How "they" view "us": Filthy pharma lucre buying senators and hit men

My particular favorite from FB is:

Karen Brunig Beauvais: "Disturbing any which way. Remember when the fed seized all his office computers. I think the notion of fowl play is rocking the entire community on the heels of Dr. Moulden's death. Very much praying for his family."

___

For those of you who don't remember, Dr. Andrew Moulden was a Canadian who developed an incredible theory that autism is caused by small strokes:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrew_Moulden

He appears to have had a serious mental illness, posted strange videos on youtube, and according to a woman who said she was his sister, committed suicide after a battle with bipolar disorder.

You would think that if people sincerely believed in a vast, powerful, ruthlessly murderous conspiracy to hide the truth, they would be a little more circumspect.

I'm struck by the parallels between antivaxxers and global warming denialists -- each group has its own central conspiracy theory.

n the global warming denialist camp, it's that a vast and diverse array of scientists around the world are queering their results to please their government paymasters, who need something like global warming as an excuse to implement greater social control, raise taxes, impose one-world government, or whatever.

The recent Karl et al. paper that reanalyzed temperature measurements and showed that there never really had been a "pause" in global warming over the last 15 years or so created a furore -- Anthony Watts actually wrote directly to one of the co-authors and accused hm and his co-authors of "prostituting" themselves.

In both cases, the true believers need some explanation for why every single qualified expert disagrees with them, and the only story they can concoct is a ludicrous conspiracy theory.

Shelby is a small town of 20k people, and the same town where they just apprehended the Charleston South Carolina mass church killer Dylann Roof last week

But Shelby is not in Rutherford County, where Bradstreet's body was found, nor is it in Henderson County, whose rescue squad found the gun. Chimney Rock is just east of the border between those two counties, according to my handy road atlas, and it's about 50 miles, half of them on single carriageway roads, from Shelby. So connecting this to Dylann Roof requires a substantial dose of Artistic License: Geography.

Just how the hell would they know that [the gunshot was self-inflicted]

They will need a coroner's report to be sure, but police officers do this kind of thing for a living, and I would expect ordinary deputies to call in the homicide squad as soon as they noticed the gunshot wound, which would be less than a minute after they started examining the body. But of course one of the standard features of conspiracy theories is that everyone who isn't yelling about the conspiracy is corrupt or incompetent.

Notice the way that the lack of anything extraordinary in Bradstreet's death is used as evidence that something fishy is happening. If there had been anything unusual, they would have used that as proof: a classic unfalsifiable belief. That's the path to delusional thinking.

Pharma companies have done some spectacularly unethical things over the years, particularly in developing countries. It's not that conspiracies don't exist, it's that conspiracy theories rely on lack of evidence as proof, hence the "theory" part of the term.

Mayer Eisenstein is also on the Pharma Death List!

Dr. Pan accepted $95,150 in contributions from drug companies in 2013-14. I have no idea if these were companies that make vaccines or if this is considered a large sum of money for such a politician. I am sure that when drug companies donate to politicians, bills mandating inexpensive vaccines that keep kids out of the hospital are not what they have in mind. Clearly, this donation has no bearing on whether SB277 is a good bill or not- it is.

Having said that, there is, perhaps for the first time, a *grain* of truth in an claim made by an anti-vaxxer. We may never see this happen again.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article249…

Also, just to add one more wrinkle, Erin at Heal Nut News is the girlfriend of Joseph Mercola. She is a vile woman who bans all dissent from her Facebook page, believes every conspiracy known to man, and yet believes herself to be a visionary, under attack by Monsanto and Merck.

She notes on her Facebook page that "I worry for my other half who is prominent doctor too in the US." So she really thinks Mercola might be the target of an assassination. Poor woman. What a horrible way to go through life.

It had struck me as unusual that a male would commit suicide this way (I had associated shooting oneself in the chest with women rather than men), but it turns out I was wrong:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22354080

I suspect true Big Pharma Button Men would stage the scene better than in the current case and not use an "unusual" method, but I can't swear to it. As soon as I pass the Big Pharma Button Men physical and take the 6-month training course, I'll have more information to share.

The BMJ has this to say about the CDC (maybe the BMJ has joined the conspiracy theorists too!):

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) includes the following disclaimer with its recommendations: “CDC, our planners, and our content experts wish to disclose they have no financial interests or other relationships with the manufacturers of commercial products . . . CDC does not accept commercial support.”

The CDC’s image as an independent watchdog over the public health has given it enormous prestige, and its recommendations are occasionally enforced by law.

Despite the agency’s disclaimer, the CDC does receive millions of dollars in industry gifts and funding, both directly and indirectly, and several recent CDC actions and recommendations have raised questions about the science it cites, the clinical guidelines it promotes, and the money it is taking.

Marcia Angell, former editor in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, told The BMJ, “The CDC has enormous credibility among physicians, in no small part because the agency is generally thought to be free of industry bias. Financial dealings with biopharmaceutical companies threaten that reputation.”

Industry funding of the CDC has taken many doctors, even some who worked for CDC, by surprise. Philip Lederer, an infectious diseases fellow at Massachusetts General Hospital and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, and a former CDC epidemic intelligence service officer, told The BMJ he was “saddened” to learn of industry funding.

http://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2362

Erin at Health Nut News[...] bans all dissent from her Facebook page, believes every conspiracy known to man, and yet believes herself to be a visionary

I like the part where she rationalises linking to the Wikipedia entry on Bradstreet, despite its excessively honest and critical tone:

It was 4am and I vetted every source BUT wiki can be updated daily

I.e. the Whackyweedia entry was not hostile when she included the link; all the unpalatable truths were added later BY THE CONSPIRACY.

Of course they were.

The idea that Richard Pan is spearheading SB 277 to repay his pharma masters is rather implausible if you think a bit about it. Even if all that money he got was from vaccine manufacturers (highly unlikely), consider this. As antivaccinationists are wont to point out, the unvaccinated rate statewide in California is low. Of course, the statewide vaccine uptake rate is not the issue. It's the pockets of low vaccine uptake in various affluent communities with pockets of vaccine hesitancy and antivaccine activism where outbreaks occur. So even if SB 277 is passed it's unlikely to bring that much additional money to pharma coffers, given that (1) vaccines for the most part are not big profit centers and (2) the numbers of additional children vaccinated after SB 277 passes (assuming it passes) is likely to be quite small compared to total vaccine sales. It's just that the newly vaccinated children will be in the right places to bring up vaccine uptake in those pockets of low vaccine uptake.

In other words, from a conspiracy standpoint, it wouldn't make much sense on the part of the pharmaceutical industry to stir up so much controversy and animosity for so little return.

I suspect true Big Pharma Button Men would stage the scene better than in the current case and not use an “unusual” method, but I can’t swear to it.

Now in my day, when we wanted dissident doctors removed from the scene, we'd use our memory-rewrite technology to instill false memories that they'd committed some heinous crime; then they would go to ground and devote all their considerable ingenuity to keeping a low profile and avoiding being found.

Of course in those days we took pride in our worksmanship.

Orac, your minions were speculating about the level of conspiracy that would arise surrounding Bradstreet a couple of days ago.

It seems the imaginations of your minions are just not up to scratch.

In other words, from a conspiracy standpoint, it wouldn’t make much sense on the part of the pharmaceutical industry to stir up so much controversy and animosity for so little return.

I detect a fatal flaw in this reasoning. Since when have the rules been that an anti-vaccine conspiacy has to make sense?

"The BMJ has this to say about the CDC (maybe the BMJ has joined the conspiracy theorists too!):"

Actually, it's not "The BMJ has this to say" - it's a feature article written by an associate editor at the BMJ, not an editorial.

The article says nothing about CDC recommendations on vaccines.

I would prefer the government provide the CDC with adequate funding to cover its needs, rather than have it accept corporate donations to help with research. It is however sloppy (and yes, conspiratorial in tone) to try to wipe out everything the CDC does with shill accusations, rather than considering facts on a case by case basis.

*the article notes that the CDC committee making recommendations on hepatitis screening included 9 of 34 members with "ties" to industry (whatever these "ties" were is not explained). One might conclude from this that the recommendations overwhelmingly came from independent experts.

In other words, from a conspiracy standpoint, it wouldn’t make much sense on the part of the pharmaceutical industry to stir up so much controversy and animosity for so little return.

I have to agree with ChrisP here. You are using logic instead of thinking like a conspiracy theorist.

Notice the way that the lack of anything extraordinary in Bradstreet’s death is used as evidence that something fishy is happening.

This is an all-too-human tendency, and while conspiracy theorists almost always display it, not all who display it are conspiracy theorists. We all have a tendency to interpret evidence in ways that favor our preconceived notions, and one of the most important goals of scientific training is to mitigate this tendency as much as possible.

Shelby is a small town of 20k people

*blink*
That would already be a city of moderate size in European countries.
Well, everything is bigger in the US.

If I understand correctly, Erin Elizabeth is suggesting that you cannot have two disturbed people among 20,000 of them in a short period of time.
I have the belief that a look at the logbook of any police station would prove her otherwise.

Alternatively, she may be thinking there was a massive release of mind-controlling nanites in the area, hence all of these people acting weirdly. I would suggest re-calibrating her medical tricorder.

@ Dangerous Bacon

whatever these “ties” were is not explained

Well, one of them, while waiting for the bus, was asked for the time by a janitor working for Merck, and another one has a cousin whose coloc once delivered a pizza to the warden of a warehouse previously owned by Johnson&Johnson.

*the article notes that the CDC committee making recommendations on hepatitis screening included 9 of 34 members with “ties” to industry (whatever these “ties” were is not explained). One might conclude from this that the recommendations overwhelmingly came from independent experts.

And silly me thought that the purpose of having some individuals from an industry that may be effected by the policy at the table was to ensure all groups involved in one way or another with the policy were equally upset at the final result.

For a lot of things that seems to be the metric by which they determine the final outcome of a policy, if everyone who might benefit from the policy or may be negatively impacted by the policy are all equally upset by the policy, you probably got the balance of it as close to appropriate as humanly possible.

If you remove one group from the table because they might benefit or might be harmed you have no way to judge their pleasure or upsetness with any given iteration of the policy.

While I understand the impulse requiring all people on a committee to be all of the exact same viewpoint as the person complaining about who got to be at the table usually doesn't end up with things that are annoying fair to all who may be impacted.

So it does depend on who the not tied to industry are tied to and really do we want to make it so the only people allowed on any policy committee are those who can't possibly have any interest, experience, or knowledge about the issue? The only thing that I think of that is worse in a working group than someone who is overly passionate about a topic because their livelihood or belief system is on the line is having a bunch of people who don't care about it at all and don't know anything about it and had to be forced to be there as they have something they think is important to be doing somewhere else.

