I must admit, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., environmentalist and, unfortunately, antivaccine crank of the thimerosal fear mongering variety, has been rather busy lately. After having gone mostly silent on vaccine issues compared to his original flurry of misinformation and conspiracy mongering back that began back in 2005, several years past with almost nary a word from the lesser scion of a great American family on vaccines. This was a very good thing. Then, in 2014, he decided to reappear, co-authoring an antivaccine book with functional medicine quack Mark Hyman, a book with mouthful of a title, Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak: Mercury Toxicity in Vaccines and the Political, Regulatory, and Media Failures That Continue to Threaten Public Health. Not surprisingly, it was chock full of antivaccine misinformation and claims that the mercury-containing thimerosal preservative that was in some childhood vaccines until around 2002 caused all sorts of horrible neurological problems in children. It didn’t, nor did it cause autism. The idea that thimerosal-containing vaccines cause autism is a failed hypothesis.

Still, none of this stopped RFK Jr. from throwing himself back into the science fray on the side of pseudoscience that has the potential to lead to the deaths of children. In 2015, he teamed up with the Nation of Islam to “protest” at the CDC headquarters and promote antivaccine pseudoscience. Then, after the election of Donald Trump, who himself has a long, sordid history of antivaccine beliefs, he somehow scored a meeting with the President-Elect. What, exactly, they talked about is not clear, but according to RFK Jr. Trump offered him the chair of a new commission on vaccine safety. The Trump administration denied that any offer was made and said they spoke about autism. Whatever they discussed, from my perspective it’s just bad enough that Trump would meet with someone like RFK Jr. to discuss vaccines or autism, given his utter lack of qualifications on both subjects. Since then, RFK Jr. has been trying to gather stories of “vaccine injury” to use to change federal vaccine policy; that is, when he’s not flogging risibly bad science claiming to find a link between thimerosal in vaccines and neuropsychiatric conditions other than autism. Basically, RFK Jr. has never met a scientific study he didn’t like, no matter how bad or how incompetently designed and carried out, as long as it confirms his idée fixe that vaccines cause serious neurological harm.

Now he’s at it again. Through his World Mercury Project, he’s announced a PR scam worthy of Jock Doubleday’s vaccine challenge. Doubleday’s challenge wasn’t sincere, and I highly doubt that this one is either. In any case, RFK held a press conference with several of the usual suspects when it comes to antivaccine conspiracy mongering. The video is on Facebook:

Yes, look who’s there: Sharyl Attkisson, who’s been spewing antivaccine misinformation for at least a decade; Del Bigtree, one of the producers of VAXXED, an antivaccine propaganda film so overwrought that it would make Leni Riefenstahl suggest that he tone it down a bit; and, from beyond the grave, former NIH director Bernadine Healy, who before her death started to fall in with the antivaccine crowd. And that’s just in the first few minutes of a painful, hourlong press conference. I can’t help but laugh when I watch Healy say that no one is going to turn their backs on vaccines. Of course they are! They’re doing it now! She was either naive or clueless (take your pick).

Much of the rest of this video was painful to watch and listen to because RFK Jr. is painful to listen to. I laughed again when RFK Jr. bragged about how he read the science “intensively,” because I remember the scientific nonsense he spewed in 2005 and his love of an equally bad bit of science just last week. Basically, RFK Jr. wouldn’t know good science if it bit him in his posterior. He also seems unable to understand that, just because the parents who came up to him trying to tell him that mercury causes autism weren’t all raving lunatics, that doesn’t mean that they know what they are talking about. This is an error RFK Jr. has been making for, yes, at least a decade. In any case, in the press conference, RFK Jr. announced a $100,000 “challenge.” What that challenge is I’ll discuss in more detail momentarily, but in the meantime, this is the image he used to illustrate the challenge:

On the right, he lists 243 scientific papers showing neurotoxicity from thimerosal. In the middle, he lists “over 80” studies allegedly showing a link between mercury and autism. On the left, he claims to be illustrating that there are no studies showing that thimerosal is safe. Remember what I said about how RFK Jr. is clueless about science? This image, as much as anything he said, demonstrates that cluelessness perfectly. That’s because it’s the quality, not the quantity, of studies that counts for more. Sure, there are probably over 80 papers claiming to show a link between mercury in vaccines and autism. I’ve probably read nearly all of them at one time or another over the last 12 years. They’re all uniformly crappy, done by biased, incompetent “scientists,” such as Mark and David Geier, Boyd Haley, Jeff Bradstreet, Christopher Shaw, and the usual suspects in the world of dubious antivaccine studies. I suppose such an image makes a simple (simplistic, actually) image to illustrate a point, but it’s a profoundly deceptive image and point. He then doubles down on the usual antivaccine trope that “genes don’t cause epidemics,” completely misunderstanding how the fact that autism diagnoses have increased greatly does not necessarily mean that the true prevalence of autism has actually increased. He even cites ridiculous “science” claiming that estrogen somehow “wraps around mercury” and protects the female brain. I wonder if he’s misinterpreting Mark and David Geier’s infamous claims that testosterone binds to mercury as “sheets” and makes it harder to chelate, an idea that led them to propose chemical castration with Lupron as a treatment for autism that allows chelation therapy to more efficiently remove mercury.

So here’s the actual challenge:

We hereby issue a challenge to American journalists (and others) who have been assuring the public about the safety of mercury in vaccines. We will pay $100,000 to the first journalist, or other individual, who can point to a peer-reviewed scientific study demonstrating that thimerosal is safe in the amounts contained in vaccines currently being administered to American children and pregnant women.

There’s an open letter as well from RFK Jr. and Robert De Niro. Hilariously, RFK Jr. once again claims that he’s not antivaccine but “provaccine.” I can only be grateful that he restrained himself from using the usual term he likes to use to describe himself, namely “fiercly pro-vaccine,” a lie or self-delusion so flagrant that it threatens to cause a crack in the space-time continuum every time RFK Jr. says it. Let’s just put it this way. If RFK Jr. were so pro-vaccine, he wouldn’t so completely buy into the latest antivaccine conspiracy theory, that of the “CDC whistleblower.” I’ve dealt with that conspiracy theory now more times than I can remember, and the actual documents dumped by William Thompson (the CDC scientist and so-called “CDC whistleblower”) showed no conspiracy to cover up evidence that vaccines cause autism. It’s baseless nonsense that was at the heart of VAXXED.

We are both pro-vaccine. We need to say this at the outset to contravene the reflexive public relations ploy of labeling every vaccine safety advocate “anti-vaccine.” As the British Medical Journal pointed out last week, that epithet is a derogatory attack designed to marginalize vaccine safety advocates and derail reasoned debate:

“It stigmatizes the mere act of even asking an open question about what is known and unknown about the safety of vaccines.”

Both of us had all of our children vaccinated and we support policies that promote vaccine coverage. We want vaccines that are as safe as possible, robust transparent science and vigorous oversight by independent regulators who are free from corrupting conflicts-of-interest.

Despite the cascade of recent science confirming that thimerosal is a potent neurotoxin that damages children’s brains, the American media has fiercely defended the orthodoxy that mercury-based vaccines are safe. We believe that even a meager effort at homework will expose that contention as unsupported by science. In just the past month, a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) review confirmed thimerosal’s profound neurotoxicity and a Yale University study connected vaccines to neurological illnesses including OCD, anorexia and tics.

Of course, RFK Jr. failed to note that the article from the BMJ he’s citing is by Peter Doshi, who’s well known in the provaccine community as someone who’s parroted more than a few antivaccine talking points himself and try to portray himself as an authority on influenza and the flu vaccine. He’s also given a talk to at least one antivaccine crank conference. So it’s not at all surprising that Doshi would play the victim card and whine about being called “antivaccine.” It’s also hilarious that RFK Jr. seems to think that Doshi speaks for the editors of the BMJ when in fact they probably published his opinion piece to be a bit provocative.

