Longtime readers of this blog are familiar with one major kind of blog post that I’ve done periodically ever since the very beginning of this blog, and that’s the alternative medicine cancer cure testimonial, particularly breast cancer cure testimonials, but also testimonials for a wide variety of cancers allegedly “cured” by a wide variety of quacks. It started with Suzanne Somers and Lorraine Day, whose stories I deconstructed and showed not to be indicative of a cancer cure due to the quackery they were pursuing and continues to this day. Another, related category of post are early alternative cancer cure testimonials, in which a recently diagnosed cancer patient is featured in the newspapers, usually in a credulous story that frames her (and it’s usually a breast cancer patient) as “bravely” going against the establishment. I detest both of these variants of alternative medicine cancer cure testimonial, but I particularly despise the latter, mainly because a cancer patient’s best shot at a cure (or long-term remission) is the first shot. Anything that might influence new cancer patients to try quackery instead of effective medicine enrages me. I make no apology for that, because people can die from delaying their treatment.

I heard about just such a story the other day, as I was perusing my e-mail after getting out of the operating room after a long day operating on breast cancer patients. At first, I thought about whether I wanted to take it on. After all, this is the sort of crappy, credulous news story that I can practically deconstruct in my sleep after 12 years of doing this, and I’ve done many of these. So I didn’t do it for yesterday’s post. But, then, the social media furor over fake news and the particularly apt term inadvertently coined by President Trump’s advisor Kellyanne Conaway, “alternative facts,” and I got to thinking about the similarities between “alternative facts” and alternative medicine. No, I’m by no means the first to think of this parallel, and I’ll have more to say about it either tomorrow or next week, either here or at my not-so-super-secret other blog. (Sometimes some concepts need a few days to percolate, even for the blog.) However, the other thing that Conaway’s dissembling and lying reminded me was that, just as alternative facts can lead to “American carnage” (couldn’t resist), alternative medicine also leads to death and suffering. That led me to examine this case in my usual inimitable fashion.

In this case, the woman’s name is Sarah Valentine; the cancer is breast cancer; and the story appeared in the Mirror and entitled Mum-of-four battling breast cancer turns down traditional NHS treatment in favour of vegan diet: Sarah Valentine, whose youngest child is aged just one, says she is “100 per cent sure” her breast cancer is “emotional”:

A mum-of-four with breast cancer plans to cure her illness with an alkaline-based vegan diet after turning down conventional NHS treatment.

Sarah Valentine noticed an indentation on her left breast as she danced naked in front of her mum Annie Herbert’s mirror on December 3 last year.

The 36-year-old was later diagnosed with cancer and offered either a full mastectomy or a lumpectomy, and radiotherapy, on the NHS.

However, she defied medical advice by declining both options.

Yes, this story checks all the irresponsible boxes of these stories. Appealing subject? Check. Valentine is young and attractive? Check. Appealing family? Check. (Complete with photos of her holding her toddler and with her husband There’s even the angle of how she found her cancer, dancing naked in front of a mirror, to add some titillation. There’s even a photo of her breast, looking all purple and green for a bit of shock value. Yes, it looks bad, but a breast surgeon (like me) knows that this is no big deal. Sometimes there’s bleeding into the tissues after a needle biopsy, leaving a hematoma and bruises that look quite nasty. It’s a known potential complication of core needle biopsy. The photo, of course, only adds to the sympathy for Valentine being stoked by the article with all the subtlety of Breitbart News.

Being a breast cancer surgeon, I always go straight to whatever information I can find about the diagnosis that lets me know the stage and prognosis, even before I look at the quackery being indulged in. First, here is the timeline:

Sarah discovered her lump after stepping out of the shower and dancing in front of a mirror at her 60-year-old mum’s home in Bermondsey, south London.

“I thought I’d lost weight, so was dancing around a bit,” she explained.

“It was then I noticed the lump.”

Two days later, on December 5, Sarah headed to her GP, who referred her to the breast clinic.

On December 19, at Buckland Hospital in Dover, Kent, she was examined.

Concerned, the doctor referred her to Kent and Canterbury Hospital, Canterbury, for an ultrasound, needle biopsy and mammogram.

But it was not until December 30 at William Harvey Hospital in Ashford, Kent, that Sarah’s cancer was confirmed.

“I knew already,” she recalled.

“As soon as I saw the indentation and felt a lump, I realised.”

This is not an atypical timeline in the US. Here I found:

Sarah said she hopes her extreme measures will reverse the progress of her currently Stage 1 cancer, which is made up of two tumours measuring 2.1cm by 1.7cm and 1cm by 1cm.

The surgical pedant in me can’t help but point out that that is not stage 1 cancer. By definition, stage 1 cancers only go up to 2 cm in diameter. Valentine’s cancer is stage 2, stage 2A to be more precise, although the stage could be higher if it’s spread to her lymph nodes. We don’t know whether it has or not because normally the way we find out if the lymph nodes are involved is to sample them using a procedure known as sentinel lymph node biopsy at the time of lumpectomy or mastectomy. I also wish I knew what the tumor markers were. Tumors that make the estrogen receptor, for instance, can be treated with anti-estrogen pills like Tamoxifen or an aromatase inhibitor. Tumors that don’t almost always require chemotherapy. Tumors that make the HER2 protein require Herceptin. I can figure out a lot about potential prognosis and treatment from that information. Frustratingly, that information is rarely included in stories like these. There isn’t much more in Valentine’s video, but there is some:

For instance, she says her tumor is grade 1, which is good. That means it is well differentiated (i.e., looks more like normal breast tissue). Notably, this was shot before she decided not to have surgery.

In any case, this is a more unusual version of the alternative medicine cancer cure testimonial in that Valentine has refused all treatment right out of the gate. Usually, these testimonials take the form of a woman refusing chemotherapy and radiation after undergoing surgery. As I’ve explained more times than I remember, in such cases, it is the surgery alone that was probably curative. Radiation and chemotherapy are adjuvant therapies, which means that they are not the primary therapy. They basically “mop up” microscopic tumor cells that might have been left behind, thus decreasing (but not eliminating) the chances of tumor recurrence. In this case, there has been no surgery, just a biopsy.

I also can’t help but comment on a disconnect. In the story, Valentine recounts all the things she’s done to stay healthy and avoid cancer. The story recounts how she only ate “free-range eggs, well-sourced meat, and good quality butter,” and how she was also careful not to take hormones in her food and favored natural producgts. She also did this:

“I used bicarbonate of soda instead of deodorant, never had any hormones in pharmaceuticals or food, ate healthily and breastfed all my children,” she said.

“I couldn’t believe that I got ill.”

How often do we hear this refrain? “I can’t believe I got ill. I did everything right! How can this be?” People prone to beliefs like Valentine’s tend to have a vastly inflated view of the power of diet to prevent cancer. Everything is probabilities, and nothing is anywhere near 100% preventative, even diet. No, strike that. Particularly diet. Diet can decrease the risk of breast cancer, as obesity is a risk factor, but the strength of these risk factors is dwarfed by risk factors that are not under a woman’s control, such as family history. That’s not to say that it’s not worth altering diet to decrease the risk of breast cancer. After all, altering diet and lifestyle to lose weight has so many more health benefits, although the reduction in breast cancer risk is modest. Yes, you can “do everything right” and still get breast cancer. I note that in one story about Valentine it’s noted that her mom had cancer, but it is not mentioned which cancer. I’d bet it was probably breast cancer, given Sarah’s diagnosis of breast cancer under the age of 40.

Be that as it may, this is what Valentine is doing:

Instead, Sarah, from Kent, says she plans to cure her disease through a combination of healthy eating, bitter almonds and purified water.

She has overhauled her diet to eliminate meat and dairy – and says she is “100 per cent sure” that her breast cancer is “emotional”.

“I’ve chosen the natural way to show cancer the door, pronto,” she said.

“Healthy eating,” unfortunately, does not cure breast cancer. No doubt she is eating almonds as a source of amygdalin (also known, incorrectly, as “vitamin B17” or Laetrile), but Laetrile is long-discredited quackery that’s never been shown to have any anticancer activity, although it can cause cyanide toxicity. I also note that the claim that cancer is “emotional” is a common strand in cancer quackery. In particular, it is the basis of New German Medicine or its bastard offspring, Biologie Totale, a particularly vile form of quackery that posits that cancer is due to emotional trauma, sometimes unappreciated.

What she plans to do is described on her GoFundMe Page. Of course:

My treatment through the NHS will cost a minimum of 30k. But I want to do this as natural as possible and that’s where I need your help. I need to get vitamin C drips, suppliments, a water distiller, thermo imaging to check tumour shrinkage, hormone testing reports, and generally taking the weight off my shoulders financially as my regular job was night work and that meant not sleeping properly so I’ve had to give it up while I kick start healing and get as much rest as I can.

Did really love to get ‘Shake your tits’ trending as we should all be shaking, massaging, feeling our way around to spot any changes in our breasts as soon as possible.

Hmmm. £30,000 doesn’t go as far as it used to, given that, as of last night, £1 = $1.26, which is way down from when I traveled to London in the fall of 2015. (Hmmm. Maybe I should go back soon.)

Actually, Valentine’s GoFundMe page is somewhat vague. Thermal imaging is thermography, which has never been shown to be a useful means of screening for breast cancer or following a cancer’s response to therapy. Naturopaths love it, though. Drinking only filtered water won’t cure cancer, either.

Other stories revealed a bit more detail. For instance, she plans to buy a vitamin C and sodium sultanate drip. I’ve encountered high dose vitamin C quackery, but I’ve never encountered sodium sultanate. I wasn’t able to find much about it other than that it’s an emulsifier and that it might be used to remove heavy metals.

Also:

Sarah takes Golden Paste – a product made up of turmeric powder, water, oil and pepper – daily and has invested in a £300 water filter, which she attached to her tap, to purify all her water.

Turmeric extracts and various compounds from it do have anticancer activity, but it is modest at best, and the bioavailability is questionable.

OK, none of this stuff is likely to have any effect on Valentine’s cancer, meaning that she is, in essence, going untreated. What is the likely outcome? What is the natural history of untreated breast cancer? This is not easy information to come by, because it’s unethical to leave breast cancer untreated. We do, however, have some data from 100 years ago that is helpful. Basically, in the pre-mammography era, the median survival of untreated breast cancer was 2.7 years. 4% survived ten years. These are not good odds. Of course, it’s hard to compare data from the 1800s to 1930 to today for the simple reason that all of them presented with palpable masses, not mammographic masses. We also have no idea about the grade or hormone receptor status of any of the tumors. It’s likely, given her grade 1 tumor, that Valentine probably is on the more favorable end of the scale. Even so, without treatment, sooner or later Valentine will almost certainly die far earlier than she would have without treatment. And it won’t be pleasant. She could well wind up like Michaela Jakubczyk-Eckert. Alternative medicine kills dead.

I also can’t help but note that there are different levels of irresponsibility in publishing this story. The Sun, for instance, doesn’t include a skeptical voice. METRO, on the other hand, at least quotes Cancer Research UK.

The other day, I discussed the phenomenon of fake news. There is also fake medicine, currently known as alternative medicine. Both endanger lives. There are more parallels, but that is a topic for another day.

Comments

  1. #1 The Vodka Diet Guru
    England
    January 26, 2017

    In this Metro article I see no sign of her being advised by any CAM artist. At least I see no names. It looks like it’s 100% self-taught cancer “treatment”.

    Later I’ll check out the Sun article as well. I don’t want to be seen opening that website that in a public/work place :p

  2. #2 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    January 26, 2017

    This is such a trainwreck of a story. Her family has a history of cancer but she can’t figure out how this could happen to her. She also claims she will re-think her treatment if her dodgy self-treatment doesn’t work. I think we all know from reading here how that ends up.

  3. #3 Eric Lund
    January 26, 2017

    I got to thinking about the similarities between “alternative facts” and alternative medicine

    Of course Conway was rightly ridiculed for that, because it is obvious to even the most casual observer that “alternative facts” is another term for “lies”. That’s a lot harder to disguise than “alternative medicine” as a synonym for “quackery”.

    “I can’t believe I got ill. I did everything right! How can this be?”

    As you note, there are steps you can take to reduce your risk, but you cannot reduce the risk to zero. And I could obey all of the relevant traffic rules on my walk to or from work and be mowed down in a crosswalk by a driver who isn’t paying attention–I live in a pedestrian right-of-way state, so motorists are supposed to give way to me when I’m in a crosswalk, but I could be dead right.

