Finally, the State of Florida acts against Brian Clement and the Hippocrates Health Institute

By oracknows on February 25, 2015.

Every so often, it's good to post some heartening news regarding quackery. After all, after a decade of blogging about this, preceded by five years in the trenches of Usenet battling quackery and Holocaust denial, sometimes it's hard for me not to become depressed. After all, there are times when it really does feel as though we're fighting a hopeless battle for rationality and science against unreason and harmful quackery. It's a battle worth fighting, but I'm not laboring under any delusions that it will be won in my life time or even in the lifetimes of anyone currently alive. The various patterns of thought (such as easily confusing correlation with causation) are so hard wired into the human psyche that changing them for the better will take generations.

So it's always a good thing to find out about a possible victory, even if it's small:

The co-director of a controversial Florida health spa where two Ontario aboriginal girls sought natural treatment for leukemia after abandoning chemotherapy has been ordered to stop practising medicine by the state’s department of health.

The cease-and-desist order was made against Brian Clement of Hippocrates Health Institute in West Palm Beach on Feb. 10, according to documents obtained by the Star. He was also fined just over $3,700 for practising without a licence.
The institute has come under increased public scrutiny after the two girls abandoned their chemotherapy treatments in favour of indigenous medicine and other alternative therapies. They both travelled to Hippocrates. One of the two, 11-year-old Makayla Sault, died last month of a stroke, which her parents blamed on chemotherapy.

Clement did not return a request for comment. A spokesperson said he denies the allegations and intends to contest the order.

My only question is this: What the hell took the State of Florida so long? The Hippocrates Health Institute (HHI) has been operating in West Palm Beach since 1987, luring patients like Makayla Sault from all over the world to replace science-based medicine with Brian Clement's quackery, which includes a veritable cornucopia of quackery consisting of practically every form of quackery I've ever heard of (and, as you will see, some that I haven't heard of).

In the course of my discussions of Brian Clement, I've lamented time and time again the seeming inability and/or unwillingness of the State of Florida to do a damned thing to stop Clement's preying on desperate cancer patients. Indeed, many in the comments have speculated that perhaps Clement has friends in high places who protect him from Florida authorities, while I've also realized that Florida has some of the weakest patient protection laws in the country that facilitate the existence of someone like Clement.

Of course, what Clement probably didn't realize is that when he dazzled the mothers of two Canadian aboriginal girls with lymphoblastic leukemia, Makayla Sault and JJ (referred to as JJ in news reports to protect her privacy because of her parents' legal proceedings seeking the right to use aboriginal traditional medicine to treat her leukemia), and they came to his "spa" and "educational facility," that he would be bringing on himself far more attention from the mainstream press than is good for an operation like his. After all, operations like Clement thrive by flying under the radar while building up an online presence and a network of word-of-mouth recruiters using testimonials to sell his products. Unfortunately for Makayla Sault (who died as a result of her mother's trusting Clement's quackery) and fortunately for those of us who have been wondering how he could get away with it, internationally reported stories of two girls with leukemia being lured away from medicine with a good chance of curing them and having one of them die as a result was not good publicity. It even awakened some—but nowhere near enough—investigative journalism.

The media notices

Because I've adequately discussed the issues involving JJ and Makayla (that is, unless something new happens with respect to these girls' stories), what I want to do now is to focus my attention more on Brian Clement himself and his practices. Over the last three years, I've spent considerable time and effort trying to pull the cover off of the machinations and abuse of clinical trial ethics by Stanislaw Burzynski. There's been a growing thought in my mind that a similar effort should be directed at Brian Clement, because, although he doesn't even make a pretense of doing clinical trials, he sells his cancer quackery the same way that Burzynski does: Through testimonials.

Most recently, this increased scrutiny has come in the form of news stories that have been appearing in the Canadian press, two just over this weekend:

"Florida health spa's cancer claims under fire" and "Founder of Hippocrates Health Institute sued successfully twice", Tim Alamenciak, The Toronto Star (February 21, 2015).
"Questions about Hippocrates: Complaint filed against clinic that treated First Nations girl pulled out of chemo", Tom Blackwell, National Post (February 21, 2015).
"Contradicting cancer claims from Hippocrates Health Institute director", Katie LaGrone, WPTV West Palm Beach (February 9, 2015).

I've already covered the WPTV story; so I'll leave that out.

After having noted with sadness just how badly the Star screwed up with its execrable "exposé" on Gardasil (an exposé that the editors of the Star finally saw fit to withdraw under a barrage of well-justified criticism, although they clearly still don't get it), I feel that in fairness I have to note that Alamenciak goes part of the way towards redeeming the Star after that journalistic debacle by actually traveling down to West Palm Beach and interviewing Clement, although Clement wouldn't say anything on camera for this report:

What Alamenciak was allowed to see included several classrooms, the wheatgrass juicing room, and a greenhouse. Pointedly, they weren't allowed into the Vida Building, where many of the alternative treatments are administered. (I wonder why.) Even more pointedly, Alamenciak was accompanied everywhere by HHI's lawyer and PR person, as well as Clement himself. As you'll note, Alamenciak and crew do a good job of putting the lie to Clement's claims that he doesn't promise he can cure cancer, using, conveniently enough, clips from Clement's own talks in which he—you guessed it—tells his audience his raw vegan diet and wheatgrass can cure cancer.

Similarly, Tom Blackwell's story quotes Clement as saying in one of his videos:

The appeal is powerful. Though he often insists he does not "cure" or heal anyone, Mr. Clement has repeatedly claimed impressive results.

"We have … the longest history on the planet earth, the highest success rate on the planet earth of people healing cancer," he said in a Hamilton, Ont., talk, recorded and uploaded to YouTube in 2010. "We have dealt with mostly stage-three, stage-four catastrophic cancers — a big percentage of them, probably 25%, have been told they're going to die. We have seen thousands and thousands of those people recover."

Of course, Clement never manages to present anything resembling credible evidence to back up this claim.

There's another segment as well with Steven Pugh, former Director of Nursing, HHI, who relates stories of Clement ordering blood work without a doctor and telling Pugh that he would review the results himself. This is what led Pugh to quit and sue. Because he is a registered nurse, Pugh can't take orders for lab tests or other medical interventions from non-physicians. If Pugh's allegations are true (and I personally have little doubt myself that they likely are), that is most definitely practicing medicine without a license:

"Almost every single patient there, the majority of patients, got an appointment with Anna Maria and/or Brian to go over their medical history, their labs, blood work, their disease process or just their wellness process and they would recommend treatment," alleges Steven Pugh, Hippocrates' former director of nursing and one of the ex-employees suing the facility.

Johnson offered a written response on Thursday to Pugh's statement: "All blood tests are administered by a medical professional and reviewed by the medical director. As nutritionists, the Clements review the guests' entire health history, which includes the blood tests, with a view toward nutritional recommendations. . . . The medical director is responsible for all medical decisions of any kind."

Hippocrates, which houses as many as 100 people at a time, has one licensed medical doctor working for the facility — Dr. Paul Kotturan.

I had never heard of Dr. Paul Kotturan before; not surprisingly, I wondered what kind of physician would associate himself with an institute like the HHI. So I did some Googling. Dr. Kotturan appears to run an urgent care center, Hillsboro Urgent Care in Deerfield Beach, Florida. His role at HHI is described on its website thusly:

Under the supervision of Dr. Paul Kotturan, Hippocrates' specialized therapies include hyperbaric oxygen therapy, cranial electrotherapy stimulation, IV nutrition and antioxidants, Aqua Chi detoxification therapy, advanced diagnostics, bio-frequency research, targeted supplementation, thermography and more.

What does that "more" include? According to Alamenciak's report, it includes quackery such as:

One of the treatments often mentioned by Clement in videos is Cyber Scan — a machine that claims to read your "bio-frequency" and tells which diseases you have or are at risk for. The machine then spits out a magnetized card — similar to a debit card — that contains the "morphogenetic footprint" of whoever put their hand on the device.

For Pugh, the most surreal treatment moment came when he saw a man blowing a long alpenhorn on the feet of a guest at the centre. The man claimed to be removing "toxins," Pugh said.

And, of course, supplements:

The institute also sells its own line of supplements, called LifeGive, as well as a store stocked with everything from $400 amulets that claim to block electromagnetic waves to a stool designed to angle one's feet while on the toilet that is said to promote "more complete bowel evacuation."

And, of course, there are stem cell treatments. Given that on the surface, the South Florida Bone Marrow/Stem Cell Transplant Institute looks relatively straightforward, treating hematologic malignancies with what sound like fairly standard-of-care treatments, "why Dr. Dipnarine Maharaj would affiliate himself with an entity like the HHI?" is the first question I asked. Surely it does not speak well of him to be featured on the HHI website.

But back to Dr. Kotturan. I was actually rather amazed that it was difficult to find out much about him. He seems to have kept a relatively low profile compared to other doctors administering dubious therapies, at least with respect to the ability of Google searches to reveal much other than his clinic. (And, make no mistake, the medical therapies administered at HHI are highly dubious, ranging from wheatgrass enemas, to the "Cyber Scan" test, to the most unbelievably quacky treatments like Aqua Chi "detox footbaths.") One thing I was able to find out is that he was a site principle investigator of TACT.

For those who don't remember, TACT stands for "Trial to Assess Chelation Therapy"; it was a $30 million unethical boondoggle of a multiinstitutional study designed to assess whether chelation therapy has any value for treating cardiovascular disease. It was basically a negative study, but its principal investigator, Gervasio Lamas, has been spinning it furiously as showing that chelation very well might work for cardiovascular disease and that, of course, "more study is needed" (preferably in the form of another large NIH grant to do a follow-up multiinstitutional study. In this Annals of Internal Medicine publication, Kotturan is listed as one of the investigators, which means he must have been administering chelation therapy during the timeframe of the study, which was several years. Certainly, Kotturan's name comes up as offering chelation therapy and IV vitamin therapy for at least one "holistic retreat." His name also pops up in this TACT Talk newsletter as one of the site investigators who won a Persistence Award in the 2005 TACT Derby for enrolling five patients over three months. He's also a member of the American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM), a leading proponent of chelation therapy and what Dr. Kimball Atwood likes to refer to as a pseudomedical pseudoprofessional organization. His ACAM entry lists him as providing "Allergy, Chelation Therapy, Cosmetic Laser Surgery, Family Practice, Gynecology, Holistic Medicine, IV Therapies." One wonders what else is covered in the "holistic medicine" part. Does he offer the same sorts of quackery at his own practice as he does at HHI? Inquiring minds want to know! Actually, I suspect that I do know. I rather suspect that Dr. Kotturan probably keeps it legitimate at his own practice and uses HHI as the outlet for his more "holistic" approaches, but that's just an educated guess.

Marketing HHI: Testimonials a-go-go

If there's one thing all three stories show, it's that Clement makes a lot of money running HHI. Blackwell's story, for instance, reports that filings to the IRS indicate that Brian Clement and his wife Anna Maria Gahns-Clement, the latter of whom serves as HHI vice-president, earned almost $1 million between them in 2013, even though the HHI is classified as a non-profit institute and therefore tax-exempt. Almenciak reports that Clement and his wife were paid $529,363 and $432,291 in income and benefits that same year and that the HHI reported receiving $15.1 million in fees for its "services." Given that HHI has been operating in West Palm Beach since 1987, one can imagine how much wealth the Clements have amassed from its operations and their evangelizing speeches all over the world. It's also not hard to see where he might "earn" such money, given that he charged JJ and Makayla $18,000 each for their "treatment." All three stories feature photos and video showing just how large and fancy the grounds and facilities of HHI are.

Like Stanislaw Burzynski, a key element of the Clements' marketing campaign includes patient testimonials. They can be found on the HHI website and YouTube channel. I very well might analyze several of these testimonials, either here or at my not-so-super-secret other blog, but for now, given the length of this post, I'll just look at two.