Despite the agency’s disclaimer, [The non-profit CDC Foundation] does receive millions of dollars in industry gifts and funding, both directly and indirectly, and several recent CDC actions and recommendations have raised questions about the science it cites, the clinical guidelines it promotes, and the money it is taking.

FTFY, Caryn

Methinks there might be something in this idea. That's why they murdered Bradstreet - who nobody much ever heard of - and not Wakefield, who has entered popular culture as a simile for crook.

Those guys are smart.

You see, they KNEW that Wakefield had started writing to California state senators telling them that some among their number were taking money from big business.

And pharma sure did want him to do that.

Broken Link@1: See also disgraced GP Mark Struthers who topped himself in 2013. AFAIK his death's never been officially attributed to the Vast Pharma Conspiracy, but as anyone who's ever been on the receiving end of his online alter-ego "Cybertiger" would tell you the man was crazy as a sack of rats; and it probably was just a matter of time until psychosis, substance abuse, personality disorder, or whatever the hell his raging malfunction was, put an end to someone. Mercifully he only imploded, not exploded, though he certainly loved grinding enough axes with the rest of the world that it's a relief it wasn't worse.

Of course, for anti-vax and other such movements to accept or acknowledge that prominent members might not be shining white knights and fearless warriors, but rather frighteningly unwell or dangerously deluded individuals in need of urgent medical and/or legal treatment, would more or less be admitting that they might have some issues themselves; and so the problem perpetuates, exacerbates, and reinforces itself in a vicious spiral. If the anti-vaxxers really wish to find a genuine conspiracy against which to rail, they need only look in a mirror for it, because, honestly, people are their own absolute worst enemies.

I don't think Bradstreets death had anything to do with vaccines. He had connections to nasty people like David Noakes. He and Bradstreet were working together in the GCMAF industry. Noakes was just recently shut down as they investigating five deathes in connection with his company. I think the answers may lie in that direction.

Poor Kerri had a bad day . . . http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/illinois-attorney-general-lisa…

As per Erin at Health Nut News, the other "prominent alternative medicine practitioner... (who) died on the same weekend" was Bruce Hedendal.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/palmbeachpost/obituary.aspx?n=bruce-er…

http://www.chirobase.org/15News/hedendal.html

Since I have been traipsing about in the land of mists, I have been most grievously amiss in precisely monitoring broadcast bullhockey courtesy of prn.fm, so in order to remedy this dire state of affairs I present this tidbit ( and it's not OT, either):

Richard Gale, Scholar-in-Residence** ( see Gary Null Show, 6-19; 45 minutes in) has written two papers with his hoary, old host to be published in 'prestigious journals' that show the 'myth' of the efficacy of polio and smallpox vaccines..
.
AND Gale has investigated how Richard Pan and the bill's co-sponsor received MUCH MORE pharma money than was previously believed ( 95K and 90K USD, respectively)

MOREVER Pan has been caught lying to the committee because he said that their all no aborted foetal cells in MMR and DTaP- when of course, we all KNOW that there are. Lots of them. Oodles of them.
Legislators he remarks, are only lawyers and suchlike and can't understand the SCIENCE so Pan fooled them easily.

AND Pan's next pharma-servicing bill will mandate psychiatric meds for kids in foster care.

** heh.

EDIT: he said that there are no

@Pareidolius #25
Kerri did indeed have a bad day. Sorry she avoided jail time but the threat seemed to be enough for her to sign the agreement to stop selling and stop presenting in Illinois.

I wonder how she will stop online users in Illinois from reading her stuff?

I wish more states would act so responsibly.

Let me see if I can dream up a conspiracy theory that links Bradstreet's death to Eisenstein's...

Big Pharma Black OPs got word that there Eisenstein was to publish a report about his un-vaccinated, non-autistic population of clients and Bradstreet was his co-author, presenting material about his own patients as well as his many cures.

OBVIOUSLY they had to make one hit APPEAR to be from natural causes ( although Dr E was as healthy as a horse) and the other an apparent suicide ( of an extremely emotionally stable, Christian) so that no one would ever think to connect them.

Oh. We're clever.

Got word THAT Eisenstein...Pardonez les typos

Assembly floor live-cast:

http://calchannel.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&event_id=1771

They are still doing introductions of special guests. SB277 is #33 on the agenda, but the Speaker may change it...

So even if SB 277 is passed it’s unlikely to bring that much additional money to pharma coffers, given that (1) vaccines for the most part are not big profit centers and (2) the numbers of additional children vaccinated after SB 277 passes (assuming it passes) is likely to be quite small compared to total vaccine sales.

It is true that SB277 will not enrich Big Pharma because of the above and because, as we know, SB277 does not mandate forced vaccination, and only prevents the unvaccinated from entering public schools. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy.

According to http://a2zhomeschooling.com/thoughts_opinions_home_school/numbers_homes… there are 6,757,361 children between the ages of 5-17 in California, and 190,911 are currently home schooled. According to http://ww2.kqed.org/stateofhealth/2015/01/30/vaccine-opt-out-rate-drops… the vaccine opt out rate due to the Personal Belief Exemption in CA is 2.5% state-wide, which gives us a figure of 168,934 unvaccinated students. We know that there is a larger percentage of unvaccinated students who are home schooled as compared to public school. If we assume the PBE rate of home schooled student is 10 times that of the state overall rate (a number I pulled from the air) there are 47,728 unvaccinated home schooled children (25% of 190,911), leaving 121,206 unvaccinated children not home schooled.

Because the anti-vax brigade is stalwart in their belief (how else can I read “...but for us this bill is about our children and messing them only means one thing. It means war.”) let us assume a just 50% (but probably more, because this is war, don't ya know) will hold fast and not vaccinate, and therefor will be forced to homeschool. That means that an additional 60,603 students will be home schooled. That's a greater than 30% increase in the sales of homeschool supplies.

The fact that Big Home School has managed to place the blame on Big Pharma shows just how sly those ba$tards are. I only hope our host will protect me and not give out my contact information when they come calling on him to track me down for blowing their cover.

Liz is correct about change of schedule.

Reading SB 277 now.

Assemblywoman Gonzalez is presenting SB277 as we speak.

That would already be a city of moderate size in European countries.
Well, everything is bigger in the US.

Well, yeah. Texas, our second largest state, covers 268,580 sq mi or 695,621 sq km (Alaska is more than twice that). France's total land area, with its overseas departments and territories (excluding Adélie Land), 260,558 sq mi, or 674,843 sq km. (Size isn't everything – Texas has a population of 26,960,000, and there are 66,030,000 French).

The great circle distance from Washington DC to San Francisco is 2438 mi or 3925 km. This is almost exactly the same as from Lisbon to Moscow.

@ #13

In other words, from a conspiracy standpoint, it wouldn’t make much sense on the part of the pharmaceutical industry to stir up so much controversy and animosity for so little return.

Like most conspiracy theories, it doesn't make much sense to anyone with critical thinking skills.

But as we all know, you'll never win an argument with a conspiracy thinking person when it comes to their pet conspiracy.

Given that most/all seem to view themselves as "awakened", as opposed to we sheeple and/or "pharma shills", one obvious response to the above is that "big pharma" has to prevent increasingly large numbers of people from also "awakening" and from this perspective "big pharma" might see weathering the current "controversy and animosity" as well worthwhile.

As concerns Bradstreet's death being a "big pharma" hit, one obvious, to anyone other that the conspiracy buffs, question might be that if pharmaceutical companies were in to this sort of thing, why are folks like Barbara Loe Fisher still walking around after all these years?

Why didn't "big pharma" nip the whole anti-vaccine movement in the bud back when folks like Fisher were relatively unknown whackadoodle voices in the wilderness?

Given "big pharma's" vast financial and pharmaceutical resources, I tend to think folks like Fisher could have been whacked in a manner that made her death look natural or accidental.

So why is she, along with the various vaccine warriors making money whipping up vaccine fears exposing the dangers of vaccines, still around spreading the anti-vaccine message?

Needless to say, anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists likely have a number of response to this question.

Re: Jinan Robison, it would be nice to see Senator Pan bringing a libel suit against her for her publicly made implication/accusation of corruption, i.,e., "For you, this bill may have meant luxurious and lucrative kickbacks" and "So, Senator Pan enjoy your Merck sponsored vacation".

Having some of the anti-vaccine crowd face consequences for this type of outright libel certainly couldn't hurt.

@Johnny #33:

The fact that Big Home School has managed to place the blame on Big Pharma shows just how sly those ba$tards are. I only hope our host will protect me and not give out my contact information when they come calling on him to track me down for blowing their cover.

They don't need to get your contacxt information out of Orac; they've already tracked you back to your IP address. Remarkably, it was closer to home than they might have thought...

Helianthus@19: Whether Shelby is a small town depends on your perspective. It would qualify as a big town in the part of the US where I live (it's bigger than the town I live in), and it's the county seat for its county. But if you live in a large metropolitan area, it seems small. Even at US population densities, which are lower than most countries, such a population would fit within 10 km^2, which would put everybody within what I would consider a reasonable walking distance of the center (on this point many Americans would disagree).

SB277 passes the Assembly 46 to 30 with 4 no votes recorded.

Woohoo!!!

#40 - Thanks Liz. It looks to be essentially a party-line vote.

When (if) they put a vid of this up I recommend watching Jim Cooper's (D) statement. As an African-American he was quite obviously incensed by the sleazy, racist Wakefield/Hooker autism hoax and the threats of professional and physical harm toward legislators from the anti-vaccine cultists.

Also watch for Shirley N. Weber (D), also AA who considers the bill to be a "health issue" dealing with "protection" of the children. She pulled rank by age and lectured the youngsters about what she had seen in the pre-vaccine bad-old-days.

Unfortunately there was a lot of parroting the anti-science anti-vaccinationist talking points by a number of those opposed.

Hopefully Gov. Moonbeam will sign it unmodified.

DGR @37

AoA has published other things in the past that are far worse.You kind of wonder why nobody has sued them for libel
in the past.

Congratulations to all those in the California State Legislature who had the brains and the cojones to vote "aye" on SB277!

Yay for SB277 passing!

A bit OT but does anyone know what has been going on with Dorit Reiss? Looks like her facebook page is down and I haven't seen her comment in a while...

Hope she is OK!

@ 44 There's activity on her twitter account, so I assume she's just too busy? :)

https://twitter.com/doritmi

She's taking a well deserved maternal rest - she and her family are doing just fine & probably celebrating as we speak.

And the plot thickens. Bradstreet received a visit from the FDA right before he killed himself:

http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/2015/jun/25/controversial-autism-…

"In other words, from a conspiracy standpoint, it wouldn’t make much sense on the part of the pharmaceutical industry to stir up so much controversy and animosity for so little return."

Unfortunately, if conspiracy theorists could understand cost/benefit like that . . . they wouldn't be conspiracy theorists.

