Respectful Insolence

…that’s right. It’ll soon be time to get your flu shot. Listen to ZDoggMD:

I think I’ll ask for the thimerosol-containing version of the vaccine again this year.

Comments

  1. #1 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 21, 2012

    So do I :)

    Alain

  2. #2 Darwy
    Røde grøde med fløde
    August 21, 2012

    Yep time to order mine from my dr.

  3. #3 lilady
    August 21, 2012

    As usual ZDoggMD is very entertaining.

    There are *slightly* different seasonal influenza vaccines recommendations this year for children ages six months-eight years of age. In prior years, the recommendations from the CDC and the AAP, were that these children needed two flu shots 28 days apart ONLY during the first year that they received seasonal influenza vaccine.

    The new recommendations now state that if children within this age group who, (for any reason), did not receive the separate 2009 H1N1 vaccine and did not receive seasonal influenza vaccines during 2010-2011 or 2011-2012 which contained the H1N1 influenza strain…that they should receive two shots of the 2012-2013 influenza vaccine, 28 days apart:

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6132a3.htm

    Vaccine Dose Considerations for Children Aged 6 Months Through 8 Years

    Children aged 6 months through 8 years require 2 doses of influenza vaccine (administered a minimum of 4 weeks apart) during their first season of vaccination to optimize immune response. In a study of children aged 5 through 8 years receiving trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine (TIV) for the first time, the proportion of children with protective antibody responses was significantly higher after 2 doses compared with a single dose (6). Several studies have indicated that the time interval between two initial doses (from 4 weeks up to 1 year) of the same antigen might not be critical (7–9). However, because of the antigenic novelty of the 2009(H1N1) pandemic virus, which is anticipated to continue circulating during 2012–13, exposure history to this antigen also must be considered. Children who last received seasonal (trivalent) influenza vaccine before the 2010–11 season but did not receive a vaccine containing 2009(H1N1) antigen (either seasonal vaccine since July 2010 or monovalent 2009[H1N1] vaccine) will not have received this antigen. These children are recommended to receive 2 doses this season, even if 2 doses of seasonal influenza vaccine were received before the 2010–11 season. This is illustrated in two approaches for determining the number of doses required for children aged 6 months through 8 years, both of which are acceptable (Figure 1).

    1. The first approach takes into consideration only doses of seasonal influenza vaccine received since July 1, 2010. This recommendation is harmonized with that of the American Academy of Pediatrics (10). This approach has the advantage of simplicity, particularly in settings in which ascertaining vaccination history before the 2010–11 season is difficult. Using this approach, children aged 6 months through 8 years need only 1 dose of vaccine in 2012–13 if they received a total of 2 or more doses of seasonal vaccine since July 1, 2010. Children who did not receive a total of 2 or more doses of seasonal vaccine since July 1, 2010, require 2 doses in 2012–13.

  4. #4 Renate
    August 21, 2012

    It makes far more sence the The Refusers.

  5. #5 trrll
    August 21, 2012

    Good idea! When I was a child back in the ’50’s, my mother routinely painted every scratch and scrape with mercury antiseptic. But today, my only source of mercury is the occasional tunafish sandwich. I’m concerned that deficiency of this important nutrient might be bad for my health. After all, as we have been repeatedly told, there was hardly any autism back in the ’50’s. I certainly wouldn’t want to become autistic, particularly at my advanced age….

  6. #6 Ren
    Not Melbourne, Australia
    August 21, 2012

    The way Australia goes, we usually go. Go check out the heck of a time Australia had this summer (their winter) with H3N2 (the seasonal, not the new, improved H3N2v). Look at their morbidity and mortality for the younger age groups. And then, for the love of Pete, go get the shot. Let’s not be Australia this season.

  7. #7 Liz Ditz
    In the pharmacy, waiting for the flu vax to arrive
    August 21, 2012

    Renate, it’s because ZdoggMD is both a talented performer and is a highly qualified medical professional.

  8. #8 Todd W.
    http://harpocratesspeaks.com
    August 21, 2012

    I’m lucky to have an employer that provides free flu shots to all employees. Soon as it’s available, I’ll be in line.

  9. #9 furtivezoog
    August 21, 2012

    Thanks for the comment about the children’s vaccination schedule. I’ll know to ask about what specifically my 1 year old should get.