First, there is this testimonial from Dr. Jackie Campisi:

Jacki Campisi's story is horrifying. Basically, she started out by denying herself her one best shot at survival after her diagnosis. My observations on the brief video include:

It is not clear in the video whether Dr. Campisi ever had surgery for her primary tumor or not. She says that she was told that she would require "chemo, radiation, and drugs." Besides the chemo, which drugs? Tamoxifen? Arimidex? Herceptin? It turns out that she did have a mastectomy, but I had to do some Googling to discover this (and also to discover that she's an optometrist, not a physician). In any case, that same link revealed that she embraced quite a bit of cancer quackery six and a half years ago, before she ever encountered Brian Clement.
Dr. Campisi recurred six years later with spine metastases. Doesn't that tell you that what she did wasn't really working? Unfortunately, her spine metastases resulted in fractures, as spine metastases all too frequently do.
It's quite possible that Campisi had a fair amount of healing from her fractures while at HHI, but it's obvious that she still couldn't walk until after she had surgery. Also, her weight loss probably made a big difference.
It's good that her spine surgery helped her quite a bit. Surgery for malignant fractures usually does help. It's unclear to me what operation she had, though.
A four day hospitalization sounds about right for the surgery Dr. Campisi had, neither too long, but certainly not significantly shorter than the usual range.
It's very telling that Dr. Campisi doesn't explicitly say whether she still has spine metastases or if her tumor is gone. She does, however, go on and on about the oxygen in her blood, her blood glucose levels, etc. I presume the cancer is still there.
Overall (and fortunately for her) Dr. Campisi seems to have a variety of breast cancer that is slow-growing and indolent. That it took six years to recur suggests it's probably estrogen receptor-positive, and that it doesn't seem to have progressed much since also argues that it's probably fairly indolent. If this is true, she could still live quite a long time with such a tumor, as it appears to have favorable biology. However, it would be interesting to know some things: Stage at diagnosis; status of estrogen and progesterone receptors; HER2 status; the specific operation she had.

Basically, here we have a woman who underwent surgery alone for a stage III cancer, apparently refused radiation and chemotherapy in favor of a raw vegan diet and other "alternative" treatments, had a recurrence in the spine, found Brian Clement, and is continuing to make the same mistakes. I'm glad she seems to be doing better, but, sadly, Clement is not going to save her. Nothing can. Fortunately, she might still live several more years because of the seemingly-favorable biology of her tumor. Unfortunately, she might have done even better if she had accepted standard-of-care palliative therapy. Also, she will likely credit Clement for how well she does.

Another testimonial, mentioned in Blackwell's article, is Samantha Young:

One Canadian woman, Samantha Young, says she was given just months to live after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and maintains she was rid of the frightening disease after visits to Hippocrates.

Young's testimonial can be found on the HHI website as well, oddly enough, filed under "Depression," rather than cancer:

Back in the late nineties I found myself suffering unimaginable fatigue, nausea and constant interrupted sleep brought on by the excruciating pain in my stomach. My physician conducted some investigative blood work which appeared completely normal. Finally, upon my insistence, she suggested an ultrasound. That revealed a ten centimeter mass in the tail of my pancreas.

The doctor explained that if I were older, she would believe that the tumor was benign. However, because I was young she suspected it might be cancer. Just that word instilled so much fear in my heart. My mind started to race, ruminating on all the medical statistics about the increase of cancer and how treatments most often are more harmful than helpful. Of course the doctor advised that my options were surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation.

What could that benign diagnosis have been? If there are any general surgeons or gastroenterologists reading, I bet they know. I'll get to it momentarily. In the meantime:

Finally, my physician suggested that I see a specialist, Dr. Taylor, who supported the pancreatic cancer diagnosis with finality. Thank God my five daughters came and nurtured me. They adjusted their schedules and stayed with me at the onset of this sad period of my life. They described my color as gray green. Every day seemed insurmountable. On top of all of this the doctors finally admitted that although chemotherapy and radiation treatment were suggested, they ultimately would not make any difference in my case, nor would they prolong my life. They told me, "I am sorry, Samantha, get your house in order."

We've heard this story before. Of course, a 10 cm mass in the tail of the pancreas would make me consider something other than pancreatic cancer in the diagnosis. Run-of-the-mill pancreatic cancer, the kind that kills most patients within a couple of years of diagnosis even if operable and successfully resected (expected five year survival after a Whipple operation, for instance, for pancreatic cancer is only on the order of 25%), generally doesn't grow to 10 cm without metastasizing. That this one did implies that it's either a less aggressive form of pancreatic cancer or not pancreatic cancer at all. Notice, in any case, that nowhere is there a report of a biopsy confirming the diagnosis. (Actually, rereading the testimonial, I don't see any evidence that Young ever had even a CT scan, which is considered mandatory for determining whether a pancreatic cancer might be resectable.) Of course, if pancreatic cancer has already metastasized, then expected survival is measured in months. So what happened? Young found Dr. Clement, of course, and this happened:

I slowly adopted the program and was so impressed when I microscopically viewed cancer cells thriving on cooked food. This wrenched me into the full adoption of the living food diet. Slowly but surely, my color returned to a more acceptable yellow pallor, and as time passed my normal complexion prevailed.

In addition to the diet I also used far infrared therapy to gently heat my body up to 40 degrees Celsius. I also made sure to include lots of massage and reflexology, as well as continuing my medication and creative visualization, along with copious amounts of wheatgrass.

After two years the tumors had shrunk from 10 centimeters to 4.5 centimeters.

Before I knew it, I was in remission. Now I understood fully that cancer can be beaten.

In other words, she did nothing to treat her presumed cancer. Of course, I doubt that she ever had cancer in the first place. Given her clinical history, what I rather suspect (and, I bet, any general surgeons out there suspected) is that she really had was a pancreatic pseudocyst. Pseudocysts often arise after a bout of pancreatitis. Early in her testimonial, Young describes herself "suffering unimaginable fatigue, nausea and constant interrupted sleep brought on by the excruciating pain in my stomach," all of which can be symptoms of pancreatitis. Not knowing more of her clinical course, I find it not hard to envision that Young suffered pancreatitis and developed a large pancreatic pseudocyst, which slowly resolved spontaneously, as many pancreatic pseudocysts, even ones larger than 5 cm, do. Moreover, pancreatic pseudocysts are sometimes misdiagnosed as cancer and vice-versa, but less commonly these days given that virtually any large pancreatic mass can be biopsied pre-operatively, something that wasn't necessarily true 20 years ago when I trained. Again, we have no evidence of a tissue diagnosis anywhere to help guide us, and, given that, I rather suspect that this was indeed a pancreatic pseudocyst that resolved.

In Blackwell's story, we learn:

Mr. Pugh said it is quite possible that some of the cancer patients at Hippocrates are cured, but in the little over a year that he worked there, he was not personally aware of any such successes.

"I would get emails occasionally from a family member saying a patient had succumbed to cancer," he said.

I'd be willing to bet that no one at HHI survives cancer due to anything done for them at HHI. Indeed, as Alamenciak reports, there are testimonials on the HHI website whose stories have not been updated to report that the patient died, patients like Annalisa Cummings, who died in 2009.

Cancer quackery unfettered

The more I learn about Brian Clement, the more I wonder: How on earth has this guy been operating for three decades in Florida? Clearly, the State of Florida has utterly failed to protect its citizens from quackery. In fact, given how many people, such as Makayla Sault, come from all over the world, Florida has failed to protect everyone. Clement and his wife are both registered as nutrition counselors. Clement's PhD in nutrition comes from the University of Sciences, Arts and Technology, a school licensed by the government of Montserrat, an island in the Caribbean with a population of about 5,000. It's widely viewed as a diploma mill. Yet, thanks to a loophole in Florida law (see below), the Clements continue to get away with making promises they can't fulfill, all the while with a "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" disclaimer that they "don't promise cures," even though everything they say in their promotional literature and talks would lead one to think that they can cure stage III and IV cancers where scientific medicine can't.

What's going on is so obvious, too. The Hippocrates Health Clinic has a Massage Establishment license, issued by the Florida Board of Massage Therapy. Also, the Florida Agency for Health Care Administration (AHCA) licenses health care facilities, such as health care clinics and hospitals, and processes complaints about the quality of care in these facilities. Further, it is known that a complaint was filed with ACHA against the HHI for operating a health clinic without the proper state license. However, as our resident Florida lawyer and SBM regular contributor Jann Bellamy informed me when I asked her about it, under state law, only clinics receiving reimbursement from third-parties, such as public or private insurers, are required to have an AHCA-issued license. Because Hippocrates is a cash-only business, AHCA was apparently without jurisdiction to take action. The result of this gap in state law is that clinics offering only unproven treatments, which aren't reimbursed by insurance, are the very ones who are outside the reach of state supervision. Meanwhile the FTC won't say whether it's investigating or not.

In both the WPTV report and Tim Alamenciak's report, Clement is asked about accusations that he gives cancer patients false hope. He immediately replies, "There is no such thing as false hope."

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Hope is important, but cancer patients need that hope to be tempered with a realistic assessment of their prognosis. Clement takes that away from them, and he's damned callous about it too, as his answer to Alamenciak's same question reveals:

When confronted with the testimonials people wrote — testimonials full of hope, that have not been updated to indicate those who later died — Clement says:

"That's not false hope. I'm going to die. Do you realize that? You're going to die," he says. "I have hope that I'll become a multi-billionaire some day and be able to change the world. Is it going to happen?

"I would never tell somebody don't do chemotherapy. I'm not a medical doctor, nor do I believe I should tell them to do that ... I'm going to die; they're going to die. Does it mean that I did something wrong because they came here? Maybe they were very, very sick at some point and they went home and eventually died? What do I have to do with that? Explain, what does Hippocrates have to do with that?" said Clement.

In response to questions about Stephanie O'Halloran, Clement is quoted thusly:

" ... From a one-hour lecture in Dublin, this woman decided that I could heal her? That's not even realistic when you think about that," said Clement said in an interview in his Florida office.

These are, of course, the sorts of questions that a con man asks when confronted to deflect responsibility from himself to his marks. It's not his fault they believed him!

As good as it is that the State of Florida has finally done something, I'm under no illusions that this is a major victory. It's simply a victory in one skirmish in a war that's likely to go on a long time. After all, a $3,738 is nothing to a guy like Clement, and he surely has high price lawyers who are even now fighting this order. Given the laxness of Florida's laws protecting patients, it wouldn't surprise me if he won. But there was no chance that he could lose as long as the State of Florida stood by and did nothing. At least now there's a chance the HHI could be shut down.

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At least the foot stool for the toilet doesn't seem to be complete crap: http://www.cracked.com/article_19121_7-basic-things-you-wont-believe-yo…
But the rest is definitely complete quackery.

After all, a $3,738 is nothing to a guy like Clement

I had the same reaction. His institute is cashing about $ 6000 a week per patient.
Sure, he has to pay his employees and put a bit aside for maintenance and consumables, but wheatgrass farming isn't that expensive.
Actually, I don't know. Gettting an alpenhorn blower on the staff may not be cheap. Did he try a vuvuzela instead?

Anyway, it's a start.

only clinics receiving reimbursement from third-parties, such as public or private insurers, are required to have an AHCA-issued license

That's some catch, that Catch-22.

filings to the IRS indicate that Brian Clement and his wife Anna Maria Gahns-Clement, the latter of whom serves as HHI vice-president, earned almost $1 million between them in 2013, even though the HHI is classified as a non-profit institute and therefore tax-exempt

Of course the HHI isn't making any profits, because they pay Mr. and Mrs. Clements so much in salaries. Actually, if the 2013 numbers are typical, the HHI isn't as egregious as some "non-profit" organizations: the institute is only paying Mr. and Mrs. Clements a bit more than 6% of their gross revenues. I've heard of cases where the non-profit organization not only pays the person controlling it a hefty salary, but a big chunk of its non-salary expenses are paid to vendors also controlled by that person. Granted, I don't know who is supplying HHI with wheat grass enemas, anti-toxin foot baths, alpenhoorns, etc., but HHI does have to pay staff salaries. Not to mention lawyers.

"... a stool designed to angle one’s feet while on the toilet that is said to promote “more complete bowel evacuation.”

While exceedingly glad to see the article in my local paper concerning this, I must confess that the above phrase caused undue hilarity on my part. Seems somewhat apropro that someone like Clement, peddling his particular brand of horse ... um ... feathers would provide a support with which to facilitate the removal said horse ... um ... feathers from his unlucky victims.

I understand Prince Charles during his tour of the US is opening a new wing of the HHI !!

Actually no, but the quackery seems right up his street.

These two are completely different characters though, Clements is a smart, rich unscrupulous and despicable con man, Charles on the other hand is just a fairly dim buffoon.

Campisi states: " I have formally trained as a physician... " and that she has an interest in natural medicine.

I have searched in vain to find out what her credentials are. Is she actually a physician? Or is she nothing more than a chiropractor or naturopath?

It's called the squatty potty http://squattypotty.com/

As seen on Dr. Oz, and promoted on paleolifestylemagazine .com. But, as was mentioned @ #1, not complete crap. heh.

http://www.drjackiecampisi.com

Sorry, I don't see this as a victory. It is simply a minimal action to deflect bad publicity while protecting Florida's friendliness to schemes, scams and sponges.