Be that as it may, the Yale University study mentioned by RFK Jr. was a study so full of holes that it could be said to show that vaccines cause broken bones. It was basically an exercise in p-hacking and not accounting for a rather obvious confounder. But what about the CDC review, which RFK Jr. not only mentioned in his letter, but in his press conference as well? He had even tipped his hand two weeks ago with an article on his website with Lyn Redwood, New CDC Research Debunks Agency’s Assertion That Mercury in Vaccines Is Safe. I had meant to blog about it then, but my university didn’t carry the article. I wrote to the first author, and his e-mail bounced. So I wrote to the second author and discovered that the first author had retired. Unfortunately, I still don’t have a copy. If I get one, maybe I’ll do a followup post with more detail.

But what about Robert De Niro? Those of you not familiar with certain events that occurred last year might have thought, “WTF?” when you saw De Niro’s name associated with this whole fiasco. The answer is simple. A year ago, De Niro bypassed the usual process for selecting films for the Tribeca Film Festival, which he co-founded, and arranged a screening for the antivaccine propaganda “documentary” VAXXED. There was a huge kerfuffle, in the wake of which De Niro revealed himself to have antivacccine proclivities. So, yes, Robert De Niro is antivaccine.

In the meantime, here is the article, which notes in the abstract:

The similarities in mechanisms of toxicity for MeHg and EtHg are presented and compared. The difference in manifested toxicity of MeHg and EtHg are likely the result of the differences in exposure, metabolism, and elimination from the body, rather than differences in mechanisms of action between the two.

MeHg is methyl mercury, and EtHg is ethyl mercury (a.k.a. thimerosal), two different organometallic chemicals. So even from that bit of information, I can tell that, yes, MeHg and EtHg share mechanisms of toxicity, but what RFK Jr. purposely neglects to acknowledge is that the reason EtHg is less toxic than MeHg is because it is eliminated from the body much more rapidly, as the CDC points out on its own website. None of this is a secret. None of this has been hidden. The dose makes the poison, as Paracelsus once said, and, as we’ve learned since then, length of exposure also matters. So if a compound is rapidly eliminated from the body, there’s less exposure.

Now here’s the funny part of the RFK Jr.’s “challenge.” Look who decides if the challenge has been met:

1. Any individual seeking to collect the award (the Claimant) should submit, to the World Mercury Project (WMP), an English translation of the proffered study and a $50 processing fee (to discourage frivolous submissions from flooding WMP staff), along with a letter explaining why the study qualifies for the reward, and the name and address to which the $100,000 check should be directed.

2. The study and corresponding evidence must have been published in a peer-reviewed journal appearing in PubMed.

3. The claimant should submit a hard copy of the document and accompanying letter to:

World Mercury Project
1227 North Peachtree Parkway, Suite #202
Peachtree City, GA 30269

4. To be eligible, the submitted study methodologies should be sufficiently transparent and the data available, to allow the judges to verify any statistical analysis upon which its conclusions rely. Only appropriately applied scientific recognized statistical methods utilizing reliable data will be eligible.

5. Misters Kennedy and DeNiro will either pay the $100,000 reward check or send back a denial explaining why they believe that the study does not qualify. World Mercury Project will simultaneously post a link to the paper and text of the denial on the WMP website.

So, first, RFK Jr. wants your $50. Second, only his judges decide whether the study submitted meets the criteria to show that thimerosal in vaccines at the doses given is safe. But what if you disagree with RFK Jr.’s rejection. And, make no mistake, he’ll reject all the studies that I could list showing that thimerosal as used in vaccines is safe, because he’s already rejected them. That’s what’s on the posters behind him, claims about all the “deficiencies” of the studies. Get a load of the dispute resolution procedure:

If the claimant wishes to dispute the denial, he/she should reply with a written point by point rebuttal explaining why the denial is unfounded and why the submission qualifies.

Within 30 days of receiving that rebuttal, Misters Kennedy and DeNiro will respond with a detailed answer. If the claimant still desires to pursue the claim, he/she should notify Misters Kennedy and DeNiro by registered mail. Upon receiving the notification, Misters Kennedy and DeNiro will, within 30 business days, submit all relevant documents- the proffered study, the claimant’s letter, the Kennedy/DeNiro detailed denial and any supporting studies, the journalist’s rebuttal and the Kennedy/DeNiro answer to the rebuttal, along with any additional responses created by or to Misters Kennedy and DeNiro or sent to Misters Kennedy and DeNiro by the claimant – to an independent scientific panel composed of distinguished scientists of preeminent expertise and integrity. The panel and the judging criteria are listed at worldmercuryproject.org/challenge

Misters Kennedy and DeNiro have never met any member of this imposing panel. To our knowledge, none of them has ever taken a position on thimerosal safety.

In order to discourage frivolous or repetitive claims and maintain the independence of the panelists, Misters Kennedy and DeNiro and the claimant will pay the scientists in advance of their deliberations, according to a 50/50 split, at the rate of $400 per hour for their time spent evaluating the submissions. Should the panel decide unanimously that the application qualifies for the reward, Misters Kennedy and DeNiro will pay the $100,000 reward within 10 business days and, in addition, shall reimburse the successful claimant for his/her 50/50 share of the fees paid to the panelists and his/her $50 application fee.

The first thing I note is that nowhere could I find a list of the scientists that RFK Jr. says he’ll use to resolve conflicts or judge the studies. I bet I can identify some of these “scientists.” I bet that they include people like Boyd Haley, who was a respected chemistry department chair before he became a mercury crank. I bet they include Mark Geier. I bet they include Christopher Shaw or his protégé Lucija Tomljenovic. In other words, I would be willing to bet that his list doesn’t include a single real, reputable vaccine scientist or epidemiologist.

Of course, the very nature of this farcical “challenge” illustrates just how little RFK Jr. understands medical science. There is never any one single scientific study that can demonstrate, for instance, the safety or danger of thimerosal. It’s almost never the case that any one scientific study settles a question; so the demand for a single study that shows that thimerosal in vaccines don’t cause autism or other neurodevelopmental disorders is utterly stupid and ignorant. It’s a scam, and, if RFK Jr. doesn’t know it’s a scam, he’s a scientific ignoramus. If he does know it’s a scam, he’s a con artist, just like his new BFF Donald Trump. Scientists do not conclude that thimerosal does not cause autism or other neurodevelopmental disorders because of any one study. No! We conclude that thimerosal does not cause autism or other neurodevelopmental disorders because that is what the preponderance of evidence from converging lines of evidence as revealed in high quality scientific studies. That’s how science works. Indeed, I even have a name for this gambit, the “One True Study” or “Show Me ONE Study!” gambit. Cranks use it all the time. When the “Show Me ONE Study!” gambit is coupled with an offer of a cash prize to “prove” a scientific principle is true, such as evolution, or, in this case, that thimerosal in vaccines is totally safe, you know you’re dealing with a scam because that’s not how science works. Indeed, the “One True Study” gambit is a classic science denialist trope.

And, no, 80+ crappy studies do not trump a smaller number of high quality studies. Nor does misrepresenting existing science to try to claim that thimerosal causes tics. As I described nearly a decade ago when that particular study came out, the tics were almost certainly statistical noise. If you claim that thimerosal causes tics, you have no reason not to accept that it also results in children scoring higher on certain examinations. As I said at the time in refuting a similar argument made by A-CHAMPs:

First off, the study didn’t claim that there was “no causality.” What it stated is exactly what you see in the Conclusions section: That the study does not support a causal relationship. There’s a difference there too subtle for the ideologues who wrote this press release to understand. It’s impossible ever to prove “no causality.” It is, however, possible to conclude from the data that the data does not support a causal relationship. Second, A-CHAMP is cherry picking associations here. It is true that there were some negative correlations found that achieved statistical significance. When running 42 tests, it would be shocking if there were not a few anomalous findings. What makes the study authors fairly confident that the findings are anomalous is that they were divided roughly equally in both directions, good and bad. Consequently, if A-CHAMP is going to insist that the correlation, for example, with increasing mercury exposure and poorer performance on the GFTA-2 measure of speech articulation test, then it must also accept the findings of a beneficial association between mercury and identification of letters and numbers on the WJ-III test, as there is no reason to reject it. Naturally, the mercury militia picks on the associations as being true that they want to be true and ignore the other associations, which, if true, would be arguments for including thimerosal in vaccines. It’s far more likely that all of them are just noise. Again, the reason that investigators can reasonably conclude that the associations found are most likely due to random chance is because of their random distribution between positive and negative.

