It just occurred to me that, even though there was news about it, I never mentioned what’s happened recently with respect to California bill AB2109. As you might recall, I wrote about this bill about four weeks ago. In brief, this bill, if passed into law, would require that California parents seeking a “personal belief” exemption for vaccines to meet with a physician and have a physician sign off on what is more or less an informed consent form stating that the parents had been informed of the risks and benefits of vaccines and, more importantly for purposes of the personal belief exemption, the risks (many) and benefits (virtually none) of not vaccinating. Parents would still be able to refuse to vaccinate by claiming that vaccines are against their “personal beliefs” (whatever that means). They just wouldn’t be able to do it by signing a form at school, no questions asked. In other words, the law would make it just a little more difficult to obtain a personal belief exemption, and that’s a good thing, because right now in California it’s easier to get a personal belief exemption than it is to actually have your children vaccinated. That means that it’s not just antivaccine parents who use the personal belief exemption but parents who aren’t antivaccine but are just too darned lazy or unconcerned to make sure their children are vaccinated.

It turns out that earlier this week, a hearing on AB2109 was held by the California Assembly Committee on Health. According to a local news report, the California Medical Association, the California Pharmacy Association, the Association of Physician Assistants, the California State Employees Association, the County Health Executive Association, as well as the doctors and dentists’ unions all lined up to testify in support of the bill. In addition, Health care workers lined up to endorse the bill, including doctors, medical students, and nurses, as well they should. After all, primary care doctors, especially pediatricians, understand the value of vaccination more than anyone; that is, with one rather despicable exception. Yes, we’re talking about Bob Sears:

“A free choice that is contingent upon finding another person to sign off on your free choice is not really a free choice at all,” said Dr. Bob Sears, a pediatrician.

Sears is against the law. He joined protestors on the Capitol steps Tuesday, to argue against the rule change.

On Facebook, Dr. Sears was a bit less…restrained:

THE FIGHT ISN’T OVER. Ya, we lost this battle, but we expected that and were praying for Divine intervention. We can’t give up. The more legislators we can keep against this bill, the less likely it will be to eventually make it off the Governor’s desk with a signature. So, every call matters!!! Start calling your Assembly person. Here is one thought on the meeting:

You saw the long parade of doctors all “conveniently” saying they would sign their patients’ exemption waiver. You know what this means? IT MEANS WE ARE BEING EFFECTIVE. WE’VE CALLED THE DEMOCRATS OUT ON ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS WITH THE BILL. If this wasn’t a major problem, then the democrats wouldn’t have needed to bother with getting all those doctors up there and obviously and blantantly coaching them, each and every one of them, to say exactly the same thing. You’d think they’d at least try to make it not so obvious. This tells me that they are worried about this issue because they KNOW it’s an issue. This makes it obvious that it’s NOT a done deal. They know they might not win in the end, so they are fighting. That’s a good sign. Hats off to Dawn Winkler and everyone else for all the hard work. Keep it up!!!

Dr. Bob sounds a bit unhinged here, don’t you think? I mean, seriously. He’s using all caps and everything and combining it with paranoia. Does he have any evidence that legislators supporting the bill coached any of the physicians who testified in favor of the bill. Or that they somehow did anything questionable at all.

I also notice that Bob Sears is actually paying tribute to Dawn Winkler, thanking her for her efforts to combat the bill. Some of you might know who Dawn Winkler is, but for those of you who don’t I’ll refer you to a couple of posts I wrote about her nearly six years ago when I referred to her as an “antivaccine activist running for governor of the state of Colorado.” And that’s what she was at the time, too, a die-hard antivaccinationist spouting the most ridiculous pseudoscience and misinformation about vaccines. In fact, I have to wonder whether Winkler’s rubbing off on Sears. She’s pretty unhinged when she rants about vaccines. Now, “Dr. Bob” is starting to sound a little unhinged himself about vaccines. Maybe it was just the disappointment of having been trounced so nicely. Let’s see how he sounds compared to Dawn Winkler’s testimony:

Winkler, the California State co-director of the National Vaccine Information Center, and executive director of Health Advocacy in the Public Interest, said the bill was not about parents receiving more accurate information about vaccinations. “They already have that available,” Winkler said. “This is about parents’ rights, under the law. Why on earth should parents have to obtain more information about vaccinations and opt-out permission? This will interfere with the right to free education and the right to religious freedom. This bill poses a threat to freedom.”

