Bleach Enema Karaoke

I wonder if some of his former friends will attend Mr. Crosby's presentation and ask hard questions.

And it's a little sad to think of parents getting together and having a fun experience celebrating using things like MMS on their children.

Fun?
I'm not sure, but I can't think of bleach enemas as fun. These people certainly have a weird idea of what fun is. Perhaps someone should give them a full taste of their own 'medicine'.

Perhaps we can offer a $1 million prize to the person attending Autism One who volunteers to receive 10,000 concentrated bleach enemas, all at the same time?

@Renate: That's because you are a normal person who assumes that autistic children are people, too. As has been discussed on earlier threads, many of the parents who subject their autistic children to MMS and other autism woo treatments don't seem to think that way.

@dingo199: That would be cruel and unusual punishment. First see if any attendee who volunteers to have one of these would volunteer to have a second. Somehow, I doubt you'd get many takers for a second round.

How do I get a share of these people's money?

Do I have to think of a cure for autism and rent a stall? Can I go as a speaker and claim expenses? Or are there vacancies on the organizing committee?

Any advice would be welcome.

"No, not that kind of a quickie..."

I always suspected that Orac wasn't REALLY a box of blinking lights.

At any rate, a quick tour around the worst of woo reveals:
- Mikey discusses his scientific discovery- Metal Retention Factor** (MRF) which is an attempt to fearmonger about how toxins are accumulating and initiating all sorts of serious illnesses and how SBM is clueless.
- TMR's Zoey O'Toole( Professor) defends Jenny against sceptical critics.
-Katie Wright ( @AoA) carps about how Autism Speaks is wasting money supporting research on useless concepts like genetics whereas *she* knows which issues would bear more fruitful results.
- Gary Null stakes out new territory to conquer :the coming year will see him utterly destroy the ( pseudo) science of psychiatry and create a care facility/ residence for homeless war veterans which will serve as a model for humanity.
- Jake's blog. Ha ha ha.

** no joking about memory for bad lyrics

I consider autistic children as people as well, but I have a hard time to consider parents who give bleach enemas as people.

The type of parents that would give their autistic child a bleach enema (good grief, it's what we use to clean our toilets, why would you want to treat your intestines like a toilet?) probably do stupid, dangerous stuff to all their children--but take special perverse pride in the torture of an autistic child.

I have a strong urge to ask other adults on the autism spectrum to volunteer to help me crash their party. I suspect this is sheer wish-fulfillment fantasy (after all, in real life I hate confrontation) with the only realistic thing being that I'd feel safer doing it in a group, but I'd like to see parents have to talk/listen to those of us who can clearly communicate back, since a kid's desires can be dismissed as 'doesn't realize this is good for you'.

In understanding these parents, it's important to remember how stridently they protest that it isn't actually bleach. They honestly do not believe they are doing their children harm this way, because the hucksters who sell MMS (who, in my opinion, should have a variety of unprintable things done to them) work very hard to persuade them that it's really not bleach, and to arm them with "it's not really bleach" arguments to use against the critics, who they're told are either brainwashed or part of the autism conspiracy.

These parents do not understand basic chemistry and they do not know how to look things up for themselves; they've been persuaded, one way or another, that MMS is this great thing for their kids, and that's as far as their critical thinking on the subject went. Past that point it's all entrenching and justification.

It's the *sellers* that I particularly despise. Yes, the parents should have been more critical, and yes they should have listened when their kids seemed distressed by the "treatment", but, well, confirmation bias is a hell of a powerful force, and they have been taken advantage of by exceptionally odious people. Eventually, it took on a life of its own, as the original victims began promoting it on their own, unaware of the horrible truth and unwilling to see it. It's very sad, and makes me furious. It completely baffles me that this is not considered criminal. These children may suffer severe and permanent damage to their digestive tracts, yet nothing is done.

Becca: but I’d like to see parents have to talk/listen to those of us who can clearly communicate back, since a kid’s desires can be dismissed as ‘doesn’t realize this is good for you’.

I hate to burst your bubble, but they don't see autistic adults as people either. I doubt they'd hear a word you or your group said to them. (And, honestly if I could afford it, I'd help you crash the place.)

Of all the twisted stuff that these parents put their children through, for some reason bleach enemas are what really gets me going (rage, blood pressure, etc.).