  4. #4 Daniel Corcos
    January 26, 2017

    Did she have lumpectomy? This is not clear for me.

  5. #5 Mike Barnes
    United Kingdom
    January 26, 2017

    A few more details on the medical advice she’s been given (= get treatment!) are here: http://www.kentonline.co.uk/tenterden/news/cancer-mum-in-clean-food-diet-118976/

  6. #6 Dee
    January 26, 2017

    Thank you for being a voice of educated reasoning!! When I saw that article the other day it absolutely enraged me!
    My sister was one of the unfortunate women who died of breast cancer at 30yrs old despite chemo, mastectomy, radiotherapy and more chemo. She fought it with everything available to her and still lost the battle.
    For anyone to think that they can “cure” their breast cancer with diet and as you rightly say “quackery” is sickening to me.
    What disgusts me more is that there are many people who will donate to her cause which she will take as further support of her quackery!!
    The reporting of such lunacy just feeds into the cycle of more people believing in the “alternative”.
    Why is it that we never see reports when these people die??

  7. #7 Jazzlet
    January 26, 2017

    It is odd that she says”My treatment through the NHS will cost a minimum of 30k.” as any treatment by the NHS is free at point of use (it’s paid for through our taxes). In the case of cancer patients they don’t even pay for prescriptions or carparking during treatment.

  8. #8 doug
    January 26, 2017

    Alternative medicine kills dead.

    Those harsh words need to be used often.
    I’ve known the truth of this for many years, from reading Insolence and others, but sitting through the Lovett trial hardened my attitude substantially. I now take the position that I will use the harshest language I think I can get away with in comments I make on blogs or news sites with regard to alt-med.

    I was suspicious that “sultonate” might be some sort of weird corruption of “sulfonate.” From Wikipedia “Cyclic sulfonic esters are called sultones.” Not all that helpful, but a small clue.

  9. #9 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    January 26, 2017

    @ Jazzlet, Yah I didn’t get that and makes me wonder if there’s a scam afoot.

  10. #10 Eric Lund
    January 26, 2017

    Jazzlet@4: Good catch. Of course, it’s her alternative “treatment” that is costing her GBP30k. Presumably NHS wouldn’t pay for that, any more than US insurance companies would.

  11. #11 Renate
    January 26, 2017

    I’m not sure, but would that 30k be the minimum costs for the NHS, if she would have chosen a treatment that would be paid for?
    Even if the NHS would pay for a treatment, it still costs money.

  12. #12 Dorit Reiss
    January 26, 2017

    Someone claiming to be Sarah Valentine commented on Debunked Denialism, saying: “Hi I am sarah valentine and you are reporting falsely I have not denied all treatments and surgery I have just asked for some time. Amazing debunking youveeally could have come to me to fact check and get a real interview rather than manipulating a press association interview ❤️”
    https://debunkingdenialism.com/2017/01/25/woman-with-treatable-breast-cancer-picks-quackery-over-medicine/#comment-35788

  13. #13 Militant Agnostic
    Flatting fifths on a pavement of good intentions.
    January 26, 2017

    Renate #11

    I think you are are halfway there. I think her pitch is “I am saving the taxers 30k by getting treatment through the NHS so give me money.”

  14. #14 Militant Agnostic
    In the land wtihout preview
    January 26, 2017

    taxers should be taxpayers.

  15. #15 Redblues
    New England
    January 26, 2017

    The fact that newspapers *publish*, this garbage, and do so uncritically, would give me cancer, if, indeed, anger and “bad attitudes” caused cancer. The smug, sanctimonious, preaching of various vegan and raw food cultists is equally insufferable. I did everything “right” my whole life, had zero family history, and still was diagnosed with cancer, the day after my 39th birthday. I had a shitty attitude. Who wouldn’t? (That is a rhetorical question. I don’t want to hear about all the “inspiring” cancer patients other people have known.)
    Medicine cured me, not quackery. People think that, armed only with a computer, a belief in conspiracies, that anyone can read about vitamins on the internet and cure cancer.

    For some odd reason, people never wonder why alternative cures are so well known even though “they” don’t want you to know. How is this superior knowledge so easily accessible that a high school student can find it on the internet? Why is “alternative medicine” so expensive, when it’s “Ebil Big Pharma” that is only in it for profit? Strange how many people think that they are capable of “doing their own research” and yet never notice the glaring flaws in their on logic.

    I wish there was a way to send the quacks to jail and make selling alternative BS a crime, punishable by jail.
    That woman’s children will grow up without a mother. And to add insult to injury, she and her fellow woonatics will blame her for being insufficiently pure and positive.

  16. #16 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 26, 2017

    Eric Lund (#3) says,

    …it is obvious to even the most casual observer that “alternative facts” is another term for “lies”

    MJD says,

    It’s my opinion that Physicists are to blame. Society in general hold Physicists in high esteem for their acquired intelligence and creativity. Theories, and empirical evidence, about how the Universe works is sometimes filled with alternate facts.

    For example, light can be a particle and/or a wave.

    Can the Uncertainty Principle create alternative facts?

    If alternative facts exist in the current understanding of the Universe, can’t they also exist in Medicine?

  17. #17 ZM
    January 26, 2017

    She mentions “NORI” institute here: http://www.kentonline.co.uk/tenterden/news/cancer-mum-in-clean-food-diet-118976/

    NORI approach was earlier touted by Candice Marie-Fox, who is “Belle Gibson” style entrepreneur, building a business by exaggerating her cancer story. She did have thyroid cancer though, but a very survivable stage II papillary type, definitely not terminal, and she also had full standard treatment – surgery and radioactive iodine. She claimed that NORI protocol, pineapples and fruit were the only cure. The same blogger who started writing about Gibson, also covered her case: http://realitybasedmedicine.blogspot.de/ (you have to go a few pages back to see those articles, e.g. http://realitybasedmedicine.blogspot.de/2015/04/a-thyroid-cancer-survivor-questions.html).

  18. #18 Mark Thorson
    January 26, 2017

    We’re not going to call them “alternative facts” anymore. They’re “integrative facts”.

  19. #19 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    January 26, 2017

    I have not denied all treatments and surgery I have just asked for some time.

    Uh huh. In other words she is catching flak and is back-peddling. She absolutely denied any medical intervention until she is convinced her “emotions” and woo can’t cure her cancer. She sure didn’t need more time to set up a GoFundMe page.

  20. #20 Denice Walter
    January 26, 2017

    I too have been thinking a lot about fake news, alternative facts, alternative medicine, alt med , alt media et al.

    Interestingly, Alex Jones seems to be well known to all . I first ran across his drivel via Mike Adams; I understand that DJT is aware of him. InfoWars is crap but frightening crap.

    Another connection is RT – the Russian English language news source- quite a few anti-vaxxers followed their coverage of the usual nonsense such as the Whistleblower.
    DJT appeared on RT I believe.

    As I’ve mentioned previously, both Null and Adams have ventured into providing ‘news’ and non-health related content at prn.fm and Natural News respectively. Lately, even their own contributions have veered away from health related material ( which might actually improve their readers’ health) into politics and other topics like AGW ( Null) and societal breakdown ( Adams).

    They deliver histrionics along with spurious ‘research’ to excite their followers who perhaps might then be motivated into buying their over priced and largely useless products.

    I sometimes envision their audiences as vast collections of low information, credulous lonely people who are trying desperately to fit into a rapidly changing social scene by identifying with ‘winners’. Often, like Trumpians they embrace the nostalgia of the beautiful, simple past which had none of the problems we’re concerned with today- at least to their view. It was an idyll**

    ** an idyll reeking with sexism, racism, homophobia, simple minded solutions to complex problems, poverty, lack of education etc.

  21. #21 Roger Kulp
    January 26, 2017

    Hate to bust in here,but has everybody heard about the upcoming March for Science?
    http://mashable.com/2017/01/25/march-for-science-washington/#u4sLNjlogiqi
    https://twitter.com/ScienceMarchDC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
    One of my scientist friends on Facebook suggested everybody make Schroedinger’s Pussyhats.

  22. #22 Narad
    January 26, 2017

    Society in general hold Physicists in high esteem for their acquired intelligence and creativity. Theories, and empirical evidence, about how the Universe works is sometimes filled with alternate facts.

    For example, light can be a particle and/or a wave.

    Can the Uncertainty Principle create alternative facts?

    You should really stick to better rehearsed failure.

  23. #23 herr doktor bimler
    January 26, 2017

    she is “100 per cent sure” that her breast cancer is “emotional”.

    So if curing cancer is a simple matter of restoring one’s emotions to positivity (and, apparently, switching to a special-snowflake diet), I have to admit that receiving umpteen thousand dollars for SFA would do a lot to improve my emotional state.

    NORI approach was earlier touted by Candice Marie-Fox, who is “Belle Gibson” style entrepreneur, building a business by exaggerating her cancer story.
    ht_tp://metro.co.uk/2015/03/29/woman-says-she-beat-cancer-by-ditching-her-husband-and-eating-pineapples-5126117/

    There’s a real lemonade-out-of-lemons story. “I was going to get better anyway so I did what I really wanted to do, called it therapy, and invited creduous numpties around the world to send me money for my bravery.”

  24. #24 TBruce
    January 26, 2017

    woman-says-she-beat-cancer-by-ditching-her-husband-

    When she said she had a malignant lump removed, she was referring to her husband?

  25. #25 herr doktor bimler
    January 26, 2017

    We’re not going to call them “alternative facts” anymore. They’re “integrative facts”

    Not “complementary facts”? I am disappoint.

  26. #26 ZM
    January 26, 2017

    #23 @herr doktor bimler

    There’s a real lemonade-out-of-lemons story. “I was going to get better anyway so I did what I really wanted to do, called it therapy, and invited creduous numpties around the world to send me money for my bravery.”
    —–
    She is also training to be a naturopath. Although her marketing is nowhere near Belle Gibson’s skill level, I hate to think how many people with a lot more serious cancers might have been and will be inspired by her.

  27. #27 herr doktor bimler
    January 26, 2017

    There’s a real lemonade-out-of-lemons story.
    Also, if life gives you mascara, make masquerade.

    I was intrigued to see that Candice Marie-Fox had cottoned on to the pineapple scam, which seems to be increasing in popularity among naturopath grifters — it came up here in a story last year.

    It turns out that the “pineapples cure cancer” story was fabricated by Nieper and Taussig, where Nieper was an German fraudster-fantasist in the tradition of Hamer and Rudolf Steiner, and Taussig was a professional pineapple pimp… it had never occurred to me that this could be a job title.
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/05/19/naturopaths-and-supplement-manufacturers-in-bed-together-to-promote-naturopathic-licensure/#comment-437695
    http://eusa-riddled.blogspot.com/2016/05/i-couldnt-help-it-i-saw-third-guy.html

    Sufficiently advanced grifting is indistinguishable from sincere derangement, and vice versa.

  28. #28 Wzrd1
    January 26, 2017

    It’s my opinion that Physicists are to blame. Society in general hold Physicists in high esteem for their acquired intelligence and creativity. Theories, and empirical evidence, about how the Universe works is sometimes filled with alternate facts.

    For example, light can be a particle and/or a wave.

    Can the Uncertainty Principle create alternative facts?

    Drivel that was hypocritically written on a device that utilizes those very principles.
    There’s a whole lot of quantum mechanics behind every computing device in use today.
    Meanwhile, you conflate, in your incomprehension, the difference between scales of the quantum mechanical realm and the macroscopic realm of medicine.

    So, I’m with Narad, “You should really stick to better rehearsed failure.”.

  29. #29 Eric Lund
    January 26, 2017

    MJD demonstrates that his knowledge of physics is as extensive as his knowledge of medicine.

    Depending on the design of your experiment, light can be viewed as consisting of particles or of waves. So can electrons. These experiments have actually been done, and the results match the theoretical predictions within our ability to measure (which for some of these experiments can be quite precise). These are not alternative facts, but alternative interpretations. And there is nothing wrong with alternative interpretations as long as they are consistent with the known facts. In fact, this is how the forefront of science advances: you do an experiment where two possible interpretations (usually specific enough to be called “theories”) consistent with previous experiments predict different results.

