:

    If people were eating toilet paper, bits of it could fall onto their skin, certainly. But they wouldn’t be getting there via the digestive tract and coming out through the skin.

    What makes you think that? I was looking for evidence, not opinions.
    These people literally eat ROLLS of TP. Maybe indigestible fibers can be stiff enough to work their way out of the digestive tract. Splinters of glass or bone can do that.

  211. #211 Vicki
    February 8, 2012

    At the risk of bringing some data into this:

    I’ve seen the sky without contrails. So have many of us. September 2001, “total ground standdown,” a few days with no commercial and little military aviation over the United
    States. There are published papers on this natural experiment (“natural” in the sense that it wasn’t intended to study contrails or climate, not in the sense that it wasn’t done by humans).

    Also, I treat disabled trauma survivors the same way I treat other people, disabled or not, trauma survivors or not: I don’t accept their claims just because of their disability or trauma history, nor do I reject them on that basis. PTSD can have a number of effects; I’ve yet to see a claim that it makes a person a better judge of unconnected facts or claims than the rest of us.

  212. #212 Militant Agnostic
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya, your signature links to a website which has a link to David Icke’s website. Do you believe as he does that Queen Elizabeth, George Bush & Kris Kristofferson (among others) are actually shape shifting lizards?

  213. #213 Fred
    February 8, 2012

    @Gray Falcon, “…you realize that it only takes one member of a conspiracy to bring it down…”

    I sure hope so.

  214. #214 Gray Falcon
    February 8, 2012

    Take note, Fred, that they don’t even need to do so intentionally. The conspiracy Tanya describes requires utter infallibility on the part of thousands.

  215. #215 lilady
    February 8, 2012

    @ Tanya: You didn’t hit a nerve…I’m not the one with delusional parasitosis…or the one who plugs into widespread multiple conspiracies.

    I myself rarely see contrails which are condensations from the exhaust of jet planes…I live in an area near to 3 major airports, just beneath various airports takeoff/landing flight paths. http://contrailscience.com/

    However, when I traveled into the desert Southwest United States and traveled to the end of the Gaspe Peninsula Quebec Province, contrails from planes flying at high altitudes are readily visible.

    You desperately need help for your delusions. You would do well also to stay away from conspiracy websites and study some real history and get yourself educated in the process of government.

  216. #216 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    @Alison, I think I made it pretty clear from my 1st post that I thought Morgellon’s was part of a conspiracy. I mentioned chemtrails, nanotech, etc. from the get go. I didn’t “drag the nazi in it”. I made a sarcastic comment and others used it to try to discredit me.

    I felt some of the “kindness and respect”, Fred’s in particular, could be better described as humouring me. Regardless, Fred is not the Doctor (which is what your bosses apparently call you), or if he is, he was smart enough to make jokes at a Morgellon’s sufferer’s expense anonymously.

    It really seems as though you’re just trying to make excuses for your behaviour, implying I deserve to be picked on because of my views, or that it’s okay because other people are doing it, too. Again, nobody is asking you believe anything I say, but if you don’t, there’s no need to be a jerk about it.

    I try to respect others regardless of whether I agree with all of their opinions. I don’t feel threatened by different perspectives, and feel no need to put people down because they think differently. I have trouble understanding the motives of those who feel the need to ridicule those who don’t conform.

    I think some scientists are only able to view the world through the filter of science, and mainstream science at that. Their intellect may be highly developed, but their intuition ‘muscles’ have completely atrophied. The response to Morgellon’s by the scientific community is a great example of this. If all of these scientists and doctors were thinking from their hearts, and really listening to the Morgellon’s patients themselves with an open mind, rather than relying solely on inconclusive data from a flawed study as their sole source of information, they would have an entirely different opinion of, and attitude toward, Morgellon’s sufferer’s.

    There will be an epidemic of foot in mouth disease the day your almighty CDC is forced to admit the truth.

    @Laura I am not avoiding you, I just don’t feel I owe you an explanation of everything I’m doing. When you have scores of fibers coming out of unbroken skin, you are not going to get a confirmation of a self-diagnosis of Morgellon’s from the vast majority of doctors.

    Most people that seek medical attention for Morgellon’s are prescribed anti-psychotics or other psychiatric medication, and the doctors refuse to analyse, and often even look at samples. Until I find a doctor who I know I can trust, it would not benefit me to bring up Morgellon’s.

    Yes, other (non medical) people see the fibers, too, and yes, they have seen them emerging directly from my skin. Of course I have verified with others that they are real, I would actually PREFER to be delusional.

    Oh and just to be clear, I am not a TP eater. I try to eat as healthy as I possibly can, and I don’t consider toilet paper to be a healthy food choice.

  217. #217 Tanya
    February 8, 2012

    “The conspiracy Tanya describes requires utter infallibility on the part of thousands.”

    Precisely, and that is why they’re going to FAIL! :)

  218. #218 Gray Falcon
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya, if what you were describing was going on for years, then the point of failure would have happened long ago. I’ve seen complex systems in action, the one you describe has far too many potential points of failure to work for more than a week. Add to the fact that most of the people involved would have no idea what they were really doing, and then you get a system whose lifetime could be measured in hours.

  219. #219 Anton P. Nym
    February 8, 2012

    Damn… now I find myself hoping that Tanya is a Poe, because this is going way over-the-top.

    — Steve

  220. #220 Edith Prickly
    February 8, 2012

    We are on to the globalist agenda to use eugenics through the food, water, air and pharmaceuticals to drastically lower the world’s population and enslave the survivors.

    So when exactly is this dastardly plan going to be put into effect? If the news reports can be believed (wait, is the media in on the conspiracy or just unwitting dupes? I can never remember.) the world’s population is approaching/has already reached 7 billion. Do our Illuminati puppetmasters want the joy of killing as many people as possible when the time comes, or do they need a critical mass of hardy specimens for enslavement?

    And yes, I am making fun of you – I can’t take anyone seriously who makes a 10-minute video of a piece of lint sitting on the end of her finger and tries to claim it’s proof that we’re all being invaded by mysterious nanotech fibers. You are suffering because you refuse to seek effective treatment for your mental health issues and have taken refuge in absurd conspiracy theories instead.

  221. #221 Laura
    February 8, 2012

    People with these weird beliefs almost always avoid carefully checking them. When I’ve suggested ways of checking their beliefs to such people, they’ve always come back with a standard “rap”. That’s what Tanya is doing – she has standard “lines” to repeat and alt-med lingo. What she does NOT do is say, “Good idea, I’ll try THAT!”
    I suggested to a homeopathy believer online that he could do a double-blind experiment on himself to test homeopathy. Homeopathy should be very easy to test vs placebo, since the solutions are basically water – you just need a good way to randomize which is which and a good way to label which is which, that you check later.
    But he barely addressed the question of checking his remedies vs placebo. He had a standardized rap that he did, and he just kept on coming back with variations on it. Tanya seems more intelligent than this person and her rap is more sophisticated, but it’s the same avoidance.

  222. #222 Fred
    February 8, 2012

    Tanya, I am sorry that you are as you describe a “seriously ill human being”. The fact remains that you are not the only person in this world with a chronic medical condition, regardless of the cause. You say that you “have a problem with the lack of respect with which some commentators express their opposing views. It is as though many of the posters have forgotten that I am a human being…”.

    First, I would like to thank Alison and others for their comments. My response here has been tempered by their astute observations and gracious willingness to take time from their busy schedules to help you. People here Tanya, are trying to help you, you are not ‘hearing’ to them. Just sit back for a minute, take a deep breath, realize that no one can ‘see’ you right now.

    Please just read the comments and consider that the manner in which you have been making your decisions all these years could be seriously flawed. Give it a try. You don’t have to tell anyone that you are questioning your own judgment. You owe it to yourself to check and double-check your decisions and make sure that they are sound and in your own best interest.

    Tanya, if your family or others have victimized and abused you so severely, what makes you think that those people have provided you with a proper education and necessary skills to think critically and relate to others in an emotionally healthy manner? Maybe the skills and thinking patterns with which you have been taught or exposed to are as disturbed and skewed as the conspiracies which you claim exist?

    You seem to have a lot invested in your illness and history of abuse, Tanya. A lot of your investment seems related to your ego in that you simply refuse to consider any possibility that you could be wrong, about anything. You are trying to hold your ground.

    The people posting here are not seeking to abuse you further. Give a little leeway and really study, research what they are saying. Let go of your ego, acknowledge the possibly that you could be making mistakes in judgment. Perhaps you have been taking advice from all the wrong people in the past.

    Tanya, perhaps as a result of being severely abused and victimized, thus isolated and distanced from learning and participating in life with people who are caring and willing to take the time to educate you properly has resulted in an incorrect pattern of thinking, causing you to draw incorrect conclusions, illogic.

    If I were you, given your history, I would have a hard time trusting anybody for anything. Some of your feelings are quite understandable. It seems like many important people in your life have really let you down and abused your trust time and time again.

    You mentioned that “It is BEYOND PATHETIC that someone calling themselves a DOCTOR …” People should be able to trust their doctors. Do you feel that paying them should ensure that they will not betray you, or will even like you and want to help you? What I am saying is that if I were you I would be angry too. It is not fair that you had to suffer so much and why, why didn’t someone, anyone intervene on your behalf??

    Are you still being abused? If you are, let us know, I am sure people here will direct you to appropriate help and support.

    If you are no longer in an abusive situation, then you have other choices. First, it certainly does not seem like you are, shall I say, enjoying life to its fullest. Do you want to?

    If you really want help Tanya, and you certainly do seem to be shouting out for help, then the first step is to find someone you can trust. Just trust someone a little bit at first, a little teenie eenie bit. Find someone that you don’t already know, someone who will not feed your fears or prey on your vulnerabilities and naivete. That is different than finding someone who will simply agree with you, but rather find someone who will softly challenge your thinking.

  223. #223 lilady
    February 8, 2012

    @ Tanya @ 206: Please stick around for my post stuck in moderation…I promise you that you won’t be disappointed.

  224. #224 Fred
    February 8, 2012

    Ditto to @220. Please stick around Tanya.

  225. #225 Terrie
    February 8, 2012

    It’s a shame Fred is not the Doctor. I want a ride in the TARDIS. (Oh, c’mon, I’m not the only one thinking that, right?)

  226. #226 Thomas
    February 8, 2012

    “I think some scientists are only able to view the world through the filter of science”

    That’s true. It’s sad that only some scientists are capable of fearlessly eschewing appeals to emotions, self-delusion, and other human weaknesses, but it is those scientists who find the truth as it is, not as they wish or imagine it to be. If all scientists (and all people) viewed the world through the lens of science, we’d all be better off.

    P.S. When dealing with people who claim to believe in conspiracy theories, it’s fun to think about what they’d do if they really believed (and weren’t just pretending to). What would you do if you believed a vast conspiracy was poisoning the world? Would you spout off about the conspiracy on websites, attracting the attention of the evil-doers, who have the motive and capability to silence you permanently?

  227. #227 Tanya
    February 9, 2012

    Hey guys, really don’t feel like I’m being heard here. So much advice I’m getting on here is based on ignorance and assumption, so I thought I’d try a different approach. I have posted a video response on YouTube “re: Still More Evidence That Morgellon’s Disease is Delusional Parasitosis” on my channel, screwedworldorder. It’s kind of long, but I hope you’ll listen with an open mind.

    @Thomas, there are millions of us now exposing some aspect of this conspiracy. The more of us who stand up, the safer it is for all of us. It doesn’t mean some of the bigger fish (ie, Ted Gunderson) don’t get fried, but we’re all going to die eventually anyways, and I’m a firm believer that you don’t go until you’re meant to. These monsters are already poisoning me and my family using soft-kill weapons through the food, water and air and I’m not going down without a fight!

  228. #228 Fred
    February 9, 2012

    Ok, I simply can’t resist. I did try. I really did.

    Tanya, you’re starting to convince me. I’ve been thinking about some of the weird things going around my house, stuff just starts moving without anyone touching it.

    You said your fibers dance to music, well the dishes in my kitchen cabinet dance to changes in daylight. Every day at dusk and dawn for about 30 seconds, my dishes do a little dance. Seriously. I can even hear them from the other rooms in the house. I hear them rattling away in the cabinets, like clockwork. They just seem to love the sunrise and sunset. I mean, really, what else could it be?

  229. #229 Denice Walter
    February 9, 2012

    @ Tanya:

    I don’t know what is causing your problem but obviously you’re suffering- your skin is the source of troubling sensations *whatever* is causing it ( I will not put any labels on the condition or its causation)- the real issue is *suffering* and getting help for that. Peace of mind and comfort.
    You sound as if you’re young- you don’t want this to go on long term- you want to have a decent life. You need to find a caring doctor who will find the appropriate medication that will _stop_ the terrible sensations that are harming you- forget what they call it!- if the meds work, who cares! You want the suffering to stop, don’t you?

  230. #230 Fred
    February 9, 2012

    Holy Toledo! Tanya has posted a 51 minute long YouTube video about us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwglWtrNMJ0&list=UUi2EX3a2iRyi7qFByBhQVLQ&index=1&feature=plcp

    Tanya, first of all, I apologize for making the joke earlier about my dishes dancing. There are train tracks near my house and when the train passes, the vibrations from the train cause the dishes to rattle.

    I’m not a doctor, but seriously, you need help. The doctor you mentioned from this forum is not a medical doctor, but rather a PhD. There is a difference. She did not “gang up on you”.

    The Morgellons and chronic Lyme disease diagnoses are bogus. Yes, Lyme disease exists, but not in the manner in which you seem to believe and it doesn’t manifest the types of symptoms you describe.

    Who was the psychopath you were exposed to? Your parent?

    Tanya, what is the name of the medical doctor that diagnosed you with Morgellons? Specifically who diagnosed your chronic Lyme disease?

    One problem with delusional-like mental health issues is that you do really believe that what you are seeing or hearing is real. I believe that you believe the fibers are in your body.

    I hear the struggling and pain in your voice. I don’t know what else to say. At a minimum, you describe what I understand to be severe PTSD. Those memories you describe sound like flashbacks. I am glad that you are no longer being abused. However, my understanding is that severe childhood abuse and trauma can cause long-lasting psychological challenges. You need to pursue appropriate care for your trauma. This is not Morgellons and it is not Lyme disease. I have extensive knowledge and experience with Lyme disease. This Is Not Lyme.

    Who is telling you that Morgellons causes Bipolar disorder?

    Certainly, there should be places in Canada that cater to trauma victims? Have you looked into these places?

  231. #231 Narad
    February 9, 2012

    Hey guys, really don’t feel like I’m being heard here. So much advice I’m getting on here is based on ignorance and assumption, so I thought I’d try a different approach.

    Which is to say, a rambling 51-minute monologue in a venue in which you have control of the comments. (And, really, you’re the one linking to stopgeoengineering-dot-com, which links to Icke, so the “haha, aliens, what are they talking about” routine doesn’t play.)

    It seems as though you’re looking for a supportive community. Perhaps everybody in the Morgellons circle has already heard everything from everybody else and it’s getting dull. You ought not to expect that the shared fantasy that causes that group to cohere can thus be packed up and taken elsewhere and immediately command not just respect but dutiful indulgence of anything that you want to assert.

    You’re not looking for help, you’re demanding palliative confirmation of a belief system. I’m sorry to be harsh, but as long as you persist in this, you’re just reinforcing your plight. Psychiatry can be frustrating; I know from experience. But I would suggest that you take a step back and ask whether what you’re doing is actually helping. Perhaps it is, at least enough to get by. Perhaps you could find something more effective. But don’t expect the orchestra to spontaneously gather and the limelights to fire whenever you clamber onto an arbitrary stage.

  232. #232 TyrannyNews
    February 10, 2012

    @ Tanya:
    You know, I really can’t find anything in what you’ve said or how you’ve said it to take issue with. Do I know with certainty that any of your claims are false? No. Do I know with certainty that any of your claims are true? No. I do, however have the opinion that you’ve done all that you can to explain your theories and maintained fairness in the face of a virtual armada.

    I’ve never previously visited this forum, but stumbled upon it through a link at randi.org. I was looking for a consensus response to the recent CDC announcement and thought randi.org might include something of the sort. As I’m finding here in the tone of responses to your comment, I found only mean-spirited joking and an endless battle to achieve ultra-conformity.