I work manufacturing water treatment systems which generate ClO2 (Chlorine Dioxide). ClO2 is too unstable and dangerous to manufacture and distribute, hence it must be made onsite. Bleach, on the other hand is available at a local store. So when the purveyors of MMS claim it is NOT bleach, they are technically correct. It is worse and far more dangerous than bleach.

ClO2 is a biocide. It kills living things. Great for water treatment as it kills goes away rapidly. Whenever I go to a generation site, I wear a monitor which, if it detects ClO2 in air above 2ppm, alarms so I can rapidly leave the area. Which I do because I am sane and respect myself and those around me. Kalcker and Rivera take note.

Eventually, it took on a life of its own, as the original victims began promoting it on their own, unaware of the horrible truth and unwilling to see it.

This, too, is a common phenomenon: victims of a con frequently don't want to admit that they have been conned. It's the same reason so many of Burzynski's victims continue to promote his clinic even after their loved one (the patient) dies, and it's the same reason why Nigerian e-mail scams have persisted for so long (some years ago a Harvard Medical School researcher got into trouble for "investing" federal grant money in such a scam). You're right that the sellers of MMS should get much of the blame--arguably, they know or should know they're selling bleach--but they can't keep it up on this scale without the help of true believer victims.

The popular Dr. Andreas Kalcker is on hand for a second year of presentations with Kerri Rivera, and the CD Community is hosting a relaxing place to swap STORIES and PICTURES and FUN – OH MY!

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Next year: Bleach Butthole Bingo.

@AdamG -- Yeah but those who indulge in anal bleaching are adults and presumably are doing it out of choice.

Some of the parents who attend might actually do it to themselves, too. And rationalizations about it (both why to do it themselves and why not to do it) abound, no doubt: it's not actually bleach; they don't have autism, so they don't need it. And re: Becca Stareyes' idea, they wouldn't listen to you. Not necessarily as others have said that they don't view autistic adults as people, but rather because you either aren't really autistic or because your autism isn't as severe.

It would be a rare one that actually listened to anything said by someone on the side of reality.

I have noted that Mr Woo's church is much more enamored of woo than some. They even have some traditional instructions that some proponents use to argue that "natural first" is better. Sometimes I consider blogging my adventures here, but realize quickly that it isn't enough fodder for daily adventures.

Mr Woo went through an MMS obsession, but has managed to get away from it. Friends at church have turned him on to "earthing" now. I have pointed out that there is the possibility that this old house isn't grounded properly in the first place and his cute little wrist band is connected to nothing, but the highly suggestible Mr Woo assures me he sleeps much better now. ~sigh~

A little correction: Jenny McCarthy did not give the conference keynote either last year; she was part of the celebrity panel. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. had keynote honors and used it to make his Godwin comparisons.

Plus, I'd like to have it explained to me what makes Kalcker "popular." I read a story somewhere (on a forum) that he was kicked off the floor of the Barcelona stock exchange for fraud. His NGO, the "Earth Help Project," doesn't exist.

I also find it amusing that the AO webpage has Kerri Rivera and Andreas Kalcker posing with Jim Humble, who can't afford to leave the Dominican Republic because there are arrest warrants put on him by Malawi and other countries.

Bleach Enema Karaoke: has Emerson, Lake and Palmer released a new album?

I have pointed out that there is the possibility that this old house isn’t grounded properly in the first place and his cute little wrist band is connected to nothing, but the highly suggestible Mr Woo assures me he sleeps much better now.

I'd have a hard time coming up with a clearer example of the placebo effect in action. One of the things that makes medical research much harder than the physics I do for a living is that some patients actually do respond to non-treatments like this, or homeopathy, or sham acupuncture, whereas there are no placebos in physics. So before pharmaceutical companies can bring a new product to market, they must not only show that it is safe and effective, but that it is more effective than a sugar pill. But woo-pushers assume (mostly correctly) that their customers don't understand this, and point to the people who responded to their placebo as "evidence" in favor of whatever treatment they are pushing.

@ TBruce
Would it be better than Brain Salad Surgery?

Unrelated, but NaturalNews.com now has the "revolutionary" "research" announcement promised with so much ado by Mike Adams. Some nonsense about toxin retention in foods... It is a target-rich environment, and I humbly request a thorough debunking Orac-style.

whereas there are no placebos in physics

SUSY?

So who's going to get on stage with the truth? I've got ten bucks here if you can work in the phrase "shreddy bits of intestines"...if you get help with the lyrics from Cuttlefish or similar you should probably split it though.