    To take a specific example: the heliocentric and geocentric models of the solar system were equally good at explaining observations made in the pre-telescope era. However, once Galileo started looking at Venus, he found that sometimes more than half of the disc was sunlit. The geocentric model predicted that Venus would never have more than half of its disc sunlit. So Ptolemy was wrong and Copernicus was right.

    It’s true that quantum physics predicts many phenomena that are counterintuitive to somebody with no experience of the microscopic world. But it does correctly predict the result of experiments. And if the system you are working with is big enough, quantum theory gives the same results as classical theory.

  30. #30 Gilbert
    January 26, 2017

    Did really love to get ‘Shake your tits’ trending

    Error code 80085
    https://i.imgur.com/Llvx6Cj.gifv

  31. #31 sadmar
    January 26, 2017

    “Alternative medicine kills dead.”
    Since following the Lovett trial with doug, I’ve been thinking that the greatest threat of fatalities comes not from any sort of office-visit quacks, but DIY quackery. I was also thinking that cancer quackery was the exception, given the trail of bodies quietly shuffled out of The Hippocrates Health Institute. So the lesson of Valentine’s story may have less to do with cancer than what I take to be an increasing trend in the ‘natural cures’ realm – an exaggerated sense of “only I know what’s right for me” total reliance on home remedy choices gleaned through Google. Pretty much everywhere, we now see ‘regular folks’ show distrust of experts and authority figures and at the same time feel tremendously ’empowered’ by their ability to “do their own research” on the Web. ‘Empowerment’ is a highly ideological term, since it means only feeling some increase in self-determination, not actually getting any.
    __________

    This story in The Mirror is an example of what journalism scholars mean by ‘news that is really olds’. That is, stories that appear over and over in the press, over long periods of time, all following the same template, but with different names and minor changes in the wording of both quotes and reportage. (see http://jclass.umd.edu/classes/jour698m/darnton2.pdf, beginning on p. 188) This happens for a variety of factors acting together: from the ability to generate readable copy quickly with minimal effort to the power of certain mythologies within newsroom subcultures. It’s highly unlikely there’s any conscious effort to boost alt-med or undermine conventional medicine at work – it’s just a kind of automatic instinct. But this type of news-generation process is really irresponsible when it comes to stories like this, not because of ‘bad science’ (news isn’t science), but because it’s so oblivious to history as recorded in the publications’ own morgues.

    As cancer cures, “healthy eating, bitter almonds and purified water,” have been around forever, been ballyhooed by valentine-type patients in countless stories over the years. They’ve been tried often enough now, that if they ‘worked’ there’d be a record. But if the reporters did check their own databases for follow-ups, they’d find the vast majority of the few that exist follow the tragic fate of Jess Ainscough.

  32. #32 sadmar
    January 26, 2017

    If we shift the noun in Mark Thorson’s joke from ‘facts’ to ‘truth’, the history and theory of propaganda pose a possible stumbling block for the Trumpers. ‘Alternative truth’ has never worked over the long term as a form of social control. What has worked repeatedly is ‘integrative truth’ a mixture of true facts, BS spin, and a limited quotient of ‘alternative facts’. The more truth you tell, the better the propaganda works, and it’s easy enough to get the true/false mix to point to the same conclusions you’d otherwise advance with outright lies.

    Trump shows no hesitance at all to reject even the littlest bit of integrative truth that irks him, and go completely ‘alternative’ with everything. If he gets away with it long-term, that will be a first. Which is not to say there won’t be truly horrible consequences in the meantime.

  33. #33 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 26, 2017

    Eric Lund writes (#29),

    MJD demonstrates that his knowledge of physics is as extensive as his knowledge of medicine.

    MJD says,

    I apologize for responding off topic but Eric Lund’s insight into both physics and medicine earns him a chance to answer the following question:

    How can the immunity “uncertainty principle” be explained away and end this autism/vaccine tug-of-war.

  34. #34 KBU
    Melbourne, Australia
    January 26, 2017

    My mother is currently in theatre having a mastectomy and I am extremely grateful for the advances in medicine that give her such a good prognosis. Keep up the good work

  35. #35 Carolyn
    January 26, 2017

    I was cheered to see that the majority of the commenters to the article I read a few days ago seemed to think she was an idiot.

  36. #36 Rich Woods
    Not in Sarf Lahndon
    January 26, 2017

    Sarah takes Golden Paste – a product made up of turmeric powder, water, oil and pepper – daily

    I would be happy to take this daily too, just as long as it came with chicken, ginger and garlic. A few almonds wouldn’t go amiss either. And some saffron for the rice.

    • #37 Wzrd1
      January 26, 2017

      With even more saffron for tea, to accompany the fine meal. 🙂

  37. #38 shay simmons
    January 26, 2017

    One of my scientist friends on Facebook suggested everybody make Schroedinger’s Pussyhats.

    As a knitter, I’m trying to conjure up what a Schroedinger’s Pussyhat would look like.

  38. #39 Lighthorse
    January 26, 2017

    @shay simmons #34. As someone who is not a knitter, I have no trouble envisioning dickhead hats, the opposite of pussyhats, but the Shroedinger hat is bit perplexing.

  39. #40 prn
    January 26, 2017

    I would distinguish between simple hearsay, wishful thinking and alternative medicine. I think she represents mostly the first two.

    Although I think there are nutrient treatments that probably could do her some good, I can also be a little hawkish about curative surgery, or even some chemos. Hawkish, more aggressive than the average surgeon – been there (mentally) bending fingers until the better ones agreed.

    Let’s say she was “successful” with some shrinkage and even some long term stability. Instead eradicating all the cancer cells, she’ has a lot of risk she’ll have some immune equilibrium with residual disease that can be broken by infectious diseases or inflammatory events.

    I’d vote for a curative surgery with some CAM er, integrative medical applications.

  40. #41 Jane Ostentatious
    January 26, 2017

    Isn’t the Sun a right wing, working class newspaper? The owners would like nothing better than to “do their bit” to help dismantlenew nonfiction at the library the UK National Health Service by encouraging their readers to believe that they could cure their cancer and other health issues with spices, condiments and an attitude readjustments. Justify health care cuts and then a cut in business taxes. Just like in the US.

  41. #42 Eric Lund
    January 26, 2017

    How can the immunity “uncertainty principle” be explained away and end this autism/vaccine tug-of-war.

    I can refer anyone even semi-seriously asking this question to one of three places:
    1. Deepak Chopra. He fancies himself the world’s leading “expert” in quantum medicine. His site is thataway —->
    2. The seminal article “Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity” by Alan Sokal, published in 1996 by the journal Social Text. You can find it over there <—-
    3. If the first two options don’t satisfy you, then I can refer you to the reply in Arkell v. Pressdram.

  42. #43 mho
    January 27, 2017

    I’d make a Shroedingers hat out of a cardboard box, with knit ears poking out. Perhaps a tail as well.

  43. #44 Rich Scopie
    January 27, 2017

    Jane@41

    Class has nothing to do with it. The Sun is a borderline racist comic, read by arseholes. I know some very posh arseholes who read it.

    It’s one step above the Daily Hate Mail and anything published by that vile dickhead Richard Desmond.

  44. #45 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 27, 2017

    @Eric Lund (#42),

    Humorous but hurtful…

    @Orac,

    In continuation (#42), is it considered “respectful insolence” when vulgarity in a reference is intentionally re-directed toward a semi-minion with disrespect? e.g., Arkell v. Pressdram.

    Without malice, I kindly request that Eric Lund be placed on auto-mod for a considerable but unspecified length of time.

    Best Regards,

    MJD

  45. #46 Diana MacPherson
    January 27, 2017

    This woman has identical breast cancer to me. I had stage 1, grade 1 and my tumour was just under 2 cm. I was really really lucky and this kind of breast cancer is highly treatable. I too was not statistically likely to get cancer but stuff happens – the risk wasn’t zero. I had a lumpectomy, radiation and hormone therapy (though I stopped the hormone therapy 1.5 years after taking it because the side effects were too much to handle; happily my surgeon and oncologist were okay with this given my grade 1 status).

    What really bugs me in cases like this is this woman is so lucky right now! She has all these treatments available to her and she got her cancer early! Yet, she is avoiding this treatment to potentially experience a slow, agonizing illness and death. If she snaps out of her delusion, it could be too late to receive treatment that is easier to manage now. It just makes me nuts! Think of all the women diagnosed with stage IV metastasized breast cancer who didn’t have a choice!

  46. #47 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    January 27, 2017

    Without malice, I kindly request that Eric Lund be placed on auto-mod for a considerable but unspecified length of time.

    Good grief please put your big boy underpants on. No one is forcing you to read here and Eric’s response to your absurd question was far more polite than many would have been. Mine included.

  47. #48 Militant Agnostic
    January 27, 2017

    Without malice, I kindly request that Orac provide me with a pony.

  48. #49 rs
    January 27, 2017

    Would you be okay with an alternative pony? It’s just like a real pony except for all the differences.

  49. #50 Renate
    January 27, 2017

    Like those of Ponypark Slagharen?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-xxis7hDOE
    The ponys will go away.

  50. #51 RJ
    January 27, 2017

    As a matter of perfunctory charity, let me assume that MJD, despite our differences of opinions, has at some point made a worthwhile comment here.

    Regardless, all comments in my working memory are empty bullshit and sniping, providing not even dubious propositions to consider and argue. Not even wrong, just noise.

    Modifying his last paragraph:
    Without malice, I kindly request that MJD be placed on auto-mod for a considerable but unspecified length of time.

  51. #52 JP
    January 27, 2017

    I would not go hanging around Popehat with this talk of ponies.

    Ponies spell our doom. Ponies never misspell it. Ponies are the cute, non-threateningly-ethnic, but somehow vaguely unsettling cherubic spelling-bee-winners who never falter, Juda, and the word they are spelling is apocalypse. We need to tell the people. All of them, even Belgians. We need to tell them, Juda, and we need to make money telling them so we can tell more of them, possibly with pop-up advertisements and auto-play videos that are very difficult to close because it is human nature to turn your eyes away from a weeping weal upon our collective soul if you possibly can without clicking madly for ten minutes and shouting obscene gerunds. I’m not talking about the band now because I would watch weeping weals upon them all day, obviously. In fact maybe that can be part of our advertising. “Ponies will kill your grandchildren. And it will be horrible, not like watching Collective Soul be trampled to death, like this. In fact quite the opposite. Do not conflate the two.” That’s a little wordy but I’m not in advertising, Juda, you are, and I rely upon your skills for the precise nomenclature.

  52. #53 Denice Walter
    January 27, 2017

    @ shay simmons:

    What would a Schroedinger’s pussyhat look like?

    I would take a look at Todd W’s vax blog where he features woo-meister action figures where- IIRC- the Deepak one has a half dead’ half alive Schroedinger cat illustrated hilariously.

    I wanted one of those.

  53. #54 Denice Walter
    January 27, 2017

    Without malice, i kindly request that sceptics, minions and their like provide me with dinner invitations for the next year – one at a time, please!

  54. #55 JP
    January 27, 2017

    Without malice, i kindly request that sceptics, minions and their like provide me with dinner invitations for the next year – one at a time, please!

    I just made cheddar broccoli soup and am about to start on some crusty French bread. Simple, but good.

    You should come over when I make shrimp gumbo and beignets.

    • #56 Wzrd1
      January 27, 2017

      Last night, I made a roast leg of lamb, mashed potatoes, brussel sprouts and beets.

      Tonight, it’ll be a roasted chicken, mixed asian vegetables and potatoes.
      I always make a bit extra, just in case we get unexpected company and besides, it makes a good lunch at work.

  55. #57 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 27, 2017

    RJ writes,

    Regardless, all comments in my working memory are empty bullshit and sniping, providing not even dubious propositions to consider and argue. Not even wrong, just noise.

    MJD says,

    As a polite reminder to my friend RJ, I recently shared a cancer review that was published in BAOJ Cancer Research & Therapy.

    https://bioaccent.org/cancer-sciences/cancer-sciences25.pdf

    In comparison, when was the last time Denice Walter placed a therapeutic intervention for cancer in the public domain?

    Denice Walter’s use of respectful insolence, p*ssy hats, and open-ended dinner requests are not therapeutic interventions under any circumstance. 🙂

    @Orac,

    When will you tire of reading every MJD response? Please release me from auto-mod and trust the henceforth.