I said this whole thing is a scam, and here’s another indication that I’m right, besides the demand for a single study, for an entry fee of $50, for a ridiculously inflated fee for dispute resolution. It’s an Indiegogo page asking for $25,000 to “educate the public, Congress, and the media about the dangers of mercury in medicines.” Basically, RFK Jr.’s $100,000 thimerosal challenge is a scam. Like Jock Doubleday’s vaccine “challenge” before, it’s rigged so that there’s no way anyone can ever collect the $100,000 because RFK Jr. has demanded The One True Study To Show Vaccines Are Safe when for such questions it’s never a matter of just one study and he’s rigged his challenge so that no one can ever collect by defining ahead of time the key studies demonstrating the safety of thimerosal-containing vaccines as hopelessly flawed, even though they are not and are of much higher quality than anything the antivaccine movement has produced to demonize thimerosal-containing vaccines. Basically, the “challenge” is a promotion for the Indiegogo campaign, nothing more.

Not surprisingly, his marks in the antivaccine movement are eating it up.

Comments

  1. #1 Narad
    February 20, 2017

    ^ “Disqustink”

  2. #2 Les Lane
    February 20, 2017

    DeJean’s Conjecture doesn’t hold for n=19.

  3. #4 doug
    February 21, 2017

    ^ “Disqustink”

    Speaking of disgust and stink, do I detect the redolent pong of Travis J. Schwochert, a.k.a. Fendlesworth a.k.a. Fucklesworth?

  4. #5 Narad
    February 21, 2017

    neurotoxicants listed in Table 1,

    Aimlessly fishing for IP addresses, Travis?

  5. #6 Chemmomo
    Where it's not usually this wet and green
    February 21, 2017

    PGP @204

    DW: Aw, thanks. Is it just me or has MJD gotten a lot more stupid and self-promoting this last year?

    Nope. This is actually the mild version.

    You missed his debut here. I think it was fall 2011 or 2012. Sadly (for me) I documented it, but that’s archived 2 laptops back, and I’m not going to pull the up the files.

  6. #7 Chemmomo
    Land without preview
    February 21, 2017

    D’oh!
    ^Insert backslash after last year.

    This is what happens when you stop commenting for a while . . .

  7. […] pro-vaccine.” Last week, he was pulling the oldest crank trick in the book, issuing a vacuous and deceptive “challenge” to provide the “One True Study” that shows thimerosal in vaccines is safe, all the […]

  8. #9 crwydryny
    February 24, 2017

    lets see 91.5% of babies are vaccinated in the UK the national rate of autism ….1.1% *gasp* *shock* oh wait that’s a very small amount considering that most of the population is vaccinated it’s almost as if there’s zero correlation
    I know lets look at sri lanka where near 100% of the population is vaccinated ASD rates… about 0.2%

    i know lets look at nigeria with 10% vaccinated rate with autism rate being 11.4% WOW that’s almost the reverse of what they claim hey maybe vaccines do have an effect on autism… just not the one they claim lol

    as for scientific studies a quick search and I can pull up over 100 studies into how safe vaccines are, and at least 40 in relation to the MMR vaccine in particular.

  9. […] something that is a classic ploy used by cranks to promote their causes. I thus viewed RFK Jr.’s new “challenge” to be what we in the biz like to refer to as a “teachable […]

  10. #11 Wendell Elam
    February 27, 2017

    “…an antivaccine propaganda film so overwrought that it would make Leni Riefenstahl suggest that he tone it down a bit…;”

    FYI- Leni Riefenstahl was a German Jewish Woman; not a He. She was one of Hitler’s favorite cinema directors around 1936

    • #12 Orac
      February 27, 2017

      The “he” in that sentence was Andrew Wakefield, the director of VAXXED. I’m quite aware of who Leni Riefenstahl was, as I’m a bit of a WWII buff and I spent many years deconstructing the lies of Holocaust deniers, something I still do from time to time.

  11. #13 Peter Jenkins
    Arizona, United States
    March 1, 2017

    Aside from “The ONE study” issue you point to, how about just “ANY scientifically-sound peer-reviewed” study concluding there is no causal link between vaccines and autism? Does any such study exist? What’s needed to prove or disprove causation?

    How do you explain so many parents reporting the mental/physical “loss” of their children shortly following scheduled vaccinations? Criticizing Kennedy and others who raise these questions isn’t the solution to the accelerating health problem with our children this country is facing.

  12. #14 Julian Frost
    Gauteng North
    March 2, 2017

    @Peter Jenkins:

    how about just “ANY scientifically-sound peer-reviewed” study concluding there is no causal link between vaccines and autism? Does any such study exist?

    I went to Google Scholar and put the words “study vaccine autism” into the search box. A whole bunch of hits were returned.
    I’m not allowed to put more than two links into a comment because the filters interpret that as spam. Here are two results from the first page.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.2005.01425.x/full “No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study”
    https://iaomt.org/TestFoundation/nolinkmmr.htm “Autism and measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association”

    What’s needed to prove or disprove causation?

    Disproving causation is next to impossible, but a large study looking at over 14 million subjects found no evidence to support causation. At this point, absence of evidence must be regarded as evidence of absence.

    How do you explain so many parents reporting the mental/physical “loss” of their children shortly following scheduled vaccinations?

    The symptoms of autism become noticeable at around the same time that children get MMR Vaccine. Michelle Cedillo was one of the children in the Omnibus Autism Proceedings before Vaccine Court. Her parents introduced video of her at 18 months to show she was fine before receiving her MMR. An expert on autism showed that Michelle was already showing autistic behaviours in the video, and that her parents were unconsciously adjusting their behaviour to her.
    <blockquote. Criticizing Kennedy and others who raise these questions isn’t the solution to the accelerating health problem with our children this country is facing.
    1. The questions Kennedy is asking have already been answered. Raising them again is, if anything, counterproductive.
    2. There is no “accelerating health problem” that children are facing.

  13. #15 Daniel Corcos
    March 2, 2017

    Leni Riefenstahl Jewish? Is this a joke?

  14. #16 herr doktor bimler
    March 2, 2017

    How do you explain so many parents reporting the mental/physical “loss” of their children shortly following scheduled vaccinations?

    Same way as I explain so many people reporting that they were abducted by aliens, or that their children were abducted from child-care centres through invisible tunnels and subjected to satanic rituals.

  15. #17 Antaeus Feldspar
    March 2, 2017

    How do you explain so many parents reporting the mental/physical “loss” of their children shortly following scheduled vaccinations?

    The average person does not realize how malleable human memories are. They do not realize that people’s memories often change, quite radically, to match their ideas of “what must have happened” — and many of those who are introduced to all the scientific research showing how vulnerable memory is to alteration reject it, out of existential fear. But nevertheless, it’s scientific fact; it has been demonstrated over and over in the laboratory and in the real world.

    There is no question that there are a large number of parents who report the narrative “my child was healthy and fine; then they got vaccinated and right after the vaccination they were physically or mentally impaired.” The problem with taking that evidence of the parents’ memories at face value is that extremely often, when it’s compared to the actual medical records, we find disproof of the narrative.

    We find Mrs. Jones was calling the pediatrician every few months, worried about little Johnny’s development. Is it normal that he doesn’t look at me? Is his hearing okay, is that why he doesn’t respond to his name? You ask Mrs. Jones about all those incidents, and she doesn’t remember them at all. The records are there in black and white, showing they happened, and recording the concerns she brought up to the pediatrician — but she’s sure those must have just been well-baby visits, or maybe about minor things like colds.

    If you want a very high-profile example, look at Jenny McCarthy. For years, she didn’t even admit that her son had anything like an ASD. She was telling the world that she was an “indigo child” and Evan was a “crystal child”, and her belief in those New Age identities shaped her recollections and her accounts. Then at some point she got a new narrative, one which admitted there was something wrong with Evan but allowed her to place the blame elsewhere, on vaccines. Now she claims that before Evan even received the vaccine, she was anxiously worrying that it was “the autism shot”, and that shortly after, “the soul was gone from his eyes.” Which invites the obvious question, why did she spend several years of Evan’s “soullessness” telling everyone how his soul was actually that of an extra-super-duper-awesome-chocolatey-fudge-coated crystal child?? We could be cynical and speculate that it was deliberate deception, but the more plausible explanation is that every time she told her stories, she told them the way she remembered them — and every time the narrative she believed in changed, it changed the way she remembered them.