In my personal experience with friends who are conspiracy minded, I notice that none of them ever want to talk about the logistics of any of said conspiracies nor about the true logical conclusions of their assertions...

"And the plot thickens. Bradstreet received a visit from the FDA right before he killed himself:"

This will likely be Vince Foster Pt II; i.e. the cranks will hold a limpet grip to their notion of what happened and the evidence will be damned all while they try to attract new believers and rile up the base with such unsubstantiated bullshit...

For the record, my guess on Bradstreet? He probably had a bunch of sanctions coming, perhaps unpaid taxes and such, and didn't want to stick around to pay the piper...

Bradstreet received a visit from the FDA

Brian Deer mentioned a rumour about FBI interviews.

[Noakes] and Bradstreet were working together in the GCMAF industry. Noakes was just recently shut down as they investigating five deathes in connection with his company.

Sometime in the last few months, Bradstreet went through his site, scrubbing all his recommendations for GcMAF and his testimonies of its miraculous cures... all down the memory hole. You can still find them in the Internet Archive of course.

A bad person would go over to Health Nut and similar conspiratorial blogs, and comment about this evidence that Bradstreet was BEING PRESSURED and AFRAID OF RETRIBUTION.

Hooray for SB277! Let's hope that the gubernor doesn't neuter it down.

The 'it wasn't a suicide' conspiracy theories are reminding me of the antics around Dr David Kelly's suicide, nicely documented in Voodoo Histories.

the cranks will hold a limpet grip to their notion of what happened and the evidence will be damned all while they try to attract new believers and rile up the base with such unsubstantiated bullshit…

Future editions of Cluedo should add Prozac to the list of possible murder weapons:

[Bradstreet] may have been given a drug that caused him to shoot himself in an unconscious state.

I am an expert on antidepressant adverse reactions. Currently I am helping a husband and wife team, both doctors who have been working to raise awareness of the vaccine/Autism connection for a long time, and they are both victims of these deadly antidepressant drugs.

Re SB277: WOO!!!

Hey Gov Brown: sign it, sign it, sign it!

*happy dance*!

Obamacare and vaccines all in one day? And it's only Thursday? Wee!

Now if they rule on SSM and Haley takes down that way etched flag, it will have been a good week

'Wretched.' Damn I hate auto complete.

Bradstreet WAS murdered by a conspiracy! And Merck is behind it all! But it's not what the anti-vaxers are thiniking? No! It's so much deeper! Think about it! If Merck wanted to silence the opposition, why would they assasinate Bradstreet, a mere peon. They'd go for the head — Andrew Wakefield himself! But they've left Andy alone for years! Why? Because he's working for them as an agent provocateur! See, they KNOW the MMR causes autism, via a super-complex causal-chain mechanism that hides from simple statistical analysis. But fearing some super-smart scientist would figure it out eventually, they set up their own 'anti-vax scientist' with an easily debunked crackpot theory and a deligimating fraud-for-profit scheme as a diversion and deflection! Andy is, and always has been, a FALSE FLAG!!

But when the FBI started sniffing around Bradstreet for other reasons, they feared he'd roll on them and spill the beans to save his own butt. So they had him hit, which keeps the cover narrative in place even if a few threads get traced back to Merck! Genius! It keeps the narrative on the gut and mercury and all the other nonsense that has nothing to do with the REAL plot — which, of course, has nothing to do with anything as prosaic as profits, and is all about preparing the way for lizard-like shape-shifting aliens to take over the U.S. and institute a New World Order in preparation for the arrival of the Antichrist...

Ix-nay on the izards-lay, sadmar.

Yeah sadmar,our scaly overlords don't like it if you reveal too much of their plans.

Well done California re SB277
We have our own little fight going on re the Australian Federal Govt plans to remove conscientious objection and religious exemption regarding the FTB payment families receive for having vaccinated their children - the only exemption allowed will be medical reasons.
And the anti-vaxxers are protesting this. It's not about the kids, it's about the loss of a payment they received despite not doing what the payment was for. THeir freedom of speech, their right to choose etc etc... same old arguments.
THere was a national weekend of anti-vax protest here last weekend which was underwhelming in the turnout in the various capital cities. The infighting in the organisation of these protests was a sight to behold and the source of much mirth.
And they are also now following it up with sabotage by Big Pharma/AMA/SAVN. Heh.

Quit it with the Governor Moonbeam crap. Perhaps you'd rather have Brownback or Jindal as your governor but my experience as a lifelong citizen of of the state of California and the city of Oakland is that Jerry Brown is the best leader this state has had in my lifetime. It's unfortunate that he waffled at the last opportunity to sign a bill reducing exemptions but I feel confident that this time he will sign the bill.

Ah yes the No jab, No pay, No way Marches were a fabulous diversion last week end from the important stuff of the AFL split round.

@ sadmar:

Come on, dude, you know as well as I do that there are NO lizard overlord masters who pay us mucho euros to counter rebellious TruthTellers (tm) and host fabulous parties in Ibiza where we all try out the latest pharma love potions and eat caviar like it was candy. Wearing Prada.

Obviously David Icke is just another loony trying to make money selling a half-baked, stupid campfire tale about the Queen being a lizard, the world being threatened by alien power plays and Giant Corporations being instruments of the Devil incarnate, Uncle Rupert Gecko.

And our dearest Lord Draconis ( Praised be his name) is merely a very creative gay man who lives in Santa Rosa and has a new wavish band.

Orac does not own a 100' yacht named Zowie Bowie.

I am not actually a person but either a totally realistic android or a large white cat wot can type.

We just say these things to make fun of woo-meisters and conspiracy mongers who might believe tall tales and several impossible things before breakfast.

Would I lie to you?

IN other news...

Jake ( Autism Investigated ) is writing about AJW and black organisations . He mentioned taking out a "speculative" paragraph about Bradstreet 'because of his family".

The tin foil hat brigade wants to stop people from talking about the alleged FBI investigation of Bradstreet.

Carolyn Gammicchia to Remembering Dr. Bradstreet

I'm posting this on this page to ask that we as a community that supports Dr. Bradstreet take action. An article appeared today in the Gwinnett Daily Post about Dr. Bradstreet. It is inaccurate, has no reliable sources named for the information, and indicates the cause of his death. At this point this is an open investigation by law enforcement into Dr. Bradstreet's death. There has been no determination by the local authorities period. So we as a community not only have to ensure this article is not shared, but also not allowed to represent the truth because it is not. As someone who has seen FDA involvement in the past, I too question why this was done. Heck they raided dairy farms here in MI that were legally selling raw milk. We need to push back folks and push back for the truth. So please do not share this article. Ask those that do to remove it from social media because the headline nor contents are true. Let's wait for facts and in the interim assist in raising funds so the family can indeed get to the bottom of this. Thank you! http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/…/controversial-autism-r…/…

Sorry, should be FDA investigation, not FBI investigation.

Now in my day, when we wanted dissident doctors removed from the scene, we’d use our memory-rewrite technology to instill false memories that they’d committed some heinous crime;...

Perhaps you might elaborate, herr doktor bimler #14? I find it funny that I'm all of a sudden not laughing.

I don't know why these cranks are even insisting on an "investigation" into Bradstreet's death. If he was "suicided" by the "authorities", wouldn't those same authorities simply cover up the investigation and confirm the suicide? In other words, everybody would be in on it, so how could any investigation even be trusted?

Having read enough Mikey and Alex and Bolen and the other conspiracy sites, I know that no amount of evidence will ever convince them that a suicide (or accidental death) was not some conspiracy. Everything can be explained away to bolster a conspiracy theory. Family found a suicide note? Well, the victim was forced to write it at gunpoint. Police find gunshot residue (I watch too much CSI) on the victim and establish forensic evidence he shot himself? Once again, he was given a gun and forced to shoot himself.

Concerning the number of doctors who have killed themselves and a "hit list": I found some statistics (that seem credible, published in JAMA) showing that the suicide rate among physicians ranges from double to more than triple that of the general public; it's not so unusual that a handful of those suicides would be prominent, if not controversial, doctors. Depression and divorce rates are also higher among physicians.

Funny, I had never even heard of Bradstreet until his name came up in the recent MMS/Genesis church post when Trevor, one of his employees, showed up in the comments to shill his GcMAF (and support MMS). The good herr doktor bimler, who obviously knows a lot about Bradstreet and the GcMAF scam, educamated me.

There's another crackpot conspiracy video on YouTube I found recently that claims actor Paul Walker (of The Fast and the Furious fame) who died in a sports car accident was actually killed because he had stumbled on some "big secret" and was about to expose it. I have to revisit that to figure out what the YouTube nut job thinks Walker was about to blow wide open (on Howard Stern, no doubt).

A quantum suicide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX4Hm8LTW5Q

Wearing Prada.

So that's why I haven't been getting my pharma checks -- I keep showing up in LL Bean.

Report from the "peaceful protest" against the vote for SB277:

While reporting on the demonstration, Lewis noticed a female protester standing about four feet from the steps who was spraying liquid into the air from a bottle. Lewis asked the protester what the liquid was, she said. The protester said it was a “mood changer,” Lewis said.

When Lewis asked again about the bottle, the protester put the bottle two inches from Lewis’s face and sprayed it

http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-reporter-anti-vaccinati…

Isn't that special? Kind of goes along with the opposition fake-coughing all over SB277 supporters as we walked through their numbers to get to the hearing chamber.

Lewis asked the protester what the liquid was, she said. The protester said it was a “mood changer,” Lewis said.

If somebody walked up to me and sprayed something in my face, I imagine my mood would change quite abruptly, but not in a way which the sprayer would find favorable.

@Broken Link

Sorry, should be FDA investigation, not FBI investigation.

Link's also broken.

I have yet to get a single Pharma-lucre check! I haven't been sure if it might be my lack of adequate shilling, my regular Wal-Mart-level attire...

I did amuse myself by posting an article by a scientist Dachelbot quoted in her comments. It discussed parents skipping vaccines

Oops. Sorry about that...

Anyhow, whomever is approving comments didn't read my link (and probably, none of the normal readers will), because in the beginning pages, vaccine compliance is discussed as the best way to eradicate measles, measles is described as highly infectious, dangerous, and the measles vaccine is described favorably.

If a few do read it, maybe the fact she cherry picks pieces of another article and quotes the doctor favorably will make them confused enough to think a little more about it.

I think Orac should write a short-story based around jeff Bradstreet's "murder".
It could be written from the point of view of some notorious bozo from the anti-vax movement who tries to solve the case by imagining the most improbable conspiracy theories to make it all fit together, involving a hitman that works for big pharmaceutical companies, the FBI, CIA, the MKultra experiments and it would all be tied to the 9/11 terrorist attacks definetely being an inside job in the end.