10-15 in Max for this guy would be a deterrent to the next one. A dollar amount he may well spend on one fancy dinner with guests, no.

When I read this post, I thought how incredible it is that people fall for such mumbo-jumbo, but then I saw a woman on Dr. Phil who sent $1.4 million to a man she had never seen who promised to marry her (variation of Nigerian letter scam).

When I read this post, I thought how incredible it is that people fall for such mumbo-jumbo,

Desperation and/or hopelessness can do funny things to people.

This what Carolyn's comment, at #9, is referring to:

Sponsored by and benefit for Dr. Jacqueline Campisi of Stonington, in support of her recovery from stage 4 metastatic cancer to her spine. Having been diagnosed by Dr. Chris Deveau of East West Chiropractic and Groton MRI on April 15th, Jackie flew to the Hippocrates Health Institute in West Palm Beach FL where she was mentored by Drs. Brian & Anna Maria Clement. Here she learned about the power of living foods and quantum/energetic medicine. The process helped her loose 50lbs -greatly reducing the impact to her spine where she had 2 compression fractures from a tumor at L4-5. While detoxing from heavy metals, sugars and toxins that contributed to her decreased health, she experienced many unique treatments offered at the center. These enabled to her to decrease inflammation and pain which allowed her to return to CT for surgical care. Her spinal surgery and treatment at The William W Backus Hospital was such a success, she did not require ANY post-operative medications after an 8 hour procedure by Dr. Ken Paonessa of Norwich Orthopedic Group, PC. She credits Amy Dunion, RN, LMT Coordinator of the Center for Healthcare Integration at Backus Hospital. Amy offered an array of complimentary alternative medicine while preparing for surgery. Jackie’s chance meeting with Lisa Zaccheo of www.mindmattershypnosis.com 2 weeks prior to surgery was another reason she felt success.

Her mentor, Dr. Brian Clement will speak on the topic "Power of Live Food to heal Diseases and Conquer Aging" In this lecture, he will address the half century of work on disease and longevity conducted at the renowned Hippocrates Institute. These lifestyle protocols enabled Jackie to decrease inflammation & strengthen her immune system.

Dr. Clement will discuss how the living foods lifestyle can provide abundant energy and extraordinary nutrition that protects cells from early death, thereby extending lifespan. Cardiovascular Disease, diabetes, MS, ALS, Parkinson, Fibromyalgia and more can be altered, prevented, and at times conquered with Phyto-chemicals, antioxidants and other nutrients consumed on a diet of organic vegan living food. Dr. Clement will explain the basic science and extraordinary mechanisms that bring about a heightened and balanced immunity. Hundreds of thousands worldwide share enthusiasm in their greatly improved health by utilizing unprocessed green foods. One look at Jackie and you will see that this is true. She is a Stage 4 Cancer survivor full of energy and vibrancy. Her family is grateful for all that she has learned and passed onto them so that they may thrive not just merely survive.

Fresh Organic Raw Coconut water by Noelani will be provided for purchase along with Green Juice- World Famous Hippocrates Recipe and Wheatgrass shots grown by Sprout it out!

Book signings by Dr. Clement will occur after the lecture. Proceeds will be donated to Jackie’s family.

Having been diagnosed by Dr. Chris Deveau of East West Chiropractic and Groton MRI on April 15th

This is within the chiropractic scope of practice in Connecticut?

The French quack diploma mill whose "degree" Clement touts has fled from him faster than you can say "Zut alors":

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/florida-naturopath-facing-charges-af…

I think simply diagnosing spinal metasteses would fall sufficiently within the defined scope, under

2) Examine, analyze and diagnose the human living body and its diseases, and use for diagnostic
purposes the x-ray or any other general method of examination for diagnosis and analysis taught in any
school or college of chiropractic which has been recognized and approved by the State Board of
Chiropractic Examiners

From a one-hour lecture in Dublin, this woman decided that I could heal her? That’s not even realistic when you think about that,” said Clement said in an interview in his Florida office.

And so of course Dr. Clement did the right thing and declined to treat her, hexplaining that it was unrealistic to believe that any interventions he offered could cure her disease...

No, wait. He took her money and treated her anyway.

Thanks, Phoenix Woman, I had missed this gem:

The state prosecutor in Massachusetts accused Clement of claiming his treatments could cure AIDS, serious burns, diabetes, cancer and other illnesses, as well as fraudulent claims by Clement that he had been honored by the Nobel Prize committee.

I hate this guy as much as I hate Burzynski. I wonder when (oh what's his name the filmmaker) will get around to making a movie about poor, misunderstood, medical pioneer Brian Clements!

@ JGC

hexplaining

Nic e accidental typo :-)
A portemanteau of hexing and explaining would be a nice descriptor of the behavior of Clement and other like-minded predators: explaining to you that great guys they are and as a result charming you into following them to their den...

Narad #14:
Yeah, I wouldn't put any credence in any element of that blurb. Groton MRI is a legit facility used by many of the sbm docs in the area. 'Diagnosed by chiro and Groton MRI' doesn't necessarily mean the two are connected. Her PCP or Backus could have sent her for the MRI, and her chiro given a 'second opinion'. AFAIK, the MRI reports don't interpret the results, but perhaps her report could have been so obvious even a chiro could look at it and say, 'yup, cancer.' I would guess a chiro can order an MRI in CT, but I don't know for sure. The website for East West Chiropractic suggests Dr. Chris Deveau is closer to the 'reform' end of the chiro scale, "Chiropractors provide physical solutions to help the body heal from conditions that are physical in origin, such as back pain, muscle spasms, headaches, and poor posture."

The whole blulb seems full of ambiguity designed for willful conflation of sbm and Clement's quackery. Particularly suspicious:

Amy Dunion, RN, LMT Coordinator of the Center for Healthcare Integration at Backus Hospital offered an array of complimentary alternative medicine while preparing for surgery.

Hmm. Like what? I looked up what Backus offers:

Prepare for Surgery, Heal Faster is a program using relaxation and guided imagery, a practice of visualizing positive outcomes to an event (e.g. surgery, chemotherapy) to lessen anxiety and promote pain relief. This process can enhance the body’s immune system and promote quicker healing. The patients receive a book and CD and attend a one and a half hours class, which is ideally taken 2-3 weeks prior to surgery.

The Backus Center for Healthcare Integration is under the auspices of the Oncology Department. Dunion was hired in '03 to run the program, which then had three components: 1) the Prep for Surgery program, 2) massage therapy, 3) pet therapy – the later two designed to help patients deal post-op or during chemo/radiation treatments. Since the Center has added reiki/therapeutic-touch, reflexology and acupuncture. While all of this bears vague claims to 'strengthen the immune system', the focus is clearly on stress reduction and helping chemo patients keep their spirits up.

No wheatgrass. No natural cures. In short, I suspect any sort of compatibility between HHI and Backus Hospital exists only in the mind of Jackie Campisi as scripted by Brian Clement.

What the hell does "enhance the immune system" mean anyway, in physiological terms? How is the degree of enhancement over baseline measurements quantified?

"Briiiii-an, you git some h'explainin' to do!"

Spectator #10
Bingo. A wrist-slap to limit the damage, given that the governor who guided the quack-friendly measures into Florida policy, Jeb Bush, is running for president.

I can't imagine HHI has the influence to get a Bush to push policy changes just for its own benefit. I have to wonder how many other perhaps less egregious (perhaps not) health scams are operating in Florida. As Orac notes, Clement's hubris in recruiting at Six Nations exposed him to international scrutiny. That kind of mistake gets you kicked out of the club into the scapegoat pen.

It's probably now in the best interests of the quack-friendly politicians and all the other quacks for Florida to crucify Clement for public consumption, not just shut down HHI but toss him in jail for awhile. Bad apple extracted, 'the system works', pressure's off, everybody else goes on with business as usual. The HHI campus is sold, and in a couple years another health spa with more modest quack claims opens on the grounds. I'm sure there's plenty of money to make with all the pseudo-med-tech in the Vida building and even a wheatgrass kitchen without going to far as to claim cures for "stage-three, stage-four catastrophic cancers". You know, it's just "wellness education" (nudge, wink).

Clement was probably doing just fine nudging and winking and got greedy enough – or racked up some debt to not-very-nice people – that he went too far. Which could make him a liability to a variety of much larger enterprises. Hmm...

Maybe I've read too much Elmore Leonard and Carl Hiassen, but I wonder what names might be in Clement's little black book, and what stories he might be able to tell. And if HHI continues to get media scrutiny, I wonder if anybody else wondering the same things might not want to wait on actions by the State of Florida lest any secrets Clements may hold be revealed in the process...

@ JGC #22

'Nothing' would be my guess.

And it's not quantified because everyone at Backus knows at one level or another, it's psychology one way or the other.

Maybe it's the 'holistic' immune system, not the physiological one, and it's just that you're less likely to get sick (or maybe just feel sick) if you're less depressed by the effects of chemo.

Off-topic, with apologies (I couldn't find a right-to-try post with comments still open)

At Salon:

Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore (R), believes that cancer is a fungus, which can be flushed out from the body by means of an “inexpensive, cost-effective” and non-FDA approved treatment. ,,, She was announcing her intention to introduce a bill that would give terminally ill patients access to treatments that haven’t been approved by the FDA

JGC, sadmar: in quackery alternative/holistic/natural health belief systems, "immune system" mean "vital force", or chi/qi, or prana, or whatever your favorite ethnic group that you don't belong to calls it.

Regardless of the question whether Florida's AG is going to pay attention, I suspect that it would be a world of asshurt if the 501(c)(3) status of a private spa (or "massage establishment") were called into question.

I have been to Hipposcrates .....4 weeks to be exact. Attended many lectures by Brian Clement, never heard him say he could cure anything. I also am old enough to remember chiropractors being called quacks .Has anyone read the China study.??? What if it were true. Food is thy medicine. What would it mean to the medical industry ,insurance companies,drug companies? Follow the money,, grow up people, stay aware.

Narad

I suspect that it would be a world of asshurt if the 501(c)(3) status of a private spa (or “massage establishment”) were called into question.

Would you be alluding to the sort of "massage establichment" that provides happy endings or am I misunderstanding you?

Are you posting everyone's responses? I think not!
For anyone to be against cleaning their system out by eating a pure food diet is absurd. It's common sense. Sorry you can't make money off it. One day when you get sick or your loved one does let's see if you consider it!

Dina, it was once "common sense" that the Earth went around the Sun. It was once "common sense" that bleeding people made them better. It was once "common sense" that witches caused diseases, and burning them was the solution.

Where is your evidence that it works? Real evidence, not just "I tried it and I felt better!"

I also am old enough to remember chiropractors being called quacks

This doesn't really add anything to the observation that you got taken for four weeks' bread by Clement, now, does it?

Are you posting everyone’s responses? I think not!

Why's that?

@Dina - IIRC the first time you post with a given email address it goes to automoderation. If you use a different bogus email (or mistype the one you have been using) you get auto-moderated.

Or are you just incredulous that there are not hundreds of posts from satisfied customers.

As for can't make any money off of the idea of pure food. Do you know how big a business the juicers and the spas and all the people who make big money implying that food (and their specific version of food) will heal you?

FWIW all the science-based people tend to promote eating as much whole unprocessed food as possible. They aren't just selling you the one juicer you need that is better than all the other juicers or a spa package for hundreds or thousands of dollars a week while pulling down million dollar salaries.

Damn we've been given away that advice for free or nearly free? Whoops.

Am not at all surprised of just another attempt or of own corrup tmedical system that ofcouse includes Big Pharma to discredit Brian Clement. I also went to Hippocrates a little over 5years ago. I was post lumpectomy for breast cancer and afterbeing told that theywanted me to ungerdo radiation and chemotherapy knew it was not the option I wanted to pursue because of my

own personal convictions and the Lords devine wisdom. believing that you cannot treat an immune disorder with poison
and radiation. Ssomething that our

e so called exalted medical community the AMA still believes in
and it's killing people.In my case its been family members and
many friends and yes some people that I met in Hippocrates

who got there too late after the doctors had their way with

them.While at Hyppocrates I was never told by Brian himself or

any of his staff
That they could cure cancer. INFACT AT ORIENTATION I signed paperwork that spelled it out for me loud and clear. what I did receive an Epocrates with support knowledge and confidence that I didn't have to let this disease devour me and that their treatments could boost my immune system dramatically and it didyes the food is expensive in the supplements as well but considering what it cost for a chemo treatment or radiation it's a fraction of the costbut again he never said that he could cure cancer and certainly our medical community is doing nothing to cure cancer only trained people of their life savings and make the mortgage their homes to endure torturous and ineffective treatmentsand no I am very sorry for the experience of these two young women I do not believe in my heart that Brian Clement met them anomalous because I believe that he is a true humanitarian and brilliant nutritionist and Dr.

it and I could beat it

also

I'm sorry if some of what I said wasn't posted properly but I think you got the gist of what I was trying to sayat the present time I'm being treated by a doctor the cancer specialist and believes in alternative and traditional treatment which I think is the most effective none of those include large amounts of chemotherapy or radiation so to those of you who have cancer or know somebody is going through that please consider all of your options before you submit yourself to traditional medicineto the cookie cutter treatments used today by most of the alliopaths.