    The reason so many parents have stories conforming to the template of “my child was fine and then right after vaccines he was clearly impaired” is because so many parents have been presented with that widely-publicized template and actively encouraged to use it to explain their own histories, and when they accept that template, their memories conform to it. That’s the overwhelmingly most likely explanation, as it’s the one that actually matches all the scientific data.

    The alternate explanation, that those parental perceptions reflect actual damage caused by vaccine, has a really crippling flaw: namely, that study after study has been performed, trying to detect any increase in physical or mental problems in vaccinated children above the general baseline, matching the parental reporting, and none of those studies has ever returned such results. These are the same kind of studies that have previously detected actual vaccine side effects on the order of 1 in 100,000. This actually means that the larger the group of parents who tell the story of “my child was totally fine until the vaccines and then they got sick,” the less plausible the hypothesis of vaccine causation is — it’s clearly impossible for the population of “children who wouldn’t have been sick except for vaccines” to be so small that our most sophisticated surveillance techniques can’t detect it, and yet so huge that you can stand on any street corner in America and see the vaccine-injured children go by, the way it’s frequently described by such parents.

  16. #18 jm deux
    March 15, 2017

    This article is a load of crap and is steeped in reliance on the writers credibility which is nil.

  17. #19 jm deux
    March 15, 2017

    Perhaps the author of this opinion piece can put the question to rest by showing even one peer reviewed study (pubmed published) demonstrating a mercury adjuvant is safe?

  18. #20 Julian Frost
    Gauteng East Rand
    March 17, 2017

    Nice mixing things up, silly.
    Thimerosal is a preservative while adjuvants are intended to heighten an immune response. The former is a compound containing mercury, the latter are usually aluminium salts.

  19. #21 shay simmons
    March 18, 2017

    Someone talking about mercury adjuvants claims this article is full of crap?

    M’sieu/Madame Deux, you owe us new irony meters.

  20. #22 Jan Hård af Segerstad
    Sweden
    March 25, 2017

    LECTURE ON VACCINES
    https://youtu.be/i6TXDSGJYXM

    LECTURE ON OSTEOPOROSIS AND BONE HEALTH
    https://youtu.be/CSuM_Feriq4

    LECTURE ON BLOOD PRESSUR AND CHOLESTEROL
    https://youtu.be/PXe2xldWxtY

    LECTURE ON HOW TO CURE CANCER, BY DR. MICHAEL VANDERSCHELDEN – A COLLEAUGE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9socQcwPIs

    Jan Hård af Segerstad
    Sr. Strategic Adviser
    Milvägen 17, 181 47 Lidingö, Sweden
    Mob: +46-70 758 40 30

  21. #23 Julian Frost
    Gauteng East Rand
    March 25, 2017

    Argument by YouTube gets you mocked here. And “Senior Strategic Adviser”? Meaningless, pretentious job titles don’t impress us much either.

  22. #24 Dangerous Bacon
    March 25, 2017

    “Argument by YouTube gets you mocked here.”

    Especially a YouTube video advising us what to avoid to stay healthy, narrated by a markedly obese antivaxer.

    Dr. Bergman should instead lay off the cheeseburgers.

  23. #25 herr doktor bimler
    March 25, 2017

    DR. MICHAEL VANDERSCHELDEN – A COLLEAUGE

    Perhaps “Colleauge” is some fort of qualification or academic recognition that does not translate well from Swedish into Ensligh.

    • #26 Jan Hård af Segerstad
      Sweden
      March 25, 2017

      The science of the comments so far amazes me. Especially the cheesburger comment. Very respectful indeed! You smart-asses do come up with something that really debutes the lectures of Dr. John Bergman, wose colleauge is Dr. Michael VanDerschelden.

  24. #27 rs
    March 25, 2017

    “Dr. Bergman should instead lay off the cheeseburgers.”

    It’s a trial run of a new health program. You send him your cheeseburgerz and he eats them, thereby keeping you healthier.

  25. #28 Alain
    March 25, 2017

    I guess I can see it now, a colleague having YouTube videos on curing cancer and / or autism asking me if I have a Facebook or LinkedIn account…

    Alain

  26. #29 Panacea
    March 25, 2017

    Sounds like a way to kill your career quick.

  27. #30 Jan Hård af Segerstad
    Sweden
    March 25, 2017

    For your information, I’m 80. During my life I have coordinated the construction of 4 suburbs to Stockholm and Huddinge Hospital, in the 60-ties considered the biggest private building in the world. That made me infra structure adviser of 6 governments. Since 2006 I’m the strategic adviser of the ridiculed scientist Jim Humble (84), whose remedy MMS, has been falsely suppressed and banned by the FDA, since the discovery in 1996. I know what I’m talking about, and if somebody is curious about the science behind, I will explain it to you, if you address me by email jan@hafs.se.

    • #31 Orac
      March 25, 2017

      Um, being an advisor to Jim Humble is not a way to gain respect around here; that is, if you aren’t Travis, which is not unlikely.

      • #32 Dorit Reiss
        March 25, 2017

        Vocally supporting selling industrial bleach as a “cure” to suffering patients and distressed parents isn’t the path to respect, either.

  28. #33 Alain
    March 25, 2017

    Sounds like a way to kill your career quick.

    Reason enough to not have account on either of these time s*ckers where users are the products for either of them to sell out.

    Alain

  29. #34 Chris
    March 25, 2017

    Orac: “…. that is, if you aren’t Travis, which is not unlikely.”

    The fool left his email address in his comment. It may not be real, but citing Jim Humble as a “scientist” is a clue to his minimal critical thinking skills. This is the same thing that some other fool named Lee Miles did seven years ago (he was apparently “curing” himself with baking soda).

    It seems Travis found that link, and started with somewhat innocuous comments with his name yesterday. But one seemed “off” in the Romania measles thread.

  30. #35 Woo Fighter
    March 26, 2017

    If MMS cures everything, as Humble and his “ministers” claim, why would Jan Hård af Segerstad, Humble’s “Sr. Strategic Adviser,” be promoting a YouTube video by someone who claims a diet can cure cancer?

    Wouldn’t a few drops of his magic bleach do that, faster and better?

    Why promote the competition?

    Not a very loyal “Sr. Strategic Adviser” to Humble.

  31. #36 Dangerous Bacon
    March 26, 2017

    It may be risky to mock Jan Hård. If he’s truly the “strategic adviser” to Jim Humble, he is likely a high priest in the Genesis II Church and able to call down slime and imprecations on its enemies.

    I didn’t think anything could be more embarrassing than being the publicist for Hulda Clark, but Jan’s purported advisory role to Humble may have topped it.

  32. #37 Woo Fighter
    March 26, 2017

    Off topic, but since Jan Hård af Segerstad brought it up, I hear MMS has been rebranded yet once again to skirt laws and is now being marketed in Europe as “activated oxygen drops” or some such nonsense. I haven’t been bothered to Google it yet.
    The whole thing makes me so sick.

  33. #38 Woo Fighter
    March 26, 2017

    And that’s the exact argument from the MMS shills: it’s not Clorox!

    Granted, when most people hear “bleach” they think of the white plastic gallon jugs in the laundry room.

    So MMS in not laundry bleach, but it is, without a doubt, a bleaching agent.

    And yes, I know, so is the sun.

  34. #39 herr doktor bimler
    March 26, 2017

    Since 2006 I’m the strategic adviser of the ridiculed scientist Jim Humble (84), whose remedy MMS, has been falsely suppressed and banned by the FDA, since the discovery in 1996. I know what I’m talking about, and if somebody is curious about the science behind, I will explain it to you

    It is as Farmor warned me. Too much surströmming causes brain damage.
    “Too much” = “any quantity more than zero”.