I can see the new religion of Scientism is alive and well on this blog. Some of the dumbest things I've read here are as follows:

1) Vaccines are not profitable for Big Pharma - wrong - please learn to read a financial statement. These are huge money makers as they come with zero liability and no marketing dollars attached, along with GUARANTEED orders from the big sugar government that pays even when products are not delivered.
2) Vaccines are safe - they can harm anyone, which is stated clearly on the warning labels. Vaccine injuries are real. They may be rare in terms of acute cases, but lingering side effects of ingesting aluminum and other toxic chemicals is not being studied, and for good reason (see population control agenda).
3) There is no proof that an unvaccinated child poses a threat to a vaccinated child. Pure hogwash promulgated by psuedo intellectuals parroting what their authority figures tell them.
4) This law does not protect anyone - people from third world countries are still going to visit with their diseases and they will still spread for a short time. We are humans, and disease will always be with us (including the disease of humans trying to control the lives of others).

Here's the truth - vaccines are for population control. Bill Gates is for population control, which is why he peddles this crap. You are owned livestock that are being experimented on from every direction because these elite bastards want to depopulate the masses. Keep mocking the truth as you are being culled by the pyschopaths. The reseach of Rima Laibow, Jan Irvin and Clint Richardson will provide you with the grammar (that is the who, what, when and where) so you can finally start to understand the why.

@ Garou

Maybe we should ask Jack Palmer, of Enquète Corse fame (Pétillon). He already did - and bothched - an investigation on JFK murder.

----------------
On second thoughts, my apologies to Jeff Bradstreet's family for participating into making a laughing matter out of their loss.
They are in the middle of a tragedy and it's turning into a farce.
The last thing they need are bumbling detectives making fool of themselves all around the place.

The last thing they need are bumbling detectives making fool of themselves all around the place.

Some members of Bradstreet's family disagree, and are soliciting $25000 in donations from the public so they can hire bumbling detectives to make fools of themselves all around the place.

Perhaps you might elaborate, herr doktor bimler #14? I find it funny that I’m all of a sudden not laughing.

The best I can do is to recommend Eric Frank Russell's story "With A Strange Device" -- linked within comment #14 -- as a classic of the genre where Fortean paranoia intersects with pulp SF

I can say from personal experience that Big Pharma does not employ "lizard-like shape-shifting aliens". Although, the marketing department might be an exception.

As for the hit men, we're equal opportunity employers, so its "hit persons", not hit men. Ever wonder why many big pharmas are located in New Jersey?

I can say from personal experience that Big Pharma does not employ “lizard-like shape-shifting aliens”.

So they turned down your job application? Bummer when that happens.

Conspiracy is invariably becomes a central theme of every denialist movement. I suspect that's because many people who subscribe to such beliefs are paranoid, distrustful of authority, and irrational in the first place. They believe irrational things and have to spin their opponents as a conspiracy reconcile opposition to their views to reality.

It's funny to read some of Jim Humble's defenders for example. Any criticism (e.g. asking for evidence that anybody has every been cured of AIDS using MMS) quickly degenerates into some diatribe about the FDA and "paid disinfo shills". Every time.

If there really were a shadowy cabal trying to silence these nutcases then they're doing a pretty lousy job. I mean how hard would it be for a well funded, ruthless government-backed adversary to silence some prominent alt-health spokesman. It would be trivial of course.

"This law does not protect anyone – people from third world countries are still going to visit with their diseases and they will still spread for a short time."

THEIR diseases? Care to elaborate?

a Garou:

Believe it or not, at least two anti-vax regulars @ AoA write mysteries involving vaccine/ autism related crimes: Kim Stagliano has a romance- mystery and Louis Conte IIRC has a detective novel. If you scan over posts around Christmas, these were described. From Skyhorse publishers obviously.

@JC #77: Care to give proof of any of your statements? Or are you going to be a hit-and-run troll?

sadmar@57: Thanks for that well-done Poe.

When Lewis asked again about the bottle, the protester put the bottle two inches from Lewis’s face and sprayed it

In some jurisdictions that's considered assault. I don't know whether California is one of them.

@ Adam:

They need conspiracies because they have no data or evidence- they can just say that the powers-that-be are *stopping* them or *interfering* with their work or *sabotaging* results but if they truly had results, they would be replicated all over the world by independent researchers. No one has re-produced AJW's results or any other major woo-meister's ever.
Woo and conspiracies fit together hand in glove.

The way to get Wakefield would be either

1) A pressurized cylinder of carbon monoxide directed into his home ventilation system after he's gone to sleep for the night, which deed would look like "natural causes" the next day when it was discovered, or,

2) An injection overdose of some Schedule II narcotic, with a note pinned to the corpse suggesting it was the work of the company that produced the drug. Ideally a company that didn't produce any vaccines at all, thereby suggesting a little mutual cahoots among Big Pharmas.

3) Plain old poison in his food at some conference where he's the featured speaker. Poison is the favored method in Russia, which brings Vladimir Putin into the conspiracy and makes it that much more conspiratorial. The only question is, a fast poison or a slow one? Fast is dramatic but slow leaves more to the imagination. Gotta give the guy the opportunity to compare himself to Socrates.

Never mind...

Speaking of Schedule II narcotics: The linked article at the Gwinette Daily Post says that "The Georgia Drugs and Narcotics Agency aided the FDA with the raid..." which suggests that Bradstreet was involved in prescription narcotic abuse on a scale large enough to make it worthwhile for FDA to pounce. Or perhaps he was cooking meth. To cure autism of course.

And when the various federal and local agencies agree that the guy did himself in so as to avoid facing drug charges and going to prison, the usual crowd of ducks will start quacking up a storm about law enforcement being all corrupt and rotten.

--

Meanwhie, hooray for California, we did it! Now we all need to write postal mail to Gov.Brown to urge him to sign it without modification. I'm with Tom H. @ 61 (and probably within five miles of him too) about all that. Brown is the best Governor we've had since the last time he was Governor. It's up to us to convince him to not dilute (or succuss) the bill.

--

Agreed, the real conspiracy was by the makers of home schooling supplies, including "biology" textbooks from the Discovery Institute. Smarmy grifters all of them, though they deserve credit for cleverly shifting the blame. Or something;-)

@Yvette-I just can not stop laughing at... Erin at Heal Nut News. That's really the name? Seriously? If I asked her if her title means that she heals the nuts that read her do you think she'll delete me? HA!

Regarding Bradstreet, the fact that this man was running a thriving practice in Florida for years and then in Georgia, was very popular with his patients yet killed himself soon after his office was raided makes me really wonder what the heck was going on behind the scenes. I really hope that we find out what that was all about because he was selling a lot of hope to people and those people who paid a lot of money for treatment over the years deserve to know everything about his practice now imo.

Jake has a new post about Bradstreet @ Autism Investigated.
He will delete comments that do what he has often done.

BIG OPIUM UPDATE:

""Home brew" narcotics, they warned, could be on the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG2keYgBiZc
The timeliness of the worries was underscored Thursday, when researchers in England and Australia announced that they had discovered a long-sought gene in poppies that is crucial to the production of morphine in the plants -- and could help scientists finish engineering morphine-making yeast."
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-poppy-home-brew-her…

BUT WHAT WILL THE AFGHANS DO?

"I think Orac should write a short-story based around jeff Bradstreet’s “murder”."

Orac couldn't write a SHORT anything, even if threatened with 1000 vaccine injections at once!
http://www.infowars.com/piers-morgan-offered-1-million-to-survive-1000-…

But hey, real life history provides us with a documented DEATH BY OPIUM conspiracy....East India Co. style:
http://anglicanhistory.org/asia/china/moule_opium1881.html

#84
King James Bible Exodus 15:26
"And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee."
This was promised to the Israelites. Do they still believe it?

Psalm 103:3
"He continues to forgive all your sins, he continues to heal all your diseases"

LOOKS LIKE VACCINES ARE MOVING IN ON G*D'S TERRITORY!

Did Katz put G*d in a vaccine?

I was doing some CT bricolage in #57, I admit. I got the bit about an Alien Invasion preparing the way for the NWO and the Beast here: http://tinyurl.com/o6jb9cd But that site makes no reference to the morphology of the Aliens.

So, of course, the whole lizard-like shape-shifting thing is just another false flag to cover for the REAL aliens, who are already well diffused and disguised here on Earth, running Merck, the CDC, the entire Democratic party of California, and... oh wait, someone in a black suit is knocking on my door...

–––––––––

In case you're wondering how I found 'Advent of Deception' (no, that kinda thing isn't on my radar normally)...

In prep for the last scholarly paper I published in my academic career, I got off on a tangent researching how a particular odd-sounding quote came to be used as the basis for stories the appeared in a number of 'mainstream' media outlets. I was able to trace it back to a post on an obscure Scandinavian political blog. It had chained out from this dubious point of origin via typical journalistic laziness, repeated and amplified by scribes seeking a quickie click-bait item w/o doing any source-checking.

Fast-forward to Orac's posts about Food Babe's campaign demonizing Subway for the use of 'Yoga Mat Chemical' azodicarbonamide (ADA) in it's bread dough. I figured Vani Hari didn't come up with this 'issue' herself, and wondered where it might have originated. Again, there was something odd going on: ADA breaks down in baking into three other compounds — which are then in the bread you eat, though ADA is absent. Those are biurea, semicarbazide and ethyl carbamate (aka 'urethane', confusingly named as it has no relation to the polyurethane used in floor finish and whatnot). Now, ethyl carbamate/urethane is a known carcinogen, though there's nowhere near enough of it in bread to worry about. ADA itself is only hazardous when the raw powder is inhaled — which happens to workers manufacturing it, which is why it's banned in Europe. There's some preliminary research that suggests semicarbazide MIGHT have carcinogenic effects in high enough doses, but there's only traces of it and bread and the research isn't conclusive anyway.

So, I would have thought that if Food Babe was going to try to get people worked up about the ADA in Subway's bread, she'd be all over the one thing listed as a certified carcinogen by the WHO, the ethyl carbamate. But she never even mentions it. Anyway, with that info discovered, I thought I might be able to another info-flow detective job, and use search engines and The Wayback Machines to locate the first 'ADA is toxic!' reference on the web.

After days of digging there was no clear 'patient zero' for the BS infection. Every reference seemed to be picking up from some source that had i turn obviously picked it up from some other unidentified source. In the end, the earliest post I could find warning about the dangers of ADA was, yup, on 'Advent of Deception'. And that post specifically cited Subway bread for using it, despite the fact it was then used in buns at just about every fast food joint, and any number of commercial white-bread loaves aimed at the Kiddies (e.g. it's part of what puts the Wonder in Wonder Bread).

So did Food Babe draw her inspiration from an alien invasion AntiChrist conspiracy site, or from someone else who keeps up on the doings of ol' 666? ...probably not. In the end, the key earliest source for ADA scare-oric seems to be the book Pandora's Lunchbox by Melanie Warner.