Cyndi P: Modern cancer treatments are not "one size fits all", extensive tests are done to see which method will work best for this cancer and this patient.

Oh, and the fact that you felt better doesn't help your case. Lots of patent medicines from the 19th century made people feel better because they contained a large quantity of alcohol.

Gray at present I have a wonderful physician who Does NOT pracitce a one size fits all approach. What i am saying that it has been my u fortunate experience as well as many other folks that i personally know or have spoken with who have. And their treatments have been typical surgery chemo and radiation with not good resultr. The profit is NOT in the cure but the treatment. WHICH i believe by now should be readily available.

Cyndi, calling modern medicine a "one size fits all" approach suggests either appalling ignorance or gross dishonesty on your part.

Also, if your doctor prescribes the same diet for each of hundreds of different types of cancer, doesn't that mean he follows a "cookie cutter" methodology?

Are you posting everyone’s responses? I think not!
I assume that Dina is responding to the failure of Debra Richardson 's comment to appear immediately.

a pure food diet
Hey, my diet purely consists of food! * No sand or expanded polystyrene for me!

* Beer and coffee are classified as foodstuffs among my people.

I went to hippocrates when western medicines had no answers. Contact me. I have proof that it works. I had 2 doctors logging my blood work and scans done for inflamation to prove it. You people think eating real food is a scam. Look around how sick and fat the world is. Food food food. What we eat is killing us. All the toxins. Dr clement is not practicing quackery. He is the smartest and most loving man I have ever met and his wife. Fear of what you don't understand makes you attack things that work. Don't knock till you try it. We have lost loved ones to chemo but know one goes after the real scammers. The ones whom are making billions off the the deaths of our loved ones. You think for one minute the drug companies are looking out for your best health. Grow up do your homework before you judge others.

Cyndi, breast cancers are not immune disorders. Who has telling you they are, and therefore chemotherapy and radiation are not appropriate interventions to reduce the risk of relapse?

And can you explain why you think alternative and traditional treatments are the most effective interventions for cancer, Cyndi--from what evidence does this conclusion derive?

Gray I didnt say anything about my Drs diet and it is not raw food actually more ketogenic, what I did say is he combines the best of alternative medicines to boost the immune system as well as smarter tradtional medicine.He lectures at Harvard and is a pioneer in his field a y many of his later stage cancerpatients who were sent to hospice by their oncologists are now in remision. now back to dr Clement which is the main point of this article. it was my experience to know him as a very kind and caring and knowledgeable nutritionist doctor who helped a lot of the patients that came in to see him and I know that he had no malice toward any patience and one of the best for each of them from his heartbut he never told anyone that he was going to cure them just told them that he could boost your immune system and give them some wellness even in their disease and not to give up and that's a lot more than what you get from the mainstream and by the way as I said before does anyone have a cure yet

my doctor is also a cancer scientist as well as a researcher and has done many scientific studies as well as keeps up with the latest to cancer treatments that are going on he's very well informed if you want specifics you need to use the Internet Google

"[Cindy P] reckoned that [the use of basic punctuation and paragraph breaks] imposed an artificial structure on her stream of consciousness."

Cyndi, I don't care how nice you think your doctor is. Lots of people thought Ted Bundy was a nice guy. I want evidence.

By the way I also want to make mention that when I was first diagnosed with my breast cancer I was misdiagnosed by a local well reccomended Boca medical group, Later after my cancer relapsed found out that the patholgists made an error in the type of cancer I had.Instead of chemo they should have put me on a hormone pilii and if I had taken the poison would probably not be posting here now, Thanks the great wisdom of the alliopaths. GOD he intervened for me and put me in better hands 5 years later the tests proved differently.

o
t

JP God Bless You too and stay well!!

Cyndi, I need real evidence. Double-blind studies, monitored case studies, anything! I've seen similar testimonials for snake oil. Actual snake oil. Seriously.

Oh, and when you use the word "allopathic" to describe, you're repeating a lie by the alternative medicine folks. Tell me something, if you had no money, would they have treated you?

Oh, and when you use the word “allopathic” to describe, you’re repeating a lie by the alternative medicine folks.

Well, it's actually "alliopaths" and variations thereof every time Cindy P invokes the term, so maybe it means something entirely different than what we're thinking. Something to do with garlic, mayhap?

He is the smartest and most loving man I have ever met and his wife.

I think Christine means "...the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life (and his wife):.

“alliopaths”
They treat everything with onions.

You may jest, but wait until my paper "The Lady of Shallot: A Case Study" appears in the Journal of Alliopathy.

I have been to HHI with a very serious illness. I loved every minute of it and loved Brian and AnnMarie too. They saved my life, and I learned valuable life skills for being healthy and avoiding chronic disease. Why is everyone so eager to vilify them when they legitimately help so many people?! Their methods may be unconventional in America, but they are quite main stream in other countries- like Germany for example.
I wish them only the best for continuing to help people.
Lighten up, people.

What would that serious illness be? How did the Clements help you. Details, people! Details. You can't reasonably expect to convince me or my readers without a lot more detail.

Yes that's what I meant. They are wonderful people. Grey you keep saying you need evidence. I have blood work to prove how sick I was before going to hhi. I had ongoing test over the last 2 years to show thecresults. what they teach changes lifes. Sometimes it's just to late for people. God made our bodies to heal itself if we give it what it needs. People die and we just want to blame someone for it.

What was your illness? What blood tests showed how sick you were? What treatments did the Clements give you? Details! Your story doesn't allow anyone even to have the slightest idea if the Clements helped you.

What the hell does “enhance the immune system” mean anyway, in physiological terms? How is the degree of enhancement over baseline measurements quantified?

Or, as anybody with autoimmune diseases (including some forms of asthma) could say... 'Why would I want to do that? It's my immune system that's trying to kill me!'

Gray, unfortuneately nothing is free but i have known some people who have gotten scholarships for the treatments at Hyppocrates.On the other hand I have a close friend who spent her life savings on expensive and torturous chemo and after all died a horrible death. UNTIL there is a cure everyone deserves to make their own choice of treatment and quality of life is important. C hemo and radiation is barbaric and destroys cells.

Cyndi, I can also find several people whose cancer went into remission and whose lives were saved by chemo. I need real evidence. They have plenty of money, why are they not performing real studies?

Gray Do you know how much Big Pharma gets for a typical 6 week couse of treatment for chemo? and you disagree with me that it doesn't destroy your cell and what about long term side effects organ damage dementia heart damage to mention a few

Cyndi: It also works, and we have evidence that it does.

and what about the thousands of people some of which I know that I've been mis diagnosed with cancer and treated with chemo and died from the chemo when they never even had cancer

the long term studies don't seem to prove self they prove it adds maybe an extra few years to your life for some maybe they're lucky but those years are very sick years especially for the later stage cancers there's been no evidence to prove that Kino does any good for those people just kill them off quicker no quality of life

Cyndi, where is your evidence for any of this? I'm not just going to take the word of a complete stranger on the internet. If you really have a better means of treating cancer, why aren't you doing studies?

Theres also been studies where tney actually asked the drs themselves that if they had cancer if they would take chemo and not surprisingly the vast majority would refuse.

My dr does these studies has been for years
s

Cyndi, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, but it's unfortunate that you are using that experience to spread a lot of unsubstantiated misinformation. Yes, Chemotherapy does indeed destroy cells. Do you know what "cancer" is made of? There have been some wonderful recent advances in targeted chemotherapy designed to only affect abnormally proliferating cells in certain types of cancer, but these aren't available for every type of cancer. Sometimes killing the cancer cells with a broader spectrum treatment that will also kill some healthy cells is still a better alternative than not treating with chemo.

You're wrong about the success rate of chemotherapy overall. It's unpleasant, no question, but in most cases it gives a better chance of survival than otherwise. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chemotherapy-doesnt-work-not-so-fas…

Where are these studies, Cyndi? And don't ask me to look for myself, you made the claim, so you have to back it up.

"People die and we just want to blame someone for it."

Especially when someone like Clement contributes directly to that death.

@Cyndi - why should we believe you?

Theres also been studies where tney actually asked the drs themselves that if they had cancer if they would take chemo and not surprisingly the vast majority would refuse.

This claim turns out to be bullsh1t:
https://anaximperator.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/do-75-of-doctors-refuse-…

Theres also been studies where tney actually asked the drs themselves that if they had cancer if they would take chemo and not surprisingly the vast majority would refuse.

When your audience knows your talking points better than you do, you're really just wasting everybody's time.

Gray read Dr Moss's book Qusetioning chemotherapy. Has many interesting studies

there’s been no evidence to prove that Kino does any good for those people just kill them off quicker no quality of life

Are we talking Kino the rock band, or Kino as cinema in general? Both have added to my quality of life.

Gray read Dr Moss’s book Qusetioning chemotherapy. Has many interesting studies

That's not how it works. You cite them and explain why they're interesting.

read Dr Moss’s book Qusetioning chemotherapy. Has many interesting studies

Golly, yes, because who better to conduct studies on something as complex as cancer therapies than some guy with a PhD in Classics.

Really???

Are we talking Kino the rock band, or Kino as cinema in general?

Maybe she meant Kibo.

КИНО the rock band is, in fact, highly enjoyable, I think. So is cinema in general. Perhaps she was referring to Keno, which indeed does not add greatly to anybody's quality of life.

it's funny when I hear all of you criticizing doctor c
Clement when none of have beenthrough his program or know anything personally abouth him which christina and I obviously do. maybe you should open your mind a little bit as she had already suggested

The man isn't a Doctor.....

From a former employee:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/brian-clement-and-the-hippocrates-h…

i have known some people who have gotten scholarships for the treatments at Hyppocrates

I don't recall seeing an item for this in the Form 990 that I looked at.

You sure do seem to "know" a lot of "people" who are supposed to serve as support for your random babbling points, though.

Cyndi, if you haven't tried drinking bleach, how do you know it's a bad idea? "Try it for yourself first" does not a convincing argument make.

Cindi P

my doctor is also a cancer scientist as well as a researcher and has done many scientific studies as well as keeps up with the latest to cancer treatments that are going on he’s very well informed if you want specifics you need to use the Internet Google

And how are we supposed to Google this cancer scientist and researcher who has done many scientific studies if we do not know his name?

And how are we supposed to Google this cancer scientist and researcher
You use the Internet Google.

Just the fact that the most annoying content and comments on here are from staunch, anti Hippocrates, with a side of bullying, sadly uneducated in the ways of health, individuals, is proof enough for me to keep my stance on, "real food makes you healthy, bad food is bad for you". Hope that sums it up for those who nitpick pro-Hippocrates comments as your only way of making your point. Always a red flag to see that. There is something in it for you other than health or getting your point across.

Why do people care what others believe in and how they spend their own money to support that? Please go to your doctors and get pumped up with the poisons you so passionately promote and love. Please keep eating and feeding your children the processed crap that the government is telling you is really good for you this week. It's called Natural Selection, so please go Darwin the heck out of yourself so my property taxes can start to fall.

Thanks

Cyndi, if you haven’t tried drinking bleach, how do you know it’s a bad idea?

She may not be aware that it's a bad idea.

Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness...

The Lord our God, in his divine wisdom delivered unto Cyndi the great healer Dr. Brian Clement. Cyndi is a truly special snowflake to have received His dispensation, since He allowed Makayla Sault to die despite her faithful prayers, and He hath allowed the Devils of Big Pharma to wantonly break His commandments, without raining fire and brimstone down upon them, and sending them to the Hell in which they belong. Saved by a hypocritical asshole, she must be very proud.

Pure food? Common sense? Louis Pasteur.
Hey! Germs are organic! So's dirt! And feces. Dina prolly don't know how many folks worldwide still gotta dine-a on food contaminated with sh!t. But keep those chemicals away! They're not natural!

You know what our ancestors knew that people living in industrialized civilization have forgotten? Nature wants to kill them.