  35. #40 Panacea
    March 26, 2017

    Woo Fighter: I don’t think “Jan Hard” (aka Travis) is promoting MMS as a cancer cure. Nothing in his post suggests that. But of course we all know MMS is promoted as an autism cure.

    Horrible thought about MMS being re-marketed. Apparently, marketing oxygen as a cure is not new (https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/oxygen-is-good-even-when-its-not-there/), and I did find one product that seems to have clorite in it, though it claims not to be in a concentration that is harmful. I’m not sure; the gobeltygook was hard to mull through (when you take 13 pages to explain your bullshit, any sane reader should know its bullshit). https://www.allicincenter.com/store/images/Resource/Common_Questions.pdf

  36. #41 Narad
    March 26, 2017

    You smart-asses do come up with something that really debutes the lectures of Dr. John Bergman, wose colleauge is Dr. Michael VanDerschelden.

    I’m not even sure where do to start debuting somehose’s colleauge.

  37. […] as the Washington Press Club, the very same place where a few weeks ago Robert F. Kennedy Jr. issued his ridiculous “thimerosal challenge.” And what a bunch of speeches that this small band of antivaxers and a few reporters sat […]

  38. #43 cms
    April 21, 2017

    Doesn’t sound like they pick their own judges to me.

    Somehow this blog neglected to mention this:

    Dispute Resolution

    If the claimant wishes to dispute the denial, he/she should reply with a written point by point rebuttal explaining why the denial is unfounded and why the submission qualifies.

    Within 30 days of receiving that rebuttal, Misters Kennedy and De Niro will respond with a detailed answer. If the claimant still desires to pursue the claim, he/she should notify Misters Kennedy and De Niro by registered mail. Upon receiving the notification, Misters Kennedy and De Niro will, within 30 business days, submit all relevant documents – the proffered study, the claimant’s letter, the Misters Kennedy and DeNiro’s detailed denial and any supporting studies, the journalist’s rebuttal and the Misters Kennedy and De Niro answer to the rebuttal, along with any additional responses created by or to Misters Kennedy and De Niro or sent to Misters Kennedy and De Niro by the claimant – to an independent scientific panel composed of distinguished scientists of preeminent expertise and integrity.

    Misters Kennedy and DeNiro have never met any member of the panel. To our knowledge, none of them has ever taken a position on thimerosal safety.

    In order to discourage frivolous or repetitive claims and maintain the independence of the panelists, Misters Kennedy and De Niro and the claimant will pay the scientists in advance of their deliberations, according to a 50/50 split, at the rate of $400 per hour for their time spent evaluating the submissions. Should the panel decide unanimously that the application qualifies for the reward, Misters Kennedy and De Niro will pay the $100,000 reward within 10 business days and, in addition, shall reimburse the successful claimant for his/her 50/50 share of the fees paid to the panelists and his/her $50 application fee.

  39. #44 Kathleen
    Australia
    May 19, 2017

    Go Robert Kennedy Jr!!!!! Love to hear you speaking the truth and challenging the corrupted media. Thanks to this site for running the video link, but your comments/article are laughable, shame on you, but the public know the truth, i wont be visiting this corrupt site again, unless you post more clips of my courageous hero RKJ!!!!

  40. #45 D Englund
    May 28, 2017

    Whew, that was a long one. So I guess my question is, why hasn’t anyone collected? The challenge is fairly simple, and I would think that the pharmaceutical companies and the CDC would want to lay this matter to rest openly and publicly. So why hasn’t anyone stepped up instead of putting out endless blogs that are nothing but personal attacks? And why is this not covered by the networks? Put up or shut up.

  41. #46 Dangerous Bacon
    May 28, 2017

    Try reading the article instead of whining about its length. Reflect on the nature of previous “challenges” judged by their creators in a manner that ensures their terms can never be met, and consider this:

    “There is never any one single scientific study that can demonstrate, for instance, the safety or danger of thimerosal. It’s almost never the case that any one scientific study settles a question; so the demand for a single study that shows that thimerosal in vaccines don’t cause autism or other neurodevelopmental disorders is utterly stupid and ignorant. It’s a scam, and, if RFK Jr. doesn’t know it’s a scam, he’s a scientific ignoramus. If he does know it’s a scam, he’s a con artist”

  42. #47 Panacea
    May 28, 2017

    Medical researchers have already put up, well before this silly “prize” was even offered.

    Kennedy and DeNiro are not serious. Since they lack any ability to rationally judge scientific research, it is easy for them to dismiss anything that does not agree with their world view and refuse to pay.

    Science doesn’t work in the way Kennedy and DeNiro suppose.

  43. #48 Julian Frost
    Gauteng North
    May 31, 2017
    • #49 Jan Hard af Segerstad
      Sweden
      May 31, 2017

      IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN VACCINES, SEE THIS LECTURE ON VACCINES
      https://youtu.be/i6TXDSGJYXM

      VACCINE FILLERS
      aluminum hydroxide
      aluminum phosphate
      ammonium sulfate
      amphotericin B
      animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
      dog kidney, monkey kidney,
      chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
      calf (bovine) serum
      betapropiolactone
      fetal bovine serum
      formaldehyde
      formalin
      gelatin
      glycerol
      human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
      hydrolized gelatin
      monosodium glutamate (MSG)
      neomycin
      neomycin sulfate
      phenol red indicator
      phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
      potassium diphosphate
      potassium monophosphate
      polymyxin B
      polysorbate 20
      polysorbate 80
      porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
      residual MRC5 proteins
      sorbitol
      sucrose
      thimerosal (mercury)
      tri(n)butylphosphate,
      VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
      washed sheep red blood cells

  44. #50 Jay
    May 31, 2017

    At Jan

    What a stupid list, it must have been created to test the stupidity of anti vax marks.

    Go Jan, tell me why Sucrose, Glycerol and Formaldehyde* are on that list and why it’s scary.

    Little hint, you have them running about in your bloodstream already…

    *Probably even more, haven’t the time to check.

  45. #51 MI Dawn
    May 31, 2017

    @Jan Hard af Segerstad: Oh MY! All those big words!! You’re right. I’m horrified and never vaccinating again. Nor will I ever eat again because many of those ingredients are in common foods (check out the amount of formaldehyde in foods! And arsenic! And so many other poisons – why I’ll never eat an apple again!!)

    OK. Enough sarcasm. Look, dude. Youtube is not good medical science. And, the dose makes the poison ! How many times do we have to tell you noobs that? If you have issues understanding that, I have 8 gallons of pure water here next to me that I want you to drink in the next 30 minutes. It’s only water, no worries, right?

    • #52 Jan Hardvaf Segerstad
      Sweden
      May 31, 2017

      I rather deal with scientists tha with sarcastic BESSERWISSERS! Why not start by proving the details of The vaccine lecture wrong. That will keep you busy for some time!

  46. #53 dingo199
    May 31, 2017

    What a lot of evil-sounding chemicals those are, Jan.
    You must know an awful lot about them. So maybe you could tell me what the difference is between “hydrolized gelatin” and “gelatin”, since I thought all gelatin was already hydrolized?
    And could you tell me what is the difference between “formalin” and “formaldehyde”, since you presumably think that in the low concentrations present in some vaccines they are quite different?
    Thanks in advance.

  47. #54 dingo199
    May 31, 2017

    Looking at the rulkes of the submission appeal process, this just seems like a scam to coin in cash from the applicants/appelants for members of the so-called “independent” scientific panel (who are not independent at all but selected by RFK Jr).
    The panellists will get $400 per hour for their “work” reviewing appeal documents – a nice little earner, before they eventually turn down the appeal.

    • #55 Jay
      May 31, 2017

      At Dingo

      They can even agree, see the scam here is that the “panel” have to agree unanimously.

      So fill a panel with genuine experts, then place one antivax ding dingbat and tada case dismissed. Lots of money scammed.

      Have lost loads of respect for De Niro 🙁

  48. #56 Orac
    May 31, 2017

    OK, WTF happened on this thread? This post is from February, and suddenly there’s a bunch of commenting activity on it from antivax cranks. Someone must have posted it on an antivax forum somewhere…

  49. #57 Lawrence
    May 31, 2017

    Idiocy, idiocy everywhere…..

