Respectful Insolence

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The Internet has produced a revolution with respect to information. Now, people anywhere, any time, can find almost any information that they want, as long as they have a connection to the global network and aren’t unfortunate enough to live in a country that heavily censors the Internet connections coming in. In addition, anyone any time can put his or her opinion out on the Internet and it might be read by people on the other side of the planet. For example, it continually amazes me that my blatherings here are read by people in Australia and New Zealand, as well as Europe and pretty much every other continent. Before the Internet, there was no way I would ever have achieved my current measure of minor celebrity status (and I do mean minor). Now, with enough good (I hope) writing and some links from some popular sources, and I can make my opinion known worldwide.

The dark side of this is that cranks can also make their opinions known worldwide, and, all too frequently, they are much better at it than skeptics are. For example, this very blog used a generic, vanilla WordPress template for the longest time, only updating it a few months ago. Meanwhile crank websites like NaturalNews.com are decked out in the latest, greatest web accoutrements, complete with video. One other problem with the democratization of information is that there now exist what I like to call “zombie memes.” In the world of quackery and pseudoscience, these are pseudoscientific claims on the Internet that never die, no matter how often they are refuted. Generally, such memes/claims pop up, make a fuss, are refuted, and then disappear. Then a few months (or even a year or two) later, something will happen to resurrect them. Maybe it’s a clueless mortician cremating the remains of such a zombie meme during a rainstorm and letting the vile chemical that resurrected the corpse of the meme in the first place permeate the soil of a graveyard of dead memes, resurrecting them all. Maybe it involved injecting a glowing fluid into the corpse of the meme. Who knows? Who cares that much? All I know is that these zombie memes keep popping up again and again as though they were new.

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Now that the World Wide Web (at least as we know it, in its graphically browsable form) is approaching its twentieth birthday, we now have enough perspective to see these things. Just three weeks ago, one such antivaccine meme popped up like a rotting Whac-A-Mole. Just this weekend, I noticed another of these zombie memes arising from the dead yet again to feast on the brains of the living and thus make them cranks too. This one popped up at that online repository of all things quackery, NaturalNews.com, in a post by Mike Adams himself entitled Merck vaccine developer admits vaccines routinely contain hidden cancer viruses derived from diseased monkeys. Other versions of this meme pop up from time to time with titles like CDC Admits 98 Million Americans Received Polio Vaccine In An 8-Year Span When It Was Contaminated With Cancer Virus.

Let’s dive in, shall we?

Maurice R. Hilleman is a little-known giant in the history of vaccines in the 20th century, having developed 36 vaccines, more than any other scientist in history, of which eight are still used today. So successful was he that he has been credited with saving more lives than any other medical scientist of the 20th century. Consequently, it’s rather strange to see his name be such a critical part of the first antivaccine zombie meme I’m going to discuss, which Mike Adams promoted just yesterday. As a companion piece on NaturalNewsTV, he has a video, with text superimposed that says, “All vaccines contain foreign DNA, RNA, and proteins that may prompt allergies and autoimmune diseases from bacteria, fungi, yeast, bovine fetal serum, monkey kidney tissues, toxic metals, mercury, and aluminum, MSG, and corpse preservatives formaldehyde and formalin.” One can’t help but chuckle and note that formalin is formaldehyde in a neutral buffered solution. They’re basically the same thing.

Be that as it may, let’s see what Adams claims, along with many other cranks:

If you haven’t yet realized the truth about how vaccines contain hidden cancer viruses, prepare yourself to be shocked by the admission you’re about to hear. Decades ago, one of the most prominent vaccine scientists in the history of the vaccine industry — a Merck scientist — made a recording where he openly admitted that vaccines given to Americans were contaminated with leukemia and cancer viruses.

In hearing this admission, his colleagues (who are also recorded here) break into laughter and seem to think it’s hilarious. They then suggest that because these vaccines are first tested in Russia, their side effects will help the U.S. win the Olympics because the Russian athletes will all be “loaded down with tumors.”

For the record, this is the same vaccine that was given to tens of millions of Americans and promoted by the government. To this day, people still carry these hidden cancer viruses which have proven to be a boon to the cancer industry.

One notes that this most recent article by Adams is close to a verbatim republication of an article from two years ago by Adams. It regurgitates a claim that SV40 that contaminated some early batches of the polio vaccine in the late 1950s were the cause of the “cancer epidemic.” Other variants of this claim are that the polio vaccine was responsible for creating AIDS. The first is a distortion and exaggeration; the second is even worse.

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Before I discuss the actual content of the interview, I must note that it was apparently found by a man named Leonard Horowitz, who is quoted on Whale.to as having said, “The greatest lie ever told is that vaccines are safe and effective.” On a Whale.to page devoted to Horowitz, we learn that Horowitz is a world class conspiracy theorist who has written articles like Big Pharma/Lancet Scam: Vaccine-Autism Link Denied (coauthored with Mike Adams himself!), Watchdog Groups Say Death Toll From Vaccines Amounts to “Genocide” Surgeon General’s Letter in USA Today Assailed, and Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola. Nature, Accident or Intentional? (a credulous interview with Gary Null). His website, Tetrahedron Publishing Group, is replete with similar articles and hawks colloidal silver as well, while his own website bills him as a “Humanitarian, Clinician, Prophet, Scholar and Natural Healer Advances Global Healing.” On his other website, American Red Double Cross, Horowitz attacks the Red Cross and bills himself thusly:

Dr. Len Horowitz, internationally known authority in public health and emerging diseases, and the nationally syndicated radio talk show host of “The Insight Hour,” delves into the darkest side of drug-based medicine, including the mass killing and poisoning of people for profit and politics.

This led me to The Insight Hour with Dr. Leonard Horowitz and Stacy Kane and an effort by him called LOVE528, which he represents as central to the “musical mathematical matrix of creation.” Horowitz even has a hallowed entry in the Encyclopedia of American Loons, which describes the full breadth of his woo, as does his Wikipedia entry. He’s also known for publishing an article in Medical Hypotheses entitled Polio, hepatitis B and AIDS: an integrative theory on a possible vaccine induced pandemic.

First of all, it would help to know when this interview was done. Obviously, it had to be before 2005, because that’s the year Hilleman died at the age of 85. I did a bit of Googling, and this footage is allegedly footage cut from a production by medical historian Dr. Edward Shorter done for PBS WGBH in Boston. I can’t find the video online, but there is a book by Shorter entitled The Health Century: A Companion to the PBS Television Series, which was published in 1987. So presumably this interview with Hilleman likely took place sometime in the year or two before that, which is informative in that it tells us that the conspiracy theory that the polio vaccine was the origin of AIDS is at least 25 years old. No wonder it keeps popping up again and again. The jokes about cancer causation by the vaccine indicate that, similarly, the idea that the early batches of polio vaccines were contaminated with SV40 were around in the 1980s. In any case, this found footage was taken by Horowitz and woven into a conspiracy magnum opus of a film entitled In Lies We Trust: The CIA, Hollywood and Bioterrorism. (The complete segment begins just after the 2 hour mark.)

In any case, this appears to be the “money quote” that the antivaccine movement likes to cite:

Dr Edward Shorter: Tell me how you found SV40 and the polio vaccine.

Dr Maurice Hilleman: Well, that was at Merck. Yeah, I came to Merck. And uh, I was going to develop vaccines. And we had wild viruses in those days. You remember the wild monkey kidney viruses and so forth? And I finally after 6 months gave up and said that you cannot develop vaccines with these damn monkeys, we’re finished and if I can’t do something I’m going to quit, I’m not going to try it. So I went down to see Bill Mann at the zoo in Washington DC and I told Bill Mann, I said “look, I got a problem and I don’t know what the hell to do.” Bill Mann is a real bright guy. I said that these lousy monkeys are picking it up while being stored in the airports in transit, loading, offloading. He said, very simply, you go ahead and get your monkeys out of West Africa and get the African Green, bring them into Madrid unload them there, there is no other traffic there for animals, fly them into Philadelphia and pick them up. Or fly them into New York and pick them up, right off the airplane. So we brought African Greens in and I didn’t know we were importing the AIDS virus at the time.

Miscellaneous background voices:…(laughter)… it was you who introduced the AIDS virus into the country. Now we know! (laughter) This is the real story! (laughter) What Merck won’t do to develop a vaccine! (laughter).