  56. #58 Denice Walter
    January 27, 2017

    @ JP:

    *Merci beaucoup*.
    Unfortunately, I live further away than Portlandia-
    in [redacted]

    Believe it or not, I have been trying to ‘eat better’ ( without going down the woo-begone pathway to non-SB obsessiveness) and have been including more vegetables, fruits and EVEN drinking juices! ( the stuff in a litre container that includes both which isn’t half bad).

    I promise I will not become a health nut ( perish the thought!) but I am also avoiding drinking since December as I got rather ill drinking wine one night.

    AND I am using a TENS unit on my leg which is helping.

    BUT because I am not woo-fraught I MAKE SURE that I eat something *bad* each day ( i.e. that which would frighten away the woo-besotted) so cheese as well as French or Italian pastry is a good idea.
    ( Actually, it probably isn’t bad at all because I eat rather lightweight meals and no red meat).

    AND also I do manage to get someone or other to take mne for dinner at least half the time. Moistly Japanese, Chinese.

    As for soup, I suggest you try to make a winter squash soup. There was a b!tching example made by an organic soup company ( small company- I forget their name) Just pureed squash, butter and spices.

  57. #59 Denice Walter
    January 27, 2017

    That’s MOSTLY-
    although it can be moist.

    and ME.

  58. #60 JP
    January 27, 2017

    Oh, winter squash is a staple around here. I do like to go all out when we have company, though.

  59. #61 Eric Lund
    January 27, 2017

    I am also avoiding drinking since December as I got rather ill drinking wine one night

    Anecdotally, some people have trouble with the sulfites that are added to many wines, particularly wines from California. My mother is one of these people. She has no issues (other than the usual “don’t drink too much”) with wines from her home state, or wines from my home state, but she has noticed a reaction when she drinks California wines.

    I don’t know if there is a medical basis for it, or if it’s just a spurious correlation she noticed (similar to my avoidance of eggs, which started when I felt queasy after eating scrambled eggs for breakfast one morning over a decade ago–I’m not actually allergic, and can deal with food where eggs are a minor ingredient, but I have avoided egg dishes since that day), but it’s something to look out for.

    I seldom drink California wines either, but for a different reason: at least compared to other wines I can buy in this part of the US, California wines (especially Napa wines, but it’s also true of Sonoma and mid-coast) generally aren’t as good at a given price point. For $10-15 a bottle I can get local, European, or South American wines that are as good or better than a Napa wine costing $20-25. And sometimes I can enjoy varietals (e.g., Torrontés or Seyval) that you can’t get from California vineyards at any price.

  60. #62 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 27, 2017

    Has anyone noticed that anytime JP’s, MJD’s and Denice Walter’s responses coincide this hat trick instantly shuts down any further discussion.

    Any theories on why this happens?

  61. #63 doug
    January 27, 2017

    I respectfully request that Orac post an address to which I can send a roll of wooden nickels to pay for the whaaaambulance in which MJD will be permanently carted away from these precincts.

  62. #64 doug
    January 27, 2017

    Sulfite sensitivity (not an allergy) is a real thing.
    It is known to cause contact dermatitis in people who are sensitive to it (an issue with many photo processing solutions that use great gobs of sulfites and for textile arts people who use sulfite to neutralize chlorine bleach). Sulfite, as a solution of sodium metabisulfite, used to be a common treatment for lettuce & some other things for salad bars. As an antioxidant, it would prevent the lettuce from turning brown. In many places it is now banned for such use because there are people who are sensitive to it. It is still permitted for things like raw potatoes that are cooked before serving. Epinephrine solutions usually are preserved with a sulfite. This would seem to create a problem when epi is used for emergency allergy treatment (e.g. EpiPen), but any reaction to the sulfite is trivial compared with death from failing to administer epi.

    I have no idea of the mechanisms surrounding sensitivity to sulfites.

  63. #65 doug
    January 27, 2017

    … even Belgians

    Is Ken somehow making reference to the fact that ponies from all over the world wind up of the dinner tables of Belgians?

  64. #66 herr doktor bimler
    January 27, 2017

    Without malice, I kindly request that herr doktor bimler be placed on auto-med for a considerable but unspecified length of time.
    Islay whisky is my prefered medication but I will settle for akvavit.

    • #67 Wzrd1
      January 27, 2017

      May I suggest a nice Irish whiskey, such as Black Bush?
      Although, I’m also partial to Arak, which doubles in cooking as an anise extract.

  65. #68 JP
    January 27, 2017

    I’m partial to beer, myself. (The therapist and NP have approved the occasional tipple.)

    Lagunitas makes an Imperial Stout that’s to die for.

  66. #69 DevoutCatalyst
    January 27, 2017

    Kracherl for Bimler until he starts commenting at SBM.

  67. #70 patricia
    January 27, 2017

    @#38 Shaysimmons. use shadow knitting- you will see or not see the cat depending on the angle of view

  68. #71 RJ
    January 27, 2017

    I’ll try to avoid getting too personal – I’ll talk about this guy as a specimen and won’t pretend that he is any serious intellectual adversary. Rather, this is simply to try to establish more detailed patterns of quack behavior.

    Being neither a doctor, a biochemist, nor any kind of bio-medical researcher, I am not competent to judge the worth of MJD’s publication. Though like anyone familiar with journals, I’d be very wary of anything published in an open-access bio-medical journal.

    Even if that paper is brilliant and groundbreaking, a concession I’d be willing to make for the sake of argument, it’s totally irrelevant to anything that has been discussed in this posting, and certainly to any reasonable person’s estimate of the relative merits of MJD and others as contributors to discussion on Respectful Insolence.

    Other things take considerably less competence to judge – just basic literacy. The earlier ‘physics’ comment is so breathtakingly inane that I wonder how someone could type it and maintain self-respect. I’d have to type a page to describe what is wrong with each sentence.

    No reasonable person will care whether MJD’s critics have, do, or ever will publish in biomedical or any field of research. It’s just so insanely irrelevant that it is surreal a grown-up needs it explained.

    This is not a place to discuss therapeutic interventions as such, but to discuss what should be our attitude towards pseudoscience as presented by our moderator. And sometimes to have some fun with Internet-acquired acquaintances. This is not a journal.

    Perhaps this person does brilliant work elsewhere. But he does not do any here; what’s more, the insanely compounded levels of fallacy and faux-polite sniping constantly on display lead me to believe, likely not. Who knows though; people compartmentalize.

    Mr. Lund’s discussion of wine has roughly 1.34 x 10^8 times the value of that goofy ‘physics’ comment. Is there an English word for the opposite of wisdom?

  69. #72 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 27, 2017

    @RJ (#70),

    Please understand that It is not my intent to distract, confuse, or irritate the many like-minded participants here at RI.

    Asking an ignorant question or veering off topic now and then is part of the RI experience and is often allowed by the moderator.

    The constructive criticism often expressed here at RI is valuable and appreciated.

    In this context, please critique the following introduction to a science book that I’m ready to submit.

    Healing the Mind
    Alzheimer’s Disease
    Thinking Patents (1983-2007)

    Description of work for marketing purpose:

    The brain is a masterpiece that defines your uniqueness. As you age, though, your brain may be susceptible to a terrible disease. Alzheimer’s disease is the most common cause of dementia among older adults. It is considered an irreversible, progressive brain disorder that slowly erases memories and thinking, and eventually eliminates the ability to carry out the simplest of tasks. Alzheimer’s disease may rank third, just behind heart disease and cancer, as the leading cause of death for elderly people. Medical science continues to make progress in the search for therapeutic interventions and a cure. Since 1983, hundreds of Alzheimer’s-related patents have been granted by the United States Patent and Trademark Office in an effort to eradicate this deadly disease. To better understand these inventions, Michael J. Dochniak has written this book to provide an easy-to-read, and brief, summary of such patents. Within the summaries are Inventor-Profiles and News Articles that are insightful and relevant. Impactful inventors include a Nobel laureate, a Soldier, and an Ex-convict. Pioneering inventors include George Glenner, Barbara Cordell, Birinder Boveja, Joseph Buxbaum, Dale Schenk, and Vivian Hook. At the beginning of several Chapters, you’ll discover a personal story about Alzheimer’s disease. Most important, the book Healing the Mind – Alzheimer’s Disease -Thinking Patents (1983-2007) is about keeping your brain healthy as you age.

  70. #73 Sophy
    Canada
    January 28, 2017

    Patricia, that was going to be my suggestion as well. Now I have to design one.

  71. #74 Denice Walter
    January 28, 2017

    @ Eric Lund:

    I actually go to California and drink their wines without effect-
    or I HAVE done so in the past.

    Here’s my tale
    in early December I was invited to a holiday party over in Poshtown by one of my gentlemen- the hosts seem to have enjoyed my repartee previously. I met an interesting drug rep ( who hates woo) and her husband and drank and talked with them. After several drinks, I felt oddly and later was nauseous over night and throughout the next day.

    I didn’t even want to have ANY drinks since then.

    I venture that perhaps the anti-inflammatories I was taking might have had something to do with my reaction.

    About sulfites: I know someone who is acutely sensitive to these which hampered her dining experiences- she was invited out frequently and learned what to avoid – wines, salads as doug mentions.

  72. #75 Denice Walter
    January 28, 2017

    @ RJ:

    I agree.
    As you may know, I often work counseling people who want to change careers/ go back to university/ fit into a new culture- so you can imagine my internal reactions which probably match many of your own
    .I must often evaluate/ critique potential students’ written productions. I studied these methods/ tests in grad school/ institutes of therapy, etc.
    I also assist a writer in his life’s calling. All reality based.-btw-

    Ri is a place to comment on the OP, bring in similar material for others’ edification and interact with our compatriots in the great international struggle against woo, SIWOTI syndrome and now, fake news. As sceptics, we benefit from a sense of solidarity because it is a harsh, cruel world of whimsy-based speculation and spurious research constantly being thrown in our faces. Although I do not personally do book reviews, I often alert readers to new entries that merit our attention because they emit altie nonsense at high levels.

  73. #76 JeffM
    January 28, 2017

    “Anything that influences new cancer patients to try quackery instead of effective medicine enrages me. ”

    Me, too. These stories kill me. I would have given my life for my wife to have had even a 2A diagnosis. She was 3A. She did conventional then tamoxifen. But also changed her diet and juiced. But she did get four good healthy years.

    Unfortunately, the power of social media and false anecdotes pull the patient to quackery and an untimely demise. And it’s getting worse. And it makes me sick to my stomach.

  74. #77 Narad
    January 28, 2017

    Lagunitas makes an Imperial Stout that’s to die for.

    Their pils is quite nice, BTW.

    On more crafty side, I don’t know if you ever visited that Binny’s on 53rd, but they’re moving to 47th and clearing out some fantastic stuff at half-price and under. I’d be stocking a (possibly short-lived) cellar if I had the dough. I’m trying to get a friend of mine to grab all the Bordelet 2014 Poiré Granit at $12 a bottle. Bonus: It’s biodynamic!

  75. #78 sadmar
    January 28, 2017

    @ JeffM:

    Somehow saying “I’m sorry” for what you and your wife went through seems hopelessly inadequate, but I can’t think of anything else better right now. You remind us why this matters.

    I hope you won’t mind a few questions of clarification. I will absolutely understand if you choose not to answer.

    Did/do you consider the changed diet and juicing to be quackery? What did her doctors say about them? Was your wife drawn to them via something like social media or false anecdotes? Did she, at any point conventional treatment was still in order, forego it in favor of the diet and juice? Or were they just, “well, it couldn’t hurt” additions to the prescriptions of real oncologists? If so, was that still a kindling of cruel false hope, or did it have some psychological benefit in recuperating feelings of defeat and helplessness more or less symbolically ‘at least we’re doing something, even if it’s silly’?

  76. #79 JeffM
    January 29, 2017

    @ Samar

    Diet and juicing….In the case of preventing recurrence, yes, I do consider this quackery. My wife followed the plan put in place by the surgeon, plastic surgeon and her oncologist to a tee. However, she was a big fan of Tony Robbins. That should answer your questions.

    That afternoon driving home after we received the results of her ct scan…three mets- liver, lung and spine- she said to me, “I thought I did everything right.”

    • #80 Wzrd1
      January 29, 2017

      Well, a regular review of one’s diet is always a good thing. We can sneak “cheats” in, to levels that can become unhealthy.
      Juicing, well, I happen to quite enjoy juices of various mixtures. I loathe cleaning the juicer strainer even more than I like the juice so, so it’s a bit of a wash.