    It’s starting to sink in with me that, the problem of the “us vs. them” attitude is largely because of the supposed meaning of “Conspiracy Theory.” It doesn’t automatically register with some people that the phrase was perfected in its use by public relations groups. So, the current definition and more importantly the meaning is murky. When the word “conspiracy/conspiracies” was used in reference to you, it was almost certainly intended to paint you in an insulting manner. From my research, when the conspiracy theory becomes a historical event or fact of science this new information doesn’t seem to reach those who might have once challenged it.

    On the topic of Morgellons…I am aware of their existing a web-page on the CDC website as early as 2006 that identified Morgellons disease with some limited but explicit details. They referenced the NIH as indicating the cause was Chromosome 1 duplication/trisomy of q42 11 Q42 12. That page and its cached version at Google were taken down sometime soon after it was found by a Morgellons sufferer.

    What’s more interesting to me is the expanse of time between the commissioning of the study in Jan 2008 and the first research article to be produced in Jan 2012. And, $700,000 devoted to the study seems a paltry sum.

    Tanya, you’ve done a heroic job (so far as I’ve read in this thread) in attempting to prevent this thread from degrading into one with nothing but jokes and unfair assaults. I commend you for it and recommend you avoid learning anything from posters that seek only to ingratiate and serve themselves.

  233. #233 Tanya
    February 10, 2012

    I recorded a “Part 2″, tried to be a little more concise. A little difficult with my concentration, but I do the best I can. I will get that uploaded tomorrow. In the meantime, worth checking out on YouTube, a video called “Jeff And Jan Smith – Morgellons…See What The CDC Calls Hallucinations !” More of this non-existent fluff from our imaginations. In my video I’ll show you some of the material I’ve collected from my skin.

    @Fred, can I ask what your profession is that you “have extensive knowledge and experience with Lyme disease.” and that you feel you have the authority to decide that I do or do not have Morgellon’s or Lyme? Google “lyme symptoms”, click on what should be the #1 result (canlyme) and you will see a list which mentions virtually every symptom I’ve described (headaches, joint/muscle pain, fatigue, digestive issues, reproductive issues, bipolar and depression, insomnia) and several other symptoms I experience, but forgot to mention.

  234. #234 Gray Falcon
    February 10, 2012

    TyrannyNews, large crimes leave large quantities of evidence. You have nothing. Do the math.

  235. #235 Fred
    February 10, 2012

    @Tanya “Fred, can I ask what your profession is …”

    All you need to know is that I am not a “medical doctor” and for purposes of this website you can call me “Fred”.

    You should understand that not all doctors and not all patient support sites have your best interest in mind or offer accurate medical information. I suggest you question the accuracy of the information presented by your source, canlyme, really research it and go to the source. Where did they get the list of all those symptoms you describe, what was the original purpose of that list being written, was it to document the known symptoms of Lyme disease or to simply make a list of every possible symptom for a research project about Lyme?

    You do not seem like you are ready to do the work to get better. When your suffering gets to be too much for you and you lose the little remaining audience you have, maybe you will change.

    I have better things to do than to argue with you about chemtrails, conspiracies, Lyme or Morgellons. Those topics have been discussed and explained to you quite clearly by others much more qualified and skilled than myself.

    You can believe what you will. My objection is that you are spreading bogus information into the patient population. The people on this blog can easily refute your paranoid allegations, but many patients can not. Do everyone a favor and keep your illness to yourself. The qualified, reputable doctors are busy enough trying to deal with patients who actually want to get better.

  236. #236 Terrie
    February 10, 2012

    What is with some people and Google U? Do people no longer understand the difference between a finding tool and real information source?

  237. #237 Fred
    February 10, 2012

    Terrie, As I see it, a large part of the confusion and misinformation about Lyme disease is that a lot of it is being spread by real doctors. Those symptom lists Tanya referred to are being distributed by many leading ILADS doctors and given to their patients with the explanation that Lyme can indeed cause all of those symptoms. It is hard for patients to distinguish what is true or false when licensed physicians are giving out the bogus information and diagnoses.

    Google U aside, the so-called LLMDs have created quite their own share of the market from people like Tanya and others.

  238. #238 JGC
    February 10, 2012

    Let’s think for a while about the scope and resources of the conspiracy Tanya describes.

    It has to be multi-national. It has to be sanctioned at the highest levels of all governments working in concert. It has to entirely control all of the world’s health care, internal and international security organizations, all bracnches of all militaries. They must if not control monitor and where necessary co-opt or silence all of the world’s health-care and public health professionals, engineers, investigative reporters, human rights advocates, economists, historians, etc. It must have total control of all media.

    And it has to have been doing this for decades, without a single mistake.

    An conspiracy this vast, with this level of organization and that degree of economic, personnel and material resources would be unstoppable, so why mess around with things like chemtrails, flouride, Morgellons? There’d be no reason to hide its existence and the apocalypse would already upon us. What are the conspirators afraid of–Patrick Swayze wannabees taking to the hills of Colorado and fighting the good fight,a la Red Dawn?

  239. #239 Terrie
    February 10, 2012

    @Fred, it’s more that she had repeatedly referenced “Google this topic” as if that was proof. As a librarian, the googlification of information is somewhat depressing to me. I love Google, but it’s hardly the be all and end all of research.

  240. #240 herr doktor bimler
    February 10, 2012

    TyrannyNews @231:
    I am aware of their existing a web-page on the CDC website as early as 2006 that identified Morgellons disease with some limited but explicit details. They referenced the NIH as indicating the cause was Chromosome 1 duplication/trisomy of q42 11 Q42 12. That page and its cached version at Google were taken down sometime soon after it was found by a Morgellons sufferer.

    So your awareness of “a web-page on the CDC website” does not extend as far as having seen it, but but boils down to “I heard about it from some anonymous stranger on the WWW who claimed to have seen it once but now it’s disappeared without even any trace in the records of a private company (Google)”?

  241. #241 Narad
    February 10, 2012

    So your awareness of “a web-page on the CDC website” does not extend as far as having seen it

    Not that “it” is difficult to find, despite having been immediately purged from teh Intertubes by the Powers That Be. (Extra points for the Tom Bearden reference in the URL.) Interestingly, none of the versions floating around contain the URL of the purported original, and at least one has had the HTML modified to turn the background yellow on the “damning” text. Indeed, a search on “NOTE: To learn more or to report suspected cases” turns up only references to this very item.

  242. #242 lilady
    February 10, 2012

    @herr doktor bimler: As they say in the media business…that “story has legs” and has traveled across the miles, time…and on the crank internet websites.

    @ Tyranny News: You really shouldn’t be spreading this whopper on the internet. Here for your perusal is a link to the genetic disorder “Silver-Russell Phenotype” published in the British Medical Journal:

    http://jmg.bmj.com/content/39/8/582.full

    Oh goodie! There are actual pictures of the young man with this genetic phenotype. See his skeletal anomalies, see his kyphosis and read the article…to see that he does not have delusional parasitosis.

  243. #243 Tanya
    February 10, 2012

    @Fred I’m a little surprised you’re not a doctor, considering your total lack of ability to listen. You sound like quite the know-it-all and come across as very condescending.

    “You do not seem like you are ready to do the work to get better. When your suffering gets to be too much for you and you lose the little remaining audience you have, maybe you will change.”

    Have you not heard anything I’ve been saying Fred? I HAVE changed my entire lifestyle and approach to healing after following the advice of experts, for many years, got me nowhere. I have made many changes in my life, all with positive results.

    I’ve relocated to a far less polluted environment, cleaned up my diet, taken up growing my own food, become much more physically active, I am constantly learning about various ways to make myself healthier and and applying that knowledge.

    I’ve taken myself from being a nearly housebound agorophbic, experiencing 100+ “physical memories”/flashbacks of sexual abuse/day who sweat so much her feet were damaged from constant moisture, constantly craving sugar & carbs, very overweight, so unable to focus I required either complete silence or white noise and an uncluttered environment to complete simple tasks, difficulty falling asleep, multiple panic attacks/day, hair falling out, raw itchy scalp, adult acne, neck & shoulders always going out, recurring ear infections, recurring thoughts of suicide, frequent abdominal pain. This was the result of following the recommendations of doctors, psychiatrists and other medical experts for years.

    Now all of the symptoms listed above have either been eliminated completely or have improved substantially as the result of major lifestyle CHANGES.

    “I have better things to do than to argue with you about chemtrails, conspiracies, Lyme or Morgellons.”

    Ditto. I’m here to raise awareness.

    “Those topics have been discussed and explained to you quite clearly by others much more qualified and skilled than myself.”

    Where? When did this happen?

    “Do everyone a favor and keep your illness to yourself. The qualified, reputable doctors are busy enough trying to deal with patients who actually want to get better.”

    WOW. Do you HEAR how you sound? You are essentially telling me, someone you claim to believe suffers from severe mental illness, to crawl in a hole and die?! Thank you again for illustrating for us all the shameful ignorance and callousness with which Morgellon’s sufferers are treated. BEYOND PATHETIC could be used to describe more than one commenter on this page. Astonishing levels of arrogance here, holy cow!

    My connection is messed up today, so it may be a bit until my video response Part 2 is up, not that Fred has time to watch it ;)

  244. #244 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 10, 2012

    It’s starting to sink in with me that, the problem of the “us vs. them” attitude is largely because of the supposed meaning of “Conspiracy Theory.” It doesn’t automatically register with some people that the phrase was perfected in its use by public relations groups. So, the current definition and more importantly the meaning is murky. When the word “conspiracy/conspiracies” was used in reference to you, it was almost certainly intended to paint you in an insulting manner. From my research, when the conspiracy theory becomes a historical event or fact of science this new information doesn’t seem to reach those who might have once challenged it.

    I can agree with you on one point: the phrase “conspiracy theory” has definitely come to mean something more than “a theory (in the vernacular sense) about a conspiracy.”  To say that someone’s explanation of events is a conspiracy theory is definitely to imply that their theory, however intricate it may be, probably bears little resemblance to reality.

    But then you assert that “conspiracy theory” came to have this connotation because of underhanded spin-doctoring by unnamed “public relations groups.”  Maybe conspiracy theories got a bad reputation for a much, much simpler reason:  most of them are bad theories.  

    They are bad theories in the sense that instead of trying to find the conclusion that most naturally fits the evidence, they try to find a way to twist the evidence (or invent evidence entirely) so that it can still come to their desired conclusion no matter what.

    They are bad theories in the sense that, almost without exception, they are constructed to be unfalsifiable.  If you are unfamiliar with this concept, it does not mean, as some people erroneously guess, that the theory could not possibly be false.  It means that no matter how false the theory is, the theory is such that the person who believes it will never see that it is and always has been wrong.

    They are bad theories in that they do not bring believers closer to the truth, as good theorizing does, but lead them further away and weaken their ability to find their way back.  They isolate believers socially and put them through unnecessary fear and suffering.  They set believers up for the ridicule, pity and contempt of others because, freed from the constraints of reality, the believers’ theories grow unbelievably lurid, baroque and improbable, and the believers are self-blinded to this.  Is the reaction of the mainstream when exposed to these bizarre theories frequently mocking and cruel?  Yes, but that’s also frequently the reaction to someone who walks around with underpants on their head; the root cause of the mockery is the bizarre behavior, so clearly bizarre except to the person who’s doing it, convinced that it’s actually rational behavior.

    Let’s look at a theory about a conspiracy that wasn’t a conspiracy theory:  Watergate.  We had high-level political figures caught in an act of burglary and we had the President of the United States trying to minimize and hide the crime.  The theory “the President was aware of their illegal activities and may have been the one to order them” is a perfectly reasonable extrapolation from that evidence.

    Now let’s look at how “conspiracy theory” thinking goes by contrast.  There is an extremely fringe theory out there based upon a couple of individuals who claim they are the victims of “Project Monarch,” a secret CIA mind-control project that used “trauma-based mind control” to deliberately create multiple-personality disorder in certain children so they could be employed as both assassins and as sex slaves for public figures, not just political figures like Henry Kissinger but also entertainment figures like Bob Hope.  It should also be mentioned that instead of supporting each others’ stories, the two individuals who claim to be “Monarch” survivors accuse each other of having “ripped off” their tales of woe from the other.  One of the survivors, “Cathy,” tells frequently how her abuse by “Project Monarch” left her with horrific scars all over her body.  The only one who claims to ever have seen the scars is the man who effectively acts as her agent, sharing in the money she makes talking and writing about her lurid supposed history.

    As was said before, good theories try to explain the evidence.  In this case, the first question that should come to mind is:  WHAT evidence?? There isn’t any!  Even the evidence that could be revealed any time, i.e., the scars, has never been seen, and there is no good reason why someone supposedly so eager to have the truth of her past known should be withholding that evidence.  The most reasonable explanation for the evidence that actually exists is not that “Project Monarch” exists or existed, but that one very sick woman dreamed it up, another very sick woman imitated her, and one very venal man saw money to be made by playing along.

    Now this is how the people who adopt “conspiracy theories” handle evidence by contrast:  at a conference for supposed survivors of “mind control” and “ritual abuse,” Cathy was a speaker, and her lurid account was given great attention and credibility, despite not a shred of evidence to support it.  Someone did ask, however, if Project Monarch had forced Cathy into the wildly sexually promiscuous life that she claimed, why had she never contracted any sexually transmitted infections, as so many people who live sexually promiscuous lifestyles do?  The speaker, without missing a beat, hypothesized that probably “trauma-based mind control” affected the immune system and provided protection against STIs.  Think about that, for a second:  that is a medical miracle being casually hypothesized on the spot.  We know ways that bad mental states can make the immune system worse, but now we’re being told that mental torture can make the immune system awesome?  Is that really a more logical explanation of the evidence than “Cathy didn’t actually have the sex with hundreds of perverted celebrities that she claims she did”?

    Yes, there exists an “us vs. them” attitude between conspiracy theorists and the mainstream.  I think you are missing the obvious by thinking it doesn’t originate with the conspiracy theorists, who so frequently divide the world into “the brave truth-seekers who have figured out the conspiracy even though they can’t back it up with evidence,” “the sheeple who don’t agree with the conspiracy theory because they’re hoodwinked into thinking extraordinary evidence should be had before accepting extraordinary claims,” and of course “the shills and everyone else in on the conspiracy.”  Are you telling me that isn’t “us vs. them” thinking?

  245. #245 Fred
    February 10, 2012

    @Tyranny News “What’s more interesting to me is the expanse of time between the commissioning of the study in Jan 2008 and the first research article to be produced in Jan 2012.”:

    A quick Internet search seems to indicate that the CDC study may have been completed near the end of 2010. However, the study then had to go through peer review and then journal publication processes. This takes time, not a conspiracy.

  246. #246 Narad
    February 10, 2012

    @Tyranny News “What’s more interesting to me is the expanse of time between the commissioning of the study in Jan 2008 and the first research article to be produced in Jan 2012.”:

    A quick Internet search seems to indicate that the CDC study may have been completed near the end of 2010.

    For the paper in question, the following are the salient items:

    Received: April 29, 2011; Accepted: December 7, 2011; Published: January 25, 2012

    … This study was conducted among enrollees of Kaiser Permanente of Northern California (KPNC) during July 2006 through June 2008.

    Given how wide a net they cast in terms of data gathering, I don’t know that 2+ years for reduction and manuscript preparation is all that suspicious. Perhaps with more resources it could have move along more quickly.

    Yet one thing seems certain, which is that there must be some sort of implied permissible window: if this analysis came out “too quickly,” it would be just as “interesting” as the great “expanse of time.”

  247. #247 Tanya
    February 10, 2012

    @TyrannyNews Thanks for your encouraging words. I find it hilarious that it was suggested I was here looking for support, considering the kinds of topics discussed here. It is nice to know someone on here is capable of compassion.

    Whether people believe what I’m dealing with is physiological or psychological shouldn’t make a difference in how they treat me. As I’ve said before, if these people really think I am in a vulnerable state, as they claim to, they would be even more caring and gentle in their approach.

    That’s not a ploy for their sympathy, I’m trying to point out the fact that some of the posters on here make it clear that they think poking fun at and patronizing the mentally ill (or those they claim to believe to be mentally ill) is perfectly acceptable behaviour, when in fact it is deplorable.

    It reveals a great deal about their character and prejudiced and disdainful attitudes toward those facing mental health challenges.

    I suspect they feel justified in their treatment of me because at some level they know what I’m saying is true and it terrifies them, which manifests as hostility toward me.