If you listen to the actual interview (at around 2:15 in), you’ll see that it’s very clear that Hilleman, obviously aware of the conspiracy theories claiming that the AIDS virus derived from the virus used to make the early polio vaccine, was making a joke and that the people in the room during the interview realized it was a joke. That’s why they laughed. They were laughing at the conspiracy theorists. Those claims were clearly floating around in the mid-1980s, right at the height of the AIDS epidemic, before there was much in the way of effective treatment. So this part of the interview was cut from the show. One wonders how much else was cut from the show, given that generally only fractions of total footage make it into any documentary. (Remember Dr. Jay Gordon whining about how his extensive interview had been cut altogether from the PBS documentary The Vaccine War?) In any case, Shorter, hardly “hiding” the footage, deposited it all in the National Library of Medicine, where it is available to all. That’s how Horowitz found it and decided that Hilleman making jokes was “evidence” that he really did “bring the AIDS virus to the US,” as this post claims.

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So what’s the real story? It is indeed true that back in the late 1950s, batches of polio vaccine were contaminated with a monkey virus known as SV40, which stands for “Simian Vacuolating Virus 40″ (hence Hilleman’s mention of that “damn vaculating agent that we have”) or “Simian Virus 40.” It was the 40th simian virus that Hilleman had discovered, hence the name. The polio vaccines developed by Jonas Salk and Albert Sabin in the 1950s were made by growing the polio virus in kidney cells derived from Asian rhesus monkeys (hence the reference to monkey kidney cells). Salk’s polio vaccine was a killed vaccine, in which the viral particles were inactivated with formaldehyde and the killed virus injected to produce an antibody response against the polio virus that could prevent infection with live polio virus. It contained very little SV40, because the formaldehyde also inactivated SV40. Sabin’s virus, on the other hand, was a live virus vaccine and was more heavily contaminated with SV40.

In 1959, a researcher at the National Institutes of Health named Bernice Eddy noticed that monkey kidney cells were dying without obvious cause. (Note that she was also a critical player in the Cutter incident, in which she discovered that the vaccines manufactured by Cutter Laboratories had live polio virus in them.) She made extracts of the cells and injected them under the skin of 23 newborn hamsters; within nine months 20 of them developed large tumors. Meanwhile, Hilleman and his collaborator Ben Sweet isolated the virus responsible and found SV40 was found in both the Sabin and Salk vaccines. It didn’t help that Eddy had brought her findings to Dr. Joseph Smadel, chief of the NIH’s biologics division, who made a huge mistake and dismissed the tumors as harmless “lumps.”

By 1961, there was significant concern among U.S. Public Health Service officials, as it has been found that as many as one-third of polio vaccines were tainted. As a result, although there was no evidence at the time that SV40 was harmful to humans, it was ordered that manufacturers find a way to eliminate SV40 from all future vaccines, which they promptly did. New procedures were developed to neutralize any SV40 and SV40-free African green monkeys were then used to produce the bulk of the vaccine instead of rhesus monkeys (hence Hilleman’s reference to green monkeys in his interview). Showing that no good deed goes unpunished, conspiracy theorists latched on to the African green monkeys as the vector through which the AIDS virus was brought into the U.S. via the new polio vaccines (hence Hilleman’s joke about “importing the AIDS virus”). These actions were all well and good, but the government didn’t recall the contaminated vaccine stocks and did not notify the public, because, as Hilleman later recounted, government officials were worried about a panic that might jeopardize the vaccine program. In any case, by 1963, SV40 had been eliminated from the nation’s polio vaccine stock. However, millions of people had received the vaccine.

But does SV40 cause cancer in humans? In a word, as far as we can tell, no.

Even early on, there were indications that this was unlikely. First of all, followup studies demonstrated that while injecting SV40 would produce tumors, ingesting it did not. Other studies showed that children receiving Sabin’s oral polio vaccine did not develop antibodies to SV40, as one would expect if they were being exposed. SV40 apparently passed through children’s GI tracts without ever causing an SV40 infection.

As the years went by, there were studies that reported finding SV40 in human tumor samples, which was obviously worrisome. The most prominent of these studies were by Michael Carbone at the NIH. In the late 1980s, he tested 48 human mesotheliomas and found SV40 by PCR in 28 of them. In 1990s, PCR “unleashed a wave of SV40” discoveries, including a variety of bone, brain, and hematopoietic malignancies, so much so that in 1997 the National Cancer Institute set up an SV40 working group, as described by ERV. The report stated:

In order to resolve why some laboratories detect traces of SV40 in mesothelioma while others do not, an International SV40 Working Group, which included the majority of laboratories studying SV40 in human tissues, was formed in 1997. Nine laboratories from the working group agreed to participate in a study, funded and organized by the National Cancer Institute (NCI). Each group was given 25 paired-duplicate samples of human mesotheliomas, a single set of 25 normal lung tissue samples, and positive and negative control samples. All the samples were blinded (labeled so that the human tumors and controls could not be distinguished) and each laboratory used its particular assay for detecting SV40, many of which had been used to detect SV40 previously. The results, published in the May 2001 issue of Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention (36), showed that none of the mesothelioma specimens was consistently positive for SV40.

That would be this paper.

For example, after Carbone had presented his evidence linking SV40 to mesothelioma, Howard Strickler, an epidemiologist at the NCI, and Joseph Fraumeni, director of NCI’s Division on Cancer Epidemiology and Genetics presented other evidence. For instance, PCR on 50 mesotheliomas from Armed Forces hospitals across the country found no SV40. Another study compared cancer rates in people born between 1947 and 1963, who were likely to have been exposed to contaminated polio vaccine, to people born after 1963, who were highly unlikely to have been exposed. There was no difference in cancer rates. This is a result that has held up, as studies performed eight years, fifteen years, and thirty years after SV40-contaminated vaccines had been given to children found that they had the same cancer incidence as groups not exposed to contaminated vaccine (for example, this study, this study, this study, and this study).

This story reminds me a bit of the Andrew Wakefield story in that these false positive results were most likely due to contamination with plasmid sequence. The SV40 and CMV promoters are very commonly used as a strong promoter to drive the expression of genes by plasmids, while the SV40 large T-antigen is commonly used to immortalize cell lines. Pretty much any molecular biology laboratory is likely to be swimming in contamination with SV40 and CMV sequences, much as the laboratory that was used to test Andrew Wakefield’s gut biopsy samples from autistic children was swimming in measles sequences. So very rigorous measures need to be taken if you’re going to look for these sequences to make sure the controls are all appropriate. As those of us who’ve ever done extensive PCR work know as well, even that isn’t always enough. Even the most careful scientist can occasionally be fooled by contamination problems when using PCR.

But what about the claim that the polio vaccine provided us not only with cancer-causing SV40 but with AIDS? This one is a lot easier to deal with because, unlike the SV40 fear mongering, which was built on a grain of truth, this particular myth is, as we say, right out:

In the 1990s, certain critics began to blame the testing of a live, weakened polio vaccine in Africa in the 1950s for the spread of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Those behind the accusation argued that chimpanzee cells were used to create the vaccine, and that those cells had been contaminated with a virus that sometimes affects chimps: simian immunodeficiency virus, or SIV. When the vaccine was given to children in Africa, they argued, SIV mutated to become human immunodeficiency virus, or HIV, which causes AIDS.

The accusations, however, were demonstrably false for a variety of reasons. Most notably, the weakened polio vaccine was not made with chimpanzee cells, but with monkey cells. The vaccine was later tested using a technique that can detect viral DNA (the PCR technique, or polymerase chain reaction); it did not contain SIV or HIV.

Researchers at the University of Birmingham in Alabama demonstrated in 2006 that while HIV was in fact a derivative of SIV, chimpanzees in Cameroon that had been infected with SIV in the 1930s were the most likely source of the AIDS epidemic—decades before the weakened polio vaccine was tested in Africa.

So wait a minute. Was it the switch to green monkeys in wake of the SV40 contamination problem or was it the testing of live attenuated polio virus in Africa that created the AIDS virus? I just can’t keep the stories straight.

Whatever the case, the SV40 conspiracy theory can easily be looked at as a case of no good deed going unpunished. After all, for all the castigation of the “sloppy science” that led to the polio vaccine by quacks and cranks, scientists back then used the best tools they had at the time, and quacks tend to fall into the trap of looking at those times through the lens of the scientific techniques that are available to us today. Scientists didn’t have PCR to look for sequences of contaminating viruses; that technique didn’t become widely available until more than 25 years later. Think of it this way: Watson and Crick’s original paper demonstrating the double helical structure of DNA was only published in 1953, which is around the time the polio vaccine was being developed, and Marshall Nirenberg didn’t publish his paper in which he “cracked the genetic code” until 1961. (I used the paper as part of a journal club-style class I taught for graduate students. It’s a really clever paper.)