But if Warner or Hari happened to disappear mysteriously, I'd look to the skies. I hope you're all well stocked on bubblegum... (obligatory reference to They Live)

Late to the party as usual, but here goes...
Does the fact the Sunshine Act is now in full effect have any sway in the "pharma shill" contention that the other side posits so regularly? As it stands now, CMS posts how much I am "on the take" from Big Pharma on their website. Does it throw a wet blanket on those who argue that any proponent of SBM is a pharma shill, or does the delusion/conspiracy rhetoric run deeper than that? I worry that the counter-argument will be that, of course, the real money paid to all of us shills is under the table. /sigh/

This was promised to the Israelites. Do they still believe it?

Was it delivered?

@ sadmar:

Reminds me that you live in Daly City? Which is next to PACIFICA.

Last time I was visiting the Bay Area I remember seeing a sign printed on the window of Carl's Jr which announced that 'substances within have been to shown to cause cancer' ( or suchlike).

Not that I would eat at Carl's Jr but one of my creatures did.

Seriously, substances within US have been shown to cause cancer.

I don't mean to imply that anything is actually wrong with Carl's Jr, it's just not my cup of tea.

Does it throw a wet blanket on those who argue that any proponent of SBM is a pharma shill, or does the delusion/conspiracy rhetoric run deeper than that?

The conspiracy runs much deeper than that. It goes like this:

Because the anti-vaxer (add your anti- of choice in here, the same goes for GM, climate change, 9/11 etc.) has the troof which they have obtained by searching the internet for stuff that supports their troof, then the only way to explain the actions of people who do not agree with their troof is that they must have been paid off by Big-whathaveyou.

I was going to write that the argument is circular, but it isn't. In never actually meets. It is more a spiral.

Ironically, when such people are presented with facts that dispute their chosen version of their troof, they become more firmly wedded to their troof.

Jake has a new post about Bradstreet @ Autism Investigated.

His "evidence" that the Omnibus attorney "threw the case" is awfully thin gruel.

^ Although the Wakefraud/NAACP one isn't half-bad.

As it stands now, CMS posts how much I am “on the take” from Big Pharma on their website.

Who's CMS?

I suspect it means The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS)

https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/

Well, I guess same sex couples can now look forward to a 50% divorce rate plus ALIMONY! LOL!
The lawyer lobby was definitely behind the S.C. decision!
I wonder if this will cut into Epstein's or Frank's business?

So did Food Babe draw her inspiration from an alien invasion AntiChrist conspiracy site, or from someone else who keeps up on the doings of ol’ 666? …probably not. In the end, the key earliest source for ADA scare-oric seems to be the book Pandora’s Lunchbox by Melanie Warner.

Food Babe was also regurgitating the “Banned in Singapore -- 15 years in prison + $450,000 fine” story, which seemed to have been fabricated by Mark Rubi (“Extreme Weight Loss Examiner”) in 2009. Unless you have encountered an earlier source?

Sorry. CMS is Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (I don't know where the extra "M" went). They're a part of the Department of Health and Human Services.

^^ Holy crap, though, the JAMA one is dismaying. He throws away the sensitivity analysis.

Last time I was visiting the Bay Area I remember seeing a sign printed on the window of Carl’s Jr which announced that ‘substances within have been to shown to cause cancer’ ( or suchlike).

This reminds me of a quip my friend Petko, a chain-smoking Bulgarian* immigrant once made, remarking upon all the warnings on cigarette packs which state that they are "known by the state of California" to cause cancer, etc. "That's why I stay out of California!"

(It's possible that this has some other original source, or that I actually heard it somewhere else first and then associated it with some similar joke that Petko made.)

*Educated, though, for the most part, in a Soviet Russian boarding school. In the Komi Republic, I seem to recall him mentioning, but that seems very odd, and he has a habit of making sh!t up.

DEDICATED TO DRUG PUSHERS EVERYWHERE:
REPENT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqTLsIyx3I0&list=RDrqTLsIyx3I0#t=63

An invitation to Oracers:
TURN FROM THE KINGDOM OF DARKNESS TO THE TRUE LIGHT!
Nothing is impossible!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxKuDu2Vu1k&index=5&list=RDrqTLsIyx3I0

Sing it Patty!
Let's give Orac's blog a God upgrade....
WE SHALL BEHOLD HIM
YOU don't want to miss HIM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56ovSaoWpOM&list=RD56ovSaoWpOM#t=32

"Dear God, I was terribly lost when the galaxies crossed and the sun went dark. Dear God, you're the only North Star I would follow this far. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaImtAdoicU

YOU CAN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN!
Adam Young overcomes through Christ!
MY EVERYTHING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbOcVER0WqU

"The illusion of freedom [in America ] will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."
~Frank Zappa
GOOD LUCK GREECE!

@ ChrisP

then the only way to explain the actions of people who do not agree with their troof is that they must have been paid off by Big-whathaveyou.

It's a quite universal behavior. I saw it in a different context, on different occasions when I dared to take to task some male colleagues who just spouted a sexist remark about a female colleague.
The guy had the choice between two reactions:
a - he was being a jerk
b - I have the hots for the girl

It's surprising (well, no) how many people will decide it must be (b). And that the two answers are mutually exclusive.
(nowadays, youngsters throw accusations of white-knighting. Same difference)

tl;dr: when faced with the possibility there are acting stupidly, it's no surprise people are sorely tempted to adhere to any explanation allowing the dismissal of the accusing party's opinion.
IOW, they just keep digging.

I have occasionally had to confront pharma conspiracy theories when I have to to tell someone that I work at a pharmaceutical company.

It doesn't do any good to respond with evidence--any source, no matter how unbiased, that you use will just get added to the conspiracy (the CDC is part of it!).

So, after hearing how big Pharma is out to get us, I merely put on my best lizard-like evil grin and say "If you truly believe that, why are you telling this to ME?"

It doesn't change anyone's mind of course, but it can make them shut up and go away.

I just heard, the boy who contracted diphtheria in Spain has died.....a tragedy.

@Elliott #117
What you said in your comment finally made something click for me--the response by "them" to any fact that contradicts the conspiracy is to roll it right into the conspiracy itself (as you say "the CDC is part of it!"). It's been a long time since I had any formal psychiatric training, but this is exactly how Delusion works. I haven't seen Orac use this description directly, but it seems pretty clear that it's not just a lack of critical thinking or reasoning skills that are the problem; it's that the ground-rules for the discussion are just not the same for "the other side". In some ways, it's like arguing with a toddler--you may have all the facts on your side, but you're never going to win. The toddler does not respect the rules of discourse (heck, the toddler doesn't know what those words mean), so there is no reasonable engagement. Orac has on multiple occasions described "them" as adhering more to a belief system than an alternative form of medicine, but I would submit that their behavior is more akin to someone harboring deep-seated delusions. By the very definition of the term, delusions cannot be altered by the mere introduction of contrary facts. I think that's what makes the interactions so very frustrating.

My tolerance for this sort of paranoid BS waxes and wanes, and I'm afraid that right now it's pretty damn low. I simply cannot fathom people whose critical thinking is below a certain point, just as I would be unable to fathom someone who truly believed that 2 + 2 = 5.

A fisherman finds his body with a gunshot wound that appears to be a self inflicted. Just how the hell would they know that.

How come they never treat their own questions as actual questions? By examining where the bullet went in, where it came out, how close or how far from the entry wound the stippling extends, forensic examiners can determine where the gun was in relation to your body.

If the tip of the gun was pressed right against your heart, a position from which any resistance on your part would almost certainly have moved it away, then yes, it DOES "appear to be self-inflicted". The evidence for it being self-inflicted is not iron-clad - one would not get iron-clad at this early stage of an investigation - but it's sure a DAMN sight stronger than, say, the evidence for "the vaccines I got as a child are responsible for my child's autism".

Why do they never treat their questions as actual questions? As actual things they don't yet know?

Amazingly they happen to find the gun in the river. Wow that is some amazing detective work.

*slams head into wall repeatedly, breathes heavily* No. It. Isn't. When the police go searching for something like a gun in a river, they send down divers and will have them working for days if need be. If someone shoots themselves in a river, the gun is going to drop into the river and, being kinda heavy, it's going to sink to the bottom and do a good job of staying there! It would be far more suspicious for them not to find the gun! Why can't they think past ... nrgh..... *sigh*

@AF - no worries, logical and rational thinking isn't one of their strong suites.

Obviously, they don't consider factors like those which AF mentions because the fundraiser has already passed the halfway mark to 25K USD.

Carl's Jr. is the name Hardee's operates under on the West coast. It's a cut above BK, McD's etc., and with more variety on the menu. They have a decent turkey burger. For a fast food experience to scare you toward 'health food', get something at Jack-In-The-Box, which has gone way downhill in the last 20 years.

Cali may have a rep for food-fadism, but the one restaurant that ALWAYS has a long line, at every location, is In and Out Burger. I, however, don't find it anything special. I'd rather get the reconstituted 'roast beef' at Arby's, which alas, are scarce in this neck of the woods.

"substances within have been to shown to cause cancer'... hmmm. Which substances? Not much help from that sign. I'm guessing that warning is not a government mandate, but a tactic from Corporate Legal to limit liability, and 'exposure' to class action lawsuits. I mean, there are carcinogens in lots of products that don't carry warnings. Ethyl carbamate, for example, the only by-product of azodicarbonamide known to be dangerous (in high quantity). Compared to Subway bread, there's like 5 to 100 times as much of that stuff in a pint of beer — a 'natural' result of fermentation with yeast etc. But if there a warning signs in the windows of brew pubs, they must be in very fine print.

"I just heard, the boy who contracted diphtheria in Spain has died…..a tragedy."

A couple days ago I was reading a history of baseball. It described the early life and upbringing of John McGraw (pugnacious and notoriously successful ballplayer and manager). In childhood an epidemic of diphtheria swept through his upstate N.Y. town, killing his mother and four of his siblings.

If he was around today it would be interesting to see his reaction to antivaxers.

@ sadmar:

I don't recall the exact wording but I tend to think that it meant substances *in* the food. My companion's food didn't look terrible and there was a sign about the 'new natural burger' and the non-beef options looked alright. It was too early fro me to eat though.

In California, I usually seek out ethnic cuisine- Mexican, Chinese, Japanese et al as well as Californian locavore, Wine country style and seafood- usually all excellent.

-btw- In-and-Out seemed to be very popular and prominently visible form the road..
Ooops! Wasn't that a line from Clockwork Orange?