  50. #58 Se Habla Espol
    the keyboard, again
    May 31, 2017

    @Jan Hardvaf Segerstad, #49, #52

    start by proving the details of The vaccine lecture wrong.

    Jan, that’s not the way it works, in Sweden, the US, or anywhere else. You’re making the claim that “The lecture” is correct; it’s your job to provide support for your claim.

    It seems that “The lecture” claims that list to be ingredients of each and every vaccine, regardless of the country of approval; that each and every item on the list is significant, that the item actually occurs in vaccines (rather than being used and removed during manufacture) and is potentially harmful as a vaccine ingredient. By promoting “The lecture” here, you have volunteered to support each and every claim embedded in “The lecture”.

    Hitchen’s razor applies here, as it does everywhere: “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” You would be welcome to return here, if and when you have something meaningful to say.

    • #59 Jan Hard afvSegerstad
      Sweden
      May 31, 2017

      Dear friend,
      We have the opposit view upon the pharmaceutical industry, and the FDA, the dark sides of which I have investigated almost a decade now. I’m strategic Medical Adviser of a scientist whose Medical Paradigmhift has been suppressed 2 decades and deceptively banned by the FDA in mascot with the pharmaceutical industry, while hundreds of millions have unnecessarily died and multi billions contracted (among other diseases) malaria. Do you know that in the US more people die from FDA-approved pharmaceuticals, than from malaria in the entire world? Google “Death by medicine.”
      Don’t trust a source unless you know the core of it and its motives.

      We have a commercial US$1 Trillion Pharmaceutical Industry allowing itself a margin of unbelievable 10%-41%! A medicine that masks the symptoms or stalls the disease that you have to take 4 times a day for the rest of your life – that’s business! Why market unpatentable all natural medicines that immediately cures a disease, and destroys a market that you have already in control?

      As to Dr. John Bergman, by my scrutiny, he is a most reputable scientist whose findings are not questioned by the independent research community – on the contrary! I regsrd it meaningless to try to prove once more his evidences and findings. Like, I trust Einstein’s theory, without trying to prove it again

  51. #60 Chris
    May 31, 2017

    “Google “Death by medicine.””

    No. When you make a claim, you provide the evidence. Just post the PubMed Identification Numbers of the studies that support your statements. We would be especially interested if the FDA had any jurisdiction outside the United States of America other than inspecting overseas manufacturing of imported to this country products.

  52. #61 herr doktor bimler
    May 31, 2017

    human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

    Oh for fecks sake, these feckin forced-birth theocrats never tire of making stuff up.

  53. #62 Se Habla Espol
    Still at the keyboard
    June 1, 2017

    @Jan Hard afvSegerstad, # 59

    Dear friend,
    We have the opposit view upon the pharmaceutical industry, and the FDA, the dark sides of which I have investigated almost a decade now.

    We also seem to have opposite views on the bright side, as well as the dark side. How does my view, or yours, lend any credence to what either of us has to say? Credence comes from our ability to take an objective viewpoint and avoid those fallacies of argumentation that are so commonly used by people who want to sell their views.

    One of these fallacies is to make claims, without support; then, when challenged for support, provide Proof by Authority handwaving and change the subject (among other ploys). The handwaving is in the quote above.

    I’m strategic Medical Adviser of a scientist whose Medical Paradigmhift has been suppressed 2 decades

    And here is the Proof by Proclaimed Authority fallacy, with a little more irrelevant handwaving. A paradigm shift is no big deal: all that’s required is actual evidence.

    and deceptively banned by the FDA in mascot with the pharmaceutical industry,

    More irrelevant, unsupported handwaving, offered as if to justify a failure to support the challenged claims.

    while hundreds of millions have unnecessarily died and multi billions contracted (among other diseases) malaria.

    More irrelevant, unsupported handwaving, offered as if to justify a failure to support the challenged claims.

    Do you know that in the US more people die from FDA-approved pharmaceuticals, than from malaria in the entire world? Google “Death by medicine.”

    More irrelevant, unsupported handwaving, offered as if to justify a failure to support the challenged claims.

    Don’t trust a source unless you know the core of it and its motives.

    That’s why your claims are being challenged: we recognize them, we know that they range from irrelevant to false and that they are not bring presented in good faith: these factors indicate a source which can by no means be considered trustworthy.

    We have a commercial US$1 Trillion Pharmaceutical Industry allowing itself a margin of unbelievable 10%-41%!

    How is that claim relevant to anything you claimed earlier, or anything else, for that matter? Are we to conclude that you and your boss are drooling for a piece of that pie?

    A medicine that masks the symptoms or stalls the disease that you have to take 4 times a day for the rest of your life – that’s business!

    Every such QID medication I’ve seem have been replaced by a sustained-release formulation to be taken once a day, ultimately costing perhaps a little more per dose but much less than four times. That’s business.

    Why market unpatentable all natural medicines that immediately cures a disease, and destroys a market that you have already in control?

    When an all-natural medication that actually works is encountered, it is studied, the active ingredient(s) get isolated, purified, and made stable and predictable: then it’s patented. What’s the problem in reality? That it ignores someone’s dreams of riches?

    As to Dr. John Bergman, by my scrutiny, he is a most reputable scientist whose findings are not questioned by the independent research community – on the contrary!

    What does a California chiropractor have to do with anything we’ve been discussing? How can any honest person consider a chiropractor to be a scientist? From his titles, he seems deep into selling the naturalistic fallacy rather than into science.

    I regsrd it meaningless to try to prove once more his evidences and findings.

    I find his “evidences and findings” to be meaningless, with or without a shill refusing to “prove” anything about them.

    Like, I trust Einstein’s theory, without trying to prove it again

    Einstein’s theories and other work need no proof, since they are actual science: science doesn’t do proof, it does data and analysis of the data.

  54. #63 Julian Frost
    Gauteng North
    June 1, 2017

    @Orac:

    OK, WTF happened on this thread?

    My bad. I posted a link from Cracked, and it looks like Jan Hard had checked the Notify me of follow-up comments by email box, because he responded to my comment directly.

  55. #64 JustaTech
    June 1, 2017

    What does the FDA (an *American* agency) have to do with anything at all in Sweden?
    In the US you complain about the FDA. In the EU you complain about the EU regulators (who are at least as picky, if about different things, as the FDA).
    The only interaction between medicine in Sweden and the FDA is if you want to sell medicine developed in Sweden in the USA.

    Moving on.

  56. #65 Dangerous Bacon
    June 2, 2017

    “Don’t trust a source unless you know the core of it and its motives.”

    This is the lazy person’s way to avoid confronting facts counter to his/her beliefs.

    First, analyze the evidence and question, accept or refute it. Only then is it permissible to wave your hands about how mean/nasty/corrupt/unreliable the source is.

  57. #66 herr doktor bimler
    June 4, 2017

    I’m strategic Medical Adviser of a scientist whose Medical Paradigmhift has been suppressed 2 decades

    And here is the Proof by Proclaimed Authority fallacy, with a little more irrelevant handwaving. A paradigm shift is no big deal: all that’s required is actual evidence.
    Don’t forget, Se Habla Espol, that the purported “scientist” to whom Jan Hard afvSegerstad genuflects is Jim ‘Fuckstick’ Humble, prophet and profiteer of the Church of Bleach Enemas. one of the most vile frauds one is likely to encounter on the Intertubes. You are treating Jan with far more respect than he deserves.

    • #67 Jan Hard af Segerstad
      Sweden
      June 5, 2017

      I do understand your devoted message supported by the FDA’s deceptive warnings and millions and millions of MDs who have one day, or a week at the most, training in holistic medicine and nutrition. Hopefully I can educate you, and make you a supporter of the truth about MMS. The misguided information circulating, kills more people than you can imagine!

      By the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and other frontline science, 95% of all diseases have 4 basic causes:

      1. Toxins in air, water, soil, foods and consumer products;
      2. Poor nutrition;
      3. Lack of exercise;
      4. Mental disorders, of which 80% are caused by 1-3 above.