  10. #10 Renate
    August 21, 2012

    I suppose my dad will get his free shot later this year. I’m still to young to get it.

  11. #11 lilady
    August 21, 2012

    @ trrll: If you remember back then…you probably got doses of organomercury in the Mercurochrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merbromin …as well as the Merthiolate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merthiolate …that was painted on your cuts and scrapes.

    (I don’t think I am *vaccine-damaged* from all that thimerisol exposure)

  12. #12 Alia
    August 21, 2012

    I never had access to free flu vaccine but with my former head teacher we had at least a doctor come to our school to give paid shots to everyone that wanted to get them Unfortunately, we have a new head teacher and now I need to find a place to have a flu shot and arrange an appointment (and of course pay). But I’ll do it anyway.

    And you know what – it suprises me to no end that so few teachers at my school took advantage of flu shots when they were available. After all, if you meet 600 students every day at the height of flu season, you should do everything to protect yourself.

    On a side note, my father always gets his free flu shots every year (lucky him). My mother also qualifies for free flu shots but unfortunately she is one of those few people who suffer from severe side effects.

  13. #13 Liz Ditz
    Calling for help with the woo-sters.
    August 21, 2012

    I have an AB 2109 blog that’s been infested with one antivax type who kind of sounds like Sid Offit (Bob Schecter). Here are the links

    http://californianssupportingab2109.blogspot.com/2012/07/listening-to-those-opposed-to-ab-2109_1342.html

    and

    http://californianssupportingab2109.blogspot.com/2012/07/call-to-action-contact-senate.html

    So if anybody besides SkepticalRaptor would like to chime in, feel free.

  14. #14 shawmutt
    August 21, 2012

    One of the benefits of actually being a Big Pharma shill is that I get my family flu shots free and early. While the kind we get don’t have thimerisol, I make sure to ask for extra toxins to make up for it ;-)

  15. #15 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    August 21, 2012

    There’s an advertising banner for you. Flu Shots – now with Extra Toxins!

  16. #16 lilady
    August 21, 2012

    @ Liz Ditz:

    Thanks for the *heads up*…I’ve done my part.

    IMO, “anonymous” does not sound like Boob/Sid Offal…but then I’ve been wrong before :-)

  17. #17 JaneMD
    http://cheaplifeexpensiveeducation.blogspot.com/
    August 21, 2012

    Yay ZdoggMD, but I miss Dr. Harry. Can’t wait for Child2 to get his first flu shot! Six months old!

  18. #18 lilady
    August 21, 2012

    @ Jane MD…I miss ZDogg’s adorable daughter ZPupp, who was featured in another of his videos. :-)

  19. #19 JustaTech
    August 21, 2012

    Right. Got to remember my flu shot this year. Last year work was stupid about it (On a Monday? And you had to sign up a week early?). The real trick is cool-weather work clothes that still let the nurse get at your upper arm without giving your coworkers a show.

  20. #20 Denice Walter
    August 21, 2012

    Well, I tried to tabulate how many times I was vaccinated ( records lost; attended several elitist educational facilities in far-flung locales), traveled to some awful places and counselled people / had aged family members with serious illness ( many flu vaccines) PLUS have dental fillings done long ago. That adds up to a lot of Hg.

    Still no autism. Actually, on Baron-Cohen’s ASQ, I come up as quite the reverse- maybe Hg is protective.
    My anecdote trumps their anecdotes.

  21. #21 bad poet
    August 21, 2012

    Can’t wait! I even got a $10 off coupon from Targe. I have to pay for my own, but it is so worth it. I’m low on my thimerosal, too.

  22. #22 Sauceress
    August 21, 2012

    OT but I wanted to share this (my cousin’s 6yo daughter has T1D)
    From TypeOne DiabetesAwareness

    Please click this link and vote for Sam Talbot, he is playing for JDRF and if he wins JDRF will receive $10k. He is currently in 3rd place. You don’t even need to sign up it’s just 1 click. You can vote once per day. Please vote & share this link.” http://www.makethatsandwich.com/celebrity-chefs/index

    And I need a cookie. Back next week for some catch up.