@#117 Elliott
What you said in your comment finally made something click for me--the response by "them" to any fact that contradicts the conspiracy is to roll it right into the conspiracy itself (as you say "the CDC is part of it!"). It's been a long time since I had any formal psychiatric training, but this is exactly how Delusion works. I haven't seen Orac use this description directly, but it seems pretty clear that it's not just a lack of critical thinking or reasoning skills that are the problem; it's that the ground-rules for the discussion are just not the same for "the other side". In some ways, it's like arguing with a toddler--you may have all the facts on your side, but you're never going to win. The toddler does not respect the rules of discourse (heck, the toddler doesn't know what those words mean), so there is no reasonable engagement. Orac has on multiple occasions described "them" as adhering more to a belief system than an alternative form of medicine, but I would submit that their behavior is more akin to someone harboring deep-seated delusions. By the very definition of the term, delusions cannot be altered by the mere introduction of contrary facts. I think that's what makes the interactions so very frustrating.

I’m guessing that warning is not a government mandate, but a tactic from Corporate Legal to limit liability, and ‘exposure’ to class action lawsuits.

You guessed wrong. From the CA Office of the Attorney General - https://oag.ca.gov/prop65/faqs-view-all

"No person in the course of doing business shall knowingly and intentionally expose any individual to a chemical known to the state to cause cancer or reproductive toxicity without first giving a clear and reasonable warning…" (CA Health and Safety Code, Section 25249.6)

There is a list of chemicals that trigger the requirement that runs over 20 pages, and includes aspirin.

Not surprisingly, there are exceptions, including -

All federal, state and local government agencies, as well as entities operating public water systems, are exempt.

Antaeus Feldspar - a name I've not seen in a while, but hope to see often in the coming days.

I suspect it means The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS)

https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/

Ah, now I get it, thanks.

California has had some odd laws about carcinogen warning. I remember getting a few things that had a warning something like known to the State of California to cause cancer.

I would think basically any place that grills meat would have to have the sign as cooking at high temp makes heterocyclic amines and if you cook over charcoal you get some nice polycyclic hydrocarbons as well.

Elliott: What lame Conspiracy Theorists you encounter! They should say they're telling you about the Big Pharma Plot because the overlords cleverly hide the truth from their mere employees, especially in R&D... Unless you work for Corporate, in which case you ARE pond scum and _I_ won't talk to you anymore, either... ;-)

Dr. Chim: I wouldn't expect much relief on the Pharma Shill conspiracy front. If anything, you might be in for more accusations...

Sunshine laws make certain info more easy to get at, but you still have to go look for it. And for people who really want to look, even w/o Sunshine laws, there are Public interest investigators who dig into corporate finances and even find some of the under-the-table stuff. I mean, it's not like the regular acts of malfeasance by pharma companies, or their actual shill operations aren't pretty well documented. The "action" falls within a fairly limited range of very-high-profit proprietary drugs: meds for psych, BP, making boners, and what not. The MMR isn't proprietary, nor is it that much of a money-maker in transnational capital terms. With proper direction of the Google, you can find the legit corporate watchdog groups that follow the pharmas, and see that they've uncovered any number of 'horror stories' backed by genuine evidence... I mean, we're talking REAL Naderite-types here, who DO NOT LIKE the pharmas, and if there was any funny-business going on with vaccines, these folks would be all over it like white on rice. But they have nothing to say about vaccines, BECAUSE THERE"S NOTHING THERE!

In vague outline, many conspiracy theories seem plausible to J. Doe Public because they indict some Big (X), some part of which actually has been responsible for some very nasty sh!te at some places and times. Folks assume there's some kind of unity in the way Big (X) operates, so if it has done some known evil, everything it touches is at least suspect, if not likely corrupt. But this is a false assumption, as massive-scale social-economic structures, public or private, just don't work that way. The Naderites, though, know how corporations actually function. They do frame it from the critical perspective — 'the firm that makes oodles of wonderful products and does lots of social good here, here and here, may still be marketing something they know will hurt people and covering it up over there in some other corner'. But that reframes as 'the firm that hurts people and covers it up in that corner over there is also making oodles of wonderful products and doing lots of social good here, here and here'.

The thing about Conspiracy Theories: they almost NEVER nail the 'bad guys' for the bad stuff they actually do, but displace genuine concerns into the realm of fantasy. The U.S. government, in one form or another, has done some very bad things — concocting lies to justify several imperialist wars, for example — but, no, it did not fake the Apollo landing, or stage the collapse of the WTC on 9/11. As moon-hoax debunker s. g. collins says, there ARE real conspiracies (he mentions the Patriot Act, among others), but Conspiracy Theories actually benefit TPTB by deflecting attention in the wrong direction, and one that proves to be pretty darn silly on closer inspection.

We might think of the life cycle of Conspiracy Theories along a kind of Kuhnian model, similar to the history of geocentrism. Based on very limited empirical observation, the idea that the universe revolved around the Earth made a certain amount of sense. However, as contrary evidence began to emerge, it's adherents still clung to their paradigm, developing ever wilder explanations to account for the observed movements of celestial objects— epicycles! it has to be epicycles! The theory hangs in there, getting more obstinate and defensive, well past the point where the accumulated data passes into 'probably not' land, and only collapses when a certain massive preponderance of evidence hasbeen circulated for a certain amount of time. I'm thinking, in my own life, of the Kennedy Assasination CTs, which were widely held among Boomers (including me) from the late-60s through the next decade. But only cranks comparable to Flat-Earthers seem to be hanging onto them nowadays. People kept digging, the collected facts kept not-adding-up, and eventually the theories just went pffft.

But such an analysis would be too simplistic. Any collective project of factual inquiry is framed by larger social and cultural concerns (which is not to say any individual investigator has any specific position in/on those things, necessarily...). In the case of cosmology, the inertia of geocentrism wasn't just stubborn science, but (obviously) articulated to the authority of the Church. In retrospect, you don't need a PhD in Cultural Studies to observe that Kennedy Assasination CTs were in large part deflections/projections/metaphors for Vietnam War angst.

Why are CTs NOT aimed at the real conspiracies? Methinks the real conspiracies are both too veiled in the social realm of everyday life for us to get a good grip on them, and this vagueness combines with the concrete giant fist we intuit being at work that it's just too psychologically dangerous for most folks 'to go there'. In contrast, CTs offer neatly-bundled comprehensible explanations for everything, and tilting against imaginary windmills is a lot safer and more reassuring than actually standing up to The Man. It's feel-good theatre of dissent, with no real stakes, offering 'empowerment' (a feeling of autonomy) rather than engaging struggle for actual power (which, c.f. Fred Hampton, WILL put your life at risk), the drunk who lost his keys in the dark alley looking for them under the corner streetlamp because the light is better...

Anyway, if my 'theory' on Conspiracy Theories has any merit, the Big Pharma CTs are really warped manifestations of some other, and very real, matter(s) of social ill ease. But what? And will whatever-it-is pass anytime soon?

In the case of Big Phama CT, I suspect the root angst may not just be the concrete powers of institutions, or of larger socio/cultural/economic formations*, but may also include aspects of our own 'human nature' as well — fears of death maybe, scraping against beliefs in achievable mastery of fate borne of social privilege and ideologies of 'can-do' optimism meshed with ideologies of scientific progress? You know, we're all supposed to be immortal by now, and if I want it i can get it — my mind rules — so if I or mine get sick somebody EVIL has to be throwing a wrench into the works!

Or maybe the angst showing up against Big Pharma is displaced from visions of catastrophe and cataclysm that aren't fantasies at all. Fossil fuel dependency, carbon levels, AGW... Hey, did you see a science journal just published a paper saying the even the most conservative model suggests the earth's 6th great mass extinction is already underway? Well, those 'scientists' are spewing propaganda for Obama's soak-the-rich commie-socialist agenda, and they're all in bed with the Pharma Shills in the CDC so the thing we need to do right now is drive our SUVs down to San Diego to hear Dr. Bob expose that Nazi Richard Pan and the rest of the Dem-o-fascists trying to take away our freedom and force deadly heavy metal toxins into our kids!

Is it too obvious to suggest Denialism demands Conspiracy Theory? That creating an alternate reality centered around chimera is a 'natural' response to objective conditions that are just too disturbing to face?

With anti-vax CT now collapsing, the Pharma Shill accusations from the walking wounded in the movement will likely just get louder with desperation. And since I don't see any of the candidates for the REAL angst behind it going away, I suspect the Pharma Shill gambit will just shift from vaccines to some other new/old version of medical-establishment CT, because doctors are our interface with life and death, which terms are also powerful metaphors for our perceived quality of living, so medicine gets a lot of that angst too, and I only see that growing as the income gap continues to widen, and more or more folks' expectations of comfortable middle-class life are going into the recycling bin.

Sorry...
_________
* e,g, Back in 1984, the marxist literary theorist Fred Jameson suggested 'late capitalism' is so incomprehensible to so many of its subjects that they can only apprehend it in the mode of 'the hysterical sublime', and doing so works to "effectively [abolish] any practical sense of the future and of the collective project, thereby abandoning the thinking of future change to fantasies of sheer catastrophe and inexplicable cataclysm".

BTW, D'Ohlmsted's latest Weekly Wrap (a retread) is just a sad example of not even being capable of understanding the subject matter. Get this:

Scalia wrote the majority opinion [in Bruesewitz], which fawned all over vaccines as if they were ambrosia rather than a consumer product manufactured by a pretty sketchy crowd (big pharma).

ORLY? It looks an awful lot like an extended textual analysis of the law from where I sit.

GOD'S CURE FOR WHAT AILS 'YA:
"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine"
(Proverbs 17:22a, KJV)

WARNING: THIS IS STRONG STUFF. DO NOT TAKE WHILE OPERATING A MOTORIZED VEHICLE. P.G. Language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crjop3EJjmc

Toto was there. Check out set background at 2:17. LOL!

If Bradstreet killed himself he would have shot himself through the head, therefore he did not kill himself.
If Bradstreet was killed to make it look like suicide, he would have been shot through the head, therefore he was not killed.
Therefore Bradstreet is still alive.

Johnny #127: Thanks. I did a bit more digging, and discovered that Prop 65 warnings aren't open and shut, since disputes arise over whether products meet the exemption for "exposures that pose no significant risk of cancer." Though the State defines levels for each chemical on its list of carcinogens, lawsuits have been contested over the measurements for specific products, including acrylamide in fires and chips. Carl's Jr. did drop one giant burger from it's menu that was over the limit for the byproducts of grilling meat...

But, basically, the big fast food chains can fight against having to post the 'Safe Harbor' warning well enough, and there may be a reason ONLY Carl's Jr. seems to have it posted on the front door: marketing.

Apparently parent company CKE went from slow sales to big profits by positioning it's restaurant's AGAINST health-food-consciousness, laying on extra fat with "in your face" Pride, damnit!, framing trips to their chains as "striking a blow against the forces of political correctness", banking on the principle "the more society's nannies say you shouldn't, the more you kind of want to..."
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/189704

I still think it's odd individual products, such as anything you'd buy in a grocery store, have individual and specific warning labels, but restaurants just have the generic:

WARNING: Chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, or birth defects or other reproductive harm may be present in foods or beverages sold or served here.