So that explains what’s happened to Winkler in the six years since I last recall mentioning her. How appropriate. She’s with the antivaccine group the NVIC now, which makes perfect sense. I just didn’t know she had moved to California. In any case, Winkler can’t argue the science, as much as she thinks she can; so instead she retreats to overwrought “health freedom”-style arguments, particularly “parents’ rights” arguments. Here’s the problem: Parents’ rights are not absolute by any stretch of the imagination, nor should they be. Parents, for instance, are not allowed to deny their children life-saving medical care for a life-threatening disease. Remember Madeline Neumann? She was an 11-year-old whose parents relied on prayer instead of insulin to treat diabetic ketoacidosis. Madeline died, and her parents were prosecuted for second degree reckless homicide. Another child named Ava Worthington died when she developed bronchial pneumonia and her parents, belonging to a religion that eschews medical care, did not seek treatment. No, my point is not to advocate prosecuting antivaccine parents for neglect or abuse. Rather, it’s to point out that there is another being in the equation besides them. The child has interests that deserve protection. If anything AB2109 doesn’t go far enough in protecting those interests, but it’s better than the law as it stands now. Finally, “health freedom” means nothing more than the freedom of quacks from pesky government laws and regulations against their quackery, and “parental choice” means refusing vaccines based on pseudoscience.

Unfortunately, in this country, there is a widespread apparent belief that parents’ rights are the only rights that matter. As a consequence, in this country, we tend to grant parents wide latitude in making health care choices for their children. While in most cases this is appropriate, unfortunately, the law sometimes seems to bend over backwards to protect parents’ rights.

Particularly amusing (or it would be amusing if it weren’t so racist) is this objection to AB2109:

The unspeakable issue at the root of Pan’s bill is the influx of children from other countries into California’s public schools, who bring with them new strains of measles, mumps, chicken pox and flu bugs, among other communicable diseases. Children who have recently traveled out of the country also bring home infectious diseases.

It is not politically correct to address that problem. Instead the Legislature is proposing that everyone get vaccinated.

It’s no different that a teacher punishing the entire class because of one bad kid. The inability to single out the issue is the problem.

TRANSLATION: “It’s the wetbacks spreading disease, not our good, clean American children. Instead of restricting the Health Freedom of Real Americans, we should do something about them wetbacks, don’tcha think?”

No, I don’t think that’s a straw man, either, and, yes, as I said, it’s racist. Not only is this objection racist, but it’s almost certainly wrong. Most of the schools with the highest personal exemption rates are not in areas where there are a lot of illegal immigrants. Oh, no. They’re in Marin County and places where there are lots of upper middle class white people who’ve imbibed the antivaccine nonsense on the University of Google and developed the arrogance of ignorance that lead them to believe that they know more about vaccines experts who have spent their entire professional career studying vaccines.

There’s one final issue with this bill. I couldn’t find it mentioned in any of the news reports anywhere and the text of the bill doesn’t reflect this change, at least not yet, but apparently an amendment was added to the bill before it got out of committee that would allow naturopaths to counsel parents on the risks and benefits of vaccines and sign the exemption form under the supervision of a licensed physician. If this is true, it’s a disaster for the bill that will provide a loophole the size of an aircraft carrier for antivaccine parents. It’s something that really needs to be stripped from the bill before it’s voted on; failure to do so will render the bill much less effective, perhaps even nearly useless.

This brings up another issue, that of licensing naturopaths and giving them prescribing privileges (which naturopaths have in a limited form in California). Naturopaths have been waging a largely successful campaign to expand the number of states that license them and allow them prescribing privileges. They’ve been all too successful in rebranding themselves as a real alternative to physicians as primary care doctors. Because they have the imprimatur of the state through their licensure, they’ve achieved a level of respectability that is completely undeserved based on the rank pseudoscience and quackery they practice. Legislators do not realize this and hence most of them probably don’t know that naturopaths practice quackery. It probably seemed a perfectly reasonable compromise to the committee, given that one of the major objections of antivaccinationists to the bill is that, in its original form, it didn’t allow alternative medicine practitioners to sign the exemption form. Assuming the reports I’ve received are true and the Assembly did amend the bill to allow naturopaths to sign the exemption forms, it points to just how far reaching and corrosive to science-based medicine licensing naturopaths is.

In the short term, what needs to happen is that proponents of science-based medicine need to work to persuade the Assembly to strip the amendment from the bill that allows naturopaths to counsel patients on vaccine risks and benefits. It has been shown before that there is an association between seeing naturopaths and not receiving all recommended vaccines; there’s also an association between naturopathic care and catching a vaccine-preventable disease. So getting naturopaths off the list of health care professionals who can counsel parents about vaccines should be a no-brainer. Next, in the long term, the next effort must be to oppose licensure of naturopaths and to go beyond that, to roll back licensure of naturopaths in every state in which they are licensed. Such licensure serves no purpose other than to enrich quacks, and, based on the example of AB2109, it has far-reaching corrosive effects on medical policy. It needs to end.