      MMS is the world’s by far most effective detoxification agent. See:

      http://tapnewswire.com/2015/03/how-mms-kills-viruses-and-saves-lives/

      The board of the Ugandan Red Cross published that the following malaria documentary is a falsification and disassociated themselves from it. A few months later all board members were fired due to extensive corruption.

      Malaria documentary:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jY2yab0uLc
      Dr. John Humiston interview:

      https://youtu.be/bp1eqTajcpQ

      Kerri Rivera has now cured 330 children of all diagnosis within the autism spectrum. Compare the evidenced true science to the FDA warnings that MMS=Chlorine Dioxide (CD) is a deadly industrial bleach.

      Kerri Rivera lecture at AutismOne 2015:

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LWrCEq_8CWY
      Tod

      Google Death by Medicine, and you will find a serious study proving that more people die from FDA-approved medicines in the USA, than from malaria in the entire world!

      Please join the forces to debunk the FDA (in collusion with the pharmaceutical industry) false bannings and suppression of MMS, which is the tip of an iceberg! Thank you

  58. #68 Chris
    June 5, 2017

    Oooh, evidence by YouTube. We are not impressed. Try some actual evidence, like PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers.

    • #69 Jan Hard af Segerstad
      Sweden
      June 5, 2017

      The problem with stubborn people who lack knowledge and self awareness is that they lack knowledge and self awareness, and like you, you refuse to even look into the evidences, because these are presented on YouTube!

      For your information a research grope of the most prestigious Karolinska Institutet (with the Nobel Committee) believe in and has great interest in MMS, and financed by the state of Sweden, a major MMS R&D project will start January 2018. So till then, please hold your horses.

      I have a saying. “Everything has a cause, that you will humbly have to accept. In the sense that, if you understand everything, you can forgive everything – not meaning that everything is acceptable. Understanding has two keys: True Knowledge and Empathy.”

  59. #70 Chris Preston
    Australia
    June 5, 2017

    Oooh, evidence by YouTube. We are not impressed.

    Oh, but we are. The more YouTube clips referenced impresses us by how much of a gullible loon Travis this person is.

    What impresses us most of all are references to the Rev. Jim Humble of the Church of Bleach and Kerri Rivera’s suggestions for child abuse. Top class this is.

    • #71 Jan Hård af Segerstad
      Sweden
      June 5, 2017

      Stop spreading your crap idiot!!! 1,500 children unnecessarily die from malaria every day, and 580,000 contract malaria (214,000,000/ year by WHO statistics). Figure out 20 years FDA suppression and banning of MMS!

      I have investigated core scientific facts and FDA-facts the last 10 years almost on a daily basis.

      You remind me of the louse on the flatbed of a super truck who hits his chest and shouts SEE HOW MUCH DUST I TEAR UP!!!

  60. #72 herr doktor bimler
    June 5, 2017

    Kerri Rivera has now cured 330 children of all diagnosis within the autism spectrum.

    …But before she got around to documenting even one of her invented cures, she abandoned bleach enemas and switched to pimping GcMAF as the new cure for autism, because that’s where the money is now.
    Rivera is a waste of perfectly good organs that could otherwise be inside the bodies of transplant recipients, but she does serve the useful purpose of indicating where the most profitable autism scam is at any given time.

  61. #73 herr doktor bimler
    June 5, 2017

    a research grope of the most prestigious Karolinska Institutet (with the Nobel Committee) believe in and has great interest in MMS, and financed by the state of Sweden, a major MMS R&D project will start January 2018.

    Imagine my disappointment to find no support for this claim on the KI website.

  62. […] L'altro ieri a Washington, gli anti-vax dell'ala "non sono contro i  vaccini,  ma contengono thimerosal che causa l'autismo e altri danni neurologici" Robert De Niro e Robert F. Kennedy Jr. hanno rilanciato una vecchia truffa. Dettagli da  Orac. […]

  63. #75 Julian Frost
    Gauteng North
    June 5, 2017

    1,500 children unnecessarily die from malaria every day, and 580,000 contract malaria (214,000,000/ year by WHO statistics). Figure out 20 years FDA suppression and banning of MMS!

    Where is your evidence that MMS can cure malaria? Where is your evidence that it is either more effective or has fewer side effects than other treatments?
    You have repeatedly argued by assertion. Time to bring some evidence. And no, YouTube videos do not count.

    • #76 Jan Hard af Segerstad
      Sweden
      June 5, 2017

      For the misguided morones who don’t understand that serious documentaries are published on YouTube to speed up the transfer of important information. Here is a video presentation of the most important research center in the world! Karolinska Institutet. I’m sure you can find more. I guess it’s impossible to convince you that it’s real. Sorry, but you have to create your own opinion and make an investigation about the content!

      http://youtu.be/rdXvZXwZvJo

  64. #77 Lawrence
    June 5, 2017

    You mean the “cured” children where we know at least some of them are outright fabrications?

    I’d love to see by what plausible biological mechanism “MMS” is supposed to do what it purports to do.

  65. #78 doug
    June 5, 2017

    These despicable creep quacks who allege “banning” or “cover-up” of non-cures like MMS for malaria make me very angry.

    Many of the countries where malaria is a major killer are moderately to seriously impoverished. These countries are autonomous, and not bound by anything the FDA has to say. They have their own scientists and physicians who work very hard for small reward and are dedicated to providing healthcare for their fellow citizens. If evidence that MMS or any other low-cost nostrum was efficacious against malaria existed, such people would be “all over it”. There isn’t. They aren’t. US physicians who volunteer to work in such countries would be loudly and publicly slamming the FDA if they really believed that MMS would cure malaria and that the FDA was interfering with its use. Doesn’t happen.

    Big pharma hasn’t shown a lot of interest in malaria in part because there isn’t a lot of profit to be made by supplying drugs to poor countries. They have nearly zero motivation to engage in suppression.

    • #79 Jan Hard af Segerstad
      Sweden
      June 5, 2017

      How can I convince you if you stubbornly stick to your beliefs without checking the trustworthiness of my documentaries? Most serious actors in the world use YouTube to spread their information. So, when you have checked out the content of all my documentaries, please comment what seems to be rubbish, and why…. not only that how can I trust YouTube. Did you find the Karolinska Institutet presentation serious or bogus?

  66. #80 Chris
    June 5, 2017

    Jan, do you mean serious documentaries like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjHOBJzhb0

    Again, just post the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers to support you claims.

  67. #81 Denice Walter
    June 5, 2017

    In other anti-vax news…

    Cathy Jameson ( AoA, yesterday) tries her hand at dream interpretation when she dreams her family stalked by bears.

    Guess who the bears represent.

  68. #82 Narad
    June 5, 2017

    The board of the Ugandan Red Cross published that the following malaria documentary is a falsification and disassociated themselves from it.

    Yawn.

  69. #83 LouV
    France
    June 5, 2017

    @Jan Hard af Segerstad #76
    And this video is supposed to prove that Karolinska Institutet has a MMS project… how exactly ?
    Don’t you think it would be more interesting to post a page from the university website or a document from the university detailing this project ?

  70. #84 LouV
    France
    June 5, 2017

    The board of the Ugandan Red Cross published that the following malaria documentary is a falsification and disassociated themselves from it. A few months later all board members were fired due to extensive corruption.

    Also, I don’t suppose you could tell who exactly was fired and on what charges ? Because what I did find wasn’t exactly that…

    • #85 Jan Hard af Segerstad
      Sweden
      June 5, 2017

      The undersigned came across the following information:
      QUOTE
      “In the interest of re-building public trust of Uganda’s largest humanitarian agency, the Central Governing Board has been dissolved,” she said in a press statement last evening.
      Last month, URC courted negative publicity when its secretary general, Michael Nataka, was implicated in fraudulent dealings.
      The meeting was prompted by a petition from Dr. Dominic Mundrugo-ogo Lali, the chairman of the URCS Moyo branch; Godfrey Kaganda, the chairman URCS Kampala East branch and Henry Makumbi Chairman URCS Mityana branch.
      A total of 111 council members from URC’s 51 branches decided that an interim board be elected to work with the interim secretary general, Ken Odur.
      Chaired by URCS president, retired Bishop Tom Okello, the meeting discussed a report from the Central Governing Board on allegations of smuggling and tax evasion.
      UNQUOTE
      This made the Swedish Red Cross cancel all further cooperation (check it). As a former (I’m 80) adviser to 6 governments, I’m used to cutting the crap to maintain trust. Again, enjoy all documentaries that I have presented in previous statements, because you can trust them 100%!