As for ethyl carbamate, it is on the CA carcinogen list, though the amount in beer falls under the ""exposures that pose no significant risk" exemption. But most harder spirits enough ethyl carbamate to warrant a label (the content in French fruit-brandy being specially high). Not being a drinker, I don't know what actually does. Like restaurants that serve any food-with-carcinogens, bars that serve any drinks-with-carcinogens are supposed to display the generic Safe Harbor warning. I can't say I recall ever having seen one, but there's an exemption for businesses with under 10 employees — which makes no sense to me, but that's politics, I guess.

Orac: What do you think of Prop 65? A 'sign' of inappropriate cancer paranoia, as so many things that aren't labeled put us at more risk than getting tumors from burgers and fries — like getting diabetes and heart disease from burgers and fries? :-) Jameson actually cited "visions of cancer at the personal level" as an example of "the thinking of future change" turning toward "fantasies of inexplicable cataclysm" (I.e. he's not talking about actual cases of cancer, but a kind of obsessive fear of the disease, [maybe thinking about Cronenberg movies]...). Do you think there's anything to that? Anything visible in the way people outside of medicine interact with you when they learn what you do? If so, do you see any common threads that could be a clue to some Other Thing — not multinational capital! necessarily... :-) — for which over-concern with cancer might stand as a figure? See any crossover between high-tech fears and body horror — computer 'viruses' yielding to networked-data-cancer as metaphor, or the like?

In memory of Dr. Jeff Bradstreet, and Rev. Clementa C. Pinckney and DePayne Middleton-Doctor, both of whom share Toto's ancestors' names.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeZVLgbKTxo

Sadmar--
I don't think that I want you to talk to me, at least not until you cure that little prolixity problem of yours........

Maybe they need a sign like this at the border:

"Residents of and visitors to California have a 21% lifetime risk for dying from cancer. By crossing this line you acknowledge and accept responsibility for this risk. You have been warned!"

According to at least one woo-meister, acrylamides and heterocyclic amines, found in browned buns and grilled meat respectively, are indeed carcinogenic making a burger at Carl's Jr the very seed of death.

But I imagine that that would come off too well as an advertisement.

WOULDN'T

@ #138

Residents of and visitors to California have a 21% lifetime risk for dying from cancer. By crossing this line you acknowledge and accept responsibility for this risk. You have been warned!

I think they should develop a 100% safe California before allowing it to be used.

Come to think of it, if California isn't 100% safe in every way right now, why are anti-vaxers living there?

BIG OPIUM LOVES TPP!
Don't be distracted by Confederate flags......
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/11/business/international/us-shifts-stan…

Big Pharma LOVE$$$$$$$$ GAY MARRIAGE!

IVF Costs - In Vitro Fertilization Costs. On average, IVF cost of a basic IVF cycle in the U.S ranges from about $12,000 - $15,000. Although some insurance companies cover IVF, often they don't. When looking into the cost of IVF you will find that costs will vary depending on an individual's circumstance.
BROUGHT TO YOU BY OBAMACARE!
Having babies is now a RIGHT.
I guess we can imagine who will replace 19 and Counting..........

#120 Antaeus Feldspar

#126 Dr. Chim Richalds

#130 sadmar

Re conspiracy theories

Have a look at

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf. It is scary

@ DGR:

That's absolutely true:
it's a dangerous place- people have died there-
they have 'sneaker wave' signs and' tsunami warning' signs, 'watch your step' signs on the streetcar and the ferry and 'watch out for mountain lion' signs .I know, I've seen them. Produce is laden with bacteria. Sharks thrive.
Then there are smog, freeways and falling redwoods. Not to mention earthquakes. Hundreds of them all the time ( look it up on geo sites)

Anti-vaxxers need to wake up and start worrying about ALL of those other things before they start obsessing about vaccines.

Heh.
Come to think of it, pharmaceuticals are about the only thing I know of in which the advertisers are compelled to list the defects of their product while advertising it. It makes for awfully tedious commercials.

Imagine a world in which everything was like that.
"In the event of an accident, the airbag in this car has a 3% chance of killing you".
"Visit California--the weather is great! Experience the Big One!"

That last bit is nicely vague, I think. Leaves it up to the reader to figure out exactly what sort of big one.

Elliott #137: So you're one of those anti-lixers then? :-) Sooo many conspiracies...

Denice #139: Check the <i.Entrepreneur link. The point is, 'Yeah, CA says grilled meat contains carcinogens, but we're AMERICAN MEN and we grill, and we're proud, and only a pussy would let that warning keep them from a good juicy burger," is GREAT advertising. Classic 'positioning' c.f. Trout and Reis.

Denice #143: You forgot the fires and the mudslides. Not much danger from falling redwoods. The eucalyptus trees, on the other hand are ready to topple in a good wind, or go down in a small slide, and they shed massive amounts of dry bark and leaves that are tinder ready to go with a good spark.

jrkrideau: Thanks. Just skimmed the intro, but seems interesting and well written. Looking forward to reading it!

Elliott #144: The commercials aren't really tedious to the target audience. The admakers know that certain aspects of any ad do the heavy lifting of the sales job, while other elements are 'inert ingredients'. If the Pharma ads get the pitch and the supporting visual imagery right, the audience just tunes out the warnings (selective perception). This is especially easy for them to do, since the warnings contain so many things, and the audience knows most of them are exceptionally low probability.

See, I don't think of those things listed as 'defects'. To me, a 'defect' is a failure in design or production, not just a 'downside'. If pharma products had 'defects' I'd be scared sh!tless of them. OTOH, almost everything in life has an upside and a downside — and at one level the audience knows that typical ad/pr hype is painting over part of the picture, and that creates a level of (mainly subconscious?) distrust. Thus, Pharma ads may actually benefit from having to put in those warnings, as by 'having to be honest' and being 'regulated' they may seem to be more trustworthy, while the laundry-list of 'Might's is too much gibberish for the audience to actually grab onto a specific possibility and worry about it.

@ sadmar:

Of course, you're correct but invoked mental images of falling redwoods are much funnier.

-btw- I left out 'signs for slides' which I saw last time I was there which may have prevented surfers from driving south to Montara.

I love California.

Sadmar:
The fact that some find these ads tolerable is just a testament to the ad makers, who are trying to sugarcoat an often complex subject. However, I probably should have used the work "risk" instead of "defect".

The reason the drug ads contain these disclaimers are simply because the FDA requires them to be there. You didn't really think that the companies did this out of a desire to be perceived as honest, did you?

Specific requirements depend upon ad type (print vs. broadcast), but in general, the FDA wants a "balanced" picture of the drug's risk profile. It's a complex topic because what is considered acceptable for a risk depends upon the situation (disease, severity of side effects,etc). TV ads in particular have to give the major risks or maybe a reference to where you can find out more information. It's a big NO-NO to claim more benefits than those from the approved indication.

I'm not complaining about the rules, mind you--better to have them than to go back to the good old days of the snake oil salesmen.

I thought this was well worth reading.

http://www.backfromnature.org/2015/06/jeff-bradstreet-abuses-children-c…

It does a good job of summarizing all the harm Bradstreet has done, and his role in the Omnibus proceedings.

@ Elliott #155:

No, I don't think pharmas put disclaimers in ads out of a desire to perceived as honest. I said that the obligation to insert the FDA warnings — which appear as generic mumbo-jumbo — function to give the ads a (slight) aura of credibility. Of course, the admakers would rather not include them, but as they must, they know how to present them in ways that come across as just so much noise. I doubt the creative directors consider that this works at a more-or-less-subconscious level for viewers as a sign of 'you are protected from harm by government oversight', but it does. You can see this in the way snake-oil salesfolk try to mimic that idea by claiming their products are manufactured in 'FDA approved laboratories' and so on...

SB277 is on its way to the Governor's desk for signature. In the meantime, Anna Merlan at Jezebel has documented some of the harrassment and threats the advocates for SB277 have endured.

http://jezebel.com/meet-the-new-dangerous-fringe-of-the-anti-vaccinatio…

At its heart, the anti-vaccination movement claims to be about freedom, safety, and health, especially the health of children. But in fight around SB 277, the reality has revealed itself to be much more about paranoia, aggression, and harassment. The cloud of terror that anti-vaccination activists live in is almost unimaginable, the suspicion they feel towards their neighbors, their towns, their government. But because that fear is self-created and self-sustaining, there’s simply no way to dispel it, and the endless echo chamber of the Internet to keep it fed and growing.

Speaking of Schedule II narcotics: The linked article at the Gwinette Daily Post says that “The Georgia Drugs and Narcotics Agency aided the FDA with the raid…” which suggests that Bradstreet was involved in prescription narcotic abuse on a scale large enough to make it worthwhile for FDA to pounce.

I meant to mention this back when it was first suggested, but one of the Jezebel links reminded me of it: The idea that GDNA's involvement suggests narcotic trafficking is both unwarranted and flatly dumb, given that if, say, something suspected to be GcMAF were uncovered on the premises, they would be the ones to do the analysis and empowered to initiate state action.

I saw a you tube video online of him (I believe from 2012) interviewing his wife regarding some stem cell transplant called EMCell?? So now what is this GcMAF? It seems like every year something new is promoted. Can anyone explain this as I have no idea how anyone kept up with every treatment suggested like this. And as a side note....the wife seemed so unbelievably strange in that video. After watching it I got the creeps from both of them.

if, say, something suspected to be GcMAF were uncovered on the premises, [GDNA] would be the ones to do the analysis

Precisely what analysis they could do is anyone's guess. Even at high concentrations there's no real test for GcMAF, no amino sequence, only a blob on a chromatopgraphy gel.

But Bradstreet was buying his GcMAF from Noakes, in diluted form where the quantity per dose was purportedly measured in nanograms. Bradstreet was watering it down by another factor of 10 , because Homeopathy (and combining it with natural-chelator brain-enhancing jellyfish extract).
http://web.archive.org/web/20141203112234/http://drbradstreet.org/2012/…

Precisely what analysis they could do is anyone’s guess. Even at high concentrations there’s no real test for GcMAF, no amino sequence, only a blob on a chromatopgraphy gel.

OK, but I'm still not seeing the opiate-peddler speculation as warranted. Bringing in the relevant state agency if you don't know what you're going to find is explicable as a courtesy at very least.

What, he would have had a stash of controlled substances on the premises? It doesn't make any sense on its face.

I’m still not seeing the opiate-peddler speculation as warranted.

Me neither. It is hard to imagine Bradstreet administering prescription narcotics without bragging incessantly in his blog and in YouTubers about the miraculous results he'd obtained.

Update for concerned citizenry: alternative Doctors seem to be dropping like flies under suspicious circumstances.