    “Doctor Fred”, especially, reveals his feelings about the general public’s ability to think for themselves (implying he feels our thinking should be done for us by a scientific elite?), in his anger at me for misinforming people, when I don’t offer any medical advice, nor try to tell anyone what to think. I simply speak from my own experiences and research, which I have every right to do, and when I share this type of information, I expect people to do their own research and not take action based solely on my opinion.

    “From my research, when the conspiracy theory becomes a historical event or fact of science this new information doesn’t seem to reach those who might have once challenged it.”

    Or they pretend it doesn’t reach them to save face and so they can continue to live as if nothing is wrong.

    Yes, the pittance spent on this bogus study is nearly as insulting as the study’s “findings”, or lack thereof.

    I appreciate your input and for sticking up for me. :)

  248. #248 Tanya
    February 11, 2012

    “re: Still More Evidence That Morgellon’s Disease is Delusional Parasitosis” Part 2 is up on my YouTube channel, screwedworldorder.

  249. #249 Narad
    February 11, 2012

    Thanks for your encouraging words. I find it hilarious that it was suggested I was here looking for support, considering the kinds of topics discussed here. It is nice to know someone on here is capable of compassion.

    So you were looking for compassion? “Hi, I’m here for some compassion, and by the way, that involves accepting that there is some sort of amorphous nanochembildermasonschild thing going on, and make it snappy”? That version of “compassion”?

  250. #250 Tanya
    February 11, 2012

    Yes Narad, I came here for compassion. I thought ‘hmm, here’s a bunch of people who think Morgellon’s is a delusion, I’m gonna get me some compassion here.’

    Personally I try to treat everyone with compassion and respect. That’s how I was raised. It doesn’t mean I have to accept everything they believe or like everything about them. I just figure, as much as certain people frustrate and confound me, if I was in their shoes, if I had lived through their experiences, I would probably see that they have good reason to think and behave the way they do.

    I don’t ask or expect anyone to agree with or accept what I’m saying (I’m simply here to encourage people to do their own research and draw their own conclusions), but just because you disagree doesn’t mean you have to be unkind or judgemental.

    How would you feel if, like me, you believed that everyone’s bodies were infested with this manmade nano-crap, regardless of whether they are shedding fibers, and that the CDC was hiding what it knows? What if you were one of the people with seeing brightly coloured, iridescent and even moving fibers coming out of your skin on a daily basis, and the presence of those fibers was causing debilitating pain, fatigue, headaches, etc. and you were in near constant discomfort?

    Would you be mad? Would you want to do everything in your power to expose what’s going on and protect the people you care about? Perhaps if you had lived through my life experiences you would be reacting much in the same way I am. Nobody’s “better” than anyone else, as many on here seem to think.

    When I ask you to be nice to me, it’s not “for me”. I am asking you to be sensitive toward Morgellon’s sufferers and people dealing with mental illness in general, to think about how your words might affect someone who is facing a crisis.

    Anyways, check out the video “Jeff And Jan Smith – Morgellons…See What The CDC Calls Hallucinations !” and ask yourself why, if the CDC believed these fibers, which I KNOW you can see, were actually cotton or nylon fibers, as the study suggests, WHY wouldn’t they just say that people are simply MISTAKEN? This study, that DID find fibers on and in people’s skin, actually DEBUNKS the theory that Morgellon’s is delusions of infestation because it proves the participants were witnessing something tangible, regardless of what it is.

    Again, why do they not just conclude that people were mistaken as to what the fibers were, rather than suggest they were hallucinating? Obviously they want people to associate Morgellon’s with “craziness” to deter people from investigating and to cause confusion and propogate ignorance.

    How can they call us delusional if the samples people are extracting from their skin are visible to EVERYONE? If someone thought they had chicken pox, but it turned out to be an allergic reaction, you wouldn’t say that person was delusional for thinking they had chicken pox, you would say they were mistaken. Those were NOT cotton fibers they found, and by promoting the lie that it is a delusion, they can pretend the fibers they did find don’t exist!

  251. #251 Fred
    February 11, 2012

    @Tanya Doing your own research online will result in you getting incorrect, distorted information from dubious sources, such as you list from canlyme. Those long lists of nearly 100+ symptoms from Lyme disease are unfounded. The symptoms are being misinterpreted and that distorted data is being spread across the Internet. This results in patients like yourself being mislead about the real cause of their symptoms.

    There are a lot of medical doctors out there that will in fact diagnose you as having any disease that you want. They profit from it. Exploiting you is good for their business. You are an easy target for them, especially given your history.

    Delusional does not necessarily mean hallucinating. We all see those fibers in your films. However, there is no evidence that they are anything but carpet fibers and other environmental debris.

    If you look for an LLMD to diagnose you with chronic Lyme disease, I assure you that you will find one. Some will even encourage you to sell your home, cash out your life savings, and relocate near their office so that they can gain total control over your life and more easily prey on your fears.

    You post that you are a stay at home mom. This cycle of mental illness could likely continue onto your children. You need help -more help.

    It is very sad to see that some doctors are manipulating seriously ill patients in this manner. If you are the Tanya commenting in the article you posted at #149, then there should be plenty of resources available for you to receive adequate assistance, assuming you can afford it and are open to receiving it.

    Good Luck.

  252. #252 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    February 11, 2012

    Tanya,
    A delusion is a belief firmly held even though the observable evidence says otherwise.
    If someone sees fibers sticking to his/her skin, that’s not a delusion. If someone based on direct observation comes to believe that the fibers were pushed out through the skin, that’s not necessarily a delusion. If someone continues to believe the fibers are unknown to science and were pushed through the skin despite being examined and found that the fibers are common ones that can be completely explained as coming from the external environment and merely adhering to the skin, that starts to look a little delusional.
    This does not say that the fibers do not exist.

  253. #253 Tanya
    February 11, 2012

    @Fred, Obviously when I’m researching something, I don’t expect everything I come across to be 100% accurate. I have noticed that my symptoms are similar to symptoms Lyme sufferer’s complain of. Just because a symptom is listed on CanLyme or anywhere else doesn’t mean it was “scientifically proven” to have resulted from Lyme. Those lists are for reference, not diagnosis. I think considering my symptoms and how long I have had them, Lyme is worth ruling out, and where I am living I will be fortunate to find an MD at all, nevermind an “LLMD”.

    “There are a lot of medical doctors out there that will in fact diagnose you as having any disease that you want. They profit from it.”

    No, really? That’s never crossed my mind before. So you’re saying, not all doctors are honest? I’m stunned. I thought all physicians were hand-picked by the angels for their honesty and integrity. Don’t worry, Fred. I own no home, savings or other assets to exploit. Being disabled your entire adult life does that.

    EARTH TO FRED: I haven’t been “manipulated” by any doctor. I am currently under my own medical care and my health has improved substantially as a result of the steps I’ve taken based on my own research and intuition. Are you saying I should go back to doing the things that were only making me sick, depressed and at times even suicidal? Should I continue to hound doctors who have told me they don’t know what is wrong and don’t know what more they can do to help? Do you know what it’s like to be treated like a hypochondriac just because they don’t yet have the information necessary to figure out what’s wrong with you? Eventually you either let it kill you, or you take matters into your own hands, educate yourself and become your own healer.

    “If you are the Tanya commenting in the article you posted at #149, then there should be plenty of resources available for you to receive adequate assistance”

    Yes, I am that Tanya, but I don’t see what the following comment says about the resources available to me.:

    “Some common myths about Morgellon’s; 1) Morgellon’s is a skin condition. Truth is, many sufferer’s, myself included, have no lesions, and see fibers emerging from intact skin. 2) Morgellon’s is rare. There are several doctors and scientists who know Morgellon’s exists, and some of their findings suggest EVERYONE has this material in their bodies and that it is altering the structure and composition of our blood. I suspect that those showing symptoms are the ones whose systems are rejecting the material, for whatever reason. 3) Morgellon’s is a delusion. Isn’t a delusion something only you can percieve? Everyone I have shown these fibers to can see them. A growing number of doctors claim to be able to see them, too. Search “Are You Delusional? Find out now! FREE Instant Test!”. Maybe you are suffering from these delusions, too. FMI on the coverup, and what Morgellon’s really is, I recommend you search the article “CDC Calls Morgellons Nanoworms A Delusion, Protects DARPA”.”

    If not thinking for yourself, or taking responsibility for your own health is working for you, then you keep doing that. I’ll do what works for me.

  254. #254 Vicki
    February 11, 2012

    Tanya,

    As it happens, I know someone who is in pain all the time, and who sometimes has visual and olfactory hallucinations. If we’re in the same place, that person may ask me “do you smell X?” We both know my friend has a better sense of smell than I do, but my friend still finds it reassuring either to be told that no, this odor is really there, or to have me say that some unpleasant thing (like mildew) isn’t really in the house. I have also mentioned if I saw, or squashed, a bug–not just so they can clean or get bug repellent or such, but because that way my friend knows that those bugs aren’t a hallucination.

    The point is, my friend is glad to have the outside reality check. They aren’t insisting that I agree that the room smells of X or that there are insects around the lamp. My saying that I do or don’t see or smell something doesn’t make the sight or smell go away, but it does help my friend navigate the world. It means they aren’t swatting at bugs that aren’t there, or ignoring ones that are. I think it’s respectful of me to answer those questions to the best of my ability, which might be “no, I don’t see those” or “yes, I smell X” or “I’m not sure.”

  255. #255 Narad
    February 11, 2012

    When I ask you to be nice to me, it’s not “for me”. I am asking you to be sensitive toward Morgellon’s sufferers and people dealing with mental illness in general, to think about how your words might affect someone who is facing a crisis.

    Tanya, “nice” doesn’t mean anything in this context. I have taken you seriously enough to sit through the better part of 90 minutes of your Youtube monologues. If you think I am unfamiliar with mental illness and very real associated crises, you are mistaken. My experiences have not made me more inclined to indulge conspiratorial fantasies.

    The mere fact that you would say somthing like this indicates that you have some insight into what you’re doing:

    How would you feel if, like me, you believed that everyone’s bodies were infested with this manmade nano-crap, regardless of whether they are shedding fibers, and that the CDC was hiding what it knows?

    It’s up to you to decide whether the relief provided by this pursuit is adequate. Obedience to demands that “you children” “WAKE UP!” and join you on the bad trip isn’t in the cards one way or the other.

  256. #256 Narad
    February 11, 2012

    Yes, I am that Tanya, but I don’t see what the following comment says about the resources available to me.:

    Um, Tanya, the text that follows is something that you posted somewhere else.

  257. #257 Fred
    February 11, 2012

    Tanya @149 posted, “http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2096439/Morgellons-IS-real-Thousands-claim-suffer-agonising-skin-condition-doctors-claim-psychological.html”

    Tanya, Let me be more clear. Your comment included your full name and location, Tanya MacDonald, BC Canada. There are some major cities in BC Canada, and judging from your videos, you also appear to be relatively close to a major air base, Comox.

    According to Wikipedia, Comox Air Base is in Comox, BC, which is located on the eastern coast of Vancouver Island. (What I would do to see that beautiful part of the country!) Both of these would indicate to me that you can not be too far from full and competent medical services.

    Therefore, your comment does indeed indirectly indicate to me that you have access to medical resources.

  258. #258 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 11, 2012

    Isn’t a delusion something only you can percieve? Everyone I have shown these fibers to can see them.

    You seem to be confusing the words “hallucination” and “delusion.” Sensory perceptions that don’t actually exist are hallucinations. Delusions are beliefs strongly held without reference to evidence or despite contrary evidence.

    Let me give you an example. If I look out of my window and I think I see a black van, and there’s actually no van there, that’s a hallucination. If there is a black van, but immediately upon seeing it, I jump to the belief that it was sent by a secret government conspiracy out to get me, that’s a delusion.

    Note that in the latter case, everyone can see the black van. The black van really is there! But my beliefs about who’s in the van, and why it’s outside my house, are delusions, because they aren’t based on the evidence.

  259. #259 Tanya
    February 11, 2012

    Fred, as I’ve explained, I’m looking for a regular family doctor, and yes, 2 costly ferry trips away there is a city with access to more than one physician. I do occasionally see doctors about other issues, though this is normally in a walk in clinic, where I don’t see the same doctor. I have relocated to different communities a couple of times in recent years and finding a regular physician has not been a top priority over the past few years, as my health has been steadily improving and I haven’t had any recent health emergencies.

    As I explained before, I am a little wary of telling a Dr. I have Morgellon’s, although I have plans to do so once I find someone I can trust. I will not be taking anti-psychotic medications or seeing a specialist about delusions. Again, I have shown the fibers coming out of my skin to other people, and they see them, too.

    Can you honestly tell me all those fibers shown in the video “Jeff And Jan Smith – Morgellons…See What The CDC Calls Hallucinations !” are just cotton, particularly the ones that move, or that they are not embedded into the skin in some of the photos? Fibers absolutely could get suck in scar tissue or broken skin, but this is coming out of intact skin all over my entire body.

    In fact, I shed so much of it my entire house and all my electronics are infested with it. I spend an hour or more per day walking around removing this junk from surfaces in my home. A couple of times a month I spend the whole day giving my home a thorough de-fuzzing.

    I have no carpets in the house, I like to see my surroundings so I have few curtains, the laundry room is always kept closed when I’m using the dryer, and only have one small short-haired black dog. When examined closely, the majority of the fiber is red, blue and white, consistent with the colours of the majority of the ones from my skin and NOT consistent with the majority of our clothing upholstery, etc.

    I have moved a few times in recent years and within a couple of weeks, I thoroughly infested my new homes. FMI on Morgellon’s patients infesting their home environment, google the article “New, Serious
    Morgellons Revelations”. I experience and I plan on making a a video on this very subject in the near future.

    Anyways, Fred, A good doctor will examine samples and do a thorough examination, possibly even refer the patient to be examined by a dermatologist, before reaching the conclusion the patient is delusional. Anything less is malpractice and even excellent doctors can be wrong about some things. Just because I’m not popping pills from the first doctor I can find doesn’t mean I’m not taking major steps toward getting healthy. There are many paths to wellness.

  260. #260 herr doktor bimler
    February 12, 2012

    everyone’s bodies were infested with this manmade nano-crap, regardless of whether they are shedding fibers

    OMFSM the Govt. lied to me! They told me it was midichlorians in the injection!

  261. #261 Edith Prickly
    February 12, 2012

    In fact, I shed so much of it my entire house and all my electronics are infested with it. I spend an hour or more per day walking around removing this junk from surfaces in my home. A couple of times a month I spend the whole day giving my home a thorough de-fuzzing.

    Tanya, this is likely a wasted effort but I’m going to try one more time to introduce a reality check into this discussion. That stuff on your electronics is common household DUST. The people who are encouraging you to believe otherwise do not have your best interests in mind. Once again, the fibers on your skin and in your house are DUST! They are not manmade nanotech fibers. There is no conspiracy to infect everybody. For your own sake, please let go of these fantasies before you get completely untethered from reality.

  262. #262 Narad
    February 13, 2012

    Oh, great, now I’ve heard of the Red Wine Test. The photographic element is akin to that of fans of “liver flushes.”

  263. #263 Tanya
    February 13, 2012

    Vicki, you are talking about offering advice to a friend in a respectful manner. Advice you say was requested.

    What many people here have done is make jokes at the expense of someone who did not come here seeking advice. I posted because I truly believe the human race is in danger and I feel it is my responsibility to warn people.

    I am not insisting that anyone agree with or even like what I have to say. I just have trouble understanding some people’s need to be an a-hole just because they don’t agree with me. You seem to have the mistaken impression that my problem is the fact that not everyone agrees with me.

    I wonder how these guys treat religious people. Some religious folks have some pretty wacky beliefs. Do they think it’s okay to make fun of them, too? I am pretty accepting of most everyone as long as they aren’t child molesters, axe murderers or Shirley Phelps-Roper. Some of the things people believe are pretty bizarre, but that doesn’t make them a bad person who deserves to be treated disrespectfully.

    It *is* possible to vehemently disagree with someone while not being a complete prick.

    Believe it or not, I’m doing this because I care about people, even the condescending know-it-alls, because I know the majority of them are only like that because they’ve been programmed and drugged from birth so they can’t think for themselves, and to ridicule anyone who still can. We are all under mind control to some degree, clearly some more than others.

    **********************

    “If there is a black van, but immediately upon seeing it, I jump to the belief that it was sent by a secret government conspiracy out to get me, that’s a delusion.”

