Now on ScienceBlogs: Antibiotic Resistance and the House and Senate Healthcare Bills

Seed Media Group

Collective Imagination

Search

Profile

Side Bar Feet.jpg

The Egyptian goddess Isis was celebrated as the ideal wife and mother. The blogger known as Dr. Isis has some fancy-sounding degrees and is a physiologist at a major research university working on some terribly impressive stuff. She blogs about balancing her research career with the demands of raising small children, how to succeed as a woman in academia, and anything else she finds interesting. Also, she blogs about shoes. In fact, she blogs a lot about shoes.


...And behold, he raised the motherfucking Jameson on high as Isis bedecked her feet in glory, and the masses were sated. -- The Holy Gospel According to PhysioProf

Sb/DonorsChoose Drive

Widget doesn't work?
Here's my giving page.
Thanks!

Blogroll


My blogroll has gotten too big for the regular sidebar! So, check out all of the delightful blogs that Dr. Isis reads regularly by clicking here. If you'd like to be added to the blogroll, shoot an email to isisthescientist at gmail dot com.

Recent Posts

Recent Comments

Archives

Other Information

« Dr. Isis's RSS Feed.. | Main | On the Need for Women to Defend Women in Science... »

Where Dr. Isis Tells the Students to Sack Up....

Posted on: November 8, 2008 10:58 PM, by Isis the Scientist

Those of you who have been with me from the beginning are already familiar with the subtle writing style of the domestic and laboratory goddess.  For those of you who are new to this humble little blog, there are a few things we should clarify.  First, Dr. Isis is totally amazing and also very hot.  Second, Dr. Isis is always going to tell you what you need to hear.  But it's not necessarily going to be what you want to hear -- keep that in mind as you continue to read, little muffins.

gallery_Renaissance_Festivals_Tennessee_Renaissance_Festival_2005_Queen_Elizabeth_tnrf-2005-QElizabeth-020.jpg
Figure 1: An artist's rendition of the domestic and laboratory goddess laying it down for her worshipers readers.

The domestic and laboratory deity has been thrilled to read some of your recent comments on her post describing the differences in writing between the sciences and liberal arts, and the degree to which that writing allows for a connection between the educator and student.   Dr. Isis knows that many of her readers are undergraduate and graduate students and is touched (and not in a dirty way) that so many of you chose to share personal stories.  New blog commenter JLK wrote:

I think it's very difficult for professors to remember how important they are to us "little" guys. Your careers involve so much more than undergrad teaching, and heaven knows if you're seeking tenure, your undergrad students are essentially irrelevant. I have no doubt that Dr. Isis is an exceptional mentor, and if I wasn't so dedicated to the social sciences I would switch to physiology and try to figure out where she is so I could work with her.

JLK has already learned the lesson that  unabashed worship will get you everywhere with Dr. Isis.  The rest of you should take note.

Still, a few of you left comments that made Dr. Isis realize that some of  her undergraduate (and maybe graduate?) student readers may need a little talking to.  After all, Dr. Isis is here not only to help you become a domestic goddess, but a laboratory goddess as well.   So, cuddle up to Mama, little chickens, because Dr. Isis is about to teach you something that's gonna get you far someday...


You can't be told "yes"  if you never bother to ask (after having done adequate preparation)


This is not going to be a post about the quality of mentoring.  Dr. Isis does not deny that there are probably some less-than-competent PI mentors out there.  But, Dr. Isis has some very specific ideas about the role of the PI in the lab and she will share those for another day and another time.  Rather, this post was inspired by the following comments:

At the end of the day, I think it's all about availability. Community college professors make themselves available outside of class, through email, over the phone. MRU professors state their office hours and don't want to hear from you outside of that. I have been directed to speak to graduate students to discuss the grad admissions process. It's incredibly frustrating.

 and

I'm an undergrad at a very large university and after almost 3 years the only prof I've talked to outside of class has been one that is an advisor for a student organization I'm involved with.

and

As a student, what is the likelihood that I am going to walk in to a professor's office hours or make an appointment with them, doing so for no other reason than, "I just want you to get to know me better?" It would take a special and rare kind of confidence for an undergrad to do that, and even then it would more than likely be construed as arrogance. Sure, I could pretend I'm having problems in the course, but then I might appear needy. I have tried the approach of asking questions that probe much deeper than the class lecture went, but then I find myself on the receiving end of another lecture instead of a discussion.

Marching%20Orders.jpg

 

 Figure 2: There's an awful lot of text in this post, so here's some adorable shoes to break it up.  Marching Orders by Naughty Monkey.  $79.00 at like.com.