Comments

  1. #1 Denice Walter
    June 27, 2012

    @ lilady:
    @ Narad:

    Jake ( in a comment there) chimes in with his own brand of rebellion to governmental oppression or suchlike.

    Oddly enough, regardless of where they live ( e.g. John Stone also shrieks about investigations as do many commenters) , we hear plenty about spending in their *own* interests ( investigations, assistance) and LESS government simultaneously.

  2. #2 Shay
    June 27, 2012

    Science Mom…I wonder if Molly argues with her auto mechanic.

    Seriously.

  3. #3 Science Mom
    June 27, 2012

    I do not need a doctor’s permission to decide for or against the available vaccines.

    Of course not, you have the interwebz and mummy forums which surely make you more qualified than those silly doctors.

    So, are you always against informed consent, or just against it when parents make decisions that you don’t agree with.

    This bill is about informed consent. Please be honest and at least admit that you don’t like your informed consent served to you by a qualified physician because your mummy instincts are way better than that.

    You know, I notice a lot of ad hominem attacks here by the “every vaccine for every child” crowd.

    Nice strawman, now quote any post which states any such thing.

    I don’t think you would appreciate being called uninformed, reckless, etc., simply because you look at the evidence and come to a different conclusion.

    Yes you are uninformed, reckless, etc. because you manage to look at the evidence, if in fact you really do and come to a different conclusion. That would indicate that you don’t know how to parse the evidence.

    For example, my brother in law is a doctor, and declined the Hep B shot for his newborn sons. Clearly, newborns are not at risk for an STD, so it would be far fetched to call his decision reckless or irresponsible.

    If your doctor brother-in-law declined the hep b vaccine solely because he believed that hep b is only an STD then he should give his license back and not someone I would emulate nor quote as informed.

    Good parents must judge the merits of ALL medical interventions for their children.

    And how many parents are qualified to evaluate all medical interventions? Your hubris precludes you from understanding your limitations.

  4. #4 Shay
    June 27, 2012

    Science Mom…I wonder if Molly argues with her auto mechanic.

    Seriously.

  5. #5 Shay
    June 27, 2012

    Now that’s interesting. I managed to answer Science Mom before she even posted.

    Mad skillz, clearly.

  6. #6 Liz Ditz
    thrashing through the vaccine rejectionist jungle
    June 27, 2012

    The other thing that’s happening today is that the bill’s being heard in the California Senate Health Committee. I wasn’t able to go up to Sacramento although I wanted to. It’s on right now.

  7. #7 Liz Ditz
    Listening to AB 2109 hearing
    June 27, 2012

    “I oppose medical nazism based on voodoo science” — chiropractor

    One of the MIND founders pounding on vaccine injury

    “Unconstitutional” — Christian Scientist

    Oh geez this is the same as the last hearing.

  8. #8 Liz Ditz
    Those anti-vaxxers never give up
    June 27, 2012

    And the anti-vaxxers are asked to give only name and position and most of them keep trying to make more points. Now I really regret not going to Sacto.

    The chiropractors are out in force. Life Chiropractic College is I think in Sacramento and they got a lot of students out to.

    The drumbeat of “vaccine injury” is so relentless, I wonder if the Senators are going to fall for it. Oh but wait there are some educated Senators speaking now.

    And the National Vaccine Information Center has a lot to answer for — a lot of the antis said they were affiliated with NVIC.

    Rob Schnieder (a movie director? Actor? Came out in opposition to the bill.

    The Senator speaking now is female, didn’t catch her name, supports the bill, she feels very strongly in favor in the bill and in high vaccine uptake. Now she’s talking about parental fear of vaccines and things like autism and other problems. She supports more education because these fears are unfounded.

    OK, I’ll stop the live commentary coverage now.

  9. #9 Liz Ditz
    Listening to AB 2109 hearing
    June 27, 2012

    OK, the school nurses association wants to be one of the groups who can sign off on the form, which Dr. Pan agrees to. I think this is a good idea. And now they are discussing adding pharmacists to the list.

    Ooooh I am thinking that they are going to take the bill back to committee.

  10. #10 Liz Ditz
    Listening to AB 2109 hearing
    June 27, 2012

    One senator concerned that there’s not full disclosure of risks of vaccination. The senator is concerned that pediatricians are too biased in favor of vaccines. Pan: we want families to have a conversation and a relationship of trust with their physicians.

    The one thing I haven’t heard Pan say YET is how much misinformation and dishonest presentation from the vaccine fearful sites and anti-vaccine sites. What the senator doesn’t get (I think) is that all the claims of vaccine injury are bogus.