It is a target-rich environment, and I humbly request a thorough debunking Orac-style.

I'm sure it will happen, but probably not tomorrow. I want to see all three announcements and take them all on at once. It might also be a good excuse to resurrect Your Friday Dose of Woo. Besides, my topic for tomorrow is set; I should have done it for today, but a long day in the OR and the relentless cold in my neck of the woods sapped my strength and I went into shutdown mode right after dinner, hence the brevity of today's post.

In one way, Mikey has disappointed me. I thought he'd come up with something less obviously scummy. When does he plan on selling MMS, I wonder? (To bring it back to the topic of this post.)

In physics they call them "controls" instead of placebos.

Ohhhhh Rashid Buttar will also be speaking. Cancer quackery is also on the menu this year?

kruuth, Buttar was a favorite several years ago when it was all about "mercury chelation." He sold parents a cream he claimed would remove mercury. I called it "Buttar cream."

Here is an old Orac article about him:
http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/11/dr-buttar-has-new-protocol.html

"Bleach Enema Karaoke"

Best band name since Pitbull Daycare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6WEKmrz8ug

If these guys consider bleach enemas "fun", I shudder to think what else they fill their free time with.

Fun, bleach, and enemas do not belong in the same sentence together (unless, of course, NOT is also included!)

There may be something akin to a placebo effect in physics, just as there is in biochemistry. I recall somebody writing about the final experimental digit that people would write down in a reading, based on an extrapolation between the lines of some instrument readout, and there was a tendency towards some digits over others. With digital readouts, that is less of an issue nowadays. I also remember that Feyneman wrote about social pressure in science, using as an example the charge/mass ratio of the electron. The value gradually evolved over the years towards the more accurate value, and RF attributed this to researchers not being willing to trust their own data to be too out of line with what Millikan had done.

I don't know if these are entirely analogous to placebo, but I suspect that words like expectation and wishful thinking can explain something of experimental biology, just as habit explains why some people extrapolate to 0.5 and others to 0.7.

Pardon the slightly off topic question but what is the difference between responding to a placebo and just plain improving or "getting better" despite lack of treatment?

-btw- Notice that it's * KERRIoke*
Seriously.

And back OT again:

I am rather disappointed with Mikey myself.. I knew that it would involve scare tactics so that he could sell more stuff.

I think that he's going to frighten people about the supposedly healthy foods, juices and supplements they ingest and then
- sell them *superior* foods and supplements ( he had a mail-delivery organic produce business) that he certifies
- sell them chelators along the lines of green powders and chlorella *certified* as being toxin-free ( he sells a product called 'clean chlorella')
- he also has a thing against the Chinese, so that may come up as well.

I think he might also index foods as being acceptable or not.
Null created a system of measuring a food's inherent 'energy' - obviously, clean, raw, organics are rated at 8 or 9, processed foods lower, meat- and other "dead" food, lower still.

So I can imagine Mike making some sort of ratio- goodness/ badness- which will probably boil down to 'life energy'. corrupted by metal poisoning. ( His first video discussed how civilisations died because of that).

(The things I do for science).

Dr. Rivera went full bore crazy on this podcast. She discusses all her treatments (ocean water therapy, detoxification, de-worming all those imaginary parasites...most effective during the lunar cycle... and MMS bleach therapy for autism. There are a number to testimonial comments from parents who bleached away their kids' autism

Dr. Rivera also provides us with the names of her practitioner/pals in the United States who follow her autism treatment protocols. I managed to post one comment (scroll ~ 3/4 down on the expanded comments page):

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/78-curing-autism-with-kerri-rivera-podca…

whereas there are no placebos in physics

Cold fusion might be considered something similar.

That reminds me of something I read a decade or two ago, but can't track down today. I remember reading that back in the 19th (?) century, the observations made of discharging electroscopes fitted the theories of the time, not what we now know actually happens. Assuming this is accurate, the implication is that even scientists sometimes see what they believe, not what is really happening.

Personally I think this happens a lot more often than we generally realize. Thankfully our beliefs and reality are usually somewhat accurately aligned. This does explain how some people can continue to believe that a powerful gastrointestinal irritant is a miracle cure.

By the way, I believe the MMS brigade claim that chlorine dioxide somehow "stimulates the immune system" as well as killing undetectable pathogens and destroying imaginary toxins. At least that has been their retort when I have pointed out the therapeutic index of chlorine dioxide for dealing with Staph, for example, compares very poorly with something like amoxycillin.