  71. #86 Dangerous Bacon
    June 5, 2017

    I am amused by the quackery promoter who attempt to insult the intelligence of his critics, but is unable to spell “morons”.

  72. #87 Dangerous Bacon
    June 5, 2017

    And of course, that should be “attempts”. Gaudere’s Law strikes again.

  73. #88 Narad
    June 5, 2017

    Also, I don’t suppose you could tell who exactly was fired and on what charges ? Because what I did find wasn’t exactly that…

    Yah, it’s quite a bit simpler, and wholly irrelevant.

    One might further ask Jan Hard why this house cleaning didn’t, y’know, reverse the whole “problem” of the board that wanted nothing to do with some MMS bucket of sh*t.

  74. #89 herr doktor bimler
    June 5, 2017

    Here is a video presentation of the most important research center in the world! Karolinska Institutet.

    The existence of the Karolinska Institutet was not in question (they certainly managed to raise their profile with the Macchiarini trachea-transplant scandal)! What is in question is whether they are taking Humble’s “miracle supplement” fraud seriously enough to study it, and after Jan’s failure to back up his claim, I’m guessing that he simply pulled it out of his rectum. Or was misled by their work on ‘Medfödda Metabola Sjukdomar’.

  75. #90 JustaTech
    June 5, 2017

    Oh, look at that! Jan’s a germ-theory denier!
    Based on the list @67 of the “4 causes of disease”, which completely omits bacteria, viruses or any other pathogen, like, say, the malaria protozoa.

    Why love bleach if you’re not afraid of germs?

  76. #91 doug
    June 5, 2017

    When rapid sharing of information was important during the peak of the Zika crisis in South America, youtube most certainly was not the medium of choice. Instead, a number of journals rapidly published papers as open access. Of course what was published came from legitimate sources, not hacks pretending to be scientists. Hacks can publish videos any time they want. They tend to fare badly with reputable journals.

  77. #92 herr doktor bimler
    June 5, 2017

    Most serious actors in the world use YouTube to spread their information

    Ian McKellen, perhaps?

  78. #93 herr doktor bimler
    June 5, 2017

    By the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and other frontline science, 95% of all diseases have 4 basic causes:

    1. Toxins in air, water, soil, foods and consumer products;
    2. Poor nutrition;
    3. Lack of exercise;
    4. Mental disorders, of which 80% are caused by 1-3 above.

    I look forward to the link to an AAAS source containing this interesting concatenation of claims. At the moment they’re looking like more of Jan’s rectally-sourced fantasies.
    Why do you do this, Jan? Why do you make up these bizarre fabrications and then attribute them to the AAAS, or the Karolinska Institutet? Do you really imagine that they are going to fool anyone?

  79. #94 LouV
    France
    June 5, 2017

    @Jan #85
    Ok, so you found the same article than Narad at #88.
    I have the same question as him :

    One might further ask Jan Hard why this house cleaning didn’t, y’know, reverse the whole “problem” of the board that wanted nothing to do with some MMS bucket of sh*t.
    For example, did the new board publish a counter-announcement that it supported MMS ? Was the old board fraudulent actions in any way connected to MMS ?
    The fact that some people in the old board commited fraud doesn’t in itself prove MMS proponents aren’t. A scammer can come across another scammer whose scam is a subtle as an anvil and go “Hahaha. No.”

    I also awaits with the others whatever you can provide that actually proves that Karolinska Institutet has a project involving MMS.

  80. #95 Johnny
    127.0.0.1
    June 5, 2017

    Oh, look at that! Jan’s a germ-theory denier!
    Based on the list @67 of the “4 causes of disease”, which completely omits bacteria, viruses or any other pathogen, like, say, the malaria protozoa.

    Why love bleach if you’re not afraid of germs?

    And a ‘gene-theory’ denier also, it would seem.

  81. #96 LouV
    France
    June 5, 2017

    (Blockquote fail. Ugh.)

    This made the Swedish Red Cross cancel all further cooperation (check it).
    Ok.
    *looks up “Swedish Red Cross Uganda”*
    https://media.ifrc.org/ifrc/2017/02/22/meeting-the-massive-water-and-sanitation-needs-in-palorinya-camp-uganda/

    At present more than half of the safe water at the camp is provided by teams from the Uganda Red Cross Society. (…) We will need to expand that capacity even more and we’re looking forward to the WASH emergency response unit about to arrive to boost our efforts bringing more equipment, vehicles and technicians from Red Cross societies in Sweden, Germany and Austria” (dated 22 Feb 2017)
    Looks like Sweden-Uganda cooperation to me.
    See also in 2016 : http://www.ugandanetworks.org/Articles/481509/International_Red_Cross.aspx
    and 2015 : https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=831811033544884&id=117683891624272

  82. #97 Narad
    June 5, 2017

    The undersigned came across the following information

    “Undersigned”? I mean, I was willing to write off the whole “super truck” thing as some sort of weird idiom that I had never encountered, but undersigned?

  83. #98 Narad
    June 5, 2017

    In other anti-vax news…

    Cathy Jameson ( AoA, yesterday) tries her hand at dream interpretation when she dreams her family stalked by bears.

    “You came about the flat?”

    British. Murderess of Cypriot peasants; innate antagonist. Be careful. Lie: “My name is Ian Evergood, miss, you’re quite correct. Could I have a look?” … “Been on a bit of a hunting trip,. The Adirondacks. You’ll have to forgive my appearance” … “There was a wolf, you see. A marauding bear.” … “Quartered three children before I got him. Ghastly business. Made a topping shot, though.”

    “Are you British?”

    “Greek.”

    “Oh.”

  84. #99 Troels
    June 6, 2017

    #97, Narad

    “Undersigned”? I mean, I was willing to write off the whole “super truck” thing as some sort of weird idiom that I had never encountered, but undersigned?

    Well, undersigned is apparently an English word. Although I haven’t heard it either.

  85. #100 Narad
    June 6, 2017

    No, I’m familiar with the word, but it’s a truly bizarre affectation when there’s nothing underneath.

  86. #101 Panacea
    June 6, 2017

    I’ve heard of undersigned. It’s a very old fashioned word, long out of American idiom (can’t speak to British), and has very limited use. It means “we people who signed this document below.”

    It’s usually used within a letter or petition to refer to a group of people advocating a point of view. “The undersigned support the policy of . . . ”

    Jan’s use of the word is technically correct if grammatically awkward since he failed to actually sign his post at the end of it.

  87. #102 herr doktor bimler
    June 6, 2017

    I think of myself as “The undesigned”.

  88. #103 Narad
    June 6, 2017

    It’s a very old fashioned word, long out of American idiom

    It’s quite common in legal contexts. Nonetheless, it can’t be “technically correct” when there is no undersigned.

  89. #104 Panacea
    June 6, 2017

    It’s more like oversigned, since Jan’s name appears above and not below. It’s hairsplitting.

    Jan’s English isn’t the best in the world. It’s his crackpot ideas that really need to be deconstructed, not his mastery of our language.

  90. #105 Narad
    June 6, 2017

    It’s hairsplitting.

    Yes, at this point it is. Nonetheless, I get the sense that “the infra structure adviser of 6 governments” was (mis-) using the word because of its seemingly potent associations. A screwball part of the costume, as it were.

  91. #106 Troels
    June 6, 2017

    #105, Narad

    Nonetheless, I get the sense that “the infra structure adviser of 6 governments” was (mis-) using the word because of its seemingly potent associations. A screwball part of the costume, as it were.

    There’s another posibility. Maybe he is using the phrasing because it is more common in his native language.

    While I haven’t heard the english word “undesigned” I am familiar with the Danish word “undertegnede”, which means literally the same.
    And while it is still a very formal word, it do pop-up in news article every now and then. And sometimes (rarely) even in speech.

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