In a way, it’s astounding to me that scientists could accomplish what they did then, that Eddy could detect the contaminating virus in 1959, and that Hilleman could identify it as a distinct virus in 1960. Even if the SV40 contaminating the Salk and Sabin polio vaccines really did cause cancer (and the evidence thus far is that it did not), the government moved pretty quickly to fix the problem. Sure, you can criticize the NCI for not taking Eddy’s results as seriously as they deserved or officials responsible for the vaccine program for not recalling the contaminated vaccines. Those are legitimate criticisms, but, even in spite of those missteps, in less than two years the contaminated polio vaccines were gone, which is a pretty impressive accomplishment. Then, over the next few decades, scientists did periodic studies to try to determine whether there had been any ill effects from the SV40 contamination, particularly in terms of an increased incidence of cancer in people who had received the contaminated vaccine. They failed to find any.

It’s time to move on, but we all know that the antivaccine cranks and quacks won’t, except temporarily. Once zombie memes are established, be they about vaccines, quackery, 9/11 conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, or involving other demonstrably bogus assertions, they are nigh-impossible to kill once and for all. Indeed, maybe “zombie” is the wrong word for them. After all, even in The Return of the Living Dead (in which they were the most indestructible), zombies could still be destroyed by reducing them to fine ash using a crematorium. (At least in The Walking Dead, all it takes to kill a zombie is a good head shot.) I rather suspect that antivaccine zombie memes would only be made stronger and more widely dispersed by such utter destruction. On second thought, that is a lot like the zombies in The Return of the Living Dead.

In any event, I fully expect that this particular meme will continue for the rest of my life, with the same few articles evolving only slightly, showing up periodically, being Tweeted all over the Internet, and spread all over Facebook, being refuted, and disappearing for a while, only to show up again later. Zombie memes never die. They always rise again. If readers of this post share it in response to seeing this particular zombie meme, perhaps this post can become a zombie meme too, but as a force for good. And I promise you that I will never, ever eat your brains.

Unless I’m really hungry, that is.

tarman

“Mooore braaains!”

Comments

  1. #1 Dangerous Bacon
    September 11, 2013

    As of a few years ago (and continuing now, I’m sure), there were a variety of YouTube videos with scary background music, all using that same outtake footage from the PBS-Maurice Hilleman interview where he and the interviewer/guests were joking about the AIDS-polio vaccine conspiracy nonsense.

    I even spent some time editing the Hilleman Wikipedia entry to clarify antivax scaremongering on this subject (as fast as the correction appeared, some dingbat would substitute the conspiracy garbage), until finally the Wikipedia editors got sick of the nonsense and deleted all references to the PBS interview.

    Not surprising it’s still a NaturalNews meme.

  2. #2 Denice Walter
    September 11, 2013

    As if zombification isn’t bad enough, how about re-cycled zombies?:

    today Mike Adams unveils two posts and each features videos that we’ve already cast aside and buried deep- one from AoA and one from the Canary Party ( which he refers to as a “growing movement”). He also lists ten “facts” about vaccines “they” don’t what you to know. ((shudder))

    AoA resurrects yet another meme about immunity and autism, courtesy of Teresa Conrick. Will she ever stop?

    TMR features a post ( yesterday) from Liam Scheff!!!!
    He was rather well received amongst the hiv/aids denialists.
    Has he abandoned one dying movement in order to latch onto one which appears to be rising from the grave? He has a website and appears on Robert Scott Bell’s show. He used to be on PRN with David Lewis.Or was it Celia Farber?

    Not to be outdone as an advocate for unlikely theories and anti-vax scaremongering, Gary Null will premiere a new film, “The Silent Epidemic”, tomorrow in NY, with a panel of “experts”, Humphries, Habakus and Holland.

    Why does writing about these groups’ activities and interrelationships betwixt and between them ( including the clone-like replications of groups and cross-breeding) cause me great discomfort and lead me to surmise that indeed, incest is NOT the best.

    What is causing this rise in zombified memes and incest? Solar flares?

  3. #3 Orac
    September 11, 2013

    I forgot to mention. The part where people are laughing about the AIDS conspiracy mongering is edited to loop back on itself several times to make it sound hysterical. It’s so hilariously obvious that one wonders how much contempt Horowitz has for his audience.

  4. #4 Denice Walter
    September 11, 2013

    ” I fully expect that this particular meme will continue for the rest of my life…” said Orac.

    Ideas like this often haunt my dreams:

    I predicted that AJW ( who is around my age and looks roaringly healthy) could be around for quite awhile, surrounded by fawning admirers as he ages gracefully, eventually becoming a *distinguished*-looking fraudster.

    Mercola is nearly 60; Adams is only in his EARLY forties. Null is in his late sixties BUT has been doing this for over 40 years! Most of the AoA/ TMR/ Canary contingent range from 40-60 but these folks will probably live forever because of their healthy, positive outlook and unnatural fear of environmental toxins. Then there’s Jake, armed with an MPH, a PhD and a load of money, he’ll be blathering on incessantly until 2065, at least.

    We should never forget that woo-meisters of the elder days ( prior to the internet) are revived and plagiarised constantly by their followers: the internet makes this so much easier. The source is ever overflowing with woo.

    But should we sceptics quake in our boots and dread the future?
    No, having a mission keeps you young. And we can perpetuate memes of our own that aren’t myths.

  5. #5 becky fisseux
    September 11, 2013

    @Denise – Rather scarily, Jake now actually has his Masters in Epidemiology… He’s blogged about it here:
    http://www.autisminvestigated.com/editor-of-autism-investigated-earns-mph-in-epidemiology/

    (Sorry if this is old news!)

    Bex

  6. #6 freethinker
    September 11, 2013

    “Amazingly, rather than giving us a new age of enlightenment, where information efficiently flows to the masses and an informed consensus can be achieved – Google (GOG) has actually polarized our nation because – no matter how asinine your opinion/interpretation of the facts may be – you can use Google to help you find thousands of other lunatics who agree with you and reinforce your wrong-headed beliefs.”

  7. #7 Krebiozen
    September 11, 2013

    Ah, Leonard Horowitz – another one of those many mercury-crazed dentists that inhabit Planet Woo. I remember several years ago, someone sent me his explanation of how HIV was created in a laboratory . A brief look uncovered a number of very fundamental errors and misunderstandings in what he had written about the various papers he quoted . For example someone had written that it was now theoretically now possible to create a virus in a laboratory; he cited this as prima facie evidence that not only had such a thing been done, but that HIV was the result.

  8. #8 Denice Walter
    September 11, 2013

    @ becky fisseux:

    Right. And I wonder how frequently he’ll embellish his name with those letters after it wheresoever he writes-

    ” Enclosed is payment for internet and phone service,
    Yours, Jake Crosby, MPH”

    “Could you please go out and pick me up a container of milk?
    Yours, Jake Crosby, MPH”.

    ” Thank you for the lovely gift, Mother,
    Sincerely, Jake Crosby, MPH.”

    @ Krebiozen:

    Before you know it, Janine Roberts may also be quoted.

  9. #9 dreamer
    September 11, 2013

    OT – but have to post this link to a groovy video which made me wonder if Orac was the dinner guest:
    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science_of_longevity/2013/09/tim_minchin_s_storm_critique_of_alternative_medicine_and_defense_of_reason.html

  10. #10 Shay
    September 11, 2013

    @Denice, I don’t want to label an entire profession, but since I started working in the US public health, I have noticed that almost EVERYBODY* puts their licenses or degrees on their business cards/ID tags. (MSN, MPH, LCPC, etc). It’s somewhat Teutonic, this fascination with credentials.

    *except me. None of my degrees/certificates are in anything remotely related to healthcare.

  11. #11 Denice Walter
    September 11, 2013

    @ Shay:

    Letters on a business card, ID tag or office door makes sense to inform clients/ patients…

    I doubt that Jake has anything remoting resembling that need-
    but I’ll venture a guess that he will add the letters whenever- by any stretch of the imagination- he can. ( Hint: until now he has always added the full complex subject area / university of his first degree).

    I’ve seen woo-meisters double their own by the form:
    Dr John Smith PhD, Dr Mary Jones MD.

    -btw- Although folks may think otherwise because of the ‘nym, there is absolutely nothing Teutonic about me that I can discern.

  12. #12 Denice Walter
    September 11, 2013

    MAKE sense…

    I’ve had a rough day dealing with sink pipe repair although the repairer was lovely and agreeable.
    Fortunately, I am only responsible for about 20 feet or else I’d have been here for days.

  13. #13 Lucario
    Not-so-sunny SoFla
    September 11, 2013

    Zombie meme? Sounds more like the Hydra – cut one head off, more pop up in its place.

  14. #14 Dangerous Bacon
    September 11, 2013

    “I don’t want to label an entire profession, but since I started working in the US public health, I have noticed that almost EVERYBODY* puts their licenses or degrees on their business cards/ID tags. (MSN, MPH, LCPC, etc). It’s somewhat Teutonic, this fascination with credentials.”

    It can also be costly.