    Agreed 100%. However, if you have seen compelling evidence suggesting the government is planning to take you away in a black van, then that’s an informed opinion. I am not just parroting what someone else said. I have been researching the New World Order and global depopulation/eugenics “conspiracy theory” for years, and at first I was angry because I thought it couldn’t be true and that people were using false information to sell books, etc. I am a very skeptical person. I need to see or experience something for myself before I accept it as truth.

    I should also point out that not all Morgellon’s sufferers think it’s part of a conspiracy. Most don’t know what the hell it is. Are they delusional, too?

    *************************

    “Tanya, this is likely a wasted effort but I’m going to try one more time to introduce a reality check into this discussion. That stuff on your electronics is common household DUST. The people who are encouraging you to believe otherwise do not have your best interests in mind. Once again, the fibers on your skin and in your house are DUST! They are not manmade nanotech fibers. There is no conspiracy to infect everybody.”

    You seem so sure that you’re right. How do you know what you are saying is the truth? How deeply have you researched Morgellon’s? Have you ever spoken face-to-face with someone with Morgellon’s or are you just basing your conclusions on an inconclusive study and what you percieve to be popular opinion? What qualifications or experience do you have that gives you any authority to decide whether I’m delusional?

    Those who accuse me of being naive, look in the mirror. Admit that YOU can’t *prove* Morgellon’s doesn’t exist, even the CDC couldn’t prove that, and you are basing all your *assumptions* about me on your *assumptions* about Morgellon’s and nothing more. Furthermore, you are using your unfounded assumptions as justification for your mean-spirited jokes and codescending “advice”. Pretty sad that none of you seem to be able to grasp any of this, despite how smart and educated some of you seem to think you are.

  264. #264 Lawrence
    February 13, 2012

    @Tanya – the old adage is “you can’t prove a negative.”

    It isn’t up to the world to prove the Morgellons doesn’t exist, because first it has to be proven to exist at all.

    Again, you are neck-deep in a conspiracy theory that would, as has been stated before, function with perfect operation over the course of decades, made up of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of individuals – and not one had a change of heart or would be able to release actual evidence that any of what you say is actually true.

  265. #265 Edith Prickly
    February 13, 2012

    You seem so sure that you’re right. How do you know what you are saying is the truth? How deeply have you researched Morgellon’s? Have you ever spoken face-to-face with someone with Morgellon’s or are you just basing your conclusions on an inconclusive study and what you percieve to be popular opinion?

    I’ve watched your video and plowed through your many posts here – does that count as research? Your arguments are not convincing because they’re based on highly implausible conspiracy theories — to wit:

    Believe it or not, I’m doing this because I care about people, even the condescending know-it-alls, because I know the majority of them are only like that because they’ve been programmed and drugged from birth so they can’t think for themselves, and to ridicule anyone who still can. We are all under mind control to some degree, clearly some more than others.

    Sigh. The Matrix was just a movie, you know.

    What qualifications or experience do you have that gives you any authority to decide whether I’m delusional?

    I have none, and I don’t believe I ever used the word delusional. I merely pointed out that there is a much simpler explanation for the fibers that keep “infesting” your living spaces. However, I am quite familiar with most of the conspiracy theories you keep citing in support of your arguments, and the very fact that I can easily read about them online means that the cover’s been blown for quite some time, doesn’t it? And yet we’re all still here.

  266. #266 Bronze Dog
    February 13, 2012

    It doesn’t take an expert to apply Occam’s Razor to a conspiracy theory. Don’t add new entities to an explanation without some evidence-based reason why that entity is necessary to match the evidence.

    Global conspiracies would have a hard time getting anywhere. Humans are diverse creatures with their own varied motives and goals. Humans are not monolithic, obedient robots. Large conspiracies are likely to be too bogged down with motivating all their members to remain silent, that they couldn’t get anywhere. Paying out hush money and hiring assassins would quickly become a huge expense, alongside with the bureaucracy necessary to keep a huge operation coordinated. The logistics just don’t look plausible to me.

    I think if someone wanted money or power out of making a disease, it’d be much safer and easier to manufacture a scare for non-critical thinkers than to design, manufacture, and spread an actual ailment. A real disease can be discovered, studied, and potentially treated by independent scientists. Heck, depending on the nature of the manufactured ailment, diligent amateurs who understand the scientific method might be able to replicate results.

    A fake scare can simply spread by long-standing conspiracy theory tropes, since most people generally wouldn’t pay much attention to the scientists and skeptics who’d dispute the theory. A fake scare requires less manpower (just some celebrity alties), fewer materials (books, the gullible media, websites), and less coordination between agents (No need for internal consistency where irrationality rules). That’s why we have several decades worth of fake health scares and global conspiracy theories, yet the conspirators never actually achieve any of the big goals they’re supposedly after.

    If you want skeptics to take a conspiracy theory seriously, you’ll need to know why we reject so many other conspiracies and then set your theory apart from them in a way that is significant to a skeptic. And I mean the reasons skeptics talk about, not the straw man arguments in the echo chambers of the internet.

    Speaking of which, there’s one problem I always have with the trope of “think for yourself”: Often, the people who make the demand can’t seem to understand that other people might come to a different conclusion as a result of thinking for themselves.

  267. #267 TBruce
    February 13, 2012

    Tanya:

    One big problem with conspiracy theories is which ones do you believe? You claim that your research has convinced you of the “New World Order” etc. Are you also convinced that President Obama was not born in the USA, and faked his Hawaiian birth certificate? There’s lots of evidence proferred for this. Was 9/11 an inside job? There’s plenty of evidence offered for that. What about the Global Jewish Conspiracy and the protocols of the Elders of Zion? Lots of evidence there, too. Commies in the US Government plotting its overthrow in the 1950’s? Sen McCarthy had all kinds of proof. He was a Senator, after all.

    So tell me, how do you choose?

  268. #268 Lawrence
    February 13, 2012

    @TBruce – reminds me of the old Illuminati card game, where you played various conspiracy factions against each other….given the number of conspiracy theories out there, you’d think eventually you’d run out of people that weren’t involved in at least one conspiracy (and in the case of the military, some of them might have to be involved in 4 or 5, potential conspiracies, working at cross purposes).

  269. #269 Denice Walter
    February 13, 2012

    Conspiracy theories serve woo-meisters in a few ways:

    First, they *explain* why the brilliant theory( hypothesis) is not accepted by the mainstream and why the revolutionary of science is rejected instead of lauded. *Because* the powers-that-be are motivated by other interests than the truth!

    Secondly, they are diversionary tactics: if you are made aware of how incredibly corrupt and dastardly the ( government, medical establishment, corporations, science, universities, media- choose one or more) is/are you might not look at your informant’s credentials or motives. If your faith in the authorities is undermined, you’ll not listen to experts.

    They also promote an “us vs them” mentality that stokes emotional response rather than careful consideration: if you ramp up fear and get people to think of themselves as victims of powerful vested interests they may assist you in *your* fight against your enemies list( the establishment).

    @ Edith- btw-some of us have been inside the Matrix so long we can do the algebra.

  270. #270 Tanya
    February 13, 2012

    “It isn’t up to the world to prove the Morgellons doesn’t exist, because first it has to be proven to exist at all.

    Again, you are neck-deep in a conspiracy theory that would, as has been stated before, function with perfect operation over the course of decades, made up of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of individuals…”

    Not asking “the world to prove the Morgellons doesn’t exist”, just asking those who haven’t yet seen sufficient evidence to prove it to themselves to be respectful.

    The main argument against my “conspiracy theories” is that it’s too big a conspiracy and would have to be perfectly executed and have lots of people in on it to work.

    First, the plan hasn’t been perfectly executed. There are countless whistleblowers. Just last night I was watching an interview of Dr. David Graham of the FDA where he exposes that the FDA is there to serve the drug companies, not the public. (See “The FDA is there to serve the drug industry, not the public says Dr. David Graham of the FDA”).

    There is a mass awakening currently taking place and the global elite are afraid (See video “Zbigniew Brzezinski, Elite Fear Us!”). Ultimately, their plans will fail, but in the meantime the eugenics movement is in full swing, and innocent people are being murdered. Good people who value human life and freedom do whatever they can to minimize the damage and bring these gross abuses of power to an end as quickly as possible.

    “It would be too hard.” is a pretty weak argument.

    “Sigh. The Matrix was just a movie, you know.”

    So sodium fluoride, which is added to the public water and food supply hasn’t been shown to reduce IQ, isn’t the main ingredient in mood-stabilisers such as prozac, as well as sarin nerve gas, hasn’t been linked to sterility, current Whitehouse science advisor John P. Holdren never advocated mass sterilization through the water supply and no dentists have protested the fact that mass-medication using a toxic waste product (sodim fluoride) ingested orally is justified by the fact that a naturally occuring compound (calcium fluoride) is shown to have some benifit when applied topically. Dental fluorosis doesn’t exist. Oh and there is no link between fluoride and bone cancer, either.

    “I can easily read about them online means that the cover’s been blown for quite some time, doesn’t it?”

    Yeah, and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    I’ll reply to the last 2 posts in a bit.

  271. #271 herr doktor bimler
    February 13, 2012

    So sodium fluoride [...] isn’t the main ingredient in mood-stabilisers such as prozac?

    No, Tanya, it isn’t.
    Some of the SSRI family of drugs contain fluorine atoms substituting for hydrogens (no sodium, though), but not all of them do.
    But at least you’ve stopped trying to link fluorine to Nazi concentration camps, so there is some progress.

  272. #272 Fred
    February 13, 2012

    @Tanya,

    You keep complaining that people are being disrespectful to you. I think tolerance can be pushed so far before people (doctors) start pushing back. It seems like you will only be satisfied if people agree with you. Is that really what you want your doctors to do, agree with whatever you say? Don’t you go to them for their professional, trained, experienced opinions?

    At what point do you stop saying that everyone is wrong and you are right?

    What are you teaching your children? So sad…they must live in fear of everything…

  273. #273 Narad
    February 13, 2012

    So sodium fluoride … isn’t the main ingredient in sarin nerve gas

    That would be another no, Tanya.

  274. #274 Narad
    February 13, 2012

    Ah, I botched those ellipses. My inner editor is mortified.

    So sodium fluoride … isn’t the main ingredient in … sarin nerve gas

  275. #275 Edith Prickly
    February 13, 2012

    Yeah, and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    Yeah, you’re right. I’m far too lazy and complacent to make any more effort to persuade you that you’re wasting your time and energy believing mutated John Birch Society paranoid tropes. It’s your life. Keep on filming lint and telling people about the New World Order if it gives you such satisfaction. I’m unlikely to survive the great cull when the eee-veeel (like the fru-its of the dev-eeeel) depopulation program is finally launched, so you’ll get the last laugh anyway.

    @Denice – kudos! I go into bullet-time trances when confronted with algebra. I also get easily distracted by cool leather costumes and butt-kicking antics.

  276. #276 Beamup
    February 13, 2012

    IMX, the distraction factor of a leather costume has less to do with the coolness of the costume and more to do with the wearer of the costume. ;)

  277. #277 Thomas
    February 13, 2012

    Tanya,

    A quiz:

    When the government allows lengthy videos exposing their deepest secrets to appear on Youtube it means:

    1) The government hasn’t figured out the Internet yet, and thus revolutionaries can still use it to expose them
    2) The government is so confident of their victory that they don’t care whether their secrets are exposed, meaning that you’re wasting your time.
    3) The government is just biding their time before capturing all the people foolishly exposing themselves as rebels
    4) The government is paying off people to publicize millions of bogus conspiracy theories so the real conspiracies go unnoticed.
    5) You’re deluded, and no one cares what you post to Youtube as long as you don’t pose a threat to your neighbors.
    6) You’re having fun seeing how big a lie you can convince people that you believe

    Or did I miss an option?

  278. #278 herr doktor bimler
    February 13, 2012

    and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    Let the record show that I am personally in an alcohol-induced stupor.

  279. #279 Terrie
    February 13, 2012

    My stupor was induced by my cat to ensure that I do his bidding. Why do think they’ve developed such a soothing purr? It’s too keep us in perpetual slavery to our feline overlords.

  280. #280 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 13, 2012

    “… I know the majority of them [people who disagree with Tanya] are only like that because they’ve been programmed and drugged from birth so they can’t think for themselves, and to ridicule anyone who still can.”

    Exactly what part of this assumption is “respectful”?

  281. #281 Narad
    February 13, 2012

    Yeah, and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    Tanya, is that or is it not a good-sized TV that serves as a backdrop to your ten-minute video meditation on a piece of environmental detritus stuck to the end of your finger?

  282. #282 Denice Walter
    February 13, 2012

    It’s interesting that those who talk about *thinking for yourself*, not following the status quo, not being beholden to vested interests, disparaging others for being followers; inveighing against the unimpeachable authority of “experts”
    1. all sound alike ( emotional conspiracy-talk, us against the world)
    2. are instructing *their* followers to do exactly that- mimic the master’s thinking, follow the master- who has vested interests.
    3. set themselves up as experts.
    Oh well.

  283. #283 Shirley Smits
    February 13, 2012

    Take a look at the pictures of my lesions etc. on my web site morgellonsthetruth. My sores, symptoms and problems with the medical professionals are identical to Morgellons.It has taken decades to find a doctor who instantly knew what was wrong with me and diagnosed Ehlers-Danlos a ‘rare’ genetic condition that causes a mutation of collagen. Elastosis was found in half of the biopsies undertaken by the CDC. Elastosis is connected to E.D. I have been in contact with a number of Morgellon sufferers who are also hypermobile. Doctors must look for underlying conditions that cause poor wound healing and pruritis. People are unnecessarily suffering with genuine physical illnesses for years on end. I wonder how many dermatologists have degrees in psychiatry to justify labelling patients with a psychiatric condition? The dermatologist flatly refused to do any tests on the sore on my nose a year ago and discharged me. Two hospital consultants have spotted this sore recently and urged my G.P. to refer me to a dermatologist as they are of the opinion that it is a Basal Cell Carcinoma. Show me a better person who could come through all this sane.

  284. #284 dedicated lurker
    February 13, 2012

    My sister and I made up a parody conspiracy theory, that the Cold War was a hoax, and made up a fake organization devoted to it, FCRAP (False Coldwar Revelation Awareness People). If you go visit whale.to, there’s something very similar there. I haven’t seen anyone advance our other parody conspiracy theory, that the town of Deerfield, Massachusetts doesn’t exist, but after some time on the internet I wouldn’t be surprised if it was out there.

  285. #285 Denice Walter
    February 13, 2012

    @ dedicated lurker:
    Believe me, it doesn’t exist, I’ve been there: there’s nothing there.

  286. #286 lilady
    February 13, 2012

    “Take a look at the pictures of my lesions etc. on my web site morgellonsthetruth. My sores, symptoms and problems with the medical professionals are identical to Morgellons.It has taken decades to find a doctor who instantly knew what was wrong with me and diagnosed Ehlers-Danlos a ‘rare’ genetic condition that causes a mutation of collagen. Elastosis was found in half of the biopsies undertaken by the CDC. Elastosis is connected to E.D.”

    Solar elastosis a.k.a. “actinic elastosis” (hyper-pigmented scaly lesions associated with sun exposure) were the only “elastosis-type” lesions reported by the CDC. Actinic elastosis lesions were the most common histopathologic finding (51 % of skin biopsies).

    The CDC report did not report any biopsies where the histopathologic finding was “elastosis perforans serpiginosis”, which is a rare connective tissue disorder and can also be seen in other genetic disorders such as Down Syndrome of Ehlers-Danos Syndrome:

    http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1074280-overview

  287. #287 Tanya
    February 14, 2012

    “The logistics just don’t look plausible to me.”

    Watch Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement to get the basics of who is involved and how it works.

    “A real disease can be discovered, studied, and potentially treated by independent scientists.”

    Well again, Morgellon’s isn’t a disease, it’s a syndrome. It is how the body reacts to the presence of this material which we all have inside of us and the independant scientists who actually have the balls to research Morgellon’s already know a lot about Morgellon’s. They know what it’s made of, how it replicates in the human body and how to slow down that process, to some degree.

    Of course these are not publicly funded studies, nor will the CDC, WHO etc. listen to the independant researchers, whose findings condradict with what these governing bodies want the public to believe about Morgellon’s. For further information on what is now known about Morgellon’s, watch, “Chemtrails and Morgellons – Dark Agenda of Synthetic Biology 2011″ on YouTube, with an open mind and heart.

    “the conspirators never actually achieve any of the big goals they’re supposedly after”

    Oh, really? Again, see Endgame, research the New World Order because you’re living in it. Learn about eugenics and soft-kill weapons because you are their victim.