    The other thing is I guess one of the anti-vaxxers claimed that 84 out of 128 pediatricians would refuse to sign the affidavit for vaccine refusing families. Pan is indicating that perhaps this claim by anti-vaxxers is uhhhm not particularly factual.

  11. #11 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    June 27, 2012

    Science Mom…I wonder if Molly argues with her auto mechanic.

    Mad skillz indeed Shay. No, of course she doesn’t argue with her mechanic because that is a skill that people like her are so clearly out of their depth with. And even moreso when it comes to healthcare but because information that is available in ignorant parent-friendly pablum formats, they become arrogant enough to believe that they know better than all of the experts.

  12. #12 Liz Ditz
    Listening to AB 2109 hearing
    June 27, 2012

    OOOOhhh they are voting, but they only did a partial vote because some members aren’t in the room. So far it was 4 ayes and 0 nays and a bunch of missing members.

  13. #13 Chris
    Somewhere with a glass of white wine...
    June 27, 2012

    Science Mom:

    No, of course she doesn’t argue with her mechanic because that is a skill that people like her are so clearly out of their depth with.

    Yet, these same folks are glad to declare that all of the studies done on vaccines are not science. Apparently because of the extensive use of mathematics, especially statistics, childhealthsafety (obviously Clifford Miller) has declared: Epidemiology is not science – period.

    Ask them how they would design a study, but remind them that no child should be harmed, you just get the chorus thkweaming that the proper studies have not been done.

  14. #14 Julian Frost
    NOYDB
    June 28, 2012

    @Liz Ditz:

    Rob Schnieder (a movie director? Actor? Came out in opposition to the bill.

    Shnieder is a third-rate “comedian” who appeared in some amusing films (The Animal) and some not so funny ones (both Deuce Bigalow films). When he mocked a film critic (who had bashed the first Deuce Bigalow) for never having won a Pulitzer, Roger Ebert mentioned his own Pulitzer and flatly declared “your movie sucks”.
    Schnieder is just another version of Jenny McCarthy: a has-been D-List celebrity who thinks his fame entitles him to greater credibility.

  15. #15 Marc Stephens Is Insane
    June 28, 2012

    He was also the “makin’ copies” guy on Saturday Night Live…

  16. #16 Liz Ditz
    Far from Sacramento
    June 28, 2012

    The bill passed out of committee.

    AB 2109 passes Senate Health 7-1 with Blakeslee and Harmon voting in favor along with all Democrats (minus Rubio who had to leave early) . Congrats all – will share next steps soon.

  17. #17 Thinking Mom
    here now
    June 28, 2012

    Well it seems that Merck has been misleading the United States Government in the efficacy of the mumps vaccine and making huge profits by misleading parents and doctors into believing that children are going to be “protected” by their vaccine.

    Talk about JUNK SCIENCE and mis-information.
    How dare you deny any parent the right to opt out of vaccines when the prime motive of their manufacturers is PROFIT not health, when the pharmeceutical industry giant MERCK is willing to furnish false junk science to get their drug approved by the US Government.

    Shame on you vaccine fanatical pushers. To purport such a crime is evil. To further that insanity is illogical and only supports the religion of junk science medicine.

    http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/27/47851.htm

  18. #18 Chris
    In a medical building waiting room...
    June 28, 2012

    Thinking Mom:

    Well it seems that Merck has been misleading the United States Government in the efficacy of the mumps vaccine and making huge profits by misleading parents and doctors into believing that children are going to be “protected” by their vaccine.

    That is one of the most idiotic moves I have ever seen. First there are plenty of papers on PubMed on the efficacy of the Jeryl Lynn mumps strain (along with Urabe, etc). And second of all it by a pair of ex-employees who have not worked at Merck for ten years.

    It looks like a coordinated smear campaign by those who have failed with science, and are now trying the courts.

  19. #19 Beamup
    June 28, 2012

    The fact that somebody files a lawsuit claiming something does not demonstrate that claim to be true. And even if those particular bits of research were found to be false (for whatever reason), the amount of evidence supporting the safety and efficacy of vaccines would not be materially affected.

  20. #20 JGC
    June 28, 2012

    Clearly, newborns are not at risk for an STD

    And if Hep B were only be transmitted sexually you’d have a relevant point. It isn’t, however, and you don’t.

  21. #21 Thinking Mom
    At the clinic
    June 28, 2012

    Gosh more blind religion of fanatics based on junk science and emotions not FACTS.

    The Urabe strain of measles has its own problems with vaccination, it caused aseptic meningitis and for that reason its use was discontinued in the UK

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1759507

  22. #22 Chris
    Still in a medical office waiting room...
    June 28, 2012

    You are not thinking very well, the only mumps strain used in the USA has been Jeryl Lynn. It is named after the daughter of the Merck employee who developed it into a vaccine from the sample he got from her when she had mumps.