    I was just rereading “The $64 Tomato”, and the author describes how a carpenter did a job for him and his wife (a family doctor) for a very reasonable price. When they called him later about another project, his bid was much, much higher than they were expecting. The only thing that had changed was they’d paid their first bill with a check from a new account that listed her name and “M.D.”

    Mistake.

  15. #15 herr doktor bimler
    September 11, 2013

    It’s somewhat Teutonic, this fascination with credentials.

    Härümph.

  16. #16 Kelly M Bray
    Sunny, sweaty, Southern California
    September 12, 2013

    Just a bit OT. The SBM Facebook page is being inundated with AV, Conspiranoids, and Morgellons loons. It could use a bit of help.

    https://www.facebook.com/ScienceBasedMed

  17. #17 Darwy
    Røde grøde med fløde
    September 12, 2013

    It never ceases to amaze me, the folks who will stamp their feet and scream about MERCURY! ALUMINUM! HEAVY METAL TOXINS!!! in their vaccines, but gladly toss back colloidal silver.

    I mean, besides causing argyria it bioaccumulates and causes ROS generation and oxidative damage to cells, a positive Ames test (modified for nanomaterials), they kill off ‘good’ gut flora just as well as the ‘bad’ – they can cause necrosis in brain tissue, etc – because by virtue of their size they’re able to diffuse past the BBB and the cell membrane of most every cell in the body.

    But it’s TOTALLY the vaccines…. TOTALLY.

  18. #18 Vasha
    September 12, 2013

    Remarkably something similar to that polio/AIDS story DID happen in domestic fowl, as a new study by Niewiadomska & Gifford shows: http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/08/27/amazing-story-mammal-virus-bird-one/

    The new class of bird diseases caused by REV viruses was intriduced to fowl by malaria research and spread by vaccination against Marek’s disease — read the article for the whole convoluted story.

    The difference is that Niewiadomska and Gifford carefully documented how it happened, whereas antivaccine conspiracy theorists have nothing. If anyone uses this to say triumphantly, “So, vaccines CAN spread diseases, they’re dangerous!!” Just say “Show that it IS happening, publish your work, and you’ll be heartily congratulated — but you better have evidence.” Note that the supposedly all-powerful vaccine-promoting cabal didn’t prevent the new study from appearing in a mainstream journal.

  19. #19 Old Rockin' Dave
    September 12, 2013

    The vaccine genocide is truly remarkable in the scope of its destructiveness. Over the last 60 years it has reduced the world population from a robust 2.5 billion all the way down to a tattered remnant of about 7 billion. I say it’s about time the full scope of this atrocity was revealed!

  20. #20 herr doktor bimler
    September 13, 2013

    The new class of bird diseases caused by REV viruses was intriduced to fowl by malaria research and spread by vaccination against Marek’s disease

    prn pointed out a similar case back in June, of a form of equine hepatitis, first noticed when the virus was occasionally spread as a contaminant when vaccinating horses against botulism.

  21. #21 Ben Steigmann
    September 27, 2013

    First I would like to thank you for writing this. Without that, I would have not had the impetus to assemble together the resources to challenge it. If you hadn’t put all this information here, it would have still circulated as a standard narrative, only, I would have been unaware of the full scope of the arguments informing this narrative.

    With that said, this article is replete with poisoning the well fallacies, appeal to ridicule, and an implicit combination of appeal to authority and appeal to popularity, showing sophisty. It also contains strawman fallacies. Uses of terms like “conspiracy theorist” show reliance on thought stopping cliches, and the desire to create an atmosphere of intellectual communism where dissenters are ridiculed at best or viciously attacked at worst*. I will now refute it with several points:

    Much of the approved narrative concerning the origin of AIDS is refuted in the abstract of PMID 15525322, “AIDS as a zoonosis? Confusion over the origin of the virus and the origin of the epidemics.”, which states: “Based on findings demonstrating the simian ancestry of HIV, AIDS has been reported to be a zoonosis. However, this theory has never been proved and must seriously be questioned. Several arguments show that HIV-AIDS is not a zoonosis. (i) If AIDS were a zoonosis, there must be evidence of AIDS being directly acquired from an animal species, as is rabies, a disease that is directly acquired from animals. (ii) Despite long-term and frequent human exposure to SIV-infected monkeys in Africa, only 11 cross-species transmission events are known, and only four of these have resulted in significant human-to-human transmission, generating HIV-1 groups M and O and HIV-2 groups A and B. The closest relatives of SIVcpz (HIV-1 group N) and of SIVsm (HIV-2 groups C-H) are extremely rare, with only six HIV-1 group N-infected patients and only single individuals known to be infected by HIV-2 groups C-H. SIV, while capable of cross-species transmission, is thus poorly adapted for disease and epidemic spread. If AIDS were a zoonosis that is capable of significant human-to-human spread, there would be a plethora of founder subtypes and groups. (iii) Human exposure to SIV is thousands of years old, but AIDS emerged only in the 20th century. If AIDS were a zoonosis that spread into the human population, it would have spread to the West during slave trade. (iv) Experimental transmission of SIVs to different species of monkeys is often well controlled by the new host, showing that the virus and not the disease is transmitted. Therefore, we conclude that cross-species transmission of SIV does not in itself constitute the basis for a zoonosis. Transmission per se is not the major requirement for the generation of the AIDS epidemic. All HIVs do derive from simian species, but AIDS does not qualify as a zoonosis and this explanation cannot in itself account for the origin of AIDS epidemic. It is important to distinguish AIDS from true zoonoses (e.g. rabies) because research is needed to understand the processes by which animal viruses cause sustained human-to-human transmission, epidemics and even pandemics. Much is known about emerging viruses, but almost nothing is known about emerging viral diseases.”: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15525322

    Contamination of the Polio vaccine has been linked to AIDS, not by some “crank” or “fringe nut” (more logical fallacies are at play with that choice of words to dismiss somebody), but by the CBC investigative report “Witness”, which looks at the historical controversy surrounding this issue, and, towards some end, still raises some frightening issues (in this case, particular attention is given to the Koprowski vaccine): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZs1V8mpcoY

    However, the thesis of Leonard Horowitz, not mentioned, actually has more explanatory power, and in his case, it is important to look at whatever information he presents, not use appeal to ridicule because of his Christian New Age religious views, or figure out some other poisoning the well fallacy to use against him. Advocacy of colloidal silver is not a reason to justify ridicule. There may be contraindications, but it is not pure quackery: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/substance/colloidal-silver