 Dr. Isis is saddened that some undergraduate readers have the idea that there are not opportunities to interact with more senior scientists at the university level.  Still, this is not a sentiment she is hearing for the first time here.  She has also heard it from students she has taught.  The God's honest truth of it is that there are often an array of opportunities to interact with faculty, if you are willing to take the initiative.  Before you hit the comment button, little lambs, I want you to read the end of that sentence again -- if you are willing to take the initiative.  I think that the demands of academic life make it difficult to reach out to every undergraduate student one comes in contact with and there is no way to look at a non-descript student sitting quietly in a class and know that they are "the one" you should offer a research opportunity or mentoring to.  But most people find themselves in academia because they enjoy science, they enjoy talking about science, and they enjoy sharing their ideas collaboratively with others.  The limiting factor is always time and, thus, the onus is upon you to convince a more senior scientist to take the time to mentor you.  Is this right?  It doesn't matter.  It simply is the way it is.

 And, the reality of the situation is, if you're not willing to engage scientists more senior than you and ask for mentorship, it will severe limit your career advancement.  Dr. Isis is only Dr. Isis because she interacted with individuals who saw promise in here and were willing to teach her.  These personal interactions are important. 

 So, how do you become total bff with your favorite prof?

  1. You show up to office hours so much the professor starts reserving a chair for you. Scicurious over at Neurotopia offers a well-written first hand account of the benefit of this. When Dr. Isis taught last Spring she had her office hours at 6:30 am on Friday mornings.  Dr. Isis is a morning person and likes to get her day started promptly.  Every Friday morning, when Dr. Isis arrived with her coffee in hand, she found one student sitting outside of her office door, waiting.  This student asked thoughtful questions and, over the semester, I grew to know him quite well.  When he mentioned at the end of the semester that he was interested in trying his hand at research, I called my colleague in the department (a highly accomplished scientist in her field) and asked her to take him into her lab.  I have no doubt that she accepted him, in part, as a favor to me and he is now thriving in her lab.  I am quite proud of him.
  2. If you approach a professor for a research opportunity, write a well-planned, polite, and professional letter asking for the opportunity to meet and discuss your interest.  Drugmonkey has a great post here on the difference between the way he responds to a form letter and a personalized letter.   An email is acceptable, but you should never forget that an email is still a mode of formal communication when you are writing to someone you don't know.  I have an older post on using email to communicate with those more senior  here.
  3. When you score yourself a meeting with Professor Hot Shot, there is no substitute for good preparation and sincere enthusiasm for their work.  Whenever Dr. Isis meets with someone more senior than her, she reads their last five publications first.  She has a discussion about this here.  It doesn't matter if you completely understand the work (although you should try to understand as much as you can).   Your effort is going to score you a huge amount of cred.
  4. Finally, after you meet with Professor Huge Name, always send a formal, hand-written thank you note.  You can read more about Dr. Isis's belief in the power of the "thank you" here.

When I began this post I thought I would address the concern about being "pawned off" on a grad student, but I think I am going to save that for another day when I discuss my thoughts on lab structure. It's late, I'm tired, and Baby Isis will probaby be up soon demanding nourishment. It's my blog, so I can totally pull that crap.

So there it is, darling readers.  Everything you need to know to contact your favorite professor and become their new protegee  When you win your Nobels, I expect you to remember to thank Dr. Isis.

Share this: Stumbleupon Reddit Email + More

TrackBacks

TrackBack URL for this entry: http://scienceblogs.com/mt/pings/85386

Comments

1

In addition to your pointers here, I find it to be useful to go to the professor's office hours during the first part of the semester. One professor told me that only 5% of students ever take advantage of office hours so it's a great way to become known.

Posted by: Academic | November 9, 2008 1:42 AM

2

Absolutely yes, Academic! Often I was one of maybe 5 people at a prof's office hours, and they taught at least 2-300 people per day. Though I have to say, Dr. Isis, 6:30am?!?! Truly, for most college students, 'tis too much, esp if you want to see them showered.

Posted by: scicurious | November 9, 2008 10:14 AM

3

Dr. Isis, yet again, is right.

Much of what I've accomplished in life is because of the chutzpah factor -- I learned to have no hesitation in asking world class scientists and writers if they could spare a minute to tell me the most interesting thing that they were working on. Sometimes that minute grew to an ongoing dialogue.

This worked between me and Nobel laureates such as Richard Feynman and Brian Josephson in Physics, Linus Pauling in Chemistry (and Peace), and John Forbes Nash, Jr. (Economics). Dr. Isis should be pleased that Alice, a.k.a. Mrs. John Forbes Nash, Jr., was pleased with the film "A Beautiful Mind." That's because the sexy Jennifer Connelly won her Best Supporting Actress Oscar for her poignant portrayal of Alice Nash, the wife of math prodigy, John Forbes Nash Jr.