I have a special spot in my heart for MMS. My mother was diagnosed with colorectal cancer in March 2013 and decided to be cured with MMS and an alkaline diet instead of 'poisoning' herself with chemo. Never mind the fact that she didn't leave the house for two months because she vomited constantly. Her 'practitioner' told her the cancer would be gone in six weeks, and that her vomiting and diarrhea was the cancer being crushed. She put every ounce of hope in that man and his spiel.

Mom died on Boxing Day and we buried her four days ago.

I also was diagnosed with colorectal cancer in June 2013. I had surgery and fortunately it hadn't spread to my lymph nodes. If the cancer DOES return, I'll be first in line for chemo.

Thank you for this blog and the time everyone spends on it, Orac and commenters. Quackery of all sorts just makes my blood boil, especially when helpless children or desperate adults are affected.

Anyone who actually does this, who performs a bleach enema on his child - or any one else's!!! - need to be put in prison. There simply cannot be any middle ground on that. There is no possible justification. ANYONE who does this is a psychopath.

It is abuse of the most hideous.

Michelle: I am so sorry for your loss and sending you my best wishes for your continued good health.

-lilady

Assuming this is accurate, the implication is that even scientists sometimes see what they believe, not what is really happening.
Personally I think this happens a lot more often than we generally realize.

Remember Crichton's Rule of 48, that "All Scientists are Blind"?

For years it was stated that men had forty-eight chromosomes in their cells; there were pictures to prove it, and any number of careful studies. In 1953, a group of American researchers announced to the world that the human chromosome number was forty-six. Once more, there were pictures to prove it, and studies to confirm it. But these researchers also went back to reexamine the old pictures, and the old studies -- and found only forty-six chromosomes not forty-eight.

This is only true if "American researchers" are defined as "Joe-Hin Tijo and Albert Levan of the University of Lund in Sweden", and for values of "1953" that include 1956, but NEVER MIND.

Michelle - my heart goes out to you and your family.

Do please share your story widely. If it stops others from making the same mistake, you'll save lives.

You should also name, shame and sue the quack responsible. By the sound of it, you have a strong case.

Null created a system of measuring a food’s inherent ‘energy’ – obviously, clean, raw, organics are rated at 8 or 9, processed foods lower, meat- and other “dead” food, lower still.

Processed foods are low in energy? I feel a new weightloss scheme based on BigMacs and potato chips coming.

I have a dumb question: Why doesn't someone call the state's "Department of Child Protective Services" on these idiots? This is CHILD abuse. And the peddlers of this stuff are promoting CHILD abuse. The state SHOULD investigate, and if sufficient evident is found, prosecute these idiots to fullest extent of the law.

In some states, teachers, MDs, nurses, etc are "mandated reporters." If you suspect child abuse is occuring, you must report it to the relevant state agency. Why the hell are these folks getting a pass??? Please explain.

@ BRAT (what a 'nym ! ) All States have regulations about the duty to report suspected cases of childhood abuse or neglect, by designated "mandatory reporters". Many of the posters on Respectful Insolence are "mandatory reporters".

These child abusing parents subject their developmentally disabled children to industrial bleach oral doses and enemas, behind closed doors and they share their experiences on closed discussion internet boards. IMO, they are well aware that the bizarre "biomedical autism treatments" are abusive.

We had a very lively (at times heated), group discussion on a prior RI post http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/06/11/miracle-mineral-solution-m… about the motivating forces that propel parents to abuse their kids.

Your question is definitely not dumb.

sell them chelators along the lines of green powders and chlorella *certified* as being toxin-free ( he sells a product called ‘clean chlorella’)

Ah. So spirulina bio-sequesters uranium when it is growing (I dimly recall a 2008 paper on that), and chlorella to a lesser extent. So you do not want to consume your healthy super-food supplements unless they have mike's own seal of approval. And it follows (to a certain kind of magical-thinking mentality) that *dead* spirulina and chorella will continue to soak up uranium despite their lack of biological activity, so when they leave your system they take with them all that radioactivity you previously absorbed by eating non-approved supplements.

It all makes perfect sense in the world of cargo-cult biology where "sequester" and "chelate" are the same thing, and where dried green algae is simultaneously (a) a perfect combination of all the nutrients your body needs, and (b) a product that will be excreted in its entirety, taking all manner of toxins with it.