    The word “mercury dentist” has been mentioned derisively. To see why this does also not deserve appeal to ridicule, see the article “Mercury toxicity presenting as chronic fatigue, memory impairment and depression: diagnosis, treatment, susceptibility, and outcomes in a New Zealand general practice setting (1994-2006).”, the abstract of which states, “In a group of 465 patients diagnosed as having chronic mercury toxicity (CMT), 32.3% had severe fatigue, 88.8% had memory loss, and 27.5% had depression. A significant correlation was found between CMT and the Apo-lipoprotein E4 genotype (p=0.001). An investigation into an additional 864 consecutively seen general practice patients, resulted in 30.3% having evidence consistent with CMT, and once again a significant correlation was found with the APO-E4 genotype (p=0.001). Removal of amalgam mercury fillings when combined with appropriate treatment resulted in a significant symptom reduction (p100 million people in the United States and many more worldwide received potentially contaminated vaccines prepared during the years 1954 to 1961 ( 2).”
    The problem with the study is noted in this article. It noted that the study was essentially 2 studies, and that: http://www.sv40foundation.org/SV40-from-PV.html
    “One study purportedly examined the “current or recent seed lots of all three poliovirus serotypes from Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Indonesia, Iran, Japan, Mexico, United Kingdom, United States, EEVM, Vietnam, and the former Yugoslavia as well as WHO seed viruses.” These seed lots were “tested at the NIBSC.” The NIBSC is the United Kingdom’s National Institute for Biological Standards and Control which has many of the same responsibilities as the National Institute of Health and the FDA in the United States.
    According to the study, “The samples tested consistently negative, except that the EEVM vaccine produced positive PCR signals…” EEVM is a manufacturer in Eastern Europe whose OPV was “widely used in many countries, including the USSR, the countries of eastern Europe, Asia, and Africa.”
    So, here we have the major health authority in the U.K. saying that all polio vaccine manufacturers they tested were free of SV40 except for one in Eastern Europe that supplied vaccines to many countries other than Western Europe and the U.S. This, of course, is a very convenient result.
    How thorough was this testing? Here’s what we do not know:
    -The methodology is referred to from a previous paper, but that methodology does not even include a test to determine whether the vaccine they were testing was polio vaccine. So we do not know what they were testing.
    -They state that they tested the “current or recent seed lots…” What does that mean? Did they test actual seeds (the parent material) or working seeds (the progeny)? How much did they test? How many milliliters? Was it statistically valid and if so where is the statistical analysis?
    -They state that they tested “all three poliovirus serotypes from Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Indonesia, Iran, Japan, Mexico, United Kingdom, United States, EEVM, Vietnam, and the former Yugoslavia as well as WHO seed viruses…” They don’t say which manufacturers they tested. They don’t say what materials they tested. They don’t say how much they tested.
    If first year graduate student was to write-up a study like this no doubt they would get an “F.” But, this is the quality of the work that a major governmental body uses when it comes to SV40 and vaccines. The result in this paper is that the spread of SV40 is blamed on a major eastern European vaccine manufacturer whose vaccine did not come into the U.S. or U.K., and other vaccine manufacturers such as those in the U.S. and U.K. are off the hook.
    As bad as this first study is, the second one is good. After the NIBSC found SV40 in the vaccines from the major eastern European vaccine manufacturer they shipped it off to independent labs, including Dr. Carbone at Loyola University in Chicago. There, Dr. Carbone’s group put the EEVM positive samples through a battery of tests including PCR, transfection, and direct infection of susceptible cell cultures. His analysis confirmed the presence of SV40 and even identified the strains. In discussing one of the strains, Dr. Carbone wrote, “The other strain that we detected, CPC-MEN, was originally isolated in 1984 from a human brain tumor in a German patient. The same virus was independently isolated from a brain tumor of a U.S. patient in 1995.” Here, there is evidence that a specific type of SV40 from the polio vaccine was found in human brain tumors in Europe and the U.S.
    This is important information. The larger question, however, is why didn’t the NIBSC send all of its samples from “current or recent seed lots” of all three poliovirus serotypes from Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Indonesia, Iran, Japan, Mexico, United Kingdom, United States, Vietnam, the former Yugoslavia and the World Health Organization to Carbone and other labs for independent analysis and confirmation? The answer to this question is telling.
    This is the current status of studies on this question. Government laboratories and labs tied to vaccine manufacturers or government funding report that they tested various polio vaccines for SV40 and for the major western manufacturers everything is okay. These governmental sponsored studies, however, never allow their results to be independently verified as required by the scientific method.”
    The article also notes: “In December 1999, one of the leading SV40 scientists Michele Carbone, Ph.D., M.D., tested contaminated polio vaccines from 1955 and found that the vaccines contained more than one strain of SV40. The new strain he detected was slow-growing and would take at least nineteen days to appear in cell culture, five days past the federally mandated 14-day observation period. Dr. Carbone and his colleagues wrote that his study suggested that any slow-growing SV40 present in the vaccine would have gone undetected. The scientists also wrote, “they were surprised to learn” that more sophisticated techniques were not used to screen polio vaccines for SV40. (Paola Rizzo et al., Unique Strains of SV40 in Commercial Poliovaccines from 1955 Not Readily Identifiable with Current Testing for SV40 Infection, 59 CANCER RES. 6103, 6103–08 (1999))”

    – There are other articles, like “Identification of the oncogenic substance in rhesus monkey kidney cell culture as simian virus 40.”: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13889129
    – and (this is an important one) “Specific antibodies reacting with simian virus 40 capsid protein mimotopes in serum samples from healthy blood donors.”, the abstract of which has some interesting points. It notes: “Simian virus 40 (SV40), a small DNA tumor virus, was inadvertently administered to human populations with the use of contaminated vaccines. SV40 sequences have mainly been detected in healthy individuals and cancer patients using polymerase chain reaction techniques. However, some studies have failed to reveal the presence of SV40 in human specimens. These conflicting results indicate the need for new research to verify whether SV40 is circulating in humans. Mimotopes from SV40 structural peptides were tested to investigate for specific reactions to human sera antibodies. An indirect enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay with synthetic peptides from SV40 viral capsid proteins 1-2-3 (VPs 1-2-3) was set up and employed to test 855 serum samples from healthy blood donors. Data from immunologic assays indicate that serum antibodies against SV40 VP mimotopes are detectable, although with a low titer, in blood donors 18 to 65 years old. The overall prevalence of serum samples that reacted with the 2 SV40 VP peptides was 18%. The strong points for this novel method include the simplicity of its approach and the potential to discriminate between SV40-specific antibody responses and to draw correlations between responses to the 2 independent SV40 peptides. These data suggest that SV40, or a yet undetected closely related polyomavirus, is circulating in human populations, but with lower prevalence than that of the ubiquitous BK and JC human polyomaviruses.”: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22387152/

    You mention that SV-40 was associated with cancers, but gave an dismissal of the causative connection. Let’s look at some of the evidence, first association. Start with PMID
    12798456, “Simian virus 40 in human cancers”, which concludes: “These results establish that SV40 is associated significantly with brain tumors, bone cancers, malignant mesothelioma, and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. Studies are needed to assess current prevalence of SV40 infections.”: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12798456/

    Further research, looking at the footnotes of some of the studies mentioned, will reveal other important items, like “Simian virus 40, poliovaccines and human tumors: a review of recent developments.”, which notes, at the beginning of the abstract, “Recently, wild-type SV40 and/or DNA sequences indistinguishable from SV40 have been detected in specific types of human tumors: ependymoma and choroid plexus tumors, mesothelioma, osteosarcoma and sarcoma. The same tumor types will develop in hamsters after injection with SV40.”: http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v15/n16/abs/1201375a.html

    Also of relevance is PMID 15172980,”Presence of simian virus 40 DNA sequences in human lymphoid and hematopoietic malignancies and their relationship to aberrant promoter methylation of multiple genes.” which states, in the abstract: “The simian polyoma virus SV40 has been detected in specific human tumors including non-Hodgkin’s lymphomas, although a causative role for the virus has not been convincingly demonstrated. Aberrant methylation of CpG islands in promoter regions is a frequent method of silencing tumor suppressor genes (TSGs) in cancers and may be induced by oncogenic viruses. We investigated the relationship between the presence of SV40 or EBV DNA sequences and the methylation profiles for 10 TSGs in 90 cases of non-Hodgkin’s lymphomas/leukemias and 56 control tissues. SV40 sequences were present in 33/90 (37%) non-Hodgkin’s lymphomas/leukemias, and EBV was present in 11/42 (26%) of non-Hodgkin’s lymphomas. We found a highly significant correlation between the presence of SV40 and methylation of seven genes (P values, 0.006 to <0.0001). In lymphomas, there was no relationship between EBV and methylation. Oncogenic viruses and methylation were rarely present in control tissues. We investigated methylation of the same 10 TSGs in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) from a healthy volunteer infected with EBV or EBV and SV40. Promoter methylation of CDH1 and CDH13 were noted in dual SV40- and EBV-infected PBMC, and these two genes were also highly significantly correlated to the presence of SV40 sequences in tumors. SV40 infection also resulted in appearance of the lymphoma/leukemia-specific marker, methylated SHP1. Methylation was completely absent in uninfected and EBV-infected PBMC. Our results demonstrate that the presence of SV40 in hematological malignancies is associated with promoter methylation of TSGs and that in all probability, the virus plays a role in tumor pathogenesis.": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15172980

    The following article notes: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cdc-disappears’-page-linking-polio-vaccines-cancer-causing-viruses1
    "SV-40 has a well-known mechanism of carcinogenicity. This virus suppresses the transcriptional properties of the tumor-suppressing p53 protein in humans [this mechanism of action is verified in the abstract of this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15015494/, a gene product that has been described as "the guardian of the genome" because of its critical role in preventing genome instability and cancer initiation.[1]When p53 is disabled, programmed cell death (apoptosis) and cell cycle arrest is rendered dysfunctional, leading to uncontrolled (immortalized) cell proliferation, and tumor formation. Animal research provides experimental confirmation for the tumor-forming properties of SV40,[2] which lends support to viewing the presence of SV40 in various human tumors as a causal connection and not a merely coincidental correlation.[3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9][10] [11] [12]

    Also, the CDC's claim that SV40 has not been proven "a cause" is disingenuous, as no cancer can be considered to be a result of a singular cause. SV40 is a well-known cofactor in the pathogenesis of some tumors,[13] [14] and therefore should not be dismissed or minimized to the point of being perceived irrelevant."