Speaking of death. Orac, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't deaths in actual hospitals matter of public record? Do we not have precise figures on how many cancer patients pass at any given point after beginning chemo or any other sbm treatment?

What are the survival stats for people who forgo sbm for 'wellness education' and wheatgrass diets at HHI? Could it be we don't know because the true humanitarian smartest and most loving man anyone has ever met and his wife slough off the dying guests that love them oh so much to hidden back rooms, and them spirit them out of HHI altogether in the middle of the night before they kick the bucket?

The Clements have a reported income of over $1 million/year and Lord knows how much more under the table or cooked through the books. They murder people for money. Whether 'Cyndi', 'chrstine', 'Dina', and 'Nan' are real people or sock puppets, whoever places endorsements of HHI in a public forum is pimping for stone cold killers. I'f I'm the West Palm DA, at the next unnecessary death of an HHI 'guest' I issue arrest warrants for all of them for Accessory to Murder.

Forget the absence of scientific evidence that natural cures work. Give me subpoena power and I'll get a mountain of legal evidence that Brian and AnnaMarie Clement have known for years that the sh!t they peddle at HHI doesn't work, that they know their 'wellness students' routinely go to premature deaths at their hands, and they do.not.care.

The apologists belong in jail. They had better pray there is not a just God, for if there was, their immortal souls would surely burn in Hell.

my doctor is also a cancer scientist as well as a researcher and has done many scientific studies as well as keeps up with the latest to cancer treatments that are going on he’s very well informed if you want specifics you need to use the Internet Google

Your doctor wouldn't happen to be Stanislaw Burzynski, would he?

Hmmm. It would appear that someone posted this to a Facebook group or other discussion forum friendly to Brian Clements. Perhaps these fans of HHI would do me a favor and answer me this:

Where is Brian Clement's survival data? All good cancer centers and clinics keep survival data. So where is Clement's? And what is his survival rate for various cancers at various stages? I'll wait.

Their methods may be unconventional in America, but they are quite main stream in other countries- like Germany for example

Germans have some weird traditions -- Spätzle, for instance -- but I am fairly sure that

blowing a long alpenhorn on the feet of a guest at the centre [...] removing “toxins”

is not mainstream... even in darkest Franconia.

Just the fact that the most annoying content and comments on here are from staunch, anti Hippocrates, with a side of bullying,

"Bullying"? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Here's a hint. Nobody here is forcing you to read. You showed up to defend your hero in the comments of a post that was very critical of him. Then you whine about "bullying" when the regulars here quite correctly take apart the claims and arguments of Clement apologists.

Of course, as pointed out in some stories I've seen people with actual knowledge are afraid to speak out against Clements because they know they'll be sued. Now there's bullying.

Why do people care what others believe in and how they spend their own money to support that?

*koff*MakaylaSault*koff*

Germans have some weird traditions — Spätzle, for instance —

Dude, Spätzle are awesome, although I know them as nokedli. There is nothing better as an accompaniment to pörkölt, or chicken paprikash for that matter.

BTW, is it just me, or are Brian and Anna Maria really just not the healthiest-looking people? And what's with the dye job on his pompadour?

Orac: "Hmmm. It would appear that someone posted this to a Facebook group or other discussion forum friendly to Brian Clements."

(slightly off topic)

Well, at least they weren't all from the same IP address, like what has happened in this thread:
http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk/2015/01/be-reasonable-episode-025-…

About half are from one IP address, and it turned into comedy gold on their Inkredulous podcast.

@Candace
What makes you think that we don't eat real food? You've never even met me.

BTW, is it just me, or are Brian and Anna Maria really just not the healthiest-looking people? And what’s with the dye job on his pompadour?

Horrible facial hair, too. Actually, the dye job comment reminds me of a certain alt-med maven, one of my mom's Jehovah's Witness "sisters" - her hair was bleached and chemically altered to the point where it looked like ramen noodles. Not particularly "natural."

She encouraged my mom to do some sort of "cleanse," within several days of which she became extremely ill. She literally looked green, and was complaining of severe abdominal pain, which, if you know many Norwegian-Americans, means something is really wrong. She ended up in the ER in the middle of the night for an emergency appendectomy, almost too late.

Correlation is not causation, I suppose, but still. My childhood after the death of my father was bad enough, but I shudder to think what things might have been like if I had lost both parents in the space of two years or so.

I have to admit, being uneducated in the ways of health and all, I found the revelation that "bad food is bad for you" deeply profound and enlightening.

As such, I don't care a whit if Candace gets a cancer and spends her last dime on 'real food' at HHI, not that my property taxes will go down or anything, but just because there will be one less scumbucket voting for anti-education politicians on the basis of their freakin' property taxes.

See, being somewhat educated in the ways of politics and history, I know Social Darwinism when I see it. I bet Candace just hates big guvment for taxing the property her mum and dad EARNED by being BETTER than the riff-raff to mess with Darwin by paying for the riff-raffs kids to get just a bit of education in the NYC public schools. Let 'em make it on their own! Natural Selection!

I'm sure if you air-dropped Candace into the rain-forest of the Amazon head-waters, she'd bee-line for the pure healthy food, and with her Darwinian superiority be Queen of the Jungle in no time!

I assume

Kewl, it used to be a mullet.

Being largely of German descent myself, I have the good sense to stay away from most Germanic food not named 'Bratwurst'.

So for concurrence with "Germans have some weird traditions", I have to go with The Krampus.

And while I doubt alpenhorns have any Alt-Med value, I do wonder if there's a clinic somewhere in Bavaria that treats cancer by having The Krampus scare the bejeebers out of the malignant cells.

"...Ostereich ist auch ein land. Man nennt Ostereich auch ein land."
7th grade German primer, p. 1.

And what’s with the dye job on his pompadour?

Perhaps Clement is moonlighting as a televangelist.

He says he does not dye his hair on Youtube. Only his hairdresser knows for sure...

Cyndi and Christine keep referring to Brian Clement as "dr", even though this post explicitly states that the state of Florida has told Mr.Clement to stop practicing medicine. He's not a doctor. Not even a naturopath. He is a nutrition consultant with a degree from a degree mill off some small island.

I remain extremely.disppointed that the U.S. press has not picked up this story.

he does not dye his hair on Youtube

There are probably no end of Youtubers who do.

re Clement's bad hair:

OK, he started out with medium brown hair ( the mullet photo) so it's possible that as it became grey, he went lighter because it's easier to blend in blonde with white/ grey.( Not sure if he dyed the facial hair/ probably not). However when it grows out a bit, there are now 3 shades instead of two. Lovely.
The only way to fix this is an intricate hair-painting process that blends in several light shades with the white to camouflage it. Or a flat, deadly shade without tonality that needs weekly maintenance.

He earns lots of money so I don't know why he accepts such shoddy workmanship.

Or he could shave his head. That's what I do. (Not that I'm going gray.)

Or he could shave his head.
I tried that once, but looked too much like a Prussian general, and people kept asking when I was going to invade Poland.

I did get mistaken for somebody I definitely am not a few times while traveling in Poland. I remember sitting in a bar at 4 or 5 in the morning with some friends, and some skinhead came in and yelled "Heil Hitler" at me, and I first had to suppress an urge to punch him in the face, but I did manage to run him out.

Gray I didnt say anything about my Drs diet and it is not raw food actually more ketogenic, what I did say is he combines the best of alternative medicines to boost the immune system as well as smarter tradtional medicine.

Cyndi, can you explain to me exactly what the term "boost" translates to here, in terms of human physiology and immunology, and how one can reliably distinguish between a 'boosted' immune system and one in need of boosting?

If you want specifics you need to use the Internet Google

I very much do want specifics--can you provide me your doctor's name, so I can use the internet and search pubmed for the publications where he's published the results of those many scientific studies you say he's done?

BTW, you do realize that the diet--ketogenic or otherwise--that your doctor has put you on is itself an allopathic treatment by definition? Samuel Hahnemann coined the term to refer to all medical treatments other than homeopathy.

And what about the thousands of people some of which I know that I’ve been mis diagnosed with cancer and treated with chemo and died from the chemo when they never even had cancer

Certainly if they;ve been misdiagnosed chemo and radiation would be inappropriate treatments--but that's a failure on the part of the diagnosing physician: it doesn't argue that chemo and radiation aren't effective or appropriate treatments for accurately diagnosed cancers. diagnosis.

the long term studies don’t seem to prove self they prove it adds maybe an extra few years to your life for some

and

heres also been studies where tney actually asked the drs themselves that if they had cancer if they would take chemo and not surprisingly the vast majority would refuse.

Citations needed: which studies are you referring to in the above, Cyndi? Be specific.

Why do people care what others believe in and how they spend their own money to support that?

Well, in this case I care because it's led to the otherwise avoidable death of one young women and will most likely lead to the otherwise avoidable death of another. Is that not sufficient reason for concern in your view?

They saved my life, and I learned valuable life skills for being healthy and avoiding chronic disease.

Nan, how has it been factually established that whatever interventions you received at the HHI you believe saved your life actually did save your life? It is on some basis other than a post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy, I trust?

@Sadmar #24

Yes, yours is a fuller explication of what strongly appears -- I prefer obviously-- to be going on. Florida has a long tradition of this sort of stuff.

Well,something's making his hair look like shite. If it isn't dye it must be all that raw food.

I don't think most people have a problem with a private business that caters to individuals who have the money to spend on a "Health Spa". I'm all for relaxation, learning about good nutrition, taking supplements, exercising, and meditation. I believe all these things can be excellent for a person's overall heath and well being. If Clement and his wife were honest about their limitations on what they can offer the seriously ill, like cancer patients, there wouldn't be a problem. The real issue is Clement and his wife are preying on desperate people. People who often are selling possessions and spending their life savings to go to Hippocrates for "treatment". Giving the seriously and/or terminally ill hope based on flat out lies. To those who enjoyed and learnt something during their time with Clement, good for you! But there is a difference between those who go to Hippocrates for a health holiday, than those who are terminally ill and spending every last cent believing they can be cured. Watch the most recent news story http://www.wptv.com/news/local-news/investigations/woman-speaks-out-abo… My guess is if I called Clement today, and told him I wanted to spend some time in the sun and learn about ways I could improve my overall health or asked him for help to treat my Stage 4 cancer, Clement and Hippocrates would be the solution. Of course the good Doctor could only help if I paid upfront and in cash.

Cristine

God made our bodies to heal itself if we give it what it needs.

Which god? Some of us must have bodies made by Loki or Shiva. And Yaweh's incompetence at design is infamous.

If your doctor is so great, what's his name? I'm sick of chemotherapy for my lymphatic blastoma, I'm literally dieing and would like his consult. Cyndi? Please guide me to proper treatment? "western medicine" and "BIG PHARMA" are trying to kill me.

The notion that "Big Pharma" is out to kill people is patently absurd. Obviously, we can debate the inherent evils of a for-profit drug market, but to assume the oncologists themselves are largely either pawns of "big Pharma" or worse, Coconspirators, defies belief.

I wrote a medical reporter at the NY Times and asked why the American media hadn't touched this story. She said they are not "health police" and they can't go after all the unscrupulous doctors and experts. Ok, but I mean, this one is preying on children. I would think that warrants a mention.

This story popped up out of nowhere yesterday.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/makayla-sault-s-parents-speak-out-abo…

Makayla's Mom is quoted as saying:

"Sault said Makayla didn't go to the Florida spa for cancer treatment, but to try out a new diet that might boost her immune system. As well, Sault said, Makayla got to relax and be a kid again, soaking up the sun and swimming in the ocean."

Maybe just coincidence but, I was struck by the timing, i.e., a couple of days after the Clement "cease and desist" story broke.

Interview with daughter of Florida women who's mother went to Clement 11 yrs ago after her breast cancer returned for a 2nd time. She disregarded her Oncologists instructions to have surgery. She followed Clements advice. She died a year later.
http://www.wptv.com/news/local-news/investigations/woman-speaks-out-abo…

Which god? Some of us must have bodies made by Loki or Shiva

The 'trickster god' theory explains a great deal about human physiology. The vagus nerve for a start.

Ironically, the ad software is now delivering ads for Hippocrates on this site.

Compare and contrast (as one of my prof's used to word exam questions) Sault's statement in the article DGR cites at 123 to the previous assertions that Makayla died because the brief chemo she received so damaged her that it made it impossible for the quack's process to save her.