      The problem is when one expects magic, when simple healthy, scientifically backed evidence is absent.
      I enjoy various herbal teas, to the point of having a literal cabinet filled with various sorts. None with Saint Jack’s warts, but plenty of others that some claim medical benefits from, I like them for their flavor.
      Well, flavor and additional hydration. I’ve noticed a tendency to not drink enough water, to ascertain from spot checks on the specific gravity of my urine and its color, which also corresponds well with the measured value.
      I spot check the urine due to kidney damage from a heat stroke, which causes me to throw a bit of protein out in the urine and hence, I monitor if for worsening, to report to doctor. I might have something to report beyond the initial report in a decade or so.
      Monitoring the urine color though, that was something I advise all to do in hot climates. That advice lowered how many normal saline IV’s I had to administer in the field to soldiers.

      Were I to be diagnosed with cancer, I’d ask my oncologist for advice on nutritional needs under chemotherapy, to adjust electrolytes and any specific vitamins that might be necessary to replace, but I’d not expect any specific information for most agents that I’ve heard of.
      If I were told to juice and modify my diet in radical ways, that specialist would be terminated for cause and a competent replacement sought. I’d also report the woo wooing to the insurance company.

      Condolences on your wife, frankly, that specific loss would likely destroy me.

  77. #81 prn
    January 29, 2017

    I’ve seen a lot of failures for straight oncology that would seem easy fixes earlier in the game if other known technologies were applied. I’ve seen pure alternatives fail, some after conventional medicine had quit earlier. Far and away, the most successful I’ve seen were those few that could diligently use both systems.

    Wzrd1: Were I to be diagnosed with cancer, I’d ask my oncologist for advice
    I’ve seen a lot of nutritional advice from oncologists that was wrong – in conflict with literature and simply reproducible phenomena, or at least severely suboptimal. I look for outside consultants that specialize in oncological nutrition. Their views vary based on their research, clinical experience and literature base.

    If I were told to juice and modify my diet in radical ways, that specialist would be terminated for cause and a competent replacement sought. I’d also report the woo wooing to the insurance company.
    We are or should be, free to choose our advisors. The insurance company should be welcome to choose their network or conditions if well understood and independently reviewed and described. The insurance company as policeman, prosecutor, judge and jury as to “fraud” is a form of fascism.

    • #82 Wzrd1
      January 29, 2017

      The insurance company as policeman, prosecutor, judge and jury as to “fraud” is a form of fascism.

      So, insurance companies are now nationalistic, authoritarian governments?
      I think that you need a new dictionary.

  78. #83 has
    January 29, 2017

    MJD@72: Please do Alzheimers sufferers everywhere an enormous fuckıng favor and switch to the toilet paper business instead.

    prn@81: Nobody here cares what you’ve seen, only what you can prove; and all you ever prove is that you’re completely full of it. Please do MJD a huge favor and go be his product tester: you’ll make a wonderful team and finally manufacture a product worth caring about.

  79. #84 has
    January 29, 2017

    JeffM@79: “I thought I did everything right.”

    You did. You all did. Sometimes today the best achievable outcome is a few extra years of quality life and a pain-free passing surrounded and supported by love ones throughout. A hundred years ago, cancer victims could only have dreamt of such an outcome. A hundred years from now, who knows what will be achievable, as long as those other killer human malignancies—dishonesty and corruption—continue to be cut, burned, and poisoned to non-existence with the absolute rigor and compassion demonstrated by our host and others every day of our lives.

    I wish you and your wife could have had more—I know how incredibly fortunate my own family has been in early detection and effective treatment, and thank Dog each day for inventing us oncologists—but long and happy life is not a thing the universe automatically hands us, but a goal we must all work with and for each other to achieve. Your story is part of this, the heart of this. Thank you for sharing it.

  80. #85 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 29, 2017

    has writes (#82),

    MJD@72: Please do Alzheimers sufferers everywhere an enormous fuckıng favor and switch to the toilet paper business instead.

    MJD says,

    Never give up, never give in – Learned helplessness is a disorder that kills creativity, innovation, and discovery.

    Therefore, we should ask the question:

    Do the toxic chemicals used in the manufacture of toilet paper affect the incidence of rectal cancer?

    http://myilifestyle.com/beware-your-toilet-paper-may-be-toxic-heres-how-you-can-find-out/

    @ has (much to offer),

    Hope your despair is temporary my RI comrade!

  81. #86 has
    January 29, 2017

    MJD@84: No despair, just can’t stand dangerous fucking tools like you. Get psych help already. Other people’s lives are not your personal plaything, no matter what your fixed delusions tell you.

  82. #87 has
    January 29, 2017

    has: been, dementia
    prn@81: Nobody here cares what you’ve seen, only what you can prove; and all you ever prove is that you’re completely full of it.
    Thanks. “Proof” is a luxury at the frontiers,which of course requires substantial support. You remind me why some at this site need a few fresh cues about reality vs a distorted, expensive, interfering formalism.

  83. #88 Denice Walter
    January 29, 2017

    * It’s biodynamic!*

    Narad, I’ve heard quite a bit of woo-tinged advertisement about wines ( mostly from Mendocino- which is – btw- also part of the Emerald triangle) that are biodynamic, sulfite free, organic and/ or green ( that is, carbon-neutral).
    There’s another appellation that’s similar but I forget what it was.

  84. #89 Denice Walter
    January 29, 2017

    @ has:

    Agreed.
    You have good sense.

  85. #90 Denice Walter
    January 29, 2017

    *Lagunitas* products are listed as being from Petaluma

    RI has a friend, Draconis, who often hangs out in Petaluma.
    BUT where is he now?

  86. #91 Politicalguineapig
    January 29, 2017

    MJD:Never give up, never give in – Learned helplessness is a disorder that kills creativity, innovation, and discovery.

    No, what Has is asking you to recognize is that you know NOTHING about anything you’ve ever vomited out of your mouth and to please shut up and stop preying on people. Seriously, dude, did you skip high school and college until the last day? Did you ever even pass sixth grade? Have you ever cracked open a medical textbook or even a journal and understood it? Or did the words just bounce around that hollow skull of yours?
    Creativity is one thing, scamming people is another thing entirely. Learn the difference bub. And while you’re at it, please shut your yap trap for a while and stop trying to fling poo at your betters. I realize that it hurts that a lot of women are smarter than you are, but deal with it.

  87. #92 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 29, 2017

    PGP writes,

    Creativity is one thing, scamming people is another thing entirely. Learn the difference bub. And while you’re at it, please shut your yap trap for a while and stop trying to fling poo at your betters.

    MJD says,

    Smart people are a dime a dozen (e.g., Orac’s minions, excluding Denice Walter 🙂 ). Creative people are one in a million (e.g., Inventor’s that I’m writing several fantastic books about).

    @PGP,

    The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, and MJD, are blind to gender and one’s resume. Creativity, novelty, and usefulness, unselfishly placed in the public domain, are the governing dynamics of our constitution.

  88. #93 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 29, 2017

    has writes,

    (#86) No despair, just can’t stand dangerous fucking tools like you.

    (#87) “Proof” is a luxury at the frontiers,which of course requires substantial support.

    MJD says,

    Who are you?

    My name is Michael J. Dochniak, anyone can do a Google search and learn about my full background and intentions.

    I’m not seeking “substantial support” from anyone and provide full disclose.

    @ Orac’s minions,

    What is gained by speaking loudly while hiding under a rock?

  89. #94 Politicalguineapig
    January 29, 2017

    MJD: Creativity, novelty, and usefulness, unselfishly placed in the public domain, are the governing dynamics of our constitution.

    You don’t have any of those three qualities. And generally speaking, applying creativity to political pursuits tends not to be a good idea. Liberterianism, and every Communist regime ever, for example. And people tend to forget that democracy and voting weren’t invented by our founders and that by today’s standards, their idea of democracy falls far short. (To say nothing of the electoral college, which was a stupid idea then and an idiotic vestige now.)

    MJD: Creative people are one in a million (e.g., Inventor’s that I’m writing several fantastic books about).

    Judging from the quality of your writing here, I’m going to have to side with Has. Writing skills are just another of the many, many skills you lack. I can only hope you’re doing e-publishing.

    MJD: I’m not seeking “substantial support” from anyone and provide full disclose.

    It’s disclosure, first of all. Secondly, you are trying to scam people, no matter what you try to dress it up as. I’m beginning to wonder how many mustelids were in your family tree. You really enjoy weaseling.

  90. #95 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 29, 2017

    @PGP (#94),

    Thanks for pointing out the error!

    Over each of the last five years, I’ve made new year resolutions to make 2 or less grammar and/or spelling errors per year

    This recent mistake is upsetting in that 2017 has just begun and I’m half way to my limit.

    What standards do you set for yourself PGpig?

    .

  91. #96 has
    wedged between argumentum ad verecundiam and idée fixe
    January 30, 2017

    @Orac: Post #87 is NOT by me. At a guess, prn has trouble spelling hir own ‘nym right.

    MJD@93: I’m nobody. Anyone can read my posts here and weigh them on their own merits and faults.

  92. #97 Niels
    January 30, 2017

    Micheal said:

    Do the toxic chemicals used in the manufacture of toilet paper affect the incidence of rectal cancer?

    I doubt it, but I know that buttsex with mineral oil does.

    We should warn ORAC….

  93. #98 Denice Walter
    January 30, 2017

    In other ( fake) news..

    AoA finds respite from obits and honoraria when Anne Dachel decries the quality of the media.

    -Reporters never deviate from the ‘storyline’ on vaccines
    – media fraud is rampant
    – the press is corrupt: “They write what they’re told”
    – Big Pharma rules
    – Trump is right

    So, a contributor at one of the most unrealistic, gossip-driven, conspiracy-mongering websites that exist at the dim and dusty outer edges of the cybersphere opines that it’s the REST of the world that’s off of its rocker.
    Does anyone else see a parallel to our current situation at RI?

    Seriously, folks!
    I should note that other alt media ‘editors’ similarly waste millions of electrons smearing the mainstream and warn their audiences about how untrustworthy most media outlets and newspapers ( which STILL exist -btw-) are.

    Don’t trust THEM, trust ME!

    I’ve been reading this swill since the early aughts.
    The irony never gets old though.

  94. #99 Politicalguineapig
    January 30, 2017

    MJD: It’s not just the errors. You’re one of the most boring people I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. You also appear to lead a fact-free life.
    My standards: Offline, I try to be polite and write a few hundred words a day about anything.I also don’t let the crazy online follow me home. Too bad you’re stuck with the crazy.

  95. #100 Johnny
    127.0.0.1
    January 30, 2017

    *Lagunitas* products are listed as being from Petaluma

    Indeed, they are, as well as a few other locations. The have a brewery there, with a nice beer garden. The beer is fresh and good, the food is fair, and they bring in a band on occasion. The brewery tours are only fair, and if you’ve ever been on about any other brewery tour, I’d say you could skip it.

    https://lagunitas.com/taprooms/petaluma

    I’ve not been to any of their other taprooms.

    In this context, please critique the following introduction to a science book that I’m ready to submit.

    Not wanting to loose my place on the MJD enemies list, what I noticed is that nowhere in the description is there a hint that the worth of the patents is explored. No hint that effectiveness, or even plausibility, is discussed.

    I could make a box with blinker lights and a headband, claim that it helped, well, anything, and get a patent. That doesn’t mean that it works.

    Not that MJD would be qualified to make any such determinations, about Alzheimer’s or any other medical condition, but at least he recognized his limits, and, it sounds, that he just printed out the results of a patent search, and added some fluff.

  96. #101 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 30, 2017

    PGP writes (#99),

    You’re one of the most boring people I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. You also appear to lead a fact-free life.

    MJD says,

    When I was in grade school my mother frequently gave me a spoonful of honey before the real academics started. She said it would stop me from getting sick. I trusted and believed her completely.

    Today, I want to believe that some harm-less alternative medicine is provided in a “I care for you mode” at a reasonable price.

    In this example, let’s call it “feel-good medicine” instead of “fake medicine”.

    These are the facts of life PGP.

  97. #102 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 30, 2017

    Johnny writes (#100),

    …nowhere in the description is there a hint that the worth of the patents is explored. No hint that effectiveness, or even plausibility, is discussed.

    MJD says,

    In simplification, once a patent is granted it’s in the patent assignee’s best interest to make it work ASAP and gain financial reward.

    The inventions commercial viability may take years to implement.