    “there’s one problem I always have with the trope of “think for yourself”: Often, the people who make the demand can’t seem to understand that other people might come to a different conclusion as a result of thinking for themselves.”

    I have that same problem.

    “One big problem with conspiracy theories is which ones do you believe?…how do you choose?”

    How do you choose what to believe and what not to? I look at both sides of the coin, gathering information from a variety of sources, and going with what I feel, on a gut level, to be correct. Not going to make a list of all the conspiracies I believe to be true, and which ones I don’t, or have insufficient information to form an opinion about.

    “If your faith in the authorities is undermined, you’ll not listen to experts.”

    Listening to experts doesn’t mean blindly following all of their advice. The opinions of so-called experts vary greatly and if you have seen countless examples of the corruption and negligence of “experts”, it’s only wise to be wary and think critically when seeking advice.

    “You keep complaining that people are being disrespectful to you. I think tolerance can be pushed so far before people (doctors) start pushing back. It seems like you will only be satisfied if people agree with you. Is that really what you want your doctors to do, agree with whatever you say? Don’t you go to them for their professional, trained, experienced opinions? ”

    I think I’ve made it pretty clear that I am not complaining about the way “doctors” are treating me and that I’m referring to some of the commenters, yourself among them. As stated several times, I have not told any doctors I have Morgellon’s yet. I am not looking for a doctor who will only tell me what they think I want to hear, and no, I would not discuss the New World Order or my belief that Morgellon’s is part of the eugenics agenda with physicians unless I knew they were “awake”, too.

    A “professional, trained, experienced” doctor would never declare that a Morgellon’s sufferer was delusional based on an inconclusive study and without examining the fibers and the patient’s skin for themselves. Some doctors HAVE really looked into Morgellon’s and are convinced these fibers ARE coming from from patient’s skin and that they are NOT textile fibers.

    “What are you teaching your children? So sad…they must live in fear of everything…”

    Yes, how terribly sad. A mother who fights tooth and nail to save herself and her family and to help create a safer, more peaceful world for them. Alert the authorities, lol!

    I teach them to think for themselves and to fear nothing. I often say “Don’t believe me just because I’m your mom, or because you think I’m a nice person.” I am a mother, not a programmer. My job is not to teach them what to think, but to encourage them to think critically while keeping an open mind.

    If I think a piece of information is vital, and age-appropriate, I might share it, but generally I try to shelter my family from the more stressful aspects of life. The kinds of things we are discussing here can be very frightening for children and I am trying to provide as emotionally healthy and stable an environment as possible.

    herr doktor bimler, if you think fluoride is good for you, drink up! Personally, the fluoride issue hasn’t been my top priority and I haven’t double-checked everything I’ve heard about it. Thanks for keeping me on my toes! You are correct that it is not SODIUM fluoride in Prozac or Sarin, although fluoride compounds are key ingredients in both.

    Does it really matter? A drug that has been found to reduce IQ, increase the risk of developing certain cancers and adversely affect fertility in most animal species is being added to much of the world’s water supply, as well as the food supply via canned and prepared food made with fluoridated water. That alone should have people up in arms and the reason it doesn’t is because most people are on fluoride. Under most circumstances, people should be free to decide for themselves whether or not they want to be medicated. Surely you can agree with that.

    Thomas, you missed one. 7) If they always censored certain types of information it would become obvious to slaves like you that they were hiding something. It is much easier to hypnotize you to laugh off such ideas using the media and mass medication than to silence every dissenting voice.

    “Tanya, is that or is it not a good-sized TV that serves as a backdrop to your ten-minute video meditation on a piece of environmental detritus stuck to the end of your finger?”

    I haven’t had cable for several years. I have a DVD player and the TV is used for videos. Really grasping at straws, aren’t we?

    @Shirley “I wonder how many dermatologists have degrees in psychiatry to justify labelling patients with a psychiatric condition?”

    Looking at some of the comments here, it would appear many don’t need to have any medical background whatsoever to make such a diagnosis. I have heard of your blog before, and will check it out.

    Anyways, guys, it’s been fun but I think it’s time to move on. Keep checking my channel, screwedorldorder. The digital kids’ microscope I picked up at the thrift shop for 3 bucks actually works pretty good. Last night I found a particularly active fiber and shot some footage at 10x and 60x magnification. A lot of the movement can’t be explained by airflow or static. You’ll see. Now that that’s set up I hope to be putting up videos on a more regular basis.

    I also am going to be posting an article on my blog very soon about ways to mitigate the symptoms of Morgellon’s, so look for that in the near future.

    Cheers, Tanya :)

  288. #288 ebohlman
    February 14, 2012

    Denice #281: It looks like exactly the same phenomenon seen among self-styled adolescent outcasts, where all the “non-conformists” closely follow a small number of pre-defined patterns of non-conformity. “My pigeonhole is more transgressive than yours!” Yeah, but at the end of the day, it’s still a pigeonhole.

  289. #289 Terrie
    February 14, 2012

    Well, if Tanya listens to her “gut” that explains a LOT. The gut is notoriously stupid. I’m willing to bet that she also doesn’t understand that magnification also increases the visibility of movement. Under enough magnification, you can actually see the hour hand on an analog watch move. Cool, but pointless.

  290. #290 Narad
    February 14, 2012

    You are correct that it is not SODIUM fluoride in Prozac or Sarin, although fluoride compounds are key ingredients in both.

    Wrong again. If you want to yammer on about sarin, you should be complaining about phosphorus, which is the key to the inhibition of acetylcholinesterase, which is the whole point.

  291. #291 lilady
    February 14, 2012

    Could Tanya be getting all her (mis)information from YouTube?:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfgewAieQW4

  292. #292 Narad
    February 14, 2012

    I haven’t had cable for several years. I have a DVD player and the TV is used for videos. Really grasping at straws, aren’t we?

    Not really. Let’s review:

    Yeah, and most people are in a drug/tv-trance-induced stupor, think it’s a joke, and are too lazy and complacent to figure out that it’s not.

    What is the mechanism of the “tv-trance-induced stupor”? Now it’s not just the moving pictures in the magic box, but how they’re delivered to the set? What makes you think the mind-control signal isn’t conveyed via the mains? Maybe you’re not as “awake” as you surmise.

  293. #293 Lawrence
    February 14, 2012

    Tanya is perfect example of the people that Matt Tabibi talks about in “The Great Derangement.”

  294. #294 dedicated lurker
    February 14, 2012

    Since I don’t own a TV (in fairness I would if I was able to get all the Red Sox games on it) am I being hypnotized by the TV’s in neighboring apartments? Or the one downstairs the night guard watches?

  295. #295 Fred
    February 14, 2012

    “…the independant scientists who actually have the balls to research Morgellon’s already know a lot about Morgellon’s. They know what it’s made of, how it replicates in the human body and how to slow down that process, to some degree.

    Of course these are not publicly funded studies, nor will the CDC, WHO etc. listen to the independant researchers, whose findings condradict with what these governing bodies want the public to believe about Morgellon’s. “

    Tanya, the scientists that specialize in diagnosing Morgellons are some of the same scientists that have been found guilty of scientific fraud. How can you trust those type of scientists? See my previous comment at #98.

    Morgellons expert Dr. Raphael Stricker’s studies are no longer funded by the NIH because he was found guilty of scientific misconduct. http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/not93-177.html

  296. #296 lilady
    February 14, 2012

    “Since I don’t own a TV (in fairness I would if I was able to get all the Red Sox games on it) am I being hypnotized by the TV’s in neighboring apartments? Or the one downstairs the night guard watches?”

    The more *likely* scenario is that one of the Morgellons fibers that we all have within our bodies (according to Tanya), is an antenna. You just think you are safe from hypnotism…your computer is broadcasting those hypnotic messages to your antenna/Morgellons fiber.

  297. #297 Fred
    February 14, 2012

    The more *likely* scenario is that one of the Morgellons fibers that we all have within our bodies (according to Tanya), is an antenna. You just think you are safe from hypnotism…your computer is broadcasting those hypnotic messages to your antenna/Morgellons fiber.

    According to some LLMDs, it’s not the Morgellons antennas that cause such ravaging syndromes, but rather the EMF’s surrounding all of us. They say the only way to combat the evil EMFs is to purchase their specialty products and cover your bodies with silver-coated clothing, use silver-coated cloth curtains and bed canopies and protect your home with special shielding graphite house paint. (That is if you can afford to own a home after purchasing all of their recommended products.) See the recent Mercola interview with LLMD Dr. Deitrich Klinghardt for more important details.

  298. #298 Fred
    February 14, 2012

    Additionally, if you purchase their special shielding products, use their special Lyme-literate providers and testing labs, then you should know “you’re not only treating Lyme disease but you’re preventing cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease”.

    Tanya, it seems the best way to get rid of Morgellons and Lyme is to follow their every instruction and purchase everything they suggest. After all, the LLMDs are some of the finest Morgellons experts.

  299. #299 Calli Arcale
    February 14, 2012

    lilady:

    You are reminding me of the movie “Withnail & I”, which has a delightfully bizarre scene where the protagonists meet with their drug supplier, Danny, who offers up this piece of advice:

    “I don’t advise a haircut, man. All hairdressers are in the employment of the government. Hair are your aerials. They pick up signals from the cosmos and transmit them directly into the brain. This is the reason bald-headed men are uptight.”

  300. #300 W. Kevin Vicklund
    February 14, 2012

    Watch Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement to get the basics of who is involved and how it works.

    The logistics just don’t look plausible to me.

  301. #301 TBruce
    February 14, 2012

    How do you choose what to believe and what not to? I look at both sides of the coin, gathering information from a variety of sources, and going with what I feel, on a gut level, to be correct.

    Good lord, talk about missing the point! I gave examples of the more ridiculous conspiracy theories out there that have as much supporting evidence as her New World Order wharrgarble. Not only is she profoundly “hard of thinking”, but she appears to have absolutely no sense of humour.

    Well, if Tanya listens to her “gut” that explains a LOT. The gut is notoriously stupid.

    – and we all know what the lower gut is full of.

  302. #303 lilady
    February 14, 2012

    “Well again, Morgellon’s isn’t a disease, it’s a syndrome. It is how the body reacts to the presence of this material which we all have inside of us and the independant scientists who actually have the balls to research Morgellon’s already know a lot about Morgellon’s. They know what it’s made of, how it replicates in the human body and how to slow down that process, to some degree.”

    It seems to me that surgeons would have observed “this material which we all have inside of us”; certainly surgeons who perform delicate micro-surgical procedures would be able retrieve a specimen for analysis.

    Why would a histopathologist, a surgeon or a medical examiner deliberately hide “this material”? According to Tanya they are all part of the “conspiracy” and lack the “balls” to pursue the science of *MSF* (Morgellon-Specific-Fiberology).

  303. #304 herr doktor bimler
    February 14, 2012

    I am still wondering why someone who has no skin lesions or formication — two of the three symptoms used by the Morgellons believers to define the condition — believes that she has it.

    Delusional parasitosis? How can that be? I have it, and I KNOW I don’t have parasites or “body bugs”, nor do I have any lesions/sores.

    The fibre-extrusion phenomenon is all very interesting, but it is muddying the water to group it with the Morgellons condition, and one can only speculate how the people on the Morgellons bulletin-boards react to someone trying to steal their mantle.

  304. #305 Narad
    February 14, 2012

    one can only speculate how the people on the Morgellons bulletin-boards react to someone trying to steal their mantle

    And mispronouncing it in one’s videos, to boot. What I can’t figure out is where the nanotech was coming from in the 17th century.

  305. #306 Sauceress
    February 14, 2012

    #298 Calli Arcale

    They pick up signals from the cosmos and transmit them directly into the brain.

    Hey I too haz seen one of dem Gubmint fibre aerials moving around picking up signals!!111!!!!

  306. #307 herr doktor bimler
    February 14, 2012
  307. #308 herr doktor bimler
    February 14, 2012

    And mispronouncing it
    I had wondered about the apostrophe in “Morgellon’s”, and who is this Morgellon after whom the condition is named.

  308. #309 El Jay
    February 15, 2012

    My curiosity is piqued.

    Tanya #114:

    self-assembling, self-replicating nanotech that is literally genetically modifying the entire human species

    Tanya #144:

    everyone, not just those presenting syptoms, has the nano particles responsible for Morgellon’s in their bloodstream, and that it is altering the structure and composition of ALL of our blood

    What modifications are being made, and what is the purpose of these modifications?

  309. #310 Militant Agnostic
    February 15, 2012

    Tanya – is stopgeoengineering.com your blog?

    Do you believe that Queen Elizabeth II and/or Stephen Harper are shapeshifting liards? This is not a rhetorical question since there is a link to David Icke’s website on stopgeoengineering.com.

    Does anyone have or have a link to a Cole’s Notes version of
    Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement? Or is it just standard Alex Jones incoherent nonsense?

  310. #311 Beamup
    February 15, 2012

    Hey, just a couple days ago I was watching a BBC news report where it documented how the British government has been taken over by alien lizards in suits made of human skin.

    They even had a Doctor on telling all about where the alien lizards were from. Not quite sure of his name, though…

    ;)

  311. #312 Calli Arcale
    February 15, 2012

    I didn’t catch his name either, but I think they said the aliens were from Raxicoricofallipatorius. And they weren’t lizards, but were very vulnerable to acetic acid.

  312. #313 Beamup
    February 15, 2012

    Well, they LOOKED like lizards. Close enough, I’d say.

  313. #314 Edith Prickly
    February 15, 2012

    Oh, the Slitheen. They aren’t really lizards, just amoral intergalactic disaster capitalists.

    The real lizard people live somewhere under Wales: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hungry_Earth

  314. #315 TBruce
    February 15, 2012

    Do you believe that Queen Elizabeth II and/or Stephen Harper are shapeshifting li(z)ards?

    Well, Frank magazine routinely referred to the Canadian Federal election as The Running of the Reptiles.

    Coincidence? I think not!

  315. #316 Edith Prickly
    February 15, 2012

    Watch Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement to get the basics of who is involved and how it works.

    Tell you what, Tanya – I’ll watch Endgame if you promise to read all of the article I’ve linked below, The Paranoid Style in American Politics. I know it’s from 1964, but a lot of it should sound familiar…

    http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/conspiracy_theory/the_paranoid_mentality/the_paranoid_style.html

  316. #317 Terrie
    February 15, 2012

    Interesting tidbit. I was trying to remove glitter from my hair (totally unrelated long story), when a strand of hair snapped and the end embedded itself in the skin of my finger.

  317. #318 Hinterlander
    February 15, 2012

    Terrie – hairdressers complain of this too. The embedded hairs can cause nasty infections.

  318. #319 Tanya
    February 15, 2012

    Hey guys. Pulling those other videos because the one I just made is more to the point, and some of the stuff I talked about before I’m not sure how I feel about sharing yet. I thank you guys because I’ve been wanting to start a vlog on Morgellons for a while now but I’m a major camera-phobe and have been putting it off. You motivated me to overcome those fears and I appreciate it, even if I don’t appreciate the tone of many of the comments here. I hope you will one day learn to approach things you fear or don’t understand with a more open mind and heart.

    My new video , which can be found on my YouTube channel, screwedworldorder, is called “MorgVlog #1: PLEASE! Show Some Compassion Toward Morgellons Sufferer’s!” This one’s only 10 minutes (I had notes!). Please check it out.

  319. #320 christina
    February 17, 2012

    Explain please. My whole family has morgellons including my new 3 month old son.my 2 yr old daughter .they have weird scratches that appear overnight. And fibers cominf out of their skin.my husband has a scrtch in the middle of his back and just got his first lesion the ones that are teardrop shaped and grow a crusty film.that is about 2 inches from the scratch. I have lesions everywhere I’m sure the family caught it from me cause I am the worst. So now how can you say a whole family is delusional.why didn’t kaiser do any studies on smaller children or babies that don’t think of things like fibers all they know is iit itches. So cdc says my 3 month old and 2 yr old and 2 grown adults are dilusional…hmmm guess they aren’t the brightest bullbs in the box then.instead of paying their 13 yrs or older kaiser lab rats in calli why don’t they come to dallas and research on my family. Cause then their would be proof that it is their fault for something and they don’t want to be sued or just scared once everyone finds out this is real whatever u want to call it they won’t know what to do because they waisted 600 mil on nothiing instead of finding a real cure.open your eyes its out there and since there is no cure who knows who’s family is next.

  320. #321 Sauceress
    February 17, 2012

    instead of paying their 13 yrs or older kaiser lab rats in calli why don’t they come to dallas and research on my family.