Deaths from cancer in 2014 were 585,720 - 99.9999999% DID NOT go to HHI and visit Brian Clement. That is 1,600 people per day entering the Pearly Gates through traditional treatments. Are these failures? What do we say about these deaths? Conservative costs at $50,000 per death = nearly $30 Billion just for the cancer pass code to enter Heaven:) Estimated treatment costs surged in 2014 above between $ 127 Billion to $230 Billion - WOW - a lot of support for the traditional medical system system. Since 1910, the truth is that no cause or cure for a chronic disease has been found. One? Two? No (this does not include infectious disease such as smallpox or polio). There is a lot of support to keep jobs, new cars, huge houses, wonderful lifestyles for all of those involved in this system - your doctors, my doctors, our doctors. The American cancer society is a $1 Billion dollar operation alone - raising what? Over $10 Billion the past 10 years? Is there good done her? Do these odds mitigate and excuse the deaths of so many?

I strongly support HHI. I witnessed my father extend his life by 25 years because he went alternative and changed his eating habits, lifestyle and beliefs. I want my choice protected as an American to choose my healthcare. Go to the death ward at a hospital and interview people dying - most are dying for their belief systems. We all pick a hill and choose to die on it - or we change and allow others freedom of choice. I want that freedom to go to HHI. Don't mess with my hill - I won't mess with yours. Please keep keep this entire matter in perspective. I strongly support HHI and the monetary support that the Institute and Brian and everyone else receive.

Stories and testimonials are the only way to express successes at Hippocrates - because to do otherwise is high risk.

I encourage the detractors to investigate the high numbers of American deaths in 2014 - and get the real story behind the beliefs and assumptions and who benefits and controls
.

Rudy, do you know how much that Hippocrates makes a year? Why is none of that devoted to research? Do you know how much insurance companies and governments pay out to cancer patients? Did you think that they might have real financial incentive to make cancer less expensive? Why is it conspiracy theorists never consider the people who would need to be aware of the conspiracy and who would only benefit by exposing it?

Stories and testimonials are the only way to express successes at Hippocrates – because to do otherwise is high risk.

Yes, I imagine that actual data could be quite problematic.

Wait, I thought they didn't practice medicine at HHI - you know, because it isn't a health care facility, its a Spa?

@rudhi lenardi

Deaths from cancer in 2014 were 585,720 – 99.9999999% DID NOT go to HHI

Deaths from transportation accidents in 2012 were 33,561. 100% were not on flying carpets.

Stories and testimonials are the only way to express successes at Hippocrates

Funny that. Stories and testimonials are the only way to express success of flying carpets as well. Would you like to purchase one?

I encourage the detractors to investigate the high numbers of American deaths in 2014

I encourage the detractors to investigate the high numbers of American deaths from automobiles. Then they should send me lots of money for carpets. Perhaps I can build a nice spa of my own.

investigate the high numbers of American deaths in 2014

Shockingly, the mortality rate of being American approaches 100%.

Rudhi Lenardi's comment is just too precious for me to pass up:

http://moms4pop.org/toxic-halogens-called-salts-hidden-behind-the-ge-no…

The business about evil chlorine displacing beloved iodine is particularly amusing (in a sort of twisted way) considering that a very long time ago a very successful treatment for wide-spread iodine deficiency was developed: the addition of a small amount an iodine salt to an evil chloride salt - the one we know simply as salt.
But then they're so profoundly ignorant that they think halogens are called salts.
I wonder how they feel about the WHO formula for oral rehydration salts, what with its TWO chloride salts AND a nasty citrate salt to boot. They probably dismiss the fact that it save a couple of million infants from death annually as a total fabrication.

I have to say I find nothing useful in your information except for bad mouthing people who have an alternative method to what you believe in. Your such a hardcore scientist that you have no room for even exploring new possibilities. At the end of the day people have choices and no choice is right or wrong but it does have consequences. An alternative lifestyle is a choice and so is chemotherapy/radiation/surgery - all of them have consequences. As long as the person knows and is aware of the consequences of their decision then it doesn't matter.

Just to add this - You'd have to be an idiot to think that changing your lifestyle for the better has no influence to a condition - of course it does. At the end of the day my personal choice would be to die feeling good and comfortable over needing to be numbed of the pain and discomfort of the drugs that I am fed. Die well, die happy and in a way that I choose and no one else.

At the end of the day to say that Brian Clements is a quack is easy to say but the reason he has been around for 30 years is because he has clearly had some impacts on peoples lives for the better. Everyone I know who has been there has loved it and has come out in a better state of health than before they went in so in my mind thats progress and worth something. To carry out a study and try to prove anything takes massive investment and clinical trials - when the ROI is likely to be pretty LOW - right! So it will never happen.

I'd say write something that actually has genuine substance put your science brain to good use and provide some quality reports of some of your methods generating not just results of people living a full life (after cancer + their treatment) but also a happier life where they genuinely feel better.

Have you actually tried the raw vegan lifestyle - any sceptic who writes about something should actually experiment with the topics he writes about so he writes a decent article that has substance rather than one that is full of judgements and accusations.

Good luck to you buddy

I wrote that Brian Clement is a quack because I believe Brian Clement is a quack. There is nothing that he does that has any good evidence supporting the contention that it can treat cancer. Thanks to him, an 11-year-old girl who might have been saved is now dead. No, calling him a quack is too kind.

Your such a hardcore scientist that you have no room for even exploring new possibilities.

I, for one, am entirely open to the possibilities of stripping him and his wife of their fraudulent 501(c)(3) status and state prosecution for practicing medicine without a license.

Those would be new.

I wish people would stop saying "no choice is right or wrong" when they clearly believe that the choice to criticize quacks and identify nonsense is wrong.

When the choice is between saving a child's life and letting that child die quickly and in pain, asserting that "no choice is right or wrong" mocks the concepts of "right" and "wrong."

The Toronto Star has a fresh story up.

An investigator at Florida’s Department of Health went undercover and posed as a patient after getting a complaint that two aboriginal girls from the Hamilton area had quit chemotherapy and gone to Hippocrates Health Institute for cancer treatment.

This site is sure full of a lot of mis information & hate. Also didn't the term quackery go out of style in the 80's? The girl who died,didn't even die of her leukemia which was in remission at the time, she did pass from the damage done from chemotherapy. I do not care what any doctor claims, chemotherapy is toxic & if we started holding oncologists who kill patients daily accountable for there actions, the business of cancer would decline. Now I love modern medicine & would be paralyzed without the spinal fusion surgery I had, but nobody here can defend chemotherapy in any shape or form.

This place is AMAZiNG!!! I have been treated there on several occassions and hae received nothing but the upmost care and always leave feeling better and revived. Im sorry that most people do not understand the old/new concepts of natural self-healing. There is too much hatred. And congrats to the author of this article- you can copy AND paste! Im sure that took a lot of talent and effort.

Like injecting people with poison and calling that a cure is not quackery? If science says the way to cure people is to poison them ...then I guess I choose quackery. People should have the freedom to chose whatever treatment they want. Western science has done little to solve the cancer crisis. People are dying in epidemic proportions yet we act as if what we are doing is successful. People do not usually end up at HI until all hope is lost and your told to go home and die. Western medicine is failing people in more ways than one. And if you want to talk about profiting from death...look at big pharma. HI is a speck of sand compared to how the pharma industry is harming people. But since they do it with FDA approval I guess its okay.

Some one needs to do their own statistics...since when did chemo and radiation cure cancer?....Did any health profession claim to actually cure it or did they say a good healthy body could be equipped to stand a great chance of fighting it off?..Stop making good honest people trying to help others look like goats...their methods are far more curable than modern medicine is and that's the facts you need to admit to.

Stop making good honest people trying to help others look like goats…their methods are far more curable than modern medicine is and that’s the facts you need to admit to.

Angie seems to be some sort of one-size-fits-all apologist for cancer quacks and scammers. First Gerson, now the doppelgänger of a used-car salesman.

"nobody here can defend chemotherapy in any shape or form."

I'll pass that along to my brother Steve. Amazing that he's still walking around at age 52 after all the "poison" he had to take when he was a teenager.

If this book of him is quackery http://www.amazon.com/Supplements-Exposed-Vitamins-Minerals-Effects/dp/… then you do not know anything who Brian is.

Oké, het urns maybe a lot off money so does many others and are they also quackers? What's the problem? Sorry orca but you do not now sh*t what you’re talking about!

Kevin z.: "Sorry orca but you do not now sh*t what you’re talking about!"

Which particular killer whale are you addressing?

Two girls died of a cancer that kills 30% of children who take chemo, but it's Clement's fault they fell into that statistic? He's not God, some people WILL die no matter the treatment.

Those gung-ho about chemo should look into it more.

Wow. The healing that goes on at Hippocrates is ANYTHING BUT mumbo jumbo. Using the Chi detox foot bath to discredit Dr. Clement's work is beyond a low blow. Quite frankly------I'd rather do a thousand detox foot baths, than do CHEMO---which is the ULTIMATE form of QUACKERY. Using poison to fight poison? Poisoning the body with chemicals and radiation to help it "HEAL"?? Check the true cancer industry statistics-----most people who "Survive" Cancer, are often stricken again in less than 5 years. Many, if not most, will die. What DR. Clements teaches mainly, is to rely on a pure, organic, diet consisting of a variety of freshly grown vegetables, not too many fruits (since Cancer feeds on sugar) limited whole grains, seeds, sprouts and wheatgrass. Who out there can tell me that is not THE healthiest way to live?? When you get sick, does the Doctor say "Eat more meat? Eat more candy? Microwave your food a little more to destroy even more of its enzymes? Cook your food, literally to death? Have some more pasteurized, processed, preserved foods? NO. If he is a real doctor, and not someone as ignorant as the idiot who wrote this article, he/she would say "EAT MORE VEGETABLES". Get more exercise, less stress, drink plenty of good, clean preferably filtered water. I myself have spent many years going to Hippocrates. What they teach there is mainly to EAT WELL, Like the ACTUAL Father of Medicine himself, Hippocrates, said: "Let thy medicine be thy food". 5 years ago my mother was dying. She had cancer, psoriasis over 75% of her body, bad heart problems, Lyme's disease, cysts on her thyroid, rheumatoid arthritis, and severe memory problems which suggested possible onset of Alzheimer's. The "BEST" doctors in the world (NYC, Swizerland, Germany, etc) could not help her. Most told her she would die without Chemo. I said HELL NO. I took care of her myself, switched her to an all organic, plant-based diet, found her some treatments to alleviate stress, etc. And saw that this helped her a great deal. But it was overwhelming for me. So I took her to Hippocrates, where she stayed for 3 months. EVERY SINGLE Ailment she had began to disappear and heal. After just 3 weeks, her transformation was mind-blowing. My brother came down there after 3 weeks to join us, and hadn't seen her yet. He was in complete shock when he saw her. She was riding a bike around the campus!!!! I had to wheel her into Hippocrates in a wheelchair in the beginning!!!! She is now 75 years old, and I have never seen her radiate more health. Those "Incredibly educated" doctors were shocked and humbled when they saw her. The only reason people persecute Dr Clements, is because they have fallen for this bogus system of ours, which by the way----look around you-------are people sick? Or are they really getting better? Are people dying of cancer left and right or what??? It is depressing to think how many people could be healed like my mother, but being that there are false advertisers out there, like YOU, misinformed writer of this article------and the fact that there are very few places like Hippocrates in the US. Why you ask?? Because they all have to FLEE to Mexico because our moronic AMA, FDA, and government are all controlled by giant corporate pharmaceutical companies, the likes of Monsanto, the cancer Industry, etc.
Boo. I mean, just BOO. Keeping people in the dark like this----it's bloody criminal. Leave Dr. Clements and his wife alone. They bust their ass to help people like my mother, and thank God, is all I can say. I will take the things he offers at his clinic ANY day over Radiation. I mean, LOL. Really. Just LOL.

Oh, I'd also like to add----the reason why there are not more "REAL DOCTORS" at Hippocrates, and also why it has to be listed as a "Private Spa"?? Well, a duuuuhhh. Doctors make WAY MORE MONEY out in the "Real" World. How"? Keeping people sick and on "legal" drugs!!! That's how. I'm not saying all of them do it on purpose. They are just making BANK, and don't know any better. And they are trapped in this system of inflated health insurance. Dr. Clements isn't as wealthy as most doctors you and I know. Also, as our medical industry is largely funded and supported by the big corporations that run this country------most medical students learn almost ZILCH about real nutrition, and its power to heal. The worst is "Specialists". Most have no understanding about how the body works, all the organs work together as a machine. When my mother was so ill------she also had horrible kidney stones, I forgot to mention------we went to a kidney "Specialist". He knew nothing about how to kidney is directly related to the function of the heart. He knew nothing about the gall bladder. It was absurd. All the money we spent on the "Best" doctors in the world? A gazillion times more than what we spent for 3 months at Hippocrates. The FDA is constantly badgering Hippocrates and criticizing them, and fining them. Why, I'd like to ask, are they not fining hospitals for feeding sick people JELLO??? Canned fruits? Coffee? Dairy? Sugar??? I lost my father to the conventional system. How is every hospital in the country not fined/critiqued/shut down?!!!!! So what if Dr Clements offers people vitamins in his little store?? So WHAT??? Vitamins are a thousand times better than serving my father frickin' JELLO at Mt Sinai hospital in New York City. It's a thousand times better than taking all the pills all the doctors prescribed for my poor father, who died in My Sinai Hospital in severe agony. Under the care of one of the most "highly esteemed and best doctors" at Mt Sinai. UGH. I can't believe how brainwashed people are by the mainstream system. It's so incredibly sad.