It worked with people who became by coauthors and coeditors, including the late Dr. Isaac Asimov, the late Sir Arthur C. Clarke, and the very alive Ray Bradbury.

Heed well the insight of Dr. Isis! Try to take all opportunities to interact with senior scientists at the university level. And at colloquia, seminars, and conferences.

How can we be successful? We need not reinvent the wheel. We can learn by asking for wisdom from those who have already achieved success.

And then we can go out into the cosmos and do it their way, but in our style, building from our own strengths, overcoming our own weaknesses, and congruent with our own tastes.

Posted by: Jonathan Vos Post | November 9, 2008 11:38 AM

4

Office hours are a wonderful thing. For those with the bravery to risk them.

It should be borne in mind, however, that this is a risk for the student since there are faculty (and they don't always warn students) who operate on the policy of one of my old professors:
"The University requires me to keep posted office hours. On the other hand, the University also allows me complete freedom in grading you and the one certain way to fail this class is to set foot in my office."

Posted by: D. C. Sessions | November 9, 2008 11:41 AM

5

In a research-driven university, faculty have huge incentives to devote as much time and effort as possible to their research, and as little time and effort as possible to classroom teaching. If undergraduate students want real mentoring from faculty, they need to exploit this incentive structure. This means that if undergraduate students want real mentoring, then they need to engage with faculty in the context of faculty research.

As a practical matter, the best way to do this is to work in a faculty laboratory as an undergraduate researcher.

Posted by: Comrade PhysioProf | November 9, 2008 12:44 PM

6

You know D.C., some people are just jackasses. This is not unique to academia-- it is unique to the human condition. Dr. Isis learned there are also jackasses in industrial science. But, the point is, you will never have the opportunity to succeed if you don't ask for it.

Posted by: Dr. Isis | November 9, 2008 1:08 PM

7

Thanks Dr. Isis for bringing up an important topic...I started drafting a response to your earlier post "On how we relate to our students..." in hopes to add a grad student's perspective to the issue and it has since taken on a life of it's own. It grew too big to be a comment and is now it's own post over at my place. Would love to know your thoughts.

Posted by: ambivalent academic | November 9, 2008 1:13 PM

8

I like this topic, being that I'm a Dr. Isis follower (worshiper? ...urchin?) and an undergraduate student. At my college, I have somehow inadvertently stumbled into being bff's with several professors. I'm pretty sure the professors started it too.

Hmmm.... I think I may have to write a response post on my blog, because my original comment was wayyyy to long.

But in brief, freshmen year I was flying back to campus after winter break and my calculus professor from the fall semester was on the same flight... she ended up offering me a ride back to campus. (Since then we've become "bffs", she lives around the corner from me and walks by my apartment on the way to campus and some times we end up chatting on the way down... she lives close enough I pick up her wifi....)

But I found that by becoming friendly with her, I've since made some really great friendships with other professors in the math department and other departments.

It makes the college experience so much better.... there are some days when I'm feeling down and I pass a professor who knows who I am, what I'm about and cares that I exist, it's a good feeling. (which also includes perks like great letters of recommendation)

One more thing- because of the positive experience I have had with the professors at my college I put graduate school on my radar. Actually, I would never have started research if it were not for my interaction with my calculus professor- I remember vividly her suggesting that research would be a very good fit for me... at the time I was quite confused (granted I was a freshmen, and my main thought was "WHAT? Research?! How the heck am I going to do THAT?)... but it's worked out well so far...

Posted by: Eugenie | November 9, 2008 1:28 PM

9

I had a feeling that some of what I wrote was going to come across as complaining. I suppose that in a lot of ways, that's what I was doing. What I was hoping to express was that some of us who have taken the initiative, done everything the "right" way, still can't seem to connect with those we admire on the level that we're looking for.

It's not about letters of recommendation, but I wanted to use that as an example. My situation is different from that of most students, but I am not going to get into all the details of why it's different, because that would defeat the purpose of the posting. And it would definitely come across as "But I did this, and this, and this, and that, and I still got nothing." That's complaining, and I know it.

To the professors on here, I would just say that there are probably students who deeply admire you and the work you do, but who might be intimidated by you at the same time.

To the grad students who have undergrads doing work for them, we are there to learn from you and gain experience in research so that we can do what you're doing. If you have the ability to bring us into the circle, introducing us to professors and helping us to make those connections, please do it. We may be collaborating with you in some awesome research later on in our careers, so if you believe in us and our abilities, remember that we are where you were just years prior.