  23. #23 CC
    August 21, 2012

    I normally didn’t bother with the seasonal flu shot because I rarely get even a cold, but there are enough people at work with kids now that maybe I should this year…

    I am planning to get my “other vaccines” status checked out anyway – prompted by the pertussis outbreaks that have been in the news lately. The description of “a cold with a cough that lingers for weeks afterward, so you don’t know it’s pertussis until you’ve spread it far and wide” as being a common course for healthy adults describes *all* of my colds, when I do get them.

  24. #24 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 22, 2012

    @Denice, I got 25 on the AQ: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

    Alain

  25. #25 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 22, 2012

    @Sauceress, Voted.

    Alain

  26. #26 Cath of Canberra
    August 22, 2012

    Not for me. Spring is in the air! I had my shot back in February or March, and I have not had flu this winter. Nor even my customary week-long horrible no good very bad cold. Very weirdly, my current ill-health seems to have fixed all my other problems. (*touches wood* HEY! Touching wood is at least as effective as homeopathy, and much more fun if you get a nice volunteer to help.)

  27. #27 BB
    August 22, 2012

    What a great video to send to my DD#2, starting her MPH in Atlanta this week. This daughter plans to make a career of vaccine policy. Anti-vaxxers will be on her radar in 2 years.

  28. #28 DurhamDave
    Disserta....zzzz
    August 22, 2012

    @Alain Hmm. First time I’ve seen that test, and scored 36. Although some of things I was answering I’m pretty sure are worse since CFS.

  29. #29 AllieP
    August 22, 2012

    When do you think it’ll be available? Headed to a con in a few weeks and since those are always hotbeds of viruses, I’d like to get my family as shot up as possible beforehand.

  30. #30 Mu
    August 22, 2012

    Having kids dropped my score on the AQ test by 10 points. No more time to be an obsessive MMO gamer planing the day around the next raid ;)

  31. #31 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 22, 2012

    Compared to a few years ago, I may have dropped 10 to 15 points too because I’m much more social and thus, I developped a fairly good theory of mind but sometime, I still manage to piss off some people (like Garbo @ AoA who don’t seem to have developped a theory of my mind).

    Alain

  32. #32 lilady
    August 22, 2012

    @ BB Why not send DD#2 the You Tube page with all the ZDoggMD videos?

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ZDoggMD

    And why BB, haven’t you send her the RI website?

  33. #33 Denice Walter
    August 22, 2012

    @ DurhamDave:
    @ Mu:
    @ Alain:

    I have a very, very low score BUT isn’t it interesting that we can all be on the same wavelength so to speak : people are each and all a confluence of diverse abilities – each person unique and multi-dimensional. Which is great.

  34. #34 Roadstergal
    Yay Area, CA
    August 22, 2012

    We get free convenient flu shots through my work (just drop in, no signup required, offered at multiple buildings), and still, people at my work do the ‘Oh, it’s just the ‘flu…’ thing. *sigh* And I work in the life sciences. Ah, well, I’ll be getting it, at least. I got it from my PCP last year because I needed the Tdap, so I got a shot in each arm. Still not autistic.

  35. #35 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 22, 2012

    @ Denice:
    @ DurhamDave:
    @ Mu:

    Denice, I agree with you. Gang, how about going to the pub after our shot?

    Alain

  36. #36 Denice Walter
    August 22, 2012

    @ Alain:

    Sure. I do believe that the excess formaldehyde, polysorbate and thimerisol newly circulating in the bloodstream might possibly enhance the bouquet of the essence of juniper berries considerably.

    FYI- one of my ancestors was well-known for his essence of juniper berries.

  37. #37 flip
    August 22, 2012

    I got a score of 25. Which doesn’t surprise me at all. Sometimes I think I have autistic tendencies.

  38. #38 Phoenix Woman
    August 22, 2012

    By the way, did you see this study? Seems that having an elderly biological father may be linked to autism and schizophrenia: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/health/fathers-age-is-linked-to-risk-of-autism-and-schizophrenia.html?emc=na

  39. #39 Narad
    August 22, 2012

    I was somewhere in the AQ mid-30s when my shrink of the time suggested I take it. This was deemed “clinically significant.” On the other hand, a Rogerian approach was also deemed clinically appropriate. No soap.

  40. #40 herr doktor bimler
    August 22, 2012

    possibly enhance the bouquet of the essence of juniper berries considerably.
    I have heard that combining the juniper extract with a dilute quinine solution has synergistic effects.