    Now try to read with some reading comprehension: there are several mumps vaccine strains. They have all been studied for efficacy and safety. While the Jeryl Lynn strain is not as effective as the Urabe strain, it is safer.

    Here, knock yourself out.

  23. #23 Chris
    About to leave medical building waiting room...
    June 28, 2012

    And here is an actual paper, it took me two minutes to find with the medical center’s wonky wifi:
    Mumps Outbreaks in Vaccinated Populations: Are Available Mumps Vaccines Effective Enough to Prevent Outbreaks?

  24. #24 Chemmomo
    United States, not Japan or UK
    June 28, 2012

    Thinking Mom @ 12:27 pm 28 Jun
    How is the Urabe strain relevant to the lawsuit in Alabama?

  25. #25 Chemmomo
    Science, not Law
    June 28, 2012

    From Thinking Mom’s own link @11:52 am 28 Jun

    “Merck has presented information that demonstrated to the United States Department of Justice that these allegations are factually false, and after the Department conducted its own two-year investigation, it decided not to pursue this lawsuit,” [Merck spokesman] Rogers said.

    I suspect that if the Merck guy invented the opinion from the Department of Justice, one of their spokespeople will let us the truth.

  26. #26 Chemmomo
    Land of Typos
    June 28, 2012

    That’s supposed to read “let us know the truth”

  27. #27 Thinking Mom
    People before profit
    June 28, 2012

    @Chemmom
    My response was to Chris’ 12:08 comment

    Oh yes, the peer reviewed studies, the holy grail of the religion of the vaccine fanatics

    Plenty o’ JUNK SCIENCE out there, ghost written, falsified “evidence” and facts ignored

    this Merck case is just the tip of the iceberg

  28. #28 DW
    June 28, 2012

    And what’s not junk science? Wakefield?

  29. #29 Narad
    June 28, 2012

    It looks like a coordinated smear campaign by those who have failed with science, and are now trying the courts.

    The people jumping up and down, or the case? There’s obviously a financial motivation for the qui tam plaintiffs. Note that the Department of Justice passed on prosecuting the case.

  30. #30 Lawrence
    June 28, 2012

    I think “Thinking Mom” has been hitting the MMS a little too hard….you’re supposed to stop before you get diarrhea of the mouth….

  31. #31 Narad
    June 28, 2012

    Note that the Department of Justice passed on prosecuting the case.

    Sorry, I see that Chris had already noted this. I hadn’t read to the end.

  32. #32 JGC
    June 28, 2012

    Plenty o’ JUNK SCIENCE out there, ghost written, falsified “evidence” and facts ignored

    Citations desparately needed. Please indicate precisely which studies supporting the safety and efficacy of Mumps or MMR vaccines you’re referring to here, and provide the evidence which demonstrates they represent junk science, are ghost written, contain falsified evidence, and/or ignore credibly established facts.

  33. #33 Chemmomo
    Neither hypothetical nor rhetorical
    June 28, 2012

    Thinking Mom @12:58 pm

    @Chemmom
    My response was to Chris’ 12:08 comment

    I read all the comments by both you and Chris. I was asking you a question. Can you answer it?

  34. #34 Chris
    Back home...
    June 28, 2012

    Okay, Thinking Mom, go look at this paper on mumps vaccine efficacy and tell us which of the 106 citations are “UNK SCIENCE out there, ghost written, falsified “evidence” and facts ignored.”

    (It is the same as the paper I linked to above, but the HTML version has its reference list screwed up, the PDF version has the actual references.)

  35. #35 lilady
    June 28, 2012

    (non) Thinking Mom…mighty long on accusations and, mighty short on rebuttal *science*., eh?

    You’re not in Kansas anymore and you’re not posting on AoA, (non) Thinking Mom. Now about those citations…..

  36. #36 Chris
    Off to the garden...
    June 28, 2012

    I am not quite sure how well “Thinking Mom” is even reading. She does not seem to understand that there have been studies going on for years on mumps vaccine efficacy, and that I told her only one mumps strain was used in the USA.

  37. #37 Liz Ditz
    In the library, with the evidence
    June 28, 2012

    First Chris, I am hoping that your trip to the medical building had to do with that cardio rehab returning to health stuff.

    I just want to say how proud I am of this comment, on my semi-live (well, I was listening to the broadcast committee meeting) summaries of the AB 2109 hearing by the Health Committee, posted here last night.