    Alternatively, others can attempt to discover an alternative best mode, me-too effort, and thereafter seek patent protection.

    Thus, patents are like a catalyst for continuous improvement.

    @Johnny,

    You can’t patent your spaghetti sauce recipe unless you’ve discovered a new end-use (e.g., foot detoxification?).

  98. #103 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 30, 2017

    Johnny writes (#100),

    Not that MJD would be qualified to make any such determinations, about Alzheimer’s or any other medical condition, but at least he recognized his limits, and, it sounds, that he just printed out the results of a patent search, and added some fluff.

    MJD,

    This is beyond doubt the best book review I’ve gotten here at RI.

    If Lilady was still alive, she’d have you killed.

    @Johnny,

    Of course you realize once I have a thorough understanding of the art, a new medical hypothesis on a cure for Alzheimer’s disease will follow.

    I’m hopeful it will be in time to help herr doktor Bimler’s great grandchildren.

  99. #104 Politicalguineapig
    January 30, 2017

    MJD: Today, I want to believe that some harm-less alternative medicine is provided in a “I care for you mode” at a reasonable price.In this example, let’s call it “feel-good medicine” instead of “fake medicine”.

    No wonder you’re such a prick, Momma’s boys are always insufferable. Here’s the thing: the things you’re trying to peddle are, I can tell right away, basically useless, and take the place of help that would actually benefit people- and you’re charging a really high price for them, money that people’d be better off spending (or saving) elsewhere. Also, you’re weaseling again.

    Alzheimer’s is not a harmless disease, and people need fact-based, real medicine, not snake oil. Sure, I resort to honey and citrus when I have a cold, but that’s because I know that whatever I do, the cold’s going to run its course, and I might as well indulge myself. You, however, are coldly sizing up your next prey, and that’s something I can’t stand.

  100. #105 herr doktor bimler
    January 30, 2017

    #80: I’ve noticed a tendency to not drink enough water, to ascertain from spot checks on the specific gravity of my urine

    I was going to borrow Wzrd1’s hydrometer to measure my home-brew’s OG, but then I changed my mind.

  101. #107 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 30, 2017

    PGP writes,

    … the things you’re trying to peddle are, I can tell right away, basically useless, and take the place of help that would actually benefit people- and you’re charging a really high price for them, money that people’d be better off spending (or saving) elsewhere.

    MJD says,

    Are you referring to the science books that I’ve written?

    The chances of this message getting past Orac is about 73 million to one. I have a better chance of winning the lottery.

    One of the books, which Orac has written about, is on sale at Walmart for $5.04.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Vaccine-Delivery-and-Autism-the-Latex-Connection/21053162

  102. #108 Politicalguineapig
    January 31, 2017

    MJD: Are you referring to the science books that I’ve written?

    You mean your nonsensical ramblings? No, I was under the impression that you’d made some dubious device to go along with your waste of trees. Or made some essence of nightshade that you were peddling as an Alzheimer’s remedy.Somehow, patents and copyrights got tangled up in that thing you call your brain. Also, dude, science does not come from your lower intestine. You’re about as scientific as Ken Ham.
    And as far as your ‘book’ goes, for $5 at some bookstores, and sales I could get three or four books, maybe more, of far better quality and written by better writers than you on your best day.

  103. #109 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 31, 2017

    PGP writes (#108),

    Also, dude, science does not come from your lower intestine.

    MJD says,

    Autism symptoms improve after fecal transplant, small study finds.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170123094638.htm

    @PGP,

    You never know?

    • #110 Wzrd1
      January 31, 2017

      Wow, that’s twice you’ve sent the same link on fecal transplants.
      Once, in reply to someone suggesting you consume it, suggesting an oral route.

      You *do* know fecal transplants are administered, yes?

  104. #111 has
    January 31, 2017

    MJD: Have you ever been formally diagnosed as bipolar/psychotic or other condition for which grandiose and fixed delusions are recognized symbotoms? Cos I’ve been mentally ill for a quarter-century and it’s obvious to me that your head is far more fcuked up than even mine is.

    If you are even capable of perceiving this, please ask for help—even just a health check—if not for your own sake then then for the good of all those who know and love you. Cos the one thing that’s worse than being mentally ill is being mentally ill and a danger to others’ health or even lives because of it, and you’re weaving all over that line as it is.

  105. #112 Alain
    January 31, 2017

    Autism symptoms improve after fecal transplant, small study finds.

    In other words: behave or you’ll go eat sh!t…What a nice way to treat an human being.

    Alain

    • #113 Orac
      January 31, 2017

      And Alain wins the comment thread!

    • #114 Wzrd1
      January 31, 2017

      Well, I do recall reading some studies that suggest promise for recurring C. Diff infections.
      I also read some rather dubious references to German soldiers observing Bedouins consuming camel dung to treat diarrhea. I don’t thing I’d suggest that treatment, considering MERS, not to mention potential parasites.

      Although, camel, sheep and goat dung did make an excellent compost, with high calcium carbonate, saline soil, peat moss and clay (from cat litter). Loads of moisture, aerate it at least daily and in a month, excellent soil resulted. At had a veritable garden of Eden in my yard, scaled down, of course. 😉

  106. #115 Politicalguineapig
    January 31, 2017

    MJD: Fecal transplants are also dubious science, considering that they’re founded on Wakefield’s “studies.” Wakey’s another person who fails to understand science, no wonder you like him. And again, please look up the difference between patents and copyrights.

    Has: I think Mr. Dochniak just has a bad case of the stupid. Although the poo-flinging at specific commentators is new, but maybe he thinks it’s okay now?

    • #116 Wzrd1
      January 31, 2017

      @PGP, not really. Wakefield’s worshipers tacked that nonsense on. There are prior works and historic works on fecal transplants for recurrent C. Diff infection and much older, far more dubious works discussing it for diarrhea.

  107. #117 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 31, 2017

    PGpig writes, (#112),

    Although the poo-flinging at specific commentators is new, but maybe he thinks it’s okay now?

    MJD says,

    I’m going to start complimenting Denice Walterrrrrrr in an attempt to help reduce the dangerous tension.

    Here I go…..

    @ Denice Walter,

    Your the standard of respectful insolence for every one of Orac’s minions. 🙂

  108. #118 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    January 31, 2017

    Hi Alain! Good to hear from you.

  109. #119 JP
    January 31, 2017

    Yes, good to hear from you, Alain! Do let us know how you’re doing if you want to.

    And I agree with Orac about winning the comment thread. 🙂

  110. #120 JustaTech
    January 31, 2017

    If MJD @85 is worried about his TP (“Do the toxic chemicals used in the manufacture of toilet paper affect the incidence of rectal cancer?”) then perhaps he should consider using “family cloth” instead.

    (And why only rectal cancer? Why not vulval cancer or nasal cancer?)

    Brilliant, Alain! Glad to see you back.

  111. #121 JP
    January 31, 2017

    the incidence of rectal cancer?”) then perhaps he should consider using “family cloth” instead.

    Or a communal sponge on a stick, as the ancient Romans did. (An old friend and I were hanging out recently and somehow the subject of what people used before toilet paper came up… Early American settlers used corncobs. Ouch.)

  112. #122 Denice Walter
    January 31, 2017

    Bon Jour, Alain!

    Decent verbal joking that’s truly excellent for an ESL/EFL person like you.
    Woo hoo!

  113. #123 Denice Walter
    January 31, 2017

    @ PGP:

    You know, sometimes you can’t get through to particular people despite valiant effort like your own. I know someone who tried to convince a delusional person that the plots/ actions he believed to be against him were not real
    It didn’t work.

    HOWEVER your endeavors will be read by others and are therefore useful.

  114. #124 Denice Walter
    January 31, 2017

    In other anti-vax news…

    Now that Dan is gone, Kim appears to be taking the helm at AoA.

  115. #125 Narad
    January 31, 2017

    So, a contributor at one of the most unrealistic, gossip-driven, conspiracy-mongering websites that exist at the dim and dusty outer edges of the cybersphere opines that it’s the REST of the world that’s off of its rocker.

    What’s worse is that the Dachelbot’s spew is so half-assed that she can’t even format it readably. I suppose it has something to do with this:

    “Please understand that my life is so centered on what’s happening to the health of our children that I don’t have a lot of time to explode [sic] political questions.”

  116. #126 Narad
    January 31, 2017

    ^ Oh, wait, the best part is the wrap-up to this senile screed:

    Either way, after two decade of failing to honestly report on a subject so vital to the our children’s health, NO ONE IS LISTENING TO YOU.

  117. #127 Johnny
    127.0.0.1
    January 31, 2017

    An old friend and I were hanging out recently and somehow the subject of what people used before toilet paper came up… Early American settlers used corncobs.

    Indeed. My father, as a youn’un, growing up on a farm in Oklahoma back in the day, also talked of using the Sears catalog, and that it was a sad day when there was nothing but the slick pages left.

    For a full listing and discussion, I’d recommend
    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/572/what-did-people-use-before-toilet-paper-was-invented

    …the things you’re trying to peddle are, I can tell right away, basically useless, and take the place of help that would actually benefit people- and you’re charging a really high price for them, money that people’d be better off spending (or saving) elsewhere.

    Are you referring to the science books that I’ve written?

    The chances of this message getting past Orac is about 73 million to one. I have a better chance of winning the lottery.

    One of the books, which Orac has written about, is on sale at Walmart for $5.04.

    Well, I admit that I don’t understand why our host allows you to spam your books, but, hey, his house, his rules.

    And you do realize that what our host wrote about your book was far from a positive review, and that your book is a prime example of a waste of money “people’d be better off spending (or saving) elsewhere.”

    Not all publicity is good publicity.

  118. #128 Gilbert
    January 31, 2017

    Fecal transplants are also dubious science, considering that they’re founded on Wakefield’s “studies.”

    PgP, with all that aside, I’d still not call such a relationship ‘dubious’. Consider how medications( and I don’t just mean antibiotics) that affect the microbiome is related to disbiosis leading to diabetes and weight gain. I don’t think the gut-brain hypothesis should so lightly be discounted soley because Wakefield embraced it.

  119. #129 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 31, 2017

    Johnny writes (#124),

    Not all publicity is good publicity.

    MJD says,

    The “About the Author” section in the book titled, Healing the Mind-Alzheimer’s Disease-Thinking Patents (1983-2007) is as follows:

    Michael J. Dochniak received a BS degree in Psychology/Chemistry from the University of Wisconsin, River Falls. Michael enjoys Science Blogs™ Respectful Insolence. Learn more about Michael at https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-j-dochniak-4363104

    @ Orac’s minions,

    I’m only referring to Orac’s posts. The comment section at RI is often mismanaged.

  120. #130 JustaTech
    January 31, 2017

    MJD, you seem to be making some argument about the relationship between the number of patents for objects to address a condition and the prevalence of that condition.

    By that logic then people only engaged in “self-harm” during the Victorian period, and never before or since.

  121. #131 Alain
    January 31, 2017

    I’m back home after 5.5 month of intensive therapy but the new laptop (ivy bridge core i7, Nvidia Quadro K2000M, 18 GB RAM and a 250GB SSD) still need 80 Linux packages to compile until it’s ready for me to post a ton more often here. Give me a few hours.

    Alain

    • #132 Wzrd1
      January 31, 2017

      Wow, but the computer fairy was good to you!
      I only got a dual Xeon, 64 gig RAM, 8 TB RAID server – dropped delivered on my foot.

  122. #133 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    January 31, 2017

    Glad you’re back among us Alain and look forward to your comments. Feel free to email me if you want to chat.

  123. #134 Politicalguineapig
    January 31, 2017

    DW: Are we sure Dan Olmsted’s dead? Any idea where his grave might be? (And no, those aren’t tap shoes behind my back, why would you *ever* think that?)

    Gilly: I don’t think the gut-brain hypothesis should so lightly be discounted solely because Wakefield embraced it.

    It’s not solely because of Wakefield. When anything achieves popularity in alternative medicine circles, the scientific community should be extremely skeptical about it. Heck, I’m still pretty sure oxytocin is made up because of the way the anti-sex crowd swoons over it.
    And it’s kind of rich, coming from you, since I haven’t seen a conspiracy theory you don’t believe in.

    Justatech: Oh, I’m pretty sure there have been a number of patents since the Victorian age in the ‘self-harm’ industry since humans are industriously devoted to getting their socks rocked.