  41. #41 Johnny
    Between here and there
    August 22, 2012

    I’ve come to the conclusion that those who don’t get flu shots have never had the flu. By “flu”, I mean the real flu, not the 24 hour bug, not a bad cold, not all the other ‘flu like illnesses’. I mean the real body ache, high fever, in bed almost a week, and wish you could get well enough to die flu. I remember sitting on the couch, in an 80 degree room, with a sweater, coat, gloves, and a hat, and wishing I could stop shivering. The most interesting part of the whole experience was that I felt the fever break. I was completely miserable, then for the first time in days I felt warm and relaxed, but still sick.

    I would pay extra for a flu shot, and have made it a priority to get one every year after that. The flu hurts.

    I’d also like everyone to keep in mind that if a few more people had got their flu shots a few years ago, we wouldn’t have wrong sounding ‘Muppets’ today.

  42. #42 Denice Walter
    August 22, 2012

    @ herr doktor bimler:

    It’s true! And I’ve never had malaria.
    It must be Traditional European Medicine/ ancient ancestral herbalism, I suspect.

  43. #43 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 22, 2012

    @Phoenix Woman

    I remember some hypotheses about paternal age being linked to autism but this article explain it very well.

    Alain

  44. #44 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 22, 2012

    @Denice:

    I had to wikipedia juniper berry and it sound like it goes along well with gin; perhaps it would be good with white & spiced beer :)

    Alain

  45. #45 herr doktor bimler
    August 22, 2012
  46. #46 Denice Walter
    August 22, 2012

    @ Alain:

    Actually the highly esteemd ancestor was famous for his gin. Lord knows what else went into it! Turpentine, perhaps?

    A friend from Italy noted that their much-loved grandmother used to dose whomosever was sick in the family ( cold, flu, sore throat) including children- with Benedictine, saying that it had herbs in it and that the monks knew what they were doing.
    Again, Traditional European Medicine.

  47. #47 MI Dawn
    August 22, 2012

    Uh..can that juniper berry stuff go with bitter lemon with quinine, rather than that other tonic type stuff? I’ll join the party if you have bitter lemon.

    Unfortunately, my work doesn’t supply the GOOD vaccine with thimerosol. They have individual vials. (pouts, sulks). I asked about ti last year and they won’t get it that way. How can I get my mercury if they won’t inject me with it? My mom is all out of Merthiolate…

  48. #48 Narad
    August 22, 2012

    I was nowhere in the AQ mid-30s when my shrink of the time suggested I take it. This was deemed “clinically significant.” On the other hand, a Rogerian approach was also deemed clinically appropriate. Lots of soap.

  49. #49 Sid Offit
    August 22, 2012

    Misogynistic nerd rap. Brilliant! Keep up the good work.

  50. #50 Sid Offit
    August 22, 2012

    Just curious, but do most of you males here urinate in your trousers when encountering a marginally attractive women?

  51. #51 Sid Offit
    August 22, 2012

    Wasn’t me, Liz.

  52. #52 Narad
    August 22, 2012

    Just curious, but do most of you males here urinate in your trousers when encountering a marginally attractive women?

    Does marginally increased mucous production and general humidity in your presence count?

  53. #53 Uncle Glenny
    August 22, 2012

    I got AQ of 37. I think it’s social anxiety though.

    I’ve used juniper berries as seasoning, mainly sauerkraut based dishes.

  54. #54 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 23, 2012

    @Sid, Maybe in your dream that happen but why do you ask? do you have a fixation to pee in your pants? is it your restricted interest?

    Alain

  55. #55 lilady
    August 23, 2012

    I have a juniper tree near my back deck and when I make gravalox I crush some of the berries in gin to splash on the salmon. I also use bunches of fresh dill..not tarragon, Narad :-)
    Alain, I think juniper berries are what give the gin its flavor. Try crushing a berry between your fingers and sniffing the scent…smells like a very dry martini.

    So Offal, when are you getting your flu shot?

  56. #56 Narad
    August 23, 2012

    I also use bunches of fresh dill..not tarragon, Narad

    In honor of the bicentennial of the War of 1812, I dare you.

  57. #57 Chris
    Neither here nor there...
    August 23, 2012

    I use juniper berries for my version of choucroute garnie. Relax, it is just a French version of sauerkraut with sausage and pork. My version also includes thinly sliced apple, and lots of time in a low heat oven.