    The comments were copypasta’d to a FB group opposing the bill, and the copypasta-er asked who I was. (She was somewhat aggrieved that I did not appear to be in the live audience. However, I live about 4 hours from Sacramento, and didn’t feel my presence would have shifted anything.)

    source

    Liz Ditz is a spiteful little wench. She is a pro-vax zealot that writes nasty stuff about people who fight for vaccine safety. She actually went to a vaccine rights rally and asked for a picture with Dr. Wakefield, who graciously agreed and was incredibly nice to her, then she turned around and posted the picture with an article saying how terrible he and everyone who attended was. She didn’t have the guts to express her views are engage in debate – she waits untill she is safe at home to sling mud when people can’t defend themselves. A real piece of cowardly work.

    It’s the usual bit of good anti-vaccinationist research. I’ve never been to a vaccine-rights rally, and I’ve never been in the same town as Wakefield.

    The commenter is referring to Jamie Bernstein’s meeting with Wakefield. at the 2010 rally. Jamie is part of the Women Thinking foundation and one of the powerhouses behind the brilliant Hug Me, I’m Vaccinated campaign.

  38. #38 novalox
    June 29, 2012

    @Liz Ditz

    Thanks for the updates on the bill. And thanks for the link, I had a great laugh at the ignorance posted at that FB site.

    @”thinking” mom

    Thanks for that utter display of arrogance of ignorance. You provided me with some good laughs for the day.

    Please keep posting, I do need some chuckles and you seem like the perfect dunce to provide some laughs.

  39. #39 Chris
    About to run errands...
    June 29, 2012

    Liz Ditz:

    First Chris, I am hoping that your trip to the medical building had to do with that cardio rehab returning to health stuff.

    Yes. Three days a week for the entire summer (thirty six times that are authorized by the insurance company, that still covers this young man because of the federal Affordable Care Act, which has been approved by the Supreme Court).

  40. […] about it at least a couple of times before. In fact, for some reason, the comment section of this post on AB 2109 suddenly come alive again a couple of days ago, with antivaccinationists infiltrating it, much to […]

  41. #41 Chris
    Wish college kis would have told us he had to work more today..
    June 30, 2012

    Oh, “Thinking Mom”, we are waiting for your analysis of the paper on the efficacy of the three mumps vaccine strains, including explaining which of the over 100 references were “Plenty o’ JUNK SCIENCE out there, ghost written, falsified “evidence” and facts ignored.” Be sure to tell us which facts were were ignored and how the evidence was falsified. Be sure to back up your statements with real evidence.

  42. #42 chris s
    July 4, 2012

    Vaccines are one of the most dangerous public health risks in the world today. Children receive now over 36 shots before their 5th birthday (With more being added each year!) We’ve already witnessed Autism which was virtually non existant in 1930 when vaccines were at a bare minimum to 1 in 88 in 2008 (the most recent study done by the CDC them self!… so by now the numbers are even worse.)

    Furthermore all you pro vaccines brainwashed fools simply spout the rhetoric you are told by your tv… over HALF of your favorite television’s stations’ revenue comes from the pharmaceutical industry! It’s no coincidence that Big Pharma is always portrayed in a postive light on the idiot box! They pay hundreds of millions for that image!

    Finally… the TRUE global authority on vaccinations (and their many side effects) is Dr Hugh Fudenberg. He has been studying vaccines since the 60’s and has over 850 published peer reviewed journals 100% on vaccines. He is on the record as saying “receiving 5 yearly flu shots within 10 years will increase your chance of causing Alzheimer’s disease by 1000%.” This is a man with over 40 years of experience in the vaccine field.

    Before all you pro vaccine zombies parrot some more rhetoric you have been programmed to spout, rather than THINK for your self you should check out Hugh’s website.

    http://www.nitrf.org/fudenberg.html

    some of his most recent peer reviewed publications:

    843. Fudenberg, H.H.: Autism Induced By Lactation After Maternal Immunization International Journal of Clinical Investigation 14: 32-33, 2006

    858. Fudenberg, H.H.: Alzheimer’s Disease in INdividuals with prolonged exposure to Toxic Metals and Chemicals Submitted Neurotoxicology2011

    So if this man, the WORLD WIDE authority and #1 most educated on the subject of vaccines is warning you of the dangers of vaccines, do you dumb sheep really think it’s healthy for your to be injecting your children with 36 doses of POISON before they blow out 5 candles on their birthday cake? Use some common sense and stop listening to what PAID PROPAGANDA tells you. Some of the responses on this page are so juvenile and free of any facts or logic its an absolute disgrace.

  43. #43 MI Dawn
    July 4, 2012

    @Chris s: strange, I don’t see anywhere in Dr Fudenburg’s CV that he has any training in immunology. His training all seemed to be in hematology, which is not the same thing. And I’m a bit bemused that he manages to submit so many articles to journals in a year – MOST reliable researchers only get 1 or 2 written. And what happened between 2005 and 2012? 7 years is a LONG time for nothing to be published – almost like he’s become a quack.