    Out of curiosity Christina, do you believe there is a conspiracy or cover up re Morgellons ?

    Perhaps you could contact the Dermatology Department at the University University of Rochester School of Medicine? I’m sure they would be interested to hear from you. Perhaps they could refer you on to someone in your area for tests.

    What about detailing your case and presenting it in writing to Dianne Feinstein? It’s quite possible she would be able to advise you as to contacts re an investigation. Just a few suggestions of the top of my head.

  321. #322 TBruce
    February 17, 2012

    christina:

    Before jumping to conclusions, you should have your family evaluated for scabies. It can spread through a family, cause intense itching, and can be difficult to diagnose if it’s not considered in the differential diagnosis. Scratching can be done while the sufferer is asleep, which could explain lesions “spontaneously” appearing overnight.

  322. #323 Fred
    February 17, 2012

    This is from last years Morgellons blog entry, which Tanya is still posting comments on.

    Tanya asked,

    What about Victoria, of the DailyMail article, who devotes so much of her time to helping other Morgellons sufferers get better? I have never seen her speak of conspiracies, yet she is also subject to ongoing verbal abuse and harassment over the internet.

    This is one of many videos Victoria has posted on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ebzAVGzO-A&feature=endscreen&NR=1

    Victoria states @8:18 “I think Morgellons is a bit more than a skin condition. I think it is a bit of a chemical..bioterrorist chemical weapon”. She does not use the word “conspiracy”, but she does seem to think it is a chemical weapon.

    Victoria makes the following statements across her videos. She states that she self-diagnosed herself by researching Morgellons on the Internet. At times she refers to the fibers as biofilms, explaining that biofilm surrounds everything. It is on the carpets, in her house, the furniture, anything that is a textile. She states that biofilm does not like Vaseline being put on the skin, nor does it like alcohol, salt, or hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide stings when put on her skin, but it is a good test, she says. If you have Morgellons, peroxide stings because it draws out the fibers bringing them to the surface and it creates a white “thing” on the skin. It hurts. If you do not have Morgellons, then hydrogen peroxide will not sting and it will not create a white “thing” on the skin.

    Victoria mentions that she is surrounded by supportive family and friends that believe her. Clearly, based on the above paragraph, she is drawing incorrect conclusions. (I will stop calling them delusions for the time being). Such support can be detrimental when it reinforces the patients incorrect conclusions. Her support system is either ignorant as to the effects of hydrogen peroxide, salt and other chemicals, or they are simply humoring her in a misguided attempt to give her reassurance and comfort. Tanya, which do you prefer, bull sh** or the straight facts?

    Do you see how Victoria is making incorrect conclusions, mixing facts with fiction? She seems to be taking bits and pieces of information from the Internet, some good and some bad, and blending them into her own version of reality. Many people have sensitive skin that stings when alcohol or salt is poured on it. Hydrogen peroxide causes skin to turn white (maybe someone else here will explain to you exactly why that is), but it does not mean that anyone has fibers or biofilms coming out of their body nor is it a definitive test for any disease. Peroxide causes my fingertips to turn a bit white, but I do not share your condition.

    Tanya, many people here have explained to you early on in a very straight-forward, supportive, educational fashion exactly how the conclusions you are making are incorrect. All anyone can do is try and educate you. Personally, I think they have done a damn good job of it. I have learned quite a bit here myself. You took the conversation to another level when you started antagonizing people.

  323. #324 Militant Agnostic
    February 17, 2012

    On this or on one of the Emily threads someone mentioned the absence of contrails/chemtrails during the immediate post 9/11 period* and the effect on temperature. This led me riff on Robert Anton Wilson (Illuminatus Trilogy) and wonder whether history is driven not by warring secret societies, but by warring conspiracy theories. In this scenario, the 9/11 attacks were of the chemtrail CTers who sought to ground all aviation and thereby prevent the spraying of mind control chemicals. They hoped that this interruption would allow the sheeple to awaken and realize the nefarious plans of the NWO.

    *My father was fly fishing in the Northwest Territories at the time and they realized that something serious had happened long before they were informed by the fishing lodge owner, because they noticed the disappearance of contrails from the sky. The numerous overseas flights that would have passed over the Canadian Arctic were diverted to the first place they could land.

  324. #325 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    Hey Christina, welcome to the love room! I am sorry to hear what you and your family are going through. In the next installment of my vlog I will be discussing ways I have found to mitigate symptoms. I’m very busy over the next week, so that probably won’t be up for at least a week and a half, but I will post some of the methods I will be covering on here later today. Oh, and it was only 600 thousand they spent!

  325. #326 Narad
    February 17, 2012

    In the next installment of my vlog I will be discussing ways I have found to mitigate symptoms.

    Tanya, you have basically stated that you don’t have Morgellons in the first place:

    I’m a fellow Morgy, although fortunately I don’t get the skin symptoms like you do. Lots of fibers and a bit of itching when I’m due for a bath, but my main issues are with fatigue and chronic pain.

    You’re a bit itchy when you’re due for a bath. Well, knock me over with a feather. And you’ve got endlessly distracting lint. Nonetheless, your “vlog” will address the mitigation of “weird scratches that appear overnight” and “teardrop-shaped” lesions that “grow a crusty film”?

    You’re a Morgellons hanger-on who has appointed herself some sort of Holy Mother to boot. As noted above, Christina may be dealing with an actual contagious condition. Instead, however, one gets Tanya appropriating the situation to complain about Tanya’s treatment in “the love room.”

  326. #327 Edith Prickly
    February 17, 2012

    Tanya, I’m pretty sure the one thing Christina doesn’t need is advice from a conspiracy nut and self-aggrandizing drama queen who isn’t actually suffering from any physical symptoms.

  327. #328 Fred
    February 17, 2012

    Tanya, I hope you can see how seriously dangerous it could be for you to promote your false ideas onto vulnerable patients like Christina and her family.

    You might not have much respect for doctors, but I hope at least you will read the comment @321 by TBruce. A lot of things could cause Christina’s symptoms. It is wrong for you to flood the Internet (YouTube) and forums like this with a bunch of bogus delusional allegations and lure in other patients into your emotional nightmare. Other people could have legitimate medical conditions that need addressing, yet mistakenly ally with your delusions and never receive proper care.

  328. #329 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    Edith PRICKly…

    “isn’t actually suffering from any physical symptoms.”…

    Hmmm,

    Daily headaches/migraines, circulatory problems, excessive perspiration, joint and muscle pain, joints constantly popping and cracking, debilitating fatigue, insomnia, shedding thousands of fibers daily, digestive issues, persistent “acne” and scalp that was always raw, scabby and itchy prior to moving to an area with untreated water, coughing up brown, streaky goop, blurred vision, fluid coming out of ears (again, frequent ear infections until I moved). So itchy that I would sometimes scratch arms and legs until they bled before moving and making dietary and lifestyle changes. Oh and Edith, I usually bathe for about an hour, twice/day and so “due for a bath” generally means I haven’t bathed in 12 hours. Generally when I start perspiring I do feel like there are bugs crawling all over my head. I also haven’t been able to tolerate most fabrics for many years, as they make me itch like crazy.

    When I am out of marijuana (yes, I’m a medical pothead, hahaha), which pretty much knocks me out cold at night, and I am trying to sleep, I notice the itching a lot more, and I know a lot of Morgy’s who say the itching is just background noise until they go to bed.

    Nope, no physical symptoms whatsoever!

    I am not in severe distress over itching because I do a LOT to keep that under control and this may be why I don’t have lesions (genetics may also play a role). Ocassionally after adding certain things to the bath I do get what look like tiny cat scratches, although that is rare.

    Yes, I’m sure what Christina really needs is to be made fun of and patronized by a bunch of science dweebs engaged in an intellectual pissing contest! How about letting her decide what she needs, or doesn’t?

    I’ll be back on in a bit with that info, Christina.

  329. #330 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    Put a sock in it, Fred!

  330. #331 Scottynuke
    February 17, 2012

    I do believe the best use of Fred’s sock would be to cover up Tanya’s webcam so we’re all spared any further vlogorreah…

  331. #332 Narad
    February 17, 2012

    Put a sock in it, Fred!

    Tanya, you are now resorting to foot-stamping.

  332. #333 Tanya
    February 17, 2012

    “Tanya, you are now resorting to foot-stamping.”

    Oh, noes!

  333. #334 Sauceress
    February 17, 2012

    Tanya

    Yes, I’m sure what Christina really needs is to be made fun of and patronized by a bunch of science dweebs engaged in an intellectual pissing contest!

    Who is making fun of Christina? Who is patronising her? Projecting your own paranoia and persecution complex much there Tanya?

    Edith Prickly #326

    the one thing Christina doesn’t need is advice from a conspiracy nut and self-aggrandizing drama queen

    Drama queen indeed!

  334. #335 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    Hi, Christina

    Not going to have enough time tonight to get this all down, so whatever I miss, I’ll post tomorrow.

    I’ve known I had Morgellons for about a year and a half. Around the time I was starting to suspect I had Morgellons I was in the middle of relocating to a cleaner, less polluted environment for health reasons. I had been symptomatic for over 15 years and knew I needed to breathe clean air, drink and bathe in clean water and live in a place where I could grow my own food. On a fixed income, living in the city, I was able to afford to rent a 496 sq. ft. apartment with no yard. In a more rural setting, where rent is much cheaper, I am now able to live in a cozy-yet-spacious 2 bedroom house, with a good-sized yard and garden. The great thing about where I’m at now, well, one of the great things, is that my back gate opens to a beautiful saltwater lagoon, which is a godsend when you’ve got Morgellons.

    Prior to noticing the fibers, which I noticed in my home before I actually realized they were coming from me, I was already spending a lot of time in hot baths for relief of chronic pain and itchy skin. At the time, I had to use medicated shampoo daily or my scalp felt like it was on fire, and I was always scratching my arms and legs. I suspect the years of regular long, hot baths may have been what prevented me from getting lesions.

    Anyways, I noticed that my scalp issues seemed to vanish magically, in about 2 weeks, when I moved and started bathing in and drinking untreated water. So my first tip, if it is feasible, is to bathe in untreated water (ie, no chemicals added, or chemicals filtered out). I do recommend occasionally bathing or swimming in chlorinated water, as I do notice WAY more fibers when I am visiting my mom’s and drinking and bathing in chlorinated water. I normally visit once/month and try to take as many baths as I can while I’m there because of the amount of material it draws out.

    I think one of the main tricks to managing Morgellons is keeping the fibers flowing out so that they cannot build up in and under the skin.

    Here is a list of things that either draw (external) or drive (internal) out the fibers. Some of this you most likely know already, but I will list everything anyways, even the basic stuff, in approximate order of importance. Of course we are all different, so what is effective for me may not be as effective for you. I find that what is effective for me one day, may do little good the next, therefore, it is a good idea to have a lot of weapons in your arsenal and keep switching them up so the Morgellons doesn’t have a chance to build up a resistance, which it appears to do.

    External:

    Salt (sea, epsom and table salt are all fine, though I prefer sea salt) and baking soda. Add generous amounts (experiment with varying quantities, I use anywhere from a half to 2 cups of each, sometimes more) to your bath water, use them together or on their own. You can also add a bit of water &/or soap to either and make an exfoliating scrub. Often when I do this I purge extra-long fibers. The longest I have seen was about 7 inches, but some people get foot-long ones!

    Dish soap. Use it like bubble bath. Add salt or baking soda for added effectiveness. The 2 brands I have seen the most dramatic results with are Great Value (WalMart brand) Ultra lemon dish liquid and VIP Ruby Red Grapefruit Dish Liquid. Rinse well afterward, as it can leave an irritating film.

    Ayurvedic products. Auromere makes amazing poducts for the skin that smell awesome, too. My favourites are their Tulsi-Neem and Sandalwood-Turmeric soaps, as well as their mudbath. Make a paste and use as an all-over body mask for optimum results. I also really like Chandrika soap. Ayurvedic soaps are generally quite astringent, so your skin will look and feel a lot smoother when you use them.

    Tea Tree Oil Shampoo. I have tried a few brands with similar results. Very soothing to the scalp and for added benefit, you can add a few drops of tea tree oil to the shampoo, as well as to your bath water. Another essential oil I have had excellent results with is wild oil of oregano, although I would suggest starting with no more than 10 drops, as too much too soon can sting. You can apply it directly to the skin as well, but be careful, as again, it can be painful, especially when applied to the areas where you are seeing the most fibers. Generally after a couple uses, your skin adjusts and you can use more.

    I try to bathe twice/day in the winter months when swimming isn’t an option. I get best results when I keep the temperature high and stay in as long as possible. Of course you want to be careful about giving your children hot baths, or using additives that could irritate their eyes. Dish soap baths probably aren’t suitable for little ones. You should also consult with a physician if you have heart problems and are planning on taking hot baths or use a hot tub.

    Sun. Spend as much time, with as much skin exposed in direct sunlight, without burning, of course. I used to have tiny bumps all over my arms (keratosis pilaris?) since I was a child and cleared it up completely a few years ago one summer by just spending as much time as possible in the sun. I also know someone with psoriasis who get significant relief from sun exposure. Not only does sunlight improve the condition of your skin (so long as you avoid excessive exposure – use common sense), but it also helps lift the depression associated with Morgellons. I always feel much healthier, happier and more energetic in the spring and summer when there is plenty of sunshine to enjoy!

    Morgellons fibers love to hide out in hair, so short hair is best. I chopped all mine off last summer (was about 1/2 way down my back), and feel much cleaner, less itchy and it’s just a whole lot easier to take care of.

    What I am hearing is that the ULTIMATE treatment for Morgellons is the far-infrared sauna, which I can’t currently afford, but am planning to buy ASAP. I have witnessed a dramatic reduction in skin lesions in Morgellons patients who have access to an infrared sauna.

    Tomorrow I will discuss some things you can do to mitigate the symptoms from the inside, including dietary changes and the use of supplements, as well as how to manage household fibers and take care of your emotional well-being.

    Cheers,
    Tanya

  335. #336 Narad
    February 18, 2012

    “Tanya, you are now resorting to foot-stamping.”

    Oh, noes!

    *plonk*

  336. #337 Sauceress
    February 18, 2012

    Don’t you have your own blog Tanya?

  337. #338 Fred
    February 18, 2012

    Tanya, Another explanation as to how some of your symptoms “magically” reduced after you relocated from the stressful, cramped city apartment to what sounds like a lakeside (pondside) country home is due to the reduction in emotional stress. Less stress oftentimes leads to less physical and emotional symptoms.

    I purge extra-long fibers. The longest I have seen was about 7 inches, but some people get foot-long ones!

    I am curious, do people here think that Tanya really “sees” these fibers she purges, as in a hallucination? I see that her videos do appear to show common lint and everyday fibers.

    Do you think she is fabricating these beliefs so as to get attention out of loneliness and isolation, maybe a convoluted prank being taken too far, or does she really believe everything she is writing?

  338. #339 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    “Do you think she is fabricating these beliefs so as to get attention out of loneliness and isolation, maybe a convoluted prank being taken too far, or does she really believe everything she is writing?”

    Do you think it is fun to be spoken of this way when you are going through the most challenging time in your life and only trying to help others in the same situation and let them know you’re not alone.

    I think not being believed is one of the themes in my life. Learning to overcome the opinions of ignorant people who, out of fear, or lack of understanding, choose to believe I’m lying, rather than open their minds and see that maybe there is truth to what I’m saying. Did you check out that photo I referred to in my post (#262) on the 2011 Morgellons article.

    I remember when I decided to press charges against that psychopath, who, for 3 and a half years, raped me, beat me and force me to watch him kill and torture 18 or more animals. Nobody believed me then. A lot of people thought I was “doing it for attention”, which was an incredibly cruel burden to dump on a teenage girl who was already dealing with major post-traumatic stress. Then they hauled him off to a maximum security prison for high-risk sex offenders and suddenly all the doubters were silenced. I recall during the sentencing, in reference to my testimony, the judge referred to me as “honest, almost to a fault.”

    Fred, and everyone else who is bashing me here, someday, you’re going to look back at the way you treated me here, and if you have any conscience whatsoever, are going to HATE yourself for how foolish you are being right now. I pity you.

  339. #340 Agashem
    February 18, 2012

    Tanya, so far as I know, we in Canada do not have a maximum security prison for high-risk sex offenders. If you are calling Kingston Penitentiary that, you are using hyperbole. If there is some other institution in Canada that meets your specific description, please let us know. What this exaggeration does is limit your credibility. Try to be as honest as you can and don’t inflate things to make them sound worse, it does nothing to help us believe all that you have to say.