*** They (Hippocrates) have to label themselves as a "Spa" because the FDA won't allow them even the DISCUSSION that they are actually helping people to heal. They aren't allowed (in this free country of ours) to operate as a medical clinic. The best thing to happen, would be MORE places like Hippocrates would open. In every state in the USA. And open as a proper clinic. With proper doctors. And by "Proper", I mean doctors who really KNOW about nutrition. Take a look at Sanoviv, in Mexico. Started by an American microbiologist. The only way he could open his clinic was by doing it in Mexico. Why? Ask the FDA. I went there too. Saw some amazing healing happen there too. Some pretty amazing stuff. Hardly anything like it here in the US. We should all ask ourselves why.

What have you got against jello? It's good for patients after surgery until bowel function returns, and it makes a good early warning system for earthquakes.

"most medical students learn almost ZILCH about real nutrition"

If by "real nutrition" you mean the sort of stuff promoted at quack clinics, then yes, physicians in training don't study it.

"Dr. Clements isn’t as wealthy as most doctors you and I know."

I know that the vast majority of physicians don't have million-dollar incomes.

and it makes a good early warning system for earthquakes.

Or the proximity of velociraptors.

Who out there can tell me that is not THE healthiest way to live??

I will.

You got any data to back up anything you said?

"Quite frankly——I’d rather do a thousand detox foot baths, than do CHEMO—which is the ULTIMATE form of QUACKERY."

Antonio, those detox foot baths have never cured any cancer. That painful lump on your small toe was a corn.

If you're a paid shill for Clements, he should demand his money back.

- 20 points for your run-on paragraphs.

- 20 points for ALL CAPS

- 70 points for your steaming pile of bullsh!t content

You owe us 10 points for reading your drivel, Antonio

The “BEST” doctors in the world (NYC, Swizerland, Germany, etc) could not help her.

Min I ask a personal question? How much money does you and your mother have in your bank account?

Alain

They (Hippocrates) have to label themselves as a “Spa” because the FDA won’t allow them even the DISCUSSION that they are actually helping people to heal.

Antonia, you are pathetically, hopelessly confused. What on earth would the FDA have to do with anything? The Clements' sprawling fraud enterprise is self-labeled in the state of Florida, in the guise of both a bogus nonprofit and a Delaware for-profit, as a Massage Establishment:

h_tps://appsmqa.doh.state.fl.us/irm00praes/prasindi.asp?LicId=251&ProfNBR=1402&Lookup=TRUE

Oh, and the Florida DOH has crapped the fυck out, so you could have spared everyone the pain of trying to parse your blocks of wall-'o'-text idiocy ("Cancer feeds on sugar") and sorry testimonial pitch.

Happily, the three civil suits are alive and well, and you can rest assured that the state AG remains as free as a bird to pursue real criminal charges if the revealed facts prove as damning as the allegations.

Fun fact: Two are real whistleblower actions, and the third is pretty damned close.

And by “Proper”, I mean doctors who really KNOW about nutrition. Take a look at Sanoviv, in Mexico.

OK.

Started by an American microbiologist.

Behold, Myron Wentz.

The only way he could open his clinic was by doing it in Mexico. Why?

I dunno, criminal liability issues? Maybe it's like his renouncing his U.S. citizenship to avoid taxes.

Classy operation that Wentz set up in Usana. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Antonia.

Anyway, back on topic, the currently pending cases appear to include, at a minimum (Palm Beach County),

2014CA002611 (Pugh v. HHI)
2014CA002614 (Biomechanical Trauma Associates v. HHI)
2014CA002646 (Forte v. HHI)
2014CA014551 (Simko v. HHI)
2014CA014378 (Flores v. HHI)

Video depositions of the defendant(s) in the last one are scheduled for May 6 and 20 if I'm reading the cryptic docket correctly. In the other direction, there's 2014CA011400 (HHI v. Flores).

HHI has also been the defendant in three federal suits in the Southern District of Florida, in 2003, 2009, and 2011, which may be worth a PACER lookup in a couple of weeks. The first was settled, and I have nothing on the other two.

Who out there can tell me that is not THE healthiest way to live??

Me. It needs more black pudding and akvavit.

So glad to hear this ridiculous case was dismissed. Dr. Clement has saved so many lives with his work.....it's the majority of traditional doctors that should be investigated...

Ok.......traditional medicine has so much to say about holistic medicine. I for one am a big fan of alternative. To say that traditional medicine does not give false hope by their poisons of chemo n radiation that not only dominish quality of life but in many cases quantity of life is absurd!!! Alternative medicine has been around forever w tons of less side effects!!! The pharmaceutical companies done want it cause it diminishes their trillion dollar business. Traditional Healthcare costs consumers billions n billions of dollars not to mention what insurance companies pay. The fact that insurance companies won't pay for alternative treatments is what prohibits so many people from having that option. $18000 to treat a cancer patient is less than 1 round of chemo radiation........and the fact that this article sited how much these people make is absurd...... you show me one traditional clinic director that makes less than a million dollars a year n I will show you the Boones of like Idaho!! I don't know enough about the clinic to say that "Star" had credibility but I do know this..... I have worked with enuf hospice patients to see what traditional medicines offer and sign me up for any possible option to that outcome. Whether it be grass seed enemas to chelation.......my quality of life is so much more important than my quantity of life!!!

I found myself wondering who is it exactly that is doing the speaking here. Doing the hating towards something they obviously discount. Can anyone prove GOD exists? Some people live as if it is true for them. Are they wrong and others right? What the mind believes is where the energy will flow. I have experienced Hippocrates and I can say that I never felt afraid, talked down to, told I know nothing about my own body, I can go on but I won't. It works for me. It is sad when anyone dies and especially painful for those that didn't have many years of life to begin with. I have three family members die young to cancer. One brother died from the radiation. My mother the chemo. They died as they lived believing that something/someone outside of themselves knew their body better than they did. What I want to say to you is that In nine weeks I saw miracles there. Call me incompetent, but you know nothing of me. Probably no more then you know of Dr. Clement. I hear the anger in your words, the attack. Not very healthy. I am starting to think that you have a financial stake in the "traditional" cancer industry.

This futile attack is just more confirmation that there is a mass of big pharma shills...paid to troll the net...saturating forums with dysfunctional dis-info...catering to the disillusioned, matrix mindset. Regardless of Brian Clements credentials, the real science of optimal nutrition, lifestyle and it's effects are ALL OVER the internet. The term "disease"is simply "dis-ease" of the body temple that seeks the comfort of Natural Law. The symptom of cancer is fueled by an acidic, cooked diet, period. Alkaline, uncooked foods predominately generate healing, detoxification and regeneration. Most will find a generic, temporary "balance" by migrating to the toxic alkaloids; ie, coffee, nicotine, soda...rather than incorporate the replacement of more living, alkaline foods. The body is intelligent and CREATES cancer as a protective, defense mechanism to gather incompletely metabolized protein invaders from the bloodstream...if not, people would die from asphyxiation. (do your own research) As a result, nearly everyone in the chemically saturated "modern" world has cancer cells in their body. Next, this articles author will probably go after biochemist Dr. T. Colin Campbell, author of "The China Study". Or perhaps he'll start a battle against the ancient, original Hippocrates (the teacher) quote “Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.” Wait...let's just go after the ancient Essene and the book, "The Gospel of Peace-Book 4-The Gift of Life in the Humble Grass". http://www.essene.com/GospelOfPeace/peace4.html While the majority appear to be clueless...the indoctrination of the antipathy to nature will, eventually, become extinct. All low vibrational, ill-intent holds within itself, the seeds of it's own destruction. PEACE

Curious if comments are moderated and/or selectively censored. I don't see my previous comment. If indeed it will appear...then forget this inquiry.

A few things go into the automoderation queue.
First posts from an email address (or if you forgot which one or mistyped yours) posts with swearing and posts with multiple links.

Willow - if you're interested in who writes the blog, you could click on Orac's name where it says "Posted by Orac".

I feel Orac has a right to be angry at the Hippocrates Health Institute. Either it is falsely claiming miraculous results, or it is refusing to share what it knows with the rest of the world. The first would be blatant fraud, while the second would be a level of greed and cynicism that makes one question the essential goodness of humanity.

And I have experienced a variety of evidence-based medical treatments (including surgery, medications, and MRI scans) and not felt talked down to or treated as though I didn't understand my body. Yes, it's important to respect your patients: but it's also important to be able to do what you claim. It's important not just to have a good bedside manner, but to actually respect your patients. That means telling them the truth, even when the truth is "we don't know whether this will work" or "I'm sorry, our treatment isn't appropriate for your condition." (I don't care how good your diabetes treatment is, it's not going to fix a broken leg. Or vice versa.)

This ultimately futile attack is just more confirmation that there is a mass of big pharma shills...paid to troll the net...saturating forums and comment sections with dysfunctional dis-info...catering to the disillusioned, matrix mindset. Regardless of Brian Clements credentials, the real science of optimal nutrition, lifestyle and it's effects are ALL OVER the internet. The term "disease"is simply "dis-ease" of the body temple that seeks the comfort of Natural Law. The symptom of cancer is fueled by an acidic, cooked diet, period. Alkaline, uncooked foods predominately generate healing, detoxification and regeneration. Most will find a generic, temporary "balance" by migrating to the toxic alkaloids; ie, coffee, nicotine, soda...rather than incorporate the replacement of more living, alkaline foods. The body is intelligent and CREATES cancer as a protective, defense mechanism to gather incompletely metabolized protein invaders from the bloodstream...if not, people would die from asphyxiation. (do your own research) As a result, nearly everyone in the chemically saturated "modern" world has cancer cells in their body. Next, this articles author will probably go after biochemist Dr. T. Colin Campbell, author of "The China Study". Or perhaps he'll start a battle against the ancient, original Hippocrates (the teacher) quote “Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.” Wait...let's just go after the ancient Essene and the book, "The Gospel of Peace-Book 4-The Gift of Life in the Humble Grass". While the majority appear to be clueless...the indoctrination of the antipathy to nature will, eventually, become extinct. All low vibrational, ill-intent holds within itself, the seeds of it's own destruction. While he may have shortcomings, it appears Brian Clement is the focus in this equally attacked alternative lifestyle, because he successfully runs one of the best healing spas on the planet. There are plenty of similar, living foods facilities albeit not as large. Ann Wigmore Institutes, Optimum Health Institute and Gabriel Cousins Tree of Life Rejuvenation Center...all of which have the same foundation of educating people to reclaim their vitality and life. PEACE

PEACE = the passive-aggressive version of f*ck you.

This ultimately futile attack is just more confirmation that there is a mass of big pharma shills…paid to troll the net…

Um, "Sunblade," it's you who showed up here over a month late and a lobe short.

The term “disease”is simply “dis-ease” of the body temple that seeks the comfort of Natural Law.

I remain perpetually puzzled that there are people so short on critical thinking skills to think that disease has an origin other than the Old French desaise.

Oh and "The China Study".

If cancer is the bodies way of protecting itself then, presumably, once you have cancer you could switch to uncooked alkaline foods and the cancer would be destroyed by the immune system? Not much point if a protective measure kills you anyway is there? So simple it's genius. The word needs to be spread. Think of the benefit to the world. You would think that all Alternative Health Enthusiasts would want this so I propose a trial. All AHEs who get cancer will report to a genuine oncologist who will do all possible tests and scans to locate type and severity of cancer. All AHEs will then live on an agreed diet as supervised by darksunblade and their miraculous healing process documented by genuine oncologists. After ten years (or the last volunteer AHE is dead) the survival rate can be checked against conventional results for the same types of cancer. Should be quite cheap to do as the only additional costs are regular scans and tests on the AHEs.

darksunblade - I was wondering how you know the following?