    Given that the man’s bibliography is extensive, I just skimmed through it. He has quite a few publications on hematology – I’d give him authority for that. But since I can’t find ANYWHERE that he has training and knowledge in either neurology or immunology, the fact he’s written artlcles that were published don’t impress me (after all, Andy Wakefield was published, too).

    Now, if you can prove that Dr Fudenburg HAS this knowledge and is an authority in vaccines, without the relevant education, I’ll thank you. Until then, I’ll believe people who have training and experience in immunology, infectious disease, and other related health disciplines regarding vaccines and autism.

  44. #44 lilady
    July 4, 2012

    @ Chris S. Your pal lost his medical license because he was using some *Big Illegally-Procured Drugs*

    http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/fudenberg/1995order.shtml

    Poor Hughie…he even got himself with the Wakefield mess and brought himself to the attention of Brian Deer:

    http://briandeer.com/wakefield/hugh-fudenberg.htm

    Thanks for the laughs Chris S.

  45. #45 lilady
    July 4, 2012

    @ MI Dawn: Too bad I’ll be missing the *fun* when you take Chris S. down. I’ll leave Chris S. in your capable hands as I am signing off now…to pack for a trip to enjoy the holiday with friends.

    Happy July 4th holiday to you all.

  46. #46 Narad
    July 4, 2012

    Furthermore all you pro vaccines brainwashed fools simply spout the rhetoric you are told by your tv…

    And what, pray tell, leads you to believe you know anything about the TV viewing habits of others? Projection? Wishful thinking?

  47. #47 Chemmomo
    TV advertisements? But I have a DVR
    July 4, 2012

    chris s,
    if “the TRUE global authority on vaccinations” is Dr Hugh Fudenberg, how come most of us have never heard of him before?

    Some of the responses on this page are so juvenile and free of any facts or logic its an absolute disgrace.

    Would you consider it juvenile if I point out that this assessment also describes your own?

  48. #48 novalox
    July 4, 2012

    @chris s

    Thanks for the laughs at your absolute unintentional stupidity. It’s funny to see you projecting your own pathetic faults onto others.

    In this case, calling you stupid isn’t juvenile, it’s an established fact after your inane posting.

  49. #49 Marc Stephens Is Insane
    July 4, 2012

    So this disbarred drug addled quack charges $750 an hour? And they say Big Pharma is all about the money…

  50. #50 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    July 4, 2012

    And what, pray tell, leads you to believe you know anything about the TV viewing habits of others? Projection? Wishful thinking?

    I know right? I don’t even watch telly and I had no idea that’s how pharma shills got their information. Besides, most countries don’t even allow direct to consumer pharma marketing. I’m so glad there are Chris Ss of the world to enlighten us.

  51. #51 Chris
    Neither here nor there...
    July 4, 2012

    Isn’t Huge Fudenberg the nut who claimed to have an autism cure that he made by rolling his own bone marrow on his kitchen table?

  52. #52 Marc Stephens Is Insane
    July 4, 2012

    Chris,

    Yes, that’s the guy. A colleague of Wakefield too. The Casewatch documents lilady posted are very interesting, especially the links to Brian Deer’s site. Deer has memos going back to 1997 when Wakefraud was just starting to concoct his scam with this Fudenberg dude.

  53. #53 dedicated lurker
    July 4, 2012

    I don’t have a TV, but my neighbor in the next apartment watches TV a lot, and I hear it. Is that poison by proxy?

  54. #54 Chris
    Neither here nor there...
    July 4, 2012

    Most of the college age and slightly older persons I know do not own televisions. They instead watch programs over the internet. Sometimes legally.

    The only program that my soon to attend college daughter and I watch together is “Project Runway.” I don’t believe there is much in the way of medical information on it, even though it is on Lifetime.

  55. #55 Anton P. Nym
    http://anton-p-nym.livejournal.com/
    July 4, 2012

    This pro-vax TV misinformation must be homeopathic in operation, given that I don’t have cable and thus watch maybe 5hrs a week via my ancient rabbit-ear antennea..

    (The succussion is definitely there; some of the crap I see on TV has me head-desking.)

    – Steve

  56. #56 Darwy
    Røde grøde med fløde....but live free or die atm.
    July 4, 2012

    “Furthermore all you pro vaccines brainwashed fools simply spout the rhetoric you are told by your tv…”

    So Emeril was wrong when he said I should season both sides of the meat?