    Like many classic recipes that actually started out as something assembled in a pot in the morning and set on coals to be eaten as the large mid-day meal before going back to work the fields. Which is how I modified beef bourguignon (brown meat, saute onion and mushroom, add flour, herbs and wine and cook at low heat for hours). These were life savers when all three kids played soccer… on the same day.

  58. #58 lilady
    August 23, 2012

    I just might take you up on that dare…recipe emailed to dear hubby.

    He keeps emailing me recipes for porchetta and I suppose I’ll fire up the Big Green Egg…just to shut him up:

    http://www.biggreenegg.com/about-us/

  59. #59 Julian Frost
    NOYDB
    August 23, 2012

    Is this a Science Blog or a cooking blog?
    Having said that, yum.

  60. #60 lilady
    August 23, 2012

    @ Julian…It’s a science blog, but when blinky box is in sleep mode…the foodies come out to play.

  61. #61 Narad
    August 23, 2012

    Is this a Science Blog or a cooking blog?

    I’m not giving up in the standing tarragon battle. Plus, it apparently is some sort of supplement target.

  62. #62 lilady
    August 23, 2012

    But dill has more medicinal properties for more maladies…

    http://www.digherbs.com/dill.html

    How’s that corned beef or pastrami on rye…with a tarragon pickle?

  63. #63 herr doktor bimler
    August 23, 2012

    dill has more medicinal properties
    Aalborg Dill Akvavit. I am not in any way remunerated by Big Akvavit for advertising it, though if they want to pay me, I will not turn the offer down.

  64. #64 alison
    salivating furiously
    August 23, 2012

    lilady – you might enjoy the various nommylicious recipes that appear here from time to time (I think cooking runs in our family): http://therandombabblingsofadisturbedmind.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/party-party-party.html

  65. #65 herr doktor bimler
    August 23, 2012

    nommylicious recipes
    I read that as “non-mycelious” and wondered “Why would you not want fungi?”

  66. #66 alison
    August 23, 2012

    I fear that your immediate family do not share your fungal fascination. (unless it includes mushrooms.. mmmm mushrooms. And bacon. With garlic & sour cream.)

  67. #67 DurhamDave
    August 23, 2012

    I should really sart looking into getting up to date on things. I stopped because we didn’t know what was wrong with me, and so didn’t want to provoke stuff. I should look into if it is recommended against for some reason.

    I seems a bit random. I can’t give blood for example.

  68. #68 DurhamDave
    August 23, 2012

    And grr, now want bacon…

  69. #69 Denice Walter
    August 23, 2012

    OK, I am not usually one to give recipes BUT here is something that my grandfather taught my father; it has a long history I was told:

    you stick sliced cheese ( try Muenster or Gruyere) with a smidgeon of butter/ margarine between 2 slices of white bread
    you may also add thin sliced ham or turkey, if you wish.

    Dip the entire thing in beaten egg and fry on a lightly oiled pan.
    You may serve with bacon, if you like but a few teaspoons of
    golden/sugar syrup are MANDATORY ( Maple is alright).

    Right, it’s a variant on *Croque Monsieur* perhaps more rightly called ‘Croak, Mister!’ and it is a vegan’s worst nightmare.

    -btw- OH, Sid!

  70. #70 lilady
    August 23, 2012

    @ Alison: Someone once said to me it is near to impossible to get a bad meal in France. I might add that I found some superb meals in Quebec province, as well.

    Hubby has just departed for his weekly meetup with his lunch crony. They are going to dine at an Indian restaurant recommended by my friend … who is Indian-Guyanese, then off to a huge Indian supermarket.

  71. #71 Beamup
    August 23, 2012

    @ Denice:

    Kind of a cross between grilled cheese and French toast – sounds yummy!

  72. #72 Shay
    August 23, 2012

    Actually it sounds kind of like a Monte Christo (popular 50 years ago but you don’t run into it very often nowadays. I see it a lot in old cookbooks).

  73. #73 Narad
    August 23, 2012

    Aalborg Dill Akvavit. I am not in any way remunerated by Big Akvavit for advertising it, though if they want to pay me, I will not turn the offer down.

    Mercy. I can imagine people sitting around and thinking, “You know, this caraway just isn’t bad enough. How could we make this more horrifying?” (I am, however, still a booster of Jeppson’s Malört.)