- That people posting here are "big pharma shills…paid to troll the net"
- "The symptom of cancer is fueled by an acidic, cooked diet, period"
- "Alkaline, uncooked foods predominately generate healing, detoxification and regeneration."
- "The body is intelligent"

Could you please describe the evidence for any of those statements?

Also, you state that "[Brian Clement] successfully runs one of the best healing spas on the planet."
- How do you define a "healing spa"?
- What are the measures of effectiveness of a healing spa?
- How do you determine which are the best?

Thanks.

Reads post finally out from under automoderation.

Does anyone read before posting. Here I was hoping for a new screed but see the same old talking points Orac has allowed to be posted from the day they powered up his chips.

"PEACE = the passive-aggressive version of f*ck you."

Along with "Namaste".

"do your own research" = "look around the Internet and you'll find others spouting similar craziness"

this is an interesting article on HHI. I've contacted them in the past regarding my girlfriends stage 4 ovarian cancer, back in 2011. I did not take her there because of the cost but not because of their practices. I am going to add my comments based on my experiences. On December 2011, my girlfriend was given 3 - 4 months to live and was advised to contact hospice. They (doctors from Orlando Regional Medical Center and Florida Hospital) stated there was nothing else which could be done and removing her ovaries may help but she also had a brain tumor. I prayed for God to please give me direction on how to proceed at this point. From doing research I know many cancer patients which undergo conventional western protocols (chemo, radiation) don't have a high success rate past a 5 year span (cancertutor.com, Healing Cancer from the Inside Out). Within 2 days a friend, whom I have not spoken to in months, contacted me and mentioned to me his mother was able to have his grandfathers cancer with herbs and shark cartilage. I believed in natural healing but I was so skeptical that a medical doctor, whom we normally look to as a sort of god, with 8 years of medical school cannot heal. My girlfriend decided she wanted to do it naturally so we ordered the 7-herbs and shark cartilage from Daniel Chapter One. 3 months later, after going to a medical doctor for an exam, she was informed her brain tumor shrunk from the size of a pea to the size of a ball point pen. I was amazed and jus thanked God for leading me in the right direction. I think we first have to realize, that God is the creator of life and also the taker of life. If it's our time to go, there is no natural medicine which will save us. Natural medicine works because it has been used for centuries. Four of the herbs used in the formula are the ones used by Nurse Cassie from Canada decades ago when she helped cure numerous patients which were deemed terminally ill and not able to be helped with conventional medicine. But we don't see the corporately owned media discussing this. The pharmaceutical industry does not want their profits to be interfered with. I pray these CEO's stop preying on innocent victims with their deceptive ways and stop influencing politicians which pass laws prohibiting citizens making a choice on what method of healing they choose. I am a military veteran, and to think that I fought overseas to promote so-called democracy, only to return back to the U.S.A and see our own rights being infringed upon. Thank you and I pray all the cancer patients suffering get the necessary hope they need.
(P.S. Daniel Chapter One has been targeted by the FTC and attempting to shut them down, not because there were any complaints from customers, but because representatives from the pharmaceutical industry are pushing for it.)
God Bless you all.

Ray - first, let me say I'm thankful that your girlfriend is doing better (I'm assuming when you say "the size of a ballpoint pen" you mean the ball in the point, not the entire pen).

That said, the best evidence that the various herbs and shark cartilage do any good would be for them to be studied in a larger setting. As you're doubtless aware, individual cases left untreated can proceed in a variety of ways. People can get better and worse, and it is very easy to credit whatever you've done recently to explain variations in the course of the disease.

If you have some data showing survival rates of this regimen vs. standard care or no treatment, please share.

By the way, there are a lot of sharks caught, their fins chopped off, and the sharks dropped back into the sea. This has been blamed for a serious decrease in shark populations. I would hope the cartilage you used was not harvested in this way.

You are naive if not silly because if you beleive that they will close this health center is not a lot of people on the go with health problems and hopes it up in a very short time and in addition they teach us which makes the body sick

Seems to me there are alot of people who simply have an OPINION and nothing else. Unless you have personally gone to HHI and experienced it, I think you need to shut up. I was very ill with Lyme Fisease

Sure looks like alot of folks on here are offering off the cuff opinions and nothing else. Unless you have gone to HHI and experienced what they do there, you best shut up. It is very easy to criticize anonymously. I have been to HHI twice and what they did for me and many others in my group was close to miraculous. I had suffered for decades from Lyme Disease and all that was offered to me after yrs of antibiotics was massive pain killers. I went there with a suitcase full of pain meds, muscle relaxers, tranquilizers and after 3 weeks I walked out of there off all my meds, healthier then I had been in decades. They offer you an array of treatments, they do some recommending, but we are all adults and can pick and chose as we wish. I do think they are too expensive and I don't like the big marketing push for various products and services but I cannot imagine what it costs to run this place. I never heard Brian or Anna say their program will cure anything, they are just giving you the tools and education for you to make your immune function be its strongest and to learn that an alkaline body, free of inflammation, is your healthiest body, and they show you how to get there. I bought very few vitamins/supps. Some Americans eat a terrible diet, don't exercise and stuff their bad emotions and thoughts with food, alcohol or drugs. HHI just opens up your world to all the possible things you can do to be at your physical best. If you have stage 4 cancer and are on your last breath, don't go there looking for a miracle.
I would put my email here for folks who want to go to ask me questions but, there are too many folks here just looking to bash them. Go there for a tour, they have them all the time, they open to anyone. It is not a food protocol that everyone can do, it is all raw vegan but it works, at least it did for me.

please remove comment 183 by Donna c...I hit the submit button in error. Thanks

You're an idiot....and narrow minded. How can you write or comment on something you know nothing about. Someone died...people die all the time in hospitals after spending thousand of dollars on Western Medcine....but something you know nothing about you label as QUACKERY....HIppocrates is trying to prolong peoples lives in a natural way....what is so wrong about that....don't criticize what you know nothing about....

HIppocrates is trying to prolong peoples lives in a natural way….what is so wrong about that

Nothing so long as they've proven that they can do what they claim to do. What evidence is there that “We have … the longest history on the planet earth, the highest success rate on the planet earth of people healing cancer,” as was quoted above? How good is that evidence? Thanks.

Unless you have gone to HHI and experienced what they do there, you best shut up.

Thanks for the advice.

they are just giving you the tools and education for you to make your immune function be its strongest and to learn that an alkaline body, free of inflammation, is your healthiest body, and they show you how to get there.

Besides your own experience (I'm glad you're feeling better, by the way) what evidence do they provide that what they suggest will improve your immune function? How do they measure the improvement in immune function? What statistics do they provide to show that people who follow their recommendations improve their immune functions? Thanks.

Maybe I am an idiot too, but I'm confused about the treatments offered at HHI.

According to Dr. Mercola (an enthusiastic supporter of Brian Clement), there is danger from electromagnetic pollution, and cites Clement to the effect that some people are "universal conductors" suffering from modern technology.

But at the same time, he praises HHI for offering "state of the art electromagnetic therapy". What happens when you give this therapy to people who may be undiagnosed universal conductors? Are all patients grounded just in case (do not laugh, the Mercola article also discusses therapeutic grounding)?

I'm reminded of people who warn against cellphone radiation, x-rays, chemtrails (and yes, electromagnetic pollution) but promote the use of Rife machines which send mysterious but supposedly healing rays through their bodies.

Shouldn't we be avoiding all this artificial stuff and just stick to wheatgrass enemas?

How can you write or comment on something you know nothing about.

I would point out to Rebecca that Orac is in fact a cancer surgeon, but six will get you ten she'd pounce on that as evidence of a conflict of interest.

That is incredible, one girl dies from an alternative treatment and everybody sees that as proof and justification to shut down another attempt to combat the gods of multibillion Dollar pharmaceutical establishments. How many people have died from radio and chemotherapy side effects? How many people die from non cancer related treatments in hospitals every year? I could give numbers but this discussion is useless because everybody believes what they want to believe despite facts and experience telling the opposite.

No, we don't ignore the deaths that occur in modern medicine as side effects. It gets acknowledged over and over and there are even shock of all shocks science people working very hard to reduce those deaths so, people are actually aware of this. And we even try to reduce the number of deaths due to the disease, too. Believe it or not.

But we don't tell the patient it is all their fault when they die because the treatment never fails, only the patient fails the treatment which is a common trope in alt med. Often why people forgo effective treatment because doing anything other than exactly what the guru says means the patient deliberately did something to kill themselves, after all if you hadn't taken that one pill that one time that the doctor gave you the alternative would have been able to save your life, how could you do that to yourself and your family, if only you had not given in and had more faith.

I do understand that killing people by inaction (either yours or by encouraging someone else to avoid appropriate action) feels more ethical than we can point to something you actively did to kill someone. That impulse seems hardwired in our brains.

And when you write, if you write, do you ever limit your thesis to a particular topic or must you always include a lot of other injustices in the world as you can't talk about one unless you acknowledge every other single possible one, and dear lord can't you see how Orac goes on and on when he limits himself to one topic? If he has to include all other topics every single time, I'll need to bring more snacks along when I wander in here.

Miguel:

How about some numbers about Clement's cure rate for cancer? I mean using the same standards as science based medicine: biopsy proven, not already treated effectively, sufficient followup. I promise I will consider them with an open mind.

Deal?

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/02/25/finally-the-state-of-flori…

This guy is a totally.................................. mendacious bully.

As soon as the author starts picking apart people's punctuation and character, his arguments become just as invalid as the claims of the ones he's trying to "expose".

It has been scientifically proven that eating good foods makes up a healthy body and vice versa.... It has also been scientifically proven that CERTAIN traditional treatments offered by big pharma (i.e. radiation, chemo, surgery) of CERTAIN cancers types (prostate etc) in particularly early stages are effective. I'm sure eating well can only help the body as it heals. Everything is situational. There is no hard lined truth....and how people choose to treat their ailments is their business. At the end of the day, the entire medical industry is about profit, holistic and allopathic/modern medicine alike. Criticizing and bullying someones personal choice of treatment either way is ridiculous. Until you are battling a disease such as cancer yourself, you are in no place to judge. Also, defending once's stance so viciously just shows the brainwashed, onesided perspective you're coming from. Wishing wellness to all whatever ways works for your body.

It has been scientifically proven that eating good foods makes up a healthy body and vice versa

Vice versa? A healthy body makes up eating good foods?

There is no hard lined truth
What harm has the English language done to deserve this kind of ill-treatment?

Vice versa? A healthy body makes up eating good foods?

Nonono. The roles get reversed. Thus, eating healthy bodies makes up good food, modulo some grammatical tweaks.

Thus, eating healthy bodies makes up good food, modulo some grammatical tweaks.

Healthy long pig? That's good eatin'!

"Wishing wellness to all whatever ways works for your body."

Why I am hearing this in Elmer Fudd's voice?

@Ray #180

P.S. Daniel Chapter One has been targeted by the FTC and attempting to shut them down, not because there were any complaints from customers, but because representatives from the pharmaceutical industry are pushing for it.

It would seem that the FTC was quite successful. Despite assertions at their website of compliance with the January 25, 2010 modified final court order that, among things, enjoined them from touting "benefits" of shark cartilege and other products, they were found in contempt beginning May 9, 2012 and continuously thereafter, and sanctioned accordingly.

Although I'm glad that your GF seems to be feeling better, it seems that DC1 were in violation of court orders during her treatment as well. I suspect that $5M in fines may have helped make the point. Personally, I'm happy to see them closed down.

those referring to quacks are ducks, no thats insulting ducks.
Orac and Narad, something smells about these two. way to defensive and aggressive with their opinions to not be sus.
If we dont keep testing for illness most of us would live to old age with it in our bodies. Those of you that wrote all the positive things about nutrition and alternative Health, thankyou, but it is wasted on morons that dont have logic, common sense or a brain. The idiot that keeps on insisting on proof of your illness, proof of your cure, needs to go meditate because he must get dizzy going in circles covering the same ground. Who are you to demand proof, you would never accept proof even if it bit you on your rear end.

@lyn

So, got any actual evidence for your word salad? Or, making your own argument reductio ad absurdum, I can say that you are a child abuser and beat your own children just because I said so, without any proof?

"Who are you to demand proof, you would never accept proof even if it bit you on your rear end."

I think you meant to address this remark to the folks at Age of Autism.

lyn

The idiot that keeps on insisting on proof of your illness, proof of your cure, needs to go meditate because he must get dizzy going in circles covering the same ground.

If someone would provide a straight answer to the questions, the circles would stop.

Who are you to demand proof

Who are you to ask who am I to demand proof?

Finally, the State of Florida acts against Brian Clement and the Hippocrates Health Institute

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