And to Dr. Isis, you have provided so much helpful information for students who are reading your blog, between the post on the "right" and "wrong" ways to email professors, lab etiquette, and this posting today on how to connect with professors. I, for one, deeply appreciate what you are accomplishing with your blog. I am very curious to read what you have to say about the grad student versus professor issue.

Posted by: JLK | November 9, 2008 2:15 PM

10

I'd also like to add that "just becaues you ask, doesn't mean you'll get a yes".
Asking is a start, but don't expect a positive outcome just because you did. Just because you take a chance doesn't mean that you will be rewarded for it.
But if you do, then at least you know that you tried.

Posted by: Lou | November 9, 2008 2:29 PM

11

Amen, Brother Lou!

Posted by: Dr. Isis | November 9, 2008 2:30 PM

12

Great post. I was going to write something similar (sans shoes), but now there's no need.

Posted by: Odyssey | November 9, 2008 3:39 PM

13

You're totes right about most things in your past responses. I should have gone to a small liberal arts college. The impersonal treatment I experienced in college and the cut throat competition in the Engineering school was not conducive to my learning process, and perhaps even undid some of the learning I did previously by destroying my love of doing maths and fizzicks. But in learning that, I learned about life and found other ways to enjoy science, which is the most important. But, you're also right that having the "chutzpah" or whatev is an important factor, which I have in copious quantities. My favorite class was a Philosophy of Science class that was taught by this adorable visiting professor from Barcelona. He gave off super shy vibes that thwarted discussion in class, but I barged into his office hours every week and asked him the questions about the course material that I was too intimidated to ask in class (it was full of vicious grad students). I also engaged him in my experiences as a science journalist, printing him out articles from Seed and Wired and such and giving him some new things to ponder. He incorporated my questions into his lessons, which was way rewarding. Then on the last day of class, we got drunk at Zanzibar with his grad students and talked about the LHC!

I still think that MRUs should change their format to enhance the learning experience of undergrad types like who crave a personal touch like I did and stop passing off undergrads to bitter GSIs. Professors may experience research suicide or whatever if they try to make every student learn, but college is pretty much torture for undergrads @ big name schools who must self-teach and make do with the leftover energy from overworked and underpaid professors. Easier said than done, perhaps, but someone should at least try.

Posted by: Arikia | November 9, 2008 4:40 PM

14

You know D.C., some people are just jackasses. This is not unique to academia-- it is unique to the human condition.
Exactly! Everyone knows donkeys are actually very sweet.

Posted by: Becca | November 10, 2008 12:07 PM

15

Then again given recent discussions about circadian physiology thanks to yourself and Bora one might also interpret 6.30am office hours as a big "fuck off" if one were an undergraduate.

Given the average undergraduate bed and wake times it's like having meetings at 3am for a mature adult.

Posted by: NM | November 12, 2008 5:35 AM

16

Oh yes. Even in the USA, where the students live on campus rather than having to sit in the subway for 3/4 h or longer before getting to the university, I'd interpret that as "please, please, please never set foot in my office -- I don't actually want to explain what you'll have your test on -- I'm incapable of teaching, you see, and should have gone to the CNRS rather than a university".

Posted by: David Marjanović | November 16, 2008 2:23 PM

17
Finally, after you meet with Professor Huge Name, always send a formal, hand-written thank you note.

And... you're really sure Prof. H. Name will either not feel sucked up to, or will actually like being sucked up to? Because... I'd feel very uneasy getting a card that said "thank you for talking to me last conference". That's what I go to conferences for -- to talk about things I find interesting --, and I actually expect that to happen. What's your experience in that matter?

Posted by: David Marjanović | November 16, 2008 3:09 PM

18
I'd interpret that as

Actually, more charitable interpretations are easily possible, but unfortunately they don't put the question of CNRS vs university to rest. Such as "I'm a morning person, and I simply can't imagine anyone else is not" or "come on, it's not that early -- I've never stopped to think that some people might stay in the lab till half past 9 PM" or suchlike. In other words, what NM says.

Posted by: David Marjanović | November 16, 2008 3:16 PM

Post a Comment

(Email is required for authentication purposes only. On some blogs, comments are moderated for spam, so your comment may not appear immediately.)





ScienceBlogs

Search ScienceBlogs:

Go to:

Advertisement
Enter to win a free copy of The Monty Hall Problem
Visit the Collective Imagination blog
Advertisement
Collective Imagination

© 2006-2009 Seed Media Group LLC. ScienceBlogs is a registered trademark of Seed Media Group. All rights reserved.

Sites by Seed Media Group: Seed Media Group | ScienceBlogs | SEEDMAGAZINE.COM