  124. #135 Bob
    January 31, 2017

    The gut-brain hypothesis is not entirely hokum. It’s certainly true that toxins (like, serious, honest-to-organic-chemistry bacterial endotoxins) have a better time crossing from the gut into circulation in some guts than others.

    It’s also true that when you induce gut permeability in mice, you get interesting neurological effects that depend on the microbiome. Look up the work of Sarkis Mazmanian to see this sort of research done in a rigorous manner.

    I’ve always found Sarkis’ post-docs a little overenthusiastic about what they’d discovered, but Sarkis is quite well grounded, and he’s not the only PI doing serious research on this topic.

    None of this validates the work of Wakefield or any other doctor offering to treat “leaky gut syndrome”.

  125. #136 Alistair Rhodes
    January 31, 2017

    Have you looked into the casomorphin hypothesis?

    I know that these exogenous pseudo-opiates are purportedly biologically active, but they are not chemically similar to Opiates and for just that simple reason I am having a hard time accepting this.

    Does Naxolone antagonize casomorphin? Have you read studies?

    Perhaps I will look into this and share my findings. A peptide chain is not something I would expect to act like an opiate.

    But I will say, that eating cheese and wheat has that effect on me. Try to stop dairy for a few weeks and see what happens. I always just thought it was the hormones.

    And beer seems to make people a bit stupider than wine for some reason. I am not sure why this is, but it could gluten peptides I suppose….

    Who Knows!

    • #137 Wzrd1
      January 31, 2017

      Cheese and wheat? I happen to greatly enjoy cheese, bread and wine. Add a dried, cured meat, I’m in heaven!

  126. #138 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    January 31, 2017

    JustaTech writes (#130),

    MJD, you seem to be making some argument about the relationship between the number of patents for objects to address a condition and the prevalence of that condition.
    By that logic then people only engaged in “self-harm” during the Victorian period, and never before or since.

    MJD says,

    Seek clarity using well placed words in a coherent sentence, preferably in the form of a question. Important, it is proper to placed a symbol (i.e., ?) at the end of a sentence when help is needed.

    Hope your next effort using the question-format described above earns a reply. 🙂

  127. #139 JP
    February 1, 2017

    And beer seems to make people a bit stupider than wine for some reason. I am not sure why this is, but it could gluten peptides I suppose….

    Beer doesn’t make you fat, it makes you lean… against tables, chairs, and other people…

  128. #140 Alistair Rhodes
    February 1, 2017

    LOL!

  129. #141 Politicalguineapig
    February 1, 2017

    I think it’s due to delayed affects- because beer has so much more stuff in it, the alcohol takes a while to hit the system. Also, people drink beer faster than wine. No one chugs wine. They nurse a glass, and then they get another one.

  130. #142 Alistair Rhodes
    February 1, 2017

    Yes Tommy, I like cheese too. But there may be something to this opiate peptide business. I think I might dive into the scientific literature on this. I am seriously curious how they will attempt to attribute opiate-like pharmacology on a peptide?

    I mean, these are not chemically related. If you look at psychedelics, the all have planar conjugated pi-bond systems and are usually indoles.

    And now proteins are allegedly this powerful? As powerful as opium?

    And only certain protein sequences have this power?

    Bizarre. I’ll track down the original paper on this. I know there are anecdotes of gluten-free casein-free people who have progressed from autism, but there are other things in cheese and bread that could be responsible for this: like hormones and added reduced iron.

    And Gilbert’s favourite food demon: synthetic folic acid!

  131. #143 JP
    February 1, 2017

    Why do trolls like me? Is it just that I’m so personable?

  132. #144 Alain
    February 1, 2017

    I do want to chat. The buildup is done. gnome-light, chromium, libreoffice and wxmaxima…for now, plenty sufficient for most of my needs but I do plan to add a few other applications.

    Alain

    • #145 Wzrd1
      February 1, 2017

      What distro are you using? Or are you rolling your own, floor, walls and ceiling?
      I started years ago with slackware, went RH, SuSE (back before Novell screwed it up), Debian and currently gravitate toward Ubuntu.
      Along with some *BSD specialty devices.

  133. #146 Alain
    February 1, 2017

    JP, I’m not a troll and I like you 😀 beside, who could hate you?

    Al

  134. #147 herr doktor bimler
    February 1, 2017

    No one chugs wine.

    You do not know my people.
    Faecal transplants are a perfectly cromulent form of research & therapy (though I would be surprised if it made much difference to autism).

    I am surprised that so far no-one is offering designer transplants yet, from the celebrity of one’s choice. That will be the script of my next SF movie.

  135. #148 Daniel Corcos
    February 1, 2017

    I used to have green poop. Now, with faecal transplants, I can choose the color.

    • #149 Wzrd1
      February 1, 2017

      Green poop is so boring, I prefer plaid.

  136. #150 Alistair Rhodes
    February 1, 2017

    Ever play “slap the bag” with Franzia?

    Wine-in-a-box. Take the bag out of the box and you have wine-in-a-bag.

    Drink from the bag like Tom Green on a cow’s utter, and slap it!

    Do it! Do it! Do it!

  137. #151 Alistair Rhodes
    February 1, 2017

    Don’t bother with the expensive fecal transplants, just host a sodomy party. That’s what I do!

    Really good way to diversify the lower intestinal biome, and you’ll have fun doing it. Just don’t forget the Vodka and Queen CD’s!

  138. #152 Politicalguineapig
    February 1, 2017

    hdb: Chugging wine seems really unfrench.

    MJD: The point of Just aTech’s comment seems to have sailed over your head. Why don’t you go away for a few days and think about it?
    While we’re at it, can someone remove the twelve year old edgelord?

  139. #153 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    February 1, 2017

    PGpig writes (#150),

    The point of Just aTech’s comment seems to have sailed over your head.

    MJD,

    Remember I don’t think like an Orac-minion.

    Although I have a friend, of a friend, of a friend who is an Orac-minion having half a brain.

  140. #154 Politicalguineapig
    February 1, 2017

    MJD: Dude, you barely think at all, you just mistake those echoes in your skull for thoughts. Justatech’s point was that the number of patents relating to a condition are not an indication of the condition’s prevalence, it just indicates that someone has found a new way to make money off that condition.

  141. #155 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    February 1, 2017

    PGpig writes (#152),

    Justatech’s point was that the number of patents relating to a condition are not an indication of the condition’s prevalence

    MJD says,

    Thank you for the clarification.

    Please relay this message to JustaTech, in pig language I’m sure, that when a medical condition increases (e.g., ASD) the efforts to solve said condition also increases (i.e., Patents).

  142. #156 Gilbert
    February 1, 2017

    so far no-one is offering designer transplants yet

    Introducing mostly-new, partly-natural, enteric-gilded celebrity Butt Crust. You can buy Butt Crust in the bright green box with a picture of some gilded Butt Crust on the front or in the generic brown paper bag with the stain which indicates freshness.

  143. #157 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    February 1, 2017

    Alain writes (#145),

    JP, I’m not a troll and I like you 😀 beside, who could hate you?

    MJD says,

    I like JP more than you do and I’ll defend her with my martial art skills when necessary.

    @JP,

    It’s time to chose, is it Alain or MJD?

  144. #158 Denice Walter
    February 1, 2017

    re # 134

    I think that she mixes up me with another commenter

  145. #159 JustaTech
    February 1, 2017

    PGP: eep eep epp, eep eep! (The language of the guinea pig does not translate well to the screen.)

    MJD@153: You said ” that when a medical condition increases (e.g., ASD) the efforts to solve said condition also increases (i.e., Patents).”

    And what I said in my comment is that, by your logic, until there is an increase in patents, there is not an increase in a given condition. And if you follow that logic, an examination of Victorian-era patents would lead you to conclude that until the Victorian era, no one ever masturbated, because it was not until the Victorian period that there were many devices patented to prevent masturbation.
    You may have mis-understood my comment because I used the period term “self-harm”.
    Obviously this is not true (people have touched themselves for pleasure throughout history), so therefore your logic about patents is incorrect.

  146. #160 Politicalguineapig
    February 1, 2017

    MJD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_pig

    Learn something, weasel.

    Again, the increase in patents has nothing to do with prevalence. It has to do with people seeing a niche to exploit and the knowledge that most kids who are autistic usually have older parents who have a lot of money. Do you not know how an economy works? Heck, you’re trying to scam those parents too.
    Also, Alain’s much nice than you, and I bet you have no ‘martial arts skills’ to speak of. Those who have skills don’t need to brag.

  147. #161 Denice Walter
    February 1, 2017

    JP: ” Why do trolls like me?”

    You’re personable AND
    you have an ability to express yourself clearly like a writer or something.

    Hilariously, I sometimes attract them myself. ( non-existent) Lord knows why

  148. #162 Politicalguineapig
    February 1, 2017

    *Nicer*

  149. #163 Denice Walter
    February 1, 2017

    @ PGP:

    Right about patents and products

    Amongst the woo-fraught, many products are created to address unrealistic needs. Check some of the ‘stores’ at woo-ful websites to see what I mean.

  150. #164 Michael J. Dochniak
    Minnesota
    February 1, 2017

    @Just-a-pig (#157 and #158),

    Let’s not keep on about this gentlemen, I’ve read both of your opinions and wish you the best of luck in your patent strategies.

    @JP,

    If we’re getting together please consider wearing a different pair of boot. 🙂

  151. #165 herr doktor bimler
    February 1, 2017

    Alain
    JP, I’m not a troll and I like you 😀 beside, who could hate you?

    I suspect that JP’s observation was directed at the ingratiating comments from Fendelsworth’s current instantiation — before he reverted to scatological form.

    eep eep epp, eep eep! (The language of the guinea pig does not translate well to the screen.)
    The language of the guinea-pig is called “wheaking”. I learned that from BoingBoing.

    • #166 Wzrd1
      February 1, 2017

      The language of the guinea-pig is called “wheaking”. I learned that from BoingBoing.

      Ah, but what are their young called?

  152. #167 JustaTech
    February 1, 2017

    HDB @162: “wheaking” – that’s brilliant! An excellent onomatopoeia. 🙂

  153. #168 gaist
    February 1, 2017

    Ah, but what are their young called?

    Adorable.

    Or pups.

    I prefer adorable.

  154. #169 herr doktor bimler
    February 1, 2017

    Ah, but what are their young called?
    Snacks.

  155. #170 Politicalguineapig
    February 1, 2017

    Gaist: They really are. I accidentally purchased a male and female, and of course the usual happened. The babies are born fully furred and ready to run, and they don’t mind being handled, as long as mom is with them. I had to separate the male from them, as mom was getting aggressive toward him.

    hdb and justatech: They also coo when really happy.

    MJD: I wasn’t arguing with you, I was simply mocking you. You’re not worth arguing with, you’d have to learn how to think first.
    If I invent anything it’s going to be useful. Also, I suggest you, again, look at the difference between copyrights and patents. And what’s wrong with punk boots?

  156. #172 Politicalguineapig
    February 2, 2017

    I suppose it depends on context. I admire them, though I’d never wear them. (Too many laces, and some of the more fashionable shoes do not fit my feet or they pinch too much.)

    • #173 Wzrd1
      February 2, 2017

      I still have a pair of the Danner boots around somewhere, I think they’re in my storage unit.
      If they degrade, the company can rebuild them, which is an additional plus. They’re a bit heavy though.
      They did great in both European snow and desert, due to the insulation.

  157. #174 Alain
    February 2, 2017

    Wzrd1,

    Funtoo. I had tried to build linux from scratch but the attention it require to have a gnome enabled desktop was a bit too much and I needed something ready soon (I’m just coming back from an interview at the Montreal University affiliated hospital center downtown and needed to fact-check a few things). Can’t install the full gnome desktop either (some package need an X & opengl enabled cairo library while other package conflict with these settings) but I’m still building some pieces (next in line is R to do these courses: https://www.coursera.org/specializations/jhu-data-science and https://www.coursera.org/specializations/bioinformatics).

    Alain

    • #175 Wzrd1
      February 3, 2017

      I’ve started getting lazy, Ubuntu loaded on most boxen here, with Mythbuntu on various TV frontends and a Dell PowerEdge 2950 to run MythTV.
      My only Windows device was recently stolen in a burglary, along with my MacBook Pro (fortunately, I do have a Time Machine backup, should I ever manage to afford to replace that machine).