In addition to Bradstreet, a Florida doctor named Teresa Ann Sievers was found apparently murdered in her Florida home. Sievers was known for practicing outside the box:

"Sievers was board certified in internal medicine, held a medical master of science degree in metabolic and nutritional medicine, and obtained numerous private certifications in anti-aging, functional, integrative and holistic medicine, and transcutaneous acupuncture."*

http://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2015/07/01/academy-cadets-se…

Not only that, Bruce Hedendahl D.C. (whose bio included a PhD in nutrition from Harvard) has been found dead in a car despite being a "pillar of health".

http://yournewswire.com/another-alternative-doctor-found-dead-police-in…

Can all these deaths be a mere coincidence, or a response by TPTB to suppress the threat of integrative health?

Wake up, sheeple!!!

*as opposed to sham acupuncture?

Note that chirobase.org identifies Bruce Hedendahl as having previously been sentenced to prison for federal tax evasion (involving a reported $742,000 in taxes and penalties), along with other interesting biographical details:

http://www.chirobase.org/15News/hedendal.html

I see you are all so proud of your genius intellects. You are just as bad as the "anti-vaxxers" you so easily dismiss. No one knows what happened to Dr. Bradstreet yet. There are many details that have not been released, yet you must assume his family knows many of them and yet still set up the gofundme to hire an investigator. What we do know is that his body was found in the river with a gunshot to the chest.. What we also know is that he was a tireless advocate for finding treatments for autism and treated thousands of people throughout the world. Go to the remembering dr bradstreet facebook page and read the thousands of comments. You may not have heard of him but he was well known in autism community and was a leader in researching treatments. Watch his presentations at the AutismOne conference this past memorial day and then decide if you still think he's a quack/con man. His passion for the research and helping the autism community, his love for his family especially his son, who went from severely autistic to graduating high school this past May (and why kill yourself knowing what that would do to your son after working so hard to get him better), and the fact that he was onto some new treatments over the past few years that are really starting to show huge improvements in autism, give enough reason to leave some doubt to a suicide. The FDA had raided him before, this was not a new thing for him to suddenly go off the deep end about. But the thought does occur that if he was beginning to "recover" or vastly improve a large amount of autistic patients, perhaps people such as yourselves would stop looking at him as a quack and start listening to what else he has to say.

I see you are all so proud of your genius intellects. You are just as bad as the “anti-vaxxers” you so easily dismiss. No one knows what happened to Dr. Bradstreet yet.

Go tell it to the nuts at AoA.

(and why kill yourself knowing what that would do to your son after working so hard to get him better)

Unfortunately, the well-being and future of one's children is not something that one always takes into account before committing suicide.

Sharknerd: "I see you are all so proud of your genius intellects"

Not really. Though we do know about paragraphs. Also, we don't go on and on in wild speculations, just by what the news sources say.

"What we also know is that he was a tireless advocate for finding treatments for autism and treated thousands of people throughout the world."

Apparently the Vaccine Court was not pleased with what he had done to a young boy (scroll to the bottom).

“What we also know is that he was a tireless advocate for finding treatments for autism and treated thousands of people throughout the world.”

What does it say about all Bradstreet's previous "treatments for autism" if he had to keep tirelessly looking for new ones?
No-one is denying that he took money from thousands of people.

the fact that he was onto some new treatments over the past few years that are really starting to show huge improvements in autism

Only the new treatments showing an improvement? So even Bradstreet's most fervent supporters accept that most of his career was a grift?

The FDA had raided him before, this was not a new thing for him....

Do tell.

palindrom:

I’m struck by the parallels between antivaxxers and global warming denialists — each group has its own central conspiracy theory.

Naturally they are correlated.

FYI his other treatments greatly improved the lives and health of his patients, some even became high functioning/lost diagnosis but not all, that is why he constantly was searching for answers, autism really is a spectrum of both mental and physical problems.
Again, keep referring to one case and ignore the testimonials of thousands on facebook.
The other FDA raid was about 10 years ago based on an anonymous complaint, they took all his computers, patient files and research, found nothing and gave all back but the research.

Again, keep referring to one case and ignore the testimonials of thousands on facebook.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

I gather you don't understand how this science stuff works?

The other FDA raid was about 10 years ago based on an anonymous complaint, they took all his computers, patient files and research, found nothing and gave all back but the research.

Ah, that must have been before the Intertubes were invented which is why it's not recorded.
(FDA records do note a 2002 seizure from Kirkman Laboratories of taurine capsules -- endorsed by Bradstreet because in 2002 it was taurine that cured autism).

Taurine's an odd fish in many ways, not least that it isn't strictly speaking an amino acid as it has a sulphonyl group instead of a hydroxyl group. I have seen it touted (by Hulda Clark?) as a sleeping aid, elsewhere as an anxiolytic, and of course it is a frequent ingredient in energy drinks (that may be to take the edge off the caffeine jitters). Despite this, I can find little evidence that it has any CNS effects in humans.

I remember taurine because of the 1980s discovery that it's an essential nutrient for cats -- being obligate carnivores, they lost the ability to synthesise their own taurine, so a lot of pet cats were dying of cardiomyopathy until the manufacturers of cheap cat food realised that they had to increase the content of animal protein.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vsdxNhEtFrY/TbNL78O1AgI/AAAAAAAAB9o/AEfcJ6iyM…

No-one bothered to research feline deficiency as a cause of taurine cardiomyopathy.

I am given to understand that Ferdinand the Bull cured himself of feline deficiency using Bach flower remedies.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_96dkAKP4Gdk/SwWTHdO6ILI/AAAAAAAAAkk/3RQ0nzdkG…

Sharknerd: "FYI his other treatments greatly improved the lives and health of his patients..."

Though the actual factual testimony from the Vaccine Court showed that the young boy was made worse, and even after years it did nothing except make him feel lousy.

Also one of the "treatments" tried by Bradstreet included exorcism, I kid you not:
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2006/10/09/dan-on-a-mission-from-god/

@Sharknerd

autism really is a spectrum of both mental and physical problems

Indeed it is,but it has nothing to do with vaccines or thimerosal at all.It all happens before birth.Either through inherited conditions or through exposures in the womb.Low taurine levels being a prime example

@ herr doktor bimler

The reason the antivaxers suggested high taurine supplementation in the first place was they believed that taurine neutralized ammonia.

It was just another hairbrained scheme to justify Wakefield and the belief thimerosal caused autism.

I quote

"Ammonia causes astrocytes to swell, which can compress the lumen of brain capillaries by nearly half. Accumulation of ammonia in patients with chronic liver disease redistributed blood from cortical to subcortical regions of the brain.Helt et al suggested immune reactions causing astrocytes to swell may explain reduced brain blood flow in children with autistic disorders.Astrocytes swell in response to a variety of neuro-toxins, including organic mercury [e.g. thimerosal] and excessive glutamate, as well as oxidants and antigens.Swelling of astrocytes is compensated by high levels of taurine, the free amino acid that carries water out of brain tissues (among other functions). Ammonia releases more taurine from brain tissues into interstitial fluid than any other amino acid.; taurine was the amino acid most wasted or deficient in urine in more than half of a group of autistic children."

Which is all a lot of pseudoscientific bull.

This proves antivaxers,even a lot of antivax doctors,don't get why imbalances,like high ammonia can exist in autism.They are all due to inborn metabolic disorders,not mercury.I know about this,because I have some of these IEMs in addition to mitochondrial disease.Metabolic autism is complex stuff.Some of what I have includes errors of the B12/methionine/homocysteine metabolism cycles.I had to learn about this stuff,because I have had doctors hand me test results and say they don't understand them,sending me home to figure them out on my own.

S-adenosylmethionine and S-adenosylhomocysteine are metabolic precursors of taurine.

Inborn errors of S-adenosylmethionine and S-adenosylhomocysteine are well documented in autism.

Also one of the “treatments” tried by Bradstreet included exorcism, I kid you not

Yep. He started out his career with the televangelist Preacherman grift before discovering that medical scams were more lucrative.

The reason the antivaxers suggested high taurine supplementation in the first place was they believed that taurine neutralized ammonia.

Bradstreet really liked playing labcoat-dress-up games and pretending to be a real scientist

When Sharknerd gets back with details of the previous FDA bust, perhaps he or she would like to address why Bradstreet scrubbed his blog clean of all the posts promoting GcMAF and promising miracle cures. Because trying to send large chunks of his recent career down the memory hole sounds a lot like someone with something to hide.

@sharknerd:

the fact that he was onto some new treatments over the past few years that are really starting to show huge improvements in autism

Since you seem to have a professional COI involving NAA, and given how long they've been endorsing him, would you care to quantify "past few years"?

No comment from Sharknerd about the recent disclosure that the FDA were specifically busting Bradstreet for his misuse of GcMAF?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2015/07/09/government-searc…

Or about his chickensh1t attempts to conceal the evidence of that misuse?

I am disappoint.

I notice that the website for the "International Child Development Resource Center" -- Bradstreet's collaborative bullsh1t nozzle, separate from his purely self-promotional blog -- disappeared some time after August 2014.
http://web.archive.org/web/20140821213331/http://www.icdrc.org/

Though it hadn't been updated since 2009, so that might have been a natural death rather than intentional covering of scat.

No comment from Sharknerd about the recent disclosure that the FDA were specifically busting Bradstreet for his misuse of GcMAF?

Hasn't there been a recent commenter styling itself as "Enchanted Villas"? Perhaps I'm mixing places up.

"Enchanted Villas" is at Emily Willingham's thread at Forbes.

I wonder if tax avoidance may have been an issue in the search as well. Let's do the math: Bradstreet treated over 2000 patients with GcMAF. The usual course of treatment was two shots per week for 24 weeks. I've seen prices between $50 and $90 per shot, which means JJB grossed between $5 million and $9 million from the injections alone, without factoring in the fees for office visits. He used GcMAF at homeopathic doses, so the cost was infinitesimal. [Sorry, couldn't resist!] That's a lot of money and some of it may have wandered away from the realm of taxable income.

Even if this isn't the case the numbers may explain his suicide: The "Brave Maverick Doctor" was about to be exposed as a millionaire many times over.

He used GcMAF at homeopathic doses, so the cost was infinitesimal.
But he was buying it from Immuno Biotech, who argued that the dilute nature of their product was proof of how powerful it was, and charged accordingly.

@herr doktor bimler

But he only had to buy one dose, pay someone at the minimum wage to dilute and shake and the true law of Woo was revealed:

"Income increases geometrically as the patient base grows arithmetically."

Homeopathic GcMAF is already a thing, and Dietrich Klinghardt holds the IP

Klinghardt has previously appeared at RI before he battened onto the GcMAF money-teat.

“Enchanted Villas” is at Emily Willingham’s thread at Forbes.

Ah, thanks. It happens to be the name of one of the other financial associations of "Sharknerd."