Re. Brat: Someone should contact the local FBI office and provide them with material from those "closed" internet forums, and the info to attend Autism One. Federal felony child abuse, and conspiracy to commit same.

What I don't get, is why the FDA doesn't swoop down on these people like a cat on a rat-infested dumpster. Speaking of target-rich zones! If someone is selling MMS with any claims of treating illness, that will be sufficient to trigger the relevant statutes.

Someone around here probably knows someone at FDA, or someone in law enforcement. Call them, talk to them, get them interested. And/or go to the damn quackfest yourself and collect up as much printed matter as you can get, and turn it over as evidence along with a sworn statement describing how you got it, so law enforcement can start investigating and preparing to attend next year.

@ Andreas Johansson:

I don't think that he means caloric energy but *life* energy:
thus a green powder ( produced w/o being heated above 115 F) that he sells or a green juice from raw fruit/ vegetables is 'living food' ; the processed stuff has already had its iiving essence untimely ripped from it ; meat is *actually* dead: dripping bood and infused with fear and pain molecules that the poor creature experienced in its last moments in this vale of tears.

So low calorie raw salad greens are high energy and high calorie meats and cheeses are low energy. Go figure.

@ herr doktor bimler:

Right. He has another "discovery" of his own today ( go look). Mike seems to think that he can re-package reality so that he has better memes for ad copy about his products.

I wonder if following either of these idiots' eating regimes will make you as crazy as they are.Think about the time-wasting activities, worries about depleted nutrients and toxic contents; the obsessive need for constant checking for additives. Orthorexia, for sure.

Some of the TMs and AoA contributors have ths problem - usually by proxy.

Lurker,

Jim Humble has set up a "church" (Genesis 2)and anyone who buys his MMS can become a "minister." Humble calls himself an "archbishop."

The MMS protocols are called "sacrements" on the Genesis 2 website.

So, like scientology, MMS hides behind freedom of religion and Humble threatens legal action against anyone suppressing his "church's" constitutional freedom as a religion.

You HAVE to check out the ID card that Humble issues to his "ministers." Scroll down here to see both sides of the ID card:

http://genesis2church.org/membership

Note the banner ad for Kerri Rivera's "Healing Autism" book on the MMS page.

@Woo fighter

Wow. Freedom of religion had really got out of hand in the US. Is there something somebody can't do if he does it for religious reasons?

What if I am going to revive the ancient, mezo-american religion of the Maya?

I just read the Genesis 2 membership cards and noticed that they declare themselves exempt from "health insurance mandated by any human government or authority." It'll be interesting to see what happens when tax-time rolls around and they start getting AHA penalty fees.

@ herr doktor bimmler

Spirulina is not as safe and superfoody as those people who promote it as such suggest, according to some groundbreaking research being done by Rachael Dunlop :)
https://theconversation.com/toxic-load-blue-green-algaes-role-in-motor-…

oops - my last post should have read 'groundbreaking research being done by Rachael Dunlop and the team'.
Apologies!

@T (#52)

Yes, there are some things you can't do despite claims it's part of your religion - eating peyote is the classic example.

eating peyote is the classic example

Something something RFRA something Sherbert test something.

^ (The history of the Temple of the True Inner Light and the tangential connection of Alan Birnbaum to the Officially Sanctioned Peyote Cult is of some relevance here.)

So, like scientology, MMS hides behind freedom of religion

"Genesis II" is toast: "We are a Church and don't need to be a 501(c)(3) for your donation to be tax deductible."

lilady and Lurker:

Thanks for your comments. I have a fantasy where the feds get involved, invoking RICO, to go after the peddlers of this bleach based woo. I'm just sitting in abject horror that parents/guardians INFLICT this horrendous practice on their children. But they are being enabled by folks WHO MAKE MONEY from this abuse.

Excuse me as I go quietly vomit.

@ Sarah #53
given that the government is run by shape shifting lizards they are not a human authority and so the ACA must apply, shirley?

@ Incitatus

I noticed this loophole, too.