  74. #74 lilady
    August 23, 2012

    @ Narad: How’s that corned beef/pastrami on rye (minus caraway seeds), with a tarragon pickle. :-)

  75. #75 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    August 23, 2012

    Right, it’s a variant on *Croque Monsieur* perhaps more rightly called ‘Croak, Mister!’ and it is a vegan’s worst nightmare.

    I do a variant of this with ciabatta, mozzarella and sundried tomatoes. It only gives the vapours to vegans.

  76. #76 Beamup
    August 23, 2012

    @ Science Mom:

    I was always confused when I read about “sundried tomatoes.” Sundry is of course an adjective meaning various; how does it become a verb applied to tomatoes?

    Then I actually heard somebody say it. Ah. The difference a little hyphen would have made…

  77. #77 Chris
    Neither here nor there...
    August 23, 2012

    I am off to the store to buy something suitable to have with roasted finger potatoes, and perhaps a sauce made from the juice of the aronia berries I will be picking today.

  78. #78 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    August 23, 2012

    Beamup, are you going pedantic on me? :D Allright, I should have put a space or hyphen.

  79. #79 Denice Walter
    August 23, 2012

    @ Shay:

    I have also seen that in books; I think that the above may be my own father’s take on what my peripatetic grandfather ( who unfortunately died in the 1920s) liked. I also understand that he was particularly fond of blood ( black) sausages ( lord save me!) and duck. My father thought that duck was very awful so I was never treated to that. Until I discovered Peking duck on my own.

  80. #80 lilady
    August 23, 2012

    @ Denice, Shay and Science Mom: You don’t need to purchase a *panini grill* to press Croque Monsieur, Monte Cristo or ciabatta sandwiches…just use a large skillet (cast iron, my preference), with melted butter and a smaller skillet atop the sandwiches…weighted down with a brick.

    You do need to use rye bread with caraway seeds, to make a Reuben sandwich, with a side of a dill, not tarragon, pickle.

  81. #81 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    August 23, 2012

    @ Denice, Shay and Science Mom: You don’t need to purchase a *panini grill* to press Croque Monsieur, Monte Cristo or ciabatta sandwiches…just use a large skillet (cast iron, my preference), with melted butter and a smaller skillet atop the sandwiches…weighted down with a brick.

    Oh I know; that’s Alton Brown’s method sans building materials. Using a cast iron skillet and a brick would, well you can guess.

  82. #82 Narad
    August 23, 2012

    I see that the Pickle Front in the Battle of Estragon is being pursued vigorously. I have very little quarrel with dill pickles (unlike “bread and butter” pickles), but this is mainly because they don’t taste much like dill. I will go so far as to assert that a dill pickle spear should always and everywhere replace celery stalks in the Bloody Mary, with the celery being added as ground seed, as Nature intended.

  83. #83 Antaeus Feldspar
    August 23, 2012

    I have an AB 2109 blog that’s been infested with one antivax type who kind of sounds like Sid Offit (Bob Schecter). Here are the links

    http://californianssupportingab2109.blogspot.com/2012/07/listening-to-those-opposed-to-ab-2109_1342.html

    and

    http://californianssupportingab2109.blogspot.com/2012/07/call-to-action-contact-senate.html

    I left a comment yesterday and today it’s not there. Any explanation why?

  84. #84 lilady
    August 24, 2012

    Have you ever tasted Kummel Narad…this innocuous drink put me out for the count forty years ago in Germany.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCmmel

    We are in agreement about celery seeds in bloody Marys.

  85. #85 lilady
    August 24, 2012

    @ Antaeus Feldspar: I posted a number of times and I don’t believe any of my posts went away. I just went back to take a few whacks at Anonymous.

    Don’t even bother, Anon is the only jerk posting there and (s)he isn’t any challenge. (I didn’t think Anon was Offal…not his style…more like my own personal cyber stalking troll)

  86. #86 Alain (aka Autistic Lurker)
    August 24, 2012

    Oh jeez, it’s near 3am and I’m as hungry as Shrek…

    @Lilady, I didn’t taste Kummel but it look pretty much potent.

    Alain

  87. #87 herr doktor bimler
    August 24, 2012

    Kummel is way too sticky-sweet for me — a liqueur rather than a liquor. Only drinkable if mixed half-&-half with Danska 100.