    Perhaps the most important article is PMID 10472327 – "Cancer risk associated with simian virus 40 contaminated polio vaccine.": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10472327/
    I will now excerpt from the entire abstract, as it really sums everything up:
    "Abstract
    BACKGROUND: The presence of SV40 in monkey cell cultures used in the preparation of the polio vaccine from 1955 through 1961 is well documented. Investigations have consistently demonstrated the oncogenic behavior of SV40 in animal models. Early epidemiologic studies were inadequate in demonstrating an increase in cancer incidence associated with contaminated vaccine. Recently, investigators have provided persuasive evidence that SV40 is present in human ependymomas, choroid plexus tumors, bone tumors, and mesotheliomas, however, the etiologic role of the virus in tumorigenesis has not been established.
    MATERIALS AND METHODS: Using data from SEER, we analyzed the incidence of brain tumors, bone tumors, and mesotheliomas from 1973-1993 and the possible relationship of these tumors with the administration of the SV40 contaminated vaccine.
    RESULTS: Our analysis indicates increased rates of ependymomas (37%), osteogenic sarcomas (26%), other bone tumors (34%) and mesothelioma (90%) among those in the exposed as compared to the unexposed birth cohort.
    CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that there may be an increased incidence of certain cancers among the 98 million persons exposed to contaminated polio vaccine in the U.S.; further investigations are clearly justified."

    You also overlook the key part of the Maurice Hilleman interviews, where he sickeningly jokes about Russians and tumors, and notes that in the Salk vaccine, SV-40 wasn't really inactivated.

    *Regarding "conspiracy theories", with vaccines, "conspiracy theories" or "allegations of corruption" do not deserve appeal to ridicule when you consider the following:
    Dr. Lucija Tomljenovic noted in a recent paper that "Deliberately concealing information from parents for the sole purpose of getting them to comply with an “official” vaccination schedule could be considered as a form of ethical violation or misconduct. Official documents obtained from the UK Department of Health (DH) and the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) reveal that the British health authorities have been engaging in such practice for the last 30 years, apparently for the sole purpose of protecting the national vaccination program." and "Here I present the documentation which appears to show that the JCVI made continuous efforts to withhold critical data on severe adverse reactions and contraindications to vaccinations to both parents and health practitioners in order to reach overall vaccination rates which they deemed were necessary for “herd immunity”, a concept which with regards to vaccination, and contrary to prevalent beliefs, does not rest on solid scientific evidence as will be explained. As a result of such vaccination policy promoted by the JCVI and the DH, many children have been vaccinated without their parents being disclosed the critical information about demonstrated risks of serious adverse reactions, one that the JCVI appeared to have been fully aware of. It would also appear that, by withholding this information, the JCVI/DH neglected the right of individuals to make an informed consent concerning vaccination. By doing so, the JCVI/DH may have violated not only International Guidelines for Medical Ethics." and "The transcripts of the JCVI meetings also show that some of the Committee members had extensive ties to pharmaceutical companies and that the JCVI frequently co-operated with vaccine manufacturers on strategies aimed at boosting vaccine uptake. Some of the meetings at which such controversial items were discussed were not intended to be publicly available, as the transcripts were only released later, through the Freedom of Information Act (FOI). These particular meetings are denoted in the transcripts as “commercial in confidence”, and reveal a clear and disturbing lack of transparency, as some of the information was removed from the text (i.e., the names of the participants) prior to transcript release under the FOI section at the JCVI website.": http://www.ecomed.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/3-tomljenovic.pdf – see more here: http://www.ecomed.org.uk/publications/the-health-hazards-of-disease-prevention also of interest is the article in the journal "Inorganic Biochemistry" entitled "Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?": http://omsj.org/reports/tomljenovic%202011.pdf

    See, also (related to the initial post) some interesting relations with autism and SV-40 prevalence in the article "Association of autism with polyomavirus infection in postmortem brains.", which states, "BKV, JCV, and SV40 combined are significantly more frequent among autistic patients compared to controls (67% versus 23%, respectively; P < .05)": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20345322

    See also the article, "Hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and autism diagnosis, NHIS 1997-2002.", which states, " Findings suggest that U.S. male neonates vaccinated with the hepatitis B vaccine prior to 1999 (from vaccination record) had a threefold higher risk for parental report of autism diagnosis compared to boys not vaccinated as neonates during that same time period. Nonwhite boys bore a greater risk.": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170

    See also, "A positive association found between autism prevalence and childhood vaccination uptake across the U.S. population.", the abstract of which states, "Although individuals probably have a genetic predisposition to develop autism, researchers suspect that one or more environmental triggers are also needed. One of those triggers might be the battery of vaccinations that young children receive. Using regression analysis and controlling for family income and ethnicity, the relationship between the proportion of children who received the recommended vaccines by age 2 years and the prevalence of autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI) in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2007 was determined. A positive and statistically significant relationship was found: The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT or SLI. A 1% increase in vaccination was associated with an additional 680 children having AUT or SLI.": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535

    See also "Serological Association of Measles Virus and Human Herpesvirus-6 with Brain Autoantibodies in Autism". The authors of the study note: "As described here, the overall levels of measles antibody and HHV-6 antibody were not significantly elevated in autistic children but a high proportion (85%) of them had positive measles antibody titers. This was an excellent rate of seroconversion post-MMR immunization since virtually all subjects in the study had their MMR immunizations and none had any history of wild-type measles virus infection.":
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0090122998945883

    Other relevant commentary comes from "Phenotypic expression of autoimmune autistic disorder (AAD): a major subset of autism." – from the abstract, we find that "Many autistic children harbored brain myelin basic protein autoantibodies and elevated levels of antibodies to measles virus and measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine.": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19758536

    See also "Abnormal measles-mumps-rubella antibodies and CNS autoimmunity in children with autism.": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534

    Thus the association of all of this with Wakefield, and the ensuing attack, is a strawman, as evidence persists in spite of him. much corroborating research has confirmed the sentiment of Andrew Wakefield – some has been given, but the following, of interest, is further corroboration, offering more studies. This is from an "alternative media" website, but the documentation is valid nonetheless: http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2013/06/21/new-published-study-verifies-andrew-wakefields-research-on-autism-again-mmr-vaccine-causes-autism/

    Remember, regardless of poisoning the well fallacies, what matters, in the end, is if the post has good documentation. In that vein, here is another, that touches on some issues you brought up, that is of interest: http://skepticdenialism.blogspot.com/2011/12/evidence-1.html

    And all of this is really such a tragedy when you compare all of this to the article “The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with Vitamin C” (Southern Medicine & Surgery, Volume 111, Number 7, July, 1949, pp. 209-214): web.archive.org/web/20120211074211/http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/194x/klenner-fr-southern_med_surg-1949-v111-n7-p209.htm

    The commentary in it is relevant:
    “In the poliomyelitis epidemic in North Carolina in 1948, 60 cases of this disease came under our care. These patients presented all or almost all of these signs and symptoms: Fever of 101 to 104.6�, headache, pain at the back of the eyes, conjunctivitis, scarlet throat; pain between the shoulders, the back of the neck, one or more extremity, the lumbar back; nausea, vomiting and constipation. In 15 of these cases the diagnosis was confirmed by lumbar puncture; the cell count ranging from 33 to 125. Eight had been in contact with a proven case; two of this group received spinal taps. Examination of the spinal fluid was not carried out in others for the reasons: (1) Flexner and Amoss had warned that “simple lumbar puncture attended with even very slight hemorrhage opens the way for the passage of the virus from the blood into the central nervous system and thus promotes infection.” (2) A patient presenting all or almost all of the above signs and symptoms during an epidemic of poliomyelitis must be considered infected with this virus. (3) Routine lumbar puncture would have made it obligatory to report each case as diagnosed to the health authorities. This would have deprived myself of valuable clinical material and the patients of most valuable therapy, since they would have been removed to a receiving center in a nearby town.

    The treatment employed was vitamin C in massive doses. It was given like any other antibiotic every two to four hours. The initial dose was 1000 to 2000 mg., depending on age. Children up to four years received the injections intramuscularly. Since laboratory facilitates for whole blood and urine determinations of the concentration of vitamin C were not available, the temperature curve was adopted as the guide for additional medication. The rectal temperature was recorded every two hours. No temperature response after the second hour was taken to indicate the second 1000 or 2000 mg. If there was a drop in fever after two hours, two more hours was allowed before the second dose. This schedule was followed for 24 hours. After this time the fever was consistently down, so the drug was given 1000 to 2000 mg. every six hours for the next 48 hours. All patients were clinically well after 72 hours. After three patients had a relapse the drug was continued for at least 48 hours longer — 1000 to 2000 mg. every eight to 12 hours. Where spinal taps were performed, it was the rule to find a reversion of the fluid to normal after the second day of treatment.

    For patients treated in the home the dose schedule was 2000 mg. by needle every six hours, supplemented by 1000 to 2000 mg. every two hours by mouth. The tablet was crushed and dissolved in fruit juice. All of the natural “C” in fruit juice is taken up by the body; this made us expect catalytic action from this medium. Rutin, 20 mg., was used with vitamin C by mouth in a few cases, instead of the fruit juice. Hawley and others have shown that vitamin C taken by mouth will show its peak of excretion in the urine in from four to six hours. Intravenous administration produces this peak in from one to three hours. By this route, however, the concentration in the blood is raised so suddenly that a transitory overflow into the urine results before the tissues are saturated. Some authorities suggest that the subcutaneous method is the most conservative in terms of vitamin C loss, but this factor is overwhelmingly neutralized by the factor of pain inflicted.