  340. #341 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    I was under the impression that it was a maximum security prison. Perhaps I was told that to make me feel safer, as at the time I feared for my life. I just looked it up and it was actually a MEDIUM security facility for sex offenders, called Stave Lake Correctional Centre, and is no longer operating. I apologize for the mix-up.

  341. #342 Marry Me, Mindy
    February 18, 2012

    “I think not being believed is one of the themes in my life. ”

    Yeah, why do you think that is?

    There’s an old saying, “The common denominator of all your failed relationships is you.”

    If you are finding that no one believes you, maybe you should ask the question of why am _I_ so unbelievable? Instead of assuming that everyone else is ignorant?

  342. #343 Denice Walter
    February 18, 2012

    @ Fred:

    I’ll speak generally: I do believe that people can be of * two minds* about something. We’ve all had *mixed feelings* wherein we may simultaneously like and dislike a person we know well: our opinion may vascillate. What I’ve found ( by surveying woo-meisters) is that although they may truly be exaggerating their claims and thus, selling a bill of goods to their marks they also _believe_ in their own fabrication and follow their own advice: perhaps after years of telling others you convince yourself as well.

    When people work with the seriously mentally ill- who may talk about their delusions- they are instructed to not just go along with the un-realistic belief because there may still be a part of the affected person who doubts and clings to a more realistic idea: speak to that; reinforce that.

    On woo-meisters and alt med gurus:
    When they sell their ideas and products they are simultaneously selling themselves- they have created a persona as an alternative to SBM consensus and fancy themselves brave new revolutionaries of science or suchlike. Needless to say, this is food for hungry, rapidly engourging egos. If you think about it, it takes a gigantic ego to critique the accumulated work of myriad scientists that took place over decades *especially* if you are not really well-versed in science yourself. It’s easier to decry the Cult of the Expert when you aren’t an expert. It’s a way to level a playing field that they believe is unfair, reflecting at some level their own awareness of their own lack of knowledge- people who feel good about themselves have no need of creating pedestals on which to stand.

  343. #344 Edith Prickly
    February 18, 2012

    So itchy that I would sometimes scratch arms and legs until they bled before moving and making dietary and lifestyle changes. Oh and Edith, I usually bathe for about an hour, twice/day

    No bloody wonder your skin is so itchy. Bathing twice a day for an hour is most likely drying the hell out of your skin and making the itching worse. And seriously, dish soap? If you’re perspiring heavily, a fast, lukewarm shower using a mild, unscented body wash (no bar soap, they are very drying) should be sufficient, and follow it up with an unscented moisturizing lotion (Eucerin or Aveeno are both good.) And for god’s sake, no essential oils! Oregano oil is highly irritating, and so is tea tree oil.

    Nope, no physical symptoms whatsoever!

    I was simply referring to your comment that you have no skin lesions. All your other symptoms could have a multitude of causes, including mental distress.

    Do you think it is fun to be spoken of this way when you are going through the most challenging time in your life and only trying to help others in the same situation and let them know you’re not alone.

    Nobody forced you to start posting here, and you keep coming back to argue with everyone and trumpet your own martyrdom whenever people challenge you. Trying to draw other vulnerable people into this web of misinformation you’ve spun around yourself is not going to help them.

    I stand by my diagnosis of self-aggrandizing drama queen.

  344. #345 Agashem
    February 18, 2012

    It was, actually, a minimum security facility.

  345. #346 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    When I Googled “stave lake sex offender” the fifth result says it was a “medium security institution”. I am going by what I was told when I was a teenager, and apparently those who understood how afraid I was of retaliation felt the need to exaggerate to give me a sense of security during a very difficult time. Does hounding a survivor of multiple rapes and assault about her traumatic experiences, experiences so horrific that over 15 years later I still experience sensory flashbacks, make you feel good?

    Contact me through my YouTube channel and I will arrange to have the court transcripts mailed to you. Many of the counsellors/therapists I have seen over the years have said my case was the worst case of sexual abuse they had ever encountered.

    Following the conviction, according to my mom (a lot of my memories from that time are blocked), I had lawyers who were present throughout the trial approaching me asking to shake my hand. I nearly bled to death during childbirth 3 years after the abuse happened, and my doctor felt that this was most likely due to internal injuries from the sexual abuse.

    Again, feel good?

  346. #347 Denice Walter
    February 18, 2012

    @ Fred:

    -I have a comment in moderation for you-
    but briefly in response: I believe that the answer to your question may not involve an *either/or*.

    I think that people can simultaneously believe things that are not logically consistent – obviously when someone has been in emotional turmoil for a long time, this might be exacerbated. I usually write about woo-meisters’ selling products and ideas to their customers but probably also believing in their own ‘wisdom’ at least somewhat: it is self-ego-enhancement as well as self-enrichment. It is thus, multi-purpose manoeuvring and like other emotionally-driven phenomena not *always* entirely under the person’s control. I would be harsher on someone who bases their livlihood on altmed than I would be on a paying customer.

  347. #348 Edith Prickly
    February 18, 2012

    I have a longer response to Tanya in moderation, but there’s one more thing to add:

    Edith PRICKly…

    Oh, I see what you did there. Tell me again who’s being juvenile?

  348. #349 Denice Walter
    February 18, 2012

    @ Tanya:

    Find a new _female_ counsellor: focus on finding ways to deal with your suffering. Talking to an understanding perosn can help you to feel better.

  349. #350 Agashem
    February 18, 2012

    I have no idea why you think I am abusing you. I am holding you to standards that I demand of myself, namely, to be as truthful as I can be without hyperbole. From what I have read, Stave lake was a setting where sex offenders who AGREED went to get psychotherapy. It was not a warehouse for sex offenders. Still and all, if you were told something else when you were 15 then that is what you were told. I am not arguing with you. But why would you want me to read the transcripts of your trial? I have never said you weren’t abused. In fact, I think many of us here have felt that this abuse may explain a lot more than even you realize. You are obviously feeling hurt and are lashing out. It has been pointed out to you that we are skeptics on this blog and we prefer facts to anecdotes and logic to hysteria. If this bothers you then as has been stated before, maybe you need to move on.

  350. #351 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    “why am _I_ so unbelievable?”

    Maybe it’s because I have been through some really horrendous sh** and people don’t WANT to believe it. It is less scary to believe I am making things up for attention.

    I am a talented artist, writer and my photography doesn’t suck, either. I could get lots of attention, if that’s what I was seeking. I am open about my past so that others who are being or have been abused know they aren’t alone and that there is no shame in being a survivor of sexual abuse.

  351. #352 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    “I have no idea why you think I am abusing you.”

    I don’t. I just think you’re being insensitive.

    “From what I have read, Stave lake was a setting where sex offenders who AGREED went to get psychotherapy.”

    I remember the sentencing itself. I remember them cuffing him and watching him be carried of in an armoured van. I also remember writing a letter to the judge when he tried to get out early for good behaviour.

    Voluntary psychotherapy, from my experiences, doesn’t involve being handcuffed, and you don’t need to appeal to a judge to get out of voluntary psychotherapy early for good behaviour. Yes, Stave Lake did offer some voluntary programs, but part of the reason he didn’t get off early for good behaviour is because the therapists who were working with him there felt he was not co-operating with them and showed no remorse for his actions.

    “Edith PRICKly…
    Oh, I see what you did there. Tell me again who’s being juvenile?”

    Again, just responding in kind, honeybunch.

  352. #353 Agashem
    February 18, 2012

    Sorry, again, you are mistaken. From what is online these men at Stave lake came from other institutions and were sent there if they wanted psychotherapy. You of all of us should know there is no point in trying to force psychoanalysis on anyone who doesn’t want it.
    As for being insensitive, it is exceedingly difficult to convey tone in a comment. You are reading a lot more into this than is my intention. I am looking for honest answers, not judging you.

  353. #354 Tanya
    February 18, 2012

    I’m sorry, but you are wrong. Why would it be called a “Correctional Center”? Why would an un-remorseful, un-co-operative psychopath OPT to spend 2 years there? If you google the term “Stave Lake Prison”, about the 4th result should be a link to a book called “Shaking It Rough: A Prison Memoir” where the author refers to his experience at what he calls “Stave Lake PRISON CAMP”. He refers to himself as a PRISONER.

    I may have blocked some memories, but I do vividly recall him being cuffed following sentencing (his girlfriend, who was present during the sentencing began wailing loudly when the verdict was read!), watching him be taken away in an armoured vehicle, and that victims services encouraged me to write a letter to the judge when he attempted to get out early for good behaviour.

    This is a particularly vivid memory for me because I was in the hostpital, having just given birth, when I was informed that he was trying to get out, and I wrote the letter the day after I got home.

    Anyways, this IS very stressful for me to talk about, so I’m gonna just stick to the topic, Morgellons, from here on out.

  354. #355 Fred
    February 18, 2012

    Tanya, You should be proud of yourself for speaking out as you did and working with Victim Assistance and other authorities to press charges against this person. That was very brave and your actions and evidence presented may have spared others similar abuse from this person.

    I think you can see how important it is for people to be provided with all the facts and necessary evidence so they can make sound decisions. The people here are trying to speak up and help provide others, such as you and I, with important information so we can make other important life-altering decisions.

    Hopefully, one day you will gain a different perspective on things and find some peace.

  355. #356 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Fred, I feel you are being sincere, and I appreciate that :) I will write a proper response tomorrow, as well as a follow-up to my advice to Christina. I am a little intoxicated right now, and not able to communicate very coherently, lol.

  356. #357 Agashem
    February 19, 2012

    Tanya, this is where I got the information regarding Stave Lake:
    PDF]
    Sex offender treatment : an evaluation of the Stave Lake …
    summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/7721/b37359678.pdf
    As you can see, it is a PDF dissertation regarding the Sex offender treatment program at that institution (which is still opened as far as I can tell although it may house women now). This dissertation was written in 1996. Andreas Schroeder’s book you mention was written in 1976 when Stave lake was a prison logging camp. Obviously its function has changed over the years. Point is, if this prisoner you were speaking of went there for being a sex offender, it appears he would have gone voluntarily (according the dissertation). It strikes me as unlikely that he would have gone to a logging camp (which would have been minimum security) if he were as horrible as you describe.
    Some things add up and some things don’t.

  357. #358 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    I got the impression the facility had been sold, however, you may be correct about it still being open. On a current Government of Canada webpage on pet-facilitated therapy in correctional institutions it states “The Stave Lake Correctional Centre in Maple Ridge has a net pen rearing site which is the sole supplier of rainbow trout for many small lakes. This PRISON also has an animal shelter which cares for and releases wildlife such as eagles, owls, and deer.”

    Again, while Stave Lake may have hosted voluntary rehabilitation programs, it was, at the time, which was around the same time that dissertation was written, first and foremost, a prison. Also see the definition of “correctional centre”.

  358. #359 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Agashem, I have a reply stuck in moderation referencing a current official Government of Canada webpage about pet facilitated therapy that refers to the Stave Lake Correctional Centre as a prison. Also see the definition of the term “correctional centre”. Looks like you may be right about it still being operational, though. I got the impression it had been sold.

    The centre probably does host voluntary programs, such as the one you described, but it is, first and foremost, a prison.

  359. #360 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Hmm, according to an article posted just 5 days ago on Pacific Free Press, entitled “Prison Privateers Welcomed To BC”, I was correct about the centre having been closed, too. Owned, baby!

  360. #361 Agashem
    February 19, 2012

    It is slated to be closed. Good for you.
    Now, let’s get back to more interesting topics, shall we?

  361. #362 Fred
    February 19, 2012

    According to various news articles, Stave Lake Correctional Centre in Mission, BC appears to have closed around May 2002 due to budget cuts. The property was sold to the Zajac Foundation to open a ranch for disadvantaged children.

    Correctional Service Canada has a list of the current institutions online. Stave Lake is no longer listed, but Mission Institution is listed, and their address happens to be on Stave Lake Road. It is a medium-security facility for male offenders, which opened in 1977.

    I have looked through the summit.sfu pdf you listed in @356, but I did not the entire 74 pages. On page 27 of the pdf, it mentions the offering of individual therapy treatments for offenders who are in denial of their offense, in crisis, experiencing major clinical disorders, or deviant, etc.

    Given the above description, I think it is possible that an offender as Tanya describes could have served time at the minimum security Stave Lake Centre to attempt rehabilitation. Even if they went there willingly, prisoner transport laws could require that they be handcuffed.

  362. #363 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    “It is slated to be closed. Good for you.
    Now, let’s get back to more interesting topics, shall we?”

    No, it is closed and it was a prison, and you are the one who seemed most interested in dis-proving those facts. Lol, when proven wrong, they can never just say, “Oops, my mistake, guess I was wrong.” Such inflated egos here.

    Fred, I still intend to write you a proper response to #354, as well as the rest of my advice for Christina when I have more time. Oh, and he definitely didn’t go willingly. He was convicted of multiple (can’t remember exact number) counts of sexual and physical assault and sentenced to 2 years in prison, plus probation and an order not to have contact with anyone under 13 (this was because during the case I testified that he told me he molested 2 young relatives). He also was not allowed to live in the same town as his family when released from prison because the judge felt they had enabled his behaviour.

  363. #364 Edith Prickly
    February 19, 2012

    FWIW Fred, I do believe that Tanya was severely abused, even if some of the minor details don’t quite jell. And I think it’s admirable that she wants to help others in the same situation.

    However, that still doesn’t make her beliefs about Morgellon’s and the super sekrit genetic engineering conspiracy true, and spreading false ideas around is not going to help any traumatized person recover. Here’s a little recap from one of her early posts to get the discussion back on track:

    The reason the mainstream medical establishment is presenting Morgellon’s as a mental illness is because the truth is it is MANMADE self-assembling, self-replicating nanotech that is literally genetically modifying the entire human species. See the work of Clifford Carnicom, for starters.The nano particles responsible for Morgellon’s are so pervasive in the environment that it would be impossible not to have this in your system. This is the big coverup and this is why they are trying to make us look crazy. You people who are not sick and are not seeing fibers are only “well” because your bodies are not rejecting this material, which has been found to be made up of cellulose, polyethylene and silicone among other things.

    As for your question @337 Fred, I think Tanya does wholeheartedly believe all this is true, and she’s woven it into a defensive armour around herself to avoid dealing with the pain from her abuse head-on. It’s an understandable reaction, but it’s not going to help her recover in the long term. Her beliefs are also probably keeping her from forming positive relationships with people who would support her without encouraging her unhealthy obsessions.

  364. #365 Fred
    February 19, 2012

    Edith, I completely agree.

    I think people in her position are extremely sensitive to criticism, and almost crave people to believe in them. It seems people did not believe her in the past and she was very hurt by that, understandably. Perhaps if someone would have believed her allegations of abuse earlier, and intervened, then she would not have been so exploited.

    I think she has dug in deep now with the Morgellons and conspiracy theories. One part of the problem as I see it is that we are not the same people that abused her in the past, but our repeated questioning of her and asking for evidence still comes across in that same manner and is very frustrating to her.

  365. #366 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    “she’s woven it into a defensive armour around herself to avoid dealing with the pain from her abuse head-on”

    You’re right, I never spent 10+ years in therapy dealing with the pain from my abuse head on, just as I have no physical symptoms. Edith, you really need to become a professional psychic. You’d make a killing!

  366. #367 Narad
    February 19, 2012

    Her beliefs are also probably keeping her from forming positive relationships with people who would support her without encouraging her unhealthy obsessions.

    This is writ large. Tanya appears to be on the horns of the dilemma of desiring both the safety of isolation (island living cemented with cannabis) and also ongoing validation, with the former meaning the latter can only be achieved through random engagement. When this predictably doesn’t pan out all that reliably, the indignation kicks in.

  367. #368 Fred
    February 19, 2012

    Tanya, Speaking as one who has been there, Edith is correct. You just can’t recognize it yet. One day you will, hopefully. I do understand how angry it can make you feel to hear her and others say that though.

  368. #369 Denice Walter
    February 19, 2012

    Hello, Tanya:
    I have counselled people who have dealt with difficult situations including abuse, trauma and serious illness ( now- education and career):
    if you are still experiencing thoughts you can’t control about the abuse or the abuser, you should find a female counsellor with whom you can talk. You only have one life, why waste more time suffering? Someone might be able to help you. Obviously the fibres cause you difficulty and memories of abuse cause pain as well: perhaps if you tackled the latter the other obstacles might not be as in-surmountable. Speaking out in court was a very brave thing to do. You stand your ground here against the hard -ss sceptics: you’re not a weak person altho’ you may be burdened with problems from others’ wrongdoings.