  57. #57 BlueCollarCritic
    July 9, 2012

    Bill AB2109 and every other law that infringes on an individual’s right of choice of anything needs to go. It does NOT matter whether it’s a good idea or not, the government does NOT have the Constitutional authority to force citizens to do take a vaccine nor give one to their kids and its egregious that anyone thinks that government should do this. This kind of government backed , forced “good intention” acts are the first steps down a path to a tyrannical police state.

    These transitions from freedom and liberty to a police state don’t happen overnight they come in small incremental steps. WW2 era Germany didn’t turn into a Nazi police state overnight. It came in waves of reasonable sounding acts by government until government had obtain enough power and control that it nop longer had to implement changes incrementally and that’s when they started yanking people off the streets and asking for “Papers please”. Only a fool believes this is not possible here just because we are the United States and or because we have the Constitution. The Federal Government has already violated several of the Bill of Rights via the Patriot Act and thru expansion of government authorities like the creation of the TSA. Remember the TSA? It was supposed to be for airport screening and yet we now have TSA agents leading military troops and local law enforcement in raids and check points on our highways. Just because you haven’t seen one of these check points that doesn’t mean they don’t exists.

    Lastly, the author if this article is in serious need of a return trip to the classroom for basic reading skills because their interpretation of what the quoted individual meant is beyond ridiculous. It’s a stretch beyond description. It sounds to me like the articles author is practicing borderline “hate speech”. Might want to be careful with that as the Feds will soon start penalizing individuals for engaging n such unsanctioned speech and the 1st amendment be dammed.

  58. #58 AdamG
    July 9, 2012

    Bill AB2109 and every other law that infringes on an individual’s right of choice of anything needs to go

    Care to explain exactly how this bill “infringes on an individual’s right of choice?”

  59. #59 Chris
    Cooking dinner...
    July 9, 2012

    BlueCollarCritic, do the laws that extend to infringing on your individual right of choice extend to buying car insurance? Because I believe it was your seventeen year old daughter that totaled our car by going through the intersection when she was not supposed to.

    Fortunately our insurance company is presently dealing with her family to recoup some of their losses because they were not insured. This is no recourse to recoup the cost and worry that parents of babies who get pertussis or measles from your unvaccinated special little snowflakes must endure.

    Oh, and this is delicious:

    WW2 era Germany didn’t turn into a Nazi police state overnight. It came in waves of reasonable sounding acts by government until government had obtain enough power and control that it nop longer had to implement changes incrementally and that’s when they started yanking people off the streets and asking for “Papers please”

    A Godwin! How fun and original. So do you also refuse to get a driver’s license and refuse to show it to the nice police officer after running a red light?

  60. #60 Chemmomo
    Land Without Preview
    July 9, 2012

    BlueCollarCritic @ July 9, 8:35 pm
    Have you even read the bill? Here’s the current amended text:
    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_2101-2150/ab_2109_bill_20120620_amended_sen_v97.pdf
    Please find the specific passages including the requirements “ to force citizens to do take a vaccine” and “ give one to their kids.”

    Requiring that parents receive informed consent about vaccines is not the first steps down a path to a tyrannical police state.”

    Comparing the state of California’s closing a loophole in current law large enough to allow outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases (measles, San Diego, 2008; pertussis, statewide, 2010) to Nazi Germany is ridiculous and, frankly, downright offensive.

  61. #61 Narad
    July 9, 2012

    Bill AB2109 and every other law that infringes on an individual’s right of choice of anything needs to go.

    Given that there is no right whatever to a “personal belief” exemption in the first place, your further “constitutional” blathering is misplaced.

  62. #62 Composer99
    July 9, 2012

    Claiming that:

    WW2 era Germany didn’t turn into a Nazi police state overnight. It came in waves of reasonable sounding acts by government until government had obtain enough power and control that it nop longer had to implement changes incrementally and that’s when they started yanking people off the streets and asking for “Papers please”.

    as BlueCollarCritic has done, is to make unequivocally false claims.

    The Weimar Republic, since the start of the Depression, had seen its constitutional arrangements torn up by a series of governments. At any rate, the Nazi Party had hardly made any secret of its desire to destroy the Weimar system, and began effecting the destruction of the Republic immediately after gaining power.

    As texts such as The Coming of the Third Reich and The Third Reich in Power show, none of the key acts by the Nazi government which led Germany to a totalitarian state could be said to be reasonable on their own, to say nothing of viewed in their entirety.

    So I think we can rack this up as an analogy fail. Try again, BlueCollarCritic. AB2109 is nothing like the kind of legislation pushed through the Reichstag from 1933 on.

  63. #63 Chris
    Almost dinner...
    July 9, 2012

    Perhaps BlueCollarCritic is an undocumented alien, and is worried he is going to be deported because he has none of those nasty “papers.” Like a driver’s license, birth certificate, social security card or proof of motor vehicle insurance.

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