    Two patients in this series of 60 regurgitated fluid through the nose. This was interpreted as representing the dangerous bulbar type. For a patient in this category postural drainage, oxygen administration, in some cases tracheotomy, needs to be instituted, until the vitamin C has had sufficient time to work — in our experience 36 hours. Failure to recognize this factor might sacrifice the chance of recovery. With these precautions taken, every patient of this series recovered uneventfully within three to five days.”

  22. #22 Orac
    September 28, 2013

    Wow. That’s a heapin’ helpin’ of information, misinformation, and nonsense (the vitamin C part and supporting pretty much anything Horwotiz says). Too much to take the time to refute in the comments. Maybe if I’m feeling real energetic, I’ll use it as the basis of a blog post sometime.

  23. #23 lilady
    September 28, 2013

    Mr. Steigmann: Let’s just say it’s not ready for prime time.

    http://archive.org/details/HorrorOfVaccinationExposed

  24. #24 TBruce
    September 28, 2013

    Shorter version of Steigmann:

    Baaaaaarrrrrrrfffffffff!!!

    Get out the mops and pails.

  25. #25 Khani
    September 28, 2013

    “Advocacy of colloidal silver is not a reason to justify ridicule.” It certainly is a reason to justify horror, as well as intense questioning of any other medical statement the advocate makes, as Rosemary Jacobs could attest.

  26. #26 Antaeus Feldspar
    September 28, 2013

    tl;dr of Steigman @ 21:

    “I don’t like the fact that the ‘experts’ I have chosen to believe are not accepted as credible; therefore I’ll pretend that for you to point out the reasons they are not credible is somehow improper on your part.”

    “Poisoning the well” is just a special case of argumentum ad hominem. If you are offering an argument in the form “The scientific consensus is X, but Dr. Horowitz says Y; therefore the scientific consensus is wrong and Dr. Horowitz is right”, then it’s fully legitimate to offer information which relates to whether your enthymeme “Dr. Horowitz did his research better and more accurately than any other scientist who came to a differing conclusion” is actually correct (if it isn’t, your argument falls apart.)

    As it happens, Dr. Horowitz believes that sound is electromagnetic, which is something a fifth-grader who’s paid attention in science class knows to be incorrect. Dr. Horowitz believes that the Rockefellers were responsible for 440 Hz being established as the tuning for the musical note A, because somehow that has mind-control effects on the population, which would be avoided, it seems, at 444 Hz (Horowitz’s preferred value). It’s not poisoning the well to bring these things up; you brought the question of whether Horowitz believes ridiculous crap onto the table when you said ‘we should all believe this is true; why? because a guy named Dr. Leonard Horowitz does.’

  27. #27 Shay
    September 28, 2013

    “Advocacy of colloidal silver is not a reason to justify ridicule.”

    Like hell it’s not.

  28. #28 herr doktor bimler
    September 28, 2013

    Advocacy of colloidal silver is not a reason to justify ridicule

    How about NASA-brand colloidal silver and Hawaiian Holy Water and Holy Harmony Perfect Circle of Sound Tuning Forks? And

    a diplomatic officer for the World Organization for Natural Medicine, as a representative of God, knighted in the Sovereign Orthodox Order of Knights Hospitaller of St John of Jerusalem, as a Levitical priest in the bloodlines of Moses and Yeshua the Messiah

    ?
    Does that pass the Ridicule Threshold?

  29. #29 Ben Steigmann
    September 29, 2013

    I will attempt to respond to various points that have been raised here in a few days. That archive.org item was written in a period a while ago when I was far more glib, and far less assiduous than I currently am. I did not, however, provide it here as a point of argumentation. Because of the non-rigorous nature of it (it is essentially a collection of other items on the internet that I just put there and hadn’t fully processed, nor pitted against oppositional views), I have redacted that article, and will put up a different article after I am satisfied of having digested the best arguments of both sides of the issue – which will be at least many months and a few hundred dollars away from now. For now, I stand behind those points that I previously did – like the study “Cancer risk associated with simian virus 40 contaminated polio vaccine.”: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10472327/

  30. #30 Chris,
    September 29, 2013

    Mr. Steigmann, there has been more recent research that you should become more familiar with, it is discussed here:
    http://www.virology.ws/2010/04/13/poliovirus-vaccine-sv40-and-human-cancer/

  31. #31 herr doktor bimler
    September 29, 2013

    Ben Steigmann cites a 1949 study of treating suspected polio cases with vitamin C. “Suspected” because the author did not apply what was then the definitive test to 3/4 of the patients (i.e. looking for elevated white-blood-cell counts in their CSF). Klenner’s reasons for not checking whether his cures actually had polio are interesting:

    lumbar puncture would have made it obligatory to report each case as diagnosed to the health authorities. This would have deprived myself of valuable clinical material

    Wikipedia informs us that Klenner’s “work was not well received”. Hard to imagine, I know.

  32. #32 lilady
    September 29, 2013

    Ben Steigmann, if you finally revise your “Horrors of Vaccination Exposed” website, may I suggest you consult with the respected and revered vaccine experts Alex Jones and Dr. Rebecca Carley?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8OwwDP-Xkg&list=PL8B1D44753D3804BF&index=1

  33. #33 AdamG
    September 29, 2013

    Mr. Steigmann, may I inquire how you were able to read the Fisher article? I’d like to read it myself, I’m specifically interested in their methodology, but I can’t seem to find a PDF version. You have read it, right?

  34. #34 Ben Steigmann
    September 30, 2013

    I was unable to find an electronic copy. I posted it because it seemed to be a study that is consistent and makes sense of the other information presented, a keystone. If somebody has access to it and can provide it, that may be useful. I can understand the interest because it challenges the standard narrative. I too would like to have an electronic copy of this. As it stands, what I presented is my evidence base for my theory on this. It appears to be a coherent buttressing for an alternative narrative. However, it was garnered by accumulating abstracts.
    I will attempt to controvert the dismissal of vitamin C in the near future, as I believe that in that area, I may have come across information that others have overlooked, with regards to infectious diseases. I will attempt to excerpt from the body of the text as is appropriate, and provide the full text to the greatest extent possible, so as to make my information independently verifiable.

  35. #35 Julian Frost
    September 30, 2013

    @Ben Steigmann:

    I can understand the interest because it challenges the standard narrative.

    So does the geocentric model. So does the “Terrain of the Body” hypothesis. Both are wrong. “Challenging the Standard Narrative” is not good enough.

    I will attempt to controvert the dismissal of vitamin C in the near future.

    Other’s have said they will bring evidence later, only to never come back.

  36. #36 herr doktor bimler
    September 30, 2013

    the “Terrain of the Body” hypothesis

    My immediate thought was of Joe Orton’s Head to Toe.

  37. #37 Antaeus Feldspar
    September 30, 2013

    Steigy, thank you for admitting how hollow and useless everything you’ve presented for our consideration is. Oh, I’m sure you don’t realize you were admitting that, but when you say “I’ve never read more of this paper than the abstract; I have no idea whether it actually backs up what it claims to be showing with correct facts and logically sound interpretation of those facts; I just know that its conclusion ‘challenges the standard narrative’ and that’s enough for me” you are telling us that you don’t care where the truth really is.

  38. #38 Dangerous Bacon
    September 30, 2013

    Ben: “Because of the non-rigorous nature of it (it is essentially a collection of other items on the internet that I just put there and hadn’t fully processed, nor pitted against oppositional views), I have redacted that article”

    Good for you. Most Gish Gallopers just keep churning out the same old hog wallow.

  39. #39 Ben Steigmann
    September 30, 2013

    Regarding Antaeus’ comment – I do not have access to the article in question, and have requested those who do to provide it, as it is of interest. Items that I do have access to electronic copies of I have read, or am in the process of over-viewing. I think preliminarily it is not unwise to express trust of the items, since they are peer-reviewed and thus vetted for, and most importantly, what they show is a bunch of people from different backgrounds coming to the same conclusion, which, to me, is a sign of validity. That fact alone should arouse interest, in spite of the fact that I have valued breadth over depth of knowledge in this case. For the vitamin C information that I will argue in a while, I have read from the full text to the extent that I could in the cases where I had access to the electronic copies of the texts. If somebody wanted to be constructive, instead of making asinine comments, they could obtain electronic copies of those texts to provide further clarity on this issue.