    I also have enjoyed doing art and writing for a very long time: wouldn’t it be great if you could develop your talents with a peaceful mind? I hope you can. Best wishes.

  369. #370 Tanya
    February 19, 2012

    Fred, I understand you are trying to help, and I appreciate it, however, you are basing your conclusions on inconclusive evidence. The CDC was not able to prove Morgellons doesn’t exist, only that they couldn’t find an infectious cause, and delusional infestation was only discussed as a possibility. I think it is irresponsible to label someone delusional when you are not qualified to do so, nor have you met with them and examined the material for yourself.

    This isn’t about being believed. Many, many people believe me. The people closest to me, whose opinions I value the most, believe me. One of them initially had doubts until I was able to show them the fibers coming out of my skin, now they are one of my strongest supporters.

    I am not angry, at you, Edith or anyone. Just a bit irritated that you are so quick to jump to conclusions and cannot admit the possibility you are mistaken.

    Don’t you find it a bit odd that 15 years after a traumatic event, someone who has no history of delusions or psychosis, and whose health, both physical and mental, is improving steadily, would suddenly develop delusions? I know some of you would like to connect the abuse with my supposed delusions, but it *is* possible for people who have mental health issues to have physical health issues that have nothing to do with a their psychological state.

    Denice, I rarely think about the abuse. I have some sensory flashbacks when exposed to certain triggers, but that is down 90+% from 5 years ago and continues to improve. For years I got them 100+ times/ day and could barely function. I now don’t get them at all most days.

    “You only have one life, why waste more time suffering?”

    That is exactly why I have taken so many steps to improve my health. Again, my mental health has improved significantly over the past 5 or 6 years. I put in several years of counselling, with both male and female counsellors, and feel like I’ve gotten everything I can out of it, at least for now. When I was in counselling, I was always rehashing the past which caused me to think about the abuse a lot more and just made me more depressed and anxious. Since taking an extended break from counselling, and making an effort to stay focussed on the present, I feel much more at peace.

    I’m not “there yet” (is anyone, really?), but I’m much better than I used to be, and continue to get better each day.

    For the most part, I’ve stuck around here because ongoing dialogue piques people’s interest and hopefully will get people investigating the issues I’ve brought up. I am also here to encourage critical thought, as so many of you have made assumptions about me, and about Morgellons in general, based on a study that failed to prove anything. Normally I post one comment and move on, but this is an interesting conversation and is teaching me a great deal about what makes people tick.

  370. #371 Edith Prickly
    February 19, 2012

    Edith, you really need to become a professional psychic. You’d make a killing!

    Actually, I think you’d be much better at that than me. You could do lint ball readings for other Morgellon’s “patients.”

  371. #372 adelady
    February 19, 2012

    tanya, I have no useful thing I can say to you about PTSD or Morgellon’s. But there are a few issues about symptom management that I have a lot of experience with.

    persistent “acne” and scalp that was always raw, scabby and itchy prior to moving to an area with untreated water

    So itchy that I would sometimes scratch arms and legs until they bled before moving and making dietary and lifestyle changes.

    I am trying to sleep, I notice the itching a lot more

    Ban all soap from your skin, your clothes, your linen – the whole house in fact for at least 6 weeks.

    Non-soap, non-irritating products are available for body wash, shampoo, clothes washing, dishwashing, bathroom cleaning. Don’t under any circumstances think that adding in herbal or ‘soothing’ ingredients to conventional products will help.

    If you can’t find suitable products – I don’t know what your local shopping is like – then get pure sorbolene to wash your skin until you do. When I say pure sorbolene, I mean exactly that. No added vitamins or essential oils or anything at all.

    Equally important is what you use to clean your bath, your clothes and your bedlinen. If you aren’t satisfied with the ‘non-irritant’ claims of the products available to you, buy a couple of boxes of sodium bicarbonate. (Or bicarb soda or whatever it’s called in your neck of the woods.) Use it neat to clean the bath. For washing clothes, you can use it neat, or you can reduce your usual washing powder quantity to a quarter (yes a quarter) of the set amount and add in a couple of tablespoons of bicarb.

    Gotta go now. I’ll give a couple of links to helpful skin, non-irritant (non-commercial) info later.

  372. #373 Fred
    February 20, 2012

    I am also here to encourage critical thought, …

    Tanya, Would you please humor me a bit and do me a huge favor? You correctly noted that I am being sincere and trying to help. Please do the following simple tasks for me.

    1. Using your fingers, pluck a very tiny piece of carpeting from your home and film it up close in the same way as you film the Morgellons fibers. You can take the sample from a bathroom rug or other throw rug if you have hardwood floors.

    2. Gently pull some of the fuzz off one of your knit sweaters and film it up close as well.

    3. If you have access to a clothes dryer, pull some of the lint from the lint trap and film it.

    Please upload those three videos to your YouTube page and post a message here to notify me when it is done.

    Thank you, I appreciate it!

  373. #374 Agashem
    February 20, 2012

    As for needing to admit to being wrong, I am more than willing to do so. However, information on the internet regarding Stave Lake is a little confusing. It does appear to have closed in 2001-2002, however, currently you can find it listed on Corrections Canada page under pet therapy. So perhaps something is still going on there.
    As for Tanya’s original claim that the sex offender who violated her went to a maximum security prison for sex offenders in Canada, I stand by my original statement that no such facility exists in Canada. Paul Bernardo, our most (currently) notorious sex offender is housed in Kingston Penitentiary.

  374. #375 Tanya
    February 20, 2012

    Adelady, thanks for your suggestions. I have never heard of sorbolene. I am off to the city today and will look for it. The products I have listed draw out the fibers, so they do really keep the itching at bay, everything else I use is, for the most part, fragrance free (I have major sensitivities to perfume, one sniff of most fragrances and I get an instant headache and cough) and hypoallergenic. I might try a week without soap, etc. but I do find the stuff I use helps the itching.

    Fred, that sounds like a good idea. Might help convert a few sceptics. Oddly, I have found that if you wet the cotton fibers from a q-tip, they move similarly to a Morgellons fiber, but the fibers I’m seeing, for the most part do not look like cotton. They are plastic-looking and are sometimes iridescent. They don’t seem to match with my clothing, towel or other textile fibers, although if I don’r air-dry, I naturally do get some towel fibers stuck to my skin.

    Such an experiment would show the difference between Morgellons an other fibers, so I’ll give it a try. I’m taking a week-long breather from anything stressful or negative, so I’ll do it after that.

    Agashem, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. As I say, I was pretty young and pretty freaked out following the trial and I would imagine I was told it was a maximum-security prison to reassure me. I certainly hope the animal-facilitated therapy program was not operating when he was there as he was an animal torturer and killer and even experimented with bestiality.

  375. #376 Denice Walter
    February 20, 2012

    Tanya, could you please consider the following as one *possible* scenario: you suffered the consequences of abuse and experienced frequent intrusions of thought and emotion concerning the crimes that you endured- somehow- psychologically, unconsciously, beyond your control, your mind *itself* ( as self- protection) had you to focus on the _fibres_ rather than re-playing the crimes. I am imaginig a time line that is something like : many thoughts about abuse/ mix of thoughts about abuse and fibres/ most thoughts about fibres.

    I am only putting this idea forth as a possibility: the fibres enabled you to shift your focus away from the criminal abuse. I have no idea if this is true or not. I truly hope *whatever* causes your suffering will be demolished and that you will improve so you can have a better life.

  376. #377 Tanya
    February 29, 2012

    Denice, I’ve absolutely considered the scenario you suggest. As I explained before, I was very sceptical when I discovered the fibers and would prefer to be delusional than to be infested with manmade, self-replicating nanotech. If I could just take a pill and make this nightmare end, I would. Unfortunately, such a pill would either have to kill me or blind me.

    Denice, could you please consider the following as one *possible* scenario: I suffered horrific abuse which drove me nearly to my breaking point. When I saw that my health was declining fast, I took responsibility. I did my own research, revamped my lifestyle and my outlook, and my health began to improve. My experiences made me strong and gave me discernment, so when attacked again, this time in a more covert and sophisticated way, I was able to recognize that I was being attacked, that the intent of this manifestation called Morgellons was malicious.

    Being a decent person, and armed with the strength aquired through difficult yet necessary life experiences, I stood up and fought, to the best of my ability, and will continue to do so until the planet is a safe and healthy for everyone and those guilty of these crimes are brought to justice.

    I know this is all very hard to swallow, and I’m not asking anyone to believe me. All I ask is that you take the time to investigate this with an open mind, because I believe if you do, you will reach the conclusion that we are all affected by Morgellons, whether we are exhibiting symptoms or not, that whether the research drawing these conclusions was sponsored by the “right people”, the findings are valid, that this is manmade, that we all have it and it is destroying our health and is truly the ultimate violation against all life on earth.

    Knowing might not save you from it, but it allows you to take steps toward protecting yourself and your families, or at least lessening the impact. The more aware the population is, the more minds we have tackling this problem, the faster we can identify who is responsible, the motives behind this program, and ways to mitigate symptoms or even “cure” Morgellons.

    This is, in part, why I’ve stuck around so long. Scientists read this blog and if I can inspire just one or two brilliant minds to take a serious look at this problem, it’s worth it.

    Anyways, I’m not finished writing my recommendations for Christina (or whomever else can make use of them). I’ll post what I’ve got so far for dietary advice, here, and when I finish I will post the entire thing on my blog (click on my name). I also plan to start filming comparisons of Morgellons with other fibers for Fred. Might do a little series of comparison videos (ie, Morgellons VS dog hair, Morgellons VS fiber from sweater, Morgellons VS fiber from curtain). Thanks for the great idea! I will post those videos on my YouTube channel, screwedworldorder

    ….

    Diet/Internal

    Several years before I had even heard of Morgellons, I made one change in my diet that I feel is a big part of why I have not manifested skin symptoms as severely as some. It has certainly resulted in a HUGE decrease in the severity of my muscle & joint pain, as well as the headaches. It has also completely eliminated my cravings for MSG-laden junk food. That step was the removal of MSG, as well as other potential sources of free glutamate (hydrolysed proteins, modified starches, artificial and natural flavour, seasonings, spices, etc., etc.).

    Basically, I began to eat only foods whose ingredients I could recognize and would use myself in my own cooking. I soon began to understand that if the “natural flavour” in a product were, say, onion powder, or vanilla extract, the label would reflect that. When you see “natural flavour” (or some of the other “ingredients” I listed, above), there is something there they don’t want you to see. Pepsico (Frito-Lay, Quaker, Tropicana, Lipton, Naked Juice, Sobe, Aunt Jemima, Aquafina, etc.) uses aborted human fetal tissue and rat DNA in the manufacture of their flavourings. Babies and rodents are natural, right?

    I am not someone who does well with drastic changes overnight. I am still gradually making changes to my diet. Aside from eliminating unrecognizeable and unnecessary ingredients from my diet, I also strive to eat more whole, unprocessed foods, and more organics, as well as more raw food. Affordability has been an issue in the switch to organic foods which is why, last year, I started learning how to grow my own food, which is practically free.

    Currently my kitchen table is covered with egg cartons and trays full of sprouting veggies. Nasturtium, dill, kale, pak-choi, lettuce, parsely, mustard greens, fennel, 3 varieties of basil, garlic chives, green onion, sage and coriander. In a few months we will have more produce than we can deal with and will probably have to sell some. I plan to do a lot of juicing, too. I’m still enjoying some salad greens and herbs that survived the mild winter.

    I’m also learning about edible wild plants and weeds. Turns out the dandelion, plantain, wood sorrel, self-heal, peppergrass, chicory, lemonbalm, burdock and clovers growing wild in my yard are edible, too, and I’ve started incorporating them into my diet as much as possible.

    The gardening and foraging also provide exercise and sun-exposure, which are so important for those with Morgellons. I also think it is wise to spend as much time outside as possible, as we are constantly shedding the fibers and so the more we can shed outside, the easier it is to keep household fuzz under control.

    ….To be continued….

  377. #378 danser
    April 22, 2012

    Morgellons Disease Reversal

    April 21, 2012 Leave a comment (Edit)
    How long have you had Morgellons symptoms?

    The answer really does not matter. What matters is reversing them. We have found a way to eliminate your Morgellons symptoms in about 4 weeks using a natural mineral. What might you expect?
    This is what you should expect;

    week one;

    Your energy begins to return
    Your brain-fog begins to evaporate
    You can see better
    You can think clearer
    You see “debris’ leaving your body

    week two;

    If you have lesions, they begin to harden around the edges
    The biting and scratching begins to subside
    Your movement in your scalp starts to go away
    You notice less fibers
    The black specs disappear

    week three;

    Your lesions harden even further, some begin to fall off entirely
    The biting and scratching is almost gone
    Say good-bye to your depression
    Your mood improves

    week four;

    Your lesions have mostly fallen off and do not return
    Your clarity of thought astounds you
    Nearly all of your Morgellons symptoms are gone
    You life is your own again
    You feel like ‘you’ again

    Is this a pipe-dream, or is it real?

    We have been helping Morgellons sufferers for over 5 years and those who stayed with the program and followed the instructions are mostly symptom-free now. Once you obtain this level of relief, you seriously reduce how much NutraSilver you take to a minimum of about 15 drops, twice per day.

    That’s it! You are done! Now it is time to return to your normal life without being accused by the medical profession of being delusional, without the feeling of hopelessness and without the debilitating brain-fog that stole your life.
    Congratulations! Your Morgellons nightmare is over!

    NutraSilver, in FDA-certified independent lab test has shown to kill every pathogens we have tested both quickly and safely. WE are so sure that NutraSilver will reverse your Morgellons symptoms, we guarantee it for 60 days from the date we shipped it to you. No questions asked. Why doesn’t your Doctor of Pharmacist offer such a guarantee? You know the answer and so do we. End your Morgellons suffering now. There is no need to suffer even one more day.

  378. #379 danser
    April 22, 2012

    Morgellons Disease Reversal

    How long have you had Morgellons symptoms?

    The answer really does not matter. What matters is reversing them. We have found a way to eliminate your Morgellons symptoms in about 4 weeks using a natural mineral. What might you expect?
    This is what you should expect;

    week one;

    Your energy begins to return
    Your brain-fog begins to evaporate
    You can see better
    You can think clearer
    You see “debris’ leaving your body

    week two;

    If you have lesions, they begin to harden around the edges
    The biting and scratching begins to subside
    Your movement in your scalp starts to go away
    You notice less fibers
    The black specs disappear

    week three;

    Your lesions harden even further, some begin to fall off entirely
    The biting and scratching is almost gone
    Say good-bye to your depression
    Your mood improves

    week four;

    Your lesions have mostly fallen off and do not return
    Your clarity of thought astounds you
    Nearly all of your Morgellons symptoms are gone
    You life is your own again
    You feel like ‘you’ again

    Is this a pipe-dream, or is it real?

    We have been helping Morgellons sufferers for over 5 years and those who stayed with the program and followed the instructions are mostly symptom-free now. Once you obtain this level of relief, you seriously reduce how much NutraSilver you take to a minimum of about 15 drops, twice per day.

    That’s it! You are done! Now it is time to return to your normal life without being accused by the medical profession of being delusional, without the feeling of hopelessness and without the debilitating brain-fog that stole your life.
    Congratulations! Your Morgellons nightmare is over!

    NutraSilver, in FDA-certified independent lab test has shown to kill every pathogens we have tested both quickly and safely. WE are so sure that NutraSilver will reverse your Morgellons symptoms, we guarantee it for 60 days from the date we shipped it to you. No questions asked. Why doesn’t your Doctor of Pharmacist offer such a guarantee? You know the answer and so do we. End your Morgellons suffering now. There is no need to suffer even one more day.

  379. #380 lilady
    April 22, 2012

    danser’s comment above is an advertisement for a colloidal silver compound that you ingest:

    “NutraSilver® is made using two distinct, but very natural ingredients: pure silver from a mine and distilled water. These two ingredients, when combined properly, can create a powerful germ fighter. NutraSilver’s colloidal silver is pure, organic and safe for use by the entire family, when instructions are followed.”

  380. #381 Kelly M Bray
    April 22, 2012

    SPAM Alert

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