  88. #88 Antaeus Feldspar
    August 24, 2012

    Well, Lilady, that was pretty much the essence of my post, that Anonymous was not going to convince anyone just acting like a foul-mouthed nutter, that no one would happen upon the conversation and say “wow, this guy is using swears and insults in every sentence; that MUST go along with being right!”

  89. #89 T.
    August 27, 2012

    I would love to get the vaccine, but here is free only for children and elderly :( sigh

  90. #90 Dana
    November 10, 2012

    If you’re not a fetus or a young child and you are getting enough selenium in your diet, of course the mercury in vaccines isn’t going to bother you, because your body will clear it. Even if you were exposed to a spill of a larger amount, you have the ability to make it go away and hopefully you won’t see much damage before that happens. (Results variable according to individual situation. Obviously if the spill’s big enough, it’ll probably kill you or permanently damage you, adult or not.)

    What irritates me about you people most of all is that you cannot allow for the patient’s right of consent. (Parents consent for their children too.) For some reason that mortally offends you. And all I can say is that if you believe vaccines work, and you’ve gotten your vaccine, then you’re covered and unvaccinated people shouldn’t be a threat to you.

    Usually by the time I’ve argued that, someone brings up their unvaccinated newborns being exposed to unvaccinated older children. Easy fix. Don’t let anyone else’s kids around your newborn til after they’ve had their shots.

    And no, you *can’t* save everyone else’s kids. I really wish people would learn to mind their own business over differences in opinion. Herd immunity, herd immunity, herd immunity, that’s all I ever hear. Well, start *trusting* in the herd immunity and let people make their own mistakes. Those kids can always get vaccinated later when they’re grown–how many times have we seen the children of an ideologue go in completely the opposite direction when they’re adults?

    By the way, I vaccinate. No fear there. But I won’t ever tell someone they *have* to get a shot. Not my place. And I’m so irritated at the vaccine-as-panacea crowd because I was going to let my daughter catch chickenpox and got bullied out of it by the doctor. More kids die every year from automobile accidents, *even when belted in properly,* than do from varicella. When are we banning cars, again?

  91. #91 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    November 11, 2012

    Dana, many people posting to this thread see the problem from a public health perspective. It is not enough to simply to have vaccines as a means of personal protection against disease. The more important goal is to reduce the overall incidence of disease within the population. Mass vaccination is the safest and most cost-effective means to do that for many diseases. Seen as a societal good instead of a personal protection, personal consent would have no more validity than personal consent in paying taxes.

    And while I recognize that chickenpox is typically a relatively mild disease that lasts a few days with no particular long term affects, why were you so willing to allow your children to catch a disease which at the very least will make them feel bad for several days and which carries risk? Is death the only long term effect of disease that concerns you? If so, why?

  92. #92 Antaeus Feldspar
    November 11, 2012

    Dana’s argument against the importance of herd immunity amounts to “I choose not to believe it” and “MY rights trump everything.” Sorry, Dana, but herd immunity IS an important part of what keeps us safe and alive, and your “right” to do as you damn please in every aspect of your life does not trump others’ right to not be exposed unnecessarily to danger. Frankly, your blithe assumption that between a newborn’s right to live and your right to prove a point, the latter is more important, is disgusting.

    And why is it that we aren’t banning cars anytime soon? Why, because unlike VPDs, they have benefits and not just dire consequences. Not that I’d expect someone who actually WANTED to give her daughter chickenpox to understand that.

  93. #93 lilady
    November 11, 2012

    “….. But I won’t ever tell someone they *have* to get a shot. Not my place. And I’m so irritated at the vaccine-as-panacea crowd because I was going to let my daughter catch chickenpox and got bullied out of it by the doctor. More kids die every year from automobile accidents, *even when belted in properly,* than do from varicella. When are we banning cars, again?”

    Really Dana…Why should we take your advice on any vaccine, when you are clueless about the seriousness of the complications of varicella…for your own child…and for children and adults your daughter infects?

    http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/about/complications.html

    Serious complications from chickenpox include

    dehydration
    pneumonia
    bleeding problems
    infection or inflammation of the brain (encephalitis, cerebellar ataxia)
    bacterial infections of the skin and soft tissues in children including Group A streptococcal infections
    blood stream infections (sepsis)
    toxic shock syndrome
    bone infections
    joint infections

    Some people with serious complications from chickenpox can become so sick that they need to be hospitalized. Chickenpox can also cause death.