  158. #176 Alain
    February 2, 2017

    Furthermore, I plan to roll my own distro in the next 6 months based on LFS & BLFS; I plan on developing a build infrastructure for it which will be hosted on a colo server or one of the VM based approach.

    Alain

  159. #177 doug
    February 2, 2017

    In other news, Justice Eidsvik’s judgement in the case of the death of Ryan Lovett due to his mother’s failure to provide the necessaries of life and criminal negligence causing death is finally up at
    http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2017/2017abqb46/2017abqb46.html

  160. #178 Politicalguineapig
    February 2, 2017

    Doug: Yowza. I’m surprised the computers didn’t catch fire while they were typing it out. Also, I didn’t realize how quickly a strep infection could go bad. I had strep throat and a rash when I was about the same age Ryan was, but I got anti-biotics. It’s kind of chilling that it was luck of the draw that I lived and he didn’t.

  161. #180 doug
    February 2, 2017

    PGP: Strep throat is pretty common and easily treated with good old penicillin as long as treatment isn’t delayed too long. A reasonable parent will note their child’s suffering and seek professional help, as your parents did. Tamara Lovett failed to do what a reasonable parent would do an so was convicted.
    Ryan probably could have been saved if he’d had proper treatment even as late as a day or two before he died. That late in the game he probably would have required IV antibiotics and intensive care. He got dandelion tea.

    I expected Tamara to be convicted on the “failure to provide the necessaries of life” charge. One rather pointed question from the judge to Tamara’s lawyer during the latter’s summation made it pretty clear she was very likely to convict on that charge. She also sent the lawyer away to read a recent case during the lunch break on the day of summations. I took that as saying “you’re going to lose and the judgement in that case will make you see why.” I think that case was related to the criminal negligence charge. (I had difficulty hearing what Tamara’s lawyer was saying during most of his summation, which made it hard to follow.)

    As I said in my comment at #8, sitting through that trial hardened my attitude to those who flood the internet with bad advice on “alternative” medicines.

    Although Tamara won’t be sentenced until June, I wonder if her case will be cited by the prosecution at the appeal of the sentences of the Stephans for their failure in the death of Ezekiel (the Crown is appealing for stiffer sentences, the Stephans are appealing the conviction). That appeal will be heard in a little over a month. Orac discussed that case several times. The original sentencing judgement is here.

  162. #181 herr doktor bimler
    February 3, 2017

    Another US family let their son die through preferring prayer, medicinal honey and “doing their own research on the internet” to antibiotics. Currently fugitives from justice in New Zealand. Would you like them back? No-one here wants them.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/89019249/american-couple-accused-of-killing-son-worship-in-new-zealand

    • #182 Wzrd1
      February 3, 2017

      I’m sure that the good people of Minnesota would be quite glad to have them back, to keep a prison cell warm for a long, long time.
      May I suggest that the Kiwis retain custody of the children until such time as the parents are released from prison? The care that they’d receive would be far superior, considering our current governmental situation will likely allow.

      Pancreatitis is agonizing!

  163. #183 Alain
    February 3, 2017

    Wzrd1,

    It isn’t laziness, I must say that gentoo or funtoo flavor roll-your-own is riddled with conflict about features to include in software we usually use, thus, the LFS approach which I really enjoy except the constant attention given. This the reason I want to roll my own. LFS and BLFS doesn’t get in the way but it’s hand crafting all the way down.

    Mine will be simple, cmake based recipe using an usb key with the necessary stuff to boot & run the graphical front-end of cmake as a configuration wizard and then, it output a makefile to automate the buildup.

    Alain

  164. #184 JP
    February 3, 2017

    I personally am lazy. I just use Ubuntu, although I have experimented with Bodhi Linux and other distros.

    • #185 Wzrd1
      February 4, 2017

      Periodically, I’ll go on a distro sampling, checking out the latest and greatest distros out there in a Virtualbox VM.
      Most end up in the dustbin, although I do keep a few around to play with (including the latest open source offerings of Solaris).

  165. #186 Alain
    February 4, 2017

    Regarding speed bump, I just ordered a pair of 8GB GSkill Ripjaws stick for the laptop. it’ll get a memory upgrade to 32GB total.

    Alain

  166. #187 Alain
    February 5, 2017

    Science mom,

    I would have posted my email address since I don’t remember yours but given the current issue wrt fendlesworth, I’ll refrain from doing so.

    Alain

  167. #188 rs
    February 10, 2017

    Don’t quit there, quitter. Tell us which alternative you believe to be efficacious. Citations will be appreciated.

  168. #189 rs
    February 10, 2017

    “For Cancer:

    Bromopyruvate
    Methylglyoxal
    Gerson
    Rife”

    Oh my! About those citations…?

  169. #190 Woo Fighter
    February 10, 2017

    quitter:

    You forgot Burzynski. And Hulda Clark (Rife revisited). And Tulio Simoncini. And Robert O. Young.

    They’re ALL curing cancer.

    (Seriously, how can Gerson AND Rife BOTH be correct? They have completely opposite “theories”!)

  170. #191 Woo Fighter
    February 10, 2017

    rs:

    Ya wanna’ bet the “citations” are YouTube, websites and books
    (In other words, advertising)?

    Hey quitter,

    You forgot cannabis! Research Rick Simpson-he’s curing cancer!

    And what about the cottage cheese/flax oil thing: Budwig, I think? That cures cancer!

    Rene Caisse cured cancer a million years ago with plants and herbs she found in Ontario. You can buy the stuff on Amazon (to my chagrin).

    Wow, why do so many people have cancer with all these famous, readily available cures on YouTube?

  171. #192 quitter
    February 10, 2017

    You forgot Burzynski. And Hulda Clark (Rife revisited). And Tulio Simoncini. And Robert O. Young.

    No I didn’t.

    (Seriously, how can Gerson AND Rife BOTH be correct? They have completely opposite “theories”!)

    Elaborate please.

    You forgot cannabis!

    No I didn’t.

    Wow, why do so many people have cancer with all these famous, readily available cures on YouTube?

    Because they are kept in the dark by cocksucking propagandists like you.

  172. #193 JP
    February 10, 2017

    I suspect another Fendelsworth sock.

  173. #194 Alain
    February 10, 2017

    I bow to my benevolent host Lord Draconis Zeneca for the power to influence and direct medical research according to our wishes.

    Alain

  174. #195 Gilbert
    February 10, 2017

    You forgot cannabis! Research Rick Simpson-he’s curing cancer!

    Quite.

    UK drugmaker GW Pharmaceuticals announced Tuesday it has achieved positive results in the second phase of a clinical study on Glioma, a cannabinoid-based therapy aimed at treating an aggressive form of brain cancer.

    https://www.leafly.com/news/health/cannabis-drug-extend-lives-brain-cancer-patients-study-finds

    “We believe that the signals of efficacy demonstrated in this study further reinforce the potential role of cannabinoids in the field of oncology and provide GW with the prospect of a new and distinct cannabinoid product candidate in the treatment of glioma,”

    http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/gw-pharmaceuticals-marijuana-brain-cancer/

  175. #196 Woo Fighter
    February 10, 2017

    JP:

    Thanks, in that case I won’t bother to engage.

    I thought he only showed up on vaccination threads.

  176. #197 Narad
    February 10, 2017

    Because they are kept in the dark by cocksucking propagandists like you.

    Always a curious choice for an attempted insult.

  177. #198 herr doktor bimler
    February 10, 2017

    (Seriously, how can Gerson AND Rife BOTH be correct? They have completely opposite “theories”!)

    I am always impressed by those Alternative Cancer Conferences where sales-reps from Burzynski and Gerson clinics and Gonzalez and Laetrile and CanCell get together to promote their various scams in an atmosphere of collegial comity and professional courtesy, unconcerned by the mutually-incompatible nature of their views on human physiology.

    I guess they agree on the main thing, i.e. the importance of persuading potential customers away from mainstream oncology. After that a customer may go first to a rival quack, but there is always the chance that he or she will come to you later, for there is the reassuring knowledge at these conferences that none of the snake-oils work.

  178. #199 Woo Fighter
    February 10, 2017

    I know! I once speculated about the conversation they would have around the bar (organic juice bar, most likely) at one of those conventions.

    Of course quitter would say they all have different means of accomplishing the same thing, i.e. removing the “toxins” that cause cancer. Whether through a Radio Shack e-meter that “zaps” them or flushing them out by shooting coffee up the wazoo.

    But Hulda says it’s a fluke and Simoncini says it’s a fungus and the New German folks say it’s all stress and past traumas.

  179. #200 Dangerous Bacon
    February 10, 2017

    Given the level of paranoia in woo-land about cellphone radiation, electromagnetic pollution, chemtrails etc., I’m always amazed that people feel comfortable zapping themselves with Rife rays.

    Have they considered the dreadful possibility that vengeful neighbors who have their own Rife machines are secretly targeting them* with frequencies that encourage the growth of Morgellons critters and Demodex**?

    *the federal government does this too, in vehicles cleverly disguised as mail trucks.
    **I have exchanged pleasantries online with a guy who believes his body is infested with Demodex and employs an amazing array of supplements to combat them.

  180. #201 Chris
    February 10, 2017

    Narad: “Always a curious choice for an attempted insult”

    It is par for the course for Travis Schwochert, the troll from Wisconsin. That is how that window washer rolls.

  181. #202 Woo Fighter
    February 11, 2017

    Dangerous Bacon,

    Another contradiction I’ve found amusing is the alties’ rabid fear of anything acid (i.e. the alkaline myth), yet their cure for everything is massive doses of vitamin C, i.e. ascorbic ACID.

  182. #203 herr doktor bimler
    February 11, 2017

    Have they considered the dreadful possibility that vengeful neighbors who have their own Rife machines are secretly targeting them* with frequencies that encourage the growth of Morgellons critters and Demodex**?

    I honestly had no intention of irradiating my neighbours with my mis-tuned Hulda Clark Zapper.
    It was a fluke accident.

  183. #204 Richard
    Netherlands
    February 11, 2017

    @Dangerous Bacon, #200

    Have they considered the dreadful possibility that vengeful neighbors who have their own Rife machines are secretly targeting them* with frequencies that encourage the growth of Morgellons critters and Demodex**?

    Actually, you’re closer to the truth than you may think. As an electronics/biomedical expert, I am sometimes consulted by people who think they have electromagnetic hypersensitivity, and that their neighbor is deliberately exposing them to ‘radiation’, causing a whole gamut of sometimes debilitating symptoms. On several occasions, I visited these people to show them that they are in fact not sensitive to electromagnetic fields at all, using a broadband RF power meter — a simple, cheap device that reliably shows the presence and strength of any electromagnetic field in a very wide frequency range.
    Yet even when I gave these people their own RF meter, so that they could check for days on end whether the onset of symptoms correlated with the presence of EM fields (which, of course, usually wasn’t the case), they would more often than not still hold on to their belief that ‘cell phone radiation’ had something to do with their symptoms.
    And at least two of these people actually moved home in order to get away from the neighbor they thought was making their life a misery with his nefarious radiation-related activities — after which, of course, they claimed to be feeling a lot better…

    I’m still thinking how these people could have been helped in a better way.

    • #205 Wzrd1
      February 11, 2017

      I wonder how many of those who moved and their condition improved may have just had garden variety allergies or a sensitivity to things like carpet adhesive?

  184. #206 Dangerous Bacon
    February 12, 2017

    I don’t know if this ovarian cancer patient’s “journey” through the world of alt-oncology (after rejecting chemotherapy) has been discussed here, but it seems drearily familiar.

    “I chose to do different therapies rather than just go with one therapy,” she said.”

    “I did juicing, carrot juice, kale, celery, pomegranate … basically vegetable juices. I did the coffee enema. I did the black salve.”

    “The treatments didn’t make her feel any better and her tumour markers, a sign of cancer activity, kept rising consistently. But Desiree believed her alternative health practitioners when they reassured her.”

    “They told her the rising tumour markers were a sign her body was responding to the treatment. The worsening wound in her abdomen, where she was applying the corrosive black salve ointment, was a good sign.”

    “But the cancer never responded to these alternative therapies, the blood test results never improved and the tumour was never expelled. Instead, Desiree was left with a gaping wound in her abdomen.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2017-02-12/illness-in-the-family-desiree-leslie-lobo/8259736?pfmredir=ms

    I wonder if the alt-cancer cure folks will use this case as an example of improved quality of life through avoidance of mainstream medicine.

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