This recently posted comment on the FB group "CD Autism" (CD is a synonym for MMS) reveals the parents' mindset in abusing their children this way. They don't think that they are torturing their children, they imagine that they are ridding their child of an alien intruder.
___

My 4 to son is autistic, we are doing our 4yh pp. Huge amount of ropes come out of his little body everyday. Sorry that my photo is disturbing but I just want to show you how loaded he is. After each enema do I find ropes! For 3 weeks ago I have decided to give him mebendazol all the time as I must to kill these monsters constantly. I really try to do my best, no more diet mistakes, I wake him up at night to give him extra oral dose,at least two enemas everyday etc., however my son is so slowed down all the time, he even has lost skills, is pale, sometimes he is sick for 3-4 days. He is so far from us, very depressed and week. I am 100 per cent convinced that this protocol will help him, but my family has lost hope as our son is worse than ever. Is it because of detox?Has anybody experienced the same?
___

This post is accompanied by a horrific picture of what I assume is a mound of intestinal mucosa.

And the responses are equally horrific:

Melissa Atchley: I would consult with Kerri. You are obviously on the right path, but your son's body is not handling it well. She can help you adjust the protocol.
January 7 at 5:42pm · Like · 14

Lina Grisales: Wow!! Well done!! I think he can't have Meb all the time, he is so little.. Just 4 years old.. Contact Kerri, she is always there for us xo
January 7 at 5:53pm · Edited · Like · 3

Stephanie Sanford: That is amazing! No worries on poo pics. We're used to them. Yes, sounds like you need to consult with Kerri Rivera.
January 7 at 5:45pm via mobile · Like · 1

___

Kerri Rivera makes money from these "consults". That's the payback, not the selling of the MMS/CD. And the CD Autism group is her marketing arm.

@Michelle - I am sorry for your loss. Good luck in your own fight - my grandmother had bowel resection done in the late 60s for colon cancer and remains cancer-free to this day (no other treatment offered/taken afterwards). I realize the plural of anecdote is not data, but I still think it offers a lot of hope. :)

Back on the MMS - Mr Woo attempted the standard MMS protocol but it (predictably) would always start making him sick long before he was "detoxified." He finally gave up. He still (sadly) offers it to people as a cure when he hears someone has MRSA, etc., though it seems to be happening less frequently. He's back to pushing vitamin D3 on everyone now.

I'm grateful that he has never lapsed deeply into autistism-curing woo. Our one grandson is on the spectrum, and either it's mild enough that finding woo hasn't occurred to him, or he's practical enough to believe that other interventions are more likely to be helpful.

@Broken Link - OMG the poor child. I hope someone knows this family in person, finds out and reports them. You have to wonder how they can't worry that they might kill their child?

Mrs Woo

at least D3 is less toxic and it is possible he may accidentally give it to someone who is deficient and help them

@ Broken Link
What does CD stand for?
These people are crazy. Would it be time for a People for Ethical Treatment of Children? I hope they will get the treatment they deserve, first a dose of their own medicine, to be continued in jail, probably with a sign 'child abuser' on their uniform.
Or am I being to sadistic?.

Renate CD stands for chlorine dioxide- which technically it isnt, but i quibble.

@ Renate

Let's avoid prison rape jokes. Not cool. Starting to look like the enemy and all that.

But feel free to pinpoint which circle in Hell is waiting for these people who are, indeed, child abusers. Or, for the unbelievers in karmic justice among us, just keep calling these peddlers in snake oil for what they are.

@ Helianthus
Yes, I know, but alas I don't believe in some kind of afterlife and reading about these people torturing their children and showing their pride for it, makes me loose my better half.

And I get an advertisement for energised MMS. I suppose I should tell the advertiser to shove it in his ***.

@ Renate

I suppose I should tell the advertiser to shove it in his ***.

The initiated talks of the place where the sun doesn't shine :-)
And invitations to willingly indulge into self-inflicted punishments are more than welcome: they are encouraged.
The regulars of another blog I was frequenting always kept at hand a bucket of hedgehogs to propose as items to be inserted. Dead hedgehogs, of course. You wouldn't want to inflict this to a living animal.

I would confess I would find it really appropriate in these cases. I have some trouble visualizing the level of suffering this MMS enema could do - it's so alien. But the glimpses I manage to apprehend are enough.

@ Brat, I'm sorry to make you vomit a bit more but apparently shoving bleach up your autistic child's bum or down their gullets is not actionable by States' DCFs. Sad but true.

@ Broken Link, "rope" huh? None of these wretched women can admit they're burning their children's intestinal mucosa out? What vile bints.

The woman who posted this on FB is in Slovakia. This woo has spread through out the world.