    Some deaths from chickenpox continue to occur in healthy, unvaccinated children and adults. Many of the healthy adults who died from chickenpox contracted the disease from their unvaccinated children.

  94. #94 Narad
    November 11, 2012

    Easy fix. Don’t let anyone else’s kids around your newborn til after they’ve had their shots…. And I’m so irritated at the vaccine-as-panacea crowd because I was going to let my daughter catch chickenpox and got bullied out of it by the doctor.

    These two items together give me a rather strong whiff of the childhood-illness-is-special-mommy-bonding-time trope. The underlying goal is reinfantilization of the child.

  95. #95 Chris
    Neither here nor there...
    November 11, 2012

    Dana:

    If you’re not a fetus or a young child and you are getting enough selenium in your diet, of course the mercury in vaccines isn’t going to bother you, because your body will clear it.

    And of course, you will tell us exactly which vaccine on the American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal. Don’t include influenza because half of the ones approved for children do not have thimerosal.

    As far as chicken pox goes: only a cruel and sadistic person would have a child suffer almost two weeks covered in itchy open wounds that can let in a secondary bacterial infection. Then for a bonus, it sets that child up for a high chance of shingles later in life.

    And if the child is a baby, like my daughter was when she caught chicken pox from her brother: the chances of shingles are even higher, with a possibility to get it younger. She is in college now, and the stress could bring it on.

    I’d like to hear your solution to keeping your own older kids away from your newborn. Or do you think that all school age kids should be kept in the house for a year when there is an infant in the house? A year before the vaccine was available my younger son got chicken pox from preschool and gave it to his baby sister and older brother. The older brother’s school then had an outbreak of chicken pox.

    It was not happy fun parent/child bonding time.

  96. #96 Chris
    In the land of typos...
    November 11, 2012

    Urgh… only the first paragraph quoting Dana should be in italics.

  97. #97 Chemmomo
    West coasters: substitute "oak" for "ivy" below
    November 11, 2012

    Dana

    I was going to let my daughter catch chickenpox

    Would you send her out to play where there’s poison ivy, too? That makes about as much sense.

  98. #98 Darwy
    Røde grøde med fløde
    November 11, 2012

    Ugh. Deliberately exposing kids to disease is stupid.

    @Chemmomo I’m allergic to poison ivy, oak and sumac. Anytime I went out in the summer or early fall I’d come home with it – but then we were playing laser tag in the woods nearly every day. Despite being watchful of where I stepped, laid or whatnot, I always managed to be exposed.

    The memories alone bring back the taste of prednisone in my mouth. I hate that stuff.

  99. #99 Chemmomo
    Leaves of three, let them be
    November 11, 2012

    Darwy: they all contain the same family of compounds, urushiols, that cause the rashes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol
    So if you react to one of the plants you’re likely to react to all of them.

  100. #100 Edith Prickly
    November 11, 2012

    @Narad

    These two items together give me a rather strong whiff of the childhood-illness-is-special-mommy-bonding-time trope. The underlying goal is reinfantilization of the child.,

    Nicely put, that’s it exactly. And mommy gets the ego rush of being the all-powerful caregiver again, with the welfare of her child solely in her hands. Then she posts self-dramatizing twaddle on Internet sneering at people who prefer to protect children from illness in the first place.

  101. #101 Darwy
    Røde grøde med fløde
    November 11, 2012

    @Chemmomo

    Yep – let me tell you my mother tried everything.

    Toothpaste, baking soda, salt water baths, epsom salt baths, you name it. The only thing that got rid of it? Prednisone.

  102. #102 Shay
    speaking as someone who had the chickenpox and remembers it only too well
    November 11, 2012

    Dana, if you truly intended to let your child catch the chickenpox, you’re a rotten person.

  103. #103 herr doktor bimler
    November 11, 2012

    So if you react to one of the plants you’re likely to react to all of them.

    No mangos for Darwy!

  104. #104 flip
    November 13, 2012

    I wonder if the mommy warrior instinct also equates to “tough love” in terms of making kids suffer illnesses in order to toughen them up for the real world…

    I remember when I had chicken pox. My mother did everything to keep my sibling and I apart for fear that they would get it too – even though we both had the vaccine.

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