  40. #40 Woo Fighter
    September 30, 2013

    Has anyone checked out Steigmann’s blog? Just loaded with the usual standard conspiracy-theory mongering antisemitic garbage you find on Infowars. It’s the Rothschilds, it’s the Jooos, it’s all a global plot, etc.

    And his writing is so long-winded and verbose he makes DJT look concise.

  41. #41 Woo Fighter
    September 30, 2013

    In fact Steigmann also appears to be a 9/11 “truther” who believes it was a false-flag attack orchestrated by “the Zionists.”

    If you Google his name you’ll see he has contributed antisemitic and fringe paranoid comments to a variety of conspiracy-theory message boards. One blog owner mentions that Steigmann’s own mother wrote to him asking that her son’s embarrassing comments be taken down.

    Just so you all know with whom you are debating. This one, he’s not right in the head.

  42. #42 AdamG
    September 30, 2013

    I think preliminarily it is not unwise to express trust of the items, since they are peer-reviewed and thus vetted for, and most importantly, what they show is a bunch of people from different backgrounds coming to the same conclusion, which, to me, is a sign of validity

    I think this says it all right here. Mr. Steigmann, what of the more recent peer-reviewed studies posted by Chris (#30), that use much more accurate methodologies to completely disprove what you’ve claimed?

  43. #43 AdamG
    September 30, 2013

    Wow, Woo Fighter, you’re absolutely right…one look at this guy’s blog reveals he’s waaaay off the deep end.

  44. #44 Ben Steigmann
    September 30, 2013

    Again, more attempts at poisoning the well and appeal to ridicule, showing the depth of intellectual dishonesty of these critics. Fortunately, because of my integrity, I do not stoop to such tactics, though if I did I could note instances of criminality and extreme intellectual dishonesty in the “skeptic” movement, and thus ignore everything they say, and instead use fallacious bully tactics: http://www.dailygrail.com/Skepticism/2013/8/Is-the-Week-Organized-Skepticism-Imploded

    Of course, I don’t do this, I don’t stoop to such levels, as I desire to debate content rather than engage in personal attacks.

    For the “zionism” comment, if you look at the items on my blog (http://bensteigmann.blogspot.com/), I explicitly distance myself from racist, anti-Semitic sentiment, while at the same time, bringing up other items of importance, like this speech in Jerusalem in December 1919 given by Chaim Weizmann, who months later would become president of the World Zionist Organization, and would later become the first president of the state of Israel. As recorded by Judische Rundschau, January 16, 1920 (No. 4), p.4, Weizmann stated the following:

    “Lloyd George once said: I know the Palestinian front much better than I know the French front, for every patch of land and every stream is familiar to me from the Bible. Palestine is, above all, a matter of the Bible for England. The English believe in the Bible more than many groups in Jewry. Thus, first came the idealistic grounds [for the decision to issue the Balfour Declaration], and only afterwards the material. We are the ones who have made clear to the English political leadership that it was in England’s interest to join with us, to spread the British protectorate over Palestine. We reached the [Balfour] Declaration not by miracles, but through persistent propaganda, through unceasing demonstration of the life force of our people. We told the responsible authorities: We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not. You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world.

    We demand neither a charter nor concessions, but rather a complete national edifice that meets the following preconditions: the right to acquisition of ownerless land, the facilitation of land acquisition in general, the prerogative of developing public works, complete autonomy in the spiritual and intellectual sphere, and last not least, a direct influence upon the English administration in the territory. The regulation of immigration by us is, for us, likewise an unconditional demand.”: http://archive.org/details/Weizmann

    So, rather than “crankery”, or whatever pseudo-intellectual argument used to dismiss such things, this, in fact, is genuine evidence that overturns established narratives. More evidence of its type is as follows:
    In a Zionist gathering in 1922, the Zionist leader Nahum Sokolow stated that “The League of Nations is a Jewish idea and Jerusalem some day will become the capital of the world’s peace.” He went further, stating that “Jews throughout the world will make the League’s struggle our own and will not rest until there is ultimate victory.”: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40D13FF3B5D1A7A93CAAB1783D85F468285F9

    David ben Gurion would say similar things about the United Nations: http://mailstar.net/tmf.html

    But other Zionist leaders and spokespersons have made no effort to conceal their less than peaceful aims and tactics:

    Martin Levi van Creveld, professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, wrote: “We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.” I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/sep/21/israelandthepalestinians.bookextracts

    Of interest is “Geneva versus Peace” (Sheed & Ward, New York, 1937), in which Comte de Saint-Aulaire, French Ambassador to Great Britain in the 1920s, discussed his meetings with Kuhn, Loeb, & Co. financiers. They had discussions regarding why they [the Kuhn, Loeb, & Co. bankers] financed the Bolshevik Revolution. One of them said (p. 80): “You say that Marxism is the very antithesis of capitalism, which is equally sacred to us. It is precisely for this reason that they are direct opposites to one another, that they put into our hands the two poles of this planet and allow us to be its axis. These two contraries, like Bolshevism and ourselves, find their identity in the International. These opposites, which are at the antipodes to one another in society and in their doctrines meet again in the identity of their purpose and end, the remaking of the world from above by the control of riches, and from below by revolution. … Our mission consists in promulgating the new law and in creating a God, that is to say in purifying the idea of God and realizing it, when the time shall come. We shall purify the idea by identifying it with the nation of Israel, which has become its own Messiah. the advent of it will be facilitated by the final triumph of Israel, which has become it’s own Messiah.” This same financier also said (pp. 83-84): “… our essential dynamism makes use of the forces of destruction and forces of creation, but uses the first to nourish the second. … Our organization for revolution is evidenced by destructive Bolshevism and for construction by by the League of Nations which is also our work. Bolshevism is the accelerator and the League is the brake on the mechanism of which we supply both the motive force and the guiding power. What is the end? It is already determined by our mission. It is formed of elements scattered throughout the whole world, but cast in the flame of our faith in ourselves. We are a League of Nations which contains the elements of all others. …Israel is the microcosm and the germ of the City of the future.”: http://archive.org/download/LesDerniersJoursDesRomanof/Geneva-Versus-Peace.pdf

    In his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711, Theodore Herzl, the official founder of Zionism, stated that the planned area of the Jewish State stretched: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates”: http://mailstar.net/herzl.jpg

    Theodore Herzl himself stated, on p. 91 of “The Jewish State”, corroborating Weizmann’s threat – “When we sink, we become a revolutionary proletariat, the subordinate officers of all revolutionary parties; and at the same time, when we rise, there rises also our terrible power of the purse.”: http://mailstar.net/herzl-jewish-state-90-1.jpg

    On p. 99 of that text, he stated “The first official violation of Jewish liberties invariably brings about economic crisis. Therefore no weapons can be effectually used against us, because these cut the hands that wield them.”: http://books.google.com/books?id=7cNJAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA99&dq=The+first+official+violation+of+Jewish+liberties+invariably+brings+about+economic+crisis.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YHg9UaSPKsqAygHF04HACQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20first%20official%20violation%20of%20Jewish%20liberties%20invariably%20brings%20about%20economic%20crisis.&f=false

    The motives underlying the Zionist ambition are lucidly expressed in a 1907 New York times article concerning David Wolffsohn’s address to the Zionist congress of the time period:
    http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0D16FD3C5A15738DDDAB0A94D0405B878CF1D3 “Dr. David Wolffsohn of Cologne delivered the closing speech. He dwelt upon the success of the Congress, which, for the first time and in spite of divergence of opinion, had, he said, united in support of the idea if proceeding by political action to practical work for the deliverance of the poor Jewish people. Dr. Wolffsohn declared that the Jewish people must yet conquor [sic] the world.”

    This was repeated in the New York Times upon Wolffsohn’s death, when it recorded the following: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70913FA3D5C13738DDDAE0994D1405B848DF1D3 “In his closing address he pleaded for greater unity among the Jews and said that eventually they must conquer the world.”

    But use of such bully tactics as employed by my critics again only highlights their intellectual dishonesty.

    Regarding comment #30, the other items , and the assertions that others employ a “more rigorous methodology” is an a priori assumption that cannot be made until the full texts of both sides of the argument are obtained.

  45. #45 Kelly M. Bray
    Taking a few steps backwards away from the Steigmann.
    September 30, 2013

    Wow, you really have to appreciate a poster who is so clueless he posts a 17 paragraph screed proving he is insane. No one has to post an “Appeal to Ridicule”, you beat us to it.

  46. #46 Woo Fighter
    September 30, 2013

    He lost me after the first paragraph, where attempting to show he’s not a crackpot he posted a link to a crackpot website.

    As for the rest, tl;dr.

  47. #47 Khani
    October 1, 2013

    #40 Why *is* it always the joooooos.

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