One of their especially annoying phrases is abbreviated FUA, which stands for "f** you autism". Nice.

@ Broken Link:

Possibly the FUA meme got its start @ TMR.

A post would be titled, 'FUA'- the poster would explain the many ways in which she would say, "FUA" and then commenters would chime in with their own examples ad nauseum.
I think that it's supposed to be the victory battle yelp of the warrior mom valkyries as the shriek their latest conquest of autism by biomed or mother love.
See also Fearless Parent . ( Alison MacNeil/ Luise Kuo Habakus) for nore shrieking.

And yes, they brag about going global with their woo.

That's LOUISE and MORE.
Pardonnez les typos.

I get regular emails from the MMS group because Mr Woo ordered the stuff. They love the fact they are world-wide, and often their 'training' is in exotic-sounding (at least to this middle American) locations. Not at all surprised if the MMS autism thing is being done world-wide. Terribly saddened and frustrated, but not surprised.

People with the one illness I have compare notes and almost all of us test vitamin D deficient. Not quite sure why.

Broken Link:

Good God. It's every bit as horrific as the faith healing stuff; the abuses they put these kids through "for their own good".... It shows the danger in assuming that anyone with good intentions must be okay. These people have good intentions. They seriously think they're helping these kids. And if they ever realize just how much they're harming them, can you imagine how crippling that realization is going to be?

There needs to be jail sentences before people will start taking this seriously, I think. I want Rivera in jail for peddling such obviously destructive advice.

Rivera and, for that matter, the good "Reverend" himself.

One thing I always struggle with - are these people hawking these things "true believers" like Mr Woo? Do they honestly believe what they are saying?

I can't figure out if they are dangerously delusional or sociopaths, and though the end result is the same, I always hope for the dangerously delusional. People making up this stuff just to make a profit when it can be so harmful is just something my brain can't begin to comprehend.

The site the link I get doesn't mention what one could use MMS for, because they are not allowed to do so. All they do is advise to look on the internet. They mention the cleaning of water and other stuff and also cleaning the inside.

There is one thing I don't understand with those alt-med people. If someone refuses to let their child get a further treatment with chemotherapy, to prevent cancer from coming back, which may have the child suffer from some nast side-effects, but which will prevent the child from dying in pain, they are all about complaining about those nasty chemicals.
But is someone is giving their autistic child several bleach enema's each day, making it suffer terrible pains, making it depressed, week and I don't know what, they are encouraged to go on with these treatments and no-one seems to be talking about nasty chemicals, which MMS belongs to, except the so-called pharma-shills.

I suppose I should tell the advertiser to shove it in his ***.

In my former line of work we referred to that as "rectal defilade."

@Renate: Something about control, perhaps? Chemotherapy is out of the parent's control, while the altie treatments are administered by the parent who gains a delusion of control?

But I dunno if it's the same parents in both cases. Bleach enemas are used against autism, mainstream treatments for which tend to the undramatic, while altie replacements for chemotherapy often are mild, if useless. That both groups ally against real medicine needn't be anything stranger than enemy-of-my-enemy.

Here's what you need to do:

Someone who is an MD in a reasonably progressive state needs to go online and take date/time-stamped screen-shots of all of this stuff including the "poo pics" and any pictures of kids and any information identifying where these events are occurring, and put all of it on a DVD. Write up a detailed description of how these bleach enemas qualify as serious and potentially life-threatening child abuse, and asking that an investigation be opened on the group and its members.

Next, go to a lawyer and sign an affidavit stating how you found out about and collected the material on the DVD, and demonstrating that you are medically qualified to make the statements in your write-up. Then walk the stuff (DVD, write-up, affidavit) into your nearest big-city FBI office and ask to schedule an appointment with a Special Agent, and show him/her the material.

FBI agents take child abuse _personally_. It may take a couple of meetings and a couple of different Special Agents reviewing the material, but pretty quickly you'll find one who will forward it to his/her superiors and get an investigation opened. The investigation may take a few years, and you may never find out what happened until/unless you see it in the news (they can't tell you about the investigation when it's ongoing), but rest assured that once you get the Feds on the case, it will be dealt with.

Given that the horrid MMS meme is in fairly wide circulation, it may take a few rounds of people getting prosecuted and going to prison before the public are suitably well-informed and the MMS meme dies off. In a way this is like plain fraud: there will always be fraudsters and victims, but continued prosecutions will at least keep the public aware and reduce the number of victims.